From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #109 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Friday, July 21 2000 Volume 01 : Number 109 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 02:22:34 -0600 From: "Jerry Enos" Subject: [AML] RE: Great Authors This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BFF1F1.5D63D7E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think that applies to all forms = of art. There have been alot of posts about great writers and no one = has even mentioned the authors that I have enjoyed and gone to great = effort to get into my personal library. That doesn't make them bad just = my tastes are different then yours. I also must not be very well read = because many of the names given I have never heard of. Then again I = haven't heard of most of the stuff Andrew has put on his polls. What I look for in a book is something that I can get into. Something = that transports me from were I am sitting to a new place, a new time. = L. I. Wilder and L. M. Allcott can do that for me. So can S. Taylor and = G. C. Warner. But my favorite create a new world for me to go to. The = best here are C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien. T. Brooks is also quite = good. As far as to what the critics might say, I have no idea. But does it = really matter? Yes, Shakespeare, Milton, Homer, and Faulkner are = exceptional writers for the style that they chose and the time in which = they wrote but that doesn't mean that our more contempory writers are = terrible at it. Any way that is my opinion on the subject, unlearned and unread as I am. Konnie Enos - ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BFF1F1.5D63D7E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Beauty is in the eye of the = beholder.  I think=20 that applies to all forms of art.  There have been alot of posts = about=20 great writers and no one has even mentioned the authors that I have = enjoyed and=20 gone to great effort to get into my personal library.  That doesn't = make=20 them bad just my tastes are different then yours.  I also must not = be very=20 well read because many of the names given I have never heard of.  = Then=20 again I haven't heard of most of the stuff Andrew has put on his=20 polls.
 
What I look for in a book is something = that I can=20 get into.  Something that transports me from were I am sitting to a = new=20 place, a new time.  L. I. Wilder and L. M. Allcott can do that for=20 me.  So can S. Taylor and G. C. Warner.  But my favorite = create a new=20 world for me to go to.  The best here are C. S. Lewis and J. R. R.=20 Tolkien.  T. Brooks is also quite good.
 
As far as to what the critics might = say, I have no=20 idea.  But does it really matter?  Yes,  Shakespeare, = Milton,=20 Homer, and Faulkner are exceptional writers for the style that they = chose and=20 the time in which they wrote but that doesn't mean that our more = contempory=20 writers are terrible at it.
 
Any way that is my opinion on the = subject,=20 unlearned and unread as I am.
 
Konnie Enos
- ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BFF1F1.5D63D7E0-- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:29:21 -0500 From: "Todd Robert Petersen" Subject: [AML] Re: Great Authors Bob Hogge wrote: > Todd, > I thoroughly enjoyed reading your list. Quite a bit of fodder for a good > discussion! What about Holden Caulfield? Why thank you. Hyperbole and invective ar two of my best pedegogical tools. I am fond of saying that nothing is more boring than a room full of people who agree (except the Solemn Assembly and so forth) . Re: Holden Caulfield. As a teen (which is absoultely the wrong time for anyone to read Salinger--Jason, any resonses? I saw your CFP for Salinger stuff .) I hated CATCHER IN THE RYE because I wanted to beat up Caulfield for being such a whiner. I still find little value in self-abnecation and chest deflation through intellectual and emotional rebellion, but I think that Salinger is okay. That said, I'm not very fond of books that take place in or around New York. I've been that way for a long time. For lots of writers (not Whitman or Woody Allen), New York is a neutral backdrop, a kind of default. I did forget to mention the greatness of David Sedaris, Wallace Stegner, some of Andre Dubus when he's not making me choke on his sentimentality, Barry Hannah when he's not drunk (and according to my friend, Doug, Hannah is almost always drunk). Silko, Erdrich, and Alexie also get me going, but not Louis Owens or Tony Hillerman. Hillerman ought to be tied to an anthill. Some people were arguing about Faulkner. I think that we should not be allowed to trash on anyone who gets either a Nobel Prize or a MacArthur grant. Some people also mentioned Stoppard. Shoot, I should have thought of him. I think that ARCADIA is one of the best plays nobody knows about. In that vein, David Ives is pretty good too. I really like his, ITS ALL IN THE TIMING. Much more fun than Saturday Night Live. Plus I hate Tolstoy and Richardson, those books are too big. I also forgot to mention Isaiah. Todd Robert Petersen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:36:06 -0700 From: eedh Subject: [AML] Re: List Discourse Rats. "Sparring" is not the word I wanted. (I don't imagine you punching each other in the face.) It was "fencing" that I was after. What a difference a word makes. - -Beth Hatch - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:55:55 -0700 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] The Onion Skewers Mormons >At 14:27 19-07-00 -0700, you wrote: >>One of my favorite web sites, The Onion, today started running a >>satirical piece on Mormonism. >> >>It's at http://www.theonion.com/onion3624/mormon_loses_inhibitions.html. >> >>It's interesting to wonder where they got their material. Some of >>seems insiderish (use of Mormon >>names), but much of it seems outsiderish. >> >>I wonder if they got the idea from the recent news item about the >>Mormon kid who spiked cupcakes >>with sleeping pills . . . >> >>Chris Bigelow > > >I don't have any inside info about the author's identity, but I >would not be at all surprised if we found out that the author is on >this list, or at least someone who meets the major qualifications >(writing & religion) for membership. Very funny article, and you're right, it sounds almost like an "inside job." The thing is, The Onion is very strict about what it prints. It doesn't accept outside submissions at all, which means if it was written by a Mormon, it was written by a Mormon ON THEIR STAFF. To me, this seems unlikely, judging from the less-than-reverent tone the publication's writing often takes. Writing satire that has its facts straight is one of the Onion's strong suits. The very same issue has an article about a man trying to dress his dog up in a Boba Fett costume (from "Star Wars"), and it goes into alarming detail. Granted, heavy-duty "Star Wars" fans are easy to come by, but it also goes to show that when they want to make fun of something, they're not afraid to do a bit of research. They had one a few weeks ago about the "Quilting Club" (not unlike "Fight Club"), that had more details about quilting than I'd ever care to read. And having an active quilter on their staff seems just as unlikely to me as having an active Mormon (although it's possible the quilter and the Mormon could be the same person. We'll see if they start having articles about Jell-O salad recipes or how to shop for a minivan). Eric D. Snider - -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: (No, or invalid, date.) From: "Marilyn & William Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] (Curiouser & Curiouser) Confessions of a Former F.A.R.M.S. Filing Clerk I lost it here! Especially trying to pronounce Catliltlilus (I think I = am HER reincarnation). Marilyn Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:08:18 -0400 From: debbro@voyager.net Subject: Re: [AML] The Onion Skewers Mormons Just my two cents, I don't think any member, even one trying to throw off people who might know them, would refer to Seminary as 'temple'. Clever piece though. Debbie Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:14:23 EDT From: ViKimball@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Re: List Discourse In a message dated 7/20/00 8:47:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, eedh@emstar2.net writes: << Rats. "Sparring" is not the word I wanted. (I don't imagine you punching each other in the face.) It was "fencing" that I was after. What a difference a word makes. -Beth Hatch >> Mark Twain said: "The difference between the right word and the wrong word is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." Might be off a word or two, I didn't take time to look it up. Violet Kimball - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:33:03 PDT From: "Jason Steed" Subject: Re: [AML] Genre >Despitem displaying a slight lack of understanding about Science Fiction >(It's >much more than giving a human three arms, four legs and green skin) that >argument could almost be taken to prove Marion "Doc" Smith's half-serious >contention that EVERY form of literature is a sub-set of Science >Fiction/Fantasy >(or Speculative Fiction as some academics and SF authors now call it). I don't think I'm displaying a lack of understanding--because I don't suggest that a creature with 3 arms and one eye is all there is to SF (as you seem to infer). If that was what I was suggesting, then you would have to also accuse me of suggesting that "literary" or "mainstream" fiction was likewise one-dimensional--which of course I am also NOT doing. As for all genres being subsets of SF, that's sort of impossible, isn't it? I'm no SF expert, but the earliest SF work I can think of is _Frankenstein_. If you want to broaden the genre to include fantasy, then perhaps you could make an argument for Homer, et al, as being fantasy writers, because they wrote about mythical beings. But I have a problem with this, because fantasy writers (I believe) would admit that the creatures in their works are not part of the real world; but the Greeks _believed_ in their gods and myths. If you say Homer is fantasy, then you have to say a Mormon writer who writes "realistic" fiction with men who hold the priesthood, and a God who intervenes or at least is present in the story, is a fantasy writer. Do you want to say that? Furthermore, I happen to like the term "speculative fiction", because I think it allows for the incorporation of works that are not technically _science_ fiction, or fantasy. But it's a term that can lose its meaning if you start to say that all fiction is speculative. There's no need to modify the noun "fiction" with the adjective "speculative" if the adjective applies in all cases (i.e. we don't say "liquid water"). Jason ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:47:36 PDT From: "Jason Steed" Subject: [AML] Re: Good Writing >Jason wrote: > > >If these things are true, how can anyone claim that > >Plato is always mentioned only to be refuted or disposed of? I >think >Eric Samuelsen dismisses a major figure in intellectual >history too >readily. Eric responded: >I do not dismiss Plato as an important intellectual figure or as an >important philosopher. I do think that his ideas about drama (and by >extension literature), which make up large parts of three of the ten books >of The Republic, are dangerous, unworkable and foolish. Even Homer nodded. > The Cave is a brilliant analogy, and many of his other ideas are >important and valuable. I hope I've made that clear. Jason responds: I agree that Plato's discussions of art in The Republic are problematic. But what about his treatment of it in Ion? I think we have to remember context here. When Plato wrote The Republic, he was conceiving of an _ideal_ state. And because, at least according to Plato, the arts cannot provide actual knowledge but merely conjecture, they were posited as inferior (remember, though, that he didn't want to banish the arts altogether--just to limit them, so they would not interfere with an _ideal_ state). We all have to admit that art can be a controversial thing--and controversy would not be desirable in Plato's ideal state; thus, art is not desirable. But in the Ion, Plato addresses art in the world _as is_--not in his _ideal_ state. And in the Ion, it seems to me that he basically says that, while much art is crummy and worthless, it indeed has the potential to be divine in origin. Jason ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:10:34 PDT From: "Jason Steed" Subject: [AML] Re: Great Authors >Re: Holden Caulfield. As a teen (which is absoultely the wrong time for >anyone to read Salinger--Jason, any resonses? I saw your CFP for Salinger >stuff .) I hated CATCHER IN THE RYE because I wanted to beat up >Caulfield for being such a whiner. I still find little value in >self-abnecation and chest deflation through intellectual and emotional >rebellion, but I think that Salinger is okay. I love Salinger--think he's a fantastic writer (especially his dialogue, which is perfect IMO). But I do think teens love him (if they love him) for the wrong reasons (e.g. Holden's rebeliousness, his use of 4-letter words, etc.). I love him for his pathos, for his admiration and elevation of children, and simply for his ability to really _write_. For those of you who haven't read his novella "Fanny," or the stories from his collection _Nine Stories_, I highly recommend them. [And, yes, I'm trying to put together a collection of essays on _Catcher_, commemorating its 50th anniversary. Anyone on this list interested in contributing? You can write me for more info...] Jason ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:59:26 -0600 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] Genre On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 Scott Parkin writes: > Thus, Jonathan nails it when he says that different readers decode > stories differently. Most genre fiction fails miserably when decoded > by a reader seeking a hidden problem that isn't hidden. Most > mainstream fiction seems to stop just as the problem is finally > stated for a reader decoding for solutions to the problem. But what about those of us who like both? Are we bipolar? scott bronson [MOD: Some of us find such a label too limiting. Tripolar, quadripolar, millipolar...more poles than you can shake a--well, pole--at...] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:52:57 -0700 From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: [AML] AML Dinner Tonight Just a reminder about the informal AML dinner tonight at 6:00 at Thai Chili Garden, 3rd South and 3rd East in Provo. We've had 10+ people confirm. The place is small but shouldn't be too busy at this time. If they seem to be overwhelmed, we can sit at multiple tables instead of insisting on all our tables touching. We'll just play it by ear. Feel free to come even if you didn't confirm. See ya tonight! Chris Bigelow * * * * * * Read my novella about Mormon missionaries at http://www1.mightywords.com/asp/bookinfo/bookinfo.asp?theisbn=EB00016373. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:39:28 -0600 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: [AML] Re: Good Writing Eric Samuelson wrote: That is to say, if I write about an act of violence, I'm pro-violence. = Not that the following has much to do with the rest of Eric's post, but I totally agree that the above idea is ridiculous--and dangerous. When _Titanic_ came out, with all the accompanying hullabaloo, I talked with a friend who had seen it (I hadn't at that point.) Her biggest complaint was that the villain is violent--he slaps Rose at one point. I tried to clarify that it was the VILLAIN doing this, right? That the story didn't justify the action, and tried to show that is guy is evil, right? She agreed, but still contended that she didn't agree with a man slapping a woman. I had to leave the conversation shaking my head. Regardless of how you feel about _Titanic_, I think the point stands that art must show at least a degree of evil. On a very basic level, how can John Wayne be heroic if there isn't a cowboy dressed in black on the other end of the dusty street? Or, for that matter, how can the Stripling Warriors be victorious if there aren't any invading Lamanites to fight? I feel strongly about this because the idea of banishing ALL literature and art that has anything remotely "bad" in it goes back to the point made earlier, that doing so would mean banishing ALL art, all literature--a terrifying thought. Annette Lyon ________________________________________________________ 1stUp.com - Free the Web Get your free Internet access at http://www.1stUp.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:50:17 -0600 From: Steve Perry Subject: Re: [AML] The Onion Skewers Mormons > From: "Eric D. Snider" > Subject: Re: [AML] The Onion Skewers Mormons > > Very funny article, and you're right, it sounds almost like an > "inside job." The thing is, The Onion is very strict about what it > prints. It doesn't accept outside submissions at all, which means if > it was written by a Mormon, it was written by a Mormon ON THEIR > STAFF. To me, this seems unlikely, judging from the > less-than-reverent tone the publication's writing often takes. > > Writing satire that has its facts straight is one of the Onion's > strong suits. It was very funny, but the references to "prayerbooks" and "going to the temple (high school age) for religious instruction during the school day," etc, seems like it's written by someone who had too tight a deadline to check the facts. I liked the accompanying pictures--adding verisimilitude left and right. Steve - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 01:19:17 -0700 From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [AML] The Onion Skewers Mormons ,82-83 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: harlowclark@juno.com Sender: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: aml-list On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:27:15 Christopher Bigelow writes: > I wonder if they got the idea from the recent news item about the=20 > Mormon kid who spiked cupcakes > with sleeping pills . . . >=20 There is a Mormon literature connection to this story, as the unpublished news story below shows. I'm not sure why my editor didn't run it. Maybe he doesn't like stories where his reporter is a (very minor) player, or he didn't like me quoting from the Toledo Blade, or PG is not my beat. I left out the part about Sr. Lian and her companion stopping by a member's house who called their parents, lest they hear of it first on national news. "Marie," Donna said, "Why did Sarah call Marie? I'm more likely to hear it on the news than Marie is [in Warshington]. And Marie didn't even ask any questions." A bit of sibling rivalry. I don't know the final disposition of the case. I never called Judge Woessner to see what happened at the arraignment. I cleande up Sarah's speling, which is atroshus. _______________ An LDS missionary in Ohio serving from the Pleasant Grove 12th ward was among 17 who got sick recently after eating cupcakes laced with a mild sedative. Sr. Sarah Lian, who lived in Pleasant Grove for two years before her mission, sent two pages of her journal detailing the incident in a June 25th letter to her aunt and uncle, Donna and Harlow Clark of Pleasant Grove. The missionaries were at a zone conference in Perrysburg Ohio, with lunch provided by the Findlay ward relief society. She said she found a pill on the bottom of a chocolate cupcake but "thought it was baking soda or something."=20 Soon after eating the cupcakes missionaries started "complaining of nausea and lightheadedness," according to a June 23 article in the Toledo Blade, which says rescue crews from 3 towns took the missionaries to hospitals. Lian called it "My first Ambulance Ride and I hope that never happens again." She said her symptoms were mild, "I slept for about 1=BD hrs and woke up with a headache and a little diarrhea but I am just fine." According to Lian President and Sister Hadley, the mission president and his wife, were among those who ate the cupcakes. She said she and her companion, who did not have a cupcake, stopped at a church member's home in Bowling Green on their way home. The member called their parents, worried they might otherwise hear about it on the news. Lian is from southwest Washington. She said that the sleeping pills were a fifteen year old boy's prescription medication. He had had a fight with his sister and put them in the cupcakes hoping she would get blamed. According to the Blade article he put the pills in after the cupcakes were made, and was at the church when they were served. The Blade article identifies the sedative as 10 milligrams of Ambien. The boy told police he put either a half or whole pill in each cupcake. A pharmacist at Smith's Rexall in Pleasant Grove says Ambien is "very safe, taken with prudence." The standard dose is 5-10 milligrams at night. He said Ambien is not designed to be taken in daytime as it interferes with activities like driving or operating heavy machinery, and is not suggested for long term use. "If you have a sleeping problem you have to treat the problem, not just medicate it." Charges were filed in Wood County Juvenile Court, where the boy is scheduled to be arraigned on July 17th. Dave Woessner, the judge in the case, told NewUtah! that the charge is "Corrupting another with drugs," and is a 2nd degree felony. It carries "a potential maximum penalty" of commitment to Ohio Department of Youth Services--which runs a juvenile penitentiary system--up to age 21. Woessner said there are a variety of lesser penalties "if he is adjudicated delinquent." He could be placed on probation, or be sentenced to community service. He could also be adjudicated as non-delinquent. The boy's name has not been released. Lian said she and her companion were out tracting the day after the conference and "were asked about the mishap." She said she agreed with what Steven Ballard of Ogden told the Blade. "We will forgive and turn the other cheek," she said. Harlow S. Clark ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 02:39:36 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Genre Scott Parkin wrote: > I think mainstream literary fiction often works to identify a problem > and state that problem powerfully. Climax comes when the character > finally understands the problem (with solution implied, or only > minimally illustrated). > > I think sf often takes the problem as a given, and attempts to > discover possible solutions to it. The problem is stated directly > within the fantastic premise, and climax comes when the character > either solves the problem, or fails utterly. > This is why Levi Peterson has had limited success. Pragmatic Mormons > want answers, not questions. Levi often focuses on clearly stating > the question, with the belief that answer is implies by true > understanding of problem. My reaction to your description of mainstream literature was, "No wonder I don't like mainstrem literature. Quick, hand me a science fiction book." Then you used _Backslider_ as an example of mainstream literature, and I enjoyed reading it. I didn't feel like the book was only starting when it was finishing. I felt the satisfaction of a problem resolved. It just wasn't a "tied up in a neat ribbon" resolution. The reader understood the problem early on in the book, that Frank didn't get life or the Gospel, so he was making all his choices based on faulty information and having everything turn out bad. The solution was when he accepted the empirical data of his real life experiences--assisted in seeing this by "Cowboy Jesus"--to determine what created happiness, and forsake the warped philosophy he had been struggling futilely to implement. The book satisfied my "tell me the problem, find me a solution" approach to reading. Or maybe I'm just literary enough that I don't mind a solution that isn't cut and dried. One that points the way to a solution and shows the protagonist taking a step or two in that direction is solution enough. I can fill in the rest. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:14:32 -0400 From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] List Discourse . Richard Johnson is always respectful of other >points of view, A lot of that comes, I think, from the myriad posts that came floating back to me in the early days of the list with comments from Ben saying: (forgive the loose paraphrasing) "Are you sure you want to state that in public?" or " There is some useful information here but there aint no way this is getting on the list till you remove the dirty words", or "Do you really want to inform the list that your mouth is size 11 1/2 D?" Thank you Ben for your encouragement of cultured dialogue. Richard B. Johnson Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Director, Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important http://www2.gasou.edu/commarts/puppet/ Georgia Southern University Puppet Theatre - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 08:32:26 -0600 From: Deborah Wager Subject: Re: [AML] List Discourse Anyone who is interested in this subject should read Deborah Tannen's books. She is a respected linguist who has studied the cultural differences in language usage, from the apologetic/assertive things we've been talking about here to the ways people overlap their speech in conversation to the way conversations are structured. She has mostly studied geographical differences (i.e., the way Greeks talk is very different from the way the British express themselves), but has also found and written about many differences that are gender based within a culture. One of the things she is careful to say is that not all men or all women exhibit these characteristics but that this communication style is often seen in men or women. It is obvious that there are deferential men and assertive women. However, they fall outside the norm. She also discusses the ways that some of these characteristics, such as the ritual apologies of women, serve purposes of facilitating communication within a subculture but tend to cause miscommunication across subcultures (as in mixed-gender business communications). I don't know very much about all this, but reading and talking about it lights a fire in me. If there were a graduate program in sociolinguistics anywhere in the state of Utah I'd be in school right now instead of reading this lovely list. Debbie Wager Sharlee Glenn wrote: - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 18:02:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] DU PRE, _The Prodigal Father_ (Review) THE PRODIGAL FATHER: A TRUE STORY OF TRAGEDY, SURVIVAL, AND RECONCILIATION IN AN AMERICAN FAMILY by Jon Du Pre; Hay House, Carlsbad, CA, 2000; 287 pages; $13.95 Jon Du Pre is a reporter for Fox News Channel. He used to work at KTVX, the ABC affiliate in Salt Lake.=20 This is his powerful, wrenching autobiography. It also tells the story of his father: an FBI agent, a assistant to U.S. Senator Strom Thurmond, and a civil rights attorney who gradually self-destructed through alcohol, drugs and other misbehavior, abandoned Du Pre's family and became a homeless wanderer. This is *not* just another Oprah-book. It is unsentimental: every insight and emotion is dearly earned. The tale of his family's downward spiral is excruciating to read (and must have been hell to live through of course.) They sink into poverty, his brothers become emotionally damaged, and his mother makes two more catastrophic marriages. His father makes occasional reappearances in the teen-aged Du Pre's life in order to manipulate and leech off him.=20 Du Pre finally joins the LDS church, goes on a mission to Italy, and attends BYU, where he marries Miss Utah and becomes a broadcast journalist (studying under the legendary Lynn Packer). His outward success masks a disturbed, pain-wracked heart however, and Du Pre finally makes the decision to investigate his father's past and ultimately to find and confront him. One of the most interesting things about this memoir is that Du Pre doesn't come off as very likable in the middle chapters; he presents himself as self-absorbed and harsh with the people around him. His final confrontation with his father is heartbreaking and unforgettable. Some grace and forgiveness occur, but there's nothing cheap or New Age-y about it. The moral of the story: in order to become a complete human being, you have to confront your fears and face down your demons. This book is very readable, but not exactly artful.=20 Du Pre spills his guts and the result is often more forceful than smooth. His Mormonness plays a crucial part in the story. As a young convert, his LDS friends allow him to see a more hopeful world beyond the horizon of his despair. BYU makes him into a professional. And although he doesn't parade it, his values inform the choices he makes. For example, when Du Pre is 18 or so, his father comes to live with him and tries to "get him drunk and get him laid." Du Pre resists these temptations. There is a palpable feeling of evil that hangs over these pages, as the elder Du Pre attempts to drag Jon down to his level.=20 No doubt more worldly readers will just conclude that the younger Du Pre is a prude, but LDS readers will understand. This book has reminded some reader's of "Angela's Ashes." My own comparisons would be with Mikal Gilmore's masterful "Shot in the Heart", William Kennedy's great novel "Ironweed", and Geoffrey Wolff's memoir "The Duke of Deception." It's not as well written as those books, but it has a scalding candor and honesty that produces an impact similar to those classics. =20 R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com =20 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail =96 Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #109 ******************************