From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #867 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Monday, October 21 2002 Volume 01 : Number 867 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:01:11 -0600 From: "Kelly Thompson" Subject: Re: [AML] Single Bishops No, June Oaks died some years after he was called as an apostle. =20 =20 - ----- Original Message ----- Wasn't Elder Oaks a widower when he was called to be an apostle? I seem t= o recall something about it, but can't remember for certain. Kathy Fowkes - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:44:02 -0600 From: "Mary Jane Jones" Subject: Re: [AML] Lee Benson on _Charly_ I'll react to these latest posts all at once.... Me-- "Personally, I found Lee's column uncharacteristically mean-spirited. He = took pot-shots at the film, at Utah culture and just had an overall nasty = tone." Greg-- Then why did I--about as True a Believing Mormon and as defensive a wet = blanket towards things even remotely negative about Mormonism as you will = encounter--laugh all the way through Benson's review? Me again-- Easy. Lots of comedy is mean-spirited and pretty darn hilarious. I never = said the article wasn't funny. I just thought it was a little nasty. =20 Russell Asplund-- I think you may need a bit thicker skin if Benson's article was that = offensive to you. Me-- The article didn't offend me. I thought it was mean-spirited. The two = feelings are not the same, in my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong. =20 Russell again-- Just because a film speaks to one segment of the population, or has a = great message, or high artistic ideals---or whatever other qualifiers you = might add--doesn't give it a free pass from criticism.=20 Me again-- I completely agree. If I agreed any more vehemently my nodding head would = fly off my shoulders. Criticism is a necessary and good thing. Here's = the thing about Benson's article, though. It didn't feel to me like a = critique of the film - it felt like he was trying to get a laugh at the = film's expense. It also felt like he was reacting to the IDEA of the = movie, and not the movie itself. You couldn't tell from the article if = he'd actually seen the film (although as a responsible journalist I'm sure = he had). There were plenty of other negative (yet meaningful) critiques = of the movie from film reviewers, none of which felt mean or nasty. And = so they haven't gotten the same response. Obviously, this film is not for everyone. Of course there are going to be = people who hate it. And there are going to be people who love it. No one = is denying any one else the right to love or hate this film. But is it = fair to let only one side take the mic? No way! Let's keep the debate = going!=20 Russell - (It's not the Benson is criticizing a film that's worthy of writing a = letter about, it's that he's criticizing a _Mormon_film. How dare he. And = in a Mormon paper, no less.)=20 Me -=20 Not at all. If there had been a similar article in the Tribune I would = have reacted the same way. Had it been a project I was this close to and = familar with that had nothing to do with Mormonisn I would have reacted = the same way. By the same token, I wonder how many who are reacting negatively to Charly = are reacting to the IDEA of the movie more than the movie itself. I was = guilty of this. I groaned louder than all of you (including Lee Benson) = when I first learned that this project was in the works (and that I might = have to work on it!). But I feel much differently now, having experienced = the final version of the film for myself. This film has merits. The = filmmakers did a professional job at adapting the source material and by = all counts they've improved on it. Some of the acting is exceptional. It = is a sweet story, unoriginal perhaps, but very sincere. The directing and = photography is all very good, as are the rest of the production values. = That may not be enough to get some people over the fact that a book they = disliked has been made into a film, but I'll shout it as loud as I can in = an attempt to change their mind (at least enough for them to actually = watch the film). Scott Parkin-- When the film's promoters push it as *the* pinnacle of moral storytelling = or *the* template for Mormon cinema or *the* ultimate expression of Mormon hope or the = Mormon mind some viewers feel judged and dismissed and pushed to the = margins of "real" Mormon culture. They feel rejected because they were not = touched in the same way as others were. =20 Me-- I hope, I hope, I hope that no one has seen any marketing for this movie = touting it as the end-all, be-all of Mormon filmmaking. I do hope that = the marketing of the film intrigues people enough that they want to see = the film. That means the marketing was effective. Effective marketing, = however, is quite different from prounouncing any film *the* pinnacle of = LDS filmmaking. I think it is the goal of everyone involved in this = fledgling industry to help each other along and keep making better and = better films. Anyone claiming to have reached the pinnacle is clearly in = need of a reality check. We still have a long, long ways to go, and to be = honest, I hope we never get there. I hope we are always, always improving = the craft. I hated Titanic. But millions of people disagreed with my opinion of that = film. (I know it's not a great comparison, but...) I didn't feel rejected = by the culture that loved that movie. Because I knew there was art out = there that DID speak to me, and I knew there were people who agreed with = my opinion. That's why it's important for this industry to have its = Charlys and to have its Brigham Citys. Both are valid expressions of the = culture, and I don't think either one is claiming to have cornered the = market. We are a diverse people and we have many voices. Every voice is = important, and every voice has a right to be heard. Last year I was = arguing for Brigham City's right to be heard. This year I'm arguing for = Charly's. Next year I hope to be arguing for a completely new and = different voice. Whew. This is more than I've ever written in all my other AML posts = combined, which means it's time to stop. Thanks for hanging in there with = me... Mary Jane - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 02:05:34 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Single Bishops Jerry Tyner wrote: > In "Brigham City" both the wife and his child was killed so he (the Bishop) did not have any children to care for after he came out of his coma. As hard as it is there is potentially a reason for people to be left in these positions and at some point I'm sure the Stake President would council the Bishop to start looking for a wife. "Brigham City 2"? - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:05:56 -0600 From: "Paris Anderson" Subject: Re: [AML] Diversity in Mormon Literature Niel Aitken wrote: > 1) Where are the writings of faithful Mormons of other ethnicities and > cultures? Where is the literature of those converted to the faith? For the > most part Mormon Literature as it is presently documented reflects the > culture, tradition, and experience of those of pioneer stock and pedigreed > names. Answer: We've been waiting for you. Mormons tend to tell the same old stories, because that's all they learn. Sometimes a writer comes along who tells the same old story in a new way, but most of the time were stuck eating our own vomit--over and over. You, one the other hand, have something new to say. You have new stories. You understand what it feels like to walk in the Way of Heaven. We need to learn, so come on man--we're waiting. Yeah, it frustrating. It's impossible for anyone to get published. But someday an opportunity will come--or you'll figure out how to create one. Be ready. Paris Anderson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:17:47 -0600 (MDT) From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: RE: [AML] I'll Build you a Rainbow > Many people I know were significantly moved by the song "I'll Build You A > Rainbow" in seminary. I still think it was manipulative. The fact that it > succeeded in manipulating many people did not make it any more palatable to > me. > Russell Asplund I took a songwriting class from Ron Simpson, the man who was in charge of buying that song for the church. Ron is a professional who has years of experience in mainstream music circles (such as Nashvilel and LA), so he is hardly the type of man to give into maudlin sentimentality. He knows what makes a good song. He said that he and his partner (I forget the name) knew that "I'll build you a Rainbow" failed nearly every requirement for a good song. After it was pitched to them, he had a dozen reasons in his head for why it was a lousy song and why the church shouldn't buy it. His partner did as well. But before they said anything to the guy pitching it to them, he and his partner looked at each other, and they both had tears in their eyes. His lesson - "Sometimes, even if your intellect tells you its a lousy song - if it works, it works." - --Ivan Wolfe - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:29:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Fred C Pinnegar Subject: RE: [AML] Single Bishops In connection with the posts on single bishops, I was going to talk about my brother, Ken Pinnegar, who was released last month as a bishop in LA, but it looks like the Tyners have already covered the ground. We in the family assumed that marriage was a general (but not absolute) requirement for bishops, and we were astounded that his release took so long--and I don't think the problem was simply delays in getting approval for his replacement. You can well imagine what a year he has had. By the way, Lt Edwards of the Orem Police Dept, doesn't seem to feel any conflict of interest in his stake presidency calling. In fact, his high calling often helps perps "come to Jesus" in the interrogation room. However, my father tells me that local LDS law enforcement professionals were offended in his area when they were not allowed to participate in security arrangements when the Prophet visited. Conflict of interest, apparently. Regards Fred Pinnegar - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:06:24 -0700 From: harlowclark@juno.com Subject: [AML] Utah Names on Radio West Radio West, KUER 90.1 (www.kuer.org) is doing a piece today on Utah Baby Names, to kick off their Fall Fund raiser. They've compiled a book called _Raising LaVon_ (or is that spelled LaVaughan?) with Pat Bagley illustrations, to use as a thank you gift. The show will be rebroadcast at 7:00 tonight. "Caden, Braden and Jaden are all popular Utah names just now," a caller just said. We have all three in our ward. But there still aren't too many . . ., uh, what was that long-winded guy's name who sometimes goes by Hollow Cluck? ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:37:07 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Eric SAMUELSEN, _Peculiarities_ Peculiarities only plays this weekend and next, closing Oct. 26. Eric Samuelsen >>> jltyner@postoffice.pacbell.net 10/15/02 05:48PM >>> Well, as I have said before, I am always interested in Mormons and Sex, even some of the weird stuff. If I'm out that way, I'd love to see it. = How long will it be playing? It sounds fascinating to me too. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:53:33 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Culture: Good & Bad At 03:07 PM 10/15/02 -0600, you wrote: >The sf paperbacks, especially, have back covers that >are every bit as lurid as the fronts (though I was able to successfully read >a couple of Orson Scott Card's paperbacks anyway; when asked I reminded >folks that Card is Mormon). Just try reading a romance novel in church. barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:03:55 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: RE: [AML] Single Bishops At 02:22 PM 10/15/02 -0700, you wrote: >. Am I wrong to think that bishops must be > > married? The discussion on this topic has been interesting. It was not a major issue in the movie -- indeed, I didn't even think about it until later. The character's pain at his loss was a part of who he was, and it certainly didn't make him less qualified to serve his people. BTW, in 32 years as a member of this church, I've never heard a satisfactory reason why a bishop has to be married. (If the answer is in the D&C or something, you may well chide me for not having read it better in all these years, but the BoM and the Bible are way more interesting.) The Catholics want their leaders to be single. I'm wondering if these are cultural things added to a church's concept of the Gospel. But I can't think of a way to make this question not OT, since it doesn't relate at all to Richard's film. barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:26:14 -0400 From: Tony Markham Subject: [AML] Starship Mormons [MOD: I'm allowing Tony's comment on his own political feelings in passing, here, in the context of a post that is primarily about a literary topic. But I *really* don't want to get into a discussion of peace v. war on this list, so any responses, please focus on the literary dimension.] The other day I was in the library when a nicely-printed graphic novel caught my eye: a Starship Troopers adaptation based on the Verhoeven movie based on the Heinlein novel. Now, Starship Troopers has been a favorite topic of discussion between my wife and me for years. I maintain that the film is self-consciously fascistic. The SS-like costumes, the swastika-like federation symbol, the violence done to the vulva-like queen--all were making a statement about our own testosterone-driven society, making fun of it in a dark way. And she agrees with me, but hardly any of our friends can see the self-critical nature of the movie and generally dismiss it as mere gore and coagulated bug juice. So I checked it out and brought it home as a joke. It was successful, the mere sight of this slick comic book made her laugh long and hard. But then an unexpected treasure! One of the stories in this comic began with a lengthy quotation from Joseph Smith, and the whole story was about a colony of Mormons who settled on a planet inside the quarantined area and they all get eaten by these giant bugs. The Smith quotation: "How will the serpent ever lose its venom, while the servants of God possess the same disposition and continue to make war on it? Men must become harmless before the brute creation, and when men lose their vicious dispositions and cease to destroy the animal race, the lion and the lamb can dwell together." The story tells how the Mormon high school kids had to take a federation-sponsored class in History and Moral Philosophy before they could get accepted to an accredited college (a cool inversion on seminary). A one-armed veteran of the bug wars taught the class and explained to these peace-loving Mormons that sometimes you just had to kill bugs. Of course the horrific climax occurs when the colonists gather into the temple for refuge and are slaughtered by the monstrous aliens. It was all very timely for me. I was feeling so good after General Conference that my church, who for years has seemed attached at the hip to Republicanism, had the moral fiber to stand and declare for the side of peace. Somebody had the courage to say that war was a moral issue and fit to be discussed from the pulpit. I was feeling part of the Mormon Mainstream again, and was happy to be included among its members. Then I hear these rumors that the church is back-tracking, playing kiss and make up with the war-mongers. I'm outside the loop, mostly, but can this be true? Have the bugs broken through the temple? Is this a case of when a GA speaks in GC it's the same as scripture, unless it could be interpreted as being anti-war-mongering? I'm all depressed about my church again. Anyway, the graphic novel is published by Dark Horse, ISBN 1-56971-314-6 (1998) Tony Markham - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:30:59 -0600 From: katie@aros.net Subject: Re: [AML] Diversity in Mormon Literature Quoting "Aitken, Neil" : > 1) Where are the writings of faithful Mormons of other ethnicities and > cultures? Where is the literature of those converted to the faith? For the > most part Mormon Literature as it is presently documented reflects the > culture, tradition, and experience of those of pioneer stock and pedigreed > names. While their voices are important, it raises a question as to whether > the net is being thrown too close to the shore, or are there simply no > Mormon writers of other backgrounds presently writing? > There are a couple of British LDS novelists out there who I know of. One, Anne Bradshaw, has written a couple of LDS novels set in the 1960's in the British Isles. There's a character who gets involved in the IRA and it gets pretty interesting. The other, Anna Jones, has written a couple of books set in her native Wales, although the book I read really could have been set anywhere. I believe there may be another one or two publishing with Covenant at this point. And, if the Deep South counts as multicultural, Betsy Brannon Green has written a few LDS novels set there. She comes from there as well. This is more than we've had in the past. Although there are still a lot of cultures we aren't hearing from, more and more novels are being set outside of Utah. Eventually, I hope, we'll have literature from all parts of the world. - --Katie Parker - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:55:22 -0500 From: "webmaster" Subject: [AML] Re: Diversity in Mormon Literature >Where is the literature of those converted to the faith? Many of the best-selling and/or most talented Latter-day Saint authors are converts from other religious backgrounds, including Chris Heimerdinger, Thom Duncan, Ann Perry, Thom Duncan, David Doering, Kathryn H. Kidd, Linda Hoffman Kimball, Neil LaBute, Lee Martin, K. L. Morgan, Michael McNulty, Dave Wolverton/Dave Farland, Eliza R. Snow. Among these people are, let's see... [Preston Hunter] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #867 ******************************