From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #874 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Monday, October 28 2002 Volume 01 : Number 874 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:31:16 -0600 From: "Janelle Higbee" Subject: [AML] Re: Single Bishops - -----Original Message----- Jacob Proffitt: "the married person...has a wider opportunity to challenge pre-conceived no= tions--is forced into uncomfortable consideration and self-examination th= at can be avoided by non-married people. A married person confronts a tru= ly alien perspective as a matter of course." As a single woman over the age of 30, I submit (and testify) that an unmarr= ied Mormon confronts an alien perspective when dealing with married peopl= e every day. Especially when dealing with married Mormons. Believe you m= e, there is no shortage of my opportunity to challenge pre-conceived noti= ons. It is such stuff as dramatic conflicts are made on. Janelle Higbee - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:17:07 -0600 From: katie@aros.net Subject: Re: [AML] Sealings Quoting Robert Slaven : Robert Slaven: > ObLiteraryTie-In: A novel about a person (girl?) whose abusive member > father > dies, whose nice mother remarries a nice man, and how the girl reconciles > her > hatred for her father's actions and her growing respect and love for her > stepfather with the fact that she's sealed to dad and not stepdad. And how > she grows into nonetheless having a love and forgiveness for her father, and > loving being part of a family with her stepfather, and realising that > worrying > about who she's sealed to (who she "belongs" to) is a bogus worry. This is actually how the Stansfield books work out (I assume you're talking about the "First Love and Forever" trilogy). They do hash out the idea that Emily is sealed to her first husband and can't be sealed to Mr. Wonderful. And the idea that all of their kids will be sealed to her and Husband #1 gets them down for awhile. But eventually they realize that the Lord will bless them with the righteous desires of their hearts, and they have full faith that in the next life they'll be together. In another book, it's mentioned that they've asked their grown children to have them sealed to each other after their deaths. (You have to remember that Stansfield books always end with the characters living happily ever after! ;) - --Katie Parker - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:56:26 -0600 From: Ken Burton Subject: [AML] Re: Types of Bishops My bishop in Nevada when I was in high school was sheriff and at another time constable. Ken Burton - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:23:42 -0600 From: "Marianne Hales Harding" Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call >All actors must be ATTRACTIVE, in excellent physical >condition, with EXCEPTIONAL acting talent and ability. >Please bring "head shots" if you have them. This is a >non-union production. NO SAG ACTORS WILL BE ACCEPTED! Gosh, usually people are looking for untalented and grotesquely ugly people to be in their movie...I'm so glad they specified their unique requests in all caps. Marianne Hales Harding _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:42:13 -0600 From: "Rachel Ann Nunes" Subject: Re: [AML] Sealings of Children > Now, I have heard that sometimes women can be sealed to two or more men, > with the understanding that a future choice will take place and ultimately > she will remain sealed to only one man. But I think that only happens > posthumously, doesn't it? Actually, Chris, this was how Anita Stansfield resolved this in a later book. The first husband (now dead) was neglectful to the point of abuse while the second was a faithful, loving spouse. He had crises of faith, however, because he feared that she would end up with the first husband and not with him (as had happened before when she chose to marry the first husband because he was a member and at the time the second was not). Finally, she made her children agree to seal her to the second husband after her death, and he had to trust that she would ultimately chose him. In my research, I've run across women who have been sealed to two men. And one case even at the same time while they were all living (in the early church era). Can't quote the source for you now, though. Been too long. Rachel - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:48:06 -0600 From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: RE: [AML] Starship Mormons Is that the same group that wears face masks to avoid breathing in (and thereby killing) any air-borne microorganisms? I don't remember the name, but Philip Roth has a character join that group in his phenomenal _American Pastoral_, which would make good background reading on the subject if you're looking for that. Chris Bigelow - -----Original Message----- From: Nan McCulloch [mailto:mcnandon@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 2:09 PM To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [AML] Starship Mormons When we were in India we came across a religion or sect that sweeps before they walk or sit, because they don't want to kill even the most insignificant insect. I have read about them, but can't remember all the details. Does anyone remember the name of this group? I don't have time to look it up. Nan McCulloch - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:48:44 -0400 From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] Single Bishops At 04:29 PM 10/15/02 -0700, you wrote: >Richard Johnson wrote: > > >> That's the rule. According to the scriptures "The husband of one wife". >> I'm not sure how they wiggled that for my ancestor who was a bishop (and >> mayor of Ogden) with six wives. > >Actually, I believe the Greek text suggests that a bishop must be the >husband of [at least] one wife. Polygamy was not uncommon at that time, and >was expressly provided for in the Mosaic Law. > >Richard Hopkins Not reading Greek (nor for that matter not having read commentaries on Titus that explicated them)I now understand why our Stake President discussed the one wife issue as the High Council was discussing a Bishop call, but never explained my ancestor. (His name was Luman A. Shurtliff, by the way) Richard B. Johnson, (djdick@PuppenRich.com) Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Director, Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool. I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important http://www.PuppenRich.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:52:27 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Johnny Lingo Okay (sigh), once more into the breech. Yes, all texts convey multiple meanings, yes, some texts speak so = powerfully to some audiences that those of us who don't belong to those = audience should probably keep mum, and certainly, absolutely, all us BYU = professor types are frequently, if not exclusively, up-in-the-night = elitists. Guilty as charged. =20 All that aside, I really don't know how it's possible to miss the primary = message of Johnny Lingo: the worth of a woman is determined by men, based = on a man's appraisal of her physical attractiveness. Mahana is 'ugly.' = But no! Johnny Lingo paid eight cows for her! Turns out she's beautiful! = And so Johnny Lingo's assessment of her wins out. =20 But Johnny Lingo (the character and also the movie) isn't asking us to = reevaluate our notions of what constitutes 'worth' or 'value' or what = weight we put on other human qualities, or anything of the sort. Johnny = just thinks she's hot, and that her family and friends are dopes for not = having seen it. But he's using precisely the same assessment criteria = everyone else is using. =20 Now look, some of y'all say this film has been valuable, even life-changing= ly positive, in the lives of some students who have seen it. I don't have = any reason to doubt you, I just don't know those kids. The kids I know = take great pleasure in mocking this film. But I can't see how anyone can = get anything positive out of it except, 'guys may not like you now, but = someday, one guy will consider you pretty, and you'll find that life is = wonderful.' Reaffirming the movie's central premise, in other words. 'Hey = young lady, you may have real nagging doubts about yourself, about your = looks and your ability to attract men. Fact is, you won't ever marry = unless some guy thinks you're hot. But odds are, some guy will. So feel = good about yourself!' We don't really question the underlying cultural assumptions of this film, = because in LDS culture, we continue to put a premium on female physical = attractiveness, and we tend to accept unquestioningly the values of our = (American, western) society. But am I really so off base in asking if = those values aren't in fact carnal, sensual and devilish? That the = inherent worth of any human being, any son or daughter of God has NOTHING = to do with some accident of physiognomy? That Mahana's 'worth' depending = on how much some guy is willing to pay for her is an utterly offensive, = repugnant notion at practically every level? Okay, I'm standing here on this soapbox, and feeling more than a little = foolish. Some of you have had positive experiences with this film. I = haven't, and I haven't met anyone who has. So, different worlds. But = those of you who say that this film has had a positive impact on the lives = of LDS kids you've taught or dealt with, let me ask this question. Is = that positive impact actually rooted in the gospel? Is it actually rooted = in some actual truth about life or God or humanity? Or is it at the level = that says 'it's true, your worth will be determined by some guy. But = don't worry! That guy exists! When you meet him, he'll think you're = worth eight cows! Have hope!" Reaffirming the apostate, diabolical, evil = message that I find at the heart of this ludicrous little film. Eric Samuelsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 11:03:35 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: [AML] Trading Characters Trading Characters: a family game, played for fun and profit. What you do is, you trade the main characters of two literary works, to = see how much damage you can do to both. The classic example is Hamlet and Othello. If Hamlet were the main = character of Othello, there wouldn't be a play. Hamlet is way too smart, = and skeptical and cynical not to see through Iago in about ten seconds. = He wouldn't do anything about Iago's treachery, but he'd see through it. = Meanwhile, Othello would hear the Ghost out, say 'okay, kill Claudius, no = prob', look him up, run him through, and that would be that. =20 I was thinking about this in relation to Charly and Single's Ward. In = Charly, an outgoing, vivacious, fun young woman finds herself stuck in an = incomprehensible marriage with Sam, the ultimate stick-in-the-mud. In = Single's Ward, Jon, a stand-up comedian and a really fun character, is = stuck with Cammie, this humorless drip. Sam and Cammie, though, there's a = match made in heaven--quiet evenings at home, reconciling their palm = pilots. And Jon and Charly would have a lot of fun together. Of course, = there'd be no conflict in either film, and so they'd neither of them work. = Which is all to the good. . . .=20 Eric Samuelsen =20 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:44:47 -0400 From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] The Bridge I never saw (or even heard of) the movie, but the story therein is one of my pet peeves. I have heard it from the pulpit many times. Now, I am much less antagonistic to speeches in Sacrament meeting than most of you who have commented. I ENJOY Sacrament meeting generally speaking and an deeply fed spiritually. (I am of an age when I do doze once in a while-- but rarely) But this story is so inaccurate in its symbolism. Christ was not trapped by his life, mission and crucifiction, he volunteered. My second son was sitting next to me last Sunday when one of the missionaries began that talk. He stood, harrumphed, and stomped out of the place, to return after the change of speakers. I am embarrassed to say that I didn't follow him. I followed Scott's admonition and read a book. (so okay, it was the priesthood manual, but I don't carry other books- its just the way I am.) Richard B. Johnson, (djdick@PuppenRich.com) Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Director, Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool. I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important http://www.PuppenRich.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:53:23 -0400 From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] Membership Records At 04:29 PM 10/18/02 -0600, you wrote: >I like this idea, the female bishop. A comedy based on membership records, hmmm . . . . > >Actually, see, I'm dead. I was listed on my old ward's membership records as 'deceased.' Been quite an experience, being dead. I'm not sure what to do with it fictionally speaking, but it's interesting. > This reminds me of my wife's grandmother. She was an active member all her life. He husband left her for another woman when she still had four small children. It never occurred to her to go to the temple until she was in her eighties. She got her recommend and showed up at the temple to find out that she had received her endowments by proxy almost ten years before. If you think hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, you should see the fury of a woman who was counted out dead. Richard B. Johnson, (djdick@PuppenRich.com) Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Director, Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool. I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important http://www.PuppenRich.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:04:35 EDT From: RichardDutcher@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Getting Started with LDS Screenwriting In a message dated 10/24/02 4:41:07 PM Mountain Daylight Time, dhunt_aml@juno.com writes: << Is there anyone who can give me any advice on how to get started into screenwriting? Or possibly more specifically, into LDS genre screenwriting? >> To Darvell Hunt: First of all, stay away from thinking about writing something in the "LDS genre." If you go about it with that mindset, you're going to find yourself writing down to your audience. You're not some guy behind the counter at Burger King filling somebody's order. The only genre you should be concerned about is the "Darvell Hunt genre." Write the stories that are deep within you and that are dying to get out. Don't worry, they'll be Mormon enough. At least they will be if you are enough of a Mormon. If you don't think you have any stories deep within yourself, keep looking. If you still can't find any, then do all of us Mormons a favor and don't write. The last thing we need is one more Mormon businessperson pretending to be an artist and cluttering up our movie screens. As for books and such: beware of any screenwriting guru who preaches any formula or structure for success. Just write from the gut of your soul. Richard Dutcher - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:46:44 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Sealings of Children >-----Original Message----- >Christopher Bigelow > >On Barbara Hume's Stansfield question, my understanding after >researching the question as an Ensign reporter and as a >concerned individual is that sealings of children follow the >mother, not the father. [snip] >These are rich complexities for fiction. For about three >years, I was sealed to two women, but then my ex got our >sealing canceled when she got remarried. I attended her >sealing to her new husband because I had given consent for the >daughter my ex and I adopted to be sealed to my ex and her new >husband at the time of their temple wedding, since she'd never >been sealed before our divorce and it was really the only >option for getting her sealed to SOMEONE, which is always >better than nothing. (Also present at the sealing ceremony >were my ex-wife's husband's ex-wife and the birth mother of >the son my ex and I previously adopted. I assume that adopted >son, who we had sealed to us, is now automatically sealed to >my ex and her new husband. I'm sure I love him more than his >step-father does, but I'm completely free of romantic turmoil >about it. The patriarchal order trumps love, or there would be chaos.) > You call what you just described NOT chaos? I'm more confused about the true order of things then before I read this. Can you try again using Husband One and Husband Two. I got lost trying to keep track of all the "he's." Thom Duncan >Chris Bigelow > > >-- >AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon >literature online.org/list/index.html> > - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:44:19 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Sealings At 07:03 PM 10/23/02 -0600, you wrote: >Still it makes me think that despite our >protestations we Mormons remain ambiguous about polygamy. I'm no longer ambiguous about the concept of plural wives. I reject it. I may be proven wrong, but a system that treats one gender as deserving of more privilege than the other is not consistent with the God I know. I guess I've just seen too much "But it's different for men" excuse-making in my life. If I had a husband who brought home some chick and told me that he'd be sleeping with her from now on, by golly. . . . . . [bleep] H'mmm. I seem to be with Emma on this one. But no one has vowed to come get me if I wind up in the hot place. . . . . barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:16:51 -0700 From: "BJ Rowley" Subject: Re: [AML] Getting Started with LDS Screenwriting I bought the software MOVIE MAGIC SCREENWRITER a couple of years ago, which I have found to be fairly popular. As a purchase perk, I receive regular e-mails with tips and tricks and other good stuff from the Screenwriter folks. It's mainstream (not specifically LDS), but very professional. A good place to look. - -BJ Rowley - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #874 ******************************