From: buffy-owner@xmission.com (buffy Digest) To: buffy-digest@xmission.com Subject: buffy Digest V1 #26 Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com Sender: buffy-owner@xmission.com Errors-To: buffy-owner@xmission.com Precedence: buffy Digest Wednesday, April 16 1997 Volume 01 : Number 026 In this issue: BUFFY: Re: Buffy:Random Thoughts Re: BUFFY: Possible Outcomes for Angel.. Re: BUFFY: NY viewers Re: BUFFY: OFF TOPIC: issues (was Send Me An Angel) Re: BUFFY: Nick and Angel BUFFY: GASPers (Re: :Random Thoughts) BUFFY: A Contract for Next Season BUFFY: Angel spoilers (Nick and Angel) Re: BUFFY: Angel Re: BUFFY: Next week's episode Re: BUFFY: Spoiler "Angel" ep BUFFY: Re:Teacher's Pet Re: BUFFY: A Contract for Next Season BUFFY: I have a question... Re: BUFFY: Fave character Re: BUFFY: NY viewers BUFFY: Darla, Angel vs. the vampire Re: BUFFY: Angel Re: BUFFY: Spoiler "Angel" ep/List Rules Re: BUFFY: Next week's episode Re: BUFFY: Re: BUFFY- Angel Episode [ Re: BUFFY: Darla, Angel vs. the vampire BUFFY: No hope for Buffy & Angel? Bah! Re: BUFFY: Re: BUFFY- Angel Episode [ BUFFY: Quote lists, and etc. See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:50:27 EDT From: boba.fett1@juno.com Subject: BUFFY: Re: Buffy:Random Thoughts On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Xinlei Du writes: >if Willow's last name >>indicates that she's Jewish, would it work if she wore a Star of >David? Does >>it really depend on the vampire's or victim's belief system, or is it >>strictly the symbolism? > >What IS Willow's last name anyway? Am I the only onw that doesn't >know? =o) > Her name is Willow Rosenburg. Not sure if I spelled that right. Check out the sight http://www.buffyslayer.com they have all the characters full names. That's how I figured out where Xander got his name. Short for Alexander. Duh. Took me long enough. l8r - -Lewis Miller | .-= Boba Fett =-. Linux, the choice of a GNU generation | ' -He's no good ` -Phreaks Rule!- | to me dead Email: boba.fett1@juno.com | Finger: boba.fett@matrix.uti.com | WEB site: http://www.uti.com/~boba.fett ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:50:27 EDT From: boba.fett1@juno.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Possible Outcomes for Angel.. On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:25:00 -0700 "Dave Ko" writes: >ok, I've been pondering, and this is a list of what I thought may be >possible outcomes for Angel.. you can elaborate on this list if you >want.. > >1) yes, the incredible Giles comes up with a cure for Vampirism.. >Angel >becomes whole again.. Buffy's got herself a new boyfriend, and >everyone's >happy > a) however, Angel's body, upon returning to human-dom, may >realize it >should have been dead 200 years ago (DNA thing?), and he dies on the >spot > I have ta say I kinda like this one! :) >2) Possibility #2.. he dies trying to save Buffy from the Annoited >One/Master.. big mess..lots of blood.. lots of killing.. however, >the one >act of heroism buys him his 1 way ticket to heaven.. Not bad. Not bad at all.. >3) He disappears and goes back to the old world.. back to Europe and >no one >sees him ever again.. > Nah... Leaves to much open. Kinda boring end for such and interesting character. >4) he gets a "mercy killing" from Buffy & Co.. sorta like the ending >of the >Bram Stoker Dracula movie (the most recent one) Hmmmm.. I dunno. Didn't she already have a shot at this? l8r - -Lewis Miller | .-= Boba Fett =-. Linux, the choice of a GNU generation | ' -He's no good ` -Phreaks Rule!- | to me dead Email: boba.fett1@juno.com | Finger: boba.fett@matrix.uti.com | WEB site: http://www.uti.com/~boba.fett ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:50:28 EDT From: boba.fett1@juno.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: NY viewers On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Mari Eguchi writes: > Just to let those of you who are in the NY area, this week's >episode of Buffy (for some unknown reason) is being re-aired at 1PM >this >Saturday (Ch.11--WPIX or sometimes, WB). However, there are no plans >to >keep re-airing episodes. Would some one please let me know if they plan on re-airing the episode "Angel", in the Chicago land area. Please let them reair this one! l8r - -Lewis Miller | .-= Boba Fett =-. Linux, the choice of a GNU generation | ' -He's no good ` -Phreaks Rule!- | to me dead Email: boba.fett1@juno.com | Finger: boba.fett@matrix.uti.com | WEB site: http://www.uti.com/~boba.fett ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:10:51 +0000 From: "Laura Smith" Subject: Re: BUFFY: OFF TOPIC: issues (was Send Me An Angel) On 16 Apr 97 at 10:55, Jimmy Wan wrote: > It's pretty obvious that > there is an inherent parallelism between Buffy and Duncan MacLeod. > To engage in some deeper analysis isn't exactly harmful. It's no > more or less on-topic than this stuff about VR5, Forever Knight, or > those Taster's Choice Commercials. Would it be considered on topic > if I started talking about SMG's roles on All My Children? ie, that > have nothing to do with her role on Buffy? That would be ludicrous. Actually - I'd have to disagree with you on this point. Duncan and Buffy may share some qualities - that of being heros of the story and killing the bad guy - but that's where it ends IMHO. The similarities to VR.5 - I'd agree with - specifically with Oliver/Giles. Both have followed long lines of family tradition. Oliver as an "agent" of the Committee and later a protector for Sydney and Giles as a tutor for slayers. Forever Knight also can be appreciated if only as a point of comparison in the gendre. I don't think bringing up AMC is any good unless you want to refer to SMG's acting career, no matter how many vamps you have in daytime soaps - the last one to have fangs and an attitude was Dark Shadows.... Laura J. Smith ljsmith@ilap.com http://www.ilap.com/~ljsmith Common sense ain't so common anymore.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:14:30 +0000 From: "Laura Smith" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Nick and Angel On 16 Apr 97 at 15:06, Keith Toms wrote: > Hi. I'm a general lurker on this list, but I had to pop in and > respond to this little comment. Now, I'm not in to scoping out > guys, but from the few times I saw FK, Nick was not what I would > call a looker, whereas I think the actor that plays Angel could make > big bucks doing modeling or something along those lines. I don't > want to start a big debate here (because I think I'd lose, judging > from past posts), just my observations. As far as eye-candy goes - the Rick Springfield - Nick is first in my eyes - followed by Angel and then Geriant Wyn Davies as Nick. However - never having seen Henry Fitzroy (Tanya Huff's "Blood" series he could be some serious competition.....) Laura J. Smith ljsmith@ilap.com http://www.ilap.com/~ljsmith Common sense ain't so common anymore.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:15:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Sonja Marie Subject: BUFFY: GASPers (Re: :Random Thoughts) Hi, GASPers are the Giles' Appreciation Society Panters a group of women and men (yes men) who are fans of the character Giles and usually the actor Anthony Stewart Head. We claim things personal or related to the characters, like I am the Keeper of the Coats and Ties. If you or anyone else who reads this is interested in how to join email me PRIVATELY! Hope this helps. On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 boba.fett1@juno.com wrote: > >Not quite a GASPer, but self-appointed Keeper of the Gold Blend!! > > BTW. Pardon me for being stupid, but what is a GASPer? > -Lewis Miller Sonja Marie - The White Rose @--'->-- http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/sonja.html Co-Pres. of the Jeff Fahey IFC - http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/fahey.html Paul Wylie Fan Pages - http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/pwylie/pwylie.html Owner of the Jeff Fahey Mailing List & The Paul Wylie Mailing List Pres. of Giles Appreciation Society Panters -GASP!- Keeper of Giles' Coats&Ties ASH Appreciation Society Member - Watch Buffy: the Vampire Slayer - Series! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:19:33 -0400 (EDT) From: LaremyB@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: A Contract for Next Season Hi, All. Forgive me if this has already been posted, but I've finally been able to access the official site, and I pulled this off the postboard, from TV James: "Angel's Fans - A bio, of sorts, will be available later today or early tomorrow. Since he wasn't contracted when the shows were shot (he is now, for next season), they didn't have a bio for him." Not only does this confirm next season, it means we haven't seen the last of Angel. Yes, I'm a very happy camper today! Leslie "No quote here. Move along." --kg Natpack~HPotCoS~GASPer: Keeper of the Car Keys~Angelite LaremyB@aol.com or RemencusL@jsc.mil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:29:35 -0400 (EDT) From: aduty@norfolk.infi.net (Andrew Duty) Subject: BUFFY: Angel spoilers (Nick and Angel) Just in case there are some that havent seen it yet. Spoilers for Angel V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V Though there are some similarities between Nick and Angel I think there are more different than the same. The think I like most about BTVS is that it isnt as gray as FK or HL are. The vampires in Buffy are evil period. There are no long sessions of agonizing whether the vampire she is after is evil or not or if she should kill or let him go. Its simple demons kill the people and take over their bodies. Buffy kills the Vampire and it goes back to where ever it came from and the soul is freed. Buffy could not function properly in a FK world where there are Nick's and Vachons and even Jeanettes and Screed's. Now Angel is a different story. He is unique and since he has a soul Buffy was in that bad situation where she had to question who she was and what she had to do. Since Angel is the only good vampire on the show and since we have his back story you can make the basic comparissons to Nick. Nick was always Nick even after he turned. He went through his bad spells but even when he was new he loved his family and saved his sister from his fate. Angel was different, he was a demon that killed his family and everything around him for years. When Angel regained his soul he felt regret and turned from his kin and started his own war against them. We havent seen too much yet on if he longs to be human. I hope not, I would like it if he just accepted what he is and joined Buffy in ridding the world of Vampires. Nick felt his guilt and turned it into a quest to regain his humanity. He never went to war against his kind he just became the black sheep of the vampire community and in some cases was its laughing stock. Also he wasnt totally alone there were others like him that tried to become human again. Of course, I think the FK vampires arent really that bad. In some cases I didnt see why some were so angst-ridden. They have a choice, they can drink cow blood and right after they become vampires they could bond with dog blood (or like screed rats) and they would never even have to kill humans. There is just no option in BTVS. You leave the family (and so far we know of only one case) they kill you. You kill humans and you love it there is no shred of your humanity left. Angel is totally alone and on the hit list of vampires and slayers. So he has a bit of a harder row to hoe. Just a few thoughts, Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:27:52 -0400 From: Michael Podlesney Subject: Re: BUFFY: Angel boba.fett1@juno.com wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:55:09 -0500 (CDT) Bast > writes: > >On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Rich & Terry Pfeifer wrote: > > > >> I remember an *awful* movie about vampires where they did, indeed > >"cure" > >> vampirism. They completely transfused the blood of the "vampire" > >with human > >> blood, and he was fine again. Seemed a little simplistic at the > >time. > >> > >> But of course, I can't remember the name of the movie? Any help > >here, guys? > > > >Oh, it would be "Near Dark," I believe. > > > > Not sure, but another show where they attemted to cure vapirism was. Doh! > Can't rememebr the name. Had Barnibus Collins. When they brought it > back about a few years ago, they had tried to cure him through some > strange treatment of his blood. Whatever. bye > > l8r > -Lewis Miller > > | .-= Boba Fett =-. Linux, the choice of a GNU generation > | ' -He's no good ` -Phreaks Rule!- > | to me dead Email: boba.fett1@juno.com > | Finger: boba.fett@matrix.uti.com > | WEB site: http://www.uti.com/~boba.fett I think that was something like Dark ____ i can't remember if it powers or sides or whatever. - -galactic ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:20:08 +0000 From: "Laura Smith" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Next week's episode Hi, I happen to be one of the lucky ones who next week will see the repeat of The Witch and also the new episode I Robot - You Jane. If you're interested in spoilers, YTV in Canada is airing IR-YJ on Friday the 26th. I'm willing to write up a synopsis for those interested - with the required spoiler space. Oh yea, Hi Augie - I finally followed you over here.... Laura J. Smith ljsmith@ilap.com http://www.ilap.com/~ljsmith Common sense ain't so common anymore.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:45:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Cagey Subject: Re: BUFFY: Spoiler "Angel" ep On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 pearss@saraleebake.com wrote: > From: Sean Pearson > > SPOILER pad for "Angel" ep follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Avoiding the ire of our ListKeepers will be a > challenge, but here's why I wasn't pleased with "Angel": I'm not sure where this vicious rumor that the List Monarchs are fire breathing dragons came from. Feed one beer and the other marshmallow Peeps and they'll only spurt steam. > 1. The trend towards these vamps as Anne Rice-types is > disappointing. A vampire as a demon in the vessel of soulless > human shell--that makes a great foundation for a storyline. The I think the romancy Gothic angle has certain benefits storywise too, but it's been so overdone of late that one can become a bit jaded by it, eh? I am relieved that there's a *reason* for Angel's conflict--even Darla saw it as the fault of the curse and not some internal moral conversion ("Alas! I am tired of the bloodshed. Give me a Lean Cuisine instead, please!"). Buffyverse vampires are proving far more interesting than I'd hoped; we know *why* they do what they do, and it's not the sheer romanticism of living Forever. > should have been either destroyed or captured in the ep. He could Should have? Are we complaining that the writers aren't following the right conventions ? I rather like the ambiguous end; I hope that if Angel sticks around, he will continue to be a point of conflict. I am most intrigued by Giles' attitude towards Angel, or rather near lack of attitude. Giles was remarkably noncommittal about this so-called good vampire, I thought. Yes, he made the proper noises about Buffy's duty as a Slayer, but he certainly wasn't adamant. I'm reminded of Sharon's pre-"Angel" comment that if he knew about sympathetic vampires, Giles wouldn't want to tell Buffy because she *shouldn't* be confused about her duty. Which leads me to... > Dramatic license aside, his tendency to say "oops" is becoming his > mantra. An excellent point. I can only hope that his background as a Watcher will be further explained. Unfortunately, the "let's give him some color by saying that he was destined to be a Watcher since a boy" thread has made the successful resolution of this theme difficult. If he knew he was going to be a Watcher, according to what we've seen of him he either "rebelled" against it in some way and didn't do his own duty (which could make him more sympathetic to Buffy, and explain his reactions to Owen and the Angel issue), didn't expect to be called to actual Watching and spent too much time waiting in the wings doing his own thing, or he just sucks. Obviously I'd prefer option one or two . > I hope the writers explore the potential of bringing Romani into a > storyline, esp. the chance of a recurring role. If any culture comes Alas, if any storyline from "Angel" is going to be ignored, I imagine it will be this one. It smacks of convenient plot device, and will probably disappear into the mists of the writers' imaginations. But I hope I'm wrong. > was up to previous standards. So now I cringe, awaiting a flood of > flames and hate mail... Pessimistic sort of guy, aren't you? . > PearsS@SaraLeeBake.com Mmmmm...chocolate. Was anybody else IMMENSELY relieved that Angel didn't go into a flashback. Praise be! - --kg **** kg244989@oak.cats.ohiou.edu * http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1263 * No quote here. Move along. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:42:23 -0700 From: Sebastian Luberto Subject: BUFFY: Re:Teacher's Pet Hey Lewis!! Jilbert here. You wrote asking what was the episode Teacher's Pet about? It was the one about a new substitute teacher comes in to teach Buffy, Xander,and Willow's science class after their own regular teacher "mysterously" dissapears. This teacher attracts Xander who goes into his usual goofball hormone filled surge of energy. Later on in the episode the missing science teacher is found decapted in the school's kicten freezer by Cordelia. Also when Buffy is late for a class she sees the subsitute's teachers head do a "totally exoctist twist". Giles, Willow, and Buffy find out that the substitute teacher may be actually a really big bug-a praying mantis who preys on virgins (Xander) to be able to breed. When Buffy tries to tell this to Xander, he thinks she's just jealous and shares his views about the Angel character that we have all come to know so well thanks to this past week's episode. After Xander goes to the Teacher's house (cause she said she forgot the science project they were working on there) and gets drugged on a maritin confessing that he loves Buffy before fainting and getting dragged down into the bowels of the house by the teacher who is now transformed into her more comfortble state-a praying mantis. Right before the mantis breeds with Xander, Buffy and crew blow in and save the day. Buffy kicks the snot out of the mantis and kills it while Xander kills it's eggs. Highlight of the episode:was when Xander had the daydream at the beginning where he saved Buffy from some Vampires at the Bronze, is the big macho hero with some big macho words "Finish up this song and kiss you like you've never been kissed before." and then go up on stage at plays his air guitar. Sorry this was such a long summary and if anything is incorrect or missing I'm really sorry! I was rushing cause I got to go. I'll do better next time. - -Jilbert :) Jilbert Luberto- X-Phile,Relationshipper,Kevin Spacey AND Ewan McGregor nut, Buffnik, GASPer, and self acclamed quote queen. VISIT MY WEBPAGE!!! (please:) "THE PLUM" at: http://www.angelfire.com/ct/hellodollysbx/ "I have had the occasional run in with a anti-Hey that's my biker. And to those people I say nobody..nobody can eat 50 eggs." - -Troy(Ethan Hawke)"Reality Bites" "He became a myth..a spook story..rat on your pop and Keyser Soze will come and get ya." - -Verbal Klint(Kevin Spacey)"The Usual Suspects" "I laugh in the face of danger...then I hide till it goes away." - -Xander "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:45:54 GMT From: flagg@wwa.com (Flagg) Subject: Re: BUFFY: A Contract for Next Season On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:19:33 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: >Hi, All. > >Forgive me if this has already been posted, but I've finally been able = to >access the official site, and I pulled this off the postboard, from TV = James: > >"Angel's Fans - A bio, of sorts, will be available later today or early >tomorrow. Since he wasn't contracted when the shows were shot (he is >now, for next season), they didn't have a bio for him." > >Not only does this confirm next season, it means we haven't seen the = last of >Angel. Yes, I'm a very happy camper today! > Well, having him contracted for next season doesn't _necessarily_ mean that the show has been renewed. It's common practice to have all the major castmembers contracted for future seasons, even when such seasons are in doubt. It is a good sign , though. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:33:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Cagey Subject: BUFFY: I have a question... Somebody asked: > What's Buffy's mom's name? Somebody asked: > What's Willow's last name? Somebody asked: > When do the Canadians see the episodes? etc. etc. Guys, you're supposed to be giving Hendu and myself questions that we *haven't* answered in the FAQ. Challenge us! :) - --kg **** kg244989@oak.cats.ohiou.edu * http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1263 * Buffy FAQ: //www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1763/buffyfaq.html * No quote here. Move along. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 19:54:55 CDT From: Diane Westerfield Subject: Re: BUFFY: Fave character Woo! Woo! Another vote for Luke. I like the evil vampires given half a chance at character development: Luke, The Master, and Darla. (as opposed to the grubby extras). - --diane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:55:25 -0400 (EDT) From: IMALwayzMe@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: NY viewers And is that the new york time zone of just new york? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:07:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Cagey Subject: BUFFY: Darla, Angel vs. the vampire H O W M A N Y P A I R S O F S U N G L A S S E S does Kermit have? Jimmy wrote: > Maybe I'm missing something, but Darla was his girlfriend, not his mom. Darla said that she "created" him, I believe. Hence the mom references. > I know it's not possible, but I wanted to see him and buffy > stay together. If only to keep Xander's funny remarks. Who says we don't love the characters and want what's best for them? > Remember, Xander was the one who had the courage to say > Angel has to get the Axe. If you look carefully at how he says it, I > don't think his motive was to separate him from Buffy. Remember the > "it's not like you love the guy" line. He can be serious when he wants Urgh, I read that scene completely the opposite. I thought the "it's not..." line was more Xander trying to convince himself than anyone else. From: "Matthew Mitchel" > Why would the gypsies replace Angel's soul to punish the vampire. All > they did was punish someone who was not guilty of any crime. If they > really wanted to punish the vampire they should have buried him in a > deep hole or put a stake through his heart. Either You know, when I first read this I thought "Duh, if he's alive, he's suffering." But then I *read* it. If you consider Angel with soul as a different entity than The Vampire (ie the demon), this is a wonderful question. When Angel talked about killing his family, friends etc., he spoke as if he was not in control. It wasn't him, it was the vampire/demon. So by restoring Angel's soul, who did they really punish? The demon that killed the gypsy? Is Angel separate from that? In some respects from what we've learned, he's not. Going back to the example of Jesse, it was implied (I believe) that Jesse chose to become a vampire. Of course we didn't see that--is live as a vampire or die as a mortal a choice? And where the heck was Angel's soul, anyway? If the demon takes over and subsumes the soul, is the soul/incarnation of the person before they became a vampire trapped somewhere? The shriek that accompanies the death and poof! of a staked vamp is, I think, meant to be that of the demon going away. Is the mortal's soul then released when the body crumbles? Argh, this is getting too darned philosophical for me. Taiyin, Bast, want to talk about Fate instead ? - --kg **** kg244989@oak.cats.ohiou.edu * http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1263 * No quote here. Move along. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:56:29 -0400 From: Michael Krow Subject: Re: BUFFY: Angel Michael Podlesney wrote: > > boba.fett1@juno.com wrote: > > > > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:55:09 -0500 (CDT) Bast > > writes: > > >On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Rich & Terry Pfeifer wrote: > > > > > >> I remember an *awful* movie about vampires where they did, indeed > > >"cure" > > >> vampirism. They completely transfused the blood of the "vampire" > > >with human > > >> blood, and he was fine again. Seemed a little simplistic at the > > >time. > > >> > > >> But of course, I can't remember the name of the movie? Any help > > >here, guys? > > > > > >Oh, it would be "Near Dark," I believe. > > > > > > > Not sure, but another show where they attemted to cure vapirism was. Doh! > > Can't rememebr the name. Had Barnibus Collins. When they brought it > > back about a few years ago, they had tried to cure him through some > > strange treatment of his blood. Whatever. bye > > > > l8r > > -Lewis Miller > > > > | .-= Boba Fett =-. Linux, the choice of a GNU generation > > | ' -He's no good ` -Phreaks Rule!- > > | to me dead Email: boba.fett1@juno.com > > | Finger: boba.fett@matrix.uti.com > > | WEB site: http://www.uti.com/~boba.fett > I think that was something like Dark ____ i can't remember if it powers > or sides or whatever. > -galactic I think that was dark shadows ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:14:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Jill Kirby Subject: Re: BUFFY: Spoiler "Angel" ep/List Rules At 01:47 PM 4/15/97 -0600, pearss@saraleebake.com wrote: >Okay, this may rankle many of you, but this was the weakest of >the BtVS eps so far. Avoiding the ire of our ListKeepers will be a >challenge... (snip) This isn't dealing with the "Angel" part of the post, but the "ire" part of the post. ::ahem:: I am not an easy person to Ire. Neither is Sharon. We only get Ired when the rules are not followed. Well, actually, we'd also get Ired if you tried to take Sharon's beer or my marshmallow peeps. But that's off-topic. Along those lines, it's come to my attention that through an admin error (mine), many of you never received a copy of the list rules when you subscribed. This is my fault, and it means that many people have been onlist without a clue about what is/isn't list protocol. Mea culpa, everyone. I'm reposting the rules here. If you've read them already, sorry for the bandwidth use. If you haven't, please review and save for future reference. They're pretty straightforward. Questions should be directed offlist to one of us. ****** Welcome! This list is for discussion of "Buffy The Vampire Slayer," both the TV series and the movie. Because we want this list to be a great place to talk about "Buffy," we are setting up a few ground rules. If you've ever been involved in a discussion list, many of these rules will look familiar. Hopefully, they'll make list life more interesting (and more fun) for everyone. 1. Keep posts on topic. Topics should be related to Buffy the series, Buffy the movie, the actors involved in either project, etc.. Discussion of vampires in other universes is fine as long as they're being discussed in relation to the Buffy universe. 2. Please be careful with the use of strong imagery or language in consideration of younger list members. Think "rated PG." 3. No advertising of non-Buffy related items or services. If you want to post information about Buffy-related merchandise, conventions, etc., clear it through one of us first. Also, no binary files of any sort (including images, wavs, MOVs, etc). 4. Please don't post fiction to this list. There will be a separate Buffy fic list set up soon. 5. If you get advance information on a new episode, or see an episode earlier than the national viewing time, and you want to post about it, please do the following: **Mark the post as a "spoiler" in the subject header. **Leave about twelve lines (blank or with non-spoiler info) at the top of the post. This ensures that anyone who doesn't like knowing about an episode ahead of time is "protected." :) The blank space is for people whose mailers automatically open up the next piece of mail, without giving them a chance to see "spoiler" in the header. Spoiler warnings are not necessary after the start of the episode's national viewing time, which is currently set at 9 p.m. Mondays, Eastern Standard Time. Spoiler warnings are not necessary for reruns. 6. Most importantly, there will be ABSOLUTELY NO FLAMING ONLIST. We have absolutely zero tolerance for this kind of behaviour. Flames can kill a list, permanently damage relationships, and make life a lot less fun for everyone. What's a flame? NOT A FLAME: "I don't think so-and-so is a very good actor." FLAME: "So-and-so is a twit who can't act and has no brain." Broadly defined, a flame is a personally derogatory, inflammatory comment about another list member, their progenitors, or about any of the actors, writers, directors, producers or crew of "Buffy." Disagreements-- even heated ones-- are expected. But the minute you start slamming someone personally, you will face the Wrath of Jill and Sharon. First offense: offender is unsubscribed for one week. Second offense: offender is unsubscribed to the Buffy list for a minimum of three months. If the offender returns and flames again, they're offlist permanently. And no, it doesn't matter that the actors, writers, etc. from "Buffy" aren't onlist; we won't put up with anyone flaming them anyway. There are slander laws against it. It's also common courtesy. Determination of what is (and what is not) a flame is made by the listowners, and their decisions are final. Determinations of any penalties associated with flames are also made by the listowners, and their decisions are final. 7. Related to #6, the listowners reserve the right to "kill" any discussion threads which either of the listowners deem offensive, or which appear to be degenerating into a flame war. If either one of us declares a topic "dead," it's dead. Anyone who continues the discussion thread, against our express wishes, will be immediately noposted for one week. 8. And last, but not least, we reserve the right to deny subscription (new, renewed, or continued) to the list for any individual(s). Again, welcome! If you have any questions about these rules, please contact either one of us offlist. If you have subscription problems or questions, the fastest way to get help is to e-mail one of us at the addresses below, at the kirby@xmission.com addy which is the "official" e-mail owner of the list. **** Note: There are some internet conventions that we have not included in the rules, but that we ask you to follow out of courtesy to fellow listmembers. Please don't quote back entire messages and then add one line to the end-- edit out the quoted part to as few lines as possible. Please keep your .sig file at six lines or less. Please take things to private mail as often as possible. Please combine replies to multiple posts into one longer message. These conventions exist primarily to conserve bandwidth, which is the space an e-mail message takes up. Conserving bandwidth is a thing. It makes our digests smaller and our mailboxes happier. ** Jill Kirby (jtkirby@mcs.com) & Sharon Himmanen (romana@mindspring.com) Listowners, Buffy the Vampire Slayer Discussion List buffy@xmission.com *** Jill Kirby / jtkirby@mcs.com http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/4107 The NatPack - the seven deadly sins personified! --Maureen the Mad Just sitting here watching our barren lives pass us by. Oh, look, a cockroach. --Willow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:21:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Xinlei Du Subject: Re: BUFFY: Next week's episode > >OK, quick question. Which one was Teachers Pet? I thought I had seen >all of them. Right up until I missed Angel. Doh! I'm never gonna >forgive myself for that one. It's the one with the substitute teacher being a praying mantis. That one was weird...My brother was so grossed out! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:42:16 -0400 (EDT) From: EDraven708@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Re: BUFFY- Angel Episode [ Why not punish a Vampire with a soul? A lack of soul makes one a monster. A monster with a soul has the conscience that comes with it, not to menetion the regret of all it's past evils. I think it was an extremely effective punishment. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:44:11 +0000 From: "Laura Smith" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Darla, Angel vs. the vampire On 16 Apr 97 at 21:07, Cagey wrote: > > H > O > W > M > A > N > Y > P > A > I > R > S > O > F > S > U > N > G > L > A > S > S > E > S > does Kermit have? > > > Jimmy wrote: > > > > Remember, Xander was the one who had the courage to say > > Angel has to get the Axe. If you look carefully at how he says it, I > > don't think his motive was to separate him from Buffy. Remember the > > "it's not like you love the guy" line. He can be serious when he wants > > Urgh, I read that scene completely the opposite. I thought the > "it's not..." line was more Xander trying to convince himself than > anyone else. I had the same take on that line. Xander is in full denial about Buffy and what she feels for him - and Angel. > You know, when I first read this I thought "Duh, if he's alive, he's > suffering." But then I *read* it. If you consider Angel with soul > as a different entity than The Vampire (ie the demon), this is a > wonderful question. When Angel talked about killing his family, > friends etc., he spoke as if he was not in control. It wasn't him, > it was the vampire/demon. So by restoring Angel's soul, who did > they really punish? The demon that killed the gypsy? Is Angel > separate from that? I'd take it that the body is a vessel. The soul occupies the vessel until the vessel dies and then it leaves. The vessel can then be "reanimated" by a demon - in this case - what makes a vampire what it is. > And where the heck was Angel's soul, anyway? If the demon > takes over and subsumes the soul, is the soul/incarnation > of the person before they became a vampire trapped somewhere? > The shriek that accompanies the death and poof! of a staked > vamp is, I think, meant to be that of the demon going away. > Is the mortal's soul then released when the body crumbles? Ever seen a movie called "The Seventh Sign"? The theory was there's a place in heaven where souls go (The Gaf) and wait to be reborn. The body inhabited by the demon is dead - with the loss of the demon - - the body has nothing. What would be the result of a body not entombed over a couple of centuries? A fair guess would be - crumbling to dust. Laura J. Smith ljsmith@ilap.com http://www.ilap.com/~ljsmith Common sense ain't so common anymore.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:52:44 GMT From: savitri@mindspring.com (Lynne Nichols Simpson) Subject: BUFFY: No hope for Buffy & Angel? Bah! S P O I L E R P R O T E C T OMATIC! My prediction: if it turns out that the writers weren't planning all along to torment us for a *long time* with that romantic suspense, then I'll eat my hat. Heck, I'll eat all your hats, too. :-) Those two generate more heat than a river of molten lava. I thought I had *seen* romance on TV and in movies. Uh-uh. Nope. The episode worked, and then some, from start to finish, but the piece de resistance was the final scene. There would be tremendous physical pain involved in having a cross seared into one's flesh, but Angel didn't say a word, didn't do anything but kiss Buffy. Talk about being caught up in a moment... Vis a vis the comparisons to Ricean vampires, I think there are some mild similarities, but the storylines I've seen in Buffy work a lot better. Rice is the queen of the infinite tease. After a while, I kind of want *something* to happen, and Rice either doesn't deliver or does it too late or half-heartedly. Barbara Hambly's books, _Those Who Hunt the Night_ and _Traveling with the Dead_ (a sequel to the former), are excellent. Don Simon Ysidro, one of the main characters, is a Spanish nobleman who became a vampire in the 16th century. In many ways, Angel reminds me of him. I think there are many more Angel and Buffy storylines to be pursued. It's the Buffyverse -- Angel can be redeemed if the authors want him to be. :-) (Just not too quickly!) I hope they come out with videos of the episodes. Every one of them so far has been a keeper. My compliments to the list admins for being so dedicated to keeping this list in good shape! Lynne savitri@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:09:50 -0500 From: Greg Brower Subject: Re: BUFFY: Re: BUFFY- Angel Episode [ EDraven708@aol.com wrote: > > Why not punish a Vampire with a soul? A lack of soul makes one a monster. A > monster with a soul has the conscience that comes with it, not to menetion > the regret of all it's past evils. I think it was an extremely effective > punishment. This is true if you see the soul and vampire as the same entity. However, the punishments effectiveness is different if the soul is a separate entity from the Vampire. Then, it is an effective punishment for the Vampire, but seems rather cruel to the soul forced to cohabitate with the Vampire. From Angel's comments, it appears the Angel's soul also feels responsibility for past actions over which it had little control. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:13:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Cagey Subject: BUFFY: Quote lists, and etc. Lewis Miller wrote: > Would it be asking to much to have you repost the others. The Mad One's quote lists are online at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1763/buffy.html > Can't rememebr the name. Had Barnibus Collins. When they brought it > back about a few years ago, they had tried to cure him through some That would be Dark Shadows . I miss Dark Shadows. > OK, quick question. Which one was Teachers Pet? I thought I had seen Teacher's Pet features a nice science teacher who doesn't last long, and a not so nice substitute science teacher who prefers Xander sandwiches for lunch. For a good summary of the ep, try the episode guide at http://www.ultimatetv.com/wb/buffy/show/guides/ - --kg **** kg244989@oak.cats.ohiou.edu * http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1263 * No quote here. Move along. ------------------------------ End of buffy Digest V1 #26 ************************** To subscribe to buffy Digest, send the command: subscribe buffy-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@xmission.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-buffy": subscribe buffy-digest local-buffy@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "buffy-digest" in the commands above with "buffy". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/buffy/archive. These are organized by date.