From: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com (buffy-digest) To: buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: buffy-digest V2 #57 Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com Sender: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk buffy-digest Friday, January 23 1998 Volume 02 : Number 057 In this issue: BUFFY: Tapes BUFFY: GASP!: Oddness and the Whole ASH Transcript Re: BUFFY: James Marsters, really a Brit? BUFFY: symbolism & heartache Re: BUFFY: BAD Angel! BAD! BAD! No biscuit! BUFFY: David on AOL Tonight BUFFY: Cruel Inventions BUFFY: The self-destructing curse Re: BUFFY: my thoughts on the 2 parter BUFFY: Curses Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Birthday Candle BUFFY: SPOILER******** BUFFY: Xander & Cordelia Re: BUFFY: Curses See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:04:32 -0500 From: Crimson Subject: BUFFY: Tapes Hi .. Not sure if this is taboo or not, asking for tapes on list.. hope not. I know I saw something about it on one of the lists I am on .. but not sure which. Anyway... I totally badly need copies of the followiing first season eps of Buffy. SP copies if possible. "Angel" and "I Robot, You Jane" I would be happy to pay postage and the cost of the blank, other than that if anyone needs SP copies of any of the season 2 eps.. I would also be willing to trade. Thanks Folks Crimson "I'm not ashamed. It's the computer age. Nerds are in." "Willow: Prophecy Girl" - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:50:24 -0800 (PST) From: Sonja Marie Subject: BUFFY: GASP!: Oddness and the Whole ASH Transcript Halo! Since I know from the past that there are ppl who don't have net access, like Karen P., I'm posting the whole transcript. What's odd though is that the name at the top of the status line reads "Linden Ashby", but it's Tony's chat. There are many typos, including Joss' name, who went from Joe Swedon to Jeff! OYE! The person who was typing it obviously didn't know much about the show, and messed up alot on what Tony actually said, even missing words! I'll go through and make corrections in () . HLHost says "I am really excited about the show. We have a very special guest joining us in the studio tonight, Anthony Stewart Head from the hit Television series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". You may recognize Anthony from his continuing role on the popular Tasters Choice commercial series. Let's all welcome Anthony to the show!" HLHost says "How are you?" AnthonyStewartHead says "Very good thank you." HLHost says "Give us a little background on your show." AnthonyStewartHead says "There was a movie about eight years ago that Joe Sweden (Joss Whedon) wrote called "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". It's about a high school (student) who finds out she's the chosen one. Every generation one is chosen to kill a vampire. The movie was a cult success. When he was approached to make it he said yes if we can do it my way. He's basically the helmsman. He's a genius. He got tired of seeing the blonde bimbo and getting eaten by monster. He gave her the power and I'm the watcher. no going to the mall or going out with the people. There's serious slaying to be done." HLHost says "What does a watcher do?" AnthonyStewartHead says "I watch a lot and train her. Whenever a question comes up, I look it up in books. We have more than our fair share of demons and vampires and monsters. If anything's going to go wrong, it's going to go wrong here." ExciteUser asks "(lucy_2002) :How did you get the role for Giles...and how could i ever get an audition for a sho like that?" AnthonyStewartHead says "The bottom line is I auditioned any number of actors. Once they saw me they said I put the role under my arm and walked out with it. When I read the script I said, I've got to do this. Then I tested for network and studio and there I was. As far as other people auditioning, a number of people have asked that. Write in to the production company and say that. Apply to someone like central casting for extra work because we have a lot of extras. They are usually cast through a casting agent. It's terribly secure here. Try and get friends to come and see it. That's the best thing. If they want a part then they have to get an agent. We don't have that many guests on the show. We usually have one main one. It's enough to get all our story lines here." EoF asks "Giles has really evolved alot since the beginning of the show. Where do you see the character going in the future?" AnthonyStewartHead says "It's a good question. Recently we had a situation where another slayer turned out because Buffy died technically. She drowned at end of last season but was revived. When one slayer dies another one is created. How I fit in that and where it goes, I don't know. Jeff's (Joss) imagination is so phenomenal. We're now on episode 17 which is dramatically heavy for me. There's some wicked stuff happening in it. I can't tell you what but it's phenomenal. It's going to be extremely original. I don't know how it will go next season if there is one. It looks good. It amazes me. Jeff (Joss) is already starting to have ideas. There was a point when I had an episode about Giles' dark past. I pitched some of my ideas and they thought it was interesting. It was nice to be heard. The people I work with do listen to me. They really do take on board what we say. It's great." HLHost says "How involved was he in picking out cast members?" AnthonyStewartHead says "Hugely. He's very specific about what he wants and he's involved from everything. he's invovled in costumes and props." AkiraStar asks "Tony, your performance in the recent two-parter episode of Buffy was just excellent...as usual...and I was just wondering how do you go from working "Taster's Choice" commercials to being a Watcher for a Slayer that obviously has a mind of her own?" AnthonyStewartHead says "Well thank you very much. It's just another role. I'm very lucky to have been given so much variety in my career. I've gone from Rocky Horror to a play called "Rope", complete opposites to doing Taster's Choice guy. When I read it, it's very difficult as an actor because every script you get you think, I could do that. There are a few that you just know are your parts. No one else can do it better than me. This is one of them. It reads somewhere between Hugh Grant and another English actor. Which way do you want it and they said kind of in the middle. He's quite strong and it's nice to play. Tuesday at 8:00. The make-up artist thought--he got very confused when I walked in. I'm slightly different from Giles. I'm a bit looser." AnthonyStewartHead says "My clothes are a bit funkier than Giles'. I'm very sorry I thought you were so different. It's flattering to know that people believe in Giles. And I hadn't had rampant sex. My girlfriend is in England and I'm her (here). I just went back and visited her and the kids. I went back at Thanksgiving and two weeks at Christmas. Six is the magic number because it takes about three to travel. I need three days with them. It's worse going with less time than that. It's hard. These are the breaks. here I am involved in a hit TV show which a lot of actors would kill to do. So you can't complain so I'm not." ExciteUser asks "(rose2001):What was your favorite episod of BUFF?" AnthonyStewartHead says "I really loved the Dark Age which was about Giles' past because it gave me room to play. I was able to stretch myself a bit. We're going to let you have a go because you've earned it. I think otherwise from the first season I really liked Nightmares. I thought it was really well told. I didn't see it when it first aired because I was in England. They didn't send me that one. I got it late. There have been some really good episodes. One of the things that makes the series a success is it's the right thing. It's intelligent writing. It doesn't pretend to be a serious thing. It's got a great flow to it. The other thing is the strength of the cast. There isn't a weak link. Everybody involved in the show makes a contribution. We're cast for our voices and the different things we can add." moon_child asks "what are the other actors and cast like" AnthonyStewartHead says "Lovely. Exceptionally talented. They're going to be stars. Just really special. It's right across the board they're exceptional people. It's a pleasure to work with them. It helps to enjoy the people I work with. I've been very lucky. It makes all the difference in the world. Working with someone who makes it hard makes the work a job. Being an actor means you get paid for doing something you love. It makes it easy to create when you enjoy the work." kjt asks "Did he ever think of doing anything other than acting?" AnthonyStewartHead says "Well I write. I write music." HLHost says "What kind?" AnthonyStewartHead says "Contemporary rock. I guess it's soul driven. I used to have a band when I was younger but in the end, it's very different here. In England, they have a very specific attitude about mixing rock 'n roll and acting. England is a very strange place. I love it dearly. It's my home but we do have some strange ideas. There are very few rock 'n roll performers who make it over into acting. I got very close to getting a part in Evida. He's a very talented lad. And Sting has done the crossover. Very few are allowed to." AnthonyStewartHead says "I decided to concentrate on acting. I did some musicals. I did "Godspell" and "Around the World in Eighty Days". It was the kind of thing that's not my bag. I like rock and it was a little bit more old fashioned. It was a Victorian story and in those times. It was not hugely enjoyable. A wonderful experience. no, it wasn't actually. I didn't sound bad and we released a single from the show, a ballad that I sang. I do like doing good musicals. I've written one myself. Basically as a model I used Rocky Horror because Rocky is so simple." AnthonyStewartHead says "I'm tired of seeing huge spectacles and I don't mean glasses. I'm tired of seeing those weighty musicals. I'd like to get back to the simplicity of Rocky. It's serious fun. It's very light and it's a bit moody in places. It touches on a few subjects which makes people think a bit. My musical doesn't make people think at all. We're talking to BBC radio. I was actually concentrating in England. I don't know how musicals work here. The country is so huge. In England you find a producer and you go on the road. Here I don't know the trail that it takes to get to Broadway. Why not go that way? So we were talking. It's a funky sort of gothic tale." HLHost says "I hope we see it" AnthonyStewartHead says "So do I." kjt asks "will we get to hear him sing on Buffy?" AnthonyStewartHead says "Not this season. Maybe the fourth season. I don't know whether we're in the position to do it. We're talking about an episode where everybody is forced to sing. I don't know how Giles would sing. It appears that in my past life I was a rock 'n roller because there's a picture of me with a rock 'n roll band. At birthday's party apparently Giles was going to dance. Suddenly unleash it with a James Brown and then stop. Everybody thinks he's such a fuddy duddy." kjt asks "What do your friends in the UK think of the show now that it is being shown?" AnthonyStewartHead says "It's satellite which is not nearly as widely received as cable and satellite is here. Basically it's how shows start in England now. As far as I can tell it's being extremely well received. Two weekends it's been the critics choice. There's nothing else like it on TV. That's the bottom line. There's nothing else as funny or exciting all in one go. That's what he set out to prove that you can have horror and thrills and be funny. You can have real humor about real things and people and you can have somebody coming after them and believe it. I hope. I believe it. If I don't believe it we don't have a chance." ExciteUser asks "(k2punk):Did you have to do any cool research for the part?" AnthonyStewartHead says "I spent a day at a high school before we did the pilot and I hung around the library. Could I make a few political statements for librarians. Libraries are extremely under-valued. One of the strong statements in the show is that nobody goes in the library. She wanted to point out that there are more libraries in prisons than there are in schools. She was fun and we talked about how to order books. We were actually hanging around in the school. I've never been to American school before. It's different than an English school. I felt very much like Giles. I felt out of place. A fish completely out of water. That was a great experience because it wasn't too hard to draw on that." fenric asks "Anthony, what would you like to do as Giles that you haven't been able to do so far(sing, whatever)? Thanks for chatting with us..." AnthonyStewartHead says "I want to do some sword fighting at some point. I did stage fight at drama school like fencing but we talked about sort of training. I don't know what else I'd like to do. They throw stuff at you that you just go, oh that's cool. The stuff coming up in this episode is great. It stretches as much as I want. It's wonderful. Very rarely do you have a job which delivers the facet you want as an actor. This changes all the time. It's my second show that I've had in America. The first one was VR.5. Normally the character gets kind of fixed and then it's about the reactions between the protagonists. In Buffy the characters changes. You never get dried up. It's cool." ExciteUser asks "(ds9fan):how long does it take to make one show of Buffy?" AnthonyStewartHead says "We have an eight day turnaround not including weekends. They shoot a six day week in Canada but a five day week here. We shoot eight days straight through which is remarkable. She's on all the time. Well she's young. Recently she went and did Saturday Night Live. We got interesting plot lines that sort of take her out for a second." (She must be Sarah) ExciteUser asks "(c_o_w) :do u get a lot of fans following u around?" AnthonyStewartHead says "Not following me around but I get a lot of--I'm used to being stopped in the street because of the Taster's Choice gig. Now they recognize me as Giles and it's great. It's very pleasant. I've been in people's living rooms for sometime now as a welcome or unwelcome. People knew they knew me but sometimes they weren't sure why and actually they thought I was a good friend. Now, people have got the name and the face and it's cool." sousan asks "What was the final outcome of the Tasters Choice commercials, who got the girl?" AnthonyStewartHead says "There isn't any final. A competition was run in the magazine before Christmas which put it to vote. The result of that is going to be published in February in Soap Opera Digest. There won't be a final commercial." HLHost says "that sucks!!" AnthonyStewartHead says "What about me. I've got no closure. We under contract until November of last year and there was the time to shoot the last commercial. I don't know. Enough people write to them they might change their minds." HLHost says "Write to Taster's Choice and ask for resolution!!" ExciteUser asks "(Yolks) :you seem to have a very busy career. Do you have any future plans at the moment?" AnthonyStewartHead says "My future plans? I'm going to be here until the end of March and I'm going to hang out for a little while and see if there are any movies. This musical is going to occupy my time. I'm talking to another writer about another feature that we might write. It's fascinating. The thing about America is the enormous amount of creativity and it's nice to be a part of that. We bought a house about three years ago which is just beautiful. I've got horses there. It's about ten acres of land and dogs and cats and fish. Everything. I don't want to relocate but it definitely seems to be the place for me to be for the moment." HLHost says "Made a good choice?" AnthonyStewartHead says "Oh yeah. Definitely. I don't know. They were designed by Gareth DAvis who is our producer. I wonder if it has to do with the Welch. I am putting my cap on now." speedyG asks "What was your favorite role you played?" AnthonyStewartHead says "Ever? it's a choice between Frank which was the most extraordinary experience. Just the most phenomenal power. No one has ever experienced something like that the audience has learned to heckle through watching the move and being part of that. Having the responsibility of putting the hecklers down. I answered everything and there was this constant bantering going on. I learned to put someone down with a look. The power to stop somebody in their tracks just by looking at them. It was incredibly free. I had good friends who would come into the dressing room afterwards and they couldn't talk to me until I removed the make-up. They were scared by me. I'm a little demonic. I'm not cuddly. I was a bit of a demon. So my Frank has got an edge to him." AnthonyStewartHead says "The other part was in "Rote" (Rope). It was a beautiful play. It has little to do with the movie. The play is a psychological thriller. I got some very nice things said about me. It's encouraging to know you're on the right track. It's somewhere between them. I've played all sorts of fun things. I've been in the game for about 22 years. I've had some good times and long may they continue." Rydini asks "Most embarrasing moment ever?" AnthonyStewartHead says "That's one of those questions I dread because my mind goes blank. I did a trade show for--I think it was a huge corporation--something like banking or computers. I was presenting it. They had dances and lights. It was one of those gigs you do when it's early in your career. I did the first gig really well. They asked me back for a second one. We had three days' rehearsal. It meant nothing to me at all. I had to play a scene with a woman where I'm selling her insurance. I blew it. I lost the plot half way through. I said on stage, I haven't the faintest idea what I'm going to say next. She helped me out and gave me the line. Two seconds later, I couldn't remember the next line. Afterwards, somebody came back and said well done. They didn't see me again. It put me off for about a year. It was one of those experiences that stopped me from wanting to do it anymore. I did a production called "Patriot for Me" with Alan Bates and the character I played was on stage for 40 minutes and he had about six lines. All I had to do was emote. It was at a party. It was a vicious party. It put me back into it. I haven't looked back." Finis Sonja Marie - The White Rose @--'->-- http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/sonja.html Paul Wylie Fan Pages - http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/pwylie/pwylie.html Owner of the Jeff Fahey, Paul Wylie, Anthony S. Head, & Buffy-Beta Lists Pres. of Giles' Appreciation Society Panters - GASP!- Keeper of Coats & Ties Anthony Stewart Head (Giles-BTVS) About What Fans Sent Him in the Mail: "Fair amount of lingerie, yeah, all of which I tried, none of which fitted" - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:45:03 -0800 From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: James Marsters, really a Brit? At 07:29 PM 1/22/98 EST, RbSayre wrote: >no- James is actually from Modesto, CA! The accent isn't real! I don't know >about the fangs, though. I cracked up when I read your "I don't know about the fangs, though" addendum. But I guess at places like Diego's "Sunset Club," you can't always assume that those things come out at bedtime (can we say "dental bonding"). Probably James's do, though. Lisa - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 02:41:32 -0700 From: Kerowyn Subject: BUFFY: symbolism & heartache Wow, I haven't been reading my mail during the reruns, but I need to this week. Gotta have that support people, 'cuz I'm hurting. "Innocence" hit me with all the impact of a Cheezehead rampage (go Broncs!!!) Holy mixed feelings. On one hand, I am grooving on the evil Angel. He truly scares me, and boy do I feel for Willow and the French doors into her bedroom. What a cool character, with all the power and twice the brains of Spike. Sorry, I do like Spike too, but he tends to get impatient and I can't see Angelus, scourge of Europe, losing his head as easily. I am going to enjoy my shivers as this goes on. On the other hand I just feel so damn sorry for Buffy. She has a pretty crappy life to begin with. Just look at her awesome birthday party--cake, hats, and vampires ready to kill her. Xander would insert a good reference to Cordy's topping it off here but I will leave that to him. Okay, so the Buffster enjoys one moment of happiness where she doesn't have to think of saving the world, and look what happens!! Grr, argh! Okay, so I feel for her. And I'd enjoy watching Angel's evilness a lot more if I knew when (or if) it's going to end!!! Think of it people! It could happen! We are resonably sure Joss won't go and kill him off because he's such a popular character. But what if he likes Angel as the villain? What if that's his new role in Buffy's life? What if none of the Romani remember how to fix it when it's broken?????!!!!!????? okay, take a deep breath. Ahhhhh. Where'd my Valium go? The doc warned me about getting into this so much. *hee hee* It's true, there are those in my life who fear for my sanity. It's good to know others share my affliction. I need to get cracking on my Buffy support group. "How to live with chronic and debilitating B.A.D. Tuesday nights at eight in the rectory." That part finished, I am really impressed with the sybolism in these two episodes. The cross Angel gave her being a big one. Another I saw was Xander saving Willow. Cool in itself because it proves he still loves her (as a pal) and would do anything to save her. But when he grabs the cross and shoves it in Angel's face? Anybody else remember when he did that in PG to get Angel to save Buffy? I've always complained about Angel being a wuss. He admits to Buffy in the pilot that he won't fight the other vamps because he's scared. He finally began sticking up for her this season. Okay, so he killed Darla to save her too, but I remember the look of dispair on his face. Kinda makes me think he had mixed feelings. A lot of people have said that good Angel is more shallow and boring than evil Angel. I agree but Joss could do more to perk up Good Angel (maybe we should just call him GA or BA. Angel & Angelus works too.) Tortured characters can be cool when they do more than sit around and brood. Maybe when (and I'm saying that with conviction so it'll come true) he changes back they can have more angstiness. You know, star-crossed lovers, she loves him but she hates him, he's afraid to be near her because he's afraid he'll hurt her but he pines for her? I kinda like that action and it can go in indefinetly. Speaking of Angel and the Buffster, another thing that hit me like a kick in the gut was the foreshadowing. I couldn't really understand the shot in Bad Eggs when they are kissing and it pans to the tombstone reading, "In Loving Memory". Anybody else notice that? The whole story of what he did to Dru has been mentioned too. Somehow that makes it even more heartrending, IMHO. He tells her more than once that she shouldn't trust him, and lookie what happens. One quick thing about Dru--the gypsy girl Angel killed and the slayer ideas. I really, really doubt it. All it shows is that Angel has used the same MO before. And the "Dru is the slayer" is too much coinkidink for me. Spike likes killing slayers but I think Giles might have heard something before this if he (Spike) vamped them. One more Dru note--anybody else blown away by the muscles on her??? Jeez, she's Sarah Connor transformed. Scary. That and the ashy white skin makes her even more vamplike in my mind. There are a few other things that really hit me hard. The idea of Angel just walking in the front door and killing Buffy's mom. The dream sequences too. Angel in the sunlight, turning to dust as she reaches for him, and why Dru? She was in Buffy's house at the beginning of the dream, actually it's what clued me in that it was a dream. Then she's the one who kills Angel, twice. Speaking of, I kind of consider him dead. (Fine, Joss, just go knock off a major character without even a warning at the beginning!! I wuz robbed.) Dru "blowing out the candles". Oooh, and I was rockin' when Buffy slammed Calendar down on the desk!! The debate of her guilt goes on, I'm going to have to watch it again to decide. But let's just think, she tried to get rid of Angel for a year or more, not to mention lying to Buffy and putting her in danger. Though part of me wonders what might have happened if Angel had left. I'm coming to the end of my rant, I promise. But I just wanted to hug Giles the way he stood up for her. Even against his own love interest. Wow. The amazing look on his face when he puts all the pieces together. I have more to say about X and C but I will let it wait for now. Still reeling, you know? Thanks for making it this far! Once again, we thank you for your support. - -- Kerowyn Three o'clock in the morning Duchess of Buffonia It's quiet there's no one around Keeper of Giles' Broadsword Just the bang and the clatter angel@amnix.com As the angel hits the ground -U2 - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:17:05 EST From: LilyRei Subject: Re: BUFFY: BAD Angel! BAD! BAD! No biscuit! SS In a message dated 98-01-22 13:22:30 EST, orpheus@wam.umd.edu writes: << I didn't get the message that women shouldn't have sex, that sex is bad -- just that men use women for sex, and discard them once they get what they want. Buffy wasn't punished for having sex, she was used. >> I disagree with this statement wholeheartedly. If Buffy had gone to bed with Angelus she would have been used. She went to bed with Angel and that was not the case. I'm so glad they put that little flashback scene in there because it showed "who was loving who" so to speak. Angel was nothing if not loving, gentle and tender with her. He said he loved her and I *believe* him. The fact that psycho demon man appeared immediately after is not her fault or his. Neither of them knew all hell would break loose if they really expressed their love. And I have a MAJOR problem with this women get punished for sex stuff. That's a sick message and a destructive one. I don't believe that was the intent here. LilyRei - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:24:26 -0500 From: "Quark's Latinum Lady" Subject: BUFFY: David on AOL Tonight I can't remember if this was mentioned or not (I skip a lot of messages since I get so many...gotta trim down my mailing lists! Haha!), but David Boreanaz will be on a live AOL chat tonight, 10:00pm eastern. Keyword: Live Jennifer (a.k.a. Quark's Latinum Lady) pirateq@ix.netcom.com http://www.walrus.com/~quark/ Member: OASIS (Official Armin Shimerman Information Service); Goddesses of the Internet, Inc.; Bitches & Witches, Inc. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:56:47 EST From: RayneFire Subject: BUFFY: Cruel Inventions Gellar, Phillippe In Cruel By Michael Fleming NEW YORK (Variety) - Sarah Michelle Gellar, star of the WB Network hit Buffy the Vampire Slayer, will star alongside Ryan Phillippe in Cruel Inventions, a modern retelling of Dangerous Liaisonsset in New York City. It will be written and directed by Roger Kumble, and produced by Neal Moritz. The film was set up independently but is expected to be distributed by Columbia Pictures. Phillippe plays the young bartender who comes of age in 54, the upcoming Miramax film about the heyday of Gotham disco Studio 54, in which he co-stars with Mike Myers and Salma Hayek. Cruel Inventions will be Phillippe's second feature with Gellar, after they starred together in the sleeper horror hit I Know What You Did Last Summer, which was produced by Moritz for Mandalay. Gellar also co-starred in Scream 2. The film will begin production in L.A. and New York in March, shortly after Gellar completes her production season on Buffy.She's repped by manager Booh Schut, ICM's JoAnne Colonna and attorney Deborah Klein. Phillippe is managed by Andrea Pett-Joseph and Cynthia Pett-Dante. Reuters/Variety - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:11:35 -0600 From: Mia_McDavid@em.fcnbd.com Subject: BUFFY: The self-destructing curse I, too, have many thoughts in the night . . . What if the self-destruct aspect of the curse was not a feature, but a bug? What if it was the *very best* curse they could put on, but it still had a loophole? What if they preferred the potential future disaster of keeping him alive with an imperfect curse to killing him outright? Foolish, foolish gypsies! Mia I *LOVE* this show! - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:09:04 -0600 From: Mia_McDavid@em.fcnbd.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: my thoughts on the 2 parter Jclive said: >>Now that his soul is gone and the demon has reclaimed the body, think >>about the eternal agony for Angel's soul. He has to live (in heaven or >>wherever you believe souls go) forever watching/knowing that his body >>is tormenting his love. Talk about eternal darnation!! Well, maybe. I like the idea that Angel's soul still haunts our friends and is trying to help Buffy. I expect he will give her more guidance and comfort in her dreams over the coming weeks. It was so *cool* to see him in sunlight! Mia I *LOVE* this show! - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:55:40 -0600 From: Kathryn Johnston Subject: BUFFY: Curses This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------25A6B86BB6D0F828A51A3194 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, all! One problem with curses (at least in fairy tales) is that they always have a catch. For instance, in "Beauty and the Beast," the Beast is trapped in an inhuman body unless someone falls in love with him. Do you think the witch wanted him to have the opportunity to be happy? No, but that's the problem with curses--there always has to be some way (usually extremely unlikely) that could remove it. In that case, the spell was broken if someone fell in love with the Beast. Angelus is shown as being a very powerful vampire. Maybe the gypsies would have preferred to kill the demon outright, but settled for the next best thing--neutralizing the vampire, by returning its body's soul. The demon probably was tormented--he lost control of his body, because that dratted Angel's soul had more power. The gypsies were not trying to torment the dead human Angel, but the undead vampire Angelus. Angelus did not like having his former human inhabitant back for a hundred years, doing good, not drinking blood, and the demon having no say in the matter. Of course, a side effect of returning Angel's soul, is that Angel himself suffers, knowing what his hijacked body has been up to for the past century, even though it was not his fault. We do not know a lot of things still about Buffyverse vampires: 1) Does the human have to chose to drink the blood, or can it be poured down the unwilling victim's throat? If the latter, than Angel really was guiltless of having his body possessed. 2) Vampires seem to be a subtype of demon--since other demons on Buffy had either their own bodies (The Judge, Mollock, "Reptile Boy," and the assassins from "What's My Line") or can grab one body after another like in "Puppet Show." Does an individual vampire demon have its own personality, or can the vampire spirit only build on the brains, body and memory-- as the evil alter ego-- of the human it takes over? IE If a vampire inhabits a brilliant person, will it be a brilliant vampire? Does the host matter to a demon? 3) Where does the former soul of a Buffyverse vampire go after the demon takes over? (For instance, in "Forerver Knight" and the Anne Rice novels, the person has to chose to become a vampire, and the soul then is damned. In the original Bram Stoker's "Dracula," the victim was innocent, and the body corrupted into vampirism--his or her soul was free to go to Heaven. Any other thoughts? Kathryn (a librarian who loves fairy tales) - --------------25A6B86BB6D0F828A51A3194 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <34C7C746.70C84A6D@nwi.calumet.purdue.edu> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:25:10 -0600 From: Kathryn Johnston Reply-To: johnston@nwi.calumet.purdue.edu Organization: Purdue University Calumet--Library X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: buffy@xmission.com Subject: Curses References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, all! One problem with curses (at least in fairy tales) is that they always have a catch. For instance, in "Beauty and the Beast," the Beast is trapped in an inhuman body unless someone falls in love with him. Do you think the witch wanted him to have the opportunity to be happy? No, but that's the problem with curses--there always has to be some way (usually extremely unlikely) that could remove it. In that case, the spell was broken if someone fell in love with the Beast. Angelus is shown as being a very powerful vampire. Maybe the gypsies would have preferred to kill the demon outright, but settled for the next best thing--neutralizing the vampire, by returning its body's soul. The demon probably was tormented--he lost control of his body, because that dratted Angel's soul had more power. The gypsies were not trying to torment the dead human Angel, but the undead vampire Angelus. Angelus did not like having his former human inhabitant back for a hundred years, doing good, not drinking blood, and the demon having no say in the matter. Of course, a side effect of returning Angel's soul, is that Angel himself suffers, knowing what his hijacked body has been up to for the past century, even though it was not his fault. We do not know a lot of things still about Buffyverse vampires: 1) Does the human have to chose to drink the blood, or can it be poured down the unwilling victim's throat? If the latter, than Angel really was guiltless of having his body possessed. 2) Vampires seem to be a subtype of demon--since other demons on Buffy had either their own bodies (The Judge, Mollock, "Reptile Boy," and the assassins from "What's My Line") or can grab one body after another like in "Puppet Show." Does an individual vampire demon have its own personality, or can the vampire spirit only build on the brains, body and memory-- as the evil alter ego-- of the human it takes over? IE If a vampire inhabits a brilliant person, will it be a brilliant vampire? Does the host matter to a demon? 3) Where does the former soul of a Buffyverse vampire go after the demon takes over? (For instance, in "Forerver Knight" and the Anne Rice novels, the person has to chose to become a vampire, and the soul then is damned. In the original Bram Stoker's "Dracula," the victim was innocent, and the body corrupted into vampirism--his or her soul was free to go to Heaven. Any other thoughts? Kathryn (a librarian who loves fairy tales) - --------------25A6B86BB6D0F828A51A3194-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:56:36 -0600 From: Mia_McDavid@em.fcnbd.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Birthday Candle Lisa asked: >>OK, answer me this. Why did Buffy let her >>birthday candle burn down slowly at the end >>instead of making a wish (like for Angel's soul to >>be restored) and then blowing it out? My take on this was that she had a wish, but she was feeling so bruised and disillusioned that she didn't think it was worth making it. So, she just let it burn . . . Mia I *LOVE* this show! - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:00:56 -0600 From: Jennifer Kolbasinski Subject: BUFFY: SPOILER******** *********SPOILER******** So just a thought: If Oz is a werewolf, it kinda makes sense that he was attracted to Willow in the eskimo outfit. The fur....kinda wolfy you know. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:49:30 -0500 From: Schimmel <75211.522@compuserve.com> Subject: BUFFY: Xander & Cordelia Tammy wrote: <> I disagree- It's boring to just have Buffy beating up on vampires all the time. I love the romance between Xander and Cordelia! And now I'm convinced that what I suspected before is true: Cordy is in love with Xander, but doesn't want anyone-esp. him- to know about it because she's aware of his feelings for Buffy! She sounded so jealous in INNOCENCE. Sandra - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:29:41 -0600 From: Mike Gori Subject: Re: BUFFY: Curses Kathryn Johnston wrote: > 1) Does the human have to chose to drink the blood, or can it be > poured down the >unwilling victim's throat? If the latter, than Angel > really was guiltless of having his body >possessed. I get the feeling, from Angel and one of Buffy's old boyfriends, that being turned into a vampire is an either or process. Obviously it's easier if you want to become a vampire. > 2) Vampires seem to be a subtype of demon--since other demons on > Buffy had either >their own bodies or can grab one body after another > like in "Puppet Show." Does an >individual vampire demon have its own > personality, or can the vampire spirit only build >on the brains, body > and memory-- as the evil alter ego-- of the human it takes over? I believe that they take on the personality of the human they "infect." For an example, look at Dru. If you want to take it one step further, look at Louie in "Interview." Before he became a vampire, he was depressed and melancholy. And after, he stayed the same. > 3) Where does the former soul of a Buffyverse vampire go after the > demon takes >over? (For instance, in "Forerver Knight" and the Anne > Rice novels, the person has to >chose to become a vampire, and the > soul then is damned. In the original Bram >Stoker's "Dracula," the > victim was innocent, and the body corrupted into >vampirism--his or > her soul was free to go to Heaven. I would like to think that it is a combination of the two. In Angel's case (and most likely Dru's as well), his soul probably went to Heaven. Where in say Luke's case, or the Master's case, their souls were damned. Just my thoughts, Mike - - ------------------------------ End of buffy-digest V2 #57 ************************** To subscribe to buffy or buffy-digest, send the command subscribe buffy-digest or subscribe buffy to majordomo@xmission.com. 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