From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #464 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Tuesday, September 25 2001 Volume 01 : Number 464 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:56:57 -0700 From: Jerry Tyner Subject: RE: [AML] The List and the WTC Let's add one more log to this fire. I heard last week one news program that some in the Fundamentalist Islamic (radical fringe) world consider Osama Bin Laudin as the re-incarnation of Mohammad. To me this takes on a whole different meaning. Jerry Tyner - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:05:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Henry Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] _New Yorker_ Magazine So ... was Harold Ross Mormon? On Fri, 21 Sep 2001, Dallas Robbins wrote: > Christopher Bigelow said: > "You know, I think the New Yorker is the single best influence on my own > writing, which is why I put a lot of discipline into keeping up with it." > > Chris, > I too would agree with your sentiment. I have consistently learned more > about writing (and thinking) from reading the New Yorker than I all the > English classes and writing conferences I have been to throughout my life. > To make a connection to Mormon/Utah literature, a little know fact is that > the founding editor-in-chief Harold Ross was born in Salt Lake, attended > West High, soon dropped out of high school and started writing for > newspapers throughout the west. He then served in WWI, and came back to New > York City and the rest is history. > > Dallas Robbins > cloudhill@yahoo.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:08:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Henry Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] Where Were You? I was in the bronx, asleep on my couch when my sister called at around ten thirty to see if i was still alive. shocked the heck out of me. then b/c i don't have a tv i spent the next while trying to download internet pics of the crash site. just went down there the other day, btw--quite a dull yellow smell, but you can't get close enough to actually see anything. grand central is littered with pics of the missing. nyorkers are quietly pissed off. and my friends are organizing activities to support islamic restaurants that are going downhill in profits. that's where i was. lots of lit candles and flags [the flags aren't lit]. Tom - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:10:56 -0400 From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] Fw: MN The Light of the World (Pt. 2) "Eric R. Samuelsen" wrote: > >"It's going to be every bit the size of show that one would see at > >the kind of spectaculars of the Academy Awards and the Grammys." > > All that time. All that money. All that talent. All that technology. All those good, talented people working unbelievable hours. To produce a show . . . as good as the Grammys. Yippee. Dear AML List, Reports of my demise premature. Respectfully, Sarcasm [Tony Markham] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:32 EDT From: Paynecabin@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] The List and the WTC Whenever I look in on this discussion of Marianne's experience on the Sunday following the attack, I am reminded that her bishop, just like my bishop and everybody else's bishops, received a letter from the First Presidency specifically directing that the sacrament meetings of September sixteenth be made into memorial services for those affected by the tragedy. (I wish I had the letter in front of me. Maybe somebody on the list has it.) I asked my bishop mid-week if the prescribed adult lesson, Joseph F. Smith's teachings about the need for revelation, might be re-focused to emphasize our need for revelation in the current crisis. It seemed to him to be perfectly consistent with what the Prophet had asked for, and so it was done in both the Relief Society and the Elders Quorum. The elders shared bravely and fervently, and the Relief Society sisters were tearful and eloquent. I'm sure that there were many with us who, until that meeting, had felt untouched by the tragedy, or numb to it, or afraid to deal with it, but they weren't the drivers of the meetings. The Prophet was. And, consequently, the Spirit. Marvin Payne - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 23:17:18 +0000 From: "Richard Racer" Subject: [AML] B. Weston ROOK, _A Shadow From The Past_ (Review) A Shadow From The Past B. Weston Rook ISBN# 1-4010-0999-9 Xlibris. 2001. "A Shadow From The Past" felt to me like a romantic fantasy novel for guys. What guy hasn't been in love with a girl who just wanted to be friends? What teenage nerd didn't fantasize about learning Karate and becoming a secret agent and then turning the tables on the old schoolyard bullies? What guy hasn't wished he was a crime-fighting superhero who gets the girl in the end? I know I have. All of these scenarios sound like wild fantasy at first glance. Somehow Rook has managed to take all of these wild boyhood fantasies and blend them into a compelling, and amazingly believable, Story. The hero of the story is Randy Curtis. As a boy his self confidence was so bad that it prevented him from having any kind of a normal social life. He has a crush on Jamie, but his poor self confidence keeps him from telling her. It even keeps him from serving a mission. When he is 18, he leaves his hometown myseriously. Ten years later, Randy's mother is murdered and he comes back to town for the funeral. But Randy has been very busy while he was away. Now he has some new skills that make for some fun reading. When Randy starts trying to get to the bottom of his mother's death, he inadvertantly becomes a vigilante who stalks the streets at night. Smelling a good story, Jamie, who is now a newswoman, builds the vigilante into a superhero and calls him The Shadowman in the newspaper. Now Randy has a hard time keeping his night life a secret as he tries to start a romantic relationship with the girl he has always wanted, and who has no idea that he is the Shadowman. Add to this the drama of his childhood bully being a deputy now. There is nothing fully original in this story, but it is increadibly fun to read. It was all very visual and exciting. Rook's attention to detail and realism is what makes the fantastic story so utterly believable. Reading it almost felt like watching a movie. I've read it twice. Rich Racer _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:21:01 -0400 From: "Debra L. Brown" Subject: [AML] Fw: MN EFY Composer Releases Original Piano Book: Hicks Music Press= Release 19Sep01 US UT SLC A2 EFY Composer Releases Original Piano Book SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- The composer of the EFY Medley has released his latest piano book of original music to accompany his CD, Creations. Michael R. Hicks announced the completion of his Creations Piano Book just three weeks following the 2001 Pearl Awards, where his Creations CD was nominated for three awards, including Sacred/Inspirational Instrumental Song of the Year. Hicks says that he enjoys hearing other people play his music. "We have so many talented piano players in our culture, so I'm excited to finally have my songs available for others to play," Hicks said. Jon Schmidt, another piano recording artist, said that Hicks=ED new release was his best so far. "With this latest release ["Creations"], Michael has established himself firmly as a 'player' in the big league of instrumental music." Hicks' previous releases have all been arrangements of hymns. "I have enjoyed branching out beyond the realm of arranging hymns into the world of writing my own original music," Hicks said. In 1999, Hicks arranged As Sisters In Zion & We'll Bring the World His Truth for the EFY Program to teach all of its participants. "When we sang [The EFY Medley] on Thursday night, I was so overwhelmed with the Spirit," said Beth Deever, an EFY participant from Maryland. To Satisfy the Law, Hicks' first CD, was a collection of solo piano arrangements and medleys of sacred hymns and songs. To Satisfy the Law also included Hicks' original song, The Savior's Love, sung by John Canaan. Hicks' music is available to listen to online at http://www.michaelrhicks.com . ### Source: EFY Composer Releases Original Piano Book Hicks Music Press Release 19Sep01 A2 >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:22:09 -0400 From: "Debra L. Brown" Subject: [AML] Fw: MN Mormon-opoly Now Available: Mormon-opoly Press Release 10Sep01 US KS KC B4 Mormon-opoly: a wholesome family board game is now available PAOLA, KANSAS -- Luke Enterprises, Inc. has just released Mormon-opoly. Mormon-opoly is a wholesome family board game about the Mormon faith. The colorful game highlights Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon and modern day locations. The goal of the game is to build as many chapels and stake centers to build the kingdom of God. Players learn church history and scriptures while playing the game. Financial management, charity and tithing are also addressed. Additionally, players will encounter comical situations, such as "Missionaries come over for dinner, pay grocery bill of $75," and "You have won first place at the Ward Talent Show, collect $10 from each player." Mormon-opoly is great for family home evenings, and an enjoyable way to experience the Mormon faith. The game is available online at http://www.mormon-opoly.com. Major credit cards are accepted for on-line purchases. Mormon-opoly costs $29.95 plus $10.00 shipping and handling per game. Mormon-opoly can also be purchased by mail at: Luke Enterprises, Inc., c/o Mormon-opoly, PO Box 490, Gardner, KS 66030. Luke Enterprises, Inc. accepts money orders, cashier's checks and personal checks. Personal checks are held 5 to 7 days for bank clearance. Mormon-opoly is also available in various LDS bookstores and gift-shops throughout the United States. ### >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:53:00 -0700 From: kathy_f@juno.com Subject: Re: [AML] Nonfiction Manuscript Question LauraMaery and Tami, Thanks for your responses. I appreciate it! I did end up calling Deseret Book Pub direct and asked my question. The guidelines didn't exacty cover that particular thing. It's been so long since I have even looked at anything concerning publishing! I was a little shocked at how much I'd forgotten. It didn't help that my friend was using Word Perfect. Ugh. FWIW, DB said what I expected to hear -- that pagination should be done in proper manuscript format, with no other pagination. Kathy F. kathy_f@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:03:51 -0800 From: Stephen Carter Subject: [AML] Literary Expectations (was: Jennie HANSEN, _Chance Encounter_, Review) > >> At 08:55 PM 9/20/01 -0700, you wrote: Wouldn't it be >> >fun if the hapless lovers *didn't* get together at the end? >> >> No, it wouldn't--it would be horrible! It would violate the expectations >> of this particular writer's audience. It would be like writing a mystery >> at the end of which the detective says, "Jeez, I can't figure this out. I >> guess the murderer will just get off scot-free." Once a writer does >> something like that, a lot of people never trust the writer again. That's >> why I won't read Jude Devereaux or Barbara Delinsky or Nicholas whoever >who >> wrote Message in a Bottle. >> >> >> barbara hume >> > > >My views are different than Barbara's. I'm always delighted when something >unexpected happens in a writer's work, and anxiously look for the next book, >hoping I will once again be surprised. > >[Jeff Needle] > > This conversation reminds me of the time I took a class on Flannery O'Connor. I remember being very surprised by many of the story endings (i.e. wholesale slaughter at the end of "Good Man," the swiping of Hulga's artificial leg [I forget the name of the story]). But I realized later that the endings were an inevitable part of the story, no matter how much I did not expect it while I was reading it. It became evident that O'Connor wasn't just lifting rabbits out of hats to get a reaction. O'Connor certainly wrote within a particular genre (even if she practically created it), and her stringent adherence to the rules produced the surpise and the cartharsis naturally rather than having the surprise thrust upon it from without. I think this conversation hearkens back to the idea of what creates unity in a story. Barbara is right that surprise endings are wrong if they violate the unity of the work. I would have a harder time agreeing with her if she is saying that the expectations of the audience are the most important thing the writer should respond to. But I don't think she is saying that. Stephen Carter Fairbanks, Alaska - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:49:56 -0600 From: "Marianne Hales Harding" Subject: Re: [AML] The List and the WTC > >When they say "I didn't feel a personal loss." When they say "It's ok > >because no Mormons were killed." > >Really? Because you didn't say this in your original post. You Actually, they *were* but it was indeed a long post and easy to lose such little sentences :-) And I also used "seemed" a lot too. My use of "seemed" was a conscious choice to make some allowances for the possibility of my own misinterpretation of their actions. Thought I was being open in my word choice while still being true to how I felt. >I'm sorry if you felt I was attacking you personally. Oh I really was more surprised than upset at your post. (The "P.O'd" I referred to in the post was how I felt that day, not how I felt in regards to our discussion :-) We talk so big and rhetorically here on the list that I didn't feel personally attacked; I knew my post was a jumping off point for the other side of the argument. >Thanks for clarifying that. I would say, why didn't you speak up if >you>felt so strongly about it? which is, I think, a valid question--but >I've>been silent in irritating RS meetings far too many times to really ask >that>any way but rhetorically. Here you have to factor in my timid nature and my penchant for the written word over the spoken word. I hardly speak in RS unless I'm the teacher because 1)by the time I've crafted my response everyone has moved on to the next topic or 2)by the time I can get the teacher to notice me everyone has moved on to the next topic. Also, by the time we got to RS it was pretty clear that nobody wanted to talk about it and I was too upset to talk about what I said in my post without majorly offending my brothers and sisters. In a nutshell, I am both a wuss *and* a sap, which isn't necessarily a bad thing except for my poor husband has to hear me gripe a lot. :-) >I dislike confrontation. >No, actually I'm afraid of confrontation. This is a bad fear to have, >and>it's worse when it means staying silent in the face of evil or even >just>wrongheadedness. But I try too hard to maintain the dignity of the >other>person, even if I'm telling that person she's a blithering idiot who >ought>not express stupid opinions in public. (Sorry. I was thinking >about>someone I work with in the Primary.) And I end up, usually, not >saying>anything. I'm the same way with confrontation. I generally end up not saying anything until it really really bugs me and if that something could be said in writing then I am more likely to say something. I'm a letter-to-the-editor kind of woman, not an off-the-cuff-eloquent-rebuttal type. I do work my way up to individual confrontations, but I'm not likely to express my anger in a group situation. Many times my silence comes in the form of trying to figure out the other person's motives, but I must admit that there are many battles that I just chose not to fight. Also, when I'm in situations of authority I'm more likely to make my positions known even if it means confrontation. I don't avoid confrontations when I'm teaching etc., but I do avoid inflamatory language. When I'm just one person sitting in a class I'm less likely to be confrontational when the discussion goes a different way than I think it should. Man, I have rewritten this paragraph ten times trying to not sound like a pushover. Maybe that's evidence that I am, indeed, a pushover. I prefer to think of myself as a behind-the-scenes crusader for world change. Or perhaps a person who treats even the obnoxious people of the world with charity. Maybe it's best illustrated in how my chorister and I confront our differences of opinion on how fast the hymns should go. I've talked to him on several occasions about it but to no avail so I just play them the speed I want to play them and he sings them the speed he wants to sing them. The congregation follows me and he always ends before we do. Nobody says anything about it. To be truthful, I don't think many people even notice. Recently I've taken to singing loudly as I play and he is slowly but surely coming to my tempo. Mission accomplished (soon, anyhow). Ok, that doesn't really illustrate my point, but it does make me look like less of a pushover so I'm keeping it in. :-) I seem to remember a discussion on the list some years ago about the culture of non-confrontation in the women of the church. I think there's something to that. I also think that a little restraint is often a good thing. Still trying to figure out where that line is for me. Probably will be figuring for a while. Ah, just one more thing to be filled with angst about.... :-) Marianne Hales Harding _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:06:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: Re: [AML] The WTC and the Death of Irony and Satire When one says that "the age of irony" is over for now, that doesn't mean that humor will disappear. Laughter is, thank God, hard-wired into humanity and survives anything. But the peculiarly irreverent, mocking American strain of irony and satire of the last 30 years or so is in serious trouble, as Bill Maher of the TV show "Politically Incorrect" learned the hard way last week. This strain was pioneered by "Mad" magazine, spearheaded by the National Lampoon, made into the establishment itself by "Saturday Night Live" and David Letterman. It's going to be a very long time before we hear anyone make a "George-W.-Bush-is-a-dumb-guy" joke again. That may seem like a trivial, inconsequential thing, but read Paul Fussell's "Wartime" and John W. Dower's "War Without Mercy" to understand the coarsening effect war has on culture--how it obliterates subtle distinctions, makes skepticism seen like treason. An aside about the National Lampoon. When I was on my mission one day we went to help the ward mission leader move into his new house. The previous tenants had left behind a mess, including a cache of National Lampoon magazines. "Elders, don't look at those," he said. "They will drive away the Spirit." Latter-day Saints have always felt uncomfortable with irony and satire; this may be the real reason church-owned KSL-TV refuses to broadcast "Saturday Night Live", not concern over sexual content. For now, the national mood appears to be remarkably congruent with this discomfort. ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:04:54 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: [AML] Re: Literary Expectations (was: Jennie HANSEN, _Chance Encounter_ Review) At 01:31 PM 9/24/01 -0700, you wrote: >This raises an interesting question -- how many of us would distance >themselves from an author if he/she writes in a way not consistent with >previous books? This is why I think it's only fair for a writer to use different names for different types of writing. For example, I love reading Elizabeth Peters but can't stand to read Barbara Michaels, and they're the same person (Barbara Mertz). If I picked up an Elizabeth Peters and got the same creepy, dark stuff she writes under the other name, I'd lose my interest in Elizabeth Peters books. I used to enjoy Catherine Coulter historical romances, even though quite a few of her heroes were arrogant jerks (I enjoyed imagining staking them out on anthills, in the hot sun, ). Then I read one of her contemporaries, written under the same name, and it left me with a sick feeling. The hero's sister was murdered by the mob, and he wound up just leaving it unrevenged because the mob is too big to tackle. Yuck! Now I can't read her any more. Junk like that needs to be labeled "Women's fiction" which seems to mean something that starts out sort of like a romance but gets more depressing as it goes on and has a lot of disgusting language in it. >My views are different than Barbara's. I'm always delighted when something >unexpected happens in a writer's work, and anxiously look for the next book, >hoping I will once again be surprised. For me, it depends on why I'm reading the book. If it's a comfort read, I want it to do what I bought it for. If it's an intellectual quest, I want it to do something different and take me outside the box. I've had enough unpleasant surprises in life not to find myself having paid for one! BTW, Jeff, I always enjoy your reviews. barbara hume - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:21:08 -0600 From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: [AML] Re: Literary Expectations (was: Jennie HANSEN, _Chance Encounter_ Review) I finished reading John Grisham's: _A Painted House_ over the weekend. It was a total departure from his other novels, and I totally enjoyed it. In fact, I was starting to get a little bored with his books, and wonder if he was too. Roy Schmidt (whose only connection this post has with Mormon lit. is: I am a Mormon) - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:19:34 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Fw: MN The Light of the World (Pt. 1) Marianne Hales Harding wrote: > > > >Janet Swenson, Costume Designer > > > >Janet Swenson has been a professor of theater and media arts at > >Brigham Young University for the last 29 years. Nine of those years > >have also been spent as a costume designer for the Utah Shakespearean > >Festival and 15 of them as the resident designer at Sundance Theatre > >in Provo, Utah. In 1997, she received the Karl G. Maeser Award at BYU > >for her outstanding teaching, research and creativity. Swenson > >received her bachelor's degree in music from the University of Utah > >and a master's degree in music from BYU. > > > > If Janet is doing the costumes then you know they will be dazzling. She has > a talent for finding the most incredible fabrics ever! Janet costumed a production of my first play wa-a-a-a-y back in 1973. The play was about Ammon and Lamoni and she had the good sense to NOT make the costumes in the vein of Arnold Freiberg. Instead she took bits and pieces of cloth in earth tones and made robes from them that looked like animal skins. For its day, it was quite the trend setter in costuming for Mormon epics (the play was three and a half hours long, which makes it epic in stage time, if not in scope . Thom - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:37:30 -0600 From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] The List and the WTC Eric R. Samuelsen wrote: >Let me also very gently suggest one more thing. Afghanistan is a >very poor country, about seventy percent female, with many many war >orphans and starving refugees. We're at war, and must accept >collateral damage. At what point does the collateral damage >increase to the point that we cease to be morally superior to Bin >Laden? At what point does our justifiable need for justice become >bloodthirst and vengeance? (I know the question is a rhetorical one, but I can't help but try to answer it at some level, if only for my own benefit.) A difficult question, and one of the reasons that I cringe at what I see as a developing war hysteria in the US. War is almost always the wrong answer, in my opinion. While it may be justifiable, I don't believe it's the most correct answer in most cases. And I specifically don't believe it is in this case. A quick and sloppy answer might be that we felt completely justified in bombing civilian targets in both Germany and Japan during WWII, amounting to tens or hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties. Personally I don't think we've become nicer as a nation in the last 60 years (Vietnam does not speak to our credit in that arena), so I believe the threshold is very high once we've sufficiently dehumanized the enemy. In the case of Bin Laden and his hoard of faceless fanatics, I think that dehumanization has already reached critical mass, suggesting that our national threshold of acceptable collateral damage is pretty high, IMO. A more considered answer is that I don't know. I hope it's small. I hope we have learned not to dehumanize the alien among us, be they Arab or African or Asian or Caucasian or any other. I hope the little terrorisms I've read about against people of Arab descent in United States over the last two weeks have been the exceptional responses, not the emerging norm. I hope that in seeking justice we don't also seek revenge, and that our response is disproportionately respectful of human life. My personal answer is that I'm not sure I believe in acceptable collateral damage, and I'm not comfortable with the idea that anyone's life is easily disposable--no matter the justification. A couple of years ago I taught a gospel doctrine class on the Anti-Nephi-Lehies where I intentionally altered a scriptural reference talking about the number of converted in each of a series of Lamanite cities. In place of the Lamanite cities I substituted the names of Nazi concentration camps. Most people were puzzled by the first few names (Westerbork, Sachsenhausen, Neuengammer-Ring) but the last cities left no doubt: Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, Auschwitz. My intent was to suggest how hard it must have been for the Nephites to accept their enemies as their brothers despite the bloody--and justified--hate of their past. Most people got it. A few accused me of a lack of nuance and proportion. Maybe they were right, but that was the hammer that broke my own complacency. I stand by my point that to love your enemies is among the hardest things I can think of--especially when your hate has so powerful a justification as the senseless slaughter of the innocent. I met too many good people in postwar Germany to believe that all Germans were fanatic anti-Semites with no goodness in their souls. I interviewed too many quiet, respectful Japanese Americans who lost their property and their futures to fear but who refused to hate the nation that had imprisoned them to believe that all Japanese were suicidal maniacs with no honor or will of their own. I hope each of us knows good and honest people of Arab descent, and knows that the evil acts of a few men don't often define a whole people. As Mormons we should know better. As humans we should know better. And if we don't, we should take every chance we can to hear and to tell the stories of pain and suffering that anger brings, whether that anger is justified or not. To me, this is one of the many reasons that literature has the power to change the world, because it has the power to change the hearts of individuals. In the end, that is the world. Thank you all for your stories--be they in narrative, essay, or conversational form. Through your words I learn. And if even I can learn then there is still hope in the world. Scott Parkin - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:37:30 -0600 From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] The List and the WTC Eric R. Samuelsen wrote: >Still, why are we so reluctant to admit that his motives seem to be >genuinely religious? What I've read about him--and I'm certainly no >expert on any of this--is that he genuinely believes in a kind of >Islam that he sees as being desecrated, in part because the holy >places of Islam were desecrated in Jerusalem by the presence of >Israel and because the holy places of Islam in Saudi Arabia were >desecrated by American troops there during the Persian Gulf war. He >left Saudi Arabia, as I understand it, not because he wasn't going >to be powerful, but because he was genuinely disgusted by the >corruptness of the Saudi regime. And he detests America because of >our support of Israel, our armed intervention in the Gulf war, and >because of the encroaching values of Western pop culture. Certainly >he's an enemy and dangerous and certainly he's lunatic fringe within >Islam. But why question his religious motives? Why question his >sincerity? Couldn't he be as genuinely, sincerely religious, as, >say Richard Lionheart (speaking of terrorists)? To me this is the crux of a key point in how we interact with people who believe differently than we do--be that disagreement about religion, politics, art, literature, cuisine, music, sports team allegiance, or automobile preference. First, I don't question his religious motives per se. I didn't mean to suggest that I thought Bin Laden was dishonest when he says he's fighting about (for) his religion. Far from it, I believe that he believes that his cause is in fact about eliminating a great evil from the world. I see his motive as pretty straight-forward from his own viewpoint. What I question is whether the story that he tells himself about his motives is true, not whether it's honestly delivered. That was part of what I was trying to illustrate when I went down the list of the sources of power that he rejected--I wanted to show that he had found reasons to reject any source of power that didn't give him the kind of personal adoration that he enjoys now. He gave up more power in Saudi Arabia than he has gained in Afghanistan, in my opinion. If the purpose of acquiring power is to enable reform, then it would seem prudent to seek the most power possible in the places where it's already concentrated. It's nearly always easier to reform from within. But he wouldn't have found the personal adoration he sought in Saudi Arabia. So he came up with reasons (perhaps completely valid ones) to reject that forum for his gripes. And he came up with reasons (perhaps completely valid ones) to justify his decision to work against a fundamental tenet of Islam in killing innocents. In other words, through a completely reasonable series of steps he found ways to reject those things that didn't feed his inner hunger while still satisfying his higher mind that he had been forced to do what he has done. I suppose the crux of my comment is this: the stories we tell ourselves about our own motives may not be any more accurate than the stories we invent to explain other peoples' motives. We often put noble clothing on our own basest desires because otherwise we have to admit to error or corruption or sin. So I don't argue that Osama (Usama?) Bin Laden believes every word of his own press releases, and acts selflessly (and even heroically) to bring about the destruction of what he believes is a massive evil in the world and the establishment of the one and true Islamic faith. But I also believe that if it were possible to strip away all the justifications and come down to the kernel of pure truth at the base of his soul that he's chosen his beliefs because they justify his greatest personal desire: to be adored. Which in no way undermines the truths that he speaks or the honesty of that speech. But a fallacious argument doesn't become right simply because the arguer is really, really earnest and believes his own stories. No more than simplistic, overwrought morality tales become universal truths just because the author is really, really earnest in telling them. Of course I could be wrong. I am, after all, only telling the story that I've devised about someone else's true (if subconscious) motives. In so doing, I reveal more about how my own mind works than anything else, and probably succeed only in revealing my own desires as I project them onto others. I suppose that means that I doubt the truth of any story except as I interpret it. Which sounds suspiciously close to saying that the author's intent is irrelevant. Which is something that I've argued strongly against in the past. Uh oh. I hate it when I discover that at the core of my being I may believe differently than I've always thought I believed. Hmmm...I need to go away and think about this for a while. Scott Parkin - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 01:24:19 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] What's Wrong with Me Annette Lyon wrote: > When I first learned about the Japanese camps during WWII, I was horrified, > and couldn't understand how anyone calling themselves American could allow > that to happen. I have an inkling now. Isn't life marvelous? On the one hand, history can teach us: we can remember what we think of the treatment of Japanese-Americans back then, and use that to help us avoid falling into the same trap this time around. On the other hand, our feelings from now can help us look back on World War 2 days and be more understanding of that generation's reaction. Life gets you from all directions, if you're wise enough to recognize the lessons. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:27:16 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: [AML] RE: Religious Fundamentalism (was: The List and the WTC) Jacob wrote: >Think of how much >time we spend defending ourselves from the excesses of, say, Tom >Greene >(the polygamist) and how we want to be seen as the *only* valid >descendents of Joseph Smith. On my mission, I counted no fewer than >11 >off shoots from Joseph Smith of one form or another (some no larger >than >a single congregation). We don't take them seriously and, therefore, we >have a hard time considering bin Laden as a convicted Islam of genuine >devotion--we know that Islam means peace and that he represents only a >small splinter of the majority Islam belief and a splinter that is not >supported by the actual doctrine in the Koran. I think that deep down, >we deny the conviction of Tom Greene and equate bin Laden to him (or >vice versa). Excellent comment. In this regard, we should remember that some of our = splinters have also turned murderous. I was talking to my Mom about all = this, and she reminded me that her mother, my grandmother was once = proposed to by Joel Labaron. For those of you who don't remember the Labarons, they were a group of = homegrown Mormon/American terrorists, a polygamist group out of the = Mexican colonies, the most prominent of whom, Ervil, was connected to some = dozen or so murders, mostly of apostates (as he considered them.) My = grandmother had taught the children of family patriarch Dare Labaron (I = think I've got the spelling right), including, of course, Ervil. If = memory serves, their particular cult was called The Church of the Lamb of = God (nice, huh). Joel wasn't quite as murderous as his brother, but he = was lethal enough, and Grandma (who was widowed very young) had quite a = bad few weeks of it, trying to figure out just how to turn down his = marriage proposal without ticking him off too much. =20 Of course, one of the main nineteenth century preoccupations with us had = to do with our own putative terrorist wing, the Danites of fame and = legend. Indeed, that hoary classic of anti-Mormon melodrama, The Danites = of the High Sierras, perpetuated a Bin Ladenesque stereotype of Mormons. = Not to mention what Sherlock Holmes thought of us. =20 And of course, allegations of terrorist activity were not without = foundation, as some of our ancesters so amply proved at Mountain Meadows. Now, the Labarons were genuinely religious, however lethally nutso their = views may have been. (And the Labarons would make a great subject to write = about, I think, FWIW and BTW.) And of course most Mormons have almost = precisely the same relationship with the Labarons as most Moslems have to = Bin Laden. Which is to say,none at all. Still, we can see how a certain = rigid fundamentalism can turn frightening and fanatical. As one of the = kids in our ward's Primary program put it this past Sunday "In this life, = we can be weak, or we can be violent." Uh, valiant. Eric Samuelsen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #464 ******************************