From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #1873 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Sunday, December 2 2001 Volume 02 : Number 1873 In this issue: Re: [CANSLIM] (CANSLIM) Clarify Group RS Re: BRCM (was Re: [CANSLIM] Fallen Angels and Market Valuations) Re: [CANSLIM] Re: (CANSLIM) Things I Learned - Industry Group Graphs [CANSLIM] Weekly Stock List [CANSLIM] Sending large or non-text files to the canslim group Re: [CANSLIM] Re: (CANSLIM) Things I Learned - Industry Group Graphs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 07:42:30 -0700 From: Warren Keuffel Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] (CANSLIM) Clarify Group RS How are you "So, just in case, I'm preparing myself for such an environment."? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks. Warren Katherine Malm wrote: > Chris, Believe it or not, that wasn't a typo. I have one of those big > wall charts from IBD called "50 Years of News & Markets" purchased > back in '98. Sometimes I put it very, very far away from me across the > room and remind myself, that over 50 years the faint black line I see > is trending up. But then, every once and a while I get up very close > and look at the detail. What has always struck me about this chart is > the period from 1965-1981. It has oscillations up and down, but when > you draw a trend line, it's sideways. Sideways for 16 years! Criminey, > 16 YEARS. After such a period of reckless squandering of investment > dollars and a very long period of "up," I'd put the odds of that > happening again way up there. So, just in case, I'm preparing myself > for such an environment. Katherine > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chris Mc > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 11:18 AM > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] (CANSLIM) Clarify Group RS > >>Just like if you don't have the C & the A, you better > have the N & the L. It's up to us which "sin" we want to > commit. > > In "easy" bull markets, I think you can fudge and > get away with this. But the market we are in and > the market that we will be in for the next 15 > years or so will not allow for fudging. It's going > to be very hard work and stock picking skills will > be of utmost importance. I hope you means MONTHS, > not years! Chris Mc > - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 08:47:48 -0600 From: "Katherine Malm" Subject: Re: BRCM (was Re: [CANSLIM] Fallen Angels and Market Valuations) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C17B0E.0528C0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tom, I agree with you on the issue of P/E. But I use the DGO's P/E as a proxy = for pursuing "hunches" because it is readily available to me. In fact, = P/E's flaws are the reason why I put more emphasis on Price to Sales = (P/S) instead. With the exception of revenue recognition techniques, = etc., sales are a little tougher to manipulate than Earnings. In late = April 2000 I made a list of high P/E stocks, then sorted by P/S. Not = only were P/E's high by historical standards but also the P/S's. Many of = the former high fliers have seen their P/E's collapse as P and E crater, = but even a company like BRCM is still very much at risk. Out of my = original list of 67 names, there are still 22 names with P/S greater = than BRCM's 10.03. Unlike BRCM, however, some of the 22 still have good = forward growth rates that are positive. As a representative sample, I = think it just speaks to the general valuation of the market. For certain = parts of the market, I'm not convinced that the air's all the way out of = the tire yet. Unfortunately, that means as this happens, some good stuff = is going to catch the lousy tail wind. Katherine ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tom Worley=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 8:10 AM Subject: BRCM (was Re: [CANSLIM] Fallen Angels and Market Valuations) Hi Katherine, I have been seeing similar extremes in a lot of the big name tech = stocks lately, mostly a reflection of the collapsing earnings without = equal collapse in price. Demonstrates once again the importance of = looking at projected PE rather than trailing PE. In this case, the = forecasts are for diminishing losses, so until the forecast for 2003 is = available, it's hard to get an accurate picture on whether this stock is = so overvalued. Another way of looking at it is the market cap to sales ratio. That's = sitting around 11 right now, so I would have to say it's still being = overvalued, just not as much as the PE suggests. Lots of high = expectations waiting to be rewarded! Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net AIM: TexWorley ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Katherine Malm=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 8:20 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] Fallen Angels and Market Valuations BRCM Many of you may know this stock. It is was a spectacular stock = during the last Bull run. It is a company filled with brilliant people = who have great vision. I have been watching the action in this stock = recently as it tries to form a bottom. Certainly many of you would = classify it as a "fallen angel." At the time that it peaked in price in = late August 2000, it was selling for about $268. It's PE at the time was = over 10 times the S&P average. I remember at the time thinking that this = would be something we would never see again in our lifetime. Good = heavens, 10 times? Down the price came along with other similar players. = Since that time, of course, earnings have slowed along with earnings in = most every tech stock. Today it closed at $43.99. It's PE? 16.9 times the S&P average PE. = Hmmm...something to consider when asking whether or not the bubble = excesses have yet been worked out. Katherine - ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C17B0E.0528C0C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tom,
 
I agree with you on the issue = of P/E. But I=20 use the DGO's P/E as a proxy for pursuing "hunches" because it is = readily=20 available to me. In fact, P/E's flaws are the reason why I put more = emphasis on=20 Price to Sales (P/S) instead. With the exception of revenue = recognition=20 techniques, etc., sales are a little tougher to manipulate than = Earnings. In=20 late April 2000 I made a list of high P/E stocks, then sorted by P/S. = Not only=20 were P/E's high by historical standards but also the P/S's. Many of the = former=20 high fliers have seen their P/E's collapse as P and E crater, but even a = company=20 like BRCM is still very much at risk. Out of my original list of 67 = names, there=20 are still 22 names with P/S greater than BRCM's 10.03. Unlike BRCM, = however,=20 some of the 22 still have good forward growth rates that are positive. = As a=20 representative sample, I think it just speaks to the general valuation = of the=20 market. For certain parts of the market, I'm not convinced that the = air's all=20 the way out of the tire yet. Unfortunately, that means as this happens, = some=20 good stuff is going to catch the lousy tail wind.
 
Katherine
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tom = Worley=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 = 8:10=20 AM
Subject: BRCM (was Re: = [CANSLIM] Fallen=20 Angels and Market Valuations)

Hi Katherine,
 
I have been seeing similar extremes in a lot of = the big name=20 tech stocks lately, mostly a reflection of the collapsing earnings = without=20 equal collapse in price. Demonstrates once again the importance of = looking at=20 projected PE rather than trailing PE. In this case, the forecasts are = for=20 diminishing losses, so until the forecast for 2003 is available, it's = hard to=20 get an accurate picture on whether this stock is so = overvalued.
 
Another way of looking at it is the market cap to = sales=20 ratio. That's sitting around 11 right now, so I would have to say it's = still=20 being overvalued, just not as much as the PE suggests. Lots of high=20 expectations waiting to be rewarded!
 
Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net
AIM:=20 TexWorley
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Katherine=20 Malm
Sent: Friday, November 30, = 2001 8:20=20 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] Fallen = Angels and=20 Market Valuations

BRCM
 
Many of you may know this stock. It = is was a=20 spectacular stock during the last Bull run. It is a = company filled with=20 brilliant people who have great vision. I have been watching the = action in=20 this stock recently as it tries to form a bottom. Certainly many of = you=20 would classify it as a "fallen angel." At the time that it peaked in = price=20 in late August 2000, it was selling for about $268. It's PE at the = time was=20 over 10 times the S&P average. I remember at the time thinking = that this=20 would be something we would never see again in our lifetime. Good = heavens,=20 10 times? Down the price came along with other similar players. = Since that=20 time, of course, earnings have slowed along with earnings in most = every tech=20 stock.
 
Today it closed at $43.99. It's PE? = 16.9 times the S&P average PE. Hmmm...something = to=20 consider when asking whether or not the bubble excesses have yet = been worked=20 out.
 
Katherine
- ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C17B0E.0528C0C0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 08:50:47 -0600 From: "walter nusbaum" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: (CANSLIM) Things I Learned - Industry Group Graphs This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C17B0E.6FAF42C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Norm, Thanks for your generous offer. Sorry, I don't have the electronic = version, but would it be convenient for you to post the data that you = have even though it might be stale by a few days? After all, we're = looking for emerging group moves lasting weeks or perhaps months and any = inaccuracies that may initially exist will eventually be made evident. = Thanks again. Best wishes, Walt =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Norman=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: (CANSLIM) Things I Learned - Industry Group = Graphs Follow up to what I posted below. I would be willing to post the = workbook for the group each week if someone could furnish me with an = "accurate" electronic version of the rankings each weekend. Then I = could just paste them in and post the workbook to the large-file server = and we could all benefit from a great technique for spotting group = moves. Of course, we couldn't use any copyrighted data tho :-) Norm theboyd@tisd.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Norman=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: (CANSLIM) Things I Learned - Industry = Group Graphs "However, if charted, the pattern of the ratings (or most=20 > anything that fluctuates, and is affected not by physical law, but = rather by=20 > human emotions) could more easily be discerned." Jans, if you remember the xls workbook that Jerry posted a while = back that is exactly what I designed the workbook for. I entered the = group ranks each week and had worksheets automatically generated = depicting graphs for each industry group. It works great but the data = is always old. I quite updating the workbook each weekend because the = Friday and Monday rankings in the paper are sometimes very wrong and I = would have to wait for the Tuesday edition to come in the mail on = Wednesday so I could enter accurate data; and then it would be the last = Friday's data. I do not know where to get up-to-the-day accurate group = rankings. But the point is that a graphical representation of group = movements is sooooooo great for detecting early group movements. (Snip) - ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C17B0E.6FAF42C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Norm,
Thanks for your generous offer. Sorry, I don't = have the=20 electronic version, but would it be convenient for you = to post=20 the data that you have even though it might be stale by a few days? = After=20 all, we're looking for emerging group moves lasting weeks or perhaps = months and=20 any inaccuracies that may initially exist will eventually be made = evident.=20 Thanks again.
Best wishes,
Walt
    
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Norman
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 = 7:33=20 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: = (CANSLIM)=20 Things I Learned - Industry Group Graphs

Follow up to what I posted below.  I would be willing to = post the=20 workbook for the group each week if someone could furnish me with an=20 "accurate" electronic version of the rankings each weekend.  Then = I could=20 just paste them in and post the workbook to the large-file server and = we could=20 all benefit from a great technique for spotting group moves.  Of = course,=20 we couldn't use any copyrighted data tho :-)
 
Norm
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Norman
Sent: Sunday, December 02, = 2001 7:20=20 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: = (CANSLIM)=20 Things I Learned - Industry Group Graphs

"However, if charted, the pattern of the = ratings=20 (or most
> anything that fluctuates, and is affected not by = physical=20 law, but rather by
> human emotions) could more easily be=20 discerned."
 
Jans, if you remember the xls workbook that Jerry posted a = while back=20 that is exactly what I designed the workbook for.  I entered = the group=20 ranks each week and had worksheets automatically generated depicting = graphs=20 for each industry group.  It works great but the data is always = old.  I quite updating the workbook each weekend because the = Friday and=20 Monday rankings in the paper are sometimes very wrong and I would = have to=20 wait for the Tuesday edition to come in the mail on Wednesday so I = could=20 enter accurate data; and then it would be the last Friday's = data.  I do=20 not know where to get up-to-the-day accurate group rankings.  = But the=20 point is that a graphical representation of group movements is = sooooooo=20 great for detecting early group movements.
 
(Snip)
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C17B0E.6FAF42C0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 09:56:33 -0500 From: "ANDREW ABRAHAM" Subject: [CANSLIM] Weekly Stock List This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C17B17.9FCA8B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can someone please send the list of canslim stocks from Daily Graphs... thanks Real Estate Investors Group - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C17B17.9FCA8B00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IiEOAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANEHDAACAAkAOAAAAAAAJwEB A5AGAIQFAAAmAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAB4AcAAB AAAAEwAAAFdlZWtseSBTdG9jayBMaXN0IAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAcF7QX7n3VQxgVRAQoiXc93V 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Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 08:00:00 -0700 From: owner-canslim@xmission.com (Jeff Salisbury) Subject: [CANSLIM] Sending large or non-text files to the canslim group Everyone, There are times when you may wish to share large or non-text files with our group (i.e. gif, jpeg, spreadsheets, etc). Our list is configured to reject all files over 80K. You can attach files under this threshold to your email posting. While files under this 80K threshold are delivered by the canslim list software, receiving mail servers often reject files over 40K. This means that while your file was delivered by the canslim mail server, many users will not have received it because their mail server rejected it... This does not mean you cannot share large files with the group. Rather, the BEST way to share large files with the group (even those under 80K) is to place the file at an ftp site, and then refer to the link in your canslim posting. This way, the reader can read your posting, click on the link, and instantly see what you are talking about. If you have your own ftp site, feel free to use it. If you do not have access to your own ftp site, we have provided an anonymous ftp site. To provide your file to the group, please follow these instructions: 1. Send your file to: "ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/users/m/mcjathan/incoming/". If you don't know how to ftp a file, you can use the ftp instructions at the bottom of this message. 2. After not more than 15 minutes, your file will be available for everyone at the URL of: http://WallStreet-LLC.com/pub/your_file_name where "your_file_name" is the exact name of the file you uploaded. This file name should NOT have spaces or other strange characters. Letter, numbers, and "." are always good, i.e. "canslim_25.gif". 3. Before posting your message to the group, test the URL of your file by copying the web address: http://WallStreet-LLC.com/pub/your_file_name into your browser and seeing if your browser displays the file properly. 4. Finally, send your message to the group describing your file, and be sure to explicity include the URL of your file. Although this may seem unwieldy at first, it really isn't too bad and it solves more problems than it creates. If you have any problems with this procedure, feel free to contact me at mcjathan@xmission.com. Best Regards, Jeff Salisbury =========================================================================== Netscape FTP Instructions: 1. Using Netscape, go to the URL: ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/users/m/mcjathan/incoming/ 2. On the Netscape "File" menu, select "Upload File..." This will open a file selection widget on your hard-drive. Select the file you wish to upload and hit the "Ok" button. At this point, your file will be uploaded. 3. Eventhough your file has been uploaded, you will not be able to see the file in your netscape browser. The reason for this is that the "incoming" directory is set to write-only for security reasons. Internet Explorer FTP Instructions: 1. Using "Internet Explorer", go to the URL: ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/users/m/mcjathan/incoming/ 2. Open "Windows Explorer" to browse your local hard-drive. Find the file you want to send. Select the file by clicking once. The right-click and "copy" the file. 3. Go back to the Internet Explorer window. Right-click and "paste" the file. It will be uploaded to the canslim ftp site. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 09:19:41 -0600 From: "Norman" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: (CANSLIM) Things I Learned - Industry Group Graphs This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01C17B12.78F73820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Walt, Until I find a source of timely AND accurate group ranks available on = weekends I have put the workbook on hold. It was taking me too long to = type in the ranks each weekend for me to do it with inaccurate data. = And I was surprised at how a group can reverse it's trend in a week. = So, I would rather have timely data rather than depending on data a week = old. But the graphs really looked amazing! I think it was the = scientist in me that was most attracted to the graphical analysis of = population ... er ... group-rank trends :-) Norm ----- Original Message -----=20 From: walter nusbaum=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: (CANSLIM) Things I Learned - Industry Group = Graphs Norm, Thanks for your generous offer. Sorry, I don't have the electronic = version, but would it be convenient for you to post the data that you = have even though it might be stale by a few days? After all, we're = looking for emerging group moves lasting weeks or perhaps months and any = inaccuracies that may initially exist will eventually be made evident. = Thanks again. Best wishes, Walt =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Norman=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: (CANSLIM) Things I Learned - Industry = Group Graphs Follow up to what I posted below. I would be willing to post the = workbook for the group each week if someone could furnish me with an = "accurate" electronic version of the rankings each weekend. Then I = could just paste them in and post the workbook to the large-file server = and we could all benefit from a great technique for spotting group = moves. Of course, we couldn't use any copyrighted data tho :-) Norm theboyd@tisd.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Norman=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: (CANSLIM) Things I Learned - Industry = Group Graphs "However, if charted, the pattern of the ratings (or most=20 > anything that fluctuates, and is affected not by physical law, = but rather by=20 > human emotions) could more easily be discerned." Jans, if you remember the xls workbook that Jerry posted a while = back that is exactly what I designed the workbook for. I entered the = group ranks each week and had worksheets automatically generated = depicting graphs for each industry group. It works great but the data = is always old. I quite updating the workbook each weekend because the = Friday and Monday rankings in the paper are sometimes very wrong and I = would have to wait for the Tuesday edition to come in the mail on = Wednesday so I could enter accurate data; and then it would be the last = Friday's data. I do not know where to get up-to-the-day accurate group = rankings. But the point is that a graphical representation of group = movements is sooooooo great for detecting early group movements. (Snip) - ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01C17B12.78F73820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Walt,
 
Until I find a source of timely AND accurate group ranks = available on=20 weekends I have put the workbook on hold.  It was taking me too = long to=20 type in the ranks each weekend for me to do it with inaccurate = data.  And I=20 was surprised at how a group can reverse it's trend in a = week.  So, I=20 would rather have timely data rather than depending on data a week = old. =20 But the graphs really looked amazing!  I think it was the scientist = in me=20 that was most attracted to the graphical analysis of population ... er = ...=20 group-rank trends :-)
 
Norm
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 walter=20 nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 = 8:50=20 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: = (CANSLIM)=20 Things I Learned - Industry Group Graphs

Norm,
Thanks for your generous offer. Sorry, I = don't have the=20 electronic version, but would it be convenient for you = to post=20 the data that you have even though it might be stale by a few = days? After=20 all, we're looking for emerging group moves lasting weeks or perhaps = months=20 and any inaccuracies that may initially exist will eventually be made = evident.=20 Thanks again.
Best wishes,
Walt
    
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Norman
Sent: Sunday, December 02, = 2001 7:33=20 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: = (CANSLIM)=20 Things I Learned - Industry Group Graphs

Follow up to what I posted below.  I would be willing to = post the=20 workbook for the group each week if someone could furnish me with an = "accurate" electronic version of the rankings each weekend.  = Then I=20 could just paste them in and post the workbook to the large-file = server and=20 we could all benefit from a great technique for spotting group = moves. =20 Of course, we couldn't use any copyrighted data tho :-)
 
Norm
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Norman
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Sunday, December 02, = 2001 7:20=20 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: = (CANSLIM)=20 Things I Learned - Industry Group Graphs

"However, if charted, the pattern of = the ratings=20 (or most
> anything that fluctuates, and is affected not by = physical law, but rather by
> human emotions) could more = easily be=20 discerned."
 
Jans, if you remember the xls workbook that Jerry posted a = while back=20 that is exactly what I designed the workbook for.  I entered = the=20 group ranks each week and had worksheets automatically generated = depicting=20 graphs for each industry group.  It works great but the data = is=20 always old.  I quite updating the workbook each weekend = because the=20 Friday and Monday rankings in the paper are sometimes very wrong = and I=20 would have to wait for the Tuesday edition to come in the mail on=20 Wednesday so I could enter accurate data; and then it would be the = last=20 Friday's data.  I do not know where to get up-to-the-day = accurate=20 group rankings.  But the point is that a graphical = representation of=20 group movements is sooooooo great for detecting early group=20 movements.
 
(Snip)
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01C17B12.78F73820-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #1873 ****************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.