From: buffy-owner@xmission.com (buffy Digest) To: buffy-digest@xmission.com Subject: buffy Digest V1 #103 Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com Sender: buffy-owner@xmission.com Errors-To: buffy-owner@xmission.com Precedence: buffy Digest Friday, May 30 1997 Volume 01 : Number 103 In this issue: Re: BUFFY: Vampire question Re: BUFFY: Top 10 Things Buffy does on Summer Vacation Re: BUFFY: my two cents on Angel question Re: BUFFY: Top 10 Things Buffy does on Summer Vacation Re: BUFFY: Vampire question Re: BUFFY: Name for us Buffy fans Re: BUFFY: Top 10 Things Buffy does on Summer Vacation BUFFY: Re: Top 10 things Buffy does on Summer Vacation BUFFY: MASTER Re: BUFFY: Vampire question Re: BUFFY: MASTER Re: BUFFY: Vampire question Re: Can true Vamps "love"? (Was Re: BUFFY: Darla's Broken Heart) BUFFY: AGE/GRADE: sophmores at a prom. Re: BUFFY: Vampire question Re: BUFFY: license plates Re: BUFFY: Vampire question Re: BUFFY: MASTER BUFFY: Buffy Chat Re: BUFFY: license plates Re: BUFFY: license plates Re: Can true Vamps "love"? (Was Re: BUFFY: Darla's Broken Heart) Re: BUFFY: MASTER Re: Can true Vamps "love"? (Was Re: BUFFY: Darla's Broken Heart) Re: BUFFY: David, his dog, and Family Re: BUFFY: Vampire question Re: BUFFY: Re: Top 10 things Buffy does on Summer Vacation Re: BUFFY: Can Vampires love & desposing of unwanted night crawlers.... Re: BUFFY: AGE/GRADE: sophmores at a prom. Re: BUFFY: Vampire question (LONG) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:18:13 -0700 From: Jennifer Hawthorne Subject: Re: BUFFY: Vampire question At 12:24 PM 5/29/97 -0700, thus sprake hbaraza@ucdavis.edu: [Discussion of "Lost Boys" vampires snipped] The trouble with discussing the mechanics of vampirism is that there are as many different versions of the mythology of vampires as there are authors who write about them. Joss's version of where vampires come from (humans taken over by a demon through the ingestion of demonic blood) doesn't fit any other vampire lore I know of, though I certainly don't claim to know everything ever written about vampires. In one of Cecil Adam's "Straight Dope" columns, someone writes in asking how to kill a vampire; Cecil's research shows that the method for properly disposing of a vampire differs from country to country, so "The first step in killing a vampire is determining its nationality. How exactly you do this is *your* problem." In short, trying to mix vampire mythologies of different sources just makes a huge mess, though it can be amusing to speculate. Just try reconciling Bram Stoker's Count Dracula with the "Masquerade" RPG vampires, or with Gregory von Bayern from John Ford's "The Dragon Waiting" (my personal favorite vampire character), or with Chelsea Quinn Yarbro's Ragotzy St. Germain. That way lies madness and stabbing pain. >This could be a possibility for making Angel "human" again. [snip] But then again, the restoring of his soul by the Romani >gypsies in my opinion makes Angel partly human. > >What do you think? I think the obvious mystical answer is to do an exorcism on Angel to get rid of the demonic part of his nature. This wouldn't work on an ordinary vamp since you'd be left with a dead body, the human soul having departed. But I don't see why, theoretically, it wouldn't work on Angel. If you want a slightly more "scientific" method, you may also have to drain out all of Angel's vampiric blood and replace it with pure human blood. (Which shouldn't be a problem since Angel appears to have an account at some local blood bank or another.) That might get rid of the demonic influence. - -- Maytree - ------------------------------------------------------- Jennifer Hawthorne :: jen@pacwest.DIESPAM.net [To reply to this message, remove DIESPAM from address] - ------------------------------------------------------- "That much quality time with my Mom would probably lead to some quality matricide." - -- Buffy Summers [Buffy the Vampire Slayer: The Witch] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:18:05 -0700 From: Jennifer Hawthorne Subject: Re: BUFFY: Top 10 Things Buffy does on Summer Vacation At 02:29 PM 5/29/97 EDT, thus sprake funee@juno.com: >#5. Help Giles find a girlfriend. >#4. Get Willow and Xander together. Buffy as "Emma." Terrifying idea! (Though I suppose you could say "Clueless" already did that.) And Giles has a perfectly good girlfriend prospect in Ms. Calender. - -- Maytree - ------------------------------------------------------- Jennifer Hawthorne :: jen@pacwest.DIESPAM.net [To reply to this message, remove DIESPAM from address] - ------------------------------------------------------- "That much quality time with my Mom would probably lead to some quality matricide." - -- Buffy Summers [Buffy the Vampire Slayer: The Witch] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:18:23 -0700 From: Jennifer Hawthorne Subject: Re: BUFFY: my two cents on Angel question At 04:37 PM 5/29/97 -0700, thus sprake Lawless: > He had enough compassion >not to read her diary and offer to sleep on the floor, I think he'd also >havbe enough compassion to leave out the fromt door instead of ruining a >window by throwing himself out of it. On the other hand, he might well have thrown himself out the window to keep from giving in to the urge to feed on Buffy. During the confrontation in the bar he says "I can walk like a man, but I'm not one. I wanted to kill you tonight." I think I still favor the "Buffy threw him out the window" theory, but there is at least a plausible reason he might have crashed through the window voluntarily. - -- Maytree - ------------------------------------------------------- Jennifer Hawthorne :: jen@pacwest.DIESPAM.net [To reply to this message, remove DIESPAM from address] - ------------------------------------------------------- "That much quality time with my Mom would probably lead to some quality matricide." - -- Buffy Summers [Buffy the Vampire Slayer: The Witch] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:18:37 -0700 From: Jennifer Hawthorne Subject: Re: BUFFY: Top 10 Things Buffy does on Summer Vacation At 07:18 PM 5/29/97 -0500, thus sprake shannon howe: >>#2. Nail Angel. >shouldn't this be stake angel???? No. It most definitely shouldn't. - -- Maytree - ------------------------------------------------------- Jennifer Hawthorne :: jen@pacwest.DIESPAM.net [To reply to this message, remove DIESPAM from address] - ------------------------------------------------------- "That much quality time with my Mom would probably lead to some quality matricide." - -- Buffy Summers [Buffy the Vampire Slayer: The Witch] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 00:46:41 -0500 From: "Kristy" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Vampire question ---- From: Jennifer Hawthorne To: buffy@xmission.com Date: Friday, May 30, 1997 12:31 AM Subject: Re: BUFFY: Vampire question :At 12:24 PM 5/29/97 -0700, thus sprake hbaraza@ucdavis.edu: :Joss's version of where vampires come from (humans :taken over by a demon through the ingestion of demonic blood) doesn't fit :any other vampire lore I know of, though I certainly don't claim to know :everything ever written about vampires : :-- Maytree (Snipped some) Actually, this was the theory used by Anne Rice in, um, Queen of the Damned, (I think). Her theory was that a demon attacked a dying king, sucked up his blood and became stuck in his body, then he gave some of the tainted blood to his queen and so on, and so on, so the premise is similiar. Of course, since Vampire are, of course, folklore, then whatever a writer wanted to decide about them he could. It's all subjective. Oh, by the way, hi, everyone. I just joined the list about two minutes ago. Kristy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 00:49:44 -0500 From: "Kristy" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Name for us Buffy fans I vote emphatically against Buffy's Slaymates. It sounds like Playboy meets Tales from the Crypt. Kristy ---- From: Surya Sen To: buffy@xmission.com Date: Friday, May 30, 1997 12:41 AM Subject: Re: BUFFY: Name for us Buffy fans :So far we have three possible names: : :Slayerettes (A Willow derivative) :The Slayer's Legion :Buffy's Slaymates : :Any others? What do people think of these? You can write me personally :or on the list about your opinions on names or just the idea itself. : :Surge :Keeper of Buffy's Shadow : : : ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:58:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Sonja Marie Subject: Re: BUFFY: Top 10 Things Buffy does on Summer Vacation I might be wrong, but I think she meant that in a whole other light, not killing him, ever hear of a double entendre? On Thu, 29 May 1997, shannon howe wrote: > At 02:29 PM 5/29/97 EDT, you wrote: > >#2. Nail Angel. > shouldn't this be stake angel???? > rayVen Sonja Marie - The White Rose @--'->-- http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/sonja.html Co-Pres. of the Jeff Fahey IFC - http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/fahey.html Paul Wylie Fan Pages - http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/pwylie/pwylie.html Owner of the Jeff Fahey Mailing List & The Paul Wylie Mailing List Pres. of Giles Appreciation Society Panters -GASP!- Keeper of Giles' Coats&Ties ASH Appreciation Society Member - Watch Buffy: the Vampire Slayer - Series! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 02:00:36 EDT From: funee@juno.com Subject: BUFFY: Re: Top 10 things Buffy does on Summer Vacation >From: shannon howe >>#2. Nail Angel. >> >shouldn't this be stake angel???? Well, Shannon... Actually, I used the term "nail" jokingly, with a sexual connotation in mind -- Buffy and Angel as lovers...but if they have a big quarrel, I guess she could end up staking him. That's why I'm really against such mixed relationships. You know how it is, one person is a Slayer whose mission in life is to kill Vampires and the other person is a Vampire...well, you can just see they're in for a rocky relationship right from the beginning. And think of the children! My gosh, what happens if there are little Buffy's and little Angels? True, the little tikes may look cute with their little sharp incisors but, what a problem raising them...feeding them for one thing. Call me a bigot, but, them vampires just ain't as good as us humans. They can attend our schools but I don't want them dating my sister. funee (: ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:21:31 -0500 From: hyphema@webtv.net Subject: BUFFY: MASTER what on earth do you suppose the MASTER does with his days stuck down in "never-never land"? watches tv? (maybe, but probably not "sunset beach"...). i can tell you what he's `ain't' doing: 1. sweeping. 2. mopping. 3. dusting (except in the killing sense). geez, ya know, the least he could do is have a meal ready when the "kids" get home! hyphema:-[ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:33:54 -0700 From: Jennifer Hawthorne Subject: Re: BUFFY: Vampire question Hi Kristy, and welcome -- At 12:46 AM 5/30/97 -0500, thus sprake Kristy: [I said] >:Joss's version of where vampires come from (humans >:taken over by a demon through the ingestion of demonic blood) doesn't fit >:any other vampire lore I know of, though I certainly don't claim to know >:everything ever written about vampires >Actually, this was the theory used by Anne Rice in, um, Queen of the >Damned, (I think). Her theory was that a demon attacked a dying king, >sucked up his blood and became stuck in his body, then he gave some of the >tainted blood to his queen and so on, and so on, so the premise is >similiar. Don't know much about Anne Rice's Vampire stuff; I tried to read "Interview" and gave up about two chapters in. Just don't see what people get out of her :-/ But while the vampire=demon stuff aligns, I didn't get the impression from the IwtVamp movie that Ricean Vampires necessarily lost their human souls when they were changed. Louis certainly seemed to still have a soul, as did several of the other vamps. Also, is it part of Rice's mythos that demons once ruled the world but then somehow lost dominion to the upstart human "animals," as it is in Buffy, or are her demons really the generic supernatural style demon, around from the beginning of time just to hang out and mess with people's minds and souls? One of the more unusual facets of the BuffyVamp mythos is the idea that Vamps are descended from race of completely non-human intelligent beings -- Demons -- that once ruled the planet and are cheesed off that they've lost their dominance to the lowly human animals. (I'd really like to know exactly how that happened...) The idea that the primeval world was not the Garden of Eden but, instead, the Gates of Hell, is unique to Buffy, to the best of my knowledge. (Which, again, is nowhere near authoritative, but hey, you work with what you have.) - -- Maytree - ------------------------------------------------------- Jennifer Hawthorne :: jen@pacwest.DIESPAM.net [To reply to this message, remove DIESPAM from address] - ------------------------------------------------------- "Now, we can do this the hard way, or... well, actually, there's just the hard way." - -- Buffy Summers [Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Welcome to the H-Mouth] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:38:20 -0700 From: Jennifer Hawthorne Subject: Re: BUFFY: MASTER At 01:21 AM 5/30/97 -0500, thus sprake hyphema@webtv.net: >what on earth do you suppose the MASTER does with his days stuck down in >"never-never land"? He and Colin take turns skipping stones in the Pool of Blood? Or playing Parcheesi? > geez, ya know, the least he could >do is have a meal ready when the "kids" get home! Hey, he can't exactly jog out to the Safeway for butter and eggs, you know! And when he tells the kids to bring home the groceries so they can all have a nice dinner, they go and let the food escape, or eat half of it before they get it home! The youth of today are all slackers, even the Vampires ;) - -- Maytree - ------------------------------------------------------- Jennifer Hawthorne :: jen@pacwest.DIESPAM.net [To reply to this message, remove DIESPAM from address] - ------------------------------------------------------- Timov: "I won't bite, Vir." Vir: "With all due respect, Madame, that's not what I've heard." Timov "All right, that one time." Vir: "Twice." - -- < Babylon 5: Soul Mates > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 00:40:53 -0600 From: Jon Morrow Subject: Re: BUFFY: Vampire question Jennifer Hawthorne wrote: > > research shows that the method for properly disposing of a vampire differs > from country to country, so "The first step in killing a vampire is > determining its nationality. How exactly you do this is *your* problem." > > > > > > > And in this same vein(boo! hiss!), the symbols which evoke fear in and cause damage to a vampire must also vary from religion to religion. I mean, can you think of any reason why a Jewish vampire should fear a cross? I can't. I would imagine that such a creature would react thus to a Star of David. Which leaves me wondering what a Muslim vampire or a Buddhist vampire would react to - those particular faiths eschew images to a great extent. And of course, we come to the same question about atheist or agnostic vampires. I guess the best answer is: Whatever the writer decides! Jon. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 00:46:58 -0600 From: Jon Morrow Subject: Re: Can true Vamps "love"? (Was Re: BUFFY: Darla's Broken Heart) > I'm inclined toward the vampire as alien species theory. They are predators, and humanity is their normal prey. They probably do have some kind of "feelings" about each other, but it would be a mistake to think these feelings are anything at all like human emotions. The curse which the Romany laid on Angel is a perfect act of vengeance! He feels again. Gawd! How it must hurt! Jon. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 02:58:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Raininfire@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: AGE/GRADE: sophmores at a prom. >(BTW, if they're going to show a prom episode, how many of you went to your >prom your _sophomore_ year?) >Joseph At my high school there was a junior and senior prom. However, quite a few sophmores and even freshmen went to them. Therefore, the Buffy/prom storyline is entirely possible. Raininfire@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 02:02:42 -0500 From: "Kristy" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Vampire question I haven't seen all of the episodes of Buffy yet, but what I have seen is completely unique. Which is very impressive, considering how much has been written about vampires (I must admit here, to being the author of three such novels when I was fifteen 8-P). Alot of vampire fiction is piecing together different ideas of what vampires are, but the vampires from Buffy are original. I'm especially impressed with the lack of soul/but Angel is cursed with a soul storyline. And as for Anne Rice, her vampires were more like regular people who didn't like the sun and drank blood. Older vampires could survive the sun, crucifix's didn't bother them, or holy water, and they felt guilt and remorse and confusion and all that... I was only comparing the origination of the vampires, along the lines of demons, that are similiar. Anne Rice (no offense to any fans of her here) is not exactly known for her original characters or continuity, but that's another mailing list.... Kristy ---- From: Jennifer Hawthorne To: buffy@xmission.com Date: Friday, May 30, 1997 1:48 AM Subject: Re: BUFFY: Vampire question :Hi Kristy, and welcome -- : :At 12:46 AM 5/30/97 -0500, thus sprake Kristy: : :[I said] :>:Joss's version of where vampires come from (humans :>:taken over by a demon through the ingestion of demonic blood) doesn't fit :>:any other vampire lore I know of, though I certainly don't claim to know :>:everything ever written about vampires : :>Actually, this was the theory used by Anne Rice in, um, Queen of the :>Damned, (I think). Her theory was that a demon attacked a dying king, :>sucked up his blood and became stuck in his body, then he gave some of the :>tainted blood to his queen and so on, and so on, so the premise is :>similiar. : :Don't know much about Anne Rice's Vampire stuff; I tried to read "Interview" :and gave up about two chapters in. Just don't see what people get out of her ::-/ But while the vampire=demon stuff aligns, I didn't get the impression :from the IwtVamp movie that Ricean Vampires necessarily lost their human :souls when they were changed. Louis certainly seemed to still have a soul, :as did several of the other vamps. Also, is it part of Rice's mythos that :demons once ruled the world but then somehow lost dominion to the upstart :human "animals," as it is in Buffy, or are her demons really the generic :supernatural style demon, around from the beginning of time just to hang out :and mess with people's minds and souls? : :One of the more unusual facets of the BuffyVamp mythos is the idea that :Vamps are descended from race of completely non-human intelligent beings - -- :Demons -- that once ruled the planet and are cheesed off that they've lost :their dominance to the lowly human animals. (I'd really like to know exactly :how that happened...) The idea that the primeval world was not the Garden of :Eden but, instead, the Gates of Hell, is unique to Buffy, to the best of my :knowledge. (Which, again, is nowhere near authoritative, but hey, you work :with what you have.) : :-- Maytree : :------------------------------------------------------- : Jennifer Hawthorne :: jen@pacwest.DIESPAM.net :[To reply to this message, remove DIESPAM from address] :------------------------------------------------------- :"Now, we can do this the hard way, or... well, actually, there's :just the hard way." :-- Buffy Summers [Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Welcome to the H-Mouth] : : : : ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 00:14:19 PDT From: "~*Violet Starr*~" Subject: Re: BUFFY: license plates >> Ms. Calender: netgoth >Hey, Ms. Calender's not a Goth. She wears colors >other than black, and she doesn't mope *nearly* >enough you don't have to dress in all black or mope all the time to be concidered Goth.with that kind of thinking It makes Goth sound like a style, not a attitude. some people have jobs that require them to dress a certin way. afew more for Delia.... MINE GIVE ME MSTHING WHATEVR - -Violet Buffy_SLayer@hotmail.com Member of GASPer keeper of: The Masters Children ,Giles' Dreams & Cordelia's MayQueen Dress& Everyones dreams & nigtmares!!:) The Slayer's LAir Cordelia's list is on my page! †CHOSEN1† - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 02:41:45 -0600 From: Jill Gillham Subject: Re: BUFFY: Vampire question >who write about them. Joss's version of where vampires come from (humans >taken over by a demon through the ingestion of demonic blood) doesn't fit >any other vampire lore I know of, though I certainly don't claim to know >everything ever written about vampires. Closest I've seen so far has been Nancy Collin's Sonja Blue books, which has something of the same theory. Speaking of which, I've seen a print crossover between Sonja Blue and Kindred that Collins wrote. Seems like she might fit in well with the Buffyverse too. Jill Gillham jilkey@grfn.org http://members.aol.com/~ferndock2 \|/ \|/ D=|[[] "All-arm'd I ride, whate'er betide, =0: + =0: = \O/ Until I find the Holy Grail." /|\ /|\ |*| -- Alfred, Lord Tennyson [Go WINGS!] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 02:45:34 -0600 From: Jill Gillham Subject: Re: BUFFY: MASTER >what on earth do you suppose the MASTER does with his days stuck down in >"never-never land"? watches tv? (maybe, but probably not "sunset >beach"...). I'd say he spends his days with a huge stack of Broadway show tune records. In fact, he picked up most of his parenting skills by listening to the Miss Hannigan part in "Annie" Jill Gillham jilkey@grfn.org http://members.aol.com/~ferndock2 \|/ \|/ D=|[[] "All-arm'd I ride, whate'er betide, =0: + =0: = \O/ Until I find the Holy Grail." /|\ /|\ |*| -- Alfred, Lord Tennyson [Go WINGS!] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 00:55:52 PDT From: "~*Violet Starr*~" Subject: BUFFY: Buffy Chat since I'm using webtv I have had problems using the postingboard (at the Bonze doesn't fully load) and the chat rooms (bronze)(won't let me register). Does anyone knw of a chat place that has a room for BTVS fans? one that you don't need frames, Java, or have to down load anything to use..... thanks Violet Buffy_SLayer@hotmail.com Member of GASPer keeper of: The Masters Children ,Giles' Dreams & Cordelia's MayQueen Dress& Everyones dreams & nigtmares!!:) http://members.tripod.com/~buffy_slayer Cordelia's list is on my page! †CHOSEN1† - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 03:59:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Hendricks Ng Subject: Re: BUFFY: license plates Maytree said: > At 02:40 PM 5/28/97 PDT, thus sprake ~*Violet Starr*~: > > > Cordelia: allthat (her opion!) > MEMEME (perfect plate!) or PERFECT CHARGER (gotta throw in those real-world connections) Darn, can't remember the name of the song that she sang in the talent show. Fashion points for someone who can come up with a plate based on the song title :P Someone mentioned how disgusted he was about Luke Perry portraying a teenager yet he was like 30 RL. Charisma Chase is in her late twenties (27 I think) so she's also pushin' the teenager envelope (but not as bad as Dick Clark is) Marcie: LISTEN LOOK LEARN yadda yadda yadda Angel: GYPSYBTR SOULFUL Willow: XANPHILE (for XANder-PHILE) Xander: DANCEFVR Buffy: KEEN XBOW-LVR Pennsylvania used to let 8 letters on their plates... but I'm not sure with all these new-fangled "Tiger" and "wilderness" plates. ... ObBuffyXover: Dick Clark is really an immortal Vampire hosting "The American BuffyStand: Grooves to Slay to" -- Buffy's silhouette appears behind a screen and she bounces out, dancing in her Buffy Boots and staking retro-fashion-junkie vampire dancers and teeny-boppers. - -- Hendu * hendu@usa.net * http://www.personal.psu.edu/hxn106 Willo'Wisp WHAM! * Buffy FAQ helper * Keeper of Buffy's Black Boots FAQ: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1763/buffyfaq.html Buffy The Vampire Slayer * WB Network Mon 9pm "A suspicious heart will see imaginary ghosts." -- Chinese proverb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 04:02:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Hendricks Ng Subject: Re: BUFFY: license plates I goofed by posting: > > Someone mentioned how disgusted he was about Luke Perry portraying a > teenager yet he was like 30 RL. Charisma Chase is in her late twenties er Charisma Carpenter - --Hendu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:32:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: Can true Vamps "love"? (Was Re: BUFFY: Darla's Broken Heart) At 10:17 PM 5/29/97 -0700, Jennifer Hawthorne wrote: >Hmmmm...since I don't believe either Darla or the before-curse Angel could >have been capable of "love," I don't think it's fair to hold Angel >responsible for breaking Darla's heart. In *that* meaning of the word >"heart," she doesn't have one to be broken. Darla said that the saddest thing in the world was to love someone who didn't love you back. Despite the fact that she was otherwise an amoral butcheress, I believed her when she said that. She really wanted Angel back for personal reasons. She told the Master so. You can call it animal lust (an interesting question is why vampires would still feel lust ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 02:47:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: MASTER At 01:21 AM 5/30/97 -0500, hyphema@webtv.net wrote: >what on earth do you suppose the MASTER does with his days >stuck down in "never-never land"? watches tv? He plays his fiddle (long screechy chords), answers his fan(g) mail (opening each envelope with razor tipped fingernails), applies a refreshing lava pack to his face, and then sneaks above ground for a few thrills in his favorite disguise, Cordelia Chase! Colin wanders around the lair looking for rodents to impale and set fire to. BTW, the original post and subsequent replies to this thread have had me ROTFL! Lisa Keeper of Buffy's diary (full of Angel fantasies) Keeper of Angel's slashed t-shirt (full of Angel blood) Keeper of Giles' stutter (cute little thing that it is) Life is short, slay hard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 02:47:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: Can true Vamps "love"? (Was Re: BUFFY: Darla's Broken Heart) Whoops! My previous post on this thread was accidently sent out half-finished. Here's how it should have read: At 10:17 PM 5/29/97 -0700, Jennifer Hawthorne wrote: >Hmmmm...since I don't believe either Darla or the before-curse Angel could >have been capable of "love," I don't think it's fair to hold Angel >responsible for breaking Darla's heart. In *that* meaning of the word >"heart," she doesn't have one to be broken. Darla said that the saddest thing in the world was to love someone who didn't love you back. Despite the fact that she was otherwise an amoral butcheress, I believed her when she said that. She really wanted Angel back for personal reasons. She told the Master so. You can call it pure animal lust (an interesting question is why vampires would still feel lust if they can neither love, nor procreate), but she nonetheless hungered for him (and him alone, I believe). He did break her "heart" by leaving her and later falling in love with a slayer. She probably felt betrayed. But he couldn't help it. No being with a moral soul could enjoy a relationship with a cruel and remorseless vampire. I don't hold it against Angel. I just found the double meaning of "breaking Darla's heart" to be interesting. Lisa "Maybe I'm underestimating her. Talk to her. Tell her about the curse. Maybe she'll come around." -- Darla, speaking to Angel about Buffy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 03:51:55 -0700 From: slayerbwcs@webtv.net (Guadalupe Mejia) Subject: Re: BUFFY: David, his dog, and Family Why are we talking about Lucy Lawless here? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:50:16 -0400 From: "Santiago" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Vampire question a buncha people are answering this, so i'm gonna piece a buncha topics into one and respond that way :> delete as you will GhostWriter asks: (re:Lost Boys and the Master) > My question: Could killing the lead/master vampire restore the > humanity of a vampire who was converted by the lead/master vampire > either directly or indirectly (through one of the lead vampire's > servants/minions)? i think that version only worked because the new vamp in question had yet to take human life (or feed). i don't think this would work in Buffyverse for the main reason that the Vampires are merely vessels for demons, the human soul is gone, the body is already willing. It's one thing to be a human and drink your first drop of blood, but Buffy- vamps are demons, and have lost their souls, so you kill the master and you've got a WHOLE MESS of pissed of younger vamps.... unless of course, you listen to Joe... Joe says: > This seems like a valid possibility. I should point out, however, > that there's another option: Anne Rice's vampires all descend > from a single "Master" vampire (Akasha from _The Queen of the > Damned_) as well, but in her universe, if the Master dies, all the > subsidiary vampires do, too. that's a nice point, the reason that this is, each vamp takes a piece of the demon essence when it becomes a vampire. Lestat gave Louis a piece of his demon, Magnus gave Lestat a piece of his demon, whoever gave Magnus a piece of his demon, etc... all leading back to th'bigun, The First Vampire, and when she dies, the demon is released from her, and when it's released it loses it's hold on the mortal plain, and therefore loses it's hold on vampires which then all "die" That would kinda suck for th'show though, because then Buffy would have less stuff to slay... and what happens to the power of a slayer when there are no Vampires? she might lose it and become "normal" (what a hideous thought!) another way this could all be solved: if you kill the Master, the next most powerful Vampire simply takes his place, which works out nice if Mark decides he doesn't want to do th'show anymore. i think i've babbled enough now, so back to my regularily scheduled insanity Santiago, the Mad Vampyre ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 07:29:30 PDT From: "Amiee Collier" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Re: Top 10 things Buffy does on Summer Vacation On Fri, 30 May 1997 02:00:36 EDT, funee wrote: >And think >of the children! My gosh, what happens if there are little Buffy's and >little Angels? True, the little tikes may look cute with their little >sharp incisors but, what a problem raising them...feeding them for one >thing. It's funny you should mention this (even in a joking manner). I watched 'A Vampire in Brooklyn' (simply because it's on Cinemax) and, if I remember correctly, Angela Bassett's character was half-human/ half/vampire. Her mother had a 'thing' with a vampire in the Islands and they had a daughter. Did anyone else see this? Does anyone have thoughts about a half-vampire possibility? Amiee http://members.tripod.com/~AE_Collier/nicholas.html - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:33:34 EDT From: archangel-ichiban@juno.com (Charles U. Farley) Subject: Re: BUFFY: Can Vampires love & desposing of unwanted night crawlers.... Salutations fellow Slayerites, I am the Archangel (No relation to the handsome soulful recovering blood-aholic). And being that this is my first response EVER, I beg your forgiveness for any indiscretions or ramblings. They are purely accidental. In regards to the question of Vampire's being capable of love: Looking back towards one of the first Undead, Dracula. Whether you favor Bela Lugosi or Gary Oldman, both depicted the dear Count as a forlorn cursed soul seeking companionship. Admittedly, Dracula was not known as the cuddly type but you can't say he wasn't passionate. Now whether or not this lust for a partner is driven by loneliness or just as a short diversion to immortality, who can say. However, has no one else ever heard that Vampires are the MOST fervent creatures of them all. Are they not considered the most erotic of all "monsters". The thrill of taking anothers life force from a willing submissive, the hunt, the pompous way they wield power of humankind. Unemotional??? Perhaps I'm reacting to a wanton jealousy of said power. But it is alluring, isn't it? As stated numerous times, Buffy Vampire mythos stands alone but its something to think about. As a final note to this subject: Does soul-less imply emotionless or does it rather imply a total lack of morals.......or Human morals as the case may be. Rules and ethics of humankind, including those of the heart, do not apply to those who are not. And briefly, on the subject of "turning" the undead of different races & religions: I have always subscribed to the view that using a religious icon to repell a Vampire had more to do with "faith" and confidence rather than pious accuracy. Granted if one is going to take part in the act of "slaying", I would think that getting background information would be the prudent course. Being a faithless pessimist myself, I'll apt for the stake and beheading treatment. Even it doesn't destroy all types of Vampires, it'll sting like the dickens and sure slow 'em down until Buffy gets there. >Someone recently wrote: >Hmmmm...since I don't believe either Darla or the before-curse Angel could >have been capable of "love," I don't think it's fair to hold Angel >responsible for breaking Darla's heart. In *that* meaning of the word >"heart," she doesn't have one to be broken. You try breaking a womans heart, especially an immortal woman, most especially a Vampiric immortal woman, and see if your surprised that she comes after you with "John Woo" double guns a blazing. Revelation??? I think not. There it is my first ever Internet response. Given the extent of rambling above, I appreciate your patience. The Archangel.......... Keeper of nothing in particular yet but perhaps someday.... (sigh) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kudos to Lisa Rose for: "Life is Short, Slay Hard!" Infringements aside, I do believe we've found a new catch phrase....... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:40:42 -0700 From: Lawless Subject: Re: BUFFY: AGE/GRADE: sophmores at a prom. Raininfire@aol.com wrote: > At my high school there was a junior and senior prom. However, quite a few > sophmores and even freshmen went to them. Therefore, the Buffy/prom > storyline is entirely possible. Raininfire@aol.com Same way as with my school, although the only way a sophomore or freshmen went was with a junior or senior, and I doubt the gang's all going to be asked to the prom by upperclassmen. My guess is that they're going to all decide to go dateless and as a group. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 11:02:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Robin Carroll-Mann Subject: Re: BUFFY: Vampire question (LONG) On Fri, 30 May 1997, Jon Morrow wrote: > And in this same vein(boo! hiss!), the symbols which evoke fear in and > cause damage to a vampire must also vary from religion to religion. I > mean, can you think of any reason why a Jewish vampire should fear a > cross? Gee, it seems only yesterday that the Forever Knight list was hashing this one over... :-) There are two possibilities. One is that Christianity is the True Religion, and therefore its holy symbols have intrinsic power. Since I'm a Jew, this theory is not my first choice. It does seem to be the operating assumption in much of early European vampire literature (like "Dracula"). Another possibility, and one that I like much better, is that the believer infuses spiritual power into the holy object (perhaps reinforced by the collective belief of his/her religion). In this theory, the cross holds power because the wielder (and millions of other Christians) believes that it does. I'm remembering the "Dr.Who" episode in which an atheist Russian soldier passes safely through a gauntlet of vampires because he's holding a hammer-and-sickle pin, emblem of the Communist Party in which he (and millions of others) fervently believes. (note to non-Whovians: this took place during WW II.) There is no reason why this theory can't apply to the Buffyverse. True, we have only seen a cross used so far, but remember that it *is* the preferred item in the Western tradition, and I would guess that Buffy is nominally a Christian. A variant of this theory would say that all religions are like facets of a crystal, all reflecting the same Light. In this instance, the Russian soldier would be out of luck. > I can't. I would imagine that such a creature would react thus > to a Star of David. Allow me to be picky. While the Star of David ('mogen David', literally 'shield of David') has been a Jewish symbol for a long time, it has not been primarily a *religious* symbol, let alone a holy one. In Matheson's "I am Legend" (about the lone remaining human in a world of vampires), the hero goes after a Jewish vampire with a Torah (handwritten scroll containing the first five books of the Jewish bible). Another good choice might be a mezuzah -- the little metal ornament you see on door frame of a Jewish home. It contains a scroll inscribed with certain Torah verses, and includes the Tetragrammaton, the 4-letter acronym of God's unpronouncable Name. Either of these would have much more power over a demon than a Star of David, which is more analagous to the Irish shamrock. > Which leaves me wondering what a Muslim vampire or > a Buddhist vampire would react to - those particular faiths eschew > images to a great extent. And of course, we come to the same question > about atheist or agnostic vampires. It all depends on whether the power of the holy symbol lies in the belief of the person who holds it, or in the belief of the person that the vampire used to be. If the latter, then perhaps a Koran would work on a Muslim vampire. I know very little about Buddhism, except that it encompasses many sects and practices. Perhaps a prayer wheel? > I guess the best answer is: > Whatever the writer decides! > Jon. Good one! And now I'd better end this epic (anyone still with me?) Harper *** Robin Carroll-Mann harper@idt.net (formerly harper@tribeca.ios.com) "Mostly Harmless" -- Douglas Adams ------------------------------ End of buffy Digest V1 #103 *************************** To subscribe to buffy Digest, send the command: subscribe buffy-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@xmission.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-buffy": subscribe buffy-digest local-buffy@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "buffy-digest" in the commands above with "buffy". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/buffy/archive. These are organized by date.