From: buffy-owner@xmission.com (buffy Digest) To: buffy-digest@xmission.com Subject: buffy Digest V1 #305 Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com Sender: buffy-owner@xmission.com Errors-To: buffy-owner@xmission.com Precedence: buffy Digest Thursday, September 18 1997 Volume 01 : Number 305 In this issue: BUFFY: In response to part of a post comparing Holocaust to Buffy Re: BUFFY: Link with the Master and killing bad guys BUFFY: Re: BUFFY vs. ALLY BUFFY: Official Buffy website BUFFY: Vampire relativism (was: Re: WSWB: Torture) Re: BUFFY: Love or Lust?? BUFFY: New Season, time to pick apart the episodes WSWB Re: BUFFY: Love or Lust?? Re: BUFFY: Love or Lust?? Re: BUFFY: WSWB: Torture (was: Was it chocolate?) Re: BUFFY: A1, long live the King! (was WSWB: Torture) Re: BUFFY: WSWB: Torture (was: Was it chocolate?) Re: BUFFY: Full Season Ordered Re: BUFFY: WSWB: Torture (was: Was it chocolate?) RE: BUFFY: RANTING LIKE MAD!!! Re: BUFFY: When She Was Bad Re: BUFFY: WSWB: Sarah's Workout & Fight Scenes RE: BUFFY: RANTING LIKE MAD!!! BUFFY: Angel's so called wimpy behavior Re: BUFFY: When She Was Bad Re: BUFFY: Angel's so called wimpy behavior Re: BUFFY: When She Was Bad Re: BUFFY: Link with the Master and killing bad guys Re: BUFFY: Erm...How many SPOILERS? Re: BUFFY: WSWB, Angel's 'tude BUFFY: episode time on WGN Re: BUFFY: When She Was Bad See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:53:06 -0400 (EDT) From: DaisyFoo14@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: In response to part of a post comparing Holocaust to Buffy <> Wait........Buffy's FICTION?!?!?!?!?! Alli T:DaisyFoo14@aol.com-GASPer-Keeper of Big:C's Cell Phone,Sparkle Purse, X's Tweety Bird Watch,B's purple pink lamp,J's Earrings,"Effective Parenting" Tapes, G's dictionary stand,Lance's notebook,SHS lockers.Little:X's Superman PJs w/matching Cape(+ Padded Feet),C's"Baby Prom Queen"Make-up Set,W's Lonely Ken Doll (after Little X stole Barbie),B's"Sarah,Slain and Tall (tales of an alt univ)" book, Master's Blood-Flavored Toothpaste (he can't wait to brush his fangs at night!) "Think of something cool, tell him I said it."-Buffy,PG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:55:44 -0700 From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: Link with the Master and killing bad guys At 02:12 PM 9/18/97 -0700, Christopher B. Castro wrote: >Well, one thing we do know is that Joss wasn't sure of the series' life >expectancy so he only prepared for one season. Oh Master, we never got the >chance to know you well! Aw, who cares. Where's Jesse with his Giles monologue from Shakespeare's "Vamplet" (rewritten by Lisa): Giles (holding Master's skull): Alas, poor Master, I knew him well, Buffy! Anointed One (from offstage): So deal ye with the vengeance of his son, Oh usurpers of my father's rightful throne! Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:58:42 -0700 From: sarahg@netscape.com (Sarah Groves) Subject: BUFFY: Re: BUFFY vs. ALLY Speaking of this: I was at the gym on Monday night at 9:45. Our gym has a women only room, and I went in there to start my workout. When I walked in, I noticed something. all of the women in there were sitting or standing near their machines staring at the TV. On the TV was Ally McBeal. So I started my workout and watched the last 15 minutes of the show, and you know what? I think that is one of the lamest shows on TV! I was absolutely not interested in anything that went on, and to top it off at the end they had some horrible music. I was amazed that these other women were so mesmerized by it. At 10:00 when it was over they all left. I don't understand. Buffy is a much better show for so many reasons. I hope Ally McBeal has a short-lived career.

Sarah

NAZARIAN@ORIX.COM wrote:

> TV GUIDE:
 Fox also courts women on this
>night, matching up Melrose Place with newcomer Ally
> McBeal, though building buzz around Ally might be a
>challenge since it's up against the WB cult fave Buffy the
>Vampire Slayer.

YAY!  TV Guide thinks that the threat is the other way around....  so
before panic errupts lets see whats up when Buffy is NEW and the ratings
come in!
miss hayse

  ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:20:18 -0400 (EDT) From: DaisyFoo14@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: Official Buffy website I just went to the official website, and the whole layout has changed. There's a big pic of Angel and Buffy, and it says on the bottom that we should stay tuned for more updates. Just wanted to let you all know! Alli T:DaisyFoo14@aol.com-GASPer-Keeper of Big:C's Cell Phone,Sparkle Purse, X's Tweety Bird Watch,B's purple pink lamp,J's Earrings,"Effective Parenting" Tapes, G's dictionary stand,Lance's notebook,SHS lockers.Little:X's Superman PJs w/matching Cape(+ Padded Feet),C's"Baby Prom Queen"Make-up Set,W's Lonely Ken Doll (after Little X stole Barbie),B's"Sarah,Slain and Tall (tales of an alt univ)" book, Master's Blood-Flavored Toothpaste (he can't wait to brush his fangs at night!) "Think of something cool, tell him I said it."-Buffy,PG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:03:46 -0400 From: John Nestoriak Subject: BUFFY: Vampire relativism (was: Re: WSWB: Torture) > As humans, we can rationalize that vampires are > empirically evil because they are our enemy Ok yet another twist on this undead question. What would you say in regards to a human who wanted to be a vamp? I'm thinking of Jesse in WttH. Once he was a vamp he seemed to quite enjoy it. He was given a lot of power. Hey even Cordelia (reluctantly) danced with him. Now imagine a human who was a nerdy Jesse type that lusted after power. They might willing go to the vampires and ask to be "converted". Or yet another twist. Imagine a group who discovers the vampires and protects them from the slayer in exchange for favors and not being eaten. A crime lord who uses the vamps strength and immunity to bullets to rob jewelry stores at night and in exchange provides them safe haven during the day and a fresh supply of blood. - -- John Nestoriak ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:23:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Divine1798@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Love or Lust?? In a message dated 97-09-18 07:51:33 EDT, you write: << old girl can recognize this. Buffy may love the mystery surrounding Angel, and he may love her strength and independance, but are they really in love with each other? I doubt it. OK, I know I'll get hammered for this, especially by my sis (hi Miriam!), but I'm not trying to be a killjoy here. >> you are right youre going to get hammered for this by your sister! i'm sorry to inform you, but the words I love you are very strong. i wouldn't say them to anyone unless i meant them. i know that they havent said them, yet, but i suspect they will come out soon. those two are clearly in love. if you can't see that, well maybe there is no hope for you. it isnt as though they would have alot to base the lust on or anything. they havent had sex, just kissed. who else agrees with me??? Miriam- President Buffaholics Anonymous Keeper of Giles' Water Pitcher-GASP, Angel's Bloodlust and Fate Little Angel's white shirts, Little Buffy's Go-Go GaloshesLittle Xander's polyester Boyswear, Little Willows Hacker Barbie Little Masters paper mache hellmouth (his fave project from Hellementary school) Little Darla's vampire maker machine by Mattel (Little Angel's most feared toy) Little Snyders ear reducer cream with money back guarantee (he wantsit back), Buffy's new yellow shoes "I don't like you, at the end of the day, I pretty much think you're a vampire."- Xander ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:28:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Divine1798@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: New Season, time to pick apart the episodes WSWB Hey guys! Ok, major nitpick!! 1. Buffy is in the car with her mother and she is wearing the pink tank top she wore when she killed Absalom and all the others. then she is at school, and wearing a white tank top, but the next day, she is wearing said pink top again. 2. Buffy says to Giles that she almost got her best-friends killed on the second day of school, but it is actually the third when Willow almost dies. Reasons, we see 3 different Buffy out fits. Buffy has her training session on the first day after school. The next day, they discuss Cibo Matto being at the Bronze that night. Buffy goes to Bronze and lap-dances with Xander. Next day at school, Slayerettes find out about Cordelia being kidnapped. 3. In the last scene, they say something about going to the Bronze because Wednesdays are boring, but it can't be Wednesday because it is actually the fourth day of school, you cant start school on Sunday unless you are in Isreal. (or somewhere else, but not America) later peoples Miriam- President Buffaholics Anonymous Keeper of Giles' Water Pitcher-GASP, Angel's Bloodlust and Fate Little Angel's white shirts, Little Buffy's Go-Go GaloshesLittle Xander's polyester Boyswear, Little Willows Hacker Barbie Little Masters paper mache hellmouth (his fave project from Hellementary school) Little Darla's vampire maker machine by Mattel (Little Angel's most feared toy) Little Snyders ear reducer cream with money back guarantee (he wantsit back), Buffy's new yellow shoes "I don't like you, at the end of the day, I pretty much think you're a vampire."- Xander ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:39:17 -0400 (EDT) From: H2OBabe13@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Love or Lust?? i think that angel and buffy feel some strong bond to each other but it might not be love...true, they have not had sex yet and i think that is very comendible....if they did though, what do u think would happen when a slayers blood mixes with a vampires? and also, if she got pregnant with angel's baby, would it be a vampire or a slayer? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:54:04 -0400 From: "Douglas J. Hunley" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Love or Lust?? I'm going to go out on a limb and take a stab at this one (ouch, did I say that?) I don't believe Angel can father a child anymore. I know there's no supporting evidence, unless you wanna strech the imagination and refer to his "I walk like a man, but I'm not one" line, but I feel this would be Joss' take on it. This question will proably go straight to the Undead List... marius@enterzone.net http://www.enterzone.net/~marius "I'm not finding any redeeming.....naked?" - Giles - -----Original Message----- From: H2OBabe13@aol.com To: buffy@xmission.com Date: Thursday, September 18, 1997 6:43 PM Subject: Re: BUFFY: Love or Lust?? >i think that angel and buffy feel some strong bond to each other but it might >not be love...true, they have not had sex yet and i think that is very >comendible....if they did though, what do u think would happen when a slayers >blood mixes with a vampires? and also, if she got pregnant with angel's baby, >would it be a vampire or a slayer? > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:46:48 -0700 From: "Christopher B. Castro" Subject: Re: BUFFY: WSWB: Torture (was: Was it chocolate?) >now you are beginning to formulate an moral >*absolutist* argument against vamps. I'm not sure it's impregnable >but it's much more substantial than merely falling back on "they have no >souls" or "they're bloodthirsty animals," IMHO. > This is very true. I remember the number of times on the list(s) that people tried to define just exactly what a soul is, or tried to verify that when a human was "changed", the soul was destroyed (I advocated shattered, myself). Now, one might argue that in order for a particular virus to survive it must fully infect its host, but I think that would be going a little too far. I'll be honest. I think of vampires, though fictitious, as evil, evil creatures who have no right to exist. Why? Mainly because they kill humans, and I happen to be human. I think we have a consensus here. Whether it's morally righteous or not for humans to kill vampires because vampires kill humans is irrelevant, anyway, but an interesting reflection nonetheless. I'm willing to bet Ghandi would have a completely different take on this whole thing. Either that, or he'd have already become a meal. >>Another question to add to this disccusion. If vampires and humans, in your >>opinion, are moral equals and both have equal rights to exist on this >>planet, then how on earth (no pun intended) do you view them as villains in >>the show? Shouldn't you be feeling sorry for them, furious at that sick >>Slayer who keeps killing them all with no remorse? > >I hate the vampires! I want to see Buffy slaughter them all! Except for >Angel, of course, and I'd also like Darla, Luke, Master, and now Absalom >to come back because they're cool! I feel moral outrage at what vampires >do! But I occasionally remind myself that I'm a human, so I'm biased. >If I were a vampire, I might see things *completely* differently. > >>ObBuffy: Does the Annointed One qualify as a vampire king? What exactly is >>his status in vampire society? > >At this point I'd say his status is that of a target. > >Lisa > > > > }:)> Chris 2 **Keeper of Xander's Cool** **BABS Loremaster** ========================================================================= BABS Homepage: http://www.porter.ucsc.edu/~weasel/BABS/babs.htm ========================================================================= "No, no, listen, don't listen to me, listen. You can find them if you are brave. They passed down all the roads long ago. And the Red Bull ran close behind them and covered their footprints." - -Peter S. Beagle, "The Last Unicorn" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:49:28 -0700 From: "Christopher B. Castro" Subject: Re: BUFFY: A1, long live the King! (was WSWB: Torture) >>ObBuffy: Does the Annointed One qualify as a vampire king? What exactly is >>his status in vampire society? > >At this point I'd say his status is that of a target. > >Lisa > For Spike and Druscilla? Maybe as a practical joke some vamp should paint a bullseye target on the Annointed One's back. Or better yet, a "bite me" sign. }:)> Chris 2 **Keeper of Xander's Cool** **BABS Loremaster** ========================================================================= BABS Homepage: http://www.porter.ucsc.edu/~weasel/BABS/babs.htm ========================================================================= "No, no, listen, don't listen to me, listen. You can find them if you are brave. They passed down all the roads long ago. And the Red Bull ran close behind them and covered their footprints." - -Peter S. Beagle, "The Last Unicorn" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:32:54 -0400 (EDT) From: PalOBuffys@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: WSWB: Torture (was: Was it chocolate?) In a message dated 97-09-18 17:24:24 EDT, Chris Castro wrote: << In fact, they love it. >> (RE: why vamps kill) Right on the money Chris!!!!!!! Herein lies the distinct difference between vampires in the Buffyverse and all other animals, mankind included. All carnivores kill as a means of survival, to fulfill the basic instinct of hunger. Yes, some humans kill for sport, and even some lower primates have been known to kill without feeding on their prey (chimpanzee homicide has been documented, although it is extremely rare), but by and large it is a survival instinct. While a lion attacking a young gazelle may seem cruel and heartless, it is simply Mother Nature's way of keeping things in balance. Vampires, especially those in the BV, are so far removed from this basic concept of perpetuation of the species as to require a different set of rules. Nowhere in nature is there such a conscious cruelty among two species. This is not genocide we're talking about, that was the domain of the Hitler's, Khan's and Pot's of the world. What vampires propose goes so far beyond those horrors as to be almost inconcievable, and yet we ask a lone Slayer, a sixteen year old highschool girl from Southern California, to defend mankind against such an onslaught. Vampires are, as far as I can see, the only creature walking this earth with absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Buffy has said she wants to kill them all. I say we let her. Wow, that was way more intense than I planned. But I feel better now, and I promise never to broach this subject again. Stepping down from my soapbox, Mike (PalOBuffys@aol.com) Keeper of Buffy's little white teddy bear Keeper of Buffy's beeper Keeper of Little Buffy's Bubblegum Pink Bicycle (with handlebar streamers and automated stake dispenser) "The part that gets me though, is where Buffy is the Vampire Slayer. She's so little." --- Ms. Calendar ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:56:13, -0500 From: GSSM83C@prodigy.com (JOSEPH NORTHCOTT) Subject: Re: BUFFY: Full Season Ordered Lisa Rose wrote: >Hmmm, based on the decent overnight ratings of WSWB? Maybe we >can thank ourselves for converting enough innocent humans >to our blood-drinking ways! Great minds think alike. That is exactly what I thought. Getting a call to order more episodes right after those ratings would just be too coincedental. However, this is when I was _told_ about the additional order. The order for more eps. may have come in long ago and they just didn't go public with the info. One other point: Just because those addiditional eps. have been ordered does not assure us that they will get aired. Buffy still has to keep fighting her ratings battle. Joseph http://pages.prodigy.com/slayer/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:56:10, -0500 From: GSSM83C@prodigy.com (JOSEPH NORTHCOTT) Subject: Re: BUFFY: WSWB: Torture (was: Was it chocolate?) Hayse wrote: >I want YOU to define soul- Ahem. This is a list about Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The issue is what defines a soul _on the tv show_. We already got an excellent description in the episode "Angel." >> You just equated Buffy's actions with the concentration camps in the >> Holocaust. Ouch. > >Holocaust= destruction of a "race", yes? [major clipping] Hmmm... I figured Lisa had just made an offhand comment, and I was just pointing that out to her. However, you actually equated the killing of vampires, and the slaughter of cattle (which is in no way genocidal) with the Holocaust of 6 million Jews. I will refrain from responding to that. You have started down a very slippery slope. I would suggest you drop that thread. >Moral Relativism explains itself. It is not, as you described, that of >being "where all views are given equal ewight, regardless of how kooky >some are". It is the ability to see that there are different sides to >every situation. No. Uh uh. Moral relativism is not having more than one side. That is just reality. Moral relativism is giving each side _equal weight_, regardless. Since you're using a silly story, let me throw a silly one in. Giles walks in and sees a broken window. Willow says Buffy broke it. Buffy says aliens did it. Is Giles closedminded if he dismisses the alien story out of hand? I don't think so. >Nobody can recall a situation without BIAS- and that >is the big point here. As humans, we can rationalize that vampires are >empirically evil because they are our enemy-- and we don't understand That's the big point here? Where's the bias when Willow sees vampires kill people, then she recalls seeing vampires kill people. That isn't "rationalizing" that vampires are evil. >and why it is a "kooky" idea that we villify vampires because they kill >our species. Ahem, I _never_ said it was the kooky idea was to villify vampires. I said the exact opposite. Read it again and get back to me. :) Jumpin' Jolly Joseph :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:54:48 EDT From: archangel-ichiban@juno.com Subject: RE: BUFFY: RANTING LIKE MAD!!! O.K. I had a great intelligent post started but decided to pitch it to the eminently more eloquent, and faster typing, than I. I instead offer some juvenile yet colorful jabs. 1. Xander after the DANCE!!!!! Heres yet another, more sexist, point of view (Towards men, I am one, I can vouch for its validity). One embedded in the theory that men are essentially feral beasts ruled by there....impulses. Did anyone consider that maybe Xander was just in a state of catatonic bliss. Be careful what you wish for cuz' you just might get it? Yeah and find yourself so happy you can't move until you slip in the puddle of drool at your feet. O.K. heres a totally honest example, using yours truly as the guinea pig. If SMG danced up to me today and pronounced her unyielding devotion, what would I do? Perhaps saunter over to her cooly and confidently, wrap my arms around her passionately, pull her heaving bosom close to my chiseled chest and smother her with an earth shattering kiss that could stop time. Umm. As much as I'd like to think I could, NO!!! I'd stand utterly frozen, statuesque if you will, staring blankly into oblivion with a half-witted "What you talkin' bout' Willis" look. A lot like Xander did. Did anyone notice he didn't turn around to watch Buffy leave? Yup. Fantasmic fulfillment can do that to a guy. 2. Morality of killing Vampires? O.K. For the most part I'm a nice guy. Wishing no harm unto others, even those who want to suck every last drop of crimson lifeforce from my frozen drooling form (Sorry, that's from the last paragraph). But how can I put this simply, if you want to come into my hometown of ARCHANGEL-DALE and make trouble. Your gonna get yourself a chest full of pine. Cut and print. Is it "MORAL" to kill Vampires. Moral shmoral. If a Vampire's giving me that "Happy Meal" look, I take the advice of that humanitarian Vasquez form Aliens. (The ARCHANGEL picks up a stake holding it in his best epasa soto pose.) "I only need to know one thing man....where they are." Let's take a look at this from Buffy's POV. She's the Slayer, superpowers and all. Privy to not only to the fact that Vampires are real but that she, and only she, must stop them. How does she know that a-gazillion years ago Vampires and Humans didn't live in peaceful co-existence until they had a spat. "You know what? I'm tired of you always scaring our guests with your snarling and fangy threats. I'm gonna write a book that claims your kind is all evil demon possessed SOB's. That ought to teach you. And by the way clean your coffin!!!" Even if Buffy didn't want to hunt the undead (Exclude the danger they wreak on our world) they know who she is. She's turned the entire Varsity team, including the coach, into convenient little piles of dust. As far the Vampires are concerned, Buffy's a threat to there existence. They come after her? Oh well, gotta put'em in the hurt locker. The endless chain of life (And death) continues. She doesn't have a choice. And I don't see the "Very Special Episode" of Buffy being a "Can't we all just get along" storyline. 3. Are Buffy-verse Vampires not only demons but stupid too? O.K. Your low Vampire on totem pole. You see all the infinitely more powerful Vampires above you in rank get staked as easily as Tuvok can raise an eyebrow. You see it happen. That gosh darned Slayer!!! Your gonna get two or three of your friends and kill her. WHAT??? Hello, earth to stupid undead guys. The Annointed one gathers a measly army to resurrect the Master. Duh.... It isn't as if Buffy hasn't waded through a couple Vampires before but maybe THIS time it'll work. Come on kid. Ever heard of a Bum Rush. Get every toothy little demon you got and tackle her all at once. I'm ever mystified by movies in which a group of bad guys surrounds the good guy and attack him one at a friggin' time. Ugh. Yeah, I know. It's just a TV show. Here's a simple way of knowing if something is bad or good, race, color, creed, alive or dead doesn't matter. "Hello. How are you today." = GOOD. DON'T KILL. "ARGH!! I'm gonna kill you, your family, your dog and burn down your house!" = BAD. KILL LIKE DOLPH LUNDGREN ON SPEED. And finally here's a question to all you Slayerettes. It's a roll playing assignment. Q. Xander. Moron or just weighing his Options. O.K. You've got Willow on one side. Cute, smart, and obviously head over heels grade A prime choice in love with you. On the other side you've got Buffy. The new girl in town. The sexy slayer, who you'd be willing to bet can dance one heck of a Lambada (The Forbidden Dance). But whom is obviously obsessed with a stoic old dead guy. You spend every minute of every unliving day with both of them. Your 16, a virgin, and your mom thinks your a good looking guy. What do you do? What? It's on-topic. I just wish I hadn't drunk that entire bottle of cough medicine before I wrote all this. THE ARCHANGEL KEEPER OF XANDER'S TENNIS BALL OF UNFULFILLED LOVE KEEPER OF BUFFY'S EXOTICA DANCE CONVICTED BUFFAPHELIAC GALACTICLY RAGING BUFFAHOLIC / INSANE SLAYERETTE "LIFE'S TOUGH....SLAY HARD" P.S. Juno has this wonderful policy of locking me out of there server after 10 login's. So my usual addy is no good tonight. If your gonna flame do it to the addy next to my name. Yeah. I got a backup....don't you? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:02:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Pale54499@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: When She Was Bad In a message dated 97-09-18 02:23:43 EDT, you write: << It looks to me more like Sarah has burned a little bodyfat off (not that she really had any *excess* to burn before), but that she's probably *gained* a few pounds of muscle. Look at the workout scene in the library again, especially when she's working on the Wing Chun dummy; her arms and shoulders definitely look larger than last season. >> I think you are the one who should look at the workout scene more closely. That is definitely not Sarah. Some of it is but most of it is obviously not her. Look at the shot where she's punching that wooden thing and notice that when the camera angle changes the person is no longer Sarah. Also in the part where she's fighting with Gile's notice that the person her's fighting is almost as tall as him. Sarah isn't even close to his height. Look again. Me ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:35:42 -0700 From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: WSWB: Sarah's Workout & Fight Scenes At 08:02 PM 9/18/97 -0400, Pale54499@aol.com wrote: >I think you are the one who should look at the workout scene more closely. >That is definitely not Sarah. Some of it is but most of it is obviously not >her. Look at the shot where she's punching that wooden thing and notice that >when the camera angle changes the person is no longer Sarah. Also in the part >where she's fighting with Gile's notice that the person her's fighting is >almost as tall as him. Sarah isn't even close to his height. Yeah, I haven't wanted to bring this up before because everyone's so into the idea that Sarah does all her own fighting, and I didn't want to be a wet blanket. But Sarah doesn't do nearly as much fighting as we often assume she does. There is a woman (blast! I have forgotten her name!) who fights for Sarah in most of the long and group shots. My friend on the crew says that "if you can't see her face closely, it's probably not Sarah." Her fight stand-in is apparently really hot at a number of martial arts. Though Sarah does have Tae Kwan Do training, there are those who feel that this training was really hyped by the publicity dept. to create a certain image. The stunt crew apparently trains and walks her through the close-up kicks and moves where her face is plainly visible. I try not to think about it. I love her anyway and don't really care (it's a TV reality; no one fights as well as professional fighters). I'm just trying to back you up in case anyone says you're wrong. Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:59:20 -0700 From: "Christopher B. Castro" Subject: RE: BUFFY: RANTING LIKE MAD!!! re: Xander Dance >Did anyone consider >that maybe Xander was just in a state of catatonic bliss. Be careful >what you wish for cuz' you just might get it? Yeah and find yourself so >happy you can't move until you slip in the puddle of drool at your feet. Obviously there are two sides to this discussion. Those who believe Buffy was leading Xander on and then buried him in a heap of rejection, and those of us who believe that if Xander had followed Buffy he would have got some. Likewise, there are those of us who believe Xander was standing there in shock for two different reasons. Bliss and devastation. Whatever the case may be, I vote that this topic gets shoveled off directly to the Undead List--pronto. >Is it "MORAL" to kill Vampires. Moral shmoral. This is pretty much how I feel, Archangel (do you have a real name?). But the fact of the matter is, as Jesse Jou has stated so many times, we're fans, we have to pull it apart, nitpick, Allen-wrench it to death, what have you, and look at how much discussion this morality issue has generated! I know I'm having a blast. When it all comes down to it, I freakin' hate vampires as much as the next person, but it doesn't take away from the ability to discuss other issues. >If a Vampire's giving me that "Happy Meal" look, I take the advice of >that humanitarian Vasquez form Aliens. (The ARCHANGEL picks up a stake >holding it in his best epasa soto pose.) "I only need to know one thing >man....where they are." Let's hope you don't end up like Vasquez from Aliens. "One crispy Archangel platter to go, please!" >Ever heard of a Bum Rush. Get every toothy little demon you got and >tackle her all at once. I'm ever mystified by movies in which a group of >bad guys surrounds the good guy and attack him one at a friggin' time. >Ugh. Yeah, I know. It's just a TV show. I think the beginning of the skirmish at the end of WSWB was a little bit more of a brawl than we've seen in the past, actually. It looked like Buffy nearly had to fight three vampires at one point, all at the same time. No, they didn't all rush and tackle her at the same time, but she was having to pull off a couple of extremely fast moves to keep up that might have even made "The Flash" proud. Also, did anyone notice when Buffy was fighting long-haired Hick vamp that he managed to land a solid punch on her face? They didn't show the contact directly, per se, more of an above shot, but her got her square in the nose, if my guess it correct. I'd say, "Where's the bruise, you shmo?" if I didn't know the Slayer healed quickly. }:)> Chris 2 **Keeper of Xander's Cool** **BABS Loremaster** ========================================================================= BABS Homepage: http://www.porter.ucsc.edu/~weasel/BABS/babs.htm ========================================================================= "No, no, listen, don't listen to me, listen. You can find them if you are brave. They passed down all the roads long ago. And the Red Bull ran close behind them and covered their footprints." - -Peter S. Beagle, "The Last Unicorn" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:12:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Wolfkazzy@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: Angel's so called wimpy behavior I disagree with the ones that think that Angel should have his edge back. He never lost it. He was abrupt and a bit sarcastic with Xander in the season ender. And in the new season premiere, he had the last word with Buffy when she challenged him. "Come on, kick my ...." "Don't you have somewhere to be." "I do." "Then you're wasting time." "Just stay out of my way." "Happy to oblige." In a way he dampened her 'tude because in the Bronze she listened to him, I can see a scene in which she rebuffed him and fought the vampire anyway but it didn't happen, and he didn't back off to "minimum" safe distance like Xander was saying to do. Now this is typical behavior for a guy in their teens/twenties to back off to safe distance when a girl is acting like Buffy. Angel on the otherhand didn't back off, give credit to his years of experience. He's 242 yrs old (according to David Boreanaz). He was the first person to realize what she was going on...not anger, not spite but fear. Vampires can sense fear, remember Luke saying that fear was like an elixir to him? So it stands to reason he can sense her fear of something and is trying to reason it out. I don't think he lost his edge, that old sarcasm is still there. He'll use it when he wants to. He still hangs back away from Xander and Willow. He's not a part of the group...though he's a part of the team that helps Buffy but at a distance. He likes Giles, but I doubt if he cares too much for Xander, Willow, and Cordelia. Wolfkazzy Keeper of Angel's Soul "I can walk like a man, but I'm not one."--Angel. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:15:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Pale54499@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: When She Was Bad In a message dated 97-09-18 18:03:37 EDT, you write: << I think the previous statement about SMG being more physically fit than sickly is correct. The fight scene in the library is the perfect time to see her body (guys shut up!) and notice that she has good muscular tone all over and her fighting skills are much better than last season. All of us just have to admit that we now got a buffer Buffy :) >> I'll say it again get out your tapes and watch the work out scene again. Look closely and you will see that SMG has quite a body double. IMHO it's not her folks. ME ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:40:17 -0700 (PDT) From: preta@earthlink.net (Preta) Subject: Re: BUFFY: Angel's so called wimpy behavior >I disagree with the ones that think that Angel should have his edge back. He >never lost it. He was abrupt and a bit sarcastic with Xander in the season >ender. And in the new season premiere, he had the last word with Buffy when >she challenged him. Edge is a funny thing, when honing a blade, one can over-sharpen and ruin the edge. Angel is cautious and for at least 2 very good reasons: 1) he wants to stay 'undead' because he wants to be around Buffy and he is not sure, it would seem, where his ticket is punched to if he gets offed. 2) having been alone a great deal perhaps he is not accustomed to interacting meaningfully with humans hence the taciturn nature, rather like speaking a foreign language, keeping it short and simple, at least at first. Preta ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:39:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Wolfkazzy@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: When She Was Bad In a message dated 97-09-18 18:03:34 EDT, you write: > > > I wrote something yesterday about SMG losing so much weight. She really > has lost quite a bit of weight. I thought she had a better muscle tone and looked better fit than she did last season. But remember, SMG has had quite a busy summer so she may have had lost a few pounds but I don't think she looks sickly. Now, I think Nicholas has lost weight, he looks better. He has a better haircut and that tan...wow :) Wolfkazzy Keeper of Angel's Soul "I can walk like a man, but I'm not one."--Angel. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:58:46 -0400 From: koch@northnet.org Subject: Re: BUFFY: Link with the Master and killing bad guys At 01:00 PM 9/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >I have to applaud Joss and the writers though. Every time I'm sad >that a "bad guy" has been defeated (though it's necessary to keep >showing that Buffy is a successful slayer), the show just creates >new ones that are just as good or even better than the previous ones! Yes, Joss definitely subscribes to the "Erik Larsen" School of Villany. ("Savage Dragon" fans will get my drift...) Make a cool villain, kill 'em off in a shocking manner, then make an even better one, so the fans nearly forget the first :-) ------------------ViAsHiNo------------------ | NOSFERATU PrImE MiNiStEr Of WhUp-@$$! | | kEePeR oF tHe MaStEr'S bOnEs | | MeMbEr MiSs CaLeNdAr'S tEcHnOpAgAnS | | "I *hate* that girl!" | |___-tHe AnNoInTeD oNe, "WhEn ShE wAs BaD"___| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:28:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Britt1975@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Erm...How many SPOILERS? In a message dated 97-09-18 13:34:25 EDT, you write: << Women are protective of each others' feelings - the men's feelings can take care of themselves. You ladies out there know it's true. >> I have to say that as a "lady" I totally disagree with this. In my experience, the exact opposite is true. Now *close, real* friends is one thing, but unless it is a female I really care about, I am more inclined to protect my male friends. Because although they can take care of themselves *physically* my female acquaintences on the other hand are more capable of defending themselves verbally, such as...."Your mouth is open, words are coming out, this is never a good thing" or "You don't tell anyone I'm the slayer and I won't tell anyone that you're a moron" I heard these lines with a sense of deja vu because it sounds *just* like something I might have heard one catty girl saying to another in HS. Okay that is the end of my rant. I have to chalk this up to a *major* difference in the way we of different sexes view things. Brittany Britt1975@aol.com Keeper of Xander's Ice Cream Cone "If they hurt Willow, I'll kill you" Xander ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:53:00 -0500 From: psopheighg@juno.com (Sofie Zivovic) Subject: Re: BUFFY: WSWB, Angel's 'tude Thank you!! I totally agree. He needs to get his 'ttude back into gear. There. Thank you. :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:33:12 -0400 From: "Kirstin" Subject: BUFFY: episode time on WGN I just have a quick question for anyone who knows -- what time will Buffy be on WGN on the 29th? I know its usually on at 9:00, but the Click TV listing said that it would be on at eight and the news would be on at nine. If anyone knows for sure, I would appreciate finding out. Thanks! Kirstin kmo@acpub.duke.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:43:43 -0700 From: Ted Nelson Subject: Re: BUFFY: When She Was Bad templar wrote: >=20 > On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 Pale54499@aol.com wrote: >=20 > > I wrote something yesterday about SMG losing so much weight. No one r= eally > > responded. In a way she looks somewhat sickly... After watching the e= pisode > > another couple of times I really am worried. Did anyone other than my= self > > notice this? >=20 > It looks to me more like Sarah has burned a little bodyfat off (not tha= t > she really had any *excess* to burn before), but that she's probably > *gained* a few pounds of muscle. Look at the workout scene in the libra= ry > again, especially when she's working on the Wing Chun dummy; her arms a= nd > shoulders definitely look larger than last season. It's certainly not t= he > `ripped' look of Linda Hamilton in `Terminator 2', but SMG has obviousl= y > been working out hard to get ready for this new season. Her martial art= s > skills have improved too; her kicks are noticebly cleaner and more > precise. I think the "sickly" look you're worried about has to do with = the > emotional sickness that the character `Buffy' was going through, not wi= th > any actual health problems of SMG. > Dave (templar@sound.net= ) Yo Mister Templar, Some of those scenes you mentioned were made by SMG's "stunt"? double. I know some of you folks out there think SMG can (and probably could) "DO IT ALL", but why should Joss and friends take such a risk with their "little" slayer? One other question: After all that fighting with so many "vamps", WHY DOESN'T BUFF HAVE ANY BRUISES???????? HAH !=B7} ------------------------------ End of buffy Digest V1 #305 *************************** To subscribe to buffy Digest, send the command: subscribe buffy-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@xmission.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-buffy": subscribe buffy-digest local-buffy@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "buffy-digest" in the commands above with "buffy". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/buffy/archive. These are organized by date.