From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #3081 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Friday, December 6 2002 Volume 02 : Number 3081 In this issue: Re: [CANSLIM] Fundamental Philosophies [CANSLIM] Re: Cost ofr IBD RE: [CANSLIM] Re: Cost ofr IBD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:47:28 EST From: Spencer48@aol.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Fundamental Philosophies Tom: Tom, you know I think a great deal of you-over the years you've answered a lot of my CANSLIM and stock mkt questions. This is not a slam on you-it is only my opinion. Over the centuries the general state of nations has been impoverishment. And this was because (I believe) that neither capitalism nor the rule of law was permitted to flourish. My point is that the heavens have not ordained that there will be new products available. The reason they are made available is because entrepreneurs are permitted to offer them at what they believe is a competitive price. Thus, the entrepreneurs are willing to invest in their introduction into the marketplace. Mike and Katherine are now offering a similar service to Daily Graphs. Does this mean the DGO has priced itself out of the market? We will see. However, what we will not see is new products coming onto the market if people other (for instance, the government) than the entrepreneurs are the ones who define "fair". In my opnion, it is fruitless to define "fair" (everyone's opinion will differ). So let the marketplace decide if the price charged is "fair", and let the entrepreneur (who does the risk taking by introducing the product) initiate the definition of what is "fair" and what is not. jans In a message dated 12/5/2002 10:13:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, stkguru@bellsouth.net writes: << Fred, I don't think the direct cost is the issue for many people as much as the apparent philosophy of making a buck off subscribers at the expense of all else, including staying competitive in a changing industry, adding new services and capabilities without also adding new (and substantial) additional charges for those improvements, and threatening legal action against even the most ardent supporters if those subscribing supporters dare share any of the data from either DGO or IBD. >> - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 11:26:57 -0600 From: Gene Ricci Subject: [CANSLIM] Re: Cost ofr IBD This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_02D9_01C29D1A.62CA97B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Nancy, much of the 'good' stuff is available on investors.com. You = might want to adopt a trick that we use in Dallas... we go to one of the = bookstores and read it for free. The only kicker is that we buy coffee = and something to eat so we don't really save much money... the cheapest = way is to visit your library and read it (and Value Line) for free. Have a great weekend, Gene ----- Original Message -----=20 From: NANCY POLCARO=20 To: canslim=20 Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Fundamental Philosophies I would just like to put in my opinion if possible. For people who are = just learning the IBD system and doing all the wrong things and not = making money(especially in this market) it is a big expense-on top of no = profits and maybe losing money. For people who have traded for 40 years = and have their own web site and know Bill O'neil personally, I'm sure it = is well worth the money. I think the problem is -how do you learn the = system when you have no stock market background unless you pay that = much money just to try to learn. I had the paper for two years. I = thought I was learning it but in fact I was just doing well because I = was caught up in the last two years of a raging bull market. I let the = paper go when stocks were going no where but down. When the market = turns I will probably try it again but in the mean time it is to big of = an expense to pay for training. Especially if we have a 10 year bear. = Sorry if I ask simple questions right now, but the books and this web = site are where I'm being taught right now. I want to thank everyone on = this site for all the help and training you offer the rest of us. nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Richards Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:35 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Fundamental Philosophies Curt, After some 40 years in this business, I believe that one of the = guidelines my mentor pounded into my head is still applicable. "You get what you pay for in this business." Fred -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Curt Corley Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:22 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Fundamental Philosophies Fred, =20 I was just joking about the online service. Maybe I should have = put a =E2=80=9C;)=E2=80=9D after that statement, instead of a = =E2=80=9C:).=E2=80=9D =20 =20 I agree with the idea that the cost is not very significant if you = are able to make significantly more than $500 using DGO and IBD = =E2=80=93 especially if you are unable to make that amount without DGO. = However, that could very well strengthen the argument in favor of lower = cost, because (1) there are quite a few people out there who are not in = your position and who don=E2=80=99t have the starting capital and/or = skills to make a significant amount over $500, and (2) there are quite a = few people out there who can make significant money without the service. = ;) =20 Curt =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Fred Richards Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:36 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Fundamental Philosophies =20 And just how much will you charge? Have you given any = consideration to the costs involved? Or how many people might sign up = for another stock rating service? =20 It is always great to leverage off other people's work but unless = you can make a profit after all the costs both known and unknown are = caculated, don't make the number 1 mistake of most entrepreneurs . . . = failing to consider the cost of one's time. =20 Since I make a few more dollars than $500 using the DGO and IBD, = the cost is only material to those who don't. -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Curt Corley Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:15 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: [CANSLIM] Fundamental Philosophies Hi, =20 I hope you don=E2=80=99t mind me changing the subject name of = this thread to something a little more appropriate than NXTL and SXT.=20 =20 To answer your question: Yes, I would certainly consider = purchasing a stock if the ROE was less than 16.5% with all other factors = looking good. As you know, I=E2=80=99ve purchased PECS and MNTR = recently -- two stocks that were a lot less perfect than the theoretical = stock you mentioned. I get your point, and you are right: an ROE below = 17% certainly does not mean the company or the stock is bad. But = here=E2=80=99s a situation to consider. Let=E2=80=99s say you have = screened 9,100+ stocks, and came up with a dozen or so stocks that have = what you consider to be near-perfect fundamentals. And let=E2=80=99s = say a few of those look like they might break out of a base formation = within the next couple of weeks. Would you rather wait around for the = possibility that those stocks with the best fundamentals will break out? = Or would rather purchase stocks that have already broken out but which = have less stellar fundamentals? Within a very short time after = purchasing PECS and MNTR, I saw other stocks with better fundamentals = that looked like they were ready to make a move. Of course, = that=E2=80=99s a tough thing to watch, and that=E2=80=99s why I put some = thought into this question. Given my situation and my personality, I = decided I would rather keep my eye on only the very best ones. = That=E2=80=99s why I decided last weekend to screen only the = near-perfect ones and keep an eye on those. And now you, Andy, and Tom = are starting to make me doubt that decision. Thanks a lot! :) =20 Seriously now: this has been a very educational and interesting = thread. Hopefully, by the time we are through with this, we will have = figured out the best overall stock-picking system; then we can start an = on-line rating system and screening service that doesn=E2=80=99t cost = $500 a year. :) =20 Curt =20 P.S. =E2=80=93 I would like to open a topic up some time in the = future about the use of earnings estimates. But this topic is enough = for now. My laptop is over-heating. I=E2=80=99m coming into work = tired. And my wife is starting to forget my middle name. =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of kmalm Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:44 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] NXTL, SXT =20 Hi Curt, =20 I think you've identified the stickier issues in CANSLIM and = interpreting WON's work. As both Tom and Andy have pointed out in their = posts, while WON may *seem* to be stating that ROE>=3D17 is a "minimum = requirement' it turns out it is a guidepost to lead you to better = quality stocks. As with other indicators, this is based on his = historical view of winning stocks, meaning that "on average" winning = stocks had an ROE>=3D17. As with D/E, ROE can be misleading. For = example, if a company rejiggers their capital structure and increases = their outstanding shares, this will have an immediate impact on the ROE = measure. Another way of viewing it would simply be by asking a question. = That is, if you were looking at a stock and it had a "perfect" cup with = handle (ok, it's theoretical!); high RS Rank; an RS line making new = highs; met all other earnings, sales and profit margin guidelines, and = broke out on 150% of ADV, would you pass it up because it had an ROE of = 16.5%? If so, why? Does the "low" ROE mean that it is not a good company = or a good stock? =20 Katherine =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_02D9_01C29D1A.62CA97B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Nancy, much of the 'good' = stuff is=20 available on investors.com. You might want to adopt a trick that we use = in=20 Dallas... we go to one of the bookstores and read it for free. The only = kicker=20 is that we buy coffee and something to eat so we don't really save = much=20 money... the cheapest way is to visit your library and read it (and = Value=20 Line) for free.
 
Have a great = weekend,
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 NANCY = POLCARO=20
To: canslim
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 = 12:03=20 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] = Fundamental=20 Philosophies

I would just like to put in my opinion if possible. For people = who are=20 just learning the IBD system and doing all the wrong things and not = making=20 money(especially in this market) it is a big expense-on top of no = profits and=20 maybe losing money. For people who have traded for 40 years and have = their own=20 web site and know Bill O'neil personally, I'm sure it is well worth = the=20 money.  I think the problem is -how do you learn the = system  =20 when you have no stock market background unless you pay that = much =20 money just to try to learn. I had the paper for two years.  I = thought I=20 was learning it but in fact I was just doing well because I was caught = up in=20 the last two years of a raging bull market.  I let the paper = go =20 when stocks were going no where but down.  When the market turns = I will=20 probably try it again but in the mean time it is to big of an expense = to pay=20 for training.  Especially if we have a 10 year bear.  Sorry = if I ask=20 simple questions right now, but the books and this web site are where = I'm=20 being taught right now. I want to thank everyone on this site for all = the help=20 and training you offer the rest of us.  nancy
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Fred Richards
Sent: Thursday, December 05, = 2002 9:35=20 PM
To: = canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] = Fundamental=20 Philosophies
 
Curt,
 
After some 40 years in this business, I believe that one of = the=20 guidelines my mentor pounded into my head is still=20 applicable.
 
"You get what you pay for in this = business."
 
Fred
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Curt=20 Corley
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:22 = PM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] = Fundamental=20 Philosophies

Fred,

 

I was = just joking=20 about the online service. =20 Maybe I should have put a =E2=80=9C;)=E2=80=9D after that = statement, instead of a=20 =E2=80=9C:).=E2=80=9D =20

 

I agree = with the=20 idea that the cost is not very significant if you are able to make = significantly more than $500 using DGO and IBD =E2=80=93 = especially if you are=20 unable to make that amount without DGO.  However, that could very = well=20 strengthen the argument in favor of lower cost, because (1) there = are=20 quite a few people out there who are not in your position and who = don=E2=80=99t=20 have the starting capital and/or skills to make a significant = amount over=20 $500, and (2) there are quite a few people out there who can make=20 significant money without the service.  = ;)

 

Curt

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]=20 On Behalf Of Fred=20 Richards
Sent:=20 Thursday,=20 December 05, 2002 = 8:36=20 PM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] = Fundamental=20 Philosophies

 

And=20 just how much will you charge?  Have you given any = consideration to=20 the costs involved?  Or how many people might sign up for = another=20 stock rating service?

 

It=20 is always great to leverage off other people's work but unless you = can=20 make a profit after all the costs both known and unknown are = caculated,=20 don't  make the number 1 mistake of most entrepreneurs . . . = failing=20 to consider the cost of one's = time.

 

Since I = make a=20 few more dollars than $500 using the DGO and IBD, the cost is only = material to those who don't.

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Curt=20 Corley
Sent: = Thursday,=20 December 05, 2002 8:15 PM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [CANSLIM] = Fundamental=20 Philosophies

Hi,

 

I = hope you=20 don=E2=80=99t mind me changing the subject name of this thread = to something a=20 little more appropriate than NXTL and SXT. =

 

To = answer your=20 question:  Yes, I = would=20 certainly consider purchasing a stock if the ROE was less than = 16.5%=20 with all other factors looking good.  As you know, = I=E2=80=99ve purchased=20 PECS and = MNTR=20 recently -- two stocks that were a lot less perfect than the = theoretical=20 stock you mentioned.  = I get=20 your point, and you are right: =20 an ROE below 17% certainly does not mean the company or = the stock=20 is bad.  But = here=E2=80=99s a=20 situation to consider. =20 Let=E2=80=99s say you have screened 9,100+ stocks, and = came up with a=20 dozen or so stocks that have what you consider to be = near-perfect=20 fundamentals.  And = let=E2=80=99s say=20 a few of those look like they might break out of a base = formation within=20 the next couple of weeks. =20 Would you rather wait around for the possibility that = those=20 stocks with the best fundamentals will break out?  Or would rather = purchase stocks=20 that have already broken out but which have less stellar=20 fundamentals?  = Within a very=20 short time after purchasing = PECS and = MNTR, I=20 saw other stocks with better fundamentals that looked like they = were=20 ready to make a move.  = Of=20 course, that=E2=80=99s a tough thing to watch, and = that=E2=80=99s why I put some thought=20 into this question.  = Given=20 my situation and my personality, I decided I would rather keep = my eye on=20 only the very best ones.  = That=E2=80=99s why I decided last weekend to screen only = the near-perfect=20 ones and keep an eye on those. =20 And now you, Andy, and Tom are starting to make me doubt = that=20 decision.  Thanks = a=20 lot! =20 :)

 

Seriously=20 now:  this has = been a very=20 educational and interesting thread.  Hopefully, by the time = we are=20 through with this, we will have figured out the best overall=20 stock-picking system; then we can start an on-line rating system = and=20 screening service that doesn=E2=80=99t cost $500 a year.  = :)

 

Curt

 

P.S. = =E2=80=93 I would=20 like to open a topic up some time in the future about the use of = earnings estimates.  = But=20 this topic is enough for now. =20 My laptop is over-heating. =20 I=E2=80=99m coming into work tired. =20 And my wife is starting to forget my middle=20 name.

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of = kmalm
Sent: = Thursday, = December 05,=20 2002 = 11:44=20 AM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] = NXTL,=20 SXT

 

Hi=20 Curt,

 

I think you've = identified the=20 stickier issues in CANSLIM and interpreting WON's work. As both = Tom and=20 Andy have pointed out in their posts, while WON may *seem* to be = stating=20 that ROE>=3D17 is a "minimum requirement' it turns out it is = a=20 guidepost to lead you to better quality stocks. As with other=20 indicators, this is based on his historical view of winning = stocks,=20 meaning that "on average" winning stocks had an ROE>=3D17. As = with D/E,=20 ROE can be misleading. For example, if a company rejiggers their = capital=20 structure and increases their outstanding shares, this will have = an=20 immediate impact on the ROE measure. Another way of viewing it = would=20 simply be by asking a question. That is, if you were looking at = a stock=20 and it had a "perfect" cup with handle (ok, it's theoretical!); = high RS=20 Rank; an RS line making new highs; met all other earnings, sales = and=20 profit margin guidelines, and broke out on 150% of ADV, would = you pass=20 it up because it had an ROE of 16.5%? If so, why? Does the "low" = ROE=20 mean that it is not a good company or a good=20 stock?

 

Katherine

 

= - ------=_NextPart_000_02D9_01C29D1A.62CA97B0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:13:25 -0700 From: "David Taggart" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Re: Cost ofr IBD This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00A0_01C29D18.7ECDD5F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While not the most CANSLIMmish tool VLINE is nice and if you go to your = local library and they have it ask if they have the user and password = for the site. A regular print subscription gets a user/pword that way = you can use it from home too. David -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Gene Ricci Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 10:27 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: [CANSLIM] Re: Cost ofr IBD Hi Nancy, much of the 'good' stuff is available on investors.com. You = might want to adopt a trick that we use in Dallas... we go to one of the = bookstores and read it for free. The only kicker is that we buy coffee = and something to eat so we don't really save much money... the cheapest = way is to visit your library and read it (and Value Line) for free. Have a great weekend, Gene ----- Original Message -----=20 From: NANCY POLCARO=20 To: canslim=20 Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Fundamental Philosophies I would just like to put in my opinion if possible. For people who = are just learning the IBD system and doing all the wrong things and not = making money(especially in this market) it is a big expense-on top of no = profits and maybe losing money. For people who have traded for 40 years = and have their own web site and know Bill O'neil personally, I'm sure it = is well worth the money. I think the problem is -how do you learn the = system when you have no stock market background unless you pay that = much money just to try to learn. I had the paper for two years. I = thought I was learning it but in fact I was just doing well because I = was caught up in the last two years of a raging bull market. I let the = paper go when stocks were going no where but down. When the market = turns I will probably try it again but in the mean time it is to big of = an expense to pay for training. Especially if we have a 10 year bear. = Sorry if I ask simple questions right now, but the books and this web = site are where I'm being taught right now. I want to thank everyone on = this site for all the help and training you offer the rest of us. nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Richards Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:35 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Fundamental Philosophies Curt, After some 40 years in this business, I believe that one of the = guidelines my mentor pounded into my head is still applicable. "You get what you pay for in this business." Fred -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Curt Corley Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:22 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Fundamental Philosophies Fred, =20 I was just joking about the online service. Maybe I should have = put a =E2=80=9C;)=E2=80=9D after that statement, instead of a = =E2=80=9C:).=E2=80=9D =20 =20 I agree with the idea that the cost is not very significant if = you are able to make significantly more than $500 using DGO and IBD = =E2=80=93 especially if you are unable to make that amount without DGO. = However, that could very well strengthen the argument in favor of lower = cost, because (1) there are quite a few people out there who are not in = your position and who don=E2=80=99t have the starting capital and/or = skills to make a significant amount over $500, and (2) there are quite a = few people out there who can make significant money without the service. = ;) =20 Curt =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Fred Richards Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:36 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Fundamental Philosophies =20 And just how much will you charge? Have you given any = consideration to the costs involved? Or how many people might sign up = for another stock rating service? =20 It is always great to leverage off other people's work but = unless you can make a profit after all the costs both known and unknown = are caculated, don't make the number 1 mistake of most entrepreneurs . = . . failing to consider the cost of one's time. =20 Since I make a few more dollars than $500 using the DGO and IBD, = the cost is only material to those who don't. -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Curt Corley Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:15 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: [CANSLIM] Fundamental Philosophies Hi, =20 I hope you don=E2=80=99t mind me changing the subject name of = this thread to something a little more appropriate than NXTL and SXT.=20 =20 To answer your question: Yes, I would certainly consider = purchasing a stock if the ROE was less than 16.5% with all other factors = looking good. As you know, I=E2=80=99ve purchased PECS and MNTR = recently -- two stocks that were a lot less perfect than the theoretical = stock you mentioned. I get your point, and you are right: an ROE below = 17% certainly does not mean the company or the stock is bad. But = here=E2=80=99s a situation to consider. Let=E2=80=99s say you have = screened 9,100+ stocks, and came up with a dozen or so stocks that have = what you consider to be near-perfect fundamentals. And let=E2=80=99s = say a few of those look like they might break out of a base formation = within the next couple of weeks. Would you rather wait around for the = possibility that those stocks with the best fundamentals will break out? = Or would rather purchase stocks that have already broken out but which = have less stellar fundamentals? Within a very short time after = purchasing PECS and MNTR, I saw other stocks with better fundamentals = that looked like they were ready to make a move. Of course, = that=E2=80=99s a tough thing to watch, and that=E2=80=99s why I put some = thought into this question. Given my situation and my personality, I = decided I would rather keep my eye on only the very best ones. = That=E2=80=99s why I decided last weekend to screen only the = near-perfect ones and keep an eye on those. And now you, Andy, and Tom = are starting to make me doubt that decision. Thanks a lot! :) =20 Seriously now: this has been a very educational and = interesting thread. Hopefully, by the time we are through with this, we = will have figured out the best overall stock-picking system; then we can = start an on-line rating system and screening service that = doesn=E2=80=99t cost $500 a year. :) =20 Curt =20 P.S. =E2=80=93 I would like to open a topic up some time in = the future about the use of earnings estimates. But this topic is = enough for now. My laptop is over-heating. I=E2=80=99m coming into = work tired. And my wife is starting to forget my middle name. =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of kmalm Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:44 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] NXTL, SXT =20 Hi Curt, =20 I think you've identified the stickier issues in CANSLIM and = interpreting WON's work. As both Tom and Andy have pointed out in their = posts, while WON may *seem* to be stating that ROE>=3D17 is a "minimum = requirement' it turns out it is a guidepost to lead you to better = quality stocks. As with other indicators, this is based on his = historical view of winning stocks, meaning that "on average" winning = stocks had an ROE>=3D17. As with D/E, ROE can be misleading. For = example, if a company rejiggers their capital structure and increases = their outstanding shares, this will have an immediate impact on the ROE = measure. Another way of viewing it would simply be by asking a question. = That is, if you were looking at a stock and it had a "perfect" cup with = handle (ok, it's theoretical!); high RS Rank; an RS line making new = highs; met all other earnings, sales and profit margin guidelines, and = broke out on 150% of ADV, would you pass it up because it had an ROE of = 16.5%? If so, why? Does the "low" ROE mean that it is not a good company = or a good stock? =20 Katherine =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_00A0_01C29D18.7ECDD5F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
While not the = most=20 CANSLIMmish tool VLINE is nice and if you go to your local library and = they have=20 it ask if they have the user and password for the site.  A regular = print=20 subscription gets a user/pword  that way you can use it from home=20 too.
 
David
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Gene=20 Ricci
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 10:27 AM
To: = canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [CANSLIM] Re: Cost ofr=20 IBD

Hi Nancy, much of the = 'good' stuff is=20 available on investors.com. You might want to adopt a trick that we = use in=20 Dallas... we go to one of the bookstores and read it for free. The = only kicker=20 is that we buy coffee and something to eat so we don't really = save much=20 money... the cheapest way is to visit your library and read it = (and Value=20 Line) for free.
 
Have a great = weekend,
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 NANCY = POLCARO=20
To: canslim
Sent: Friday, December 06, = 2002 12:03=20 AM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] = Fundamental=20 Philosophies

I would just like to put in my opinion if possible. For people = who are=20 just learning the IBD system and doing all the wrong things and not = making=20 money(especially in this market) it is a big expense-on top of no = profits=20 and maybe losing money. For people who have traded for 40 years and = have=20 their own web site and know Bill O'neil personally, I'm sure it is = well=20 worth the money.  I think the problem is -how do you learn the=20 system   when you have no stock market = background unless you=20 pay that much  money just to try to learn. I had the paper for = two=20 years.  I thought I was learning it but in fact I was just = doing well=20 because I was caught up in the last two years of a raging bull = market. =20 I let the paper go  when stocks were going no where but = down. =20 When the market turns I will probably try it again but in the mean = time it=20 is to big of an expense to pay for training.  Especially if we = have a=20 10 year bear.  Sorry if I ask simple questions right now, but = the books=20 and this web site are where I'm being taught right now. I want to = thank=20 everyone on this site for all the help and training you offer the = rest of=20 us.  nancy
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Fred Richards
Sent: Thursday, December = 05, 2002=20 9:35 PM
To: = canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] = Fundamental=20 Philosophies
 
Curt,
 
After some 40 years in this business, I believe that one = of the=20 guidelines my mentor pounded into my head is still=20 applicable.
 
"You get what you pay for in this = business."
 
Fred
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of = Curt=20 Corley
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:22 = PM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] = Fundamental=20 Philosophies

Fred,

 

I was = just=20 joking about the online service. =20 Maybe I should have put a =E2=80=9C;)=E2=80=9D after that = statement, instead of a=20 =E2=80=9C:).=E2=80=9D =20

 

I = agree with=20 the idea that the cost is not very significant if you are able = to make=20 significantly more than $500 using DGO and IBD =E2=80=93 = especially if you are=20 unable to make that amount without DGO.  However, that could = very well=20 strengthen the argument in favor of lower cost, because (1) = there are=20 quite a few people out there who are not in your position and = who don=E2=80=99t=20 have the starting capital and/or skills to make a significant = amount=20 over $500, and (2) there are quite a few people out there who = can make=20 significant money without the service.  = ;)

 

Curt

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Fred=20 Richards
Sent:=20 Thursday,=20 December 05, 2002 = 8:36=20 PM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] = Fundamental=20 Philosophies

 

And = just how=20 much will you charge?  Have you given any consideration to = the=20 costs involved?  Or how many people might sign up for = another stock=20 rating service?

 

It is = always=20 great to leverage off other people's work but unless you can = make a=20 profit after all the costs both known and unknown are caculated, = don't  make the number 1 mistake of most entrepreneurs . . = .=20 failing to consider the cost of one's=20 time.

 

Since = I make a=20 few more dollars than $500 using the DGO and IBD, the cost is = only=20 material to those who don't.

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Curt=20 Corley
Sent:=20 Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:15 PM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [CANSLIM] = Fundamental=20 Philosophies

Hi,

 

I = hope you=20 don=E2=80=99t mind me changing the subject name of this thread = to something a=20 little more appropriate than NXTL and SXT.=20

 

To = answer=20 your question:  = Yes, I=20 would certainly consider purchasing a stock if the ROE was = less than=20 16.5% with all other factors looking good.  As you know, = I=E2=80=99ve purchased=20 PECS = and MNTR=20 recently -- two stocks that were a lot less perfect than the=20 theoretical stock you mentioned. =20 I get your point, and you are right:  an ROE below 17% = certainly=20 does not mean the company or the stock is bad.  But here=E2=80=99s a = situation to=20 consider.  = Let=E2=80=99s say you=20 have screened 9,100+ stocks, and came up with a dozen or so = stocks=20 that have what you consider to be near-perfect = fundamentals.  And let=E2=80=99s = say a few of those=20 look like they might break out of a base formation within the = next=20 couple of weeks.  = Would=20 you rather wait around for the possibility that those stocks = with the=20 best fundamentals will break out?  Or would rather = purchase=20 stocks that have already broken out but which have less = stellar=20 fundamentals?  = Within a=20 very short time after purchasing=20 PECS = and MNTR, I=20 saw other stocks with better fundamentals that looked like = they were=20 ready to make a move.  = Of=20 course, that=E2=80=99s a tough thing to watch, and = that=E2=80=99s why I put some=20 thought into this question. =20 Given my situation and my personality, I decided I = would rather=20 keep my eye on only the very best ones.  That=E2=80=99s why I = decided last=20 weekend to screen only the near-perfect ones and keep an eye = on=20 those.  And now = you, Andy,=20 and Tom are starting to make me doubt that decision.  Thanks a lot! =20 :)

 

Seriously=20 now:  this has = been a very=20 educational and interesting thread.  Hopefully, by the = time we are=20 through with this, we will have figured out the best overall=20 stock-picking system; then we can start an on-line rating = system and=20 screening service that doesn=E2=80=99t cost $500 a year. =20 :)

 

Curt

 

P.S. =E2=80=93 I=20 would like to open a topic up some time in the future about = the use of=20 earnings estimates.  = But=20 this topic is enough for now. =20 My laptop is over-heating.  I=E2=80=99m coming = into work=20 tired.  And my = wife is=20 starting to forget my middle = name.

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of = kmalm
Sent: = Thursday, = December 05,=20 2002 = 11:44=20 AM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] = NXTL,=20 SXT

 

Hi=20 Curt,

 

I think=20 you've identified the stickier issues in CANSLIM and = interpreting=20 WON's work. As both Tom and Andy have pointed out in their = posts,=20 while WON may *seem* to be stating that ROE>=3D17 is a = "minimum=20 requirement' it turns out it is a guidepost to lead you to = better=20 quality stocks. As with other indicators, this is based on his = historical view of winning stocks, meaning that "on average" = winning=20 stocks had an ROE>=3D17. As with D/E, ROE can be = misleading. For=20 example, if a company rejiggers their capital structure and = increases=20 their outstanding shares, this will have an immediate impact = on the=20 ROE measure. Another way of viewing it would simply be by = asking a=20 question. That is, if you were looking at a stock and it had a = "perfect" cup with handle (ok, it's theoretical!); high RS = Rank; an RS=20 line making new highs; met all other earnings, sales and = profit margin=20 guidelines, and broke out on 150% of ADV, would you pass it up = because=20 it had an ROE of 16.5%? If so, why? Does the "low" ROE mean = that it is=20 not a good company or a good = stock?

 

Katherine

 

=
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