From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #243 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Monday, January 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 243 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:51:14 -0700 From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] SAMUELSEN, _What Really Happened_ (Performance) On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:00:23 -0700, Eric R. Samuelsen wrote: >Linda asked: > >>Can I read it? > >I'd be happy to make this available on the List, if no one objects. Or = I could just email it to Linda, if you don't mind a hundred page file = showing up. What do y'all think? > >Eric Samuelsen > >[MOD: I'm willing to put it up on the List if there's interest in using = this=20 >as a jumping-off point for discussing artistic trends among Mormon = artists,=20 >a la R. W. Rasband's recent post. Or people can e-mail Eric individually= for=20 >a copy, although he informs me that he'll be out of town for a week.=20 > As a general rule, we've tried to keep AML-List from becoming either a=20 >critique group for works in progress or a publication outlet for = creative=20 >work--not because those things are negative in the least, but because=20 >they're not central to the purpose of the List as currently constituted,= and=20 >could easily change the tenor of the List. However, we do occasionally = allow=20 >posting of creative works either as a prompt for discussion (not = critique),=20 >as an illustration, or as an aside... Anyway, I'm willing to do it this = time=20 >if there's interest, or we can handle it the other way and let people=20 >contact Eric directly.] We've done this before with a play (Gadianton) for the list to read. I enjoy the ensuing discussions very much and would love to process Eric's = new work. Jacob Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:52:40 -0700 From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: Re: [AML] First Attempts to Be a Writer Sorry, but most of my poetic endeavors begin with something like: There was a young girl from Nantucket. I'll leave the serious stuff to Ogden Nash. Roy >>> Sharlee Glenn 01/26/01 10:36AM >>> How about: "Thy lusts and passions wither cold, especially since I've grown so old." Roy Schmidt HA! Love it. Maybe you should just go ahead and finish the poem, Roy. Or maybe that does finish it. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:49:35 -0700 From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] BARTHOLOMEW, _The White Dove_ On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:07:18 -0700, Brown wrote: >Will someone please inform us as to who the publisher is? Thanks much. Houghton Mifflin Co. Melissa Proffitt [MOD: Thanks to others as well who sent this information.] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:58:33 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] SLOVER, _Joyful Noise_ I saw this production at Pioneer Memorial Theater, the University Of Utah's professional company. It ran from Nov. 29 to Dec. 16. What a witty, inspiring play this is! Even if you don't love Handel's "Messiah" (which I do) you will get a kick out of it. Slover's curmudgeonly composer is a funny, touching, marvelous creation. He makes up for his worst moments by his breadth of vision (would that we all could do the same.) This play excells at portraying the sheer *effect* music has: when Mrs. Cibber sings (acapella) the "Coventry Carol" when auditioning for Handel, you could hear a pin drop in the theater. It's a magical moment. The play is also a bracing call for artistic freedom; to think that many at the time thought setting scripture to "popular" music was blasphemous, even obscene is to examine how changable our notions of propriety are. Slover also reminds us that love and forgiveness are as real as hatred and contention. In less sure hands the ending would seem sentimental; but the reconciliation of the characters here seems earned. I hope someday everyone gets an opportunity to see this on a stage. (I remember seeing Tim Slover in student productions at BYU; his dad also taught one of the best political science courses I took there. He was a lonely Democrat on that faculty:-) ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:03:03 -0700 From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Dialogue On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:20:47 -0700, Barbara R. Hume wrote: >> People choose the way they talk.=20 > >This is an interestin' idea. I'm not sure it works all the time, = though. Barbara, you do NOT talk this way :) I think it's uncommon for people to be able to turn off their = dialects--for one thing, you have to be aware of the difference between your speech and other regions' dialects. But it is possible. I also left Texas without = a drawl, though it's always bugged me that I can't reproduce the dialect at all (it's not what you hear on TV). But I think my maintaining a = standard "neutral" accent came from my involvement with the drama program; I had = an incentive to sound different and less, um, rural. My sister, six years younger than I, picked up a Texas accent immediately so she could blend = in. There's a lot of factors that affect the way we talk. Melissa Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:52:51 -0700 From: "Richard R. Hopkins" Subject: Re: [AML] Michael RITCHEY, _Disoriented_ (Review) Okay, hold on now! It's not that full of exclamation points! :-) Richard Hopkins - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:01:31 -0700 From: "Richard R. Hopkins" Subject: Re: [AML] Re: Michael RITCHEY, _Disoriented_ (Review) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Thom Duncan To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 1:54 PM Subject: [AML] Re: Michael RITCHEY, _Disoriented_ (Review) > I've not read the book, and having read D. Michael's review, I don't > intend to. Actually, I think Thom would enjoy the book a lot more than D. Michael did. (Hey Thom. Let's hope D. Michael doesn't review _Moroni Smith_.) :-) Richard Hopkins - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:46:07 -0600 From: "Rose Green" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Dialogue >Rose's entry above reminds me of a time I was chatting with a fellow BYU >undergrad, lounging around between classes in the HFAC. I, too, was raised >(and >born) in Arkansas and my accent is nearly identical with W.J. Clinton's, >although in 1980 nobody had heard, or heard of him. > >The girl told me that I spoke English very well for a foreigner. > >Tony Markham Glad to know I'm not the only "foreigner" on the list! Rose _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:35:35 -0600 From: "Dallas Robbins" Subject: [AML] Harvest Magazine (was: Year in Review, Pt. 4) Andrew Hall wrote: "Dallas Robbins' Harvest Magazine (http://www.geocities.com/cloudhill/) has the potential to be a more serious, interesting magazine, but so far it just hasn't had nearly enough content to keep it on my radar. After a somewhat interesting start early in the year, it went on hiatus for the summer. It came back in August with a fantastically interesting interview of Professor Woodworth of BYU on efforts by his organization towards aiding third world development, and a long defense of humanism by another BYU professor. Since then, however, there has been no new content. Dallas is on AML-list, I believe. Does Harvest have a future, Dallas? (Oh, I just checked the site, and all of the articles have been taken down, with a sign saying that the magazine is on hiatus again.)" Andrew, Thanks for noticing my little magazine. As you have already seen, Harvest has had a rocky ride over the past year. Due to lack of time and help, I have put Harvest on hold for an indefinate time period. I have had a specific editorial vision for Harvest that has only been partially realized on the web; and so I believe the only way Harvest will continue in the future is in a print version. I don't know when that will happen, or even if it will. So now I am going to focus on my own writing and sometime in the near future I'll be making more concrete plans for Harvest. Dallas Robbins cloudhill@hotmail.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:51:15 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Dealing with Mormon History "Eric R. Samuelsen" wrote: > It's a terrific story, and will make a wonderful play, I predict. But then my student said to me, "I wonder if I should write this play. It might make the Church look bad." > > That's a very tough issue, isn't it? > But can I lightly pass over her concerns? I don't think so. > But I don't want to pretend that this is an easy, cut and dried issue. It isn't. Then let me pass lightly over, cut, and dry the issue. Yes, she should write it--no question, no hesitation. It doesn't make the church look one miniscule bit bad. It makes the bishop and the grandmother look bad. One bishop and one elderly member are not the church. I've said it many times before, and I guess I'll keep saying it again: our leaders are not perfect, and what in the world makes us think we're doing the church any good by pretending they are? It's called disingenuousness; it's called lack of credibility; it's called lying or self-delusion, depending on who we're being dishonest with. This all seems _very_ cut and dried to me, and if even our most audacious artists like Eric Samuelsen hesitate to speak out against the abuses of power that happen--yes--even in the church of the Lord, what hope have we that abuses will ever be exposed and remedied? Does it really help to build up the kingdom of God to turn a blind eye to abuse of power? Maybe the writers of the four Gospels erred by telling us how Judas Iscariot betrayed Christ. Doesn't that story make the church look bad? - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 06:22:15 -0700 From: "bob/bernice hughes" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Dialogue >From: Barbara@techvoice.com (Barbara R. Hume) > > > People choose the way they talk. > >This is an interestin' idea. I'm not sure it works all the time, though. > >barbara hume > Sorry, but I would agree that people choose the way they talk, and choose to revert back to earlier speech patterns. My wife consciously lost her heavy accent after emigrating to the US in order to avoid the teasing from her classmates. She has never reverted to the accent, under stress or not. Having lived for the past decade in several non-English speaking countries, we have developed what expats know is an "international" accent. What that means is you speak with no discernible accent in order to be clearly understood. I love it when someone tells me they can't tell where I'm from based on my accent. To me that means I have succeeded in communicating, and not letting any accent get in the way. I would agree with a separate comment that trying to recreate accents in writing is a distraction. Bob Hughes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 06:23:22 -0700 From: "bob/bernice hughes" Subject: Re: [AML] First Attempts to Be a Writer >From: Turk325@aol.com> > >In a message dated 1/26/01 4:13:46 PM, glennsj@inet-1.com writes: > ><< How about: > >"Thy lusts and passions wither cold, > >especially since I've grown so old."> > >Roy Schmidt > >Could we drop the "so" to maintain the meter? > >"Thy lusts and passions wither cold, > >especially since I've grown old." >> >Kurt. > > Meter is very subjective, sometimes it is clear, sometimes not. The challenge for the poet writing in meter is to make it unmistakably clear. In this poem, one could argue that the meter is okay as originally presented, iambic tetrameter: Thy LUSTS and PASsions WIther COLD, esPECially SINCE i've GROWN so OLD. Bob Hughes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:05:52 -0600 From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN "Two Headed" in Los Angeles: Los Angeles Times From: Kent Larsen To: Mormon News Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:30:00 -0500 Subject: MN "Two Headed" in Los Angeles: Los Angeles Times 23Jan01 A2 [From Mormon-News] "Two Headed" in Los Angeles LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA -- Mormon playwright Julie Jensen's "Two Headed" is being performed in Hollywood's John Anson Ford Theatre through February 25th, giving Los Angeles audiences a chance to see the show, which has previously been presented in Salt Lake City and New York. In yesterday's Los Angeles Times, theater critic Michael Phillips reviewed the play, which explores the effect of polygamy and the Mountain Meadows Massacre on the lives of two women over 40 years. The play's two characters, Hettie and Lavina, are just 10-years-old in the first scene, which occurs just after the massacre. Each of the four succeeding scenes is ten years later than the previous scene, and the play shows the two women maturing, entering polygamous marriages, and struggling to deal both with the massacre and with the difficulties of polygamous families. Phillips says "There's a coiled anger to Jensen's work," and adds that the performance is "a thing of precision and short, sharp conversational shocks." After pointing out that one of the actresses overdoes her part, Phillips also has some criticism for the play, as written, which he says has "too much of the savage truth-teller in Lavinia." He also adds that the way Jensen points out the contrasts between her characters "awfully neatly and clearly" robs the play and its story "of a layer of myster." But, Phillips hastens to add, "Two Headed" has other things going for it. Source: A Journey Across 40 Years of Friendship Los Angeles Times 23Jan01 A2 http://www.latimes.com:80/print/calendar/20010123/t000006448.html By Michael Phillips: Times Theater Critic >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:40:17 -0600 From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] re: Mormon Dialogue No, no, no! Y'all is singular. You'all is plural. Don'tcha know? (Leastways herein' it is.) :-> Larry Jackson _______________ Ronn Blankenship: >Jim Cobabe: > And of course, "y'all" is ubiquitous. What is really amusing is to hear a Yankee use "y'all" when talking to _one_ person. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:39:25 -0600 From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] re: Mormon Dialogue I watched a young speller in another bee agonize over the spelling of a word the pronouncer had properly pronounced with the schwa sound. The speller know that the letter in question was either an "a" or an "e", but wasn't sure which. He asked that the word be repeated. He asked for the definition of the word. He asked that the word be used in a sentence. All of these requests were allowable under the rules of the spelling bee. The lady was very classy and savvy and pronounced the word identically each time. After the young speller had exhaused all of his attempts to determine the proper spelling from the pronunciation, she made it very clear she know what he was trying to do by saying, "the proper pronunciation of this word includes the schwa sound. You will have to decide whether the letter is an "a" or an "e". Please spell the word." He guessed "a". I remember thinking I would have spelled the word with an "e". He got it right. Larry Jackson ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:22:29 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: Re: [AML] SODERBERGH, _Traffic_ (Movie) The Deseret News reports today (Jan. 27) that Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah regrets his appearance in the new movie "Traffic" because of its vivid depictions of violence and drug abuse. The article can be found online at http://www.deseretnews.com I don't think Hatch has anything to apologize for, but he may be trying to placate his more conservative constituents. ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:03:06 -0600 From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] re: Dealing with Mormon History I also think she should write the story. But, it is very difficult to write this story without knowing what happened in the disciplinary councils, especially the third one. If in fact the father/bishop was wrongfully excommunicated, the story becomes one of another weak leader/stake president caving in to the grandmother. If the excommunication was warranted, the story becomes one of a father/bishop and presumably a very good man covering up a wrongdoing while serving in a leadership position, agonizing over it and finally coming to grips with it and desiring to repent. Will the Church be hurt? In the first case, some, but the truth is still there that mistakes can be made if the council is not properly held. This responsibility lies squarley at the feet of the presiding officer, and the perception that the decision is wrong causes a questioning of the inspiration of our leaders, who are not perfect. In the latter case, I see no harm to the Church. I suppose this would fall into the "justice is finally done" category. But, there may well be some reaction on the part of the family. In my experience, the decisions of councils are nearly always correct. The problem lies in the fact that members of the council are not at liberty to discuss the details, and the individual member is often not willing to reveal the truth, either. So the member's friends sometimes feel he/she was dealt with wrongfully. The story will be better told if she is able to learn from her father what truly happened. That answer, if found, will also determine how difficult it will be for her to tell the tale. In either event, a large part of her story might be how she personally copes with the situation, whichever it turns out to be. Larry Jackson _______________ Eric Samuelsen: ... a student ... wants to write a play about her family. Her father ... bishop ... was excommunicated. And the gossip wasn't true--it wasn't ever true. Or so says my student, ... It's a terrific story, ... But then my student said to me, "I wonder if I should write this play. It might make the Church look bad." I think it could become a wonderful cautionary tale, and also a play that's very important for a young woman struggling with her own issues. The part of me that says she should write it won, ... ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:32:57 -0600 From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] re: Year in Review, Pt. 4 (LDS Web Magazines) [MOD: Larry Jackson is actually the person who forwards literary/artistic articles from Mormon News to AML-List. Thanks, Larry!] You're welcome. Mine is the easy part. Kent Larson and his folks at Mormon News do the real work. I would add that Mormon News sends daily news, along with a weekly news digest, to those who subscribe to the e-mail list. Larry Jackson ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:55:16 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Michael RITCHEY, _Disoriented_ (Review) "Richard R. Hopkins" wrote: > Okay, hold on now! It's not that full of exclamation points! :-) That's true. They seemed to proliferate in the preface and first part of the book, but calmed down to normal for the bulk thereafter. I guess Ritchey spilt them all at the beginning of the manuscript. > Actually, I think Thom would enjoy the book a lot more than D. Michael did. > > (Hey Thom. Let's hope D. Michael doesn't review _Moroni Smith_.) :-) I don't actually wish I hadn't read it--now that I've put out my infamous review and don't have to dread writing it anymore. There are some positive things I can say about the book. The premise was a fascinating science fiction idea. Several of the action scenes were exciting. The decision to write such a matter-of-fact and speculative depiction of the afterlife was courageous (as was the decision to publish it). Ritchey _does_ have potential as an author, and merely needs to traverse the same learning curve as any other author. The book is important historically as one of the first genuine LDS science fiction books. I would still have wanted to read it for that reason alone, even if I had received negative feedback about it before doing so. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:46:42 -0600 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: Re: [AML] Editing Changes I've wanted to take on this topic all week long, and particularly after seeing insightful posts from Valerie Holladay, Cathy Wilson, and others. So I'm going to write about it now, and at quite a few paragraphs' length too--even though what I'm saying really doesn't connect clearly to the issues others have raised in this thread. So feel free to skip the rest of the post; I'm writing chiefly to indulge myself, not to make a particular point in the conversation... Like Valerie and Cathy, I make a lot of my money (such as there is) editing, and consider myself at least as much an editor as a writer at heart. In fact, a lot of the writing I do is a lot like editing, in that it involves reshaping already existing texts--which must often then be approved by the people who wrote the texts to begin with. I identify several different styles and levels of editing. Here are a few: * Editing for grammar/usage. This is perhaps the type of "editing" we most often think of, though in my opinion it's less important than some of the other categories listed below. I sometimes see some very odd editing that takes place under this rubric, based on an inexperienced (or mis-experienced) editor's mistaken notions of what constitutes "correct" grammar, often based on remembered rules from a high school English class. But English is not a rule-based system. Rather, I'd say that this type of editing is largely a matter of settling on usage that is appropriate and expected for the particular audience/genre of writing. What's needed, then, is a sensitivity to style and usage, and a gift for doing the minimal revision necessary to "fix" problems. * Editing for "house style." There are many areas in English where several alternatives are all perfectly acceptable. These include many instances of spelling (gray vs. grey), punctuation (comma before terminal conjunction in a series), typography (% vs. percent or 4 vs. four), and (most miserably) bibliographic style. A mark of professionalism in a publishing house (whether that's a book publisher or an in-house desktop publishing group) is consistency in these matters. There's a theory that even though 99% of the public never notices these matters, still the reading experience is smoother, with fewer hesitations and interruptions, if consistent rules are followed. And so we get massive tomes like the Chicago Manual of Style, AP style guide, etc., devoted largely to saying which of several options one particular publisher or professional group has decided to follow. This type of editing takes up an enormous, horrendous amount of an editor's time. It's also generally accepted that this type of change can be made without the author's okay--that it is, in fact, a matter of the publisher's discretion, not the writer's. This can lead to conflicts if, for example, a writer wants _grey_ for its atmosphere, and the publisher wants _gray_ because it's the more common American form. * Editing for clarity. This may be the single most important part of the editor's job in 90% of cases. Inherently, an author knows what he or she meant, and therefore cannot easily tell when that meaning does not come through clearly. Often, as Valerie indicated, even if an editor's suggested changes don't work, they signal a point where the author has failed to communicate the meaning (at least for that reader). I would caution here that it's always possible to overinterpret and see ambiguities where most readers wouldn't find them. This is particularly the case when one spends too long looking at individual sentences. After a while doing this, I start to find that every conceivable wording begins to look like it has problems. It's almost certainly true that any sentence in English can be misinterpreted--so you have to be reasonable in where you draw the line. When I think I may be starting to strain at gnats, I will often reread an entire section at normal speaking speed to try to see whether the problem I'm looking at disappears in context. In my opinion, this type of editing is usually best handled through a back-and-forth process with the author, if that's possible. After all, if the problem is one of clarity, it's certainly possible that the editor's interpretation of what was meant will itself be incorrect. I'll often propose an alternative wording in these cases just to convey more clearly what I think the problem was and to give my own "best guess" about what the author meant--but that's always subject to the author's review and feedback. If my proposed edit doesn't capture the author's meaning, I find that the best step at that point is a face-to-face (or voice-to-voice) conversation to clarify what was meant. * Editing for consistency or correctness of detail (e.g., character's height, historical dates). As an editor, you point out anything of this sort you see--or silently correct it if it seems clear to you what the author meant. However, I often find that what looks like inconsistency is actually a problem of clarity--that is, it looks like it's wrong, but really there's a distinction the author is making that isn't communicated clearly to the audience. So it's often better to query the author. In general, the author has to be the one who is responsible for content--though there are certain types of fact that I will always check as a matter of course. (For example, I always check out Internet sites as part of my final editing pass just to make sure the URL is correctly transcribed and the site hasn't shifted.) Some of my most glorious editing triumphs have come when I was able to point out some trivial fact that the author had missed--for example, the time I noted (in proofing a BYU Studies article, I believe) that Frederick Douglass's last name has two s's. Basically, though, it's the author's responsibility to get it right. * Editing for gross structural or content problems (e.g., plot doesn't work, character doesn't hold water, organization of the story is completely wrong). In my opinion, if this type of problem is encountered, it shouldn't be the editor's job to fix it--unless you're being hired essentially to rewrite the work. This is often the case in my job, where I work with material created by people who are content experts but don't think of themselves as writers at all. What I generally do in that case to take the best stab at what I *think* they were getting at, then give it back to them so they will tell me where I guessed wrong. But as I say, that's not really an editor's job--it's a writer's (or ghostwriter's) job. In the case of a piece of creative work, when problems are encountered that are this deepset, the best an editor can do (in my opinion) is outline the problems and suggest possible avenues that *might* work for fixing them, then return the work to the author for revision. Responsibility for attempting the revisions and fixing the problem then rests with the author. Be it noted that there's no guarantee changes suggested by an editor will fix the problem. As a writer, you may have to play detective to figure out what the problem really is: i.e., "What problem in what I wrote could have led the editor to say *that*?" Sometimes, you may decide that the problem is that the editor is simply not a part of your audience, or wants a different story than the one you wrote. If you suspect this may be the case, you may want to get second opinions on the suggested changes by people whose opinions on writing you respect and who you know have some interest and enjoyment in your work (not, however, "loyal friends" who can be relied on to be indignant in your behalf). But ultimately, you're the one who knows what story you were trying to tell, and you're the one who has to figure out how to fix it. * Editing for length. This usually happens in specific circumstances that should be clearly understood between an author and editor: for example, in an article written for a newspaper or magazine. The timeframe in such cases often doesn't allow for reconnecting with the author for review. I'd think that this case should seldom arise with printed creative work, although I guess it happens all the time in dramatic performances. * Editing for stylistic smoothness. This area is a particularly tricky one with creative works, where the author presumably has his or her own style and voice that are part of the attraction of the writing. The editor's job in this case is to attempt to detect lapses, then fix them in a way that leaves the work sounding like the author's own prose--ideally, more like the author's own prose than the original. This can work quite poorly if the editor's natural style is very different from the author's. In fact, this is one of those areas where very good writers can sometimes be very poor editors of another writer's work, because their own distinct style sense gets in the way. On the other hand, when this works well it can lead to improvements that both the author and the editor feel good about. In non-creative work, of course, stylistic distinctiveness is not usually one of the goals--in fact it's often a distraction. In these cases, stylistic editing is directed toward the goal of eliminating anything that might interrupt or jar the reader. Unfortunately, that may mean stripping an engagingly written piece of much of its personality, so it doesn't stand apart from its bland brothers. After all, if smoothness is the goal, a flavorless white sauce is smooth... I had other thoughts I could go into with regard to editing, but I'll stop (for now at least)... Jonathan Langford Speaking for myself, not the List jlangfor@pressenter.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:03:42 -0500 From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Dialogue At 06:22 AM 1/27/2001 -0700, you wrote: >>From: Barbara@techvoice.com (Barbara R. Hume) >> >> > People choose the way they talk. >> >>This is an interestin' idea. I'm not sure it works all the time, though. >> >>barbara hume >> > >Sorry, but I would agree that people choose the way they talk, and choose to >revert back to earlier speech patterns. I am very fond of anecdotal situations that lead to conclusions, but almost anyone who spends time working with people who are _trying_ to limit or eliminate an accent could tell you that "SOME" people choose the way they talk" but some do not. Hearing patterns are learned so thoroughly by some individuals that they simply cannot differentiate certain sounds. Among foreign speakers, one of the oldest cliches is the "r" "l" substitution made by many orientals. It is a cliche because it is real-- not with all speakers but with enough to make it real. It is real because those speakers cannot hear the "r" sound. We, as individuals tend to evaluate others by our own experience. Some times it works but there are so many paradigms different from our own that we must be very careful in assuming that what one has accomplished can be accomplished by all. I once had a college student with a terrible (as I thought) speech defect. As I got to know him better I discovered that he was a hearing child of deaf parents. His abilty to hear certain subtleties in both consonants and vowels was seriously compromised by childhood experience- not by deafness. He eventually achieved a degree of what we might call normal speech but it took therapy, work, and a great deal of frustration. It might be noted that though he was born in the South and when he learned to speak it was without a Southern Accent, when I last saw him he could not differentiate (hearing) between a southern accent and the normal accent of one of our students who came from Queens (and showed it when she spoke). Richard B. Johnson Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Director, Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important http://www2.gasou.edu/commarts/puppet/ Georgia Southern University Puppet Theatre - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:05:35 -0700 From: "Brown" Subject: [AML] _Odd Couple_ Performance I know it's a long way away. But I think somebody ought to come and see a very professional ODD COUPLE at the Villa's Little Brown Theatre in Springville. Scott Wells is a professional director who has run an entire successful theatre in North Carolina. It's a great show! (Of course I would say that--AND hilarious) Odd Couple runs Fri, Sat, and Mon at 7:30 p.m. Tickets $6-8.Marilyn Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:09:50 -0700 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Re: Michael RITCHEY, _Disoriented_ (Review) I'm willing to take my licks for whatever inadequacies D. Michael may find in _Moroni Smith_. Whatever else he may find, he won't find useless flashbacks nor too many exclamation points. :-) Thom - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:59:30 -0700 From: "mjames_laurel" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Regionalism > I loved to hear Michael say maybe the time will come when we don't have to > hope/wish/pray/beg for New York to accept our literature or our culture. > Exactly! I'm assuming the time has already come. I know I've butted heads > with New York and they are a foreign country. They just CAN'T publish our > stuff--they would be laughed off. My experience with my editor at HarperCollins has been exactly the opposite. I was nervous about submitting my first book, as it has rather direct references to faith and God and family and not too subtle Mormon values. My editor jumped on those things, and encouraged me to not only keep them in, but expand them. The end result is not blatant, and not Mormon, but definitely Christian (without being "Christian".) The second book I submitted is set in Utah, and very definitely about Mormons. I'm not sure why I submitted this in the first place, as it is entirely written in blank verse. With those HUGE strikes against it, the reaction to this book has been interesting. My editor informed me right away it can't be published as blank verse, but also informed me the editorial committee was so intrigued by it--Mormon-ness, blank verse and all--they instructed her to offer me a two book contract for this and an as-yet untitled and unwritten book, to discourage me from taking my little Mormon "poem-book" as I call it elsewhere. Since then, my editor and I have been struggling to figure out what format this book works in. As for content: her biggest concern is that I have not gone far enough in presenting the Mormon culture and setting. Granted, this is just one editor, but she's one of the foremost children's book editors in NY and has a couple of Newbery Award winners under her belt. I expect the world of children's literature is less fearful of Mormonism than adult literature, but I've been very encouraged by both my editor and agent not to shy away from Mormon and/or Utah themes. I've heard of similar experiences from one or two other children's authors with other editors and publishers as well (Putnam, Bantam Doubleday Dell and Holiday House.) Laurel Brady - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #243 ******************************