From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #190 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Friday, November 10 2000 Volume 01 : Number 190 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 12:24:54 -0700 From: David Hansen Subject: Re: [AML] MN Mormons Oppose "Godspell" "D. Michael Martindale" wrote: > David Hansen wrote: > > > For example, if Ogden High had chosen to perform the musical "Hair" instead of > > "Godspell" would it have made a difference? Would the parents who complain be > > intolerant for not wanting their children to remove their clothes on stage as > > part of their public school's musical? What if they perform a play glorifying > > the crucifixion as a justified end to a bad man? Or claiming that Joseph Smith > > deserved to die? > > It should still be a personal choice. And if enough students personally > choose not to participate, then the work couldn't be put on, and that > might be a good indication that it wasn't such a good idea in the first > place. But as far as I can tell, the people who objected to Godspell > didn't even bother to consider whether reasonable people held a > different opinion from them--they assumed what they thought is what > everybody should think. That's intolerable. I can't believe that you really mean this. I think that you are trying to say that LDS people should be more tolerant of other viewpoints that may differ from our own. However, as a parent who is concerned about my children's education, including their moral education, I can't buy your statement that I must first consider whether someone else might have a different opinion before expressing my own. Let me use another example. Suppose a school fails to restrict elementary school access to pornography on the internet. The school was aware that in your child's classroom, the computer often accessed pornography sites, but did nothing to stop it. A "reasonable" opinion could be held by the principal that children have as much right to free speech as anyone else on the internet, and should therefore be allowed to view any internet sites regardless of their content. Because someone is "reasonable" (whatever "reasonable" is) on the other side, am I required to keep quiet? Because its a moral issue for me, am I required to stand aside as if being "non-moral" somehow made the opinion more legitimate? My point is that there ARE moral absolutes, and that where the line is drawn on those absolutes depends on the individual/culture. If you want to question where the Ogden High parents drew the line on their moral absolutes then we agree that performing in Godspell does not violate some inappropriate moral boundary. But, if you really believe that it is "intolerable" for these parents to object to something they find morally objectionable, then I'll have to disagree. Dave Hansen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:47:46 -0700 From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] AML Writers' Conference on 11/7/00 10:28 AM, Deborah Wager at dwager@vii.com wrote: > Shauna Nelson (Covenant) described several current books from Covenant > and summarized that she's looking for "real things [problems] that speak > to real people." Maybe it's the election jargon clogging my brain, but if I hear about one more plan or book or anything that "speaks to real people" I might hurt myself. Is there any other kind of person? S. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:55:38 GMT From: cgileadi@emerytelcom.net Subject: [AML] Re: Introduction: Ruth Starkman Was it you, Ruth, who felt that _Dancing Naked_ was problematic in some ways? Did it "ring true" for you? Cathy Cathy (Gileadi) Wilson Editing Etc. 15 E. 600 N. Price UT 84501 (from a computer out in Emery County, where I'm teaching an adult education class, right now assisting a student to edit his paper on longwall coal mining, which, if you have yet to learn about it, is mind-boggling) - --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:07:51 GMT From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Topics for Satire (was: AML Writer's Conference) > >Eric Snider wrote: > >> In other words, if people have been offended by my columns, they should > >see what I DON'T put it! > > > >I wonder if Eric would be so kind as to offer a list of things that a >sophisticated ironist, or even facile mocker, would consider serious or >sacred enough not to mock? > >Neal Kramer > Well, the temple ceremony, for one. I also wouldn't make fun of any general authorities in the critical sense, though I might crack a good-natured joke about Elder Maxwell using big words, or President Monson's fondness for stories involving widows. (With the GAs, my general attitude is that if it's a joke I can imagine them laughing at, even at their own expense, it's OK.) Jokes that criticize them or their policies might be OK for me and my friends, but I probably wouldn't write them in a column. I'm too conservative when it comes to church stuff to even want to SOUND like I'm doubting the leaders of the church. I'd avoid jokes about deity, too, because those guys are stronger than me. Like I said during the five or six seconds I got to talk at the conference last week, just mentioning something in a humorous context is not the same thing as making fun of it, though. I might mention any or all of these things in passing in a humor column, though the actual jokes would be at the expense of something else. (A joke about people who fall asleep while Elder Maxwell speaks is making fun of the people falling asleep, not of Elder Maxwell.) Eric D. Snider _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:59:32 -0500 From: "Todd Robert Petersen" Subject: Re: [AML] AML Writers' Conference Steve wrote: > Maybe it's the election jargon clogging my brain, but if I hear about one > more plan or book or anything that "speaks to real people" I might hurt > myself. > > Is there any other kind of person? Politicians. - -- Todd Robert Petersen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 23:37:03 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] AML Writer's Conference Marilyn Brown wrote: > I wish he would give us a list of those young people who did so much to help. I met Gordon Laws. He stuck to his post and did so well! Who were the others I didn't get to meet? Thanks to all! I'm afraid to give a list, because I know I'll leave someone out. There were volunteers popping out everywhere, and some I just referred to another volunteer who was in charge of something. I don't have any authoritative list of who volunteered. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 00:38:27 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] AML Writers' Conference Steve wrote: > Maybe it's the election jargon clogging my brain, but if I hear about one > more plan or book or anything that "speaks to real people" I might hurt > myself. > > Is there any other kind of person? No, but some books seem to act as if there are other kinds. You know, the kind of people who hold family home evening without fail every Monday night, do their home and visiting teaching the first week of every month, attend the temple every month (preferably at 6:00 am), have family prayer consistently twice a day and read scriptures daily with the whole family there, and always fast the full 24 hours every fast Sunday without one person getting a headache. All their kids get straight A's and scholarships to BYU, go on missions (preferably foreign), get married in the temple, don't kiss until they are kneeling at the altar, always dress modestly, never ask to date before age 16, never want to see R-rated movies, and are never even the slightest bit curious about smoking or alcohol or pornography or sex. Their bishops and stake presidents always give them the correct advice. They always learn to love the brats in their Sunday school class. They always say the right thing to turn the person sitting next to them in the airplane into a golden contact. These are the kind of people who never have any problems more serious than having to smooth over an unintentional social gaffe with the relief society president, or forcing themselves to visit a nursing home for a service project (and of course, coming to love the experience), or praying whether the girl they love should really be their eternal companion. These people never have problems like a daughter who has completely succumbed to the slavery of meth addiction (a member of my elder's quorum presidency), or whose son committed suicide (a family in my ward growing up), or who realizes he made a monumental blunder in choosing his spouse because the climate at BYU pressured him into marrying someone (more than one person I know), or who came home from his mission only to discover that his parents were on the verge of divorce and he never had a clue (me). Until recently, how much LDS literature spoke to these people? I think LDS literature speaking to "real people" is a legitimate goal to pursue. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 07:30:12 -0700 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] AML Writers' Conference > > Shauna Nelson (Covenant) described several current books from > > Covenant and summarized that she's looking for "real things > > [problems] that speak to real people." Steve Perry: > Maybe it's the election jargon clogging my brain, but if I hear > about one more plan or book or anything that "speaks to real > people" I might hurt myself. > > Is there any other kind of person? In contemporary Mormon fiction? Plenty. scott - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 15:04:46 -0200 From: "renatorigo" Subject: Re: [AML] Topics for Satire > We have to be open-minded about the standard behavior at church... They say to us we should wear ties, long skirts,... We musn=B4t laugh at church, conferences...etc Let=B4s use our logic brain to consider these aspects: - - Christ didn=B4t use ties...Christ laughed (I=B4m sure) Christ taught us to love our brothers and sisters all over the world and love other cultures and countries... This is the standard behavior Christ expects from us... The other things are Church=B4s standard behavior...And these behavior we should discuss when they don=B4t look like a logic thing for us... I love this church...but it has to change a lot to conquest the world... Renato renatorigo@ig.com.br - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #190 ******************************