From: owner-exotica-digest@lists.xmission.com (exotica-digest) To: exotica-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: exotica-digest V2 #769 Reply-To: exotica-digest Sender: owner-exotica-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-exotica-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes exotica-digest Monday, July 31 2000 Volume 02 : Number 769 In This Digest: Re: (exotica) Napster...(Part 1) (exotica) Komeda's Cul de Sac (exotica) Hawaii in Pittsburgh...... Re: (exotica) Napster... Re: (exotica) napster / promo royalties (exotica) More Napster Re: (exotica) napster (exotica) Orgeat.... Re: (exotica) Napster...(Part 1.1) Re: (exotica) More Napster Re: (exotica) napster / promo royalties Re: (exotica) Napster... RE: (exotica) Who wanted those tiki lights? (exotica) digest request RE: (exotica) Napster... (exotica) Re: Kahiki rebellion RE: (exotica) Napster... Re: (exotica) Napster... (exotica) orgeat RE: (exotica) Who wanted those tiki lights? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 07:54:36 EDT From: Rcbrooksod@aol.com Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...(Part 1) two questions i guess i need to answer: <> and <> both of these quotes (that hit squarely between my eyes) assume that i have no respect for any artists. well, in january, i talked with mr. denny about the copying of his music and the music industry and what his opinions are. first let me say that i have never mass produced/copied commercially made CDs/whatever for distribution free or other wise. when i do make cd copies i usually give them away with out even requiring a trade. i bought all the Scamp and UL CDs (sometimes multiples which i gave to friends). i have never downloaded any Denny CD from Napster (why should i -- i have bought them all?). my brother tommy even liked the Don Tiki CD which i could have easily copied for him but i bought him a copy because the liner notes and printing on the CD look better - PLUS i like don tiki and think they deserve the sale. so back to my visit with Marty. at one point we were talking about how many people who happen on his music end up liking it. but that it is now kind of rare to "happen" on his music. no radio play. and as he joked, "the breakfast of champions was an interesting movie, but it is not going to have wide spread appeal. it was kind of crazy." i told him that i often times played his (and others) music a dinner/deck parties. i told him i had made a "sampler cassette" that had about 4 cuts each of his, baxter's, sumac's, lyman's and cate's music on it and that often times i would give them to party guests to take home. as i told him this i knew he may not like me giving away some of his music, but i was being honest. he actually liked the idea. he said, "great! maybe they will like it and buy a CD or two." exactly! and the next thing was the clencher. he said that he makes so little off of most CD sales (because Capitol licenses them) that the money issue was not a big factor -- he would like it to be a big factor -- but is isn't. he said he just wants more people to listen to his music. he feels his music is timeless and transcends all generations. no lyrics, no messages, no agendas -- just melodies ("with the occasional frog croaking or bird call!") i also told him how it would be great to put some of the out of print LPs that have not been released on CD (and probably never will) on to CDs. he was amazed that it could be done on a home computer (he had just got his first computer a week before i arrived). he even mentioned how he wished his personal record collection was on CDs because he would listen more. more to come. but first. i have a thick skin. i can take it as well as i can dish it out. but honestly? i found the transformation of this discussion from peoples' opinions to more personal attacks rather disturbing. this is probably the first time i have really felt this way in 5 years. it really made me think about how i wanted to respond. what also bothers me is that i was being attacked by people who have downloaded or copied or sampled or whatever other artists works, and distributed those artists works without compensating them. the same thing they say i so wantonly do. regards, tb # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:13:17 +0100 From: the curator Subject: (exotica) Komeda's Cul de Sac Folks If anyone has the 7" EP of this, could they contact me offlist many thank-yous Sem Sinatra # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:43:06 -0400 From: "Nathan Miner" Subject: (exotica) Hawaii in Pittsburgh...... Picked up the LP "John Malo's - Hawaii Starry Blue Pau" This album was recorded live at the Conley Inn, a part of the Best Western = Hotel chain in Pittsburgh, PA. Blue Pau, whose "clean, warm, velvety = voice transfixes you for that one moment of happines" (according to the = liner notes) leads the listener through an incredible night-club act that = strives to display "the talents and efforts of people who believe in their = dream of spreading the Spirit of Aloha throughout this area, starting here = in the city of varied ethnic groups..."Pittsburgh." I doubt they ever made it past Pittsburgh's Best Western but you can't say = they didn't put on one hell of a show. Pictures on the back of the album = (making up for a horribly static white cover with blocky text for the = title) show a stage decked out in bamboo trim and fake flora, fire-eaters, = guys blowing into huge conch shells to summon the gods, and beautiful = maidens decked out in traditional outfits and accompanying lead singer = Blue Pau - looking resplendent in an entire white suite, bushy moustache = and teased-up 70's hair-do. There's plenty of corny crooning as the LP starts out with "Here We Are" = directed at the live audience (yes, recorded LIVE in beautiful downtown = Pittsburgh!!) and stumbles through a weird "Hawaii is a land of varied = cultures" routine that incorporates a Chinese sounding tune, "Sakura" and = even a "polka-cized" Melody of Love (The Hawaiian king evidently visited = Poland and left behind this tune.....) along with audience participation = sing-along to Tiny Bubbles (at one point that jokster Blue Pau starts = slurring his words to imitate a lovable drunk much to the crowds amusement)= . There's a version of Quiet Village complete with bird calls (of which = Blue Pau is an expert - the liner notes say so!). I'm probably making this album sound like more fun than it really is, but = the Quiet Village is fun and just knowing that this is *not* a Saturday = Night Live skit makes it all the more astounding - this really played = night after night for who knows how many months!..... - - Nate # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:58:16 EDT From: LTepedino@aol.com Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster... In a message dated 7/31/00 4:37:34 AM EST, bumpy@megsinet.net writes: << laughing at ashley even harder now.... >I can't afford to live in a Manhattan townhouse so using bumpy's logic I >should be able to shoot the owner and move right in? can someone tell me how we got here??? i thought we were talking about downloading music? Yes, bumpy we are talking about stealing (that's defined as obtaining something that is ofr sale without paying for it). I was just taking your inane logic to an even more ridiculous level than you were. Not as ridiculous as your statement of you "firends" who work 3 jobs in order to try to get all the Martin Denny records (har har har har!). Hey Bumpy, I got friends who are working 2 jobs to collect all the Englebert Humperdink records (that's because they are as valuable as the Martin Denny records, so they only need 2 jobs, get it! Har Har Har Har Har!!) i don't see the relation. enlighten me with your wisdom. Here is the wisdom oh dense one. Recording artsts get paid by the amount of records sold. So if deadbeats like you download music for free they don't get paid as much. Music is intellectual property just as a Manhattan townhouse in my analogy is property of a different sort. (See bumpy I used the same word "property" I'm making a connection, see bumpy?) Just because there is some piece of property in a public forum it doesn't mean thst the artist or the artist's record company put it there. In the case of Napster the music has been put there without permission. as far as the other things you said. i will write off the taunting to you just being an ***hole, and hope no more people with such a mean spirit join this list. >> Lastly bumpy, this list is to enlighten people. I just get angry when it is used by pompous jerks like yourself who continue to make unthinking rants despite their foot being in there mouth. A debate requires an intelligent response. Not fully understanding the aspects of a discussion by making alarmist and blantanly false statements is not a service to anyone on the list. I'm sure your friends who are working 3 jobs even know that. What pisses me off is that I could be doing something more useful than having to set the record straight on this list as to the ridiculous statements you have been making. If there were more people like you then there would be a lot less good reissues being put together...and using your logic, these recording artists then would have to be the ones joing your :"friends" working at 3 jobs to make a living. Lastly. let me come down to your level and correct you one more time. Asshole isn't spelled "***hole" it's spelled "b-u-m-p-y" Yer pal, Ashley # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 09:16:44 EDT From: SLarry3595@aol.com Subject: Re: (exotica) napster / promo royalties << > Next time you buy a copy of a CD that says "For Promotion Only" or words to > that effect, just remembert that the person who recorded the music receives > NO monetary compensation I don't think this is correct. Although the record company may reduce the promos from the royalties they pay to the artist >> Actually, I thought the cost of the promo discs was DEDUCTED from what the performer was paid as an expense. Larry # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:23:48 +0100 From: Charles Moseley Subject: (exotica) More Napster "So if deadbeats like you download music for free they don't get paid as much" Ashley's statement. But can anybody prove it? Paranoia and fear, rather than hard evidence or even anecdotal evidence seems to be driving major label's panic over Napster. Has anyone seen any evidence to say that since Alice Deejay's Better Off Alone appeared in MP3 format, sales have suddenly stopped? I doubt it. And has anyone heard any anecdotal evidence to say that since putting selected tunes (or finding someone else had placed them) on the web, they have encouraged a broader fan base and seen CD sales gently rise? Probably. An independent record company will often welcome the person-to-person or online distribution of its artists' MP3s as it spreads the word. Only a major will really panic and if we're talking Sony for instance, their massive revenues and huge profits are so far unaffected and probably will always be so. You also need to bear in mind that prosecutions will only follow major copyright infringement, due to practical reasons so yes, using Napster to download MP3s is copyright infringement (not theft) but it is acceptable copyright infringement, with no chance of prosecution and does not hurt artists sales in other media (unless you can prove otherwise Ashley). I'd compare it to doing 31mph in a 30mph zone. It's illegal but so what? Charlie Editor C3 Magazine 3 St Peter's Street London N1 8JD Tel: +44 (0) 20 7704 3313 (direct) +44 (0) 20 7226 8585 (switchboard) Fax: +44 (0) 207 226 8586 ISDN: +44 (0) 207 359 6756 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:24:18 +0200 From: Dj Batman Subject: Re: (exotica) napster >I don't think this is correct. Although the record company may reduce the >promos from the royalties they pay to the artist, these CDs are still counted >by the ASCAP etc (in Germany GEMA), because they control the pressing plants. >So the artist will at least get his composition rights money for these promos. >At least that's what I believe, I mean, I hope it is still like that. this is true for certain countries like UK and Italy for example (I don't have infos on Germany). For what I know in the US mechanical rights are paid directly to publishers and artists so the ASCAP has nothing to do with this kind of control... also, sometimes when dealing with US labels, you may be asked to renounce to al mechanicals for promo copies (it happened to me personally). >Next >example: Not all members of a band are composers or write lyrics. They won't >get any money from ASCAP, all they get is royalties from the record companies >according to the contracts they have. How to protect their rights without >working together with the record companies? the same societies like ASCAP etc. are considering paying (or are already paying) royalties for PERFORMERS (i.e. a singer gets royalty from radio play even if he is not the composer). >I still think, my original proposal, that started this thread, could be a basis >for discussion, but maybe not in this list. The idea of societies, that earn >special rights to exchange music inside their organization, semi-public >interest groups who qualified for exchanging musical data for a "higher" >purpose than commercial exploitation. Especially when it's about historic >music, that did make its commercial success a long time ago already. I know one >could find a hundred arguments why this idea is impractical, but in the history >of modern societies there were a lot of those public positions that had to be >achieved by political movements and are normal parts of our everyday life >today. if you look at the history of the royalty collection agencies we have, you will see that ASCAP in USA and SIAE in Italy for example were born as authors' societies. Particularly, in Italy, at the end of 1800's and early 1900's lots of great poets and writers (Verga, Pascoli, D'Annunzio etc.) were members of SIAE. Today SIAE is a mafia controlled by the majors and also collecting taxes on behalf of the government and even the national TV, for things that have nothing to do with artists and authors. There are also proposals for forming a new association, but the law gives SIAE a monopoly on copyright. DjB # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:37:34 -0400 From: "Nathan Miner" Subject: (exotica) Orgeat.... Is this that damn Almond syrup stuff?? Could whoever re-post those comments to what are acceptable subsititutes = directly to me again.....................figures this past weekend a = friend and I spent the rainy weekend mixing up drinks and questing for = this damn stuff (unsuccessfully!). He said we could use almond extract but I dunno about that . The only = thing we found was almond paste........don't think that'll work. Thanks - Nate # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:41:21 +0200 From: Moritz R Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...(Part 1.1) Rcbrooksod@aol.com wrote: > he actually liked the idea. he said, "great! maybe they will like it and > buy a CD or two." exactly! Exactly! Without the chance to sell a CD or two, Marty would probably not be all-too-enthusiastic about unlimited copying of his music. The entire example is in fact rather unrealistic: For one Martin Denny is 90 or so years old, has made his fortune in the 50s and wether 1.000 of his CDs are sold or not today really doesn't make much of a difference for him, I guess. Plus you will have to admit that giving some tapes to some party guests on one hand and spreading entire albums to hundreds and thousands of people via the internet without any additional costs for tapes or blank CDs or shipping on the other hand is a fundamental difference. BTW: this is why the comparison to taping records is not that adequate: You could never before make a 1000 copies of a record and instantly deliver it to 1000 people all over the world with virtually no costs. > i also told him how it would be great to put some of the out of print LPs > that have not been released on CD (and probably never will) on to CDs. he was > amazed that it could be done on a home computer ??? but not in amounts of 10.000s of copies... we are talking about the future of music industry here. > but first. i have a thick skin. i can take it as well as i can dish it out. > but honestly? i found the transformation of this discussion from peoples' > opinions to more personal attacks rather disturbing. this is probably the > first time i have really felt this way in 5 years. it really made me think > about how i wanted to respond. If you really want to be honest, TB, please be honest to yourself as well and ask yourself, if you have not given reason to others for feeling personally attacked by yourself too! As for myself, I did take your comment on me, after I left the list, personal, and it did attack me, especially after we had exchanged quite a lot of personal mails off-list on various subjects for a while. As a matter of fact I couldn't believe it, when friends quoted me your comment. And, yes, it was a unique one-in-5-years experience for me as well, the cyber-version of the classic situation, when someone who you think is your friend, is running you down to others, as soon as you turn around. Think about it. Mo # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:41:48 +0200 From: Moritz R Subject: Re: (exotica) More Napster Charles Moseley wrote: > Has anyone seen any evidence to say that > since Alice Deejay's Better Off Alone appeared in MP3 format, sales have > suddenly stopped? I doubt it. It may only be a matter of time until music industry is seriously damaged by free downloads. It seems kind of obvious that more and more people will choose to do that. Mo # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:41:54 +0200 From: Moritz R Subject: Re: (exotica) napster / promo royalties SLarry3595@aol.com wrote: > I don't think this is correct. Although the record company may reduce the > promos from the royalties they pay to the artist >> > > Actually, I thought the cost of the promo discs was DEDUCTED from what the > performer was paid as an expense. A musician usually gets money for his recorded music from TWO sources: 1) The record company that pays something like 10% from the wholesale price of each sold record to the "musician", i.e. the band, the solo-artist. If the contract allows it to the record company they may deduct the expenses for the promos from what they have to pay to the artist. 2) the organization that controls pressing and airplay of the compositions by order of the artists, i.e. ASCAP, GEMA, etc., each country has its own organization. A composer also gets money, when somebody else plays or records his/her songs. A band member not listed as a writer of songs doesn't get any money even for his own records. The record company has nothing to do with this whatsoever, except that it is expected that they announce the mumber of records they press in a correct way, especially if they own the pressing plant themselves, which is not always the case. Mo # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 00 11:08:07 -0400 From: "Michael D. Toth" Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster... >In a message dated 7/30/00 8:31:08 PM EST, bumpy@megsinet.net writes: > ><< i would think about my friends (and everyone else in the world) who are > working 3 jobs to keep up some semblance of a real life and cannot afford > to by every Martin Denny lp, much less finding them. > and then paying some greedy record dealer $25+ for it. > i would be happy to copy the record and give it to them. > call it a public service. >> And Ashley replied, rather out-of-character: >How did you get your name bumpy? Too many bumps on the head? > >How's this for a public service...let's call the local mental home to pick >our friend bumpy up. ... >Sorry about this rant to the rest of the list, but nothing gets me angrier >than pure and simple stupidity and illogic as displayed by bumpy (on the >head). I dion't mind a debate but when someone ties up this list with pure >garbage as this guy he deserves to be thrown off. For a guy as sharp and articulate and patient as you, Ashley, this one obviously hit a raw nerve to send you off like this. (No doubt the "Martin Denny" example hitting so close to home not helping matters...) I personally have few ethical qualms of making tapes or CD-Rs of *out-of-print*, rare albums for friends. Likewise, Bump, I would have no problem with you taping say, Martin Denny's "A Taste of India" sitar album (never been on CD, probably never will) for your friend while a used copy sits at a record shop for $25. *HOWEVER*, when a label like Scamp goes to an awful lot of expense and trouble to remaster and legitimately license and reissue the most premium Martin Denny albums on CD and you're duping *THOSE* for your friends, that duplication philosophy becomes rather whacked. I think you'd be off your rocker to pay $25 for vinyl Martin Denny when you could get TWO such Denny albums on a single Scamp reissue for $15 or so. But without a market to sustain and support these reissues, THERE WILL BE NO MORE SUCH REISSUES. (Which subsequently, is part of why you don't see many reissues of cool stuff, not the least of which was that series of the rest of those Esquivel LPs. And why Scamp isn't in a position to release "A Taste of India...") Bump, I don't think you understand the blood and sweat that Ashley/Scamp put into making the Denny material affordably accessible on CD that makes this a particularly touchy topic for him. I'm also sorry you hit Ashley at a bad moment. Believe it or not, from my first-hand experience, I've found that Ashley's an *unusually* patient, civil, all-around Nice Guy. Ashley, don't forget most people don't have the informed industry-savvy position of the way things work to debate this issue in the manner you're expecting. If it weren't for my off-list and phone discussions with you and various reissue movers-and-shakers, I wouldn't have the sense I do of how record companies and reissue licensing works and their ramifications. And even Bump, who has a small indie label and some degree of sophistication and experience in such matters, still hasn't gone through a lot of the higher-level industry nonsense you have. It's up to you to educate us. Admittedly, I'm spoiled in my access to this music -- I get a lot of promotional copies of CDs for review and airplay on my radio show, and I'm probably unusually resourceful in tracking down vintage vinyl. (I've managed to acquire around 35 different Liberty/Sunset Martin Denny LPs in the past 6 years, most for an average of $1.00-2.00 each; some of the earlier releases are rougher VG to VG+ mono copies, but for those, I thankfully have the Scamp reissues to take care of me.) And to tie into a related thread, I can't afford to buy everything worthwhile either, but I try to support/give as much exposure as I can to cool current releases through my radio show, and have no qualms about accepting promotional copies of discs when I can get my hands on them. And one last comment: particularly for smaller labels, in lieu of the cost of doing promotional singles, the free circulation of MP3s in getting the word out on stuff that wouldn't otherwise get airplay, does seem like a potentially attractive prospect. Simmer down, guys, :-D Michael David Toth mtoth@neo.lrun.com mtoth@neo.rr.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 11:02:28 -0400 From: "Rajnai, Charles, NNAD" Subject: RE: (exotica) Who wanted those tiki lights? Neither the moai lights, nor the ones at cheezy lights ar the ones I = have been looking for. I saw them hanging at a little place on the = boardwalk, where he got them, I dont know. THey were all the same color, and were painted on the eyes and mouth. =20 The search continues... visit=20 THE BRIMSTONES Eternal Surf and Garage Damnation=20 at http://www.brimstones.com =A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,= =B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4 surfing the chaos, Charlieman cdr@brimstones.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:09:34 +0100 From: Reader Geoff Subject: (exotica) digest request Typically, the list picks up and I can't get posts. Had an e-mail problem at the weekend, anyone still have digests 765,766, and 767 please? thanks in advance. El Maestro Con Queso djcheesemaster@yahoo.com grr@brighton.ac.uk http://www.shitola.freeserve.co.uk/cheese/cheese.htm http://www.geocities.com/djcheesemaster/ Spunky Misunderstood Genius PS, I love yer, bump, don't worry about it. It surprises me what gets people exercised on the list. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:17:19 +0100 From: Charles Moseley Subject: RE: (exotica) Napster... 'Which subsequently, is part of why you don't see many reissues of cool stuff' Apart from all the bootlegs that we all buy. Do you Napster haters own a bootleg LP or CD anywhere in your collection? I can't really believe that Napster's existence threatens Scamp's ability to sell reissue Martin Denny CDs. Is this the reason that Denny's Taste of India LP has not been reissued? Charlie Editor C3 Magazine 3 St Peter's Street London N1 8JD Tel: +44 (0) 20 7704 3313 (direct) +44 (0) 20 7226 8585 (switchboard) Fax: +44 (0) 207 226 8586 ISDN: +44 (0) 207 359 6756 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 00 12:18:51 -0400 From: "Michael D. Toth" Subject: (exotica) Re: Kahiki rebellion JT wrote: > >Otto Von Stroheim wrote: > >>Wow, that's pretty harsh calling the gig an artificial scene >>and how would one refer to a Martin Denny show at the Shell Bar >>or more realistically a Don Ho show? > >No offense intended - like I said, we (we meaning 16 or so of us here in >Chicago) would all just prefer to remember the Kahiki on a 'regular' night. >Paying $100 for a buffet (rather than a regular a la carte meal plus a few >drinks at half that price) isn't much of an attraction either. None of us >could care less about the DJ's, What you're really paying for is the event itself, especially Don Tiki. Don't forget when you see a band on tour, that their transportation expenses get divided over the whole tour. With a single fly-in date, they all need to be covered at once, and here costs are divided among a few hundred people as the Columbus fire code capacities allow. With the Don Tiki show, I hear there are 11 people involved (9 musicians + 2 dancers?) whose travel and lodging expenses from 6 time zones away in Hawaii need to be dealt with. And rental of sound/PA equipment, etc. etc. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$!! >and also we'd rather be by the big >fireplace than stuck in the basement... The event is taking over the *entire* building, BTW. I'm not sure but I think Don Tiki may actually be performing in front of the fireplace Tiki mouth. >I am certainly not trying to create some sort of rift among the old-time >Tiki crew, either, BTW. So, to answer your other question, I don't think >Denny charged double for dinner during his shows, and I don't think he had >so-called celebrity DJ's... ;-) Lest this seem like some ungodly luxury that attendees are getting sponged for: As one of the so-called celebrity DJs, FYI, NONE OF US DJs are getting paid a dime, and we're all responsible for our own transportation and lodging to boot. We're doing it for the joy of it at our own expense. And as far as "scene-artificiality" goes, the DJs are all just people like you who enjoy the music and have hung out on the Exotica list. The "artificial scene" is the one we're *all* in here. And personally, I find the ambience of the music played by DJs who know/care more about Exotica music than the Kahiki something really cool lacking in a typical Kahiki outing. Hearing Martin Denny or Robert Drasnin or Dominic Frontiere instead of their randomly piped-in quasi-Hawaiian muzak strikes me as a mighty nifty prospect. While I do admittedly think the price set by the Kahiki is still somewhat over-priced, this is just a *very* expensive event to put on. It's been priced out of the range of anyone I know regionally that wanted to attend and I'm *really* bummed about it. As passionate as I am about the event, if I weren't involved in it, I don't think I'd be able to swing it myself. But the harsh reality of it all is that it's a very expensive event to put on, and fortunately enough people are able to collectively pay for it to make it happen at all. Cheaply thrilled to have somehow landed the prestige of even "so-called" celebrity status out of the deal, Michael David Toth mtoth@neo.lrun.com mtoth@neo.rr.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 12:28:34 -0400 From: "Rajnai, Charles, NNAD" Subject: RE: (exotica) Napster... So if deadbeats like you download music for=20 > free they don't get=20 > paid as much.=20 I couldn't keep my fingers still much longer... First, a load of folks downloading music from napster or anywhere else (remember, you can do this via email for goodness sakes) doesn't = necessarily mean a reduction in cd sales. I equate this to taping music off the = radio. All those students that have high speed connections and big hard drives = are generally lacking the resources to buy CDs. Napster offers to them the = one of 2 ways of getting a listen to anything. Without napster, they will = be doing what they always did, copying a friend's CD or taping from the = college radio station after making a request. I know I did it. When they = graduate and get a decent job, or get some xmas cash, they will likely buy what = they like. The difference is that they are now more educated consumers, untainted by MTV publicity, buying what they actually like, not what = they are told to like. This can be a BONUS to the art form, at the expense = of the business. =20 Second, I give the stars little compassion. The bigger they are, the = less they get from me. Regardless of their popularity, if they are in the = music business only to make money, it is the wrong reason. Getting paid to = do something you would do for free anyway, like any art or craft, is a = bonus. As a musician I will sit and play for an hour at home, and not expect = to get money for it ever. If I recorded something and it made it to napster = and halfway around the world to some 19 year old's dorm party, I would be = pretty psyched about it. I would not be seeking compensation from napster for = it. I would be THANKING them for the free venue and recognition! =20 Third, echoing a previous comment. Napster is a mechanism. Just like paper, the electromagnetic spectrum, and gunpowder. You can't = legislate stupidity or close down a free society because of the misuse of its = devices. At worst the users are prosceuteable, not napster. =20 Comment if you like... visit=20 THE BRIMSTONES Eternal Surf and Garage Damnation=20 at http://www.brimstones.com =A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,= =B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4 surfing the chaos, Charlieman cdr@brimstones.com =20 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 09:41:18 -0700 (PDT) From: tikiman Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster... BURN, BABY BURN!- interesting rapsters on napster here... and throwing this in for your consideration or alienation. we decided to put out Don Tiki on our own label (big learning curve) after reviewing larger label offers with contractural verbage to "own our names and souls in perpetuity," and all the chargebacks for promo cds, advertising, etc. and i can tell you 1st hand that what Cleve says is true about not getting a penny for the promos as we have given out nearly 500 of our initial pressing of 5,000 for free to local and college station radio station program directors as well as music press in hopes of airplay/coverage. we paid Ryden for original cover art, and also paid for the photo on the back tray which was owned by a postcard company in SF rather than steal this easily accessible image. you can find our album at amazon, cd now and others in the $11 - $12 range with 5 or 6 tunes available for you to hear before deciding to purchase at their cyber listening stations, so i don't see where having our music up on napster helps sales. we just want to make enough to record DT2, which we hoped the "Duke" reissue would help finance, but to do that release right like Scamp has done for Martin's music, and pay for original masters and royalties leaves no room for profit unless you sell a shitload which is rarely the case. anyways, being artist and small indie is certainly a challenge, one that i don't see the napsters of the world making any easier. still working 3 jobs in paradise, Fluid Floyd/Taboo Records ps- Tiki Bob, mahalo for buying your brother our cd rather than burning him one! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 12:46:51 -0400 From: "Rajnai, Charles, NNAD" Subject: (exotica) orgeat > Nate-- > Consensus sez that you can use any high-q almond syrup of the type = used in cafe's to flavor your latte' as a substitute. I suggested that Creme = de Noyaux can be used, but Br. Cleve said since it is a liquor, its no = good in recipies. I say it is good in SOME, not all. I tried it in a mai tai and almost killed myself. I tried almond = extract once and that doesn't work because it lacks the syrupy stuff FYI...The Brimstones' page has a great recipe using creme de noyaux, = follow the link at the bottom... > My $.02 visit=20 THE BRIMSTONES Eternal Surf and Garage Damnation=20 at http://www.brimstones.com =20 =A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,= =B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=20 surfing the chaos,=20 Charlieman=20 cdr@brimstones.com=20 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:57:52 GMT From: "Tiki Head" Subject: RE: (exotica) Who wanted those tiki lights? >From: "Rajnai, Charles, NNAD" >Neither the moai lights, nor the ones at cheezy lights ar the ones I have >been looking for. I saw them hanging at a little place on the boardwalk, >where he got them, I dont know. THey were all the same color, and were >painted on the eyes and mouth. > >The search continues... > Charlieman, I don't know if these be the ones, but they look look the mask you posted early. (and they fit the recent descript.) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=391418955 If they are I see them on eBay alot, but they seem to fetch a pretty penny! good luck, em are... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ End of exotica-digest V2 #769 *****************************