From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #491 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Tuesday, October 23 2001 Volume 01 : Number 491 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:17:41 -0400 From: "robert lauer" Subject: [AML] Mormon Battalion Series (was: John D. Lee) >From: "Paris ANDERSON" > I've been >working on a series for boys about the march of the Mormon Battalion. > > >Paris Anderson > Paris, Would you care to share more about this series for boys? I had a similar idea a few years back, but was just too lazy to develope it. (I'm currently working on a book for boys on the Strippling Warriors.) Good luck on your series! I think there is a lot in LDS history that can be developed for this genre! ROB LAUER - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:20:43 -0600 From: "bob/bernice hughes" Subject: Re: [AML] Nobel Winner V.S. Naipaul >--- Dallas Robbins wrote: > > I would agree that the Nobel's choice for Naipaul is political, but > > >most of their recent choices have been political: Gunter Grass, > Seamus >Heaney, Jose Saragamo, Gao Xingjian, Dario Fo, Kenzaburo > Oe, etc... > >--- R.W. Rasband wrote: >Isn't it interesting, though, that few people not from their own nations >had heard of any of those choices before the award (except for >Grass),whereas Naipaul was already recognized as a giant. Seamus Heaney was well-known by those who follow contemporary poetry before the Nobel recognition. At a Sunstone Sypmosium in L.A. back about 10 or 12 years ago a paper was presented by Karen Marguerite Moloney about Heaney’s bog poems. Interesting poetry. And Moloney’s paper was several years before Heaney’s Nobel. Why would she present a paper about an unknown poet? I met Naipaul a year ago in a chance encounter. I was living at The Oriental in Bangkok, which hosts the annual SEA Write Awards. These are literary prizes awarded to writers in a dozen countries in Southeast Asia. Naipaul was the featured speaker. I’m sure I have his speech in some box; the gist of it was that an English degree today doesn’t come close to what it was when he went through Oxford half a century ago. He detailed how various required disciplines had been dropped over the years to the point that current Oxford graduates cover in four years what he had to cover in two. And of course he had two additional years of intensive study. (My degree is in Chinese, so I can’t comment on whether he had a good point or not. It was just entertaining to me.) Bob Hughes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:25:22 +0200 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Audience for Journals - ---Original Message From: Scott Parkin > Ours is one of the best documented generations in history. I can't > imagine that my great grandchildren will have any difficulty > reconstructing or understanding the broad daily contexts of my life. > More books about more subjects are being printed now than ever > before, so other than my personal observations and questions I see > little of lasting interest. > > So who are we writing these personal journals for? Ourselves? I know > that I like to go back and read the few journals I have kept, because > it validates that I have grown somewhat over the years. But I can do > that without the journals. Yeah. I've had all those thoughts, too. And frankly, I'm not much driven to journal writing because that's not how I work things out. I think I came on one reason that might direct journal writing, though. One that isn't as personal, or at least, that isn't so personally motivated. One way to look at a journal is as a way for your progeny to know what you were up to and how they can pick up where you left off--assuming that they have such a desire. Since you don't really know when you are going to die, a journal becomes a kind of bookmark that can let others know what you were doing, what was important to you, and what they can do to continue the things you considered important. You can make it a spiritual bookmark, a personal, business, writing, or whatever-you-want bookmark. This kind of view might even be motivating to an extent--"Do I have anything I want to go on, even if I don't?" This is my thought on why I think I'll continue writing a journal, anyway. Jacob Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:44:19 -0600 From: "Brown" Subject: [AML] Cedar Fort Publishing (was: Gideon Burton on _Left Behind_) Good thinking, Michael: > > Perhaps we need to take a page from Hollywood, and print some Gerald > Lund blockbusters that can finance the "best" manuscripts that may not > sell much, but should be in print. > That is exactly what we're trying to do. The ones that should be in print that don't sell very much are being "sneaked in" on the side. As I read about some of the oldies (Virginia Wolf, who had her own press, etc.) I don't feel so bad about doing this. It's a start. Just getting those new "blockbusters" is also very tricky! Send yours in--it may bust open everything! Marilyn - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 14:28:19 -0400 From: "robert lauer" Subject: [AML] Mormon Theatre (was: Joseph Smith as Character) Thom: Tell me more about this exclusively Mormon theatre that you and Scott are wanting to start. I'm now on the east coast, but I'd love to help in any way; I know that exclusively Mormon theatre can have a future. Any way, I've have 18 years experience as an Artistic Director who has "started up" several production companies. ROB LAUER - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 14:19:03 -0500 From: "REWIGHT" Subject: Re: [AML] Cedar Fort Publishing Hi Marilyn, Thanks for your response. I've looked at Cedar Fort and I'm impressed with the covers and with the marketing. However, I have seven children to feed. I can't afford to put up three thousand american dollars (almost five thousand Canadian). I need to make money, not lose it. There's no guarantee I would get my investment back even if I could come up with it. I don't enter contests that charge a readers fee either because I don't want to lose money on this. I pay for postage. If a company publishes my book, I will happily drive wherever that is to do promos. I want to do book signings and whatever else is involved. But the idea of paying out money to be published bothers me. I would have to be rejected by every other publishing company in the world and that would simply tell me that my work isn't good enough to publish anyway. Perhaps I'm making a mistake. I'm sure Cedar Fort makes money for it's authors. I just don't want to be the author that loses money. Anna Wight - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 12:57:31 -0500 From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Cedar Fort Publishing At 10:47 AM 10/19/01, Marilyn Brown wrote: >We charge new writers $2900 a book (doesn't cover costs). It >is called Author Participation Plan, and you have to be accepted by the >editing staff to do it. How does that differ in practice from "vanity publishing"? Does the author= =20 ever _receive_ any money? - -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam=85 God bless America! My home, sweet home. - -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:20:57 -0600 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: [AML] LABUTE, _The Shape of Things_ About Neil's play that is currently in production at the Promenade Theatre in New York, my friend, visiting this weekend from there, had this to say, "Yes, it's brilliant and fabulous and well acted and all that, but I want my money back. I think if Neil's going to use me as his therapist, he ought to pay me, not the other way around." scott - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 04:24:24 +0000 From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] re: Cedar Fort Publishing Thanks for the information on Cedar Fort, Marilyn, it was very useful in helping us understand the Mormon publishing world. I want to clarify somet hings, so correct me if I am wrong. Of the five imprints that CFI does, three publish fiction. Council Press basically is for books by Lee Nelson like the Storm Testament series. Salt Press is for books by you or ones that you have a close connection with. Bonneville Books is for all the rest of the fiction. Right? CFI certainly is putting out a lot of LDS fiction this year, rivaling Covenant in bulk. According to my last count, in 2001 Covenant has 14 new novels, CFI has 13, and Deseret has 8. One problem is that, based on my reading here at AML, I don't have a good sense of the quailty of the novels, because so few of them have been reviewed. Almost the only CFI books in the review archives are the ones by you, Lee Nelson, and Alan Mitchell. Covenant and Deseret, who provide free review copies through Jana, have tons of reviews in the archieves. Hasn't CFI done this? Could you ask someone in the publicity department to send review copies of the new books to Jana? Here are the 2001 novels published by Cedar Fort of which I am aware. From the covers, I'm not sure if some of them (by Byrd, Guymon, Turner, Johnson, and Turril) would fall under the rubric of "LDS fiction". Any comments? Bradshaw, Anne. Chamomile Winter. Bonneville. Sequel. Brown, Marilyn. The Macaroni Christmas Tree. Salt. Sequel to Christmas at the M&M. Brown, Marilyn. House on the Sound. Salt. Byrd, A. Dean. Walking in Winter. Bonneville. Man who suffered sexual abuse as a child. Daybell, Chad. One Foot in the Grave. Bonneville. Humor from a cemetary sexton. Guymon, Shannon. Never Let Go of Hope. Bonneville. Interracial adoption. Johnson, Heather. The Trevelyan Trap. Bonneville. Thriller. Leach, Frank. Mission Accomplished. Bonneville. Conversion from the POV of an investigator family, based on author's experiences. Nelson, Lee. Wasatch Savage. Council Press/CFI. Peck, Lisa J. Nauvoo Magic. Bonneville. Third volume of the Truth Seeker series. Randalls, Vickie Mason. Red Moon Rising. Out of Barren Ground, Vol. 1. Bonneville/CFI. Last days. Turner, Barbara. Treasure in Ghost Town. Bonneville. Adventure. Turrill, David. Bridge to Eden. Bonneville. Romance. Wright, Julie. To Catch a Falling Star. Bonnevile. YW conversion, romance novel. Also, what happened to the I Can Not Tell a Life book that you and Harlow raved about. Was that ever published? Andrew Hall Fukuoka, Japan _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:37:49 -0400 From: "robert lauer" Subject: Re: [AML] Speculative Lit (was: Gen. Conf. Music) Scott Parkin wrote: > >Does inclusion in the hymn book count as official canonization of >doctrine? I had never considered it as authoritative on doctrinal >matters. > [snip] My point was that the hymn actually contains very little speculation. It doesn't talk about day to day life on other planets. It doesn't seek to place Kolob in any particular point in space; etc. It actually does nothing more than give a VERY BROAD overview of LDS doctrine concerning the nature of matter, time and space. The repeated use of "there is no end to..." is based on scriptures in the D&C and PEARL OF GREAT PRICE. Is there anything in the hymn's lryics that are not found already in LDS scriptures? If there are, then certainly those things would fit my definition of speculative. But since, according to my current reading of the hymn, every idea is a rewording of theology clearly voiced in scriptures, I would place the hymn's concepts in the arena of official Church doctrine--not speculatin. (I can't say this is my opinion on everything in a book such as McConkie's MORMON DOCTRINE.) ROB LAUER - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:52:58 -0600 From: "Ethan Skarstedt" Subject: RE: [AML] Mormonism as Distinctive (was: Gen. Conf. Music) [MOD: I'd like to thank Ethan for the literary tie-in toward the end of this post. In talking about this question, let's make sure that we keep talking about the distinctiveness of Mormon doctrine affects the sort of literature we read and write.] Konnie Enos said: >So tell me, did I respond to the fluff or did I, at 16, actually grasp >some of this loopiness that you are talking about? I don't think you were responding to fluff. The idea that God is an actual person, someone whose hand we might eventually be able to shake or who might even one day give us a hug, is a bit of loopiness according to mainstream Christian thought. As a missionary in Salt Lake City I ran across a great deal of 'born-again/mainstream Christian' thought, directed at me as though it were intrinsically anti-mormon. They would say things like, 'If you believe that Jesus is your brother and an actual son of God, along with you, then you believe that Satan is your brother and Christ's brother too.' the last phrase being delivered with a great deal of emphasis. And then they would stare at me as though they had made a critical point to which I must respond or admit that they were right and I was wrong. Frustratingly enough for them, the only response I ever made was 'So. What's your point? I don't see a problem with that.' They would sputter and get mad and things would go downhill. The idea that God has a body and to go even further and say, "As man is now God once was and as God is now man may become." is even loopier, yet makes more sense to many of us than the idea that God is an amorphous non-thing that placed us here on Earth for his own amusement rather than our advancement. I think it will always make more sense to those that give serious thought to the matter. I would like to say, however, that I don't find anything wrong with responding to the fluff. Fluff brings a great many people into the church each year and keeps a great many more. There's nothing wrong with it. My objection is to offering only fluff and to hiding the non-fluff for fear of... of... appearing peculiar. We are destined to appear peculiar as a people, why not embrace it? We know that revealed doctrine will hang together, remain internally consistent and even, eventually, jive perfectly with 'scientific knowledge'... don't we? To jump back to the literary, I think it would be a good thing (on a church/missionary plane) for Mormon lit to fearlessly include the deeper doctrines when appropriate. Sure any anti-mormon who gets hold of it will point to it and say 'see their church is crazy and not true' but then, they do that anyway with our scriptures and 'Mormon Doctrine' and etc... But then there will also be people like Konnie who will pick it up and say, 'Hey, this makes sense, good sense. Do they really believe this?' and then do some research. =20 On a non-church/missionary plane I, personally, would really like to read some literature that deals with the kind of moral dilemmas and philosophical reasoning that we all deal with in our daily lives and talk about in Sunday School but are, for some reason prone to hide in our literature. I don't believe in Mormon protagonists that never think about the deeper things they know. Such characters will never ring true to me. - -Ethan Skarstedt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:51:02 -0600 From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: RE: [AML] Is LDS Film a Literary Concern? Following is a dump of genre considerations prompted by Gideon's question, with a vote on his film question at the end. This is a tough question, because at one level of argument, if films are included because of their narrative art, then songs should be included too because their lyrics are a literary art. For me as cofounder and managing editor of the AML's Irreantum magazine, I have decided that my own main areas of literary bias are the creative arts of fiction, memoir, film, and drama. The magazine also publishes poetry, but I don't personally read it beyond skimming during the proofing process. The magazine does not really cover songs, unless they directly relate to one of the big four genres (like the recent Brigham City CD or Orrin Hatch's songs cropping up in a film). Although a song in print is simply poetry, so maybe it does overlap. I am also not personally much interested in reading or publishing writing about scriptures or devotional/doctrinal stuff, except and unless the writing either treats those as memoirs or becomes memoir itself. (I pesonally don't think the AML should give an award in devotional literature, only in memoir.) I personally like the term memoir better than personal essay. Maybe the distinction that a book-length autobiographical story is called a memoir, while a collection of shorter pieces is called personal essays (the same distinction between novel and short stories). Nonfiction first-person writing about life experiences falls within Irreantum's perview, but I draw the line at biography, which we'll leave to the history folks, although one could argue that well-written biographies are simply third-person memoirs. (I'm confused by some AML award categories. Is short story given for a collection or just one story? I think it should be both. I have the same question about the personal essay category--collection or single piece? And there should be a memoir category for book-length autobiographical works. The distinction between memoir and autobiography, as I understand it, is that autobiography covers a whole life but memoir is a more focused time period, theme, or event.) Anyway, these are all important considerations. You should no more include all films than you should try to include all books, but I think you should include literary films that equal fiction and memoir on the book side, whether their screenplay is published or novelized separately or not. Chris Bigelow - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:33:44 -0600 From: "Ethan Skarstedt" Subject: RE: [AML] Mormonism as Distinctive [MOD: Again, let's keep a literary tie-in here...] So... after we do another 180 (360) turning back away from the loopiness (which you equate with understanding) and towards the fluff (which you equate with power), we're going to start seeing miracles accomplished by the power of the Gospel according to Hallmark but not understanding them? What are you saying Paris? I don't think I get it. - -Ethan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:41:54 -0600 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: [AML] Creating a Second, Unmoderated List [MOD: I think this idea deserves discussion, but I see some serious problems in addition to those listed below. Unless there's a strong outpouring of support for this idea, I don't think we're likely to go this way. I'm not trying to cut off discussion of this idea, but simply make it clear that this is not one of the proposals that's on the table for immediate implementation. I'll post separately with my personal opinions.] Ronn suggested creating a second, unmoderated list for AML discussion. I think this solution has some merit, but before we move forward with such a solution, I would like to have some discussion about the pros and cons of such a solution. For the sake of discussion, I will call the second list AL2. Pros: -- I can easily create the new list and have it running within a couple of days. I think that if we do create the list, that people should have to opt in rather than receiving automatic membership in AML-List and AL2. -- AL2 would provide an outlet for those members who want to have more lengthy discussions. It could also provide a forum to discuss issues only peripheral related to Mormon literature. I respect the opinions of many list members, and would often like to know what those individuals think about political or regional issues that the AML-List charter clearly labels off-topic. -- We could charter AL2 specifically for off-topic discussions. -- Subscribers to both lists can easily discern between the two lists by unique subject line tags [AML] or [AL2]. Cons: -- Some substantive discussions might appear only on AL2. Members that choose not to subscribe to AL2 would miss these discussions. -- We could end up with the same discussion, with the same subject line, running on both lists. -- Some individuals might choose to post a message to both lists. In which case, AL2 members would see the message immediately, and AML-List members would see the message delayed until the moderator approved the message. We could end up with AML-List having a delayed echo effect. By the time the message appeared on AML-List, the AL2 members might have already posted a flurry of messages and drifted into another. -- If AL2 gains popularity, list members might start posting there first and skipping AML-List. AML-List might end up housing only reposted Mormon news, reviews, and some stray conversation. At one point while the LDSF list had a flurry of posts, I noticed that many participants in the LDSF discussion seemed to move their attention away from AML-List. Admin Issues: -- I don't think the moderator should automatically use AL2 as an overflow buffer. Instead, the moderator sends a return message (possibly a generic rejection letter :-) to the poster. The message explains the option to resubmit the message to AL2. -- In no way do I think should we moderate the second list. Our esteemed moderator already has enough to do. We could elect a different moderator for AL2, but then we run the risk of moderator wars. "Well A let this message through after B rejected it." "How come, B always rejects my posts?" General questions: -- Would AL2 duplicate the function of some other list already out there. I know of several other LDS discussion groups, but I do not subscribe to any of them. Could we fill our need for off-topic discussion through an established forum? I recommend that we discuss these issues and then call for a vote. I volunteer to collect, count, and report the results of the votes. - -- Terry Jeffress | The secret of popular writing is never to | put more on a given page than the common AML Webmaster and | reader can lap off it with no strain AML-List Review Archivist | whatsoever on his habitually slack | attention. -- Ezra Pound - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #491 ******************************