From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #218 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Tuesday, December 12 2000 Volume 01 : Number 218 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 15:28:01 -0700 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Lost Boys_ (Review) Card, Orson Scott. _Lost Boys._ HarperCollins, 1992. ISBN 0-06-109131-6. $5.99. Unlike _Ender's Game,_ Card's _Lost Boys_ demonstrates that a successful short story cannot always make the transition to a novel. In most of Card's stories, he depicts people with some sort of extraordinary abilities: military geniuses, divas, prophets. Obviously, the lives of exceptional people make for exceptional stories. In _Lost Boys_, Card strays from that formula and makes the prodigy's parents his main characters. Now you shouldn't conclude that the lives of ordinary people cannot make good fiction, but it seems that Card's forte lies with depicting the exceptional rather than the unexceptional. In _Lost Boys_, Card depicts the lives of the Step and DeAnne Fletcher family, who move to Steuben, North Carolina, so Step can take a job with an educational software company. For the majority of the book, the Fletcher family deals with everyday life -- an unsatisfactory job, problems with the third-grade teacher, and acclimatizing to living in a southern state. Their only exceptional quality is membership in the Mormon church, which has almost no bearing on the story's anticlimactic outcome. To explain Card's ending would remove any reason for reading _Lost Boys_, so let me explain why the ending disappointed me while tiptoeing around any spoilers. My life runs at about the same pace as the Fletcher's life. I have to deal with a seemingly never-ending stream of problems and challenges -- no rise and fall of the plot, just a constant level of tension with no variation. Card describes real life quite well, but reading about characters like myself really doesn't interest me. Despite Card's successful demonstration of Step's job anxieties and DeAnne's overprotective personality quirks, the character's traits have almost no bearing on the story's outcome or with their reactions to the outcome. Knowing that Card started with a short story, I have to accuse him of padding the story with insignificant detail to create a novel from a shorter work. In fact, the surprise feels like the mild shock you expect from a short story, not the grand revelation of the unknown you would expect after 500 pages of story. Card doesn't even introduce the suspenseful elements that play on the story's resolution until well into the novel. As a suspense novel, _Lost Boys_ pales when compared to almost any other suspense novel because Card ignores the horror and terror that he could have built. Instead, we have the tension created by an overprotective mother, who turns out to have no power to protect her children anyway. And for me the clincher: Card relies on the fact that most people will sympathize when bad things happen to little children. If you told this same story but substituted older parents dealing with adult or teenage children, the story would loose most of its emotional impact. _Lost Boys_ disappoints as either a horror novel or a mainstream real-life story. I would suggest reading the original short story and then moving on to some of Card's more engaging works. - -- Terry L Jeffress AML Webmaster and AML-List Review Archivist - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 23:42:06 GMT From: Jeffrey Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Orgazmo m> <3A3121B7.DA14CE3A@postoffice.tased.edu.au> <3A31CF39.F5D81D1B@postoffice.tased.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; StarOffice/5.2;Win32) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I love comedies that do realistically humourous takes on religous=20= groups, as long > as they are not obsene, so you have wet my appetite for this one. I = enquired at > the local video store and they can get Orgasmo in from another store f= or=20 me to rent. > Now the only thing I have to consider Jeff, is, is this something Dr. = Laura would > watch? HOWL!!! I'll send her an e-mail... > On BYU-TV yesterday, Ann Edwards Connors was giving a very entertainin= g=20 talk at a > women's conference and she contrasted (negative correlation) herself t= o=20 Dr Laura. > Your opinions about Dr. Laura seem to be shared by both male and femal= e=20 LDS people. > Helena Interesting. Thanks for the info. - --=20 Jeffrey Needle E-mail: jeff.needle@general.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:38:07 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] LABUTE, _Bash_; Thanks for Get Wells I have received a short e-mail from Neil Labute, thanking me for a review of BASH I posted on Amazon.com. So you never know who's watching the net. Also, I would like to thank those on the list who have written to express get well wishes after my recent illness. Those who have experienced a serious health crisis know that afterwards, it's a whole different world out there. So, thanks for your prayers and support. ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 20:59:37 -0700 From: Steve Subject: [AML] Minerva Teichert Paintings Hi Listers, Any place to find Minerva Teichert paintings online? I've found a single one here or there, but nothing like a collection or retrospective. Maybe I'll have to check out some books? Thanks, Steve - -- skperry@mac.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:52:32 +1100 From: Helena Chester Subject: [AML] Re: Orgazmo I have realised just how sheltered a life I have lived and how naiive I am. I was shocked by that video (which I didn't watch right through, but I am sure it doesn't get any better). But, it was still a valuable learning experience in that it highlighted the different concepts of the value of human beings. Thank God for the LDS teaching that we are children of God, made in His image, and can choose not to live like animals and treat others as animals. It makes me feel like weeping that human beings of such great worth can sell themselves so cheaply! And I am not a prude when it comes to intimacy, but there was nothing intimate in any of those scenes - only cheap filth!!!! Helena - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:01:12 -0700 From: Neal Kramer Subject: RE: [AML] _Savior of the World_ (Drama) I received a fascinating phone call yesterday from a very bright friend. He is an avid reader and a deeply committed church member. He also tends in his thinking towards a kind of scientism. He has worked with physicians and pharmaceutical companies for many years. He saw _Savior of the World_ the other night and was blown away by it. >From his perspective, it was deeply inspired and inspiring. His testimony was ratified and strengthened. I'm sorry I can't give you a more precise review of his experience, but he thought the production was outstanding. Neal Kramer - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 01:40:33 -0700 From: "Gae Lyn Henderson" Subject: RE: [AML] Editorial: Micro-Politics and Power Structures Jonathan Langford in this editorial asked us to respect differing opinions on the list and not be afraid to speak up. Especially women. Couple of examples: I took a grad English class at Utah State years ago. The professor made the usual negative comment about the happy valley mentality of the local residents--people who just didn't get it. I took offense and made an impassioned speech about my Mormon family and their intelligence and spirit. The prof listened and apologized to me. He recognized that he was making a unfair generalization. I listened to him with much more receptivity after that encounter. When I was in graduate school in English at BYU in 89 I took a class in critical theory from Cecilia Farr. Cecilia was already becoming controversial for her outspoken opinions which she acknowledged from day one as feminist/Marxist. (As you probably know she didn't get tenure at BYU.) I was returning to school after years of staying home as a mom, raising six kids, and acting out the conservative Mormon dream. I was shocked by some of Cecilia's ideas and started to feel very repressed by class discussion because everybody agreed with her. One day I stood up and argued. After class a number of people thanked me for voicing some of their unexpressed feelings. Cecilia and I were at odds to a degree after that at times, but we worked it out. I read her assignments and found things I could agree with. She was willing to respect me. We became friends. I probably am still more conservative than Cecila, but that's okay. I respect her honesty and her commitment. Interestingly, she was the only professor I had in grad school that bore her testimony in class (which fact I indicated to the BYU administration). When I was teaching introductory literary interpretation, I found that students predictably reacted to some stories: "my life isn't like that, so the story is not worth very much." I disagreed, but I still tried to validate their right to an opinion. (If they don't like something that is okay and their opinion should be respected.) But I also wanted them to listen to other people and be willing to acknowledge differing reactions. Encountering something new--and trying to process it--is the valuable experience that literature offers. It is also the purpose of education, I think, because we begin to transcend our limited, local perspective and start to broaden our views. If the teacher is unwilling to listen to and acknowledge the students' opinions when they differ from her own, then she is not modeling a philosophy of learning. Students stop voicing their feelings and the discussion ends. The teacher probably has much less agreement than she thinks. Here Jonathan is encouraging us to listen and respect each other. I want to say that I learn something new every day from reading all of your opinions. That is: It's much > easier for all of us to feel ourselves in the minority than in the > majority; much easier for us to be aware of the ways in which our own > statements and ideas do not seem to be respected by others on the > List, but > much harder for us to see ways in which the reverse may be true as well. > much broader range > of voices than we typically experience in any given week. I'd like to > encourage more participation by women, in particular--there are some days > that pass when it seems that almost no female voices are heard. Women, do you hate arguing or are you just busy doing other things? In our ward Sunday School class almost no women say anything. Thanks as > well to those of you who do contribute regularly, who raise new topics for > discussion, who strive to express points of view you feel aren't being > adequately represented. Thanks to those who attempt to reach out to those > on the other side of particular issues and clarify both their own point of > view and that of others. We will never reach unanimity or agreement on > many issues we discuss on the List--I don't even think that's a worthwhile > goal--but mutual understanding and respect, ah, that is achievable, and > well worth working for. In my opinion. I will say that in light of my recent argument with Jacob about the story in Irreantum, that I admit I felt frustrated that that we obviously did not come any closer to agreement. But in the spirit of Jonathan's post, I will also admit that I understand the kind of reaction Jacob is talking about. I've had much the same feeling when reading material that I thought misrepresented my religion, for example Walter Kirn's story about a Mormon girl who sexually seduces converts into the church (title?). Young Women was never like that in my ward! Of course if I want to follow my own advice then maybe I have to listen? As much as I disliked that story, and I think I disliked it because I thought it would make people think my church was made up of a bunch of weirdoes, I have certainly remembered it. It does make me think about where women find their power and why they sometimes resort to subversive means to get results. Gae Lyn Henderson - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:03:01 -0800 (PST) From: Ruth Starkman Subject: Re: [AML] National Inroads for Mormon Lit Right on Chris! Great news on all fronts. Very sexy query letter too. Highly topical. Undermines stereotypes too. Dunno any of the agents' names you mentioned. You might know about this URL, but thought I'd include a link to a list that provides some info about agents and their reputations. http://www.sfwa.org/prededitors/ Good luck! - --Ruth Starkman - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:56:02 GMT From: cgileadi@emerytelcom.net Subject: Re: [AML] What Is Art? Eh, it doesn't hurt for anyone to call herself an artist. Lots of people call themselves writers too but may not write as well as we'd like. I'd like to think I'm an artist, though my sketches and paintings really fall short of professional. I call myself a dancer (I bellydance and even teach bellydance) although I'm almost 50 and do NOT look the image of a lithe 20-year-old ballet diva. I think it IS in the soul of the person, whatever makes him an artist. Cathy Cathy Gileadi Wilson Editing Etc 15 East 600 North Price UT 84501 - --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:13:38 -0700 From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Minerva Teichert Paintings >Any place to find Minerva Teichert paintings online? I've found a single >one here or there, but nothing like a collection or retrospective. I doubt strongly you'll be able to find anything online. Most of her paintings are held in private collections or by BYU or the Church. >Maybe I'll have to check out some books? This is your best bet, although there's not much. Here's some books and articles: Eastwood, Laurie Teichert, ed. _Letters of Minerva Teichert_. Provo, Utah: BYU Studies, 1998. Welch, John W., and Doris R. Dant. _The Book of Mormon Paintings of Minerva Teichert_. Provo, Utah: BYU Studies, 1997. Cannon, Elaine, and Shirley A. Teichert. _Minerva!: The Story of an Artist with a Mission. Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997. Wardle, Marian Eastwood. "Minerva Teichert's Murals: The Motivation for Her Large-Scale Production." Master's thesis, Brigham Young University, 1988. Dant, Doris R. "Minerva Teichert's Manti Temple Murals." _BYU Studies_ 38, no. 3 (1999): 6-44. Johnson, Marian Ashby. "Minerva Teichert: Scriptorian and Artist." _BYU Studies_ 30 (winter 1990): 66-70. Johnson, Marian Ashby. "Minerva's Calling. _Dialogue_ 21 (spring 1988): 126-43. biography in the December 1976 issue of the _Ensign_ magazine Hope these help. Marny Parkin - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:10:44 -0600 From: James Picht Subject: Re: [AML] What Is Art? I think there's a big difference between artists and dentists. You aren't recognized as a dentist because the public considers you a dentist, but because you pass educational and licensing requirements. There are objective criteria on the basis of which I can say with some certainty that you are or aren't a dentist, regardless of how much you love teeth and how much you know about gingivitis. I don't need a public accamation of your dentistry, I don't need to look at you in retrospect and say "his dentistry withstood the test of time - he was truly a dentist!" In some countries you've needed a union card to be considered an artist. A hack with a union card could feast on fish of "first freshness" at the "Griboiedov House" while a true poet couldn't get in the front door. But that was in a society that equated art with dentistry, just another profession in the service of the people. But some artists learn their craft with no formal training, others produce work that sees the light of day only after they die, others produce work that's derided as nonsense by their generation, only to be recognized as genius by a later generation. Others are acclaimed as brilliant artists in their own time, only to be (justly?) consigned to oblivion later on. We have no objective criteria for proclaiming someone an artist. All the juries in the world can say you're great when in fact you're merely connected or popular. I'm happy to let anyone who wants to call himself or herself an artist to do so; I think it really is a matter of the heart, and I don't know yours. I might think Norman Rockwell is an artist, you might think he's merely an illustrator; I might think Pollock is a doodler, MOMA might think he's a genius. Tastes vary, fashions change. Perhaps a late third millenium Sister Wendy will agree with me on Warhol, perhaps not. Was he an artist? He might have been a cynical mercenary. We'll never know - we have to divine his intentions, much like an election official contemplating a chad. It's so much easier to deal with dentists, physicians, and other professionals. A degree tells the world you're this or that. A real artist has an art degree - accept no substitutes. Dr. James W. Picht Trust me, I'm credentialed. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:51:32 -0700 From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Editorial: Micro-Politics and Power Structures Thank you for your comments Gae Lyn. I enjoyed them. Melissa had a = number of classes with Cecilia and I sat in on some of them and found them very interesting. On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 01:40:33 -0700, Gae Lyn Henderson wrote: >I will say that in light of my recent argument with Jacob about the = story in >Irreantum, that I admit I felt frustrated that that we obviously did not >come any closer to agreement. But in the spirit of Jonathan's post, I = will >also admit that I understand the kind of reaction Jacob is talking = about. I think we reached understanding. I don't think we came anywhere near agreement. I think we did our jobs well. When I read this list my aim = is to understand the discussion and the points made by those who post. Similarly, when I post, my aim (idealistically--I don't always live up to= my own ideals) is to attempt to be understood and state my opinion as = clearly as I am able. I think our discussion went just fine on that level. I'm glad we had the opportunity to express our opinions. I'm not really concerned that we didn't come any closer to agreement. I mean, I want everyone to agree = with me because I want to think I'm always right. But since it has been demonstrated to me over and over that I am not, I've come to not only = expect that others won't agree, but also to be grateful when they take the time = to point out why they don't agree. That way, I can see if my opinion needs = to be changed. Sometimes I end up agreeing (as in an earlier discussion on singles in the church). Sometimes I don't (as in our conversation). I'm confident that we agree on all the issues of the gospel with eternal consequences. For the rest, I await further light and knowledge... Jacob Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:56:06 -0700 From: "Tom Kimball" Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Lost Boys_ (Review) One book dealer that I know used to list his top 10 books he read each year= =20 for his clients. I would always buy any of his true-life adventure books on= =20 his list and I was never let down. As a book dealer, I enjoy asking people what their top books are on=20 different subjects, biography, history, novels ect=85 My favorite novel is Lost Boys, by Card. Maybe the book spoke to me because= =20 I read it after my first son was born, or because I was far from home, but I= =20 have rarely been moved by a story like I was with Lost Boys. I mailed the= =20 book to my brother. He read it, loved it. He gave it to his wife. She read= =20 it, loved it, but banned it from the kids. I hope you read the book if you get the chance. Tom Kimball ____________________________________________________________________________= _________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:02:19 -0700 From: "Jim Cobabe" Subject: Re: [AML] What Is Art? Art is the guy with no arms and no legs, hanging on the wall. - --- Jim Cobabe _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:42:10 -0600 From: "Marie Knowlton" (by way of Jonathan Langford ) Subject: [AML] Re: What Is Art? Well said, Scott! Art is not defined by the skill level of those creating it, nor are the artists defined by their experience or competency. Were it so, there would be far less art and far fewer artists to enrich our lives. We might also add that one does not necessarily have to act with the fixed intention of "creating art" in order be an artist. Art resonates in the spirit of those creating it and touches the lives of those perceiving it. To insist that theatrical productions or any other art form meet standards of expertise before it is deemed worthy to be callet "art", misses the point entirely. We can debate endlessly about whether "Savior of the World" is good theatre, but what really matters is how it affects the lives of those who see it. > > > > >From: "Scott Tarbet" > >Reply-To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com > >To: > >Subject: [AML] What Is Art? (was: _Savior of the World_ ) > >Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:01:04 -0700 > > > > >I said: > > > > > > > IMO an artist is anyone who sets out to make art. > > > > >And Todd asked: > > > > > > Does that make anyone who sets out to fix teeth a dentist? > > > > >Overheard at the art supply store: "Ma'am, I've got to see your picture ID > > >from the State Art Licensing Board before I can sell you that tube of > >cadmium yellow! You know it's a controlled substance!" ;-) > > > > >Sure, there's good art and there's bad art, just as there are good artists > > >and artists barely worthy of the name. But when a five year old feels the > >thrill of creation as she slaps paint around or raises her little voice in > > >song or twirls across the living room, and wants to feel that thrill again, > > >how is she not an artist? Art isn't in the training or the peer acceptance > > >or the societal acceptance or even in the competency -- it's in the heart. > > > > > >-- Scott Tarbet > - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:12:37 -0700 From: "Marie Knowlton" Subject: [AML] Note from Marilyn (Resend) Marilyn asked me to pass this message along on Friday. I am resending it in plain text format for those who have difficulty reading HTML. Marilyn Brown wants you all to know that she has been unable to be online this past week due to computer difficulties and misses you all terribly. She will be back as soon as she gets her computer fixed. She will try to be at the gathering on the 18th, but may be unable to make it due to a theatrical commitment. She would like someone in Salt Lake to make reservations at the restaurant for us. Thanks! Marie [MOD: Chris is taking care of this.] _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:59:06 -0700 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: [AML] AML-List Review Archive Update I have just updated the AML-List Review Archive (http://www.xmission.com/~aml/reviews/index.html). New reviews: 387 Dancing Naked by Robert Van Wagoner (review by Terry Jeffress) 388 Dancing Naked by Robert Van Wagoner (review by Cathy Wilson) 389 Rumors of War by Dean Hughes 390 Since You Went Away by Dean Hughes 391 Dancing Shoes by Erica Glenn 392 I Sailed to Zion by Susan Arrington Madsen 393 As Long As I Have You by Dean Hughes 394 Sy's Girl by Natalie Prado 395 Riptide by Marion Smith 396 The Clearwater Union War by Ron Carter 397 Life Before Life by Richard Eyre 398 The Dinner Club by Curtis Taylor 399 Cassidy by Lee Nelson 400 This Eternal Earth by Rodney Turner 401 A Massive Swelling by Cintra Wilson 402 The Ephraim Chronicles by Lee Nelson 403 Dancing Shoes by Erica Glenn 404 Worth Their Salt, Too edited by Colleen Whitley 405 Jews and Mormons by Frank Johnson and Rabbi Leffler 406 Savior of the World a drama at the Conference Center Theater 407 Lost Boys by Orson Scott Card Statistics: Top reviewers - ------------- 48 Jeff Needle 28 Harlow S Clark 26 R. W. Rasband Most rewiewed authors - --------------------- 28 Orson Scott Card 9 Margaret Blair Young 9 Benson Y. Parkinson Other Changes: The archive now has titles from over 85 publisher (well, imprints really). So I have split the publishers into alphebetized pages like the other categories. - -- Terry L Jeffress AML Webmaster and AML-List Review Archivist - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:10:57 -0700 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] _Savior of the World_ (Drama) Neal Kramer wrote: > > I received a fascinating phone call yesterday from a very bright friend. > He is an avid reader and a deeply committed church member. He also tends > in his thinking towards a kind of scientism. He has worked with physicians > and pharmaceutical companies for many years. > > He saw _Savior of the World_ the other night and was blown away by it. > >From his perspective, it was deeply inspired and inspiring. His testimony > was ratified and strengthened. > > I'm sorry I can't give you a more precise review of his experience, but he > thought the production was outstanding. I don't know your friend, but I would be surprised if he were an avid theatre goer. If so, then maybe he uses different standards by which to judge Chuch artistic endeavors than for other theatrical productions. I can't speak for anyone but me, but having sat in tears while Jean Valjean sings, "Send him home," I am less likely to be moved to tears by songs of less artistic merit regardless of the intent of the creator. It's like having studied the greats in poetry and then trying to get through Edgar Guest without wanting to hurl. It doesn't mean that Guest isn't a good poet, it just means that the kind of poetry he writes no longer speaks to you in the same way. You've moved on. Growing up, I loved the works of Edgar Rice Burroughs. Several years ago, I tried to re-read _Princess of Mars_. Couldn't finish it. I had moved on. I had, sadly, become more "sophisticated" in my understanding of what constituted good writing. Your friend no doubt has different taste, is clearly the audience member for such a piece as SOTW, or, as I suggested, he may have very sophisticated artistic tastes but prefers to set them aside when experiencing a Church production. I don't want this post to be construed as the defense of elitism, just an explanation as to how artistsic jugdgement may operate in the lives of different people. Thom Duncan - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:37:22 -0700 From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: [AML] AML-List Dinner on 12/18 Here is the list so far of people coming to dinner at 5:30 on Monday, = Dec. 18, at Guadalahonky's in Draper: Darlene Young + one Cherry Silver Scott Tarbet + one Scott and Marny Parkin Chris and Ann Bigelow Jonathan Langford (bringing anyone, Jonathan?) So my reservation count stands at 10. Have I missed anyone? [MOD: I'll be coming solo. Also, since this was sent in, I know John Bennion has expressed an interest in coming.] Chris Bigelow - -------- For a sample copy of IRREANTUM, the AML's literary quarterly, send $4 to = AML, 262 S. Main St., Springville, UT 84663. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:43:58 -0700 From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] Minerva Teichert Paintings > From: Scott and Marny Parkin > Reply-To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com > Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:13:38 -0700 > To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [AML] Minerva Teichert Paintings > > Welch, John W., and Doris R. Dant. _The Book of Mormon Paintings of > Minerva Teichert_. Provo, Utah: BYU Studies, 1997. Thanks to Parkin(s?) for this help. I've trudged back and forth from BYU's Museum of Art to wandering the halls of the new Joseph Smith Building on campus where Teichert originals from the Book of Mormon are randomly placed in various hallways. (They are now underplexiglass due to an unfortune lipstick incident and subsequent restoration... sometimes I sorta wish I'd have an unfortunate lipstick incident, but that's another story...) Also visited the Church's Museum of Art. After all this legwork I wanna sit down and see it all in one place before my wondering (not wandering) eyes. Isn't this what the internet is for? I may have to check out a lot of library books. Thanks again. Steve - -- skperry@mac.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:40:49 -0800 From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Orgazmo At 02:52 AM 12/10/2000 +1100, you wrote: >I have realised just how sheltered a life I have lived and how naiive I >am. I was shocked by that video (which I didn't watch right through, >but I am sure it doesn't get any better). But, it was still a valuable >learning experience in that it highlighted the different concepts of the >value of human beings. Thank God for the LDS teaching that we are >children of God, made in His image, and can choose not to live like >animals and treat others as animals. It makes me feel like weeping that >human beings of such great worth can sell themselves so cheaply! And I >am not a prude when it comes to intimacy, but there was nothing intimate >in any of those scenes - only cheap filth!!!! > >Helena Yuck -- cheap filth. Sadly, it's what fills the lives of so many people. Take care. - --------------- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:16:46 -0700 From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] What Is Art? Todd said: > I think that point at which a person > becomes an artist and not someone who simply makes art is when they find > themselves working when they don't really feel like it. At this point it's > no longer dabbling or playing or anything like that. Others have commented extensively and excellently on other aspects of Todd's definition, leaving me this one comment to make: A great deal of the art in the world is produced by people who aren't making their livings at it, but who might wish they could. It's made by people who eek out what time they can take from their hand-to-mouth existence because they love what they do and just can't help doing it. This is so well engrained in us that English even has a word for it: avocation: "a subordinate occupation pursued in addition to one's vocation especially for enjoyment" -- Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary Online. How sad it would be if we were to limit the art around us only to that crafted by full time professionals! - -- Scott Tarbet - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:14:13 -0600 From: "Todd Robert Petersen" Subject: Re: [AML] What Is Art? I'm going to say something so horrible, that I'm already swallowing hard, not because I think it's wrong, but because I know that I'm going to be slaughtered for it. These notions that art is in the spirit of the endeavor or in the heart are very sentimental and romantic ones, and I worry about them. There is a world of difference between the amateur and the professional in this arena. To be starry-eyed and say that everyone who wants to be and artist is an artist denigrates the work of people who have devoted their lives to their art. Isn't there a difference between somone who writes on the weekend and someone who writes every day, rain or shine, or when they are dying? One might think of themself as an artist, but that doesn't make it so. I know that this will make some people feel bad, but that doesn't make it untrue or not worth saying. I am interested in science but I am no scientist. I haven't, and probably won't, dedicate my life to science so I have no right to claim the title. I have, on the other hand, dedicated my life to art, which means that I write when I don't want to, when it is inconvenient to do so. I write instead of going to the movies and instead of eating or sleeping sometimes. I write when I ought to be doing other things. I have tried to stop writing for a time, but I do it anyway; it comes after me. I write things on slips of paper while I am at dinner with my in-laws. I write on Christmas morning. I lie down to sleep sometimes and have to get out of bed and go write. I have given seven years to the formal study of writing. This is different, in my mind, from someone who writes once or twice a month or from someone who has taken a class or who has an "idea" for a novel. I recognize that I am trying to defend some turf for myself, but I feel like it needs to be done. Not to keep people out, but to keep a sense of identity for myself. To be quite frank one does not hear a great many writers saying that writers are those who believe in their heart that they are such. One hears the opposite, that there are too many people taking up the moniker, of "writer" the primary consequence of which is the fact that title, "writer," stops meaning anything. The problem is that to say that something isn't art, is, as things are presently constituted, to denigrate that thing. [Todd Robert Petersen] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 01:22:16 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Lost Boys_ (Review) Terry L Jeffress wrote: > > Card, Orson Scott. _Lost Boys._ HarperCollins, 1992. ISBN > 0-06-109131-6. $5.99. > > Unlike _Ender's Game,_ Card's _Lost Boys_ demonstrates that a > successful short story cannot always make the transition to a novel. Terry has put me in a difficult position. I have been working through all of Card's novels, writing reviews of them for AML-List. When I get to _Lost Boys_, I don't know what to say now. About all I'll be able to do is point to Terry's review and say, "Ditto." - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:46:35 -0600 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Lost Boys_ (Review) I'm in a peculiar position. I haven't read _Lost Boys_ straight through, but did read the short story (before the novel came out), and have read large chunks of the book. (My reasons for not reading straight through have to do with a certain type of stress I have a very low tolerance for in books--not so much with regard to the main "horror" premise of the story, though I'm not a reader of horror, but scenes like the confrontation between the father and the nazi-teacher, which made my stomach cramp when I read it.) As a result, I can't speak to the main point Terry addresses in his review--that is, the sense of how the book succeeds or fails as a whole. But I can speak to one quality that I have seen in the scenes of that book I have read. This is (in my view, of course) by far the best depiction of a believing Mormon suburban professional-type family I have read anywhere. We have lots of literature that shows rural Utah-type Mormon experiences, often very well. But I think we're lacking in realistic depictions of believing Mormons in the environment that probably resembles the lives many of us on the List live. I'm very impressed by Scott Card's accomplishment in that regard, particularly in a book marketed to a mainstream audience. Note that this does not necessarily deny what Terry is saying (and D. Michael seems to be seconding) about whether the book succeeds or fails as a story. It may well be that the Mormon-ness of the characters winds up having little to do with the story's denoument (though on the whole, I'm one of the faction who believe that a character's Mormonness needs no plot justification; it can simply be a part of creating a whole character). And clearly, not being a horror reader, I can't speak to how well it succeeds or fails on that ground. And there are places where Card's depictions of Mormon life tend to the exaggerated/extreme--but it is an exaggeration, in my view, of the life many of us really live. Which, I think, is an immensely valuable contribution to Mormon literature. Jonathan Langford Speaking for myself, not the List jlangfor@pressenter.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #218 ******************************