From: owner-exotica-digest@lists.xmission.com (exotica-digest) To: exotica-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: exotica-digest V2 #921 Reply-To: exotica-digest Sender: owner-exotica-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-exotica-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes exotica-digest Wednesday, March 14 2001 Volume 02 : Number 921 In This Digest: (exotica) Re: Musical Luddite Re: Re: (exotica) Eno vs Billie Holiday Re: (exotica) Re: A Brighter View of Our Dark Age of Music (exotica) Unexpected Tipsy encounter in Las Vegas (exotica) Re: Vinnie Bell, DL Miller Re: (exotica) Re: Musical Luddite (exotica) Re: Go ahead and post. (exotica) Re: E-Bay Dealers(again): "JAGCAR" (exotica) Re: every other Fred Waring album I've ever seen sucks Re: Re: (exotica) Eno vs Billie Holiday (exotica) Butterfly Joe in Baltimore (exotica) Don't Get me Started on Vocal Groups .... RE: (exotica) Re: E-Bay Dealers(again): "JAGCAR" Re: Re: (exotica) Eno vs Billie Holiday Re: (exotica) Lest we forget!....... Re: (exotica) A Brighter View of Our Dark Age of Music (exotica) The crackling sound from a contracting aluminium dome Re: (exotica) Lest we forget!....... RE: (exotica) Demoiselles de Rochefort (spoiler) Re: RE: (exotica) Re: E-Bay Dealers(again): (exotica) RE: Musical Luddite (exotica) Fabricated Music (exotica) Songwriting Re: (exotica) RE: Musical Luddite Re: (exotica) Re: E-Bay Dealers(again): "JAGCAR" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:59:20 -0500 From: Ross Orr Subject: (exotica) Re: Musical Luddite Steve wrote: > Techno music all >sounds the same to me. No personality or musical expression at >all. Just relentless, mindless grooves. [...] >I think that there will be a blow out when computers make it >possible for EVERYONE to crank out mindless synthesized dribble. I wonder if a bit of a backlash isn't underway already. . . A while back, a friend gave me a ticket to a Medeski, Martin & Wood show. Beforehand, I did not know a thing about them, other than that Medeski had played some Hammond with Marc Ribot. I had the impression they were brainy NYC jazzbos or something. I was a bit startled to arrive at the theater and discover a wild neo-deadhead pagan scene underway--where I was a good 20 years older than the average. The show started, and the entire crowd stood up in their seats and began dreamily nodding to the music, and stayed that way for the whole two hours. In terms of musicianship, M,M,W are very tight and unafraid to take things in quirky directions--but stylistically. . . Eep! It sounded like an early-70s flashback to me: Long R&B-ish jamming, meandering solos, etc. (Cool vintage keyboard sounds, though.) I was starting to freak out, thinking that I REALLY did not belong at this show--until the insight slapped me upside the head, that all the twentysomethings around me had grown up heard nothing but grunge, rap and techno. For them, a long meandering live solo was something novel and exciting. I immediately chilled out--and ended up rather enjoying the show, at least in the sense of being grateful to experience the whole scene. So there's one "anti-mechanical" group who has found a following. . . cheers, --Ross || Ross "Mambo Frenzy" Orr || Ann Arbor, Michigan USA # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:19:36 -0500 From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: (exotica) Eno vs Billie Holiday >The older generations clearly win hands down on skill. Your points were true enough but I'm not sure this one completely is. Sure the cool thing about 50s/60s "easy listening" music was that much of it was made by skilled big band vets who kept it from pure schlock (at least sometimes). But classical music critics have been complaining for years that the general level of musical skill has increased to previously unimagined levels though at the expense of personality and imagination. There's enough recorded evidence to back them up (though there are some great descriptions of professional 19th century Italian orchestras so inept that they sound like the Portsmouth Sinfonia). Lately jazz critics and older musicians have made the same argument, saying that the numerous young musicians are technical demons but don't have much individuality. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:21:37 +0100 From: Moritz R Subject: Re: (exotica) Re: A Brighter View of Our Dark Age of Music "m.ace" schrieb: > You complain about Magnus dismissing machine music, but > then you dismiss live music as impractical and old fashioned. did I? > "Live music" on the other hand, always has an element of > danger, and even a ritual aspect. I can sign this statement... what's the point i this discussion? I'm certainly not arguing about personal taste. I think it's a pity if some dismisses anything new, just because computers were used to create it. To me this has nothing to do with the quality of the music, nor with craftmanship of the producers. Even old handplayed music can sound dull and soulless. the entire thread started with the explicit statements "music was better then than now" and someone had to disagree... Mo - -- studio R senses for a senseless world http://moritzR.de ......................................................................... n.e.u. Thierschstrasse 43 D 80538 Munchen Germany # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:06:40 -0800 From: "Wayno" Subject: (exotica) Unexpected Tipsy encounter in Las Vegas I recently spent a weekend in Las Vegas, and attended a Disney-fied topless revue called "Midnight Fantasies" at the Luxor Hotel (that monstrous glass pyramid thing). The show included an overbearing female singer (performing with prerecorded music), a lame impressionist and an even lamer comedian (who told tired "I hate airlines" jokes with the occasional cuss word thrown in for that "sophisticated" edge). Although the dancers were often sans-brassiere, they were less sexy than a random rerun of the June Taylor Dancers from the Jackie Gleason show. The music was a predictable mix of hits of the day: Madonna tunes, "Who Let The Dogs Out," one of any interchangable contemporary country numbers, etc. I was roused from my slumber when, near the end of the interminable hour, the sound system started blasting Tipsy's "Space Golf!" It sounded a bit different from the album version, so I'm guessing it must have been the single mix. This unexpected interlude only added to the surreal experience that is Las Vegas. Back on familiar turf, Wayno ***************************************************** Hand-crafted digital illustration by Wayno http://www.wayno.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:09:53 -0500 (EST) From: delicado@cheerful.com Subject: (exotica) Re: Vinnie Bell, DL Miller D.L. Miller productions- I have a couple of interesting UK issue LPs by 'the super guitar of lightnin red' which are DL Miller productions. They are from the early 70s, and are self-conciously funky and twangy. They can get a bit much, but there are some great cuts ('caravan', 'america'). Some have a very vinnie-bell type sound, but I don't think the playing is good enough to be him. Regarding Vinnie Bell, I found the 'airport love theme' record recently and love it. I have his 1964 (?) LP'whistle stop' on Verve. It is an odd LP. Produced by Claus Ogerman, but to me sounds very rock'n'roll, 50s- influenced, as opposed to the great string sound I love in later albums Ogerman produced. Not really recommended. But I would like to recommend an extremely obscure Vinnie Bell recording, which I have harped on about intermittently for years. Credited as 'the exotic guitars' (but NOT the same 'exotic guitars' which later released several albums on Ranwood), Vinnie Bell contributes 4 self-written instrumental tracks to an early 60s budget label Platters LP on Guest Star records. Two of them are quite amazingly brilliant - one is a hawaiian-exotic cut and the other is a catchy uptempo latin-sounding number. This LP is by the Platters, and is called 'Only you'; it pops up on ebay now and then, and can generally be had for $2 or so. cheers, jonny (in nyc) - ----------------------------------------------------- Get free personalized email at http://email.lycos.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:15:11 -0500 From: "Br. Cleve" Subject: Re: (exotica) Re: Musical Luddite on 3/14/01 9:59 AM, Ross Orr at mambofrenzy@earthlink.net wrote: > . . Eep! It sounded like an early-70s flashback to me: > Long R&B-ish jamming, meandering solos, etc. (Cool vintage keyboard > sounds, though.) > ......For them, a long meandering live solo was something novel > and exciting. > So there's one "anti-mechanical" group who has found a following. . . There's actually a very large following for this type of scene right now. A lot of these bands have played at the club I've been involved with and they continually sell out at around 300 patrons. This 'jam band' style comes out of the whole Grateful Dead/Phish phenomenon, but now stretches through the jazz of MM&W, the live techno of The New Deal, the trip hop/rap style of DJ Logic, the Zappa-jam sounds of Ike Willis, and more. The audience for this scene is young: 18-25, and very much fueled by Ecstasy, acid and weed (the bar sells very little liqour when these acts play, but lots of water and Red Bull) It's all pretty fusion sounding to me, too, and not to my taste. But it's true that these styles are popular with a crowd that was not alive (or in diapers) when they first appeared, just like styles in the rock sound (like punk, metal and noise rock) that keep reappearing with/for a new generation. But the audience for all these styles pales in comparison with the 2 most popular musical forms for young people today - hip hop and trance/progressive house, which are what really puts bodies in clubs right now. (here in Boston for example, Medeski Martin and Wood will sell out a 1500 capacity room, while Ministry of Sound DJ Judge Jules will sell out a 3000 capacity room, both at around $25 a ticket) Keep in mind I'm speaking only in terms of ticket sales/popularity and not artistic merit in all of the above. br cleve # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:54:57 -0600 From: "Colleen Pyles" Subject: (exotica) Re: Go ahead and post. Manuel, I was a lurker for a long time..because I knew what I liked, but I knew NOTHING about it. These people are knowlegeable, they can answer ANY question you ask. It's great. I, too, would like to hear about Bogata. BTW, I am curious as to how people found this list...anyone care to respond? Colleen _____________________________________ Get your free E-mail at http://www.ireland.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:12:55 +0100 From: Johan Dada Vis Subject: (exotica) Re: E-Bay Dealers(again): "JAGCAR" >From: Ben Waugh > She shipped it in a flimsy cardboard postal box. correct me if i'm wrong, listee eBay sellers should know this, but one eBay seller once told me "they get their LP boxes for free"... from eBay? i don't know, but this is what that seller wrote: "I PREFER A US MAILING. IT IS 4.00 PRIORITY AND WE GET THE BOXES FREE. OVERSEAS YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR MATERIALS ..." maybe that explains that flimsy cardboard postal box? Johan ----- # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:08:35 +0100 From: Johan Dada Vis Subject: (exotica) Re: every other Fred Waring album I've ever seen sucks >Brad Bigelow wrote: >And I'll put in another plug for "Two Sides of Fred Waring." >Now ... every other Fred Waring album I've ever seen sucks, though. here's another -- well, sort of -- good one: Uncle Lumpey, with Fred Waring and the Pennsylvanians: "The Adventures of Little Orley in story and song" LP, Vocalion VL 73737 simulated stereo, USA, 1960s Great kiddie record: wacky stories with lots of funny sounds, (and good backing music, if i remember well) Johan ----- # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:23:22 From: "Robert McKenna" Subject: Re: Re: (exotica) Eno vs Billie Holiday >But classical music critics have been complaining for years that the >general level of musical skill has increased to previously unimagined >levels though at the expense of personality and imagination.> So why do I keep hearing mistakes and shoddy timing? Not to mention orchestra members playing electroacoustic music being too arrogant to realise that they are responsible for the sound produced and therefore should really do proper soundchecks... Frank Zappa was disgusted with the lack of professionalism he encountered in chamber orchestras, obviously he didn't have that problem with Pierre Boulez led orchestras. Also anyone who has tried to play pop music with classical musicians will be aware of how comically inept they can be if they don't have dots on paper in front of them. snotilly, rob _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:28:13 -0500 From: "m.ace" Subject: (exotica) Butterfly Joe in Baltimore Butterfly Joe is playing Baltimore this Friday night. The secret love-child of Lee Hazlewood and Jonathan Richman. Or is that Jimmy Webb and Daniel Johnston? At The Otto Bar, 203 Davis St., Baltimore MD Phone: 410-752-6886 They are not the headliners and don't yet know who else is on the bill. Ain't life grand. m.ace mace@ookworld.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:48:55 -0600 From: Brad Bigelow Subject: (exotica) Don't Get me Started on Vocal Groups .... Double Six of Paris -- five stars, especially their Ray Charles album! Anything Christiane Legrand (Michel's sister) was involved in is worth checking out: Les Blue Stars (pre Double 6)--just got the "Jazz in Paris" CD from Dusty Groove. Four cuts with Christiane and Blossom Dearie. Swingle Singers (post-Double 6)--although a little bit goes a long way Quire--very hard to find but worth it Scandinavian groups: The Gimmicks--imitation Sergio Mendes/Brasil 66 to my ears, but at least there are tunes SM/B66 didn't do Gals and Pals--sorta Double 6 like, but they also have a fine Bacharach album The Monn Keys--rare "Dreamsville" LP on Omega Latin: The Brothers Castro--2 Lps on Capitol, "Latin and Hip" is a serious vocal jazz classic, with Walter Castro's beautiful tenor The Amigos (also listed as "The Four Amigos") Los Vegas and this just in, Los Zafiros, a Cuban doo-wop/vocal jazz group with a compilation CD out on Nonesuch ("Bossa Cubana") US: The Skipjacks (with a young Stella Stevens)--backed up Esquivel on his Christmas half-LP The Signatures--led by Bob Alcivar, who did a huge chunk of vocal arrangement work in the 60s The Hal Dickinson Singers (actually the Pied Pipers under an alias)--nice LP on Philips with Johnny Hamlin Dave Pell--Jazz Voice in Video on Liberty, sampled in the Ultra Lounge series The Smart Set on Warner Brothers The Axidentals--with Kai Winding on ABC The John La Salle Quartet--with Marlene ver Planck--also found on Ultra Lounge The Bill Gannon 3--anyone remember him from "What's My Line?" Group I--Great, great, great LP of Mancini covers--"The Brothers Go to Mothers--and Others!" The Eligibles--I think these guys were the real inspiration for the musical revue, "The Four Plaids" Alan Copeland Singers--remembered from the Red Skelton Show (anyone? anyone?) Singers Unlimited, of course, but for me, like the Swingles, best in small doses and many, many more ... Brad # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:54:25 -0500 From: "Usselman, Lawrence J" Subject: RE: (exotica) Re: E-Bay Dealers(again): "JAGCAR" The U.S Postal Service provides free mailing supplies (boxes, labels, tape, etc.) for its Priority Mail Service ($3.50 for up to 1 lb., $3.95 for up to 2 lbs.) This service can only be used within the United States. The Priority Mail boxes can be used for safely shipping record albums, but they require special preparation and additional padding/cushioning for the records. Basically, the large-size box is left unassembled and flat, the albums are wrapped in several layers of paper or bubble wrap, and pieces of corrugated cardboard are added as stiffeners and additional impact protection. The album is inserted into the flat package, the end flaps are securely taped, and the entire package ends up resembling a large flat cardboard sandwich, with the record safely between the slices of cardboard. If done correctly, these packages can be just as safe as custom LP mailer cartons, if not more so. You cannot just jam an album into an assembled box and expect it to arrive without damage. Regards, Larry - -----Original Message----- From: Johan Dada Vis [mailto:quiet@village.uunet.be] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:13 AM To: Exotica Newsletter Subject: (exotica) Re: E-Bay Dealers(again): "JAGCAR" correct me if i'm wrong, listee eBay sellers should know this, but one eBay seller once told me "they get their LP boxes for free"... from eBay? i don't know, but this is what that seller wrote: "I PREFER A US MAILING. IT IS 4.00 PRIORITY AND WE GET THE BOXES FREE. OVERSEAS YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR MATERIALS ..." maybe that explains that flimsy cardboard postal box? Johan # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:59:45 -0500 From: Brian Phillips Subject: Re: Re: (exotica) Eno vs Billie Holiday >Also anyone who has tried to play pop music with classical musicians will >be aware of how comically inept they can be if they don't have dots on >paper in front of them. ...and if they do? Listen to the wonderfully ham-fisted "Slide, Boy, Slide" on the original "House of Flowers". It swings with the ease of Pat Boone covering Lambert, Hendricks or Ross. Actually, on the Schickele Mix, he played two versions of "Single Petal of a Rose" and asked which was the classical musician and which was Duke Ellington and it was quite obvious. Ellington has the perhaps unfair advantage of interpreting his own work, but the other version sounded like an etude; almost no emotion at all. Musicians if they do their homework and have the talent, should be able to play anything. For example, Johnny Otis is Greek by descent, but he decided to play Jazz and Rhythm and Blues and does so quite well, but he did his homework. That cat was going "do-do-dweee, shooby...", Brian Phillips, not yet a wholly owned subsidiary of Ken Burns Worldwide # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:53:18 -0800 From: Christine Karkow Subject: Re: (exotica) Lest we forget!....... on 3/5/01 11:18 AM, Nathan Miner at nminer@jhmi.edu wrote: Well, I listen to Lenny Dee when I do the dishes. Its "normal" to me. And, a funny note, I used to hate Lenny Dee when I was little and my parents played it. I even went so far as to take my dad's label maker (remember those old red labels with the raised white type?) and wrote "Bad Music" and put it on the LP that I now own. I guess I have grown up to see the light. christine > > And there I sat writing bills acting like this was "normal" music - ah, I'm > lost I tell ya.......!! :-) > > - Nate # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:19:34 -0500 From: "m.ace" Subject: Re: (exotica) A Brighter View of Our Dark Age of Music > > You complain about Magnus dismissing machine music, but > > then you dismiss live music as impractical and old fashioned. > >did I? Well, that was the implication I took from: >I don't see a great value in spending years of your life just to >be able to play a drum set as straight as a computer. >According to this thinking, the use of a washing machine >would be a bad thing. But if that wasn't what you meant, never mind. (Of course, a drummer working with that sole goal would be wrong. The idea is more to achieve precision so that you can then play around with time.) >what's the point in this discussion? Uuuuh, I think it's the usual exoticalist drift. ^_- We start off at Point A and wind up at Point .39148378 - --m.ace # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:23:25 +0100 (CET) From: "Magnus Sandberg" Subject: (exotica) The crackling sound from a contracting aluminium dome It says on the backcover on Taboo vol 2 that the odd noises you hear on some tracks on the album are noises from the dome itself when the sun sets and the metal contracts due to the lesser heat. I can hear odd sounds on Hi Lili Hi LO, is it it? To me it sounds like tiki is commenting the current 'masterpiece in progress' in person. What a great album, just got my own copy today. I am a huge fan of Arthur Lyman. To know that he just some weeks ago according to Kevin, performed Love Dance (which is featured on this album) makes it even more fascinating. - -----------Go Buzz!------------ http://www.bellybongo.com/gobuzz/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:34:55 -0500 From: Clayton Black Subject: Re: (exotica) Lest we forget!....... > From: Christine Karkow > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:53:18 -0800 > To: exotica@xmission.com > Subject: Re: (exotica) Lest we forget!....... > > on 3/5/01 11:18 AM, Nathan Miner at nminer@jhmi.edu wrote: > Well, I listen to Lenny Dee when I do the dishes. Its "normal" to me. And, > a funny note, I used to hate Lenny Dee when I was little and my parents > played it. I even went so far as to take my dad's label maker (remember > those old red labels with the raised white type?) and wrote "Bad Music" and > put it on the LP that I now own. I guess I have grown up to see the light. > > christine >> >> And there I sat writing bills acting like this was "normal" music - ah, I'm >> lost I tell ya.......!! :-) >> >> - Nate I'm glad to see the subject of Lenny Dee come up--he's just such a bizarre figure. "My Favorite Things" was one of the first albums of his that I bought, and it's still one of my favorites. But it was in that period of transition to watered-down electronic versions of current pop. I don't particularly like "Easy Come, Easy Go" or the other late albums, but the early stuff is incomparable. The biography of him at Space Age Pop (which doesn't seem to be up at the moment?) is nice, but I'd love to read a full-length book on him. It's not that I like him more than other artists. In fact, I often find his off-the-wall takes on tunes (especially the various "Rags") hard to listen to. But there just doesn't seem to be anybody at all like him. I've read in several places that he had his own restaurant in Florida (St. Pete?)--is it long gone? Did anybody on the list ever visit it? I saw that Lenny wrote the foreword to a book on album covers, so I take it he's still kicking? If Lenny Dee works well for washing dishes and paying bills, I wonder how he'll be for grading papers--guess I'll give it a try. Clayton # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:45:23 -0800 From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: (exotica) Demoiselles de Rochefort (spoiler) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-exotica@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-exotica@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Moritz R > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 7:07 AM > yes, it's a musical too. But you've gotta SEE it. Catherine > Deneuve plays in it and her older sister Fran=E7oise Dorl=E9ac, who > is even more beautiful, and who died in a car crash that same > year the film was made. I've never really liked musicals, but both Demy films (and "Singin' in th= e Rain") are testimonies to the sheer joy of filmmaking (and song, and danc= e, and music -- that Legrand's a genius). Any recommendations to add to thos= e three? I have a quick question about the film. (Don't read below if you don't wa= nt to spoil the movie!) s p o i l e r s p a c e h e r e What happens at the end? Did Demy mean for the couple to miss each other again, though in a less cosmic sense than they do at the end of Les Parapluies? Wonderful film, but I feel a bit cheated of a teary cathartic moment. =3D= ) Especially after all those near misses! Later, Ben http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara ICQ: 12832406 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:56:26 -0500 From: nytab@pipeline.com Subject: Re: RE: (exotica) Re: E-Bay Dealers(again): "Usselman, Lawrence J" wrote: If done correctly, these packages can be just as safe as custom LP mailer cartons, if not more so. You cannot just jam an album into an assembled box and expect it to arrive without damage. =============== Yeah, one would think, but... I arrived home yesterday to find a USPO Priority box containing my first eBay LP (CK, it's the Arpia vol.4). The box looked like it had been stepped on and came completely wrapped in plastic. When I removed the plastic I realized this was because the box was soaking wet. Yep, they managed to drop it in water and then seal the water in! Fortunately the record itself was wrapped in plastic bubble wrap and the box filled with shredded paper. Miraculously, the LP arrived intact and with no evidence of the adventure the box had gone through. Amazing though, huh?! lousmith@pipeline.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:56:47 -0500 From: George Hall Subject: (exotica) RE: Musical Luddite bigshot@spumco.com wrote: >I think that there will be a blow out when computers make it >possible for EVERYONE to crank out mindless synthesized dribble. >Then the musicians who make this stuff will see that they don't >have an corner on the market for E-Z to create synth-drones and >beat in a box rhythms. This will be force them to return to >*being able to play instruments well*. > >The sessions guys who made the percussion records of the fifties >were 100 times the musicians of the people making similar sounding >stuff today. And these guys were just *average* for their time! >Kenny G gets a world record for the longest sustained note... Who >cares? Louis Armstrong could chop or squeeze a note an make it >sing. Expressiveness and craftsmanship aren't dead. They are just >sleeping it off. > >I'm with you on this one, Magnus... >See ya >Steve > I'm kinda with you, but as far as musicians being forced to "play instruments well," at a certain point you get into... the "Steve Vai Problem" (or Sanborn, Toto, etc...). There are TONS of remarkable & worthy musicians around and about these days, still-active greats like Mose Allison, Paul Motian, Jimmy Smith, Plas Johnson, Max Roach; Caetano Veloso is doing some of his best work, & I'm enjoying Dave Douglas, Bill Frisell, Beck, Laika & the Cosmonauts, Latin Playboys, Junior Brown, a slew of Japanese stuff that I haven't the $$ to keep track of... You're just not as likely to hear it on the radio. What you are likely to hear are, on the one hand, a lot of one-hit wonders that are essentially Cute Young Things dropped into production-house tracks & digitally harmonized into acceptable pitch-accuracy, & tired hard-guy rock boys with drop-tuned guitars & a couple sampled gestures towards modernity... there's more, but you know what I'm saying. I guess I ultimately find no inherent problem with drum machines & such, tho the ubiquity of the "perfect" beat aesthetic (sequencing, quantizing etc) gets annoying like everything does when I hear it too much. Still, fake strings & various machines can certainly help to get a decent sound for cheap when you have an idea in your head & no other means. And the same attempts at faking a sound have in the past given us the mellotron, analog synthesis, & even the kind of homegrown phony "world" music that drew many of us to this list. Often despised in their time, a lot of these sounds take on an "otherness" when removed from it & the things they attempted to replicate. I also think there are at least as many great percussionists around today as back then, mostly in the latin world as I can see. & God love Harry Breuer, but he also got more money, play, etc than Patato Valdes, Chaino Pozo, etc. The stuff that makes me crazy is the tendancy towards Extremely Huge Sounds that play on an acoustic "realism" that does not exist in nature; that sense of implied grandeur, profundity & lack of human scale that to my ears unites the Peter Gabriels (who I quite liked in the day) & John Teshes of the world tend to leave me (& their own content) behind. Given the fact that just about every situation you can name is equipped with some sort of soundtrack (from tv shows, shopping malls, subways, advertisements, etc) it makes sense that the manner in which music is used has evolved in all kinds of ways, many of them at the very least non-aesthetic (read as "sucky"). & this reflects on how & why music is created. Still, I think creative music will always find a way. I saw trumpeter Dave Douglas for the first time with John Zorn's Masada some years years ago, & he was doing all kinds of extraordinary & unexpected things, all with a amazing sense of history that would make Wynton... uh, probably turn to Stanley & mumble something about gumbo. I realize that this is turning into one of those unwieldy & unfocused screeds that does not resolve to a point, but... in addition to Shutting Up now... I'd also say, re the "baggage" issue, that while I seldom have time to contribute to the more thoughtful threads, the posts which frame opinions in passionate, possibly windy & likely quixotic terms are one of the things I most look forward to here. gh # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:30:35 -0800 From: bigshot Subject: (exotica) Fabricated Music exotica-digest wrote: >Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:51:49 -0500 >From: "m.ace" >Subject: Re: (exotica) Re: A Brighter View of Our Dark Age of Music > >"Fabricated" pieces of >music are inert objects, like paintings or sculptures. This is not a point >for dismissal... Any good artist will tell you that the act of creation is NOT fabrication, but *performance*. It's a spontaneous expression made possible by years of concentrated study of technique. Paintings and sculptures are no different from Dizzy Gillespie standing on stage at Birdland improvising. The medium may be different, but the creative process is the same. Removing spontaneous expression and mastry of technique from either music or art reduces it to a cheap manufacturing process, not a creative one. "Fabricated" music is about as valuable as those production line "sofa sized oil paintings" you see lined up against the wall at the gas station. I find no problem at all with dismissing it out of hand. See ya Steve Stephen Worth bigshot@spumco.com The Web: http://www.spumco.com Usenet: alt.animation.spumco Palace: cartoonsforum.com:9994 Spumco International 1021 Grandview, 2nd Floor Glendale, CA 91201 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:30:33 -0800 From: bigshot Subject: (exotica) Songwriting exotica-digest wrote: >I'd say that another lamentable loss is the disappearance of >the songwriter. No more are the Cole Porters, Irving Berlins, Jerome Kerns, >etc. Everybody's got to be their own songwriter, and frankly, VERY few of >them even approach genuine skill in that category. Strangely enough, the Beatles are to blame for this. They were *great* songwriters, and absolute geniuses when it came to musicality. They had a firm basis in early rock n' roll. But as musicians, they were just passable. No great shakes. All the bands that followed the Beatles saw was that "passable musicians" could become a worldwide success on an unprecidented level without ever really having to play live. These medicore amateur musicians wanted to become Beatles too, but they only had a tiny iota of the musicality and songwriting ability that the Beatles had. They didn't let that didn't stop them. These lame-ass wannabe Beatles wrote their own lame-ass songs, goofed around with overdubbing and sound effects to appeal to the drug crowd, hired trippy illustrators to do their album covers and named themselves Pink Floyd, Yes and ELO. The Beatles were great, but they were a *terrible* example for others to follow. "Art Rock" is neither art nor rock. See ya Steve Stephen Worth bigshot@spumco.com The Web: http://www.spumco.com Usenet: alt.animation.spumco Palace: cartoonsforum.com:9994 Spumco International 1021 Grandview, 2nd Floor Glendale, CA 91201 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:27:30 +0100 (CET) From: "Magnus Sandberg" Subject: Re: (exotica) RE: Musical Luddite citerar George Hall : I'd also say, re the "baggage" issue, that while I seldom have time > to contribute to the more thoughtful threads, the posts which frame > opinions > in passionate, possibly windy & likely quixotic terms are one of the things > I most look forward to here. > gh You got a place in my heart George! A very thoughtful post, I actually tend to forget that many of the heroes of the past is still alive today and makes just as good music. I can see my enemy of today: Producers! Money! Digital dehumanization! Wrong kind of drugs! Cute teenagers! Its a holy mission! Why are the elderly so silent! It is their right to hear decent music on the radio. Magnus # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:59:50 -0800 (PST) From: Ben Waugh Subject: Re: (exotica) Re: E-Bay Dealers(again): "JAGCAR" I suspect that the individual you are quoting meant that he or she gets the boxes free of charge. I suspect everyone else pays for their boxes or, like myself, simply recycles the more secure and lp-friendly boxes accumulated over time. I do not agree with Larry that the flat postal boxes (or any postal boxes, for that matter) are as secure as lp mailers or even a cut-down cardboard box. The flat mailers are sealed by strong adhesive. If the lp is unprotected, as mine was, there is damage (I've had several shipments where the lp had slid out of the jacket and become stuck fast). These boxes do not fit securely around the lp. They leave room for shifting. If someone is charging $5 for S/H (domestic US), which is exorbitant, they had better devote the entirety of it to securing the item shipped. That means using a box cut to fit an lp. - --- Johan Dada Vis wrote: > correct me if i'm wrong, listee eBay sellers should > know > this, but one eBay seller once told me "they get > their LP boxes for > free"... from eBay? i don't know, but this is what > that seller wrote: > "I PREFER A US MAILING. IT IS 4.00 PRIORITY AND WE > GET THE BOXES FREE. > OVERSEAS YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR MATERIALS ..." > > maybe that explains that flimsy cardboard postal > box? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info exotica" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email exotica@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ End of exotica-digest V2 #921 *****************************