From: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com (buffy-digest) To: buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: buffy-digest V2 #134 Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com Sender: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk buffy-digest Wednesday, February 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 134 In this issue: BUFFY: Passion: Crosses & other stuff Re: BUFFY: passion BUFFY: Angel in Giles' House (Passion spoilers) Re: BUFFY: Passion Problem (PP) Re: BUFFY: Hope for Angel (Passion) Re: BUFFY: who dies in passion? BUFFY: Okay, I have got to comment BUFFY: Also BUFFY: Entertainment Weekly news and ratings BUFFY: Changing the Locks: Undead Question Answers Re: BUFFY: Hope for Angel (Passion) BUFFY: David in YM Article Re: BUFFY: Passion Ramblings Re: BUFFY: Viva La Voiceover!!! (was: Ay Caramba!) Re: BUFFY: Passion Problem (PP) Re: BUFFY: Hope for Angel (Passion) BUFFY: The Orb of Thessulah(sp?) Re: BUFFY: Passion Problem (PP) BUFFY: Future Eps- NO SPOILERS IN THIS Re: BUFFY: Passion thoughts BUFFY: My very own Passion Comments BUFFY: Joining the Lynch Mob (Passion Spoilers) BUFFY: Passion BUFFY: Angel's Vocie Over Re: BUFFY: Angel's Vocie Over Re: BUFFY: Joining the Lynch Mob (Passion Spoilers) BUFFY: PETITION to bring back Ms Calender BUFFY: episode lists Re: BUFFY: Joining the Lynch Mob (Passion Spoilers) Re: BUFFY: Viva La Voiceover!!! (was: Ay Caramba!) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:00:33 EST From: Kimmber23@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: Passion: Crosses & other stuff OK just some thoughts I left out of my first post, (as if that was possible!). Hunter D said: What an indignity to compromise one's religious heritage in the name of survival. ;-b But shouldn't Stars of David work just as well as crosses? I found this to be a very interesting point and please don't get offended I'm just analizing a common fact about vampires. Why is it that Vampires are repelled by crosses, a Christain faith symbol and not other religion icons. Could it be that vampires recognize Christ as God? Or do they have simliar reactions to other religions's symbols? *************This is a totally objective insight, please do not be offended! ******************** - -Michael Hickerson- Loved the review and I have always felt since the Innocence ep. that Buffy and Spike would join forces out of jealously and revenge. Glad to see I'm not completely solo on that theory. I also found it hysterical that Xander was offended that other students entered the library. I also found it even more comical that they all left. And I like how after Angel tells Joyce that he and Buffy had sex, they have that Mother & Daughter talk about sex when the *larger* issue is "I'm a slayer/ he's a vampire". Finally, one of my favorite things about BTVS- the lines! Buffy''s to Angel about changing the locks, Spike to Angel about not playing with a full sack (loved it) and then Spike to Dru about not joining the ring untill your tagged. They were awesome. Well, I should be good for now. Kimmber - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:39:20 +0000 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" Subject: Re: BUFFY: passion And it came to pass on 25 Feb 98, that darrin buswell wrote: [snip] > One last thing, I was watching with the closed > caption on and the Angel voice overs at te begining did not match > what the cc was saying. Does anyone know why this happens? Darrin I once read some stuff on the web about closed-captioning. It said that some tv shows captions are prepared from the script, and some from a tape of the show. (Babylon 5, I suspect, uses the latter method, since I often notice things like "Narn transport" becoming "non transport" on the cc.) I'd guess that Joss did some rewriting between the time the ep was captioned and when it was aired Even if Buffy is captioned using a tape, I imagine that changing a voiceover is something that can be done pretty last-minute. Anyone out there more techy-knowledgeable than me? Harper *** Robin Carroll-Mann harper @ idt.net "Mostly Harmless" -- Douglas Adams Denial is a river in Sunnydale - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:26:53 +0000 From: "Amy Sheldon" Subject: BUFFY: Angel in Giles' House (Passion spoilers) I get the digest, so I imagine that this has been answered several times on the list by now, but in case it hasn't been... 1) Angel being invited into Giles' house has never been shown in any episode. Period. Not first season or this season. *HOWEVER* it wasn't necessary to show it. By "Prophecy Girl" (the first season finale), it was obvious that Giles was consulting with Angel on a regular enough basis that he knew Angel's phone number, and could dial it without having to look it up. As someone else pointed out, it makes sense that Angel would have stopped by to drop off a book or information, and that Giles would have invited him in. 2) Yes, Jill, Giles did say he needed to perform the ceremony to protect his house. Has everyone forgotten the scene where he showed up at Buffy's house, and Willow told him that Buffy and her mother were having a little "discussion"? The scene started with Giles taking the book from Willow, and saying he was going to go home and perform the ceremony at his house. 3) Giles would have let Buffy, Willow and Cordelia use the book first. He'd consider it his primary responsibility to see that his Slayer and her friends were protected as quickly as possible. He also wouldn't have been too worried about Jenny - remember, *she's* the one who found the book, and presumably had already used it on her own home. Plus, so far as he knew, Jenny wasn't in any immediate danger. After all, Angel was targeting Buffy's family and friends, and Jenny Calendar didn't fall into either one of those categories. Giles didn't know that Angel was aware that Jenny was about to find out how to restore a soul... Now, can someone give me a good reason why Giles was so adamantly against Buffy telling her mother about being the Slayer? The best I've been able to come up with is that he thinks Joyce wouldn't believe Buffy, and that she would react to Buffy's "delusions" by shipping Buffy off to a clinic. (A legitimate fear, BTW. A teenager in the school where I used to work started going through a typical teen rebellion - mouthing off, getting in fights, staying out late, etc. - and her parents decided it was more than they could handle and shipped her off to a combination clinic/group-home in Arizona.) - ------ Amy Sheldon Member GASP - Giles Appreciation Society Panters Proud Buffyatric & Keeper of The Accent Amy.Sheldon@sff.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:25:07 -0600 From: Mike Ingbritson Subject: Re: BUFFY: Passion Problem (PP) At 7:05 AM -0500 2/25/98, Iocaste@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-25 02:10:05 EST, BLS7877@aol.com writes: > ><< I didn't even blink when it was obvious that Angel was in Giles' Apartment, > assuming he'd been there before. I could be wrong. >Well, my problem with it was that if he'd been there before, wouldn't Giles >have cast that spell to keep him out? I mean, everyone else was. Giles was planning on doing the ritual when he got home. He told Willow that when he stopped at Buffy's house to get the book which they had just finished with. Then when he got home he discovered that Jenny was already there, although not quite in the way he thought. :-( So I wonder if Giles will ever get around to doing his dis-invitation spell or if it will slip his mind for awhile. Peace, Mike It is my firm belief that it is a mistake to hold firm beliefs. -Principia Discordia mingbrit@rconnect.com http://homepage.rconnect.com/mingbrit - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:40:40 -0600 From: Mike Ingbritson Subject: Re: BUFFY: Hope for Angel (Passion) This post contains SPECULATION for future episodes based on the events of Passion. At 9:18 AM -0500 2/25/98, Smellcore@aol.com wrote: >There is still hope for Angel yet. The late Ms. Calendar left a rather >significant "paper trail": > >1. The disk >2. At the store the man said orbs as in plural >3. She mentioned to Giles that she was working on something, implied that it >was for Buffy, and that she would explain it to him later. Maybe when Giles >stops grieving so much he'll put a couple of the pieces together. >4. She paid for the orb with a credit card. I don't know what they do about >credit slips of a dead person but...it is significant none the less. Agreed. I think that the disk will be found. Giles will start to wonder what Jenny was up to and start investigating. Willow is a bright young lady. She will eventually find the disk and pop it into the computer to see what it is. Although we didn't see the fate of the guy in the occult shop, I suspect that he is still alive. As someone else said, some of his best customers are probably vampires. :-) So I imagine the orbs are still around as well. The question now is, does even the good Angel want to get his soul back after what he has done? Remember, it is a curse. The good Angel would probably rather have Angelus die than have to face Buffy and the Slayerettes again knowing what he has done to them. And even though having a good vampire on your side can be beneficial, will any of them ever completely trust Angel again? I'm sure it will be a long time before Buffy and Giles can forgive him. Peace, Mike It is my firm belief that it is a mistake to hold firm beliefs. -Principia Discordia mingbrit@rconnect.com http://homepage.rconnect.com/mingbrit - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:20:10 -0600 From: Mike Ingbritson Subject: Re: BUFFY: who dies in passion? At 10:32 PM -0800 2/24/98, tron302@ix.netcom.com wrote: >Oh, well. By "reading" all the mail I gather it was Ms. C, the gypsy sent to >"assure" her "family" that the tormenter was being tormented. I guess Ang >is done >brooding! But I do have one problem with Ang's first choice. [snip] > >Enough said, I missed "Passion", my VCR recorded the wrong station >(programming >error). I guess I was destined to miss what appears to be one of the >better eps. I don't mean to be rude, but you should probably watch the episode before you start complaining about Angel's choices. ;-) He killed Jenny because she was just about to finish translating the ritual which would allow her to restore his soul. He started the episode by teasing Buffy and Willow and seemed to be concentrating on them as well as Buffy's mom. But when Dru learned that Jenny was working on a way to restore Angel's soul, Angel changed his plans and went after her instead. I know how frustrating it is to miss a big episode like this and have to try and figure out what's going on from second-hand information. If you happen to live in Minnesota, the episode will be airing Friday night at 7:00 due to last night's Timberwolves game. Otherwise I can't tell you when it will be on again. Peace, Mike It is my firm belief that it is a mistake to hold firm beliefs. -Principia Discordia mingbrit@rconnect.com http://homepage.rconnect.com/mingbrit - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:37:11 -0600 From: Jennifer Kolbasinski Subject: BUFFY: Okay, I have got to comment I am usually pretty quiet, kinda lurky, but I have to say something about all the hair comments. Yes, Buffy's hair looks pretty tacky, but....It fits with her life right now. She's depressed, scared, lonely, heartbroken, and betrayed. Would YOU want to get up in the morning and mess with YOUR do after going through what she's been going through? Hair and makeup are usually used to relay the feelings of a character. I think her dark, hollow eyes and flat hair is just a outward show of her inward trauma. Just had to add. Jennifer.Kolbasinski@tasb.org Austin, Texas - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:39:50 -0600 From: Jennifer Kolbasinski Subject: BUFFY: Also Passion doesn't equal love. You can hate, envy, fear, lust, and crave passionately but you dont' have to love to feel those feelings. Jennifer.Kolbasinski@tasb.org Austin, Texas - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:42:59 EST From: RayneFire@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: Entertainment Weekly news and ratings Got this from the Entertainment Weekly Newsletter: "The Grammys, an Oscar update, a new Web guide, and an upcoming feature about "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" are the top items this week on Entertainment Weekly Online (www.ew.com): Coming This Weekend: *From The Magazine -- How "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Dawson's Creek" are slaying the competition on The WB Network." I assume this means they're putting something up on their web page about Buffy this weekend....and hopefully there will be a feature article in next weeks mag! (I'm prepared to beg for a Buffy cover...with most of the cast on it!) Btw, the national ratings for The Dark Age repeat last week was 3.5. Overnights for Passion were 6.0 (I think BBB was a 6.2 and that translated into a 4.5 national) - -Rayne Keeper of Willow's Animal Slippers Keeper of Buffy's Stuffed Pig, Mr. Gordo Keeper of Spike's Trench Coat - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:52:33 -0800 From: Lisa Rose Subject: BUFFY: Changing the Locks: Undead Question Answers Minor spoiler for Passion... Was interesting to see Joss (or Ty I suppose) directly answer several of our Undead Questions about invitations, especially Season One #111 & #63 and Season Two #49. (The Undead Questions are at: http://www.wco.com/~cybrpaws/undeadq.html). There seems to be a trend toward answering some of the classic undead questions lately (Willow's Jewishness, and several others I'm forgetting). Would be nice to think that TPTB are reading the Undead Question list, but it might be a coincidence or in response to debates on the Posting Board. Either way, it's interesting.... Lisa - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:02:22 -0500 From: "Charlotte Veazie" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Hope for Angel (Passion) mingbrit@rconnect.com >>>> Although we didn't see the fate of the guy in the occult shop, I suspect that he is still alive. As someone else said, some of his best customers are probably vampires. :-) So I imagine the orbs are still around as well. <<<< The orbs were described as being genuine gypsy work, or something, add this to the fact that the Rom felt when Angel was getting happy and sent someone to check up on Janna, seems to me this could be repeated and that person could have or procure an orb... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:12:43 EST From: Smellcore@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: David in YM Article Everyone should know by now that David is in the March YM so I thought I'd be a nice little lister and transcribe the article for y'all. It reads: David Boreanaz born May 16 in Buffalo, NY David Boreanaz plays the hot-as-hellmouth Angel on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But he wouldn't have gotten there without his first big break--playing Kelly Bundy's biker bf on Married...with Children. And the rest is just a whole lot of lame dating questions for the teeny bopper set. David's responses are kind of cute but all in all it's just a short blurb about the show and one not-so-flattering picture. This was probably a big waste of time but for those of you that dig this sort of thing.... Kelly (smellcore@aol.com) Keeper of my own dignity and unwillingness to get involved in the whole keeper thing. "It breaks my heart it makes me sad to think of all the times we had. You made me laugh and you make me cry and now all I can do is sigh and wonder why...." MxPx - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:23:05 -0600 From: Mike Ingbritson Subject: Re: BUFFY: Passion Ramblings At 9:16 AM -0800 2/25/98, Mz. Gwyn wrote: >I'm also getting >really tired of Spike's depression or unworthiness. I loved him the >second he drove over the Sunnydale sign in School Hard, I want the old >Spike back, and quick. I'm also going over to the side that believes >that Spike will somehow be vital in Angel's transformation again, but I >hope that doesn't happening until the middle of next season. I definitely agree that we need the old Spike back. Although I think if he was fully recovered he would simply try to take on Angel himself. I'm not sure who wolud win, but it would be a fun fight to watch. However, with Spike being unable to fight back directly, that makes it more likely that he will be willing to seek outside help. Remember his line in "Passion" about almost preferring the old "slayer-whipped Angel"? Can you say foreshadowing? ;-) However, I think the big confrontation will have to happen at the end of this season. We have now seen proof of how evil Angelus is, and we would expect him to keep coming after Buffy's friends. And unless everyone stays locked in their houses from dusk until dawn, Angelus shouldn't really have much trouble picking them off. But TPTB can't let many more major characters get killed off, and they also can't keep coming up with excuses to keep Angelus away from everyone. So the showdown has to happen soon, IMO. Peace, Mike It is my firm belief that it is a mistake to hold firm beliefs. -Principia Discordia mingbrit@rconnect.com http://homepage.rconnect.com/mingbrit - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:14:46 -0800 From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: Viva La Voiceover!!! (was: Ay Caramba!) At 10:15 PM 2/24/98 -0500, Jesse Jou wrote: >2) One of the biggest mistakes in this episode was the use of the >voiceover throughout it. There are number of reasons for this: voiceovers >like this invariably contain the sort of inane moralizing meant to sound >deep but is really just banal Actually brutha JJ, I'm going to step away from my recent "innocuous" position and say that I was amused by the voiceovers. Not for their Jack Handy "Deep Thoughts" pseudo-profundity, but for the irony of how they were presented. They were spoken sincerely, like (as you suggested) the inside of a Hallmark card. There were no references to anger, cruelty, vengeance. It was almost as though Angel were saying them, not Angelus. So against the backdrop of these sappy maxims of passion (normally associated with drippy love), we see wicked Angelus sneaking around, sadistically killing and tormenting people. Ahhhh, passion.... In retrospect, it was really a rather grand juxtaposition by Jossy. Remember when we were appalled by the sappy "Friends" music at the end of WSWB, until we began to suspect that it was put there just to set up the sudden cut to the grimness of the Annoying One back in the warehouse saying "I HATE that girl!"? Your sistah in sickness, Lisabeth - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:28:46 -0500 (EST) From: Susan Cho Yuk Subject: Re: BUFFY: Passion Problem (PP) > In a message dated 98-02-25 02:10:05 EST, BLS7877@aol.com writes: > > Well, my problem with it was that if he'd been there before, wouldn't Giles > have cast that spell to keep him out? I mean, everyone else was. Well, I'm surprised that it took this long for the gang to figure out that Angel would come after Buffy's friends and family. We've heard that he's done it before [like with Dru]. After Angel turned back to his original self, my first question was "When does Buffy get her mom out of town?" Giles probably hadn't even considered himself as a target. After all, Jenny's death didn't just affect him. Angel did go to see Buffy's reaction. I didn't see him sticking around to see Giles'. Off the subject, but how many new episodes are left? Susan - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:29:25 EST From: Smellcore@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Hope for Angel (Passion) Everyone is implying that in order for Angel to ge his soul back he would have to get cursed again. Also in an earlier post someone said that what Jenny was working on was a new curse. I, of course, have a different opinion. Who is to say that the curse and the Ritual for Restoration are one in the same? Sure the Gypsies had reasons for wanting Angel to suffer so they put a spin on the Ritual (everlasting suffering). Jenny was working on the actual ritual and I have to believe that she would want to give him his soul back no strings attached. Again I have to say that no matter what everyone else on the list is saying the real Angel has no control over tha actions of the demon controlling him. Think about it like this: we have all had not so great thoughts about what we would want to do to someone(the guy who cut you off on the way home from school, the kid that picked on your new shoes, whatever) but we have a conscience that prevents us (well most of us) from acting on those impulses. Angel is operating without a conscience right now. Granted his actions are reprehensible but he is not the one working the switches in his mind. I think that it will take time but eventually the old angel will be back and eventually when the scars have healed a bit the ang will forgive. Well except for Xander. I think they will all just be happy to have gotten rid of evil Angel without having to kill the man he once was. Sorry this is so long but I had a lot I wanted to vent. Kelly(smellcore@aol.com) Keeper of my own dignity and unwillingness to get involved in all this silly keeper stuff. "Every finger in the room is pointing at me. I wanna spit in their faces but then I get afraid of what that could bring." Tori Amos - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:33:48 EST From: Smellcore@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: The Orb of Thessulah(sp?) The shopkeep had more than one orb. He said so himself. He was seeling them as new age paper weights. Kelly(smellcore@aol.com) Keeper of my own dignity and unwillingness to get involved in this silly keeper stuff. "Every finger in the room is pointing at me. I wanna spit in their faces but then I get afraid of what that could bring." Tori Amos - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:35:52 EST From: TknoPagan@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Passion Problem (PP) In a message dated 2/24/98 6:40:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, joloam@ici.net writes: << How did Angel get into Giles's apartment? I mean, had he ever been there before (Giles letting him in) >> I thought about that all night. I have enver seen him enter his place before. TknoPagan@aol.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:42:52 PST From: "noname 7" Subject: BUFFY: Future Eps- NO SPOILERS IN THIS I was wondering, what do you think will happen w/ hose spoilers that were posted ealier, the ones for the last 2 episodes? Cause Passions totally makes them different. Kelly (o o) - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-oOOo-(_)-oOOo-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -"My world is all askew" Willow RB - -"You were my Yoda Man!" Spike SH - -Keeper of alot of things! - - "Showgirls, absolutely frightening!" Randy, Scream2 - - "My mom & dad are gonna be so mad at me!" Stu, Scream - - http://members.tripod.com/~noname7/index.html-My Homepage - -http://members.tripod.com/~noname7/BtVS.html-My Buffy Page ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:46:48 -0800 From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: Passion thoughts At 09:02 PM 2/24/98 -0600, Jill Kirby wrote: >The editing from when Giles sees Jenny dead on the bed, to when the camera >pulls back and the cops are there, is one of the finest bits of >directing/editing I've seen yet on this show, or any show. Very effective >without being manipulative or obvious. Reminded me a bit of the clever time-dissolve in the movie "Avalon" where the central character sits down on a couch in the living room in the dark. And when we see finally him get up, it's ten years later (though he hasn't really processed all that change yet). Lisa - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:00:29 EST From: TknoPagan@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: My very own Passion Comments By far I think that this was one of the best episodes ever. I have started to like Jenny Calendar. Her character was great. She was the only one that got to Giles. Then we see her tonight express her feelings to him. I thought that was such a great scene between the two. I was so happy when she deciphered the spell. Then as soon as Angel came in to the picture I worried. I could have dealt with a bit to the neck or maybe a good chase, but the neck snapping was sort of just...blunt. I heard a rumor that the character who died would return 4 months later on the show. That is something I would like to see but they probably were not true. I felt so sad when Giles discovered her in his bed lying dead. How do you think the will interact after he is brought back to good? This should be a great concept to bas an episode on. Abd how about Willow's fish? That scene was priceless. We did get to see another side of Willow as she learned of Jenny's death. It was pretty bad. On a final note, I jumoed up and down with disappointment when Willow knocked over the diskette. I was so mad. Lets hope Willow moves around some furniture and finds it. Oh and one more thing, I was totally unsuspecting Buffy's attitude when she approached Jenny at school. That was plain harsh and imagine how she feels about it now. Jason Martinez | TknoPagan@aol.com | Keeper of Buffy's Small Wooden Stake|Keeper of Willow's Computer | Keeper of Joyce's Sports Utility Vehicle|Keeper of Spike's Boots | Keeper of Kendra's Stake | Keeper of Kendra'sSlayerManual | "I didn't know I was going to fall in love with you." Jenny Calendar (RIP), Passion - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:03:39 -0800 From: Lisa Rose Subject: BUFFY: Joining the Lynch Mob (Passion Spoilers) Passion Spoilers.... Unless the new curse includes a "non-revocable" clause, then I must join the growing stake-wielding lynch mob of former Angel lovers screaming "Kill that male offspring of a female canine!!!" He's just too dangerous for the gang to suffer him to live, given such potential inside him. And his "Angel" romantic sensibilities translate too effectively into "Angelus" psychological torture techniques. Sitting here, listening to Sophie Zelmani's "I'll Remember You," thinking of Jenny, clutching a box of Kleenexes, and reflecting on the cruel irony of that song in this context, Lisa - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:22:37 -0500 From: Python! Subject: BUFFY: Passion I personally think that Buffy realizeses that Angelus and Angel are different....because of the fact that in the end she was like Angel is gone and theres nothing to help him(or something like that). But i gotta say that I hated the disk dropping inbetween the desks. I wanted to curse Willow. Now i have to wonder if they will ever find it.....it made me so sad that Buffy has given up hope on finding a cure for Angelus to bring back Angel. Jenny - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:42:41 EST From: Buffy716@aol.com Subject: BUFFY: Angel's Vocie Over Was anyone else thinking at some times during the vocie over that it was Angel's soul speaking??? I don't know. It was either that or Angelues really loves Buffy in a sick sorta way. Buffy716 - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:08:49 EST From: TheBigG379@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Angel's Vocie Over it was angels soul speaking - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:15:13 -0500 (EST) From: JRoseHale@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Joining the Lynch Mob (Passion Spoilers) Lisa Rose wrote: "Unless the new curse includes a "non-revocable" clause, then I must join the growing stake-wielding lynch mob of former Angel lovers screaming "Kill that male offspring of a female canine!!!"" No, Lisa, no! Remember the good times! The coffee dates! The long, slow walks through the cemetery! That great kiss at the end of "Halloween"! Remember the good times! Our beloved Angel is in there somewhere! I for one still carry the flag of the good, angst-ridden Angel! (Unless he hurts Oz--then I'll stake the bugger myself!!!) Jennifer Hale jrosehale@aol.com Austin, Texas - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:27:08 -0800 From: "Sai Wong (Exchange)" Subject: BUFFY: PETITION to bring back Ms Calender Hi, I just started a petition to bring back Ms Calender on the 'Threaded Posting Board'. http://www.buffyslayer.com/cgi-bin/mboard/buffy/list.cgi If you would like to join the petition please reply to my petition thread. Hopefully we can let Joss know how much we like Jenny and get him to write her back into the series Sai - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:45:04 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Crook Subject: BUFFY: episode lists 1: I've noticed that a lot of people talk about upcoming episodes (up to several months in advance). How do you find out about all of these??? I know tvguide.com gives a listing for the next few weeks, but what about after that? 2: It's gone around that David is in Aspen Extreme. I've gone through the credits and don't see his name listed. Has anyone actually seen where he is in it or is this just a rumor (and an incorrect listing on imdb.com)? Jen _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:43:29 -0800 From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: Joining the Lynch Mob (Passion Spoilers) At 04:15 PM 2/25/98 -0500, JRoseHale@aol.com wrote: >No, Lisa, no! Remember the good times! The coffee dates! The long, slow walks >through the cemetery! That great kiss at the end of "Halloween"! Remember the >good times! Our beloved Angel is in there somewhere! I for one still carry >the flag of the good, angst-ridden Angel! A heartfelt argument. But it may be too late for me. I feel my compassionate soul slipping away, replaced only by an angry vengeful hatred of Angel. The self-righteous siren call of the "stake Angel!" mob mentality woos and beguiles me. I feel myself yielding. Where is my flaming torch and razor-sharp stake?! I must join the crowd of torchbearers that ascends to confront Angelus in his mountain castle, high above the plains of Sunnydale. Kill the monster, kill him!!! Blood must answer for blood! Remember the Calendar! Lisa - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:54:46 -0800 From: Aliesha Wallach Subject: Re: BUFFY: Viva La Voiceover!!! (was: Ay Caramba!) I, too, generally find voiceovers to be extremely cheesy and annoying, but I didn't have all that much of a problem with this one. Shall I join the fray? Ah, what the heck. :) Lisa Rose wrote: > So against the > backdrop of these sappy maxims of passion (normally > associated with drippy love), we see wicked Angelus > sneaking around, sadistically killing and tormenting I think this was the kind of juxtaposition they were going for on this, and maybe a hint of the idea of him loving her even while he hates her, something that comes up again in her talk with Willow about how he's always thinking of her, and the stalker thing that comes up later. You mentioned in a different post how effectively Angel's romantic sensibilities translate into Angelus's psychological attacks, and I think that's just what they were trying to emphasize with the voiceovers. It comes out more in the heart he gave Dru on Valentine's Day, and it comes out best in the setup in Giles' apartment. He's still very much the romantic - in a sick, twisted, psychotic, stalker-vampire kind of way. It makes him very disturbing. I also like the parallels it brought out, which were again brought out in the dialogue, to the real-life danger of stalkers. One of the great things about this show is the metaphor - for every supernatural danger Buffy faces, there's almost always a real-life danger that can't be so easily destroyed. There's something very frightening about that. As someone on another list pointed out, the voiceovers also served to show how calculating Angel is about the whole thing, how much thought he's putting into playing Buffy along, how he's sitting and pondering and scheming and dreaming up ways to make her passions play into his, and ways to make her suffer because he loves her and he hates her and he just plain feels like it. Yikes! The more I think about it, the more the whole thing just gives me the chills. Also, the last reason I can see to defend the voiceovers in this ep would be the spectacular setup for the ending. It's Buffy's voiceover that gives the ending it's weight, her final acceptance of how she'll never get him back even as the key to getting him back falls in slo-mo to the floor. Beautiful. Personally, I was fully expecting the standard Willow-picks-up-the-disk-and-wonders-what's-on-it ending, maybe with her putting it into her backpack until she's recovered enough from Ms. Calendar's death to be able to look upon her final project or something. But this, this was good. Of course, somebody's going to find it, it's only a matter of time, but still... oh, yeah. Perfect ending for a Top-10 episode. By the way, the guy who came into the library looking for an actual book, was that the Amazing Jonathan? -Aliesha GASP! - Keeper of the Hot Plate; Keeper of Buffy's Bad Lemonade; Keeper of Willow's Robot Part Kleptomania; Guardian of Ethan's intimate, detailed knowledge about the horrible, disturbing, traumatic past of a certain sexy British librarian we all know and love (even though he's done something horrible, disturbing and traumatic), hopeful Keeper of Jonathan's Amazing Rationalization Skills - - ------------------------------ End of buffy-digest V2 #134 *************************** To subscribe to buffy or buffy-digest, send the command subscribe buffy-digest or subscribe buffy to majordomo@xmission.com. You will need to go through a confirmation process, and the listowners have to manually approve your subscription request, so it may take some time. 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