From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V2 #65 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, May 28 2003 Volume 02 : Number 065 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 12:54:02 -0600 From: "Clark Goble" Subject: RE: [AML] Mormon Horror ___ Me ___ | We have an interesting variation on the old Enoch legends | of the Watchers in which the fallen angels are actually a | race of semisubstantial beings living here on earth. ___ A few people emailed me about this. I started just replying to each of them but then figured it'd be easier to just reply to the whole list. I guess a lot of people aren't that familiar with the Watchers from the Enoch legends. They actually have popped up in fiction a lot the past few years in everything from Highlander to Buffy to various other movies. They're a great story. If you want some great classic stories of these sorts, I'd suggest Charlesworth's _Old Testament Pseudepigrpha_. It is two volumes and includes the main variations of Enoch. If you don't want to buy a copy (and beware there are lots of poor translations out there) then the following is a good online version. It's a very old translation so it isn't quite as good as modern versions and doesn't include variations from the Dead Sea Scrolls. http://www.projecttimothy.org/Book_of_Enoch.htm Nibley quotes these texts (there are many different Enoch stories) in his book _Enoch the Prophet_, which is probably more of interest to lay Mormons not quite as into looking up sources. It basically is a variation of the fallen angels story and is similar to the Mormon views of sons of Perdition - with a twist. A bunch of angels are cast out of the heavenly council and come to earth. Here they intermarry with mortals and produce a race of giants (Nephilim). They also introduce forbidden technologies, science and magic. These texts are typically assumed to be expansions on Genesis 6:4 "In those days, there were giants on the earth who were descendants of human women and the heavenly beings." Some tie these beings to the building of the Tower of Babel. Others say that they was the cause of the flood. Exactly what the "truth" (if any) behind these stories in Mormon terms is unclear. Some read it as the falling away of priesthood leaders. Others see it as a corrupted accounts of the fall of sons of perdition. I've even heard others who use it as a kind of LDS version of pre-Adamites and who are trying to harmonize science and the stories of Adam through Noah. Some of the other variations of Enoch are very interesting to Mormons since they parallel Nephi's vision in the Book of Mormon in many ways. They also typically involve a lot which Mormons would consider the endowment. Clark Goble - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 13:17:50 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Judith Freeman Excommunication? (FW) Christopher Bigelow wrote: > 'Massacre' Novelist May Face LDS Excommunication > By Patty Henetz > The Associated Press [printed in Salt Lake Tribune] > Other Mormon artists have run into similar trouble with the church. > Tom Rogers in 1976 wrote the play "Huebener," the story of a 17-year-old > German Mormon boy who was guillotined for resisting the Nazi party; his > bishop was a party member trying to protect the church. After its initial > run at Brigham Young University, Rogers was told he couldn't produce > "Huebener" again. > English professor Brian Evenson left BYU in 1995 for the University of > Denver and eventually left the church amid Mormon criticism of the dark > themes and parallels to Mormonism in his fiction. > Playwright and film director Neil LaBute was barred from taking > sacrament and participating in church priesthood activities for creating > despicable Mormon characters. I'm still not feeling better, not even after Scott Parkin's indefatigable efforts to be peacemaker. There's an evident pattern here that should be disturbing to LDS artists everywhere. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 20:36:41 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Alma 32 At 09:11 AM 5/22/03 -0600, you wrote: >In my last post, I cited Alma and mistakenly claimed that the seed of faith >lesson was in Alma 34. I actually checked last night, and it was 32, sorry. That chapter was instrumental in my conversion to the church. The missionaries had taken me to a sacrament meeting, and it was boring, and I was squirming. So one of the elders opened the Book of Mormon to this chapter and told me to read it. That business about the experiment made sense to me and started me taking the whole thing seriously. barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 16:28:05 -0600 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] 20th Century Mormon Women: An Inquiry Lisa, You want to take a serious look at "The Relief Society Magazine". It = began publishing way back (19th century, I believe) and continued into the = 1970s. Your Grandmother just might have an article or two in it. It was a = serious magazine and included literary criticism, scholarly works, fiction = contests, and other things that would raise eyebrows in current LDS publications. = I have a bunch of issues spanning the entire history of the publication (though not complete of course). I snap them up every time I run across them (just picked up 70 odd in a DI recently). It'd be cool if someone could compile an archive. I've been toying with the idea of doing that = for years. Serious copyright issues apply, of course... Jacob Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 17:12:33 -0600 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Mormon Horror - ---Original Message From: Scott Parkin > What I haven't seen a lot of are traditional horror stories=20 > from a Mormon standpoint. Unlike even the Jews with their=20 > golems and other homunculi, Mormonism doesn't really have a=20 > "dark side" of documented horrors. Yes, horrific stories of=20 > ordinarily horrible things happening to good people, but not=20 > a lot of theologically supported monsters, creatures, or=20 > ghouls, and no standard book of exorcism or counterspells to=20 > the dreaded seventh book of Moses. Hmm. I can't think of many monsters that truly haunt Mormons. I've = heard a number of second-hand stories of exorcism, of course. I've witnessed = some semi-scary things first-hand. Nothing you could base an entire book, = movie or play on, though. The trouble is, Mormons aren't terribly afraid of external spiritual assailants. Kind of hard to be *too* frightened when = the first priesthood-holder to arrive deals with the problem in a relatively brief, even perfunctory way. And I've never heard of one that persisted beyond the first encounter. There's not even a satisfying ritual or exorcism involved. It's tough because for Mormons, we just don't fear outside evil nearly as much as we fear internal personal failure and external human-based agents. To make it work, you'd have to make a more subtle villain. A lurker = with subtle influence and amazing persistence. Something that subtle would = be really hard to depict well, though it could potentially be *very* scary. You'd have to build the dread and horror up and you'd still face the = problem that any direct confrontation is pretty perfunctory--come to think of = it, though, build it up over time and give it sufficient hubris it could certainly bluff enough to isolate an individual and make their life miserable (and a kind of self-selecting misery, too). And you could = work all the ritual you want to into it with the assumption that an evil = entity would delight in misleading you into thinking such things worked (and instilling a false sense of security). And I've always wondered if Christ's retort when accused of using Beelzebub's power to cast out devils might not be what we assume--"[I]f Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?" Well, Satan's kingdom *won't* stand. Christ's = statement could as easily be read as a taunt as it can as a proof that Satan = cannot cast out Satan. Jacob Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 06:38:33 +0000 From: "Carrie Pruett" Subject: [AML] Neil LaBute's Work there's been some recent discussion about whether Neil LaBute is compromising his art for the sake of church approval. i've never seen any of LaBute's plays or films because I've been turned off of them by some very negative reviews. Interestingly, these reviews haven't come from LDS sources - I've read very few LDS views of his work - but in fairly liberal outlets, notably the New Yorker and Salon. Both of these magazines ran extremely negative reviews of his most recent film Shape of Things," and it strikes me that they object to many of the same things LDS audiences would object to, but for different reasons. Both David Denby in the New Yorker and the Salon reviewer (name escapes me) argued that LaBute designs his art with the goal of shocking viewer sensibilities, at the expense of character and plot. The Salon reviewer went farther and noted that the film wasn't even shocking to most contemporary sensibiliites (the line was something like, "this would be the edgiest movie of the year, if the year were 1982.") I'm curious about how these reviews might relate to LDS views of LaBute's work - might he be trying to shock with a view of an LDS audience that is in some way behind the cultural curve (and for the most part, as someone mentioned about Kushner's plays, not seeing the films anyway)? Does this relate to the comment by, I believe, Dianna, that some LDS viewers and artists go out of their way to seek out "filth" in order to prove they are above it? Is there perhaps a moralism in LaBute's work that would make it less palatable to more socially liberal critics? And I guess all of this leads to the big questions about whether I should see thes films even though I anticipate disliking them quite a bit - I hate to be in the role of having a negative view of something I haven't seen or read, but I'd like to think there's some artistic value that will outweigh the nastiness. Carrie _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 17:18:20 -0700 From: AML Subject: [AML] New Irreantum Issue If you're interested in Mormon-related fiction, poetry, memoirs, film, and drama, we invite you to read IRREANTUM, the literary quarterly printed by the nonprofit Association for Mormon Letters (AML). Take a moment and browse the contents of our newest 100-page issue, listed below. If you'd like to order this issue or a 4-issue subscription, use our order form at http://www.aml-online.org/irreantum/order-form.html. (If you already subscribe to IRREANTUM, please forward this message to others. If you don't wish to receive occasional news from the AML, use the UNSUBSCRIBE link at the bottom of this e-mail.) IRREANTUM: Spring 2003 Issue Interviews: Jana Riess (National religion book review editor) Douglas Alder (Novelist) Orson Scott Card (Novelist) (Reprinted from The Door Magazine) Novel Excerpt: Sons of Bear Lake, by Douglas D. Alder Essays: Los escogidos y los despreciados: Latino Influences in LDS Literature By John Alba Cutler Elegant Angst: Mining the Treasures of Mormon Personal Essays, 1982-2001 By Cherry B. Silver Relief Society Women Read the Tao Te Ching: Stories of a Mormon Book Club By Melody Warnick The Legacy of Legacy By D. Michael Martindale, IRREANTUM Film Editor Story: Thin, Scarlet Line, by Katherine Woodbury Poetry: Good Friday, Lance Larsen By Road, and By Sky, Lance Larsen This World, Not the Next, Lance Larsen Almost Two, Janean Justham Drawing, Kevin Klein Baptism, Kris Bluth Boogeyman, Sundy Watanabe Reviews Year in Review: 2002, by Andrew Hall A Mystery Novel Addresses a Larger Mystery A review of Paul Edwards's The Angel Acronym Strong Characters, Rewarding Read A review of Douglas D. Alder's Sons of Bear Lake Humor, Emotion, and Suspense A review of Kerry Blair's Closing In For the Defense: The Life of Hugh Winder Nibley A review of Boyd Petersen's Hugh Nibley: A Consecrated Life Heartwarming Lessons from a Lifetime of Sharing A review of George Durrant's Scones for the Heart Stone and Sea A review of Margaret Blair Young's Heresies of Nature Clean and Likable, Though Lacking Substance A review of Cheri Crane's The Girls Next Door Marriage Proposal Yields Perceptive Look at LDS Culture A review of Carolyn Howard-Johnson's This Is the Place Thrice Retelling John D. Lee A review of Judith Freeman's Red Water Mormon Feminist Memoir A review of Alison Comish Thorne's Leave the Dishes in the Sink: Adventures of an Activist in Conservative Utah Threads Offers Audience Appeal A review of Sammie Justesen's Common Threads Sinful Concoction Yields Hilarity A review Linda Hoffman Kimball's The Marketing of Sister B Mormon Literary Scene AML-List Highlights: Pain and Art Filling Our Minds Love and Adultery and Consequences To order this issue or a 4-issue subscription, use our order form at http://www.aml-online.org/irreantum/order-form.html. ==================================================================== Update your profile here: http://aml.u.tclk.net/survey/?a84D2W.batlYA.YW1sLWxp Unsubscribe here: http://aml.u.tclk.net/survey/?a84D2W.batlYA.YW1sLWxp.u Delivered by Topica Email Publisher, http://www.email-publisher.com/ - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 19:25:06 -0500 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] SSA in Mormon Lit A strange thought that's been floating around my brain for the last couple of weeks... One of the boys in our ward came over early to pick up his younger brother, who was playing at our house. He explained that he had been visiting a female friend, but that her parents had left, and the rule is that he's not allowed to be over at a girl's house if no one else is there. (He's 16, by the way.) And I started thinking... What would the rules be for a young man in pretty much the same circumstances, except that his attraction happens to be to other guys rather than girls? Is he allowed to visit his best friend's house when the parents aren't there? Can the door be closed when he's in his friends' rooms? What about sleepovers? What about scout campouts? What about participation in scouting, for that matter? And I started realizing that there's a lot of room for both comic and not-so-comic treatment of this type of situation in Mormon literature, if you take as a starting point the premise of a same sex-attracted (SSA) Mormon youth who's trying his darndest to negotiate the social and behavioral expectations that come with trying to live by Church guidelines, but adapting them to his (or her) own somewhat different circumstances. I can hardly stop grinning over the potential Sugar Beet articles. Part of the humor, of course, comes from the disjunction with reality. While there are, statistics assure us, a whole lot of SSA youth in the Church, we seem an awfully long way from thinking of this as simply another of the trials that some of our youth have to deal with. It's easy enough to imagine the angst-ridden story that comes out of this situation; much harder and more surreal to imagine the boy, family, etc., simply trying to deal with it in a matter-of-fact way. (I actually asked the question of the young man in question: If you were the dad, and you had a son who liked boys instead of girls, what rule would you put in place for your son? He gave me a strange look and said that in that case, he wouldn't let his son out of the house until he had been treated and gotten over it. An answer illuminating, I think, for its utter lack of understanding of the problem. Did I mention that this is one of the sharpest young men in our ward, and that his father is in our stake presidency?) Maybe it's a mistake to try to deal with this issue in our literature at all. And if you do, maybe it's unrealistic to expect that it can take anything other than center stage in any story where it appears--and in a pretty somber, ponderous sort of way. Still, I can't help but think it ought to be different from that--that a literature that *handles* SSA, instead of either ignoring or being taken over by it, would likely be both better literature and a better contribution to our religious community. There's been some discussion of Kushner on the list recently. I won't go into my view of the plays for the moment, except simply to say: these aren't stories about what it means to be SSA and Mormon. That isn't part of what Kushner is interested in writing about. But there is, I think, space for some really good stories that deal with this. I don't know where they would be published, I don't know who would read them; but I'd like to see them written. Am I alone in seeing this as a potential opportunity for Mormon writers? Jonathan Langford Speaking for myself, not AML-List jlangfor@pressenter.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 18:40:44 -0600 From: Margaret Young Subject: [AML] RE: ROGERS, _Heubener_ (was: Judith Freeman Excommunication?) [MOD: This is a compilation of two posts from Margaret on this topic.] I've just returned from Kirtland, where I stayed with the delightful and brilliant Neal Chandler. I brought home with me a play he has written about Huebener. It is predictably brilliant--through told from a much different perspective than Tom Rogers's play (in which I portrayed Helmuth's mother some 30 years ago). You can read Tom's play in his collection of plays _God's Fools_. I am hoping to give the play I brought home with me to Thom Duncan for consideration for his theater. You can read more about Huebener in _The Price_ by Karl Heinz Schnibbe (one of Helmuth Huebener's co-conspiritors) and Alan Keele. And there is a fairly new documentary out about the case. My husband has visited Huebener's execution cell, which lists Helmuth as a member of "the American cult, the Mormon Church." Oh, and I wrote a piece about acting in _Huebener_, published in _Dialogue_ many years ago (and I don't have my vita with me and have no idea which issue it was in.) I now regret the title, of course: "Doing Huebener." But I was young when I wrote it. [second post]: _Huebener_ was produced twice at BYU. Once in 1976 (right?) and again in the eighties. I was a little surprised that it was produced a second time, because the first run had been controversial. It was a hit, but controversial. We were extended 2 weeks and invited to take the play to California. Because some Church authorities were concerned about some issues (such as the effect of the story of German saints and probably also the idea of anarchy), we were not allowed to accept that invitation. I was glad to see that the controversy faded over the years. I would love to see Neal Chandler's version of the same story done, too. It is from an entirely different perspective (the branch president basically puts himself on trial) and is a very different play. I happen to be a major Neal Chandler fan, and long for a reprinting of his short story collection _Benediction_--some of the funniest stuff to come out of anyone's head. His story of Huebener is not funny at all, but full of the depth he brings to any project. ________________ Margaret Young 1027 JKHB English Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602-6280 Tel: 801-422-4705 Fax: 801-422-0221 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 18:58:13 -0600 From: Margaret Young Subject: RE: [AML] PETERSEN, _Hugh Nibley_ (Review) Congrats to Boyd, who received the Mormon History Association award for best biography. ________________ Margaret Young 1027 JKHB English Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602-6280 Tel: 801-422-4705 Fax: 801-422-0221 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:36:41 -0600 From: Gideon Burton Subject: RE: [AML] 20th Century Mormon Women: An Inquiry On Mormon women in the 20th century, you should browse the works of = Claudia Bushman, Mary Bradford, Carol Cornwall Madsen, Jesse Embry, Jill Mulvay Derr, and Maureen Ursenbach Beecher. There is a conference being held on this topic on March 20, 2004 at BYU sponsored by the Joseph Fielding = Smith Institute for LDS History (more info, query at = ldswomen-history@byu.edu).=20 Here are some sources that may be relevant to your inquiry: Beecher, Maureen Ursenbach and Kathryn MacKay. "Women in = Twentieth-Century Utah." In Utah's History, eds. Richard D. Poll, et al. Provo, Utah: = Brigham Young University Press, 1978, pp. 563-86. Nichols, Julie J. "The Extraordinary in the Ordinary: Women's Stories, Women's Lives." Dialogue 25.2 (Summer 1992): 73-78 Snedecor, Barbara Elliott. "On Being Female: A Voice of Contentment." Dialogue 25.3 (Fall 1992): 155-163. Jan Shipps, "In and Out of Time," in Mormonism: The Story of a New = Religious Tradition (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1985),109-30. Beecher, Maureen Ursenbach. "Each in Her Own Time: Four Zinas." Dialogue 26.2 (Summer 1993): 119-135 Derr, Jill Mulvay; Janath Russell Cannon; and Maureen Ursenbach Beecher Women of Covenant: The Story of Relief Society. Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1992. (but also see Peggy Pascoe's review of this in Dialogue 27.2 [Summer 1994]: 237-245) Derr, Jill Mulvay. Sisters in Spirit: Mormon Women in Historical and Cultural Perspective. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1987. Holladay, Valerie. "The Path of the Wanderer: Autobiographical Theory = and the Personal Essay." Dialogue 32.3 (Fall 1999): 83-91 You might also look at this non-LDS source: Gerda Lerner, "The Cult of Domesticity," Michael Gordon, ed., The = American Family in Its Historical and Social Context (New York: St. Martin's = Press, 1983), 372-92. Gideon O. Burton 3113 JKHB Department of English Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801) 422-3525 Visit Silva Rhetoricae: The Forest of Rhetoric http://rhetoric.byu.edu The Mormon Literature Database http://MormonLit.lib.byu.edu =20 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:47:31 -0700 From: thelairdjim Subject: Re: [AML] Narrative Choices That is the reason I don't watch West Wing. It's a soap opera. I haven't watched soap opera's since I was 4 years old. I can't stand more than 5 minutes. I watched an episode of West Wing in the first season and the jury was out as to whether it was a soap opera--watched part of another episode and that was enough for me. Soap opera mixed with political lies. Just what I always wanted. I gave up soap operas when I was a little kid because I thought they were a bad influence on me. I'm old enough not to worry much about bad influences but I still can't bear them. Strange but true. That was also the day I officially became Pro-Life. Jim Wilson aka the Laird Jim - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:04:46 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: [AML] RE: ROGERS, _Heubener_ >-----Original Message----- > "gtaggart" wrote:> "Other Mormon artists have run into >similar trouble with the church. >> Tom Rogers in 1976 wrote the play "Huebener," the story of a >> 17-year-old German Mormon boy who was guillotined for resisting the >> Nazi party; his bishop was a party member trying to protect the >> church. After its initial >> run at Brigham Young University, Rogers was told he couldn't produce >> "Huebener" again." > >He may have been told that in 1976, but I saw Huebner at BYU >in the 80's. Maybe it was in '88. I also saw "Road to >Golgotha," another play of his, at about the same time. What you saw probably wasn't Tom's. In the 80's, there was another play about the same subject written by another person. [MOD: I also remember this "other" play. Titled _Heubener against the Reich_, if I recall correctly. One of the faculty members in the German dept. was author or coauthor. Alan Keele, perhaps?] Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 03:21:01 -0700 From: "Rex Goode" Subject: Re: [AML] SSA in Mormon Lit Jonathan, Were you intentionally trying to coax me out of my lurkerhood? Naturally, any treatment of this subject would depend heavily on the message the writer wanted to promote. Anyone who says that fiction isn't trying to promote a point of view has no credibility with me. Well, I do admit that sometimes the intent is to raise a question rather than promote a point of view. Either way, a point of view will inevitably be presented in the story. If it were me, the question I would raise in a story would not be actually about same-sex attraction but about the value of such boundaries in contrast to the value of frank and forthright discussion with youth about the virtues of chastity and the dangers of breaking the law of chastity. Stated boundaries are good, but as this situation shows, they cannot cover everything that may tempt a young person. Some effort needs to be made by parents to cover with openness the bases that the boundaries don't cover. Boundaries notwithstanding, only a commitment on the part of a youth to principles of chastity and virtue will arm him or her against the temptations that will undoubtedly arise. That, to me, is a much more interesting dilemma for a story. It seems to me that a same-sex attracted youth would be the perfect character and provide the perfect dilemma to explore in such a story. The dilemma is not only his, but is also owned by any characters who know about his feelings. How does his bishop handle it? How do his parents handle it? How do his fellow priests handle it? There is a corner of a room in the Church's message about same-sex attraction that is surrounded by painted floors. Can't get out of that corner without stepping in the paint. They have unofficially bought into point of view put forth by Dr. Dean Byrd in _Homosexuality and the Church of Jesus Christ_. That point of view relies on a theory of same-sex attraction genesis in a young man that says that same-sex attraction is a result of a disconnect between a boy and his male peers. The therapy that is born out of this theory involves helping him to connect in non-sexual but emotionally intimate ways with his peers. It says that he is attracted to boys because of the workings of the "mysterious other" concept. That concept is that men are attracted to women because they are a mystery to men. We're all attracted to mysteries, it seems. When a boy sees his own sex as being the mysterious other, it results in the same kind of sexual attraction toward males as other men experience toward females. If this theory is accurate, and I'm not here to promote it in the least, then it would naturally follow that anyone trying to help a young man deal with his same-sex attraction would want to encourage, rather than discourage, his friendships with his male peers. He would also not want to impose any notions in the boy's mind that would further widen the gap between how he sees himself and how he sees other boys. They would want to encourage him to adopt a masculine self-image. Telling him he can't be alone with boys his own age would only serve to send the message to him that rather than keep the male version of the boundaries, he needs to keep the female version. Let me illustrate. I know a lot of LDS men who are same-sex attracted. A "straight" man who also knows some of these men was concerned when a couple of the men went on a hike together. He gave the example of how inappropriate it would be considered for him to give a female sister a ride to a meeting and be alone with her in his car. He felt that the same standard should apply to men who are same-sex attracted, only it should be applied to being alone with other men. I asked him, "So, which one of the two men who went on the hike is the woman and would you like to break the news to him that despite your efforts to get him to see himself as a man that you want him to abide by rules that are created for women? Do you really want him to feel like you think he is a woman?" I also asked, "Do you then think it would be OK for me to give rides to women and be alone with them in my car? After all, I'm not attracted to women." Well, he got my point. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If encouraging a connectedness with masculinity is the cure-all for homosexuality in men, then you can't discourage it with boundaries that widen the gap. I think it is an excellent topic for Mormon literature. I have had a story on this subject in the works for about twenty years. The dang question keeps getting rearranged on me. I held my tongue throughout the Kushner discussion, not without some effort. I've already had my say on the subject, which can be found in the list archives. Rex Goode - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 09:25:16 -0500 From: "Lisa Tait" Subject: Re: [AML] 20th Century Mormon Women: An Inquiry From: "Jacob Proffitt" To: Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 5:28 PM Subject: RE: [AML] 20th Century Mormon Women: An Inquiry Yeah, I want to look at the RS Magazine. For my dissertation. Seriously. I started on the Young Woman's Journal for my thesis and I plan to spend a career looking at periodicals, both LDS and non. Periodicals are great history because they are a snapshot of the time that produced them. What makes me really sick is that my grandma had a huge stash of old RS Magazines at one time. She threw them out not more than ten years ago, which was about three years before I realized what a treasure they would have been. I am coming to Utah next week for a quick research trip. I'll be staying in American Fork. Where are the best places to look for old RS Magazines etc? Besides DI--and which DI? How about very old Mormon books? I want to find a copy of Representative Women of Deseret and of Susa Young Gates's biography of Brigham Young. Can anyone suggest further reading about farming and farm culture in Utah? Danish/Scandinavian immigrants? Thanks. Lisa Tait - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 09:29:58 -0600 (MDT) From: ben@parkinsonfamily.org Subject: [AML] (TRIB) Thomas F. ROGERS on _Huebener_ [MOD: Thanks to Ben for forwarding this.] Forwarded from the Salt Lake Tribune, 26 May 2003 'Huebener' Author Although the brief reference to my play "Huebener" in an Associated Press article about Judith Freeman and other Mormon writers (Tribune, May 22) is fairly accurate, I regret the implication readers might easily read into it that I was ever threatened with excommunication by LDS ecclesiastical authorities. Immediately after discussing Freeman's dismay about possible excommunication, the article states that "Other Mormon artists have run into similar trouble with the church," and then invokes my name. The misleading term here is "similar." I was never threatened with excommunication or reprimanded for the play in any way. The play was in fact allowed to continue its long extended run in 1976 and was presented again, after the fall of the Iron Curtain, on the BYU main stage. The LDS Church News ran a full-page article about Helmuth Huebener last December, and BYU also recently produced a frequently aired documentary dealing with the same events. In a farewell letter at the time of my retirement in 2000, BYU President Merrill Bateman, himself an LDS general authority, even commended me for having written the play. Since "Huebener" is presently running at the Bountiful Performing Arts Center, I would not want potential viewers or cast members to misread the article and presume that the play is under some kind of onus or that its author is not in good standing with the LDS Church. Thomas F. Rogers Bountiful - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:11:59 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] BYU Actors >-----Original Message----- >Now, Thom, was that just an inquiry or a bit of sarcasm? I sincerely wanted to know but, yes, it was a bit or sarcasm as well. I contend, unlike George Nelson, that BYU actors who refrain from swearing, etc. are not necessarily better, though they are immediately different. I've attended enough BYU performances to know that there are amazing actors and directors there. I've also seen some performances that gave me pause. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:15:50 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Artist's Personal Lives, or just Good Readin' >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Bill Willson >prophets. ???? never-the-less, (imho) prophets are and should >definitely be in a realm all by themselves. > Which is why I used the term "similar" in describing their mantles. They are not the same, they have different responsibilities, different stewardships, if you will. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:20:19 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Tom Rogers Reply He was never called or questioned about "Heubner" in relation to the Freedman case but he was called on the carpet after the play was performed at BYU. Read all about it in _BYU, Household of Faith_. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:06:49 -0600 From: Gideon Burton Subject: [AML] Orson Scott Card and L.E. Modesitt Jr. at June Seminar Those in the Cedar City area may be interested in this opportunity to = study with Orson Scott Card in June - --- I am a faculty member in PE. =A0I just got this information and wondered = if anyone in English is interested in reading/writing science fiction. = =A0I=92ve taken classes from George Wythe College and my daughter is a student = there. =A0Their offerings are excellent and this course is limited to a total = of 17 people. =A0If you know anyone that may be interested, pass it on. Shane Schulthies. - ------ Forwarded Message From: Andrew Groft Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 10:26:25 -0600 To: agroft@gwc.edu Subject: Orson Scott Card and L.E. Modesitt Jr. at June Seminar Dear George Wythe College Students and Friends,=20 =A0 I have been trying to get Orson Scott Card to come contribute to the = June Seminar on the Classical Nature of Science Fiction and Fantasy for some = time now. =A0After learning what we are doing with the seminar, and how it is focussing on leadership training and writing, Mr. Card and his wife = finally agreed to come. =A0In addition, L.E. Modesitt Jr. will also be coming = for the two days following Mr. Card's visit. =A0That's two amazing authors who = will mentor us through their works and give us insight into writing and publishing our own works. =A0 =A0 I promised them both that the class would be small so that there could = be an academic intimacy. =A0It is in this regard that I am writing you. =A0We = have 10 more spots open for this seminar. =A0Those wanting to come must be = enrolled in either the full month or the two-week portion of the June Seminar. = =A0Even if you can only come to the 4-day portion with Mr. Card and Mr. Modesitt, = you must be enrolled for the month or two-week. =A0 =A0 If you or someone you know wants to come, please call GWC before = Wednesday (May 28) as we are only accepting 10 more participants. =A0It will be a = great seminar and I would love to see you there. =A0 =A0 In addition, the August Seminar on Presidential Biographies will be excellent and I would invite you to consider that as well. =A0Good luck = in your studies and preparations. =A0Information at = www.gwc.edu/summer_seminars =A0 =A0 Warmest Regards,=20 =A0 Dr. Andrew Groft Provost Email: agroft@gwc.edu=20 Website: www.gwc.edu =A0 Phone: 435-586-6570=20 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 14:20:37 -0500 From: "Lisa Tait" Subject: Re: [AML] 20th Century Mormon Women: An Inquiry Barbara Hume: If you're talking about Mormon women in our time, do you want to narrow > your field by discussing those women who come from this long-term heritage? > May Mormon women are converts themselves or are children of recent > converts. What's the difference to an LDS woman's life if it has always > resonated to stories of the pioneers, or if the church was a choice made > far into modern times? This is a very good point. I am sure there is room for a lot of work to be done on women converts in the 20th century. For my project, the long-term heritage is essential because my grandmother is of pioneer stock, and this was central to her sense of self and history. The stories of church history were, literally, her family stories. On a related note: Over the weekend it occurred to me to wonder whether there is a particularly Mormon way of observing Memorial Day. For us it was always a day to pile in the car and drive down to Carbon and Emery counties to 'decorate' the graves of our ancestors, always with flowers from our own yard of course. I was at least 25 years old before it dawned on me that Memorial Day was supposed to be a patriotic holiday. For me, it was a day of remembering and honoring our ancestors. Is this a Mormon thing? Or a generational thing? Anybody know anything about how Memorial Day has been perceived and observed over the years? Lisa Tait - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V2 #65 *****************************