From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #2119 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Wednesday, February 13 2002 Volume 02 : Number 2119 In this issue: LLUR (Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction) Re: LLUR (Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction) Re: LLUR (Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction) AW: [CANSLIM] Introduction [CANSLIM] Re:Cash Flow Re: [CANSLIM] Re:Cash Flow ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:24:29 -0500 From: "Rob Miller" Subject: LLUR (Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction) Tom, Thanks for answering my question. It seems that LLUR is not a pattern, or base, in the true sense of the word. How does it differ from a stock that has been in a smooth uptrend? For example, a stock could break out from a cup w/handle and rise for several months or more in a nice smooth uptrend. Would this then be considered an LLUR? My impression is that this is a way to get into to a stock that has either not formed a level base or has been rising indefinitely from a prior breakout. Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the use of this pattern. In the past, I've found buying an uptrending stock at the bottom of its channel to be a good method. However, since I'm using CANSLIM as my primary method, I'd like to fully understand how it fits in before I add it to my arsenal. Thanks, Rob - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Worley" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:01 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction > Hi Rob, and welcome to the group. > > The LLUR pattern was a contribution to this group by a former member over > three years ago. More recently, IBD discovered the "ascending base" which > has similar definitions. > > Best way to see the "base" is by tilting your head about 45 degrees to the > left. Entry and exit points depend on whether you are trying to trade short > or long term. For short term, it's critical to identify the moving average > which marks the lower and upper sides of the trading range. For long term, > entry is pretty much a matter of your choice. Take DLX for example. You > could have thrown a dart and entered it anywhere you wanted over the past > nine months or so, and still have a respectable profit now. And that's > despite slow growth, 1.1% earnings growth for 2001, 6% estimated for this > year, and today's announcement they may earn up to 9.6% (WOW!!!) this year. > > Ideally, with a LLUR pattern, you want to see 12 months of a consistent > pattern without measurable volatility. The tighter the daily trading range, > the better. And you also need to have all the standard CANSLIM elements in > place (RS, EPS, etc.). > > Tom Worley > stkguru@netside.net > AIM: TexWorley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob Miller" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:28 PM > Subject: [CANSLIM] Introduction > > > > Hello All, > > > > I subscribed a few weeks ago but thought I would listen for a while before > > introducing myself. An interesting group. I'm not new to investing or > > CANSLIM, though I did stray for a while. I became interested in CANSLIM > > about six years ago. After practicing CANSLI (M seemed irrelevant at that > > time) for a couple of years, I began to ignore fundamentals just as the > > market ignored them. I am well versed in technicals and that became the > > hallmark of my strategy for the last year of the bull market. Somewhat > > coincidentally, I got out of the market in March 2000 just before the > Nasdaq > > fell apart. The coindicence is that although I saw signs of a market > top, > > I went to cash for a different reason...vacation. Yes the market fell > apart > > while I was on vacation. I have been largely out of the market ever > since, > > with only a few trades along the way. I had also just finished college > and > > was at my new career for only 9 months at the time. I have since devoted > > more time to my career and less to personal investing. That has all > changed > > now. Last week I quit my job. After almost three years as an investment > > analyst (primarily mutual funds and retirement accounts) at a small > startup > > firm, I decided that the promise of higher pay in the future was no longer > > enough. I said "show me the money," and they said "we don't have any." > > Also, while mutual fund analysis is surpisingly challenging and fun, my > real > > interest is in stocks. So here I am, investing full time, at least > > temporarily. > > > > Now for a question. I tried to look this up in the archives, but I can't > > get the archives to work. How does the LLUR chart pattern fit the CANSLIM > > mold and how do you adapt the entry and exit methods? I don't recall ever > > hearing O'Neil mention this chart. Is this a generally accepted exception > > to the basic chart patterns that O'Neil promotes? It's an intriguing > > pattern given the lack of good bases out there, though it seems to go > > against the basic CANSLIM buying philosophy. > > > > Rob Miller > > > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:44:11 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: LLUR (Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction) Hi Rob, A LLUR pattern, at least by that name, has not been officially sanctioned by WON. But the "ascending base" pattern identified by IBD after extensive discussion in the group of LLUR is quite similar. Both are stocks in a smooth uptrend. Main difference I can find is we want a longer time period, preferably a year, before buying a LLUR. The ascending base pattern of IBD seems to want a lesser time period. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net AIM: TexWorley - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Miller" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:24 AM Subject: LLUR (Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction) > Tom, > > Thanks for answering my question. It seems that LLUR is not a pattern, or > base, in the true sense of the word. How does it differ from a stock that > has been in a smooth uptrend? For example, a stock could break out from a > cup w/handle and rise for several months or more in a nice smooth uptrend. > Would this then be considered an LLUR? My impression is that this is a way > to get into to a stock that has either not formed a level base or has been > rising indefinitely from a prior breakout. > > Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the use of this pattern. In the > past, I've found buying an uptrending stock at the bottom of its channel to > be a good method. However, since I'm using CANSLIM as my primary method, > I'd like to fully understand how it fits in before I add it to my arsenal. > > Thanks, > Rob > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Worley" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:01 AM > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction > > > > Hi Rob, and welcome to the group. > > > > The LLUR pattern was a contribution to this group by a former member over > > three years ago. More recently, IBD discovered the "ascending base" which > > has similar definitions. > > > > Best way to see the "base" is by tilting your head about 45 degrees to the > > left. Entry and exit points depend on whether you are trying to trade > short > > or long term. For short term, it's critical to identify the moving average > > which marks the lower and upper sides of the trading range. For long term, > > entry is pretty much a matter of your choice. Take DLX for example. You > > could have thrown a dart and entered it anywhere you wanted over the past > > nine months or so, and still have a respectable profit now. And that's > > despite slow growth, 1.1% earnings growth for 2001, 6% estimated for this > > year, and today's announcement they may earn up to 9.6% (WOW!!!) this > year. > > > > Ideally, with a LLUR pattern, you want to see 12 months of a consistent > > pattern without measurable volatility. The tighter the daily trading > range, > > the better. And you also need to have all the standard CANSLIM elements in > > place (RS, EPS, etc.). > > > > Tom Worley > > stkguru@netside.net > > AIM: TexWorley > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rob Miller" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:28 PM > > Subject: [CANSLIM] Introduction > > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > I subscribed a few weeks ago but thought I would listen for a while > before > > > introducing myself. An interesting group. I'm not new to investing or > > > CANSLIM, though I did stray for a while. I became interested in CANSLIM > > > about six years ago. After practicing CANSLI (M seemed irrelevant at > that > > > time) for a couple of years, I began to ignore fundamentals just as the > > > market ignored them. I am well versed in technicals and that became the > > > hallmark of my strategy for the last year of the bull market. Somewhat > > > coincidentally, I got out of the market in March 2000 just before the > > Nasdaq > > > fell apart. The coindicence is that although I saw signs of a market > > top, > > > I went to cash for a different reason...vacation. Yes the market fell > > apart > > > while I was on vacation. I have been largely out of the market ever > > since, > > > with only a few trades along the way. I had also just finished college > > and > > > was at my new career for only 9 months at the time. I have since > devoted > > > more time to my career and less to personal investing. That has all > > changed > > > now. Last week I quit my job. After almost three years as an > investment > > > analyst (primarily mutual funds and retirement accounts) at a small > > startup > > > firm, I decided that the promise of higher pay in the future was no > longer > > > enough. I said "show me the money," and they said "we don't have any." > > > Also, while mutual fund analysis is surpisingly challenging and fun, my > > real > > > interest is in stocks. So here I am, investing full time, at least > > > temporarily. > > > > > > Now for a question. I tried to look this up in the archives, but I > can't > > > get the archives to work. How does the LLUR chart pattern fit the > CANSLIM > > > mold and how do you adapt the entry and exit methods? I don't recall > ever > > > hearing O'Neil mention this chart. Is this a generally accepted > exception > > > to the basic chart patterns that O'Neil promotes? It's an intriguing > > > pattern given the lack of good bases out there, though it seems to go > > > against the basic CANSLIM buying philosophy. > > > > > > Rob Miller > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:52:47 -0600 From: "Katherine Malm" Subject: Re: LLUR (Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1B463.6D52F600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rob, Welcome to the list, glad you're here! I'll chime in to the discussion on LLUR, as I see it differently than = Tom. I do not see LLUR as a base at all. Instead, I see it as a stock in = an uptrend that happens to be printing a tight pattern that hugs an = uptrending moving average (MA). This pattern can go on for quite some = time as in the case of DLX. From a technical point of view, you would = enter on pullbacks. As with all CANSLIM sell rules, once the stock = breaks the top or bottom of the channel, this is a sell signal. An ascending base, however, is a different animal. Say a stock is in an = uptrend and then begins a consolidation period. Normally we expect that = to be a flat base (>=3D5wks), cup & handle (C&H-->=3D7wks), saucer & = handle (>=3D7wks), etc. The thing all these consolidation patterns have = in common is that they primarily correct *below* the pause point where = the consolidation begins, then, indicate their readiness to move on a = new ascent by breaking above the area of consolidation on volume. With = an ascending base (>=3D6wks), the pattern of consolidation is different = from these, usually due to choppy or sideways market conditions. What = looks like a small ascent is instead an area of consolidation in which = the stock tries several times to breakout unsuccessfully. In this case, = the area of consolidation will have a slightly upward bias. On the third = attempt, the stock, if successful, will break out of the pattern. In = this case, the break in pattern is a *buy* rather than *sell* signal.=20 As you've discovered, the list has plenty of acronyms used in everyday = discussion. Here are some of the more common: WON--William J. O'Neil HTMMIS--How to Make Money In Stocks B/O or BO--Breakout MA--Moving Average C&H or CwH--Cup and handle TA--Technical Analysis LLUR--lower left upper right IBD--Invstor's Business Daily DGO--DailyGraphs Online WWW--Tom "Worley's Weekend Weeview" in which Tom deftly summarizes = market conditions in 6 paragraphs or less. Katherine ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rob Miller=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:24 AM Subject: LLUR (Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction) Tom, Thanks for answering my question. It seems that LLUR is not a = pattern, or base, in the true sense of the word. How does it differ from a stock = that has been in a smooth uptrend? For example, a stock could break out = from a cup w/handle and rise for several months or more in a nice smooth = uptrend. Would this then be considered an LLUR? My impression is that this is = a way to get into to a stock that has either not formed a level base or has = been rising indefinitely from a prior breakout. Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the use of this pattern. In = the past, I've found buying an uptrending stock at the bottom of its = channel to be a good method. However, since I'm using CANSLIM as my primary = method, I'd like to fully understand how it fits in before I add it to my = arsenal. Thanks, Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Worley" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:01 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Introduction > Hi Rob, and welcome to the group. > > The LLUR pattern was a contribution to this group by a former member = over > three years ago. More recently, IBD discovered the "ascending base" = which > has similar definitions. > > Best way to see the "base" is by tilting your head about 45 degrees = to the > left. Entry and exit points depend on whether you are trying to = trade short > or long term. For short term, it's critical to identify the moving = average > which marks the lower and upper sides of the trading range. For long = term, > entry is pretty much a matter of your choice. Take DLX for example. = You > could have thrown a dart and entered it anywhere you wanted over the = past > nine months or so, and still have a respectable profit now. And = that's > despite slow growth, 1.1% earnings growth for 2001, 6% estimated for = this > year, and today's announcement they may earn up to 9.6% (WOW!!!) = this year. > > Ideally, with a LLUR pattern, you want to see 12 months of a = consistent > pattern without measurable volatility. The tighter the daily trading range, > the better. And you also need to have all the standard CANSLIM = elements in > place (RS, EPS, etc.). > > Tom Worley > stkguru@netside.net > AIM: TexWorley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob Miller" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:28 PM > Subject: [CANSLIM] Introduction > > > > Hello All, > > > > I subscribed a few weeks ago but thought I would listen for a = while before > > introducing myself. An interesting group. I'm not new to = investing or > > CANSLIM, though I did stray for a while. I became interested in = CANSLIM > > about six years ago. After practicing CANSLI (M seemed irrelevant = at that > > time) for a couple of years, I began to ignore fundamentals just = as the > > market ignored them. I am well versed in technicals and that = became the > > hallmark of my strategy for the last year of the bull market. = Somewhat > > coincidentally, I got out of the market in March 2000 just before = the > Nasdaq > > fell apart. The coindicence is that although I saw signs of a = market > top, > > I went to cash for a different reason...vacation. Yes the market = fell > apart > > while I was on vacation. I have been largely out of the market = ever > since, > > with only a few trades along the way. I had also just finished = college > and > > was at my new career for only 9 months at the time. I have since devoted > > more time to my career and less to personal investing. That has = all > changed > > now. Last week I quit my job. After almost three years as an investment > > analyst (primarily mutual funds and retirement accounts) at a = small > startup > > firm, I decided that the promise of higher pay in the future was = no longer > > enough. I said "show me the money," and they said "we don't have = any." > > Also, while mutual fund analysis is surpisingly challenging and = fun, my > real > > interest is in stocks. So here I am, investing full time, at = least > > temporarily. > > > > Now for a question. I tried to look this up in the archives, but = I can't > > get the archives to work. How does the LLUR chart pattern fit the CANSLIM > > mold and how do you adapt the entry and exit methods? I don't = recall ever > > hearing O'Neil mention this chart. Is this a generally accepted exception > > to the basic chart patterns that O'Neil promotes? It's an = intriguing > > pattern given the lack of good bases out there, though it seems to = go > > against the basic CANSLIM buying philosophy. > > > > Rob Miller > > > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1B463.6D52F600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Rob,
 
Welcome to the list, glad you're here!
 
I'll chime in to the discussion on LLUR, as I see it differently = than Tom.=20 I do not see LLUR as a base at all. Instead, I see it as a stock in an = uptrend=20 that happens to be printing a tight pattern that hugs an uptrending = moving=20 average (MA). This pattern can go on for quite some time as in the = case of=20 DLX. From a technical point of view, you would enter on pullbacks. = As with=20 all CANSLIM sell rules, once the stock breaks the top or bottom of the = channel,=20 this is a sell signal.
 
An ascending base, however, is a different animal. Say a stock is = in an=20 uptrend and then begins a consolidation period. Normally we expect that = to be a=20 flat base (>=3D5wks), cup & handle (C&H-->=3D7wks), saucer = &=20 handle (>=3D7wks), etc. The thing all these consolidation patterns = have in=20 common is that they primarily correct *below* the pause point where the=20 consolidation begins, then, indicate their readiness to move on a new = ascent by=20 breaking above the area of consolidation on volume. With an ascending = base=20 (>=3D6wks), the pattern of consolidation is different from these, = usually due=20 to choppy or sideways market conditions. What looks like a small ascent = is=20 instead an area of consolidation in which the stock tries several times = to=20 breakout unsuccessfully. In this case, the area of consolidation will = have a=20 slightly upward bias. On the third attempt, the stock, if successful, = will break=20 out of the pattern. In this case, the break in pattern is a *buy* rather = than=20 *sell* signal. 
 
As you've discovered, the list has plenty of acronyms used in = everyday=20 discussion. Here are some of the more common:
WON--William J. O'Neil
HTMMIS--How to Make Money In Stocks
B/O or BO--Breakout
MA--Moving Average
C&H or CwH--Cup and handle
TA--Technical Analysis
LLUR--lower left upper right
IBD--Invstor's Business Daily
DGO--DailyGraphs Online
WWW--Tom "Worley's Weekend Weeview" in which Tom deftly summarizes = market=20 conditions in 6 paragraphs or less.
 
Katherine
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rob=20 Miller
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, = 2002 7:24=20 AM
Subject: LLUR (Re: [CANSLIM]=20 Introduction)

Tom,

Thanks for answering my question.  It = seems=20 that LLUR is not a pattern, or
base, in the true sense of the = word. =20 How does it differ from a stock that
has been in a smooth = uptrend? =20 For example, a stock could break out from a
cup w/handle and rise = for=20 several months or more in a nice smooth uptrend.
Would this then be = considered an LLUR?  My impression is that this is a way
to = get into=20 to a stock that has either not formed a level base or has = been
rising=20 indefinitely from a prior breakout.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not = criticizing the use of this pattern.  In the
past, I've found = buying=20 an uptrending stock at the bottom of its channel to
be a good = method. =20 However, since I'm using CANSLIM as my primary method,
I'd like to = fully=20 understand how it fits in before I add it to my=20 arsenal.

Thanks,
Rob


----- Original Message=20 -----
From: "Tom Worley" <stkguru@netside.net>
To: = <canslim@lists.xmission.com= >
Sent:=20 Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:01 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM]=20 Introduction


> Hi Rob, and welcome to the = group.
>
>=20 The LLUR pattern was a contribution to this group by a former member=20 over
> three years ago. More recently, IBD discovered the = "ascending=20 base" which
> has similar definitions.
>
> Best way = to see=20 the "base" is by tilting your head about 45 degrees to the
> = left. =20 Entry and exit points depend on whether you are trying to=20 trade
short
> or long term. For short term, it's critical to = identify=20 the moving average
> which marks the lower and upper sides of = the=20 trading range. For long term,
> entry is pretty much a matter of = your=20 choice. Take DLX for example. You
> could have thrown a dart and = entered=20 it anywhere you wanted over the past
> nine months or so, and = still have=20 a respectable profit now. And that's
> despite slow growth, 1.1% = earnings growth for 2001, 6% estimated for this
> year, and = today's=20 announcement they may earn up to 9.6% (WOW!!!) = this
year.
>
>=20 Ideally, with a LLUR pattern, you want to see 12 months of a=20 consistent
> pattern without measurable volatility. The tighter = the=20 daily trading
range,
> the better. And you also need to have = all the=20 standard CANSLIM elements in
> place (RS, EPS, = etc.).
>
>=20 Tom Worley
> stkguru@netside.net
> = AIM:=20 TexWorley
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rob = Miller"=20 <rmiller2@carolina.rr.com>=
>=20 To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com= >
>=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:28 PM
> Subject: [CANSLIM]=20 Introduction
>
>
> > Hello All,
> = >
> >=20 I subscribed a few weeks ago but thought I would listen for a=20 while
before
> > introducing myself.  An interesting=20 group.  I'm not new to investing or
> > CANSLIM, though = I did=20 stray for a while.  I became interested in CANSLIM
> > = about six=20 years ago.  After practicing CANSLI (M seemed irrelevant=20 at
that
> > time) for a couple of years, I began to ignore = fundamentals just as the
> > market ignored them.  I am = well=20 versed in technicals and that became the
> > hallmark of my = strategy=20 for the last year of the bull market.  Somewhat
> >=20 coincidentally, I got out of the market in March 2000 just before = the
>=20 Nasdaq
> > fell apart.  The coindicence is that although = I=20 saw  signs of a market
> top,
> > I went to cash = for a=20 different reason...vacation.  Yes the market fell
> = apart
>=20 > while I was on vacation.  I have been largely out of the = market=20 ever
> since,
> > with only a few trades along the = way.  I=20 had also just finished college
> and
> > was at my new = career=20 for only 9 months at the time.  I have since
devoted
> = > more=20 time to my career and less to personal investing.  That has = all
>=20 changed
> > now.  Last week I quit my job.  After = almost=20 three years as an
investment
> > analyst (primarily mutual = funds=20 and retirement accounts) at a small
> startup
> > firm, = I=20 decided that the promise of higher pay in the future was = no
longer
>=20 > enough.  I said "show me the money," and they said "we don't = have=20 any."
> > Also, while mutual fund analysis is surpisingly = challenging=20 and fun, my
> real
> > interest is in stocks.  So = here I=20 am, investing full time, at least
> > temporarily.
>=20 >
> > Now for a question.  I tried to look this up in = the=20 archives, but I
can't
> > get the archives to work.  = How does=20 the LLUR chart pattern fit the
CANSLIM
> > mold and how do = you=20 adapt the entry and exit methods?  I don't recall
ever
> = >=20 hearing O'Neil mention this chart.  Is this a generally=20 accepted
exception
> > to the basic chart patterns that = O'Neil=20 promotes?  It's an intriguing
> > pattern given the lack = of good=20 bases out there, though it seems to go
> > against the basic = CANSLIM=20 buying philosophy.
> >
> > Rob Miller
> = >
>=20 >
> >
> > -
> > -To = subscribe/unsubscribe, email=20 "majordomo@xmission.com"
>= ;=20 > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
> >=20 -"unsubscribe canslim".  Do not use quotes in your email.
> = >
> >
>
>
>
> -
> -To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
>= ; -In=20 the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
> -"unsubscribe=20 canslim".  Do not use quotes in your = email.



-
-To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe = canslim".  Do=20 not use quotes in your email.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1B463.6D52F600-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:51:49 +0100 From: Andreas Himmelreich Subject: AW: [CANSLIM] Introduction Hello Rob, great to have you on the list !!! I did the same decistion in August (investing full time), so far with = only=20 mixed results, better then before, but not where I want to be. The problem for me was that I startet to look into new Strategies (like=20 Canslim, Vector Vest stuff, Mark Boucher Stuff), but had not a lot of experience with them. But I put my strategy book together and Canslim is only part of it, = since=20 it can not be applied to the market all the time since Canslim says stay in = cash=20 if the rally is broken (like now). Right now I am short on QQQ and on the Dax. The second problem is: Get your Psycho path right, because sooner or = later=20 you HAVE TO make money, otherwise your out of business. If you love to be what you are (full time=20 investor/trader), then this can build up a hell of a pressure at least that happened to me. Its much better now, but not=20 perfect. I do not wish you luck (not all the luck in the world lets you survive = in=20 the markets), but I wish you that you have your strategy in place and that you have the dicipline to apply it. Also have a look here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChasRichards/ and = here=20 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeadsUpModule/ if you want to get some good information about timing the market. Investor = Businss=20 Daily (www.investors.com) seems to time the market very well also. See you Andreas P.S. Just to let you know I live in Germany, so do not wonder about = really=20 scary hours I send emails ;-) > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Rob Miller [SMTP:rmiller2@carolina.rr.com] > Gesendet am: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:29 PM > An: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Betreff: [CANSLIM] Introduction > > Hello All, > > I subscribed a few weeks ago but thought I would listen for a while=20 before > introducing myself. An interesting group. I'm not new to investing = or > CANSLIM, though I did stray for a while. I became interested in = CANSLIM > about six years ago. After practicing CANSLI (M seemed irrelevant at=20 that > time) for a couple of years, I began to ignore fundamentals just as = the > market ignored them. I am well versed in technicals and that became = the > hallmark of my strategy for the last year of the bull market. = Somewhat > coincidentally, I got out of the market in March 2000 just before the=20 Nasdaq > fell apart. The coindicence is that although I saw signs of a market = top, > I went to cash for a different reason...vacation. Yes the market fell = apart > while I was on vacation. I have been largely out of the market ever=20 since, > with only a few trades along the way. I had also just finished = college=20 and > was at my new career for only 9 months at the time. I have since = devoted > more time to my career and less to personal investing. That has all=20 changed > now. Last week I quit my job. After almost three years as an = investment > analyst (primarily mutual funds and retirement accounts) at a small=20 startup > firm, I decided that the promise of higher pay in the future was no=20 longer > enough. I said "show me the money," and they said "we don't have = any." > Also, while mutual fund analysis is surpisingly challenging and fun, = my=20 real > interest is in stocks. So here I am, investing full time, at least > temporarily. > > Now for a question. I tried to look this up in the archives, but I = can't > get the archives to work. How does the LLUR chart pattern fit the=20 CANSLIM > mold and how do you adapt the entry and exit methods? I don't recall=20 ever > hearing O'Neil mention this chart. Is this a generally accepted=20 exception > to the basic chart patterns that O'Neil promotes? It's an intriguing > pattern given the lack of good bases out there, though it seems to go > against the basic CANSLIM buying philosophy. > > Rob Miller > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:08:53 EST From: Spencer48@aol.com Subject: [CANSLIM] Re:Cash Flow Tom: In your view how could cash-flow be less than earnings. I thought that cash-flow were earnings minus the non-cash-expense items on the income sheet (such as depreciation and goodwill amortization)? Also, could you be specific. I see some companies with interesting formations (MIMS for one) whose cash-flow is less than earnings. How is it possible to do this? Are the Accounts Receivable so high (ie. higher than all the non-cash-expenses added together) that the company doesn't realistically expect to be paid, but the earnings are booked anyway? jans - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:23:23 -0600 From: "Katherine Malm" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re:Cash Flow This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C1B489.3AAFBF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi jans, Just a cautionary note. If you are looking at DGO earnings numbers, = remember that they are *proforma* earnings. That means that certain one = time items my be added back to the GAAP earnings. The other thing to be = careful about is to make sure that you're comparing apples to apples. = The cash flow figures can be stated in terms of the fiscal year or the = trailing twelve months. (TTM). Make sure you're looking at cash flow and = EPS from the same periods. - --Katherine Here's some definitions and a link to the MIMS financials on Multex = Investor: =20 Cash Flow: = http://yahoo.marketguide.com/MGI/mg.asp?target=3D%2Fstocks%2Fcompanyinfor= mation%2Fcacheflow%2Facashflowstd&Ticker=3DMIMS Earnings: = http://yahoo.marketguide.com/MGI/mg.asp?target=3D%2Fstocks%2Fcompanyinfor= mation%2Fincomestmt%2Faincomestd&Ticker=3DMIMS Multex Investor Cash Flow Definitions: Cash Flow Per Share, TTM ($ per share)--This value is the trailing = twelve month Cash Flow divided by the trailing twelve month Average = Shares Outstanding. Cash Flow is defined as the sum of Income After = Taxes minus Preferred Dividends and General Partner Distributions plus = Depreciation, Depletion and Amortization. Cash From Financing--The sum of all the individual financing activity = cash flow line items. Cash From Investing--The sum of all the individual investing activity = cash flow line items. Cash From Operations --The sum of all the individual operating activity = cash flow line items.=20 Cash Per Share, Quarterly, MRQ ($ per share) --This is the Total Cash = plus Short Term Investments divided by the Shares Outstanding at the end = of the most recent fiscal quarter.=20 DGO Cash Flow Definition--CASH FLOW PER SHARE FROM OPERATIONS: Derived by adding depreciation, depletion and amortization to the = company's net income and dividing this figure by the shares outstanding. = Free Cash Flow = http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/glossary/glossary.asp?TermID=3D186 This is cash flow from operations minus capital expenditures minus cash = dividends paid -- at least in the view of some analysts. The truth is = that opinions differ about what constitutes ""free"" cash flow and how = - -- or whether -- it differs from conventional cash flow. The premise = behind backing out capital expenditures and dividends is that these are = optional and therefore should be set aside to see how much income a = company is really generating. The dividend could always be suspended, = after all, and even capital intensive firms can usually limp along for = awhile on reduced capital outlays. The goal is the same as with cash = flow: to look behind the smoke and mirrors sometimes associated with net = income. Cash Flow = http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/glossary/glossary.asp?TermID=3D65 Net income minus preferred dividends plus depreciation (as given in the = income statement). Generally speaking, cash flow is the best measure of = a company's profits, and is usually calculated by adding depreciation = and any other non-cash charges to earnings after taxes. Investors look = to cash flow for several reasons: because firms have accounting leeway = when it comes to reporting net income; because depreciation charges, = while substantial in many industries, aren't genuine bills that have to = be paid; and because cash flow is the key to a company's ability to pay = dividends, cover debts and so forth. Thus, some analysts focus on the = ratio of price to cash flow rather than the traditional price/earnings = (P/E) measure. Cash flow is especially useful in assessing firms in = capital intensive industries -- cable TV, for instance -- in which huge = depreciation charges can hide healthy profits. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Spencer48@aol.com=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:08 AM Subject: [CANSLIM] Re:Cash Flow Tom: =20 In your view how could cash-flow be less than earnings. I = thought that=20 cash-flow were earnings minus the non-cash-expense items on the income = sheet=20 (such as depreciation and goodwill amortization)? =20 Also, could you be specific. I see some companies with = interesting=20 formations (MIMS for one) whose cash-flow is less than earnings. How = is it=20 possible to do this? Are the Accounts Receivable so high (ie. higher = than=20 all the non-cash-expenses added together) that the company doesn't=20 realistically expect to be paid, but the earnings are booked anyway? jans - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C1B489.3AAFBF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi jans,
 
Just a cautionary note. If you are looking at DGO earnings numbers, = remember that they are *proforma* earnings. That means that certain one = time=20 items my be added back to the GAAP earnings. The other thing to be = careful about=20 is to make sure that you're comparing apples to apples. The cash flow = figures=20 can be stated in terms of the fiscal year or the trailing twelve months. = (TTM).=20 Make sure you're looking at cash flow and EPS from the same = periods.
 
--Katherine
 
Here's some definitions and a link to the MIMS financials on Multex = Investor:
 
Cash Flow: http://yahoo= .marketguide.com/MGI/mg.asp?target=3D%2Fstocks%2Fcompanyinformation%2Fcac= heflow%2Facashflowstd&Ticker=3DMIMS

Earnings: http://yahoo.= marketguide.com/MGI/mg.asp?target=3D%2Fstocks%2Fcompanyinformation%2Finco= mestmt%2Faincomestd&Ticker=3DMIMS

 Multex Investor=20 Cash Flow Definitions:

Cash Flow=20 Per Share, TTM ($ per share)--This value is the = trailing twelve=20 month Cash Flow divided by the trailing twelve month Average Shares = Outstanding.=20 Cash Flow is defined as the sum of Income After Taxes minus Preferred = Dividends=20 and General Partner Distributions plus Depreciation, Depletion and=20 Amortization.

 Cash From = Financing--The sum of all the = individual=20 financing activity cash flow line items.

Cash From=20 Investing--The sum of=20 all the individual investing activity cash flow line=20 items.

Cash From=20 Operations --The sum=20 of all the individual operating activity cash flow line items.=20

 Cash Per Share, = Quarterly, MRQ ($=20 per share) --This is=20 the Total Cash plus Short Term Investments divided by the Shares = Outstanding at=20 the end of the most recent fiscal quarter.

DGO Cash Flow Definition--CASH FLOW PER SHARE = FROM=20 OPERATIONS:
Derived by adding depreciation, depletion and = amortization to the=20 company's net income and dividing this figure by the shares outstanding. =

Free=20 Cash Flow  = http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/glossary/glossary.asp?TermID= =3D186

 This = is cash=20 flow from operations minus capital expenditures minus cash dividends = paid -- at=20 least in the view of some analysts. The truth is that opinions differ = about what=20 constitutes ""free"" cash flow and how -- or whether -- it differs from=20 conventional cash flow. The premise behind backing out capital = expenditures and=20 dividends is that these are optional and therefore should be set aside = to see=20 how much income a company is really generating. The dividend could = always be=20 suspended, after all, and even capital intensive firms can usually limp = along=20 for awhile on reduced capital outlays. The goal is the same as with cash = flow:=20 to look behind the smoke and mirrors sometimes associated with net = income.

Cash=20 Flow  http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/glossary/glossary.asp?TermID=3D= 65

Net=20 income minus preferred dividends plus depreciation (as given in the = income=20 statement). Generally speaking, cash flow is the best measure of a = company's=20 profits, and is usually calculated by adding depreciation and any other = non-cash=20 charges to earnings after taxes. Investors look to cash flow for several = reasons: because firms have accounting leeway when it comes to reporting = net=20 income; because depreciation charges, while substantial in many = industries,=20 aren't genuine bills that have to be paid; and because cash flow is the = key to a=20 company's ability to pay dividends, cover debts and so forth. Thus, some = analysts focus on the ratio of price to cash flow rather than the = traditional=20 price/earnings (P/E) measure. Cash flow is especially useful in = assessing firms=20 in capital intensive industries -- cable TV, for instance -- in which = huge=20 depreciation charges can hide healthy profits.

 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Spencer48@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, = 2002 11:08=20 AM
Subject: [CANSLIM] Re:Cash = Flow

Tom: 

     In your = view how=20 could cash-flow be less than earnings.  I thought that =
cash-flow were=20 earnings minus the non-cash-expense items on the income sheet =
(such as=20 depreciation and goodwill amortization)? =20

     Also, could you be specific.  I = see some=20 companies with interesting
formations (MIMS for one) whose = cash-flow is=20 less than  earnings.  How is it
possible to do = this?  Are=20 the Accounts Receivable so high (ie. higher than
all the = non-cash-expenses=20 added together) that the company doesn't
realistically expect to = be paid,=20 but the earnings are booked anyway?

jans

-
-To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe = canslim".  Do=20 not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C1B489.3AAFBF00-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #2119 ****************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.