From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #2707 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Thursday, August 1 2002 Volume 02 : Number 2707 In this issue: RE: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) Re: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:12:12 -0600 From: "David Taggart" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C23943.E7235640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is another site that has pretty good educational content. http://stockcharts.com/education/What/ChartAnalysis/index.html Here is another link to an article on the Myth of Buy and Hold. It does a good job of debunking some of the crap that mutual funds use in their advertise the "if you miss the 5 best days of the year" http://www.tamingthebear.com/mythbuyhold.doc -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Katherine Malm Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 10:08 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) Hi Nancy, Your email reminded me of the way I felt when I first started reading technicals. A confirmed fundamentalist, I thought it was a bunch of hooey. Despite reading example after example, I *still* had trouble understanding what the heck the author was describing. What I've found over time however is that chart reading is a lot like any other expertise. Practice, practice, practice and what was once awkward, seemingly random and inexplicable becomes second nature. I've read before that intuition is simply the ability to draw from a store of knowledge and experience without conscious effort. Practice will build a store of knowledge; investing, making mistakes and performing post-analysis will build experience. I still keep a practice binder, as the learning seems never to end. You might try randomly selecting a couple of stocks a day, mark the charts according to what you know, then go back to the charts at the end of a couple of weeks, a couple of months, a couple of years. Remark the chart each time with your new eyes and learn *again* what you thought you already knew. Here's some good references for basic chart reading: How Charts Can Help You in the Stock Market by William L. Jiler Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets by Stan Weinstein Course 1 in the IBD Learning Center on our Web site has a lesson on chart reading. To get there directly, go to this link - http://www.investors.com/learn/B09.asp Also, go to the Investor's Corner archive entitled “What Can Technical Indicators Tell Me?” to view past articles on this topic - http://www.investors.com/learn/IC.asp#tech The“Ask Bill O’Neil” archive offers a compilation of Q&A’s on the subject of chart reading at this link - http://www.investors.com/askBill/Search_ByTopic.asp?TopicID=5 For more detailed information on pivot points go to this link - http://www.investors.com/learn/ICtech21.asp Keep after it, Katherine "It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at best, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." --Theodore Roosevelt ----- Original Message ----- From: zillagirl To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) Thanks for your response. referring to your last line-don't obsess about the whys but the hows, I don't think I am obsessing-I just am not getting the charts. I see it when someone explains "look at volume on this day and what happened to the chart" or "its churning" or "you should have anticipated the drop by the chart action" but when I look by myself at it I am not seeing it. I thought if I put it out to the group, someone could tell me what helped them to understand this better. I guess not. I thought if I understood what was happening in the market better to make the action happen(as I do with a cup and handle) I'd see more in the charts. Maybe not. It's just frustrating but thank you for trying to help. Nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: Katherine Malm To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) I don't see the discussion of LNOP as off-topic, instead I see it as an opportunity to practice the CANSLIM discipline. I've always believed that what you *don't* buy is often more important than what you *do* buy. Part of knowing what's worthy of an investment with your risk capital is to have a disciplined approach to evaluating each potential investment, and the CANSLIM list is a good place to practice. Following that discipline without exception makes the difference between OK and excellent returns, because that methodical process eliminates every emotional dark turn from your decision making. While it may seem that folks will post nothing but negative about a particular stock, it's important to have a methodology that weighs the pros and cons and then gives you a process to determine if the final weight is favorable given the risk/reward tradeoff. In the end, there's not a single investment decision that won't have odds. You stack those odds in your favor as best you can and then take the plunge. But.....odds also imply that, even if you've followed a discipline to the letter, there's *still* a chance that it will work against you. Discipline then takes over when you are forced to let go and move on to an alternative. While were talking psychology, I'll just answer your question about "the mass investor thing" by saying that it is more important to know what *is* than *why* it is. Chart patterns are formed because folks on the way up have differing objectives. Some have been in for a while and are simply taking their profits and moving on to another investment, some are taking money out of the stock because they know something about the business/company/industry/market that others haven't yet perceived, still others are fearful that they'll miss the boat or that they'll lose their profits if they overstay their welcome. That causes a correction of some sort. If there is another group of investors willing to step up to the plate, then the stock will form some sort of consolidation, set up and keep moving on. If there is not, then the stock falls. I wouldn't obsess about the why's, just the how-to's. Katherine ----- Original Message ----- From: zillagirl To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) Thank you Katherine-that's why I went off topic. He requested opinions earlier and it interested me so I gave one. Is this o.k., to go off topic or is it necessary to word it in a canslim type format as you did? Also could I request your opinion on something. I sent a post this morning about a W chart-I believe you sent the chart through. The charts and volume thing is driving me nuts because I'm not seeing it. I saw a run up and a shake out - a run up and a shake out. Do you have any advice or thoughts as to why and what to do-or do you see the same thing at all? I don't understand the mass investor thing that makes a W or triple bottom happen like I do the cup with a handle. I was hoping to get a response but didn't, because I'm frustrated by it. But if no thoughts on how to help, appreciate your time. Thanks Nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: Katherine Malm To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:42 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) Donald & Nancy, Here are the only facts you need to see this is a stinky stock... Cashflow NEGATIVE Earnings NEGATIVE (never had a positive year) Growth in Sales NEGATIVE RS 42 and DECLINING Price LESS THAN 50 and 200 day moving averages Research is one thing if you want to be "in the know" on a technology with "potential"....but the only way to make (and keep) real money over the long run is to stick to a discipline and this stock meets absolutely zero CANSLIM criteria. If this were a short term trading forum, then we'd be having an different discussion about an entirely different discipline. Katherine ----- Original Message ----- From: zillagirl To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Tomorrow -off topic Donald-I did a little checking on LNOP when I read your post. I am always interested in new products and in some cases will buy in and wait for the business to develop and the fundamentals to improve, to buy low. Apparently EZ Chip won the award for the most highly integrated 10 Gigabit network processor. This company is a subsidiary of Lan Optics(semi conductor company). Lan optics holding in EZ Chip was just increased from 57% to 66 % by issuing Apax-a venture capitalist co. who held the shares- 1.2 million newly issued shares of Lan Optics, for their additional stake. The EZ Chip is suppose to save time and money of up to 80%. I have three things that kept me from going further and checking acc.-roe-rs etc. 1).Possible dilution of Lan Optic share by 1.2 million. 2) They are not anticipating sales to affect revenues for apx. 1 year. 3) Semis not shining lately .I appreciate your bringing it to my attention and I will follow it , but I think with the market like it is there may be a better buy in opportunity closer to when company starts to grow from the new product. But I could be just as wrong as right. I got my research from T.D. Waterhouse web site. Good Luck with it. nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Wallker To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Tomorrow I'm so glad to hear from someone in the thick of things that tells me that emotions, rather than hide-bound calculations ,rule the day in the market. In truth, I'd rather take a risk, based on the sentiment of the marketplace together with some reasonable input, than to always hang my hat on CANSLIM. For example, early this morning I came within a hair of buying into AYE, not because I thought it was a great investment but because, at the opening bell it was paying close to %10 in dividends and I knew in my heart that that would not last. Rather, I thought I could easily take a %10 to %15 profit by buying early and selling late today, since, no doubt, the brokers would be pushing the stock. As it turned out, the ere was more that %10 invloved However, I found a potentially more favorable, but admittedly longer term investment, that is, LNOP. for less that its closing price. I'd rather run a risk for a %500 gain than c\to ontinuously rake in %10 plus gains. It's all a matter of perspective ------ Donald ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Richards To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Tomorrow Heck, it was just the wise guys pushing the market up at the end. Check the volume. Today was month end and they were trying to pretty up things. The turnaround looks very suspicious from my perspective particularly as almost all of the recent ones have occurred after 3 p.m. in NY including this one. For me, I'll look at what the overseas markets are doing and the pre-market NASDAQ indicator before getting too excited. Further more, they were substantially more new lows than new highs for both the NYSE and the NASDAQ. But emotions, not facts, rule markets even among the big players. -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Donald Wallker Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:06 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: [CANSLIM] Tomorrow "Tomorrow, tomorrow, there's always tomorrow, it's only a day away." And I suspect that it will be a be a Bull day tomorrow given the turn-around in todays trading. At this writing we are not yet closed, but we are far, far up from today's earlier market weakness, which normally bodes well for tomorrow. So-- to everyone in the Group i bid you a Happy Tomorrow! - - Donald - ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C23943.E7235640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here=20 is another site that has pretty good educational = content.
h= ttp://stockcharts.com/education/What/ChartAnalysis/index.html<= /DIV>
 
Here=20 is another link to an article on the Myth of Buy and Hold.  It does = a good=20 job of debunking some of the crap that mutual funds use in their = advertise the=20 "if you miss the 5 best days of the year"
http://www.tamingth= ebear.com/mythbuyhold.doc
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Katherine = Malm
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 10:08 AM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was = Tomorrow=20 -off topic)

Hi Nancy,
 
Your email reminded me of the way I felt when I first started = reading=20 technicals. A confirmed fundamentalist, I thought it was a bunch of = hooey.=20 Despite reading example after example, I *still* had trouble = understanding=20 what the heck the author was describing. What I've found over time = however is=20 that chart reading is a lot like any other expertise. Practice, = practice,=20 practice and what was once awkward, seemingly random and inexplicable = becomes=20 second nature. I've read before that intuition is simply the ability = to draw=20 from a store of knowledge and experience without conscious effort. = Practice=20 will build a store of knowledge; investing, making mistakes and = performing=20 post-analysis will build experience. I still keep a practice binder, = as the=20 learning seems never to end. You might try randomly selecting a = couple of=20  stocks a day, mark the charts according to what you know, then = go back=20 to the charts at the end of a couple of weeks, a couple of months, a = couple of=20 years. Remark the chart each time with your new eyes and learn *again* = what=20 you thought you already knew.
 
Here's some good references for basic chart reading:
How Charts Can Help You in the Stock Market by William L.=20 Jiler
Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets by Stan = Weinstein
 
Course 1 in the IBD Learning Center on our Web site has a lesson = on chart=20 reading. To get there directly, go to this link - http://www.investors.com/learn/B09.asp =
Also, go=20 to the Investor's Corner archive entitled =93What Can Technical = Indicators Tell=20 Me?=94 to view past articles on this topic - http://www.investors.com/learn/IC.asp#tech=20
The=93Ask Bill O=92Neil=94 archive offers a compilation of = Q&A=92s on the=20 subject of chart reading at this link - = http://www.investors.com/askBill/Search_ByTopic.asp?Topic= ID=3D5=20
For more detailed information on pivot points go to this link - http://www.investors.com/learn/ICtech21.asp
 
Keep after it,
Katherine
 
"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how = the=20 strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done them = better.=20 The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face = is=20 marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs = and comes=20 short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great = devotions,=20 and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at best, knows the triumph = of high=20 achievement; and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while = daring=20 greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid = souls who=20 know neither victory nor defeat." --Theodore Roosevelt
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 zillagirl
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Thursday, August 01, = 2002 10:45=20 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] LNOP = (was=20 Tomorrow -off topic)

Thanks for your response. referring = to your=20 last line-don't obsess about the whys but the hows, I don't = think I am=20 obsessing-I just am not getting the charts.  I see it when = someone=20 explains "look at volume on this day and what happened to the = chart" =20 or "its churning" or "you should have anticipated the drop by the = chart=20 action" but when I look by myself at it I am not seeing = it.  I=20 thought if I put it out to the group, someone could tell me what = helped them=20 to understand this better.  I guess not.  I thought if I=20 understood what was happening in the market better to make the = action=20 happen(as I do with a cup and handle) I'd see more in the = charts. =20 Maybe not.  It's just frustrating but thank you for trying to=20 help.  Nancy
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Katherine=20 Malm
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Thursday, August 01, = 2002 6:20=20 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] LNOP = (was=20 Tomorrow -off topic)

I don't see the discussion of LNOP as off-topic, instead I = see it as=20 an opportunity to practice the CANSLIM discipline. I've always = believed=20 that what you *don't* buy is often more important than what you = *do* buy.=20 Part of knowing what's worthy of an investment with your risk = capital is=20 to have a disciplined approach to evaluating each potential = investment,=20 and the CANSLIM list is a good place to practice. Following that=20 discipline without exception makes the difference between OK and = excellent=20 returns, because that methodical process eliminates every = emotional dark=20 turn from your decision making. While it may seem that folks will = post=20 nothing but negative about a particular stock, it's important to = have a=20 methodology that weighs the pros and cons and then gives you a = process to=20 determine if the final weight is favorable given the risk/reward = tradeoff.=20 In the end, there's not a single investment decision that won't = have odds.=20 You stack those odds in your favor as best you can and then take = the=20 plunge. But.....odds also imply that, even if you've followed a = discipline=20 to the letter, there's *still* a chance that it will work against = you.=20 Discipline then takes over when you are forced to let go and move = on to an=20 alternative.
 
While were talking psychology, I'll just answer your question = about=20 "the mass investor thing" by saying that it is more important to = know what=20 *is* than *why* it is. Chart patterns are formed because folks on = the way=20 up have differing objectives. Some have been in for a while and = are simply=20 taking their profits and moving on to another investment, some are = taking=20 money out of the stock because they know something about the=20 business/company/industry/market that others haven't yet = perceived, still=20 others are fearful that they'll miss the boat or that they'll lose = their=20 profits if they overstay their welcome. That causes a correction = of some=20 sort. If there is another group of investors willing to step up to = the=20 plate, then the stock will form some sort of consolidation, set up = and=20 keep moving on. If there is not, then the stock falls. I wouldn't = obsess=20 about the why's, just the how-to's.
 
Katherine
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 zillagirl
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, = 2002 6:04=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] = LNOP (was=20 Tomorrow -off topic)

Thank you Katherine-that's why = I went off=20 topic. He requested opinions earlier and it interested me so I = gave one.=20 Is this o.k., to go off topic or  is it necessary to word = it in a=20 canslim type format as you did?  Also could I request your = opinion=20 on something. I sent a post this morning about a W chart-I = believe you=20 sent the chart through.  The charts and volume thing is = driving me=20 nuts because I'm not seeing it.  I saw a run up and a shake = out - a=20 run up and a shake out.  Do you have any advice or thoughts = as to=20 why and what to do-or do you see the same thing at all? I = don't=20 understand the mass investor thing that makes a W or triple = bottom=20 happen like I do the cup with a handle. I was hoping to get a=20 response but didn't, because I'm frustrated by it. But if = no=20 thoughts on how to help, appreciate your time.  Thanks=20 Nancy
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Katherine Malm
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Wednesday, July = 31, 2002=20 3:42 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] LNOP = (was=20 Tomorrow -off topic)

Donald & Nancy,
 
Here are the only facts you need to see this is a stinky=20 stock...
 
Cashflow NEGATIVE
Earnings NEGATIVE (never had a positive year)
Growth in Sales NEGATIVE
RS 42 and DECLINING
Price LESS THAN 50 and 200 day moving averages
 
Research is one thing if you want to be "in the know" on = a=20 technology with "potential"....but the only way to make (and = keep)=20 real money over the long run is to stick to a discipline and = this=20 stock meets absolutely zero CANSLIM criteria. If this = were a=20 short term trading forum, then we'd be having an different = discussion=20 about an entirely different discipline.
 
Katherine
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 zillagirl
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Wednesday, July = 31, 2002=20 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: = [CANSLIM] Tomorrow=20 -off topic

Donald-I did a little = checking on LNOP=20 when I read your post. I am always interested in new = products and in=20 some cases will buy in and wait for the business to develop = and the=20 fundamentals to improve, to buy low. Apparently EZ Chip = won the=20 award for the most highly integrated 10 Gigabit network=20 processor.  This company is a subsidiary of Lan = Optics(semi=20 conductor company). Lan optics holding in EZ Chip was just = increased=20 from 57% to 66 % by issuing Apax-a venture capitalist co. = who held=20 the shares- 1.2 million newly issued shares of Lan Optics, = for their=20 additional stake. The EZ Chip is suppose to save time and = money of=20 up to 80%.  I have three things that kept me from = going=20 further and checking acc.-roe-rs etc. 1).Possible dilution = of Lan=20 Optic share by 1.2 million.      2) = They=20 are not anticipating sales to affect revenues for apx. 1 = year.=20 3)  Semis not shining lately .I appreciate your = bringing it to=20 my attention and I will follow it , but I think with the = market like=20 it is there may be a better buy in opportunity closer to = when=20 company starts to grow from the new product. But I = could be=20 just as wrong as right. I got my research from T.D. = Waterhouse web=20 site.  Good Luck with it.  nancy
----- Original Message = - -----
From:=20 Donald=20 Wallker
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Wednesday, = July 31,=20 2002 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: = [CANSLIM]=20 Tomorrow

I'm so glad to hear from = someone in=20 the thick of things that tells me that emotions,=20 rather  than  hide-bound  calculations = ,rule=20 the day in the market.  In truth, I'd rather take a = risk,=20 based on the sentiment of the marketplace together with = some=20 reasonable input, than to always hang my hat on=20 CANSLIM.   For example, early this morning =  I came=20 within a hair of buying into AYE, not because I thought it = was a=20 great investment but because, at the opening bell it was=20 paying close to %10  in dividends and  I = knew in my=20 heart that that would not last.  Rather, I thought I = could=20 easily take a %10 to %15 profit  by buying early and = selling=20 late today, since, no doubt, the brokers would be pushing = the=20 stock.  As it turned out, the ere was more that = %10 =20 invloved  However,  I found a potentially=20 more favorable,  but admittedly longer term = investment,=20 that is, LNOP. for less that its closing price. I'd rather = run a=20 risk for a %500 gain than c\to ontinuously rake in %10 = plus=20 gains.  It's all a matter of=20 perspective ------ Donald
----- Original Message = - -----=20
From:=20 Fred=20 Richards
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Wednesday, = July 31,=20 2002 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: = [CANSLIM]=20 Tomorrow

Heck, it was just the wise guys = pushing the=20 market up at the end. Check the volume. Today was month = end and=20 they were trying to pretty up things. The = turnaround looks=20 very suspicious from my perspective particularly as = almost all=20 of the recent ones have occurred after 3 p.m. in NY = including=20 this one.
 
For me, I'll look at what the = overseas=20 markets are doing and the pre-market NASDAQ indicator = before=20 getting too excited. Further more, they were = substantially more=20 new lows than new highs for both the NYSE and the = NASDAQ.=20
 
But emotions, not facts, rule = markets even=20 among the big players.
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf = Of=20 Donald Wallker
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, = 2002=20 3:06 PM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: = [CANSLIM]=20 Tomorrow

"Tomorrow, tomorrow, = there's=20 always tomorrow, it's only a day away."  And =  I=20 suspect that it will be a be a Bull day tomorrow given = the=20 turn-around in todays trading.  At this writing = we are=20 not yet closed, but we are far, far up = from today's=20   earlier market weakness, which normally bodes = well for=20 tomorrow.  So-- to everyone in the Group i = bid you a=20  Happy Tomorrow! - -=20 = Donald 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C23943.E7235640-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:36:33 -0400 From: "Donald Wallker" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C23958.11D963C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageDuke ----In the same vein (tongue in cheek) I at one to thought = of sending out a general e-mail giving everyone my home address and = telling them it was their last chance to send me $10.00. Unfortunately = that's illegal, but I 'd have probably gotten a ton of mail. ----HMMM? = - ----Donald.. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Duke Miller=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:23 AM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) I am starting a new company, folks. Don't ask me what it's going to = make, because I don't yet know. I have no clue what it's going to sell. = I don't know where it's going to be located. All I know is that, even = without a pro forma to show them, I'll have an unlimited amount of = venture capitalists begging me to take their money. All I have to do is = convince Katherine to be my CEO! You're something else! Duke -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Malm Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 9:20 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) I don't see the discussion of LNOP as off-topic, instead I see it as = an opportunity to practice the CANSLIM discipline. I've always believed = that what you *don't* buy is often more important than what you *do* = buy. Part of knowing what's worthy of an investment with your risk = capital is to have a disciplined approach to evaluating each potential = investment, and the CANSLIM list is a good place to practice. Following = that discipline without exception makes the difference between OK and = excellent returns, because that methodical process eliminates every = emotional dark turn from your decision making. While it may seem that = folks will post nothing but negative about a particular stock, it's = important to have a methodology that weighs the pros and cons and then = gives you a process to determine if the final weight is favorable given = the risk/reward tradeoff. In the end, there's not a single investment = decision that won't have odds. You stack those odds in your favor as = best you can and then take the plunge. But.....odds also imply that, = even if you've followed a discipline to the letter, there's *still* a = chance that it will work against you. Discipline then takes over when = you are forced to let go and move on to an alternative. While were talking psychology, I'll just answer your question about = "the mass investor thing" by saying that it is more important to know = what *is* than *why* it is. Chart patterns are formed because folks on = the way up have differing objectives. Some have been in for a while and = are simply taking their profits and moving on to another investment, = some are taking money out of the stock because they know something about = the business/company/industry/market that others haven't yet perceived, = still others are fearful that they'll miss the boat or that they'll lose = their profits if they overstay their welcome. That causes a correction = of some sort. If there is another group of investors willing to step up = to the plate, then the stock will form some sort of consolidation, set = up and keep moving on. If there is not, then the stock falls. I wouldn't = obsess about the why's, just the how-to's. Katherine ----- Original Message -----=20 From: zillagirl=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) Thank you Katherine-that's why I went off topic. He requested = opinions earlier and it interested me so I gave one. Is this o.k., to go = off topic or is it necessary to word it in a canslim type format as you = did? Also could I request your opinion on something. I sent a post this = morning about a W chart-I believe you sent the chart through. The = charts and volume thing is driving me nuts because I'm not seeing it. I = saw a run up and a shake out - a run up and a shake out. Do you have = any advice or thoughts as to why and what to do-or do you see the same = thing at all? I don't understand the mass investor thing that makes a W = or triple bottom happen like I do the cup with a handle. I was hoping to = get a response but didn't, because I'm frustrated by it. But if no = thoughts on how to help, appreciate your time. Thanks Nancy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Katherine Malm=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:42 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic) Donald & Nancy, Here are the only facts you need to see this is a stinky = stock... Cashflow NEGATIVE Earnings NEGATIVE (never had a positive year) Growth in Sales NEGATIVE RS 42 and DECLINING Price LESS THAN 50 and 200 day moving averages Research is one thing if you want to be "in the know" on a = technology with "potential"....but the only way to make (and keep) real = money over the long run is to stick to a discipline and this stock meets = absolutely zero CANSLIM criteria. If this were a short term trading = forum, then we'd be having an different discussion about an entirely = different discipline. Katherine ----- Original Message -----=20 From: zillagirl=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Tomorrow -off topic Donald-I did a little checking on LNOP when I read your post. = I am always interested in new products and in some cases will buy in and = wait for the business to develop and the fundamentals to improve, to buy = low. Apparently EZ Chip won the award for the most highly integrated 10 = Gigabit network processor. This company is a subsidiary of Lan = Optics(semi conductor company). Lan optics holding in EZ Chip was just = increased from 57% to 66 % by issuing Apax-a venture capitalist co. who = held the shares- 1.2 million newly issued shares of Lan Optics, for = their additional stake. The EZ Chip is suppose to save time and money of = up to 80%. I have three things that kept me from going further and = checking acc.-roe-rs etc. 1).Possible dilution of Lan Optic share by 1.2 = million. 2) They are not anticipating sales to affect revenues for = apx. 1 year. 3) Semis not shining lately .I appreciate your bringing it = to my attention and I will follow it , but I think with the market like = it is there may be a better buy in opportunity closer to when company = starts to grow from the new product. But I could be just as wrong as = right. I got my research from T.D. Waterhouse web site. Good Luck with = it. nancy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Donald Wallker=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Tomorrow=20 I'm so glad to hear from someone in the thick of things that = tells me that emotions, rather than hide-bound calculations ,rule the = day in the market. In truth, I'd rather take a risk, based on the = sentiment of the marketplace together with some reasonable input, than = to always hang my hat on CANSLIM. For example, early this morning I = came within a hair of buying into AYE, not because I thought it was a = great investment but because, at the opening bell it was paying close to = %10 in dividends and I knew in my heart that that would not last. = Rather, I thought I could easily take a %10 to %15 profit by buying = early and selling late today, since, no doubt, the brokers would be = pushing the stock. As it turned out, the ere was more that %10 = invloved However, I found a potentially more favorable, but = admittedly longer term investment, that is, LNOP. for less that its = closing price. I'd rather run a risk for a %500 gain than c\to = ontinuously rake in %10 plus gains. It's all a matter of perspective = - ------ Donald=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Fred Richards=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Tomorrow=20 Heck, it was just the wise guys pushing the market up at = the end. Check the volume. Today was month end and they were trying to = pretty up things. The turnaround looks very suspicious from my = perspective particularly as almost all of the recent ones have occurred = after 3 p.m. in NY including this one. For me, I'll look at what the overseas markets are doing = and the pre-market NASDAQ indicator before getting too excited. Further = more, they were substantially more new lows than new highs for both the = NYSE and the NASDAQ.=20 But emotions, not facts, rule markets even among the big = players. -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Donald Wallker Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:06 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: [CANSLIM] Tomorrow=20 "Tomorrow, tomorrow, there's always tomorrow, it's only = a day away." And I suspect that it will be a be a Bull day tomorrow = given the turn-around in todays trading. At this writing we are not yet = closed, but we are far, far up from today's earlier market weakness, = which normally bodes well for tomorrow. So-- to everyone in the Group i = bid you a Happy Tomorrow! - - Donald=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C23958.11D963C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Duke ----In the same vein (tongue in = cheek) I at=20 one to thought of sending out a general e-mail giving everyone my home = address=20 and telling them it was their last chance to send me $10.00.  = Unfortunately=20 that's illegal, but I 'd have probably gotten a ton of mail.=20 - ----HMMM?   ----Donald..    
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Duke=20 Miller
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 = 11:23=20 AM
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] LNOP = (was Tomorrow=20 -off topic)

I am starting a new company, folks. =  Don't ask=20 me what it's going to make, because I don't yet know.  I have no = clue=20 what it's going to sell.  I don't know where it's going to be=20 located.   All I = know is that,=20 even without a pro forma to show them, I'll have an unlimited = amount of=20 venture capitalists begging me to take their money.  All I = have to=20 do is convince Katherine to be my CEO!
 
You're = something=20 else!
 
Duke
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]=20 On Behalf Of Katherine Malm
Sent: Thursday, August = 01, 2002=20 9:20 AM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: = Re:=20 [CANSLIM] LNOP (was Tomorrow -off topic)

I don't see the discussion of LNOP as off-topic, instead I see = it as an=20 opportunity to practice the CANSLIM discipline. I've always believed = that=20 what you *don't* buy is often more important than what you *do* buy. = Part of=20 knowing what's worthy of an investment with your risk capital is to = have a=20 disciplined approach to evaluating each potential investment, and = the=20 CANSLIM list is a good place to practice. Following that discipline = without=20 exception makes the difference between OK and excellent returns, = because=20 that methodical process eliminates every emotional dark turn from = your=20 decision making. While it may seem that folks will post nothing but = negative=20 about a particular stock, it's important to have a methodology that = weighs=20 the pros and cons and then gives you a process to determine if the = final=20 weight is favorable given the risk/reward tradeoff. In the end, = there's not=20 a single investment decision that won't have odds. You stack those = odds in=20 your favor as best you can and then take the plunge. But.....odds = also imply=20 that, even if you've followed a discipline to the letter, there's = *still* a=20 chance that it will work against you. Discipline then takes over = when you=20 are forced to let go and move on to an alternative.
 
While were talking psychology, I'll just answer your question = about=20 "the mass investor thing" by saying that it is more important to = know what=20 *is* than *why* it is. Chart patterns are formed because folks on = the way up=20 have differing objectives. Some have been in for a while and are = simply=20 taking their profits and moving on to another investment, some are = taking=20 money out of the stock because they know something about the=20 business/company/industry/market that others haven't yet perceived, = still=20 others are fearful that they'll miss the boat or that they'll lose = their=20 profits if they overstay their welcome. That causes a correction of = some=20 sort. If there is another group of investors willing to step up to = the=20 plate, then the stock will form some sort of consolidation, set up = and keep=20 moving on. If there is not, then the stock falls. I wouldn't obsess = about=20 the why's, just the how-to's.
 
Katherine
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 zillagirl
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, = 2002 6:04=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] LNOP = (was=20 Tomorrow -off topic)

Thank you Katherine-that's why I = went off=20 topic. He requested opinions earlier and it interested me so I = gave one.=20 Is this o.k., to go off topic or  is it necessary to word it = in a=20 canslim type format as you did?  Also could I request your = opinion on=20 something. I sent a post this morning about a W chart-I believe = you sent=20 the chart through.  The charts and volume thing is driving me = nuts=20 because I'm not seeing it.  I saw a run up and a shake out - = a run up=20 and a shake out.  Do you have any advice or thoughts as to = why and=20 what to do-or do you see the same thing at all? I don't = understand=20 the mass investor thing that makes a W or triple bottom = happen like I=20 do the cup with a handle. I was hoping to get a response but = didn't,=20 because I'm frustrated by it. But if no thoughts on how to help,=20 appreciate your time.  Thanks Nancy
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Katherine=20 Malm
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, = 2002 3:42=20 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] LNOP = (was=20 Tomorrow -off topic)

Donald & Nancy,
 
Here are the only facts you need to see this is a stinky=20 stock...
 
Cashflow NEGATIVE
Earnings NEGATIVE (never had a positive year)
Growth in Sales NEGATIVE
RS 42 and DECLINING
Price LESS THAN 50 and 200 day moving averages
 
Research is one thing if you want to be "in the know" on a=20 technology with "potential"....but the only way to make (and = keep) real=20 money over the long run is to stick to a discipline and this = stock meets=20 absolutely zero CANSLIM criteria. If this were a short term = trading=20 forum, then we'd be having an different discussion about an = entirely=20 different discipline.
 
Katherine
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 zillagirl
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Wednesday, July = 31, 2002=20 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] = Tomorrow=20 -off topic

Donald-I did a little = checking on LNOP=20 when I read your post. I am always interested in new products = and in=20 some cases will buy in and wait for the business to develop = and the=20 fundamentals to improve, to buy low. Apparently EZ Chip = won the=20 award for the most highly integrated 10 Gigabit network=20 processor.  This company is a subsidiary of Lan = Optics(semi=20 conductor company). Lan optics holding in EZ Chip was just = increased=20 from 57% to 66 % by issuing Apax-a venture capitalist co. who = held the=20 shares- 1.2 million newly issued shares of Lan Optics, for = their=20 additional stake. The EZ Chip is suppose to save time and = money of up=20 to 80%.  I have three things that kept me from going = further=20 and checking acc.-roe-rs etc. 1).Possible dilution of Lan = Optic share=20 by 1.2 million.      2) They are not=20 anticipating sales to affect revenues for apx. 1 year. = 3)  Semis=20 not shining lately .I appreciate your bringing it to my = attention and=20 I will follow it , but I think with the market like it is = there may be=20 a better buy in opportunity closer to when company starts to = grow from=20 the new product. But I could be just as wrong as right. I = got my=20 research from T.D. Waterhouse web site.  Good Luck with = it. =20 nancy
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Donald=20 Wallker
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Wednesday, July = 31, 2002=20 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: = [CANSLIM] Tomorrow=20

I'm so glad to hear from = someone in the=20 thick of things that tells me that emotions, = rather  than=20  hide-bound  calculations ,rule the day in the=20 market.  In truth, I'd rather take a risk, based on the = sentiment of the marketplace together with some reasonable = input,=20 than to always hang my hat on CANSLIM.   For = example,=20 early this morning  I came within a hair of buying into = AYE,=20 not because I thought it was a great investment but because, = at the=20 opening bell it was paying close to %10  in = dividends and=20  I knew in my heart that that would not last.  = Rather, I=20 thought I could easily take a %10 to %15 profit  by = buying=20 early and selling late today, since, no doubt, the brokers = would be=20 pushing the stock.  As it turned out, the ere was more = that=20 %10  invloved  However,  I found a = potentially=20 more favorable,  but admittedly longer term = investment,=20 that is, LNOP. for less that its closing price. I'd rather = run a=20 risk for a %500 gain than c\to ontinuously rake in %10 plus=20 gains.  It's all a matter of=20 perspective ------ Donald
----- Original Message = - -----
From:=20 Fred=20 Richards
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Wednesday, = July 31,=20 2002 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: = [CANSLIM]=20 Tomorrow

Heck, it was just the wise guys pushing the = market up at=20 the end. Check the volume. Today was month end and they = were=20 trying to pretty up things. The turnaround looks very = suspicious from my perspective particularly as almost all = of the=20 recent ones have occurred after 3 p.m. in NY including = this=20 one.
 
For me, I'll look at what the overseas markets = are doing=20 and the pre-market NASDAQ indicator before getting too = excited.=20 Further more, they were substantially more new lows than = new highs=20 for both the NYSE and the NASDAQ.
 
But emotions, not facts, rule markets even among = the big=20 players.
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of = Donald Wallker
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, = 2002 3:06=20 PM
To: = canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject:=20 [CANSLIM] Tomorrow

"Tomorrow, tomorrow, = there's always=20 tomorrow, it's only a day away."  And  I = suspect that=20 it will be a be a Bull day tomorrow given the = turn-around in=20 todays trading.  At this writing we are not yet = closed, but=20 we are far, far up from today's   earlier = market=20 weakness, which normally bodes well for tomorrow.  = So-- to=20 everyone in the Group i bid you a  Happy = Tomorrow! - -=20 = Donald 
- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C23958.11D963C0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #2707 ****************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.