From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #519 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Wednesday, February 3 1999 Volume 02 : Number 519 In this issue: [CANSLIM] FLEX [CANSLIM] Trading stocks on breakout [Technical stuff. Connie Mack] RE: [CANSLIM] FLEX [CANSLIM] Go figure! [CANSLIM] CMED Re: [CANSLIM] FLEX (JOE J.) [CANSLIM] Definition of a base RE: [CANSLIM] FLEX RE: [CANSLIM] FLEX [CANSLIM] CANSLIM and Day Jobs Re: [CANSLIM] FLEX Re: [CANSLIM] Re: [CANSLIM] CANSLIM and Day Jobs [CANSLIM] Accessing the discussion canslim archives... Re: [CANSLIM] FLEX Re: [CANSLIM] FLEX RE: [CANSLIM] FLEX Re: [CANSLIM] CANSLIM and Day Jobs Re: [CANSLIM] CANSLIM and Day Jobs Re: [CANSLIM] CANSLIM and Day Jobs RE: [CANSLIM] Re: [CANSLIM] CANSLIM and Day Jobs Re: [CANSLIM] FLEX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 15:40:24 -0700 From: "Joe J." Subject: [CANSLIM] FLEX Charlie: Some comment on your FLEX trade: I agree with Patrick, you just don't sound like someone with a solid game plan yet. "It was down a little" is probably not how you want to find buys. Now, this is not to say that you should not buy a stock which is down but have a solid reason you can test and see that it has worked in the past like it was down to it's 20 day moving average and was turning back up and the 3 day MA crossed back over the 20 day, etc. However, I also agree with Patrick that you really are probably better off buying off a base breakout (which is very WON). There are probably endless ways to find bases but I know from other posts you have made that you have Bill Williams' books. Take a look at "New Trading Dimensions" and the chapter on the 3 moving averages coming together (the alligator) and how to buy/short off of these bases via the fractals. Having read his books and used his systems, I would skip a lot of the stuff on adding to your positions via the AO and AC (but do check to see that the AO is at or around the zero level) on your new positions. Then use the stops he recommends which you will know ahead of time and which help you to decide how much to risk and how many shares you want to trade. Just using this method alone in you pursute of new trades to enter will save you much grief. If CANSLIM is your bag, first come up with your list of CS stocks then plot Williams' indicators on that list. I started doing this a couple of weeks ago to the list that Ron posts each week. As a result, I am in CMED. Normally, I don't really care if a stock meets CS or not (I'm not even sure CMED does since I haven't looked at it from a CS standpoint) as I simply scan high volume stocks via the Williams methods but I figured I do a bit of experimenting with the combination of Ron's scan and my own. Good trading, Joe J. > I picked up FLEX today. It was down a little. I figure it is a good stock. > One of the best actually. It is a little extended. OTOH, it did correct a > little. The main reason it got the nod instead of ORCL is the fact that the > 50 EMA is not far below the current price. I put my stop a little below it. > I think it is fairly safe unless some gorilla jumps in and sells a bazillion > shares and blows out everyone's stops. That is what usually happens to me. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:44:40 -0500 From: Connie Mack Rea Subject: [CANSLIM] Trading stocks on breakout [Technical stuff. Connie Mack] On the site below, there are a couple of essays by the same writer. Though a trader, he makes use of strategies useful to CSers. E.g., he only buys breakouts and uses IBD to do his scanning. Be sure to read his September essay. You can click on it from within his column. The essays are further instances that some strategies of traders are not inimical to those of investors. http://archive.thestreet.com/980330/Commentary/techtake/27209_3301998.html Connie Mack - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:17:29 -0500 From: "Charles Cangialosi" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] FLEX Unfortunately I believe you are correct. I have Trading Chaos, I guess there is another book. I will order it from Amazon tonight. I like the canslim concept, as it pertains getting stocks that have just broken out from a base. I did not stick to that. I should make a set of rules and just stick to it (as long as it works). Connie posted an internet address that had an article connected to it. I liked it, because I understood it. So much of this gets confusing. High jumps, and optics and all sorts of buzz words. I think I will work on a strategy and type it in my diary and just stick to it. BTW, I really like "Trading for a Living" by Elder. So far it is my favorite. I does nothing for picking stocks but is great for entry and exit strategies. I deviated from that on FLEX and got hammered. Charlie > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Joe J. > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 5:40 PM > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Subject: [CANSLIM] FLEX > > > Charlie: > > Some comment on your FLEX trade: > > I agree with Patrick, you just don't sound like someone with a solid > game plan yet. "It was down a little" is probably not how you want to > find buys. Now, this is not to say that you should not buy a stock > which is down but have a solid reason you can test and see that it has > worked in the past like it was down to it's 20 day moving average and > was turning back up and the 3 day MA crossed back over the 20 day, etc. > However, I also agree with Patrick that you really are probably better > off buying off a base breakout (which is very WON). There are probably > endless ways to find bases but I know from other posts you have made > that you have Bill Williams' books. Take a look at "New Trading > Dimensions" and the chapter on the 3 moving averages coming together > (the alligator) and how to buy/short off of these bases via the > fractals. > > Having read his books and used his systems, I would skip a lot of the > stuff on adding to your positions via the AO and AC (but do check to see > that the AO is at or around the zero level) on your new positions. Then > use the stops he recommends which you will know ahead of time and which > help you to decide how much to risk and how many shares you want to > trade. > > Just using this method alone in you pursute of new trades to enter will > save you much grief. If CANSLIM is your bag, first come up with your > list of CS stocks then plot Williams' indicators on that list. I > started doing this a couple of weeks ago to the list that Ron posts each > week. As a result, I am in CMED. Normally, I don't really care if a > stock meets CS or not (I'm not even sure CMED does since I haven't > looked at it from a CS standpoint) as I simply scan high volume stocks > via the Williams methods but I figured I do a bit of experimenting with > the combination of Ron's scan and my own. > > Good trading, > Joe J. > > > I picked up FLEX today. It was down a little. I figure it is a good > stock. > > One of the best actually. It is a little extended. OTOH, it did > correct a > > little. The main reason it got the nod instead of ORCL is the fact > that the > > 50 EMA is not far below the current price. I put my stop a little > below it. > > I think it is fairly safe unless some gorilla jumps in and sells a > bazillion > > shares and blows out everyone's stops. That is what usually happens to > me. > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:55:53 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: [CANSLIM] Go figure! Leave it to a small cap, and the Motley Fool, to have an under $2.00 stock averaging 3,000 shares a day jump to 9.375 on 5.3 million shares. The "new" part of this stock (NTFY) is that it allows users to check their email inbox for new mail without having to turn on the computer. Can we get any lazier? Course, if I had discovered this one on Friday or Monday, maybe I wouldn't be so cynical. But then, lacking earnings and with such a low price, I would have ignored it anyway. Tom W stkguru@netside.net ICQ # 5568838 - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:16:39 -0800 From: David Reid Subject: [CANSLIM] CMED This one is from my watch list it looks like it is getting ready to go..(maybe) Volume way up today. Good earnings report. opinions are appreciated David > > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:21:02 -0800 From: David Reid Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] FLEX (JOE J.) I read your post after I sent my last email I see your in CMED already I was gonna wait until it broke out because It did this once before and failed the breakout.. David "Joe J." wrote: > Charlie: > > Some comment on your FLEX trade: > > I agree with Patrick, you just don't sound like someone with a solid > game plan yet. "It was down a little" is probably not how you want to > find buys. Now, this is not to say that you should not buy a stock > which is down but have a solid reason you can test and see that it has > worked in the past like it was down to it's 20 day moving average and > was turning back up and the 3 day MA crossed back over the 20 day, etc. > However, I also agree with Patrick that you really are probably better > off buying off a base breakout (which is very WON). There are probably > endless ways to find bases but I know from other posts you have made > that you have Bill Williams' books. Take a look at "New Trading > Dimensions" and the chapter on the 3 moving averages coming together > (the alligator) and how to buy/short off of these bases via the > fractals. > > Having read his books and used his systems, I would skip a lot of the > stuff on adding to your positions via the AO and AC (but do check to see > that the AO is at or around the zero level) on your new positions. Then > use the stops he recommends which you will know ahead of time and which > help you to decide how much to risk and how many shares you want to > trade. > > Just using this method alone in you pursute of new trades to enter will > save you much grief. If CANSLIM is your bag, first come up with your > list of CS stocks then plot Williams' indicators on that list. I > started doing this a couple of weeks ago to the list that Ron posts each > week. As a result, I am in CMED. Normally, I don't really care if a > stock meets CS or not (I'm not even sure CMED does since I haven't > looked at it from a CS standpoint) as I simply scan high volume stocks > via the Williams methods but I figured I do a bit of experimenting with > the combination of Ron's scan and my own. > > Good trading, > Joe J. > > > I picked up FLEX today. It was down a little. I figure it is a good > stock. > > One of the best actually. It is a little extended. OTOH, it did > correct a > > little. The main reason it got the nod instead of ORCL is the fact > that the > > 50 EMA is not far below the current price. I put my stop a little > below it. > > I think it is fairly safe unless some gorilla jumps in and sells a > bazillion > > shares and blows out everyone's stops. That is what usually happens to > me. > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:55:33 -0800 From: Quan Tran Subject: [CANSLIM] Definition of a base List members, Since we are on the subject of buying stocks which break out of base. It would be nice to have QP does the scanning for you. Has anyone written a QP scan for bases? Quan Tran qt@qware.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:07:38 -0700 From: "Dan Sutton" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] FLEX Charlie, It sounds to me like you are going through the same learning phase that all traders/investors have to experience. I am probably not the right person to be advising anyone, but I feel that after 12 years of wallowing in investment advice I have finally arrived at the "other side". I am not a pro by any means, but I have had three extremely lucrative years in a row because I am familiar with and comfortable with my trading methods. Over the past 12 years I have subscribed to almost every investment newsletter that could find my address, most "Hot" investment magazines, a couple of fax hotlines, a toll free advisory service, managed commodities accounts and about every other form of supposed advice I could find. Had I simply saved the subscription fees and put them in an interest bearing account, I would have been thousands of dollars ahead of the game. About three years ago, I came to the realization that the only person in the world who could help me to become a successful trader was myself, so I dropped all my subscriptions and advisory services. Although there are probably thousands of successful investors out there, I seriously doubt if you, or any one else could emulate their success. So I bought lots of books, and some software to test the theories of the authors. As I began to dive into this process of learning, several recurrent themes became evident. Almost all books and magazine articles that I read emphasize developing a system, and many of those successful systems work off of some type of moving average. Some people can be successful with a strictly CANSLIM approach, some do well with HGS, some do well with trading moving averages, some want to buy and hold..but if properly applied they can all work. The key is to develop a trading system that works for you, not to try and work within the rigid guidelines of someone else's method. CANSLIM provides an outstanding framework in which to build your system around....but don't trade it blindly. And keep it simple, the fewer rules the better. Backtest your ideas, run your trading software backwards to try and find proper patterns, learn EXCEL so you can program formulas easily. So with all the extraneous BS out of the way, here are my suggestions .. (Keep in mind that this is what works for me, you will need to flesh it out for your own risk level). 1. Pick up some software to download and graph prices on a daily basis (I use Super Charts) 2. Develop a list of stock candidates. Use WON's criteria, as well as Ian Woodards. (High EPS, High RS, etc., etc), and ONLY buy those stocks with good earnings records 3. Develop a trading trigger that you are comfortable with ( moving average crossovers, volume breakouts, ADX, Elder's Triple Screen..it really doesn't matter if you apply it consistently). If you can't easily recognize cup and handles, flags, bases, etc., then don't try to trade with them 4. Don't try and trade every opportunity, there will be another ship leaving in a few days 5. Don't daytrade (unless you are a pro) 6. Don't watch the quotes during the day 7. Only make buy and sell decisions at the end of the day, after you have had time to verify your reasoning 8. Don't keep changing your philosophy, screening method or triggers 9. Use strict money management. Just like in Blackjack, even if you are playing a winning method and are ahead of the house on winning percentages ...if you don't practice strict money management you are going to go broke. 10. Be happy with only taking a chunk out of the middle, you don't need to pick the lowest entry point or highest exit point to be successful 11. Have a target for an exit price before you enter the trade (do some reasonable projections..don't just wish). 12. And like Ian says...if you see a guru d'jour , run like hell Your system has to work for you, don't try and force yourself into someone else's mold. Good luck - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:42:06 -0500 From: "Charles Cangialosi" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] FLEX Sounds good to me. I would like to clarify a few things. Perhaps there are other newbies out there who are reluctant to jump in but to whom your advice could apply. I'm glad you mentioned you have been through this. I was feeling like I really have no talent for this at all, but I am not giving up. Not having talent only means you have to work harder and will probably never be a superstar. It does not mean you cant be good at it. The only newsletter I get is Ian. So far I have gotten two issues. I like the canslim concept. It's vague though, so is the market. Ian I like a lot but he is complicated. Then so is the market. I really like Elder's triple screen. I ignored that with FLEX. If I would have paid attention to it I could not have made the trade. Last time that happens. Your 1-12 suggestions are great. I don't know what you mean by make formulas in Excel. I am acquainted with though, I'm no expert at Excel. I am not acquainted with super charts. I have been using QP2. I just got the IRL it's OK. I also have WOW. The charting capabilities are much better. I transfer in meta stock format to that. Will this do? I am about decided to trade on breakouts either from a cup or a base. I am working on the other patterns you mentioned but cant even get the base straight yet, when I do I will move on. So I am considering a breakout on 150% volume, has to be a new high. No overhead supply. Has to meet the triple screen criteria for a trade. Of course it has to have good RS and Earnings at least 70. My big failing as I see it is going with the method deJour (SP). Getting carried away in the emotion of it is something I really need to work on. I hope all this bandwidth helps someone besides me. I am sure the graybeards are tired of all this newbie screw up stuff. If any other newbies want to contribute please do so I wont feel so alone. Charlie > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dan Sutton > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 12:08 AM > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] FLEX > > > Charlie, > > It sounds to me like you are going through the same learning > phase that all > traders/investors have to experience. I am probably not the right > person to > be advising anyone, but I feel that after 12 years of wallowing in > investment advice I have finally arrived at the "other side". I > am not a pro > by any means, but I have had three extremely lucrative years in a row > because I am familiar with and comfortable with my trading > methods. Over the > past 12 years I have subscribed to almost every investment newsletter that > could find my address, most "Hot" investment magazines, a couple of fax > hotlines, a toll free advisory service, managed commodities accounts and > about every other form of supposed advice I could find. Had I simply saved > the subscription fees and put them in an interest bearing account, I would > have been thousands of dollars ahead of the game. About three years ago, I > came to the realization that the only person in the world who > could help me > to become a successful trader was myself, so I dropped all my > subscriptions > and advisory services. Although there are probably thousands of successful > investors out there, I seriously doubt if you, or any one else > could emulate > their success. So I bought lots of books, and some software to test the > theories of the authors. As I began to dive into this process of > learning, > several recurrent themes became evident. Almost all books and magazine > articles that I read emphasize developing a system, and many of those > successful systems work off of some type of moving average. Some > people can > be successful with a strictly CANSLIM approach, some do well with > HGS, some > do well with trading moving averages, some want to buy and hold..but if > properly applied they can all work. The key is to develop a trading system > that works for you, not to try and work within the rigid guidelines of > someone else's method. CANSLIM provides an outstanding framework > in which to > build your system around....but don't trade it blindly. And keep > it simple, > the fewer rules the better. Backtest your ideas, run your > trading software > backwards to try and find proper patterns, learn EXCEL so you can program > formulas easily. So with all the extraneous BS out of the way, here are my > suggestions .. (Keep in mind that this is what works for me, you will need > to flesh it out for your own risk level). > > 1. Pick up some software to download and graph prices on a daily basis (I > use Super Charts) > 2. Develop a list of stock candidates. Use WON's criteria, as well as Ian > Woodards. (High EPS, High RS, etc., etc), and ONLY buy those stocks with > good earnings records > 3. Develop a trading trigger that you are comfortable with > moving average > crossovers, volume breakouts, ADX, Elder's Triple Screen..it > really doesn't > matter if you apply it consistently). If you can't easily > recognize cup and > handles, flags, bases, etc., then don't try to trade with them > 4. Don't try and trade every opportunity, there will be another > ship leaving > in a few days > 5. Don't daytrade (unless you are a pro) > 6. Don't watch the quotes during the day > 7. Only make buy and sell decisions at the end of the day, after you have > had time to verify your reasoning > 8. Don't keep changing your philosophy, screening method or triggers > 9. Use strict money management. Just like in Blackjack, even if you are > playing a winning method and are ahead of the house on winning percentages > ...if you don't practice strict money management you are going to > go broke. > 10. Be happy with only taking a chunk out of the middle, you don't need to > pick the lowest entry point or highest exit point to be successful > 11. Have a target for an exit price before you enter the trade (do some > reasonable projections..don't just wish). > 12. And like Ian says...if you see a guru d'jour , run like hell > > Your system has to work for you, don't try and force yourself into someone > else's mold. > > Good luck > > > > > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:02:06 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Thornlow Subject: [CANSLIM] CANSLIM and Day Jobs I am trying mightily to learn the system as best I can, going slowly and picking up the basics and moving on to the next level. I subscribe to IDB, blanch at the thought when it comes to DGO or hard copy Daily Graphs, but here is my question: I work hard everyday 0630 - 1630, and then have to work at home (family stuff), leaving very few hours in the day to do CANSLIM research. In y'alls opinion, am I going down the wrong track in trying to do CANSLIM or should I stick with something that doesn't take as much time. The more I get involved in CS, the more time it seems it will need to take. Just looking for opinions. Thanx in advance. ct _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:53:13 -0500 From: "Thomas A. Moulton" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] FLEX Charles, IMHO if you can do better than break even all the time you are a Star and if you can make a 10% or better profit over time then you are a super star, better than that then it's SUPERSTAR time... :) Remember for every trade there is a Winner and a Loser and the professionals do it all day every day... tom m - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 07:53:45 -0700 From: Dan Sutton Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Charlie, Please keep in mind that my ramblings are simply my opinion, and I have no doubt that that there are probably equally sound arguments for the opposite viewpoint. In the investing arena, talent comes from experience, and you need both good and bad experiences to be come talented. If you win on every trade you are not talented, you are lucky.=20 As far as tutors go, I think Ian is probably one of the best. He uses sound arguments for his decisions, but yes his phrases, buzzwords and euphemisms are confusing. I ended up creating a database in MSACCESS to enter any ideas I thought had merit, whether they were from Ian, WON, a newsletter or some book I was reading. I used keywords from each article to allow me to look up thoughts on whatever topic I selected. This allowed me to see what all these people thought about entry points, exit points, moving averages, etc., and it was very enlightening. I don't use QP2, WOW or IRL but if you can backtest ideas with them I am sure they are sufficient. I use TELESCAN and Supercharts and I can test historic validity on fundamentals as well as technical analysis. If you can transfer price data from your programs to a text file that EXCEL can read, then you can write formulas to backtest trading ideas as well as do some charting. If breakouts work for you, refine your trading to that, learn to recognize them quickly, find out what typically contributes to them and learn to identify the candidates early. Getting caught up in the emotion of a trade is an easy thing to do. I found that becoming emotional about a trade was usually caused by overtrading. I had so much on the line, it had to be a winner. That takes us back to the money management comment I made earlier. If you HAVE to win on this trade, you are committing too much to it. I also found I would delay selling a stock because I "knew" it was going higher=85.another mistake. If the technicals at the end of the day tell you to get out=85..DO IT. It also helps to keep a diary of your trades. Why did you get in, why did you get out, what would you have done differently, etc, etc. Review this on a frequent basis, don't relearn or re-experience your errors.=20 Develop a philosophy, a system, and a routine. Then stick to it.=20 Good Luck. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:59:40 -0500 From: "Thomas A. Moulton" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] CANSLIM and Day Jobs Chris, You need to grab anyone's list of "good" stocks and then filter it by hand to find the stocks that have the best earnings and large average volume... Then take the top 5 or 10 or 15... depending upon how many you have to monitor on a daily[nightly] basis... I steal an hour in the AM before the kids get up... A recurring theme this week... take the techniques and mold them into what works for You! Test things on paper first to get sure of yourself... tom m - - ------------------------------ Date: 3 Feb 1999 08:00:01 -0700 From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com (Jeff Salisbury) Subject: [CANSLIM] Accessing the discussion canslim archives... From time to time, CANSLIM members may wish to browse the discussion archives. This posting provides instructions on how to access the archives. Thanks to David Cameron for compiling the essentials of this message. Here are the two ways to access the archives: 1. The best way is to use your web browser. To browse the archives, point your browser to: http://www.xmission.com/~mcjathan/cgi/lwgate.cgi/CANSLIM/ You can do simple key-word searches on the archive by going to: http://www.xmission.com/~mcjathan/canslim/search.html 2. (Not as convenient) via email: Send an email to majordomo@xmission.com with the following as the body of your message: "index canslim". Then send a follow up email to request an old email from either the "archive" or "latest" directory. Note that your request must be in the body of your email. For example: "get canslim latest/001" will retrieve file "001" from the "latest" directory. "get canslim archive/v01.n066" will retrieve file "v01.n066" from the "archive" dir. Best Regards, Jeff Salisbury - CANSLIM list owner/admin - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 07:38:48 -0800 From: Tim Fisher Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] FLEX Guess I don't understand what you are saying here, do you mean 10% on every trade or over the long term? IMO if you can't at least generate a better than money market return you should just throw your money into the Vanguard 500 and forget about it. I suspect that most informed individual investors have returned at least 20% over the past two years, which, while it isn't even keeping up with the major indices, is nonetheless a very good rate of return in the long haul. At 09:53 AM 2/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >Charles, > >IMHO if you can do better than break even all the time you are a Star >and if you can make a 10% or better profit >over time then you are a super star, better than that then it's >SUPERSTAR time... :) > >Remember for every trade there is a Winner and a Loser and the >professionals do it all day every day... > >tom m > > >- > Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site PFB Information mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:52:13 -0500 From: "Thomas A. Moulton" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] FLEX Tim Fisher wrote: > Guess I don't understand what you are saying here, do you mean 10% on every > trade or over the long term? IMO if you can't at least generate a better than > money market return you should just throw your money into the Vanguard 500 and > forget about it. I suspect that most informed individual investors have > returned at least 20% over the past two years, which, while it isn't even > keeping up with the major indices, is nonetheless a very good rate of return in > the long haul. So I picked a low rate of return... I was speaking of long term... change what i said to 20% or 25%... but don't get too greedy... I think you need to get good at 10% annual before you can try for 20% annual... Else you may get greedy and emotional and make mistakes and lose 20% per month... It is much easier to Lose 20% per month than it is to Earn 10% per year! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:54:09 -0500 From: "Charles Cangialosi" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] FLEX Hi Tom, If what you say is true I need to give up now. I don't think I can agree with you though. I think some people do better than 10%. I havent but I am working on fixing that. Charlie > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Thomas A. Moulton > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 9:53 AM > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] FLEX > > > Charles, > > IMHO if you can do better than break even all the time you are a Star > and if you can make a 10% or better profit > over time then you are a super star, better than that then it's > SUPERSTAR time... :) > > Remember for every trade there is a Winner and a Loser and the > professionals do it all day every day... > > tom m > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:27:05 +0100 From: Johan Van Houtven Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] CANSLIM and Day Jobs >A recurring theme this week... take the techniques and mold them >into what works for You! It's a fine idea and suggestion, and it is basically correct. However I can image (and have already heard) the responses: - - I do not have the time to research / study the available techniques, methodes and what have you. Besides many, many people are just plain too lazy and that is their good right. - - How long is it going to take for a total newbie to get an idea of all or some of the available methods and techniques and test them? How much money and time is that going to cost him? For many it is a gigantic task. The masses want to make a quick buck. That is why the internet is full of "hot tips" sites and stock tip mailing lists. - - You have to be a real tough one to ignore all those stocks that are shooting up while you are doing all this necessary research to find a method that is good for you. I can already image the wife saying "Well Dagobert, you have been studying and researching for almost a year now, in the meanwhile Microsoft and Dell have advanced more than 50% each, when are you finally going to make us some money?? And BTW please don't forget to mow the lawn, OK? In a way it's all very funny, but for many it is not... >Test things on paper first to get sure >of yourself... For me personally that wouldn't have worked. There is little to no emotional involvement in papre trading. It has it benefits, no doubt. But you will miss one of the most important factors in succesful investing/trading: controlling your (irrational) emotions. Just some quick comments and not directed at anyone in particular. - -- Johan Van Houtven - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:34:52 -0500 From: "Thomas A. Moulton" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] CANSLIM and Day Jobs I agree with you but... > >Test things on paper first to get sure > >of yourself... > > For me personally that wouldn't have worked. There is little to no > emotional involvement in papre trading. It has it benefits, no doubt. But > you will miss one of the most important factors in succesful > investing/trading: controlling your (irrational) emotions. > > Just some quick comments and not directed at anyone in particular. > > -- Johan Van Houtven > > - If you can't make a profit on paper (or a internet game) they no way should you try with real money... I have done some trading, I've done more via online games and I'm getting more reliable. The transition from reliable paper to real money (FOR ME) is an easier (less costly) than from nothing to real money... Ignore the fact that it's called a game and take it seriously, if you can control your emotions like that then it's a good lession in self control as well... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:48:50 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Thornlow Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] CANSLIM and Day Jobs just so that everyone doesn't think I'm out to make the quick buck and that's all, I've been investing for a few years (about 10). Started out with mutual funds, moved on to the dogs of the Dow, and then in to some growth stock I believe are good for the long hall (MSFT, LU, CSO, DELL). Of course, long haul is a subjective viewpoint, for sure, but intend on keeping these for a few years, monitoring their progress along the way. I have now stepped up to the CANSLIM (CS) method, something I have been following for about 5 years, butonly recently have actually invested money in to it. My portfolios (IRAs and such) are a mixture of thoe growth stocks already mentioned and the CS stocks, to which this point I have none (closed out some positions late last year, all three hit 20 percent and then stopped out on the down, locking in gains). We aren't talking the kkings ransom in the amount of money, but it's what I have and it makes me happy. I guess the reason I posted the message is for some insight on how much time people on the this mail list actually spend on the CS methodology, especially those that do not work in the business and can not follow their picks or prospects all day long. Hope this clarifies. Thanx to those that have already responded. vr, CT _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:58:48 -0500 From: "Charles Cangialosi" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Dan, I understand. I take everything here as a persons opinion. I happen to like yours. I have formulated my next stratagy. It is about what I sent before. I appreciate your help. Thanks Charlie > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dan Sutton > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 9:54 AM > To: canslim@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] > > > Charlie, > > Please keep in mind that my ramblings are simply my opinion, and I have > no doubt that that there are probably equally sound arguments for the > opposite viewpoint. In the investing arena, talent comes from > experience, and you need both good and bad experiences to be come > talented. If you win on every trade you are not talented, you are lucky. > > As far as tutors go, I think Ian is probably one of the best. He uses > sound arguments for his decisions, but yes his phrases, buzzwords and > euphemisms are confusing. I ended up creating a database in MSACCESS to > enter any ideas I thought had merit, whether they were from Ian, WON, a > newsletter or some book I was reading. I used keywords from each article > to allow me to look up thoughts on whatever topic I selected. This > allowed me to see what all these people thought about entry points, exit > points, moving averages, etc., and it was very enlightening. > > I don't use QP2, WOW or IRL but if you can backtest ideas with them I am > sure they are sufficient. I use TELESCAN and Supercharts and I can test > historic validity on fundamentals as well as technical analysis. If you > can transfer price data from your programs to a text file that EXCEL can > read, then you can write formulas to backtest trading ideas as well as > do some charting. If breakouts work for you, refine your trading to > that, learn to recognize them quickly, find out what typically > contributes to them and learn to identify the candidates early. > > Getting caught up in the emotion of a trade is an easy thing to do. I > found that becoming emotional about a trade was usually caused by > overtrading. I had so much on the line, it had to be a winner. That > takes us back to the money management comment I made earlier. If you > HAVE to win on this trade, you are committing too much to it. I also > found I would delay selling a stock because I "knew" it was going > higher….another mistake. If the technicals at the end of the day tell > you to get out…..DO IT. > > It also helps to keep a diary of your trades. Why did you get in, why > did you get out, what would you have done differently, etc, etc. Review > this on a frequent basis, don't relearn or re-experience your errors. > > Develop a philosophy, a system, and a routine. Then stick to it. > > Good Luck. > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:44:00 -0500 From: "james sullivan" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] CANSLIM and Day Jobs >In y'alls opinion, am I going down the wrong track in >trying to do CANSLIM or should I stick with something that doesn't >take as much time. The more I get involved in CS, the more time it >seems it will need to take. > >Just looking for opinions. Thanx in advance. i think the only prudent thing that would take less time and be reliable, with reference to the markets, would be mutual funds....possibly consider investing in mutuals until you get a better hang of CS and like what you are seeing in your paper trades...be comfortable with what you are doing....your state of mind is very important...if you find CS too demanding in the time category, attempt setting goals and aspire to meet those goals...learn to learn....just an opinion...your welcome - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:59:39 -0800 From: "Steve" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] FLEX You could have made 28% last year in a 500 fund or SPY and slept through the whole thing! Why trade if you can't beat that? The problem is that it's boring to sit in a fund. I underwent a serious self-examination, and have concluded that the reason I trade is the same as the reason I like to go to Las Vegas. It's not a good reason for risking my serious money. Every point less than the index is a loss when you can just buy the index. Put another way, if you made 20% last year, you lost 8% Steve Grier scgjd@ix.netcom.com - -----Original Message----- From: Thomas A. Moulton To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] FLEX Charles, IMHO if you can do better than break even all the time you are a Star and if you can make a 10% or better profit over time then you are a super star, better than that then it's SUPERSTAR time... :) Remember for every trade there is a Winner and a Loser and the professionals do it all day every day... tom m - - - - ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #519 ***************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.