From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Linda Paulson ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_ (Review) Date: 28 Feb 2001 15:14:55 -0700 Annette Lyon wrote: > My problem with the miracle scene is rather personal. As a writer, I feel > very hesitant to put words into God's mouth or "make" him do anything. To do > so feels rather pompous--a creator (artist) telling the Creator what to do. You're not telling the Creator what to do. You are writing a piece of fiction. The Creator is under no obligation to listen to you. I'm sure he realizes that the healing scene is exactly that, a scene meant to inspire and nothing more. > How can any of us really _know_ what Christ would say or do? While I have no > problem with authors inventing dialogue for historical figures (like Joseph > Smith, where we can find significant documentation to wager a decent guess), > I cannot use the same standard for diety. A fiction writer, imo, can put any words in the mouth of any being, divine or otherwise, if it suits the dramatic purpose. > In other LDS books (not in Linda's), I have cringed at certain answers to > prayers the characters have, because I feel that God would _never_ have > answered that way. Yet above you wonde who anyone would ever know what the Lord would say. If that's the case, then why can't one writer's opinion of a divine response be as valid as anyone else's. > One book in particular by a very popular writer had a > such an answer. I felt it flew in the face of everything the Church teaches, > yet it was portrayed as coming straight from above. Perhaps that's one > reason I enjoy Fantasy so much--it's easier to put words into a god-like > character's mouth, and be a step removed from the "real" thing. But you ARE a step removed from the real thing by the mere fact of writing a story. All stories, even realisic ones, are basically of the fantasy genre, anyway, because they didn't really happen. > (I'm > recalling something Scott Parkin said on the fantasy panel at the Mormon > Writer's Conference, which I totally agreed with.) > > For me, the miracle scene would have been more comfortable had the healer > been an angel--anyone, from Moroni to Michael to one we've never heard > of--rather than Christ himself. That would have created a distance. Maybe > I'm a bit odd here, but that's why I I think that's why I disliked the scene > so much. I disliked the scene but for an entirely different reason. I found it gratuitous. Thom - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Linda Paulson ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_ (Review) Date: 28 Feb 2001 17:28:37 -0600 Thank you, Annette, D. Michael, and Katie, for your commentary on Jackie. All very useful stuff, that probably could've been caught and cleaned up if I'd had Worldsmiths to take it to last summer. :-) In my mind she's more 3-D than she came out in print. In fact, I never saw her as "plain evil," myself, as much as not right for Peter, sad, misguided and in need of salvation. It's helpful to have your response, because I see that what I hoped to communicate didn't come through at all. An interesting piece of trivia here--would you like to know why Jackie makes a video? Each of the chapter headings has a definite recorded "source," if you look through it. They're from journals, books, notes, tape recordings, etc. A few of them, such as the heading where Jackie invites herself in to the guy's apartment (also the water pipeline one, and a conversation or two with Victor/Gerome), didn't have any source. The publisher asked that, for the sake of consistency, I come up with one. So that conversation got recorded on "video." I like the consistency factor; but I didn't like how it made the whole scene just... worse. Oh well. I appreciate Annette's response to this, too: At 07:51 PM 2/27/01, you wrote: >How can any of us really _know_ what Christ would say or do? That's true; we can't. Yours is a perfectly valid opinion and I won't argue with that. We've had similar discussions on the List before regarding the "Cowboy Jesus" in _The Backslider_ (which I've yet to read). All I can say is I tried very hard to make sure everything he said and did was at least "in character," meaning, it's not things I felt he would not or could not do given the circumstances. I find "mileage varies" depending on each reader's personal frame of reference and personal experiences. This portrayal is how I see him, reaching out to the one lost sheep. ... Still, it was much harder than writing the characterization of Satan (as the Caretaker), I can tell you that! BTW, nobody had a problem with Satan making personal appearances in the book...? Just the Savior? I find that odd. I felt strange enough not giving the two equally-weighted scenes, at least. Haven't heard any complaints about that yet. Anyway, thank you all for the discussion, I'm learning from this and it's good. Linda Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Allred Subject: [AML] ALLRED Story Reading Date: 28 Feb 2001 16:36:39 -0700 Just back from sunny Saudia Arabia, I will be reading a new sf short story of mine at the BYU sf symposium, March 1st (Thurs) at 4 pm, ELWC 3252. The story is titled "Hymnal" and, in light of a recent list thread, is not only an apocolyptic Mormon story, but a 8 trillion years from now heat-death of the universe Mormon story. The story assesses the impact of Tennyson, the Book of Job, and the 1950 ed. LDS hymnal on the end of existance. Lee Lee Allred leea@sff.net www.leeallred.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: katie@aros.net Subject: Re: [AML] Linda Paulson ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_ (Review) Date: 28 Feb 2001 17:26:27 -0700 (MST) Quoting "D. Michael Martindale" : > Have sleeping around be a real weakness > for > her that she's done for a long time and is trying to overcome and > feels > horrible about not succeeding yet. That would make her more > sympathetic, > rather than her current belligerent attitude toward chastity. She > could > feign a belligerent attitude for her friends so she doesn't feel like > a > prude in front of them, as long as you make it real clear it's a front > and not her true feelings. This could strengthen the poignancy of her > hope that marrying Peter will help her overcome her promiscuousness, > since the reader won't believe it will succeed--especially with the > deception she surrounds it with. > > I think a person like her would obey the Word of Wisdom. She's already > got a nasty weakness of the flesh, so she compensates by strictly > obeying a commandment in another area of the flesh. > > Then make her very pleasant with Peter, so we are torn between liking > how well they go together and how her secret life makes us want Peter > to > run as far from her as he can. > I like this idea--it takes us from the realm of "she's bad, so she does bad things" to a real human with real weaknesses. My first reaction would have been to continue to keep the reader from sympathizing with Jackie, but I like this idea, or something like it. Why not let the reader sympathize with her and her struggles (just a little), as long as it becomes clear to the reader that this is a situation that Peter needs to get out of? But that was another thing that I felt was missing from Jackie's character--I don't remember her having any real reason for wanting to marry Peter. She's so demanding and so bent on getting her way, it seems that there should be something major she's going to get out of being married. But except for the ring, I don't remember anything. And at the same time, after she's married, she's going to have a much harder time living the lifestyle that she's used to. You'd think this would bother her. Apparently she's about as smart as Peter is when it comes to these things-- :) I did like that last chapter, though, where her antics come to light and they break their engagement. I thought that was handled believably, and Jackie even seemed likable in the first part and somewhat repentant in the second part. --Katie Parker - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Morris Subject: Re: [AML] A Mormon Criticism Date: 28 Feb 2001 19:01:16 -0800 (PST) --- Annette Lyon wrote: > Are there any criticisms based on other religions? > From my BYU years I > remember all the different critical theories, but I > don't recall anything > Jewish-based, Buddhist-based, etc. The other only > group I can think of that > has its own criticism is African-American, but > Mormons hardly count for that > type of ethnic group. So is there any precedent for > wanting a Mormon > criticism? I think this is a really interesting question, Annette, and one that needs to be asked. It's caused my little mind to whir a bit and so while I don't have a definitive answer to your question, I do have some thoughts on the issue. Certainly if I think about critical theories that are labeled as such, it doesn't seem like there is a strong precedent for a Mormon criticism. But if I think about criticism that is done on particular authors, it becomes clear to me that some of the most successful criticism is not that which takes a particular set of heuristic tools and applies them to any random text, but rather one that is demanded by both the author and the critic. For example, I think some of the most intersting criticism on Franz Kafka (now there's a writer who's been subjected to every brand of theory possible) looks at his work in the context of the Jewish tradition----of the Kabbalah, Midrash commentary, the folklore of the great Rabbis, etc. Or to bring up an author commonly cited as an example par excellence for Mormon authors---the criticism I have read on Flannery O'Connors works is forced on some level to deal with the Catholic view of grace. This is perhaps why I think Terry Jeffress writes in an earlier post: "I don't think we have a body of quality Mormon literature large enough to justify a unique school of Mormon critical thought." Faith-based (if i can reappropriate a term) criticism happens because it is needed, because an author or many authors create works that demand it. In his reply to Travis, Terry also brings up the notion of canon: "In a sense we already have a standardized Mormon criticism. Since a Mormon critical perspective would basically apply the canon of the church to the text, the canon of the church becomes the urtext by which all other texts must achieve their value. For the church to canonize a work then becomes the ultimate compliment in the Mormon criticism." I wonder if this also complicates the idea of a Mormon criticism (i.e. beyond the absence of a body of works that demand one) because, as far as I know, Mormonism is the one religion that has appeared after the rise of literature and print culture that also has significant, scriptural, canonized texts. I know that other 'new' religions have their own sacred texts (does _Dianetics_ count?), but I know of none that make the claims, have the influence and are quite as canonical as the standard works. Yes, we graft into the Judeo-Christian tradition, and yes, the _Book of Mormon_ is an ancient text, but it's reception (along with the other canonical works) happens at the same time as the rise of the novel. So perhaps our tradition is too enmeshed in the current history of literature while at the same time paradoxically too close to the urtext (in its appearance--not time of writing) for us to expect the same sort of criticism and literary history/trajectory that other traditions have. So perhaps we shouldn't be looking to other religious traditions for models of literary criticism, but rather newer 'ethnic' literary traditions. I'm not sure what those traditions would be. The one I'm familiar with is the Romanian one (yea, I served a mission there), but I haven't come up with any precise analogs---except for an anxiety about how each fits into a larger tradition (the Romanians obsess over the question of whether they are European or not) and at the same time a concern about identifying what parts of their culture are unique, homegrown. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] Putting Words in God's Mouth (was: ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_) Date: 28 Feb 2001 23:43:04 -0700 Annette Lyon wrote: > > My problem with the miracle scene is rather personal. As a writer, I feel > very hesitant to put words into God's mouth or "make" him do anything. To do > so feels rather pompous--a creator (artist) telling the Creator what to do. > How can any of us really _know_ what Christ would say or do? While I have no > problem with authors inventing dialogue for historical figures (like Joseph > Smith, where we can find significant documentation to wager a decent guess), > I cannot use the same standard for diety. I don't have any problem with it. I don't look at it as pompous, arrogant, blasphemous, or anything else bad. It is, after all, fiction, and everyone knows it. I look at it as my best guess what deity might do in that situation. To make an educated guess about such a thing, I need to be educated on what deity is like. For me, using a divine being as a character in my story is a form of testimony--my testimony of what God is like according to my experience and understanding. I would like to think I'm helping people understand God better by having them think what he might do in various situations. --- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Life, the Universe, & Everything XIX Schedule Date: 01 Mar 2001 00:31:00 -0600 At 15:40 28-02-01 -0700, you wrote: >LIFE, THE UNIVERSE, & EVERYTHING XIX > >Friday, March 2, 2001 > > Roddenberry's legacy: Star Trek and Beyond > (A look at the Star Trek series, Earth, Final Conflict, and > Adromeda. Also, what lies ahead for Roddenberry) Baptism by proxy? -- Ronn! :) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 01 Mar 2001 06:01:57 -0700 What happened with the award for children's fiction this year? Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 01 Mar 2001 09:44:46 -0700 I believe that there was also an award for film, given to Richard Dutcher = for God's Army. Eric=20 - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: katie@aros.net Subject: Re: [AML] Linda Paulson ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_ (Review) Date: 01 Mar 2001 10:43:10 -0700 (MST) Quoting Linda Adams : >So that conversation got > recorded on "video." I like the consistency factor; but I didn't like > how > it made the whole scene just... worse. Oh well. FWIW, the video was fine with me. As long as she was doing this other stuff, I thought the video was an interesting twist. The moral: You can't please all the readers all the time. What matters is that you've done it the way you wanted it. > BTW, nobody had a problem with Satan making personal appearances in the > > book...? Just the Savior? I find that odd. I felt strange enough not > giving > the two equally-weighted scenes, at least. Haven't heard any complaints > > about that yet. > > I didn't have a problem with it, but then I didn't have a problem with the Savior's appearance, either. I might have objected, though, if you hadn't made him somewhat of a humorous caricature. It's not always a good idea to do this with characters, of course, but here I really didn't want to go much deeper into the true nature of "The Caretaker." Too creepy and too dangerous. --Katie - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Putting Words in God's Mouth (was: ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_) Date: 01 Mar 2001 10:47:00 -0700 D. Michael Martindale wrote: > I would like to > think I'm helping people understand God better by having them think what > he might do in various situations. How would you feel about dressing deity in clothes you know he would never wear? For instance, the George Burns God is clearly not a Mormon God, but very entertaining nonetheless and very supportive of the concept of a god. We've talked before on the list of the Cowboy Christ in Levi Peterson's fiction -- also not a "Mormon" version of Christ. Thom - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dallas Robbins" Subject: Re: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 01 Mar 2001 17:54:43 -0000 I don't believe that there was award given for children's fiction. Maybe Scott Parkin can inform us more on why certain awards are given one year, but not the next. Dallas Robbins cloudhill@hotmail.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: katie@aros.net Subject: Re: [AML] Linda Paulson ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_ (Review) Date: 01 Mar 2001 11:39:05 -0700 (MST) Quoting Annette Lyon : > My problem with the miracle scene is rather personal. As a writer, I > feel > very hesitant to put words into God's mouth or "make" him do anything. > To do > so feels rather pompous--a creator (artist) telling the Creator what to > do. > How can any of us really _know_ what Christ would say or do? I would be scared to take on that sort of scene myself. But Linda's portrayal didn't have anything that jumped out at me that didn't seem right. > > In other LDS books (not in Linda's), I have cringed at certain answers > to > prayers the characters have, because I feel that God would _never_ > have > answered that way. I'm with you there! It seems that especially in the LDS romance genre, it is all too easy to allow whatever situation the author fancies to be an answer to prayer, or to be okay because God said it was right. I like the emphasis on following the Spirit, and, of course, prayers aren't always answered in a way that we'd expect. But it also makes a darn handy story-manipulating device, and I really wish some of these writers would get away from that. > > For me, the miracle scene would have been more comfortable had the > healer > been an angel--anyone, from Moroni to Michael to one we've never heard > of--rather than Christ himself. That would have created a distance. That would have worked for me as well. My own feelings are, well, why *not* Christ himself? Surely he would have healed her if he'd been around for some reason. I'm trusting that Linda already has a good reason for his appearance. (You don't have to answer that question--I believe I understand your reasons for your opinion.) I'm not advocating throwing Christ in to every little piece of fiction. I don't think he's one to trifle with. I'm just saying that for me, in this setting, where we've already been shown several strong believable stories, and where we know that the Second Coming is nigh and heavenly visitations will probably increase anyway--for me, it worked. If, say, Anita Stansfield threw him in to her next romance to instruct the amorous couple to get married, I would probably feel quite differently about it. So what think ye all of Gerald Lund's new series, based on the life of the Savior? I haven't read it and have no plans to. But I'm guessing that quite a few fictionalized words will be placed in his mouth here. Comments, anyone? --Katie Parker - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: Re: [AML] A Mormon Criticism Date: 01 Mar 2001 12:09:55 -0700 On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 07:01:16PM -0800, William Morris wrote: > So perhaps our > tradition is too enmeshed in the current history of > literature while at the same time paradoxically too > close to the urtext (in its appearance--not time of > writing) for us to expect the same sort of criticism > and literary history/trajectory that other traditions > have. > > So perhaps we shouldn't be looking to other religious > traditions for models of literary criticism, but > rather newer 'ethnic' literary traditions. You bring up an interesting point. All the new literary theories arise as a growth or reaction to their parent theories. (Really, new types of fiction arise from the author's observations of life and reactions to other fiction. Theorist then try to codify the significant trends in fiction and how they arose.) So when we talk about establishing a Mormon criticism, we should look to build on the current schools of literary thought, not creating something from scratch. But this approach runs into some problems. In my opinion, contemporary Mormon literature lags behind secular literature by as much as 20 to 50 years, maybe more in some cases. The issues, themes, and memes present in contemporary Mormon literature often feel right at home with early 20th Century modern or humanist literature. But I haven't read any Mormon literature I would consider postmodern, and I don't expect I will for at least 10 to 15 years. So upon what basis do we build a school of Mormon literary thought? Do we ignore the major literary movements of the past two decades? Many of these movements promote ideas that seem to violate Mormon beliefs. For example, most Mormons would say that men and women have divinely assigned roles in society, while most Feminists and Gay/Lesbian/Queer theorists believe that people do not have any innate gender traits, but that individuals learn their gender from outside influences. And many academics consider Feminism one of the older schools of literary thought. Many newer outgrowths have occurred since the heyday of Feminism -- have you heard of eco-literature? Perhaps the admonition "in the world, not of the world" will keep many of the important literary theory developments out of Mormon literature. We also have to consider that the Catholic and Jewish literature draw on literally thousands of years of history. Mormon literature, although we adopt some of the Catholic and Jewish literature, really only has 170 years to draw from. And when was the last time you read any profound 1st or 2nd Century Catholic literature? (Of course, the literacy rate then would have produce mostly oral literature, so we may never know how our literature compares.) Ok, so can I produce a coherent conclusion from this rambling? William suggested that we might build on the theories of ethnic literature. I suggest that most writers of Mormon literature (myself included) do not have enough personal experience with oppression to make a valid attempt at an ethnic parallel in Mormon literature. As I have said before, I don't think we have a sufficient body of Mormon literature to enable us to catalog the theoretical trends our authors express, and I think our attitude toward (or ignorance of) most modern literary movements does not enable us to draw more than one or two useful parallels between Mormon literature and contemporary "Literature." We will have to sit back and wait. The AML exists to encourage high quality, authentic literature. We see more Mormon literature published each year, and as time passes, we will have some "classics" remain in print and others quickly forgotten. We can't do much more than wait for the author's to produce. But in the mean time, I plan to keep the tools in my shed sharpened by leaning as much as I can from the modern schools of literary thought and to apply that knowledge to Mormon literature as it develops into its own tradition. -- Terry L Jeffress AML Webmaster and AML-List Review Archivist - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gideon Burton Subject: [AML] AML Awards Online Date: 01 Mar 2001 14:37:14 -0700 A complete list of the 2000 AML Awards, with the awards citations, is now online at the Mormon Literature Website. http://humanities.byu.edu/mldb/AML%20Awards/Awards2000.htm Gideon Burton - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 01 Mar 2001 12:42:50 -0700 > I don't believe that there was award given for children's fiction. Maybe > Scott Parkin can inform us more on why certain awards are given one year, > but not the next. But the award for children's fiction wasn't given last year either. That's why I'm asking. If anyone can fill me in on the details, I'd be grateful. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: [AML] Irreantum Out Yet? Date: 01 Mar 2001 16:28:32 -0700 When's the next issue of Irreantum coming out? Thom - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] AML Awards Online Date: 01 Mar 2001 20:25:37 -0700 What about the 2001 awards? Marilyn Brown ----- Original Message ----- > A complete list of the 2000 AML Awards, with the awards citations, is now > online at the Mormon Literature Website. > > http://humanities.byu.edu/mldb/AML%20Awards/Awards2000.htm > > Gideon Burton - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 02 Mar 2001 00:43:30 -0700 Dallas Robbins wrote: >I don't believe that there was award given for children's fiction. >Maybe Scott Parkin can inform us more on why certain awards are >given one year, but not the next. There are two sets of awards that generally alternate from year to year--Criticism and Drama normally alternate with Poetry and Children's/YA literature. This year should have been the year for Poetry and Children's/YA, but I ended up doing things a little differently. First, this was an excellent year for drama and it seemed appropriate to offer the Drama award (and the special award for Film) even though this should have been an off year, so we did. It may make sense to start offering this award every year. Second, though Criticism should have been awarded last year, the winner was ineligible to receive an award as a member of the AML Board, so no award was given. Recognition of Benson Parkinson's efforts in creating this list were deemed notable and exceptional, so I awarded for Criticism this year even though this was not a scheduled year. Third, there was a relatively small sample of poetry, and the judge felt that there was both not enough of a sample to award this year, and the material the judge was aware of was not of sufficiently exceptional to merit an award this year. This is not to say that no award-worthy poetry was published in the last two years, but rather that the judge had not been able to collect an adequate sample to make an informed decision. So we passed for this year, with the understanding that next year a Poetry award will be given, and that we will make an extra effort to seek out as many titles as possible. Fourth, Children's/YA actually suffered the opposite fate of Poetry--there were too many good titles published over the past two years, but we had not been able to collect enough of those titles to make a fair award. Again, I will work extra hard to collect as many of those titles as I can, and we may well give several awards next year to make up for what amounts to my failure to collect enough titles for consideration. This one is my bad, and I will do what I can to make up for it. That's pretty much the story of this year. At least part of it came down to a failure on my part to effectively collect titles; I will do better next year and attempt to make up for my shortcoming. The lack of awards in Poetry and Children's/YA has less to do with a lack of quality material as it does with the judge's access to that material. In both cases, I believe there was material published that warranted an award, but that the judge was not able to consider in a timely manner. Next year the plan would be to offer awards in Novel, Short Story, Essay, Devotional, Poetry, Children's/YA, and possibly Drama (if warranted). Scott Parkin - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] ALLRED Story Reading Date: 01 Mar 2001 20:51:18 -0700 Hi, Lee! It's good to see you back. We missed you at the conference. Now I'm asking you to get something ready for March 2, 2002. The theme is, "Walking the Cultural Tightrope: Mormon Writers and Their Audiences." We'd love to hear from you. It can really be on anything. Maybe about Saudi Arabia. What were you doing there? Cheers! Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] A Mormon Criticism Date: 01 Mar 2001 21:50:33 -0700 Terry, please fly out and give us a paper for Mar. 2, 2002? This is interesting stuff! Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] PARKIN Story Reading Date: 01 Mar 2001 23:59:42 -0700 Following in Lee's illustrious footsteps, I will also be doing a reading at the BYU science fiction and fantasy symposium. My reading will be Friday, March 2 at 4:00 in room 2380 of the ELWC (the Wilkinson Center Little Theater). I will be reading "Within Limits," a science fictional meta-romance set on scenic I-15 in both Utah and Salt Lake counties, and featuring space aliens, imminent danger, the Utah Highway Patrol, and true love. It's a humorous piece that I hope will entertain. Scott Parkin - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Linda Paulson ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_ (Review) Date: 02 Mar 2001 01:09:18 -0700 Linda Adams wrote: > A few of them, such as the heading where Jackie invites herself in to the > guy's apartment (also the water pipeline one, and a conversation or two > with Victor/Gerome), didn't have any source. The publisher asked that, for > the sake of consistency, I come up with one. So that conversation got > recorded on "video." The publisher was right--that consistency was desirable. But perhaps a little more brainstorming could have come up with something better than a video. Maybe a letter she wrote to a friend or something? > BTW, nobody had a problem with Satan making personal appearances in the > book...? Just the Savior? I find that odd. I felt strange enough not giving > the two equally-weighted scenes, at least. Haven't heard any complaints > about that yet. Probably because nobody cares about Satan. You can misrepresent him, malign him, ridicule him, blaspheme him--who cares? As C.S. Lewis says in the second book of his Perelandra trilogy, Satan is the only valid object for our hate. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Putting Words in God's Mouth Date: 02 Mar 2001 01:44:45 -0700 Thom Duncan wrote: > How would you feel about dressing deity in clothes you know he would > never wear? For instance, the George Burns God is clearly not a Mormon > God, but very entertaining nonetheless and very supportive of the > concept of a god. We've talked before on the list of the Cowboy Christ > in Levi Peterson's fiction -- also not a "Mormon" version of Christ. WHen Jesus came in mortality, he wore the clothing of the period. We generally think of him as wearing that kind of stuff for all eternity. But if he had come today, he _would_ wear today's clothes. And a couple of millennia from now, people might think of T-shirts and jeans as the clothing of divine beings. Either that or a Mr. Mac suit. I've toyed with the idea of writing a novel of the life of Christ--except that I would tell it as if he had come in modern times. I'm sure a lot of Mormons and other Christians would consider many of my interpretations on how that turns out blasphemous. After all, he wouldn't likely camp out with his disciples each night as he travels around preaching the Gospel. Would he choose Motel 6 and sleep four people to a room to save on the group's funds because Judas Iscariot keeps dipping into them? And think of the scandal when he goes over to Meghan Holbrook's house for dinner (Utah Democratic party chairperson). When Matthew is called to be an apostle, he'll have to quit his day job at the IRS. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: Re: [AML] Irreantum Out Yet? Date: 02 Mar 2001 09:23:16 -0700 It goes to press today, should be mailed within two weeks and arrive by = the last week of March or so. Sorry we're late this time, but this is our = first issue without Benson Parkinson and it's a big, 128-page issue. Chris Bigelow -------- For a sample copy of IRREANTUM, a Mormon literary quarterly, send $4 to = the Association for Mormon Letters, 262 S. Main St., Springville, UT = 84663. >>> Thom Duncan 03/01 4:28 PM >>> When's the next issue of Irreantum coming out? Thom - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] Mod. Message: Missing Posts Date: 02 Mar 2001 10:56:40 -0600 Folks, There are some indications that posts may have been sent during the last few days that have never arrived in my in-box. I have just gone through everything I have received and sent it out (with the exception of two short posts from Marilyn Brown on the AML Awards thread that duplicated what Scott Parkin said more fully). So, if you haven't seen something you sent to me appear on the List (and I haven't sent you a message explaining why it hasn't appeared), *please send it again*. Generally speaking, if I decide a post won't go out over the List, I send a message to the author explaining why (and usually suggesting possible revisions). If you don't hear from me, and you don't see your post appear, it's always a good idea to ask. I certainly don't want you to feel that your words aren't wanted, when what's really happened is that they've been lost in the electronic ether... Jonathan Langford AML-List Moderator - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Morris Subject: Re: [AML] A Mormon Criticism Date: 02 Mar 2001 09:05:44 -0800 (PST) --- Terry L Jeffress wrote: >Many newer outgrowths > have occurred since > the heyday of Feminism -- have you heard of > eco-literature? This may have been a rhetorical question, but I'll answer it anyway. Yes, I am familiar with eco-literature. I wrote my senior thesis on red rock representations of AZ and UT (esp. the Grand Canyon) in nature writing and poetry, and in the process became familiar with eco-lit and eco-criticism. It's a young but interesting field, although much of it, in my opinion, stretches the influence of literary metaphor on (male) action towards the land (esp. actions of environmental destruction) a bit too far (i.e. needs to take some of the materialist reasons for such actions more seriously). Annette Kolodny's _Lay of the Land_ is, I believe, the seminal text for the field. It's a worthwhile read. Although my favorite text is: _The environmental imagination : Thoreau, nature writing, and the formation of American culture_ by Lawrence Buell. An especially interesting part of the book deals with why nature writing (except for _Walden_) never became part of the canon (well until the last two decades) even though there is a strong tradition of fine nature writing in America, a tradition that flourished in the latter half of the 19th century when nature writing (and travel writing) was more popular than fiction. The only example I know of Mormon eco-criticism is one of the essays in _Tending the Garden_: "From Walden Pond to the Great Salt Lake: Ecobiography and Engendered Species Acts in Walden and Refuge" by Cecilia Konchar Farr and Phillip A. Snyder. I was disappointed by it when I read it---and it's not because of the feminist/post-modern stance of the essay, but rather that it comes across as a flat almost obligatory (if that adj. makes any sense) piece of scholarship. I'm not sure I can detail its particular atonality, so I'll just say that I prefer a little more personality in my lit. crit. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gideon Burton Subject: [AML] RE: AML Awards Online Date: 02 Mar 2001 10:37:39 -0700 The 2001 awards will be presented in 2002. The most current awards are the ones I put up. We always look back at the past year. Gideon - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gideon Burton Subject: RE: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 02 Mar 2001 10:47:40 -0700 The award in children's literature has only been given five times, and not regularly (1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, and 1998). While the AML Board has been trying to regularize the frequency of awards, it is frankly a practical matter of how well we can find out about what's being published and whether we can secure a judge adequate for the task. As Scott Parkin mentioned, we try to juggle things a bit to be fair to authors and publishers when the collecting and judging of awards has proven inadequate. In the case of YA and Children's, we will be looking at what was published in both 2000 and 2001 for the award we'll give out next March. AML-List members would greatly help the process by mentioning and nominating books from all genres. I know that Sharlee Glenn's and Rachel Hoffman-Bayles' children's book, One in a Billion, should be mentioned, as well as other YA/Children's titles that don't get as much attention on this list as they should. Gideon Burton - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: Re: [AML] A Mormon Criticism Date: 02 Mar 2001 12:41:02 -0700 On Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:50:33PM -0700, Brown wrote: > Terry, please fly out and give us a paper for Mar. 2, 2002? This is > interesting stuff! Marilyn Brown Thank you for the invitation. I will certainly consider writing a paper for next year's conference. I'm not sure about how to charter a flight from South Jordan to Salt Lake City, but I'll look into it. -- Terry L Jeffress AML Webmaster and AML-List Review Archivist - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gideon Burton Subject: RE: [AML] A Mormon Criticism Date: 02 Mar 2001 11:10:21 -0700 Some excellent musings on Mormon criticism by Terry Jeffress. I hope= you do take up Marilyn's challenge to present something about this at next A= ML. While it is true that LDS criticism lags behind contemporary literary= theory (and on this topic I will append some of the discussion of this by my= self and Neal Kramer from our introduction to the Fall 1999 Dialogue issue= )--it is also true (contrary to what Terry said) that we have had postmoder= n writers and critics. Read, for example, the stories by Darrell Spenc= er or John Bennion collected in Bright Angels and Familiars to see how thes= e authors have adopted and adapted postmodern storytelling to LDS theme= s and characters. And in that same AML Dialogue issue, Robert Bird does a postmodern reading of Margaret Young's Salvador and Orson Scott Card'= s Lost Boys. I think we could do many more kinds of readings using contempo= rary literary theory, but this is a start. Frankly, I think there is a strong case to be made for lagging behind contemporary literary theoretical trends. Richard Cracroft is our be= st conservative and argued strongly for resisting the sophism of contemp= orary literary training (read it online, especially paragraph 4, at http://humanities.byu.edu/mldb/attune.htm). But I'm thinking more in= terms of the way that contemporary literary theory inevitably critiques its= elf, and we often do better to wait for the second wave of a critical appr= oach, the one that is more qualified and tested. That said, I think we hav= e waited too long to dive into a lot of critical theory, as both Eugene England and Michael Austin have noted (See Gene's Progress and Prospe= cts article online at http://humanities.byu.edu/mldb/PROGRESS.HTM and Mic= hael's at http://humanities.byu.edu/mldb/austin01.htm) The comments by myself and Neal Kramer follow. Gideon Burton =93...the object of our study has been evolving, as have our means of= literary analysis. Discussions of Mormon literature from earlier decades seem = to have been controlled by a basic assumption, derived from standards establi= shed by the =93New Critics=94 of the 1940s and 50s, that the quality of liter= ature could be determined based on formal aesthetic qualities as established in conventional literary genres. Thus, critics of LDS literature have a= sked, =93Is there any literature published by Mormons or for Mormons that m= eets high aesthetic standards?=94 =09This remains an important question, especially since everyone reco= gnizes great differences in the aesthetic quality of literary works by or ab= out Mormons. But it has become more difficult to answer this question, bo= th because the traditional genres have been complemented with new ones, = and because literary markets and standards continue to evolve. =09In the 1940s and 50s, for example, writers of LDS fiction proved t= heir aesthetic mettle by writing to a national audience, crafting their Mo= rmon subject matter according to the high literary standards demanded by n= ational publishers. For many such authors (sometimes known as Mormon Literat= ure=92s =93Lost Generation=94), the result was the achievement of national cr= itical acclaim but rejection from Latter-day Saints. The flip side of this tradition was the ongoing =93Home Literature=94 tradition in which fa= ithful Latter-day Saints published affirmative works supportive of LDS value= s and goals but generally lacking in literary quality. =09Today, even though the national market / LDS market division remai= ns, the lines are blurring considerably. More and more authors of LDS litera= ture are finding national publishing venues, and regional presses such as = Deseret Book are both raising their standards and reaching out to non-LDS mar= kets. =09Meanwhile, among literary critics and scholars, the standards for = judging literary value have been evolving. The new questions raised today ar= e less concerned with aesthetic standards per se, but with how the various contemporary critical approaches allow us to understand the literary dimensions to Mormon culture generally. This is a crucial difference= in approach, for it widens the object of inquiry to include all that is literary about LDS culture, while at the same time it returns our att= ention to established or traditional texts in the LDS canon with new critica= l tools. =09The explosion of the LDS market for fiction, especially genre and serialized fiction, has made the literary component of our culture inescapable, but it also makes that component more difficult to grapp= le with=96not simply because of the number of works published, but also = because the ways of reading texts have multiplied. Measured by the varieties = of criticism practiced in academic literary studies today, that is quite= a lot. Rather than be dismayed at this, we see this as an opportunity to rev= isit the past with the new literary tools of today, while using that tradi= tional canon to help situate the newer works and genres that are populating = Mormon bookshelves. =09During the last 20 years the focus of literary criticism has turne= d more and more towards the study not so much of texts, but of contexts. In= other words, the line has been blurred between studying literature and stud= ying the culture(s) that produce and consume it. In the Association for M= ormon Letters, this has been manifest by broadening our attention to look a= t folklore, popular fiction, humor, rhetoric (including the sermon), devotional and inspirational writing, and women=92s issues. The AML = board has reflected this change in its personnel, including for the first time = during this past decade representatives from the popular Mormon presses, and hosting fund raisers and readings that feature less strictly =93liter= ary=94 authors but those who are read by or who are clearly influencing read= ing Mormons. =09Much of what concerned Mormons who have reacted negatively to the = =93good=94 writers of the Lost Generation (those who met the high aesthetic stan= dards =66rom New Criticism) was the perception that Mormon religious life w= as being used as a prop for aestheticism, which seemed to undercut the power o= f Mormon spiritual experience. That is to say, the LDS elements in suc= h writings appeared to be exploited, rather than respected. That remai= ns a perennial difficulty. However, another bogeyman also confronts LDS r= eaders today: the presence of =93cultural criticism=94 and =93postmodern cri= ticism.=94 These are frightening spectres both to more traditional academics and= to mainstream audiences. This is unfortunate, since the way that contem= porary criticism broadens both the objects and methods of literary studies m= akes possible an engagement with the full gamut of our LDS history and rel= igious experience. =09This was already intuited by the editors of the first major anthol= ogy of Mormon Literature, Richard Cracroft and Neal Lambert, whose A Believi= ng People boldly included genres like the personal essay, the sermon, di= aries, hymns, devotional literature, etc.=96genres only now being recognized= and studied by literary scholars. Of course, there is much that seems inconsistent with LDS interests or standards in some versions of cult= ural criticsim today (Gay and Lesbian studies, for example). But for now,= we are confident that more will be gained than lost as we move from text to = context in Mormon studies. For example, contemporary critical theory holds o= ut the possibility that readers may find spiritual vitality in all kinds of writing=96not necessarily in writing attempting to be aesthetically o= r inspirationally superior. =09One reason for our optimism has been the presence of critics who h= ave learned well the newest languages of literary analysis and are articu= lating these to LDS audiences in ways that make literary criticism seem an opportunity, rather than a threat, to our religion and our literature= . This is the spirit of Michael Austin=92s award-winning essay, =93The Funct= ion of Mormon Literary Criticism at the Present Time,=94 which would have fi= gured prominently in this volume had it not already been published recently= in Dialogue. Robert Bird successfully employs a postmodern approach in h= is essay about Maragaret Young=92s Salvador and Orson Scott Card=92s Los= t Boys, included below. =09Besides Austin and Bird, other valued voices in this new generatio= n of literary criticism include Susan Howe, John Bennion, Neal Kramer, Ors= on Scott Card, Tory Anderson, Harlow Clark, Gideon Burton, Benson Parkin= son, Eric Eliason, John Needham, Lisa Tait, and Laurie Illions Rodriguez..= .." [Gideon Burton and Neal Kramer] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] A Mormon Criticism Date: 02 Mar 2001 14:13:46 -0700 > Thank you for the invitation. I will certainly consider writing a > paper for next year's conference. I'm not sure about how to charter a > flight from South Jordan to Salt Lake City, but I'll look into it. > > -- > Terry L Jeffress Easy. I'll come fly you from Salt Lake #2, which is down by you, up to Salt Lake #1, which is within the city limits. Hope you like *small* planes. -- Scott Tarbet - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: Re: [AML] A Mormon Criticism Date: 02 Mar 2001 14:14:52 -0700 On Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 11:10:21AM -0700, Gideon Burton wrote: > Some excellent musings on Mormon criticism by Terry Jeffress. I hope you do > take up Marilyn's challenge to present something about this at next AML. Thank you for the 2nd to Marilyn's challenge and for your suggested reading. As usual, my "to read" list only gets longer no matter how much I have read. I agree with your piece in the sense that I have an optimism for the possibilities of Mormon literature and literary theory. I think a lot of filtering still needs to go on -- not only in the sense of waiting for the 2nd generation of a movement to help refine the parts that methodology, but also for Mormon theorists to sift out the literary tools that help us describe our literature and leave behind the tools that outright deny the existence of God. I did not mean to imply that no one in the Mormon community had a grasp of modern literary theory, but that the contemporary "popular" Mormon authors produce works using a strictly humanist (or older) model. You can tell powerful stories with those models, but when you have access to power tools, why keep mowing the lawn with a push mower. (There's that tool analogy again -- I'll try to come up with a better one.) (Of course, deconstructing my own argument, why would a power tool, a symbol of modernism and faith in technology provide a superior solution to a push mower. In relating power tools to methods of contemporary literary criticism, I create an interesting juxtaposition. I compare contemporary tools to a symbol of the modernism that the modern tools seek to question. And when I get to this point, modernism and humanism seem so much easier -- maybe stream of consciousness wasn't so bad after all.) -- Terry L Jeffress AML Webmaster and AML-List Review Archivist - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Merlyn J Clarke Subject: [AML] Eugene England Update Date: 01 Mar 2001 19:28:29 -0500 AML, I received this series of posts detailing Gene England's condition from another list, written by his son. It consists of three installments, in reverse chronological order, as is typical of email posts. Merlyn Clarke [MOD: This information is being forwarded with permission.] > > >---------- >From: "MARK ENGLAND" >Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:03:16 -0700 > >Dear friends: February 28, 2001 >Our family had a very traumatic experience Tuesday evening when the >oncologist came in and gave us a very grim, though incomplete assessment >of >Dad's pathology report. He told us that the removed growth was not a >cancer >originating in the brain but appeared to be a carcinoma that originated >elsewhere, most likely from an organ, and that it had spread through his >bloodstream. Unfortunately, we were left to believe that Dad probably >had >something like pancreatic or lung cancer. The doctor was not encouraging >at >all, which was very upsetting to those of us who were there. The rest of >the >family happened to come to the hospital within minutes and after some >initial shared grief at the discouraging news we were able to get a much >more encouraging possible interpretation of the incomplete pathology >results >from Jordan Kimball, a son-in-law and neuroradiologist. Jordan's >explanation >eased our fears somewhat while we awaited the cat scan of Dad's abdomen >scheduled for later that night. Just before the CAT scan my father >received >another blessing that my parents found very comforting. The radiologist >immediately reviewed the scan with Jordan and they could not detect any >pancreatic or lung cancer, or any other detectable cancers in the >organs. >This was a great relief, especially to my parents and sisters and me. We >all >slept better. The neurosurgeon says he has never seen a growth like the >one >removed from Gene and has sent it off to John Hopkins Hospital for >study. >Further tests are planned to see if they can determine the source of the >carcinoma, find out who cheated during the fast last Sunday, and solve >the >mystery of Dad's brain. We wish them luck. >In short we have been on a major roller coaster ride since Dad's >collapse a >week ago and are further confused though relieved by last night's CAT >scan >results. All of us were amazed that Dad seemed the most calm through >last >night's chaos. There are many explanations for the results, including >some >very encouraging scenarios, but in many ways we are still in the dark >and >some of us fear the worst. The messages and offers of help are a great >comfort to all of us, especially Gene. We wish there was more that could >be >done but at this time it is mostly waiting. In about two weeks dad >should be >strong enough to receive visitors and is looking forward to it. He told >me >yesterday how much he has been spiritually blessed through all of this >and >how he finds great strength in the prayers of others. His strength is >improving and he is staying awake longer so we are able to converse with >him. Making this connection is very comforting to us. His current >worries >are taxes and whether the family is holding prayer together. We hope >that by >next week he is more concerned about where to part his hair. Robert >Kirby >wrote a kind, funny article in the Tribune that Gene and the whole >family >greatly appreciated. Since dad has now miraculously survived three >brushes >with death(fishing accident in 78, almost stopping the bullet meant for >the >Pope in 1985, and almost dying last week) we have decided he now >qualifies >for sainthood. But of what? I suggested he be called St. George, Patron >Saint of Paradox. After some thought Gene suggested "Patron Saint of >unexpected happy moments and places" We then shared some. If you have >any >suggestions please submit them to the "Name the Saint Contest". Winner >gets >a box of chocolates or genuine relic. Your choice. > > > >Monday morning February 26, 2001 >Saturday morning, February 24, 2001 >Here is an update on Gene's condition. The doctor reported last night >that >he was pleased with the latest CAT scans. We were counting on the >pathology >reports today, but the doctor has sent them up to Salt Lake City to a >neuropathologist to analyze and they won't get the results until >Tuesday. I >don't know whether that is encouraging or not. Preliminary indications >are >that if they did not get the entire tumor because it is a complex shape >they >can use radiation treatment on the parts that remain. Evidently there is >a >wide range of tumors between malignant and benign. Gene's vital signs >are >good and he is moving his leg and facial muscles. His arm is still numb >and >not responsive, but he is starting therapy to correct it. They managed >to >get him standing and he will be moved to a regular room today. He is >speaking well, recognizes people, worrying about students, classes, >study >abroad, and determined to get through this. He makes cheesy smiles at us >to >exercise his face and tries to make jokes. He is also very tired and >sleeps >a lot so we are only able to have brief visits with him. When we came in >yesterday he was asleep with a phone in his left hand. Evidently he had >convinced the nurse to let him have a phone to call someone. We told him >that when he can lift the phone to his head with his left hand then he >can >start worrying about calling people. Contrary to rumors, Gene has not >had a >full lobotomy. The right temporal lobe was displaced by the four cists >and >tumor, which forced the right Temporal lobe to work overtime. The Doctor >said that most people could have one of their temporal lobes removed >with >little affect on them. The siblings have affectionately named the four >cists >and tumor after individuals who have been the most "helpful" to him in >his >life, especially over he past four years. Many people have shown great >kindness in helping out at home, sending flowers, and offering help and >condolences. We appreciate this very much and wish that we could accept >your >offers of help, but at this time we are mostly waiting to see what the >future holds. The phone has not stopped ringing and it is difficult to >respond to everyone's calls and need for information. We hope this >letter >will help. Many people have sent flowers, but Dad can't have them in his >room. In lieu of flowers please send donations to Sunstone Foundation or >Cummings Chocolates to Mark England or one of his sisters. Sending a >message >to gene.charlotte@attglobal.net is the most effective way to communicate >with him at this time rather than calling the hospital or our home. >Please >send encouraging messages, brain cancer recovery stories, and any humor. >We >are collecting them and reading them to him each day. We are planning a >fast >for Gene on Sunday and appreciate all of your prayers and faith at this >time. >Thursday February 22, 2001 >Many people have inquired about Gene's health so I am writing this to >update >you on the current situation. Tuesday night mom and dad went to the >symphony, which dad had a hard time staying awake for. He had been >sleeping >a lot in the past few weeks, and his depression wasn't improving. About >1:30 >in the morning he work up with terrible pain in is head, became sick and >couldn't use his left side. Mom managed to pull him out to the car and >get >him to the hospital where they did a CAT scan. The results showed some >kind >of growth with massive bleeding in his brain so they ordered an MRI. She >called me at 3:38 and asked me to come to the hospital. I arrived at >4:15 as >they were taking him in for the scan. Our biggest concern at this time >was >whether the growth was operable or not. At 5:30 doctor Reichman came in >and >showed us the scans. Dad had about five cists the size of golf balls in >his >right temporal lobe with massive bleeding. To our great relief the >doctor >said this was operabl with minimal permanent damage other than some >peripheral eyesight lost. He said he did not see a tumor but did not >rule it >out since there was so much bleeding. They operated immediately and by >nine >the doctor reported that the operation went smoothly but that they had >found >a tumor and did not know if it was malignant or benign. Lab results will >tell us in about two days. Naturally we were greatly relieved to have >him >survive the night but tempered by this new development. As the >anesthesia >wore off that day Gene regained consciousness and was able to recognize >people by voice since he could hardly open his eyes. In a semi-couscous >state he asked what had happened to him and expressed great concern >about >his job, teaching, students, and other work obligations, as well as >small >attempts to be humorous. He has limited use of his left side, which may >be >the result of permanent damage due to the hemorrhage or temporary due to >the >swelling of his brain. Preliminary signs are encouraging that he will >regain >much of his motor skills within a week, but that is still a best-case >recovery. Some of you know that Gene has suffered from major, >uncharacteristic depression for the last four months. Many of us thought >this may have been due to a chemical imbalance aggravated by work or >delayed >response to the conditions leaving BYU. Since the temporal lobe deals >with >emotions it is easy to conclude that the tumor is responsible for his >past >behavior. I asked the doctor about this and he said they may be related >but >then again they may have nothing to do with each other. There is no >direct >correlation. He did say that if Charlotte had delayed bringing him in, >Gene >would have died that night. Regardless of the news regarding the tumor, >we >are grateful for the work the doctors have done for him and that he is >alive. We appreciate all of the calls of sympathy and support from >friends >and ask for your prayers and hope. >Mark England >Markengland41@hotmail.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jennifer Ellsworth" Subject: Re: [AML] SAMUELSEN, _Three Women_ (Performance) Date: 03 Mar 2001 11:53:31 -0700 My name is Jennifer Ellsworth and I've been lurking on this list for about two years (ever since taking Gideon Burton's Mormon Literature course - I remember Ivan Wolfe from the same class). By way of introduction, I'm working on a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology at BYU. While Mormon literature isn't my primary interest, I'm an avid reader and I've really enjoyed the thought provoking discussions on AML-list. So, what's prompted me to come out of lurkdom? The performance of Eric Samuelsen's _Three Women_ that I attended last night. I thought it was a compelling treatment of issues that face Mormon women. The characterization was excellent and I recognized parts of myself and other women I know in the characters. I thought the Little Brown Theater was a great setting because it created a sense of intimacy and involvement with the story unfolding in front of you. The actresses were so convincing that I found myself feeling sorrow for their experiences. It was a very moving and thought provoking experience. If any of you have the opportunity to go see the last performance tonight - go! I'd be interested in hearing the reactions of other list members. -Jennifer Ellsworth _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] Linda Paulson ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_ (Review) Date: 02 Mar 2001 19:49:32 -0700 Katie, I have read Gerald Lund's first installment in the Kingdom and the Crown series, and actually almost every quote by the Savior is just that, a direct quote from scripture. The only exceptions I noticed were chitchat moments that we all have: Hellos/Goodbyes, etc. I was not a fan of the Work and the Glory--never even finished it--but surprisingly I really enjoyed this one. Lu Ann Staheli - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 02 Mar 2001 19:45:02 -0700 [MOD: This is a compilation of several posts from LuAnn on this thread.] As an LDS children's fiction writer myself, I'd like to hear why this category wasn't included. I know lots of fabulous LDS writers for picture book, middle grade novels, and young adult novels who should be recognized by their own culture. Lu Ann I find it interesting that Patricia T. Holland, A Quiet Heart. Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 2000 was awarded the AML Inspirational winner. My mother-in-law gave me the book for Christmas, so I felt obligated to read it in its entirety, but I didn't like it. The stories were repetative in nature and didn't seem to prove the point the author was trying to make. At the time I read the book, I felt a great deal of her success behind this particular volume was the name recognition factor with her. It's on my pile of "Books to pass on to someone else," despite the award, I'm sorry to say. Lu Ann Staheli Since you asked, some books and category divisions to consider: Adolescent Novel: Carolina Autumn by Carol Lynch Williams A Dance for Three by Louise Plummer The White Dove by Lois Thompson Bartholomew Breaking Rank by Kristen D. Randle Ender's Shadow by Orson Scott Card Shadow of the Hegemon by Orson Scott Card Adolescent Non-Fiction: Annie's Baby by Dr. Beatrice Sparks Children's Picture Books: The Bear Came Over to My House by Rick Walton I've heard Rick read this upcoming release, and I've read all the other titles. They are delightful examples of what LDS writers can bring to the general populace and should have regular recognition, not a once-in-a-while notice of the fine work these authors produce. Why can't every category be a possibility each year, then only be awarded if enough entries are available to make a decent contest? That's what the League of Utah Writers does with their annual contests. Just a suggestion. . . Lu Ann Staheli - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Nunes' 'This Time Forever' Rockets to Top of LDS List: Kent Larsen Date: 02 Mar 2001 22:03:26 -0600 Larsen 1Mar01 A4 [From Mormon-News] Nunes' 'This Time Forever' Rockets to Top of LDS List NEW YORK, NEW YORK -- Rachel Ann Nunes' newly-released book "This Time Forever" jumped to the top of the LDS bestseller list in the new lists' second week, while LDS author James Michael Pratt's latest book, "The Lighthouse Keeper" appeared on the USA Today bestseller list, also just after it was released by St. Martins Press. The just-released "This Time Forever" is Nunes' 10th novel, and its appearance at the top of the list just after the book was released solidifies her place as one of the most popular of LDS authors. Like her other books, "This Time Forever" looks at the continuing trials of an LDS family and their friends and acquaintances as they seek for love and salvation. Pratt's "Lighthouse Keeper" is also the latest of his books, and like the others is a sentimental look at human relationships. In this case, the book looks at the O'Banyon family, which over several generations and two World Wars tends a lighthouse. The other titles on the national bestseller lists all stayed on at least one list or another. On the LDS list, the largest move, after Nunes' book, was by W. Jeffrey Marsh's book, "The Light Within: What the Prophet Joseph Smith Taught Us About Personal Revelation," which looks at the doctrine of personal revelation. The current titles on US National bestseller lists are: Nothing Like it in the World, by Stephen Ambrose A history of the building of the transcontinental railroad in the US. Ambrose, a highly regarded historian, details the involvement of Mormons in building crucial portions of the road, including the driving of the "golden spike" in the heart of Mormon territory. Currently on the following bestseller lists: This Last List 26 28 Barnes & Noble (Mar 1) Top 100 19 18 BooksAMillion (Mar 1) Non-Fiction Hardcover 14 13 New York Times (Feb 25) Non-Fiction Hardcover [Independents - 6; Chains - 17] The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, by Stephen R. Covey This ten-year-old personal management classic is still selling strongly. Currently on the following bestseller lists: This Last List 89 54 Amazon.com (Mar 1) Amazon.com 100 24 25 Amazon.com (Feb 28) Non-Fiction Paperback 58 62 Barnes & Noble Top (Mar 1) Top 100 116 96 USA Today (Mar 1) 6 4 Wall Street Journal (Feb 23) Business Shadow of the Hegemon, by Orson Scott Card The second novel in Card's new series about Bean, Ender's shadow. In this novel, Bean is the tactical genius who wins the Earth for Ender's brother, Peter, the Hegemon. Currently on the following bestseller lists: This Last List 15 11 Amazon.com (Feb 28) Fiction Hardcover 27 27 New York Times (Mar 4) Fiction Hardcover The Whitechapel Conspiracy, by Anne Perry Perry's Inspector Thomas Pitt returns to 19th-century London for Perry's 20th novel about the detective. Currently on the following bestseller lists: This Last List 23 23 New York Times (Mar 4) Fiction Hardcover [Independents - 18] The Lighthouse Keeper, by James Michael Pratt The heart-warming saga of the O'Banyon clan of Lighthouse Keepers over several generations. Currently on the following bestseller lists: This Last List 104 120 USA Today (Mar 1) Top 150 Bestsellers in LDS Bookstores: This Last Title 1 - This Time Forever: A Novel by Rachel Ann Nunes Covenant Communications 2 1 Lamb of God (Video) LDS Church Distribution 3 6 Legacy (Video) LDS Church Distribution 4 3 Teaching by the Spirit by Gene R. Cook Deseret Book 5 8 A Quiet Heart by Patricia T. Holland Deseret Book 6 13 The Light Within: What the Prophet Joseph Smith Taught Us About Personal Revelation by W. Jeffrey Marsh Deseret Book 7 - LDS Hymn Book LDS Church Distribution 8 12 Children's Songbook Words and Music (CD) LDS Church Distribution 9 5 Teachings from the D&C and Church History (Video) LDS Church Distribution 10 15 Story of the Walnut Tree by Don H. Staheli, Illustrated by Robert T. Barrett Deseret Book 11 10 Beginning Reader Book of Mormon LDS Church Distribution 12 4 Between Husband and Wife: Gospel Perspectives on Marital Intimacy by Stephen E. Lamb & Douglas E. Brinley Covenant Communications 13 - Standing for Something: 10 Neglected Virtues That Will Heal Our Hearts and Homes by President Gordon B. Hinckley Times Books 14 4 God's Army (Video) directed by Richard Dutcher Zion Films 15 - Special Witnesses of Christ (Video) LDS Church Distribution >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] Travel to AML Conferences (was: A Mormon Criticism) Date: 03 Mar 2001 10:45:38 -0600 Terry Jeffress: I'm not sure about how to charter a flight from South Jordan to Salt Lake City, but I'll look into it. _______________ I've actually made the flight from SL Airport #2 to the big International Airport. I guess it's the best way to go, since the freeway is still out of commission. If they got the road fixed, though, I'd drive. It would be quicker than fighting parking at #2 and then having to rent a car at the International. The service on the flight was not bad. My father was the pilot and there were no stewardesses (pardon me, flight attendants), so we couldn't get anything to drink. Since all of the passengers were LDS, no one got drunk, either. It was one of those, "We apologize for the short flight," kinds of trips. I was impressed, so I decided to take up flying myself and flew from the big airport to #2 on many training occasions. I soloed from there. But, my heart was in the big city, and I continued to announce traffic for the radio station there, now having my own pilot's license and able to fly myself around. Those were exciting days! So my real question is, does the new light rail go past Airport #2 on the way into town, or do I still need the connecting flight? Larry Jackson (KALL Skywatch 1973-74) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] FARLAND, _Wizardborn_ Date: 03 Mar 2001 08:46:58 -0700 Book three of the Runelords series, WIZARDBORN, is now in the stores. Also, Ottakers bookstores in England is initiating a David Farland fantasy writing contest. Details will be posted at Runelords.com as they become available. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Morris Subject: [AML] Collaborative Writing Date: 03 Mar 2001 11:57:09 -0800 (PST) The excellent discussion about Mormon Criticism got me thinking about Mormon literary production as well. It seems like all the elements (working authors, Mormon readers, publishers, reviewers, academic forums) are in place for Mormon literature to thrive, and my hope is that all of us can continue to contribute to the development of all or some of these components, but I began to wonder again about particular Mormon modes of writing. This is all speculation without any founding in the history and current goings on of the field, but are there areas where Mormon authors, because of their culture and beliefs, could break into new literary territory? I think, for example, of speculative fiction. While that is a teeming, vibrant field, I think one could make the case that Mormon authors have significantly contributed to the genre (and will continue to do so). I recall that Richard Cracroft, I believe, thinks that Mormon authors could do some groundbreaking work in the personal essay. So I began to wonder about collaborative writing. I don't know much about this field, but it seems to me that, since Mormons collaborate so much in their church work (or at least I hope they do) that this might be an area where our authors could produce some outstanding work. I know that in past posts Margaret Young has written about how wonderful it was to work with Darius Gray on their book. I'm not sure exactly how to formulate this, but I have a sense that collaborative writing might be a productive way to explore our differences and similarities. I would, for instance, love to read two short stories that each revolve around the same plot, but one is told from the pov of a missionary, and the other, from his/her companion, or the investigator, or.... Of course, the authors themselves wouldn't have to match up in their bio with the pov they adopt, but collaborative writing between authors from different backgrounds could offer a sort of holographic (or multi-faceted) view of Mormon culture. The possibilities stretch out before me. But this is something I know almost nothing about. Have any of you accomplished/thought about/observed this process? Is there something about Mormon culture that would make collaborative writing a particularly valuable mode of writing for our artists, audience(s) and critics? What specific permutations of collaborative writing would you be interested in writing or reading? ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] Travel to AML Conferences (was: A Mormon Criticism) Date: 03 Mar 2001 14:33:16 -0700 There are currently 3 airports in the Salt Lake Valley: #1 is the old facility near downtown that was the main airport until International was built, which is still used for private (i.e., smaller) aircraft. #2 is the private aircraft facility in the southwest part of the Valley, and International is International. -- Scott Tarbet - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 03 Mar 2001 16:27:16 -0700 (MST) > > Since you asked, some books and category divisions to consider: > > Adolescent Novel: > Ender's Shadow by Orson Scott Card > Shadow of the Hegemon by Orson Scott Card . > > Lu Ann Staheli > I disagree with LuAnn - but I understand why she would list these under Adolescent - most libraries (ignorantly, I must assume) place all Science Fiction in Juvenile or Adolescent Novels. But considering the themes dealt with, and the violence inherent in Card's work, to classify them as "Adolescent" would be to seriously shortcount them. Why is it that serious, adult-oriented (not porn, though) Science Fiction is often labeled as Adolescent? --Ivan Wolfe - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 04 Mar 2001 00:53:43 -0700 LuAnnStaheli wrote: >As an LDS children's fiction writer myself, I'd like to hear why this >category wasn't included. I know lots of fabulous LDS writers for picture >book, middle grade novels, and young adult novels who should be recognized by >their own culture. So do I. For many reasons, I wasn't able to collect enough of them to make a fair award, so I decided to hold the award for a year until I could collect enough of the excellent work being published to make the award meaningful. The lack of an award this year has nothing to do with whether the AML believes children's or YA literature is worthy of award, or whether excellent titles were published this year; it has only to do with the fact that the awards coordinator (me) didn't get his job done as well as he should have, and didn't feel right about awarding on too short a list of titles. It's individual incompetence, not institutional neglect. >I find it interesting that Patricia T. Holland, A Quiet Heart. Salt Lake >City: Deseret Book, 2000 was awarded the AML Inspirational winner. My >mother-in-law gave me the book for Christmas, so I felt obligated to read it >in its entirety, but I didn't like it. The stories were repetative in nature >and didn't seem to prove the point the author was trying to make. At the time >I read the book, I felt a great deal of her success behind this particular >volume was the name recognition factor with her. It's on my pile of "Books to >pass on to someone else," despite the award, I'm sorry to say. The AML Awards attempt to recognize excellence in an area, not to make an absolute evaluation of worth. Every reader has to make an independent decision. By recognizing excellence, the AML is trying to draw attention to works that contribute in significant ways to excellence in a category, furthering the cause of Mormon letters, expanding our definition of Mormon letters, or dealing with issues of critical importance to Mormon culture. Often the best written book is not the winner. Sometimes the most striking work is passed over in favor of something less striking but that reaches more deeply into issues of concern to the culture. In the end, any award is subjective any recognition implies that something else is not recognized. In this case, I thought the devotional award was completely justified, and I've heard a great deal of positive comment on it. Fortunately, the market is wide and there are a large number of excellent titles that appeal to different tastes. I don't always agree with all of the judges' selections for the awards (though this year I thought all the selections were excellent). I felt that several of last years' award winners were not the best books in their categories, and while I wish the judges had awarded differently, after talking with them and reading their citations I can't argue that they had good grounds on which to award. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy that book. I hope you can recommend other books that you found more enjoyable, and that met your criteria for excellence. I know I would love to hear of other excellent works in the field. >Since you asked, some books and category divisions to consider: Thank you for the list. Now I have some recommendations of excellent titles to chase down and get for the judges. I hope others will feel free to post similar lists. I am not an expert in every area and need input from informed readers to help me find worthy titles. >Why can't every category be a possibility >each year, then only be awarded if enough entries are available to >make a decent contest? That's what the League of Utah Writers does >with their annual contests. >Just a suggestion. . . Interesting suggestion. My only comment is that the AML Awards are not a contest, there's no entrance fee, and we don't offer prizes per se. We attempt to recognize a single excellent contribution to the world of Mormon letters in as many categories as we can afford, and rotate through different categories in an effort to recognize as many different categories as we can on a limited budget. While we offer a small honorarium, we don't award good, better, best prizes. I'm open to any suggestion that will make the process more effective and more complete, and will discuss this suggestion with the board to see what we can do to continuously improve the awards. Thank you. Sometimes we miss an excellent title, though we try not to. I would love to see more comment on this list about which books AML-List members thought were exceptional and why. I can't defend the judges' reasoning, but I can offer my own opinions and will do so happily. There was some intriguing discussion last year about _Tathea_ and _Dancing Naked_ in the novel category, and _Expecting Adam_ in the essay category, and why each was both deserving or undeserving of recognition. If the AML Awards do nothing but raise awareness--and provoke disagreement and discussion--then I think the thing has done its job. Thanks for your comments. I'd love to hear more thoughts on this years' selections. Scott Parkin AML Awards Coordinator - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: Re: [AML] Collaborative Writing Date: 05 Mar 2001 05:48:46 +0900 It isn't quite what you are taliking about, but around 1997 Sunstone did this thing where one author wrote a short introduction to a story, then the next issue another author wrote another few paragraphs, and so on, with about five authors or so contributing by the end. Margaret Young, Levi Peterson, Pauline Mortenson, and um, I think Neal Chandler were among the ones who contributed to it. In the end it wasn't a very good story, but it was fun to see the different styles of the authors juxtaposed. Oh, I just thought of one. Douglas Thayer wrote a story called "Greg", about a teenage Mormon boy going through the repentence process after sleeping with his girlfriend. Later, Donlu Thayer, Douglas' wife, wrote a story called "Kellie", from the POV of the girl. The two stories were published together as a small book called "Greg and Kellie" by Aspen in 1991. Lisa and Greg Peck made a movie out of the stories, called "Only Once", which is distributed by Bristone Films. There probably have been some essays where a husband and wife tell the story in tandem from their own point of view. Elder (I forget his first name) and Patricia Holland used to speak like that at devotionals at BYU all the time, and I'm pretty sure I've seen them write like that in one of their books. As far as regular collaborations (without each taking one POV), the only ones I can think of in prose are Young and Gray and Scott Card and Kathryn Kidd's "Lovelock." There have been a lot of theater collaborations, and not just with musicals. Payne, Arrington, Perry, Pat Davis, Tim Slover, they all seem to collaborate a lot. Andrew Hall _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: RE: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 05 Mar 2001 12:19:21 -0500 In this case I think you are referring to YA literature. YA literature is a broad category written for readers in high school through college. This class of literature does tackle some very tough issues-violence, every type of abuse, social issues of every kind. The language and content can be graphic. The main dividing line between adult and YA appears to be the age of the main characters. If it is a teen-ager the book will most likely be YA rather than Adult. It in no way denigrates a work to be labeled YA. In fact, adults who overlook this area of the library or bookstore are missing some of the best reads in print. I am not familiar with these specific titles. I've been too shamefully busy to read them. But my 15 year old has read just about everything OSC has in print. She reads them, talks to her friends about them, they read them, they talk some more. I've heard a lot about them just being on the periphery. These kids are ready to tackle some serious stuff. They are appreciative of well written serious stuff. Tracie L. -----Original Message----- > > Since you asked, some books and category divisions to consider: > > Adolescent Novel: > Ender's Shadow by Orson Scott Card > Shadow of the Hegemon by Orson Scott Card . > > Lu Ann Staheli > I disagree with LuAnn - but I understand why she would list these under Adolescent - most libraries (ignorantly, I must assume) place all Science Fiction in Juvenile or Adolescent Novels. But considering the themes dealt with, and the violence inherent in Card's work, to classify them as "Adolescent" would be to seriously shortcount them. Why is it that serious, adult-oriented (not porn, though) Science Fiction is often labeled as Adolescent? --Ivan Wolfe - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] SAMUELSEN, _Three Women_ (Performance) Date: 05 Mar 2001 10:45:08 -0700 Jennifer! How great that one of the Villa productions got you to speak up here! Thank you so much! Nice to have you join us! And wonderful that you attended THREE WOMEN! Yes! Of course I loved the show. I thought it was powerful. But when I read Eric's script that was why I wanted to see it done at the Villa. We can do things that might be a bit too controversial for church arenas. The actresses were superb. And yes, the setting was perfect. And now you must come to see ANNE FRANK done in the same setting. It will be a winner. But back to Eric's script. The reason it was powerful is because we could see ourselves in it. Mormons don't get to do that very often. It reproduces Mormon experiences. And the dialogue is right on. Thanks for your comments! Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: [AML] _Remember the Titans_ (Movie) Date: 05 Mar 2001 11:07:04 -0700 Okay, it's been out for months, but finally my wife and I went to see = Remember The Titans. Good movie, not as good as we'd heard, very = formulaic, but also very well acted and at least the obligatory happy = ending was a) a little harder fought for than usual for these films and b) = at least marginally historical. =20 RTT also ran at the Varsity Theater at BYU, and that's very interesting. = RTT is a Disney film, and I understand that they were adament that it be = given a PG rating, which meant no bad language. So it was rather = refreshing to see a grittily realistic film about race relations and not = have characters dropping F-bombs every other line. And it was also a = Jerry Bruckheimer film, which meant that the football scenes are all very = violent. Anyway, this is a movie officially declared okay to show at the Varsity. = According to the powers that decide that sort of thing, this is an = acceptable film for BYU audiences. No bad language, no sex, no nudity. = Just lots of good ol' redblooded American violence. And no bad language. = Let me underscore this; officially, at least as determined by the Varsity = Theater Appropriateness Committee, this film had no bad language. Dealing with the violence issue first: I am a hypocrite on this issue, and = most BYU Mormon types are too. I love BYU football. I admire Lavell. I = watch the games, attend as many as I can, agonize over losses, exult over = victories. And if my son wanted to play high school football, I would = refuse to sign his permission slip. I think football is a violent, dirty = game. I think it distorts higher education, I think it promotes violence, = I think I should be ashamed of myself for liking to watch it on TV. My = wife could barely watch RTT because it was so violent. She's right. I = thought the huge tackles were kinda cool. I'm wrong to think this. I'm = conflicted on this issue. =20 But the language issue is what gets really interesting here. Because RTT = is full of bad language. There's terrible language all the way through = it. Characters consistently use the most offensive possible language. = It's just that it's racial epithets they're using, and not 'cuss words.' = And that means it's okay to show it at the Varsity. Now, I think racist language is both appropriate and necessary to the = story told in this film. The film is about racial tensions in the early = seventies in the south; in part, it's a film about busing. The Denzel = Washington character is admirable in the film because he fights racial = prejudice and wins the respect of the community. It's an anti-racism = film, which means you have to portray racism, which means portraying = bad-guy characters using racist language. In context, it is clearly a = film that attacks racism by showing people who are racists. And so the = film does not promote racism, despite its repeated use of racist language. But for other kinds of bad language, a contextual argument holds no water. = You can't say 'these characters have to use the F-word because that's = what those people in those circumstances would say.' Any film with the F = word in it is banned at the Varsity, because any film with the F word in = it is inappropriate, immoral, wrong. A film can be rated R just because = of a couple of F-bombs, and in LDS culture, an R rating means an immoral = movie. And context is irrelevant. I could make a strong case for rating Titans R. It's violent, and it = includes lots of bad language. But it only includes a certain kind of bad = language (a kind of bad language that, I promise you, will not be heard in = my home, whereas the other kind of bad language, F-word bad language, I do = let slip occasionally.) But then the rating system is silly anyway. I certainly don't mean to accuse anyone of hypocricy (other than me, = because on the subject of football, I am a hypocrite). I just think that = it's interesting that RTT is acceptable at the Varsity. That's our = standard. We can use one kind of bad language but not another. We can = show graphically violent scenes, as long as they're just football. What a = weird aesthetic. Eric Samuelsen - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gideon Burton Subject: [AML] SAMUELSEN, _Three Women_ Date: 05 Mar 2001 13:15:32 -0700 Congratulations to Eric Samuelsen for the fine production of Three Women at the Little Brown Theatre in Springville, Utah that concluded this weekend, and to Bill and Marilyn Brown for hosting and supporting such solid LDS drama. I have not followed the thread on Three Women to date, but my own response was a wholehearted thumbs up. Although much credit should go to good directing and acting, Samuelsen's script shows, once again, that he is plugged into and loves the LDS culture while being able to thoughtfully critique our foibles in a non-combative yet thought-provoking manner. Samuelsen also braves contemporary issues (such as rape) without exploiting them for sensationalism. Indeed, "Judgment," the one-act about rape, does not appear to be about that subject at all until well into the play after the characters are established and the dynamics among three female roommates are well credibly realized. Samuelsen's "Community Standard" --the middle one-act play about the trial of an American Fork video store for renting adult videos--managed both to relieve discomfort over the material through appropriate humor, and to look unflinchingly at the great divide between the standards Mormon communities idealize and those that they actually live by, especially regarding entertainment. I congratulate him for not letting that play devolve into wrangling over ratings (an inflammatory dead end), but letting the issue expand to a matter of greater concern--how women are treated generally in LDS culture. Once again he is simultaneously daring and yet sensitive, and this is the sort of unflinching (yet charitable) drama that makes this medium live up to its potential. No one could attend this play and not go home thinking and talking about vital social and cultural issues. I hope other theaters, patrons, and critics will continue to support this high level of LDS theater. Gideon Burton - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: Re: [AML] Putting Words in God's Mouth Date: 05 Mar 2001 15:30:44 -0500 D. Michael wrote: >I've toyed with the idea of writing a novel of the life of >Christ--except that I would tell it as if he had come in modern times. >I'm sure a lot of Mormons and other Christians would consider many of my >interpretations on how that turns out blasphemous. One of my favorite films of the past few years is Hal Hartley's _The Book of Life_: http://us.imdb.com/Details?0167059 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004Y7D4 Martin Donovan plays Christ returning to earth on Jan. 31, 1999 (wearing a business suit), to usher in the last days. The Book of Life is a Mac PowerBook (complete with little dialog boxes like, "Are you sure you want to open the fourth seal?"). There's even a very funny Mormon reference... Eric D. Dixon "We get away with nothing. We cannot escape the repercussions of our actions, however subtle they may be. We cannot get away from ourselves. We cannot get away from the world we live in. Our decisions, our choices which underlie our actions & give rise to them, create the world we inhabit." -- Robert Fripp - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: RE: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 05 Mar 2001 14:04:54 -0700 (MST) > In this case I think you are referring to YA literature. YA literature is a > broad category written for readers in high school through college. This > class of literature does tackle some very tough issues-violence, every type > of abuse, social issues of every kind. The language and content can be > graphic. The main dividing line between adult and YA appears to be the age > of the main characters. If it is a teen-ager the book will most likely be > YA rather than Adult. It in no way denigrates a work to be labeled YA. In > fact, adults who overlook this area of the library or bookstore are missing > some of the best reads in print. I am not familiar with these specific > titles. I've been too shamefully busy to read them. But my 15 year old has > read just about everything OSC has in print. She reads them, talks to her > friends about them, they read them, they talk some more. I've heard a lot > about them just being on the periphery. These kids are ready to tackle some > serious stuff. They are appreciative of well written serious stuff. > > Tracie L. Perhaps you see it that way - but the age of the character doesn't mean much - since Bean is under the age of eight - so does that make it an children's book? I was not saying that violence makes it unsuitable for adolsecents - but that OSC's stuff is marketed to an adult market - it is only a mistake of librarians that it gets filed under YA or juvenile. OSC writes SF for an adult market that happens to also include Young Adults - but it would be marketed very differently if it were truly considered to be YA stuff. I do think it denigrates OSC's work to label it as YA, because in my experience, Young Adults/Teenagers will read stuff marketed to the Adult market, but if it's marketed as YA, Adults tend not to read it. Look at the Star Wars line of books - The "Young Adult" series of "Young Jedi Knights" is read only by the Young Adult market or the die hard fan. Many adult readers of the mmarketed-to-adults SW line of books (the current New Jedi Order) have never read (and often only faintly heard of) the Young Jedi Knights series. --Ivan Wolfe - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] Collaborative Writing Date: 05 Mar 2001 10:29:20 -0700 > There probably have been some essays where a husband and wife tell the story > in tandem from their own point of view. Elder (I forget his first name) and > Patricia Holland used to speak like that at devotionals at BYU all the time, > and I'm pretty sure I've seen them write like that in one of their books. Bruce and Marie Hafen have done this in their books as well. So have Tom and Louise Plummer to an extent (mainly I think they write introductions for each other's books). And I once read a wonderful essay (on marriage, I think) that Bruce and Margaret Young had written together. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com glennsj@inet-1.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: [AML] In Defense of YA Literature Date: 05 Mar 2001 10:59:49 -0700 Tracie Laulusa already wrote an excellent response to Ivan Wolfe's complaint about OSC's books being labeled "adolescent." We juvenile/YA types are really up in arms these days, aren't we? :-) Hey, like Rodney Dangerfield, we're just lookin' for a little respect. Tracie said, in part: "The main dividing line between adult and YA appears to be the age of the main characters. If it is a teen-ager the book will most likely be YA rather than Adult. It in no way denigrates a work to be labeled YA. In fact, adults who overlook this area of the library or bookstore are missing some of the best reads in print." So true! Some of the best books ever written are YA novels. Think about _Great Expectations_, _David Copperfield_, _Pride and Prejudice_, To Kill a Mockingbird_, _Catcher in the Rye_, _A Separate Peace_. Once when Madeleine L'Engle was asked what the difference was between her children's books and her works for adults, she replied: "The age of the protagonist. That's all." I read a lot. I read Welty and Woolf and O'Connor and Faulkner and Morrison and Shakespeare and Flaubert and Dostoevsky and Hawking and Austen and Pascal and Montaigne and Cheever and Bellows and Wharton and Irving and Dante . . . and I love them all. But the other day someone asked me for a recommendation for a really great read, and I told them to get _Holes_, by Louis Sachar. It's found in the juvenile/YA section of the library. Too bad, because as a result most adults won't read it, and that will be their loss. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: [AML] Agents/Editors Open to Mormon Material Date: 05 Mar 2001 13:56:52 -0700 As promised, following is the list of agents and editors who read my query letter about "Confessions of a Mormon Missionary" and asked for the manuscript, indicating an openness to Mormon-oriented material. I'm providing this contact info in the hopes that others may use it to try selling Mormon-oriented material to a national audience. If anyone else is working along these lines, I'll hope you'll share your experiences with us, including what query letter approach you're using and any additional agents or editors who are showing openness to Mormon-oriented material. (If you want to see my query letter, write me personally and I'll send it to you.) As far as my manuscript goes, the first six agents listed have all said no to part or all of the manuscript, and only one has provided any personal rejection. All four book editors listed who said yes to my query letter still have the manuscript and haven't rejected it yet. The ms. started out as a transcript of my missionary journals, and I've twice rewritten it fairly heavily. Now I'm rewriting in response to people's comments. Right now I have two people from WorLDSmiths giving me some suggestions, and I'm seeking more (if you're willing, contact me at chrisb@enrich.com). Ideally I'd like to be rewriting for an agent or editor, but no one has taken me on yet. By the way, someone offered the AML enough of a donation to put all the following people on Irreantum's mailing list for a year to receive copies, so maybe some of these agents and editors will scan issues for interesting writers. If you publish in Irreantum in the next year (or beyond, if this donor renews all these subscriptions), you might be spotted. AGENTS Mark D. Ryan New Brand Agency Group 370 Jefferson Dr. #204 Deerfield Beach, FL 33442 Frances M. Kuffel Jean V. Naggar Literary Agency 216 E. 75th St. New York NY 10021 Elizabeth Wales Levant & Wales, Lit. Agency, Inc. 108 Hayes St. Seattle WA 98109-2808 Stephanie Lee Manus & Associates Literary Agency 375 Forest Avenue Palo Alto, CA 94301 manuslit@manuslit.com Richard Curtis Richard Curtis Assoc., Inc. 171 E. 74th St., Suite 2 New York, NY 10021 ltucker@curtisagency.com (This agency said no to my snail-mailed query, but Curtis both telephoned and e-mailed enthusiastically about my EXACT same e-mailed query. He said the ms. didn't match the query letter in gripping his attention, he didn't get enough sense of why I devoted myself as a missionary, and too much of the material lost the impact and drama of a man torn between opposing forces.) James Levine Communications, Inc. 307 Seventh Ave., 19th Fl. New York, NY 10001 levineja@aol.com (I spent no postage on him; he conducted all business via e-mail. I caught an interesting CC to his secretary: "Jamie and Miek, I have downloaded to a file for Bigelow; please take a look at this while I'm out the next couple of days. Miek, please convert it to ebook format and save in the Bigelow file, so that I can transfer it to my handheld and read on the plane to California on Sunday.") James C. Vines THE VINES AGENCY, INC. 648 Broadway, Suite 901 New York, NY 10012 jvtva@mindspring.com Susan Schulman Susan Schulman, a Literary Agency 454 W. 44th St. New York, NY 10036-5205 schulman@aol.com Liza Dawson Liza Dawson Assoc. 240 W. 35th St., Ste. 500 New York, NY 10001 ldawson@viconet.com Jenny Bent Harvey Klinger, Inc. 301 W. 53rd St. New York, NY 10019 jenlbent@aol.com (I believe she's Robert Van Wagoner's agent.) Richard P. McDonough, Literary Agent 34 Pinewood Irvine, CA 92604-3274 cestmoi@msn.com Jeffrey O'Bomeghie JLA Literary Agency P.O. Box 22787 Baltimore, MD 21203 jlaagency@aol.com Pamela G. Ahearn The Ahearn Agency 2021 Pine St. New Orleans, LA 70118 pahearn@aol.com Karen Carr Finesse Literary Agency 655 N. First St. Wood River, IL 62095 angelof7@home.com H. Allen Etling Lawyer's Literary Agency, Inc. One America Plaza 600 West Broadway, Suite 175 San Diego, CA 92101 allenetling@spherion.com Laura Weber Gem Literary Services 4717 Poe Rd. Medina, OH 44256-9745 gemlit@earthlink.net Mike Larsen Michael Larsen/Elizabeth Pomada Literary Agents 1029 Jones St. San Francisco, CA 94109-5023 larsenpoma@aol.com Hy Cohen Hy Cohen Literary Agency, Ltd. P.O. Box 43770 Upper Montclair, NJ 07043 cogency@home.com Jeff Kleinman Graybill & English 1920 N Street, NW #620 Washington, DC 20036 jmkagent@aol.com Charles Everitt Charles Everitt Literary Agency, Inc. 3 School St. Boston, MA 02108 cbela@msn.com Jeff Herman The Jeff Herman Agency, LLC 332 Bleecker St., Ste. G-31 New York, NY 10014 jherman@infinet.com Linda Roghaar Linda Roghaar Literary Agency, Inc. 133 High Point Dr. Amherst, MA 01002 lroghaar@aol.com EDITORS Kate Niedzwiecki Villard Books / Random House Inc. 201 E. 50th Street New York, NY 10022 KNiedzwiecki@randomhouse.com Rebecca Milos Henry Holt & Company 115 W. 18th Street New York, NY 10011 rebecca.milos@hholt.com Cynthia Sherry Chicago Review Press 814 North Franklin St. Chicago, IL 60610 csherry@ipgbook.com Anne Sowards (I think she's a BYU alumnae) The Berkley Publishing Group 375 Hudson St. New York, NY 10014 Xlibris Corporation (Sent me a flyer saying they'd publish my book in no time and at no cost--this may end up being my best option for achieving about a dozen sales to relatives and friends, who aren't my first choice for an audience.) -------- For a sample copy of IRREANTUM, a Mormon literary quarterly, send $4 to the Association for Mormon Letters, 262 S. Main St., Springville, UT 84663. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: [AML] Children's/YA Lit by Mormon Authors (was: Awards at the Conference) Date: 05 Mar 2001 11:47:16 -0700 Thank you, Scott, for taking the time to respond to all the queries about this year's AML awards. I appreciate your candor, your willingness to accept responsibility for the lack of attention given to children's and YA literature, and your openness to new ideas and suggestions. The fact that no award was given in the juvenile/YA category this year (together with the fact that it hasn't been given since 1998) caused quite a stir in the children's writing community. One well-respected member of that community went so far as to post this on the utahchildrenswriters listserv: (quote): "My advice to LDS writers of books for children or teenagers: don't waste your time with AML. They're not interested, and they won't appreciate the work you do." (end of quote) I don't believe this is true, and I ardently defended the AML in a return post. But the fact that this perception exists makes me very sad. Unfortunately, because I was so quick to argue in defense of the AML, I was nominated as the person who gets to make sure that all publishing information in the children's/YA field gets passed on to the awards committee. :-) So here is a start. (I think most of you will be surprised to see how active and successful our writers have been in the national market. We're not just talkin' the talk; we're walkin' the walk! And lest any of you think it is somehow "easier" to write and publish children's fiction, an editor at a major New York publishing house recently revealed that the odds of having a children's book accepted was about 1 in 40,000 as opposed to 1 in 10,000 for an adult book.) (This first list was provided by Rick Walton, LDS picture book writer extraordinaire!) LDS PICTURE BOOK AUTHORS AND ILLUSTRATORS PUBLISHING IN THE NATIONAL MARKET (Since the purpose of this list is to show what LDS picture book authors and illustrators are doing on the national market, I have not included books published for the LDS market. Some of these authors and illustrators have produced books other than picture books. I have not included those books in this list.) Andersen, Bethanne (illustrator) --Bluebird Summer, Deborah Hopkinson (Greenwillow, 2001) --Kindle Me a Riddle: A Pioneer Story, by Roberta Karim (Greenwillow, 1999) --A Prayer for the Earth: The Story of Naamah, Noah's Wife, Sandy Eisenberg Sasso (Jewish Lights, 1996) Bagley, Pat (author/illustrator) --Peek-A-Boo Magic (Aspen, 1995) (author) --Showdown at Slickrock, il. Guy Francis (Aspen, 1996) (illustrator) Bowen, Anne --I Loved You Before You Were Born, il. Greg Shed (HarperCollins, 2001) Buehner, Caralyn --The Escape of Marvin the Ape, il. Mark Buehner (Dial, 1992) --Fanny's Dream, il. Mark Buehner (Dial, 1996) --I Did It, I'm Sorry, il. Mark Buehner (Dial, 1998) --I Want to Say I Love You, il. Jacqueline Rogers (Phyllis Fogelman Books, 2001) --It's a Spoon, Not a Shovel, il. Mark Buehner (Dial, 1995) --A Job For Wittilda, il. Mark Buehner (Dial, 1993) Buehner, Mark (illustrator) --The Adventures of Taxi Dog, by Debra and Sal Barracca (Dial, 1990) --The Escape of Marvin the Ape, by Caralyn Buehner (Dial, 1992) --Fanny's Dream, by Caralyn Buehner (Dial, 1996) --Harvey Potter's Balloon Farm, by Jerdine Nolen (Lothrop Lee & Shepard, 1994) --I Am the Cat, by Alice Schertle (Lothrop, 1999) --I Did It, I'm Sorry, by Caralyn Buehner (Dial, 1998) --It's a Spoon, Not a Shovel, by Caralyn Buehner (Dial, 1995) --A Job For Wittilda, by Caralyn Buehner (Dial, 1993) --Maxi, the Hero, by Debra and Sal Barracca (Dial, 1995) --My Life With a Wave, by Catherine Cowan and Octavio Paz (Lothrop Lee & Shepard, 1997) --My Monster Mama Loves Me So, by Laura Leuck (Lothrop, 1999) --No More Water in the Tub, by Tedd Arnold (Puffin, 1998) Cannon, A. E. (Ann Edwards) --I Know What You Do When I Go to School, il. Jennifer Mazzucco (Gibbs Smith, 1996) Covey, Traci O'Very --Mapped Out: The Search for Snookums, by Carol Baicker-McKee (Gibbs Smith, 1997) Duncan, Robert (illustrator) --Amber on the Mountain, by Tony Johnston (Dial, 1994) Evans, Lezlie --Can You Count Ten Toes?: Count to 10 in 10 Different Languages, Denis Roche (Houghton Mifflin, 1999) --If I Were the Wind, Victoria Lisi (Ideals Childrens Books, 1997) --Rain Song, il. Cynthia Jabar (Houghton Mifflin, 1995) --Snow Dance, il. Cynthia Jabar (Houghton Mifflin, 1997) --Sometimes I Feel Like a Storm Cloud, il. Marsha Gray Carrington (Mondo Pub, 1999) Evans, Richard Paul --The Christmas Candle, il. Jacob Collins (Simon & Schuster, 1998) --The Dance, il. Jonathan Linton (Simon & Schuster, 1999) --The Spyglass: A Story of Faith, il. Jonathan Linton (Simon & Schuster, 2000) Foster, Karen (author/illustrator) --Good Night My Little Chicks/Buenas noches mis pollitos (First Story Press, 1997) Francis, Guy (illustrator) --Showdown at Slickrock, by Pat Bagley (Aspen, 1996) Garns, Allen (illustrator) --Astronauts Are Sleeping, by Natalie Standiford (Bradford, 1996) --The Gift Stone, by Robyn Harbert Eversole (Knopf, 1998) --When I Go Camping With Grandma, by Marion Dane Bauer (Bridgewater, 1995) --Winter Fox, by Jennifer Brutschy (Knopf, 1993) Glenn, Sharlee --Gracie and Roo, il. Dan Andreasen (Putnam, 2004) Graham, Mark (illustrator) --Alicia's Tutu, by Robin Pulver (Dial, 1997) --Baby Talk, by Fred Hiatt (Margaret McElderry, 1999) --Charlie Anderson, by Barbara Abercrombie (Aladdin, 1995) --Come Meet Muffin!, by Joyce Carol Oates (Ecco, 1998) --The Dream Jar, by Bonnie Pryor (Morrow, 1996) --Father, We Thank You, by Ralph Waldo Emerson (Seastar, 2001) --Greenbrook Farm, by Bonnie Pryor (Simon & Schuster, 1991) --Home By Five, by Ruth Wallace-Brodeur (McElderry, 1992) --If I Were Queen of the World, by Fred Hiatt (McElderry, 1997) --Lottie's Dream, by Bonnie Pryor (Simon & Schuster, 1992) --Lucy Comes to Stay, by Rosemary Wells (Dial, 1994) --Merry Birthday, Nora Noel, by Ann Dixon (Eerdmans, 1996) --Michael and the Cats, by Barbara Abercrombie (McElderry, 1993) --Miss Opal's Auction, by Susan Vizurraga (Henry Holt, 2000) --Murphy and Kate, by Ellen Howard (Simon & Schuster, 1995) --My Father's Hands, by Joanne Ryder (William Morrow, 1994) --Sarah's Sleepover, by Bobbie Rodriguez (Viking, 2000) --Shadows Are About, by Ann Whitford Paul (Scholastic, 1992) --Waiting for Noel: An Advent Story, by Ann Dixon (Eerdmans, 2000) --Where's the Baby?, by Tom Paxton (Morrow, 1993) --Wilderness Cat, by Natalie Kinsey-Warnock (Cobblehill, 1992) Hawkes, Kevin (illustrator) --And to Think That We Thought That We'd Never Be Friends, by Mary Ann Hoberman (Crown, 1999) --Boogie Bones, by Elizabeth Loredo (Putnam, 1997) --By the Light of the Halloween Moon, by Caroline Stutson (Puffin, 1993) --Cowpokes, by Caroline Stutson (Lothrop, 1999) --Dreamland, by Roni Schotter (Orchard, 1996) --The Enormous Snore, by M. L. Miller (Putnam, 1995) --Handel, Who Knew What He Liked, by Matthew T. Anderson (Candlewick, 2001) --Imagine That: Poems of Never Was, by Jack Prelutsky (Knopf, 1998) --Jason's Bears, by Marion Dane Bauer (Hyperion, 2000) --Lady Bugatti, by Joyce Maxner (Puffin, 1991) --The Librarian Who Measured the Earth, by Kathryn Lasky (Little Brown, 1994) --Marven of the Great North Woods, by Kathryn Lasky (Harcourt Brace, 1997) --My Friend the Piano, by Catherine Cowan (Lothrop, 1998) --My Little Sister Ate 1 Hare, by Bill Grossman (Crown, 1996) --Nose, by Nicolai Gogol, retold by Catherine Cowan (Lothrop, 1994) --Painting the Wind, by Michelle Dionetti (Little Brown, 1996) --The Poombah of Badoombah, by Dee Lillegard (Putnam, 1998) --Timothy Tunny Swallowed a Bunny, by Bill Grossman (Laura Geringer, 2001) --The Turnip, by Walter De La Mare (David R. Godine, 1992) --Weslandia, by Paul Fleischman (Candlewick, 1999) (author/illustrator) --Then the Troll Heard the Squeak (Puffin, 1991) --His Royal Buckliness (Lothrop, 1992) Henriod, Lorraine --Grandma's Wheelchair (Albert Whitman, 1982) Hepworth, Cathi (author/illustrator) --Antics!: An Alphabetical Anthology (Putnam, 1992) (illustrator) --Bug Off!" A Swarm of Insect Words, Ed. Nancy Paulsen, (Putnam, 1998) --Hattie Baked a Wedding Cake, by Toby Speed (Putnam, 1994) --While You Are Asleep, by Gwynne L. Isaacs (Walker, 1991) Hong, Lily Toy (Author/Illustrator) --The Empress and the Silkworm (Albert Whitman, 1995) --How the Ox Star Fell From Heaven (Albert Whitman, 1991) --Two of Everything (Albert Whitman, 1993) --ILLUSTRATOR --Mr. Sun and Mr. Sea, by Andrea Butler (Goodyear, 1994) Post, Howard --The Magic Boots, by Scott Emerson (Gibbs-Smith, 1994) --Under the Moon and Stars, by Scott Emerson (Gibbs-Smith, 1995) Hull, Richard (Illustrator) --The Alphabet From Z To A (With Much Confusion on the Way), by Judith Viorst (Atheneum, 1994) --The Cat & The Fiddle & More, by Jim Aylesworth (Atheneum, 1992) --Jellyfish to Insects, by William Hemsley (Gloucester, 1991) --My Sister's Rusty Bike, by Jim Aylesworth (Atheneum, 1996) Jacobs, Jim --Babri, il. Fahimeh Amiri (Gibbs Smith, 1994) Kosaka, Fumi (illustrator) --Bubbles, Bubbles, by Kathi Appelt (HarperCollins, 2001) --Let's Count the Raindrops and Other Weather Poems (Viking, 2001) --Ordinary Mary, by Emily Pearson (Gibbs Smith, 2001) Leavitt, Mel --Grena and the Magic Pomegranate, il. Beth Wright (Carolrhoda, 1994) --Snow Story, il. JoEllen McAllister Stammen (Simon & Schuster, 1995) Madsen, Ross Martin --Perrywinkle and the Book of Magic Spells, il. Dirk Zimmer (Dial, 1986) --Perrywinkle's Magic Match, il. Dirk Zimmer (Dial, 1997) --Stewart Stork, il. Megan Halsey (Dial, 1993) Meidell, Sherry (illustrator) --ABC's of Uniforms and Outfits, by Barbara Williams (Winston-Derek, 1991) --Emma Jo's Song, by Faye Gibbons (Boyds Mills, 2001) Newbold, Greg (illustrator) --Winter Lullaby, by Barbara Seuling (Harcourt, 1998) --Spring Song, by Barbara Seuling (Harcourt, 2001) --The Touch of the Master's Hand, by Myra Brooks Welch (Aspen, 1997) Olson, Julie (illustrator) --Hip, Hip Hooray for Annie McCrae, by Brad Wilcox (Gibbs Smith, 2001) Pearson, Emily --Ordinary Mary, il. by Fumi Kosaka, (Gibbs Smith, 2001) Slangerup, Erik Jon --Dirt Boy, il. John Manders (Whitman, 2000) Soentpiet, Chris (illustrator) --Coolies, by Yin (Philomel, 2001) --Dear Santa, Please Come to the 19th Floor, by Yin (Philomel, 2001) --Jin Woo, by Eve Bunting (Clarion, 2001) --The Last Dragon, by Susan Miho Nunes (Houghton Mifflin, 1997) --Molly Bannaky, by Alice McGill (Houghton Mifflin, 1999) --Momma, Where Are You From?, by Marie Bradby (Orchard, 2000) --More Than Anything Else, by Marie Bradby (Orchard, 1995) --Peacebound Trains, by Haemi Balgassi (Clarion, 1996) --A Sign, by George Ella Lyon (Orchard 1998) --The Silence in the Mountains, by Liz Rosenberg (Orchard, 1999) --Silver Packages: An Appalachian Christmas Story, by Cynthia Rylant (Orchard, 1997) --So Far From the Sea, by Eve Bunting (Clarion, 1998) --Something Beautiful, by Sharon Dennis Wyeth (Doubleday, 1998) --Where Is Grandpa?, by T. A. Barron (Philomel, 2000) (author/illustrator) --Around Town (Lothrop, 1994) Strickland, Michael --Haircuts at Sleepy Sam's, by Keaf Holliday (Boyds Mills, 1998) Terry, Will (illustrator) --Pizza Pat, by Rita Gelman (Random House, 1999) Tunnell, Michael O. --Beauty and the Beastly Children, il. John Emil Cymerman (Tambourine, 1993) --Chinook, il. Barry Root (Tambourine, 1993) --Halloween Pie, il. Kevin O'Malley (Lothrop, 1999) --The Joke's On You George, il. Kathy Osborne (Tambourine, 1993) --Mailing May, il. Ted Rand (Greenwillow, 1997) Walton, Rick --The Bear Came Over to My House, il. James Warhola (Putnam, 2001) --Bullfrog Pops!, il. Chris McAllister (Gibbs Smith, 1999) --Bunny Day, il. Paige Miglio (HarperCollins, 2002) --Cars At Play, w/Ann Walton, il. James Croft (Putnam, 2002) --How Can You Dance?, il. Ana Lopez-Escriva (Putnam, 2001) --How Many How Many How Many, il. Cynthia Jabar (Candlewick, 1993) --Little Dogs Say "Rough", il. Henry Cole (Putnam, 2000) --My Two Hands, My Two Feet, il. Julia Gorton (Putnam, 2000) --Noah's Square Dance, il. Thor Wickstrom (Lothrop Lee & Shepard, 1995) --Once There Was a Bull...frog, il. Greg Hally (Gibbs Smith, 1995) --One More Bunny, il. Paige Miglio (Lothrop, 2000) --Pig Pigger Piggest, il. Jimmy Holder (Gibbs Smith, 1997) --So Many Bunnies, il. Paige Miglio (Lothrop, Lee & Shepard, 1998) --That's My Dog!, il. Julia Gorton (Putnam, 2001) --That's What You Get, il. Jimmy Holder (Gibbs Smith, 2000) --What to Do When a Bug Climbs In Your Mouth and Other Poems to Drive You Buggy, il. Nancy Carlson (Lothrop Lee & Shepard, 1995) --Why the Banana Split, il. Jimmy Holder (Gibbs Smith, 1998) --You Don't Always Get What You Hope For, il. Heidi Stetson (Gibbs Smith, 1996) Wilcox, Brad --Hip, Hip Hooray for Annie McCrae, il. Julie Olson (Gibbs Smith, 2001) Williams, Barbara --ABC's of Uniforms and Outfits, il. Sherry Meidell (Winston-Derek, 1991) --Albert's Toothache, il. Kay Chorao (Dutton, 1988) --Chester Chipmunk's Thanksgiving, il. Kay Chorao (Dutton, 1978) --Donna Jean's Disaster, il. Margot Apple (Albert Whitman, 1986) --Gary and the Very Terrible Monster, il. Lois Axelman (Children's Press, 1973) --Guess Who's Coming to My Tea Party?, il. Yuri Salzman (Holt, 1979) --Hello, Dandelions, photos by the author (Holt, 1979) --The Horrible, Impossible Witch Child, il. Carol Nicklaus (Avon, 1982) --If He's My Brother, il. Tomie De Paola (Harvey House, 1976) --Jeremy Isn't Hungry, il. Martha Alexander (Dutton, 1989) --Kevin's Grandma, il Kay Chorao (Dutton, 1991) --Never Hit a Porcupine, il. Anne Rockwell (Dutton, 1977) --So What If I'm a Sore Loser, il. Linda Strauss Edwards (Harcourt, 1981) --Someday, Said Mitchell, il. Kay Chorao (Dutton, 1976) --A Valentine for Cousin Archie, il. Kay Chorao (Dutton, 1980) --We Can Jump, il. Mary P. Maloney and Stan Fleming (Children's Press, 1974) --Whatever Happened to Beverly Bigler's Birthday?, il. Emily Arnold McCully (Harcourt, 1978) (This next list was provided by Chris Crowe, YA writer and Professor of English at BYU. Chris includes here only those LDS YA authors who have published in the national market. There are twice as many publishing in the LDS market. We'll provide you with a list of those at a later date) Beatrice Sparks, Go Ask Alice (1971), Annie's Baby (1998), Treacherous Love (2000) Berniece Rabe, Hiding Mr. McNulty (1998) Dean Hughes, Scrappers series (1999), Soldier Boys (2001) Lael Littke, Haunted Sister (1998) Tracy Hickman, author or co-author of more than forty novels, including the Dragonlance and Darksword series. Thelma Hatch Wyss' Star Girl (1967), Here at the Scenic-Vu Motel (1988) The following have been publishing since 1990s: Martine Bates Leavitt, The Dollmage (2001) and Tom Finder (2002) Rebecca Thomas Tingle, The Edge on the Sword (2001) Ann Edwards Cannon, Charlotte (2002) Louise Plummer, A Dance for Three (2000) Carol Lynch Williams, Carolina Autumn (2000) and Christmas in Heaven (2000) Paul Pitts' four novels, all with Avon Helen Hughes Vick's two series, Walker of Time and Courage of the Stone Stephen Wunderli, The Blue Between the Clouds (1992) Kimberley Griffiths Little, Breakaway (1997) and Enchanted Runner (1999) Sharlee Mullins Glenn, Circle Dance (1998) Kristin Embry Litchman, All is Well (1998) Laura Torres, November Ever After (1999) and Crossing Montana (2001) Lois Thompson Bartholomew, The White Dove (2000) Laurel Brady, Say You Are My Sister (2000) Ron Woods, The Hero (2001) Chris Crowe, Mississippi Summer, 1955 (2002) Randall Wright, A Hundred Days from Home (2002) ______________ We will provide you with a list of middle-grade authors and YA and picture book authors publishing in the LDS market at a later time. Thanks, again, for you willingness to consider these titles. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eileen Stringer Subject: [AML] Query about AWP Date: 05 Mar 2001 15:07:26 -0700 I received an invitation from AWP - The Associated Writing Programs to join their program. It was a Direct Mail invitation and I just wanted to know if anyone had heard of this group, what they are all about and any other pertinent information. You may contact me off list if our moderator determines that this may not be conducive to this list. [MOD: Fine for here--discussions of various writing programs are of great interest to many of our members, and have a pretty close link to Mormon lit--i.e., the production of by us...] Thank you, Eileen Stringer eileens99@bigplanet.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eileen Stringer Subject: Re: [AML] Agents/Editors Open to Mormon Material Date: 05 Mar 2001 14:57:41 -0700 > As promised, following is the list of agents and editors who read my > query letter about "Confessions of a Mormon Missionary" and asked for > the manuscript, indicating an openness to Mormon-oriented material. Thank you Chris. > By the way, someone offered the AML enough of a donation to put all > the following people on Irreantum's mailing list for a year to receive > copies, so maybe some of these agents and editors will scan issues for > interesting writers. I think this is a very noble and valuable undertaking and would be willing to donate toward extending the subscriptions past a year. Eileen eileens99@bigplanet.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] In Defense of YA Literature Date: 05 Mar 2001 17:05:39 -0700 At the risk of daring to address someone who ACTUALLY WRITES young adult fiction.... :) On Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:59:49 -0700, Sharlee Glenn wrote: > But the other day someone asked me for a >recommendation for a really great read, and I told them to get _Holes_, = by >Louis Sachar. It's found in the juvenile/YA section of the library. = Too >bad, because as a result most adults won't read it, and that will be = their >loss. This is true. When I recommend YA books to adult readers, usually I get very funny looks and comments like "Isn't this a kid's book?" Most = people don't realize the kind of fiction that is being produced in this genre, = or that the mark of the best young adult fiction is its lasting appeal to people of all ages. But examine your last statement--that adults won't read YA fiction = because of the library placement--in light of what it means to science fiction = and fantasy. Ivan is right about how many libraries handle SF. More than a = few of them shelve most, if not all, of their SF in the YA section. The implication of this policy is clear: SF is *by definition* not something adults would read. In fact, this denigrates not only the SF genre but = the YA genre as well, by implying that such books are something one outgrows, and happily so. I happen to agree with Ivan about some of Orson Scott Card's books being incorrectly classified as YA. It's not that I wouldn't give them to my teenaged children, assuming I had any--after all, I was a teen when I discovered _Ender's Game_. I am simply not content to let only the protagonist's age define a book as either YA or not. It's an important factor, but not the only one. There's a difference between "books a = young adult can read" and "YA books." We briefly discussed Barbara = Kingsolver's _The Poisonwood Bible_ on this list a while back; the protagonists are = all teens or younger for most of the book, but does that make it a YA title? Not at all. And you won't see it shelved as such in any store or = library. One of the best classes I took at BYU was on adolescent literature. (It = was made doubly interesting because the textbook cited the Mesa Public = Library for their excellent YA section, something I heartily applaud--what a = great library!) I wish I could remember everything we talked about, because = there were several other factors that made a book a YA title. The ones I remember, aside from the age of the protagonist, were: *protagonist having to solve problems on their own, without adult help *emphasis on age-specific problems *a simple plot and since I'll get jumped on for that last one, let me emphasize that = simple does not mean EASY or JUVENILE (in the pejorative sense); it means straightforward, usually just one major plotline, and any complexity is going to arise from interpreting that plotline, not from interweaving several plots. These are generic characteristics, and any given YA novel may ignore one or all of them, but they offer a more specific picture of what a YA book looks like. =20 Read Jerry Spinelli's _Maniac Magee_. Read Louise Plummer's _A Dance for Three_ (please, if you read no other YA this year, read this one!). Read John M. Ford's _Growing Up Weightless_, which may be the best SF coming = of age novel ever written, even though the ending is slightly = unsatisfactory. Toss aside all the dreck that is published as adult fantasy these days (well, not David Farland) and read Garth Nix and Margaret Mahy and = Patricia McKillip's early stuff and absolutely everything ever written by Diana = Wynne Jones. These are not the sort of books you give children. These are written for thinking, intelligent, well-read people of all ages. Read a good YA title. Pass it on to your adult friends. Don't wear dark glasses when you venture into the "children's" section of the library. = It's not too late to keep the python of old age from swallowing you entirely. Melissa Proffitt - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Agents/Editors Open to Mormon Material Date: 05 Mar 2001 17:13:38 -0700 Chris, thank you so much for this list! I see several I have already worked with. I think if we bombard the market in numbers, some of the "spaghetti is going to land on the wall." Thanks! Marilyn - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] A Mormon Criticism Date: 05 Mar 2001 17:28:34 -0700 I had to read this three times to get it! Duh. Marilyn (Do fly over, Terry!) ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 2:13 PM > > Thank you for the invitation. I will certainly consider writing a > > paper for next year's conference. I'm not sure about how to charter a > > flight from South Jordan to Salt Lake City, but I'll look into it. > > > > -- > > Terry L Jeffress > > Easy. I'll come fly you from Salt Lake #2, which is down by you, up to Salt > Lake #1, which is within the city limits. Hope you like *small* planes. > > -- Scott Tarbet - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: RE: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 05 Mar 2001 20:03:20 -0500 Well, if adults want to be stuffy and not read something that they *think* may be beneath them just because it's on a different shelf, that's their unintelligent loss. It is not, however, just a matter of what the librarians do or do not do-at least to my understanding. It is a publisher decision. OSC is a big name now, so perhaps his books would be published in the adult category no matter what the age of the protagonist. By and large, however, if the protagonist is not an adult, a publisher that publishes for adults does not want to see it. A writer researching markets will send their manuscript to the publisher most likely to publish that type of piece. Youth protagonist-YA market. Adult protagonist-adult market. I know there are those on the list much more knowledgeable in the ins and outs of publishing. Perhaps they could shed more light on the subject. Tracie L. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Children's/YA Lit by Mormon Authors (was: Awards at the Date: 05 Mar 2001 22:21:10 -0700 Sharlee Glenn wrote: >The fact that no award was given in the juvenile/YA category this year >(together with the fact that it hasn't been given since 1998) caused quite a >stir in the children's writing community. One well-respected member of that >community went so far as to post this on the utahchildrenswriters listserv: >(quote): "My advice to LDS writers of books for children or teenagers: >don't waste your time with AML. They're not interested, and they won't >appreciate the work you do." (end of quote) I'm sorry that people are upset, and I can't argue that they don't have a right to be. All I can say is that I'm trying, and I apologize to both the AML and the juvenile/YA community for my failure to make an award this year. I can't comment to prior years, but this one *was* mine. >(This first list was provided by Rick Walton, LDS picture book writer >extraordinaire!) >(This next list was provided by Chris Crowe, YA writer and Professor of >English at BYU. Thank you for the marvellous list. This is an absolutely invaluable resource for me, and I will start soliciting titles from publishers immediately. Three quick notes... First, I can't make up for past years, but I will certainly make sure that all the books published during my watch (1999 - present) are made available to the judge for consideration. Second, we can't recognize all worthy books. The judge will select a small number of titles to be awarded. I know some will feel slighted that their titles are not recognized, and I can only remind that any set of awards must be limited and subjective. But the effort will be made, and the books will be considered. I promise that. Third, lists like these are the only way I can have any hope of knowing what's published by or for Mormons in this market. I desperately need the help of those of you who know what's been published, and can recommend specific titles that I can chase down and obtain copies of. A general plea to whoever is reading out there... PLEASE SEND ME TITLES OF ANYTHING THAT YOU THINK IS WORTH READING. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH SENDING ME THE TITLES OF YOUR OWN BOOKS! Feel free to send those privately; then again, there's nothing wrong with posting them on the list, either. [MOD: Amen!] >Chris includes here only those LDS YA authors who have >published in the national market. There are twice as many publishing in the >LDS market. We'll provide you with a list of those at a later date) Thank you. I will be soliciting titles from the major LDS publishers, but I would appreciate such a list to make sure that I have all the titles. >We will provide you with a list of middle-grade authors and YA and picture >book authors publishing in the LDS market at a later time. Cool. Thank you for your good work. Scott Parkin AML Awards Coordinator [scottparkin@earthlink.net] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: harlowclark@juno.com Subject: Re: [AML] FARLAND, _Wizardborn_ Date: 05 Mar 2001 23:03:03 -0800 On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 08:46:58 -0700 Marny Parkin writes: > Book three of the Runelords series, WIZARDBORN, is now in the > stores. > > Also, Ottakers bookstores in England is initiating a David Farland > fantasy writing contest. Details will be posted at Runelords.com > as they become available. I got my middle son, Andrew, copies of The Runelords and The Brotherhood of the Wolf for Christmas, and my oldest son, Mason, read them. He told me last night he had sent Wolverton a letter, said some nice things, and Wolverton wrote back, saying he was going to use the comment in some advertising. Mason's writing a fantasy novel that is somewhat reminiscent of Farland, but he'd never heard of Wolverton before reading The Runelords. Says he hopes to have it finished and off to a publisher before leaving on his mission this summer. He's posted 4 chapters on his website, http://www.geocities.com/land_of_tur/, and says he may have the fifth this week or next. He plans to move the site soon because of some policy changes at Geocities. Harlow S. Clark ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gideon Burton Subject: RE: [AML] Children's/YA Lit by Mormon Authors Date: 06 Mar 2001 08:35:02 -0700 Sharlee-- Thanks for the great list of Children's/YA Lit! I'll make sure this gets put into the Mormon Literature Database which is currently under revision. It's high time we knew more about these authors and titles--especially given their strong national publishing! Gideon Burton - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: katie@aros.net Subject: Re: [AML] LUND, _Kingdom and the Crown_ (was ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_) Date: 06 Mar 2001 10:31:54 -0700 (MST) Quoting LuAnnStaheli : > Katie, > I have read Gerald Lund's first installment in the Kingdom and the Crown > series, > and actually almost every quote by the Savior is just that, a direct > quote from > scripture. The only exceptions I noticed were chitchat moments that we > all have: > Hellos/Goodbyes, etc. I was not a fan of the Work and the Glory--never > even > finished it--but surprisingly I really enjoyed this one. > Lu Ann Staheli > Interesting. I probably should have guessed it would be like this. I have been leery of picking up this book because I really don't want to see the Savior fictionalized to the extent that Joseph Smith et. al. are in _The Work and the Glory_. But I should've known Lund would stick to his facts like this. --Katie Parker - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: [AML] Re: In Defense of YA Literature (was: Awards at the Conference) Date: 06 Mar 2001 10:35:24 -0700 At the AML Conference in 1999 (?), Dean Hughes made some wonderful comments about authors of children's books (he being one, though he is currently most famous for the _Children of the Promise_ series). I wonder if we could get a summary of his acceptance speech for novel given in 1999 (check when his novel won). It was funny, poignant, and really spoke to the issue children's writers confront in being considered "less than" writers of adult fiction. [MOD: I'd certainly be willing to post such a thing on the List, if (a) someone can get it to me in plain text format, and (b) we get permission to do so.] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: RE: [AML] Agents/Editors Open to Mormon Material Date: 06 Mar 2001 11:03:22 -0700 We would welcome such a donation at any point you see fit to send it. = Please earmark it as "agent/editor subscriptions" so the treasurer knows = how to credit it. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 2:57 PM > As promised, following is the list of agents and editors who read my > query letter about "Confessions of a Mormon Missionary" and asked for > the manuscript, indicating an openness to Mormon-oriented material. Thank you Chris. > By the way, someone offered the AML enough of a donation to put all > the following people on Irreantum's mailing list for a year to receive > copies, so maybe some of these agents and editors will scan issues for > interesting writers. I think this is a very noble and valuable undertaking and would be willing to donate toward extending the subscriptions past a year. Eileen eileens99@bigplanet.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] LUND, _Kingdom and the Crown_ Date: 06 Mar 2001 15:31:06 -0700 katie@aros.net wrote: > Interesting. I probably should have guessed it would be like this. I have > been leery of picking up this book because I really don't want to see the > Savior fictionalized to the extent that Joseph Smith et. al. are in _The Work > and the Glory_. But I should've known Lund would stick to his facts like this. Then I recommend you never read my book on the life of Christ (when it appears sometime in the nebulous future). I can't think of a reason to write a book like that if I'm just going to present the Savior everyone can read about in the New Testament. What would be the point? -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 06 Mar 2001 19:31:12 -0700 Ivan, I listed these two novels as Adolescent simply because I can't keep them on the shelves in my Junior high School classes. They are among the abosultely MOST popular novels with teenage boys. Of course, I've read and enjoyed them as well. Lu Ann Ivan Angus Wolfe wrote: > > > > Since you asked, some books and category divisions to consider: > > > > Adolescent Novel: > > > Ender's Shadow by Orson Scott Card > > Shadow of the Hegemon by Orson Scott Card > . > > > > Lu Ann Staheli > > > I disagree with LuAnn - but I understand why she would list these under > Adolescent - most libraries (ignorantly, I must assume) place all Science > Fiction in Juvenile or Adolescent Novels. > > But considering the themes dealt with, and the violence inherent in Card's work, > to classify them as "Adolescent" would be to seriously shortcount them. > > Why is it that serious, adult-oriented (not porn, though) Science Fiction is > often labeled as Adolescent? > --Ivan Wolfe > > - > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brent J. Rowley" Subject: Re: [AML] Children's/YA Lit by Mormon Authors Date: 06 Mar 2001 19:34:27 -0700 With all the hoopla going on about adults reading YA books, I just HAD to share with you some snipets of an e-mail I received--coincidentally today--from an adult reader. Again, this is from an ADULT who isn't ashamed to be caught reading a YOUTH book. I quote: " . . . The first thing I want to say is thank you. You have written another excellent book. Your books make me suffer from such a contradiction. I don't want them to end because they are so captivating, yet I want to finish it so I can see how it all turns out and learn what happens. I read it all today. I'm glad this one was longer than the other two. There was more to enjoy. :) " . . . The way you write about how Bart [the youth protagonist] feels when he goes 'inviz' is really interesting. When you describe the feelings the characters have (Bart for Rosh [the girlfriend], the bearded construction worker when he frees Bart), it is so intense that I get choked up. I'm still trying to figure out how you got me so involved that in about 2 sentences I developed a lump in my throat. " . . . Sometimes I wouldn't pick the book up because I knew I would be interrupted by something or another and didn't want to spoil the mood. It's such a special story that I wanted to be able to savor it properly. " . . . You had me so enthralled that as I travelled home on the light rail train (which I take almost daily), you caused me to miss - for only the second time in my life- my stop. I looked up when I realized that the train had come to the end of the line and wasn't going any further. I waited until the train heading back to my stop arrived and then returned to my stop. I appreciate you accepting the blame for that. :) " . . . Your writing is wonderful and moves me. . . . Your books make me laugh, get choked up, and think more spiritually. " . . . keep doing what you're doing. Thank you again for a work that moves me both spiritually and emotionally. Have a great day." ADULT letters like these are what make it all worth doing. -BJ Rowley * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Have you gone "Inviz" lately? Check out "Missing Children," Volume Three in the "Light Traveler Adventure Series." Exciting and Action-Packed Out-Of-Body Adventure -- by BJ Rowley http://www.bjrowley.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 06 Mar 2001 19:40:47 -0700 Scott, Thanks for you answers. How can we help? Adolescent literature is my passion in life. I'd be happy to continue to send you titles, etc. Have you contacted Chris Crowe at BYU? He is the local guru of Adolescent Literature and certainly keeps abreast of the LDS authors in this category. What publication years will you be considering next year for the awards? Lu Ann - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] In Defense of YA Literature Date: 06 Mar 2001 19:51:29 -0700 Sharlee, Holes is a great read! I use it to snag all my non-reading students; but I also used it with my adult book club. The women L O V E D it, as do my students. There is such fabulous Adolescent literature available. In publisher's eyes. a Middle reader novel is intended for audiences age 8-12 and include chapter books of 90-168 pages with a lighter subject matter. Young adult novels are intended for ages 12+. They run 150+ pages and can deal with intense issues such as abuse, sexuality, and violence. That and the fact that my Jr. High students love them is why I classified the Ender's books as Adolescent novels. Lu Ann - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Media Find LDS Name Request Unpersuasive: Salt Lake Tribune Date: 06 Mar 2001 21:46:29 -0600 6Mar01 N1 [From Mormon-News] Media Find LDS Name Request Unpersuasive SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- An article in today's Salt Lake Tribune says that most media are either refusing or studying the LDS Church's request that they stop using the terms "Mormon Church" and "LDS Church." Quoting editors with the Associated Press and New York Times as well as several Utah newspapers, the Tribune's Bob Mims was only able to find acceptance of the stance from the LDS Church-owned Deseret News, which nevertheless indicated that it had not yet formally adopted the style change. The Associated Press, whose opinion may be the most important because of its widespread acceptance, including at Provo, Utah's Daily Herald, doesn't expect any rush to change its policy. The newspaper cooperative's stylebook, edited by Norm Goldstein, is considered the style bible at most smaller newspapers in the U.S. Goldstein says that he has reviewed the situation many times, but stick with the term "Mormon" because of clarity. "They've sent us material before on this," he said. "We've looked at it, and then decided that since they are still generally known as Mormons, we would stay with Mormon church and then use the full name of the church on second reference. ... This doesn't really clarify anything." The Tribune itself reacted only by complying with the request that the Church not be called the "Mormon Church." Editor James E. Shelledy instituted a new policy Thursday, and explained that policy to Mims Monday, "A church may determine its official name, and the news media ought formally to recognize it. However, The Tribune will continue to use 'LDS' as the abbreviated version of, or second reference to, the official name of the institution." He also explained why the Tribune would not use the preferred 'Church of Jesus Christ.' "Using 'Church of Jesus Christ' as a second reference is akin to the FBI asking everyone to refer to the agency as the 'Federal Bureau.' It is too vague, and 'LDS' is too deeply ingrained among Mormons and non-Mormons alike." The New York Times' assistant managing editor Al Siegal said that the newspaper would study the issue, but that 'informed' usage was their guide, "We need to study it and observe what the actual practice is in informed American usage," Siegal said. "We are sympathetic to their wishes, but we need to consider other factors along with that. . . . Waiting and seeing is usually a good thing in determining style." Among other Utah media, the Ogden Standard-Examiner's city editor, Pat Bean, expressed skepticism, "They've been known as the 'Mormon church' forever," she said. "We've ignored what they've said on this so far, but if pressed, I might be willing to not call them the 'Mormon church.' But this 'Church of Jesus Christ' deal, that's something else." The Provo Daily Herald indicated it would continue to stick with the Associated Press Stylebook, while the St George Spectrum indicated that it was waiting for the appointment of a new managing editor before addressing the issue. While not mentioned in the article, BYU's Daily Universe seems to have adopted the policy suggested by the Church, from the usage Mormon News has seen in recent articles. Meanwhile, reaction by the public to the request has been mixed. A letter to the editor of the Salt Lake Tribune calls the use of the term "Church of Jesus Christ" offensive to evangelical Christians, saying "When the LDS Church claims the title "The Church of Jesus Christ" it is sticking its collective finger in the eye of every other Christian church, and declaring itself to be the universal church." Some Mormon News' subscribers also reacted negatively to our attempts to use the title, one saying that the term sounded " arrogant and insulting." Despite our experimentation with following the Church's wishes, Mormon News' own policy has not changed, and we expect to issue a statement on the style issue in the next few days. Source: 'LDS Church' Still Term Of Choice for Newspapers Salt Lake Tribune 6Mar01 N1 http://www.sltrib.com/03062001/utah/77136.htm By Bob Mims: Salt Lake Tribune Offensive Name Change Salt Lake Tribune 6Mar01 ON1 http://www.sltrib.com/03062001/public_f/public_f.htm By Christopher Erickson >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Eugene England Update Date: 07 Mar 2001 04:59:57 -0600 At 19:28 01-03-01 -0500, you wrote: >AML, > I received this series of posts detailing Gene England's > condition from >another list, written by his son. It consists of three installments, in >reverse chronological >order, as is typical of email posts. > >Merlyn Clarke > >[MOD: This information is being forwarded with permission.] Any news since this? -- Ronn! :) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Awards at the Conference Date: 07 Mar 2001 08:44:43 -0700 LuAnnStaheli wrote: >Thanks for you answers. How can we help? Adolescent literature is my >passion in life. I'd be happy to continue to send you titles, etc. Just let me know what's published, and/or where I can go to research other titles published by or for Mormons. Your lists of good titles are just what I need to solicit copies from the publishers and will make it possible for me to get those titles to the judges. Thank you. >Have you contacted Chris >Crowe at BYU? He is the local guru of Adolescent Literature and >certainly keeps abreast of the LDS authors in this category. Haven't yet, but I will soon. >What publication years will you be considering next year for the awards? I will solicit titles published in calendar 1999, 2000, and 2001. I suspect we'll make at least two awards--one for Children's, one for YA (of course that depends on what the judge recommends and what the budget will allow). Which awards me offer (and how many) depends entirely on the feedback from the judge. I can't promise we'll make more than two awards for 1999-2001, but I can suggest that I see at least two awards coming out of that timeframe. This may become an annual award (if the judge so recommends, and the board agrees). There appear to be enough titles published to suggest an annual. I will run that idea past the board and see what happens. Some categories, such as Drama and Children's/YA (I keep wanting to abbreviate that to CYA, but that may not be the best of all possible acronyms) appear to be publishing many worthy titles, and it appears that we need to consider making these an annual award. Others, such as Criticism, seem to be in a downturn and may need to be changed from a regular award schedule to a special award offered only occasionally. I'll discuss all of this with the board the next time we meet. Thanks again for your passion on this issue. With your help, I believe we can effectively recognize some of the excellent work being done in this category. Scott Parkin - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rose Green" Subject: Re: [AML] LUND, _Kingdom and the Crown_ Date: 07 Mar 2001 11:08:33 -0600 > Interesting. I probably should have guessed it would be like this. I >have been leery of picking up this book because I really don't want to see >the Savior fictionalized to the extent that Joseph Smith et. al. are in >_The Work and the Glory_. But I should've known Lund would stick to his >facts like this. Funny you say that. I disliked _The Work and the Glory_ series (okay, so I read first book and was too bored to finish the series) precisely because I felt like Lund *didn't* elaborate on Joseph Smith beyond what I could already read in church history/scriptures. Rose Green _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] LUND, _Kingdom and the Crown_ Date: 07 Mar 2001 09:16:16 -0700 D. Michael Martindale wrote: > katie@aros.net wrote: > > >> Interesting. I probably should have guessed it would be like this. I have >> been leery of picking up this book because I really don't want to see the >> Savior fictionalized to the extent that Joseph Smith et. al. are in _The Work >> and the Glory_. But I should've known Lund would stick to his facts like this. > > > Then I recommend you never read my book on the life of Christ (when it > appears sometime in the nebulous future). I can't think of a reason to > write a book like that if I'm just going to present the Savior everyone > can read about in the New Testament. What would be the point? It's not the issue that you would be presenting the Savior that is in the New Testament. That being is infinitely interpretable by just about anyone. What you would be battling against is a person' own personal concept of what Christ is. For instance, to me, Christ is the ultimate hippy, rebelling against the status quo, calling the religious leaders of his days hypocrites. He was a rebel in the truest sense, who was opposed to organized religion as a concept, not just the organized religion of his day. His major message was peace and love of all mankind, even those who believed and acted differently than his followers do. I can quote you numerous passages to "prove" that. Another could quote you numerous passages that could "prove" that Jesus was the ultimate business man, organizing a church with a mind-numbing heirarchy, preaching loyalty to the status quo, and preaching moderation in all things. Such is the cross that the LDS writer must constantly bear, if he deigns to write about prophets and gods. Someone, somewhere, is not going to agree with your assessment of things, believing that their own personal understanding of that person is superior to yours. But, please, don't let that sway you. Write it anyway. Thom - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gideon Burton Subject: [AML] BYU Symposium on Books for Young Readers Date: 07 Mar 2001 10:19:10 -0700 Since the topic of Children's and YA Literature has been popular on AML-List recently, I thought some list participants might be interested in the upcoming Symposium on Books for Young Readers at BYU to be held July 13-14. Those interested can visit the website for more details, http://ce.byu.edu/cw/childlit/ Gideon Burton - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: [AML] YA or Not? (was: Awards at the Conference) Date: 07 Mar 2001 11:28:17 -0700 (MST) > I listed these two novels as Adolescent simply because I can't keep them on the > shelves in my Junior high School classes. They are among the abosultely MOST popular > novels with teenage boys. Of course, I've read and enjoyed them as well. > Lu Ann I'm glad you read and enjoyed them too - but I still stand by not labeling them as Adoslescent - mainly because most adults feel that Adolescent literature (and Science Fiction - since that is usually labelled as Adolescent/Juvenile) is something you eventually grow out of (and those who don't are just su SF geeks who wear Kilingon outfits at conventions). Since I am a crusader against librarians who always label all SF as Adolescent and shelve it accordingly, this is a touchy subject with me. --Ivan - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: [AML] Update: Gene England Date: 07 Mar 2001 10:37:51 -0700 My mother had knee surgery a couple of weeks ago, and attended the hospital Sacrament meeting last week. Gene England and his family were there, and Gene bore his testimony. Mom said it was moving and articulate. Gene spoke of the atonement and the miracle that he's still with us. She said it's a bit of a shock to see him. (Charlotte told me the scar on his head is a backwards question mark--which could have all sorts of symbolism.) But it amazing that Gene could be up enough to speak so soon after such a serious surgery. Truly a miracle. On another note, I've been watching Doug and DonLu Thayer quietly serve the Englands. I've noticed Doug serving others, like Bruce Jorgensen's mother when she was in a local care center. Bruce (Young) and I talked about how quietly the Thayers go about their service. No fanfare. I am more and more impressed with them. (I've always been impressed, of course, but this is a new level.) Bruce said that we in the English department are likely surrounded by many, many spiritual heroes like the Thayers. We don't necessarily know it, because they aren't blowing any trumpets. We just feel honored to be associated with y'all. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] AML Awards Date: 07 Mar 2001 15:25:24 -0600 I'd like to thank several people: Sharlee, for raising the issue and sending on the information about YA/juvenile publications (and promising future installments); Rick Walton and Chris Crowe, who compiled the lists; and particularly Scott Parkin, for being so open about the awards process. I hope that we can continue to keep the pipelines of communication open on this issue. (By the way, Sharlee, the next time you interact with Rick, tell him we miss him on the List! And Chris is certainly welcome to join us, too.) I admit to being somewhat dismayed by the report that AML "isn't interested" in juvenile literature and doesn't appreciate it. I hope they aren't speaking based on any particular experience with AML-List. I can't speak to the AML's past, and I'm sure there are individual members of AML who don't have any particular interest in juvenile literature; but I honestly think that on this AML-sponsored forum, there's as much interest in juvenile literature as any branch of Mormon lit (I include mainstream literary). I don't think I've *ever* seen anyone write on this List that juvenile literature isn't worthy of attention, and if they did, Sharlee (and plenty of others of us) would jump on such a claim in a minute. Part of the reason I wince a little at this reaction is that there's no one I know who has been more consistent in the defense of "non-highbrow" literature (of all different kinds, ranging from sf&f to children's lit to sentimental home literature) and its worth than Scott. I also know that (like everyone else connected with AML) his work is entirely volunteer, squeezed out (like all of us) between the cracks of multiple commitments, virtually all of which rank higher on the earning money/spending time with family/etc. scale than what he does for AML. I really appreciate Sharlee for offering to help, rather than criticizing Scott (and the rest of us) for not doing more. One of the things I've realized since becoming AML-List Moderator and becoming a "staff" member of the AML board is just how much work--all of it uncompensated--goes into the running of AML, the entire purpose of which is to promote Mormon letters. That, and how much change there is over the course of even a year in AML board composition. I think AML is, at least at this point in its evolution, much less monolithic than people outside the organization may tend to think. There's plenty of room for people to affect the organization's direction simply by getting in and working. As it happens, I do have some further queries to Scott and suggestions about the award process. I'm sure this has been explained before, but does the judge for a particular category see all the works published in that category, or is there a kind of prescreening process? And if so, how is that prescreening conducted? I ask in part because I think AML-List could play a valuable role not just in generating a list of publishing information titles, as Sharlee has graciously (been) volunteered to do, but in having people report the books they think are particularly worthy of note. I don't want to turn us into a forum for politicking at awards time, but recommendations of books we have read and enjoyed in the field of Mormon letter are always appropriate. And particularly in an area such as children's/juvenile/YA/adolescent literature, where there are so many publications, I think it would be hard for any one person to read and evaluate everything, so I'd imagine there *has* to be some kind of screening process, whether it's conducted by Scott as coordinator or by the category judge. Second: Can you explain what the policy is with regard to the category judges: how they're chosen, whether their names are publicly known, etc? I don't think I've ever heard a category judge named; if there's a policy that they remain anonymous, I can understand why that might be the case, but it probably does contribute to the perception of AML as some kind of "them" when it comes to the awards. Third: Would it be helpful to have authors contact their publishers to have a copy of their book sent to you? I know that you mentioned finding out what titles were out there, but I assume that after that's done, it's still a lengthy process to actually get the books, particularly if they aren't put out by regional publishers. I'd like to close with another thanks to Sharlee for working to open up channels of communication. And please, pass on my invitation to join AML-List to any writers of juvenile literature who have an interest in discussing Mormon lit in all its permutations. Jonathan Langford AML-List Moderator P.S. I did notice a couple of omissions in the list Rick Walton sent. I think Dave Wolverton has had several juvenile Star Wars books published, and possibly others. I don't know if any of Tracy Hickman's books count as "officially" juvenile... And I know there are others that don't come to mind right now. Simply one more evidence of how hard it is to keep track of all the far-flung permutations of the Mormon writing world. jlangfor@pressenter.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Turk325@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Update: Gene England Date: 07 Mar 2001 16:39:30 EST In a message dated 3/7/01 2:07:57 PM, margaret_young@byu.edu writes: << I've been watching Doug and DonLu Thayer quietly serve the Englands. >> Doug Thayer has always been a hero of mine. When I came home from my mission in 1966, one of the few classes open at BYU was Brother Thayer's "Introduction to Literature." He "converted" me to be an English major. Years later, when my oldest son was ready to go to the Y, we--my son and I--stopped by to pay respects and appreciation. He remembered me. He picked up our conversations as if no time had passed. He is a caring, brilliant, thinking man. Kurt Weiland. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: katie@aros.net Subject: Re: [AML] LUND, _Kingdom and the Crown_ Date: 07 Mar 2001 14:53:49 -0700 (MST) Quoting "D. Michael Martindale" : > Then I recommend you never read my book on the life of Christ (when it > appears sometime in the nebulous future). I can't think of a reason to > write a book like that if I'm just going to present the Savior > everyone > can read about in the New Testament. What would be the point? > Well, okay. I might consider reading yours. :) But if _Kingdom and the Crown_ is anything like _The Work and the Glory_-- There was a lot that bugged me in TW&TG, like how the Steeds just happened to be best friends with all the historical figures, and how most of them were so happy in all their trials and so willing to do whatever was required of them. And how Joseph Smith was suddenly always there to help them solve their personal problems, and how the characters were often quite wooden, etc. etc. etc. That being said, I must say that I ended up reading the whole series. My mother-in-law lent me her set so I felt obligated to read them. And I actually enjoyed it. In order to do that, I had to just not let the flaws that I saw bother me. There is plenty to like about the series, how it shows what things were like and what the Saints went through in the early times, and the plot twists Lund throws in to shake up the lives of the Steeds. I like how some of the family members have struggles with various aspects of the gospel, or with moving, or whatever. I especially like how Joshua Steed basically takes the whole series to mess around, repent, and become converted, rather than having everything tied up for him at the end of book 1. Overall I enjoyed the experience. Some parts were really page-turners. I'm just not sure I want to go through that again (overlooking so many little things that bug me), especially when it involves a fictionalization of the life of Christ in a way that we know many readers will take as scripture. Some people have gotten pretty weird about TW&TG. Maybe I'm not as concerned about my own reaction to reading TK&TC as I am about other people's. --Katie Parker - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] In Defense of YA Literature (was: Awards at the Conference) Date: 07 Mar 2001 18:37:43 -0700 May I make a reply to Margaret's post in defense of the awards? One of the reasons Scott didn't "do" YA this year is because he wanted to be fair. There was a book I discussed with him--I wanted to give it the YA award, but he hadn't looked at everything! And guess what! That meant three thousand books (well, I did exaggerate a little). It's not like Scott Parkin is being paid to go to all of this trouble. It is getting to be a bigger job every year. I remember when I judged fiction. I had about thirty novels and twelve short story collections. How could I read all of them? (I did look at the first ten pages of everything.) I hope this influx of good people--the messages from LuAnn, and others, will serve to reveal a good chair who will understand children's work (which some of us are less than well versed in). Also, I have wanted to mention that finally (after the AML address, etc., plus hoopla concerning my own publication) I have had a chance to read Margaret Young's ONE MORE RIVER TO CROSS. I couldn't believe it, I was so thrilled! What a fabulous book. After I had read a few pages, I took notes of all of the most wonderful language events that occur in this novel! The writing is impeccable. I haven't read anything I enjoyed so much on the Mormon market--and it's PERFECT for Mormons! What a blessing to the roster of AML awards. It's wonderful, Margaret. And I am SO PICKY. I can pick apart all those other "famous" serialists. But all I could do with that book was stare at the page in awe and write down all of the little treasures! Thank you so much for an impossible job of research, and for a willing ear bent to the tongue of Darius Gray! I stand in awe, totally! Bless you! (And wow, would I be lucky to be YOUR Twin! Although something rather tells me I have a ways to go!) I'm so proud of you! Many kudos! Marilyn Brown ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:35 AM Conference) > At the AML Conference in 1999 (?), Dean Hughes made some wonderful comments > about authors of children's books (he being one, though he is currently most > famous for the _Children of the Promise_ series). I wonder if we could get a > summary of his acceptance speech for novel given in 1999 (check when his novel > won). It was funny, poignant, and really spoke to the issue children's writers > confront in being considered "less than" writers of adult fiction. > > [MOD: I'd certainly be willing to post such a thing on the List, if (a) > someone can get it to me in plain text format, and (b) we get permission to > do so.] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Odyssey Channel to Repeat "Voyage of the Unicorn": Kent Larsen Date: 07 Mar 2001 21:16:49 -0600 Larsen 6Mar01 A2 [From Mormon-News] Odyssey Channel to Repeat "Voyage of the Unicorn" NEW YORK, NEW YORK -- The Odyssey channel will give an encore presentation of "The Voyage of the Unicorn" on Saturday, March 10th at 2 pm EST. The four hour film is an adaptation of LDS artist and BYU professor James C. Christensen's classic children's book "The Voyage of the Basset." The Hallmark Entertainment production premiered last Friday and Saturday evenings on Odyssey. Both the book and the film tell the story of widowed mythology scholar Alan Aisling and his two daughters as they struggle to deal with the death of their mother and wife. In the process, they find themselves in a fantasy world of trolls, dwarves and fairies in an attempt to save the fairy kingdom from the trolls. Their journey also teaches them that the only constant of life is change, and, led by a simple and engaging message, the ship's motto, "Credendo Vides" - by believing, one sees, the family goes through a transformation to a more serene reality. Like all the content on the Odyssey channel, "The Voyage of the Unicorn" is billed as suitable for families. See also: Odyssey Encore Presentation Voyage of the Unicorn ODYSSEY Channel 6Mar01 A2 http://www.odysseychannel.com/voyage/home.html >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: [AML] Depictions of Christ (was: LUND, _Kingdom and the Crown_) Date: 07 Mar 2001 20:23:15 -0600 >>D. Michael: >>Then I recommend you never read my book on the life of Christ (when it >>appears sometime in the nebulous future). I can't think of a reason to >>write a book like that if I'm just going to present the Savior everyone >>can read about in the New Testament. What would be the point? >Thom: >It's not the issue that you would be presenting the Savior that is in the >New Testament. That being is infinitely interpretable by just about >anyone. What you would be battling against is a person' own personal >concept of what Christ is. Okay, my turn. It's possible to learn a lot from another person's personal concept of Him, even if it's far different from our own, or even deemed to be an incorrect or flawed concept. I did, this weekend. And so I agree it's a worthwhile literary venture to undertake, even if others disagree with you. A few days ago I watched a completely fascinating fictional movie on the life of Christ, which I'd often passed over before. It was absolutely, breathtakingly beautifully filmed, powerfully moving and thrilling. I was spiritually uplifted and edified and brought closer to the Savior. It's also rated R (justly so) and was made by Martin Scorsese, and got horribly bad, bad press. Guessed yet? Yes, it was _The Last Temptation of Christ._ I became interested in seeing it only after watching Willem Defoe talk about playing Jesus on his "Inside the Actor's Studio" interview. Because of the bad press, I had always assumed this portrayal of Jesus' life would seriously offend me and I'd rather not see that. I thought it was made to poke fun at or mock him. After watching Defoe's interview, I realized the intent of the movie was to explore the life of Christ, Scorsese's "testimony" of him if you will, and a labor of love. Those involved with the project were saddened by the bad press because many people would now never go see a beautiful movie. (I was one of those people.) This movie is NOT, repeat NOT, for everyone. It may well easily offend members of the Church, though I was not. The doctrine and assumptions made are quite obviously flawed from what we know to be true through the restored Gospel. There is full nudity strewn throughout (most of it, IMO, not gratuitous), as well as two brief sex scenes (questionably gratuitous). There's also a lot of blood. In addition, Jesus is portrayed as not really knowing who he is or what his mission and purpose are throughout most of the film, which I disagree were the case. The scourging and crucifixion scenes (among others) are also very accurate to the descriptions I've read about; if you have a weak stomach for scenes like this (i.e. if you have to shut your eyes during the Lamb of God Church video) this is probably not for you. Those are reasons someone might want to avoid seeing it. In the beginning of the film, it states that it is not intended to portray the Gospels, but is a fictional exploration of the constant struggle we all have between the "spirit and the flesh." And it certainly isn't a representation of the Gospels. It is highly, heavily symbolic. And, as I said, many of the liberties it takes are obviously flawed or incorrect from what I personally feel to be true. So, sure, it's very fictional. But I felt I gained much insight from this film, filtering it through the lens of my Mormon eye, and I'm glad I took the chance on it. Here are some reasons I appreciated it. I've felt all the representations of the Passion of Christ that I've seen previously were much too sanitized and whitewashed. I've been hungry for something more historically accurate. (A lot of people I talk to don't feel that way, so maybe I'm odd.) But I'm primarily a visual learner, and seeing these things depicted with gritty reality only increased my gratitude for the incredible amount of pain He suffered. It was so visually real that it was like being there. It looked like the torture that it was. Nothing could be more thrilling than the final 10 minutes of the movie, when Jesus succeeds in defeating his fictional "last temptation" (which is longing for home, family, and a normal life, something I found not at all blasphemous), realizes he *does* want to be the Messiah, and gives his life as a completely *willing* sacrifice for the world. It was absolute triumph. I can think of no other way to put it. Triumph. I was left awestruck by the magnitude of his sacrifice for us. The emotional power of this movie helped me appreciate more fully how difficult the Atonement must have been to accomplish. All the Scriptures say it was, from the Gospels to Doctrine & Covenants section 20. I was simply amazed. Has anyone else here seen it? Am I alone in my interpretation and response? Was it only the bigger budget and better acting, directing and producing it had, that made it so powerful for me? I don't know. But I do know I gained more spiritually from this fictional, flawed representation, than I have from simpler, more accurate-to-Scripture depictions of the life of Christ I've seen on film. So, after watching this incredible piece of filmmaking, I am even more a proponent for fictional portrayals. The Scriptures are open to us to read and interpret. What do we have Sunday School for, if not to share our different insights into what they mean? We can check the Scriptures for doctrine and accuracy. How is a fictional portrayal of God, honest to one's individual testimony and made with the intent to glorify His name, in any way wrong? Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] AML Awards Date: 07 Mar 2001 20:55:18 -0700 Jonathan Langford wrote: >I'm sure this has been explained before, but does >the judge for a particular category see all the works published in that >category, or is there a kind of prescreening process? And if so, how is >that prescreening conducted? A combination of things happens in the screening process. First, I make an open request of the LDS publishers and ask them to send me copies of the books that they consider most worthy of consideration for an award. In this case the publisher screens their own material. I send all titles I receive to the appropriate judge. Second, the judge for a category is chosen on the basis of his/her specific capability to judge in that category, and on their interest in that particular form. We ask a lot of our judges, and ask them to be active in requesting titles for consideration. I try to provide a baseline of material from the known LDS magazines and publishers, then expect the judges to use their own knowledge of the field to request specific additional titles. I then contact the publishers and ask them to send review copies. Some categories, such as Drama, are very hard to solicit copies of and we tend to rely more on the qualified judge's own means to get knowledge about available titles. Third, I canvas the AML-List for titles that come up in discussions and add them to my solicit list. I then get copies and send those pieces to the judges. This list ends up being one of the most important resources I have for finding good titles and getting them to the judges. This year's novel winner, for example had come out early enough in the year that Shadow Mountain forgot that they hadn't already sent me one. When the novel was discussed on this list, it reminded me to get a copy. The same thing happened with this year's short story winner. Darrell Spencer's collection came out in March from an Eastern publisher, and it wasn't until an announcement went out over the list that the collection had won the Flannery O'Connor Award that I even became aware of it. I ended up buying a copy because I couldn't get it from the publisher soon enough. So the discussion on this list is critical to the awards process--not because anyone can lobby for an award (you can't; I run interference for the judges and I have no real influence on who actually wins), but because this is where I get a lot of the titles I send to the judges. So speak up when you find out about a good work of Mormon lit. Your voice may be the one that gets a title considered for the award. >I ask in part because I think AML-List could >play a valuable role not just in generating a list of publishing >information titles, as Sharlee has graciously (been) volunteered to do, but >in having people report the books they think are particularly worthy of >note. Absolutely. In fact, I think this list can make my job easier and list of titles considered for awards more extensive. This makes the scope broader, and the value of the award more significant. >I don't want to turn us into a forum for politicking at awards time, >but recommendations of books we have read and enjoyed in the field of >Mormon letter are always appropriate. People can politic me all they want, but I don't select the winners; I just get copies for the judges. We don't announce the judges' names for precisely this reason. The judges are often working writers who don't deserve to be hounded by would-be award winners, or to be second-guessed by their friends or colleagues for passing over certain titles. The judges' only compensation for their efforts is that they get to keep their copies of the books and magazines that I send them. They don't deserve the heat that poor losers can generate (and there have been some in our nice little community). If the judges want to announce themselves to the public, that's just fine and they can deal with whatever comes of it. The secrecy is to protect the judges, not to hoodwink the public or protect some secret society. >Second: Can you explain what the policy is with regard to the category >judges: how they're chosen, whether their names are publicly known, etc? See above for a discussion of publicizing judges' names. Potential judges are selected by members of the AML board based on their qualifications to judge in that category, and are selected by consensus of the board. I then go down the list for each category and start contacting. When a candidate agrees to judge, I move on to the next category. Judges are almost never members of the AML board, though at times judges have either become board members or have recently stopped being board members. Judges are often recent winners in their category. Judges are usually working writers in the form the judge. While a judge can't award their own work in a category, a judge in one category can be awarded in a different category. Sometimes a judge flakes out on me (happened twice this year). It's no one's business who those judges are. Fortunately, exceptional people were able to come in very late in the process and make excellent choices under difficult conditions. >Third: Would it be helpful to have authors contact their publishers to have >a copy of their book sent to you? Yes! Please! Absolutely! Especially with non-LDS publishers. I need two copies of the book, and it would be wonderful to find out what your publicist's name is, as well, for future reference when soliciting titles. Send me an e-mail letting me know a title is coming, then ship two copies of the book to: Scott Parkin 475 East 560 South Santaquin, Utah 84655 The main problem with the eastern publishers is that we often don't make their radar screen of priorities, so my requests for copies often take weeks or months to be fulfilled (along with a fair amount of time on the phone reminding them), or they aren't fulfilled at all. I've gone out and purchased a fair number of titles very late in the process because a publisher hasn't gotten me copies yet. >I'd like to close with another thanks to Sharlee for working to open up >channels of communication. And please, pass on my invitation to join >AML-List to any writers of juvenile literature who have an interest in >discussing Mormon lit in all its permutations. Hear, hear! Thank you, Sharlee, for the wonderful lists of titles. And thank you, Jonathan, for facilitating the discussion. It's the efforts of folks like yourself that make the awards possible, and that ensure that the awards are meaningful. Thank you for your effort and your passion. We need as much of that as we can get! Scott Parkin - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jana bouck remy" Subject: [AML] Reviewer List Date: 07 Mar 2001 20:47:25 -0800 If your name appears on this list, please send me your snail mail address. As always, thanks to everyone who participates in the AML-List Review Program! Jana The Kingdom and the Crown Andrew Hall Second Wind Laraine Wilkins One More River to Cross D. Michael Sarah Cathy Gileadi Wilson Praise to the Man Terry Jeffress On This Day in the Church Larry Jackson Joseph F Smith, Portrait of a Prophet Jeff Needle The Wine Dark Sea of Grass D. Michael Martindale Haven Katie Parker "Well-behaved women rarely make history" --Laurel Thatcher Ulrich - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: harlowclark@juno.com Subject: [AML] Call for Funny Pomes (pennyeach) for Irreantum Date: 07 Mar 2001 23:17:35 -0800 Ear-eye-ant-hums upcoming ish-shoe is about HughMore, so we are looking for well-crafted funny poetry, or satirical verse, or other good stuff like epigrams, even stuff that might cause folks in Ogden to Nash their teeth. Even good limericks (expeshully if you could find a really original rhyme with Nantucket). We're trying to get everything in by the 15th--so if you have something worth while, submit it to harlowclark@juno.com and our discerning staff will look it over. H. Soderborg C. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: harlowclark@juno.com Subject: Re: [AML] Year in Review, Pt. 4 (LDS Web Magazines) Date: 07 Mar 2001 23:05:46 -0800 According to Juno I have 238 unread messages (237 now that I opened Andrew Hall's Fri, 26 Jan 2001,) and am valiantly attempting to read everything, so I was fascinated (and delighted (enough to come out of my semi-perpetual (though not from lack of things to say) lurkdon) to see the following comment: > The most enjoyable read so far is Marvin Payne's column, "Backstage > Glances". It sounds like it might be about the theater, but so far > they have been mostly about the problem of figuring what to write a > column about. Payne indulges (at least here) in the Harlow Clark > extended-and-imbedded-parenthetical-comments school of writing, and > is pretty funny. Hm. I don't know if I like this idea of starting a school. You know the saying, Those who can, teach, those who can't, try and write brilliantly enough to trick people into thinking they can teach. (Hm, I've just listed two things I'm not good at. What do those who can't fake it do?) > Be aware that Meridian also contains a lot of conservative social > commentary. It has a constantly updated news bar, with stories and > opinions taken largely from what appear to be fundamentalist and > conservative news outlets. I'm always astonished at how many LDS are simaltaneously offended by Conservative Christian claims that we are not Christian (or Chrustian in the words of that wonderful glass-eye-and-wooden-leg-stealing Bible salesman in Flannery O'Connor's "Good Country People") and enthralled by Conservative Christian social doctrine, as if there were no connection between the rejection and the doctrine. > Anti-UN commentary is especially > frequent, not only from the national news stories, but also stories > about or by Richard Wilkins, our own home-grown anti-UN > activist who has gotten a lot of institutional support from BYU. > I have mixed feelings about Wilkins' positions, but I thought his > recent Meridian column was totally whacked out. If the > International Criminal Court treaty goes through, the Pope might > be in danger of arrest for his support of the institution of > marriage—Puh-leeze. What a lovely opportunity to bring up something I've often thought aobut but never mentioned. I sometimes wonder whether extremism isn't embedded in western philosophy. Consider a very common rhetorical tack, the reductio ad absurdum, where you take an idea as far as you can take it and show that the consequences of the idea are absurd. I've often wondered if this practice doesn't teach us to take all ideas we oppose and try to find the extreme consequences of them. One of the things from Jim Faulconer's hermeneutics classes that has been resonating in various ways for nigh 20 years is that all ideas, those we agree with and those we don't, have unintended consequences that don't show themselves for a good long time, and the unintended consequences are almost always things we wouldn't have any way of foreseeing. That is, the reductio ad absurdum may be particularly bad at showing us the consequences of an idea. We can guard against things that we recognize as dangerous, but it's harder to guard against things we don't think of as dangerous. I can teach my son that many of the mores he sees on TV are not our mores, and he accepts that; it's harder to teach him to resist the desire Pokemon, or Lady and the Tramp II or any video he pops in creates to buy more (and more expensive) things--NOW. > A new web magazine has appeared since my first column, called > Element: an e-journal of philosophy and theology > (http://www.nd.edu/~rpotter/element4.html). Is affiliated with the > e-mail list LDS-Phil, and edited by Dennis Potter, a professor at > UVSC. It is the web equivalent of a scholarly journal, rather > than a magazine. Its first issue is on the nature of God, and > includes five articles by scholarly authors, including James E. > Faulconer, Blake Ostler, and Eugene England. Well, now, isn't that gratifying. Mention Jim in my response and he turns up later in the post I'm responding to. I'm not going to click on the Read tab and see if he was actually in the original post. That would strip away the mystery. Well, that's enough rambling for tonight. Thanks for the overview of web-zines, Andrew. Harlow S. Clark ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] LUND, _Kingdom and the Crown_ Date: 08 Mar 2001 01:13:38 -0700 Thom Duncan wrote: > It's not the issue that you would be presenting the Savior that is in > the New Testament. That being is infinitely interpretable by just about > anyone. What you would be battling against is a person' own personal > concept of what Christ is. > Such is the cross that the LDS writer must constantly bear, if he deigns > to write about prophets and gods. Someone, somewhere, is not going to > agree with your assessment of things, believing that their own personal > understanding of that person is superior to yours. I wouldn't be bothered that others disagree with my interpretation (I'll no doubt disagree with theirs too). But I'm avoiding the Christmas rush and becoming irritated in advance at the people who will say I shouldn't write such things because my interpretation differs from theirs. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: [AML] An Amusing Anecdote Date: 08 Mar 2001 09:46:46 -0700 --============_-1228052486==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I thought the group might be amused by this story. In Wednesday's Daily Herald, I wrote a column that was a parody of small-town news ("so-and-so's kid won first prize in the spelling bee," etc.). The whole thing was ridiculous, with made-up names and even made-up Utah town names like Beaver Fork and Lamanville. One of the items in the article referred to the onslaught of historical fiction in the Mormon community. It read: -- If you want a real tear-jerker, find yourself a copy of LyniMar Peterson's "Pioneers to Glory Volume 1: Why Won't My Feet Stop Bleeding?" Peterson is a local author, from right here in Orvo, and this is the first part in a series of historical novels in which a fictitious family -- the Smiths -- joins the real-life Mormon pioneers of 1847. In the first book, Bob Smith and his family meet none other than Brigham Young! And I don't want to give anything away, but let's just say that by the end of the book, several of Bob Smith's unmarried daughters are a little less unmarried, if you know what I mean! By which I mean, Brigham Young marries them. I can't wait for volume 2, which LyniMar tells me will be called, "This is the Place ... for Love." -- (Yes, "LyniMar" is an intentional anagram of Marilyn, as in Marilyn Brown, noted local author.) Anyway, I got a phone call from Timp Bookstore. The woman said there was a customer there wanting to know who the publisher of this book was so that she could buy it! Bear in mind that while this excerpt of the column is clearly a joke by itself ("Why Won't My Feet Stop Bleeding?"?), the rest of the column made it even more obvious. But no matter how obvious a joke is, never underestimate people's capacity to not get it. Eric D. Snider -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." --============_-1228052486==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" An amusing anecdote
I thought the group might be amused by this story.

In Wednesday's Daily Herald, I wrote a column that was a parody of small-town news ("so-and-so's kid won first prize in the spelling bee," etc.). The whole thing was ridiculous, with made-up names and even made-up Utah town names like Beaver Fork and Lamanville.

One of the items in the article referred to the onslaught of historical fiction in the Mormon community. It read:

--

If you want a real tear-jerker, find yourself a copy of LyniMar Peterson's "Pioneers to Glory Volume 1: Why Won't My Feet Stop Bleeding?" Peterson is a local author, from right here in Orvo, and this is the first part in a series of historical novels in which a fictitious family -- the Smiths -- joins the real-life Mormon pioneers of 1847.

In the first book, Bob Smith and his family meet none other than Brigham Young! And I don't want to give anything away, but let's just say that by the end of the book, several of Bob Smith's unmarried daughters are a little less unmarried, if you know what I mean! By which I mean, Brigham Young marries them. I can't wait for volume 2, which LyniMar tells me will be called, "This is the Place ... for Love."

--

(Yes, "LyniMar" is an intentional anagram of Marilyn, as in Marilyn Brown, noted local author.)

Anyway, I got a phone call from Timp Bookstore. The woman said there was a customer there wanting to know who the publisher of this book was so that she could buy it!

Bear in mind that while this excerpt of the column is clearly a joke by itself ("Why Won't My Feet Stop Bleeding?"?), the rest of the column made it even more obvious.

But no matter how obvious a joke is, never underestimate people's capacity to not get it.

Eric D. Snider



--
***************************************************
Eric D. Snider
www.ericdsnider.com

"Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974."
--============_-1228052486==_ma============-- - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] Depictions of Christ (was: LUND, _Kingdom and the Crown_) Date: 08 Mar 2001 10:31:46 -0700 (MST) > Has anyone else here seen it? Am I alone in my interpretation and response? > Was it only the bigger budget and better acting, directing and producing it > had, that made it so powerful for me? I don't know. But I do know I gained > more spiritually from this fictional, flawed representation, than I have > from simpler, more accurate-to-Scripture depictions of the life of Christ > I've seen on film. > Linda Adams Basically, I thought it was a boring mess. To me it's an example of a film that would have dissapeared into obscurity if the Christian Right had ignored it. In my mind, the only real reason it won several awards was due to the fact the Religous right spent so much time complaining about it. If the pastors and activist groups had ignored it, I doubt most people would have even heard of it. I wasn't offened - I was bored and annoyed (though I did see an edited for TV version, maybe some nudity/sex would have helped). Since I admire Martin Scorsese, I was surprised he directed what I saw as a cinematice mess. But that's just me. --Ivan - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "LauraMaery (Gold) Post" Subject: [AML] YA or Not? (was: Awards at the Conference) Date: 08 Mar 2001 09:24:39 -0800 Ivan writes: > Why is it that serious, adult-oriented (not porn, though) Science Fiction is > often labeled as Adolescent? Allow me to offer a different paradigm: Ever watched a PG or a PG-13 movie? In theory, they're intended -- or at least rated -- for adolescent audiences. That doesn't stop adults from watching them. Why is it that we don't consider the adolescent section of the library the equivalent of PG and PG-13 movies? Sure, teenagers can read them. That doesn't stop adults from reading them too. What interests adolescents should also interest former adolescents. I've been offlist for such a long time, I suppose it's time to reintroduce myself...I'm LauraMaery Gold, I have moved to Seattle since I was last on the list, and I'm not worthy of being in y'all's eminent presence. You see, I write (gasp) non-fiction. But wait! Drop those stones. I ASPIRE to write fiction. And sometimes when I write non-fiction, I lie. Does that count? --lmg --------- WHAT DO WE DO? We homeschool! Here's how: "Homeschool Your Child for Free." Order your copy today, from Amazon.com. --------- . - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] YA or Not? (was: Awards at the Conference) Date: 08 Mar 2001 12:09:16 -0700 "LauraMaery (Gold) Post" wrote: > > I've been offlist for such a long time, I suppose it's time to reintroduce > myself...I'm LauraMaery Gold, I have moved to Seattle since I was last on > the list, and I'm not worthy of being > in y'all's eminent presence. You see, I write (gasp) non-fiction. Wrong. Laura writes about computers, as do I. And THAT's fiction writing! I often tell people I'm a full-time science fiction writer. Science because computers are science. Fiction because I'm trying to explain this alien life force called techonology to human beings, trying to give the impression that the dang things actually work the way we want them too. Thom - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: [AML] Audition Notice Date: 08 Mar 2001 13:03:48 -0700 For those actors in the Utah Valley vicinity: Actor's Repertory Theatre Ensemble announces a call for actors. Needed: Two men and one woman For STONES a new play by J. Scott Bronson Time: 10:00 am Place: BYU -- Harris Fine Arts Center -- Pardoe Green Room Prepare a one minute monologue or Read cold from the script or Contact me for sides STONES is a drama in two one-act plays on biblical themes. Rehearsals begin Monday, April 23 Play opens Friday, May 25 Closes Saturday, June 16 In the Chamber Theater at the Castle in Provo. Contact Scott @ 226-7876 bronsonjscott@juno.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gerald G Enos Subject: Re: [AML] YA or Not? (was: Awards at the Conference) Date: 08 Mar 2001 13:58:25 -0700 I don't usually say much on this list but I thought I would put my two cents worth in on the matter of YA fiction. Come in any time you want and look at my book self. (The two I actually can say that have MY books on them and not any other member of my family.) With the exception of the boxed set by Carl Sandburg on Abe Lincoln I'd say all of it could be classed as YA. It should be, most of them I aquired, or became interested in the Author, when I was a teenager. But that doesn't mean that they are not good reading today. I don't care how many times you read C.S. Lewis, you will always get something new out of it. And as someone pointed out YA means 12+. Well I am over 12, aren't we all? Konnie Enos ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] Children's/YA Lit by Mormon Authors Date: 08 Mar 2001 11:03:03 -0700 Thank you to Scott, Gideon, Jonathan, and others who have so graciously acknowledged the concerns and contributions of writers and supporters of children's/YA fiction. I have forwarded some of your posts on to the utahchildrenswriters listServ and I think your words have done much to diffuse the "heat" and to clarify the AML's attitude toward juvenile literature. Thank you, again. You are good folk! I genuinely feel blessed by your association. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Depictions of Christ Date: 08 Mar 2001 15:51:41 -0600 At 11:31 AM 3/8/01, you wrote: >I wasn't offened - I was bored and annoyed (though I did see an edited for TV >version, maybe some nudity/sex would have helped). Since I admire Martin >Scorsese, I was surprised he directed what I saw as a cinematice mess. > >But that's just me. > >--Ivan Hm, I wonder what-all they edited? I'm willing to bet you missed a lot. I think it would've been extremely difficult to cut this movie to be suitable for television without ending up with a "cinematic mess." (Or maybe it really was and I just didn't notice. That's entirely possible.) Even with everything you *can* show on TV these days, it would have been hard even to get it to a "TV-14" level and retain clarity. It's not the kind of thing where you can just bleep 20 seconds out and be done. Non-TV-material is mixed in everywhere. There's background nudity in several scenes (people bathing or walking around bare), there are bloody animal sacrifices going on, etc., while in the foreground other important things are happening. Christ was also nude on the cross (although strategically positioned--however, that wasn't done just for cinematic effect; both the nudity and the knees bent & together position they used were historically accurate, according to references the DVD version provided). If the scenes containing this stuff were just chopped out willy-nilly , you could easily end up with a very messy result. As to boring, it was a slower-moving film, yes; very introspective, but I wasn't bored. I was too busy comparing my restored-Gospel knowledge against the character of Jesus they presented. As to annoyed, yes, I'll admit there are potentially annoying things in it, such as John the Baptist sprinkling Jesus in a shallow stream. And I have never quite figured out how most of Christianity pins Mary Magdalene for a prostitute. (I can't find that scripture.) But those are allowable "errors" to me considering the source. This is the best "light" Scorsese had to go on. If an LDS filmmaker depicted Jesus' baptism as by sprinkling, then I'd be irritated. But not by this. Anyway, to each his own. Here's a piece of trivia on crucifixion I learned from the extra articles included on the DVD I rented. I'd never have known this otherwise. Researchers have unearthed only one authentic victim of crucifixion (in 1968). The proof is the nail was still in his heel bones. From the placement of the bones and the nail, they learned that a single nail was driven through first the right and then the left heel _bone._ (Ouch.) I always thought it was done between the bones of the feet. I find the heel placement specifically symbolic. There's another fascinating scene at the end, and I'd really like to know how they came up with it. Jesus (in his temptation/dream) is on his deathbed as an old man, having lived out his life. His "guardian angel" (Satan), a little girl, is with him, who has led him along this "normal life." Peter, Nathaniel (who should be James), and John come into the room. Peter says to the angel, moving her aside, "Get out of the way. We were sent here." Then they remind him what he was supposed to be doing. Now: without saying more, how *did* they do that? Wild. Little tidbits like that are what really made the film interesting to me, and worthwhile. Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Audition Notice Date: 08 Mar 2001 15:53:26 -0700 On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:03:48 -0700, J. Scott Bronson wrote: >Actor's Repertory Theatre Ensemble announces a call for actors. >Needed: Two men and one woman >For STONES a new play by J. Scott Bronson Woohoo! I can't *wait* to see this produced. Congratulations, Scott! Jacob - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Hugh Subject: [AML] Brent HUGH, "Earthquake Fugue" Date: 08 Mar 2001 16:39:21 -0600 I recently released my newest work, "Earthquake Fugue", on MP3.com. The work is a followup to "Music of the Human Genome", which has generated a lot of interest and hit the #1 spot on MP3.com's "Minimalist" chart. "Earthquake Fugue" is made entirely of actual earthquake data as recorded by seismographs and underwater hydrophones by the U.S. Geological Survey and the National Oceanographic & Atmospheric Administration. The earthquake sounds were speeded up (to bring them into the human hearing range) and processed electronically in a variety of ways to make "Earthquake Fugue". You can hear "Earthquake Fugue--A Soundscape for Six Elephants, Two Rhinoceroses, and Solo Brontosaurus" at http://mp3.com/Brent_D_Hugh The music is free for the listening in near-CD quality MP3 format. (Lower-quality, smaller versions are also available, so that modem users can listen instantly. Those with slower internet connections or slower/older computers, might want to listen in at http://mp3.com/stations/MathMusic, which is a smaller and less complicated page). --Brent +++++++++++++++++ Brent Hugh / bhugh@mwsc.edu +++++++++++++++++ + Missouri Western St College Dept of Music, St. Joseph, MO + + Piano Home Page : http://www.mwsc.edu/~bhugh + + Music IQ Songs : http://mp3.com/MusicIQ + ++ Music of the Human Genome : http://mp3.com/brent_d_hugh ++++ - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Children's/YA Lit by Mormon Authors Date: 08 Mar 2001 20:20:03 -0700 Sharlee's daughter Erica is Anne Frank. (I just had to slip that in.) And she's great! I've been watching rehearsals and this YA performance is absolutely wonderful. Okay, so here's the challenge, YA "supporters and fans." Are you going to come and see the YA play? Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] An Amusing Anecdote Date: 08 Mar 2001 20:26:41 -0700 [MOD: I am experimenting with stripping out codes to see if this will work. Please let me know--well, it's hard for you to let me know if this comes through blank; but maybe if anything comes through weird on this post, please let me know.] An amusing anecdoteI didn't see the article, Eric, but I laughed my head = off at the report of the report. Now I know what to title my next book, = and I definitely know what I should use for a pen name! This is a hoot! = And I just hope this lady will buy one of my sad and tragic historical = fiascos without feeling too deprived. Cheers! LyniMar Prattleson, = Author of "Why Don't They Stop Spreading All That Blood on the Grass?" - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Update: Gene England Date: 08 Mar 2001 20:37:29 -0700 At the risk of being a post-hog, can I put my two cents in for Doug and Donlu? Wow, I look up to them both. I consider Doug is the "father of Mormon literature." That's what I call him. And maybe include Don Marshall in there somewhere, too. Both willing to step out on a Mormon limb. I love kudos like these, and especially for Doug and Donlu. Thank you, posters. Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN LDS Author Wins Spur Award: Kent Larsen Date: 08 Mar 2001 22:13:51 -0600 [From Mormon-News] LDS Author Wins Spur Award CONWAY, ARKANSAS -- LDS author Violet T. Kimball has been told that she will receive a 2001 Spur Award for her book, "Stories of Young Pioneers: In Their Own Words," published last year by Mountain Press Publishing Company. The book covers the experiences of young pioneers traveling through the west in the mid-nineteenth century and is written for young readers. The Spur Awards have been given annually since 1953 to the best in Western writing. "Stories of Young Pioneers" is Kimball's second book, following "Mormon Trail: Voyage of Discovery" which is accompanied by the photographs of her husband, Mormon historian Stanley B. Kimball. She reports that the book is now being used in some schools, and that the publisher has also made available a 50 page teachers guide for using the book in the classroom. In a recent review in Booklist, reviewer Denise Wilms said that the book "can provide valuable curriculum support, and history teachers may find that selected details can spark a lively lesson." Kimball learned of the award in a recent letter from the Award's administrator, W. C. Jameson, which indicated that "Stories of Young Pioneers" won in the category of Best Western Juvenile Nonfiction book. The award covers books published in 2000. The Spur Awards, which are sponsored by the Western Writers of America, is one of the oldest literary awards in the U.S., according to the group's website. Past award winners include Larry McMurty for "Lonesome Dove" and Michael Blake for "Dances With Wolves." But Kimball may be the first Mormon writer to win the award, although other winners have treated Mormonism in their award-winning works. Vardis Fisher, whose parents were Mormon settlers in Idaho, won the Spur Award twice, but Fisher's widow hotly contested any attempt to label him Mormon. Non-Mormon Amelia Bean won the award in 1958 for her treatment of the Mountain Meadows Massacre and Irving Stone won for his nonfiction work that included a short description of the Mormon trek. >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Proctors Bring Their Mormon Views to the Web: BYU NewsNet Date: 08 Mar 2001 21:55:05 -0600 6Mar01 I2 [From Mormon-News] Proctors Bring Their Mormon Views to the Web WASHINGTON, DC -- Scot and Maurine Proctor are the proud parents of 11 children and "Meridian," an on-line magazine that reflects the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That said, Meridian is more than just another on-line magazine. For the Proctors, the magazine provides an alternative media viewpoint calculated to counteract mainstream media outlets that are increasingly dismissive of religion and faith-based living. In addition, it gives the Proctors something to work on as a family. The Proctors believe that the main goal of the Meridian effort is to support the Church's values as expressed in The Proclamation on the Family. Listening to Scot, editor-in-chief, you get the feeling that he believes in his message and in what he's doing. "I have a passion in getting the message out to the people," he said. "Not only the gospel message, but a message of goodness and truth that teaches correct principles." Apparently, the Meridian message contained in the publication is rapidly gaining "traction" with an ever-growing audience. Launched just a little more than two years ago, Meridian now has 4-5 million hits per month and a million page views a month, along with readers that hail from at least 85 different countries. The three main sections of Meridian magazine illustrate the focus of the magazine and the subject areas that are explored in a Gospel context. "Line Upon Line" is a section that discusses the practical application of Gospel principles, including personal scripture study and journal writing. The "Measure of the World" section explores current issues in the world through the unique viewpoint of the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ. Finally, the section entitled "Coming Home" examines issues surrounding the family unit and includes articles that deal with family relationships and building successful families. Recently, the Proctors left Utah for the east coast. The move was made, in large part, to further the mission of Meridian magazine by relocating to the place that serves as information central for the United States of America. In Washington D.C., Scot has noticed a big difference in his access to various sources of the news. "It is amazing how much more we see being in the heart of the news where instead of a church on every corner, there is a news agency," he said. While Meridian was eventually slated for hard copy production, the Proctors have decided to stay with the on-line format, at least for the time being. "It's fun to explore the gospel and ask questions knowing that every one of life's questions can be answered within the context of the gospel of Jesus Christ," he said. "We can explore science, family, relationships, gambling and hundreds of other topics because we have a foundation of faithfulness." While they may have left Utah behind, the Proctor family demonstrates with every issue of Meridian that the Gospel beliefs they've established remain firmly in place. Editor's Note: the on-line version of Meridian magazine can be found at ( http://www.meridianmagazine.com ). Source: Couple runs online church magazine BYU NewsNet 6Mar01 I2 http://newsnet.byu.edu/index.cfm?story=2021%2C30096 By Alecia Burningham: NewsNet Staff Writer >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Depictions of Christ Date: 08 Mar 2001 19:07:33 -0700 Linda Adams wrote: >Okay, my turn. It's possible to learn a lot from another person's >personal concept of Him, even if it's far different from our own, or >even deemed to be an incorrect or flawed concept. I did, this >weekend. And so I agree it's a worthwhile literary venture to >undertake, even if others disagree with you. This is a problem in the Mormon market right now. I think there are a lot of authors who would like to write (or who have written) more challenging works that fit outside the traditional depictions, but I'm not sure that the LDS publishers are willing to buy such books, and I'm not sure the LDS book-buying public is ready to accept such a book. Which may be why the best Mormon writers are often looking to the New York publishers. I think our culture needs that book--something that depicts the life of Christ using a completely different metaphor or presentation. Something that delivers a "faithful" vision of Christ, but does so in a way that jars the sensibilities and makes the reader rethink how they view their own faith. Levi Peterson's Cowboy Jesus was such an image, but I think it came in a context that was too hard for most Mormon readers to resonate with. It was too easy for them to reject that context, thus the image lost much of its power to reach the average reader, and while a small portion of the market was expanded, the vast majority was able to ignore it. Whoever creates that powerful, faithful image will end up taking a lot of heat from the Mormon reading community, and will have to be someone who can not only take that heat, but can do so while passionately--and publicly--defending that alternate vision. Someone who can be patient with those who will questions the author's testimony. Someone who can teach with authority from within the community. I know this all seems obvious, but I don't think it's ever happened. We've had impatient, disaffected proponents of a different vision. We've had faithful, perhaps a bit timid proponents of a good but unchallenging vision. Split the difference with a work that demands attention while still being faithful, and you can expand the Mormon market to include what I believe is a vast middle that wants challenging images and high literary quality, but still within the context of "faithful" storytelling. I didn't care for _Last Tempation of Christ_ because I didn't like the Christ is postulated. I thought that Christ was a little too pathetic, a little too likely to give in to that last temptation. I didn't mind the imagery or the concept, but I was disappointed with a too ordinary Christ. Which is the difficulty a Mormon author will have--making a Christ that is the picture of deity, but is still engaging and challenging and interesting. I believe it can be done. I don't have the talent, but I believe that the person that does have the talent may well be writing right now, and may very well be on this list. I know I have a couple of names in mind... Scott Parkin - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: [AML] YA lit./_The Diary of Anne Frank_ Date: 08 Mar 2001 19:03:46 -0700 Marilyn Brown wrote: > Sharlee's daughter Erica is Anne Frank. (I just had to slip that in.) And > she's great! I've been watching rehearsals and this YA performance is > absolutely wonderful. Okay, so here's the challenge, YA "supporters and > fans." Are you going to come and see the YA play? Marilyn Brown I'll be there, Marilyn! :-) Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Boyd Petersen Subject: [AML] Re: An Amusing Anecdote Date: 08 Mar 2001 22:52:23 -0700 on 3/8/2001 9:51 PM, Eric D. Snider at eric@ericdsnider.com wrote: > I thought the group might be amused by this story. > > In Wednesday's Daily Herald, I wrote a column that was a parody of > small-town news ("so-and-so's kid won first prize in the spelling > bee," etc.). The whole thing was ridiculous, with made-up names and > even made-up Utah town names like Beaver Fork and Lamanville. I can top this story, Eric. My wife, Zina, used to write a humor column for the Daily Herald. Some time after the Church came out against people bringing their handguns to church, Zina wrote a column about why it really is a good idea for people to bring handguns to church and calling for President Hinckley to rethink his position. She argued that handguns could be very useful in church to gently urge the chorister to pick up the tempo of the music, or to settle doctrinal disputes in Gospel Doctrine class, or to kill any bull moose who happened to wander into the chapel and, thereby, provide a years supply of moose meat for the entire congregation. I read the column before she sent it off and I urged her to take out the bull moose part, thinking she was killing the subtlety of her satire. But she left it in. A day after it appeared, my wife came home from work and said that the chair of the BYU English Dept had been on the phone all day dealing with calls about her column. I thought for sure it would have been from the gun nuts offended by her sarcasm, but it was by devoted Mormons who were upset that the BYU English Dept was harboring a disloyal person who was going against the prophet's wishes. One guy was threatening to write a letter to the First Presidency and stated firmly that he loved his guns as much as the next guy, but when the prophet said to leave guns at home, he would obey. My theory is that it's hard to get satire when the world around you is already so absurd to begin with. No one can tell satire from the daily news here in the happiest of valleys. Boyd Petersen - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pup7777@aol.com Subject: [AML] Novel Writing Workshop Date: 08 Mar 2001 18:42:58 EST --part1_20.1303a576.27d97302_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_20.1303a576.27d97302_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-xd04.mx.aol.com (rly-xd04.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.169]) by air-xd01.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:49:29 -0500 Received: from ns1.xactware.com (ns1.xactware.com [207.14.128.31]) by rly-xd04.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:49:15 -0500 Received: from rachel ([207.14.128.209] (may be forged)) by ns1.xactware.com (2.5 Build 2639 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA03690 for ; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:49:12 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c0a752$8d7fe560$1a32a8c0@xactware.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Hands-on Fiction Writers Workshop Anita Stansfield, Rachel Ann Nunes, and Lisa J. Peck will conduct a hands-on writing workshop with an emphasis on techniques to create best-selling stories. See first-hand how these prominent LDS authors go from first idea to published product. All authors will be present for discussion and assistance during each of the classes. Enrollment is limited. Attendees will receive a booklet specifically organized for this workshop. Refreshments will be provided. Date: Saturday April 7, 2001 Time: 9:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Place: 1362 North 430 East Orem, Utah Cost: $75.00 ($65.00 if money is received by March 24th) To register send a check payable to Truebekon Books: P.O. Box 353 American Fork, Utah 84003 Classes are as follows: 9:00 - 9:20 Defining Yourself as a Writer/Finding Time Learn what it means to be a writer and how secure time for your craft. Set personal goals. 9:20 - 10:45 Techniques for Finding Great Ideas Find, develop, and begin writing your story with these exercises. Use again and again to spark your creative juices. 10:45 - 12:00 Developing Four-dimensional Characters Make your characters vivid to your readers. This hands-on approach brings your characters to life. 12:00 - 1:30 Lunch Break Lunch is not provided, but there are many restaurants in the area. 1:30 - 2:45 Building a Solid Plot See how best-selling authors create plots that keeps readers turning pages-then write your own. 2:45 - 4:00 Beginnings That Sizzle Write beginnings that grab the reader from the very first paragraph. Each attendee should bring a one page (double spaced) beginning for the class and authors to discuss and rework. 4:00 - 4:30 Open Questions and Discussion About the authors: Anita Stansfield is the best-selling author of sixteen novels. She is currently the number one romance author in the LDS market. Her work includes the _First Time and Forever_ series and the _Gable Faces East_. Rachel Ann Nunes has authored eleven best-selling novels, including the _Ariana series_. Her latest novel, _This Time Forever_, was released in January. She is a popular speaker at writing conferences and church functions. Lisa J. Peck has won multi-awards for her writing. She has published seven books and wrote the screen play for the nationally-selling movie "Only Once." She is also the executive producer for the feature film "Cowboys and Angels." For more information about the workshop e-mail: workshops@ranunes.com. Additional manuscript evaluation also available. For rate inquiries e-mail: pup7777@aol.com. [Lisa Peck] --part1_20.1303a576.27d97302_boundary-- - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] An Amusing Anecdote Date: 08 Mar 2001 21:55:45 +0000 [snip] >My >theory is that it's hard to get satire when the world around you is already >so absurd to begin with. No one can tell satire from the daily news here in >the happiest of valleys. > >Boyd Petersen Uhhhh, what exactly WAS on that pizza we ate, Boyd? I thought it was pepperoni! Now I learn it was bull. I'm very depressed.... Give Zina a hug for me. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Depictions of Christ Date: 09 Mar 2001 00:58:11 -0700 Linda Adams wrote: > A few days ago I watched a completely fascinating fictional movie on > the life of Christ, which I'd often passed over before. It was absolutely, > breathtakingly beautifully filmed, powerfully moving and thrilling. I was > spiritually uplifted and edified and brought closer to the Savior. > > It's also rated R (justly so) and was made by Martin Scorsese, and got > horribly bad, bad press. Guessed yet? Yes, it was _The Last Temptation of > Christ._ > Has anyone else here seen it? Am I alone in my interpretation and response? When the film first came out, I remember a bunch of Salt Lake religious leaders were invited to view it. The LDS representative came out saying--not that it was blasphemous or evil--but that it just wasn't worth bothering. So I never went to see it. Then later on cable I caught a couple snatches of it. One scene where Christ is being doubtful about his calling, and another scene where he confronts Paul about preaching that he's the Messiah, and denouncing him for doing so. This was indeed a movie I didn't want to bother with, I thought. Just another one of those efforts to portray Christ as non-divine. Probably some take-off on the _Passion Plot_ where Christ really didn't die on the cross, but the disciples faked it to look like he did. Many years later it was on cable again. I watched more of it, but lost interest as it hit all those doubtful scenes again. I became distracted with other things, but let it play on. Suddenly the crucifixion scene caught my attention, especially as the child angel came and removed him from the cross. I wondered what was up with this. I finished watching the film. Of course this time around, I figured out what the film was about after all. I felt better about it after discovering that it wasn't another _Jesus Christ Superstar_ attempt to de-deify Christ. But I tend to like my historical fiction more on the accurate side than not. So the film didn't have the spiritual impact on me it had on you. Interestingly, it sounds like the most impactful part of the film to you was also the most historically accurate part. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: [AML] Re: An Amusing Anecdote Date: 09 Mar 2001 07:59:45 -0700 The most recent Reader's Digest includes a letter to the editor from = someone who was absolutely irate over the Harry Potter books, and over a = news story in which J. K. Rowling is quoted as being ecstatic over the = fact that fourteen million children have been converted to Satanism by the = books. The quoted news source for this story? The Onion. Eric Samuelsen [MOD: Did the Reader's Digest editor pick up on this?] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] An Amusing Anecdote Date: 09 Mar 2001 10:55:50 -0700 On Fri, 09 Mar 2001 07:59:45 -0700, Eric R. Samuelsen wrote: >The most recent Reader's Digest includes a letter to the editor from = someone who was absolutely irate over the Harry Potter books, and over a = news story in which J. K. Rowling is quoted as being ecstatic over the = fact that fourteen million children have been converted to Satanism by = the books. The quoted news source for this story? The Onion. > >Eric Samuelsen > >[MOD: Did the Reader's Digest editor pick up on this?] Yes. They added their own comment about theonion.com being a satirical = web site. They were very gentle about it, I thought. Melissa Proffitt - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bunny S. Miner" Subject: Re: [AML] MN Odyssey Channel to Repeat "Voyage of the Unicorn": Kent Larsen Date: 09 Mar 2001 10:22:28 -0700 THanks for the info. I was just thinking this list was too chatty for me and low and behold, I find something very valuable in the chat! Bunny (one who lurks!) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Picht Subject: Re: [AML] YA or Not? Date: 09 Mar 2001 12:01:49 -0600 LauraMaery wrote: > Allow me to offer a different paradigm: Ever watched a PG or a PG-13 movie? In > theory, they're intended -- or at least rated -- for adolescent audiences. That > doesn't stop adults from watching them. I'm not certain this paradigm fits. Disney's _Jungle Book_ and _Babette's Feast_ might have the same rating, but the latter is much more for adults than the former. In fact, I doubt there are many adolescents or even young adults who'd fully appreciate a film like _Babette's Feast_, while it's an enormously satisfying film for an adult with a taste for it. What to say about "The Simpons," a PG delight for this adult, and the wretched Ms McBeal, whose loathsome show is written for people with the emotional and intellectual capacities of pre-schoolers and the sexuality of goats? I read a couple of years ago Kristen Randle's book _The Only Alien on the Planet_ (I think that was the title, but my memory files have been badly corrupted by exposure to lead, mercury, and an episode of _Temptation Island_, which probably also cost me 20 points of IQ). It's a YA book, not the sort of thing I'd assign to one of my classes, but I enjoyed it nevertheless. I think adults can derive entertainment and even enlightenment from YA and children's literature, especially when it's well crafted and treats its target audience in a serious way. Even so, I don't mistake YA literature for adult literature, and the differences have nothing to do with the factors that get films R-ratings. SF has its place on my bookshelves. Some of it is, in my opinion, PG-rated adult reading. I've encountered some that's R-rated children's literature, just as some films are R-rated children's movies. Plots are shallow, characterization is thin, themes are obvious and basic, didactic elements are likewise obvious and heavy-handed (along the lines of "pollution is bad"). I suppose that's children's literature done badly, since children's literature done with a deft hand is rarely obvious or openly didactic, even if there isn't much room for complex plot or complexly drawn characters. As I go on with this post, I find that it's getting harder and harder for me to define in my mind what YA literature is as opposed to adult literature. _War and Peace_ is adult not because the lovely Helene has probably entertained her brother in bed and cuckolded Pierre (we see none of that, but we know that it's happened), but because it takes an adult's experiences and understanding to fully appreciate the novel. Many children can get as much out of _Green Eggs and Ham_ as most adults can, so I consider it a children's book (and keep a copy on my shelves). Those same children can understand _Ali McBeall_, even if they aren't sexually active, because the motivations and behavior of everyone on the show are self-centered and childish, fully comprehensible to anyone who's ever spent time on a playground. > Why is it that we don't consider the adolescent section of the library the > equivalent of PG and PG-13 movies? Sure, teenagers can read them. That > doesn't stop adults from reading them too. What interests adolescents > should also interest former adolescents. Maybe, but I think it's a mistake to conflate "adult material" (sex and violence) with adult literature, and the converse - to conflate lack of sexuality and violence with YA. They aren't the same, so ratings are irrelevant to categorizing literature or films as YA or adult. SF has more than its share of children's and YA writing combined with adult material, but some of it is genuinely adult writing, and I see no reason to consign it to the YA shelves of a library. Jim Picht - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Amy Chamberlain" Subject: Re: [AML] An Amusing Anecdote Date: 09 Mar 2001 11:17:52 -0700 I have to agree with your claims that Mormons, by and large, just don't "get" satire. I teach Freshman English for BYU and always give my classes Swift's "A Modest Proposal" to read and discuss. Without fail, every semester or term I teach, there's at least one student who comes to class thoroughly incensed: "I can't believe this guy! He wants everyone to eat their children!" As for what satire is and how it works? Always a loooong discussion. Granted, these are usually 18-22-year-olds without a lot of life experience, but they are, by and large, very bright people. Is it cultural? Is satire sometimes perceived as anti-Mormon along the Wasatch Front? Amy - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] An Amusing Anecdote Date: 09 Mar 2001 12:32:37 -0700 At 11:17 AM 3/9/01 -0700, you wrote: >I have to agree with your claims that Mormons, by and large, just don't >"get" satire. I teach Freshman English for BYU and always give my classes >Swift's "A Modest Proposal" to read and discuss. Without fail, every >semester or term I teach, there's at least one student who comes to class >thoroughly incensed: "I can't believe this guy! He wants everyone to eat >their children!" The same thing happened in Swift's day, of course. A lot of people didn't get it. barbara hume - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Depictions of Christ Date: 09 Mar 2001 12:21:43 -0600 At 01:58 AM 3/9/01, you wrote: >I felt better about it after discovering that it wasn't another _Jesus >Christ Superstar_ attempt to de-deify Christ. But I tend to like my >historical fiction more on the accurate side than not. So the film >didn't have the spiritual impact on me it had on you. Interestingly, it >sounds like the most impactful part of the film to you was also the most >historically accurate part. > >-- >D. Michael Martindale Right. I could've passed on the first half+ of the film, and started with the Gethsemane scene on out. And although Christ was presented as doubtful or uncertain of his real mission (which I can't buy into), he was never presented as "just a man," but as the literal Son of God. I appreciated that, at least. But actually, it was the fictional "temptation" scenes mixed in with the historical accuracy that I gained the most from. Spiritual experiences are so hard to define, aren't they? It was probably the Spirit teaching me, only partly through the medium of the movie, something deeper about the nature of the Atonement than I'd learned before. Hard to say. It would be incredible to see something like this done by Mormons, adding the greater depth and knowledge of Him that we have. I think Scott's right though, our audience wouldn't be ready for it. As a _people,_ we are too easily offended. Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Maxwell" Subject: [AML] Mormon Arts Festival 2001? Date: 09 Mar 2001 12:08:58 -0800 Does anyone have any information on the upcoming Mormon Arts Festival in St. George on April 12-14? Does the Festival have an up-to-date URL that one can refer to? Thanks! - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jana bouck remy" Subject: Re: [AML] Reviewer List Date: 09 Mar 2001 13:17:19 -0800 I made a mistake on this reviewer list.... The reviewer for _One More River to Cross_ is Sam Brunson, Not D. Michael Martindale. Sorry for the confusion! Jana Remy "Well-behaved women rarely make history" --Laurel Thatcher Ulrich - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Maxwell" Subject: [AML] Sarah ANDREWS, Forensic Geologist Em Hansen Mysteries Date: 09 Mar 2001 13:10:59 -0800 In Sarah Andrews' recently published mysteries about forensic geologist Em Hansen, her heroine meets and falls in love with a widowed Mormon policeman in Salt Lake City. In _Bone Hunter_ (Minotaur Books, 1999), the 5th book in the series, Em meets Officer Thomas Raymond after she comes to a conference in Salt Lake and gets inadvertently involved in the murder investigation of a dinosaur paleontologist. At the beginning of the 6th book, _An Eye For Gold_, (Minotaur Books, 2000), Em is staying at Ray's mother's house in Salt Lake, trying to make up her mind whether to marry him, when the FBI asks her for help with another case. After reading and enjoying _Bone Hunter_, I got the other Em Hansen books from the library, and read and enjoyed all of them. I like the author's combination of mystery and science. And it's very unusual that a non-Mormon mystery author would put her heroine in a committed relationship -- possibly including marriage -- with a Mormon character. I'm thinking of sending the author a thank-you letter (okay, a fan letter) with some ideas on what Em Hansen might experience if she chooses to marry her Mormon boyfriend. But I thought I'd throw this out to the AML-List as well. What would you think a non-LDS author should know if she's considering having her non-Mormon protagonist marry a Mormon living in Salt Lake City? If Em and Ray get married, what do you think it would be like for them? Ray is apparently a returned missionary, widowed, no children, morally conservative, with long-time pioneer heritage. What would it be like to be a part-member family living in SLC? What else do you think author Sarah Andrews should know about life in Utah that would help her in her next book? Regards, Frank Maxwell - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Joseph Fielding Smith Institute to host symposium March 17: BYU Press Release Date: 10 Mar 2001 10:17:29 -0600 BYU Press Release 8Mar01 D3 [From Mormon-News] Joseph Fielding Smith Institute to host symposium March 17 PROVO, UTAH -- The Joseph Fielding Smith Institute will host the fifth annual spring symposium, "Lives of the Saints," at Brigham Young University on Saturday (March 17) from 8 a.m. to 4:10 p.m. The symposium will feature scholars from a range of disciplines addressing the art of writing about the lives of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Lectures focusing on the challenges of constructing biographical and autobiographical narratives of members of the Church of Jesus Christ will be applicable to academics, history buffs, family historians and students. The event is open to the public. There is no admission fee for the symposium and prior registration is not required. For more information and a complete schedule of events, visit http://fhss.byu.edu/jfsinst/ and click "news and events." Scott E. Casper, author of "Constructing American Lives: Biography and Culture in Nineteenth Century America," will deliver the keynote address in the Joseph Smith Building Auditorium at 8:30 a.m. His book received the 2000 History Book Prize given by the International Society for the History of Authorship, Reading and Publishing. Other presentations will address the cultural context and purpose of autobiographical and biographical narratives. Lectures concerning research methods and sources will be offered in addition to lectures about desktop, digital, and traditional press publishing. Sessions will be held in the Joseph Smith and Ezra Taft Benson Buildings. -###- >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Martha Beck's Forthcoming Book Makes Amazon List: Kent Larsen Date: 10 Mar 2001 10:34:08 -0600 8Mar01 A4 [From Mormon-News] Martha Beck's Forthcoming Book Makes Amazon List NEW YORK, NEW YORK -- "Finding Your Own North Star," a forthcoming book by Mormon author Martha Nibley Beck hit Amazon's 'Tomorrow's Bestseller's' list ahead of the book's release later this month. Beck's previous book, "Expecting Adam" received a lot of attention for its criticism of the intellectual community for the suggestion that she should have an abortion because her expected son, Adam, had Downs Syndrome. Other books on both the US National bestseller lists and on the LDS list stayed in similar positions, except that the LDS audience seems to have gone back to basic doctrine, buying "The Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley" and pushing it to the number 1 spot in place of Rachel Nunes' "This Time Forever." Last week Nunes' book rocketed to the top of the list on its release as her fans rushed to get copies. However, the book is now nowhere to be seen on the list. The current titles on US National bestseller lists are: Nothing Like it in the World, by Stephen Ambrose A history of the building of the transcontinental railroad in the US. Ambrose, a highly regarded historian, details the involvement of Mormons in building crucial portions of the road, including the driving of the "golden spike" in the heart of Mormon territory. Currently on the following bestseller lists: This Last List 25 26 Barnes & Noble (Mar 8) Top 100 17 19 BooksAMillion (Mar 8) Non-Fiction Hardcover 12 14 New York Times (Mar 11) Non-Fiction Hardcover [Independents - 9; Chains - 14] The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, by Stephen R. Covey This ten-year-old personal management classic is still selling strongly. Currently on the following bestseller lists: This Last List 24 24 Amazon.com (Mar 7) Non-Fiction Paperback 60 58 Barnes & Noble Top (Mar 8) Top 100 107 116 USA Today (Mar 8) 8 6 Wall Street Journal (Mar 2) Business Shadow of the Hegemon, by Orson Scott Card The second novel in Card's new series about Bean, Ender's shadow. In this novel, Bean is the tactical genius who wins the Earth for Ender's brother, Peter, the Hegemon. Currently on the following bestseller lists: This Last List 15 15 Amazon.com (Mar 7) Fiction Hardcover 33 27 New York Times (Mar 11) Fiction Hardcover The Whitechapel Conspiracy, by Anne Perry Perry's Inspector Thomas Pitt returns to 19th-century London for Perry's 20th novel about the detective. Currently on the following bestseller lists: This Last List 25 23 New York Times (Mar 11) Fiction Hardcover Finding Your Own North Star: Claiming the Life You Were Meant to Live, by Martha Nibley Beck A self help book from the author of "Expecting Adam." Currently on the following bestseller lists: This Last List 9 - Amazon.com (Mar 7) Tomorrow's Bestsellers Bestsellers in LDS Bookstores: This Last Title 1 - The Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley by Gordon B. Hinckley Deseret Book 2 2 Lamb of God (Video) LDS Church Distribution 3 3 Legacy (Video) LDS Church Distribution 4 4 Teaching by the Spirit by Gene R. Cook Deseret Book 5 5 A Quiet Heart by Patricia T. Holland Deseret Book 6 - Peace: Music of Reflection (CD) Deseret Book 7 6 The Light Within: What the Prophet Joseph Smith Taught Us About Personal Revelation by W. Jeffrey Marsh Deseret Book 8 - First Vision by Anthony J. Cannon, Cary Astin and G. Newbold Deseret Book 9 8 Children's Songbook Words and Music (CD) LDS Church Distribution 10 9 Teachings from the D&C and Church History (Video) LDS Church Distribution 11 - The Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer W. Kimball Deseret Book 12 10 Story of the Walnut Tree by Don H. Staheli, Illustrated by Robert T. Barrett Deseret Book 13 - Opals and Outrage by Lynn Gardner Covenant Communications 14 - Follow the Prophet by Clive Romney (CD) Excel Entertainment 15 - Special Witnesses of Christ (video) LDS Church Distribution >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN LDS Author Darius Gray Speaks to African-American Members in Harlem: Scott Tiffany Date: 10 Mar 2001 10:21:53 -0600 Harlem: Scott Tiffany 8Mar01 A2 [From Mormon-News] LDS Author Darius Gray Speaks to African-American Members in Harlem NEW YORK, NEW YORK -- Darius Aidain Gray, president of the Genesis Group, visited Manhattan's core African-American church members in Harlem last week telling them, "I am pleased to be here, it's been my dream to come here a long time. I have prayed to be here and I am happy to be here." Gray visited with about 40 members of the Harlem Branch at a potluck dinner on February 28, 2001, held in honor of his visit to New York City. Gray came to the city on a press tour promoting the Church's release of the Freedman Bank records on CD-ROM. He told Harlem Church members the disk was an invaluable resource to finding out "where we came from." The CD indexes the names and biographical information of nearly 500,000 African Americans who applied for bank accounts at the Freedman Bank after the Civil War. "As people of color, we have a rich history, not only in latter-day times, but in historical times of the Bible," said Gray who is the co-author of "Standing on the Promises: One More River to Cross," the first of a trilogy of historical novels about black members of the Church. "Sometimes, we have been led to believe that we are 'less than.' But no one in God's family is less than. We are all God's children, and we must not judge other children by the color of their skin." Gray presides over the Genesis Group, an official arm of the Church created in 1971 as a support group for Americans of African descent. Margaret Blair Young, Gray's co-author of the book, also attended the dinner. >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gerald G Enos Subject: Re: [AML] An Amusing Anecdote Date: 10 Mar 2001 14:27:29 -0700 Personally I have lots of experience with satire so I would not be thrown by it. Maybe these people just don't hear it on a daily basis like I did when I was growing up. (My father loves satire, therefore I can't stand it, but I am very familar with it.) Konnie Enos ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] Audition Notice Date: 10 Mar 2001 14:39:12 -0700 Any particular categories of men? > > For those actors in the Utah Valley vicinity: > > Actor's Repertory Theatre Ensemble announces a call for actors. > Needed: Two men and one woman > For STONES a new play by J. Scott Bronson - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] LUND, _Kingdom and the Crown_ Date: 10 Mar 2001 17:18:26 -0700 The point for me would be that I would feel comfortable with the Savior's role in the fiction. The other characters can carry the story. Like Annette, I would prefer not to read book where words are put into the Savior's mouth. I know you don't agree, but that's why we each have the rights to speak our opinions here. Lu Ann "D. Michael Martindale" wrote: > katie@aros.net wrote: > > > Interesting. I probably should have guessed it would be like this. I have > > been leery of picking up this book because I really don't want to see the > > Savior fictionalized to the extent that Joseph Smith et. al. are in _The Work > > and the Glory_. But I should've known Lund would stick to his facts like this. > > Then I recommend you never read my book on the life of Christ (when it > appears sometime in the nebulous future). I can't think of a reason to > write a book like that if I'm just going to present the Savior everyone > can read about in the New Testament. What would be the point? > > -- > D. Michael Martindale > dmichael@wwno.com > > ================================== > Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at > http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths > > Sponsored by Worlds Without Number > http://www.wwno.com > ================================== > > - > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] YA or Not? Date: 10 Mar 2001 17:43:48 -0700 Ivan, Just so you know, the OSC Ender's series are all in the Adult section of the Spanish Fork library, not the Adolescent section. (And by adult, I DO NOT mean anything sleezy like that term is used with video stores. ha!) Lu Ann - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] An Amusing Anecdote Date: 10 Mar 2001 18:09:55 -0700 Eric, This is hysterical! I laughed right out loud. It's even better than the Gerald Lund sotry about the woman who prayed for the Steeds. Lu Ann [MOD: Again, please let me know what this one comes through looking like to you if it looks at all odd...] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Preston" Subject: [AML] Re: [AML-Mag] Sarah ANDREWS, Forensic Geologist Em Hansen Date: 10 Mar 2001 20:47:59 -0600 Please forgive me for writing you directly, but you did ask what people think. [MOD: No forgiveness necessary, so far as I can tell...] I created the web page at http://www.adherents.com/lit/mys_lds.html : "Mainstream Mystery Novels Featuring Mormons". I'm not the world expert on this topic, but as far as I can tell (without firsthand information, but with experience on this topic), Andrews certainly has first-hand experience with Latter-day Saints and is having her Mormon-oriented writing checked by Mormon readers. As I've compiled the information at http://www.adherents.com/lit/sf_lds.html, it becomes pretty apparent which authors have first hand experience, which are using Mormon proofreaders, and which are not. BUT, I have NOT read Andrews' writing, so I'm just guessing about her. Preston Hunter www.adherents.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] YA lit./_The Diary of Anne Frank_ Date: 10 Mar 2001 18:51:48 -0700 I hope to be and I'll encourage my 8th graders who will be reading Anne in just a few weeks in Payson. Lu Ann Sharlee Glenn wrote: > Marilyn Brown wrote: > > > Sharlee's daughter Erica is Anne Frank. (I just had to slip that in.) And > > she's great! I've been watching rehearsals and this YA performance is > > absolutely wonderful. Okay, so here's the challenge, YA "supporters and > > fans." Are you going to come and see the YA play? Marilyn Brown > > I'll be there, Marilyn! :-) > > Sharlee Glenn > glennsj@inet-1.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LSWeber@aol.com Subject: [AML] GIRZONE, _Joshua_ Series (was: Depictions of Christ) Date: 10 Mar 2001 23:20:05 EST I've been lurking on the list for some time and am only able to read a few posts a day. If I remember correctly, someone asked a while back about fictional depictions of Christ. I don't know if anybody brought up the Joshua series by Joseph F. Girzone. He has written several books about Joshua (Christ) who appears in several modern locations and quietly goes about touching people's lives, sometimes in miraculous ways, sometimes in loving ways. I've read two of the books and quite liked them. They weren't written particularly well, but I was touched by the stories and the characterization of Christ as he would be if he rode into town one day and opened up a small carpentry shop in the back room of the small house he rented. He quietly and sometimes not so quietly goes about touching people's lives. The settings of the two books I read were somewhere in upstate New York--which I liked because that's where I live--and in Northern Ireland. Has anyone else read them? The title of the book I own is simply _Joshua_ (I think it might be the first in the series). It was published in 1983 by Collier Books (Macmillan Publishing Company). I couldn't find any of the other books and I don't remember their specific titles. I also don't remember how many titles there were in the series. Lloyd Weber lsweber@aol.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: [AML] Jane and Lynn TILTON, _Segundo_ (Review) Date: 10 Mar 2001 19:30:35 +0000 Review ====== Jane and Lynn Tilton, "Segundo" 1994, Bookcraft Paperback, 185 pages, $7.95 Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle "Segundo" is the name given a young Apache boy living in Arizona in the mid-1800's. Captured by US soldiers and brought to an internment camp, he and his father escape their captors, only to be ambushed by desperados. His father is killed, but Segundo escapes when a Mexican landowner named Hector rescues him and takes him home to be raised as his own son. Hector and Segundo are befriended by a Mormon family headed by a Bishop Merrill. Merrill is a polygamist. At one of his homes he engages a young girl named Marta. Marta and Segundo fall in love, but that love must be put to the side as Segundo sets out to avenge his father's death. Hector has a similar agenda. He wants to find, and kill, the man who murdered his wife and child. But he faces a difficult situation. He wants Segundo to put aside his feelings of revenge, knowing how they've torn him (Hector) apart. But another part of him understands that dismissing these thoughts is easier said than done. Hector sets out to Mexico to kill his enemy and leaves Segundo in the charge of the Merrills. Here Segundo learns to read English, from the Book of Mormon. And here Segundo learns principles that will remain with him for the rest of his life. Young people will enjoy this book. But it isn't without its problems. Early in the book we're given some sense of how pervasive are stereotypes of Native Americans. Consider the following: Hector purchases a new shirt for Segundo. "To the boy, who had lived in the poverty of the Apache camps where the only way to increase belongings was by raiding, Hector's ability to produce needed possessions seemed just short of miraculous. After one visit to the post, Hector returned with a new shirt for him and a sharp hunting knife." (p. 25) Pages 29-30 contain an extended narrative on the subject of "law." Segundo doesn't understand the concept at all. It is never made clear whether this is a function of his youth or a reflection of the Tilton's understanding of Apache society. The word "savages" came to mind several times during this reading, an unfortunate view of a people who have suffered much at the hands of historical revisionists. I kept hoping for a more favorable view of the Apache people, but none was forthcoming. Putting aside the stereotypical views of not only the Apaches but even of the several Mormons in the book, it's an interesting story that will hold the attention of younger readers. Older readers will find it too preachy and too predictable. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "LauraMaery (Gold) Post" Subject: [AML] Satire (was: An Amusing Anecdote) Date: 11 Mar 2001 07:21:46 -0800 >As for what satire is and how it works? Always a loooong discussion. >Granted, these are usually 18-22-year-olds without a lot of life experience, >but they are, by and large, very bright people. Is it cultural? Is satire >sometimes perceived as anti-Mormon along the Wasatch Front? To "get" satire requires a high degree of sophistry. One must needs have spent significant amounts of time in the company of sarcasm, cynicism and negativity to "get" satire. When one is raised amongst positive, kindly, plain-spoken straight-forward people, one doesn't naturally acquire the sophism that's needed to "get" satire. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. --lauramaery --------- WHAT DO WE DO? We homeschool! Here's how: "Homeschool Your Child for Free." Order your copy today, from Amazon.com. --------- . - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Debra L. Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] YA or Not? Date: 11 Mar 2001 11:19:57 -0500 Cracking up here! Jim, I love it when you post, I always learn something and get a good laugh. And surely I will think of you when I am over in France and facing goat cheese. Debbie Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] MN LDS Author Wins Spur Award: Kent Larsen Date: 12 Mar 2001 10:10:37 -0700 Congratulations, Violet! This is absolutely WONDERFUL! This should be one of the contenders for our AML young people's award, too, Scott, when that comes up next year. I am so proud of you, Violet! HOORAY! Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: RE: [AML] Satire (was: An Amusing Anecdote) Date: 12 Mar 2001 10:16:43 -0700 LauraMaery (Gold) Post wrote: <<>> It's similar to diet. If you're raised on oatmeal, bread soaked in milk, = traditional roast beef dinners, and the occasional sweet canned peaches = without ever trying anything else, then you have your reward. If you were = raised to have an adventurous pallet or on your own started seeking the = spicier, more challenging stuff in life like irony and satire, the milk = and oatmeal seem pretty boring. Satire and irony are quite addictive = actually--it's more fun and creative to see the world through those = lenses, rather than be an earnest, conforming literalist. Growing up in = the age of David Letterman, I breathe sarcasm and satire, but maybe it = gives me spiritual ulcers, I don't know. Wednesdays are my favorite day of = the week because it's Onion day--but maybe that delicious satirical = website makes my breath smell bad spiritually. Chris Bigelow=20 - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: [AML] Goat Cheese (was: YA or Not?) Date: 12 Mar 2001 12:42:57 -0500 Oh, please take me with you. I love goat cheese. There is one particularly luscious kind that starts with a 'g' that I can't remember how to spell. The description was 'caramelized goat cheese'. Hmmmm-there must be a literary tie in here some where. How about a some Mormon version of Pamplemousse that you write while you are there. Tracie -----Original Message----- Cracking up here! Jim, I love it when you post, I always learn something and get a good laugh. And surely I will think of you when I am over in France and facing goat cheese. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: RE: [AML] GIRZONE, _Joshua_ Series (was: Depictions of Christ) Date: 12 Mar 2001 12:58:21 -0500 Joshua Joshua and the Children Joshua and the City Joshua in the Holy Land Joshua, the Homecoming Joshua, the Journey Home Joshua and the Shepherd The Parables of Joshua (this is on order at our library, listed as published 2001-perhaps a compilation?) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] GIRZONE, _Joshua_ Series (was: Depictions of Christ) Date: 12 Mar 2001 09:45:51 +0000 The Joshua books were immensely popular. Nearly every Christian bookstore still carries the titles. If memory serves me correctly, Girzone is a Catholic priest who has distanced himself somewhat from Rome's exclusiveness. His Christ in these novels is clearly a universalist, something not uncommon in some Catholic circles, but frowned upon by the Vatican. Your observation that they are not particuarly well written is correct, but they had a profound effect on readers for whom the idea of a universal Christ, without denominational boundaries, was something of a novelty. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruth Starkman Subject: Re: [AML] Agents/Editors Open to Mormon Material Date: 12 Mar 2001 10:02:21 -0800 (PST) Here are a few names to add to Chris' list. These are the agents and one editor who read parts or all of my ms. All were open to Mormon material. Ruth Cavin, editor Minotaur Books St. Martin's Press 175 Fifth Avenue New York, NY 10010 (I met her at a conference and queried her. Minotaur doesn't accept unsolicited mss, but a query might work.) Meg Ruley Jane Rotrosen Agency 318 East 51st St. New York, NY 10022 (commercial, romance, mystery, women's fiction,stories set in Utah or New England--she's from Nantucket) Robin Rue Writers House 21 West 26th St. New York, NY 10010 (commercial, genre, romance, mystery, women's fiction) Lisa Erbach Vance The Aaron M. Priest Literary Agency 708 Third Avenue 23rd Floor New York, NY 10017 (men's fiction, commercial, literary) Daniel Mandel Sanford J Greenberger Associates 55 fifth avenue New york, ny 10003 (commercial, literary, fiction depicting current events, politics) Hey Chris--still looking for other readers for your ms.? I'm always interested and give honest( bareknuckled) commentary, but can't get to it before summer break :-(, if you can wait that long drop me a line... --Ruth Starkman - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruth Starkman Subject: Re: [AML] Sarah ANDREWS, Forensic Geologist Em Hansen Mysteries Date: 12 Mar 2001 10:03:07 -0800 (PST) On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Frank Maxwell wrote: > > What would you think a non-LDS author should know if she's considering > having her non-Mormon protagonist marry a Mormon living in Salt Lake City? > If Em and Ray get married, what do you think it would be like for them? > Ray is apparently a returned missionary, widowed, no children, morally > conservative, with long-time pioneer heritage. What would it be like to be > a part-member family living in SLC? What else do you think author Sarah > Andrews should know about life in Utah that would help her in her next > book? > > Regards, > Frank Maxwell > > I'm a Sarah Andrews fan too. She seems to have a lot of contact with Utah and Mormons. Here's her webpage: http://www.sonoma.edu/geology/andrews.htm I couldn't say what kind of advice to give her, though, aside from the usual tensions of interfaith relationships and families. I've known one other geologist who spent lots of time in Utah and his wife converted, but not he. In anycase, fan letters are great. I know I'd appreciate it if some wrote to me and offered suggestions. --Ruth Starkman - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] Audition Notice Date: 12 Mar 2001 13:26:25 -0700 On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:39:12 -0700 "Scott Tarbet" writes: > Any particular categories of men? Nope. Open to any and all who may dare to speak the words of diety as "I" have conjured them. Audition at your own risk. scott - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 12 Mar 2001 12:39:59 -0700 On Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:21:46 -0800 "LauraMaery (Gold) Post" writes: > To "get" satire requires a high degree of sophistry. One must needs > have spent significant amounts of time in the company of sarcasm, > cynicism and negativity to "get" satire. Can't agree with you there. Satire, and it's cousin -- irony, don't require any measure of negativism to be given or gotten. Unless you will claim that I am hopelessly cynical, I'm pretty sure that section 122 of the Doctrine and Covenants is some of the best irony I have ever encountered, bordering on satire. When the Lord says to Joseph, "If 'this' should happen to you or 'that' should occur," it is obvious to Joseph at least, that those things have ALREADY happened to him and so the Lord employs irony to make his point. And he caps it off brilliantly with this, "The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?" The answer to this question is SO obvious that the Lord doesn't even wait for the answer; he goes right on with the point, which is, "You ain't seen nothin' yet. Hang on. You'll be okay. Don't forget, I'm in charge." Some might call that sarcasm or sophistry. I call it sophis ... ticated. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. J. Scott Bronson A member of Playwrights Circle An organization of professionals http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] SF Bibliography URL Change Date: 12 Mar 2001 14:38:12 -0700 Folks-- The URL to my bibliography of Mormon speculative fiction has changed. It is now http://home.earthlink.net/~marnyparkin/ If you haven't seen it since I put it up last year, you ought to check it out. The site has more features, including authors' awards, links to reviews, and recommended reading. Marny Parkin - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] Speaking for God [was: LUND, _Kingdom and the Crown_] Date: 12 Mar 2001 13:24:40 -0700 On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 17:18:26 -0700 LuAnnStaheli writes: > Like Annette, I would prefer not to read book where words > are put into the Savior's mouth. How about a play? I guess this is a good time to announce (though a bit early) that Actors Repertory Theatre Ensemble of Provo, Utah will be producing my play, Stones, this Spring. (The announcement for auditions went out last week.). I suppose, based on the fairly common feeling that artists should not presume to speak for God, that we are going out on a limb with this production. Let me explaine a little what it's about. These are excerpts from the program note I wrote for the reading of this play that occred at Provo Theater Company last Fall: Soon after I had begun writing plays, long ago it seems, in the early eighties (though the seventies feel closer to me), I asked my friend and teacher, Barta Heiner, what I should write about next. She said that she wanted to direct a play about Abraham and Isaac. Thinking and ruminating and pondering and reading (the Old Testament and the Book of Jasher) off and on for a period of time I was finally able to write the thing Barta had asked for. After seven years, I finally handed her Altars. About a year ago I came across this idea for a new play. Don't ask me how I came across it. It was just there one day. Possibly because I was thinking that I needed something else to go with Altars. And it turns out to be a fine match; another biblical setting with three actors of the same gender distribution, a similar theme, again examined from the point of view of a parent -- the mother this time. I had had similar ideas in the past -- ideas for plays that included the Savior as a key figure. Though not just a figure, not just an offstage entity to be discussed by those on stage, but an actual flesh and blood being -- on stage -- participating in the conversation. I suppose -- to some -- that seems like a risky thing to do. I mean, how dare I put words into the mouth of the Son of God? Well, I'm not. Speaking for God. That is not what I am doing, even though there is precedent for it. Mormons believe that when they faithfully, and righteously fulfill their callings, they are speaking for God, acting on his behalf, doing what he would do if he were here. Writing plays is not an official calling from a church leader; it's not even the result of any kind of personal revelatory experience -- it's just something that I know how to do a little better than I know how to do anything else -- and so I do it. And, even though I have not been set apart by my ecclesiastical leaders to do so, I often approach the task with a sense of responsibility to treat this avocation as if it were a calling. When I ponder certain things, questions arise. Questions that really intrigue me. Questions that I want answers to. And so, when I sit down to write, I ask the questions and then I seek to find ways to answer them. Sometimes I think I do all right with the answers; sometimes I just wind up with more questions. Through this process I search for, and sometimes discover what I deem to be truth. I don't for a minute believe that I am a prophet, that I am unraveling the mysteries of the universe for all mankind. I'm just asking questions ... and searching for answers. How does a father get to the point where he can willingly place his most precious offspring upon an altar and spill that child's blood? How does a fallible mother raise an infallible Son? Or does "perfect" truly mean infallible? I do not use any pronouns in these plays. It becomes obvious from the events, as they unfold, who these people are. Or rather, who they are based on. But, by referring to them only as Father, Mother and Son, one of my intents with these plays is to lead the viewer to the understanding that, archetypically, these fathers are ALL fathers, and these Mothers are ALL mothers, and these sons are ALL sons. Also, by referring to them as THE Father, and THE Mother and THE Son, I mean for us to understand that these fathers are the Father, and these mothers are the Mother, and these sons are the Son. In a sense. Nothing is literal in these intentions. I simply want to lead our minds in two directions -- to the great divine souls that are our Father and our Mother and their Son, and to the base mortal beings that are ourselves -- and show that there is a direct connection between the two. So, now I ask this question: If we are to enlighten each others' minds -- if we as artists are to do as Elder Packer says ("... we are able to feel and learn very quickly ... through art ... some spiritual things that we would otherwise learn very slowly.") -- how do we do that without TALKING ABOUT what we feel and learn in our own studies? Clearly artists are enjoined to explicate what they think and feel about the words of God as found in the canon. Rather than condemn an artist for supposedly presuming to put words into God's mouth, perhaps we should ask ourselves as we read the books -- hear the songs -- attend the plays of our brother's and sisters who are artists: Is it possible that God put words into their mouths? J. Scott Bronson--The Scotted Line "World peace begins in my home" "Anybody who sees live theatre should come out a little rearranged." Glenn Close - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Satire (was: An Amusing Anecdote) Date: 12 Mar 2001 15:11:48 -0700 Christopher Bigelow wrote: > > LauraMaery (Gold) Post wrote: << > When one is raised amongst positive, kindly, plain-spoken straight-forward > people, one doesn't naturally acquire the sophism that's needed to "get" > satire. > > I'm not sure that's a bad thing.>>> > > It's similar to diet. If you're raised on oatmeal, bread soaked in milk, traditional roast beef dinners, and the occasional sweet canned peaches without ever trying anything else, then you have your reward. If you were raised to have an adventurous pallet or on your own started seeking the spicier, more challenging stuff in life like irony and satire, the milk and oatmeal seem pretty boring. Satire and irony are quite addictive actually--it's more fun and creative to see the world through those lenses, rather than be an earnest, conforming literalist. Growing up in the age of David Letterman, I breathe sarcasm and satire, but maybe it gives me spiritual ulcers, I don't know. Wednesdays are my favorite day of the week because it's Onion day--but maybe that delicious satirical website makes my breath smell bad spiritually. > Is sarcasm a totally unworthy form of spiritual communication. I've always thought God asking Job, "Where were you when I created the heavens and earth" was a form of sarcasm, "sort of like God, saying "D-uh" to Job. There might be other places in the scriptures where sarcasm exists. It would be an interesting study. When you read the old testament, and they talk about two men covenanting with each other by placing their hands on the other's testicles and swearing an oath, I get the impression that today, we may be too "polite" for our own good. We may have become too refined to appreciate the subtleties in scripture. Thom - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Morris Subject: RE: [AML] Satire Date: 12 Mar 2001 14:23:11 -0800 (PST) --- Christopher Bigelow wrote: Satire and irony are quite addictive > actually--it's more fun and creative to see the > world through those lenses, rather than be an > earnest, conforming literalist. Growing up in the > age of David Letterman, I breathe sarcasm and > satire, but maybe it gives me spiritual ulcers, I > don't know. Wednesdays are my favorite day of the > week because it's Onion day--but maybe that > delicious satirical website makes my breath smell > bad spiritually. > Me and my siblings would have gone crazy long ago if it weren't for satire. While we tended to shy away from outrightly cynical sarcasm, if we hadn't had the option to poke fun at certain elements of both Mormon culture and post-modern, new agey, diversity (for some) California edu-speak culture, we wouldn't have been able to navigate the twin teen terrors of AP classes and YW/YM activities. I think that the spiritual ulcers only come when you let cynicism and sarcasm envelope every mode of discoures you engage in. I don't read the scriptures in an ironic mode. But anything (cultural more, ideological stance) that in my view is not 'inspired' is bound up with the temporal elements of this existence. Satire is how my family highlight the mingling of scripture (and pure practices/desires) with the doctines of men. And we don't excuse ourselves from it either---self-deprecating humor can be used for evil, but it also can reflect genuine attempts to show that we have our own weaknesses without having to get all mushy about it. Besides, I think straight-forward earnestness sometimes carries with it its own brand of manipulation and cynicism----the "you must swallow what I say because I'm being sweet, honest and plain-spoken" brand of discourse that I encounter both in and out of the church on occasion. I suppose that with satire it's all a matter of degree. I thought that Eric Snider's column was good-humored and lacked corrosive cynicism, but I'm already tainted and so perhaps not the best judge. When my thoughts turn to literature, I realize that I want my Mormon satire to be gentle. While I may make fun of my southern Utahn roots, I remain deeply conflicted about them and am interested in neither sarcastic attacks on Mormon provincialism nor nostalgic glorification of a 'small town Mormonness' now lost to modern (urban) culture and technology. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: Re: [AML] YA lit./_The Diary of Anne Frank_ Date: 12 Mar 2001 15:36:37 -0700 Lu Ann, I believe a new "expanded" edition of _The Diary of Anne Frank_ was released in the last year or so. Is this the one you are using? I would be interested in reactions. Roy Schmidt - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Amy Chamberlain" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 12 Mar 2001 15:40:19 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- Growing up in the age of David Letterman, I breathe sarcasm and satire, but maybe it gives me spiritual ulcers, I don't know. Wednesdays are my favorite day of the week because it's Onion day--but maybe that delicious satirical website makes my breath smell bad spiritually. Chris Bigelow Put me in the category of those who have been raised on the Limberger cheese of irony and the pungent, garlicky flavor of satire. I wouldn't have it any other way (and I try to remember to chew the societal Tic-Tacs of kindness and gentleness before I go out in public). Well put, Chris! Amy - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Banana Bread and Goat Cheese (was: YA or Not?) Date: 12 Mar 2001 17:09:40 -0700 Tracie: >I love goat cheese. There is one particularly >luscious kind that starts with a 'g' that I can't remember how to >spell. >The description was 'caramelized goat cheese'. Betcha anything it's a Norwegian goat cheese called Gjeteost. Growing up, = my grandmother always served it, either on lefse (a kind of spongy pocket = bread) or on flatbrod, which is a kind of thin cracker. Loved that stuff. = Then my grandmother would serve it on banana bread and I thought I'd died = and gone to heaven. Best combination of flavors I can think of, the = slightly harsh goat's cheese and the sweetness of banana bread. =20 And so, when I went on my mission, I asked for it. Bananbrod, I called it. = Banana bread. With gjeteost. And people would stare at me, because = Norwegians don't know banana bread at all, and as far as they were = concerned, I was just sticking two words together that aren't related at = all. Like 'fish jello.' Or 'gravel hankie.' Not being terribly bright = at the time, it took me months to finally figure out that banana bread = with goat's cheese was not an actual Norwegian snack, but my own grandmothe= r's idiosyncratic piece of multiculturalism. Very depressing. Except that we are, after all, supposed to be in the world but not of it. = And so, perhaps, we should look at similar unique Mormon+some other = cultural offerings. Like a macrame bong. Or an Elvis needlepoint = sampler. =20 Or something literary. LDS limericks, anyone? Eric Samuelsen - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Allred Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 13 Mar 2001 09:46:00 -0700 One could make the claim that the purportedly first work of Mormon fiction*, Parley P. Pratt's "A Dialogue Between Joseph Smith and the Devil," is satire--in a very broad (and broadside) sense. --Lee on the road in Knoxville, TN *and Mormon sf, too! - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Depictions of Christ Date: 13 Mar 2001 10:18:15 -0700 I do disagree pretty strenuously with the assertion that Jesus Christ = Superstar is an attempt to de-deify Christ. It's nothing of the kind; = quite the contrary. Judas is the protagonist of Superstar, and Judas does = doubt Christ's divinity. But as in the Bible, Judas is wrong. =20 Eric Samuelsen - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Brigham Young Magazine, BYU Alumni Newspaper Merge: BYU Press Release Date: 13 Mar 2001 10:28:11 -0600 Release 12Mar01 A3 [From Mormon-News] Brigham Young Magazine, BYU Alumni Newspaper Merge PROVO, UTAH -- In mid-March, Brigham Young Magazine and the BYU Alumni newspaper will join forces to become BYU Magazine. The magazine will retain several elements of each publication and introduce new features, including a customizable e-mail newsletter and a Web site. "I believe that, for the majority of our alumni, it makes most sense to have one clearly recognizable communication vehicle that connects them to the university at large," says John C. Lewis, publisher of the magazine and BYU associate advancement vice president for alumni and external relations. Discussions about the merger began in 1999 and included a combined readership survey in spring 2000. According to the survey, most alumni (68 percent) approved of the merger. Alumni, friends and current students of BYU can expect an issue of BYU Magazine every three months. Inside the magazine, readers will find campus news and research, advice and essay columns and profiles of BYU alumni, students and faculty. Among the new elements are Speaker's Notes, a two-page condensation of a recent BYU devotional or forum address; Works and Progress, articles about faculty research and activities; and Alumni Resources, a guide containing calendars, phone numbers and other information to help alumni gain access to BYU services and activities. In addition to the magazine, BYU has a new monthly customizable e-mail newsletter, MyBYU News, which contains short summaries of university news and events with links to longer articles online. The newsletter is a university-wide effort coordinated by BYU Magazine, and content will come from all over campus. Through the newsletter's registration Web site (mynews.byu.edu) subscribers can choose the kind of information they would like to receive. MyBYU News is available to any interested individual. BYU Magazine can also be found online at magazine.byu.edu. This Web site offers access to the current issue of the magazine, with additional information on selected articles, and includes a searchable archive of past issues. The site also offers e-cards, BYU-related pictures that visitors can e-mail to friends and family. The staff of BYU Magazine and MyBYU News seek to provide insight into campus life, connect alumni and friends to each other and to the university, and offer material that helps readers continue their educational pursuits. "We hope to educate and connect, to bring BYU to our readers," says editor Jeffrey S. McClellan. "After merging objectives and learning from the strengths of each publication," says Lewis, "the resulting publication will be a new generation of university alumni magazine. I firmly believe that it will serve well the interests of the university and he Alumni Association in providing an informative, exciting communication lifeline." The new magazine will begin arriving in readers' homes about March 14. Copies also will be available in distribution racks around BYU campus. The magazine is sent free to all BYU graduates. To update your address or for questions about subscriptions, contact BYU Alumni Records at 801-378-6740, alumni_records@byu.edu, or 264 Alumni House, Provo, UT 84602. -###- >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 13 Mar 2001 11:27:39 -0700 I forgot to mention that. I use the book in my one man show on old Parley. It's a scream, and, yes, very satirical. Thom Lee Allred wrote: > > One could make the claim that the purportedly first work of Mormon > fiction*, Parley P. Pratt's "A Dialogue Between Joseph Smith and the > Devil," is satire--in a very broad (and broadside) sense. > > --Lee > on the road in Knoxville, TN > > *and Mormon sf, too! > > - > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] YA lit./_The Diary of Anne Frank_ Date: 13 Mar 2001 09:38:22 -0700 Roy Schmidt wrote: > I believe a new "expanded" edition of _The Diary of Anne Frank_ was > released in the last year or so. . . ." I just read in today's paper that several "secret" pages from the diary were published for the first time in a new edition that was released Monday. Apparently these pages deal with (what Anne saw as) her parents' loveless marriage and with her own troubled relationship with her mother. They were left out of earlier editions out of respect for her father who was the only member of the family to survive the Holocaust. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: RE: [AML] Banana Bread and Goat Cheese (was: YA or Not?) Date: 13 Mar 2001 16:16:30 -0500 That's it exactly. I love it with an almost ripe chilled pear. I just ran out of my supply. I'll have to run to the North Market to get some more this week-end. There's a fabulous cheese known as Gjeteost, That's fabulous sliced thin on thin toast. But if you want a real high Give Eric's version a try. Banana bread, gjeteost. It's the most. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 13 Mar 2001 17:45:06 -0500 I've always considered Malachi to be speaking sarcastically when he asks, "Will you rob the Lord?" The notion is laughable of some bandit sticking a spear against somebody's back, they turn around, and it's God! And David, that man after God's own heart, bringing in not just the foreskins of the Philistines, but their "Full Members." Would that fall under sarcasm or irony? Then the irony of a carpenter's son being crucified is not just beyond words but darker than anything the human mind could conceive. If Mormons (oops--that is--Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) are uncomfortable with irony and satire, then they need to read more Bible. Tony Markham - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis Manning" Subject: Re: [AML] Children's/YA Lit by Mormon Authors Date: 13 Mar 2001 15:49:03 -0700 >Sharlee's daughter Erica is Anne Frank. (I just had to slip that in.) And >she's great! I've been watching rehearsals and this YA performance is >absolutely wonderful. Okay, so here's the challenge, YA "supporters and >fans." Are you going to come and see the YA play? Marilyn Brown > What is the name and address of the theatre, again? Travis Manning _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 13 Mar 2001 17:29:19 -0700 Tony Markham: >Then the irony of a carpenter's son being crucified is not just >beyond words but darker than anything the human mind could conceive. >If Mormons (oops--that is--Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of >Latter-Day Saints) are uncomfortable with irony and satire, then >they need to read more Bible. Excellent point: Real life is full of irony (and by all means, LET'S have a huge argument over the precise meaning of the term "irony"). Irony, sarcasm and satire are all different things, but are often related, and I don't think any of them is inherently un-Christian or bad. Speaking, as we were, of scriptural examples, one of my favorites is Alma 57:10. Helaman is telling of how the Nephites captured a Lamanite city. In this verse, he says: "At length their provisions did arrive, and they were about to enter the city by night. And we, instead of being Lamanties, were Nephites; therefore, we did take them and their provisions." This is great! He's using "Lamanites" as a derisive term -- one that, no doubt, said everything it needed to say to his readers. ("Oh, right," the readers would think. "'Lamanites.' I know how THEY are.") The verse suggests, "Instead of doing what the Lamanites would have done, which would have been to screw up the whole maneuver, we were Nephites and got the job done right." I guess this would fall under the "sarcasm" heading, though it's certainly an example of regionalism, too. (A reader in Palestine would have had no clue what he meant, except from already having read the Book of Mormon.) It was an effective means of communicating, too. With one word -- "Lamanites" -- Helaman conveyed a lot of information. I imagine it being the same as a college student might say, "Don't be such a freshman." I've heard "deacon" used in a similar sense. It doesn't indicate any lack of respect for the priesthood or the office of a deacon. It just means we've had a lot of experience with rambunctious 12-year-old boys, and so have our listeners, who know exactly what we mean when we use the word that way. Eric D. Snider -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: [AML] Humor--Where Did This Originate? Date: 13 Mar 2001 17:31:26 -0700 I'm sending this bit of humor along partly because some of it is funny, but also because I'm curious where it came from. It was forwarded to me by e-mail, and I know there are a lot of humorists on this list, so I thought maybe someone knew its author. Eric D. Snider Why Did The Chicken Cross The Road? (According to a poll of LDS members) Laman: To usurp the authority of his older brother chickens and to take possession of their coop. J. Golden Kimball: Why the hell else would he cross the road? To get to the other side, dammit! Brigham Young: Because this is the right place in the road. Paul H. Dunn: I remember one time when a chicken wandered into my foxhole on Iwo Jima. . . Thomas: I don't really believe the chicken crossed the road. Noah: Are you sure there weren't two chickens? Lilburn W Boggs: I don't care which side of the road the chicken's on, you have permission to kill it. Elder's quorum president: It was the 31st and he had to get his home teaching done. Relief Society president: That's where the refreshments were. The Doctrine and Covenants: "The duty of a chicken is to cross the road when there is no other poultry present." Mark Hoffman: Would you like to buy the chicken's original diary documenting his crossing of the road? Lamoni's servants: We don't know why it crossed the road; all we know is its wings had been cut off. Martin Harris: I have never denied seeing the chicken cross the road. Temple Square guide: The acoustics are so good you can hear the chicken cross the road from any seat in the Tabernacle. President Merrill J Bateman: I'm not so much concerned that the chicken crossed the road but that its feathers were not knee-length. Gerald Lund: Not only did this chicken cross the road, but his whole family crossed the road as well. The grand, panoramic story of this chicken's family will be told in my soon-to-be-released 36 volume set "The Cluck and the Glory." Lorenzo Snow: As the egg is, the chicken once was; as the chicken is, the egg may become. -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: RE: [AML] Satire Date: 13 Mar 2001 20:18:33 -0700 Christopher Bigelow wrote: >It's similar to diet. If you're raised on oatmeal, bread soaked in >milk, traditional roast beef dinners, and the occasional sweet >canned peaches without ever trying anything else, then you have your >reward. If you were raised to have an adventurous pallet or on your >own started seeking the spicier, more challenging stuff in life like >irony and satire, the milk and oatmeal seem pretty boring. Satire >and irony are quite addictive actually--it's more fun and creative >to see the world through those lenses, rather than be an earnest, >conforming literalist. This is a completely false dichotomy, though one that a lot of people fall into. One need not give up literalism to appreciate satire or irony. In fact, one must have a firm grounding in the one to appreciate the other. And I certainly don't think they're esthetic opposites, with literalism as purely non-artistic and uncreative. For me, the best satire rides a razor's edge with literalism, and could not exist were it not for the earnest. I love good satire as much as the next guy (though I think there is a stunning paucity of good satire these days; most of it is just broad, mean-spirited sarcasm masquerading as satire), but a constant diet leaves one just as bored with satire as with a constant diet of any other form. And non-conformity for its own sake still makes one a slave to conformity--just from the other, reactionary side. Here's to expression in the form that best meets the speaker's need--be it literal, satirical, or somewhere in between! Scott Parkin - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Children's/YA Lit by Mormon Authors Date: 13 Mar 2001 20:28:26 -0700 Thanks for asking, Travis. It's the Little Brown Theatre, 239 S. Main in Springville. Take Exit 263, go east, stop and Main street and turn right for one and one half blocks. Come! You'll love it! Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] YA lit./_The Diary of Anne Frank_ Date: 13 Mar 2001 20:51:01 -0700 Thank you, LuAnn! If anyone else is connected with a school at all, would you please tell them about this? Give a note to your eighth grade teacher. This is really an excellent production! Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Boyd Petersen Subject: [AML] Re: Satire Date: 13 Mar 2001 22:32:10 -0700 About Utahns not "getting" satire, a quote that I heard recently attributed to Bela Petsco seems appropriate: "People in Utah aren't innocent, but they are ignorant." Eloise Bell's essay "When Nice Ain't So Nice" also comes to mind. I don't think it's because we're (I say "we" because I'm from and live in Utah valley) positive, kindly, or plain-spoken here. In fact, we frequently act quite the opposite, although we often present our positive, kind face while we are thinking our most unkind thoughts. I think one of the reasons we don't get satire is because of a willful ignorance about things that we just don't want to deal with, usually things that challenge us to look at the dark side of ourselves and our culture. --Boyd Petersen - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] Jesus Christ Superstar (was: Depictions of Christ) Date: 14 Mar 2001 00:29:28 -0700 "Eric R. Samuelsen" wrote: > I do disagree pretty strenuously with the assertion that Jesus Christ Superstar is an attempt to de-deify Christ. It's nothing of the kind; quite the contrary. Judas is the protagonist of Superstar, and Judas does doubt Christ's divinity. But as in the Bible, Judas is wrong. In an interview with Andrew Lloyd Webber, Tim Rice, or both, (I can't recall), one of them said the main message of the opera was the lyrics in the title song, which clearly questions the divinity of Christ. He complained that religious leaders were being too hard on them, because they were only asking questions. But the song does not ask sincere questions. They ask mocking questions that are intended to belittle the belief in the divinity of Christ... "Did you mean to die like that, was that a mistake or Did you know your messy death would be a record breaker?" Neither choice allows the possibility that his death was part of a divine atonement. It was either a mistake or a grandiose attempt at posthumous fame. He was, after all, Jesus Christ SUPERSTAR. I also disagree that there's any hint in the opera that Judas is the person in the wrong. On the contrary, he is set up as the misunderstood hero who is driven to suicide in the end because he is so misunderstood. Christ himself doubts his divinity and mission as well, but unlike _Last Temptation of Christ_, there is no clearcut message in the end that he is divine after all. He's just a guy who, as Judas says, let things get way out of hand. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] Jesus Christ Superstar Date: 14 Mar 2001 08:22:24 -0700 on 3/14/01 12:29 AM, D. Michael Martindale at dmichael@wwno.com wrote: > "Did you mean to die like that, was that a mistake or > Did you know your messy death would be a record breaker?" > > Neither choice allows the possibility that his death was part of a > divine atonement. Unless the answer to the first question is, "No," and the answer to the second is, simply, "Yes." > I also disagree that there's any hint in the opera that Judas is the > person in the wrong. On the contrary, he is set up as the misunderstood > hero who is driven to suicide in the end because he is so misunderstood. > Christ himself doubts his divinity and mission as well, but unlike _Last > Temptation of Christ_, there is no clearcut message in the end that he > is divine after all. Judas was definitely the bad guy in the broadway touring company production I saw a couple of years ago at the Capitol Theatre in SLC. And as for a sign of his divinity? During the final song, the body of Christ floated forward off the cross into nothing but air, and then ascended up into the fly space--I interpret that as divinity. :-) Maybe it depends which production you hear/see. Steve -- Steven Kapp Perry, songwriter and playwright http://www.stevenkappperry.com http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: RE: [AML] Satire Date: 14 Mar 2001 09:49:29 -0600 I'm not so sure that Mormons are that much less aware of satire, irony, and the like than most other Americans. Getting back to the original post, I've taught freshmen both at BYU and at two schools in southern California (UC Riverside and Riverside Community College). I don't recall BYU freshmen as being particularly worse than my California freshmen at "getting" irony. In fact, it's a notable phenomenon in teaching freshman composition, almost anywhere you go, that one of the hardest things is teaching inexperienced college students that the writers they are looking at may not *mean* what they are *saying*. (Actually, the ones I taught often had trouble even telling the difference between when an author is restating someone else's position to refute it, and the author's own position.) Students must literally be educated to understand and detect irony. This isn't because those students don't use sarcasm, satire, and even irony themselves, but (as I think someone else has already pointed out), the cues to irony tend to be subtle and very community-bound. If you aren't a member of the community, it's very hard to know if something is intended seriously or not. It may be apocryphal, but I know I've heard of someone actually delivering Babbitt's satiric speech to a group of business leaders and having them seriously applaud it. And didn't we just have someone post to the List an account of the person who wrote to the Reader's Digest using "news" accounts from The Onion as the basis for complaining about the Harry Potter stories? I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not because Americans are dumb, either, or even that our culture is unsophisticated--which it very well may be; but I don't think that lack of awareness of literary irony is necessarily good evidence for that. Irony, parody, satire, and even sarcasm are all subversive in some way--using subversive in a technical sense: that is, they subvert a code, message, or text that was originally intended seriously. As such, they tend to be markers for discourse among members of subgroups who do not wholly buy into the discourse of the larger group. Of course, there are times when an entire group may adopt an ironic stance toward something that the same group took seriously in the past--I remember in the book _Random Harvest_, by James Hilton, how a patriotic play that had been performed seriously during World War I in England was still being played a dozen years later as a farce. But the essential point I am trying to make is that irony (and its stronger cousins) isn't generally intended to speak to a large audience. Rather, it's a code to other members of our own small subgroup, signalling (in some way) our dissension from the values (whether moral or esthetic) of the larger group. If we aren't a member of that subgroup, we probably won't "get it"--nor are we intended to get it--though we may well realize that there's something odd going on. A corollary to this is that the characteristic stance of irony, parody, and their like is an assumption of superiority--superiority to their target, even when the target is oneself. (Which makes, many think, the best and healthiest kind of irony of all.) So when one is in the mode of appreciating (or generating) irony or satire, I think it's easy to look down one's nose at those who don't "get it"--such a stance is built into the very practice. In many cases, however, those who don't get it may not lack intelligence, or sophistication, or even a tendency toward irony themselves--all they may lack is a knowledge of our particular community and stance, so they aren't trained to pick up the signals in the irony we generate. Or they may have different values than we do, and therefore be disinclined to buy into our particular ironic stance. After all, irony isn't monolithic. Rather, it's like reflections in a mirror: you can have an infinite number of different reflections, depending on where you place the mirror. I've gone on overlong (I have work waiting for me, which may be one reason why I've spent so long on this...), but I want to finish by making clear that I'm not opposed to irony, satire, and their various cousins. I think they serve a variety of useful functions, not least (when properly directed) that of keeping us from taking ourselves too seriously. But I think that more than most types of discourse, they are "coded" in a way that makes understanding dependent on the possession of specialized knowledge. Which means (among other things) that literature which takes an ironic stance is likely always to have a more limited audience than literature which takes a more straightforward approach. Jonathan Langford Speaking for myself, not the List jlangfor@pressenter.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 14 Mar 2001 10:12:56 -0700 Jonathan Langford wrote: > > And didn't we just have someone post > to the List an account of the person who wrote to the Reader's Digest using > "news" accounts from The Onion as the basis for complaining about the Harry > Potter stories? I once delivered a talk in Sacarament as if I were addressing a meeting of the fictional anti-Mormons, in which I attempted, through sarcasm (delivered in my best General Authority imitation), to undermine typical anti-Mormon arguments. (I had C.S. Lewis' _The Screwtape Letters_ in mind while I constructed this talk which I was sure would thrill my listening audience). Judging by the blank looks of everyone as I sat down, my attempt to use sarcasm went over like a lead balloon. Thom - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: RE: [AML] Banana Bread and Goat Cheese (was: YA or Not?) Date: 14 Mar 2001 11:09:30 -0600 Over on the Mormon Poets List (mpl) on Topica, there are plenty of LDS limerick-ers and limericks sloshing about. :-) Like Tracie's lovely verse on goat cheese. Linda - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Irreantum2@cs.com Subject: [AML] Winter 2000-2001 _Irreantum_ Date: 14 Mar 2001 12:41:14 EST The nonprofit Association for Mormon Letters is pleased to announce publication of the winter 2000-2001 issue of IRREANTUM, our literary quarterly devoted to exploring fiction, drama, poetry, and other literature BY or ABOUT Mormons. This 128-page issue is mostly devoted to speculative fiction (science fiction and fantasy), featuring a cover interview with novelist Dave Wolverton, six works of speculative fiction, and two essays assessing the Mormon speculative fiction experience. This issue also features an interview with Mormon short story writer Mary Clyde, who recently won the Flannery O'Connor Award and whose collection of short stories, SURVIVAL RATES, has just been released in paperback by Norton. Following is the issue's full table of contents. If you would like to order a copy of this issue, send a check for $4 (postage is included) to AML, 262 S. Main St., Springville, UT 84663. For a four-issue subscription, send $12. For more information about the Association for Mormon Letters and IRREANTUM magazine, visit www.xmission.com/~aml. Spring 2000-2001 contents: Editorial: Many Modes of Mormon Expression, Scott R. Parkin News of the Association for Mormon Letters Interviews Dave Wolverton Mary Clyde Essays "Nietzsche Was Right" and Other Pitfalls in Depicting Evil in Fiction, Lee Allred Fantastic Journeys: Mormon Authors Say Faith Informs Their Science Fiction, Kimberly Winston Fiction And All Our Banners Flying, M. Shayne Bell The Glowing, Thom Duncan Dead People, Russell William Asplund Holy Wars: Book One of Sergeyev's Covenant, Diann Thornley Take out the Trash, Melva L. Gifford For the Strength of the Hills, Lee Allred Poetry The Missionary's Return, Michael R. Collings Celebration, Michael R. Collings Christ of Universe, Michael R. Collings *Blothisojan, Michael R. Collings Positronic Love Affair, Linda Paulson Adams Madwoman's Bane, Linda Paulson Adams Breadcrumbs, Jane D. Brady Summer, Darlene Young How to Make a Dragon, Sapphire Hodges Sin and Simile, Gideon Burton Reviews Disoriented, Michael Ritchey Reviewed by Preston Hunter Enchantment, Orson Scott Card Reviewed by D. Michael Martindale Ingathering: The Complete People Stories, Zenna Henderson Reviewed by Preston Hunter The Gathering Storm, Kenneth R. Tarr Reviewed by Jeff Needle Selected Recent Releases Mormon Literary Scene AML-List Highlights [Please forward this post to any individuals or groups who may be interested.] [Chris Bigelow] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 14 Mar 2001 13:25:33 -0700 Eric D. Snider wrote: >Irony, sarcasm and satire are all different things, but are often >related, and I don't think any of them is inherently un-Christian or >bad. In fact, I think humor in general is not only a good thing, but is a necessary part of being like God. I think a great many things in creation are intended as humor, but most of us just don't have enough information or perspective to get the jokes. And I think irony is one of God's favorite forms (or course most of human history is a satire of itself, but I think that's an accident of human effort, not the deterministic plan of a jovial deity). I think Christians in general (and Mormons in particular) get just a little too prickly when it comes to humor about our culture, history, or doctrines. Part of it is that the basis of humor is to point out the silliness of a situation, and Mormons are so worried about getting it absolutely *right*--or at least most(ly) correct--that we find it hard to laugh at our own foibles. To err is sin, and humor is based on error, be it error of timing, manners, understanding, or acts. And sin is a very serious business that we dare not make light of. So humor is right out. Never mind the doctrine of opposites or the fact that a lack of humor smacks of inappropriate pride. The fear that making light of our own mistakes might suggest a lack of spiritual focus is too great. So Mormons have become (generally, if not specifically) humorless. Which is too bad, because we desperately need a good satire on Mormon life and habit to help us back away from the brink of terminal inability to see that our own actions sometimes need to change--or in other words, that we might stand in need of repentance. And while there are plenty of folk who are willing to point the finger at *them* Mormons, I would like to see more of the loving, inside humor about *us* Mormons. Unfortunately, this is often the kind of humor that is most often criticized by the very culture that should appreciate it most. We shall see... Scott Parkin (who is often accused of humorlessness--and not without reason--but whose own sense of humor tends to run toward absurdism, second meanings, and obscure pop culture references, thus reducing my audience to approximately one; but at least I keep myself amused) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 14 Mar 2001 17:09:56 -0700 And let us not forget Deuteronomy 23: 12-14, "Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad; And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when that wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee: for the Lord thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he sees no unclean thing in thee, and shall turn away from thee." Roy Schmidt - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 14 Mar 2001 18:06:37 -0700 > >(who is often accused of humorlessness--and not without reason--but whose >own sense of humor tends to run toward absurdism, second meanings, and >obscure pop culture references, thus reducing my audience to approximately >one; but at least I keep myself amused) Well, at least now I understand why I don't always understand Scott's humor, since I am literal-minded and remote from pop culture. I can appreciate a good satire or a good parody, but I don't like the kind of mean-spirited sarcasm that passes for humor in today's sitcoms. I don't see anything amusing about one character insulting or humiliating another. That in itself is not inherently funny. I believe that my grandchildren have learned to speak in a disrespectful, sarcastic manner from the horrible stuff they watch on the boob tube. They've come to see it as a normal, natural form of communication. They've learned not to try it with me, though. barbara hume, who believes in respecting one's elders now that she's turning into one - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Subject: [AML] Interview with Richard Dutcher Date: 14 Mar 2001 18:44:33 -0700 Listers, Here's the URL from an informative and interesting (once the first obligatory questions were past) with Richard Dutcher ("God's Army") about his new murder mystery, "Brigham City." Steve -- Steven Kapp Perry, songwriter and playwright http://www.stevenkappperry.com http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] HOWARD on Final Nebula Ballot Date: 14 Mar 2001 19:41:14 -0700 David Howard's script for _Galaxy Quest_ is on the final ballot for the 2000 Nebula Awards, given by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America. The awards will be presented in April at the 2001 Nebula Awards weekend in Los Angeles. For more info on the awards in general, see: http://www.sfwa.org/news/nebfin00.htm http://www.sfwa.org/awards/current.htm http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-books.html?2001-03/07/11.00.books Marny Parkin - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Morris Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 14 Mar 2001 19:19:03 -0800 (PST) I have enjoyed the examples of satire from scripture that list members have been posting. Orson F. Whitney's _Love and the Light: An Idyl of the Westland_, the epic didactic poem published in 1918, contains some hilarious satirical moments. These moments are not aimed at Mormon culture itself but instead are used for a didactic purpose--deflating institutions of the 'gentile' world. Here's one of my favorite passages [with apologies to anyone who has taken a substantial hit from the latest bear market]: "Here, where gambling finds its glory/ 'Mid the loud unseemly scramble/ Of 'the pit'---oh proper typing!/ Where, in wild unequal struggle,/ Men in manner like to demons,/ With their mad gesticulations/ And their frantic cries and shriekings,/ Symbolize the Pandemonium/ Told of in Miltonic story!" --And a few lines later-- "What you deem success is failure,/ What you count for profit, loss is,/ And your Juggernaut of 'Progress'/ Toward a precipice is plunging." (page 100). There's much more in the poem, including a hilarious portrait of a pompous academic. [slight digression: my favorite part of the poem, though, is the description of the Grand Canyon, which will form the basis of my next project a manifesto for Mormon literature, or rather, Whitney's Grand Canyon section as a model for Mormon literary production, directions and presumptions] But I still haven't made up my mind how these passages affect the overall tone of the poem. The melding of satire with attempts to proclaim 'the poetic/prophetic truth" kind of seems strange. I think the main thing is that there often isn't enough of a stylistic difference or change in register between the two sections so that it's hard to take the serious sections seriously. I wonder how 'mainstream' Mormon readers would respond to the poem these days. ~~William Morris unseemly scramble l __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gae Lyn Henderson" Subject: RE: [AML] Satire Date: 14 Mar 2001 21:24:39 -0700 How about a copy of that Thom? Gae Lyn -----Original Message----- I once delivered a talk in Sacarament as if I were addressing a meeting of the fictional anti-Mormons, in which I attempted, through sarcasm (delivered in my best General Authority imitation), to undermine typical anti-Mormon arguments. (I had C.S. Lewis' _The Screwtape Letters_ in mind while I constructed this talk which I was sure would thrill my listening audience). Judging by the blank looks of everyone as I sat down, my attempt to use sarcasm went over like a lead balloon. Thom - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Jesus Christ Superstar Date: 15 Mar 2001 00:13:44 -0700 Steve wrote: > Judas was definitely the bad guy in the broadway touring company production > I saw a couple of years ago at the Capitol Theatre in SLC. And as for a > sign of his divinity? During the final song, the body of Christ floated > forward off the cross into nothing but air, and then ascended up into the > fly space--I interpret that as divinity. > > :-) > > Maybe it depends which production you hear/see. Absolutely. There is nothing in the original opera to suggest the ascension scene. The last song in the opera is named after a verse in the Bible that simply describes Jesus' burial. Curtain. Fade out. End of story. The same was true with Godspell, generally considered a much more pro-Christian work. It too ignored the resurrection. The film has Christ's body being carried away by his disciples, then life in New York City presses in on its daily routine. But the production I saw in Provo many years ago showed Christ alive again and dancing with the disciples during the finale reprise of "Day By Day." Individual production choices don't count when assessing the intent of the author. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 15 Mar 2001 00:24:38 -0700 Jonathan Langford wrote: > I want to finish by making clear > that I'm not opposed to irony, satire, and their various cousins. I think > they serve a variety of useful functions, not least (when properly > directed) that of keeping us from taking ourselves too seriously. Not to exclude your theory about why people don't get irony, but I think another, simpler reason may exist for not getting it: some people just take themselves too seriously, and when irony comes along and threatens to burst that bubble, they take it very personally. Dare I make this outrageous statement? I think irony is a healthy thing: it's a barometer for who is too full of himself. In that regard, those who do get irony are superior to those who don't. But in the middle of saying that, I get the strong urge to qualify my statement. After all, I don't like certain forms of satire: specifically those forms that belittle things which are important (sacred) to me. Satire which pokes fun at humans for being human is great; satire which ridicules sacred and important principles is not. Of course, then we're back to what Jonathan said--what is sacred and important depends on your personal set of values and what community you belong to. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: harlowclark@juno.com (by way of Jonathan Langford ) Subject: [AML] Doug and Donlu Thayer (Was Update: Gene England) Date: 15 Mar 2001 10:20:54 -0600 On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:37:29 -0700 "Brown" writes: > I love kudos like these, and especially for Doug and Donlu. > Thank you, posters. > Marilyn Brown My father read pomes (Love Seamus Seoyce's words, and pennyeach is about what my father's earned on his pomes) at BYZ about a week before AML and afterward Susan Howe, Bruce Jorgensen, Doug Thayer, and the grad student coordinating the readings and my parents and me (am I missing anyone--or should that be who am I missing? (Donlu had to go to class or study for the LSAT--she said if she didn't pass it this time she'd give up. Hope she passed it. Had a nice chat with her, always do) went over to the Skyroom. Doug asked me what I was writing and I told him I was doing some newspaper writing. A few minutes he asked what I was writing artisitcally. I told him I was getting ready to pick up on adapting a short missionary novel into a play, something I started doing a few years back and found it really opened up the characters. (I already like dialogue more than description.) I also said I was working on a reporter's notebook (Hunter James' _Smile Pretty and Say Jesus_ (how Tammy Fae Bakker used to great her audience before going on the air) was so intriguing I want to try the form.) title mostly--called "The Last Dog is on the Gallows." We talked about the metaphor in the title--which I'm sure no publisher would like. Too gruesome. The title reflects my sense that if you stay around till the end of city council meetings you hear some wonderful stories. (Jeff Acerson told this story at the end of Tues. night's city council meeting about a man peering in his window with binoculars, and then he left and Acerson went out and followed him and he went down to an elemntary school in Orem then to Oak Canyon JHS in Lindon. "He probably didn't think I was following him." Acerson said to himself, "He's scoping children out," so he went home, said, "Karen, call the police," then went back down to OCJHS and the police arrived shortly after that and confronted the man and he said something like he was birdwatching. and the police had Acerson pick him out of a lineup, "just to make it a slam dunk.") So this book is about all the stories that don't get into the newspaper because I didn't have room or for some other reason, like how Kevin Smith, Lindon planning director, found out how many people there were in the city (8300) by asking ward membership clerks. (Of course, the Our Towns section of the Herald is nice for quirky stories ("serious hometown news," editor Sharon Gholdston calls them) and I already wrote Jeff Acerson's story there about some boys who were kidnapping ducks for an early am duck roast (it's on www.harktheherald.com, just look in the archives for harlowclark.)) Anyway, I was moved to think that Doug cared enough to ask (twice!) what this particular no-'count was writing. (I think of myself as a horny teenager ("Me too," my father said about 4 years ago, just about the time Kristen Randle left AML-List--miss her) and realize with a start sometimes that I'm actually old enough to be the father of 2 teenagers. Odd thing, back in the days when I still thought I could teach I found myself one day twice as old as my freshpeople students, then a few years later found that my father had lived long enough, 84, to be only twice as old as me.) One more thing about Doug Thayer and his generosity of spirit. I've heard a lot about Signature as a disreputable, yea, even apostate, press, but a couple of years ago at the closing plenary session of the Literature and Belief symposium, Doug said, "Signature kept Mormon literature alive for 20 years." (Now, back to semi-lurkdom, I promise.) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 15 Mar 2001 00:26:07 -0700 Thom Duncan wrote: > I once delivered a talk in Sacarament as if I were addressing a meeting > of the fictional anti-Mormons, in which I attempted, through sarcasm > (delivered in my best General Authority imitation), to undermine typical > anti-Mormon arguments. (I had C.S. Lewis' _The Screwtape Letters_ in > mind while I constructed this talk which I was sure would thrill my > listening audience). > > Judging by the blank looks of everyone as I sat down, my attempt to use > sarcasm went over like a lead balloon. You need to deliver that sermon at the next AML conference. That I've got to hear. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 15 Mar 2001 02:13:21 -0600 At 12:39 12-03-01 -0700, J. Scott Bronson wrote: >Unless you will >claim that I am hopelessly cynical, I'm pretty sure that section 122 of >the Doctrine and Covenants is some of the best irony I have ever >encountered, bordering on satire. When the Lord says to Joseph, "If >'this' should happen to you or 'that' should occur," it is obvious to >Joseph at least, that those things have ALREADY happened to him and so >the Lord employs irony to make his point. And he caps it off brilliantly >with this, "The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou >greater than he?" The answer to this question is SO obvious that the >Lord doesn't even wait for the answer; he goes right on with the point, >which is, "You ain't seen nothin' yet. I have frequently gotten that answer to a prayer. My question, then, is often "Is that a promise or a threat?" (I.e., is what I haven't seen yet something positive or something negative?) Unfortunately, I seldom get a clear answer to _that_ question . . . -- Ronn! :) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Satire (was: An Amusing Anecdote) Date: 15 Mar 2001 02:19:47 -0600 At 15:11 12-03-01 -0700, Thom wrote: >Is sarcasm a totally unworthy form of spiritual communication. I've >always thought God asking Job, "Where were you when I created the >heavens and earth" was a form of sarcasm, "sort of like God, saying >"D-uh" to Job. There might be other places in the scriptures where >sarcasm exists. It would be an interesting study. How about D&C 130:15, "if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old"? Perhaps not sarcasm as such, but certainly "I know better than you, and this isn't going to happen." -- Ronn! :) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 15 Mar 2001 02:23:52 -0600 At 09:46 13-03-01 -0700, Lee Allred wrote: >One could make the claim that the purportedly first work of Mormon >fiction*, Parley P. Pratt's "A Dialogue Between Joseph Smith and the >Devil," is satire--in a very broad (and broadside) sense. > >--Lee >on the road in Knoxville, TN If I were you, I'd at least pull over to the side before typing e-mail. Though not as bad as Utah drivers, Knoxville drivers are still likely to hit you if you are stopped in the middle of the road to fool with your computer. -- Ronn! :) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 15 Mar 2001 09:14:34 -0700 Gae Lyn Henderson wrote: > > How about a copy of that Thom? Sadly, I seem to have lost it. It was one of the few talks for Sacrament I actually wrote, but it has long disappeared. -- Thom Duncan Member of the Playwrights Circle, a group of professionals Read about the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: RE: [AML] Interview with Richard Dutcher Date: 15 Mar 2001 09:00:31 -0700 I didn't see a URL for the Dutcher interview. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 6:44 PM Listers, Here's the URL from an informative and interesting (once the first obligatory questions were past) with Richard Dutcher ("God's Army") about his new murder mystery, "Brigham City." Steve --=20 Steven Kapp Perry, songwriter and playwright http://www.stevenkappperry.com http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 15 Mar 2001 09:22:34 -0700 And of course, _The Screwtape Letters_ was reviewed by one aghast Christian as "positively diabolical!" > Thom Duncan wrote: > > > I once delivered a talk in Sacarament as if I were addressing a meeting > > of the fictional anti-Mormons, in which I attempted, through sarcasm > > (delivered in my best General Authority imitation), to undermine typical > > anti-Mormon arguments. (I had C.S. Lewis' _The Screwtape Letters_ in > > mind while I constructed this talk which I was sure would thrill my > > listening audience). > > > > Judging by the blank looks of everyone as I sat down, my attempt to use > > sarcasm went over like a lead balloon. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 15 Mar 2001 11:42:20 -0700 On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:24:38 -0700, D. Michael Martindale wrote: >Not to exclude your theory about why people don't get irony, but I think >another, simpler reason may exist for not getting it: some people just >take themselves too seriously, and when irony comes along and threatens >to burst that bubble, they take it very personally. Dare I make this >outrageous statement? I think irony is a healthy thing: it's a barometer >for who is too full of himself. In that regard, those who do get irony >are superior to those who don't. > >But in the middle of saying that, I get the strong urge to qualify my >statement. After all, I don't like certain forms of satire: specifically >those forms that belittle things which are important (sacred) to me. >Satire which pokes fun at humans for being human is great; satire which >ridicules sacred and important principles is not. Of course, then we're >back to what Jonathan said--what is sacred and important depends on your >personal set of values and what community you belong to. I think that this is why LDS people do not like satire as a rule. It's = not that we have no sense of humor. It isn't that we don't get it. But we = see ourselves as the bearers of Truth in a world of falsehood. We aren't = blind to our faults, but we'd rather gloss over them or keep them as hidden as possible to mitigate the risk that the Truth will be ignored due to our personal frailties. We're human. We know that. We have faults, we know that too--and privately, we may laugh at them. But we'd much rather stay= on message than be diverted to our humanity in public. We have a divine mission and we want to take our personalities out of the lime light as = much as possible as a result in order to make the message paramount (this also explains the bland missionary uniform and other cultural blandnesses). Is this fear as was mentioned earlier on the list? I don't know. Sort = of, I guess. But it isn't a personal fear. We want to protect our dignity, = but in a weird deflected way--not because we don't want to admit our flaws, = but because we don't want our flaws to affect our message. Each member of = the church feels very personal responsibility to be a missionary; to spread = the gospel. We don't want to spend time defending ourselves to others. We = are content that our defense lies with Christ anyway. So we want our flaws buried and want to put forward our best foot--not for personal vanity, = but for clarity of message. We don't want our flaws compounded into sin = because they were used by somebody to not accept the gospel. It isn't that we don't have humor. It's that we don't want the humor to distract from the very serious message we bear. And while humor may be useful for opening a door, the deepest messages of the gospel just aren't very funny. Jacob Proffitt - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] AML-List Down March 21-25 Date: 16 Mar 2001 13:34:23 -0600 Folks, I will be out of town (paradoxically closer to many of you) attending a wedding in Utah March 21-25, so the List will be down at that time. (I may get a few late posts in on the morning of the 21st before I leave, but will not count on it.) So please take this into account, and if there are any time-sensitive announcements you want to make, get them in on Tuesday, March 20 at the latest! (It's okay to send message to the List during that time--they'll just sit there until I get back...) Jonathan Langford AML-List Moderator - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] Where's the Little Brown? Date: 15 Mar 2001 13:15:00 -0700 > Thanks for asking, Travis. It's the Little Brown Theatre, 239 S. Main in > Springville. Take Exit 263, go east, stop and Main street and > turn right for > one and one half blocks. Come! You'll love it! Marilyn Brown Minor detail: when you get to Main Street turn LEFT (rather than right) and go north one and a half blocks. The Little Brown Theatre is a storefront on the right (east) side of the street. -- Scott Tarbet (Van Daan) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Doug and Donlu Thayer (Was Update: Gene England) Date: 15 Mar 2001 15:25:17 -0700 Did this person put his or her name on the letter? Marilyn Brown [MOD: My oops. This was a post from Harlow Clark that for formatting reasons had to undergo some contortions before I could send it out over the List. In the process, I apparently lost Harlow's name--though if anyone's style is distinctive enough to tell even without a name it's probably his...] ----- Original Message ----- > My father read pomes (Love Seamus Seoyce's words, and pennyeach is about > what my father's earned on his pomes) at BYZ about a week before AML and > afterward Susan Howe, Bruce Jorgensen, Doug Thayer, and the grad student [snip the rest] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] Satire Date: 15 Mar 2001 16:58:02 -0700 > Of course, there are times when an entire group may adopt > an ironic > stance toward something that the same group took seriously in the past--I > remember in the book _Random Harvest_, by James Hilton, how a patriotic > play that had been performed seriously during World War I in England was > still being played a dozen years later as a farce. But the essential point > I am trying to make is that irony (and its stronger cousins) isn't > generally intended to speak to a large audience. Rather, it's a code to > other members of our own small subgroup, signalling (in some way) our > dissension from the values (whether moral or esthetic) of the > larger group. If we aren't a member of that subgroup, we probably won't > "get it"--nor are we intended to get it--though we may well realize that > there's something odd going on. > Jonathan Langford I can't help but be reminded of Scott Card's short story "Pageant Wagon" in his collection _The Folk of the Fringe_ (Tor, 1989), which gives us a family of LDS thespians called by the leadership of the post-nuclear-apocalypse Church to travel from town to small frontier fringe town presenting a patriotic pageant that idealizes the history of a U.S. government that no longer exists. To members of the small overlapping subgroups of LDS science fiction fan thespians (!!) the code of irony and satire is sublime. The further away one gets from the miniscule subgroup the more the irony and satire fade away. -- Scott Tarbet - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eileen Stringer Subject: [AML] Influential Authors (O.S. Card) Date: 15 Mar 2001 13:39:35 -0700 I belong to a C.S. Lewis discussion group and we have of late been listing our 10 most influential authors/books. Suffice it to say that Lewis, Tolkien, Geogre MacDonald and Dante have the most votes thus far, but there was one author that received a vote and I wanted to share this with the list. (I did receive from the author to quote him.) Begin quote: "10. Card. Ender's Game. I choose this as an example of this author's work. Orson Scott Card, a Mormon, is fascinated by many of the same kinds of issues that I am. His answers are different, of course, but the stories are marvelous. Thanks for this opportunity. In Him, Al Brooke" End quote Eileen Stringer eileens99@bigplanet.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "mcnandon" Subject: [AML] Re: Satire Date: 05 Jan 2001 12:46:45 -0700 Ogden Nash was a master of satire. You history buffs may be interested in this poem he wrote about Senator Reed Smoot. My aunt Anita Parkinson married Senator Smoot's son Harlow. This material was much funnier in yesteryear when smut was just slightly naughty. Now that porn has become such a horrible problem, it loses something. INVOCATION ("Smoot Plans Tariff Ban on Improper Books" --NEWS ITEM) Senator Smoot (Republican, Ut.) Is planning a ban on smut. Oh root-ti-toot for Smoot of Ut. And his reverent occiput. Smite, Smoot, Smite for Ut., Grit your molars and do your dut., Gird up your l--ns. Smite h-p and th-gh. We'll all be Utah By and by. Smite, Smoot, for the Watch and Ward, For Hiram Johnson and Henry Ford, For Bishop Cannon and John D., Junior, For Governor Pinchot of Pennsylvania, For John S. Sumner and Elder Hays And possibly Edward L. Bernays, For Orville Poland and Ella Boole, For Mother Machree and the Shelton Pool. When smut's to be smitten Smoot will smite For G-d, for country, And Fahrenheit. Senator Smoot is an institute Not to be bribed with pelf; He guards our homes from erotic tomes By reading them all himself. Smite, Smoot, smite for Ut., They're smuggling smut from Balt. to Butte! Strongest and sternest Of your s-x Scatter the scoundrels >From Can. to Mex! Smite, Smoot, for Smedley Butler, For any good man by the name of Cutler, Smite for the W.C.T.U., For Rockne's team and for Leader's crew, For Florence Coolidge and Admiral Byrd. For Billy Sunday and John D., Third, For Grantland Rice and for Albie Booth, For the Woman's Auxiliary of Duluth, Smite, Smoot, Be rugged and rough, Smut if smitten Is front-page stuff. Years ago I looked up all these names. I wish I had kept a copy. I don't have time to look them up again. Nan P. McCulloch - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] Satire Date: 16 Mar 2001 07:55:40 -0700 Scott Parkin said: > So Mormons have become (generally, if not specifically) humorless. Like fundamentalists of every stripe we are nothing if not prone to take the slightest hint of "ought" and turn it into a rock-etched commandment. Viz: many of us turn a stricture on coffee and tea into a prohibition on cola drinks via tortured speculation on why coffee and tea are bad. Must be the caffeine, right? God hates caffeine, so God drinks Sprite. Fundamentalist Baptists took a teaching from the 19th Century that had them avoiding dance halls because of the alcohol served there, and turned it into an overall stricture on dancing that still hasn't completely disappeared. So when we're urged to avoid loud laughter it contributes to our overall humorlessness. I was actually taught as a (more than a little boisterous) teen that any laughter louder than would be appropriate in Sacrament Meeting is inappropriate anywhere else. (As Sherman Potter would say, "HORSE HOCKEY!!") That would mean that any humor that would be inappropriate in Sacrament Meeting is inappropriate anywhere, and as others have pointed out, irony and satire just don't fly in Sacrament Meeting. All of that begs the fact that the Prophet Joseph had a rollicking sense of humor, so much so that a few long-faced people had trouble accepting him as a prophet because of it. It also begs the fact that if God didn't have a tremendous sense of humor I for one would have been zapped to a cinder long since. Instead I think He gets a good laugh out of my foibles sometimes. -- Scott Tarbet - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] Satire Date: 16 Mar 2001 08:00:43 -0700 > I wonder how 'mainstream' Mormon > readers would respond to the poem these days. > > ~~William Morris "Mainstream" Mormon readers don't read poetry longer than would fit into a greeting card. -- Scott Tarbet - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN New Film from Director of God's Army Premieres April 4: Excel Entertainment Press Release Date: 15 Mar 2001 20:39:01 -0600 Entertainment Press Release 14Mar01 A2 [From Mormon-News] New Film from Director of God's Army Premieres April 4 in Gala Benefit Celebration SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- In a gala celebration complete with red carpet, limos and celebrities signing autographs, the new film from the director of GOD'S ARMY will premiere on Wednesday, April 4 at Jordan Commons. All proceeds from tickets sales at the premiere of BRIGHAM CITY will go directly to benefit the Utah Foster Care Foundation. Representatives of the foundation will be present at the premiere to help raise awareness of the need for more foster care families in Utah. Free events open to the public surrounding the premiere include a free concert from bluegrass sensations RYAN SHUPE & THE RUBBERBAND (who make cameo appearances in BRIGHAM CITY), a prize drawing, and appearances from the stars of the film, including writer / producer / director / co-star RICHARD DUTCHER and MATTHEW A. BROWN, best known for his starring role as Elder Allen in GOD'S ARMY. The free concert will start at 6 p.m. outside the Megaplex 17 at Jordan Commons. Cast members will begin arriving at the red carpet at around that same time. Ticket holders may enter the theater and have autographs signed by the cast of the film, and the premiere will begin at 7 p.m. Tickets for the world premiere are $20 and go on sale at the Megaplex 17 at Jordan Commons on Friday, March 16. For additional details call 801-304-4577. The Utah Foster Care Foundation, which will benefit from the premiere, is a private, non-profit organization whose mission is to recruit, train, and retain foster care families. Since its inception in 1999, the Foundation has helped increase the number of foster care families in Utah by over 25%. BRIGHAM CITY tells the story of a small, fictional Utah town that is rocked to the core when a stranger is found murdered near her car. Dutcher plays the county sheriff who is also a Mormon bishop in the sleepy town. Brown plays his eager young deputy. Anticipation surrounding the release of the next "Mormon Film" has been high. The filmmaker has been tight-lipped as to the content of the film, only revealing that the plot centers around a murder that occurs in the picturesque (fictional) town of Brigham, shattering its tranquility and testing the limits of its faith. So far even the film's rating has remained a mystery. ### >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 15 Mar 2001 13:08:47 -0600 Would any of you fellow authors (especially Moms with children at home underfoot, or men for whom writing is your secondary occupation) like to share with me what your writing schedules are? How do you make it work? Especially those of you who might be publishing on a regular basis? When I dilly-dallied at it, it was easy to work in here and there; now that I'm on deadlines and needing to produce copy on a schedule, I find it's so much more difficult to figure out when to get it done. I'm not a prolific writer by nature and now I am under pressure to be (nobody wants to wait 5 years for the sequel to my first book, and neither do I, really). Instead of giving me encouragement to press forward, it seems that publishing, (even having my second book sold before it's written), is giving me only headaches and writer's block and stress. Has anyone else gotten through this stage successfully? A lot of my first book was written between 12 and 3-4 A.M., and I just can't keep hours like that like I used to. The characters and their stories aren't keeping me awake like they used to, either. Help? Thanks! Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Pacific Island Films To Tell Martin Handcart Story: Pacific= Date: 15 Mar 2001 20:40:37 -0600 Island Films Press Release 14Mar01 A2 [From Mormon-News] Pacific Island Films To Tell Martin Handcart Story SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- Jongiorgi Enos, Co-President of Pacific=20 Island Films and Producer, Director and Screenwriter, will direct the=20 feature-length film "The Long Walk of Patience Loader", an historical=20 drama in which American emigrants triumph over adversity and find=20 religious freedom. Scheduled to begin filming in Utah and Wyoming this July, the movie=20 traces the arduous, 1,300 mile journey of the Edward Martin handcart=20 company across the plains to Utah in the fall of 1856. Caught in an=20 unseasonal blizzard, large numbers of the company of 500 people died=20 of starvation or froze to death. Seen through the eyes of Patience Loader, a young woman in her=20 twenties, this poignant film uses first-hand accounts of the pioneers=20 gleaned from the diaries and journals that they kept while making the=20 westward exodus. The movie features stylized re-creations of select=20 events that set this American experience apart as one of the truly=20 heroic events of the 19th century. To be filmed in New York, Wyoming, and Utah, "The Long Walk of=20 Patience Loader" visits actual Mormon Trail locations. Just as the=20 Spanish Trail, the Oregon Trail, and the Trail of Tears mark rich=20 periods in American history, "The Long Walk of Patience Loader" tells=20 another chapter in the settlement of the West with the story of a=20 courageous group of pioneers seeking religious freedom at all costs. Over a period of 20 years, beginning in the winter of 1846, more than=20 70,000 men, women, and children trekked to the Salt Lake Valley along=20 the Mormon Trail. Led by Brigham Young, most of the emigrants walked=20 the incredible 1,300-mile distance, carrying their earthly=20 possessions in covered wagons and handcarts as they traveled across=20 Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, and Wyoming into Utah, with the first group=20 arriving at the Great Basin on July 24, 1847. Filled with the fervor and fortitude of the Mormon pioneers who were=20 part of that general migration, this landmark movie will recount the=20 story of some five hundred pioneers from the eastern United States,=20 Canada, England, the European continent, and South Africa. They=20 traveled on ships, canal boats, trains, and riverboats and then came=20 on foot in wagon trains and handcart companies. "The Long Walk of Patience Loader" shows why this phenomenal journey=20 was so significant in the historical fabric of the United States.=20 Forsaking all they knew =97sometimes leaving behind friends and family=97=20 these emigrants moved toward the unknown with hope for a new start=20 and a better life. Plagued by religious persecution, these Mormons=20 relocated from upstate New York, to Kirtland, Ohio, to Independence,=20 Missouri and to Nauvoo, Illinois before being driven West. While the=20 two-decade long migration saw thousands perish due to sickness, harsh=20 weather, and the elements, the Mormon journey is seen as a tremendous=20 success and a testament to human endurance. For Latter-day Saints, the handcart story, particularly the account=20 of the Willie and Martin companies, has unfortunately darkened the=20 collective memory of the westering saga. But that episode should be=20 remembered for the unparalleled gallantry exhibited by so many,=20 immigrants and rescuers alike. Of particular note is the superb=20 performance of the women; their courage and mettle contributed=20 enormously to the eventual survival of both companies. It was at once=20 the most ill-advised and tragic, the most heroic, and arguably the=20 proudest single event in the Mormon pioneer experience Sweetwater Films, a division of Pacific Island Films, will raise $2.5=20 million to produce "The Long Walk of Patience Loader'. Production of=20 the movie is timed to coincide with Sea Trek 2001 (the re-enactment=20 of the historic European migration to America in tall ships) and the=20 domestic release of the film is tentatively scheduled during Winter=20 Olympics in Salt Lake City in February, 2002. International release=20 will follow thereafter. The producers of the film, Jongiorgi Enos and Steve Stubbs, will=20 conduct an international search for descendents of Patience Loader=20 and also descendents of the surviving Martin handcart company=20 members. One hundred of these descendents will be randomly chosen to=20 attend the movie's premiere in Salt Lake City in 2002. Mr. Enos has almost 25 years of industry experience in theatre,=20 television and film both in front of and behind the camera, and is a=20 prolific writer with an extensive library of original works currently=20 in development. Mr. Enos was the associate producer of the low-budget=20 feature, "Girl Crazy", which was sold to HBO/Cinemax, and has=20 performed in close to 100 productions since his youth. He has worked=20 with Richard Dutcher ("God's Army"), Helen Hunt, Mike Farrell, Paul=20 Sorvino, Mercedes Reuhl, Bernie Kopell, Stanley Brock, Sonny Fox,=20 Greg Louganis, James Wilder, Dion Anderson and others. Currently, Mr.=20 Enos has a major supporting role in Zion films=92 "Brigham City", which=20 will begin its national release on April 6, 2001. After eight years working at the executive level of the Hollywood=20 studios in legal and marketing, and after over 24 years working=20 hands-on in every creative aspect of film, theatre and television,=20 Mr. Enos will be deeply involved in every facet of the production=20 process on "Patience Loader". >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Subject: [AML] Richard Dutcher Interview/With the URL Date: 16 Mar 2001 10:24:41 -0700 Listers, (Here we go once more, this time WITH the URL included.) Here's the URL from an informative and interesting (once the first obligatory questions were past) with Richard Dutcher ("God's Army") about his new murder mystery, "Brigham City." http://www.meridianmagazine.com/arts/010309bc.html Steve -- Steven Kapp Perry, songwriter and playwright http://www.stevenkappperry.com http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] Utah Arts Council Writing Competition Date: 16 Mar 2001 09:55:42 +0900 I found this list of winners of the 42nd Utah Arts Council writing competition on their web site. I assume these are for 2000. I recognize a few of the names as peole we have seen before in the Mormon lit world, including Kroupa, Staheli, Rawlins, and Fisher. Novel 1st "The Last Pieta of Michel Agniolo" Gerda Saunders (SLC) 2nd "A Paiute Wind" Reed H. Blake (Provo) Hon Men "Priest Killer" Susan J. Kroupa (Orem) Hon Men "Farr Trials" Caroll M. Shreeve (Ogden) Nonfiction Book 1st "Thoughts of a Reluctant Mom" Elaine Turner Lamb (SLC) 2nd "Conversation With the Earth" M. Dane Picard (SLC) Collection of Poetry 1st "Alphabet of Flight" Nancy Takacs (Wellington) 2nd "Mapping Desert" Scott Hatch (Springville) Hon Men "Touching the Meridian" Jennifer Tonge (WVC) Hon Men "We Navigate the Shining Eye" Deb Hohenthal (SLC) Juvenile Book 1st "Just Like Elizabeth Taylor" LuAnn B. Staheli (Spanish Fork) 2nd "Pascal's Ghosts" Eugene Woodbury (Orem) Hon Men "From a Cardboard Box" Kim W. Justesen (Sandy) Poetry 1st "Thirteen" Nancy Takacs (Wellington) 2nd "Birthmark" Christine Allen-Yazzie (SLC) Hon Men "Stuck Fast Under Thatch" Rita M. Bowles (SLC) Hon Men "What They're Used To" Mikal Lofgren (SLC) Hon Men "As Above, So Below" Steven J. Stewart (Provo) Short Story 1st "The Statistical Christ" Lynne Butler (SLC) 2nd "Big Hondo Angel" Paul Rawlins (SLC) Hon Men "Lily's the Maid" Wendy M. Rawlings (SLC) Hon Men "Cliff-dweller" Stephanie Rosenfeld (SLC) Hon Men "Silence Sits Immense" Mette Ivie Harrison (Provo) Hon Men "Refuge" Ken Rand (West Jordan) Personal Essay 1st "Dante In Mexico" Andrew Hoffman (SLC) 2nd "Bear Lake Solo" Franklin Fisher (SLC) (Andrew Hall) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Huls Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 16 Mar 2001 13:42:48 -0600 Jacob Proffitt wrote: > [Clipped some good stuff,]..................... So we want our flaws > buried and want to put forward our best foot--not for personal vanity, but > for clarity of message. We don't want our flaws compounded into sin because > they were used by somebody to not accept the gospel. > > It isn't that we don't have humor. It's that we don't want the humor to > distract from the very serious message we bear. And while humor may be > useful for opening a door, the deepest messages of the gospel just aren't > very funny. > > Jacob Proffitt While I agree that many of the Gospel Messages do not respond to humor. I have found that God has a great sense of humor. Recently a member of the 1st Quorum of Seventy was at our Stake Conference. He told how he had come into a calling once as Stake Mission President with grandiose plans and program and fell on his face. He told how his successor developed a "love them and teach them" approach and succeeded. We all laughed and I, for one, enjoyed knowing that one who serves in high position is human like me. To get back to the Lord's sense of humor. He called me out of a Bar to put me in as a counselor in a Branch Presidency. I thought that was funny! It changed my life. Later I worked with alcoholics in a ward, with first hand experience. Where would I have been if God did not have a sense of humor? I shudder to think. I believe we need to encourage all to think, satire does that. Perhaps we should warn the audience first. Craig Huls - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: [AML] Speaking of Satire... Date: 16 Mar 2001 13:37:31 -0700 Those of you interested in the satire thread may find this URL: http://www.thekomosportal.com/id55.htm entertaining and, since it has to do with a modern-day religious prophet who comes from upstate New York, appropriate to a discussion on Mormon satire. -- Thom Duncan Member of the Playwrights Circle, a group of professionals Read about the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 16 Mar 2001 12:27:22 -0700 [MOD: This is an attempt at editing out the multipart MIME stuff with HTML tags that some of your e-mail programs seem to send automatically and that other e-mail programs can't stomach. Please let me know if anything appears odd about this message.] Anne Perry has agreed to be IRREANTUM's cover interview for our summer 2001 issue. I've read a little bit about her, but I personally haven't read any of her fiction yet. I wonder if I could ask for suggestions from anybody on provocative questions to ask Anne on any broad-ranging subjects appropriate for IRREANTUM, meaning they need to touch base with Mormonism and/or literature. "Tathea" will be an obvious topic, but hopefully we can range broader than that. Go ahead and respond to the list in case your question ideas spark other ideas. I will compile the questions for Anne's response. I'd like to give the questions to her soon, so don't delay. Thanks, Chris Bigelow Managing editor, IRREANTUM - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Picht Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 16 Mar 2001 15:59:59 -0600 Barbara Hume wrote: > I can appreciate a good satire or a good parody, but I don't like the kind of > mean-spirited sarcasm that passes for humor in today's sitcoms. I don't see > anything amusing about one character insulting or humiliating another. I think that one problem that people who express a dislike for irony, satire, parody and sarcasm have is that they do associate it with the nasty stuff that passes as humor on TV. They associate it with the eternal verbal one-upmanship that absorbs sitcom characters - putdowns, smugness, cruelty. TV humorists have no affection for the targets of their wit, but generally seem to hold them in contempt. They see the world through cynical eyes, so their humor leaves a bitter aftertaste. Parody should be done only with charity, that is, the pure love of Christ, and it should be sharp only when we're moved by the Spirit. I'm a literal-minded man, not prone to irony and too fearful of seeming cruel to indulge in sarcasm or satire. Still, I appreciate such humor from others when they avoid unnecessary cruelty (there's no reason, and it would be foolish, to avoid necessary cruelty), when their wit is informed by love. I admit to enjoying unintentional ironies, though I wonder whether Stalin's "life is better now, comrades, life is more happy," a slogan launched in the exhuberant years of the 1930s, wasn't really the product of a brilliantly droll mind. Joseph Visarionovich was likely a delightful dinner guest. I digress. I understand the difficulties of the LDS faithful when confronted with irony, satire, or even run-of-the-mill knock-knock jokes; our leaders are serious men, and to emulate them requires that we be serious, too. I recall Vaughn J. Featherstone's comment at a mission conference years ago, "laughter deforms the face and makes a man seem a fool." Paul H. Dunne (sp?) remarked that "[laughter] approximates a seizure." I recall Gordon B. Hinkley fixing some light-minded deacons with a basilisk stare that cracked the chappel foundation and caused the Relief Society president to exclaim from the opposite side of the building that she suddenly felt frigid. Who can forget Elder McConkie's 9th sign of apostacy, being amused by aardvarks? As if there could be anything funny about a creation of God! We live in dangerous times, the Latter Days. We must live life with a singularity of purpose, dedication to the building up of the Kingdom on Earth. Souls are being lost to _Friends_ and to _Will and Grace_, and laughter is inappropriate in the face of this spiritual Holocaust. Yes, satire may be a tool of God (we've stipulated that He has a sense of humor), but it's too much like sex, a tool that can inflame the passions and that we will misuse if we don't restrain it within the limits set for us. None of us is qualified to use it in public - you might just as well fondle your wife on Temple Square - and we should probably be called by priesthood authority to use it in private. Even so, Bart Simpson rocks. Jim Picht - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gerald G Enos Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 16 Mar 2001 15:35:47 -0700 I wouldn't mind this information either. With 4 young kids and another one on the way, I find I spend most of my waking hours doing chores and have no time to write. My muse does not keep me up at night like it used to. If it doesn't have anything to do with the hormones it might have something to do with age. Middle age is creeping up on me faster then I'd like to admit. Konnie Enos ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 16 Mar 2001 22:58:19 Jim Picht said: >I digress. I understand the difficulties of the LDS faithful when >confronted >with irony, satire, or even run-of-the-mill knock-knock jokes; our leaders >are >serious men, and to emulate them requires that we be serious, too. I recall >Vaughn J. Featherstone's comment at a mission conference years ago, >"laughter >deforms the face and makes a man seem a fool." Paul H. Dunne (sp?) remarked >that "[laughter] approximates a seizure." I recall Gordon B. Hinkley fixing >some light-minded deacons with a basilisk stare that cracked the chappel >foundation and caused the Relief Society president to exclaim from the >opposite >side of the building that she suddenly felt frigid. Who can forget Elder >McConkie's 9th sign of apostacy, being amused by aardvarks? As if there >could >be anything funny about a creation of God! > Wow. Satire in a thread about satire. Brilliant! I almost didn't get it. I think I might have told this story before. If so, just smile and nod politely, like when you hear President Monson tell the story about the sick widow for the 10th time. (I love Pres. Monson. Just makin' a little joke there.) When I was at BYU, I wrote a column that detailed my experience covering a session of general conference in the Tabernacle. (Actually, I wrote one each conference for two years, but it was the last one that caused trouble.) I didn't make fun of the general authorities or the things they said. I did talk about dozing off and my mind wandering -- if anything, I suppose I made fun of myself for having human foibles in the midst of such a great learning opportunity. Anyway, I received a letter from Lee Bartlett, who was some kind of adviser or something to President Bateman. He was shocked and appalled at what I'd written, and how I'd belittled the brethren not once but six times. I looked more closely at my column. He had arrived at the number six because that's how many times I mentioned a general authority by name. In other words, any time a GA was mentioned, Lee Bartlett took that to mean I was making fun of that GA. In fact, that was never the case. But to Lee Bartlett, merely mentioning something (or someone) holy in a humorous context is the same as making fun of it (or him). In other words, if a joke starts, "A man walks into a bar...," that means you're making fun of bars. "Why did the chicken cross the road?" makes fun of both chickens and roads. "There once was a man from Nantucket" makes fun of the fine people of Nantucket. To some people, "telling a joke about" is the same as "making fun of," when in reality they're light years apart. And even if you are "making fun of" someone, that's still not the same as ridiculing, satirizing or mocking them. I'd say "making fun of" can be a very innocent, light-hearted thing, and something even our deadly-serious leaders sometimes do. Eric D. Snider _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Hugh Subject: [AML] Brent HUGH, _Music of the Human Genome_ on Wired Date: 16 Mar 2001 17:09:03 -0600 Right now, my recent composition "Music of the Human Genome" is at #32 out of Mp3.com's approx. 1,000,000 MP3 tracks. FWIW, that puts it, for at least one small moment, above such well-promoted "Hits" as "The Way You Love Me" by Faith Hill and "Let's Dance" by David Bowie . . . but still well behind Eric Clapton & Madonna (rats!). On reason "Music of the Human Genome" has been doing well on MP3.com is that it has been getting good press coverage. You can read about it on Wired: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,42306,00.html The St. Joseph News-Press (very long URL): http://www.stjoenews-press.com/Main.asp?TypeID=1&ArticleID=13916&SectionID=81&SubSectionID=354&S=0&UID=200403 "Music of the Human Genome" is at http://mp3.com/Brent_D_Hugh or http://artists.mp3s.com/artist_song/1301/1301401.html --Brent +++++++++++++++++ Brent Hugh / bhugh@mwsc.edu +++++++++++++++++ + Missouri Western St College Dept of Music, St. Joseph, MO + + Piano Home Page: http://www.mwsc.edu/~bhugh + + Earthquake Fugue: http://mp3.com/stations/MathMusic + +++ Music of the Human Genome: http://mp3.com/brent_d_hugh +++ - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 16 Mar 2001 16:13:34 -0700 >Anne Perry has agreed to be IRREANTUM's cover interview for our summer 2001 >issue. I've read a little bit about her, but I personally haven't read any >of her fiction yet. I wonder if I could ask for suggestions from anybody on >provocative questions to ask Anne on any broad-ranging subjects appropriate >for IRREANTUM, meaning they need to touch base with Mormonism and/or >literature. I've read a few of her Victorian mysteries. They are dark and horrible in terms of subject matter--some I have been unable to finish. But I see in them a concern for humanity. She goes on and on about the hideous waste of life in the Crimean War because of government stupidity, the waste of talent because of the oppression and restriction of women, and similar subjects. But I see little that's hopeful in the books, and that's why I don't enjoy them, despite her obvious skill. I suppose you can't show things improving when you set your stories in the 1850s, because things were the way things were. Maybe she wants to point out the distasteful aspects of humanity, or perhaps there is nothing didactic whatsoever. But it seems to me that a good writer wants a story to have meaning, not just exist as a narrative. I'd love to know what effect she wants her books to have on her readers. She's wonderful with characterization. One of the most intriguing fictional characters I've ever met is her detective hero, William Monk, who wakes up in hospital after a serious carriage accident with total amnesia. He has to continue his investigation of a brutal murder, at the same time concealing his condition so he won't lost his job, at the same time trying to find out what kind of man he is. He gets only bits and pieces of his memory back. And I thought my life was tough! Another question I'd like to ask her: Does she have it in for the upper classes? I've read only a few of her books, but the villains are always aristocrats who consider themselves higher life forms than the rest of us. Is she generalizing, or does she just like for her villains to be the kind of people who make Monk come round to the back door because he is only a policeman? Maybe the Charlotte and Thomas Pitt books are less dismal. I haven't tried them. I'm kind of afraid to. You all know I'm not a fan of the dark, dreary, dismal, and depressing in literature. barbara hume - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: katie@aros.net Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 16 Mar 2001 16:24:24 -0700 (MST) I know Rachel Nunes has made a kind of science of working writing into her schedule; she even provides an outline of a typical day on her website (www.ranunes.com). But she's got a bunch of kids and still writes multiple books every year. And she says her house is clean, too. My question to Rachel, and anyone else in a similar situation, is: How much time per day, generally speaking, do you spend writing? I'm still trying to figure out how much is enough and how much is too much. It's too easy to keep writing and let other (more important?) things go. I'd be interested in how to deal with writer's block and deadline pressure also. Anyway, hang in there, Linda! --Katie Parker - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli (by way of Jonathan Langford ) Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 19 Mar 2001 09:11:15 -0600 David Letterman--Ah, I remember him well as the sportscaster and sometimes weatherman at my old Indiana home station. Every since I met him in Los Angeles, before he became a "star" I haven't cared for him. Very stuck on himself at even that time. Too bad what fame can do to a person's ego. Amy Chamberlain [MOD: actually Chris Bigelow] wrote: Growing up in the age of David Letterman, I breathe sarcasm and satire, but maybe it gives me spiritual ulcers, I don't know. Wednesdays are my favorite day of the week because it's Onion day--but maybe that delicious satirical website makes my breath smell bad spiritually. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 17 Mar 2001 09:03:39 -0700 Very interesting Craig. Are you new on the list? Can you tell us a bit more about yourself. I'm interested! Thanks for responding to Jacob's post. Marilyn Brown ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 12:42 PM [snip] > > To get back to the Lord's sense of humor. He called me out of a Bar to put me in > as a counselor in a Branch Presidency. I thought that was funny! It changed my > life. Later I worked with alcoholics in a ward, with first hand experience. > Where would I have been if God did not have a sense of humor? I shudder to > think. I believe we need to encourage all to think, satire does that. Perhaps we > should warn the audience first. > > > Craig Huls - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 17 Mar 2001 09:06:10 -0700 This is great that you got her agreement, Chris! I for one would just like to know how she joined the church. I mean I think that might be a part of the interview--even her testimony, etc. Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Utah Arts Council Writing Competition Date: 17 Mar 2001 09:18:07 -0700 Hooray! Congratulations to LuAnn Steheli and Paul Rawlins, whose names we recognize! Wonderful! Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Where's the Little Brown? Date: 17 Mar 2001 09:20:36 -0700 Thank you, Scott. I get my lefts and rights mixed up all the time. Bless you! Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 1:15 PM > > Thanks for asking, Travis. It's the Little Brown Theatre, 239 S. Main in > > Springville. Take Exit 263, go east, stop and Main street and > > turn right for > > one and one half blocks. Come! You'll love it! Marilyn Brown > > Minor detail: when you get to Main Street turn LEFT (rather than > right) and go north one and a half blocks. The Little Brown Theatre is a > storefront on the right (east) side of the street. > > -- Scott Tarbet (Van Daan) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: RE: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 17 Mar 2001 11:53:32 -0500 When I first started reading Anne Perry, it was her Charlotte and Thomas Pitt ones I read. In fact, that's how I figured out she was LDS. One novel centered around a woman (dead) who had been involved in a new religion. The C & T ones are dark as well. It is their enduring relationship that help lighten the tone somewhat. At least as I remember them. Tracie -----Original Message----- Maybe the Charlotte and Thomas Pitt books are less dismal. I haven't tried them. I'm kind of afraid to. You all know I'm not a fan of the dark, dreary, dismal, and depressing in literature. barbara hume - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "LauraMaery (Gold) Post" Subject: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry (was: Satire) Date: 17 Mar 2001 09:01:23 -0800 >> I wonder how 'mainstream' Mormon >> readers would respond to the poem these days. Scott Tarbet responds: >"Mainstream" Mormon readers don't read poetry longer than would fit into a >greeting card. Are you distinguishing LDS readers from some other group? Hockey players, perhaps? Three-legged people? Dog breeders? Presbyterians? Just curious why you'd specify mainstream Mormons in an accusation that -- in my experience -- applies univerally. Moreover, blaming Mormons -- or anyone else -- for not reading something that hasn't been popular -- or even available -- since Longfellow's time seems a bit odd. Do you know any sane person who's been producing fabulous must-read book-length poetry in the past couple of years? --lmg, greeting-card reader --------- WHAT DO WE DO? We homeschool! Here's how: "Homeschool Your Child for Free." Order your copy today, from Amazon.com. --------- . - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Picht Subject: Re: [AML] Brent HUGH, _Music of the Human Genome_ on Wired Date: 17 Mar 2001 16:05:21 -0600 Brent Hugh wrote: > Right now, my recent composition "Music of the Human Genome" is at #32 out > of Mp3.com's approx. 1,000,000 MP3 tracks. Is this, perchance, the same music based on the human genome that was featured on NPR's morning news program? Jim Picht - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] Utah Arts Council Writing Competition Date: 17 Mar 2001 15:32:55 -0700 Andrew, Yes. These were the winners for 2000. Thanks for noticing! Lu Ann B. Staheli Andrew Hall wrote: > I found this list of winners of the 42nd Utah Arts Council writing > competition on their web site. I assume these are for 2000. I recognize a > few of the names as peole we have seen before in the Mormon lit world, > including Kroupa, Staheli, Rawlins, and Fisher. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 17 Mar 2001 16:22:48 -0700 Stephen King says he writes 10 pages a day every day until his current project has been rough drafted. He starts in the morning and doesn't stop until his quota is done. In his book On Writing he suggests a part-time writer might try five pages a day. I've been trying to write 5 pages a day while my 9th grade students are writing and so far it's gone fairly well. I missed a day or two, but last week I wrote 11 pages in one day! The new project is up to 68 pages already. He also suggests you only give yourself one season (three months) to finish a rough draft of a book. He feels it keeps the project fresh. When it comes right down to it though, the way we write is as unique as the things we write. Lu Ann Staheli - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: Re: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 17 Mar 2001 22:41:07 -0500 Chris wrote: >Go ahead and respond to the list in case your question ideas spark other >ideas. I will compile the questions for Anne's response. I'd like to give >the questions to her soon, so don't delay. I've always been curious to find out whether she saw _Heavenly Creatures_, and what her reaction was. For those who don't know, this film is an account of a friendship Perry had as a child in New Zealand in which she and her friend killed her friend's mother after finding out they were going to be separated. It's an amazing film, one of my favorites, and was directed by Peter Jackson, who's also directing the upcoming _Lord of the Rings_ film trilogy -- and Perry was portrayed by Kate Winslet (her first real film role, three years before _Titanic_). But from what I understand, a lot of the script was guesswork and artistic license, so I'd like to hear Perry's take. It would be interesting to see if this episode in her life is one of the reasons she chose writing murder mysteries as a career, and particularly interesting to see how or whether it played a role in bringing her to the church later in life. On the other hand, I would imagine there's a good chance she won't want to talk about it at all. Eric D. Dixon "And when the milkman comes leave him a note in the bottle Penguin dust, bring me penguin dust, I want penguin dust" -- Gregory Corso - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Morris Subject: Re: [AML] Richard Dutcher Interview Date: 17 Mar 2001 22:01:53 -0800 (PST) >From the Richard Dutcher interview: "There's an idealism that I struggle with also. I think in our hearts we are all striving for the City of Enoch or Zion-which has to be an adult re-creation of the Eden we lost. I think there are a lot of people who really want to be a part of that Zion. There's a certain sadness that comes from being a part of a society where that's not really possible." I have mixed feelings about this observation. On the one hand, I think that I know what Dutcher is speaking about and believe that it could be a rich vein for Mormon literature to mine. The desire for Zion, the demands of the world---create a whole range of responses in Mormons. Exploring the reasons for and the ultimate ends of these responses could make for fascinating, vibrant reading, especially in a long-form text like the novel. On the other hand, this sadness, this yearning reminds me too much of all those sensitive young artists in literature who get crushed by the world----Goethe's _The Sorrows of Young Werther_ would be the prototype---because they live too much in the ideal (of beauty, of art) they construct, and it all falls to pieces when reality breaks rudely in. So my question is: Is there a way to deal with this sadness that Dutcher is speaking about without falling into the old dichotomies, the dashed Utopian dreams (either works that are already out there, or theories about how they could be produced)? ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rachel Ann Nunes" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 18 Mar 2001 00:43:22 -0800 Okay! You convinced me. I'll tell ALL my deep, dark secrets about how I get my writing done. This is going to be one long e-mail, so beware. Keep in mind that I'm writing this at after midnight, and that I've been known to say funny (odd) things when I'm tired. Basically, I do my writing first thing in the morning after my husband takes the three oldest of our five children to school. I don't bother with the dishes or the laundry or ANYTHING else until I get my work done. The only exception is that I do stop to comfort, feed, play with, diaper my two little boys who are still at home. I don't answer the phone, respond to e-mail, or even get dressed. Many times I pick my children up at school and I'm still in my pajamas. So what? If you had a "real" job, you'd have to do it each day, and it's the same with writing. A regular time and a word (not time) goal can help you achieve wonders. Forget rearranging the desk or wiping off the counter. You can do that later. (Or better yet, get someone else to do it.) If I had no interruptions, I could finish writing in two hours, but it usually takes me five with all the times I stop to take care of the little ones. If I forget my rule and post on a e-mail list or answer the phone, or decide to go for a spontaneous walk with the boys, I might have to leave the computer on until three when I pick up my children from school. If not, I could have time to run to the store or the post office before I have to collect them. (Yes, I would change out of the pajamas for this, but not for the bank because they have a drive-up.) If I organize my day in this way, there is plenty of time for cleaning, homework, and hobbies after the older children come home. It's important also to delegate. I know you can clean, cook, and doing almost everything else in the house better than your children (and probably your husband), but DON'T DO IT. Give your children chores and allow your husband do his share. I have to pause here and add a disclaimer since my husband always does his share, or more. He's also a great cook, while I burn almost everything I make. Since I'm home, though, I'm the one who usually throws the meal together. The entire family cleans up together after dinner. So where was I? Oh yes, delegation. My eleven-year-old son cleans two of our bathrooms and the TV room every day. My nine-year-old daughter sweeps the kitchen and entryway and then spot-mops the tile. Our other daughter who's seven cleans the playroom, the mudroom, and puts away the clean dishes. Our four-year-old helps with the playroom and organizes the toys I have in a corner of my office. All of them clean their own rooms and fold and put away their own laundry. Yes, even the four-year-old. This basically leaves everything looking clean except the counter which is my domain.(I hate anything on the counters!) To top off the week, on Saturday we all spend two to three hours cleaning the entire house together. This is when we show the kids how chores are really supposed to be done during the week. Dresser tops, closets (in bedrooms), the garage, bathtubs, and infrequently used rooms in the house are also included. We feel that learning to work in this manner is an important part of our children's education. And guess what? The children really do a good job. They didn't at first years ago, and it was very difficult to teach them responsibility, but I don't have to worry about the house now. I even have time to dust the piano on Saturdays. The point is, you have to write. Even when the words aren't coming. I firmly believe that until you actually have enough on computer to tempt the muse, he won't be visiting with great ideas. About the ideas not keeping you awake at night as they once did. That could be a problem. Perhaps try thinking about the story after you get into bed at night. Plot out a direction to see where the story might go, or create a dialog in your mind. Keep pencil and paper handy just in case you get a new idea you're afraid of forgetting, but mostly use this time to encourage your subconscious to work on the problem/plot while you sleep. Then in the morning, you are raring to go. Hopefully. Now I'm going to include some tips here that are on my website. You can't imagine how many people ask me how I find the time to write, so I posted a few suggestions on-line. I actually added a few and expanded as I went through them tonight before sending this to the list. These tips may or may not apply to you, depending on where you are at in your writing career. I also have some tips for avoiding writer's block on my website. To see them visit http://www.rachelannnunes.com and click on "For aspiring writers." Good luck ladies (and gentlemen). I hope something I've said helps. If you have any specific questions or need clarification, I'd be willing to answer as long as my writing goal is finished for the day! By Rachel Ann Nunes A big misconception people have is that you have to have a lot of free time to write. Ha! What it takes is weeding out the unnecessary stuff in your life so you can make time for writing. I know many talented people, both men and women, who say they long to write but don't (not even a little) because of family or work concerns. They think that someday they'll have time, someday they'll get it done. The truth is that your kids'll grow up, but you'll still be busy. Your deadlines at work aren't suddenly going to change. If you want to write, YOU MUST WRITE--even if only a few minutes a day. Children can learn to respect your few hours at the computer, especially if they know you're there for them if they really need you. Or if you're employed outside the home, maybe you can get up earlier in the morning to write before you go to work. The rewards will far outweigh the loss of sleep. I think a lot of reluctance people have is the fear of failure. I know that for me, it was very frightening to stare at that first blank computer screen and realize that now I had no excuses. I would fail or succeed. Remember that if you don't try, you've already failed. And make it a good try, not some half-hearted wimpy thing. If you don't give up, you will succeed. Try these timesaving tips: 1. Don't waste time doing things that others can do for themselves. A. Grocery shopping. Your spouse might be able to get it done a lot quicker on the way home from work. B. Ironing. Send it out, let your spouse do it, or wear it wrinkled. C. Children should learn to clean up after themselves. 2. Put your priorities in line. A. Who cares if the floor needs to be mopped or your oil changed? Get your writing done first when you are fresh and then do the things that don't take much thought or inspiration. B. Dinners can be quick and nutritious. C. The bottom line is what you care most about will get taken care of. So ask yourself, what do you care about most? 3. Don't waste time doing things NO ONE should do. For example, wasting time on the Internet, e-mail, or especially watching TV. The average person spends seven entire years of their life watching TV. Can you believe that? Think of everything you could do in seven years! Incredible. Successful people rarely waste time watching TV. 4. Let things go that don't really matter. For instance, I've decided that it's okay for my small children to dress themselves in mismatched clothes while they're in the house. As long as they're clean and we're not going anywhere, what does it matter? And I no longer worry about things I can't change. It's not worth my time. 5. Wear modest pajamas when you are writing. This way you don't need to interrupt your writing time to get dressed if someone pops in or if you have to make a quick errand. And women carry an extra set of makeup in your purse. 6. Learn to say no when it infringes upon your writing time. 7. Tell people you are writing so they will let you write. This also gives you more incentive to actually write. 8. Tell people about your deadline--even if it's a personal deadline. You must respect your time so that others will also. 9. Don't answer your phone or check your e-mail while you're writing. Don't waste writing time cleaning your screen or doing anything but writing. 10. Set a word count goal for first drafts and page goals for rewriting. Then stick to it. These goals must be realistic yet also inspiring. Spencer W. Kimball once said, "A goal never written is only a wish." So even if your goal is later adjusted, set a goal. I use a goal sheet for each book, on which I have daily, weekly, and entire book goals clearly stated, as well as space to write what I actually accomplish. 11. Don't ever give up. 12. Never write on Sundays. Never. 13. Pray. Tell your Father what your goals are and ask him to help you reach them. Oh, a few more comments. I do take Fridays off if I've already reached my weekly goal. If I didn't, I DON'T force myself make up for it the next week. I do keep it in mind and try to write accordingly, though, because I still have my overall book goal to shoot for. "Write accordingly" means maybe a hundred or so extra words for the next few weeks. Or maybe I need to readjust my end goal slightly. In the summer I often have much lower goals so that I can spend more time at the pool or the park with my children. I don't grow a garden except for a few tomatoes bushes (my husband plants other things which I don't take care of), and yes, my flowerbeds are pitifully bare. Lastly, it took me two years to buy curtains for our front room (we call it the piano room), but since I've never gotten around to buying a couch or chairs for the room either, we never really cared. See, it's all a matter of priorities. If it doesn't say Mommy and it's not a deadline, it can probably wait. Rachel _______________________ Rachel Ann Nunes (noon-esh) Best-selling author of the Ariana series and This Time Forever Web page: http://www.rachelannnunes.com E-mail: rachel@rachelannnunes.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stacy Burton Subject: [AML] Re: Questions for Anne Perry Date: 19 Mar 2001 07:50:17 -0800 (PST) Perry has two Victorian series. The Monk/Latterly series begins in the 1850s, the Pitt series in the 1880s. Perry's command of historical context is impressive. If the books are at times grim, I think it is because she's writing about crime (and, often, related hypocrisy) in nineteenth-century London. Their most insistent themes, I would argue, are about faith in the value of honest human relationships and in the possibility of a society in which all citizens have equal rights. The Pitt series is decidedly lighter in tone, the Monk/Latterly series richer in terms of social complexity. Stacy Burton - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] AML Awards (Deseret News) Date: 19 Mar 2001 10:06:30 -0700 >From the Deseret News, Sunday, March 18, 2001: Pres. Hinckley wins award for book President Gordon B. Hinckley of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints recently received the 2000 Award in the Essay from the Association for Mormon Letters for his book, "Standing For Something." The award was given at the association's annual conference last month at Westminster College. The literary group commended President Hinckley's unflinching stand on moral issues and the unprecedented phenomenon of an LDS Church leader's book achieving national renown and discussion across the United States. Accepting the award for President Hinckley was his daughter, Virginia Pearce. The Association for Mormon Letters, celebrating its 25th year, also honored playwright Margaret Young for her play, "I Am Jane," about early African-American Latter-day Saint Jane Manning James. She was also recognized for her novel, co-written by Darius Gray, "One More River to Cross," the first book of a trilogy relating the history of African-American Latter-day Saints. Other awards were given in devotional literature to Patricia Holland for "A Quiet Heart"; in short fiction to Darrell Spencer for "Caution: Men in Trees" (also a winner of the prestigious Flannery O'Connor Award); in filmmaking to Richard Dutcher for "God's Army"; and in literary criticism to Benson Parkinson for pioneering electronic discussion of Mormon literature. In addition, literary critic Richard H. Cracroft was given lifetime membership for his many years of contributions to reviewing and promoting Mormon writings. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] Last of the Red-Hot Mormon Lovers Date: 19 Mar 2001 10:24:52 -0700 With Eugene England being on our minds recently, I have wondered about the girl long ago I had the hots for whose last name was England. I'm about eight-five percent sure her first name was Kathy. There can't be that many England's in the country, cane there? It's an unusual surname. I wondered if they might be related somehow. Kathy England was a girl I crossed paths with a few times while growing up in Minnesota. It was around 1970, and she lived in a little town called Northfield, I believe, and attended a small branch of the church there. She had an exotic look to her--especially her eyes--that appealed to me greatly. Being the sniveling coward around girls that I was back then, I did nothing about my attraction. Jump to 2001. At the AML conference I picked up Gideon Burton's collection of Eugene England essays called "Why the Church Is As True As the Gospel." (The title essay, by the way, is a remarkably insightful eye-opener to the inspired organization of the Church.) As I read the first essay this morning, I came across this passage: "In 1970 I accepted a position as Dean of Academic Affairs at St. Olaf, a Lutheran liberal arts college in the small town of Northfield, Minnesota, and within a week of arriving was called as president of the little Latter-day Saint branch in that area." I about fell out of my chair. I don't know how you could clinch something better than this, except to also verify that Eugene has a daughter named Kathy (does he?) So I was in love with the daughter of Eugene England all those years ago? And this on the heels of confessing to AML-List about my crush on the daughter of the recently deceased Karl Sandberg somewhere around the same time period in the same state? What is it with me, Minnesota, and the daughters of prominent figures in LDS literature? Is this some kind of bizarre coincidence, or some equally bizarre synchronicity of fate that was foreshadowing my future involvement in LDS literature? I'm going to have to investigate what other prominent figures lived in Minnesota in the late 60's, early 70's, and which of them had attractive daughters of adolescent age at the time. If I find any, I'll better dollars to (Krispy Kreme) doughnuts I had a crush on them. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cathy Wilson" Subject: Re: [AML] Utah Arts Council Writing Competition Date: 19 Mar 2001 13:34:45 -0700 Nancy Takacs, who won first place for individual poem as well as poetry collection, teaches here at the College of Eastern Utah, not LDS. A wonderful teacher and writer and person. Her husband, Jan Minich, is also a fine poet. Cathy (Gileadi) Wilson Editing Etc. 1400 West 2060 North Helper UT 84526 - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 19 Mar 2001 19:05:23 -0600 At 05:24 PM 3/16/01, you wrote: >I know Rachel Nunes has made a kind of science of working writing into her >schedule; she even provides an outline of a typical day on her website >(www.ranunes.com). But she's got a bunch of kids and still writes multiple >books every year. And she says her house is clean, too. > >My question to Rachel, and anyone else in a similar situation, is: How much >time per day, generally speaking, do you spend writing? Okay, Rachel, cough up! We all want to know. How do you DO IT ALL? (Assuming she's still on the List, of course...) As for me, on a typical day, like 0 minutes. (Unless you count writing e-mail, maybe 15 minutes, unless I'm writing a post I have to edit a lot before sending out, and I try to limit those to the "rare" category lately.) On a good day, what I call a "writing day" where I can set everything aside, I have no appointments to make which stress me out, I can write from 2-6 hours and in that time get about a whole chapter written. I can manage "writing days" at least once, sometimes 3 times a week. Never weekends. It's hard to juggle all the responsibilities. Right now my dh is microwaving leftovers for us for dinner. I'm supposed to be cooking Something Healthy with Side Dishes... So, even with a supportive spouse who knows how to and DOES housework, I still can't get a lot done. Much of my problem boils down to being able to come up with the necessary focused concentration (editing previous work requires less, for me), and being able to come "back out" of the world I'm writing to real life. Many times I don't sit down to write because I don't have a large enough block of time. I struggle with making good use of 15-minute chunks. Editing my work I can do that way; but the original copy takes too much out of me to really work in small increments. I have to find ways to mentally be able to do it. All we've got so far on this thread is more people with my original question! Help us, somebody, please! :-) Linda Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "renatorigo" Subject: [AML] Fame and Ego (was: Satire) Date: 19 Mar 2001 18:18:22 -0300 > I think this is an excellent subject for a mormon discussion... In our lives I think the greatest challenge we have is to get to controll our ego...and let god=B4s commandments guide our lives... We spend our lives searching for money, sucess,fame etc And after getting these thing people usually have to search for themselves.... Only my simple opinion.. Renato Rigo S=E3o Paulo - Brazil > David Letterman--Ah, I remember him well as the sportscaster and sometimes > weatherman at my old Indiana home station. Every since I met him in Los Angeles, > before he became a "star" I haven't cared for him. Very stuck on himself at even > that time. Too bad what fame can do to a person's ego. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 19 Mar 2001 18:27:32 -0700 Rachel, Thanks for taking time to write this all down. (Actually, it probably saves you time since you can just forward it to anyone who asks!) It was a fun read and a good battery recharger for me meeting my current music writing goals! Best to you and yours, Steve -- Steven Kapp Perry, songwriter and playwright http://www.stevenkappperry.com http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 19 Mar 2001 18:27:32 -0700 Rachel, Thanks for taking time to write this all down. (Actually, it probably saves you time since you can just forward it to anyone who asks!) It was a fun read and a good battery recharger for me meeting my current music writing goals! Best to you and yours, Steve -- Steven Kapp Perry, songwriter and playwright http://www.stevenkappperry.com http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: Re: [AML] Last of the Red-Hot Mormon Lovers Date: 19 Mar 2001 20:17:02 -0700 D. Michael, Stay away from my two daughters. Alan Mitchell - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Last of the Red-Hot Mormon Lovers Date: 19 Mar 2001 19:10:13 +0000 Sheesh. What a post. I also was a friend of Karl Sandberg. What a great friend he was. He is sorely missed. I last saw him when I had breakfast with him at a Sunstone symposium in Salt Lake City. He has given so many good talks there, in particular one titled "Jacob and the Angel." If you can get it on tape, do it, by all means. Now, one of Gene's daughters gave a rollicking talk at Sunstone a few years ago. I don't recall her first name. I do remember thinking, "She's a knockout!" I was head-over-heels in love. If she's the same person, I understand completely your feelings. [Jeff Needle] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gerald G Enos Subject: Re: [AML] Last of the Red-Hot Mormon Lovers Date: 19 Mar 2001 20:38:09 -0700 I don't know about England being an uncommon name. I met a kid in 6th grade whose last name was England and that was in Pocatello, ID. (It was in the 70's.) Konnie Enos ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rose Green" Subject: Re: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 19 Mar 2001 22:06:32 -0600 Another difference between the Pitt and the Monk series is that in some ways, the Monk series is a bit more believable. The Pitts seem to have an inordinate amount of close relatives who have become victims of murder, whereas the Monks deal with it in mostly in terms of who they meet in their profession. I admit to prefering the Monk series. I like the development of an unlikeable main character into a more human one. Not a major question, but I'd like to know when her novel during the French Revolution will be published in English. I read it in German last year and found it interesting (called something like Die Rettung der Koenig). I'd heard that maybe it would also develop into a series. Is that true? And of course, I'd like to know more about the Tathea sequel. Rose Green Rose _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob Lyon" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 19 Mar 2001 21:21:07 -0700 "our leaders are serious men, and to emulate them requires that we be serious, too. " I'm not sure which leaders you refer to, but many of the leaders I am aware of have a great sense of humor. We recently had Elder Holland at our stake conference, and the man was a crack-up, especially at the Saturday leadership meeting (which is a bit more casual than the actual Sunday conference session). Elder Oaks, although he can look quite stern (especially with his bald head), is hilarious. And President Hinkley himself is very funny on a regular basis, as are Elders Maxwell and Monson and . . . you get the idea. Joseph Smith has already been brought up in this area, too. The point is that humor has a proper time and place. Some members may assume otherwise, since the leaders are generally formal, although I recall several moments of laughter even during General Conference in recent years. There ARE situations where humor is out of place. Laughing in sacrament meeting is inappropriate, for example, and I can picture President Hinkley giving a good look to quiet those deacons. But in other settings, I'm willing to wager all the higher-ups crack jokes, or at least laugh at others' jokes. Our leaders are not serious old coots, and we don't need to be, either. Annette Lyon - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 19 Mar 2001 21:48:42 -0600 I own one of hers but haven't had time (made time?) to get around to it yet. My question is, I'd like to know her writing schedule, has it changed since she joined the Church, and does she have any young'uns at home? :-) (you know that's been on my mind.) To make that an intelligent question, does she feel any shift in her career emphasis since joining us? i.e., subject matter, muse, schedule--is any of that different; has gaining a testimony changed what she wants to write about or how she does it? That kind of thing. Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry (was: Satire) Date: 19 Mar 2001 22:57:00 -0700 > >> I wonder how 'mainstream' Mormon > >> readers would respond to the poem these days. > > Scott Tarbet responds: > >"Mainstream" Mormon readers don't read poetry longer than would > fit into a > >greeting card. > > Are you distinguishing LDS readers from some other group? Hockey players, > perhaps? Three-legged people? Dog breeders? Presbyterians? > > Just curious why you'd specify mainstream Mormons in an accusation that -- > in my experience -- applies univerally. > > Moreover, blaming Mormons -- or anyone else -- for not reading something > that hasn't been popular -- or even available -- since Longfellow's time > seems a bit odd. Do you know any sane person who's been producing fabulous > must-read book-length poetry in the past couple of years? > > --lmg, greeting-card reader If you'll read back to the question to which I quipped a response, you'll see that the Mormon part of the answer was inherent in the question. I didn't single us out. Like you, I don't think we're much different than the general population in that way. Having said that, there's quite a bit of excellent poetry out there -- there might not be much of it that's epic, but there's an awful lot of it that's longer than fits in a greeting card. Whether or not the poets who are producing it are "sane" is another question altogether. -- Scott Tarbet - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Merlyn J Clarke Subject: [AML] Eugene England Status Date: 19 Mar 2001 22:13:48 -0500 >X-Originating-IP: [161.28.61.31] >From: "MARK ENGLAND" >To: mjc@csrlink.net,=20 >Subject: genes health 4 >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:44:30 -0700 >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2001 01:44:30.0959 (UTC) FILETIME=3D[4E9EA7F0:01C0B0DF] > > [Forwarded with permission] >March 17, 2001 >Dear friends, >I had hoped that by now there would have been something concrete to repo= rt=20 >to you on Genes condition, but we have yet to receive any further news=20 >concerning the pathology. We still don=92t know what caused the tumor an= d so=20 >far all scans and examinations have not revealed anything suspicious. We= =20 >don=92t know how to put this in perspective or if it is even possible to= gauge=20 >other than they know that cancer cells were in his bloodstream and may b= e in=20 >other parts of his brain. They are starting five weeks of medium level=20 >radiation treatment on all of his brain in order to kill any errant cell= s.=20 >He will lose his hair and it will make him very tired again which is=20 >disappointing now that he is regaining his strength. He will have to be=20 >closely monitored from now on just in case something flairs up. In the m= ean=20 >time dad is working very hard at physical rehabilitation, learning how t= o=20 >use his left side again. He spends about six hours a day working on=20 >different functions so he is very exhausted at the end of the day. He=20 >worries a lot about whether he is making progress, which he is, but it i= s=20 >hard for him to notice it. His spirits fluctuate between a strong=20 >determination to work as hard as he can to feeling like it is going nowh= ere.=20 >Yesterday,he came home for Sunday dinner and walked across the room with= =20 >someone helping him keep his balance. He can lift his left arm and pull = in=20 >his four fingers. All of this if very encouraging to us, but at the same= =20 >time we all feel overwhelmed at the long road ahead. He should be out of= =20 >Rehab in about a week and hope that he is walking on his own in about si= x=20 >weeks. For myself, I have gained a much greater appreciation for the=20 >situations and tragedies of other people who have had to deal with great= =20 >challenges in their lives. I appreciate those people who have shared the= ir=20 >own experiences and feelings with me as well as those who have been so=20 >generous with their help. Almost every time I see dad he tells me how mu= ch=20 >he appreciates and needs the prayers and faith of people to help him thr= ough=20 >this and that he truly feels blessed and strengthened because of them. > > > > > > - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 19 Mar 2001 23:49:07 -0600 Thank you, Rachel! This does help IMMENSELY. >If you had a "real" job, you'd have to do it each day, and it's the same >with writing. A regular time and a word (not time) goal can help you achieve >wonders. I've been trying (without a lot of success) to get stuff done in the morning and start writing from 1-4 each day, but it's not working. Putting it first thing in the morning in jammies sounds like it will work better for me; I'll give it a try. I like the word-count goal instead of time. Time, with interruptions, just doesn't work. >So where was I? Oh yes, delegation. My eleven-year-old son cleans two of our >bathrooms and the TV room every day. My nine-year-old daughter sweeps the >kitchen and entryway and then spot-mops the tile. Our other daughter who's >seven cleans the playroom, the mudroom, and puts away the clean dishes. Our >four-year-old helps with the playroom and organizes the toys I have in a >corner of my office. All of them clean their own rooms and fold and put away >their own laundry. Yes, even the four-year-old. I would really like to know your secret for HOW you motivate them to work. This may not be 100% AML-topic, but it's part of this whole deal. I also have chore lists and do chores with the kids to train them (mine are 10, 9, 8, 4, and infant); I give them things they reasonably can accomplish; but they almost never actually DO the chores unless I stand there and make them, like a policeman. If I move off to get other work done (computer or my own house chores), they stop working. I've tried positive rewards, negative consequences (I prefer positives and emphasize those much more), etc., and they just won't do it unless they're pushed. They don't seem to care much whether they get to watch TV or not, or play with friends or not, etc. >And guess what? The children really do a good job. They didn't at first >years ago, and it was very difficult to teach them responsibility, but I >don't have to worry about the house now. I even have time to dust the piano >on Saturdays. I should also say I've only been at teaching them the chore lists for a year or two, I'm a slow starter. Just never give up, right? Anyone have a good system that works for encouraging sluggish children? I didn't have chores growing up; I don't think it was useful not to, and want to change that for my children, but I also don't have a solid, built-in system I remember from childhood. My kids are expected to (daily) pick up one room each after school, their own rooms, help with dinner (cook's helper, set, clear, wash), and do two other cleaning jobs sometime during the week (doesn't have to be Saturday, but they can't play Saturday unless/until the weekly jobs are done.) They wind up in angst Saturday 5 pm when they're "finally" done with jobs that should take 1 hour (maybe two) and it's too late to play. Drives me nuts. Solutions? I'm positive it's not the jobs themselves, but the motivation. I've got something wrong somewhere that I can't place. I'm not a neat freak (good thing), I don't care much if people stop in and it's lived-in messy, but I do mind that I'm the only person in the house who seems to CARE whether the housework gets done or not. >12. Never write on Sundays. Never. I agree. I used to write on Sundays when it was a dream, a passing (I thought) hobby that wasn't going anywhere. It was, actually, restful and often inspirational. But I never do now that it's a "job" for which I receive payment (eventually). I can't write on Saturdays either, not for lack of trying, but it just doesn't work out. As for the shopping; I admit I'm a control freak when it comes to the grocery shopping. This is due to my hubby coming home with Weird Things when I send him to the supermarket. Weird meaning, things not on my list, brands I never buy for specific reasons, things that blow the budget, etc. It would take me more time to write out a store list specific enough to prevent all these Weird Things, than it would take to meet my week's writing quota. :-) Do I just learn to cope with it? He's also in night school two nights a week; another reason I'd rather not ask him to do the shopping. But shopping does take far more time than I like. Also, do you exercise at all, and where do you fit that in, if you're in your jammies all day? When do showers happen? As it is, most days I already live in sweats and hope to just brush my hair before my husband comes home. I'm spending too much time on this, and have to get back to my own book too. But it is helping me work out what kind of solutions I may need, here. I really appreciate your taking the time to write in, Rachel; I know time is precious, and when writing on deadlines, e-mail lists really have to take bottom priority. (I haven't even checked mine in 3 days, since I wrote my original post to this thread.) Linda Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Where's the Little Brown? Date: 19 Mar 2001 22:51:07 -0600 At 09:20 17-03-01 -0700, you wrote: >Thank you, Scott. I get my lefts and rights mixed up all the time. Bless >you! Marilyn > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Scott Tarbet >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 1:15 PM >Subject: RE: [AML] Where's the Little Brown? > > > > > Thanks for asking, Travis. It's the Little Brown Theatre, 239 S. Main in > > > Springville. Take Exit 263, go east, stop and Main street and > > > turn right for > > > one and one half blocks. Come! You'll love it! Marilyn Brown > > > > Minor detail: when you get to Main Street turn LEFT (rather than > > right) and go north one and a half blocks. The Little Brown Theatre is a > > storefront on the right (east) side of the street. > > > > -- Scott Tarbet (Van Daan) As the director was always yelling in my ear when I was running a camera (and as I did when I was directing): "Pan left. YOUR _OTHER_ LEFT!!" -- Ronn! :) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry (was: Satire) Date: 19 Mar 2001 22:53:03 -0600 At 09:01 17-03-01 -0800, you wrote: > >> I wonder how 'mainstream' Mormon > >> readers would respond to the poem these days. > >Scott Tarbet responds: > >"Mainstream" Mormon readers don't read poetry longer than would fit into a > >greeting card. > >Are you distinguishing LDS readers from some other group? Hockey players, >perhaps? Three-legged people? Dog breeders? Presbyterians? > >Just curious why you'd specify mainstream Mormons in an accusation that -- >in my experience -- applies univerally. > >Moreover, blaming Mormons -- or anyone else -- for not reading something >that hasn't been popular -- or even available -- since Longfellow's time >seems a bit odd. Do you know any sane person who's been producing fabulous >must-read book-length poetry in the past couple of years? > >--lmg, greeting-card reader Other than the Moderator, how many here actually read the poetry in _Lord of the Rings_ the first time through? -- Ronn! :) [MOD: I must confess: not me either. But then, I was 10 years old at the time...] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 20 Mar 2001 00:04:14 -0600 Just a couple of comments (or wisecracks): At 00:43 18-03-01 -0800, Rachel Ann Nunes wrote: >Give your children chores and allow your >husband do his share. What if you have no children old enough to help? I've tried asking the cats to help around the house, but they have been quite slow to learn even basic housekeeping. >3. Don't waste time doing things NO ONE should do. For example, wasting time >on the Internet, e-mail, or especially watching TV. The average person >spends seven entire years of their life watching TV. Can you believe that? >Think of everything you could do in seven years! Incredible. Successful >people rarely waste time watching TV. So what if you want to write for TV or film and want to see what is currently out there? (My particular answer is 3 VCRs and a TV near the computer.) >5. Wear modest pajamas when you are writing. This way you don't need to >interrupt your writing time to get dressed if someone pops in or if you have >to make a quick errand. And women carry an extra set of makeup in your >purse. This pretty much only works for women. When we men answer the door at mid-day in our pajamas, we are asked "Are you sick?" (The assumption being that you should be at a "real" job -- i.e., one not performed at home -- at least between 8 am and 5 pm weekdays.) Sweats are a little better, but you still look as if you are home sick (or worse, unemployed), especially if you have not yet shaved that day. I prefer putting a "NO SOLICITING -- Please do not knock or ring bell unless you have an appointment" sign on the door and then ignoring the doorbell unless I am actually expecting someone. (An idea I got from an "Ann Landers" or "Dear Abby" or some such advice column years ago, FWIW. It was on the intellectual page* of the local newspaper -- a good place to go for ideas or inspiration.) There _is_ a note pad and a pen on a chain beside the door if anyone wants to leave a message. Occasionally, I even look at the messages and, on even rarer occasions, reply. (*i.e., the comics.) >6. Learn to say no when it infringes upon your writing time. > >7. Tell people you are writing so they will let you write. This also gives >you more incentive to actually write. > >8. Tell people about your deadline--even if it's a personal deadline. You >must respect your time so that others will also. Again, especially if you are a man (and especially if you are wearing sweats and haven't shaved that morning), the response will be something along the lines of "You're not _working_ (or "You're not doing anything _important_"), you can do that later," or "So when are you going to get a real job?" (translation: "One that you do somewhere other than at home, like I and other normal people have. And actually get a regular paycheck from.") >9. Don't answer your phone That's what answering machines/voice mail are for. Besides, 9 times out of 10, it's a #$%^^&%$$#?!! telemarketer, anyway. And half or more of the time, those calls turn out to be machine-generated, so all you hear if you do pick up is some funny clicks and squeals, then nothing. BTW, caller ID can be counter-productive if you're the kind of person who, when you find a missed call from a number that you don't recognize who didn't leave any message, you wonder about who might have called until you call them back (and find out it was a wrong number). Gotta work on that . . . >11. Don't ever give up. Goes without saying. >13. Pray. Tell your Father what your goals are and ask him to help you reach >them. Of course, you should be praying about everything in your life anyway (Alma 34:19-37). The _hard_ part is listening, believing, and doing. >See, it's all a matter of priorities. If it doesn't say Mommy and it's not a >deadline, it can probably wait. Sometimes it says "meow" and knocks fragile things off a shelf (or jumps on top of your keyboard) to get immediate attention. And if it doesn't get it, it . . . uh . . . expresses its disappointment in a manner that requires immediate, unscheduled scrubbing of household furnishings. (Those who have cats will know what I mean.) Dogs are worse, as they have to be walked frequently, or similar incidents will occur. -- Ronn! :) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dana Eccles Subject: [AML] Re: [AML-Mag] Writing Schedules Date: 19 Mar 2001 22:19:57 -0800 As I am yet unpublished (though not for lack of trying--I'm not bitter!) you may want to avoid putting too much credence in the method to my madness but here goes.... My alarm rings @ 4:30 am. I get up, pray, read a chapter or 2 of Scripture, pray again and then force myself to write a minimum of 3 full pages every day, regardless of time needed . Usually "force" is the operative word & much of what I write is proof of that. I commute to work & this allows me to continue my writing to & from work, giving me up to 4 hours of wastable time. Eventually I take my rambling, disjointed attempts at prose & edit for coherence. Someday it will become the great american novel or kindling. [Dana Eccles] Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Fame and Ego (was: Satire) Date: 19 Mar 2001 23:26:02 -0700 I can't speak about David Letterman from first-hand experience, but I do know that what the public perceives as aloofness or snobbery on the part of celebrities is often just shyness, tiredness, or some other perfectly legitimate reason why they don't feel like socializing with strangers at that particular moment. I think the curse of celebrity is that people expect you to always be "on" -- to always be funny if you're a comedian, to always be pretty if you're a model, etc. -- when in reality, you're just a person who is not "always" anything. What I know of Letterman, in reading interviews and hearing people who know him talk about him, is that he's a very private, shy person. I'm the same way -- and people have often mistaken my being reserved as meaning I didn't like them or thought I was too good to talk to them. Does being an artist automatically mean you have to accept celebrity-hood with it? Is it all part and parcel, or are we allowed to choose whether we'll become celebrities? It seems like a lot of artists have celebrity thrust upon them. They do what they do because it brings them joy, and the fame comes along with it, whether they like it or not. Is that fair? Is it just the price one has to pay? Eric D. Snider -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dana Eccles Subject: [AML] Re: [AML-Mag] Influential Authors (O.S. Card) Date: 19 Mar 2001 22:42:50 -0800 As a prelude, here's my top 10: 10 Kurt Vonnegut 9 Hunter S Thompson 8 C. S. Lewis 7 Robert Anton Wilson 6 Darles Chickens (hats off to Tony M Nyphot on that one) 5 William S Burroughs 4 Jack Kerouac 3 Thomas Pynchon 2 Seamus Joyce 1 Tom Robbins I listed these for a chance to bring a quote from Tom Robbins into the ongoing discussion re: satire/irony/humor/etc: "Important humor is liberating and maybe even transformative. Important humor is also always inappropriate--if a joke is appropriate, you can rest assured it is unimportant. But a joke in the _wrong_ place at the _wrong_ time can cause a leap in consciousness that is liberating to the human spirit. In regards to the above list as with many eclectic readers, especially those few of my generation (X), it is subject to change in random & unpredictable ways. [Dana Eccles] Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 20 Mar 2001 01:10:02 -0700 Linda Adams wrote: > All we've got so far on this thread is more people with my original > question! Help us, somebody, please! :-) I'm not sure what you're looking for, Linda. If you don't have enough time, there is literally only one solution. You've got to start trimming things out of your day that are less important than writing, period. No one can conjur up more hours in the day for you. You may need a paradigm shift that will redefine some of the things you're spending time on as less important than writing. You may need a disciplined schedule that will group those 15 minute slots into one larger time period so you can write. You mentioned something about stressing out over appointments. What the heck are these? I hope you're not letting others dictate your schedule for you. If you had a "real" job, you would just tell people no, you can't come during those hours. Set hours for your real writing job and tell people no during those hours. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rose Green" Subject: Re: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 20 Mar 2001 09:07:28 -0600 Oops--that should have been Die Rettung DES Koenigs, published by Wilhelm Heyne Verlag, Munich, 2000. (The French Revolution mystery by Perry). Grammar turns off when my brain is tired. Rose Green _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 20 Mar 2001 08:42:07 -0700 Stacy Burton wrote: > > Perry has two Victorian series. The Monk/Latterly series begins in the > 1850s, the Pitt series in the 1880s. I've read one Pitt book and, quite frankly, it caused me some to reassess a position I've maintained with some vehemence on this list. In this book, an actress prides herself in stretching the envelope of acceptability in her performances. She laughs in the face of critics who question her morality and the effect of her works on the audience. She makes a great case during the book for freedom of expression, things that, today, we would call, First Amendment issues. Until her adult son is discovered to be a murderer, having been indirectly influenced into a lifestyle of debauchery by his own mother. This caused me to question my long-held position of "Damn the audience! Full steam ahead!" I've said before that if someone were wrongly influenced by something I wrote, then it would be entirely their fault. On the other hand, if that someone turned out to be one of my children ... I'm not so sure anymore. -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle, an organization of professionals Read about the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "bob/bernice hughes" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry Date: 20 Mar 2001 08:44:40 -0700 >Scott Tarbet: > >"Mainstream" Mormon readers don't read poetry longer than would fit into >a greeting card. >LauraMaery (Gold: Are you distinguishing LDS readers from some other group? >Hockey players, perhaps? Three-legged people? Dog breeders? Presbyterians? > >Just curious why you'd specify mainstream Mormons in an accusation that >--in my experience -- applies univerally. Scott’s probably right. The gentile Barnes & Noble in downtown Salt Lake has about 8 stacks (32 shelves?) of poetry. The Deseret Book in downtown Salt Lake has 2 shelves of poetry. If anyone does have an interest in poetry, and you are in New York in April, and you have some spare time (I think that eliminates everyone), you might drop by Poet’s House (www.poetshouse.org). Poet’s House was established by Stanley Kunitz (current US Poet Laureate) as a poetry gathering place. During April they have their major annual events. Lots of readings this April, including Kunitz, Seamus Heaney, Anne Carson, and others. They also exhibit most of the poetry books published in the U.S. in the past year. And they include a handful of internationally published books, too. Look for my book, _Behind Blue Eyes: Sonnets from the Vietnamese_ in that latter group. Laura, send me your mailing address and I’ll send you a copy of my book. I’ve received some reader comments from some of your old Hong Kong acquaintances and they thought it captured the expat life quite well. Bob Hughes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: RE: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 20 Mar 2001 09:09:49 -0700 So what question(s) would a good Anne Perry interview include? -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 9:53 AM When I first started reading Anne Perry, it was her Charlotte and Thomas Pitt ones I read. In fact, that's how I figured out she was LDS. One = novel centered around a woman (dead) who had been involved in a new religion. The C & T ones are dark as well. It is their enduring relationship that help lighten the tone somewhat. At least as I remember them. Tracie -----Original Message----- Maybe the Charlotte and Thomas Pitt books are less dismal. I haven't = tried them. I'm kind of afraid to. You all know I'm not a fan of the dark, dreary, dismal, and depressing in literature. barbara hume - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 20 Mar 2001 09:39:08 -0700 >"our leaders are serious men, and to emulate them requires that we be >serious, too. " > >I'm not sure which leaders you refer to, but many of the leaders I am aware >of have a great sense of humor. Unless I'm very much mistaken, the statement was meant to be ironic, since all of the men he referred to specifically after that are well-known for their senses of humor. > Laughing in sacrament >meeting is inappropriate, for example, and I can picture President Hinkley >giving a good look to quiet those deacons. Wow! That's a sweeping assertion. Laughter is NEVER appropriate in sacrament meeting? I assume you're talking about teens giggling about unrelated matters from the congregation, and not when the speaker uses humor as a part of his talk. Eric D. Snider -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] Last of the Red-Hot Mormon Lovers Date: 20 Mar 2001 12:00:08 -0500 At 08:38 PM 3/19/2001 -0700, you wrote: >I don't know about England being an uncommon name. I met a kid in 6th >grade whose last name was England and that was in Pocatello, ID. (It was >in the 70's.) > >Konnie Enos > I had a debate partner named England in Pocatello, ID. (that was in the -sigh- early 50's) so it may be rare many places, but not in Pocatello, Idaho. Richard B. Johnson Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Director, Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important http://www2.gasou.edu/commarts/puppet/ Georgia Southern University Puppet Theatre - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 20 Mar 2001 09:53:43 -0700 In my opinion, people who ask, "Where do you find the time to write?" are really asking, "Which of the other necessary things of everyday life are you letting slip?" You have to set priorities. A man who works all day may have to steal time at night. If he's hooked on the TV shows, he needs to get a VCR and tape them. A woman writer is going to have to let some housework fall by the wayside until a later time. There's just no other way to do it. Rachel says: > The point is, you have to write. Even when the words aren't coming. I firmly > believe that until you actually have enough on computer to tempt the muse, > he won't be visiting with great ideas. I couldn't agree more. I don't do this as often as I should, but everytime I've sat down at the computer and said, "I'm going to write that chapter, or that scene, no matter, what happens," it happens. And most of the time, what I end up with is not what I thought I was going for when I started. My problem is I have multiple interests. I write novels, plays, screenplays, lyrics, and short stories. I have ideas hopping around in my head all the time. At this moment in time (and this is just off the top of my head), I have ideas for at least 6 novels, four or five plays, the same amount of screenplays, etc. If I started writing now and didn't have a new idea, I would be busy for the next three years. I find myself flitting back and forth between the various media. One thing I've not been able to do, like Rachel has, is to maintain interest in one genre for a great length of time. My three novels were written fifteen years apart, with several plays in between. -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle, an organization of professionals Read about the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 20 Mar 2001 09:55:22 -0700 Linda Adams wrote: > > I own one of hers but haven't had time (made time?) to get around to it yet. > > My question is, I'd like to know her writing schedule, has it changed since > she joined the Church, and does she have any young'uns at home? :-) (you > know that's been on my mind.) She's unmarried. -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle, an organization of professionals Read about the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry (was: Satire) Date: 20 Mar 2001 12:15:18 -0500 At 10:53 PM 3/19/2001 -0600, you wrote: > > >Other than the Moderator, how many here actually read the poetry in _Lord >of the Rings_ the first time through? > > >-- Ronn! :) > >[MOD: I must confess: not me either. But then, I was 10 years old at the >time...] I confess that I can't imagine reading the _Lord of the Rings_ without reading the poetry. My children got so involved with the poetry that they recited it around the house. At least one of my sons went to the back of the books and learned the Runic language. (They tell me that he caused some real excitement at the Epcot center where they had a -I can't think of the word, I want to call it an ansible, but that's not right, but a gismo that changed sound and light as you moved in proximity to it-- gismo--Theramin? because he got into chanting runes and making mystic movements to change light and sound. Richard B. Johnson Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Director, Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important http://www2.gasou.edu/commarts/puppet/ Georgia Southern University Puppet Theatre - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eileen Stringer Subject: Re: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 20 Mar 2001 09:48:33 -0700 Eric Dixon wrote. >I've always been curious to find out whether she saw _Heavenly Creatures_, >and what her reaction was. Having been to a reading/book signing of hers a couple of times and heard this come up both times, she has stated that no she did not see the movie and had no desire to. It is a part of her life that she has put behind her and does not really like to dwell on. >On the other hand, I would imagine there's a good chance she won't want to >talk about it at all. Indeed that has been her request. It is something akin to having to relive all your past sins at every interview. Eileen Stringer eileens99@bigplanet.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Maxwell" Subject: [AML] Mormon Arts Festival 2001 Date: 20 Mar 2001 09:43:07 -0800 To the list: I received the following note regarding the Mormon Arts Festival. So there won't be any gathering this year in St. George, as was announced last year. ---------- Dear LDS Artist, The Mormon Arts Festival, originally scheduled for 2001, has been postponed indefinitely, at least in its current form. The Board of Directors is re-evaluating the mission of the Festival to serve the LDS artist, and how best to achieve that. A group of full-time professional LDS artists will be meeting in April to discuss the best direction to go. We have you on file and will let you know how things unfold. If you have participated in the past, we express appreciation for your support. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brent J. Rowley" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 20 Mar 2001 11:13:48 -0700 Rob Lyon wrote: > "our leaders are serious men, and to emulate them requires that we be > serious, too. " > > I'm not sure which leaders you refer to, but many of the leaders I am aware > of have a great sense of humor. We recently had Elder Holland at our stake > conference, and the man was a crack-up, especially at the Saturday > leadership meeting. > > Annette Lyon There's an article in the March, 2000 Ensign, written by Brad Wilcox, titled _If We Can Laugh At It, We Can Live With It (Humor can improve our perspective and lighten our load)_. He does an excellent job of summing up everything we've heard and read in this thread. And apparently the Powers-That-Be thought it important enough to include in the church magazine for all eleven or twelve million of us. One quote in particular that caught my attention was by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, who taught, "Jesus found special joy and happiness in children and said all of us should be more like them--guileless and pure, quick to laugh." -BJ Rowley - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] re: Questions for Anne Perry Date: 20 Mar 2001 15:15:26 -0600 Folks, we're at the 30-post limit for the day now--and as I said before, I'm going offline for several days tomorrow morning. However: to summarize several posts from Chris Bigelow that there isn't space to forward now, in all the topics we're discussing about Anne Perry, please consider whether there's a question that would be good for an interview. You might want to consider looking at previous _Irreantum_ interviews (for those of you who have a copy--and for those who don't, go out and buy one!)--and think about questions that might provoke interesting, thought-provoking answers. Chris has given us a chance to put in questions for one of the most popular Mormon authors. Let's take advantage of the opportunity! Jonathan Langford AML-List Moderator - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Turk325@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Last of the Red-Hot Mormon Lovers Date: 20 Mar 2001 11:36:38 EST In a message dated 3/20/01 9:32:39 AM, kdenos@juno.com writes: << I don't know about England being an uncommon name. I met a kid in 6th grade whose last name was England and that was in Pocatello, ID. (It was in the 70's.)>> The SLC phone book lists 75 Englands. Kurt Weiland - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Utah Arts Council Writing Competition Date: 20 Mar 2001 10:23:48 -0700 Cathy, thank you for giving us a bit about Nancy. I am very impressed, as I saw her name TWICE on the winning roster! Do you know her very well? What does she teach? Etc. Did they go to any Utah schools before teaching? Where did they come from? Thanks! Marilyn Brown ----- Original Message ----- > Nancy Takacs, who won first place for individual poem as well as poetry > collection, teaches here at the College of Eastern Utah, not LDS. A > wonderful teacher and writer and person. Her husband, Jan Minich, is also a > fine poet. > > Cathy (Gileadi) Wilson > Editing Etc. > 1400 West 2060 North > Helper UT 84526 - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 20 Mar 2001 10:38:18 -0700 Rachel writes: "so I can spend more time at the pool or the park with my children." That's how I wrote THE EARTHKEEPERS. I sat by the pool and wrote while the children hit each other with marco polo balls. Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eileen Stringer Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry (was: Satire) Date: 20 Mar 2001 10:19:29 -0700 Other than the Moderator, how many here actually read the poetry in _Lord of the Rings_ the first time through? -- Ronn! :) [MOD: I must confess: not me either. But then, I was 10 years old at the time...] Well I read the poetry the first time and each and every time I read the Lord of the Rings. The poetry is part of the story. I enjoy reading poetry and believe reading a poem a day may help keep me sane. :) Eileen Stringer eileens99@bigplanet.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] AML-List Going Offline Date: 21 Mar 2001 08:19:46 -0600 Folks, There are about 30 posts in the in-box right now. I'm going to go through and send out most or all of them, then shut down the List until next Monday, March 26. Have a good rest-of-the-week! Jonathan Langford AML-List Moderator - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Richard Dutcher Interview Date: 20 Mar 2001 10:43:37 -0700 I think your key is the words you used: TOO MUCH. If they didn't live TOO MUCH in the ideal, etc., would there be more of a possibility for joy and art to exist together? This is a good question, William, and I propose that you are gearing yourself up to write a paper for "Walking . . . a tightrope." We'd like to see that paper read at the March 2 AML meeting! Marilyn Brown ----- Original Message ----- > >From the Richard Dutcher interview: > > "There's an idealism that I struggle with also. I > think in our hearts we are all striving for the City > of Enoch or Zion-which has to be an adult re-creation > of the Eden we lost. I think there are a lot of people > who really want to be a part of that Zion. There's a > certain sadness that comes from being a part of a > society where that's not really possible." > > I have mixed feelings about this observation. On the > one hand, I think that I know what Dutcher is speaking > about and believe that it could be a rich vein for > Mormon literature to mine. The desire for Zion, the > demands of the world---create a whole range of > responses in Mormons. Exploring the reasons for and > the ultimate ends of these responses could make for > fascinating, vibrant reading, especially in a > long-form text like the novel. > > On the other hand, this sadness, this yearning reminds > me too much of all those sensitive young artists in > literature who get crushed by the world----Goethe's > _The Sorrows of Young Werther_ would be the > prototype---because they live too much in the ideal > (of beauty, of art) they construct, and it all falls > to pieces when reality breaks rudely in. > > So my question is: Is there a way to deal with this > sadness that Dutcher is speaking about without falling > into the old dichotomies, the dashed Utopian dreams > (either works that are already out there, or theories > about how they could be produced)? > > ~~William Morris - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gerald G Enos Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry (was: Satire) Date: 20 Mar 2001 10:39:42 -0700 I read the poetry in Lord of the Rings the first time through. It help to inspire me to write my own fantasy. Konnie Enos ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 20 Mar 2001 11:05:48 -0700 >This caused me to question my long-held position of "Damn the audience! >Full steam ahead!" I've said before that if someone were wrongly >influenced by something I wrote, then it would be entirely their fault. >On the other hand, if that someone turned out to be one of my children >... > >I'm not so sure anymore. I'm very happy that you are rethinking your position on this issue. I don't want it to be one of my children, either. barbara hume - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brent J. Rowley" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 20 Mar 2001 11:39:11 -0700 Rachel Nunes wrote: > > >5. Wear modest pajamas when you are writing. I can attest to the fact that she really DOES. I've been to her door at mid-morning, and she has very nice ... uhhumm ... modest ... jammies. (her hair was a disaster, but who's counting?) > Ronn Blankenship wrote: > This pretty much only works for women. When we men answer the door at > mid-day in our pajamas, we are asked "Are you sick?" (The assumption being > that you should be at a "real" job -- i.e., one not performed at home -- at > least between 8 am and 5 pm weekdays.) Sweats are a little better, but you > still look as if you are home sick (or worse, unemployed), especially if > you have not yet shaved that day. > My answer to that is: WHO CARES? When I get up, I put on sweats, a T-shirt, and thongs (the feet kind.). Those are my writing clothes, and I'm darn proud of it. And, since my REAL job is done mostly from home anyway, I can go a whole week sometimes without shaving and not even think about it. My real job pays the bills, but I'm proud to be a writer and proud to be "caught" in my writing clothes at the front door. -BJ Rowley - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: [AML] Humor (was: Satire) Date: 20 Mar 2001 12:52:07 -0700 Annette Lyon: > And President Hinkley himself is very funny on a regular basis, I think we're so used to seeing our leaders speaking at the Conference pulpit and reading their inspirational writings that we get a very one-dimensional impression of them. I was buds with one of President Hinkley's daughters in high school and was in and out of their home. The man is a hoot. You see glimmers of it in his public personna, but he's a genuinely happy, funny guy. > There ARE situations where humor is out of place. Laughing in sacrament > meeting is inappropriate, for example, Strenuously disagree. It might be inappropriate for the deacons to laugh and giggle and poke each other for no other reason that they are the age they are, but I can't see any way that it's inappropriate for a speaker to relate a funny story. Humor can teach and uplift every bit as well as tears. When I reported my mission I gave a talk I had carefully prepared to include both humor and pathos. I had several wonderful spiritual experiences to relate and I had a couple of pretty humorous ones that caused the congregation to laugh out loud. That night the bishop called me into his office and chastised me severely for causing laughter in church. And I do mean severely. Among other things he literally pounded the desk and yelled "Sacrament Meeting is a funeral for Jesus Christ!!" I was stunned absolutely speachless, an exceedingly rare condition for me ;-). After a long pause I said, "Bishop, my Savior isn't dead." I went home crying and shaking, left for BYU the next morning, and never attended that man's ward again. One of my personal heros, Bruiser McConkie, despite his monumental testimony, dour Conference stand demeanor, and huge intellectual attainments, drew a careful distinction once between reverence for things sacred and being what he called "long-faced Mormons". If God is love and we are that we might have joy, keeping ourselves artificially depressed is itself a species of sin. -- Scott Tarbet - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Picht Subject: [AML] Humor (was: Satire) Date: 20 Mar 2001 13:51:30 -0600 Annette Lyon wrote: > I'm not sure which leaders you refer to, but many of the leaders I am aware > of have a great sense of humor. Then you must have misunderstood them. We often treat as humorous those things we don't understand, perhaps as some sort of psychological defense mechanism. It's incongruous to think that a man with as many duties and as few years left as President Hinckley would dare to waste a second on the unnecessary or inconsequential. If he isn't preaching repentance and strengthening the church, he's wasting his time and the Lord's time, and surely he'll be smitten for it. He does have a nervous tic that occasionally makes it seem as if he's smiling or laughing, and so do others of the GAs, but it would be cruel and impious to laugh at them because of it. > Elder Oaks, although he can look quite stern (especially with his bald head), > is hilarious. Be very careful, and remember what happened to the children who noticed Elijah's bald head. There's nothing funny about baldness - it's a gift from God to those who have perfect heads (Jake Garn testified to that fact on the floor of the Senate), a disfiguring curse to those who don't. It's worse to notice your neighbor's bald head (unless it's a perfect head, in which case it's always appropriate to comment on it) than to make fun of a cripple or mock a Swede (not all of whom are lumberjacks, and the percentage of those who are and who actually wear women's underwear is smaller than you might think). > The point is that humor has a proper time and place. Of course. The place is in the privacy of your own home, and the time is after the children have gone to bed. You can legitimately tell all the jokes you want to then, and even draw smiley-faces on your spouse's tush, but wouldn't your time be better spent reading the scriptures and giving your children's toys to orphans? > There ARE situations where humor is out of place. Laughing in sacrament > meeting is inappropriate, for example... Well, further agreement. And why is laughter in sacrament meeting inappropriate? Because it drives away the spirit. Don't we want the spirit with us always? Then why drive it away during our other meetings? No joke has ever escaped my lips during a sacrament meeting talk, and I've occasionally been pained by the inappropriate laughter that's greeted my remarks. And neither have I ever used humor in an EQ lesson or in Sunday School, and I've started vigorously to chastise those who do. I think in the future we should focus on our Savior's passion, and when irreverant thoughts arise, we should mortify our flesh until they stop. To that end I've suggested to the bishop that a paddling room be designated where children might be disciplined. Not wishing good paddlings to be entirely wasted on children, I expect to make use of that room myself. > But in other settings, I'm willing to wager all the higher-ups crack jokes, or > at least laugh at others' jokes. Our leaders are not serious old coots, and we > don't need to > be, either. Hmm, you probably think they've known (biblically) their wives, too, for purposes other than procreation. They're really much better than that, and we should strive to be more like them. Now, if you'll excuse me, I feel a smile coming on, so it's time for my afternoon spanking. Jim Picht - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry (was: Satire) Date: 20 Mar 2001 12:57:11 -0700 > Other than the Moderator, how many here actually read the poetry in _Lord > of the Rings_ the first time through? > > -- Ronn! :) > > [MOD: I must confess: not me either. But then, I was 10 years old at the > time...] Me! Every word. Over and over until I got it. I was 13 or 14. Then I tried to write some like it. PU. -- Scott Tarbet - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: [AML] Las Vegas Booksigning Date: 20 Mar 2001 15:07:23 -0600 Hi all, I will be doing a booksigning (my first official one) at the Las Vegas Deseret Book Ladies' Night March 31st, 6-9 p.m., on the coattails of far more noted authors Margaret Young and Darius Gray. I'm pretty excited! I'll be thrilled to meet you, Margaret! (and Darius, but I don't think he's on the List, though?) I'll have my baby Rebekah with me too. Anyone on the list in the Las Vegas area who might come, let me know and I'll look for you, too. Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 20 Mar 2001 11:03:17 -0700 I've been debating whether or not to jump into this conversation. Like Linda, and I would guess, like most mothers-of-young-children who are also trying to be writers, I have struggled with this issue. But I think I have finally come to peace with it--largely as a result of last year's vigorous "Women and Art" thread on this list. My own (very personal) solution has been to pull back from the writing--at least for the time being. I'm not advocating that this is THE answer, that this is what everyone in a similar situation should do. But it's what I'm doing. It is only three more years until my youngest child starts school. I can wait that long to get serious about a writing schedule. I really can. I have tremendous admiration for mothers with infants and toddlers who can maintain a writing schedule. Kudos to them! And I mean that sincerely. But I can't do it. And I've accepted that fact. I can't write for two to five hours every morning, stopping only to meet the demands of my young children. I'd be stopping every five minutes, and for hour-long stretches! After all, young children have more than physical demands. Children need to be played with, read to, tickled, and just plain watched (some, every waking minute!). The last time I tried to work on a project at the computer while my three year old was awake, he dumped an entire box (42 loads) of Tide into the washing machine, then climbed in after it! Oh, I still write. I have five different manuscripts at various publishing houses right now. And I just sold three stories to _Cricket_ magazine. But I don't write everyday. And that's okay. For me. For now. Michael Martindale wrote: "You may need a paradigm shift that will redefine some of the things you're spending time on as less important than writing." I guess what I experienced was a paradigm shift that helped me see that writing (consistent, scheduled writing, that is) is just not as important right now as being there (physically, mentally, emotionally) for my young children. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] Publishers Weekly Item on Darius GRAY Date: 20 Mar 2001 14:18:36 -0700 >From the Publishers Weekly e-newsletter: Sender: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: aml-list Slave Genealogies Release Gives Deseret Author High Visibility Late last month, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced the historic release of Freedman's Bank records on CD, making fruitful genealogical research a possibility for millions of African-Americans. After the Civil War, former slaves deposited more than $57 million in the Freedman's Bank, providing extensive personal and family information as they did so. Although the bank collapsed in the 1870s, the records of 484,000 depositors survived and have been the focus of a painstaking 11-year extraction process. The CD, which retails for $6.50, is now the largest single repository of African-American genealogical records. One of the two directors of the Freedman's Bank project, Darius Gray, has been in the media spotlight since the announcement, doing television interviews on CNN and ABC News and print interviews in the "New York Times," "Essence," "Jet" and other publications. Bryant Gumbel interviewed Gray on March 7 on CBS's "The Early Show." Gray, a Latter-day Saint who is descended from Missouri slaves, is also an author. His fictional trilogy Standing on the Promises (Deseret), co-written with BYU creative writing professor Margaret Blair Young, highlights the trials and triumphs of early African-American converts to Mormonism. The first installment, "One More River to Cross," was released last September and has exhausted its initial print run of 7,000. Nearly 1,000 copies of the book were distributed to key media personnel and African-American dignitaries who attended the February 26 press conferences, held in 13 cities. Deseret Book plans to go back to press for a printing of 4,000 copies. The second book in the Standing on the Promises series, which addresses the experiences of African-American Mormons during the Civil War, will be released in January or February of 2002. Tom Haraldsen, publicist for Deseret Book, says that while the first book was promoted only regionally, the company is now considering a national marketing plan for the series. "In light of Darius Gray's involvement with the Freedman's Bank project, his visibility will increase," Haraldsen told BookLine. --Jana Riess - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 20 Mar 2001 14:37:04 -0700 [MOD: As I think everyone recognizes, we're a little outside our normal sphere of topics here for AML-List. Given the direction that the conversation has taken, I think it's okay for people to put out their various child care/chores/etc. ideas, since that so clearly has application to working conditions for many of us. The point where I'm planning to draw the line is if it goes beyond sharing ideas to the point of debating different viewpoints. This may be irrelevant given that the List is about to go offline for several days, but I thought I should give fair warning.] On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:49:07 -0600, Linda Adams wrote: >I would really like to know your secret for HOW you motivate them to = work.=20 >This may not be 100% AML-topic, but it's part of this whole deal. I also= =20 >have chore lists and do chores with the kids to train them (mine are 10,= 9,=20 >8, 4, and infant); I give them things they reasonably can accomplish; = but=20 >they almost never actually DO the chores unless I stand there and make=20 >them, like a policeman. If I move off to get other work done (computer = or=20 >my own house chores), they stop working. I've tried positive rewards,=20 >negative consequences (I prefer positives and emphasize those much = more),=20 >etc., and they just won't do it unless they're pushed. They don't seem = to=20 >care much whether they get to watch TV or not, or play with friends or = not,=20 >etc. > >I should also say I've only been at teaching them the chore lists for a=20 >year or two, I'm a slow starter. Just never give up, right? Anyone have = a=20 >good system that works for encouraging sluggish children? I didn't have=20 >chores growing up; I don't think it was useful not to, and want to = change=20 >that for my children, but I also don't have a solid, built-in system I=20 >remember from childhood. > >My kids are expected to (daily) pick up one room each after school, = their=20 >own rooms, help with dinner (cook's helper, set, clear, wash), and do = two=20 >other cleaning jobs sometime during the week (doesn't have to be = Saturday,=20 >but they can't play Saturday unless/until the weekly jobs are done.) = They=20 >wind up in angst Saturday 5 pm when they're "finally" done with jobs = that=20 >should take 1 hour (maybe two) and it's too late to play. Drives me = nuts.=20 >Solutions? I'm positive it's not the jobs themselves, but the = motivation.=20 >I've got something wrong somewhere that I can't place. Can I interject? Children need regularity and this doesn't look regular. Giving them two chores to do sometime in the week doesn't work for people with no sense of the future (most children don't get a concept of the = future until their mid twenties--I'm still working on it). Your other chores = sound kind of fluid, too. Help with dinner? You need to define both the chore and the time it needs to be done (before you can play isn't going to work because while it may pay off to do the work so you can go play, procrastination pays off right now). Then work with them a couple times = to show them how. After you've shown them a couple times, give them a clear time to do it and let the do it. Consequences follow immediately if they aren't done by your deadline--active consequences. I like Rachel's = weekly review on Saturdays, too. Good idea. I know this sounds really fascist, and it kind of is, but this kind of regularity is vital to children learning that getting the work done first= is a benefit. They won't learn that lesson until *after* they've done it a couple million times and can see the post-work freedom themselves. The other thing you need to do is remove as many dependencies as you can. If job B can't be done until job A is finished, make sure that the same = child does both jobs A and B instead of providing them a scapegoat by assigning job A to a sibling. Working together is nice, but children don't work together as much as they procrastinate together. =46inally, remember that removing privileges only goes so far. = Eventually a child will draw the equation that if they learn to care less about fun stuff, they can get away with working less. It's easier to learn to not care if you don't play with other kids than it is to clean your room--at least in the futureless world of children. Kids' capacity for withdrawal seems limitless. Eventually, you are going to have to introduce pain = into your child's life. This is tough for a parent to do, but the alternative= is to end up with kids that don't care about anything because anything can = be taken away by wrathful parents--in the end, this is more damaging than brief, but timely episodes of concentrated pain because it sets the = parents up as antagonistic removers of all things pleasant. It helps to remember that there are a lot of different kinds of pain. = The boredom of time out is good for times when the chore involves something active. Time out doesn't work real well when the chore is to get ready = for bed (when the whole goal of the child is to put off going to bed as long = as possible) so some other motivator needs to be found. It also helps to = know your personal limits. For example, I have to watch my temper and not = yell as much as I want to. Yelling is a great motivator because it is = immediate pain for the child, but it isn't really a great way to treat your = children. Some people have to watch spanking because they are prone to violence and they need to avoid a precipice they don't control well. The key to delivering pain to kids is to make sure it is controlled, well-explained, and consistent. Make sure that pain is a consequence, not random sadism. >As for the shopping; I admit I'm a control freak when it comes to the=20 >grocery shopping. This is due to my hubby coming home with Weird Things=20 >when I send him to the supermarket. Weird meaning, things not on my = list,=20 >brands I never buy for specific reasons, things that blow the budget, = etc.=20 >It would take me more time to write out a store list specific enough to=20 >prevent all these Weird Things, than it would take to meet my week's=20 >writing quota. :-) Do I just learn to cope with it? He's also in night=20 >school two nights a week; another reason I'd rather not ask him to do = the=20 >shopping. But shopping does take far more time than I like. This may be something you have to work out with your spouse. Our society= is very busy. We cram our lives full of a lot of things for a lot of = different reasons. We work a lot, and then pile more work on top of that in order = to get more work. I have real trouble getting volunteers in my ward because everybody is so busy. It's not uncommon for a man to work two jobs *and*= go to night school. Those who don't have two jobs have a long job and = hobbies to fill in the gaps. There is a certain prestige in our LDS culture for being so busy that any additional work is an enormous imposition. It = allows you to turn down assignments or to do them with added points for = martyrdom. I can attest that husbands *can* learn all the details about shopping, = but they need the information--probably repeatedly. The trick is to figure = out that it is important for you to learn that stuff. You have to work as a team to figure out what needs to be done by whom. Make all the goals = family goals. A husband will tend to hold career goals personal and sacred. We don't really want to be told that extra hours at work need to be cut back= in order to go shopping and fix dinner. Our responsibility is to provide = for our family and we don't want any interference in that and it is made = easier because our spouse has really no idea what our work requires and what we take on ourselves for whatever reasons. But the sole-reponsibility = position is a false one. Our career is as important to our spouse as it is to us. Our attempts to hold it separate are selfish and in the end can be very destructive to the things we supposedly hold more important. I'm not = saying that this is the case in your situation, but it is something that we need= to monitor well as a people or risk being overcome by our culture. Anyway, Those are my thoughts. Subject to the usual caveats for = emptors... Jacob Proffitt - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Richard Dutcher Interview Date: 20 Mar 2001 14:49:10 -0700 On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 22:01:53 -0800 (PST), William Morris wrote: >So my question is: Is there a way to deal with this >sadness that Dutcher is speaking about without falling >into the old dichotomies, the dashed Utopian dreams >(either works that are already out there, or theories >about how they could be produced)? I think our culture has a unique view of this Utopian longing. We have = the sad desire, but we openly and intrinsically recognize that realizing the Utopian ideal will be impossible without vast, world-wide changes and we have no unrealistic ideas of bringing that to pass. The LDS world-view = is therefore unique and I think that is something that LDS artists can mine = as Dutcher suggests. We are pragmatic idealists. What a wonderful world = view to have! We hold to our ideals, but we don't agonize over it when other people don't live up to them. We know we ourselves don't live up to = those ideals, and that provides us some discomfort, but we can be happy anyway = by working them out and uplifiting others as much as they'll let us. = Pragmatic idealism needs some artistic exploration. We need an anti-Voltaire... Jacob Proffitt - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: [AML] Humor (was: Satire) Date: 20 Mar 2001 17:07:03 -0500 I'm thinking, Annette, that you meant laughing during the actual sacrament portion of a sacrament meeting. Heaven forbid we should sit through week after week of sacrament meeting talks that never gave a reason to chuckle. I'm not sure I totally agree, at any rate. While I don't think I would laugh at something pertaining to the passing of the sacrament, I have been known to laugh, however silently it was, at something one of kids did, or some blooper on the part of someone or other. I know that prayers are often considered solemn occasions. But, there have been times that we have found ourselves laughing-and out loud, too (gasp) during a family prayer. Sometimes things are just funny. We just tell the kids that we're sure Heavenly Father appreciates the humor of the situation as well. We had our little temple dedicated a few years ago, and Pres. Hinckley cracked jokes through practically the whole thing-the cornerstones ceremony, the beginning of the actual dedication. I think not after that. Not during the prayer and stuff like that. Tracie L. -----Original Message----- There ARE situations where humor is out of place. Laughing in sacrament meeting is inappropriate, for example, and I can picture President Hinkley giving a good look to quiet those deacons. But in other settings, I'm willing to wager all the higher-ups crack jokes, or at least laugh at others' jokes. Our leaders are not serious old coots, and we don't need to be, either. Annette Lyon - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] Fame and Ego Date: 20 Mar 2001 18:32:04 -0700 Eric, Believe me, I know all about celebrities. I worked for Alan Osmond Productions for ten years and I've met hundreds of celebrities. Some have been nice, others are jerks. David Letterman was trying to break into the comedy world when I saw him in LA doing a TV Gameshow pilot. He was there for the purpose of gaining national exposure. My friend and I tried to strike up a conversation with him, talking about our mutual homestate. He wanted nothing to do with being friendly to anyone in the audience. It certainly soured me on him. Of course, he's not the only celebrity I've known to be rude: Bill Cosby, Mary Lou Retton, and Melissa Gilbert were all EXTREMELY rude when I met them. A few have been aloof--The Beach Boys, Nick Nolte, Bruce Willis--but their aloofness was not rude. I can understand how differing situations result in differing responses. The other hundreds I've met have all been wonderfully warm and gracious, even in situations surrounded by rude fans where they had no reason to return the rudeness with kindness. Speaking of rudeness, was that your column in the Daily Herald that completely lambasted Donny Osmond a few days ago? Shame on you! Donny is one of the hardest working and absolute nicest people I've ever met, and that's not just because I worked for his brother. I have seen Donny be kind to people who have never given him a reason to be kind. I've seen him be gracious to fans who would not step two inches away from his face. I've seen him treat people who would not leave his wife and children alone with dignity and respect. As I've heard from numerous celebrities, when they put themselves into a public situation, then the public has the right to meet with them. I've seen this be true with LDS authors as well. Rachel and Marilyn have both spoken at writer's workshops I've sponsored and they were willing to speak, sign autographs, and chat with people for as long as there were people who wanted to meet them. Bravo to you both! Lu Ann - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: [AML] VIP Playwriting Competition Date: 20 Mar 2001 15:19:51 -0700 (MST) I don't think I've seen it announced here, but I may have missed it - but I clipped the article from the Daily Herald. Anyway - the fiddler in my band Organic Greens, Nathan Christensen, won the VIP arts playwriting competition for his musical "Here in The Heartland." The article I clipped mentioned Marylin Brown as invovled with it. Nathan says there's going to be a reading of it at the Villa playhouse, but he's not sure when. I'd like to know. Anyone have the info? --Ivan Wolfe - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Card's "Sarah" Reviewed in Jerusalem Post: Jerusalem Post Date: 20 Mar 2001 20:58:54 -0600 18Mar01 A2 [From Mormon-News] Card's "Sarah" Reviewed in Jerusalem Post JERUSALEM, ISRAEL -- The Jerusalem Post published Sunday an unabashedly positive review of Orson Scott Card's "Sarah: Women of Genesis," calling the book, part of a projected trilogy on the women of Genesis, "a lively novel that enlarges our appreciation for this complicated matriarch." While admitting that the orthodox may reject the book because it uses the bible as the basis for a novel, most readers will "simply appreciate the book as a good yarn," says reviewer Morton Teicher. In "Sarah," Card 'fleshes out' the story of Abraham's wife from a fictional visit by Abraham and Lot to Sarah's family when she is 10 to her death at age 127. While the bible uses no more than 20 pages to tell her story, Card takes nearly 400 pages in his account, adding dialogue, characters, scenes and motivations to the biblical narrative. Card has had practice at this "flat-out manipulation for fictional purposes" (Card's words) of other narratives. In two previous science fiction and fantasy series, Card fleshed out stories well known to Mormons. His 'Homecoming' series retells much of the Book of Mormon in a science fiction setting, while his 'Tales of Alvin Maker' series tells the life of Joseph Smith in an alternate world. Card even retold, and even changed, the life of Christopher Columbus in his 1992 book, "Pastwatch." The Post's reviewer, Teicher, is clearly impressed with the results in "Sarah." He says "Sarah fully demonstrates [Card's] remarkable versatility and his rich imagination, attributes that contribute considerably to his recognized accomplishments . . . " He also credits Card with producing "an impressive tribute to contemporary feminism." Source: A strong woman married to a Patriarch Jerusalem Post 18Mar01 A2 http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/03/18/Books/Books.23117.html By Morton I. Teicher >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry (was: Satire) Date: 20 Mar 2001 22:13:28 -0600 At 10:53 PM 3/19/01, you wrote: >Other than the Moderator, how many here actually read the poetry in _Lord >of the Rings_ the first time through? > > >-- Ronn! :) > >[MOD: I must confess: not me either. But then, I was 10 years old at the >time...] Uh, me. :-) Is that weird? I didn't know that was weird. Am I the only one? I can't stand to skip things when I read, I might miss something important. Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 20 Mar 2001 23:23:48 -0600 At 02:10 AM 3/20/01, you wrote: >You mentioned something about >stressing out over appointments. What the heck are these? I hope you're >not letting others dictate your schedule for you. If you had a "real" >job, you would just tell people no, you can't come during those hours. >Set hours for your real writing job and tell people no during those >hours. Oh. You have little kids, don't you, D. Michael? Appointments? You must ask what appointments a mother of five young children has? dentist appointments (x5), doctor check-ups (x5), ortho appointments (x2), chiropractor appointments (x3); parent-teacher conferences (x3), school parties (x3), school functions (x3), music lessons (x3), all at varying times, weeks, and on different schedules, half of which, I have to find babysitters for the younger kids (another stress, for various other reasons), because if I don't I'll be *really* stressed out *during* the appointments keeping my 4-yr old from tangling himself in blood pressure cuffs, staying out of the drawers, off the doctor's swivel chair and away from the stirrups tucked in to the table (whassat for Mommy??), this all while tucking a reluctant screaming infant in and out of her dreaded car seat and detested car ride just after she fell asleep for the ONE nap she might take that day... not to mention if it's for school or a professional office I can't go in my jammies or sweats with holes in them, I have to look semi-normal or be judged as an unfit parent (which means at least combing my hair, deodorant, make-up); I have to make sure my 4-yr old's clothes and shoes halfway match (not to mention my own) and that he's scraped off whatever jelly, mud, etc. he's gotten on himself so far that day. If I wake up and I know I HAVE an appointment to go to that day, whatever it is, I'll be stressed in some way until it's over with. I also lose track of time easily and tend to forget appointments. I hate appointments. Can you tell? It doesn't matter what time I make the appointment for. I'd rather just walk in when I'm good and ready. But the professional world doesn't work that way. So. No. Nobody's dictating my schedule for me. I choose the times. But with five little kids somebody ALWAYS has somewhere to go. (The list above doesn't even take emergencies into consideration. And we don't even TRY to do soccer or karate or Little League or dance or... you get the picture.) And going ANYWHERE causes me stress. Also, there is no social validation from Others that my writing time is actually important (except my husband, and a close friend or two). It is not, as you say, considered a "real job." Even if I treat it that way, others will not. I liked Ronn's very funny post on this. People don't understand. And I haven't published enough with enough success (yet) to be socially allowed to be eccentric and weird. (I am anyway... that's another story.) And when people say, "Hey, are you busy?" I'm learning to say, yes, sorry. I do use my answering machine. It helps a lot. On the female side, again (though Ronn made excellent points from the male perspective), I also belong to Relief Society which is an organization committed to service, so I am committed to service, so when calls do come in for help, so & so needs a meal, so & so needs their kids babysat, etc. in a ward where I am one of few stay-home mothers, I do get called on for service. I can't say no to these without tremendous guilt. Because, after all, I *am* home, and it is my obligation to provide Relief to my Sisters, and in all honesty I don't mind doing it. Oh, and don't forget Visiting Teaching. Three more appointments every month, that on my route can't all always be done on the same day. I have to go. I have two appointments tomorrow, first thing in the morning. (No, really, I do!) Linda Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 20 Mar 2001 23:28:09 -0700 Rob Lyon wrote: > There ARE situations where humor is out of place. Laughing in sacrament > meeting is inappropriate, for example I've laughed in sacrament meeting, and I've generated laughs in sacrament meeting. They haven't disfellowshipped me yet. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry (was: Satire) Date: 20 Mar 2001 23:29:30 -0700 Ronn Blankenship wrote: > Other than the Moderator, how many here actually read the poetry in _Lord > of the Rings_ the first time through? Not me. Nor the second time through, nor the third. I also don't read the poetry in Irreantum. Sorry, poets. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] Alan Rex MITCHELL, _Angel of the Danube_ (Review) Date: 21 Mar 2001 00:59:22 -0700 ANGEL OF THE DANUBE by Alan Rex Mitchell 2000, Bonneville Books Trade paperback, 197 pages $12.95 "Quest for Contacts, Indian Underwear, and Magic" 197 pages in one day. Need I say more? (I got very little sleep that day.) I hate books that have a diary/journal format. It's like reading an endless stream of tiny short stories, and I don't handle short stories well. It's hard for me to get into a story, so I struggle when I have to pop in and out of them every few pages or so, like in an anthology. Mitchell's _Angel of the Danube_ looked like it was going to be such a book. The first page starts out looking like this: Chapter 1 Kaiser Karl's Ravens April 18 When you meet a humble servant of God... "No," I lamented. "It's in journal format!" But to my great relief, as I paged through the first part of the book, I saw that this was the only journal-entry-like date in the book. I didn't know why he decided to start chapter one that way and not continue with the format, but I didn't care. I was just glad he didn't. The story begins calmly enough with a pair of missionaries stationed in Austria, written in first person with Elder Barry Monroe as the narrator character. As foreign missionaries are known to do, Monroe weaves a lot of German words into his speech. But he's also from California and speaks with a strong surfer dialect. If you don't think that combination is weird! For example: "Dude had transferred Vidic and me at the same time. Sure, we'd been together an Ewigkeit, but it was enjoyable." Relax. By now you know that "Ewigkeit" means "eternity"--Mitchell doesn't leave you high and dry with undefined foreign terms. Oh, and by the way, "Dude" refers to the mission president--this time. We learn quickly that Austria is one hell of a mission to work in--literally. No contacts, no teaching appointments, no baptisms. Just endless, useless tracting. Discouragement runs high. As the quirky daily events of a missionary's life unfold--with some very strange missionaries indeed (in other words, par for the course)--the overriding plot begins to take shape: the quest for the effective contacting method in Austria. But in the meantime, survival is necessary. During a moment of utter boredom during some utterly fruitless tracting, Monroe decides to pick a fight with his companion, whom he lovingly calls Unts: Told him that he spoke lousy German and that's why we weren't getting in any doors. He said he thought the real reason was my orange moon boots. I corrected him--they were blue and white with a little orange. He said all that chocolate was making me go color blind. "Me? You're a chocolate addict!" I said. "No," he said, "You're a chocolate junkie!" "You Canadians think you are so smart, eh?" I told him, "Why don't you say the =91o' in =91sorry' or =91progress' correctly." "Soooow-ree," Unts stressed the weird pronunciation, and bumped me with his hip. "Are not!" I bumped him back. He flicked my tie. I pulled his ear. He stepped on my moon boots. I grabbed his belt. He put me in a headlock. I lifted his leg and we both went tumbling. It was a blast. And away we go. You start out reading with a raised eyebrow, begin to chuckle louder and louder as scenes like the above unfold, and before long you are ROFLMHO ("rolling on the floor laughing my head off," for the emoticonically challenged). The zaniness of this book sneaks up and grabs you like Indian underwear. But it's not just a book of crazy missionary antics. Woven throughout is a tapestry of magical cultural touches that bring Austria to life. At the same time you're feel the drabness of doing missionary work there, you feel the charm of the Austrian mindset, a people who seem to define their whole existence by centuries of traditional legends and fantasies. Moving like a slow, majestic river behind everything else is a metaphor for the whole book tied up in one of those legends, the Angel of the Danube, which is immortalized in Vienna with a mermaid statue, pictured on the book cover. If all this isn't enough for you, there's the love story thrown in, as Monroe grapples with his love for the girl he left back home and the love he feels for a gorgeous contact he calls Magdalena--all subconsciously, because he doesn't even recognize his love for Magdalena. And there's the serious side, such as when the most unorthodox elder in the mission discovers a new and effective way of contacting, involving a bar and a band and some girls he gets a little too cozy with. But the spice of the book, the frosting on the cake, are the bizarre Monty-Pythonesque moments that keep cropping up. Pinball proselytizing. The date with two female contacts to the State Opera. The day they tracted out a for-real Herr Hitler ("Hitler seemed profoundly interested in the book. But I cringed every time Scotty said his name in the discussion format. Like, =91Do you remember what question Joseph Smith wanted to ask God, Herr Hitler?' "). The day the clowns (the missionaries of the Vienna district) broke into Captain Scotty's apartment (the wierdest elder in the mission), photocopied his journal, and read it, because he wrote in it constantly and never showed anyone what it said, and they were all dying to find out. The contest for the most bizarre contacting moment. Clear the floor around you before you start to read, because you'll be rolling on it. Then I get to the last chapter and find to my horror that the journal-entry format came back. That nasty Mitchell got me again, like Indian underwear, throwing that despised format in with a vengeance right when I'm racing ahead with my reading and don't want to stop. It's too late now. I have to read on and enjoy it, because I'm so engrossed I can't stop. Besides, I need to catch a little sleep before work, and that ain't going to happen until page 197. --=20 D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths=20 Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Humor (was: Satire) Date: 21 Mar 2001 08:43:04 -0700 Scott Tarbet wrote: > > There ARE situations where humor is out of place. Laughing in sacrament > > meeting is inappropriate, for example, > > Strenuously disagree. You realize, don't you, that Jim's response was one long satirical comment? His whole post was one screamingly hilarious send-up, so well written, an excellent example of satire because it seemed so real. Great job, Jim! -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle, an organization of professionals Read about the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] B.J. ROWLEY, _My Body Fell Off!_ (Review) Date: 21 Mar 2001 01:52:24 -0700 MY BODY FELL OFF! Book 1 of the Light Traveler Adventure Series by B.J. Rowley 2000, Golden Wings Enterprises Trade paperback, 202 pages $11.95 "Score: Father 0, Daughter 1" It's a flashy, attractive cover. It's a catchy title. I examined the book carefully, front and back cover, and saw nothing to indicate genre except for the designation "Adventure Series." But I saw it shelved in the Young Adult section of Deseret Book. And the protagonist is a teenaged boy. I decided I would think of it as a Young Adult novel. I had to think of it that way, otherwise I would have to give it a negative review. Bart Elderberry is a new tenth grader who would have been excited to start high school if his family had stayed in California. Instead he starts high school in some unspecified town in Utah Valley. The first four chapters spend time letting him get used to his environment, meeting the girl that will become his love interest, having a run-in with the cowboy bullies, and generally making friends he can interact with for the rest of the book. In chapter five the action finally gets started. There's a church dance, and a bunch of them hop in the car to go for a drive in the canyon. On the way down, thanks to the careless driving of a passing vehicle, they go tumbling over the edge of the road. That's when Bart discovers his body can fall off. He thinks he's dead. And he's having a great time flying around here and there. But when he suddenly is sucked back into his body, he's obliged to reassess his conclusion. As the phenomenon keeps occurring, he finally figures out he's astral projecting, and learns to control it. He also comes across a kidnapping plot, tied to an even more elaborate plot cooked up by some local scoundrel. Bart and his friends get involved, and have an easy time working things out with Bart's ability--until Bart discovers that the scoundrel has employed someone else with the ability to astral project, and that someone else knows how to control it a whole lot better than Bart. The writing style is clearly Young Adult. I couldn't have enjoyed it without thinking of it as any other genre. Once you get past the lengthy four-chapter introduction (which really should be shortened up), the action zings relentlessly. The book is very readable. But don't expect any sophistication or profundity. For me as an adult, I wouldn't have liked the book except to tell myself I was about to read a Young Adult novel, and deal with it at that level. But for my fourteen-year-old daughter, it was fantastic. She loved it. She devoured it. She instantly demanded books two and three, which I own but have not yet read, and devoured them, then regaled me with her misery that more books didn't exist. This series is definitely Young Adult, and works quite well at that level. Okay, so they're Young Adult. What's the big deal? Why do I keep harping on that? Because in the Author's Note at the end of the book, I get the impression that Rowley didn't necessarily intend that they be Young Adult. And I also get the impression that they have succeeded with other adult readers. One man's poison, I guess. Rowley believes in the reality of astral projection--convinced after much research--and claims that others have approached him who have the ability and found his books helpful in dealing with the phenomenon. He believes astral projection is one of the gifts of the Spirit--a talent given by God--to certain people. This is the gist of the Author's Note, and it's obvious why he would feel a need for an Author's Note to explain his attitude about astral projection, since many members of the church would consider it approaching apostasy, if not blasphemy, to call something traditionally associated with new age spookology a gift of the Spirit. Yet there's nothing in our theology that requires dismissal of the idea. All you need for astral projection is a spirit that can separate from the body, and LDS theology can certainly accommodate that. Personally, I'm not convinced. But neither am I dissuaded. I would simply need to do my own research to convince myself Rowley's theory is true--a claim like that requires some serious evidence before acceptance. But I hope it is. I think it would be fun to have astral projection be a reality. In the meantime, your kids can read the series and enjoy it, and everyone can call it harmless fantasy if genuine astral projection is too creepy a concept for you. And you may even find that you can enjoy reading it too, as long as you don't expect _Moby Dick_ or something. It's certainly a step above _Goosebumps_. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 21 Mar 2001 08:56:54 -0700 I'd like to put a word in for LDS male writers, who are also fathers. If we are not fortunate enough to be employed by our own writing, we must also juggle precious home time to write. Our schedules are a little different than stay-at-home Mom writers like Rachel, but there are similar problems, and similar things that have to be put off for another day (or ignored). A father who works in the evening might have to do so late at night, after spending time with the kids. He might have to work on the weekend, while other fathers are building things. He'll need a tolerant wife who'll understand why he isn't the guy spending Saturday morning fixing the car, but sends it off to a mechanic. If he's like me, and can avoid positions of leadership (not hard to do if you're a California Democrat living in Utah county ), he may have to write on Sunday during the children's nap time. If he's truly fortunate to have access to a computer in his work, and his boss is an understanding soul, he can maybe steal some time at work to dash off a page or two of his latest novel during lunch. -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle, an organization of professionals Read about the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 21 Mar 2001 09:13:05 -0700 on 3/20/01 2:37 PM, Jacob Proffitt at Jacob@Proffitt.com wrote: >> I should also say I've only been at teaching them the chore lists for a >> year or two, I'm a slow starter. Just never give up, right? Anyone have a >> good system that works for encouraging sluggish children? I didn't have >> chores growing up; I don't think it was useful not to, and want to change >> that for my children, but I also don't have a solid, built-in system I >> remember from childhood. We started out by always doing the chores with them (folding laundry, drying dishes, etc) and it was always great sponteneous talking time (still is). Plus they had fun doing them and it wasn't such a chore when they had to do them alone. S. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] Humor Date: 21 Mar 2001 09:25:10 -0700 on 3/20/01 12:52 PM, Scott Tarbet at starbet@timp.net wrote: > One of my personal heros, Bruiser McConkie, despite his monumental > testimony, dour Conference stand demeanor, and huge intellectual > attainments, drew a careful distinction once between reverence for things > sacred and being what he called "long-faced Mormons". If God is love and we > are that we might have joy, keeping ourselves artificially depressed is > itself a species of sin. While touring with the BYU Young Ambassadors in China in the 80's I had the great fun of having Elder and Sister McConkie as tour leaders. One night before the show he announced that he and Amelia would be doing soundcheck. He came out in an oversized red styrofoam cowboy hat and she wore a straw bonnet and parasol. They proceded to murder "Blood on the Saddle," the only song he could remember from Disneyland's Hoop-de-doo Review. I can hardly tell you how funny it was or how delighted they were to have us all in tears laughing on the floor. Maybe it was something in the water? I should mention that he also solemnly rededicated Mainland China land for the preaching of the gospel on that same trip. "For every thing there is a season, a time to laugh, a time..." Now, am I quoting the OT or The Byrds? :-) S. -- Steven Kapp Perry, songwriter and playwright http://www.stevenkappperry.com http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Fame and Ego Date: 21 Mar 2001 09:27:57 -0700 LuAnn Staheli: > Believe me, I know all about celebrities. I worked for Alan Osmond >Productions for ten years and I've met hundreds of celebrities. Some have >been nice, others are jerks. David Letterman was trying to break into the >comedy world when I saw him in LA doing a TV Gameshow pilot. He was there >for the purpose of gaining national exposure. My friend and I tried to >strike up a conversation with him, talking about our mutual homestate. He >wanted nothing to do with being friendly to anyone in the audience. It >certainly soured me on him. . . . > Speaking of rudeness, was that your column in the Daily Herald that >completely lambasted Donny Osmond a few days ago? Shame on you! Donny is >one of the hardest working and absolute nicest people I've ever met, and >that's not just because I worked for his brother. I met Donny, too. He was really nice. You'll notice I didn't claim he wasn't nice in my column; it was some of his work I was making fun of. Is there a new rule, that the only celebrities we're allowed to satirize are the ones who "deserve" it because they're rude to their public? Where can I find the database that tells me which ones are fair targets and which ones are not? Eric D. Snider -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "bob/bernice hughes" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry (was: Satire) Date: 21 Mar 2001 09:59:08 -0700 >>Other than the Moderator, how many here actually read the poetry in _Lord >>of the Rings_ the first time through? >> >>-- Ronn! :) >> >>[MOD: I must confess: not me either. But then, I was 10 years old at the >>time...] > >Uh, me. :-) Is that weird? I didn't know that was weird. Am I the only one? > >I can't stand to skip things when I read, I might miss something important. > >Linda Adams >adamszoo@sprintmail.com >http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo > It is not weird. Enough people like the poetry in _Lord of the Rings_ that HarperCollins published a book of just the poetry from the trilogy. The book is nicely illustrated by someone named Alan Lee with those mystical soft fuzzy pictures. My copy doesn’t have a US$ price, though, only pounds and Aussie dollars. Hmmm, there must not be a market in the U.S. Bob Hughes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kellene Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 21 Mar 2001 13:07:19 -0700 I've not said much about writing schedules, thinking someone would suggest my schedule. But they haven't, so I guess if I think it's a worthy idea, it's up to me. For the past four years, I have written after my children go to bed. Some night I crawl into bed at 4 p.m. [MOD: I assume a.m. is meant here and in the following sentences.] Some nights I'm in bed by 2 p.m. And other nights when I can't even prop my eyes up with toothpicks, I'm in bed by midnight. By probably 80 percent of the time, I'm up until 2 p.m. or later writing. Granted, I am less awake during the day than I would like to be, and I'm also recognizing that as I get older, I may have to refine this a bit and make it a 50/50 proposition. But also as I get older, my children will be heading off to school, and I'll have more freedom during the day. So there's an anticipated trade-off there. Anyway, not the ideal writing schedule, but the one that has worked for me. Kellene Ricks Adams - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: Re: [AML] Las Vegas Booksigning Date: 21 Mar 2001 13:29:07 -0700 How wonderful, Linda! I remember so well when I had a baby with me during a book signing. It was my first signing, and Julia was only two months old. Of course, I didn't get nearly as much attention as the other writer there--Barbara Barrington whatever-her-last-name-is. She had a crowned, mini-skirted beauty queen with her. Barbara was doing make-overs, and I was just sitting there trying to look professional. My mother came by and said loudly, "This is the best book in all of Mormonism. I'm so thrilled to meet you, Sister Young!" A few minutes later, another lady came by and said, "Well, I don't usually buy fiction, but I heard someone say this was the best book in Mormonism, so I'll buy it." From what I've heard, they really do things well in Vegas for Ladies' Night. But let me assure you, Linda, if things get slow, I will swing by your table and make a huge announcement of all the good things I've heard about your book. (And I HAVE heard good things!) [Margaret Young] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] VIP Playwriting Competition Date: 21 Mar 2001 14:32:32 -0700 > I don't think I've seen it announced here, but I may have missed > it - but I > clipped the article from the Daily Herald. > > Anyway - the fiddler in my band Organic Greens, Nathan > Christensen, won the VIP > arts playwriting competition for his musical "Here in The Heartland." > > The article I clipped mentioned Marylin Brown as invovled with > it. Nathan says > there's going to be a reading of it at the Villa playhouse, but > he's not sure > when. I'd like to know. Anyone have the info? > > --Ivan Wolfe Interesting you should ask, because we at the Villa are anxious to get that scheduled, but haven't been able to get together with Nathan. I quite liked reading his musical and am looking forward to hearing the music and participating in the staged reading. -- Scott Tarbet - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cathy Wilson" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 21 Mar 2001 17:05:04 -0700 Reading Linda Adams' response to raising kids made me hyperventilate and have to go lie down for a few moments :). My ninth kid is now almost 9. I teach at a college half the day, and the other half the day can choose to do things (I usually do editing/writing for other people, but at least I can choose). The kids clean the kitchen after dinner. They do their own laundry and help clean the house. Still, I can hardly hear a baby cry without going into catatonia--this after, what, almost 25 years of little kids and babies in carseats and spills . . .I used to wonder if I should just dash a little food on my shirt at the beginning of the meal, just to get it over with :). Cathy (Gileadi) Wilson Editing Etc. 1400 West 2060 North Helper UT 84526 - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Amelia Parkin Subject: [AML] KUSHNER, _Angels in America_ Query Date: 21 Mar 2001 15:56:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) A quest for information: I'm a graduate student at the University of Virginia, working on my masters thesis. I'm writing my thesis on Progress, Mormonism, and _Angels in America_. I'm wondering if any of you know of critical articles written about _Angels in America_ by Mormon authors or that deal with the themes of Mormonism and/or progress in _Angels in America_. I have found an article published within the last year or two in Dialoge (entitled "Through a Glass Darkly: Mormons as perceived by crticis' reviews of Angels in America" by Daniel Stout, Joseph Straubhaar, and Gayle Newbold) and another in Sunstone by David Pace (ca. 1994?). Does anyone know of other articles I should look at? I have also found the discussion that took place on this list a while ago; it's included as part of a very useful website dedicated to _Angels_. I'd appreciate any help possible. amy ************************************************ Amelia Parkin ap8w@virginia.edu Department of English University of Virginia - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN FCMA to Host Songwriters Workshop at BYU: Faith Centered Music Association Press Release Date: 22 Mar 2001 21:01:35 -0600 Music Association Press Release 20Mar01 A4 [From Mormon-News. This event may be over by the time the list comes back online but, just in case, here it is. "The Refiner's Fire" breakout session looks challenging. Do writers ever do anything like this? Larry.] [MOD: If anyone on the List was there, would you be willing to tell us how this went?] FCMA to Host Songwriters Workshop at BYU PROVO, UTAH -- The Faith Centered Music Association (FCMA), in conjunction with BYU, is pleased to announce the 2nd annual FCMA Workshop, to be held this Saturday, March 24th at the Conference Center (Harmon Building) on the BYU campus. Admission to the workshop is free to FCMA members and students with current ID. Application forms for membership in the FCMA will be available during workshop registration, beginning at 9 a.m. on Saturday. The workshops will address issues such as balancing a career in music and a family, developing songwriting skills, building a fan base and using the Internet to promote music. There will also be a critique session for aspiring songwriters. A Songwriters in the Round concert and an open mic night will round out the day's activities. The FCMA is anon-profit organization dedicated to promoting and encouraging the growth of faith-centered music. Staffed entirely by volunteers and governed by a board of directors, the FCMA recognizes excellence in faith-centered music by with the annual PEARL Awards, a Grammy-like awards program. The organization also provides educational opportunities for aspiring artists with workshops like this one held annually at BYU. The schedule for the workshop is below: 9:00am: Registration (Membership applications will be available.) 9:30-10:00am: Welcome and Business- "The Mission of the FCMA" 10:00-11:15am: Breakout Session (There are 2 options) Option A: Internet Update. Tools, ideas, and the current state of LDS music on the internet. Moderator: Brad Thompson, LDS Musicians Jefferson Fairbanks, LDS Music World Mark Hansen, LDS Musicians Option B: "I give you my word" Lyricists and Composers, pushing toward excellence, and not just finishing the song. Moderator: Don Stirling Final panelists to be determined. 11:30a-1:00p: General Session Music and Family Life: The Balancing Act Moderator: Greg Hansen, Steve Perry, Barry Gibbons, Julia Davis Allen, Shane Jackman 1:00p-2:30p: Lunch Break 2:30p-3:45p: General Session Performance as a Fan Building Tool Moderator: Bob Ahlander 4:00-5:30p: Breakout Session (There are 2 options) Option A: "The Refiner's Fire" * (See Disclaimer) Song critique session Moderator: Barry Gibbons, Ron Simpson, BYU, Janine Laskey, NSAI Option B: "From Hooper, UT to Hit song USA" Jim Funk and Eric Hickenlooper on how they wrote, submitted and charted with the hit recorded by Kenny Rogers "Buy me a Rose." 5:30-7:00p: Dinner Break 7:00-7:45p: Songwriters in the Round, By invitation 8:00-9:00p: Open Mic Live Performances, Random Drawing * Disclaimer for "The Refiner's Fire" For those brave souls who want to participate in this session, please read the following: Your song must be submitted as if to a publisher and/or record label. Songs must be on a cassette or CD, as no live performances will be allowed. There must be an accompanying lyric sheet (it might be a good idea to have copies for those present as well.) The songs cannot be longer than 4 minutes. BE PREPARED-those critiquing the songs are being asked to critique as if they were the potential publisher/record label. They may only listen to the first few minutes or seconds of your song. This session may be brutal, but hopefully it will also be fun and informative. ### >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 22 Mar 2001 00:32:24 -0700 Sharlee Glenn wrote: > The last time I tried to work on a project at the computer while > my three year old was awake, he dumped an entire box (42 loads) of Tide into > the washing machine, then climbed in after it! I hope you're keeping a journal at least. This event must end up in a story some day. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 22 Mar 2001 00:35:29 -0700 "Brent J. Rowley" wrote: > Rachel Nunes wrote: > > > > > >5. Wear modest pajamas when you are writing. > > I can attest to the fact that she really DOES. I've been to her door at > mid-morning, and she has very nice ... uhhumm ... modest ... jammies. (her hair > was a disaster, but who's counting?) Two writers of the opposite sex meeting at the door in jammies in mid-morning, while their spouses are presumably off doing their "real" jobs? Hmmmmm! > When I get up, I put on sweats, a T-shirt, and thongs (the feet kind.). Whew! I'm glad you clarified that. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Humor (was: Satire) Date: 22 Mar 2001 00:38:59 -0700 James Picht wrote: > To that end I've suggested to the bishop that a paddling room be > designated where children might be disciplined. Not wishing good paddlings to be > entirely wasted on children, I expect to make use of that room myself. On writers of the opposite sex who meet at the door mid-mornings in jammies and thongs? -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Date: 22 Mar 2001 02:50:42 -0600 At 21:21 19-03-01 -0700, Annette Lyon wrote: >"our leaders are serious men, and to emulate them requires that we be >serious, too. " > >I'm not sure which leaders you refer to, but many of the leaders I am aware >of have a great sense of humor. We recently had Elder Holland at our stake >conference, and the man was a crack-up, especially at the Saturday >leadership meeting (which is a bit more casual than the actual Sunday >conference session). Elder Oaks, although he can look quite stern >(especially with his bald head), is hilarious. And President Hinkley himself >is very funny on a regular basis, as are Elders Maxwell and Monson and . . . >you get the idea. Joseph Smith has already been brought up in this area, >too. The point is that humor has a proper time and place. Some members may >assume otherwise, since the leaders are generally formal, although I recall >several moments of laughter even during General Conference in recent years. >There ARE situations where humor is out of place. Laughing in sacrament >meeting is inappropriate, for example, and I can picture President Hinkley Apparently the Celestial Room of the temple is not one of those situations, based on some of President Hinckley's remarks during the dedication of the Birmingham temple last fall. -- Ronn! :) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] VIP Playwriting Competition Date: 22 Mar 2001 16:28:36 -0700 Ivan, I'm so glad you noticed! We really liked Nathan's play, and yes, there will be a public reading. I will let you know as soon as it jells! It's a musical, so we have to get with Nathan and decide if we can include any music also. I'm not on the main track of the Villa theatre anymore (trying to get all my writing done before I die) but I can tap in, since my husband runs it. I will get the information as quickly as I can to you! Thanks for noticing! Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Fame and Ego Date: 22 Mar 2001 16:43:45 -0700 LuAnn was VERY generous to hook me (with best-selling Rachel) in some vague way to some pie-in-the-sky celebratory status. Or was that "Marilyn" really Marilyn Monroe? I just assumed it might be me, but actually, when you think about it, Marilyn Monroe really fits the context (and many other contexts) a lot better. (Anyway, you made my day, LuAnn!) Marilyn Brown ----- Original Message ----- > As I've heard from numerous celebrities, when they put themselves > into a public situation, then the public has the right to meet with them. > I've seen this be true with LDS authors as well. Rachel and Marilyn have > both spoken at writer's workshops I've sponsored and they were willing to > speak, sign autographs, and chat with people for as long as there were > people who wanted to meet them. Bravo to you both! > Lu Ann - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 22 Mar 2001 17:01:58 -0700 Hey, Sharlee, I have to take my hat off to you for concentrating on the motherhood. I PROMISE things will change! Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 23 Mar 2001 19:16:25 -0700 Here's my two bits on Linda's question about scheduling writing as a mom. I haven't had any pressing deadlines for over a year, but in the six and a half years I have been seriously writing I have produced quite a lot--and in the process have learned a few tricks. First, don't bother waiting for the muse. You don't have that luxury anymore. I used to think I had to "be in the mood" and have total silence and no interruptions to write. I have since learned to write in all sorts of situations: fifteen or twenty minute snippets of time, with interruptions from kids, phones, "Arthur" or "DragonTales" in the background, etc. etc. A few years back when our toddlers were allowed to watch only two hours of television a day, I worked my writing into a two-hour block TV block when the baby was asleep anyway. That two hour block no longer exists--my writing schedule is constantly in flux as the kids age and their schedules change. Sometimes I've done twenty minutes in the morning, a half hour in the afternoon while kids are happy and playing together, and another forty-five after they go to bed. Kristin Randle writes from 5:30 to 7:00 am before the kids get up. L.M. Montgomery wrote early mornings as a school marm, but couldn't when she worked at a newspaper, so she fit it into tiny pieces of spare time at the office (we're talking a few minutes here and there, no "blocks" of time). If you have to do it, you can. Sometimes it helps to find the path of least resistance. Basically, take what you can get and make the most of it. Second, I've managed to increase how much time I have by creating routines and schedules for the housework. I also enlist the kids, teaching them to do basic chores (even having a three-year-old put her dirty clothes in the laundry basket, make her bed and put her breakfast dishes away can really help). My house is far from Good Housekeeping, but as long as I stick to the routine, the laundry, dishes and basic clutter factor are generally in control (although my husband might disagree with that assessment). Unlike Rachel, I do my housework in the morning. I have better luck writing (at least this school year) in the afternoons when my kindergartner goes to school and the baby sleeps, leaving my three-year-old to play computer games or paint or otherwise entertain herself while I write (when I'm lucky; sometimes we end up making cookies together). Routines have given me more (not a ton, but more) time to both spend with the kids and pursue my writing. Third, it seems like "inner writers" are very much like children: they can be discouraged easily, but they can also be coaxed and bribed easily. Sometimes I can find extra motivation to get in those extra words _somehow_ if I've promised myself a bowl of ice cream or some other luxury afterwards. One year I got a big box of chocolates for Valentines, and my husband jokingly bet that I couldn't make it last more than a couple of days. I took the challenge, and allowed myself a single chocolate only on days when I wrote 2,000 words. I did it, and had nearly an entire novel completed by the time the chocolates were gone (on many days I surprised myself by getting in 3,000 words). As far as shopping goes, I've finally found a way that works for me that doesn't eat up a ton of time. At the beginning of the month I do a huge shopping trip, buying everything I can for the month (I create a list all month long as we run out of items. This saves time, too.). This way I avoid the Weird Things Linda talked about, and I don't have to worry about getting to the store for another four weeks. Later on I can make a quick trip to the store (or even better, hubby can run there on the way home for work) for small trips like when we run out of basics (bread, milk, produce). This keeps me sane, and saves me a ton of time. I've also ended up spending less money. Go figure. Finally, dealing with blocks and those times you really do need your muse: I find that my brain, at least, can access the creative side at seemingly "brainless" times. I make a point of thinking about a character, a conflict, or other issue while I exercise, shower, vacuum, cook, or drive (especially without the radio). It's amazing how many insights I have had by pondering my writing during otherwise busy times (when I can't "write" but what I'm doing doesn't require a lot of brainpower). Anyway, that's been my experience so far. For what it's worth. I enjoy hearing others' experiences. Rachel's comments were very helpful, too. Annette Lyon - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rose Green" Subject: Re: [AML] Questions for Anne Perry Date: 25 Mar 2001 18:16:59 -0600 Here are a few questions for Anne Perry: 1. There are a lot of gruesome events in her books, something that seems to go with the territory of murder mysteries. That is, she writes a lot about sin. How does her gospel perspective make her address these kinds of issues differently from those who don't have this kind of perspective? (Or, does it affect her writing at all with regards to the warped stuff some of her characters do?) 2. What kinds of ideas (if any) does she want the average reader to come away with after reading her books? How about for the LDS reader? 3. Do non-LDS readers seem to have any special reactions to her being LDS? Or do they not really care? 4. What kind of reaction have non-LDS readers had to Tathea? LDS readers? Rose Green _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rose Green" Subject: [AML] Fictionalizing Reality Date: 25 Mar 2001 18:24:56 -0600 Here's a question for those of you who have done a lot more writing than I have: How does one deal with the seemingly contrasting ideas of writing from what you know, and the statement "the characters are fictional and any similarity to real persons, either living or dead, is coincidental"? It seems like if you are going to write about something that you 1) know about and 2) really care about, there is going to be some kind of trace to a real incident or to real people. What about that student awhile back who wanted to write the sad story of her ex-Mormon bishop father? Wouldn't she have run the risk of a libel suit if people felt offended enough? How have you handled this? I'm not just talking about about digging up scandal and venting one's feelings about perceived injustices, but less inflamatory things as well. What are your experiences with this? Rose Green _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN The Last of Card? Tragedy Yields Writer's Block, Last Tour: Knight Ridder/Tribune Date: 23 Mar 2001 22:50:58 -0600 Knight Ridder/Tribune 21Mar01 A2 [From Mormon-News] The Last of Card? Tragedy Yields Writer's Block, Last Tour CHICAGO, ILLINOIS -- In a recent interview with the Chicago Tribune, Mormon science fiction writer Orson Scott Card candidly discussed his life and writing as well as the reasons why he has decided to make this book tour his last. He also revealed that he has been unable to write for the past five months. The prolific Card is best known for his Nebula and Hugo-award winning novels "Enders Game" and "Speaker for the Dead." But beyond these novels, Card has drawn on his Mormon heritage for two series; the 'Homecoming' series which is based on the Book of Mormon, and the 'Tales of Alvin Maker' series, based on the life of Joseph Smith. He has also written several nonfiction works and regularly writes for periodicals. In fact, Card claims that more than half his writing each year is usually not science fiction. Despite the lucrative nature of his science fiction writings, Card has also maintained a commitment to religious writing, producing the novels "Stone Tables" (about Moses) and "Sarah" (about the wife of Abraham) in recent years. But a recent family tragedy has left Card with severe writers block. Five months ago his 17-year-old son Charles died of the complications from cerebral palsy. "The whole family was at the beach, and he died, his heart stopped. But we were all together and he had two days where he was laughing and happy," Card describes his passing. "So if we were going to pick a time for him to go, and to be free of the body that had been a burden to him all his life, that was the time." But Card says that the death was particularly painful, and that book tours put him too far away from his family for too long, making the death even more painful. His son's death also came just a few years after Card and his wife, Kristine, watched their premature baby girl die in their arms on the day she was born in 1977. "I've faced that now twice, and I feel . . . like that's my quota. I've told my children now that I if they die before me, I'm not going to their funeral. Their job now is to bury me; the next funeral in our family is mine." He adds that the deaths have had a profound impact. "[Losing a child] is the worst thing in the world. Once you have children, you realize that you are held hostage by those children. They are more important to you than yourself." Card also admits that the tragedy is keeping him from writing, "I have not been able to write very much at all. And it'll be interesting to see if I can," he says. But the Tribune's Elder notes that Card doesn't seem as concerned about the writers block as most writers would be. Elder learns that Card's priorities dictate how he looks at the writer's block, "My priorities are first to be as good a father as I can to my children. . . . I try to be a good husband to my wife, a good Mormon, and after that, that's when I start trying to be a good writer, which is pretty far down the line." Through these tragedies and through his successes, Card has remained a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, sometimes surprising interviewers as a result. "A lot of interviewers find it amusing or strange _ and I've had this surprisingly often _ but they'll assume that since I'm a writer of fiction, I must have left the church _ because you can't actually be writer or intellectual and some kind of artist and believe in one of these `primitive religions,'" Card says. "But in fact, I'm a believing, practicing, active Latter-day Saint and make no bones about it." In the interview Card also discusses his social criticism, talking about his politics as a Democrat and his frustration with the party because of Bill Clinton, which led him to vote, he says for George W. Bush. "I try to understand [people], but that doesn't mean that I don't take sides," Card says. "Past interviewers expressed shock when they heard that I was a Democrat, an open-minded person, and was voting for George W. Bush. Why in world should I think just like you because I'm open-minded? That's what gripes me about so-called intellectuals in our society today: They judge whether a person is smart or not, not based on the rigor of his thinking or the process that he goes through, but based on where they reach the same conclusions as they do." Source: Last tour: Tragedy reschedules life of Sci-fi legend Orson Scott Card Knight Ridder/Tribune 21Mar01 A2 By Robert K. Elder >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: RE: [AML] Martindale Quote in Deseret Book Catalog Date: 26 Mar 2001 11:07:29 -0700 Yo, D. Michael, the blurb for "One More River to Cross" in the new Deseret = Book catalog begins, "Called 'The Color Purple for Mormons' by critic D. = Michael Martindale, Standing on the Promises . . ." Is that quote from you AML-List review?=20 How often have publishers used AML-generated quotes (whether AML-List, the = annual, or Irreantum) in their marketing material? Chris Bigelow - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] Humor (was: Satire) Date: 26 Mar 2001 11:26:47 -0700 Thom wrote: > Scott Tarbet wrote: > > > > There ARE situations where humor is out of place. Laughing in > sacrament > > > meeting is inappropriate, for example, > > > > Strenuously disagree. > > You realize, don't you, that Jim's response was one long satirical > comment? His whole post was one screamingly hilarious send-up, so well > written, an excellent example of satire because it seemed so real. > > Great job, Jim! Jim's was, yes. But his wasn't the one I was responding to. -- Scott - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "mjames_laurel" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 26 Mar 2001 11:35:01 -0700 > I'd like to put a word in for LDS male writers, who are also fathers. Thom makes an important point. IMO fathers have as much or more difficulty making time in their lives for writing (and for a lot of other things they'd like to do as well.) Bearing all or most of the responsibility for providing for a family is a huge responsibility, and for those men who pitch in to help around the house, coach little league, take the scouts camping once a month, fix leaky pipes, mow the lawn and shovel snow, help with meals, kids, dishes and grocery shopping, there's little time for writing. Some of the most talented writers I know are fathers who carry a very heavy load. What they do makes what I do look easy. Laurel Brady - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: [AML] Tony MARKHAM, _The Jaxon Files_ (Review) Date: 26 Mar 2001 11:57:48 -0700 Markham, Tony. _The Jaxon Files_. Boulder City, NV: R. K. Books, 1996. Trade paperback, 230 pages. ISBN 1-55978-781-3. $12.95. While I worked as an editor for Covenant Communications, Tony sent a set of submissions that contained some of the most vivid writing I had ever experienced. Images of swarming crows and subterranean dinosaur civilizations flashed through my mind for days (and now years). I recommended both Tony's short stories and his then unfinished novel to the publication committee at Covenant, but they couldn't see the LDS market at that time buying an allegory of Joseph Smith or a science fiction novel that had a Mormon character and nothing else explicitly Mormon. I even argued that we should publish for the sake of good literature, even if it wouldn't break even in the short term. Alas, finances won over art, and I had to write a rejection letter. Years later while reading posts to the Association for Mormon Letters mailing list, I saw a post by Tony. I wrote to him privately and confirmed that except for the passage of time he was the same person. Tony told me he had found a publisher for his book and that we would send me a copy. I read _The Jaxon Files_ and found both renewed delight and subtle disappointment. Tony writes some of the most vivid descriptive scenes. At any time, I can bring to mind the image of the Arizona desert with the setting sun illuminating a crosshatching of fighter-jet contrails above Jackson, the protagonist, as he prepares to spend the night in the desert. Jackson has narrowly escaped from Breath, a bipedal dinosaur from an underground civilization. Country singers could have a heyday with Jackson: he has lost his dog, his truck, and most of his personal belongings; the beautiful woman he meets turns into a lizard; and he turns down eternal life. But Jackson hasn't seen the last of Breath, she takes on both a sympathetic and antagonistic role throughout the book and he makes a somewhat unwilling journey into the underworld along the lines of traditional epic tales. In case you were wondering, Jackson belongs to the Mormon church and attends Brigham Young University. These associations shape much of Jackson's worldview, but provide more of a setting than a source for prominent themes. My disappointment comes primarily from a desire for additional material. I could have enjoyed a novel of twice the length. This desire has both selfish and literary components. I like Tony's writing and would have enjoyed reading more, but also the chapters could have used more connective tissue. Each chapter reads well on its own, but the overall story feels abrupt. By the time you reach the climax, you have seen only a few formative components of Jackson's personality. With some more material, Tony could have fleshed out Jackson's character and made his emotional state at the climax much more unstable, making the ending more of an all or nothing struggle for survival on both the physical and psychological levels. Also with some additional material, Tony could have more fully addressed some of the themes he invokes: reality vs. illusion, fate vs. free will, and good vs. evil. Another disappointment has nothing to do with Tony, but rather with the publisher. R. K. Books typeset _The Jaxon Files_ like online fiction: no paragraph indents, full line breaks between paragraphs, straight not curly quotes. Yech. _The Jaxon Files_ shows a lot of promise for a first novel, especially for a Mormon science fiction novel that takes place in modern day. Tony, write us another one. Please. -- Terry L Jeffress AML Webmaster and AML-List Review Archivist - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Morris Subject: RE: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry Date: 26 Mar 2001 17:06:59 -0800 (PST) --- Scott Tarbet wrote: > If you'll read back to the question to which I > quipped a response, you'll > see that the Mormon part of the answer was inherent > in the question. I > didn't single us out. Like you, I don't think we're > much different than the > general population in that way. > Since I was the one who brought up the question. I'll go ahead and re-post what I wrote which was tacked on to my discussion of Whitney's _Love and the Light_. I wrote: "I wonder how 'mainstream' Mormon readers would respond to the poem these days." The question in my mind (which didn't translate so well into words---I should have been more conditional in my phrasing) was not so much whether or not Mormons read poetry beyond the greeting card variety, but whether the values/ideas (and humor) expressed in the poem would be of interest/worth to modern Mormon readers. That is: the idea that false learning and the lust for quick money (speculative commerce) are the twin secular evils that threaten faithful Mormons (and are ripe for satirizing), the belief that poetry and prophecy go hand in hand, the valorization of the virtuous, educated convert who has a firm testimony which can not be shaken by apostate or lukewarm members or by his former colleagues, etc. I'm sorry to so specifically reference a work that many list members may not have read (I myself came across it quite by accident), but it periodically infests my mind because it's such a brilliantly flawed work that captures for me both the failures and promise of Mormon literature. But to return to the original context of the question: The passages from it seemed perfect for the satire thread, and my question was directed more towards whether or not modern Mormon audience would see the humor in it, or would they reject a satirical critique of institutions even though they are not our own (the stock market, ivy league universities, etc.). ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Ender's Game_ (Review) Date: 22 Mar 2001 01:28:43 -0700 ENDER'S GAME by Orson Scott Card First printing, January 1985 About a jillion printings after that Currently published by Tor Books Mass market paperback, 357 pages "The Big One" Every so often you come across a creative work that is so legendary, you can no longer look at it with fresh eyes. _Ender's Game_ falls well within that category. It's a legendary book authored by a living legend. When Orson Scott Card drops hints about the financial success of the book, one almost gets the impression he could live off its royalties alone. But is it any good? _Ender's Game_ is the novel that made Orson Scott Card. _Ender's Game_ is the book that started the cycle which allows us to call Card a living legend. _Ender's Game_ is The Big One. If you haven't read _Ender's Game_, you must slink shamefacedly to the bookstore, pick it up, and fix that social gaffe immediately. Otherwise you are boil on the butt of a flea in the fur of a rat in the science fiction or LDS literature landscape. Even the origin of the book is the stuff of legend. Freshly scrubbed Orson Scott Card was a BYU graduate in drama, trying to make a financial go of his own theater and failing miserably at it. He was in debt and at wit's end. In desperation, he resorted to an old love of his--writing science fiction--and penned a lengthy short story called "Ender's Game" (now available for free on his website at http://www.hatrack.com/osc/stories/enders-game.shtml). The story was purchased by science fiction editing great Ben Bova, and the rest is history. Many published short stories and a few published novels later, Card was a respected up-and-coming science fiction author who was considered to have had a strong career from the beginning. Then he decided he wanted to write something called _Speaker for the Dead_, about a fellow who would travel from planet to planet and "speak" the life (a sort of honest and brutally frank eulogy) of deceased people at their funerals. But the book wasn't gelling, and Card wrestled with the problem, searching for a solution. One day he realized that the Speaker for the Dead needed to be an adult Ender Wiggin, the youthful protagonist of his first short story. Suddenly everything fell into place, and again history was about to be made. The only problem was, for Ender Wiggin to be the protagonist of _Speaker for the Dead_, Card needed to novelize _Ender's Game_ so he could set up the newly designated sequel. And that's exactly what he did, with the blessing of his patient and understanding editor who had already contracted for _Speaker_. The plot and the characters of _Ender's Game_ became fleshed out, and the science fiction genre is better for it. Ender became the son of a Catholic father and a Mormon mother in a day when religion was all but illegal. He also became the hero of thousands of kids everywhere who saw in Ender a strong role model whose intelligence could put adults to shame. _Ender's Game_ is now his consistently best-selling book, and required reading in many schools across the country. Most Card fans find their way to him via _Ender's Game_. Many science fiction fans cut their teeth on the book. It's not unheard of that eventually some readers convert to the Gospel, thanks to their introduction to Card through _Ender's Game_. And the legend doesn't stop there. The two most prestigious awards in science fiction are the Hugo and the Nebula--the former chosen by readers, the latter by authors. _Ender's Game_ won both the Hugo and the Nebula. But that wasn't good enough for the Card legend. When the sequel that started it all, _Speaker for the Dead_, came out, it also won the Hugo and Nebula awards. That had also never been done before. Card's standing as one of the science fiction greats was assurred. Like I said, the book is legendary. But is it any good? Duh. It's a book that works at many levels. If you're a kid who likes to see kids one-up adults, Ender's exploits in Battle School as he outwits every challenge thrown at him by the teachers will thrill you. If you're a connoisseur of excitement and action, the deadly confrontations Ender has with fiercely envious colleagues and the fascinating descriptions of training battle after battle will satiate you. If you're a lover of deep, multifaceted stories, _Ender's Game_ is loaded with deep meaning layered intricately throughout, as Card explores the moral implications of exploiting and destroying young children to save the human race from a superior alien threat, and the justification of genocide for self-defense. If you like hard science fiction, _Ender's Game_ contains one of the coolest and most famous gizmos in all of science fiction: the Battle Room, where kid soldiers can train in 3D, zero-G environments. Military interaction, political intrigue, psychological drama, action scenes, tender family moments, heavily-disguised spirituality, even the anticipation of virtual reality and the Internet--it's all there. What's not to like? I'll tell you what's not to like. In the short story, and even more so in the novel, Card horribly telegraphs the surprise ending, making it no surprise at all. And he does so with no need whatsoever. The circumstance that foreshadowed the ending was unnecessary and wouldn't have been missed. He should have left it out and allowed the ending to have the huge impact it should have had all along. Fortunately, there is so much going on in _Ender's Game_ that the surprise ending is only a small payoff in the book, and it's inept handling within an otherwise masterful piece of storytelling doesn't come close to ruining the experience of reading one of the most important books in science fiction. Let me emphasize again, if you haven't read it, do so at once. Order it anonymously online if you have to. They'll protect your identity, and your shameful secret will be safe. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] KUSHNER, _Angels in America_ Query Date: 26 Mar 2001 19:39:20 -0700 I don't know if any of these are what you're looking for--most of these are national publications--but it's a start: Stout, Daniel A., Joseph D. Straubhaar, and Gayle Newbold. "Critics as Audience: Perceptions of Mormons in Reviews of Tony Kushner's Angels in America." In _Religion and Popular Culture_, 187-215. Ames: Iowa State University Press, 2001. [Based on the article in Dialogue; includes bibliographical references, p. 212-15] Ickes, Bob. "Heaven Sent: Will Tony Kushner's _Angels in America_ Rescue Broadway?" _New York_ 26 (April 12, 1993): 42-48. Madison, Cathy. "Tony Kushner: Angels on Broadway." _Columbia_ (spring 1993): 40-41. Evenden, Michael. "Angels in a Mormon Gaze, or, Utopia, Rage, Communitas, Dream Dialogue, and Funhouse-mirror Aesthetics." Sunstone 17, no. 2 (Sept. 1994). Geis, Deborah R., and Steven F. Kruger, eds. _Approaching the Millennium: Essays on Angels in America._ Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press, 1997. Christianson, Frank Quinn. "Literature, Drama, and Film as Instruments of Social Reconstruction: An Interdisciplinary Approach to the Reading of Oppositional Texts." Master's thesis, Brigham Young University. Dept. of English, 1996. Felman, Jyl Lynn. "Lost Jewish (male) souls : a Midrash on Angels in America." _Tikkun_ 10, no. 3 (May/June 1995): 27-30. Savran, David. "Ambivalence, Utopia, and a Queer Sort of Materialism: How Angels in America Reconstructs the Nation." _Theatre Journal_ 47, no. 2 (May 1995): 208-77. Norden, Edward. "From Schnitzler to Kushner." _Commentary_ 99, n.1 (Jan. 1995): 52-55. Cook, Dwight. _Silver Angels and E-mail: A Father and Son Embrace Ambiguity._ [Salt Lake City: Family Fellowship, 1994]. Olson, Walter. "Winged Defeat." _National Review_, 24 Jan. 1994, v.46, n.1, p.72. Simon, John. "Angelic Geometry." _New York_, 26, n.48 (Dec. 6, 1993): 130-32. Marny Parkin - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Edward Hogan Subject: RE: [AML] Humor (was: Satire) Date: 26 Mar 2001 14:21:01 -0500 - Scott Tarbet wrote: > > There ARE situations where humor is out of place. Laughing in sacrament > > meeting is inappropriate, for example, > > Strenuously disagree. I disagree too. My aim in most of my sacrament meeting talks is to evoke as much laughter as possible. I'm usually pretty successful. Ned - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] Mormon Reading of Poetry (was: Satire) Date: 26 Mar 2001 12:37:43 -0700 > It is not weird. Enough people like the poetry in _Lord of the > Rings_ that > HarperCollins published a book of just the poetry from the > trilogy. The book > is nicely illustrated by someone named Alan Lee with those mystical soft > fuzzy pictures. My copy doesn’t have a US$ price, though, only pounds and > Aussie dollars. Hmmm, there must not be a market in the U.S. > > Bob Hughes Hadn't heard about this new book! Okay, I'm off to the bookstore to grab it . . . but not until I comment that Alan Lee's LOTR paintings are absolutely wonderful. One of several places online to get a feeling for some of them is http://anduin.eldar.org/artgallery/tolkien/alee/justpixs.html -- Scott Tarbet - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] B.J. ROWLEY, _My Body Fell Off!_ (Review) Date: 26 Mar 2001 16:52:57 +0000 Thanks for this review. I reviewed the book some time ago and found the astral projection part to be most objectionable. One can hardly expect young people to distinguish between one form of occultism and another. I'm really not an old fuddie-duddie, but I think we need to be careful how we let ideas clearly not within the bounds of the Gospel be introduced as somehow acceptable. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: RE: [AML] Martindale Quote in Deseret Book Catalog Date: 26 Mar 2001 16:54:10 +0000 They used one of my cites on a book about a year ago, I forget which one. They seem to like positive reviews, for some reason > At 11:07 AM 3/26/01 -0700, you wrote: >Yo, D. Michael, the blurb for "One More River to Cross" in the new Deseret >Book catalog begins, "Called 'The Color Purple for Mormons' by critic D. >Michael Martindale, Standing on the Promises . . ." > >Is that quote from you AML-List review? > >How often have publishers used AML-generated quotes (whether AML-List, the >annual, or Irreantum) in their marketing material? > >Chris Bigelow - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Fictionalizing Reality Date: 26 Mar 2001 20:07:31 -0700 Rose Green wrote: > > Here's a question for those of you who have done a lot more writing than I > have: How does one deal with the seemingly contrasting ideas of writing > from what you know, and the statement "the characters are fictional and any > similarity to real persons, either living or dead, is coincidental"? It > seems like if you are going to write about something that you 1) know about > and 2) really care about, there is going to be some kind of trace to a real > incident or to real people. Unless a character or event is openly meant to be the real thing (biography, historical novel, etc.), you'd better develop them to a level where they are truly not the starting point, or you are writing inferior fiction. People can already read about real people and real events in history books, newspapers, biographies, magazines, etc. What readers want from fiction is to learn more about people and events than they can from real life. That means you as a writer, even if you start from a real person or event, must develop these things so thoroughly and completely, infusing them with truthful insights about life that come from your fertile imagination, that the end product should bear little resemblance to the starting point. You the author can't know about real people or events well enough to write good fiction about them, therefore you are required to fictionalize them to make them real and insightful. Your end product should be so much more a product of your own creativity than a product of the real-life starting point that it is completely truthful to say "the characters and events are fictional and any similarity to real persons, either living or dead, is coincidental." If they aren't, you haven't developed them well enough. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Martindale Quote in Deseret Book Catalog Date: 26 Mar 2001 20:11:48 -0700 Christopher Bigelow wrote: > > Yo, D. Michael, the blurb for "One More River to Cross" in the new Deseret Book catalog begins, "Called 'The Color Purple for Mormons' by critic D. Michael Martindale, Standing on the Promises . . ." > > Is that quote from you AML-List review? Yes, that's from my AML-List review. > How often have publishers used AML-generated quotes (whether AML-List, the annual, or Irreantum) in their marketing material? Margaret may have been instrumental in geting that quote used. So I dont' know that it's representative of normal Deseret Book behavior. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 26 Mar 2001 22:31:44 -0600 Annette Lyon: One year I got a big box of chocolates for Valentines, and my husband jokingly bet that I couldn't make it last more than a couple of days. I took the challenge, and allowed myself a single chocolate only on days when I wrote 2,000 words. I did it, and had nearly an entire novel completed by the time the chocolates were gone (on many days I surprised myself by getting in 3,000 words). _______________ Wow! A whole novel from a box of chocolates. Now that's creativity. Way to go! Larry Jackson ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: Re: [AML] Alan Rex MITCHELL, _Angel of the Danube_ (Review) Date: 26 Mar 2001 21:17:25 -0700 For the AML listers living on the Wasatch Front (or visiting conference weekend), Alan Rex Mitchell will be giving a reading sponsored by the BYU English Department on Friday March 30 at 12:00 noon in the JKHB room 2084. He will be reading from his novel, Angel of the Danube, discussing missionary fiction, and answering questions. Yeah, I know...it's not Las Vegas, but you have to go where sinners are. Alan PS. D. Michael, I wish you would have offered the Indian underware motif before I went to print--Barry could have used it. And stay away from my daughter. A. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN LDS Columnist Wins Religious Journalism Award: Deseret News Date: 26 Mar 2001 22:26:19 -0600 24Mar01 B2 [From Mormon-News] LDS Columnist Wins Religious Journalism Award SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- For the second time in four years, Deseret News columnist, Jerry Johnston, has been awarded the Wilbur Award for outstanding religion columns by the Religion Communicators Council. The 2000 Wilbur will be presented to Johnston on April 28, 200l during the council's annual convention in Minneapolis. The Religious Communicators Council is an interfaith group that awards Wilburs to selected films, TV programs, broadcasts for the content of religious material "that recognizes excellence in communicating religious issues, values and themes in public media." The prize is named for Marvin C. Wilbur, who while serving as the Religion Council's executive officer for 27 years, was also the information officer for the Presbyterian Church. Johnston, 52, is a Brigham City native and a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He earned a bachelor's degree from Utah State and a master's degree from the University of New Mexico. His degrees were both in Spanish literature. He came to the Deseret News in 1976 as a sports writer and later was a feature writer and columnist for "Ideally Speaking" a weekly religion column. Johnston is the author of two books, "Spirits in the Leaves" and "Dads and Other Heroes." He has received numerous journalism and writing awards, including first place from the Utah Arts Council and the Utah Chapter of the Society of Professional Journalists. He won an Associated Press writing contest in 1995. Johnston received the Mark E. Petersen Excellence in Writing Award in 1979. "I think the best way is to tap into universal themes that all people can relate to their own lives," said Johnston of his award winning writing style. Rick Hall, Deseret News Managing Editor said, "Jerry somehow consistently puts a subtle but impossible to ignore touch on his column that makes reading it both entertaining and enlightening." "But, amazingly, you don't realize that until you're done. The delivery is so soft that you're finished reading before you know you've been hit. But there's no doubt about what he was trying to say. It's clear that he gives his writing as much attention as his message. And, somehow, neither overshadows the other. His column is just a great read," Hall concluded. Johnston recently suffered a heart attack while at the Dallas-Fort Worth Airport. "Because of my heart problems, I wrote fewer columns last year and readers seemed more please," he quipped. "I guess that means when the time comes that I don't write any, they'll be delighted." Source: News columnist wins 2000 Wilbur Award Deseret News 24Mar01 B2 http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,270007449,00.html? By Lynn Arave: Deseret News staff writer Prize recognizes excellence in religious writing >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "TJ Nunes" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 27 Mar 2001 01:00:24 -0800 Beware, this is long. (If you remember, I am a novelist.) Linda wrote: > I've been trying (without a lot of success) to get stuff done in the > morning and start writing from 1-4 each day, but it's not working. I think writing first might really help you with the rest of the day. Some people are disciplined enough to write later (or even during the night), but I find that I have to be fresh in order to be in my best writing form. > I would really like to know your secret for HOW you motivate them to work. With each child the motivation is different. My oldest son (11) loves to play computer games and read books. More rarely, he plays with friends. So he has to get his chores done before he can do any of those things. Although sometimes when he's having a rough day (meaning a lot of homework), we'll compromise and give him an hour doing something he wants to do before hitting the chores--if he promises not to complain while he does them. (And sometimes when he has too much homework, I let him off chores altogether. After all, he's a year ahead in school already and I don't want him too stressed.) I find it helps for me to sympathize with him if he's feeling overwhelmed or simply doesn't want to do something (with the idea that every feeling is validated, but not necessarily condoned). Once he knows I understand his feelings, we'll commiserate together for a while and then he'll go and do exactly what he should. He even gets up early in the morning to practice on the piano so that he won't have to do it after school. I don't wake him up for this, but let him take full responsibility. If he doesn't get up, he'll have to practice later. After the first few weeks, he has never missed a morning. I tell him he must practice, but he chooses when. Now he even wakes up the girls so one of them has time to practice the piano before school as well. My oldest daughter (9) is motivated by a desire to play with friends. If she wants to play, she has to finish her chores and practice the piano first. And she has to do these things quickly in order to have time to play before Dad comes home and we have dinner. My only problem with her is getting her to do a good job, and I have to check her chores occasionally to keep her on her toes. I've been known to call out, "Play something of value!" many times as she practices on the piano because she has already sped through all her assigned songs. My second daughter loves to please, but she is a dreamer and I often have to remind her what she should be doing. For instance, she would never remember to practice the piano if someone didn't remind her. (She makes up wonderful songs, though, when she finally gets to the piano.) I used to sit her down every day after school and have a conversation like this: "So what are you going to do now, Catia?" "Change out of my uniform?" "Yes. And then?" "Go to the bathroom?" (Yes, she needs reminding still at age seven because she's in dreamland even when nature calls.) "And then?" "My chores." (Or playing the piano if she wasn't the one who practiced that morning.) "So we have uniform, bathroom, and chores, right?" "Right! And then I can play." "Yep. Go to it, then. And let me know as soon as you're done." (This so that she knows I expect results--she loves reporting back.) As the past two years have gone by, I no longer need to do this as much with her. She knows what needs to be done and does it--except for remembering her piano practicing on her own which we are still working on. She still likes to come and tell me when she's done. I think it has helped having her (and the other two) in school. When I used to homeschool them, I had to be more vigilant about chores because they were accustomed to me mandating everything. The school I send them to now has done a great job teaching them responsibility and duty. I understand that you are reluctant to use negative reinforcement. But taking away a privilege is not necessarily negative. I believe it teaches them cause and effect. Giving children a strong work ethic will only help them succeed in life, and if you don't do it, who will? It may sound cruel, but basically we have to find out what it is that our children care about and withhold that privilege if they don't cooperate. When they do participate, give them what they want (within reason, of course). What the privilege is will vary with each child, but I'm sure you can find something that will work. Be strong and firm. Don't be mean, but allow them to suffer the consequences of their choices. (Be sure they know what the consequences will be before you begin!) I would also suggest reading several child care books. This is how I have found many ideas that actually work with my particular children. I do give a lot of verbal positive reinforcement--and hugs and tickles. I also used to ALWAYS check chores when they were done and make them do it again when it wasn't right. Sometimes my oldest daughter would clean her room four times before she could go play. I had to keep coming back in to "help" her find the mess. (But it is important not stand over them every second or else they won't become self-motivated--if that makes sense. Leave for a while and come back in to give encouragement and then leave again, repeating as often as necessary.) Now I just have to ask if her chores are good enough to be checked and she knows exactly what that means. Another thing I did was to sit the children down at a special home evening where we wrote out all the chores on slices of a paper pie (pieces were of varying sizes to show the time it takes to do different chores). I included shopping, laundry, writing, and my husband's work, as well as all the other chores in the house. The children could clearly see how much work there was to do--impossible for one or two people. Then we talked about responsibility and how important it is that we all pull our own weight in the family. I made a very big deal out of the whole evening and even let the children pick out the chores they felt they could be responsible for. After that night, I noticed a big difference in their attitudes. Also, I have noticed that it helps when BOTH parents check up on the chores in the beginning and then later at least once a week. For us, having regular chores every day helps develop the habit of working. I don't change jobs weekly like some families because it never worked for us. On Saturdays, we all clean together and usually the children end up doing something other than their regular chores. I believe that children, like authors, need deadlines. On school days, chores have to be finished before Dad comes home. In the summer, they have to be done before noon and before other privileges (playing, computer, etc.). On Saturday mornings my husband and I work right along with the children to make sure it's done well because this is the day we're really teaching them HOW to clean. Once they finally understood that we were going to do NOTHING but clean until it was done well, they buckled right down and worked together to get it done as fast as possible. And also like writers, I believe children need a day away from work. So on Sundays, we have no official chores. We do pitch in to clean up after meals and to put away the three totes of Legos and blocks we customarily bring out for Sunday family play, but nothing else. I almost never use the TV as an incentive for doing chores, though I must say that I do let the little boys watch an hour or so of learning programs or certain videos while the others are at school. I especially love the animal show Zaboomafoo or whatever it's called. Not only does it teach, but it frees me to write uninterrupted for a half hour. (Yay!) After a time chores will become a habit. One day you'll look up and say, "Wow, they're actually helping!" Of course, we still have moments when I have to lock myself in my room and calm down before I say or do something I might regret, but mostly life with my crew is pretty organized . . . and even fun. But it does take a long time. I would really recommend the special family night and that you involve your husband so that they understand how important this is to the whole family. > As for the shopping; I admit I'm a control freak when it comes to the I know this is one of the hardest areas for women to relinquish. But unless your husband is totally unable to do it, I say let him go shopping on his way home from work. Perhaps go with him the first few times and talk about why you don't buy certain brands, etc. But the bottom line is that you will save hours of precious writing time, and he will get it done much quicker than you can with the kids. He may even enjoy it. I found that my husband did come home with some interesting things at first, but after a while he was better at finding the deals and knowing a good price than I was. It's sort of like the chore thing--you just survive through the first few months and life will get better. If your husband doesn't have time then that's another issue, but if he's willing to try, I say give him a few months to learn how to shop. If he blows the budget, then serve him beans and rice from your storage, with a side dish of whatever weird thing he bought. (Now, if he's habitual spender, this might not work, so use your own judgment!) > Also, do you exercise at all, and where do you fit that in, if you're in Aaaah, exercise. The bane of my existence. This is probably more than anyone on this list wants to know but . . . I love to fit into my clothes. Every time I have a baby, I exercise and watch what I eat religiously until the weight is gone--usually about three months. Imagine my surprise when I still couldn't get rid of the weight from baby number five after a grueling six months. I finally gave up and decided to worry about the extra pounds after I weaned the baby. Well, after about 15 months of simply not eating at the computer, the weight came off. But I am left with flab--AND LOTS OF IT! With a three-week trip to the European coast looming this summer, I have become newly enthused at becoming fit. So now each week I do three or four sessions of walking and three of horrible/grueling/painful toning exercises. The walking I do at night, usually with my dog and one or two of my older kids or a neighbor. That's no problem. But the toning exercises are another story. These I detest utterly and that means I have to do them first thing in the morning--before I give myself excuses not to do them. Once I start, I don't have a problem finishing, but starting is pure torture! In a way it's like writing. I love to write, but sometimes I hate the idea of turning on the computer and sitting in one place. Or I get nervous about the house and yard or about the errands I need be doing. But I have learned that I need to write first or I may never get to it at all. That's why I write first thing in the morning (or second thing on the mornings I've scheduled to do those stupid toning exercises--YUCK!). But this is simply the way I work. You may be different. I don't worry about scheduling exercise when I have an pressing deadline. With me, exercise is always the first thing I throw out if I need more time. If I get around to it, that's fine, but I'm not going to lose sleep over the issue. Because of the steady way I work, though, I seldom have deadlines that demand more than normal day's work. I know many authors who indulge in a feast or famine way of writing, but that has never appealed to me. I guess it's a matter of finding how you work best. Linda, your baby is still small so don't be too hard on yourself. You'll have a lot of time to worry about exercise when your hormones return to normal. (And after your children start taking responsibility for their chores.) Take a walk when you can, but for now you had probably better concentrate on your baby and your novel--in that order! Hope this helps, Rachel _______________________ Rachel Ann Nunes (noon-esh) Best-selling author of the Ariana series and This Time Forever Web page: http://www.rachelannnunes.com E-mail: rachel@rachelannnunes.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: [AML] Depictions of Jesus Date: 27 Mar 2001 07:05:39 -0700 Jonathan, I know this is and old topic, and I hate to bring it up, but... The BBC has come of with there own version of what Jesus looked like. Find it at http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/tv_and_radio/newsid_1243000/1 243954.stm To me, He looks quite Arabic other that the green eyes, which I endorse because they are the same color as mine. Alan Mitchell - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Fictionalizing Reality Date: 27 Mar 2001 10:11:56 -0700 One of the best pieces of work I've ever seen is I CANNOT TELL A LIFE, which takes reality through a person's eyes, though the person can't get it right all the time. (So is that fiction?) We clearly said in the front that this was a "novel" biography. Oh well, we were threatened with a law suit. I don't think our culture is ready for it. Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Las Vegas Booksigning Date: 27 Mar 2001 10:16:23 -0700 FUN! Oh, for a brave mother! Marilyn Brown ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 1:29 PM > How wonderful, Linda! I remember so well when I had a baby with me during a > book signing. It was my first signing, and Julia was only two months old. Of > course, I didn't get nearly as much attention as the other writer > there--Barbara Barrington whatever-her-last-name-is. She had a crowned, > mini-skirted beauty queen with her. Barbara was doing make-overs, and I was > just sitting there trying to look professional. My mother came by and said > loudly, "This is the best book in all of Mormonism. I'm so thrilled to meet > you, Sister Young!" A few minutes later, another lady came by and said, "Well, > I don't usually buy fiction, but I heard someone say this was the best book in > Mormonism, so I'll buy it." - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 27 Mar 2001 09:39:38 -0700 Good, Kellene. I got up at 4:30 in the morning. Marilyn Brown ----- Original Message ----- > For the past four years, I have written after my children go to bed. Some > night I crawl into bed at 4 p.m. [MOD: I assume a.m. is meant here and in > the following sentences.] Some nights I'm in bed by 2 p.m. And other > nights when I can't even prop my eyes up with toothpicks, I'm in bed by > midnight. By probably 80 percent of the time, I'm up until 2 p.m. or later > writing. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Ender's Game_ (Review) Date: 27 Mar 2001 11:54:05 -0700 "D. Michael Martindale" wrote: > > I'll tell you what's not to like. In the short story, and even more so > in the novel, Card horribly telegraphs the surprise ending, making it no > surprise at all. One of the reasons why I can't see why the short story won a Hugo. The novel and its sequels are great and succeed on many levels, but the short story's popularity has always been a mystery to me. -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals -------------------------- Shameless Plug Don't miss the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC! *J. Golden* - a one-man play by James Arrington, starring Marvin Payne *SFX5* - 5 original short science fiction plays *Peculiarities* - a new full-length play by Eric Samuelsen For more information about the Playwrights Circle and our summer festival: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: [AML] Inspirational vs. Interesting Date: 27 Mar 2001 12:50:04 -0700 Which do you consider higher praise: 1) that work was so Inspirational! or = 2) that work was so interesting!? Been thinking about this a bit. I'm defining 'inspirational' as follows: = a work that confirms what I already know or believe to be true, but which = motivates me to live my life more in keeping with I already think is true. = And 'interesting,' I define as: a work that tells me something I didn't = already know or hadn't already thought of, which causes me to rethink = previously held convictions and live my life accordingly. Bad definitions, probably, and also probably a false dichotomy. Still, I = think there's some value in this. What I suspect is that for most Mormons = 'inspirational' is very high praise indeed, and 'interesting' is pretty = luke-warm. But there also exists a certain kind of Mormon, I think, who is = essentially immune to inspirational works, and for whom 'interesting' is = the highest praise possible. I'm certainly in that camp. I think the = last time I was ever inspired by anything I read or heard was 1977, when I = read President Kimball's talk "A Gospel Vision of the Arts." Greatest = talk since the King Follett discourse. And it was mostly inspiring = because it was so darn interesting. Anyone else feel the same way? =20 Eric Samuelsen - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Ender's Game_ (Review) Date: 27 Mar 2001 16:43:30 -0500 At 01:28 AM 3/22/2001 -0700, you wrote: Let me emphasize again, if you >haven't read it, do so at once. Order it anonymously online if you have >to. They'll protect your identity, and your shameful secret will be >safe. > >-- >D. Michael Martindale >dmichael@wwno.com Hanging head in desolation. I am a Card fan. I read all the Alvin Maker series, _The Lost Boys_ (for which I wrote a review for the list, but didn't send it when someone else beat me to the punch) and one of my favorite books, of which I have purchased more than a dozen copies which I mailed to my children and to my Stake President etc. is _A Storyteller in Zion_ but, for whatever reason, I just never had a copy of _Ender's Game_ in my hands. This last Christmas, one of my sons gave me a copy of _Ender's Shadow_ which he had finished on the plane coming home for Christmas. I didn't read it instantly because my wife picked up the book first, and we have a rule in our house that no one starts a book while someone else is still reading it, so I waited for her to finish. FINALLY, I read the book. It took a couple of days, then I bought _Ender's Game_ at Goodwill, finished it in about a day, and am now in the middle of _Speaker for the Dead_ but indeed, some of us are a little slow. [MOD: Let me clarify here that multiple reviews of a book are accepted, indeed encouraged! Richard, if you're reading this post and if you still have the review, please feel free to post it.] Richard B. Johnson Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Director, Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important http://www2.gasou.edu/commarts/puppet/ Georgia Southern University Puppet Theatre - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Morris Subject: [AML] Writing Groups Date: 27 Mar 2001 14:53:27 -0800 (PST) All of this talk about writing schedules has raised the following question for me: Do any of you who are writing on a regular basis use a writer's group or some sort of peer response set-up? The reason I ask is that writer's groups proliferate like rabbits here in the Bay Area (a by-product of all the would-be published authors who swarm to the region, no doubt) and all the non-Mormon writers I know here swear by them, wouldn't dare try and publish work without them. Generally they meet weekly or bi-monthly either during the lunch hour or on a weeknight. I know that D. Michael runs a fairly active Web-based peer review group---how do the rest of you get feedback? Is it a 'must'? If so, how much time should you allow in your writing schedules for such activities? I welcome all comments, commentary, anecdotes, complaints and venting. ~~William Morris, who flirted with a couple of local writer's groups but never committed. What a tease. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 27 Mar 2001 05:22:45 -0800 At 01:07 PM 3/21/01 -0700, Kellene Ricks Adams wrote: >For the past four years, I have written after my children go to bed. Some >night I crawl into bed at 4 p.m. [MOD: I assume a.m. is meant here and in >the following sentences.] Some nights I'm in bed by 2 p.m. And other >nights when I can't even prop my eyes up with toothpicks, I'm in bed by >midnight. By probably 80 percent of the time, I'm up until 2 p.m. or later >writing. "Sunrise is nature's way of telling you it's bedtime." [Ronn] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] Fame and Ego Date: 27 Mar 2001 17:44:09 -0700 Eric, Of course you can satarize people's work, when it's a fair comment about the work. You slammed "Soldier of Love" in that column as I recall. That particular song was # 2 on Billboard and went to #1 in Europe. The three songs that followed all landed in the top 5 on Billboard and higher in Europe. His earlier songs did well and were appropriate/comparable to the songs of their time. I'd hardly say Donny's career deserved the tone of the comments you made as I read them to be intended. Perhaps that wasn't your intention at all. We all know how "tone" can be misread in print. In any case, the new CD of Broadway songs is great! (Much better than the ones Barry Manilow did a few years back, and I like Manilow's music, too.) Lu Ann - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] Fame and Ego Date: 27 Mar 2001 17:48:41 -0700 Marilyn, Of course I was referring to YOU! I really enjoyed your presentation at the Spanish Fork Arts Council Writer's Workshop. The board keeps asking me to do another one of those days, but since I'm now the mother of two and the Vice-President of the Utah Council of Teachers of English (and in charge of their fall conference) finding the time to do one and a whole Saturday to commit to it is impossible. Lu Ann - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] Depictions of Jesus Date: 27 Mar 2001 19:15:38 -0700 on 3/27/01 7:05 AM, Alan Rex Mitchell at alan@trilobyte.net wrote: > I know this is and old topic, and I hate to bring it up, but... > The BBC has come of with there own version of what Jesus looked like. > Find it at > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/tv_and_radio/newsid_1243000/1 > 243954.stm > To me, He looks quite Arabic other that the green eyes, which I endorse > because they are the same color as mine. What it really looks like is the face of the filmmaker, author, whose picture appears below the reconstruction picture. :-) Steve (Who also votes for, and with, green eyes.) - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: RE: [AML] Martindale Quote in Deseret Book Catalog Date: 27 Mar 2001 18:19:34 -0800 (PST) My review of Ann Edwards Cannon's "What's a Mother to Do?", which can be found in the AML-List review archive, is quoted on the Signature Book web page that features Cannon's book http://www.signaturebooks.com/reviews/whats.htm ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Ender's Game_ (Review) Date: 27 Mar 2001 19:47:33 -0700 on 3/27/01 2:43 PM, Richard Johnson at djdick@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu wrote: > FINALLY, I read the book. It took a couple of days, then I bought _Ender's > Game_ at Goodwill, finished it in about a day, and am now in the middle of > _Speaker for the Dead_ > but indeed, some of us are a little slow. I had to work to get through _Ender's Game_ for the same reason I don't like video games. I wanted to have all the gaming strategy edited out so I could enjoy the story. Obviously, millions disagreed with me and more power to them! However, I really enjoyed all the sequels, _Xenocide_, _Children of the Mind_, and another I can't remember because my brain just froze and I'll have to reboot. [MOD: Perhaps _Speaker for the Dead_, the first sequel, or _Ender's Shadow_, not technically a sequel at all but with the same set of characters and events, told from a different viewpoint--or _Shadow of the Hegemon_, the sequel to *that* book.] Steve -- Steven Kapp Perry, songwriter and playwright http://www.stevenkappperry.com http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Anticipation High Surrounding Release of Next "Mormon Film": Zion Films Press Release Date: 27 Mar 2001 20:38:36 -0600 Zion Films Press Release 20Mar01 A2 [From Mormon-News] Anticipation High Surrounding Release of Next "Mormon Film" SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- Anticipation is high surrounding the release of the latest "Mormon film" from the director of the independent hit film GOD'S ARMY. Richard Dutcher's latest film, BRIGHAM CITY, will open in select theaters nationwide on April 6. The world premiere will be held in Salt Lake City on April 4. In a departure from promotions for Dutcher's previous film, there are no planned public screenings of BRIGHAM CITY. A handful of select press screenings will take place approximately a week before the film opens. GOD'S ARMY was screened to the public sometimes up to a month before the movie opened in a town. Dutcher has only revealed that BRIGHAM CITY is a whodunit, a murder mystery set in the small (fictional) Mormon town of Brigham. Dutcher has also been quoted as saying that the murder mystery only serves as the skeleton of the plot, and that the meat of the story is in how the deeply religious and sheltered characters in the film deal with the horrific crime. During filming in Mapleton, UT last October, cast and crew members reported that access to the script was extremely limited. Actors were only given those pages of the script that contained their scenes, and most of the crew were not told how the film would end. "I have two theories about who the murderer in the movie is," says Jack North, an actor and longtime resident of Utah who plays a supporting role in BRIGHAM CITY. "I'll just have to see it when it comes out in theaters to know if I'm right." Secrecy surrounding the film has only heightened interest. Thousands of new visitors daily are visiting the movie's official web site (http://www.brighamcitythemovie.com ). Dutcher plays the county sheriff (and Mormon bishop) who discovers and must investigate the murder. Also returning to the screen is MATTHEW A. BROWN, better known for his starring role as Elder Allen in Dutcher's film GOD'S ARMY. Brown plays Dutcher's young deputy. BRIGHAM CITY is as yet unrated by the MPAA. Some close to the film are speculating that the nature of the subject matter may possibly lead to the film being given a controversial PG-13 rating. >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: [AML] Satire (was: Fame and Ego) Date: 27 Mar 2001 22:42:09 -0700 Lu Ann Staheli: >Eric, >Of course you can satarize people's work, when it's a fair comment about the >work. You slammed "Soldier of Love" in that column as I recall. That >particular song was # 2 on Billboard and went to #1 in Europe. The three songs >that followed all landed in the top 5 on Billboard and higher in Europe. What I said was: "Do you remember this song? ["Soldier of Love"] Of course you don't. The song stunk, and his comeback didn't work. But he reappeared a few years later, this time acting out characters from Bible stories, and he was a star again." The "of course you don't" came from counting on most people not remembering the song very well; the fact that it reached #2 doesn't necessarily make it a huge success. Please don't make me, but I could compile a list of songs that peaked at #2 that you would hardly remember. How successful a song was in Europe was not relevant to my audience, as most of them are not in Europe, so a song's popularity there would have no bearing on whether they remember it now. The next album flopped; thus, "his comeback didn't work." My main point was that "Soldier of Love" was terrible. I stand by that opinion, and it has nothing to do with how popular it was or wasn't. >I'd hardly say Donny's career deserved the tone of the comments you made >as I read them to be intended. That's fine. We disagree. The whole "shame on you for making fun of Donny Osmond" thing stems from the fact that you like his stuff and I don't. I don't mind disagreeing; what I mind is being told that because you happen to like something I made fun of means I shouldn't make fun of it. There's no such thing as a target that is off-limits to satire. (We will leave aside, for now, issues that SHOULD be off-limits due to their sacred nature. Those can still be satirized, of course, and with humorous results -- it would just be spiritually unwise to do so.) If someone bases their satire on a premise that their audience finds false -- for example, if I based a column on the premise that the Beatles were a bunch of nobodies who disappeared after one or two hits -- then the satirist will be rewarded by people not laughing at the joke, and he will rethink basing jokes on it. In my case, I counted on much of my audience feeling approximately the same as I did on Donny Osmond. Most of the feedback (though not all) suggests I was generally correct. I also got an angry phone call from someone upset that I'd made fun of former pop-star Tiffany, in the same column. Is someone going to go to bat for her? :-) I'd say most political satire is "unfair" in that it takes one or two incidents, sets them in stone, and uses them as starting points for jokes. (Gerald Ford being a klutz, for example.) But fair or not, we still laugh. Eric D. Snider -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] B.J. ROWLEY, _My Body Fell Off!_ (Review) Date: 27 Mar 2001 22:53:08 -0700 Jeff Needle wrote: > Thanks for this review. I reviewed the book some time ago and found the > astral projection part to be most objectionable. One can hardly expect > young people to distinguish between one form of occultism and another. > > I'm really not an old fuddie-duddie, but I think we need to be careful how > we let ideas clearly not within the bounds of the Gospel be introduced as > somehow acceptable. That idea could be made to fit. For instance, when Nephi was caught up on the top of a mountain, was that literal, or was it more like an astral projection? As a writer of LDSF, I take the position that any science fiction or fantasy idea could be made to work within Mormon doctrine. Mental telepathy -- Doesn't God read minds? Aren't there scriptural evidences of men knowing the minds of others? Dimensional hopping - what was Moroni's visit but a being from another Universe appearing in a dimensional warp to our world? Time travel - God sees the past, present, and future, as one eternal round. Maybe that's how prophets predict -- they time travel in the spirit. Magic swords - the Sword of Laban Crystal balls - the Jaredite stones Talking animals - Baalam's ass. The serpent in the Garden of Eden Matter transmogrification - Moses turning a staff into a snake. Mrs. Lott turning into salt. Fantastic voyages - To the new world in the barges Apocalyptic stories - The Book of Revelation Futuristic computers - The Urim and Thummim Teleportation - Being caught up to the Third Heaven Thom - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Alan Rex MITCHELL, _Angel of the Danube_ (Review) Date: 27 Mar 2001 23:41:46 -0700 Alan Rex Mitchell wrote: > And stay away from my daughter. [for the second time] Hmmm, methinks thou dost protest too much. That must be some daughter. What's her phone number? -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Inspirational vs. Interesting Date: 28 Mar 2001 00:16:46 -0700 "Eric R. Samuelsen" wrote: > And it was mostly inspiring because it was so darn interesting. I think a lot more goes into being inspiring than just interesting. On the other hand, I can't recall ever being inspired by something that was boring. Interesting may not be sufficient, but it's necessary, for inspiration. Given that philosophy, I guess I'd say "inspirational" is better praise than "interesting," because I believe "inspirational" incorporates "interesting," plus a whole lot more. On the other other hand, I doubt many LDS members mean what I mean when they say "inspirational." I've found myself saying "boring" to some things others call "inspirational." So I'll just take whatever praise I can get without weighing it in the balance. If something I did provided a positive experience for someone, I've accomplished something worthwhile, even if I can't relate to the particular form their positive experience manifested itself. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Groups Date: 28 Mar 2001 00:38:10 -0700 William Morris wrote: > Do any of you who are writing on a regular basis use a > writer's group or some sort of peer response set-up? > all the non-Mormon writers I > know here swear by them, wouldn't dare try and publish > work without them. > I know that D. Michael runs a fairly active Web-based > peer review group---how do the rest of you get > feedback? Is it a 'must'? If so, how much time > should you allow in your writing schedules for such > activities? If you've noticed my writers group, you probably have also noticed that I, too, swear by writers groups. (I have been known to utter things like "Holy WorLDSmiths, that hurt!" when hammering my thumb or something.) After having seen the difference between my pre- and post-critiqued writing, I wouldn't be caught dead letting the public see an un-critiqued piece of work. (Except for venues like AML-List, where I'm constantly letting all my warts hang out in full view.) The point is, your work _will_ be critiqued and you _will_ receive feedback on all your mistakes--one way or another. You can either do it in the relative privacy of a writers group, or wait until critics and readers start lambasting your published work (assuming agents and editors don't beat them to the punch by rejecting it). How much time to invest in a writers group I suppose is a personal choice. I think it's important enough that a weekly meeting or schedule of some kind is not too much. How can you possibly get your work critiqued in a timely manner if your group isn't cycling through the material often enough? Any writer who says it cuts into his writing time too much doesn't get it. What's the point of churning out volumes and volumes of unreviewed dreck? It makes about as much sense as saying, "But, editor, I don't have time to do the rewrites. It'll cut into my writing time." There are alternate ways to get feedback on your work besides writers groups, and not all writers groups offer valid feedback. But a good writers group populated by knowledgeable readers can be invaluable, providing not only valid feedback, but a spectrum of valid feedback from different points of view, helping you to distinguish between real problems and personal tastes; helping you discover a wider range of problems than one person would catch; helping you keep your facts straight from the many backgrounds a variety of people will bring to the group. You can't get all that with one reader, be that a spouse, agent, or editor. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Debra L. Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] GIRZONE, _Joshua_ Series (was: Depictions of Christ) Date: 28 Mar 2001 09:03:15 -0500 I remember reading the first three or four in the series and I believe I even have the first on on my shelf, and I liked the first two, but the third left me cold. I guess my mormon mindset couldn't accept the idea of Jesus sitting arond with a crowd of people drinking a beer. That and the writing was improving at all. You can forgive bad writing in a first book (for example, TW&TG) but by a third book there should be a show of improvement. Debbie Brown > Joshua > Joshua and the Children > Joshua and the City > Joshua in the Holy Land - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rachel Ann Nunes" Subject: Re: [AML] B.J. ROWLEY, _My Body Fell Off!_ Date: 28 Mar 2001 09:21:46 -0800 I beg to disagree. Yes, _My Body Fell Off_ is a YA book, but I don't believe is contains any occultism. In fact, I don't normally enjoy YA fiction, but I do enjoy the adventure and the speculative nature of Brent's novels. I didn't see anything in the books that contradicted Mormon Doctrine (with an minor exception in the third novel about "private and public thoughts" that didn't make a huge difference, but rather opened a door for me to discuss my beliefs with my son). Brent's books are certainly much better than most of the series the children are so caught up in these days. And it is fiction, after all. _My Body Fell Off_ is an adventure for kids, and as a lifetime lover of science fiction and fantasy, I simply can't see any problems with it. I have read of this type of "astral projection" in many forms in many books over the years, and I don't think it's more dangerous than reading about changing into an animal or a child fighting a war through a video game. I did hear that a GA read the book and also didn't find anything objectionable, but I guess you can't please all of the people all of the time. Regardless, I plan to buy every book of Brent's that comes out. My son and his friends devoured the series in a matter of two or three days and can't wait for Brent's new book _Sting_ to be released. As a mother of a children who read avidly, I appreciate Brent and his writing. So for those of you who have not read or let your children read the series, I think you might want to take a look at doing so. Just my two cents. And now a note for Brent who is on this list. Tell us about your new novel, _Sting_. When is it going to be out? Can you give us an overview? Hurry, the boys are waiting! Rachel _______________________ Rachel Ann Nunes (noon-esh) Best-selling author of the Ariana series and A Greater Love Web page: http://www.rachelannnunes.com E-mail: rachel@rachelannnunes.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 8:52 AM > Thanks for this review. I reviewed the book some time ago and found the > astral projection part to be most objectionable. One can hardly expect > young people to distinguish between one form of occultism and another. > > I'm really not an old fuddie-duddie, but I think we need to be careful how > we let ideas clearly not within the bounds of the Gospel be introduced as > somehow acceptable. > > > > - > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm > - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Fame and Ego Date: 28 Mar 2001 10:05:04 -0700 Wow, LuAnn. Now AML knows who to recruit as a conference chair down the road--after all that experience! Good luck, LuAnn! Marilyn > Marilyn, > Of course I was referring to YOU! I really enjoyed your presentation at the > Spanish Fork Arts Council Writer's Workshop. The board keeps asking me to do > another one of those days, but since I'm now the mother of two and the > Vice-President of the Utah Council of Teachers of English (and in charge of > their fall conference) finding the time to do one and a whole Saturday to commit > to it is impossible. > Lu Ann - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Debra L. Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Goat Cheese (was: YA or Not?) Date: 28 Mar 2001 12:32:33 -0500 You're right, there must be a literary tie, but I can be darned if I can come up with it. I'm still trying to decide if I had an okay experience. And no, I didn't eat goat cheese. Had a hard enough time with the mooing meat on my plate. Debbie Brown ----- Original Message ----- > Oh, please take me with you. I love goat cheese. There is one particularly > luscious kind that starts with a 'g' that I can't remember how to spell. > The description was 'caramelized goat cheese'. > > Hmmmm-there must be a literary tie in here some where. How about a some > Mormon version of Pamplemousse that you write while you are there. > > Tracie > - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 28 Mar 2001 10:38:16 -0700 For me, I have only two prerequisites when I write. First of all, I have = to have access to music. Second, I can't write for more than a couple of = hours. Because I teach all day, I do my best work in those half hour or = hour chunks of time in the middle of the day between appointments. Or in = the basement after the kids are in bed. I can't write according to any = kind of schedule at all, though. I just grab some minutes whenever. But = if I know that 8-11 is my writing time, I'll spend that time surfing the = 'net or whatever. I detest scheduling anyway, and completely loathe = living my life by a clock, though of course to some extent I have to. =20 Eric Samuelsen - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 28 Mar 2001 10:27:50 -0700 Just got my Irreantum in the mail. Marvelous job, you guys, overall. But I have one nit-picky question: What is the rational behind referring to Julie Jensen as "non-practicing" and Steve Atkin as "a non-pracaticing Mormon?" It seems to me you're opening up a can of worms with phrases like that. For one thing, it begs for clarification on the loyatlty status of other people about whom you mention nothing. Should their loyalty to the Church affect in any way how we choose to view their works? And it's also the inconsistency that bothered me. You referred to Tim Slover as "LDS playwright" but Marion Smith gets no label at all. I would suggest a policy of using labels that refer only to a person's profession or avocation (such as "Film Maker Richard Dutcher") and remove all references to even their church membership. At the very list, if you want to refer to a person's religious standing, do so if they are acative and believing, but dont mention their LDS status if they are inactive. I say this is a former Stake Missionary, often tasked with trying to re-activate disaffected members. One of the biggest problems we had was getting members who regularly attended to not think of those who didn't attend as degnerate sinners (Why else would they not attend, unless they had unrepentant sins?) and trying to help those who didn't attend regularly to not feel like a church statistic instead of a person. -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals -------------------------- Shameless Plug Don't miss the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC! *J. Golden* - a one-man play by James Arrington, starring Marvin Payne *SFX5* - 5 original short science fiction plays *Peculiarities* - a new full-length play by Eric Samuelsen For more information about the Playwrights Circle and our summer festival: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] B.J. ROWLEY, _My Body Fell Off!_ (Review) Date: 28 Mar 2001 09:34:38 +0000 I suppose you have a point (and I offer this reluctantly). I just wonder how far we want to take this. Whether this will provide implicit endorsement of some very dangerous practices. >Jeff Needle wrote: > > > Thanks for this review. I reviewed the book some time ago and found the > > astral projection part to be most objectionable. One can hardly expect > > young people to distinguish between one form of occultism and another. > > > > I'm really not an old fuddie-duddie, but I think we need to be careful how > > we let ideas clearly not within the bounds of the Gospel be introduced as > > somehow acceptable. > >That idea could be made to fit. For instance, when Nephi was caught up on the >top of a mountain, was that literal, or was it more like an astral projection? > >As a writer of LDSF, I take the position that any science fiction or fantasy >idea could be made to work within Mormon doctrine. [snip] >Thom - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Debra L. Brown" Subject: [AML] Popular Music (was: Goodness Knows) Date: 28 Mar 2001 12:44:23 -0500 > The "of course you don't" came from counting on most people not > remembering the song very well; the fact that it reached #2 doesn't > necessarily make it a huge success. Please don't make me, but I could > compile a list of songs that peaked at #2 that you would hardly > remember. Oh please oh please oh please, pretty please! Compile a list. > How successful a song was in Europe was not relevant to my audience, > as most of them are not in Europe, so a song's popularity there would > have no bearing on whether they remember it now. I just came back from France where I was really hoping to hear some French music, of all types, and what did I hear? Nothing but American music. I was deeply diappointed. My still missionary daughter was fairly knowledgable of the newer music because music over there is piped in the stores, the train stations, the buses, and so on. Every hotel room had MTV which didn't thrill me, but oh well. And to tie this in.............Donny Osmond, a Mormon, who writes music, was not on MTV once. Debbie Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] B.J. ROWLEY, _My Body Fell Off!_ (Review) Date: 28 Mar 2001 11:25:14 -0700 Jeff Needle said: > Thanks for this review. I reviewed the book some time ago and found the > astral projection part to be most objectionable. One can hardly expect > young people to distinguish between one form of occultism and another. Young people of the age group at which this book is aimed are quite capable of distinguishing fantasy from reality. Jeff again: > I'm really not an old fuddie-duddie, but I think we need to be > careful how > we let ideas clearly not within the bounds of the Gospel be introduced as > somehow acceptable. I have to be careful here because I haven't read the book you're objecting to, but there's a ton of LDS-oriented literature, some of it nonfiction, that has people floating around outside their bodies. The very scriptures make reference to out of body experiences (2 Cor. 12:1, 3 Ne. 28:15, D&C 137:1, just to name a few). A concept like that isn't evil just because some group or other seizes on it and makes it part of their practices, and I feel we go too far when we exclude it from our discourse, especially our fantasy, just because someone else has misused it. -- Scott Tarbet - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Huls Subject: [AML] RE: Writing Groups Date: 28 Mar 2001 12:28:17 -0600 William Morris wrote in part asking about writing groups: > I welcome all comments, commentary, anecdotes, > complaints and venting. > ~~William Morris, who flirted with a couple of local > writer's groups but never committed. What a tease. Craig Huls Responds: William, I will give you my experience, limited though it may be... I attending three writing clubs in the DFW area and attended several Saturday all day session around Texas, Austin, Houston, and Dallas. Most of the Saturday sessions were dealing with publishing and the business end of the writing game, but the writing clubs were interesting and I thought would be most helpful. I lurked in all three for a meeting or two and then dropped out due to time issues. I spend most of my spare time in the evenings on church assignments. I have not found any groups meeting that do not conflict with my schedule. That of course is a personal issue. I have found my best critiques have come not from writers but from readers. Since that in the end is who I want to please, I have turned to them. Not family, by the way. I find family to be less helpful in what they have to say. They generally are prejudiced in the writers favor before they begin. I am looking for constructive criticism from a reader, what grabbed them, what turned them off. Professional eviewers are often less objective than are the generally reading public, in my opinion. I learned a long time ago that if a reviewer knocked a book that I had an interest in, it frequently meant I would enjoy it. :-) I have passed my material out to people who spend their time reading while on the bicycle or in the hot tub or sauna at the Health Club. Results have been positive. One school nurse I met that way, gave me positive feeback and suggestions that encouraged me to continue and finish the one I am about to publish now. She called and asked permission to pass it around to the faculty of the Jr.High she worked at and I never did get got that copy back! Which was fine with me. I did get some good feedback from two of the educators who read it that I found most helpful in the re-write. I have not found it easy to find other writers who have the time or interest for feedback but it is much easier to do via internet now. I have sample chapters and even full novels on the Web. When I have found someone I thought might be willing to offer criticism of a constructive nature. I have referred them to a .pdf file at one of my sites. When this is making me a living instead of being an expensive hobby, then maybe I will have the time to get to "group therapy" as they say. I have found AML to be interesting as I have lurked, especially helpful to me have been the various reviews of other authors work. Craig Huls Huls & Associates email:dcraigh@onramp.net webpage:http://rampages.onramp.net/~dcraigh - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] Tony MARKHAM, _The Jaxon Files_ (Review) Date: 28 Mar 2001 13:52:10 -0500 Terry L Jeffress wrote: > My disappointment comes primarily from a desire for additional > material. I could have enjoyed a novel of twice the length. This > desire has both selfish and literary components. I like Tony's > writing and would have enjoyed reading more, but also the chapters > could have used more connective tissue. Each chapter reads well on > its own, but the overall story feels abrupt. By the time you reach > the climax, you have seen only a few formative components of Jackson's > personality. With some more material, Tony could have fleshed out > Jackson's character and made his emotional state at the climax much > more unstable, making the ending more of an all or nothing struggle > for survival on both the physical and psychological levels. Also with > some additional material, Tony could have more fully addressed some of > the themes he invokes: reality vs. illusion, fate vs. free will, and > good vs. evil. I've always regretted losing the opportunity of having Terry as an editor. Now more than ever. I thank him for his insight and encouragement and taking the time to review my little opus. I've always thought of Jaxon Files as a libation to the gods of writing, the first draught poured on the ground, not as a waste, but as an offering. I don't know how common the first-book-that-goes-nowhere syndrome is, but I suspect most authors catch it. I'm encouraged by stories like that of Steven Crane whose remaindered copies of Maggie, A Girl of the Streets were stacked up in his apartment and burned for heat. But later, people read it. Tony Markham - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cgileadi@emerytelcom.net Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Ender's Game_ (Review) Date: 28 Mar 2001 19:02:10 GMT I read _Speaker for the Dead_ first on the recommendation of Ernest Strack, the now-deceased polygamist who ran a bookstore in Provo many, many years ago :). Thereafter I have read just about everything by OSC, except _Stone Tables_. I neverminded the throatcutting, gory stuff--even the high voltage sexuality in _Wyrms_--it all worked well for me. . . .EXCEPT _Lost Boys_, which I thought was dishonest (after all, it was almost literal biography except for the tacked- on somewhat-tacky horror stuff), and _Woman of Destiny_ (later retitled, can't think of the title), which bugged me because of its rendering of Joseph's polygamy. (Personal issues here :) ). Once I enjoyed a great evening with LauraMaery Gold Post, who was in Utah doing a book signing. We went over to another signing by OSC, and for some perverse reason I launched into my reasons for why I hated those two books (even though I am one of the biggest OSC groupies in the world). LauraMaery had to gently tug me away, especially when Card said, "Oh? Those are really my two favorites." :) Cathy Gileadi Wilson This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kellene Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 28 Mar 2001 12:45:31 -0700 I love this! I printed it and posted it by my computer. Thanks! (And yes, I did mean a.m. on all references. I must have written this post in those early, pre-dawn morning with the toothpicks slipping. . . .) Kellene > At 01:07 PM 3/21/01 -0700, Kellene Ricks Adams wrote: >> For the past four years, I have written after my children go to bed. Some >> night I crawl into bed at 4 p.m. [MOD: I assume a.m. is meant here and in >> the following sentences.] Some nights I'm in bed by 2 p.m. And other >> nights when I can't even prop my eyes up with toothpicks, I'm in bed by >> midnight. By probably 80 percent of the time, I'm up until 2 p.m. or later >> writing. > > > "Sunrise is nature's way of telling you it's bedtime." > > [Ronn] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Satire (was: Fame and Ego) Date: 28 Mar 2001 16:41:04 -0700 On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:42:09 -0700, Eric D. Snider wrote: >That's fine. We disagree. The whole "shame on you for making fun of=20 >Donny Osmond" thing stems from the fact that you like his stuff and I=20 >don't. I don't mind disagreeing; what I mind is being told that=20 >because you happen to like something I made fun of means I shouldn't=20 >make fun of it. > >There's no such thing as a target that is off-limits to satire. (We=20 >will leave aside, for now, issues that SHOULD be off-limits due to=20 >their sacred nature. Those can still be satirized, of course, and=20 >with humorous results -- it would just be spiritually unwise to do=20 >so.) If someone bases their satire on a premise that their audience=20 >finds false -- for example, if I based a column on the premise that=20 >the Beatles were a bunch of nobodies who disappeared after one or two=20 >hits -- then the satirist will be rewarded by people not laughing at=20 >the joke, and he will rethink basing jokes on it. In my case, I=20 >counted on much of my audience feeling approximately the same as I=20 >did on Donny Osmond. Most of the feedback (though not all) suggests I=20 >was generally correct. > >I also got an angry phone call from someone upset that I'd made fun=20 >of former pop-star Tiffany, in the same column. Is someone going to=20 >go to bat for her? :-) I'll reveal my deeply hidden shame because it is relevant to the = discussion and supports Eric's point here--I am a huge Tiffany fan. I know all the arguments about why I shouldn't like her music, but I do. I own both her albums (er, cassettes?) and still listen to them occasionally, much to Melissa's dismay. So I find myself in the position where I disagree with Eric's opinion on Tiffany, while I agree with him on Donny. I thought = that the column in question was generally funny. I can see that my opinion on Tiffany is not the majority one, so I just laughed along because even = though I don't share the opinion, I recognize it and generally why that opinion = is held and the humor still works. Humor is exceptionally subjective and some of that subjectivity is based = on the underlying assumptions and opinions of the humorist. If you learn to hold your own opinions somewhat in abeyance and roll with the assumptions (by at least being familiar with them) it is possible to laugh with the humor even when you disagree with the underlying premise. Good thing, = too, because I'd be pretty much without humor if I had to agree with all the comedians I listen to (or read). This works for opinions that you don't hold very sacred (like my = enjoyment of Tiffany). Some things are too closely bound to your personality to = find humor in their exploitation, though--which is why I find Dennis Miller so tired and shop-worn, but still enjoy Billy Crystal. Jacob Proffitt - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Allred Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Ender's Game_ (Review) Date: 28 Mar 2001 19:24:30 -0700 Speaking of Orson Scott Card, I notice that he will be doing an evening book signing at The Read Leaf Bookshop in Springville, Utah on Friday, March 30. (The Read Leaf Bookshop ran the terrific book tables at last fall's Mormon Writers conference.) Details can be found at the store's website: http://www.readleafbooks.com/NASApp/store/IndexJsp I mention this partly because I'd heard a rumour (apparently false) at the BYU sf symposium this month that Card had given up doing booksignings. --Lee [MOD: My understanding is that what Card has given up is multicity book signing tours, not individual book signings.] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Edward Hogan Subject: RE: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Ender's Game_ (Review) Date: 29 Mar 2001 12:06:53 -0500 Woman of Destiny was, I believe, retitled _Saints_. It's one of my favorites too. I liked his handling of Joseph Smith's polygamy. It made me feel about as good about polygamy, Joseph Smith, and the Church as I think I'm ever going to. Ned - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike South Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 29 Mar 2001 10:50:01 -0700 I've been working on a personal project since the beginning of this year, and I've settled into a routine that works like this: LUNCHTIME: sneak away from work (this often requires eating lunch in the car) and head to the library for an hour to work out ideas for the next part of the project. Put the notes away and let 'em jell for a couple of weeks. END OF WORK: head home and do all the home stuff (dinner, cleaning, laundry, play with the kids, read to them, then get them into bed, etc.) Spend the next hour or so getting re-acquainted with my wife (foot rubs are and especially important skill to develop). AROUND 10 - ABOUT MIDNIGHT: pull out the notes that are already a couple of weeks old, decide what works and what doesn't, then start writing and drawing. Important detail: keep Simpson's, Frasier, and M*A*S*H running in the background (I've seen them all often enough that I don't have to pay attention, but I like the noise and the jokes.) FRIDAY: forget the project for a night and go do something fun with the family and/or the loving and exceptionally patient spouse. This schedule has worked pretty well so far, though I do occasionally miss a day. We're going to have a new baby in a few weeks, so I'm pretty sure I'll need to throw the whole thing out the window (the schedule, not the baby) and start over. --Mike South - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jana bouck remy" Subject: Re: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 29 Mar 2001 10:51:26 -0800 > > What is the rational behind referring to Julie Jensen as > "non-practicing" and Steve Atkin as "a non-pracaticing Mormon?" > I found the use of this phrase called undue attention to itself. I wondered what exactly it meant--"nonpracticing Mormon"? I understand that it is important to establish the Mormon-ness of the artist to justify their being in Irreantum. But could we find a different way to do it? I'd love to hear the ideas of other Listers on this topic... Jana Remy "Well-behaved women rarely make history" --Laurel Thatcher Ulrich - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Diann T Read Subject: [AML] Re: [AML-Mag] Fictionalizing Reality Date: 29 Mar 2001 12:54:57 -0600 Rose (and all), On Sun, 25 Mar 2001 18:24:56 -0600 "Rose Green" writes: > Here's a question for those of you who have done a lot more writing > than I have: How does one deal with the seemingly contrasting ideas of > writing from what you know, and the statement "the characters are fictional > and any similarity to real persons, either living or dead, is coincidental"? To some extent, I suppose this depends on whether you're writing fiction or works along the line of histories or biographies, where you're dependent on facts. I'm going to assume for the sake of this response that you're writing fiction. As a fiction-writer myself, I can tell you that some of the characters in my books are composites of people I've known and/or their traits or mannerisms. I'm sort of a "people watcher," and sometimes I even take notes on intriguing or amusing things I've observed. Human beings are so multifaceted that no matter how unique and individual you may try to make your characters, there's bound to be some similarity to someone out there. Because of that, I've never considered that statement to be much of a problem. > What about that student awhile back who wanted > to write the sad story of her ex-Mormon bishop father? Wouldn't she > have run the risk of a libel suit if people felt offended enough? How > have you handled this? This is an entirely different matter, and I'm afraid I don't have anything to offer on this. I'll be interested to see what others may have to say about it. Diann T. Read - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] Satire (was: Fame and Ego) Date: 29 Mar 2001 12:44:14 -0700 (MST) > I'll reveal my deeply hidden shame because it is relevant to the = > discussion and supports Eric's point here--I am a huge Tiffany fan. > I know all the arguments about why I shouldn't like her music, but I > do. I own both her albums (er, cassettes?) and still listen to them > occasionally, much to Melissa's dismay. > > Jacob Proffitt You can't be that big a fan - she actually has four albums out, not two!!! ;) --Ivan Wolfe, who is not a fan of Tiffany, but whose wife is. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Ender's Game_ (Review) Date: 29 Mar 2001 13:11:08 -0700 "Woman of Destiny" became "Saints." It was always "Saints," but the publisher didn't think that would sell so he put a sexy woman on the front in a cape. It sold anyway. Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cathy Wilson" Subject: [AML] Exultate Concert Friday BYU Date: 29 Mar 2001 12:27:28 -0700 If any of you are going to be in Provo this weekend, there will be a concert at the BYU Museum of Art presented by the new Utah choral group, Exultate, directed by Russell Wilson. AML choir members include myself and Eric Samuelsen. This initial appearance of the choir will include orchestra for Rutter's "Requiem." It begins at 7:30 PM Friday night. Tickets are available at the door Cathy (Gileadi) Wilson Editing Etc. 1400 West 2060 North Helper UT 84526 - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benson Parkinson" Subject: Re: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 29 Mar 2001 13:12:06 -0700 Thought I'd put in my two cents as a former Irreantum editor. We started = doing this because the question on everyone's mind when they read about = Mormon artists is how their faith relates to their artistic production. = That question's pretty central to what we conceived Irreantum was all = about. Every article I've ever read about Julie Jensen either says she's = inactive or that she's left the Church. (I don't know about Steve Atkin.) = I think the practice is legitimate, at least when artists have stated = their opinion about the Church publically or it's generally known, and I = hope the current editors will keep doing it.=20 Ben Parkinson >>> ThomDuncan@prodigy.net 03/28/01 10:27AM >>> But I have one nit-picky question: What is the rational behind referring to Julie Jensen as "non-practicing" and Steve Atkin as "a non-pracaticing Mormon?"=20 - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: RE: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 29 Mar 2001 15:00:02 -0700 Thom, I'll take this to the Irreantum editorial staff and we'll discuss = it. I see your points but also think there's some value in reporting what = the subjects have made public about their church status (of course, it = takes careful verification to ascertain exactly WHAT they have made public = and what is due to gossip and/or reading between the lines). In the meantime, do you want to submit a letter to the editor about this = for publication in the next issue? Maybe even just this post? If so, sent = it to irreantum2@cs.com. Chris Bigelow - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: Re: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 29 Mar 2001 16:12:38 -0700 Gotta go along with Thom on this. We have all sorts of degrees of orthodoxy and heterodoxy in the Church--and particularly in the artistic community. I, for example, am a fan of Diet Coke. I publish in _Sunstone_ and _Dialogue_ (which my Bishop no longer discusses with me during temple recommend interviews; he simply says, "Oh, and I know about _Dialogue_ and _Sunstone_, so you don't need to go there"). Years ago, Terry Tempest Williams didn't want to appear on an AML panel because she's not "orthodox." Martha Nibley was also identified in a recent AML publication or post as "non-practising" (and in fact, she has had her name removed from the records, so it goes beyond non-practising), but her Mormon upbringing clearly affects her writing, and she speaks at lengh about Mormonism in at least one of her books. The AML has given awards to all sorts of Mormons--coffee drinkers, self-described apostates, and bishops. I don't really think we need to know where everyone rates on the orthodoxy scale to appreciate what they add to the community. [Margaret Young] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: Re: [AML] B.J. ROWLEY, _My Body Fell Off!_ (Review) Date: 29 Mar 2001 16:13:42 -0700 I just love it when Jeff claims not to be an old fuddie duddie. And part of it is true. Jeff is not old. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Ender's Game_ (Review) Date: 29 Mar 2001 16:15:20 -0700 I'm wondering how WOMEN felt about _Saints_ (which once had a Harlequin Romance-type cover). I know some who were deeply offended by the obvious use of Eliza R. Snow's history. Edward Hogan wrote: > Woman of Destiny was, I believe, retitled _Saints_. It's one of my > favorites too. I liked his handling of Joseph Smith's polygamy. It made me > feel about as good about polygamy, Joseph Smith, and the Church as I think > I'm ever going to. > > Ned - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 29 Mar 2001 16:25:10 -0700 Benson Parkinson wrote: > > Thought I'd put in my two cents as a former Irreantum editor. We started doing this because the question on everyone's mind when they read about Mormon artists is how their faith relates to their artistic production. That question's pretty central to what we conceived Irreantum was all about. Every article I've ever read about Julie Jensen either says she's inactive or that she's left the Church. (I don't know about Steve Atkin.) I think the practice is legitimate, at least when artists have stated their opinion about the Church publically or it's generally known, and I hope the current editors will keep doing it. FWIW, I find the practice offensive. Another reason: Though I attend Church regularly, and have a current Temple Recommend, I share many of the feelings and beliefs of some people who have left the Church, or have become inactive. My reasons for remaining within the fold despite my doubts (and, in some case, disbeliefs) are my own, and I've recounted them ad nauseum on other forums where such things are more appropriate than on this forum. I resent the implication in calling a writer of similar beliefs to my own an inactive because it invalidates, in one fell swoop, my own status in the Church. I'm sensitive to the way many active Church members interpret the term inactive, as someone less faithful, or morally deficient in some way. More than one person, knowing of my personal beliefs, has expressed amazement that I am still active. I would hope a reader would judge my writing on its own merit. But I'm aware that, having a negative opinion of my Church loyalty, a more orthodox member is likely to judge my writing through the lens of their own judgment. Therefore, I consider it an unfair disadvantage to a writer to advertise their loyalty to the Church, especially if that status is irrelevant to the subject matter they are writing about. -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals -------------------------- Shameless Plug Don't miss the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC! *J. Golden* - a one-man play by James Arrington, starring Marvin Payne *SFX5* - 5 original short science fiction plays *Peculiarities* - a new full-length play by Eric Samuelsen For more information about the Playwrights Circle and our summer festival: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rose Green" Subject: Re: [AML] Re: [AML-Mag] Fictionalizing Reality Date: 29 Mar 2001 18:04:01 -0600 Diann, Thanks for your comments. >As a fiction-writer myself, I can tell you >that some of the characters in my books are composites of people I've >known and/or their traits or mannerisms. I'm sort of a "people watcher," >and sometimes I even take notes on intriguing or amusing things I've >observed. Yes, this is sort of the thing I'm thinking of, when you observe people doing something funny (or being a funny character) that you'd like to include in your fiction, but it isn't always complimentary. For example, when my husband and I had been married a couple weeks and were in the Amsterdam airport waiting for a connecting flight to Germany, we met this woman. She was maybe in her 40s but trying to look younger (you know, too much heavy makeup and "youthful" clothing styles) and everything about her screamed, "I'm an American!" She saw us and gushed over and struck up a conversation, all about how she had come to Amsterdam "to meet the love of her life" (but was quick to add that her husband had died and she was there with the approval of her adult children, so we didn't get any wrong ideas about her.) Such a great minor character, but not exactly a flattering description. I take it that's the kind of people-watching you do that is okay to include? Actually, maybe there is quite a lot of room to fictionalize reality out there; I think Card's so obvious retellings of Joseph Smith have the "this is fiction, with no relation to reality" statement on the back of the title page. Rose Green _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marianne Hales Harding" Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Ender's Game_ (Review) Date: 29 Mar 2001 17:12:43 -0700 I enjoyed _Saints_. I'm not a big Card fan (I haven't read much Card so I'm not saying I *don't* like him) but a non-member acquaintance gave it to me as airplane reading. He still doesn't believe me that Dinah whatever-her-name-is isn't a real person. ("But the introduction says...") Marianne Hales Harding - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Groups Date: 29 Mar 2001 19:53:39 -0700 D. Michael Martindale wrote: >William Morris wrote: > > > Do any of you who are writing on a regular basis use a > > writer's group or some sort of peer response set-up? > > > all the non-Mormon writers I > > know here swear by them, wouldn't dare try and publish > > work without them. > > > I know that D. Michael runs a fairly active Web-based > > peer review group---how do the rest of you get > > feedback? Is it a 'must'? If so, how much time > > should you allow in your writing schedules for such > > activities? > >If you've noticed my writers group, you probably have also noticed that >I, too, swear by writers groups. (I have been known to utter things like >"Holy WorLDSmiths, that hurt!" when hammering my thumb or something.) >After having seen the difference between my pre- and post-critiqued >writing, I wouldn't be caught dead letting the public see an >un-critiqued piece of work. I agree. Mostly. I guess. Sort of. Sometimes. Maybe not. Actually, it really depends on the group. The wrong group at the wrong time can be a truly unpleasant experience that can do some pretty unfortunate things to the unwary writer. I've been a member of about fifteen different writing groups over the years, some of them good, some of them bad, and some of them indifferent. Some have gone from bad to good as they changed over time, and as I changed over time. Some (possibly conflicting) thoughts about writing groups... * Sometimes writers are not very good critiquers (though sometimes they are). The skill set is quite different between writing and commenting, and many a good writer will is completely unable to articulate either a problem or a solution. * Writers often end up trying to recast your story in their own image. They'll make suggestions that will tend to reveal the story they would have told--BUT THAT MAY NOT BE *YOUR* STORY. You need to be able to tell the difference, and be strong enough to stick to your guns if the commenter's suggestions don't help clarify your own story. * Use a wide variety of readers. Different viewpoints and sets of experience can reveal different weaknesses (and strengths) in your manuscript. If you can assemble a group of writers and readers from different genres, you can often learn a lot more about the dynamics of writing as a general form--or at least more so than in a group composed of people with essentially similar tastes and talents. * Keep a set of individual readers outside of your writing group. The group dynamic can often lead down a path that leaves an entire area of concern untouched, while overworking another area. A single, uncontaminated reader can often be more effective than a group feeding on itself. * Keep a second set of readers to look at your rewrites. Whether that's a second critique group or just a set of individual readers is largely irrelevant. It's hard to read a story for the second time and offer strong comments untainted by your first experience. * Work with a group that prepares at least some of their comments in advance. While the interaction of people in a group is often great for brainstorming and problem-solving, pre-prepared comments have a better chance of covering the whole story. First reactions are good. But so are well-aged reactions. * Get a writing group that can teach you something. Ideally, you should be the weakest writer in the group so that you're constantly learning from your betters. Unfortunely, the better writers are trying to do the same thing, so it may be hard to attach to a really good critique group. * Make sure you read other people's work and comment on it. As you learn to view stories critically, you also learn to criticize your own work, and your first drafts will improve for the knowledge. * If a group is not meeting your needs--in other words, if you don't feel like the group is helping your fiction improve--walk away and look for a new group. Staying with a group that isn't helping you improve is a waste of your time, and can become actively damaging. In this case, be selfish. ===== Like Michael, I rarely show my stuff to an editor without having a fair number of readers look at it and comment on it. I don't claim to be a good writer, but I think I'm a pretty good rewriter. For me a writing group is invaluable. But not everyone benefits from a group. Some prefer single readers, some find a bad group where ego is more important than improvement, and some just work better on their own. A group can provide a lot of input, not all of which is valid or useful. You need to know how to manage the input to keep the good stuff while letting the rest slide right on by. Finding a good group is disappointingly hard. I would look for a group that contains several publishing authors. If you know a local author (whose work you respect), consider asking that person about good groups to join. Online groups are surprisingly hit-or-miss, though I've heard good things about WorLDSmiths. And if you can't find a good group, look for good individuals. I think having real readers comment on your work is an absolute necessity--or at least it is for me at this point in my apprenticeship. In the end, though, the most important thing you can do is write and learn to write better--be it through books, conferences, writing groups, or just plain practice. Scott Parkin - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 29 Mar 2001 21:18:43 -0700 On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:27:50 -0700, Thom Duncan wrote: >I would suggest a policy of using labels that refer only to a person's >profession or avocation (such as "Film Maker Richard Dutcher") and >remove all references to even their church membership. At the very list, >if you want to refer to a person's religious standing, do so if they are >acative and believing, but dont mention their LDS status if they are >inactive. I, for one, am grateful for the information on a person's relationship to the church. Particularly when they claim LDS ties. I want to know if a person left the church or not. That information plays a role in my perception of the artist. It isn't something I need, mind you. I am perfectly capable of judging the merit of a work without knowing anything about an author. But since the point of Irreantum biographies and interviews is to get to know the author, the question of their relation = to the church is important. Jacob Proffitt - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: [AML] Re: Tiffany (was: Satire) Date: 29 Mar 2001 21:20:05 -0700 On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:44:14 -0700 (MST), Ivan Angus Wolfe wrote: >> I'll reveal my deeply hidden shame because it is relevant to the =3D >> discussion and supports Eric's point here--I am a huge Tiffany fan. >= I know all the arguments about why I shouldn't like her music, but I > = do. I own both her albums (er, cassettes?) and still listen to them > = occasionally, much to Melissa's dismay. =20 >>=20 >> Jacob Proffitt > >You can't be that big a fan - she actually has four albums out, not = two!!! ;) > >--Ivan Wolfe, who is not a fan of Tiffany, but whose wife is. That's true enough. I liked Tiffany at the height of her popularity and bought the most famous album and the one immediately following. Then I = went on a mission and never pursued any earlier or later works. Jacob Proffitt - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Ender's Game_ (Review) Date: 30 Mar 2001 00:33:41 -0700 Lee Allred wrote: > I mention this partly because I'd heard a rumour (apparently false) at > the BYU sf symposium this month that Card had given up doing > booksignings. > > --Lee > > [MOD: My understanding is that what Card has given up is multicity book > signing tours, not individual book signings.] He would do whirlwind two-week non-stop multicity tours every time a book came out. That was getting to him physically and emotionally. Those are the singings he won't do anymore. But he still seems to be doing plenty of appearances. He says he'll be taking trips that he can include his family on now. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Groups Date: 30 Mar 2001 01:41:55 -0800 At 12:38 AM 3/28/01 -0700, D. Michael Martindale wrote: >What's the point of churning out volumes and >volumes of unreviewed dreck? As long as it gets published anyway, money. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Levi Peterson" Subject: Re: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 29 Mar 2001 20:28:43 -0800 A non-practicing Catholic is one who doesn't go to mass. The term most often used for Mormons is "inactive," isn't it? It strikes me that non-practicing is equally useful though I like the term "Jack Mormon" best of all. However, you have to work at being a Jack Mormon, while being merely an inactive Mormon means quite the opposite. Good Jack Mormons practice their backsliding with an express eye to affronting their more righteous neighbors. Levi Peterson althlevip@msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Ender's Shadow_ (Review) Date: 30 Mar 2001 03:08:38 -0700 ENDER'S SHADOW by Orson Scott Card December 2000, Tor Books Mass market paperback, 469 pages $6.99 "Fascinating, But Definitely Not the Big One" People often ask Orson Scott Card why he doesn't write something else as popular as _Ender's Game_. His response is, he wishes he could. He's tried. Then along comes _Ender's Shadow_. Not a sequel, not a prequel--I guess that makes it an equel? But the book certainly isn't an equal to the legendary novel that spawned it. Not that _Ender's Shadow_ isn't fascinating to read. There's lots of room for a novel to be good, even if it doesn't measure up to the most popular book by one of the biggest science fiction authors ever. _Shadow_ on its own would be judged a good novel, well worth reading. It's not its fault that it will inevitably be compared to The Big One. Where _Ender's Game_ is the story of a very young Ender Wiggin, boy savior of humanity, _Ender's Shadow_ is the story of his even younger sidekick, Bean, who is his right hand man from Battle School all the way to the victory over the Buggers. _Shadow_ covers the same time period, but from Bean's point of view. This is what makes _Ender's Shadow_ so fascinating: many gaps in the original tale are filled in as we follow Bean on his adventures that Ender, and we, never knew about. But contrary to Card's claim that either book can be read first, I can't imagine appreciating _Ender's Shadow_ nearly as much unless you read _Ender's Game_ first. There's very little duplication between the two books--what's covered in the first is glossed over in the second--and I can't see how people could truly understand the Battle School without first reading _Ender's Game_: how the games and the politics among the children soldiers work, and even what happened during the individual training battles that Ender and Bean participated in. But we do get an in-depth understanding of Bean, who starts out as a street urchin in Rotterdam on the verge of starving to death. We are introduced to his superior intellect--the very sort of intellect the Battle School is looking for--as he parries with a street gang for a morsel of food instead of being murdered by them. You might expect that he ends up in charge of the gang, like any self-respecting brilliant kid strategist, but that would be too cliche for Card. Instead Bean begins manifesting his "behind the scenes" approach to power, from whence the book gets its name, by becoming the shadow power behind the figurehead leader of the gang. He influences the leader to do things that help the gang scavenge for more food than they've ever had before. His ideas are so effective, they end up being adopted by all the gangs in the city, and the watchful eyes from the Battle School begin to notice an amazing thing happening among the anarchic urchins of Rotterdam: they are becoming civilized. Because _Ender's Game_ is Card's most popular (and lucrative) book, it might be tempting to attribute a mercenary motive to him for writing _Shadow_--trying to cash in even more on the Ender phenomenon. I wouldn't fault him for wanting to do so, as long as he wrote a good book in the process--but that conclusion would not be accurate. Card had considered opening up Ender's universe to other authors to write in. He even lined the first one up. But as he developed the story with the other author, he began to realize that he cared very much about Bean's story. Card wrote _Ender's Shadow_ for the same reason he's written every other of his books: he wanted to write a story that mattered to him. Card takes an intriguing mix of elements and synthesizes them into a complex and--well, I can't get Spock's favorite word out of my head to describe _Ender's Shadow_--fascinating novel. But through my entire reading experience, I couldn't shake the feeling that something was missing. The characterization didn't seem quite truthful--carefully, cleverly, and consistently crafted, but not quite truthful. I couldn't place my finger on why. Perhaps it's because, in _Ender's Game_, we like Bean. He seems a good and decent kid who is loyal to Ender. In _Ender's Shadow_, we learn that many of the likeable things he did in _Ender's Game_ were motivated by calculating and cold-blooded self-servience. Bean turns out to be quite the sociopath--understandably so, considering his harsh upbringing. In fact, I found myself wondering if he was still better than a real boy would turn out under similar circumstances. But it was disappointing to find the Bean of _Ender's Game_ was an illusion. I can't fault the author for this. He was being true to the character he created. But the end result is that _Ender's Shadow_ is a fascinating (there's that word again) intellectual study that doesn't affect the reader at the emotional level that _Ender's Game_ does. Perhaps it can't, given the nature of the story. Perhaps it's as good as that story can be, and only suffers in comparison to its towering, emotion-laden cousin. Nevertheless, _Ender's Shadow_ is still a book that holds its own against other notable science fiction books by Card and other authors. None of my reservations should deter anyone from reading it. Just don't expect _Ender's Game_. Expect a very different book. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 30 Mar 2001 10:21:42 -0700 I'm sorry, but I kind of agree with Benson. If they used to be Mormon, and are messing around with Mormon themes, that is an entirely different kind of thing from us "Mormon" Mormons who are trying to write to an audience of faith. Entirely different. In fact, downright amazingly different. Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 30 Mar 2001 10:25:32 -0700 If there were another way to do it, that might be fine. I hate the word "disaffected," but what about "past" or "disengaged," "past friend of the LDS Church?" I'm just shooting off at the mouth. Someone else, please come up with something. Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 30 Mar 2001 10:19:02 -0700 I'm with Margaret and Thom on this one. I'm not an active Mormon. I'm a = couch potato Mormon. I'm a beached whale Mormon. Oh, wait, you mean on = Sundays. Yeah, then I do rouse myself for a three hour block, then it's = back to inactive status. (GOOD nap days, Sundays are). =20 Wednesday nights, I'm particularly inactive. (Ed PLUS West Wing PLUS Law = and Order!) NBA playoffs, I become totally inactive, until the inevitable = annual elimination of the Jazz, and then I get a bit more active, = especially when dealing with crabgrass. I'm a very inactive home teacher. = Oh, I go and all, but as far as all that energetic galumphing around on = the floor with the little'uns on my back is concerned, I figure that's = what priests are for. As for getting in shape, I don't need to. I mean, = round's a shape. I'm also a very unorthodox Mormon. Proud of it. I cuss, a lot. I never = wear a tie. I participate, very loudly I'm told, in Priesthood, until my = son elbows me awake again. =20 So, better call me inactive. Temple recommend holding BYU professor, = sure. But happily inactive, and looking to get more inactive this = weekend. Passive voice sentence construction and serious falling = inflections are the best cure for insomnia I know. Eric Samuelsen - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Schedules Date: 30 Mar 2001 10:36:54 -0700 Mike, this is funny and wonderful. ESPECIALLY to see you take kid responsibility like a modern father. While I was doing eighteen batches of laundry for the Villa Theatre, I said to myself, "I know now why most great writers, musicians, politicians, statesmen, scientists, movie-makers are MEN." I say MOST. I know there are Madame Curie exceptions who bucked the odds. Anyway, now is the day of TWO people working together to do what they want to do. If they want to create art as well as families, they have to "work it out." I do a lot of dishes and laundry, but my husband does a lot of pounding nails and selling houses to keep us floating. We try to keep it equal. And now that we are bent over old "fuddie duddies," it's working pretty well. (Grin) Marilyn Brown ----- Original Message ----- > I've been working on a personal project since the beginning of this year, > and I've settled into a routine that works like this: [snip] - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marianne Hales Harding" Subject: Re: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 30 Mar 2001 10:39:12 -0700 >The AML has >given awards to all sorts of Mormons--coffee drinkers, self-described >apostates, and bishops. I don't really think we need to know where >everyone >rates on the orthodoxy scale to appreciate what they add to the community. > >[Margaret Young] This is true. It's interesting to know, but, to be entirely honest, a large part of that interest is on a gossipy level. (speaking for myself) Marianne Hales Harding _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] B.J. ROWLEY, _My Body Fell Off!_ (Review) Date: 30 Mar 2001 09:13:50 +0000 Hee hee hee! At 04:13 PM 3/29/01 -0700, you wrote: >I just love it when Jeff claims not to be an old fuddie duddie. And part of it >is true. Jeff is not old. - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: [AML] _Anne Frank_ Performance (was: Exultate Concert) Date: 30 Mar 2001 10:50:17 -0700 I am going to stick this in here, hoping you will all at least be aware that you have a choice! Congratulations to Exultate! It sounds wonderful. But also at 7:30 Friday night there is the opening night of Anne Frank. There are two Anne Franks, and Sharlee Glen's daughter Erica will be playing it Monday night, April 2 at the Little Brown Theatre, 239 S. Main in Springville. And she is wonderful! (Both young actresses are outstanding--you won't find any better! It's a great show!) Also, tonight, Bill will be receiving a regional award for his service to community theatre, etc. (It's going to be a surprise to him--I'm so grateful for the people in Denver who really do appreciate what he has done, though it's a bit uphill in our community because it's true, as someone said at one time that we are a bit off the beaten track, and Springville has not responded much yet with only 17% of our patrons from Springville--but we keep hanging in there--and Eric Snider has been a help). Thanks! Marilyn Brown - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Huls Subject: Re: [AML] Writing Groups Date: 30 Mar 2001 13:28:02 -0600 Hurrah! Someone besides me is in this game for lucre! Ronn Blankenship wrote: > At 12:38 AM 3/28/01 -0700, D. Michael Martindale wrote: > >What's the point of churning out volumes and > >volumes of unreviewed dreck? > > As long as it gets published anyway, money. > -- Craig Huls Huls & Associates email:dcraigh@onramp.net webpage:http://rampages.onramp.net/~dcraigh - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: Re: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 30 Mar 2001 13:58:11 -0600 I appreciate the difficulties that have been raised about labeling and the problems thereof. But I think the situation is more complex than that. It affects at least three different Irreantum contexts (and more departments): * Interviews * Published poetry, fiction, drama, and personal essays (in the biographical blurbs) * Book reviews, selected recent releases, and Mormon literary scene announcements Generally speaking, Irreantum interviews either directly address the question of the interviewee's relationship to the Church or it comes out pretty clearly in context, and I think that's appropriate. After all, isn't one of the big Irreantum questions how Mormonism affects a creative artist's work? I can't really imagine an Irreantum interview that's really complete for inclusion in the magazine that doesn't make that clear. (And in the event that an Irreantum interview were to be with a completely non-Mormon literary figure--say, Tony Kushner--I would expect the intro blurb to make it clear that this was a non-Mormon who was being interviewed for _Irreantum_ because he/she had written important work that touches on Mormonism.) I don't know if Irreantum has published creative works by non-Mormons, but again, I can imagine it happening in some circumstances. In those cases, I think it might be appropriate to mention the person's non-Mormonness in the biographical blurb at the end of the poem/story/etc. Overall, I think the line I would take here--both with Mormons and with non-Mormons--would be to ask them if they want to include anything about their self-identification as a Mormon in their blurb, and then follow whatever lead they wanted to take. In some cases, I presume that would mean there was some mention of their Church membership and activity; in other cases, not. I'd say that's the prerogative of the author, and a courtesy that Irreantum owes to the authors they are publishing to defer to their wishes in that regard. The last category is probably the trickiest. In the case of Mormon literary scene, since Irreantum publishes both news about Mormons and news about non-Mormons who are doing things that affect the Mormon literary scene, membership information--and sometimes status--is part of the news, part of the story that's being told. For example (to cite cases in the latest Irreantum): without that label of "LDS animator," I know of no reason why I should care about Don Bluth's recent Dublin profile. Similarly, I think it would enhance the coverage of Marion Smith's novel _Riptide_ to know whether she is Mormon or not, and how she identifies herself in that regard. Similarly, in the case of books that are being reviewed or their release being announced, it's part of the news--part of the story--to know whether an author is Mormon, non-Mormon, anti-Mormon, was raised Mormon (e.g., Zenna Henderson) but doesn't claim that identification anymore, etc.--particularly if the subject matter is Mormon. We can't expect that every Irreantum reader will already know all the "familiar names"--unless we're content to publish only for a fairly narrow group and not reach out and try to educate outside the Mormon literary community's existing inner circle--and will know (for example) that Gerald and Sandra Tanner are prominent anti-Mormons. A label is part of the story. (I also recognize that there's a difference between labeling someone simply as "Mormon" or "non-Mormon" and going further, into gradations of Mormonness. But that binary classification system doesn't work, in many instances. Doesn't mesh with how the person describes himself or herself, or with the stance that the person takes within a community. And so, in some cases at least, it's necessary to go simply beyond Mormon and non-Mormon in order to tell the story.) I think it's important to defer whenever possible to a person's self-identification. That is, if someone calls himself/herself a "former Mormon" or a "cultural Mormon" or a "believing Mormon" or simply a "Mormon," that's a label we should respect, unless there's strong reason for doing otherwise. There's also the matter of public identification: how someone is viewed within the community is part of the news, and in this department, at least, Irreantum is a news magazine. If George P. Lee were to write a book and the news were to be included in _Irreantum_, his public background in the LDS Church would be part of the story--and, I think, it would have to be included, if that's a story the magazine wants to tell at all. That said, I recognize that the practice is fraught with peril. There's the danger--almost the certainty--of inconsistency; there's the horrible--and perhaps eventually inevitable--possibility of attaching a label that is incorrect and with which the person in question would choose not to identify himself/herself. Unfortunately, I think that comes with the territory of choosing to publish a news magazine--which, in part, is what Irreantum is. The only real solution--and it's only a partial one--that I can think of is to exercise care, and try to be consistent, and make every effort to defer to the artist's own self-identification unless there is very strong cause not to do so. And if Irreantum makes a mistake or offends someone, give the author the opportunity to point it out in a letter to the editor section, with apologies from the editorial staff as needed. Jonathan Langford Speaking for myself, not the List jlangfor@pressenter.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: Re: [AML] B.J. ROWLEY, _My Body Fell Off!_ (Review) Date: 30 Mar 2001 13:58:24 -0600 Not having read the book...still I think I have to stick up for Jeff Needle's basic concern. First, though, a few caveats: Yes, I'm a science fiction and fantasy buff--have been for years. And there are lots of things I find perfectly acceptable as premises in science fiction and fantasy that I don't think happen in real life, or that if they did happen I would find deeply frightening. As for myself, I think the jury is still out on telepathy and such--whether they exist at all, or if so as natural abilities that only a few people can imperfectly tap, or only as gifts of the Spirit, etc. I think there's sometimes too much concern about satanism and the occult in some segments of both Mormon and conservative Christian communities. I recall hearing a television interview with someone (in Utah, if I recall correctly) who claimed that anyone who dressed in black was a satan-worshipper. Oh, yes, and that the rainbow is an infallible sign of satanism and the occult. It made me wonder what he thought about God putting the rainbow in the sky in the story of Noah... I think that sometimes we give the dark side (to use Star Wars terminology) both too much credit and too much power by paying too much attention to its extravagant claims. Note that this is not because I don't believe the dark side exists. Rather, I think that we give it power by the amount and type of attention we pay to it. At the same time... There has been a significant upswing in the occult in the United States in recent years, I think. There is something deeply entrancing about the idea of personal powers, beyond the reach of most ordinary humans, which increase the range and scope of our abilities. Much of the best science fiction and fantasy is about the exploration of that kind of power--its effects and the morality of its use. (I cite as examples the psychic powers in Card's _The Worthing Chronicle_ and the Ring in Tolkien's _The Lord of the Rings_.) Adolescents, in particular--partly because they are in the middle of exploring issues of personal power--are often enthralled by the vicarious exercise of extraordinary abilities that fantasy affords. Fantasy literature is a great place to explore the implications of such power. When it comes to following such abilities out of the realm of literature and into the realm of real life, however, I think there is great cause for caution. I don't have any concern about Thom Duncan going out and trying out-of-body experiments. I don't have any real concern about bona fide Buddhist monks doing so. I do have concern about teenage kids getting together and trying out things that I think can be remarkably dangerous--because they don't know what they're doing, and because I think a great deal of adult skepticism is needed here--something many kids don't possess. There's a reason, I think, why Church leaders have counseled against the occult--and I think it has to do with opening oneself up to certain types of influences, *whether or not* telepathy and such really exist, and whether or not they are inherently evil (which, if they do exist, I very much doubt that they are--inherently evil, that is). If you honestly believe that you're getting inside someone else's head, and someone else is getting inside yours--or that you're projecting your mind outside your body--doesn't it follow that you ought to exercise great care in what influences you open yourself up to, what minds you enter, and what realms? I think there's a great deal of potential for deception--both self-deception and deception on the part of others--when one starts trying to practice such things in real life. If those abilities do exist, I'd say they're a pretty potent thing--and we ought not to be blithe about how and whether our kids are going to go experimenting in those realms. At least one respondent to Jeff said something about kids being able to tell the difference between fiction and real life. On the whole, I agree with that. But this is one area where there's great difference of opinion about what is real life. Apparently, Brent Rowley argues that what he's talking about isn't just confined to the realms of fiction. And lots of other people feel that way as well. As a reader of fantasy literature, something that saddened me in the late 1980s and into the 1990s was what I saw as the burgeoning number of fantasy fans who took magic seriously, and attempted to practice it in life, and saw (coopted?) fantasy literature as a literature that celebrated their interest in the occult. To some degree, I think this was connected to the rise of new age beliefs and neo-paganism as a significant cultural influence in the United States--which they are. Indeed, I think that for many youth, neo-paganism, Wiccan, and the like are serious competitors for their religious allegiance, just as Mormonism, Catholicism, and more traditional religions are. I don't find this particularly shocking and horrible (I have relatives who are Baptists and relatives who are Wiccans, and I have amiable relations and mostly avoid discussing religion with both)--but seeing telepathy and such as part of a belief system changes the way I think about them. It was about the time I realized this (not coincidentally, about the time I moved from Utah to southern California) that I sadly put my "Born-Again Druid" button--which I had worn with great enjoyment at BYU--into a drawer and stopped wearing it: because I realized that rather than simply expressing an esthetic appreciation of trees, I was wearing something that could be taken as a declaration of belief. I know that the effects of literature on real life is an area where Thom and I, for example, are simply never going to agree. And I think that for many fantasy fans, there's an assumption of unreality we bring to what we read that makes it highly unlikely that having read about a magic spell in a story, we'll say, "Wow, I want to go try that out and see if it works." But that boundary isn't there for everyone, even in the fantasy community. And so I think it's legitimate to ask the question--what the real-life effects of a particular approach to psychic abilities, out-of-body experiences, etc., in fiction will be on its readers--particularly when the fiction is written for a "young adult" (teenage) audience; particularly when coupled, as it apparently is in this book, by a declaration that what is being described is *not* simply fantasy but part of reality as well. I'm not saying that I know what the answer to the question is. But I vote with Jeff that the question is worth asking. Long-windedly yours, Jonathan Langford Speaking for myself, not the List jlangfor@pressenter.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: [AML] Tom WOLFE, "My Three Stooges" (Essay) Date: 30 Mar 2001 14:03:47 -0700 I just finished reading what I found to be a tremendously interesting and = provocative essay on the nature of writing, which I'd like to recommend to = everyone. I'm a big Tom Wolfe fan. I think The Right Stuff is one of the most = brilliant dissections of a particular time and place I've ever read, and = I'm on record as absolutely loving A Man in Full. He has a new collection = of esoterica out, a collection called Hooking Up, and it's a pretty uneven = mess. Some of the essays are very interesting, others are not up to = Wolfe's usual standard. There's a novella, which isn't bad, and then = there's his 'profile' of William Shawn, which I'd heard of but hadn't = read. But in this collection was the one essay I most dreaded and the one = I put off reading til last; his famous response to attacks made on A Man = In Full by John Updike, John Irving and Norman Mailer. This essay, called = My Three Stooges, would be, I thought, defensive and unnecessarily = personal, and I didn't want to read something like that from an author who = I admire. I thought it might be whiny. And I've got small kids at home. What I did not anticipate was a fullblown call to arms, an attempt to = chart a whole new (or actually not so new) direction for the American = novel. =20 Wolfe's argument is that the literary establishment--basically Updike, = Mailer, Irving, Saul Bellow, others of their ilk (what's an ilk?)--have = become highly sophisticated, verbally masterful navel gazers. Wolfe = suggests that the greatness of the novelistic form is its ability to look = very closely and deeply at a particular time and place, and therefore what = he calls for is a return to the journalistic novel. And the giants he = suggests should become our favored novelist models would include Dickens, = Zola and Steinbeck. He argues that attacks on A Man in Full are based more = on fear than on jealousy--that is to say, the fact that the book was a = huge bestseller scares a John Updike or a Norman Mailer, not because their = most recent novels have tanked, though that's part of it, but more because = they recognize in Wolfe's sales figures the popularity of a kind of novel = they detest and reject, and they're worried. That's his argument in a = nutshell. =20 It's not very nice to call Norman Mailer a 'stooge' and Wolfe can be = pretty wickedly funny. But he's also making a serious argument, and it's = one that we should consider as LDS authors, I think. Part of what animates Wolfe's entire book is a sense of wonder and joy and = amazement at this astonishing time and place we live in. That's a lot of = what he's saying. What a wild, wacky, crazed, sick, hopeful, brilliant = world we live in! What a carnival, what a circus, what a funhouse! I sit = in my office, writing this on my computer, and it turned out I'd forgotten = the name of the essay collection Wolfe's essay appeared in. So I went to = Netscape, then to Amazon, found it in 20 seconds flat. That's amazing, = isn't it? I'm listening to '70's prog rock, downloaded off Napster, = moving my mouse across a Dilbert mouse pad. I love all this stuff. This = is an amazing time. It seems to me that, as LDS artists, that at least some of us have the = same kind of engagement with the world that Wolfe is calling for. I = wonder if that's not why so much of Mormon fiction deals with missions, = for example. It's the first chance most of us have to really see = something we've never seen before. And mostly we love it. =20 And Mormon culture is as wacky and amazing as any other culture. We have = a chance to be as journalistic as Zola. Anyway, I thought it was very interesting. Give it a read. I think = you'll be as invigorated as I was. =20 Eric Samuelsen =20 - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: [AML] _Anne Frank_ Performance Date: 30 Mar 2001 11:51:15 -0700 There was one more thing I wanted to say about the Villa's production of _The Diary of Anne Frank_. In most professional productions of this show (including the original Broadway run), the part of 13-year-old Anne is played by an older actress. I can understand why since it is such a demanding role. I think it was very brave of Bill Brown to cast two 14-year-old girls to play the part, especially when a number of very competent older girls showed up at the auditions--including, as I understand it, several young-looking BYU theater students. As a result of Bill's decision, I think the play will have a component of believability that is lacking in some of the other productions I have seen. The downside is that while these young girls will certainly be convincing as 13-year-olds, whether or not they have the emotional depth to be convincing altogether remains to be seen. My guess is that they do. As I said ealier, I haven't even seen any of the rehearsals yet. But I do know that Erica has been profoundly moved by this whole experience. I found her going over her lines the other day with tears literally streaming down her face. "Mom," she said to me. "I almost can't bear it when Anne talks about her dreams for the future--of being a journalist or a movie star or of having children. I can't stand it that because of one horrible human being and the fear and hatred that he stirred up, Anne and millions of others like her were never even able to grow up." I hope that many, many young people come to see this show and that they leave forever changed. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: [AML] Re: _Anne Frank_ (Performance) Date: 30 Mar 2001 11:00:59 -0700 Marilyn Brown wrote: > also at 7:30 Friday night there is the opening night of Anne Frank. There > are two Anne Franks, and Sharlee Glenn's daughter Erica will be playing it > Monday night, April 2 at the Little Brown Theatre, 239 S. Main in > Springville. And she is wonderful! (Both young actresses are > outstanding--you won't find any better! It's a great show!) Erica will also be doing the show tomorrow evening (Saturday, March 31). Her other dates are April 2, April 7, April 14, April 20, April 21, April 27, April 30, and (closing night) May 7th. But the other Anne Frank (Jessica Woahn) is, as Marilyn says, wonderful too--so go whenever you can! List-members Scott Tarbet and Marie Knowleton are in the show as well and, though I haven't seen the production yet, by all accounts they are both outstanding. > Bill will be receiving a regional award for his service to community > theatre, etc. (It's going to be a surprise to him--I'm so grateful for the > people in Denver who really do appreciate what he has done, though it's a Marilyn, this is great! What, exactly, is the award? Will it be presented at the show tonight? Bill certainly does deserve some recognition for what he has accomplished with VIP Arts. As do you--his partner, helpmate, and laundress. :-) Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "mcnandon" Subject: [AML] _The Unsinkable Molly Brown_ (Performance) Date: 30 Mar 2001 15:52:36 -0700 I wasn't planning on making this post, but since others have preceded me, I can't resist. _Molly_ opened this week at the Draper City Hall. It is sponsored by the _Draper Arts Council._ It is a dynamite show with some of the best scenery I have seen in the valley. The director, Soni Barrus has worked at the _Hale_ and owned her own theatre near Logan. Richard Lossee is playing J.J. Brown. Some of you may remember when he played the role at SCERA. He is marvelous and Natalie Empey, who plays Molly was born for the role. I am playing the role of Mrs. McGlone on Thursday and Friday, April 5th and April 6th. You can get tickets by calling Albertson's in Draper. The show starts at 7:30. Nan Parkinson McCulloch - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: Re: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors (Compilation) Date: 30 Mar 2001 18:08:10 -0600 [MOD: Here's a compilation of several posts I've received on this. I don't want to lose the momentum of the discussion, but we're nearly at the 30-post limit for the day, with tomorrow starting as a Saturday when little--sometimes nothing--is posted, depending on my work schedule. Feel free to keep sending in messages--but they're likely not to come out until Monday. I'm sending a couple of messages from Chris Bigelow in a separate compilation post.] Jacob Proffitt wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:27:50 -0700, Thom Duncan wrote: > > >I would suggest a policy of using labels that refer only to a person's > >profession or avocation (such as "Film Maker Richard Dutcher") and > >remove all references to even their church membership. At the very list, > >if you want to refer to a person's religious standing, do so if they are > >acative and believing, but dont mention their LDS status if they are > >inactive. > > I, for one, am grateful for the information on a person's relationship to > the church. Particularly when they claim LDS ties. I want to know if a > person left the church or not. That information plays a role in my > perception of the artist. So where do you draw the line? Should a review of a play by Eric Samuelsen say, "Inactive home teacher but current Temple Recommend Holder Eric Samuelsen..." or a book by Scott Card "Democrat but Clinton-hater Orson Scott Card..." You say it plays a role in your perception of the artist. That is precisely why I'm agin the idea. A friend refused to watch what I consider the best version of the life of Christ ever made (Jesus of Nazareth) because she had heard that the actor portraying Christ used drugs in real life. "I'll never watch another movie starring Julie Andrews," said another friend, "Not since she appeared naked in that movie." At the same time, I'm not at all against an author's attitude about the Church coming up in an interview where (hopefully) there is room to mitigate any blanket statements ("Yes, I haven't been to Church in ten years but I still support the Church in other ways...) A two-word encapsulation of one's attitude about the Church ought be avoided, however. -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals Actually, if the writers would agree, we could invent an orthodoxy ranking which could follow each of the author's contributions, rather than the traditional bio. It would be much more interesting than knowing how many children said author has, or whether or not their pets are spayed. I think the issues Eric raised comprise a good list. Author swears: a) Never b) occasionally c) whenever the occasion justifies a good expletive d) gratuitously and proudly. Author attends church a) never b) on Easter c) when parents are in town d) wouldn't miss even during a bout with tuberculosis, etc... Jonathan Langford wrote: > > Similarly, I think it would enhance the coverage of Marion Smith's novel > _Riptide_ to know whether she is Mormon or not, and how she identifies > herself in that regard. I would have appreciated something saying that Marion Smith was a woman because I know a man of the same spelling. Why shouldn't Irreantum also mention that? Shouldn't people also want to know the sex of a person? > A label is part of the story. Isn't it assumed that, since someone is mentioned in Irreantum, that they have some connection with Mormonism? That should be enough, as far as I'm concerned. > (I also recognize that there's a difference between labeling someone simply > as "Mormon" or "non-Mormon" and going further, into gradations of > Mormonness. But that binary classification system doesn't work, in many > instances. Doesn't mesh with how the person describes himself or herself, > or with the stance that the person takes within a community. And so, in > some cases at least, it's necessary to go simply beyond Mormon and > non-Mormon in order to tell the story.) In interviews, you have this luxury. In blurbs, you don't. Therefore, you should drop the use of labels in blurbs. > > I think it's important to defer whenever possible to a person's > self-identification. That is, if someone calls himself/herself a "former > Mormon" or a "cultural Mormon" or a "believing Mormon" or simply a > "Mormon," that's a label we should respect, unless there's strong reason > for doing otherwise. I would still not use it, unless it was absolutely important to the story. For example: "Former-Mormon Deborah Lakke tells about her life as a Mormon in _Secret Ceremonies_. She's writing an expose of sorts, and it makes sense to refer to her that way. But what if she wrote a book of poetry. Do we refer to Carol Lynn Pearson as "Former wife of a gay man who still hasn't married and she's 55 Carol Lynn Pearson ..." I would support Irreantum's stance to include such phrases if the interviewee has given his/her permission but would avoid it in the absence of clear approval. As one who has battled labels his whole life ("You know, for a Mormon man, you're remarkably evolved," a young feminist once told me), I tend to react to such phrases as "inactive," "less active," stronger than those who've lived a more mainstream life. But that's only because I know who labels can sometimes wrongly color the minds of others." There was a man in the ward I grew up who was married to a Mormon. He'd never joined. When asked wouldn't he like to have the lessons, his own wife said he'd never join. My father, then a stake missionary, knew about that label, but didn't let it bother him. He goes over to the guy's house. "Chet, why haven't you ever taken the lessons?" "No one's ever asked me." My dad gave him the lessons and baptized him. How long had this man been out of the Church because his own wife and neighbors thought of him first as a "non Member" and only secondarily (if at all) as someone who might make a good member. That is just one example of the damage labels can cause in our attempts to deepen interpersonal relations. > That said, I recognize that the practice is fraught with peril. There's > the danger--almost the certainty--of inconsistency; there's the > horrible--and perhaps eventually inevitable--possibility of attaching a > label that is incorrect and with which the person in question would choose > not to identify himself/herself. Unfortunately, I think that comes with > the territory of choosing to publish a news magazine--which, in part, is > what Irreantum is. A news magazine about what? Literature? Or people? -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals Why not have the Irreantum writers write their own self-description? If they think their religious status is relevant, they'll be better able to describe it accurately than someone else can. "I'm a faithful and active member of the LDS church who nevertheless believes that the Provo temple is an eyesore that will eventually bring down the Lord's wrath on the Church. I'm an accomplished playwrite, and in my spare time I warn people of contrail poisoning and black helicopter incursions into Northern Utah." Yes, that tells me much more than "Jim Picht is an active member of the LDS church. He received the Mildred Hart Bailey Award for writing incomprehensible academic dreck." (Well, I'd like to think Irreantum would leave out the unnecessary editorializing about the award, which I haven't actually received, by the way; this year's winner is, literally, a witch.) Jim Picht ----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Jonathan Langford I appreciate the difficulties that have been raised about labeling and the problems thereof. But I think the situation is more complex than that. That said, I recognize that the practice is fraught with peril. There's the danger--almost the certainty--of inconsistency; there's the horrible--and perhaps eventually inevitable--possibility of attaching a label that is incorrect and with which the person in question would choose not to identify himself/herself Maybe we should ask ourselves: Why do we want to label people? Does it make us feel more secure of our position-whatever that may be? Maybe it is a tradition that we've inherited from childhood that we should reexamine. Didn't many of us grow up knowing who was active and who was inactive in our neighborhood? What does it mean to be a rule breaker? What does it mean to be "worthy"? Levi Peterson makes me laugh about the "Jack Mormon" label, but the laugh is tinged with the pain of realizing how much judgment (unrighteous?) takes place in our culture----of outward signs of conformity or of apparent righteousness. I remember years ago when Terry Tempest Williams spoke at BYU. She said she would always be Mormon, but she announced that she didn't have a temple recommend--and a tear ran down her cheek. These issues are many times deeply emotional and very sensitive. Gae Lyn Henderson After reviewing a recent issue of Consumer Reports, I'd like to offer a proposal toward a convenient standardized method for representing Church status. In Consumer Reports, products are rated by indicating relative performance in a particular category with a small circle. For good performers, the circle is colored in. For less-than-satisfactory, the circle is less filled in, in increments corresponding to the degree of dissatisfaction or defect. A similar approach could be easily adapted to the task of informing readers about an author's standing in the Church. --- Jim Cobabe - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: RE: [AML] Question for Irreantum's Editors Date: 30 Mar 2001 14:29:05 -0700 [MOD: And here's my compilation of Chris's posts--a rather dangerous compilation, since several of these are in multipart MIME format and I can only hope that I'm trimming the right bits to send this out correctly...] And plus, Irreantum covers non-Mormons using Mormon characters and themes in stuff aimed at non-Mormons (Walter Kirn, Tony Kushner, Judith Freeman), and Mormons using Mormon characters and themes in stuff aimed at non-Mormons (Orson Scott Card), and Mormons leaving out any explicit Mormon characters and themes in stuff aimed at non-Mormons (Orson Scott Card, Neil LaBute), and Jack Mormons using Mormon material in stuff aimed at Mormons and/or non-Mormons (often with the ulterior motives Levi Peterson pointed out), etc., etc. To analyze and categorize this amorphous Mormon literary sphere, I think it's essential to somehow identify these different elements. Normally I haven't reported status unless I picked it up from previously published interviews and articles. And when we label someone a "Mormon playwright" without saying whether they're active or not, it's because we don't know or they haven't discussed it in a public forum we're aware of. But I can't see calling Walter Kirn a "Mormon fiction writer"--he's got to be identified as a writer who practiced Mormonism for a short time in his teens. I admit Irreantum isn't handling this particularly gracefully or consistently yet, but I'm not inclined to stop reporting these interrelationships in some fashion. However, I am interested in figuring out a better way to do it on a case-by-case basis. Oh, and you can assume anyone mentioned in Irreantum's news section is NOT gay unless we report otherwise. Chris Bigelow Eric, unless you say in another public setting (or confirm it directly to an Irreantum editor if we ask you), as far as Irreantum is concerned you are Eric Samuelsen, Mormon playwright, without further confirmation one way or the other of your status. We only include the "nonpracticing" label if it's already public knowledge or if the person confirms for publication that that is their status. "Former" doesn't work because it might imply excommunication, and "inactive" or "less-active" are not terms non-Mormons are familiar with--and we do have several non-Mormon readers. "Nonpracticing" seems to be the national term for someone who is not active in their nominal religion. If I had known and confirmed that Martha Beck (is that her name?) had removed her name from the church records, then I would have put "former Mormon." For a literary magazine that identifies itself with a religious culture, we simply can't ignore the 800-pound elephants in our living room of what a person's religious status is. This next issue, we have a little news item on Mikal Gilmore, who wrote about his executed brother Gary in a national memoir and is involved in the Hollywood screenwriting scene. He's an AML member, but I don't have any idea if he's a Mormon or not. Unless I get around to tracking him down and asking him, I will probably label him "AML member Mikal Gilmore"--although on second thought, maybe the AML membership roll is confidential. One could guess an AML member is Mormon, but it's not guaranteed. If I just identified him as Mikal Gilmore, who would know why we're including him in our specifically focused news section, which is titled Mormon Literary Scene? I guess we could also say "former Utahn Mikal Gilmore," but we're not a Utah-centric magazine and it's not a sound assumption to connect Utah with Mormonism. This is a fascinating and important discussion, and I'm open to suggestions (but NOT sold on the suggestion to discontinue the practice). Chris Bigelow Another thought occurred to me: Would it help to, instead of just a label, say something like, "Julie Jensen, who has identified herself in published interviews as a nonpracticing Mormon, . . ." Does that help maintain the aura of objective news summary we're trying to have in Irreantum's Mormon Literary Scene section? In cases where we don't have published info on exact membership status, we would still need to say at least "Mormon author" if it's not otherwise clear in the context. Chris Bigelow - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm