From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #1118 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Saturday, February 10 2001 Volume 02 : Number 1118 In this issue: [none] [none] [CANSLIM] Unsubscribe [none] [CANSLIM] Leaders List [CANSLIM] DGO List - Part One Re: [CANSLIM] SKX Re: [CANSLIM] SKX [CANSLIM] DGO List - Part Two Re: [CANSLIM] SKX Re: [CANSLIM] spch ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:51:06 -0700 From: jeff.salisbury@xmission.com Subject: [none] (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010210144552.0079e6d0@pop3.covad.net> X-Sender: esetser@pop3.covad.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:45:52 -0700 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com From: esetser Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Composite rank ramblings/Leaders List In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20010209071127.009579b0@mail.spiritone.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20010208201904.0079b880@pop3.covad.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010208090417.00be1678@mail.spiritone.com> <3.0.6.32.20010208074509.0079d680@pop3.covad.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010208050953.00be4b18@mail.spiritone.com> <3.0.6.32.20010208035448.0079e870@pop3.covad.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have quite a few stocks on my list that trade over 500K shares a day. Here are the first 10 based on Alphabet: ANF, ADVP, ABK, ACF, APOL, ADSK, BBT, BKU, CPN, CAH. In this very small sample, I found 10 stocks with ADV over 500K out of the first 25 stocks on the list, about 40%. These stocks all have EPS and RPS rank of 80 or best, and group RS of 76 or better. They also scored in the top 1/2 or so of all the stocks that met this criteria based on a formula that combined EPS, RPS, SMR, A/D, and Sponsorship rank. I should note that I removed all stocks that trade less than $500K a day from the list before these numbers of stocks. Assuming a $10 share price, this would be stocks trading less than 50K shares per day. At 07:12 AM 2/9/01 -0800, you wrote: >Well then they should disassociate themselves from CANSLIM. Have you ever >met a CANSLIM candidate that traded more than, say, 500k shares? I don't >recall any off the top of my head... > > >At 08:19 PM 2/8/01 -0700, you wrote: >>They used 300K shares ADV in Wed Investor's Corner, "The latter criteria >>helps limit your choices to stocks that institutional investors - the ones >>with the buying power to move stock prices - might be intersted in." >> >>At 09:05 AM 2/8/01 -0800, you wrote: >> >IBD suggests 300k shares ADV or $300k price x volume? >> > >> >At 07:45 AM 2/8/2001 -0700, you wrote: >> >>That's right. I use this number to make sure I don't buy a stock that is >> >>so lightly traded that I might not be able to sell it easily. This number >> >>is an absolute minimum for me. I basically looked at the position size I'm >> >>buying right now and multiplied by a factor so that I wouldn't be a big >> >>driver. This limit does allow me to consider some pretty small cap stocks. >> >> I was using 30,000 shares, but there is such a disparity in share >> price, I >> >>changed to average trading volume in $. I think IBD discussed 300,000 >> >>shares as a minimum the other day, so I'm quite a bit below that level, at >> >>least for my watch list. I own at least one of these small ones now >> >>(ASHW), and I just sold out of another (LMRK) that I broke even on. >> >> >> >>I am NOT saying this is a good level for everyone, it's just the rule I use >> >>to generate my list! >> > >> > >> > >> >- >> > >> > >> > >> >>- > >Tim Fisher >tim@OreRockOn.com >Ore-Rock-On and Pacific Fishery Biologists Web Pages >http://OreRockOn.com/ > > >- > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:52:02 -0700 From: jeff.salisbury@xmission.com Subject: [none] (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010210150016.0079f880@pop3.covad.net> X-Sender: esetser@pop3.covad.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:00:16 -0700 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com From: esetser Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] SKX In-Reply-To: References: <001501c0938a$664bfdc0$6b0da0d8@rasspmmgdw95> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I just discussed this I think. Trailing stop means you move the stop up as the stock moves up, but never decrease the stop. For instance, I have been trying out 50% of my gain (once the stock has moved up 30% or more.) You could use 15% below the price, and you can use intra-day highs or closing numbers. You could update the stop hourly, daily, weekly, whatever. The idea is you are trying to lock in some portion of your hard-earned gains. At 01:11 PM 2/10/01 -0500, you wrote: >What is the difference between a trailing stop and a stop loss? I don't >think I have access to a trailing stop at Fidelity online. > >Ann Hollingworth >Amherst, Massachusetts > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Michael Doroshenko >Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 12:54 PM >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SKX > > >Hi Tom and esetser: >Thanks for your advice and suggestions. > >I took the advice of one other member of this group and set a stop loss at >24.50. This took me out of the stock at the close of the day. I am going to >continue to watch this stock next week for a new entry. I perceive that we >might have continued downtrend over the next couple of days by the way the >stock was acting yesterday. When I determine that there is some kind of >support in the stock (have to be careful here), then I will determine the >appropriate entry back into it. > >I will study the stock action during the next couple of days by its price >range of that day and follow up with confirmation of where the stock ends in >that range and check BigCharts daily performance of the stock to determine a >point of entry. > >I will also use more services of my broker (Schwab). You suggest that I >should use a trailing stop on the stock. I think I would be more comfortable >to use the stop loss order to help me preserve more capital against these >types of bloodbaths. Then if I feel confident and the stock is acting the >way it is, I can cancel the stop loss and set a new one where I am >comfortable with. > >So the lesson learned by me is to use the services that are available until >I get used to trading in the market and help me preserve more capital and >keep those gains. It does not justify using mental stops like I did in this >trade. It is to use the mechanics of the trading system to help me through >this. If the service is offered, why not use it to my advantage? Thanks. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Worley" >To: >Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 9:24 AM >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SKX > > >> Hi Michael, >> >> Welcome to the group, and to investing. This is a good place to >> learn, especially about CANSLIM. >> >> This stock made such a steep move, and in less than favorable >> market conditions, that I would have maintained a trailing stop >> on it of no more than 15%. Because of the tightness of the daily >> trading range, I likely would have tightened that up even more. >> At this point, you have little choice but to wait and see how >> this stock opens on Monday. >> >> Probably the most important rule and lesson to learn about >> investing, no matter what system or device or strategy you >> employ, is preservation of capital. >> >> The second most important lesson to learn is how and when to take >> profits, especially when you are new to it and still learning >> (actually, even the old timers like me are learning still, this >> "M" is unlike anything I can recall). Wm O'Neil encourages >> newcomers to CANSLIM to take profits at an arbitrary gain of 20%. >> This not only preserves your capital, it gives you a buffer for >> those stocks where you make a mistake in choice or timing, or the >> stock or "M" simply fools you (or a war breaks out somewhere, or >> the Feds hike when the market expected a cut, or a major >> wirehouse downgrades a stock you own, etc etc etc). It is >> perfectly ok to sell for a 20% profit, then watch the stock keep >> right on going to where you would have been up 50%. Doesn't >> necessarily feel good, but it's still ok. >> >> That's one reason why I would not simply sell when I am up 20%, >> but rather would use a trailing stop. If it keeps going higher, >> I adjust the stop higher (but never, ever downward). Doesn't >> matter to me if I have to adjust the stop every day for weeks. >> >> Good luck, >> >> Tom Worley >> stkguru@netside.net >> ICQ # 5568838 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Michael Doroshenko >> To: CANSLIM >> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:08 PM >> Subject: [CANSLIM] SKX >> >> >> Hi All: >> I am new to investing with a brokerage account in the market. >> >> I bought in on Skechers in January at 22 1/16. Skechers rode all >> the way up >> to 30 as of yesterday. >> >> Today, the bubble burst on Skechers because of Sidoti lowered its >> rating >> from buy to neutral. They cited valuation concerns of the >> company. Skechers >> is down 5.00 at 25.00. >> >> Do I bail out with a small gain or do I ride this out due to >> rating fears >> and let the weak take their profits yet I still remain strong >> willed to keep >> this due to company fundamentals. I do believe in the company >> fundamentals. >> >> What has others done with this scenario? >> >> >> >> - >> >> >> >> - >> >> > > > >- > > >- > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:06:13 -0800 From: "Tim Brick" Subject: [CANSLIM] Unsubscribe Your digest function is not working, and I am getting all the messages on the Canlim list separately. Please unsubscribe me (tbrick@email.com) if your digest feature no longer works. TB - -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Tom Worley Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 7:09 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] spch The basic CS elements are fine, the problem is the chart, and a few technicals. What I see on the chart is a high tight flag, and while I am hardly an expert on HTF patterns (there are several much better in this group), it has fallen steadily for the past three days from a new high of 11.375 on Tuesday to 9.5625 on Friday, and on volume. To me, it appears the spike that created the HTF is failing. I also note on Friday it closed at the low of the day, so Monday could gap down. Friday's volume was down slightly from prior days, so the quick daytraders may have mostly exited already. I also note that management owns 74% of the company. While that doesn't bother me (I like them having something at risk along with me), it does add to the overall risk. If they voted Monday to take the company private at $5.00 per share, there is little the public investors could do about it. Aside from the HTF pattern, the present price, despite the drop last week, is still way too extended over any base. It appears to have formed a very deep cup, with an attempt at a handle around 8. If I were interested, I might wait and see if it pulls back that far, and try to buy it there and wait for another spike. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net ICQ # 5568838 - ----- Original Message ----- From: esetser To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] spch Yes, pretty much I agree. Pretty good numbers, nice breakout, but really small. I don't buy stocks where my purchase would be 50% of the daily volume!! Tom, you are our resident small cap guy, what do you think? At 02:59 PM 2/9/01 EST, you wrote: >SPCH, see what you think, what is a good entry point if any at all. Might be >too thinly of a traded stock. Has good numbers, break out on good volume, but >just too thin. > > >- > > > - - - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:52:43 -0700 From: jeff.salisbury@xmission.com Subject: [none] (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010210150339.007a01e0@pop3.covad.net> X-Sender: esetser@pop3.covad.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:03:39 -0700 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com From: esetser Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SKX In-Reply-To: <004501c0938d$cf2a46a0$6b0da0d8@rasspmmgdw95> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I would be careful with 8%. Even WON notes that strong stocks can correct 15% or more during long advances. Remember, the CANSLIM 8% is only for the purchase price, and you are not supposed to use an 8% trailing stop on the way up. If anything, WON is looking at 15% or more (since he says never to let a stock that has gained 15% go below your purchase price). Another thing to consider in using Moving Averages. I have looked at setting trailing stops at the 13 day - 3% on some quick movers, and just below the 50 day MA on slower movers. You can get these number at various sites, and they are often show on graphs. I use the graphs and numbers at Clearstation.com. At 12:18 PM 2/10/01 -0600, you wrote: >Hi Ann: >I think what was referred to as a trailing stop is the price you would >perceive of taking you out of a stock whether it be a mental stop or a hard >stop (stop loss). When the price of a stock goes up, you trail your stop >price according to the price and what is recommended to be 8% below the >current price. > >Example: >SKX was at 30.00 on Thursday. When you set your stop loss at 8% below that >price, you would set a mental or hard stop loss at 27.60. > >If I would have used my brokerage service of a stop loss order after >Thursday's market, I would have ordered a stop loss at 27.60. This would >have been executed on Friday's bloodbath action. I could have preserved a >larger gain. But being I had a mental stop (you can't preserve capital this >way) I lost more capital gains. Rather than taking me out at 27.60 with a >mental stop, I was taken out at 24.50 on a hard stop. You can figure the >math in what I lost by not preserving my capital gains. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ann Hollingworth" >To: >Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 12:11 PM >Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] SKX > > >> What is the difference between a trailing stop and a stop loss? I don't >> think I have access to a trailing stop at Fidelity online. >> >> Ann Hollingworth >> Amherst, Massachusetts >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com >> [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Michael Doroshenko >> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 12:54 PM >> To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SKX >> >> >> Hi Tom and esetser: >> Thanks for your advice and suggestions. >> >> I took the advice of one other member of this group and set a stop loss at >> 24.50. This took me out of the stock at the close of the day. I am going >to >> continue to watch this stock next week for a new entry. I perceive that we >> might have continued downtrend over the next couple of days by the way the >> stock was acting yesterday. When I determine that there is some kind of >> support in the stock (have to be careful here), then I will determine the >> appropriate entry back into it. >> >> I will study the stock action during the next couple of days by its price >> range of that day and follow up with confirmation of where the stock ends >in >> that range and check BigCharts daily performance of the stock to determine >a >> point of entry. >> >> I will also use more services of my broker (Schwab). You suggest that I >> should use a trailing stop on the stock. I think I would be more >comfortable >> to use the stop loss order to help me preserve more capital against these >> types of bloodbaths. Then if I feel confident and the stock is acting the >> way it is, I can cancel the stop loss and set a new one where I am >> comfortable with. >> >> So the lesson learned by me is to use the services that are available >until >> I get used to trading in the market and help me preserve more capital and >> keep those gains. It does not justify using mental stops like I did in >this >> trade. It is to use the mechanics of the trading system to help me through >> this. If the service is offered, why not use it to my advantage? Thanks. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Worley" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 9:24 AM >> Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SKX >> >> >> > Hi Michael, >> > >> > Welcome to the group, and to investing. This is a good place to >> > learn, especially about CANSLIM. >> > >> > This stock made such a steep move, and in less than favorable >> > market conditions, that I would have maintained a trailing stop >> > on it of no more than 15%. Because of the tightness of the daily >> > trading range, I likely would have tightened that up even more. >> > At this point, you have little choice but to wait and see how >> > this stock opens on Monday. >> > >> > Probably the most important rule and lesson to learn about >> > investing, no matter what system or device or strategy you >> > employ, is preservation of capital. >> > >> > The second most important lesson to learn is how and when to take >> > profits, especially when you are new to it and still learning >> > (actually, even the old timers like me are learning still, this >> > "M" is unlike anything I can recall). Wm O'Neil encourages >> > newcomers to CANSLIM to take profits at an arbitrary gain of 20%. >> > This not only preserves your capital, it gives you a buffer for >> > those stocks where you make a mistake in choice or timing, or the >> > stock or "M" simply fools you (or a war breaks out somewhere, or >> > the Feds hike when the market expected a cut, or a major >> > wirehouse downgrades a stock you own, etc etc etc). It is >> > perfectly ok to sell for a 20% profit, then watch the stock keep >> > right on going to where you would have been up 50%. Doesn't >> > necessarily feel good, but it's still ok. >> > >> > That's one reason why I would not simply sell when I am up 20%, >> > but rather would use a trailing stop. If it keeps going higher, >> > I adjust the stop higher (but never, ever downward). Doesn't >> > matter to me if I have to adjust the stop every day for weeks. >> > >> > Good luck, >> > >> > Tom Worley >> > stkguru@netside.net >> > ICQ # 5568838 >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Michael Doroshenko >> > To: CANSLIM >> > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:08 PM >> > Subject: [CANSLIM] SKX >> > >> > >> > Hi All: >> > I am new to investing with a brokerage account in the market. >> > >> > I bought in on Skechers in January at 22 1/16. Skechers rode all >> > the way up >> > to 30 as of yesterday. >> > >> > Today, the bubble burst on Skechers because of Sidoti lowered its >> > rating >> > from buy to neutral. They cited valuation concerns of the >> > company. Skechers >> > is down 5.00 at 25.00. >> > >> > Do I bail out with a small gain or do I ride this out due to >> > rating fears >> > and let the weak take their profits yet I still remain strong >> > willed to keep >> > this due to company fundamentals. I do believe in the company >> > fundamentals. >> > >> > What has others done with this scenario? >> > >> > >> > >> > - >> > >> > >> > >> > - >> > >> > >> >> >> >> - >> >> >> - >> >> > > > >- > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:49:44 -0700 From: esetser Subject: [CANSLIM] Leaders List Well, here's the end of a new experiment. I used the DGO Printed Product list to generate the list this weekend. I started with all stocks at 80/80 EPS/RS, and Group RS above 76 (about the top 60 groups). Then I use my formula to combine the EPS/RS/A-D/SMR/Spons ranks into a single rank. I selected the top 100 (roughly) stocks based on this ranking. The following list has most of those I think look best for the next week or so at the top of the list. Please, you should always do your own technical and fundamental analysis. (Standard disclaimer: I own TYC, ASHW, CHCS, GBL, and GIL.) PATH IMPH ESRX GMCR EDMC SWBT BLK SLOT ESI FII BNKU WTM CAH BDY KBH LNCR CPN ANF THX NRG FTS SHOO DV DYN LTRE DIAN KP FED WDR GNWR OK NFB FITB WM BBT OAT RCBK CHIC APOL USPH SKX CHBS HOTT AMSGB SHFL DORL UCBH MTH GCO CHCS ACF KNGT BZH AMSGA NYCB IGT EASI PHCC RGFC SNV AGM CORS KMP LEN PDII COCO CACOA JNY PDS TBL SP EWBC CFR NVR HP TOS SBIB PORT IRWN PLB AFWY NCBC COLM GIL MHI SPF LLL AMRI ABK SUB MDC RYL IBKC EXCO ADVP EPD MTB RHB INBI FMN GBBK ZQK SERO PVA TRBS HI SCOR GSY AVNT MHO RCGI ALAB STU RY BOKF WBB BWE ADSK HNP FRC WBPR DSL ATK - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:07:29 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: [CANSLIM] DGO List - Part One Despite Nasdaq's 7+% drop last week, the overall list grew to 246 possibles from 221 the prior week. Before that, it was 181 and 185. NVR - possible handle forming to the short 5 week cup NARA - one week handle on a shallow cup ACF - B2+ TRR - B3+ ESA - B2 DFXI - nice c&h except right rim and handle a little too high HOTT - may be breaking out, up nicely Fri on volume less than 1.5X ADV, closed at the high of the day and the pivot, showing a B5 IGT - volatile LLUR?? FED - B5 MHO - B2+ SWBT - B6+ LNR - B2+, extremely tight and well behaved daily range NCOG - B2 ACS - B2 FII - B3+ JHF - B2+ HF - B2 COCO - B2 Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net ICQ # 5568838 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:27:21 -0800 From: "Mike Lucero" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SKX I believe "stop loss" is used for the initial selling point you choose that stops your loss due to the trade being a loser rather than a winner. A "trailing stop" is a technique for exiting the trade where you raise your selling point as the stock moves up. A "hard" stop would be placed with the broker to be executed automatically when touched. A "mental" stop is one you keep in your head (or on paper) only, and if hit it would require you to take action to sell. To me, the biggest benefit of the hard stop is that you don't have to take any action. Your stock's already gone. Then, you have to stop yourself from buying it back. After using trailing hard stops for a couple of years, I'm still happy with them. I do have other sell "rules" though, and will sometimes sell before the stop is hit. But my trailing stops are close enough to use as my usual exit. Mike - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Hollingworth" To: Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] SKX What is the difference between a trailing stop and a stop loss? I don't think I have access to a trailing stop at Fidelity online. Ann Hollingworth Amherst, Massachusetts - -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Michael Doroshenko Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 12:54 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SKX Hi Tom and esetser: Thanks for your advice and suggestions. I took the advice of one other member of this group and set a stop loss at 24.50. This took me out of the stock at the close of the day. I am going to continue to watch this stock next week for a new entry. I perceive that we might have continued downtrend over the next couple of days by the way the stock was acting yesterday. When I determine that there is some kind of support in the stock (have to be careful here), then I will determine the appropriate entry back into it. I will study the stock action during the next couple of days by its price range of that day and follow up with confirmation of where the stock ends in that range and check BigCharts daily performance of the stock to determine a point of entry. I will also use more services of my broker (Schwab). You suggest that I should use a trailing stop on the stock. I think I would be more comfortable to use the stop loss order to help me preserve more capital against these types of bloodbaths. Then if I feel confident and the stock is acting the way it is, I can cancel the stop loss and set a new one where I am comfortable with. So the lesson learned by me is to use the services that are available until I get used to trading in the market and help me preserve more capital and keep those gains. It does not justify using mental stops like I did in this trade. It is to use the mechanics of the trading system to help me through this. If the service is offered, why not use it to my advantage? Thanks. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Worley" To: Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SKX > Hi Michael, > > Welcome to the group, and to investing. This is a good place to > learn, especially about CANSLIM. > > This stock made such a steep move, and in less than favorable > market conditions, that I would have maintained a trailing stop > on it of no more than 15%. Because of the tightness of the daily > trading range, I likely would have tightened that up even more. > At this point, you have little choice but to wait and see how > this stock opens on Monday. > > Probably the most important rule and lesson to learn about > investing, no matter what system or device or strategy you > employ, is preservation of capital. > > The second most important lesson to learn is how and when to take > profits, especially when you are new to it and still learning > (actually, even the old timers like me are learning still, this > "M" is unlike anything I can recall). Wm O'Neil encourages > newcomers to CANSLIM to take profits at an arbitrary gain of 20%. > This not only preserves your capital, it gives you a buffer for > those stocks where you make a mistake in choice or timing, or the > stock or "M" simply fools you (or a war breaks out somewhere, or > the Feds hike when the market expected a cut, or a major > wirehouse downgrades a stock you own, etc etc etc). It is > perfectly ok to sell for a 20% profit, then watch the stock keep > right on going to where you would have been up 50%. Doesn't > necessarily feel good, but it's still ok. > > That's one reason why I would not simply sell when I am up 20%, > but rather would use a trailing stop. If it keeps going higher, > I adjust the stop higher (but never, ever downward). Doesn't > matter to me if I have to adjust the stop every day for weeks. > > Good luck, > > Tom Worley > stkguru@netside.net > ICQ # 5568838 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Doroshenko > To: CANSLIM > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:08 PM > Subject: [CANSLIM] SKX > > > Hi All: > I am new to investing with a brokerage account in the market. > > I bought in on Skechers in January at 22 1/16. Skechers rode all > the way up > to 30 as of yesterday. > > Today, the bubble burst on Skechers because of Sidoti lowered its > rating > from buy to neutral. They cited valuation concerns of the > company. Skechers > is down 5.00 at 25.00. > > Do I bail out with a small gain or do I ride this out due to > rating fears > and let the weak take their profits yet I still remain strong > willed to keep > this due to company fundamentals. I do believe in the company > fundamentals. > > What has others done with this scenario? > > > > - > > > > - > > - - - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:45:36 -0700 From: esetser Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SKX Would you care to share how you set your trailing stops, and how long they keep you in an average CANSLIM purchase? I agree that the term "stop loss" was originally used to mean just that, a way to stop your loss at some point. However, since the same term is what is used for on-line orders, it could probably be changed to mean "stop the loss from the stock's high". At 03:27 PM 2/10/01 -0800, you wrote: >I believe "stop loss" is used for the initial selling point you choose that >stops your loss due to the trade being a loser rather than a winner. > >A "trailing stop" is a technique for exiting the trade where you raise your >selling point as the stock moves up. > >A "hard" stop would be placed with the broker to be executed automatically >when touched. A "mental" stop is one you keep in your head (or on paper) >only, and if hit it would require you to take action to sell. To me, the >biggest benefit of the hard stop is that you don't have to take any action. >Your stock's already gone. Then, you have to stop yourself from buying it >back. > >After using trailing hard stops for a couple of years, I'm still happy with >them. I do have other sell "rules" though, and will sometimes sell before >the stop is hit. But my trailing stops are close enough to use as my usual >exit. > >Mike > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ann Hollingworth" >To: >Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:11 AM >Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] SKX > > >What is the difference between a trailing stop and a stop loss? I don't >think I have access to a trailing stop at Fidelity online. > >Ann Hollingworth >Amherst, Massachusetts > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Michael Doroshenko >Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 12:54 PM >To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SKX > > >Hi Tom and esetser: >Thanks for your advice and suggestions. > >I took the advice of one other member of this group and set a stop loss at >24.50. This took me out of the stock at the close of the day. I am going to >continue to watch this stock next week for a new entry. I perceive that we >might have continued downtrend over the next couple of days by the way the >stock was acting yesterday. When I determine that there is some kind of >support in the stock (have to be careful here), then I will determine the >appropriate entry back into it. > >I will study the stock action during the next couple of days by its price >range of that day and follow up with confirmation of where the stock ends in >that range and check BigCharts daily performance of the stock to determine a >point of entry. > >I will also use more services of my broker (Schwab). You suggest that I >should use a trailing stop on the stock. I think I would be more comfortable >to use the stop loss order to help me preserve more capital against these >types of bloodbaths. Then if I feel confident and the stock is acting the >way it is, I can cancel the stop loss and set a new one where I am >comfortable with. > >So the lesson learned by me is to use the services that are available until >I get used to trading in the market and help me preserve more capital and >keep those gains. It does not justify using mental stops like I did in this >trade. It is to use the mechanics of the trading system to help me through >this. If the service is offered, why not use it to my advantage? Thanks. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Worley" >To: >Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 9:24 AM >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SKX > > >> Hi Michael, >> >> Welcome to the group, and to investing. This is a good place to >> learn, especially about CANSLIM. >> >> This stock made such a steep move, and in less than favorable >> market conditions, that I would have maintained a trailing stop >> on it of no more than 15%. Because of the tightness of the daily >> trading range, I likely would have tightened that up even more. >> At this point, you have little choice but to wait and see how >> this stock opens on Monday. >> >> Probably the most important rule and lesson to learn about >> investing, no matter what system or device or strategy you >> employ, is preservation of capital. >> >> The second most important lesson to learn is how and when to take >> profits, especially when you are new to it and still learning >> (actually, even the old timers like me are learning still, this >> "M" is unlike anything I can recall). Wm O'Neil encourages >> newcomers to CANSLIM to take profits at an arbitrary gain of 20%. >> This not only preserves your capital, it gives you a buffer for >> those stocks where you make a mistake in choice or timing, or the >> stock or "M" simply fools you (or a war breaks out somewhere, or >> the Feds hike when the market expected a cut, or a major >> wirehouse downgrades a stock you own, etc etc etc). It is >> perfectly ok to sell for a 20% profit, then watch the stock keep >> right on going to where you would have been up 50%. Doesn't >> necessarily feel good, but it's still ok. >> >> That's one reason why I would not simply sell when I am up 20%, >> but rather would use a trailing stop. If it keeps going higher, >> I adjust the stop higher (but never, ever downward). Doesn't >> matter to me if I have to adjust the stop every day for weeks. >> >> Good luck, >> >> Tom Worley >> stkguru@netside.net >> ICQ # 5568838 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Michael Doroshenko >> To: CANSLIM >> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:08 PM >> Subject: [CANSLIM] SKX >> >> >> Hi All: >> I am new to investing with a brokerage account in the market. >> >> I bought in on Skechers in January at 22 1/16. Skechers rode all >> the way up >> to 30 as of yesterday. >> >> Today, the bubble burst on Skechers because of Sidoti lowered its >> rating >> from buy to neutral. They cited valuation concerns of the >> company. Skechers >> is down 5.00 at 25.00. >> >> Do I bail out with a small gain or do I ride this out due to >> rating fears >> and let the weak take their profits yet I still remain strong >> willed to keep >> this due to company fundamentals. I do believe in the company >> fundamentals. >> >> What has others done with this scenario? >> >> >> >> - >> >> >> >> - >> >> > > > >- > > >- > > > >- > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:26:02 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: [CANSLIM] DGO List - Part Two Lots of banks continue to dominate this list. I notice a higher than normal nr of stocks on the overall list are under some form of buyout, thus making the list due price. I have tried to exclude them from mention. Home builders were the next most noticable group, some made my list, others were mostly extended. I view the continued expansion of the overall list as a positive comment on "M", despite the lackluster performances of many indexes. It usually indicates to me that CANSLIM style investing is coming back into favor. IBCP - B5 ABK - B2 handle on the cup ITLA - B6 SIB - B2 NFB - B7 MRG - double bottom completed? ALAB - B4 KMP - B2 BBT - B5 DKWD - B3 FRC - B5 WPBR - B6 CFFN - B5 RCGI - B4+ FITB - B4 BCS - B4 BWE - B4 ASD - b/o Friday on volume from B5 YELL - B5 AME - B7 DRS - B2+ BOKF - B5 Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net ICQ # 5568838 - - ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2001 19:35:02 -0800 From: "Tim Fisher" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] SKX Me too! I'm out of 1/2 the position at +15-25%, depending on how fast it got there. Then I set a stop for just over the purchase price on the other 1/2, so I wind up (usually) with a 7.5-12.5% gain overall. If it trades above +25% and stays there for a day or two, I move my stop up to a 15% trailing stop. Remember the 8% stop is on the initial purchase only; you will get stopped out far too often by keeping the trailing stop at 8%. I believe WON recommends a 15% trailing stop when your stock is up 20%. At 08:37 PM 2/9/01 -0700, you wrote: >I tried a slightly different approach than I've done previously with SKX. >After watching some pretty good gains waste away on a few stocks earlier, >I'm trying a new rule, "Keep half of the gains". For stocks that gain 30% >or more, I'm following them up with a 1/2 gain stop. I would hope to move >out of any stock before it moved down this much, but in cases like SKX, it >only takes one day for much of your gain to go away. I was stopped out of >SKX today, but ended with a 22% gain. I'm not sure which way the stock >will go now, it may move up somewhat on Monday, but sometimes these moves >continue for some time. > >Comments on this approach? Good luck with whatever you do. > >At 02:08 PM 2/9/01 -0600, you wrote: > >Hi All: > >I am new to investing with a brokerage account in the market. > > > >I bought in on Skechers in January at 22 1/16. Skechers rode all the way up > >to 30 as of yesterday. > > > >Today, the bubble burst on Skechers because of Sidoti lowered its rating > >from buy to neutral. They cited valuation concerns of the company. Skechers > >is down 5.00 at 25.00. > > > >Do I bail out with a small gain or do I ride this out due to rating fears > >and let the weak take their profits yet I still remain strong willed to keep > >this due to company fundamentals. I do believe in the company fundamentals. > > > >What has others done with this scenario? > > > > > > > >- > > > > > > > >- Tim Fisher tim@OreRockOn.com Ore-Rock-On and Pacific Fishery Biologists Web Pages http://OreRockOn.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2001 19:42:11 -0800 From: "Tim Fisher" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] spch Tom, I trade HTFs and this is not one of them. As you said, way too droopy, and the vol should have dried up more, and the trading range should have been much narrower. This one is headed back into its base, from the look of the chart. At 10:09 AM 2/10/01 -0500, you wrote: >The basic CS elements are fine, the problem is the chart, and a >few technicals. What I see on the chart is a high tight flag, >and while I am hardly an expert on HTF patterns (there are >several much better in this group), it has fallen steadily for >the past three days from a new high of 11.375 on Tuesday to >9.5625 on Friday, and on volume. To me, it appears the spike that >created the HTF is failing. I also note on Friday it closed at >the low of the day, so Monday could gap down. Friday's volume was >down slightly from prior days, so the quick daytraders may have >mostly exited already. > >I also note that management owns 74% of the company. While that >doesn't bother me (I like them having something at risk along >with me), it does add to the overall risk. If they voted Monday >to take the company private at $5.00 per share, there is little >the public investors could do about it. > >Aside from the HTF pattern, the present price, despite the drop >last week, is still way too extended over any base. It appears to >have formed a very deep cup, with an attempt at a handle around >8. If I were interested, I might wait and see if it pulls back >that far, and try to buy it there and wait for another spike. > >Tom Worley >stkguru@netside.net >ICQ # 5568838 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: esetser >To: >Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 8:37 PM >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] spch > > >Yes, pretty much I agree. Pretty good numbers, nice breakout, >but really >small. I don't buy stocks where my purchase would be 50% of the >daily >volume!! Tom, you are our resident small cap guy, what do you >think? > >At 02:59 PM 2/9/01 EST, you wrote: > >SPCH, see what you think, what is a good entry point if any at >all. Might be > >too thinly of a traded stock. Has good numbers, break out on >good volume, >but > >just too thin. > > > > > >- > > > > > > > >- > > > >- Tim Fisher tim@OreRockOn.com Ore-Rock-On and Pacific Fishery Biologists Web Pages http://OreRockOn.com/ - - ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #1118 ****************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.