From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #2833 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Monday, August 19 2002 Volume 02 : Number 2833 In this issue: Re: [CANSLIM] CVH Re: [CANSLIM] David Ryan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:46:13 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] CVH This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0148_01C247D2.382C3240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed, I must agree. I can recall several episodes where I entered a flurry = of stop loss orders several points under the current price. Suddenly, = with virtually no volume, the bid dropped, a low trade occurred, the = orders converted to market sells and were executed, and within a matter = of minutes the stock was right back where it had been. I was watching = with live quotes, and had no doubt the specialist reacted to the = presence of the orders I had just entered, took advantage to get some = inventory, then took the price back up and made a nice killing for the = afternoon. But really tough to prove what actually happened, or his = intent. I think that is one disadvantage of the floor specialist vs the Nasdaq = market makers. On NYSE and AMEX, one (or at the most two or three) floor = specialists see all orders. On Naz, it may be spread between 15 or 20 = MMers and individual traders. - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Edward W. Gjertsen II=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 3:41 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] CVH David -Being in this business for as long as I have and going through = this several times in the past, I have a good idea of where the end game = is. There are rules in place that protect the specialist. As with any = litigation, proving malfeasance or an intent to harm is difficult. In = regard to your accusation of being part of the old buddy system, I chose = not to respond to an obviously flippant comment.=20 Ed Gjertsen II ed@macktracks.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of david frank Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 2:31 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] CVH Ed, I appreciate your Americana theme. But what happened in CVH today is = not a good thing. Of course you probably part of the old buddy system of = brokers protecting each other. But filing complaints is a heck of a lot = better than facing litigation. david=20 =20 Ed, why suggest malfeasance and not file a complaint?=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gene Ricci=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 2:10 PM Subject:=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Edward W. Gjertsen II=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 1:56 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] CVH We had our representative on the NYSE floor go and speak with the specialist - he hid behind "order imbalance" - floor rules. We were asked if we wanted to file a complaint - we decided no. There will = be many more battles like this. What is does do is make us look at alternatives. Like I mentioned in an earlier post - Island and = other ECN's would have given us a fill around 32.50. So we are exploring = our execution options. Our CANSLIM philosophy is broken down into three simple parts: Analysis, Money Management and Execution. This time, = the 3rd element, execution, was the weakest link. So , instead of complaining about it, we are doing what American's do best, head to = the competition with a better product. Ed Gjertsen II ed@macktracks.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of david frank Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 1:29 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] CVH I got caught in this so-called CVH inbalanced. luckily i had a limit order in place. although limit orders don't work sometimes- because they = don't have to execute limit orders, although they are within the price = window. of course. there were too many eyes on CVH. i was curious what kind of remedy is there for this specialist's malfeasance, especially for buyers @ 34.50 and above- more than 10 minutes after placing their market orders. = david ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward W. Gjertsen II" To: Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 11:36 AM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] CVH > One of the risks with CANSLIM - too many investors ready to = pounce on > too few stocks. We have been stalking CVH for quite a while. We = put in > an order prior to it reaching its pivot (cheating) when NYSE on = level > two showed $32.40 offer. As CANSLIMR's moved in to buy - the specialist > did not open the book until $34.50. The specialist claimed "order > imbalance" but my source at Pershing said he was working another = book. > We were quite upset The stock moved over $2.00 on an imbalance of > 110,000 shs. The market maker was caught flatfooted. We quickly = sold > out of our position because we were over the 5% threshold. > > Those trading Island or other ECN's may have been filled around > 32.40-32.50. We watch Time and Sales on all our fills and the = only > prints were coming from ECN's. With CANSLIM being one of the most > popular strategies for individual investors, execution is becoming more > and more difficult. > > Ed Gjertsen II > ed@macktracks.com > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_0148_01C247D2.382C3240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed, I must agree. I can recall several episodes = where I=20 entered a flurry of stop loss orders several points under the current = price.=20 Suddenly, with virtually no volume, the bid dropped, a low trade = occurred, the=20 orders converted to market sells and were executed, and within a matter = of=20 minutes the stock was right back where it had been. I was watching with = live=20 quotes, and had no doubt the specialist reacted to the presence of the = orders I=20 had just entered, took advantage to get some inventory, then took the = price back=20 up and made a nice killing for the afternoon. But really tough to prove = what=20 actually happened, or his intent.
 
I think that is one disadvantage of the floor = specialist=20 vs the Nasdaq market makers. On NYSE and AMEX, one (or at the most two = or three)=20 floor specialists see all orders. On Naz, it may be spread between 15 or = 20=20 MMers and individual traders.
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Edward W. = Gjertsen=20 II
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] CVH

David =96Being in this business = for as long=20 as I have and going through this several times in the past, I have a = good idea=20 of where the end game is.  There are rules in place that protect = the=20 specialist.  As with any litigation, proving malfeasance or an = intent to=20 harm is difficult.  In regard to your accusation of being part of = the old=20 buddy system, I chose not to respond to an obviously flippant comment.=20

 

Ed Gjertsen II

ed@macktracks.com

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of david = frank
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 = 2:31=20 PM
To: = canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM]=20 CVH

 

Ed, I appreciate your = Americana=20 theme. But what happened in CVH today is not a good thing. Of course you = probably part of the old buddy system of brokers protecting each other. = But=20 filing complaints is a heck of a lot better than facing litigation. = david=20


 

 

Ed, why=20 suggest malfeasance and not file a complaint? =

----- Original Message = - -----=20

From: Gene Ricci =

To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20

Sent: Monday,=20 August 19, 2002 2:10 PM

Subject:=20

 

 

----- Original Message = - -----=20

From: Edward = W. Gjertsen=20 II

To: canslim@lists.xmission.com= =20

Sent: Monday,=20 August 19, 2002 1:56 PM

Subject: RE:=20 [CANSLIM] CVH

 

We had our representative = on the NYSE=20 floor go and speak with the
specialist - he hid behind "order = imbalance"=20 - floor rules.  We were
asked if we wanted to file a = complaint - we=20 decided no.  There will be
many more battles like = this.  What=20 is does do is make us look at
alternatives.  Like I = mentioned in an=20 earlier post - Island and other
ECN's would have given us a fill = around=20 32.50.  So we are exploring our
execution options.  Our = CANSLIM=20 philosophy is broken down into three
simple parts: Analysis, = Money=20 Management and Execution.  This time, the
3rd element, = execution,=20 was the weakest link.  So , instead of
complaining about it, = we are=20 doing what American's do best, head to the
competition with a = better=20 product.

Ed Gjertsen II
ed@macktracks.com

-----Origi= nal=20 Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmis= sion.com
[mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]=20 On Behalf Of david frank
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 1:29 = PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=
Subject:=20 Re: [CANSLIM] CVH

I got caught in this so-called CVH = inbalanced.=20 luckily i had a limit
order
in place. although limit orders = don't work=20 sometimes- because they don't
have to execute limit orders, = although they=20 are within the price window.
of
course. there were too many = eyes on=20 CVH. i was curious what kind of
remedy
is there for this = specialist's=20 malfeasance, especially for buyers @
34.50
and above- more = than 10=20 minutes after placing their market orders. david
----- Original = Message=20 -----
From: "Edward W. Gjertsen II" <ed@macktracks.com>
To: = <canslim@lists.xmission.com= >
Sent:=20 Monday, August 19, 2002 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM]=20 CVH


> One of the risks with CANSLIM -  too many = investors=20 ready to pounce on
> too few stocks.  We have been = stalking CVH=20 for quite a while.  We put
in
> an order prior to it = reaching=20 its pivot (cheating) when NYSE on level
> two showed $32.40=20 offer.  As CANSLIMR's moved in to buy - = the
specialist
> did=20 not open the book until $34.50.  The specialist claimed = "order
>=20 imbalance" but my source at Pershing said he was working another=20 book.
> We were quite upset  The stock moved over $2.00 = on an=20 imbalance of
> 110,000 shs.  The market maker was caught=20 flatfooted.  We quickly sold
> out of our position = because we=20 were over the 5% threshold.
>
> Those trading Island or = other=20 ECN's may have been filled around
> 32.40-32.50.  We = watch Time=20 and Sales on all our fills and the only
> prints were coming = from=20 ECN's.  With CANSLIM being one of the most
> popular = strategies=20 for individual investors, execution is becoming
more
> and = more=20 difficult.
>
> Ed Gjertsen II
> ed@macktracks.com
>
>>=20 -
> -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
>= ; -In=20 the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
> -"unsubscribe=20 canslim".  Do not use quotes in your email.


-
-To = subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe = canslim".  Do=20 not use quotes in your email.


-
-To = subscribe/unsubscribe,=20 email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe = canslim".  Do=20 not use quotes in your=20 email.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0148_01C247D2.382C3240-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:12:22 -0500 From: "david frank" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] David Ryan This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0204_01C247CD.7DB90360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wasn't talking about people using david ryan. i am talking about david = ryan par excellent stock investor spending his time managing his own = account versus managing other's peolple's money. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tom Worley=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] David Ryan people putting half a million at risk under someone else's management = rarely complain, they knew the risks, took the chance (greed factor) and = vote with their money if not happy with the performance. they also tend to be people too busy with their own successful careers = to manage the markets on a daily basis, all too glad to have someone = else do the worrying and make the decisions, just give them a quarterly = performance report. tend to be in for the long term, just got to keep = them focused on the overall portfolio, not the individual pieces. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: david frank=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] David Ryan Ed, that is my point. if you have $2 million and make 50% for 1 = year-you have a million profit- using your own account. Why put up with = the headaches of paperwork and people bellyaching about their money? OPM = used be the mantra in the real estate market. most of those real estate = gurus and people that i knew in real estate- using other's people money- = went bankrupt. I lived pretty much lived in a shack-when i met my = wife-sold my rare book collection to the university-bought my first = investment house. Never used OPM or borrowed from the bank. never looked = back-made good. Works the same way in the stock market if one can become = the good investor. I believe Ann mentioned a couple of classic = statements that WON wrote that were in his book-she posted these = recently-very true statements. thank you, david ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Edward W. Gjertsen II=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 6:26 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] David Ryan OPM (other people's money) provides leverage. In a hedge fund = environment, a General Partner can earn 20% profit and 1% management = fee. Utilizing OPM will enhance a great investor's ability to make = money. It's not an altruistic pursuit. The downfall (Read Cramer's and = Marty Schwartz's book) is that OPM brings about many more headaches. = This is why many in the hedge fund industry close up shop and just trade = for themselves, that is if they were successful and did not just blow = up. Ed Gjertsen II ed@macktracks.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of david frank Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 6:31 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] David Ryan What I find interesting is that David Ryan, I suppose you can call = him a protege of WON, if he made or makes that much money-why would he = invest other people's money? I can hardly keep up my own personal = acoounts. david ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mathews, Craig=20 To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 6:08 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] David Ryan Hello Walter, He is managing private funds, I forget the exact SEC designation, = looking for 99 investors to invest minimum of 500K each. I received a = prospectus last year, did not participate. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Walter Wittesch [mailto:waltw@socal.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 1:38 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] David Ryan Ryan Capital Management 100 Wilshire Blvd Santa Monica, CA 90401-1110 Phone (310) 260-6805 -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of J. Lobatto Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 6:33 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: [CANSLIM] David Ryan Anyone know the whereabouts or whatabouts of David Ryan? I do = recall that he and WON started a mutual fund several years ago that had = mediocre performance and that was bought out by a fund family. Does he = still manage money these days and if so, anyone aware of a track record? Jon - ------=_NextPart_000_0204_01C247CD.7DB90360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I wasn't talking about people using = david ryan. i=20 am talking about david ryan par excellent stock investor  = spending his time managing his own account versus managing other's = peolple's=20 money.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tom=20 Worley
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 = 9:34=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] David = Ryan

people putting half a million at risk under = someone=20 else's management rarely complain, they knew the risks, took the = chance (greed=20 factor) and vote with their money if not happy with the=20 performance.
 
they also tend to be people too busy with = their own=20 successful careers to manage the markets on a daily basis, all too = glad to=20 have someone else do the worrying and make the decisions, just give = them a=20 quarterly performance report. tend to be in for the long term, just = got to=20 keep them focused on the overall portfolio, not the individual=20 pieces.
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: david=20 frank
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] David Ryan

Ed, that is my point. if you have $2 = million and=20 make 50% for 1 year-you have a million profit- using your own account. = Why put=20 up with the headaches of paperwork and people bellyaching about their = money?=20 OPM used be the mantra in the real estate market. most of those real = estate=20 gurus and people that i knew in real estate- using other's = people=20 money- went bankrupt. I lived pretty much lived in a shack-when i met = my=20 wife-sold my rare book collection to the university-bought my first = investment=20 house. Never used OPM or borrowed from the bank. never looked = back-made good.=20 Works the same way in the stock market if one can become the good = investor. I=20 believe Ann mentioned a couple of classic statements =  that=20 WON wrote that were in his book-she posted these = recently-very true=20 statements. thank you, david
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Edward W.=20 Gjertsen II
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 = 6:26=20 PM
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] David = Ryan

OPM (other people’s = money) provides=20 leverage.  In a hedge fund environment, a General Partner can = earn 20%=20 profit and 1% management fee.  Utilizing OPM will enhance a = great=20 investor’s ability to make money.  It’s not an = altruistic pursuit. The=20 downfall (Read Cramer’s and Marty Schwartz’s book) is = that OPM brings about=20 many more headaches.  This is why many in the hedge fund = industry close=20 up shop and just trade for themselves, that is if they were = successful and=20 did not just blow up.

 

Ed Gjertsen = II

ed@macktracks.com

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]=20 On Behalf Of david=20 frank
Sent: = Monday, August=20 19, 2002 6:31 PM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] David=20 Ryan

 

What I find = interesting=20 is that David Ryan, I suppose you can call him a protege = of WON,=20 if he made or makes that much money-why would  he invest other = people's=20 money? I can hardly keep up my own personal acoounts.=20 david

----- = Original=20 Message -----

From: Mathews,=20 Craig

To: 'canslim@lists.xmission.com'= =20

Sent:=20 Monday, August 19, 2002 6:08 PM

Subject: RE:=20 [CANSLIM] David Ryan

 

Hello=20 Walter,

 

He=20 is managing private funds, I forget the exact SEC designation, = looking for=20 99 investors to invest minimum of 500K each.  I received a = prospectus=20 last year, did not participate.

 

Craig

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Walter=20 Wittesch [mailto:waltw@socal.rr.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 18, = 2002 1:38=20 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] = David=20 Ryan

Ryan=20 Capital Management

100=20 Wilshire Blvd

Santa = Monica, CA=20 90401-1110

Phone = (310)=20 260-6805

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of J. = Lobatto
Sent: Sunday, August 18, = 2002 6:33=20 AM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [CANSLIM] David=20 Ryan

Anyone know the=20 whereabouts or whatabouts of David Ryan? I do recall that he and = WON=20 started a mutual fund several years ago that had mediocre = performance=20 and that was bought out by a fund family. Does he still manage = money=20 these days and if so, anyone aware of a track=20 record?

 

Jon

- ------=_NextPart_000_0204_01C247CD.7DB90360-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #2833 ****************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.