From: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com (buffy-digest) To: buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: buffy-digest V2 #51 Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com Sender: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk buffy-digest Wednesday, January 21 1998 Volume 02 : Number 051 In this issue: Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS) Re: BUFFY: questions on the 2 parter Re: BUFFY: Let them eat Angel Food Cake! (Random thoughts...) BUFFY: Oz's Van Re: BUFFY: Oz's Van BUFFY: Thoughts on Innocence (Spoilers) Re: BUFFY: questions on the 2 parter Re: BUFFY: Let them eat Angel Food Cake! (Random thoughts...) BUFFY: David on AOL 2night Re: BUFFY: Let them eat Angel Food Cake! (Random thoughts...) Re: BUFFY: Tuesday's Episode BUFFY: DAVID IN YM Re: BUFFY: Wounded Willow & Stuff (Review...) Re: BUFFY: Keeper site BUFFY: Willow and Xander, huh? Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS) BUFFY: Answer to the Pager question. Re: BUFFY: David Boreanaz/ *willow/oz*pic? Re: BUFFY: My Surprise/Innocence Comments BUFFY: Who's happy about evil Angel? BUFFY: Yet Another "Innocence" Gushing Re: BUFFY: Who's happy about evil Angel? Re: BUFFY: Who's happy about evil Angel?(addition) BUFFY: How Can Angel Be Good Again?.... Re: BUFFY: My Nov. 97 Anthony Stewart Head Interview. Re: BUFFY: Let them eat Angel Food Cake! (Random thoughts...) Re: BUFFY: Oz's Van Re: BUFFY: "Sex = Disaster" Metaphor BUFFY: Record High Ratings! BUFFY: Lotsa new Buffy viewers Re: BUFFY: INNOCENCE See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:40:32 -0800 From: lrous@juno.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS) I don't see any reason for Giles to be mad at Jenny. She was doing exactly what he was doing--watching. If she can forgive him for almost getting her killed, then he shouldn't be so quick to cast her aside. He just has to balance the need to stay on Buffy's good side with his love for Jenny--keep the two apart, that's all. Len _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:27:33 -0800 From: lrous@juno.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: questions on the 2 parter On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:30:10 -0500 DPartha writes: >Some questions, though. >How come Oz knew that Willow witnessed Cordy and Xander in a clinch? >In the van, he says that some people might think that Willow wanted to kiss >Oz only to get back at Xander. At the time, Oz wasn't in the library or >anywhere near the school. Or at least if he was, they don't show it. I got the impression that this was just more evidence of Oz's perceptiveness. Oz IS Sherlock Holmes, you know. Len _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:09:01 -0800 From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: Let them eat Angel Food Cake! (Random thoughts...) At 09:55 AM 1/21/98 EST, RayneFire wrote: >When Willow said, "And anyway, Angel's coming, so she'll be able to >protect him and have cake." The first thing that popped into my mind >was, She'll be able to have [her] cake and Angel too! Or Angel food cake? Funny that Dru's punishment for her "bad" dolls is that they don't get cake. Angel's bad now, so I guess that's why he didn't end up getting any of Buffy's birthday cake (or did he...?). Another weird Buffy & Dru parallel (besides their mutual attraction to Angel), are we to believe they both have roughly the same birthday?! I suppose that Spike and Dru could have been preparing a macabre party just for Buffy's birthday. But Dru's excitement over opening the presents suggested it was her birthday too. Plus, they both have the gift of "sight" (prophecy). (Dru through her visions, Buffy through her dreams). The parallels between them are starting to add up... BTW, did anyone else feel that The Judge, rather than being some series-significant monster, was written into the story mostly as a plot device, as a "soul tester" who could verify to Spike and Dru (and to us the audience) that Angel had really lost his soul and wasn't bluffing? Oooh, it really makes me wonder... Lisa - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:20:59 +0000 From: "T" Subject: BUFFY: Oz's Van Okay, wasn't the wheel on the OTHER side of Oz's van in Halloween? I remember thinking to myself, "Oh cool, his van is like they have in England, with the wheel on the right side." Yet now the wheel is *definitely* on the regular side. So was I dreaming while watching Halloween a few gazillion times? Has anyone else noticed the same thing? - --T T(Tee/Tseeps on IRC) ******************** * tack@dorsai.org * *tseeps@hotmail.com* ******************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:27:14 -0500 From: "Ryan Harrington" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Oz's Van Exactly what i thought but it turns out that oz must have two vans....or one was the bands - - Subject: BUFFY: Thoughts on Innocence (Spoilers) Well, hello everyone, I haven't actually said anything on the list up 'til now, but this last episode has broken my silence, so here're my comments and thoughts on S/I, apologize if I'm repeating anything other people've said.. First thing I was thinking of, was in Buffy's dream where Angel directed her to Jenny, the scene seemed to be a funeral.. So, who's funeral was it? Angel's? Jenny's uncle's? Or was it just representing Buffy's current view of life? Sorry.. that just sorta stuck in my head for some reason. :) As far as if Angel gets his soul back.. I don't really see a future for him and Buffy. The things he's done are not going to be easily forgotten. And if he remains a vampire, even with a soul, I don't see it easy for Buffy to overlook the possibility of "What if he loses it again?" I also don't really see how Angel can face Buffy after all that's happened. Feeling guilty about someone you killed is one thing. Feeling guilty about something awful you did to someone who you have to look at and deal with is another thing all together. (Not that murder is so easy to deal with, mind you... it's just the other pain would have a more in-your-face reminder, IMHO) Felt sorry for Spike what with him now having to deal with Angel bein' around his best girl, and him not even at full strength. And if Dru isn't the gypsy girl (the timeline definately seems wrong, though I found the "he killed every one who touched her life and destroyed her" quote interesting.. note "destroyed", not killed/murdered/whatever.. ) Anyhow, if Dru isn't the gypsy girl, than Angel apparently did a lot of obsessing over girls and driving them insane in his time. Of course Dru did almost die in Prague.. isn't that Rom country, sorta? Of course, she coulda been around Angel when all that happened. Then Angel gets cursed and runs off and Dru gets lynched, only to be saved by Spike. (well, I'm assuming.) But I don't see how Dru could be GG, if she sired Spike and the three of them spent time frolicking about the European countryside together. (since Spike has already described Angel as being his "Yoda") So, maybe said Trio were frolicking about, Angel meets Gypsy Girl, thinks "Cool! New victim" Proceeds with torture, madness, killing, etc.. Gets cursed, gypsies lynch Dru and Spike, almost killind Dru, and the Jolly Three are seperated until their fateful reuinion in Sunnydale... Anyone have any thoughts on that? And with Giles and Buffy snubbing Miss C... I don't think she deserves it, but I can understand their feelings. I don't believe that she knew what would happen if Buffy and Angel got together, though. It just.. happened. I can see Giles wondering to himself, though, "Did she REALLY like me, or was I just a path to get closer to her 'assignment'?" Of course, I don't think this is the case, but how's he to know?? I hurt expression on Willow's face when she saw Xander and Cordelia together.. AAAUGH! That just ripped my heart out! Poor Will.. And poor Cordie, too, with Xander running after Willow.. wonder what she was thinking? She's got some competition from Will and from Buffy. Probably not something she's used to. I think Oz will be good for Willow and I hope nothing beastly and horrid happens to their relationship before it even starts! And some responses to stuff other people said: > Suddenly, with only one person looking at her, she's > modest? Come on, some consitancy here, people. Well, I would say it probably had something to do with WHO was looking at her. She was probably much more self-conscious being exposed in front of Angel.. alone... as opposed to around many people isn't pining for. > Then, in the second part, when Calendar goes to see her uncle, he says > it's already too late. Does that mean that at that point he already > knows that Angel achieved his moment of happiness and has now lost his > soul? Didn't he mention something about an "old woman" or something in Surprise who could "feel" Angel's emotions and how his pain was much less or something to that affect?? Maybe he was still in contact with her, and she was how he knew what had become of Angel. And perhaps she will be the solution to getting Angel's soul back. > Similarly, the Hellmouth > could be causing some sort of effect that muddles people's minds so that > they aren't as aware of the supernatural stuff as they normally would be. The Whitewolf "World of Darkness" has a similar thing called "The Veil" where when people see things (such as the werewolves) their subconscious covers it up.. "This wild dog attacked me!" and the only way I think the veil can be lifted is if someone directly "moves" it from a person. Such as a werewolf revealing their true form to someone and directly telling them, "I'm a werewolf! See?" or something along those lines.. haven't played in awhile. :/ But, I find it quite possible the Sunnydalers are under some similar shield to protect their minds from things they're most likely better off not knowing. And, I think that's about all I can think of for the moment. Sorry for makin' this so long. :) Tammy - tlc@rust.net GASPer, keeper of Giles mattress, Keeper of Willow's first meeting with Buffy, Willow's lost bet with Xander, and Willow's sudden realization of the meaning of "I Touch Myself" Tammy - tlc@rust.net GASPer, keeper of Giles mattress, Keeper of Willow's first meeting with Buffy, Willow's lost bet with Xander, and Willow's sudden realization of the meaning of "I Touch Myself" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:28:16 -0800 (PST) From: Lev Rickards Subject: Re: BUFFY: questions on the 2 parter >>How come Oz knew that Willow witnessed Cordy and Xander in a clinch? >>In the van, he says that some people might think that Willow wanted to >kiss >>Oz only to get back at Xander. At the time, Oz wasn't in the library or >>anywhere near the school. Or at least if he was, they don't show it. No one said Oz knew about that. More likely, in my warped view of reality, Oz knows a little bit about Willow. Maybe he's seen the way she acts around Xander. He didn't make any reference to actually knowing about Willow knowing about C&X, just knowing about Willow's feelings. ~Lev o0O The House of Rogue............................................. o0O http://thehouse.home.ml.org................................... o0O Proprietor: Lev Rickards........................................ o0O E-mail: levtolstoy@geocities.com............................ Potential Keeper of The Monkey's Pants......The Future is in Beta - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:34:27 -0600 From: sah Subject: Re: BUFFY: Let them eat Angel Food Cake! (Random thoughts...) Lisa Rose wrote: > BTW, did anyone else feel that The Judge [snip] was written into > the story mostly as a plot device, as a "soul tester" > who could verify to Spike and Dru (and to us the > audience) that Angel had really lost his soul Actually, when they first revealed what he did, I thought he was going to burn Angel's soul out of him and turn him bad again. Kinda glad the episode wasn't *that* predictable. - --sah - -- sah * romana@mindspring.com * romana@aol.com * BtVS Co-listowner NatPack*BotCoS*Jungle Patrol*Bishop*Bossy Dwarf*BBPGrrl:GLIL BTVSML page: http://www.mindspring.com/~romana/buffylist/index.html Nat's B&B: http://free.prohosting.com/~romana/natpack/index.html "Fun made this body." --Drew Carey - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:12:03 EST From: Kemilla Subject: BUFFY: David on AOL 2night AHHHH!! for anyone with AOL..Angel is online tonight at 10 PM eastern time keyword LIVE... :))))) - -alissa - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:33:37 -0500 From: "Ryan Harrington" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Let them eat Angel Food Cake! (Random thoughts...) I had a totally different idea about what would happen. I thought that Angel would be evil and thats how they would destroy the judge(by the way that was soooooooo tacky how they recycled brian thompson(luke) to play the judge). I >Actually, when they first revealed what he did, I thought he was going >to burn Angel's soul out of him and turn him bad again. Kinda glad the >episode wasn't *that* predictable. >--sah - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:30:56 EST From: Kemilla Subject: Re: BUFFY: Tuesday's Episode << David was on E! tonight and said how things were heating up and changing drastically. Ya think?? He went on a shopping spree in NYC and got some spiffy clothes. He can definitely clean up well. >> Ah! when was this? ;) - -alissa - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:48:41 -0500 From: Schmotzer Family Subject: BUFFY: DAVID IN YM i just got my march issue of ym and david w/ two other guys are on the cover. he is inside w/ a little segment of the 50 hottest guys under the sun (i had to laugh when i saw the title). well, just thought everyone would like to know. i was also wondering if you had to claim your quotes like you do the objects? thanks moon_child schmotz@sgi.net *keeper of buffy's duct tape* - -tonight the dead will try and pull a pinky and the brain and try to take over the world. *buffy* - -willow, are you pondering what i'm pondeing? *xander* (halloween rain) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:46:15 -0800 From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: Wounded Willow & Stuff (Review...) At 10:56 AM 1/21/98 -0500, Michael Hickerson wrote: > So, when I saw that "Innocence" had been both written and directed >by Joss Whedon, I sat up with greater interest... being by Whedon only >raised the stakes a bit for me. After all, he had also given us earlier >this year the spectacular "Lie to Me," and I was prepared for more. Yes, "Lie to Me" is one of my most favorite ep's of the whole series. Isn't it interesting that Joss-directed "Innocence" and "LtM" both featured such touching, poignant talks between Buffy and Giles at their ends? A coincidence, or does Joss have something to say to Buffy? > But a lot of other relationships were changed forever. The whole >Xander-Cordy-Willow-Oz quadralateral took on a whole shape this week. I >am glad that we saw Willow finally catch Xander and Cordy in one of their >make-out sessions. But isn't it ironic (don't you think) though that this particular Xander/Cordy make-out session was one of their first that didn't seem fueled by pure hatred, that there was actually some tenderness and laughter in it? And it's the first one that Willow sees... Maybe it would have been less threatening for Willow to see one of X&C's fumbling broom closet encounters first? Lisa - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:47:09 -0800 From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: Keeper site At 05:25 PM 1/21/98 EST, Jillium5 wrote: >Can someone send me the adress to the keeper site for minor characters/(Oz if >there is one) thanks A General Public Service Announcement: You can link to all of the character keeper pages from the Keeper Index at: http://www.wco.com/~cybrpaws/keepindx.html Happy Keeping! Lisa - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:41:23 EST From: VenussV Subject: BUFFY: Willow and Xander, huh? In a message dated 98-01-20 22:55:25 EST, RayneFire@aol.com writes: << She finally admitted her feelings to Xander. >> Stupid me had to go to karate last night and was forced to miss "I". Then, my VCR, promptly, threw up the tape. Needless to say I was very upset. How did she do it? I got alot of the info from a friend who loves Buffy too, but I guess she left it out. Help!!! Jessica - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:20:10 From: Theodore Jay Miller Subject: Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS) At 02:45 PM 1/21/98, Jeff Rohaly wrote: >I never have understood this curse. So the vampire demon Angelus >kills this "dumb as a post" gypsy girl and her clan decides to punish >an entity, Angel's soul, that had nothing to do with this death. The gypsies seem to be working on the assumption, right or wrong, of "soul as conscience" rather than "soul as self", i.e. that Angel and Angelus are basically the same person, but with or without a conscience. (Giles had a different view, but is he right, or are the gypsies right?). To punish Angelus for killing the gypsy girl, the gypsies gave him a soul, a conscience, so he'd be miserable, wracked with guilt and remorse for all the evil things he'd done. And it might be an inherent limitation of the curse, not something the gypsies chose to put in, that if the curse is no longer fulfilling its function of making Angel miserable, i.e. if he's truly happy, the curse will end. Theodore Jay Miller tedjmill@mindspring.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:01:17 EST From: Raininfire Subject: BUFFY: Answer to the Pager question. In a message dated 1/21/98 6:22:35 PM, you wrote: <> Hi. Buffy has a beeper. In the NKABOTFD episode from the first season, Buffy wants to go on her date with Owen. She tells Giles to page her if she's needed. Raininfire, GASPer, Keeper of Giles' Dictionary Member of Miss Calendar's Technopagans Keeper of Willow's Fear of Spiders Keeper of Cordelia's Original Teddy Bear Backpack from Gustaad Keeper of Drusilla's Victorian Canopy Bed Drusilla's "Adopt a Vamp" Parent, and more. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:28:50 PST From: "Colleen Matthews" Subject: Re: BUFFY: David Boreanaz/ *willow/oz*pic? > >David Boreanaz will be on the Keenan Ivory Wayans show on Monday the 26th. He > What channel is this show on??? Does anyone know of a pic w/ Willow and Oz together? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:39:46 From: Theodore Jay Miller Subject: Re: BUFFY: My Surprise/Innocence Comments At 09:19 PM 1/20/98 EST, locaste wrote: >I don't like traditional "woman has sex and must be punished" >storylines. So I can only enjoy _this_ story only when I >consciously lay aside the politics. An alternate interpretation might be a "woman with abusive boyfriend" storyline. Buffy fell in love with a guy who seemed nice, but turned out to be cruel and abusive to her and her friends (and he had a drinking problem, so to speak). Although initially devastated by this, Buffy finally showed her strength, stood up to him, and gave him a kick where it really hurt. So perhaps she's not so much a woman being punished for having sex, but instead a woman being unfairly punished who in the end fights back. Theodore Jay Miller tedjmill@mindspring.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:56:11 +0000 From: Jack Welsh Subject: BUFFY: Who's happy about evil Angel? I'm so happy that Angel is evil again! This means (for a while) there will be no more romance crap between them. In my opinion the romance is really bringing the show down. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:42:28 -0500 From: grandnagus@juno.com Subject: BUFFY: Yet Another "Innocence" Gushing Due to the heading, there are obviously spoilers here. All I can do is concur with the other list members....WOW!!! Although I sometimes don't like all the gushing over new episodes on the list, this one deserves the gushing it got! First off....Angel, of course! I said before I didn't want the "Buffy and Angel Show"...but I didn't mean I wanted Angel evil again! Kudos to Joss for a daring move...and especially for not hitting the "RESET" button at the end of the episode. (However, I do want the old Angel back! He made for a fascinating character in the show, and I hope they find a way to make him "good" again. I want Buffy and Angel to be together; I just don't want them to be the whole show.) The one problem I have with this is David's status as a full-time cast member; we don't need Angelus flung into every episode just to keep David working. Now for Spike and Dru. I love the role reversal; IMO, Spike was too much of a braggart and bully to be a good leader anyway...and Dru's a great villain; almost as good as the Master! Who's with me on welcoming the two-parter Drusilla as the "New and Improved Dru"? I think it's ironic that the characters that had the so-called "perfect" matches (there was almost no dissent on the list from the matches of Buffy/Angel and Giles/Calender; I remember some recent posts that were very angry at someone's suggestion that Joyce and Giles get together) had them both destroyed (well, either destroyed or damaged extremely). I think it was a great bit of ret-con to introduce our Techno-Pagan Jenny as a secret agent of the gypsies. I just hope that she's able to reconcile with the other Slayerettes, because I really did like her. The Judge....The only part of the episode I didn't like. I thought he was a rather uninteresting character; and Brian Thomsen sounded rather tired; especially in "Innocence". I also thought the way he was destroyed was rather boring (I was hoping for something a bit more mystical than a missile launcher.) Unlike others on the list, I don't have a problem with Brian playing two different roles; I got used to it with Star Trek (which had numerous multiple actor appearances; and in another favorite genre of mine, (Japanese sci-fi/fantasy) many actors and actresses did different roles in the shows; one actress appeared at least three times in different shows as the same "evil empress" type of role (This was Machiko Soga; MMPR fans would know her as the original Rita Repulsa). I just wish Brian had done as well with the Judge as he did with Luke. Is there more? I'm sure there is, but I can't think of it right now. All I can say is...I can't wait until Monday! (Whoops...I mean Tuesday. Geez, that'll be hard to get used to!) =============================================================== A Message from the Grand Nagus AKA Latinum Racer and Shadam http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5477/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:12:23 -0600 From: "Jason Liles" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Who's happy about evil Angel? ME, I'm happy, and I agree with you 1,000 percent! - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:26:28 -0600 From: "Jason Liles" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Who's happy about evil Angel?(addition) Sorry about the previous post, I forgot my addy jrliles@msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:34:38 -0800 (PST) From: Sonja Marie Subject: BUFFY: How Can Angel Be Good Again?.... And in such a way Buffy will forgive him? Hey I actually prefer Angel evil, DB has acted better in Innocence then all his other eps together, and I've never been a fan of the Buffy and Angel couple, so this is fun for me to see, BUT let's suppose Joss decides to *fix* Angel again, how would he go about doing this so that Buffy and Co, will actually forgive Angel for what he did while being evil again (NOTE: I'm still not sure why they forgave him in the first place after finding out what he did in the past, well I do sorta, but having him kill now might not make them forgive him, if he becomes good again). So how can he become good again? Cliches of course!... 1. Buffy is actually in a coma, she drowned when she got dumped in the water and this is all a dream ala Dynasty. 2. Giles discovers away to go back in time, and stops Buffy from having sex with Angel, keeping the curse in tact. 3. The "Evil Angel" is a very convincing clone and the "Real Angel" is being held by a new evil in town. Any other ideas? Sonja Marie - The White Rose @--'->-- http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/sonja.html Paul Wylie Fan Pages - http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/pwylie/pwylie.html Owner of the Jeff Fahey, Paul Wylie, Anthony S. Head, & Buffy-Beta Lists Pres. of Giles' Appreciation Society Panters - GASP!- Keeper of Coats & Ties Anthony Stewart Head (Giles-BTVS) About What Fans Sent Him in the Mail: "Fair amount of lingerie, yeah, all of which I tried, none of which fitted" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:43:44 -0800 From: lrous@juno.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: My Nov. 97 Anthony Stewart Head Interview. Anthony Stewart Head (Giles) loved Terry Pratchett's "Discworld"? I knew there was something exceptionally wonderful about him. I wonder if he's played the computer games? Len R. -- He dreamed the dream of book publishers everywhere, to have so much gold that he'd need to hire two people just to hold his trousers up. -- Terry Pratchett, "Maskerade". _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:56:23 -0800 From: lrous@juno.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Let them eat Angel Food Cake! (Random thoughts...) Talking about the seeming similarities of Buffy's and Dru's birthday gave me a wile idea--what if ALL slayers have the same birthday; it would add a strange synchronicity to the "for every generation there is a slayer" routine. Maybe Dru was a former slayer, or meant to be one, and Angel killed her. Wouldn't that be a kick in the head? Len _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:44:31 EST From: Tanjelli Subject: Re: BUFFY: Oz's Van In a message dated 98-01-21 18:30:50 EST, you write: << Exactly what i thought but it turns out that oz must have two vans....or one was the bands - the producers probably flipped the image for some other reason besides the van thing and didn't really pay any attention to that. possibly because willow walked from the wrong side fo the street or something like that, a mistaping... •••••••••••••••••••••••• <3 from meeh! luv lots, jelli been willow's peak tangerine queen keeper of taco bells princess leia :-) tanjelli@aol.com :-) Kelli •••••••••••••••••••••••• - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:36:03 -0800 From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: "Sex = Disaster" Metaphor At 09:19 PM 1/20/98 EST, Iocaste wrote: >3) ... while on the one hand I really like Joss's addition of "morning-after >rejection" to his catalogue of high school horrors, on the other hand I don't >like traditional "woman has sex and must be punished" storylines. So I can >only enjoy _this_ story only when I consciously lay aside the politics. I definitely took it as the former and not much as the latter. Joss is merciless in the way he makes vague high school sexual anxieties flesh (literally), week after week. In Teacher's Pet, he exploited the fears that some teenage boys might have about older, more confident, sexually-aggressive women, namely, fears of being consumed by them, of having their heads bitten off (so to speak). (Note, this fear is apparently not a problem in Dawson's Creek). As far as I see it, the "Angel turns into a demon after sex" scenario was a metaphor for the classic fear that many girls might have when they finally consent to have sex with a guy (or girl, I guess) for the first time. Namely, "What if all of this person's innocence and kindness is just an act to get me into bed? What if he won't care about me anymore and starts acting like a jerk after he gets what he wants?" Though the outward circumstances of the Angel thing were different (supernatural, not-his-fault, and all), it still taps into such fears, imho. As far as the politics go, I'm pretty sensitive to gender- biases in portrayals usually. But I think Joss has distributed the "Sex = Disaster" messages pretty evenly among the male and female characters, so I really can't fault him there (unless you want to argue that he will make kids paranoid of sex, regardless of their gender). Lisa - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:42:27 From: Jeff Rohaly Subject: BUFFY: Record High Ratings! The national household ratings for last night's Part 2, Innocence: 5.3 rating/8 share Wow. That beats Buffy's previous record, that stood for 1 day, which was the 4.4 rating for Monday's Surprise episode and represents an 83% increase over the 2.9 rating for the first episode of this season, When She Was Bad. (BTW, Dawson's Creek dropped off to a 4.8 rating/8 share.) This all comes from Ultimate TV. Jeff Rohaly rohaly@iaw.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:47:59 -0500 From: Brian Taylor Subject: BUFFY: Lotsa new Buffy viewers Just wondering if anyone else noticed more people talking about BtVS today than before. A lot of kids in school would start talking about Dawson's Creek, then end up on BtVS....looks like the move was one of the better things for the show.... Brian net_jedi@geocities.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:27:11 EST From: Kitiara L Subject: Re: BUFFY: INNOCENCE In a message dated 98-01-21 09:51:54 EST, you write: << Angel would be doubly hard to take down than Dru and Spike as Angel undoubtedly has the brains in this trio. Spike had used brute force to take down the slayer but as Angel put it, "You had to first love her." >> Actually, I could've sworn he said "To kill her you have to love her" which I thought was a little weird because it was in the present tense. As for me, David scares me as bad Angel, but the next few episodes are going to be really dramatic and most likely, knowing Joss, really good. I love Oz. He seems to be soooo nice. I just wish there were guys like him at my school. It'll be a shame if he ends up being a werewolf, but I really hope they don't kill him off. Xander and Cordy were really cute in this episode. I think that their relationship is starting to go past the hormones a little. I hope it continues to grow and it should be interesting to see how Buffy reacts and how WIllow deals. From a different perspective, it'd be funny also to see how some of Cordy's friends would take the news. Sarah was so great. Basically, she was just wonderful and watching her cry like that made me so sad! Especially during the scene with Angel in his apartment. Ouch! Did anyone else think that the old movie at the end was cute? The words especially were really adorable. I also heard a country song "Strawberry Wine" by Deanna Carter that reminded me a whole bunch of these two episodes. I've rambled enough now. Kelanna Keeper of Angel's Good Taste in Art Keeper of Angel and Buffy's Kiss on the Ice Keeper of Buffy's Brown Shirt (WML) Keeper of Willow's Slayer T-shirt "Cuz that would be cool" - - ------------------------------ End of buffy-digest V2 #51 ************************** To subscribe to buffy or buffy-digest, send the command subscribe buffy-digest or subscribe buffy to majordomo@xmission.com. You will need to go through a confirmation process, and the listowners have to manually approve your subscription request, so it may take some time. Back issues of this digest can be found at: ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/buffy/archive/ For help, contact Jill Kirby (jtkirby@mcs.com) or sah (romana@mindspring.com)