From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #2850 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Thursday, August 22 2002 Volume 02 : Number 2850 In this issue: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Cops Lurk RE: [CANSLIM] The ultimate "M" meter ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:18:12 -0400 From: "Dan Forant" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Cops Lurk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01C24A29.CE7CDFC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00B7_01C24A29.CE7CDFC0" - ------=_NextPart_001_00B7_01C24A29.CE7CDFC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageI personally think the IBD is a waste of trees. However most = netters should know how to avoid stepping legally on ones toes. If they = had 500,000 subscribers instead of around 200,000 they probably wouldn't = care. Subscriptions must have dropped like rocks the last few years. DanF ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tom Worley=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Cops Lurk Duke, the funny thing is, if you don't identify your primary source = and also "blend in" other sources until the final product is your own = creation, they have no complaint. That is what I was forced to do when = my weekly scans of stocks at or close to new highs came entirely from = DGO. Once or twice I posted the spread sheet of data right from DGO's = report, after deleting every stock I didn't mention (from several = hundred down to about 30). Instead of appreciating that I was showing = non subscribers the quantity and quality of CANSLIM data available from = DGO, they threatened me as well. Seems to be corporate policy of both = DGO and IBD, with presumably lurkers from both companies in our midst.=20 They don't seem to mind when you quote current data on a short list of = stocks, just can't copy directly from them. I will always wonder just = how many articles printed in IBD were a direct result of ideas, comments = and observations of our postings here, and taken from this group without = any attribution or credit. They are strictly one way, what is theirs is = theirs, and what is ours is theirs as well. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Duke Miller=20 To: CANSLIM=20 Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 6:08 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] IBD Cops Lurk All... Earlier this week I got a Certified Letter from IBD warning me that my = posting on July 21st of a spreadsheet from Screen of the Day is in = violation of the Terms and Conditions of Investors.com. =20 I've conversed with several members off list regarding this matter, = and the reactions have been mixed. =20 The point is the material they provide is proprietary. Since not = everyone on this list subscribes to IBD, it's important that when you = post something herein it is not in violation of their Terms and = Conditions. =20 I have my own mixed feelings, ranging from silly to respectful: =20 Silly, because this list is one of the more respected lists out there = (as in non-Yahoo-ish), and if ever there was a bonanza freebie for IBD, = this is it! You can't buy this kind of publicity! The fact that from = time to time we pass along "privileged" information itself stirs = curiosity amongst lurkers, whetting their appetites for more. They = ultimately end up subscribing, etc, etc. =20 I am, however, respectful, because they're right--they own the = material and it's for the personal use only of subscribers. I just = wonder which one of us is the "mole". C'est la vie.... Duke This email, including any attachments, was scanned by Norton = Anti-Virus prior to being sent.=20 - ------=_NextPart_001_00B7_01C24A29.CE7CDFC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I personally think the IBD is a waste = of trees.=20 However most netters should know how to avoid stepping legally on ones = toes. If=20 they had 500,000 subscribers instead of around 200,000 they probably = wouldn't=20 care. Subscriptions must have dropped like rocks the last few=20 years.
 
DanF
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tom=20 Worley
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 = 9:49=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Cops = Lurk

Duke, the funny thing is, if you don't = identify your=20 primary source and also "blend in" other sources until the final = product is=20 your own creation, they have no complaint. That is what I was forced = to do=20 when my weekly scans of stocks at or close to new highs came entirely = from=20 DGO. Once or twice I posted the spread sheet of data right from DGO's = report,=20 after deleting every stock I didn't mention (from several hundred down = to=20 about 30). Instead of appreciating that I was showing non subscribers = the=20 quantity and quality of CANSLIM data available from DGO, they = threatened me as=20 well. Seems to be corporate policy of both DGO and IBD, with = presumably=20 lurkers from both companies in our midst.
 
They don't seem to mind when you quote current = data on a=20 short list of stocks, just can't copy directly from them. I will = always wonder=20 just how many articles printed in IBD were a direct result of ideas, = comments=20 and observations of our postings here, and taken from this group = without any=20 attribution or credit. They are strictly one way, what is theirs is = theirs,=20 and what is ours is theirs as well.
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Duke=20 Miller
To: CANSLIM
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 6:08 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] IBD Cops Lurk

All...
 
Earlier this = week I got a=20 Certified Letter from IBD warning me that my posting on July = 21st of a=20 spreadsheet from Screen of the Day is in violation of the Terms and = Conditions=20 of Investors.com. 
 
I've = conversed with=20 several members off list regarding this matter, and the reactions have = been=20 mixed. 
 
The point is = the material=20 they provide is proprietary.  Since not everyone on this = list=20 subscribes to IBD, it's important that when you post something herein = it is=20 not in violation of their Terms and Conditions.  =
 
I have my own = mixed=20 feelings, ranging from silly to respectful: 
 
Silly, = because this list=20 is one of the more respected lists out there (as in non-Yahoo-ish), = and if=20 ever there was a bonanza freebie for IBD, this is it!  You can't = buy this=20 kind of publicity!  The fact that from time to time we pass along = "privileged" information itself stirs curiosity amongst lurkers, = whetting=20 their appetites for more. They ultimately end up subscribing, etc, = etc. =20
 
I am, = however,=20 respectful, because they're right--they own the material and it's for = the=20 personal use only of subscribers.  I just wonder which one of us = is the=20 "mole".
 
C'est la=20 vie....
 
Duke
 

This email, including any attachments, was scanned by = Norton=20 Anti-Virus prior to being sent.

3D""
 
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Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:06:26 -0500 From: "Curt Corley" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] The ultimate "M" meter This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C24A1F.CAF52420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Tom. I certainly understand the 12-14 work days. I=92ve only = had 4 hours of sleep since yesterday morning myself. You probably noticed I wrote =93HTTMIS=94 instead of =93HTMMIS=94. My sleep deprivation is = probably why I switched tenses too. Sorry for the confusion. =20 Also, thanks to Katherine for the kind reception. =20 Anyway, to get back on topic: I=92ve got some techniques for initial protective stop losses and trailing stop losses that I would like to share with the list in the near future. So stay tuned. But for now, I=92m going to try to get some sleep. =20 Curt =20 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Worley Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:56 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] The ultimate "M" meter =20 Thanks Curt, both for the understanding and the introduction. Because you wrote in the "first person, plural" tense I jumped to the conclusion that you were part of the site you mentioned, should have asked first. My only excuse is too many 12-14 hour work days, six days a week. =20 Working for a defense contractor, I have no doubt you will have some observations that can benefit us all, as it right now appears to me to be a definite candidate for growth for the next few years. And that's despite the unpredictability of govt contracting. =20 - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Curt Corley =20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:20 PM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] The ultimate "M" meter =20 It certainly wasn=92t my intention to do any commercial solicitation. I = am not -- in any way -- professionally affiliated with the products or people that I mentioned earlier and could not benefit from endorsing their products. I=92m a software engineer working on a missile defense project for a major aeorospace-defense company. The sources I mentioned were used as references only, because I like to back up my words with examples and facts.=20 =20 You=92re right. I definitely did not catch the fact that commercial solicitation is prohibited =96 especially since there have been numerous references to commercial sources within the E-mails here in the last few days, including IBD, Daily Graphs, HTTMIS, and links to cup-with-handle sites. However, I=92m sorry that for the faux pas and will now explain why I joined the group. =20 I started getting interested in investments a few years back because of my 401K account. Unfortunately, I bought into the hype that you should buy indexed funds using dollar-cost averaging. Well, this worked for a while, and I was satisfied with the results. However, when the bear market started about 2 =BD years ago, I lost a considerable sum of = money. Whenever something goes sour, I don=92t cry about it. I analyze what = went wrong and figure out what I can do to correct the problem. So after getting crushed at the onslaught of the bear market, I started studying and reading everything I could get my hands on concerning investment and trading of stock securities. Naturally, my enthusiasm boiled over into the work place. I was talking to a coworker who is a diehard CANSLIM advocate, so I bought the HTTMIS book. WON=92s book made a lot of sense to me, and I decided to learn everything I could about CANSLIM. While searching the internet for CANSLIM sites, I found this mailing list. =20 =20 I was initially offended to be accused of commercial solicitation (can you blame me?). However, after getting over my initial reaction and thinking things over from your point of view, there are no hard feelings. I can understand your concern about the quality of this mailing list. If people let salesmen get on the mailing list and start pitching their products, the list would degenerate with spam. It has been challenging enough to find enough time to read through the dozens of good messages that I=92ve received every day so far. I respect your assertiveness in ensuring the quality of this list. Thank you. =20 From what I=92ve seen so far, you have some great advice on this mailing list. I hope I too can contribute something useful in the future. =20 =20 Curt =20 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Worley Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 6:28 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] The ultimate "M" meter =20 Curt, if you had lurked here more than a few days, you might have caught the fact that commercial solicitation is prohibited. =20 If that's not what you intended, then I suggest you introduce yourself and tell us why you have joined our group. =20 - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Curt Corley =20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 3:16AM Subject: [CANSLIM] The ultimate "M" meter =20 I=92ve been lurking here for a few days, and I would like to put in my = two cents=92 worth about the question of whether we=92re in a bull or a bear market. I=92d also like to give my personal opinion of what the = ultimate =93M=94 meter is. But first, I want to get some definitions down to = make sure we=92re speaking the same language here. I will use the = definitions that are put forth by the Dow Theory and which, IMHO, are best described in the book =93Technical Analysis of Stock Trends=94 by by Robert D. Edwards, John Magee, W. H. C. Bassetti (Editor). =20 =20 What=92s a bull/bear market? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D In =93TA of Stock Trends,=94 the authors state that a primary trend is = the general direction of price movement over a year or more. A bull market is a primary trend containing higher highs and higher lows in price. A bear market is a primary trend containing lower highs and lower lows in price. Within the primary trend are secondary trends. Secondary trends last from 3 weeks to many months, and they do not (repeat not) qualify as bear or bull markets. The secondary trends are merely the corrections within a bull market and the rallies within a bear markets. In addition to the primary and secondary trends, there are minor trends that usually last less than 6 days and rarely as long as 3 weeks, but they are of little importance here. The main thing that I would like to get across is this: Using the definitions just described, you can=92t talk about bear and bull markets unless you=92re talking about a time frame of about a year. =20 What do we use for an =93M=94 Meter? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Now that the definitions are out of the way, we can talk about how to get in and out of bull markets easily using our =93M=94 meter. If = you=92re having CWs (i.e., CANSLIM Withdrawals) during a bear market, you might try CANSLIM=92ing during a rally within the bear market. You can use = our =93M=94 meter to detect rallies as well. The =93M=94 meter is so simple = that I feel like a few of you are not going to believe me and will tell me to pack sand =96 but, oh well, here it goes. The =93M=94 meters are moving averages. =20 For a good explanation as to why this works, visit http://www.401k-maximizer.com/. =20 =20 How do we use the =93M=94 Meter? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The index you choose to graph will depend on the kind of security = you=92re investing in. For general growth stocks, the QQQ ticker symbol (NASDAQ) is a good one to use. For especially small cap growth stocks, you can choose one of the Russell indexes, such as the Russell 2000. To get a feel for whether you=92re in a bull/bear market, plot the index against = a 200-day moving average. To get a feel for whether you=92re in a rally/correction, plot the index against a 50-day moving average. The reasons we choose a 200-day average for bear/bull =93M=94 indicator are because it is: (1) a length of time that approximates the number of trading days in one year =96 the minimum time frame for a bull/bear market, and (2) it is an indicator that is highly watched by many elephants. The reasons we choose a 50-day average for the rally/correction =93M=94 indicator are fairly the same: (1) it=92s a = highly watched indicator, (2) it is a time frame that makes a good compromise between getting you in and out of a rally without whipsawing you in and out. =20 Defense of the =93M=94 Meter =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Try plotting a 3-year graph of QQQ against a 200-day EMA moving average. Imagine yourself getting in on that market when the prices crossed above the 200-day MA and getting out of the market when the prices crossed below the 200-day MA. You might have gotten whip-sawed 3 or 4 times between April and September of 2000 (allowing you to participate in the rallies of June and August). But you would have stayed out of the bear market since September. =20 Are we still in a bear market? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Truth is: nobody knows yet, because enough time hasn=92t passed. = That=92s the way it goes. In a reversal like this, you never know whether it=92s rally or the start of a new bull market until enough time has passed (like the saying goes: Hindsight is 20/20). But whether we=92re truly = in a bull market or bear market is irrelevant to me. All I care about is our meter. And the meter says this. Yesterday (Aug. 21) QQQ finally crossed above the 50-day EMA, but it=92s still a long way from reaching the 200-day EMA. I might get into stocks slowly and cautiously right now, but I=92m certainly not ready to jump in with both feet. =20 - -- Curt - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C24A1F.CAF52420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks, Tom.=A0 I certainly understand the 12-14 = work days.=A0 I’ve only had 4 = hours of sleep since yesterday morning myself. You probably noticed I wrote = “HTTMIS” instead of “HTMMIS”.=A0 = My sleep deprivation is probably why I switched tenses too.=A0 Sorry for the = confusion.

 

Also, thanks to Katherine for the = kind reception.

 

Anyway, to get back on topic:=A0 I’ve got some techniques for = initial protective stop losses and trailing stop losses that I would like to = share with the list in the near future.=A0 = So stay tuned.=A0 But for now, I’m = going to try to get some sleep.

 

Curt

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Worley
Sent: = Thursday, August 22, = 2002 8:56 PM
To: = canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] = The ultimate "M" meter

 

Thanks Curt, both for the understanding and the introduction. Because you wrote in the "first person, plural" tense I jumped to the conclusion that you were part = of the site you mentioned, should have asked first. My only excuse is too many = 12-14 hour work days, six days a week.

 

Working for a defense = contractor, I have no doubt you will have some observations that can benefit us all, = as it right now appears to me to be a definite candidate for growth for the = next few years. And that's despite the unpredictability of govt = contracting.

 

----- Original Message = - -----

Sent: Thursday, August 22, = 2002 7:20 PM

Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] The ultimate "M" meter

 

It certainly = wasn’t my intention to do any commercial solicitation. I am not -- in any way = - -- professionally affiliated with the products or people that I mentioned = earlier and could not benefit from endorsing their products.=A0 I’m a software engineer = working on a missile defense project for a major aeorospace-defense company.=A0 The sources I mentioned were used = as references only, because I like to back up my words with examples and = facts.

 =

You’re = right.=A0 I definitely did not catch the = fact that commercial solicitation is prohibited – especially since there = have been numerous references to commercial sources within the E-mails here in the = last few days, including IBD, Daily Graphs, HTTMIS, and links to = cup-with-handle sites.=A0=A0 However, I’m = sorry that for the faux pas and will now explain why I joined the = group.

 =

I started = getting interested in investments a few years back because of my 401K = account.=A0 Unfortunately, I bought into the = hype that you should buy indexed funds using dollar-cost averaging.=A0 Well, this worked for a while, and = I was satisfied with the results.=A0 = However, when the bear market started about 2 =BD years ago, I lost a considerable sum = of money.=A0 Whenever something = goes sour, I don’t cry about it.=A0 I = analyze what went wrong and figure out what I can do to correct the problem.=A0 So after getting crushed at the = onslaught of the bear market, I started studying and reading everything I could get = my hands on concerning investment and trading of stock securities.=A0 Naturally, my enthusiasm boiled = over into the work place.=A0 I was talking to = a coworker who is a diehard CANSLIM advocate, so I bought the HTTMIS book.=A0 WON’s book made a lot of = sense to me, and I decided to learn everything I could about CANSLIM.=A0 While searching the internet for = CANSLIM sites, I found this mailing list.=A0 =

 =

I was initially = offended to be accused of commercial solicitation (can you blame me?).=A0 However, after getting over my = initial reaction and thinking things over from your point of view, there are no = hard feelings.=A0 I can understand = your concern about the quality of this mailing list.=A0 If people let salesmen get on the mailing list and start pitching = their products, the list would degenerate with spam.=A0 It has been challenging enough to find enough time to read = through the dozens of good messages that I’ve received every day so far.=A0 I respect your assertiveness in = ensuring the quality of this list.=A0 Thank = you.

 =

From what = I’ve seen so far, you have some great advice on this mailing list.=A0=A0 I hope I too can contribute = something useful in the future.=A0 =

 =

Curt

 =

-----Original = Message-----
From: = owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com<= /span> [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com<= /span>] On Behalf Of Tom Worley
Sent: = Thursday, August 22, = 2002 6:28 AM
To: = canslim@lists.xmission.com<= /span>
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] = The ultimate "M" meter

 

Curt, if you had lurked = here more than a few days, you might have caught the fact that commercial = solicitation is prohibited.

 

If that's not what you = intended, then I suggest you introduce yourself and tell us why you have joined = our group.

 

----- Original Message = - -----

From: Curt Corley =

Sent: Thursday, August 22, = 2002 3:16AM

Subject: [CANSLIM] The ultimate "M" meter

 

I’ve been lurking = here for a few days, and I would like to put in my two cents’ worth about the question of whether we’re in a bull or a bear market.=A0 I’d also like to give my = personal opinion of what the ultimate “M” meter is.=A0 But first, I want to get some = definitions down to make sure we’re speaking the same language here.=A0 I will use the definitions that = are put forth by the Dow Theory and which, IMHO, are best described in the book “Technical Analysis of Stock Trends” by by = Robert D. Edwards, John Magee, W. H. C. Bassetti (Editor).=A0

 

What’s a bull/bear = market?

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In “TA of Stock = Trends,” the authors state that a primary trend is the general direction of price movement over a year or more.=A0 = A bull market is a primary trend containing higher highs and higher lows in price.=A0 A bear market is a = primary trend containing lower highs and lower lows in price.=A0 Within the primary trend are secondary trends.=A0 Secondary trends last from 3 weeks = to many months, and they do not (repeat not) qualify as bear or bull = markets.=A0 The secondary trends are merely = the corrections within a bull market and the rallies within a bear = markets.=A0 In addition to the primary and = secondary trends, there are minor trends that usually last less than 6 days and = rarely as long as 3 weeks, but they are of little importance here.=A0 The main thing that I would like = to get across is this:=A0 Using the = definitions just described, you can’t talk about bear and bull markets unless you’re talking about a time frame of about a = year.

 

What do we use for an “M” Meter?

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Now that the definitions = are out of the way, we can talk about how to get in and out of bull markets easily = using our “M” meter.=A0 If you’re having CWs (i.e., CANSLIM Withdrawals) during a bear = market, you might try CANSLIM’ing during a rally within the bear market.=A0 You can use our “M” = meter to detect rallies as well.=A0 The “M” meter is so simple that I feel like a few of you are not = going to believe me and will tell me to pack sand – but, oh well, here = it goes.=A0 The “M” meters are = moving averages.=A0 =

For a good explanation as = to why this works, visit http://www.401k-maximizer.com/.=A0=A0=A0 =

 

How do we use the = “M” Meter?

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The index you choose to = graph will depend on the kind of security you’re investing in.=A0 For general growth stocks, the QQQ = ticker symbol (NASDAQ) is a good one to use.=A0 For especially small cap growth stocks, you can choose one of the Russell indexes, such as the Russell 2000.=A0 To get a feel for whether you’re in a bull/bear market, = plot the index against a 200-day moving average.=A0 To get a feel for whether you’re in a rally/correction, = plot the index against a 50-day moving average.=A0 The reasons we choose a 200-day average for bear/bull = “M” indicator are because it is: (1) a length of time that approximates the = number of trading days in one year – the minimum time frame for a = bull/bear market, and (2) it is an indicator that is highly watched by many elephants.=A0 The reasons we = choose a 50-day average for the rally/correction “M” indicator are = fairly the same: (1) it’s a highly watched indicator, (2) it is a time frame = that makes a good compromise between getting you in and out of a rally = without whipsawing you in and out.

 

Defense of the = “M” Meter

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Try plotting a 3-year graph = of QQQ against a 200-day EMA moving average.=A0 Imagine yourself getting in on that market when the prices = crossed above the 200-day MA and getting out of the market when the prices crossed = below the 200-day MA. You might have gotten whip-sawed 3 or 4 times between April = and September of 2000 (allowing you to participate in the rallies of June = and August).=A0 But you would have = stayed out of the bear market since September.

 

Are we still in a bear = market?

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Truth is: nobody knows yet, = because enough time hasn’t passed. That’s the way it goes.=A0 In a reversal like this, you never = know whether it’s rally or the start of a new bull market until enough = time has passed (like the saying goes: Hindsight is 20/20).=A0 But whether we’re truly in a = bull market or bear market is irrelevant to me.=A0 = All I care about is our meter.=A0 = And the meter says this.=A0 Yesterday (Aug. = 21) QQQ finally crossed above the 50-day EMA, but it’s still a long way = from reaching the 200-day EMA.=A0 I = might get into stocks slowly and cautiously right now, but I’m certainly not = ready to jump in with both feet.

 

-- = Curt

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