From: owner-exotica-digest@lists.xmission.com (exotica-digest) To: exotica-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: exotica-digest V2 #768 Reply-To: exotica-digest Sender: owner-exotica-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-exotica-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes exotica-digest Monday, July 31 2000 Volume 02 : Number 768 In This Digest: Re: (exotica) Napster... (exotica) NAPOLEON COMPLEX Re: (exotica) Napsterrrrrrr Re: (exotica) Napsterrrrrrr Re: (exotica) Promotion VS Asskissing Re: (exotica) Napster... Re: (exotica) Napster...(permission) Re: (exotica) Napster...(permission) Re: (exotica) Napster... Re: (exotica) Napster...(permission) (exotica) Napster: The irony (exotica) I smasha u mouth Re: (exotica) Napsterrrrrrr Re: (exotica) I smasha u mouth Re: (exotica) Napster: The irony Re: (exotica) Napster... Re: (exotica) Napster... Re: (exotica) Trader Vic's Drink Mixes....... Re: (exotica) Napster... Re: Re: (exotica) Napster... (exotica) Re: napster Re: (exotica) Napster... Re: (exotica) Re: napster RE: (exotica) Re: napster - and some finds at the bottom (exotica) Finally, a decent record score! Re: (exotica) Napster... Re: (exotica) napster ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:18:11 -0700 From: Kevin Crossman Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster... Mimi Mayer wrote: > > Tiki Bob wrote: > > >if you really feel that things like napster are copyright infringement, then > >you better never sample others works, copy music (no matter how long out of > >production) or join groups like the exotica ring --- all of which promote > >wide scale copyright infringement. > > > >as for me? i will continue to copy and download like a bastard. for those > >who have received CD's from me -- you will notice that my CD's are produced > >by "Bootleg Productions - With no rights observed." > > Gotta ask you a question, Tiki Bob. You admire and respect Martin Denny; > you've made this clear in many posts, and some of them have been quite > touching. I'm just wondering how you square this admiration with copying > and downloading like a bastard. Don't you see that you are harming your > idol (and other musicians you dig) by depriving them of income they deserve > when you reproduce their intellectual creations with no rights reserved? > > Really, I'm just wondering. Mimi I have stayed out of this fray for a while, but I believe this is the essential argument. For those that don't give a damn about the artist, it is oh so easy to steal, steal, steal. Very much akin to making a copy of somebody else's CD. You want the music enough to listen to it but you would never pay for it (well, never pay for it at RIAA prices..) For those that love the artists, services like Napster serve two useful and reasonably legit purposes 1. To make digitally available song which are unavailable on commercial CDs (e.g. you'd buy it if they'd just make it available) 2. To provide pre-ripped mp3s of music you already have on CD but would like to listen on your computer, RIO player, etc. I'm not going to say I have never used Napster (er, Macster), but I certainly aware what I'm doing is techncially illegal. Just like speeding on the freeway - "everyone" does it but it still makes it wrong. Services like Napster only serve to be used for basically illegal purposes. And, that is wrong. - -Kevdo - -- *********************************************************** * Kevin Crossman kevin@kevdo.com * * http://www.kevdo.com - The Narrow Interest Portal * * Lip Balm Anonymous, Ultimate Mai Tai, Exotica Archive * *********************************************************** # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 11:51:15 From: jschwart@voicenet.com Subject: (exotica) NAPOLEON COMPLEX > You need to get a CD that came out recently called NAPOLEON COMPLEX > (Vampire Records). It collects an incredible array of covers and answer > records that weer made after the initial novelty hit of "They're Coming To > Take Me Away, Ha Haaa!" It's one of the most obsessive reissue projects > ever done. Included are "I'm Happy They Took You Away, Ha-Haa!" (Josephine > XV), "Don't Take Me Back, Oh-Nooo!" (Henry the IX), "Down On The Funny Farm > (Oy Vey)" (Josephine XIII), plus versions in Belgian, Italian and German. > Nearly all of them feature that maddening monolithic drum beat! >Sounds tempting. Do you know any label or distribution source? Try Distortions Records (distrec@aol.com) or Get Hip. The CD includes Kim Fowley's version of "They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha-Haa!" (which is credited to Kim Fowley). # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 14:13:13 -0400 From: "m.ace" Subject: Re: (exotica) Napsterrrrrrr The advocates of Napster (and similar swap-nets) see it as the new-tech equivalent of "personal use" tape swapping (which is indeed legal under the fair use principle). It's foes, naturally, see it as theft -- reducing record company income (and also the pittance they pass on to the artists (another thought on that further along)). Though the record companies seem to be more uniformly upset over it than the artists. It's beneficial to remember that all of these current battles have the subtext of the entertainment-majors trying to maintain their monopoly on the pipeline, even as new technology obsoletes it (< sarcasm > and gosh, they've been shoving such *wonderful* product through that pipeline the last couple of years < /sarcasm >). A number of net music startups have tried to obtain proper licensing of material from the majors, but the majors refuse to deal. They're holding the material back for their *own* net ventures. Which are aways on the verge of *real soon now* -- as soon as they develop that absolutely, positively, we-really-mean-it-now, unbeatable anti-piracy format. If music distribution ever does go to an all-digital, no-object, pirate-proofed, watermarked, 'assume the customer is a criminal' system, I am a bit concerned that some sort of personal use still be possible. But probably not a real worry -- the genie is out of the bottle. Even if Napster goes down, there will always be something else to take its place. OpenNapster, Gnutella, Freenet... Or the grandaddies of file-swapping, IRC and newsgroups. Unless police state measures are employed (not so far-fetched), it can't be stopped. But howsabout getting the artists their proper compensation? Here's my modest proposal. Have the BMI/ASCAP crowd add mechanical royalty tracking & payment to their existing composition-based system (extending it to the net of course). I dare say the artists would get much fairer treatment from such a system than they would get from the majors. I have friends who took the record biz ride, and while their BMI royalty checks were always reliable, one of the record companies they dealt with required an occasional law suit to get the royalties prised from their grasp. So pardon me if I don't exactly trust the majors to pass on any funds they derive from the net (or blank tape taxes). But that's my thought -- route the artists' compensation through a neutral organization, like BMI or ASCAP. http://www.ntk.net "Need To Know" is an excellent weekly, cut-the-crap tech newsletter from the UK. The current edition has their typically salty thoughts on the Napster situation (2nd item down). The lead story is on the passage of Britain's RIP bill, which basically gives the government sweeping powers to tap your e-mail and such. Don't worry, US citizens, we've got the FBI and their "Carnivore" packet sniffer. New Zealand? Sounds like you're next. So you see Mo, this mailing list is about as private as a nude frolic in Times Square. m.ace mace@ookworld.com http://ookworld.com http://ookworld.com/linkalog/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:12:56 +0200 From: Dj Batman Subject: Re: (exotica) Napsterrrrrrr >But that's my thought -- route the >artists' compensation through a neutral organization, like BMI or ASCAP. which actually is what is (partially) already happening. Mp3.com is willing to pay authors through these organizations and you can tell them if you belong to one of these societies. Also, there are several BMI and ASCAP licensed sites, and other organizations such the Italian SIAE have internet licenses. Too bad that the SIAE is itself infested by major label mafia guys. I doubt I will ever see any money from them (I have had some 1000's of downloads on www.Vitaminic.it which has a SIAE license). Ah, starting from jan.1st, 2001 I will be joining IMRO, an Irish society that at least doesn't steal money to the authors (they have no annual fee) and don't require exams to verify if you are a "traditional" composer like SIAE (oh, here you can always skip the exams by signing a contract and paying FIVE YEARS MEMBERSHIP IN ADVANCE...) all this to say that not all of those organizations are so "reliable" or independent... DjB # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:03:27 EDT From: DJJimmyBee@aol.com Subject: Re: (exotica) Promotion VS Asskissing In a message dated 7/29/0 5:39:56 PM, cheryls@dsuper.net wrote: >alan zweig wrote: >> >> You notice how many other folks Jimmy sends his playlists to? He even >> sends them directly to Ursula 1000. I can't figure out if that's cool or >> asskissing. Actually, having met Ursala 1000 and partied with him on a couple of occasions, I'm happy to let him know what I play. He makes my show better with his creations so its more of a favor. Nat, he offered me freebies when I met him, but I bought them. I wish him success which he seems to be finding >Actually, we sometimes do it too - it lets the artists know they're >getting airplay. We who have shows like this labor in relative isolation. We get a little feedback here and there from listeners or if we mention at a party that we do "this and that radio show", but by and large we have to trust that "if we're here, they are there". We are always glad to hear from those who appreciate what we do. The same has to hold true for the humanoids who create and distrib ute this stuff. "If a tree falls in the forest.........."Otherwise its all numbers >Freebies are always a nice extra, but we pay for the majority of what we >play on Space Bop. same here... >The musicians we play deserve as much airplay and pr >as they can get - they certainly aren't getting it on top-40 commercial >radio - and we're happy to do our part to help provide exposure to their >music over the airwaves and the net. Couldn't have said it better > >So I'd say it's more cool - and helpful - than anything else I hope you want feedback on your film. And you must want to know to know who's showing it where and when, audience sizes etc........ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:38:00 -0400 From: Bump Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster... >p.s. just curious: any other artists/musicians in here that have had their >stuff on Napster against their will? yes, i co-own a small indie electronic record label and have record projects out as a group as well. so far one of our tracks i have seen on Napster and one of our artists has shown up a Russian site similar to napster. personally i do not care. in fact, i think it only does us good. the fact that these records have "seen there day" but are now seeing a new resurgence can only benefit everyone involved. plus the bottom line of our label was not $$$, it was getting the music out to peoples ears...i know that is anti-american but hey, i can't say i love capitalism. i love napster and think it should win out over the greed of the record industry. (as long as it stays free) i feel if people buy a product or are even given one, then what they do with it is there own business and should have no restrictions, as long as they are not trying to turn a profit from it. (and if they are, it still is not napsters fault) as far as the Russian site it is a different set of circumstances. they are making custom cds and making $$$ off of our tracks without our permission, so i think they should be accoutable. we have already made them remove the tracks. we are planning to make our entire catalog available for free on mp3. long live free trade!!! bump ******************************** Bump Universal DJ Defective Records bumpy@megsinet.net http://www.defectiverecords.com "Music, Non-Stop" -- Ralf + Florian # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:57:58 -0400 From: Bump Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...(permission) i do not think anyone should have to ask permission to use anything that has been put out into the public forum. i feel once an artist or businessperson has done that, then it is "UP FOR GRABS". (as long as you are not bootlegging) what you do with the sample will be judged buy another audience to feel if it is "worthy" of their $$$ or download. if you are lame, you are lame. taking a great sample is at the mercy of your lameness. but if you do something cool with it then Right On for you. in my opinion no art is original, most if not all ideas are "samples" of "art" already processed by your brain. mix that with experience and emotions and you have "new" art. did the Dadaist ask permission to use the newspaper clippings and photographs they used in their collages? i doubt it. i think this whole mess boils down to greedy people thinking their work is sacred. it is the time for that bubble to burst. viva la revolution! ******************************** Bump Universal DJ Defective Records bumpy@megsinet.net http://www.defectiverecords.com "Music, Non-Stop" -- Ralf + Florian # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:26:41 EDT From: LTepedino@aol.com Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...(permission) In a message dated 7/30/00 8:08:32 PM EST, bumpy@megsinet.net writes: << i do not think anyone should have to ask permission to use anything that has been put out into the public forum. Hello Bump, universal DJ. Using your hairbrained logic I am now going to take your name "Bump universal DJ and us it as my own as you have so willingly put it out into a public forum. Sorry you'll have to find another name. And as to your "Viva la revolution" I say it's just "Viva your bullshit" Bump universal DJ (formerly Ashley) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:20:41 -0400 From: Bump Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster... "Hi, you guys! I know >you > guys make music and make a living on selling records, but you know what I >want to > do? I will copy your records on CD and send everybody who wants one for >free. No! > Wait, I've got a better idea: I will put it on my webside, so thousands of >people > can download it for free and you don't get a penny for it. How do you like >that?" > > Would you do that? >> i probably would, i am thinking these guys are doing pretty well. they are not living in poverty. (are they? ;) but i would think about my friends (and everyone else in the world) who are working 3 jobs to keep up some semblance of a real life and cannot afford to by every Martin Denny lp, much less finding them. and then paying some greedy record dealer $25+ for it. i would be happy to copy the record and give it to them. call it a public service. sorry marty! ******************************** Bump Universal DJ Defective Records bumpy@megsinet.net http://www.defectiverecords.com "Music, Non-Stop" -- Ralf + Florian # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:40:03 -0400 From: Bump Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...(permission) ok, i am now HairbrainBump the Dj who laughs at Ashley out loud! Viva la Bullshit!!! HairbrainBump p.s. i don't hold my name as something to get upset over. two bumps are better than one! i just see you as someone with no imagination. nothing personal. >In a message dated 7/30/00 8:08:32 PM EST, bumpy@megsinet.net writes: > ><< i do not think anyone should have to ask permission to use anything that > has been put out into the public forum. >Hello Bump, universal DJ. Using your hairbrained logic I am now going to take >your name "Bump universal DJ and us it as my own as you have so willingly put >it out into a public forum. Sorry you'll have to find another name. > >And as to your "Viva la revolution" I say it's just "Viva your bullshit" > >Bump universal DJ >(formerly Ashley) ******************************** Bump Universal DJ Defective Records bumpy@megsinet.net http://www.defectiverecords.com "Music, Non-Stop" -- Ralf + Florian # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:17:57 EDT From: RLott@aol.com Subject: (exotica) Napster: The irony With all the record companies up in arms, I found it interesting that CD sales are actually *up* this year and healthier than they've been in awhile. I can't remember the source (Entertainment Weekly, perhaps). - --Rod www.hitchmagazine.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:41:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Domenic Ciccone" Subject: (exotica) I smasha u mouth Hi! There is so much interesting stuff happening here on the list and I should contribute....but I have a little question..... There is this Nissan commercial with music that we think is Smash Mouth. The lyrics on the blub: "The way that you are" or something like that....Is it Smash Mouth? There AstroLounge CD??? Oh...and another thing..... I don't want nobody copying this message.....ya hear!!! P.S. You Can Get Free Email & Homepages @ http://www.buzzlink.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:53:44 -0400 From: "Peter Risser" Subject: Re: (exotica) Napsterrrrrrr > > A number of net music startups have tried to obtain proper licensing of > > material from the majors, but the majors refuse to deal. They're holding > > the material back for their *own* net ventures. Which are aways on the > > verge of *real soon now* -- as soon as they develop that absolutely, > > positively, we-really-mean-it-now, unbeatable anti-piracy format. If music > > distribution ever does go to an all-digital, no-object, pirate-proofed, > > watermarked, 'assume the customer is a criminal' system, I am a bit > > concerned that some sort of personal use still be possible. This is the crux of my argument. I'm all for paying the artists and even the record companies, but their chokehold on the distribution of music, digital or otherwise, creates nothing but a miserable market in which to buy music. Doesn't anyone remember the quote from Capitol who said something to the effect of "If we had realized the Martin Denny stuff would have been so popular, we never would have licensed it to Scamp." And we would still be waiting for stupid, poorly produced, jokey re-releases, with idiotic forced medleys in the Ultra-Lounge line, instead of the wonderful, nicely produced with loving care releases we got from Scamp. My guess is, the reason Scamp closed it's doors is because they couldn't get reasonable licensing from the majors to continue to release nice stuff. I bet that's a part of it anyway. Peter # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:21:16 -0400 From: "Peter Risser" Subject: Re: (exotica) I smasha u mouth > Hi! There is so much interesting stuff happening here on the list and I should contribute....but I have a little question..... > > There is this Nissan commercial with music that we think is Smash Mouth. The lyrics on the blub: "The way that you are" or something like that....Is it Smash Mouth? There AstroLounge CD??? Yes. I forget the title of the tune. Lemme look it up in my big ol' MP3 archive. Oh yeah, "Then the Morning Comes". PS: I haven't bought this album yet, because I haven't heard it, but once I do, if I like it, it goes on the list of stuff to buy. And then Smashmouth will be happy for MP3s. In the meantime, they are sad, because their first album sucked. ANd I learned that by MP3 too. Although I wouldn't have bought it anyway. > Oh...and another thing..... > I don't want nobody copying this message.....ya hear!!! Whoops! Peter # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:35:33 -0700 From: Kevin Crossman Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster: The irony RLott@aol.com wrote: > > With all the record companies up in arms, I found it interesting that CD > sales are actually *up* this year and healthier than they've been in awhile. > I can't remember the source (Entertainment Weekly, perhaps). Except they're down in stores around college campuses! The fact that college students (with network connections fast enough to use Napster efficiently) are among the largest users of Napster obviously does not correlate. ;-) - -Kevin - -- *********************************************************** * Kevin Crossman kevin@kevdo.com * * http://www.kevdo.com - The Narrow Interest Portal * * Lip Balm Anonymous, Ultimate Mai Tai, Exotica Archive * *********************************************************** # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:32:50 -0500 From: "Paul Wages" Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster... I'm not sure if this what Mo meant but... I would be willing to get the ball rolling on something like this. I am willing to post MP3 data on the web of some older, out-of-print Exotica records on the web along with cover scans. Probably on one of those unlimited, free servers. I will post the link here and only leave the files online for a couple of weeks. I have already digitized Stanley Black's "Exotic Percussion" and Tak Shindo's "Bamboo And Brass". I could have them up within a few days. I just thought I would ask first. The Exotica list seems to be a hostile place lately... Paul bobbyspacetroup@mindsring.com AOL IM - bobbyspacetroup # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:31:10 -0500 From: "Paul Wages" Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster... So just how much has Napster cost the music industry? I'm sure people have made estimates (realistic or not). For what its worth, my CD purchases have skyrocketed since I've been on Napster (3 or 4 months now). I can think of of at least 10 CDs that I've purchased as a direct result of sampling songs on Napster. A few more because of luxuriamusic.com. Until recently, I wasn't really buying many new CDs at all (too many dissapointing purchases) prefering to buy cheap, used vinyl and burn to CD. In short, I'm more excited about new music than I have been in years, and Napster is a big reason for that. I don't feel guilty for my use of Napster. I do feel guilty for spending rent money on CDs. Going over to check out DJ Batman's MP3s right now... np on SoundJam: "Can Our Love?" by Tindersticks. REALLY GOOD. Paul bobbyspacetroup@mindsring.com AOL IM - bobbyspacetroup # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:50:36 -0500 From: "Paul Wages" Subject: Re: (exotica) Trader Vic's Drink Mixes....... Nate wrote: > Okay, are these good mixes, They are very good mixes. > and how much postage do they charge you for 3 > 8oz. bottles (they don't tell you how much shipping is until AFTER you > order........). Yeah, what's the deal with that? I made an order and they couldn't tell me how much the shipping was. I came to find out the shipping and handling more than doubled my order. I think a box of 6 750 ml bottles and a canister of Hot Buttered Rum Batter ended up costing almost 60 bucks. But it was *almost* worth it. I'm fortunate enough to have a Vic's restaurant here in Atlanta but they don't seem to have all of the mixes available (not too mention the food products). Last time I was there they were using Grenadine (and bottled lime juice!) by Finest Call. Not even their own product! Speaking of Vic's, has any body had any luck making Bongo-Bongo Soup? I found a recipe in "Esquire's Party Book" from the 70s which calls for spinach baby food, canned oyster puree, and A1 sauce. It didn't turn out that well (needless to say?). Maybe I went wrong when I tried to puree a can of whole oysters? > (And any feedback on the Hawaii in Pittsburgh post that took me an entire > 5min. to type up Dammit!!!) :-) I want to hear it! Sounds funny. Paul bobbyspacetroup@mindsring.com AOL IM - bobbyspacetroup # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 00:14:02 EDT From: LTepedino@aol.com Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster... In a message dated 7/30/00 8:31:08 PM EST, bumpy@megsinet.net writes: << i would think about my friends (and everyone else in the world) who are working 3 jobs to keep up some semblance of a real life and cannot afford to by every Martin Denny lp, much less finding them. and then paying some greedy record dealer $25+ for it. i would be happy to copy the record and give it to them. call it a public service. >> I can't afford to live in a Manhattan townhouse so using bumpy's logic I should be able to shoot the owner and move right in? How did you get your name bumpy? Too many bumps on the head? How's this for a public service...let's call the local mental home to pick our friend bumpy up. Hey bumpy, I'm sure all the list would love to know of at least one guy who is "working three jobs to keep up some semblance of a real life" Go on name one...That's gotta be one more than the "friends" you claim to have! Sorry about this rant to the rest of the list, but nothing gets me angrier than pure and simple stupidity and illogic as displayed by bumpy (on the head). I dion't mind a debate but when someone ties up this list with pure garbage as this guy he deserves to be thrown off. Ashley # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 00:17:13 EDT From: DJJimmyBee@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: (exotica) Napster... In a message dated 7/30/0 11:52:00 PM, bobbyspacetroup@mindspring.com wrote: . The Exotica list seems to be a hostile >place lately... And you have been here how long Bobbby?? # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 12:33:59 +0800 From: "william" Subject: (exotica) Re: napster well, i thought i could stay out of this debate but mimi's comment made me think of a question i have. how is downloading different than buying something used? or a promo? it seems to me that downloading does not equal sales lost. just because someone downloads something it does not mean that that person would of bought it. i have to admit i rarely use napster or mp3 technology. though i do have some discs of mp3s that people have made for me. most of which i have bought on cd later regardless of having the mp3s. i'm one of those people who likes the object much more than having it mysteriously on my hardrive somewhere. though with the poor packaging of some releases you wonder why bother...so anyway is there a difference? william in taipei. > > > >as for me? i will continue to copy and download like a bastard. for those > >who have received CD's from me -- you will notice that my CD's are produced > >by "Bootleg Productions - With no rights observed." > > Gotta ask you a question, Tiki Bob. You admire and respect Martin Denny; > you've made this clear in many posts, and some of them have been quite > touching. I'm just wondering how you square this admiration with copying > and downloading like a bastard. Don't you see that you are harming your > idol (and other musicians you dig) by depriving them of income they deserve > when you reproduce their intellectual creations with no rights reserved? > > > Really, I'm just wondering. Mimi # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 05:27:16 -0400 From: Bump Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster... laughing at ashley even harder now.... >I can't afford to live in a Manhattan townhouse so using bumpy's logic I >should be able to shoot the owner and move right in? can someone tell me how we got here??? i thought we were talking about downloading music? i don't see the relation. enlighten me with your wisdom. as far as the other things you said. i will write off the taunting to you just being an ***hole, and hope no more people with such a mean spirit join this list. my opinion is just as insignificant as yours baby! your friend, tying up the list again bump p.s. this is my last post on this subject, and i will be happy to leave the list if others feel i should. ******************************** Bump Universal DJ Defective Records bumpy@megsinet.net http://www.defectiverecords.com "Music, Non-Stop" -- Ralf + Florian # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 05:45:47 -0400 From: "Br. Cleve" Subject: Re: (exotica) Re: napster >well, i thought i could stay out of this debate but mimi's comment made me >think of a question i have. how is downloading different than buying >something used? or a promo? this actually brings up an interesting point, which neither the RIAA or the Artists ever bring up: - the fact that promos are bought and sold every day (in the US, anyway), run by a network of illicit record company promo men who illegally sell current CD promotional product to used record stores at a fraction of their list price, enabling them to mark 'em up about 10% less than legitimate retail. These are promo recordings that artists never receive one penny from - - but yet record company personel make hundreds of thousands of dollars from illegally every year. When the RIAA finally addresses the corruption within the system, then I'll take their comments about Napster seriously. Until then -- it's all just one motherfucker after another ripping off the artists from what they deserve. Next time you buy a copy of a CD that says "For Promotion Only" or words to that effect, just remembert that the person who recorded the music receives NO monetary compensation, but the record company weasel who stole the CD's from the label library gets thousands of dollars annually due to the kickback he has in place br cleve # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 11:24:39 +0100 From: Charles Moseley Subject: RE: (exotica) Re: napster - and some finds at the bottom I've just come back from a few days in New Orleans (visiting Chuck amongst other things) to find a great debate raging re Napster. I'd just like to point out that copyright infringement may be illegal in any form but clearly won't bring about a prosecution unless serious amounts are involved. This is why major artists are suing Napster and not me. I owe them a very small amount of cash for using Napster to retrieve one or two songs which they claim I have stolen from them but they're not going to haul me off to court for damages. Breaking the law is one thing but the level of law breaking has to be taken into account too. Sampling a bassline may show a lack of creativity or great musical skill but that is irrelevant in copyright terms. What actually matters is how much money you made from your song. Clearly, the more you make, the more likely you are to be sued for your theft ('where there's a hit, there's a writ'). Stealing Bump's name (something which I've been wanting to do for a long time) is illegal but doesn't really matter until you make serious money from it or prevent Bump himself making using it. Then, of course, there are grounds for prosecution (or amusing abuse!). Napster is like the phone company which allows illegal material to flow through its system - it is merely the messenger. Anyway, wait until Napster wakes up to what its real purpose is: Obtaining any file from anywhere without the need for central storage. Has anyone on this list tried obtaining software through Napster? Forget MP3s. Go looking for high end audio or design software. Anyway got a few records in New Orleans but nothing spectacular - another Don Sebesky's Distant Galaxy, Herb Alpert presents Sergio Mendes in the wrong cover, Mystic Moods Stormy Night (odd), Shirley Bassey's Something (third copy now - why?), couple of soul 45s, funk LPs, etc etc. Like I said, nothing spectacular. Charlie # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 11:42:21 +0100 From: Charles Moseley Subject: (exotica) Finally, a decent record score! I haven't really been buying too many quality records recently and haven't been out on many vinyl binges but today in the post I got two records separately which I had thought had gone missing in the post. In fact, I even thought the local Post Office had a hex on my address! Anyway, they are: The Wozard of Iz (at last I have a copy - thanks again Alan) and one of my holy grails of record ownership: Willie Dynamite soundtrack by J J Johnson (check it out on Ebay) which was sent from Wales in May, recorded delivery and should have showed up at my house two days later. I had considered it missing, presumed stolen or fucked up but here it is, in all its glory and mint condition. I have also just found a CD soundtrack of Alan Kone (or is that Nat Zweig)'s film along with the Wozard which I'll be checking out this evening. Surely you can't call a track 'felching in space'? Charlie Editor C3 Magazine 3 St Peter's Street London N1 8JD Tel: 44 (0)20 7704 3313 (direct) Tel: 44 (0)20 7226 8585 (switchboard) Fax: 44 (0)20 7226 8586 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:19:52 +0200 From: Dj Batman Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster... >>I can't afford to live in a Manhattan townhouse so using bumpy's logic I >>should be able to shoot the owner and move right in? > >can someone tell me how we got here??? >i thought we were talking about downloading music? >i don't see the relation. enlighten me with your wisdom. you don't see the relation but maybe it isn't so absurd. In Italy a new nazi copyright law has just been approved. Copying ONE PC VIDEOGAME for personal use (not to resell it) can result in YEARS OF IMPRISONMENT and huge fines to pay. Since a certain type of homicide only leads to six months in jail, one could think that in Italy today it is less risky to kill someone and steal a cd from his hands, rather than asking a friend to have a copy... DjB # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:29:52 +0200 From: Moritz R Subject: Re: (exotica) napster "Br. Cleve" wrote: > this actually brings up an interesting point, which neither the RIAA or the > Artists ever bring up: - > the fact that promos are bought and sold every day True, though do you think they are traded in relevant amounts? > Next time you buy a copy of a CD that says "For Promotion Only" or words to > that effect, just remembert that the person who recorded the music receives > NO monetary compensation I don't think this is correct. Although the record company may reduce the promos from the royalties they pay to the artist, these CDs are still counted by the ASCAP etc (in Germany GEMA), because they control the pressing plants. So the artist will at least get his composition rights money for these promos. At least that's what I believe, I mean, I hope it is still like that. Which brings me to the point: As far as I could follow the discussion, that is: the serious part of it, only Mike Ace made a reasonable proposal that took into consideration the factual difference between the rights of the artists and the rights of the record industry. When you see how little the artist gets in the end compared to what the record companies cash in, even with big stars, it's not too hard to understand why so many people don't show any responsibility in the handling of downloads. To take from those companies, who are often enough part of even bigger companies that have nothing to do with art and music whatsoever and only sacrifce their shareholders interests = money, seems only all-too-fair. It's not that easy however, in fact the whole matter is incredibly difficult. There is no obvious one way to solve the problem; just a few details: There are not only the big companies of course, there are also a lot of small "independent" (well... nobody is really independent) labels, who struggle hard to survive and produce most of the new records we are talking about in this list. So you can't just try to compensate artist's rights via organizations like ASCAP or GEMA, although this should be the main focus of attention. Next example: Not all members of a band are composers or write lyrics. They won't get any money from ASCAP, all they get is royalties from the record companies according to the contracts they have. How to protect their rights without working together with the record companies? You'd need an entire new organization, designed to control the cashflow in that field, but by order of the musicians and not by the record companies. And these are definitely only a few problems. The fact that we have a protection of the artist's rights at all only owes to politics. It's a constant fight and artists have to support their organizations to keep in charge in the long run. I'm sure there is a technical solution for the "download-problem", I'm all for the possibility of downloads and wouldn't mind to pay a few pennies, if I know they go to the right people, but wether this cyber-cash solution is designed to protect these right people who deserve it for their efforts to produce art with a cultural value and not just greedy half-criminal corporations stays a political problem. I still think, my original proposal, that started this thread, could be a basis for discussion, but maybe not in this list. The idea of societies, that earn special rights to exchange music inside their organization, semi-public interest groups who qualified for exchanging musical data for a "higher" purpose than commercial exploitation. Especially when it's about historic music, that did make its commercial success a long time ago already. I know one could find a hundred arguments why this idea is impractical, but in the history of modern societies there were a lot of those public positions that had to be achieved by political movements and are normal parts of our everyday life today. Mo # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ End of exotica-digest V2 #768 *****************************