From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #632 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Monday, March 4 2002 Volume 01 : Number 632 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:47:08 -0700 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: Re: [AML] Finnish Saunas Jim wrote: Whether Finns sauna together or seperately doesn't seem to really matter. Why should it? Why did I feel compelled to respond? Pretty simple: Accuracy. Anyone who knows me can tell you that I'm a stickler for accuracy, and hate watching wrong impressions become accepted as fact. Silly, maybe, but there you go. Annette Lyon - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:03:44 -0700 From: "Todd Petersen" Subject: Re: [AML] Terms for Gentile I like Michael's comments here. For one, I just (as in two nights ago) wrote a scene in my novel where a Jew is called a gentile, and he just laughs, saying, "I've been called a lot of things before, but never that." But Michael also asks what term we should use. Elder Ballard suggested "neighbors." I kind of like that. - -- Todd Robert Petersen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:23:35 -0700 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Subcontracting Art? - ---Original Message From: Jim Picht > There are works of sculpture, mostly on a titanic scale, that > are conceived by the putative sculptor but are executed by > engineers, construction workers, and artisans. It makes one > wonder who should get credit (I think we discussed this in > the thread on collaboration). I'm quite certain that I don't > consider William Shatner to be an author (or at least the > author of most of his books), nor do I consider that guy in > NY to be any kind of artist but con. I see a legitimate role > for ghost writers who help inexperienced writers deliver the > work they've conceived, but I think it dishonest to put a > name on a book as the author when that person has no role in > conceiving or writing the book. If a work of art would have > turned out the same (aside from the signature) had you not > been involved, then you shouldn't get any credit. That people > do tells me that we're not talking about art, but about > celebrity and marketing. Perhaps we can think of William > Shatner as a brand name, not an author. At the recent Writers' Conference, a guy who worked in Deseret Book's marketing department was asked what insight he could share with authors. He said an interesting thing that has colored my views on this exact issue. He said that the author should consider the power of their name and take it very seriously. He said that the author's name is their brand. If you look at the author as a brand, then you see some interesting implications. For one, like any other brand, it will benefit from careful management. As an author, you need to make sure that you not only have quality writing, but that your "brand" gets out there in the right connotations and with the right connections. Think of Steven King, Louis L'amour, or Robert Ludlum. Those are brands. People know what they are getting when they purchase that brand. If you consider the author as a kind of brand, then some of the stigma of ghost writing disappears. Some authors dilute their brand deliberately and openly. Robert Asprin has done this with his "Phule" series. I loved the first two, but you see that later books are written (ostensibly) with some other guy. Reading the newer books, I can't see *any* Robert Asprin in there anymore (at least, not in the first couple of chapters which is all I can stomach of them). Asprin is co-branding--lending the strength of his good name to boost another. Others (like V.C. Andrews or the Destroyer series) have become completely branded with any number of different (unattributed) writers. To me, as a consumer of books, I'm more interested that the brand mean something identifiable than I am that a specific author *actually* wrote everything themselves. If a favorite author decided to hire someone else to write their books, I'd *probably* be sad on a strictly emotional level, but I would still buy the books as long as the things I loved about the writing didn't change. Jacob Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:44:54 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: Re: [AML] _Angels in America_ on HBO? - --- Nan McCulloch wrote: > Yikes! I can't believe they are making a mini-series of _Angels in > America_. I found the play interesting (along with _Perestroika_), but > it > is not Mormon friendly. My main interest in the play was my curiosity > about > Kushner. Where is he coming from? It just makes you wonder what causes > someone to write that kind of stuff. > > Nan McCulloch > In a word: Harold Bloom. All of the ideas about Mormons in "Angels in America" are cribbed directly from Bloom's "The American Religion." Kushner is gifted at handling ideas; too bad there's not a recognizable LDS human being on stage during the entire play. Kushner apparently shares Bloom's opinion that a magnificent theology co-exists with a stunted, "staggeringly conservative and homogeneous" church membership. That bit of description comes from the "New York Times" in a sneering post-mortem on the Olympics: see http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/25/olympics/25UTAH.html?todaysheadlines That how much of New York *still* sees us. ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:43:16 -0700 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] _Angels in America_ on HBO? Nan McCulloch wrote: > Yikes! I can't believe they are making a mini-series of _Angels in > America_. I found the play interesting (along with _Perestroika_), but it > is not Mormon friendly. It is not friendly to mainstream Ensign-cover Mormons, granted. But to Mormon women addicted to prescription drugs and Mormon men who are closet homosexuals, the play is dead on. My main interest in the play was my curiosity about > Kushner. Where is he coming from? It just makes you wonder what causes > someone to write that kind of stuff. The Mormons are characters in the play. Kushner borrows some of our images (angels and gold-plates) but the play is basically about being homosexual in America. It is not fair to read into Kushner's work any attempt by him to downgrade Mormons as a whole or the Church as an institution. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:25:45 -0500 From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] Finnish Saunas At 06:35 PM 2/28/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Tying this more directly to literature, I'm planning on entering the >American-Scandinavian Foundation's translation contest in the next copule >of years--any suggestions about what to translate? A Finnish professor >suggested _Talvisota_ by Tuuri, the basis for the 1989 movie of the same >name. I was surprised that that hasn't been translated yet. > >rich >-- >\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett When I was in Finland (second time on Fullbright) I discussed translation with a representative of the American-Scandinavian (I "think" I'm in the right foundation) about transation publication but since I had finished the translation of _Nummisuutarit_ or as I called it _The Heath Cobblers_ and It had already had a production (as an MFA thesis production). They weren't interested. Anyway it was fun. I didn't relate to some of the Elder's hijinx to which you were related, but I think Pres. Mecham and I KNOW President Lewis were both Elders when I was in the field, so I suspect they had some idea of some of those things.=20 Having lived in Mission fields almost my entire married life I knew what wonderful things could be done by missionaries, but I also saw enough not-wonderful things that one of my ultimate aims, for years, was not be be a mission president. (I succeeded). I was blessed there in Finland almost without measure. My adopted daughter is (was, actually) a Finn. I got to work with almost every Actor and Director who had ever worked with _Nummissuutarit_ in Finland-- and that was a real bunch. I got to know almost everyone at the Kansallisteateri and the Aleksi Kiven Seura, and I spent two or three hours almost every Wednesday for about about six months with sister Helvi Temisava (no dots on these "a" either) who went through my translation paragraph by paragraph to validate the idea shift. She was one of the bright spirits in this world in spite of, or perhaps because of, severe physical handicaps My wife talks of going back to Finland all the time. Trust me, no one ever loved Finland more than we do. Richard B. Johnson Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Teacher, Director, Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important http://www.PuppenRich.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:57:15 EST From: Joyfulbee8@aol.com Subject: [AML] Re: Lime Jello and Cultural Imperialism I live in Southern California, and I had never heard of the lime Jello thing. The first I heard of it was when we went to Mexico to pick up our missionary. Within the first few hours he asked us about it, and we had no idea what he was talking about. I'm thinking it must be a Utah thing. I just joined the list, and plan on mostly just watching for awhile, but I had to jump on this one. I am a writer, and hope to be published before too many more years pass. Donna Gonzales - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:30:32 -0700 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: Re: [AML] Finnish Translation Project (was: Finnish Saunas) Rich Hammet wrote: I miss Finland. Tying this more directly to literature, I'm planning on entering the American-Scandinavian Foundation's translation contest in the next copule of years--any suggestions about what to translate? A Finnish professor suggested _Talvisota_ by Tuuri, the basis for the 1989 movie of the same name. I was surprised that that hasn't been translated yet. rich *** I miss Finland, too. I'm hoping to go back for the temple dedication. As for ideas for what to translate, you're asking the wrong person! I could ask one of my friends in Finland for ideas, but chances are a professor would know best. Is the one you mentioned Dr. Luthy by chance? Great guy and very knowledgable about Finnish literature--even if I am genetically biased as his daughter. :) Annette Lyon - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:39:34 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] SALON Sports Columist on Woody Paige and the Mormons "Salon" magazine sports columnist Allen Barra thinks Utahns overreacted to the "Denver Post" Woody Paige splenetic column on the Olympics. His piece, "Censorship and the massive Mormon marketing scheme" can be found at: http://www.salon.com/news/sports/col/barra/2002/02/27/utah/index.html ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:39:03 -0800 From: Jeff Needle Subject: [AML] Lael LITTKE, _Where the Creeks Meet_ (Review) Review ====== Title: Where the Creeks Meet Author: Lael Littke Publisher: Deseret Book Year Published: 1987 Number of Pages: 132 Binding: Hardback ISBN: 0-87579-092-5 Price: Not known Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle "Where the Creeks Meet" is yet another entry in the Mormon young-adult fiction market. Written for mid- to older-teens, it tells the story of two families whose lives cross in a remarkable, and notable, manner. The Lassiter family is moving from California to Blue Creek, a small town in Idaho. The move is prompted by their parents' desire to leave the California lifestyle and settle in a quieter place. The eldest child, Ashley, is most unhappy, because she's leaving behind her boyfriend, Richard. They are deeply in love (as deeply as high school students *can* be in love.) Soon Ashley becomes acquainted with the McFadden family. They are, to say the least, a *large* family -- nine children, with one more on the way. Ashley befriends the eldest daughter, LeeAnne, a troubled girl in a desperate search for her own identity. As a form of self-expression, she changes her name from time to time, trying to find one that fits better than LeeAnne McFadden. She is currently calling herself Racine Wisconsin! But the town of Blue Creek holds many secrets. Many years ago, a young man by the name of Gideon watched helplessly as his younger brother drowned in the rushing waters of a nearby river. Plagued with guilt, he blamed himself for his brothers' death, never coming to terms with the tragedy. Now, it is said, Gideon's ghost haunts Blue Creek. Can it be true? Can there really be a ghost living in the old house located "Where the Creeks Meet"? Is Gideon really a ghost, or is he a young man haunted by his past, unable to break free of the cycle of guilt and blame that has haunted his family for decades? All of the major players in this book are dealing with some aspect of their past. For Racine, caught in an endless cycle of new brothers and sisters, to Ashley, desperately wanting to be with her boyfriend, to Gideon, life presents a vexing question -- how do you deal with that part of life which is now gone, and cannot be re-played? Why must life be an endless cycle of loving, leaving and suffering? When Richard, Ashley's boyfriend from California, comes to visit, the story takes an interesting turn as Ashley must now decide whether to elope with her boyfriend or stay behind with her family. And with Richard's arrival, the other characters likewise find themselves facing their own pasts, their own follies. Author Littke does a fine job of playing the characters against each other. Each develops against each others' triumphs and failures. And each grows in wisdom and self-understanding. Missing from this book is the preachiness you expect from such works. There are only three hints of Mormonism -- mention of Mutual and Pioneer Day, and the size of the McFadden family. The word "Mormon" is never used; neither are churches and priesthood offices mentioned. This may have been most remarkable. Outward religion is virtually absent from the book. I wondered what was so Mormon about this book? I then realized that Littke was skillfully teaching the principles of the Gospel without ever calling them by their proper names. Vertical religion -- that which connects with God explicitly through prayer and repentance -- is not represented. Instead, horizontal religion -- connecting people through common suffering and celebrating -- this is the essence of "Where the Creeks Meet." Forgiveness and redemption, family and friendship, all play important roles in this book. Littke is a fine writer, about the task of telling a good story. Although the story-line is fairly predictable, the characters are well-drawn, situations are nicely played out. Young readers will enjoy this book if you can find a copy. It is a fine example, in my opinion, of how young adult fiction should be written. - -- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:19:17 -0700 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Third Phase That was a great discussion, Margaret and Darius! Very informative! Loved it! Marilyn Brown - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 03:59:34 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Finnish Saunas Paris Anderson wrote: > The great big important point that Mormons are missing is the spiritual > quality of the human body--whether naked or not. When I frist heard or > realized that I would be working on naked strangers in clinic I took the > thought to be rather tittilating. After the first day I realized it was > work--just plan work. There wasn't time to sit back and think--how > beautiful! There was barely enough time to think > (I just re-read the post. It doesn't make much sense. It made plenty enough sense. The important point in it, in my opinion, is the above excerpt: debunking the myth that nudity will always be titillating or lascivious. This myth is unsupportable, simply because so many people like Paris have proven otherwise from personal experience. In fact, it's my conviction that nudity is inherently not sexual, unless we choose to make it so. We are simply brainwashed our whole lives to make it so, because opportunities to experience nonsexual nudity are so rare in our society (artificially so) that we can't conceive otherwise. It doesn't take long for someone who experiences nudity in a nonsexual situation, as Paris learned, to discover "nude = sexual" is not a law of the universe. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 04:08:48 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Sugar Beet in SL City Weekly Christopher Bigelow wrote: > Bigelow and Petersen can thank God that they have no shortage of potential > material. But does Heavenly Father have a sense of humor? > > "I would like to think so, but I'm not sure," Bigelow said. "Maybe He's a > little envious of humans for having humor." Voltaire would disagree. According to him, it's humans who are humorless. ("God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.") I would tend to agree with him--to an extent. I don't think God is _primarily_ a comedian. He obviously has very serious business on the agenda. But I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find that one of the thoughts on God's mind, when contemplating his disciples, is, "Lighten up a little, will you?" I think a God who says, "Be of good cheer; I have overcome the world," is a God who has gifted us the room to relax and enjoy a little humor in life. What can possibly be that serious when God has already overcome all? It's not like Satan will actually prevail in the end. Let's just get the job done in the way Jesus insisted we do: with good cheer. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:25:45 -0700 From: Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Terms for Gentile >Since the admonishion to stop using terms like "non-Mormon" or >"non-member," I've been scratching my head wondering what term I should >use when I mean to say "people who are not Mormons." It's a valid >concept, and all language is supposed to do is provide tools for >communicating concepts. The Church Style Guide suggests using "members of other faiths" as a positive replacement. I think using "Gentile" should be revived, but it may be seen as confusing to those of other faiths. Marny Parkin - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:35:49 -0700 From: margaret young Subject: [AML] AML Conference [MOD: I'm going to split this into two posts for clarity of the discussion, with the second post including the review Margaret is forwarding.] It was so fun to see y'all at the conference--and wonderful to put faces with names. Especially great to meet the Tyners, who came all the way from Southern California. I thought the conference was excellent. Board members really do deserve congratulations. And I was thrilled that several AML members accepted the invitation to come to Genesis. I promised the Tyners I'd give them the review _Publishers Weekly_ did for _Bound for Canaan_, and thought I'd just post it on the list. As I told Lisa Tait, we are SO interested in getting south. If this review can interest any bookstores to sponsor us, that'd be great. February was crazy, but March is finally here and I'm still sane. Though I don't want to do as many events as we did in February, I really do want opportunities to share the stories of the black pioneers with members OUTSIDE Utah. July is the month I have blocked off as unavailable for any events. I'm expecting my first grandbaby in July and plan on going no where very far. [Margaret Young] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:35:49 -0700 From: margaret young Subject: [AML] YOUNG & GRAY, _Standing_ (Pub. Weekly Review) I promised the Tyners I'd give them the review _Publishers Weekly_ did for _Bound for Canaan_, and thought I'd just post it on the list. [snip] Here's the _PW_review: Feb 5, 2002: Bound for Canaan: Standing on the Promisse, Book 2 Margaret Blair Young and Darius Aidan Gray Deseret/Bookcraft $19.95 Just in time for Black History Month comes this second novel in a trilogy of historical fiction about black Mormon pioneers. The first book followed a few of the black converts who knew Joseph Smith personally, including Elijah Abel, who received the priesthood with Smith's knowledge and approval, and Jane Manning James, who lived as a family member in the Smith home. The second novel picks up their story for the Mormon trek west to the Salt Lake Valley under Brugham Young's leadership, and also chronicles the Civil War and the growing emigrations to California. The novel succeeds not only in opening a door on the early black Mormon experience, it also places that experience within the larger context of national race relations. Readers will get refresher courses on Dred Scott, Civil War politics, slave auctions, lynch mobs, blackface minstrelsy and more. One of the Mormon authors (Gray) is African-American, and his own ancestors figure in the novels. The story seems driven more by the historical record than by the need for a smooth plot, as evidenced by the detailed historical notes at the end of every chapter. Although these may distract readers seeking easy escapist fiction, they lend the novel weight and credibility. Given how little is known of early black converts to Mormonism and of their experiences living in Utah, this trilogy is a treasure. It is a badly needed history lesson coated with a layer of imagination--a combination that has proved enormously popular in the works of Gerald Lund. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:45:21 -0700 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Finnish Saunas I don't know much about Finnish saunas, but consider myself something of = an expert on Norwegian saunas, since I grew up with one in our home. When = my parents built their new home in Indiana, they put a sauna in it, and it = became a very favorite locus for MIA activities, ward socials and other = activities. I remember with great fondness several naked ward parties. Of = course, we segregated the sexes, flipping a coin over which gender got to = sweat first, but even so, it does something for ward morale when you can = say you've seen the bishop (or, I assume, RS President) naked. Best of = all, in the winter, you could go out after your sauna and roll in the snow = in your altogether, or even, if you were adventurous, slide down our snowy = hill in the buff. (And yes, we did learn that the young ladies in our MIA = snuck a peek at my brother and his best friend when they went naked sleigh = riding. We guys were, of course, far too classy to peek back.) This was back in Indiana. I suspect that our Utah ward would balk at it = if my wife and I tried to introduce a similar scheme today. But yes, I'm = a very big fan of naked ward parties. Leads to humility and a general = lack of stuffiness. Eric Samuelsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:54:37 -0700 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: Re: [AML] Subcontracting Art? On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 03:42:31PM -0600, pichtj@nsula.edu wrote: > I think one of the most interesting and ridiculous examples of ghosted or > subcontracted art I've heard of was the painter in NY who only signed his > canvases. He hired others to paint them, and at rather low wages. Everyone > knew it, and his paintings became quite expensive and trendy. I believe > the argument for it was that it was a logical conclusion to the workshops > of the old masters (there are a few Rembrandts out there that were only > lightly touched by Rembrandt, and Titian occasionally just did hands and > eyes and left the rest for his student/assistants). This guy (whose name I > saw no reason to remember) took it to an extreme. Mark Kostabi. Although he does put his name on numerous works painted by his hired artists, he ususally creates a prototype and then tells his artists that they can change the colors but not the content. - -- Terry L Jeffress | The secret of popular writing is never to put South Jordan, UT | more on a given page than the common reader can | lap off it with no strain whatsoever on his | habitually slack attention. -- Ezra Pound - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:06:41 -0800 (PST) From: Darlene Young Subject: [AML] AML Conference What a fabulous conference! As usual, I left feeling rejuvenated and just so happy to have found such a group of friends. I especially enjoyed John-Charles Duffy's paper about "Brigham City," Gideon Burton's thoughts on establishing a Mormon film criticism, and Gae Lyn Henderson's paper on Bennion's "Falling Towards Heaven." I was sad, however to have to miss the "Third Phase" discussion. (My poor baby really needed to be fed.) Could an attendee sum up what happened? I know the whole point to meeting in person was so that no one would have to type up all the ideas, but please have pity on us who couldn't be there. I understand it was exciting and enlightening. ===== Darlene Young __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:58:18 -0500 From: "robert lauer" Subject: Re: [AML] Finnish Saunas Concerning nudity, Paris Andersen wrote: >The great big important point that Mormons are missing is the spiritual >quality of the human body--whether naked or not. When I first heard or >realized that I would be working on naked strangers in clinic I took the >thought to be rather titillating. After the first day I realized it was >work--just plan work. There wasn't time to sit back and think--how >beautiful! There was barely enough time to think--how did that happen? >what >caused that? what's happening to that tissue that needs to be >counter-acted? >and how can that be done? It's work. > >But this is the point that's so important: After I was in clinic for a few >days and overwhelming sense of reverence came over me when I'd work on >people. I'd think, "This is Divinity. Just as the son of a king is >Royalty, this is Divinity--and I'm allowed to touch. It may not be The >Man, >Himself, but it's close." That's the great big important thing Mormons and >other Puritans miss when they talk about picking up after naked strangers, >or about trying to make them a little more comfortable. The D&C states that "the BODY and the spirit is the soul of man." In light of this and the blessings given in the Temple, I find it very funny that so many Saints are such prudes. I wonder how many of the faithful can relate to John Ashcroft's recent decision to drape (HIDE) the beautiful, classical-style statue of Justice, before which he conducts press conferences, because her breasts are exposed. This struck me as the thinking of a 13 year-old torn between the prudishness of a parochial school education and the out cry of a pubescent hormonal rush. Just the other day I was discussing with an LDS friend (who works in theatre) the subject of nudity in art. She suggested that because the body is holy, modesty should be a top priority. ( "Don't cast your pearls before swine.") But if that is a top priority, wouldn't we be heading in the direction of a Fundamentalist Islamic society wherein it could be argued that ALL of the body (especially the body of a woman) should be completely covered because it is so holy? I suppose my reasoning on the subject tends to follow these lines: The body is as much the soul as the spirit. (In fact, the spirit without the body is merely a ghost--to quote Ayn Rand.) Thus the body is also holy. (Christ's atonement was first to save the body from the corruption brought on by physical death.) The body has potential for deification. Deity does not hide its glory out of modesty. The glory of Deity is revealed and those to whom it is revealed are either worthy of the revelation and thus ennobled by it, or else they are unworthy and are consumed by it. Either result is dependent upon the condition of the individual, and God in His power abd glory is not restrained by the sinfulness--or potential sinfulness--of man. So, the beauty and holiness of man's body in art is not to be hidden because of the potential sinfulness of others. One of the most surprising books published by Deseret Books (under their Green Mountain label) is FROM EDEN TO ARMAGEDDON. This beautiful coffee-table book, containing excerpts form the Bible giving the LDS understanding of world history and prophetic expectations, is illustrated with lavish classical paintings from the past 800 years--and features, in all but a few, completely nude figures, both male and female. (When I gave the book as a Christmas present to some friends--a couple I once home taught--the said that the paintings made her very uncomfortable. She was very surprised when I pointed out that Deseret Books was the publisher and that I had purchased the volume at a Deseret Book Store.) I think because of our unique LDS theology, Mormon art could be much more pagan (Greco-Roman) than the boring, lifeless, industrial, poorly executed, passionless pap produced by contemporary Evangelical Christian artists. Unfortunately the latter is embraced not only by the institutional Church (where there could be some justification for it) but also by most individuals throughout LDS society. ROB. LAUER _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:15:54 -0500 From: "robert lauer" Subject: Re: [AML] Terms for Gentile Eroc Snider wrote: >I don't see much church-related Jell-O anymore, either. And this >topic reminded me of something else: All the articles about the >church from "outsiders" lately have mentioned the odd notion of us >calling non-Mormons "gentiles." But does anyone in the church >actually use this term anymore? Or do the non-Mormons just think we >do? This may be another thing that, like Jell-O, has become more >stereotype than truth. I sometimes refer to non-Mormon's as "Gentiles" because I think it is less insulting and EXCLUSIVE than the phrase "Non-members." (As in, "We belong to sometimes and you don't.") Odd thing is, most of the time I only use "Gentile" when talking to non-Mormons; since they already consider themselves "Gentiles" in relation to Jews, they don't think twice about it in relation to Mormons. (If they do, one can always explain the theological and scriptural basis for the term: Mormons believe they are either adopted or born into a tribe of Israel; that at baptism we become the literal children of Abraham.) When speaking with most Mormons I say "Non-member" because they tend to cringe at the word "Gentile." They don't seem to be aware that saying things like "She's a non-member" or "He's a non-member" in the presence of non-Mormons makes them feel even more excluded from the Church. ROB. LAUER _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:56:11 -0500 From: "robert lauer" Subject: Re: [AML] Cultural Imperialism Below are my thoughts on a recent post by HARLOW CLARK concerning an ealrier post of mine: HARLOW CLARK: >Perhaps not even every word of the Bible is the Word of God. Joseph Smith >wrote in margin of his Bible that the Song of Solomon is not inspired, >and said more than once that there were errors in the Bible. I am deeply >intrigued by the connection in II Nephi 29:4-6 between anti-Semitism, >ungodliness and refusing to accept additional scripture. The rest of the >chapter goes on to suggest that not accepting the words that God has >caused other cultures to write is just as bad. > ROB LAUER: I agree completely with your statement that "not even every word of the Bible is the Word of God." In fact, I know that the entire Bible is NOT the Word of God. I think a theme of II Nephi (and the Book of Mormon as a whole) is that the anti-Semitism of those who profess faith in Christ IS a sin. Concerning "the words that God has caused other cultures to write" is that one must first determine if the various scriptures of those cultures were INDEED inspired by God. This is something that must be determined by each indivdiuals through study and inspiration. Concerning my rejection Bhuddist and Islamic writing as true scripture, HARLOW CLARK wrote: > >I suppose a lot of LDS wouldn't [aacept these writings as scriptures.]. You >could say that if we did we'd be >Bhuddists or Muslims, but you could also say that depends on what the >phrase "divinely inspired" means. If it means 'dictated directly by God >or an angel' there's not much in this world that's divinely inspired. >Indeed, I've never heard anyone in General Conference claim their talk >was dictated to them, and I don't find very many passages in scripture >that claim to be direct dictation. ROB LAUER: I completely agree with your thoughts on how much of the scriptures are "dictated dierctly by God." I would say that virtually no scripture is divine dictation. Because of this, every scripture must be studied, pondered and examined in light of THE PRINCIPLES being presented. By virtue of the principles put forth in Buddhist and Islamic writings, I reject them as divinely inspired. HARLOW CLARK: >I can tell you about my own experience with inspiration, but there's no >guarantee that I was able to draw out into my writing all the >implications of the original inspiration. Here's the three opening >paragraphs of an essay called, > > I Have Come to the Whirlwind to Converse with the Father: > The Book of Job as a Ceremony of Irony > >It was in the 1977 AML Annual and is in AML-List archives 15 SEP 1997 >(Drop me a note if you'd like a copy). > ROB. LAUER: I'd love a copy. I found the opening paragraphs FASCINATING! Concerning my earlier comment on imposing our mordern notions of morality on the Book of Joshua, HARLOW CLARK wrote: >We don't have to impose our cultural understanding, all we have to do is >impose the ethical teachings found in the Pentateuch. ROB LAUER: But the Pentateuch also contains commandments that offend our Post-Enlightment morals. My point is that the morality of Pentateuch is NOT the morality of our era. Yes, there are many conceptual common denominators, but there are also many things which contradict our ethics. HARLOW CLARK: >Am I understanding you correctly, Rob? Are you really saying that the >culture which gave us the 10 Commandments--which deal with how to love >God and then how to love our neighbors individually, and the ethical >teachings in Deuteronomy, particularly such challenging teachings as the >year of Jubilee(?) in which all debts are forgiven, had not progressed >far enough in its thinking to understand its own teachings? Are you >really saying that a culture which gave us the idea of a city of refuge >for unintentional killers is inferior to a culture whose Supreme Court >has repeatedly upheld the execution of mentally retarded people, a >culture that aborts x.x-million babies a year? ROB. LAUER Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. One could rationally argue that the Supreme Court decision is a step backwards in our moral progress. The brutality of the Biblical cultures was just as much an offense to Western morality one hundred or two hundred years ago as it is today when abortions are legal. >"Neither is the man without the woman, neither is the woman without the >man in the Lord." That's a far cry from 20th century individualism. The >scriptures talk much more about community than about individualism. ROB LAUER: Yes, that scripture is a far-cry from Posyt Enlightment individualism. (As for 20th century individualism, given the philosophic evolution of the past century, I would have to label that term an oxymoron.) My understanding and acceptance of this scripture (attributed to the Apostle Paul) would be based completely on how it resonated with those things I KNOW to be true. (In other words, just because it's in the Bible or scriptural does not mean that I accepted it as completely true at face value.) In their totality, the scriptures do talk more about community than individualism; but progressively, when one looks at the scriptures chronologically, indivdiualism becomes moe dominant a theme--espcially when one considers the newest scriptures --those sections of the D&C given in the 1840's. Consider also Jospeh Smith's King Folliet Discourse--which I consider the greatest American sermon ever given by ANYONE, and the most recolutinary sermon given in the past 1,000 years. In this sermon, the philosophy and metaphysics put forth by Joseph completely disolve the foundation of all collectivist thought--thus it led to his murder. It also contradicts much of earlier scripture. In saying this, however, let me remind you of our ideas (expressed above) concerning the relation of scripture to inspirationa nd divine dictation. HARLOW CLARK' If >you take individualism far enough the logical (illogical? "Dear Bertrand >Russell, I am a solipsist, and I can't understand why everyone else is >not a solipsist, too.") end of individualism is solipsism. ROB LAUER: If individulaism make one a solipsist then one has not graps the metaphysics of existence itself. (And I consider Russell more of a collectivist.) Collectives are products of society' individuals are protects of nature/God. Collectives must be imposed or neogotiated; they are artifical. The individuals just is. The proof for this? At the close of my funeral, everyone gets to go their own way; I go into the ground. That's existence and there's no getting around it. HARLOW CLARK: The most >telling statement of modern individualism and its contradictions.. ROB LAUER: There are not contradiction in individualism: individuualism is a metaphysical fact. HARLOW CLARK: Individualism is >not possible without a community to be individual within. ROB LAUER: Can you prove it. This is the same reasoning as the old quetsion,"If no one is in the forest to hear a tree fall, does it still make noise?" Of course it does. To answer any of these questions one must go back to fundamentals. Is consciousness primary or is existence primary. I say that existence is primary. The individual is a fact of existence. A community is the creation of consciousness. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #632 ******************************