Return-Path: From: owner-buffy-digest@xmission.com (buffy-digest) To: buffy-digest@xmission.com Subject: buffy-digest V1 #415 Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com Sender: owner-buffy-digest@xmission.com Errors-To: owner-buffy-digest@xmission.com Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 07:39:47 -0700 buffy-digest Wednesday, November 5 1997 Volume 01 : Number 415 In this issue: BUFFY: spoilers for what's my line.....beware Re: Re: BUFFY: Why Druscilla is the Way She Is BUFFY: Re: Sports for the charactoers Re: BUFFY: Two Part Episode Info (Spoilers) BUFFY: Lie to Me....Spoilers if you haven't seen it Re: BUFFY: Buffy: thoughts BUFFY: LTM Comment Re: BUFFY: Buffy: thoughts BUFFY: Re: Lie to me, oh WOW!!!!! (LTM) BUFFY: Fwd: Re: BW: YAHOO BUFFY: Anthony Head Interview Re: BUFFY: Lie to Me Re: BUFFY: Why Druscilla is the Way She Is Re: Re: BUFFY: Why Druscilla is the Way She Is Re: BUFFY:new slayer?doubt it BUFFY: William the Bloody's bloody mistakes... Re: BUFFY: Two Part Episode Info (Spoilers) Re: BUFFY: Alas, poor Fordy (SPOILERS for "Lie to Me") BUFFY: Lie To ME-*help!* (no spoilers) Re: BUFFY: Lie to me ep BUFFY: More Updates to the Music Website RE: BUFFY: Willow's faith in Angel Re: BUFFY: Buffy Thoughts Re: BUFFY: RE: the vampire wannabes See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 02:53:42 -0500 (EST) From: Jewels79@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: spoilers for what's my line.....beware S P O I L E R S P A C E * * * * Well, i was wondering how there could be another slayer and have no one even know about it. first of all, wouldnt' giles know? because of the watcher diaries that get passed down? and obviously kendra doesn't have a watcher, since giles mentioned that his father and grandmother were both watchers...implying it's hereditary. but besides all that, i think i've stumbled upon a theory that actually supports the second slayer story. some of you on the list have been wondering how buffy could still retain her supernatural powers if there was another more official slayer, since buffy is thought to be dead by the slayer powers that be. and some of us have also been wondering about buffy's deflating prowess. this season, with the exception of her *issues* in WSWB, buffy's been losing a lot of fights. first darryl, and then she needed help in fending spike off and let's not forget the 500 year old mummy that bagged our slayer into a sacrophagus without smearing her lipstick. so maybe, she's lost some of her supernatural power, having to share it with this kendra chick. what do you guys think? jewels Keeper of Willow's cheese tower (IMG)~~Keeper of Buffy's history test (N)~~ Keeper of Buffy's hunk explanation (A)~~Keeper of Xander's Betel nuts (RB)~~ Keeper of Xander's sore fist (RB)~~rehab patient of BAH, xander floor, room 309~~soon to be GASPer~~"Oh, this is fun...." ~~Willow (H) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 23:49:39 -0800 From: "Christopher B. Castro" Subject: Re: Re: BUFFY: Why Druscilla is the Way She Is >I didn't get the impression that Angel was talking about his sister. >Surely he would have said that--making the whole incident that much more >horrible. He did mention that she was young (and two other things I can't >remember now). Perhaps he simply became obsessed with Dru as a young girl I rewatched the episode, and distinctly remember Drusilla asking Angel if he remembered the song "Mummy" used to sing, followed by an audible agreement. This could mean that he *was* simply obsessed with tormenting this young girl named Drusilla and watched her family from afar before commencing with his evildoings. It could also mean that they were related distantly or closely, depending on the context. We need more info! }:)> Chris 2 Keeper of Xander's Cool, Giles' Kick of Disrespect (GASP) ===================================================================== BABS Homepage: http://www.porter.ucsc.edu/~weasel/BABS/babs.htm ===================================================================== "Victims...aren't we all." James O. Barr, "The Crow" - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 23:56:09 -0800 From: Ted Nelson Subject: BUFFY: Re: Sports for the charactoers > Lisa Rose wrote: responding to: Willow is harder. Crosscountry, maybe?= ...Perfect. > She is *so* much like a woman who was on our cross-country team in high= school. Even > the name "Willow" (as in tall, willowy, all legs)...Buffy would go for = volleyball. > Can't you just see her jumping up to slam-dunk a ball over the net? Li= sa Yo Lisa, Sorry. Willow, Lacrosse is her sport. For surrre. As for the buffster,= wouldn't she be disqualified for having super human abilities. Or better yet, Giles w= ould say she shouldn't waste energy on any frivolous persuit, like Volleyball. The sl= ayer should also be, as Ang said, "honing" one's skills. She should always adhere to the = Slayer's Motto (taken verbatim from the Boy Scout Manual), "Be Prepared." IMO, I think = Giles would say something similar. :=B7} tr tron302@ix.netcom.com "Huhh, where's the door knob?" Spike, LTM - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 23:59:12 -0800 From: Julie Fundenberger Subject: Re: BUFFY: Two Part Episode Info (Spoilers) I wrote: S P O I L E R S A H E A D >>The book that was stolen from Giles and given to Spike must have some >>really big significant importance to upcoming storylines. I'm thinking >>that it is either going to be a book of spells that does something to Angel >>or Buffy, or tells about Giles background, or gives Spike power to take >>over the world. Marie wrote: >I thought it looked like a watcher diary, similar to the one that Willow lifted >in Halloween. I haven't seen the Halloween ep yet so I don't know if they look alike or not but I think they all look alike, old and musty. If I'm wrong let me know. >Anyway I assume it will be important in the future. Perhaps where a certain >ritual comes from in What's my line? That is what I think. Probably a ritual that will endanger Angel, thus forcing Buffy and Kendra (the other slayer) to save him. Well.. not force, I just couldn't think of another word for it. >I did find it odd that Spike, the new tech vamp, was so interested in an old[?] >book--and also if he thought it was that important that he didn't go for it >himself. He does see the rest as incompetent at best. Cheers, Maire I think it was because of how important the book is going to turn out to be. The only reason I can think of for sending out someone else to get it is that he was hoping to get the slayer (which could have possibly revived Dru as much as the upcoming spell) and he couldn't do both at the same time. Well, maybe he could have. I'm just looking for reasons. Knightwatch willie@techline.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 02:32:12 -0500 (EST) From: Britt1975@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: Lie to Me....Spoilers if you haven't seen it If you haven't seen Lie to Me there are spoilers ahead- I thought that tonights episode was *so* obviously a Joss written and directed episode. The characterizations were much cleaner, the episode flowed better and it was an altogether awesome show. Angel showed some serious angst, but he was still pretty cuddly < and in case anyone cares...number me among the Angel/Buffy supporters out there>. Buffy- With the minor exception of being bashed around a little by the guy with the massive brain tumors, she was in pretty good form tonight. I love how she used Dru to escape...although I thought she sould have killed her when she had the chance. It was good to see Ms. Calendar back....can't wait until next week. Cordelia....is this comentary on literary and historical figures being misunderstood going to be a running gag? "She was going to let them have cake". It seemed to me that she was back to being merely a backboard for Xander's witty asides. Giles- I was a tad disappointed that the only allusion that we got to what went on last week, was the conversation at the end. Other than that, Giles was his usual charming, bumbling self...at least in my eyes. Willow- Personally I think that, once again, she was a stand-out in this episode. I definately think that she retained a lot of the confidence that was shown in last weeks episode. Fave line by Willow "Ours is a forbidden love" the Willow of old would have never tossed that out. Xander- what can I say, he was back tonight....at least in my opinion. The witty remarks were sailing out, one after another...with just the right amount of humor and sarcasm. Is it just me or are these guys all better actors when performing for Joss with Joss written material? As for the ending, like the 7th Heaven music at the end of WSWB....I sense serious foreshadowing here. The sarcastic line from Giles about how all *bad guy* have pointy horns or wear black hats. I think that in light of what next weeks episode is about, it was a good line. Well that is it for me. I can't wait to read what everyone else thought...because I am sure that, as usual, I will feel that my opinions were completely inadequate when I get done reading everyone else's. :-)) Night ya'll. Brittany Britt1975@aol.com Keeper of Xander's Ice Cream Cone - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 03:08:11 -0500 (EST) From: Jewels79@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy: thoughts In a message dated 97-11-04 20:49:22 EST, you write: << and again WHY DIDN'T BUFFY JUST STAKE DRU when she had the chance!!!!! Buffy my girl you are slipping! here was the perfect opportunity to get rid of one vamp and she throws her aside and ran out. i just don't get it? >> as much as i wanted buffy to stake dru and put all of us out of our misery--well, scratch that, since most of the list seems to find dru amusing. i just can't stand her. anyways, by the time she made good on her ashtray threat, spike and all the other vamps would have been on her before she could make the door. spike was still blocking the door, or he would have been if he took two steps back. so, she couldn't have gotten rid of her trump card if she wanted to get out. jewels Keeper of Willow's cheese tower (IMG)~~Keeper of Buffy's history test (N)~~ Keeper of Buffy's hunk explanation (A)~~Keeper of Xander's Betel nuts (RB)~~ Keeper of Xander's sore fist (RB)~~rehab patient of BAH, xander floor, room 309~~soon to be GASPer~~"Oh, this is fun...." ~~Willow (H) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 00:13:19 -0800 From: Ted Nelson Subject: BUFFY: LTM Comment To all concerned PADS, I've always thought Joss's eps were the best. LTM is no exception. I=20 just wish I could understand why those directed by others seem to drift=20 from the central character development. Are they wanting to add their=20 two cents this "history in the making"? Or do they "just not see it"? Please, don't get me wrong. The work of others is good. I don't wish to= =20 instill "hard" feelings. I just see the storyline swaying from the real=20 theme at times. Example, Reptile Boy. There are a limited number of eps= =20 that will be recorded for posterity. It would be a (sorry moms) a damn=20 shame if the characters didn't get their fullest possible development=20 because communication between the various interest groups don't jive. I could be writing wat to much between the lines, so, IMO, please keep=20 the character focus sharp and (no pun intended) to the point. Thank you=20 for your patiance and support. ;=B7} tr tron302@ix.netcom.com "Huhh, where's the door knob?" Spike, LTM - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 03:18:10 -0500 (EST) From: LStew10263@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy: thoughts >>and again WHY DIDN'T BUFFY JUST STAKE DRU when she had the chance!!!!! Buffy my girl you are slipping! here was the perfect opportunity to get rid of one vamp and she throws her aside and ran out. i just don't get it?<< Yeah, then Buffy stakes Dru. Spike goes crazy. He probably would have went on a major killing spree. Anger his demon that much and he would probably have been able to kill off half of Sunnydale. No, that was not the right time to kill Dru. I think she was just glad that the other people and she had gotten out alive at the moment. She can deal with Dru another ep. Now, personally, I'm so relieved that they didn't stake Dru - she's one of my fave characters! She's so... eerie, creepy, insane! Sharon Ruth LStew10263@aol.com East Coast Buffy Crew Member (ETC.) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 00:37:16 -0800 From: Ted Nelson Subject: BUFFY: Re: Lie to me, oh WOW!!!!! (LTM) Modjallal,Susanna,GLENDALE,NUSA wrote: > > Yowza!!! ...Xander was only packaging material to the main story and Cordelia was barely the > destination tag on the whole box. Very odd. A few things I'd love to stand on my soapbox for: > At one point, cn2759@coastalnet.com (JW) wrote: ...I guess Xander doesn't feel he has a role > in Buffy's life, sure he's a bud... So where does that leave Xander...? Susanna Yo Susanna, I beg to differ. I think Xander is setting everyone up to throw suspusion off himself when he "offs" Ang. If I had a friend who had "fallin" into the wrong crowd and she was "blinded" by her infatuation for an "it", I would definitely do something. I wouldn't be much of a friend otherwise. Remember, Xander did call Ang "Dead Boy". And Ang doesn't like it either. Furthermore, if you remember in "School Hard", Xander was the only one who witnessed the "discussion" between Ang and Spike. Didn't they make a joke about an Anne Rice correlation with respect to Buffy? And didn't Xander squirm? Hey, if I were trying to match wits with a 241 year old undead "it", I would definitely play my "cards" close to the "chest". I think Xander is just cooling his jets for now. Waiting. Watching. Learning. In other words, he's growing up fast, for Buffy's sake. tr tron302@ix.netcom.com "Huhh, where's the door knob?" Spike, 5v06? - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 18:16:57 -0800 From: slayerbwcs@webtv.net (Guadalupe Mejia) Subject: BUFFY: Fwd: Re: BW: YAHOO - --WebTV-Mail-393819875-1211 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT does anybody know about this? - --WebTV-Mail-393819875-1211 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message-Id: <199711042206.OAA21508@mailtod-111.bryant.webtv.net> From: TheVORTEX@webtv.net (VOLuNtEeR) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 17:06:17 -0500 To: buffy-watchers@mlists.com Subject: Re: BW: YAHOO Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-buffy-watchers@mlists.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: buffy-watchers@mlists.com whoa!!...did everyone else see SMG and DB on Rosie today??...it was awesome!!!...glad I had a tape in the vcr,they showed a cool clip from scream with SMG,and David also has a new movie,forgot the name though!...wow!!...this was great!!...I will make copies and send them out,but if you are somebody who flamed me,don't even bother asking cause you won't get jack and I know all your names!....this was also the longest interview so far,Rosie really takes time with her guests!....hope you all saw it! VOLuNtEeR - --WebTV-Mail-393819875-1211-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 01:19:28 -0800 (PST) From: Sonja Marie Subject: BUFFY: Anthony Head Interview The ASH list knows that I interviewed him today, but I'm putting new info in this email so I'm sending it to them as well. Though he didn't call back when he said he would and I had to call the set again today, Tony did call back around 11am and I was able to talk to him at length about various things for the ASHFC newsletter that will becoming soon (God willing and if I can get the hold of Kimmie!). Some BTVS related stuff: Tony can't drive a stick shift and the Citroen Giles drives is a stick shift, but the one he has this season isn't the one he had last season, Tony didn't explain why, and I didn't think to ask (I was so nervous! It's amazing to hear the tape and notice my small fits of giggles, a big sign of nervousness for me). Tony actually watches the show, and he likes it (not a big surprise), though he said there are times he thinks "Why'd I do that?" (I actually do have the real qoute on tape, just need to transcribe the whole thing.). There is more, but you'll have to wait. (see sig for one of the interesting quotes). Sonja Marie - The White Rose @--'->-- http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/sonja.html Paul Wylie Fan Pages - http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/pwylie/pwylie.html Owner of the Jeff Fahey, Paul Wylie, Anthony S. Head, & Buffy-Beta Lists Pres. of Giles' Appreciation Society Panters - GASP!- Keeper of Coats & Ties Anthony Stewart Head (Giles-BTVS) To Me About What Fans Sent Him in the Mail: "Fair amount of lingerie, yeah, all of which I tried, none of which fitted" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 03:18:52 -0800 From: "Christopher B. Castro" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Lie to Me >> And just how *did* he find their lair, or find out Buffy was a slayer? > >Well he found their lair by asking the vamp girl. Slightly contrived >but overall it worked for me. Yes, yet another thing I'd thought about before but had forgotten to comment on until a fellow listmate dug it up for me. How kind. Why hasn't Buffy utilized the same tactic? I could envision her reviving the ol' cross-in-the-mouth technique or something equally grisly in order to pry the information from the next vamp she runs across. Come to think of it, that's just what she did in WSWB, albeit it was more to glean the location of her dear friends who'd been captured, but indirectly she found the hideout of the Annoying One and pals. It seems that Buffy merely does her rounds every night and expects Spike & Dru to eventually come out of their hidey-hole to confront her. Perhaps a more direct approach would cause less anxiety and liabilities in the future. Anyone feel the same about this? }:)> Chris 2 **BABS Loremaster** Keeper of Xander's Cool, Giles' Kick of Disrespect (GASP) ===================================================================== BABS Homepage: http://www.porter.ucsc.edu/~weasel/BABS/babs.htm ===================================================================== "Victims...aren't we all." James O. Barr, "The Crow" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 03:19:04 -0800 From: "Christopher B. Castro" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Why Druscilla is the Way She Is >Angel must have assumed that role(There's where the Yoda thing >comes in). So for awhile Angel, Dru and Spike lived happily as a family, >Angel taking on themore fatherly, teachering role to Spike and Dru. Anyone >with me on this? On the contrary, here's a new possible theory. Angel may have served as Spike's mentor at a time when Drusilla wasn't already in the picture. Angel then provided an example of proper vampiric behavior for Spike by driving Drusilla mad, and then changed her at Spike's behest (due to Spike's infatuatation with the lovely girl). Angel then moved on, leaving Spike and Drusilla to sort out there lives together. Ok, so it's outlandish and unlikely. It's still a fun idea. }:)> Chris 2 **BABS Loremaster** Keeper of Xander's Cool, Giles' Kick of Disrespect (GASP) ===================================================================== BABS Homepage: http://www.porter.ucsc.edu/~weasel/BABS/babs.htm ===================================================================== "Victims...aren't we all." James O. Barr, "The Crow" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 03:30:39 -0800 From: "Christopher B. Castro" Subject: Re: Re: BUFFY: Why Druscilla is the Way She Is >Although I suspect Angel's story about Dru was accurate as far as it went, >the possibility that he neglected to mention the fact he was related to >Dru (brother/sister? cousins?) definitely occurred to me! Did Angel tell >Buffy the truth... just not ALL of the truth? If this almost truth is uncovered and leads to another spat I think the whole 'trust' scene between Buffy and Angel will have been for nought. But somehow I'm thinking this is just the thing for Joss & crew to perpetuate the ever-developing, angst-ridden, "the ball's in whose court?" relationship that Buffy and Angel have going. Bad writers! *thwap!* }:)> Chris 2 **BABS Loremaster** Keeper of Xander's Cool, Giles' Kick of Disrespect (GASP) ===================================================================== BABS Homepage: http://www.porter.ucsc.edu/~weasel/BABS/babs.htm ===================================================================== "Victims...aren't we all." James O. Barr, "The Crow" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 03:34:48 -0800 From: "Christopher B. Castro" Subject: Re: BUFFY:new slayer?doubt it >"When one Slayer dies, another is called". Since Buffy actually was dead >for a couple of minutes in `Prophecy Girl', it seems to have triggered >whatever mystical process calls the next Slayer. I have some thoughts about this. I recall, from the movie, Buffy is informed of her role of the Slayer by Merrick, the Watcher, and is coaxed into said role until she realizes her part in the grand scheme. Alternately, in the TV show, we don't know how "our" Buffy was introduced into the world of slaying. Perhaps it was a more natural transition, some sort of 'mystical realization', and then Buffy started slaying. Of course there was a Watcher, some unnamed person who was guiding Buffy from the beginning, but if we use the rationale that the new Slayer hasn't been "put on hold" by the Watcher community (obviously not, if she's showing up for an episode or more), then this is the only rationale I can adopt for this situation. Why else would the Watcher council let two Slayers operate at the same time? }:)> Chris 2 **BABS Loremaster** Keeper of Xander's Cool, Giles' Kick of Disrespect (GASP) ===================================================================== BABS Homepage: http://www.porter.ucsc.edu/~weasel/BABS/babs.htm ===================================================================== "Victims...aren't we all." James O. Barr, "The Crow" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 03:48:11 -0800 From: "Christopher B. Castro" Subject: BUFFY: William the Bloody's bloody mistakes... **CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR THAT EP TWO DAYS AGO** I was thinking about the final action scene in the converted bomb shelter club, and how Spike and the gang went about their plan to get the Slayer. As I thought more about it, it dawned on me that Spike's plan was indeed a very poor, and almost stupid one. He and the other vamps storm into the shelter, and what is the first thing they do? They start feeding! Do they take care of the Slayer, who is still perfectly able to move about freely? Some may argue that Ford had knocked Buffy unconscious with the crowbar, but exactly how long did Spike and crew believe she'd stay that way? Almost immediately she attacks the vulnerable Drusilla and it's all over. IMO, Spike would have been much better off striding in, lifting Buffy up triumphantly, and tearing her throat out. But no, he doesn't even take her into account, and summarily dives for blondie "valid viewpoint" goth-chick. Plainly spoken (typed?), this whole scene just doesn't make any logical sense to me. Shame on you Spike. You have brains. They may be old, but they shouldn't be rusty. }:)> Chris 2 **BABS Loremaster** Keeper of Xander's Cool, Giles' Kick of Disrespect (GASP) ===================================================================== BABS Homepage: http://www.porter.ucsc.edu/~weasel/BABS/babs.htm ===================================================================== "Victims...aren't we all." James O. Barr, "The Crow" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 04:09:00 -0800 From: "Christopher B. Castro" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Two Part Episode Info (Spoilers) (Contains SPOILERS for "What's My Line") S P O I L E R S * * BEWARE YE * * >The book that was stolen from Giles and given to Spike must have some >really big significant importance to upcoming storylines. I'm thinking >that it is either going to be a book of spells that does something to Angel >or Buffy, or tells about Giles background, or gives Spike power to take >over the world. Funny, this is the first time I've seen this post. Anyway...I did a little pondering about the book that was stolen from Giles' collection and linked it in my mind to the recent posting of a summary of the WML episode, in which Spike attempts to cure Drusilla of her madness. Could this be the book that contains the secret that he seeks? I'm pretty sure this wasn't the book Buffy found Dru's picture in, but it does look like a book of some importance. Let's just hope it isn't part of the Watcher diaries. That would be, well, disastrous. }:)> Chris 2 **BABS Loremaster** Keeper of Xander's Cool, Giles' Kick of Disrespect (GASP) ===================================================================== BABS Homepage: http://www.porter.ucsc.edu/~weasel/BABS/babs.htm ===================================================================== "Victims...aren't we all." James O. Barr, "The Crow" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 04:16:49 -0800 From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: Alas, poor Fordy (SPOILERS for "Lie to Me") At 11:31 PM 11/4/97 -0800, Christopher B. Castro wrote: >If we keep with what's been stated often in Buffy episodes, it wasn't Ford >that Buffy killed, it was actually the demon that possessed his drained >body. Ford died when Spike (or Dru...whoever) drained him of his blood and >dropped him onto the converted bomb shelter steps. This is such a grey area though, because Angel speaks of the terrible things he did to Dru in the first person ("I did them") instead of in the third person ("the demon did them"), even though his soul is now restored and the demon is presumably no longer speaking. >Let's hope victims of vampire changings don't go to Hell or any place worse. I would have to assume that they are processed like the souls of any other people who've "died." A religious system that believes in Heaven and Hell might send Dru's soul to Heaven because she was an innocent victim, but Ford's soul to Hell because he acted with evil and selfish intent at the end. Nonetheless, I thought it was a sad image of Ford going from an intelligent, attractive, articulate young man (albeit desperate) to that rabid dumb ugly animal in the graveyard. What a trade (even though I realize it may not have really been "him" anymore). He looked genuinely shocked right after Buffy staked him. Why didn't he end up more polished and controlled in his vampirism like Jesse did? Why do some of them seem to become mindless animals (graveyard fodder for Buffy's stakes) while others (like Spike and Darla) seem to retain their intelligence and poise? Is it a matter of just waking up? If Spike had actually cared about Ford's becoming a thinking member of his gang, would he have taken Ford's body back with him to their hideout? Or did Angel, Spike, Darla, & Dru all begin their vampiric "lives" as dumb ugly animals in graveyards (just lucky not to be staked)? Lisa - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:24:41 -0500 (EST) From: JACYNTHE Subject: BUFFY: Lie To ME-*help!* (no spoilers) Okay, that just tears it. Technology just *hates* me with a fiery passion. Roomiefromhell swore she'd set the VCR--but set the stupid thing for 9 *am*!!!!! I missed the whole ep. ::insert howl of anguish:: Can some kind soul help me out here tape-wise? ::beg, grovel:: ~Jacynthe Cboland@concentric.net "Gra, Dilseacht agus Cairdeas" http://www.cris.com/~Cboland/index.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 08:06:31 -0500 (EST) From: Jewels79@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Lie to me ep In a message dated 97-11-04 05:52:53 EST, you write: << However, now I get confused, so I'm asking for help. I believe Giles said that Dru was killed by an angry mob in Prague (this ep & alluded to in SH), however Angel turned her into a vamp. >> I think she was attacked by the mob really recently and thus spike and dru's escape from europe to the states. when spike referred to it in school hard, he said that right after he told her she needed strength, implying that she was still recovering. also, she most likely became spike's *paramour* after angel made her a vamp. i do wonder how spike got her away from the mob and what she had done to provoke their attack. hmmmm... jewels Keeper of Willow's cheese tower (IMG)~~Keeper of Buffy's history test (N)~~ Keeper of Buffy's hunk explanation (A)~~Keeper of Xander's Betel nuts (RB)~~ Keeper of Xander's sore fist (RB)~~rehab patient of BAH, xander floor, room 309~~soon to be GASPer~~"Oh, this is fun...." ~~Willow (H) - - ------------------------------ Date: From: RemencusL@jsc.mil Subject: BUFFY: More Updates to the Music Website Hi, All. First, I have to say I loved "Lie to Me." This episode had it all! Second, I've updated the Buffy Music Website. Check out the Music site at: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Lot/8864/music.htm Leslie Natpack~HPotCoS~GASPer~AGA~Slayer~BotCoJ Buffy Music--http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Lot/8864/music.htm "I'm taking a lot on faith here." -Xander, BtVS LaremyB@aol.com or RemencusL@jsc.mil - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 97 19:02:08 UT From: "Willow Rosenberg" Subject: RE: BUFFY: Willow's faith in Angel I totally agree with you about Willow and Angel. In last week's ep when she was telling Buffy that Angel would never fall for Cordy's act....and that she wasn't his type.....and when Buffy replied that she didn't know what his type was because he wasn't one to over-share....I noticed that maybe Willow,somehow,understands Angel more than anyone else. And she definitely has more faith in him that anyone else.I mean, she was the only one who wasn't being cold to him at the Bronze.And when he said "I wanted to talk to you" when he was at Willow's door...did anyone else feel someting there? I'm still vague on what exactly,but I replayed the bedroom scene a few times and definitely noticed something between them.Maybe some kind of mutual understanding of something(like maybe....lonliness?)that draws them to eachother.I say lonliness because I've always pictured Will as a loner....even with Xander being there most of her life....I think maybe there are some things that only she knows....but maybe Angel can sense them.I think those two make great friends...and I hope her faith in him won't fade....because I think he needs someone to trust him.(BTW,I could be *way* off here,so if anyone thinks I am,try not to laugh.) So anyway,that's just my 2 cents. ~WillowR~ W:"No!I'm just not allowed to have boys in my room." A:"I promise to behave." - ---------- From: owner-buffy@xmission.com on behalf of JRoseHale@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 1997 11:51 AM To: buffy@xmission.com Subject: BUFFY: Willow's faith in Angel First off, let me just say that I *love* Willow. There isn't a Willow scene where I'm not cheering her on. She's the friend we all want and the friend we all wish we were. I was thinking this morning about the wonderful scene in "Lie to Me" with Angel coming to her bedroom, and how well Alyson H. handled the mixed excitement, curiosity ... and most importantly, fear of her parents finding a *boy* in her room. :-D (And *what* a boy, dear readers!) Then I thought about that moment where she asks Angel if he'll bite her if he doesn't like the answers she gives him. It seemed like a strange moment, but I think in all it was a throwaway moment, because of all the characters, Willow is the one with the most faith in Angel. But why? I think back on that cute Halloween moment when Willow gently chides Buffy by insisting that Angel would never fall victim to Cordelia's charms. And the fact that Willow continues to defend Angel to Buffy when Buffy has doubts (when she saw Dru with him in the cemetery). And hey--Willow really was more concerned about her mom finding Angel in her room rather than the fact that Angel was there. And I think that's one of the reasons Angel is drawn to her. Like Clarence in "It's a Wonderful Life," Willow has the faith of a child--faith in Angel. The question is, is this a good thing or a bad thing? Is Buffy's continuing doubt and distrust of Angel the key to her self-preservation? Is Willow's trust and faith in Angel's goodness going to be stripped away as she gets older and wiser? These questions are more rhetorical than anything else, but I *am* fascinated by the Angel/Willow dynamic and hope to continue seeing them together. Willow gives Angel the approval and acceptance he needs, and Angel gives Willow--well, theirs *is* a forbidden love! ;-) Jennifer Hale jrosehale@aol.com - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 10:14:11 -0800 From: Mark Safransky Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy Thoughts > Kat asked: > in many kinds of vampire lore vampires can become human again if the > master vampire that made them is killed. If this is true in Joss's world > that means Dru and Spike would become human if Angel was killed. > Actually, I believe that only works for werewolves, not vampires. I remember a television show from the late 80's called Werewolf that dealt with just such a premise. Guy got bit by friend who was awerewolf and killed him. He was still a werewolf, but learned he would have to kill the werewolf at the beginning of the bloodline he was a part of to return to being human. Pretty good show that only lasted a year. I never heard about this working for vampires. I thought that if you killed the Master Vampire it released the humans who were under his mental control as well as people he had been feeding on and would eventually make vampires. They were freed because the vampire was no longer feeding on them and making them drink his vampiric blood. Or something like that. - -- Mark Safransky / mailto:x-lander@geocities.com / ICQ 1507675 http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/8185/buffy.html Proud Member of the Buffy Crew, GASPers, AGA, MCTP, BtVSFC, Slayerettes and the Buffaholics. Watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer on the WB Mondays at 9 Eastern. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:48:28 -0400 From: Jesse Jou Subject: Re: BUFFY: RE: the vampire wannabes >On Tue, 4 Nov 1997 O3rdiBlnd@aol.com wrote: > >> Why was Ford a vampire at the end?!?! >> It doens't really make too much sense, Another reason why Spike changed Chipmunk Lad may have been to punish him, not Buffy. As Lisa Rose noted, it plays into the whole "do you know what you wish? Are you certain what you wish is what you want?" theme in BtVS. After all, despite Buffy's careful warning to him about what really happens when you get turned, Chevrolet...er...Buick...er....FORD! seemed pretty indifferent and ignorant to the "reality" of vampirism in BtVS. Perhaps this was one to grow on from Spikey to the Lad, and if Buffy felt any regret about having to put him down, then so much the better? Also, Jennifer Cumming noted Todd Babcock (Ted the Frat Cabalist) was seen impregnating Roz (Peri Gilpin) on Frazier. I exhibit no surprise. Those servants of a dark, underworld demon tend to give it away for free. Todd Babcock, Hell's Gigolo. (In fact, the character he played on Frazier was principled and responsible, 180 degrees from The Evil Ted, so I call him this with only the greatest respect for his craft.) I can't wait for next week's episode, although I'll have to record it as I'm going out of town. It looks like we're going to see Giles's "Newcastle" (Fans of Jamie Delano's first run on Hellblazer will recognize this reference, I trust). Just my rambling. JJ - - ------------------------------ End of buffy-digest V1 #415 *************************** To subscribe to buffy or buffy-digest, send the command subscribe buffy-digest or subscribe buffy to majordomo@xmission.com. You will need to go through a confirmation process, and the listowners have to manually approve your subscription request, so it may take some time. Back issues of this digest can be found at: ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/buffy/archive/ For help, contact Jill Kirby (jtkirby@mcs.com) or sah (romana@mindspring.com)