From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #850 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Thursday, October 3 2002 Volume 01 : Number 850 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:17:55 -0500 From: "Lisa Tait" Subject: Re: [AML] Sitcoms Eric, This is interesting. I've heard it before--why doesn't "the church" produce "clean" TV shows for the BYU channel (usually from the same people who want the church to start a private school system for their kids). But I'll confess, I've thought the idea might have some merit. Your comments about the scarcity of material really make sense. It's why I've all but stopped watching sitcoms in recent years. (Raymond is the only one we see very often.) So keep us "posted" (sorry for the pun). I can't be the only person interested to see what you come up with. I wish I had some ideas. Wait--here's one. I can see the recent convert asking, skeptically, "Didn't anyone's pioneer ancestor get baptized during the summer?" (All the ancestor convert stories I've heard, including my own family's, begin with somebody getting baptized in a freezing river in winter, and these things have a way of one-upping each other when told in groups.) And what about the crazy dating antics that go on at BYU--the "heart attacks" and other elaborate rituals that so much of the dating game centers around? You could build an entire episode on that one--or maybe a running gag. And maybe one of the characters could work at the MTC so you could show some of the characters that come through that revolving door. Okay, well, never mind. There's a reason I'm not a comedy writer. But do let us know, especially if you do get a pilot produced that we could see. I've seen the Student Filmmakers' feature on BYU TV a few times. Y'all must have a shot at something like that, at the very least. Lisa Tait - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 22:29:55 -0600 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Sitcoms >Susan M.: >Anyway, I know a television writer, and when I went to LA last month >was talking to him for a few minutes on the phone. Asked him about >what he had going on--it was the week everyone was pitching pilots >for next year's season, and he had a few he was pitching. He >mentioned that American Idol filmed in his building, and that no one >expected it to be such a big hit. We discussed how >television/Hollywood works--someone stumbles onto a successful >premise, and then everyone else rushes around trying to copy it. >Nothing original ever seems to happen by design. This has always been my beef with the way Hollywood thinks, in TV and to some extent in movies. A show comes along that's well-done and it becomes popular, and the TV people say, "Oh, people must want more shows like that!" And they rush out imitations. "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" scores, so they figure we want game shows. "Friends" is popular, so they think we want sitcoms about a gang of friends. "Survivor" is a hit, so they think we want reality shows. What they never seem to grasp is that what people want is GOOD shows. We don't care what the genre is. Even people who say they don't care for sitcoms would like one if it were funny. People who don't like heavy, hour-long dramas will change their minds if they see a good one. I think it is rare that the sudden success of a show indicates Americans were unconsciously craving for something of that genre. Eric D. Snider - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 01:16:56 -0700 From: JLTyner Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Publishing Options (was: Mormon Culture) Great points, Scott Can't quibble with what you other than to add that Paris Anderson has at least been covering The Mormon Battalion angle in Middle Reader/ YA fiction with his excellent series on "The Recollections Of Private Seth Jackson, etc." Guess we'll have to take the Jean Luc Picard model and "Make It So" if we want to see our own stories and other works published. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:57:16 +1000 From: "Covell, Jason" Subject: RE: [AML] Sitcoms > I was raised by television. I still watch it like it's my > surrogate mother. I saw most of the John Ritter sitcom. > Thought it was pretty boring, but you can never expect a show > to be as good or as bad as the pilot. (Pilots are always horrible.) I'd love to be a fly on the wall of Eric's class and see how all they all turn out (thanks once again, Eric, for hitting the Zeitgeist button with another lively dinner-party topic!) You're right - pilots are often, for one reason or another, horrible. Too much exposition, can't find their rhythm, or just want to get onto that nice happy formula treadmill. So here's a pop quiz to throw into the mix: what pilots do you remember as being particularly bad that went on to be quite good (or very good) in the series? For me, the number one would have to be _Northern Exposure_. It debuted a good year or two in Australia after it had become a cult hit in the States. Expectations were running pretty high, and I remember vividly getting together with some friends to watch the pilot episode. And I hated it. What a lumpy, poorly strung-together, mistimed, cues-out-of-whack mess it was. Hopelessly unfunny - the sense of timing was as good as the bada-boom-crash guy who always comes in halfway through the next gag. And I loathed the lead character and wished him a quick, unhappy death. But then I loved the show - so I can only assumed someone got fired or off the booze after that. What's your pick? Jason Covell ************************************************************************** This message is intended for the named addressee(s) only. It may be confidential. If you receive this message in error please notify us immediately by return mail and delete the message (and any attachments). Neither the NSW Department of Community Services nor the NSW Department of Ageing, Disability & Home Care are responsible for any changes to this message, or the consequences of any changes to this message. ************************************************************************** - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:56:33 -0500 From: "Preston" Subject: [AML] Campy New Film A couple weeks ago AML listers were bemoaning the absence of new campy feature films. This may be just what the doctor ordered. LDS filmmaker Joshua D. Smith wrote us to tell us about his new feature film "Zombie Campout", which premiers in a few weeks here in Texas before making going to other festivals... It has a great website, by the way, which is where the following info is from. A lot of you folks seem to think "Brigham City" is pretty cool. Or "God's Army." But you know why those movies didn't go to the next level? They had NO radioactive zombies! http://www.zombiecampout.com/ Two friends, Bunny (Misty Orman) and Steve (John M. Davis), plan a weekend camping trip to try to get their two close friends Tammy (Tiffany Black) and Trevor (Jeremy Schwab) together. They hit it off, stay up late, and watch the meteor shower, then enjoy a fun filled day on a boat. They have plans to attend a happenin' lake party that very evening with their new bikini clad friends, Lora (Alecia Peterman), Lizzy (Cheryl Dallas), Leslie (Danni Tkacs), and Pam (Stacy Heart). Things couldn't be better for the new couple, but they definately could get worse. Radioactive meteorites from the metoer shower that first night crashed into a nearby cemetery causing the dead to rise as flesh-eating zombies. Armed with only their wits and few camping supplies, can the attractive teens get out with their skin? Or will they become another midnight snack for the rapidly growing mass of zombies? This Zombie Campout will be one they'll never forget!! Joshua D. Smith Born in the college town of Provo, Utah, Joshua has spent most of his youth moving around the country, living on both coasts, and traveling the world at a young age. "Everyone I meet, when I tell them I've lived in Dallas, Miami, Los Angeles, and more, they always ask me if I was an ARMY brat," jokes Joshua. "The truth is, I just have very loving parents who've always wanted the best for me, and my family, and we were lucky enough to have an opportunity to live in different parts of the country." Early in his career Joshua developed as a stage actor performing in various small productions honing his acting ability. Receiving more than five awards for acting in his brief career, he turned down a small scholarship to private university, to pursue a pre-medical degree at Sam Houston State University. "After my first semester in college I knew quickly that medical school wasn't for me and I decided to transfer to UNT (the University of North Texas) to pursue my true passion." In only three more years he graduated with a degree in film. No novice to the filmmaking scene, this young award winning director/producer has taken on all kinds of responsibilities in this project, which he jovially refers to as his "baby." Not only did he write the screenplay, but he also produced, directed, acted, and worked in all other aspects of the production. "I'm out here to have fun and make a movie," says Joshua, "it's very important that everyone on the production has a great time, so I'm not one of those directors who feels he is too good to boom or slate the camera. Yeah, we have folks who can do that, but I want to get my hands dirty in this production." - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:25:49 -0500 From: "Preston" Subject: [AML] "Suddenly Unexpected" Press Release Press Release from M Potter Productions Press Release: Houston, Texas September 30, 2002 M Potter Productions is pleased to announce the beginning of principle photography on its upcoming feature length movie "Suddenly Unexpected". Filming will begin in Houston, Texas on October 7, 2002. The film will be released in the spring of 2003. Jerald Garner of Katy, Texas, and Michael Judd of Sandy Utah, will be playing the leads, Elder Jones and Elder Smith. Mr. Garner will be the first African American to play a lead in a Mormon Genre film. In a somewhat ironic and humorous twist, Mr. Garner is drawing on his early childhood experiences as a Jehovah Witness. He went door to door with other members of his faith. Although he is no longer active in that faith he can clearly recall the many experiences he had during that time. Jerald s stepfather is a Latter-day Saint and Jerald said he would talk with him for additional input to add further depth to his character. Michael Judd was cast for his ability to bring both humor and compassion to the character of Elder Smith. The two female leads are Clara Susan Morey II of Salt Lake and Junie Hoang of Houston. Ms. Morey is a veteran of numerous Utah theatrical productions and was most recently seen in the movie "Little Secrets" and also has a part in the movie "Charly". Ms. Hoang is a versatile actress based out of Houston. She has been in numerous independent films and television productions.. Benjamin Ellis of Orem, Utah also has been cast in a supporting role of Elder Sayers. Mr. Ellis was a host of the LDS show "Center Street". Also attached to this project is Tucker Dansie of Salt Lake City. Mr. Dansie, a Utah based filmmaker, will be the director of photography for "Suddenly Unexpected". PLOT: Mormon missionaries wake up to find themselves evicted from the house, where they had been renting a room from a now deceased widow. Unbeknownst to the Elders, the widows daughter has come to settle the estate, evict them and have an estate sale all in one day. The two missionaries awake to find people rummaging through their belongings asking Is this for sale? The day takes some twists and turns as Elder Jones and Elder Smith ride their bikes to pick up a Birthday package for Elder Smith. The elder s bikes are unfortunately backed over at the post office and they end up bumming a ride with an older but kindly man and his wacky dog, Batty. The Elders hope to return home quickly but their new friend has other plans. They are soon off going from one strange adventure to another. The elders wonder what on earth they have gotten themselves into but before the day is out their view of the old man and themselves changes. We live in world of sorrow and pain but all it takes is one person unafraid to make a difference. The Elders are surprised and delighted when they learn this lesson first hand. For additional information, you can check out their web site at www.suddenlyunexpected.com. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 23:41:39 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Feeding Your Inner Gnostic John Dewey Remy wrote: > At the same time, perhaps the "We" in "We don't believe that" needs to be > qualified. It may not be correct doctrine as interpreted by some, but this > doesn't change the fact that many run of the mill Mormons do believe this > (including at least one institute director and perhaps a number of his > students :^). Good point. My "we" was an institutional "we." "We" the official doctrine of the LDS church as defined byt eh set of standard works and official pronouncements of the First Presidency, do not believe that God resides on Kolob, but that Kolob is the nearest star (or planet--who knows?) to the throne of God. I personally speculate that God does not reside within this universe at all, because everywhere we look we see the same telestial laws of physics operating that we have on Earth. Therefore, when the Pearl of Great Price says that Kolob is nearest to the abode of God, I believe it means that Kolob is nearest to the interdimensional portal that connects this universe with the celestial realm. See, I can believe lots more interesting things than your institute director. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 00:15:58 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Publishing Options Thom Duncan wrote: > All I know now is that the agony has been worth the ectasy of seeing > this marvelous cast sing their hearts out and the appreciative audiences > clapping and crying and laughing. We're doing Mormon Theatre, by > cracky! There is finally a voice for the Mormon artist who's chosen > theatre as his/her medium of expression. My deepest congratulations to you and your colleagues. I've been holding up Richard Dutcher (perhaps ad nauseum in some people's minds) as a great example of someone who blazed a trail in an LDS genre that everyone was saying couldn't be done. I hope in a few months to be able to hold up the Nauvoo Theatrical Society as a new example of successful trail-blazing in another LDS genre: theater. > Did we cave into the Man or did we > instead make a business decision to do the occasional My Turn on Earth > so we can make enough money to do Heubner. Obviously, I think the > latter is the right decision. Isn't that the same business decision all theaters make that have to survive on their own finances? - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:07:24 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] _Charly_ (Film) (Review) > And then, twenty years from now, we'll have shelf after shelf of > empty-headed, false-hearted, and mediocre movies based on mediocre books and > lousy screenplays. If so, we will surely "reap the fruit," but it will be a > bitter fruit, the accurate expression of our culture's tastes and the shallow > thoughts in our Mormon brains. > > Feeling a little cynical today, Just to ease your cynicism today, isn't this pretty much the description of modern cinema period? Aren't most movies pretty crappy? What are there, maybe ten movies a year that are even worth watching? I think we pretty much reflect the world in our appreciation of the arts. We don't appreciate it. We prefer fluff. Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 00:21:40 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Movie Clean-up Commentary Ivan Angus Wolfe wrote: > > The sad thing is - for most films, a cleaned up version readily exists that > could easily be put on any DVD release with no hassle - the Airline versions. > Those are (usually) edited to a "general broadcaast TV" standard. > SO there is no extra work involved - and if the directors, etc. truly felt that > there was only one version and editing would have been bad, then they wouldn't > have allowed a airline version in the first place. The thought of having my artistic work edited makes me want to puke. Yet I also acknowledge the free market concept, that a market exists for it and the studios are morons for passing up such a ripe market. And the fact that these airline versions exist just shoots hell out of their sanctimonious artistic objections. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:21:17 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Movie Clean-up Commentary > Thom: > That being said, I still think it is the moviemakers right to make the > movie anyway he wants. But I did read > enough about the film ahead of time to know I would see this scene, and > made a concious decision to see it anyway. > > Me: > That's great. I agree. A moviemaker should be allowed to make a movie any > way he wants. What I want is to choose to see a movie edited. You want to > see it unedited. I think we should both be allowed to see a movie the way we > each feel comfortable. If I paid for it, why can't I do what I want with it, > and edit it to my preference? As long as I'm not going around showing it to > audiences, how does it hurt the artist for me to do this? I don't see a thing wrong with this. It's like if you own a book, you can cut the pages up and make confetti out of it. But what you can't do with a book is to go through black out all the bad words and sell it to someone else. But that's what CleanFlicks and their ilk are doing. It would be okay if the owner of the copyright did this or permitted it to be done, as they do for airline films but it is not all right in my opinion to do it to someone else's work. Scott Bronson directed My Turn on Earth at our theatre. He wanted to change some lines. He had to get permission to do this because it's a copyrighted work. The owners said it was okay so he made them. That's where the problem lies with what CleanFlicks is doing. > > Thom: > But nevertheless, if you wanted to do a film like that, I > believe you would have the right, just as I would have the right to > choose not to see it. > > Me: > I'm not arguing the right of the filmmaker or playwriter to create what they > want. I'm only arguing my right to do with it what I please after I've > purchased it. Fine. No problem with that. As long as you're not suggesting that films be cut and resold without the owner's permission, I have no problem with that. > Thom quoting me: > >Ultimately, if > >it comes down to a choice, I'll choose the better sex in my > >real life over the "full artistic expression" in a movie. But > >I'm hoping the edited movies are here to stay so I don't have > >to make that choice. > > Thom: > Why don't you want to make that choice? I personally wouldn't have it > any other way. The ability to make choices is also a god-given right, > and I'm not about to abdicate that right to some nameless committee in > Hollywood of Pleasant grove. > > Me: > I'm not abdicating my rights to a nameless committee. I can't even figure > out how you arrived at that idea. I don't want to have to choose between a > purity of mind and heart that I'm trying to achieve, and giving up movies > altogether. If I watch movies Hollywood's way, I give up any chance at that > purity -- for me, sex scenes very much affect me that way. I feel slimed and > my ability to feel/hear the Spirit is diminished. I can understand this, I suppose, even though they don't have that same affect with me. I am affected, or slimed, when I see gratuitous niceness or insipid comedy, or plot holes the size of Anna Nicole Smith's behind. My personal limit is based entirely on whether something is done well and creatively. If it's done poorly than I lose interest. > But I don't want to give up seeing movies. I love movies. I love stories. I > always have. I was saying that if Hollywood gets their way and causes the > demise of businesses that edit movies for content, I will have little choice > but to pass on most of Hollywood's offerings these days. Where in that am I > abdicating my right to a nameless committee? Hollywood will get their way unless the Copyright laws have changed since the last time I read them. You may to read more reviews ahead of time. BTW, this is one of the reasons I have chosen to never see American Pie or its sequel. I've read enough reviews of it to know that I don't want to see it. No one had to edit the film for me. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 00:52:48 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Publishing Options Brown wrote: > > Your "word of mouth" hasn't had its chance yet, Scott. At Cedar Fort and > Salt Press, we're doing what you are talking about. Also, Horizon is not > dead, but very healthy. And Cedar Fort gives new authors an opportunity > without breaking the publishing company. New authors pay about half. > However, Cedar Fort does publish some works (like Rachel's) without > requiring money. They do 24 unpaid projects a year. And YOU ARE RIGHT, the > books are not selling huge numbers of copies. And you are RIGHT, the Mormon > public doesn't know what its missing as long as we don't put any meaty stuff > out. So we're trying to do it! However, Signature does put "meaty" stuff out > and always has, and the sales aren't huge there, either. I feel your > frustration, but it seems even insiders (literary people, people in the > know) aren't paying any attention to the progress that is being made. Not paying attention, or don't know about it? One of the 22 immutable laws of marketing states that the quality of your product doesn't matter--only the marketing does (how else could McDonald's survive?) If good stuff is going on and nobody notices, it isn't being marketed well. Signature Books is an excellent example of this. They wouldn't know how to market fiction to save their soul. And surprise surprise--they're fiction doesn't sell. On the other hand, Covenant, for all the criticisms about it, definitely knows one thing--how to market books to the LDS audience. And they're fiction sells. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 03:37:06 -0600 From: "Scott Parkin" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Publishing Options Richard Dutcher wrote: > > Thanks for the good PR, Scott, but the truth of the matter is: because of > BRIGHAM CITY's financial failure, I'm having a bugger of a time trying to get > another film financed. I may be forced to direct SINGLES WARD 2 just to put > food on the table. I stand corrected, and I'm very, very sorry to hear that. I had understood that while BC was not a staggering success (and certainly not what you had hoped for) it was still successful enough to earn back the 2x of cost that put it into the "investor success" category and made you a good investment risk for future efforts. I don't recall where I got that impression, but I thought it was from you. Which underscores some of my concern. How could that film fail to do well--or at least well enough? Is it because of an unfortunate confluence of misdirected marketing and a long, slow fade in the economy that's kept dollars in people's pockets? Is it the ordinary difficult growing pains of a largely new and undefined Mormon art form? Was it simple name confusion? (The name confusion thing may seem odd, but a good friend of mine recently told me that was the only reason he hadn't seen the film--because he wasn't interested in a story filmed in Mapleton but alleged set in Brigham City. An odd response, but it stuck in his craw and wouldn't come out, so he skipped the film despite my nearly constant recommendations that he go see it.) Or is it because the boo-birds got it right and Mormons can't accept a difficult story whose resolution can be debated, whose "moral" can't be definitively offered in a pithy epigram? Is BC both too full of hope *and* too full of struggle, thus landing squarely between the known poles of the modern American (as well and Mormon) spectrum of taste? This is the kind of story I want to see more of; is there just no market for such things? I think there is, but I also think it's a market that needs to be developed quite a bit. I troll for discussions on whether we're telling enough of our true stories precisely in order to expand thought on stories like BC. But Mormon readers have been told (and have learned through their own reading experiences) that violent or difficult stories nearly always end up with morally ambiguous conclusions--or else with a clear statement that hope futile and faith is a waste of time. But there's a new kind of story that's neither cynical nor hopeless, yet still accepts that life is often full of struggle and difficulty and doubt. A story that is unflinching in depicting ugly experience but that still assumes both hope and possible redemption. A story that allows people to both seek and find grace despite an often treacherous path. One that neither mocks hope nor worships pain, but accepts both as very real and part of a whole and healthy experience. I'll stop now before this digression gets too far advanced. But the question remains--did BC fail to live up to its financial expectations because of a Mormon cultural inability to accept it? Can that be overcome? How? Or was it just identity confusion from a belated acceptance of _God's Army_ that set (Mormon) public expectation at the wrong place to accept a film that was so different in scope and tone from GA? Unfortunate timing and not quite enough exposure of your name as a trustworthy--and diverse--filmmaker? Obviously I hope it's more of the latter, because I believe the public is ready for stories that are both challenging and faithful, that embrace conflict but still assume hope as a good thing. A kind of story that modern Mormons are especially well-suited to offer. The only question that remains is whether we're willing to buy that kind of story, because in the end that's the only way to assure that more such stories will be offered. I hope so. My literary sanity very nearly depends on it, because I'm becoming increasingly weary of both the excess of easy cynicism and meaningless violence, and the excess of blind hope and insultingly simplified faith in fiction. I celebrate all stories, but I personally seek something quite different than the majority of what I'm seeing. Stories more like _Brigham City._ Scott Parkin - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:01:13 -0400 From: Bob Wicks Subject: Re: [AML] Loving _Brigham City_ Richard, Just thought you'd like to know... In a recent Sacrament Meeting talk I used the characters from as examples of devotional diversity within the LDS community. Afterwards several members of our branch rented the film. They loved it. BTY, two copies are currently available for rental from Movie Gallery right here in Oxford, Ohio. I, for one, will continue to spread the word about this fine film. Bob Miami of Ohio - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 04:02:34 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] AML 2002 Writers Conference The 4th Annual AML Writers Conference will be held Saturday, November 2, 2002, in the Thanksgiving Gardens Visitor Center at Thanksgiving Point in Lehi, Utah. For further information, check the website at: http://www.wwno.com/aml.htm If you are interested in doing a one-hour presentation on some aspect of LDS literature, film, music, or theater, please contact me at: dmichael@wwno.com Presenters are offered a half-price admission to the conference. Last year space filled up fast, so contact me as soon as possible. We may have to be selective. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:43:52 -0500 From: "Rose Green" Subject: re: [AML] Mormon Themes in National Market >Lisa Turner asked: > > >>What experience have any of you had with publishing stories, > >>essays, novels, etc. with Mormon themes outside the > >>Mormon market? This is the area I'm most interested in with regards to Mormon letters. I have a review that I'm planning to post of a recent book by Kimberly Heuston, but I've got to sort through some computer update problems first. However, in just the past year or so, I've seen several YA books by LDS authors show up on the new book shelf at my public library in Illinois. Heuston's _The Shakeress_ was published by Front Street and DOES have overtly LDS themes. Michael O. Tunnell's _Brothers in Valor_, by Holiday House, is about Helmut Huebner. Lois Thompson Bartholomew's _The White Dove_ was published by Houghton Mifflin ("a long time ago" sort of genre--not strictly fantasy, since there's no fantastical elements, and no explicit LDS themes). Then there's the one whose name slips my mind at the moment--I want to say that the author is a Turner Tingley or Tingley Turner or something, a BYU grad, and the book is about a daughter of Alfred the Great. And I'm sure there are others we don't know about. What matters is that first of all, it's a good story, and second, that any LDS elements are personal enough and substantiated enough to be believeable for the character. Even if a reader doesn't subscribe to LDS doctrine, if the character's motivations are well-supported, a reader can still be sympathetic within the bounds of the story. (Just as we can appreciate Chaim Potok's explicitly Jewishness without feeling like we have to believe in all the doctrines of being an Orthodox Jew.) I know we've had this discussion before, but I'd be interested if anyone could come up with any such books since then that fit into this classification. Rose Green _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:50:42 -0700 From: "dorothy" Subject: RE: [AML] _Charly_ (Film) (Review) I have to add to Richard's cynicism. I have a novel that earned a second place in Marilyn Brown's novel contest a couple of years ago that is now with an agent who is trying to get it into the national market. The agency has told me they consider it a fine piece of work. All the Mormon publishers have had an opportunity to publish it and all have rejected it, and guess what the common tenor of their reasoning was: It is TOO LITERARY for their readership. One Mormon publisher used those exact words. What does that say for the Mormon reader? Thanks for the opportunity to sound off. Dorothy W. Peterson http://www.lds-index.org dorothy@lds-index.org - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:05:46 -0400 From: "robert lauer" Subject: Re: [AML] _Charly_ (Film) (Review) I have to agree with Richard Dutcher's opinions about books and films such as CHARLY. He signed off on his post by writing that he was "feeling a little cynical today." I certainly understand those feelings. (I've been dealing with them since 1977.) Nevertheless, keep on fighting the good fight, Richard. BRIGHAM CITY, profitable in it's first release or not, now exists independent of you and will outlive you. It IS a VERY GOOD FILM--a VERY MORMON work of art! None of us may be able to "keep food on the table" by producing only Mormon art, but let us not lose faith in our vision--or lose sight of our accomplishments. Remember IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE did not find an audience until three decades after it was produced. The high quality of your work will speak to future audiences when they disocver it. All is well! ROB. LAUER _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:05:26 -0600 (MDT) From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Culture: Good & Bad > on 9/26/02 9:05 AM, David Hansen at hpalaw3@wasatch.com wrote: >=20 > > I'm not sure I was the one Ivan was directing his culture post, b= ut being a > > pessismistic cynic by nature (one of my worst faults), The only person I had in mind was myself, fro a period of about five = years ago where I found myself very, very cyncial. I'va already written on thi= s extensively (check the archives) but basically I found being cynical = about Mormondom didn't make me happy, and that I actually enjoyed being Mor= mon when I wasn't being cynical. So, the only person I had in mind when I wrote= that was myself. Jim Laird wrote: > Cynicism is about as evil as > one can get, and unless you're all fake and no real you can't reall= y be one. > The Unabomber is a cynic. Lenin and Stalin were cynics. There are= a few in > Baghdad right now, and quite a few in Europe--and some in Congress,= too. > Cynicism (in the modern sense) is not to be claimed lightly. If yo= u mean to > lay claim to Diogenes-style of cynicism (which I suppose would have= to be > the "real" cynicism) then it wouldn't be so bad, but you ought to > differentiate between then and now. Wandering through Athens with = a latern > looking for an honest man isn't quite the same as believing that si= nce > everyone is wicked, there's no point in trying to do anything good.= That's > the modern kind of cynic--pure pragmatic selfishness. Ugh. >=20 > Jim Wilson > aka the Laird Jim The old joke is that "an optomist will lend you money, a pessimeis wo= n't, and a cynic has." =20 I don't really buy your definition of cynicism because in general use= it still has what you listed as the old Greek meaning (which would also includ= e performing lewd acts in public, but I won't go there). Popular usage= of cynicism doesn't fit your extreme definition. Here's a dictionary definition: cyn=B7ic=20 n.=20 1. A person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness.= =20 2. A person whose outlook is scornfully and often habitually negative= .=20 3. Cynic: A member of a sect of ancient Greek philosophers who believ= ed virtue to be the only good and self-control to be the only means of achievin= g virtue.=20 I was cynical for a few years if you go by definitions 1 and 2. I do= n't see "evil, terrorist mastermind" in there. - --ivan wolfe - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:30:47 -0500 From: "kumiko" Subject: [AML] Re: [AML-Mag] Sitcoms I love the idea of BYU class(es) producing a narrative fiction TV series to possibly be shown on BYU-TV. Two of my favorite TV-viewing experiences recently were "Real World" starring BYU student Julie Stoffer and "Survivor" starring Utah's Neleh Dennis. But these shows were hampered by their overly frequent cutting away from Julie and Neleh to show less important, less interesting (non-LDS) characters. Even given obvious limits in terms of budget and the experience of the students putting it together, I'm sure there is a large audience that would love to see something like that. I certainly would. Les Charles and Glen Charles, two Latter-day Saint brothers from Las Vegas, created one of TV's most successful sitcoms: "Cheers." They also created the character of Frasier Crane, although they weren't directly responsible for creating the spinoff series. I'm certain that Samuelsen and his students can create something fun -- certainly better than the drek that is most of today's sitcoms. But may I ask why are trying to make a sitcom. Surely this is the most difficult type of TV show you could attempt to do. Wouldn't it be easier to try to create a drama? Preston Hunter - ---------- Eric Samuelsen wrote: >This semester, I've been teaching a class on sitcoms. Our goal is to write >and produce a pilot, and possibly a couple of episodes, of a new, LDS >oriented BYU television situation comedy, as a educational exercise. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #850 ******************************