From: owner-fractdev-digest@lists.xmission.com (fractdev-digest) To: fractdev-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: fractdev-digest V1 #30 Reply-To: fractdev-digest Sender: owner-fractdev-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-fractdev-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk fractdev-digest Saturday, April 8 2000 Volume 01 : Number 030 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:20:54 -0600 From: Tim Wegner Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files Paul wrote: > My name is Paul de Leeuw, the author of ManpWin. I am interested in = > getting a definition for a fractal chunk in PNG and am interested in = > getting comments on a definition I'm working on. I have been corresponding for a while with Paul about his program Manpwin. The time is right to work on the PNG chunk. I'm glad he's pushing us to get this done :-) The first job is to define the content. Then there are some technical issues as to how the chunk should be put together. We don't need to solve these first (the first job is just to decide what to put in), but let me get them on the table so everyone is aware, even though the first job is not the technicalities but the content. 1. PNG has a design philosophy not to use revision numbers. This means that once a chunk is defined it doesn't change. If you need something later, a new chunk is created. When fRAc was first proposed, I discussed this with the PNG team. It isn't practical to define everything we'll ever need for fractals up front, so I proposed that the fRAc chunk be designed with "subchunks". Each one of these would be permanent. That way we wouldn't litter the PNG chunk name space with multiple chunks, because all these would be inside fRAc. This implies that we should identify reasonable subchunks. The generalized center-mag coordinates would be an example of something that deserves its own subchunk. We don't have to do this just because it was the original idea, but it would be very un-PNG-like to have a chunk with an internal revsion number and a constantly increasing number of parameters, so we should try to avoid this. I'll raise this on the PNG list and see if the years of experience have altered thinking on this. 2. A huge problem with Fractint parameter storage in GIFs is that we just wrote binary numbers to the GIF file. Anyone familiar with Xfractint knows that Ken Shirriff had to write all kinds of byte-order and IEEE floating point conversion routines to decode the fractint binary numbers. For this reason values should be probably be written in text. This also would allow seemless support for arbitrary precision. 3. I do not favor just putting the old fractint parameters in fRAc. There are some problems in the way we originally did things and this is a good time to break with the past. 4. Let me point out that PNG does have a system for preserving GIF extension blocks. I don't know if anyone uses this :-) This might or might not be a good idea, but for starters we could use this feature. The original intent was to allow a way to non- destructively convert GIF to PNG without losing the extension blocks. It also allows conversion software that doesn't know about Fractint to convert PNG to GIF. The downside is that time has gone by, and it might not be worth the trouble to mess with the GIF extension block chunks. Once fRAc is defined, the conversion program could convert straight to fRAc. This is another issue we need to think about. I have suggested to Paul that he use either a text comment chunk or make his own Manpwin chunk for now. You could do a lot worse than put PAR files in a text block. Note that PNG has mechanisms for compressed text chunks. I'll look at this some more this weekend. Tim - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:35:56 -0700 From: Phil McRevis Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files In article <38D722D6.16261.24C10F@localhost>, Tim Wegner writes: > I have suggested to Paul that he use either a text comment chunk > or make his own Manpwin chunk for now. You could do a lot > worse than put PAR files in a text block. Note that PNG has > mechanisms for compressed text chunks. My suggestion is this: Include (as text, with an option for compression) everything needed to regenerate the image: colormap formula definition L-system definition IFS definition parameter settings One weakness of the previous method of storing information in the image file was that if the image was generated from a formula, you had to have the .frm file in order to zoom the image. I know some artists have relied on this fact to "hide" their formulas and keep them proprietary. If that is desired, simply remove the parameter chunk from the PNG file rather than store an incomplete or brain-dead parameter block. - -- Legalize Adulthood! ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol, at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT legalize@xmission.com - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:34:05 +1100 From: "Paul de Leeuw" Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files Team, I am currently using a tEXt chunk for ManpWin to store local versions of the parameter file and it works fine. The real difficulty I am having is that true colour images have 16.777 Million possibilities per pixel for 24 bit colour. Reversable algorithms for determining the iteration count per pixel is very difficult. Hence it is necessary to store 16 (or 32) bits per pixel to enable regeneration of the iteration count matrix. This info needs to go into a special chunk. See below. Any comments appreciated, Thanks, Paul. /*********************************************************************** FRACHUNK.H Definition of all fractal data to be written to the fRAc chunk Written by Paul de Leeuw 21/3/2000 ***********************************************************************/ #ifndef FRACHUNK_H #define FRACHUNK_H struct fractal_info // for saving data in PNG file { /* This next pointer is to allow the iteration count for each pixel to be saved for resumption of the fractal. As there is no simple reverse method for calculating iteration count from true colour images, the lot needs to be saved. This is very large for a standard 1024*768 screen will be 1.57 MBytes if ints are used or 3.15 MBytes if longs are used. Hence compression is needed for this data. HELP???????? */ #ifdef ALLOW_32BIT_ITERATION long *PixelData; #else short *PixelData; #endif bla bla bla - ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil McRevis To: Sent: Wednesday, 22 March 2000 04:35 Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files > > In article <38D722D6.16261.24C10F@localhost>, > Tim Wegner writes: > > > I have suggested to Paul that he use either a text comment chunk > > or make his own Manpwin chunk for now. You could do a lot > > worse than put PAR files in a text block. Note that PNG has > > mechanisms for compressed text chunks. > > My suggestion is this: > > Include (as text, with an option for compression) everything needed to > regenerate the image: > > colormap > formula definition > L-system definition > IFS definition > parameter settings > > One weakness of the previous method of storing information in the > image file was that if the image was generated from a formula, you had > to have the .frm file in order to zoom the image. > > I know some artists have relied on this fact to "hide" their formulas > and keep them proprietary. If that is desired, simply remove the > parameter chunk from the PNG file rather than store an incomplete or > brain-dead parameter block. > -- > Legalize Adulthood! > ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol, > at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT > legalize@xmission.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List > Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:15:53 -0700 From: Phil McRevis Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files In article <002501bf93fa$fe27ee00$0200a8c0@BigPond.com>, "Paul de Leeuw" writes: > struct fractal_info // for saving data in PNG file > { > /* > This next pointer is to allow the iteration count for each pixel to be saved > for resumption > of the fractal. As there is no simple reverse method for calculating > iteration count from > true colour images, the lot needs to be saved. This is very large for a > standard 1024*768 > screen will be 1.57 MBytes if ints are used or 3.15 MBytes if longs are > used. Hence > compression is needed for this data. HELP???????? > */ You can store the iteration count per-pixel as a PNG image with 1-channel and 16-bits/channel for 16-bit iteration counts. You can pack 32-bits/pixel if you store it as a 2-channel image (grayscale w/alpha) and store the two 16-bit chunks of a 32-bit quantity in the two channels. Similarly for higher bits/pixel. There is compressible coherency in the iteration count, so by storing the iteration count as its own PNG image you reduce the disk storage costs of the iteration count considerably. However, this leads to two PNG streams: one for the color data and another for the iteration count data. Once the image is finished rendering you can get rid of the iteration count data and just keep the colors. (It could be re-used on a zoom if you have a zooming algorithm that exploits zoom-to-zoom coherency, but watch out for aliasing; you'll have to do some manual infinite mipmap like tricks to pull it off correctly.) You can package the two PNG streams into a single file. If you do this, I'd suggest a raw concatenation of the two PNG images with the color image first. Then the two PNG streams can't be separated on the hard drive and the image stream can always be read by PNG aware clients. I suppose you could even package up the second PNG stream as an application specific data chunk inside the first stream, but that seems more complicated. I don't know how the png library or image viewing programs deal with extraneous appended data to the PNG stream; if lots of programs complain about this unexpected data, it might be better to wrap the PNG iteration count 'image' inside one or more application chunks. (You may need more than one if you overflow the valid size of a chunk, but I can't recall what that limit is right now.) - -- Legalize Adulthood! ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol, at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT legalize@xmission.com - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:43:25 -0600 From: "Scott D. Boyd" Subject: Xfractint menu questions This message is directed to all the Xfractint users out there. I am working on cleaning up the user interface of Xfractint so that the prompts are more appropriate to Linux/Unix users. (Such as changing the function-key prompts to Shift-n prompts. I have a couple of questions for other people running Xfractint with Linux (or other Unix-based OS's): 1.Can anyone use the `Delete' key for the Main Menu selection: "select video mode ". In my case, `Delete' doesn't work. I have to press the `Enter' key only when this menu item is highlighted. (I know we can't select a video mode, but still I have to press `Enter' to draw the fractal.) If the delete key works for you, please also let me know what OS you are using. (Linux, HP-UX, Solaris, *BSD, etc.) I just want to make sure that this isn't happening only to me because of some hidden, arcane setting in some keyboard-map file. 2. While going thru one of the source files that deals with the main menu, I realized that everything below "restart Fractint " is missing, such as color-cycling, pallette editing, make starfield, etc. Is this common to all Xfractint installations? I can remove a certain condition in the source file, re-compile, and the menu items will show up. Color-cycling still won't work, (when I press the C key, I get a beep) but the others will. Please email me with your results. I realize that there may not be many Xfractint users subscribed to the fractint-development mailing list, so I'm also posting this to the regular fractint users mailing list. If you are reading this on *that* list, please respond directly to me, so as not to clutter up the regular fractint list with answers to a development question. Thanks, Scott D. Boyd - -- email: sdboyd@fastlane.net http://www.fastlane.net/~sdboyd/ Introducing Windows 2000 !! -- Now reduced to only 65,000 bugs !! - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:21:25 -0600 From: "Scott D. Boyd" Subject: Follow up to my prev. Xfractint questions On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, I asked: > > 1.Can anyone use the `Delete' key for the Main Menu selection: "select video > mode ". In my case, `Delete' doesn't work. I have to press the `Enter' > key only when this menu item is highlighted. (I know we can't select a video > mode, but still I have to press `Enter' to draw the fractal.) If the delete key > works for you, please also let me know what OS you are using. (Linux, HP-UX, > Solaris, *BSD, etc.) I just want to make sure that this isn't happening only to > me because of some hidden, arcane setting in some keyboard-map file. > I failed to mention that I can also press "D" for this menu item. But the original question still stands: "Can anyone use the "Delete" key? (My "Insert" key works, but not the "Delete" key.) > 2. While going thru one of the source files that deals with the main menu, I > realized that everything below "restart Fractint " is missing, such as > color-cycling, pallette editing, make starfield, etc. Is this common to all > Xfractint installations? I can remove a certain condition in the source file, > re-compile, and the menu items will show up. Color-cycling still won't work, > (when I press the C key, I get a beep) but the others will. > I have discovered that I was having this problem because I wasn't using the `-private' option when I start Xfractint. I was using `-fixcolors 256' instead. So no need to answer question #2. Thanks, Scott D. Boyd - -- email: sdboyd@fastlane.net http://www.fastlane.net/~sdboyd/ Introducing Windows 2000 !! -- Now reduced to only 65,000 bugs !! - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:03:52 +1100 From: "Paul de Leeuw" Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files Phil, I like the sound of this one. If I can get compression, it would be great. I would insist that if it were to be saved as a PNG file that it would be viewable by any standard PNG viewer. Would the two images (real colours and iteration count per pixel) conflict? How would I set this up (I am a bit new to PNG and have only used the standard PNGLIB library functions)? Any help gratefully appreciated. Many thanks, Paul. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil McRevis To: Sent: Thursday, 23 March 2000 07:15 Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files bla bla > > You can store the iteration count per-pixel as a PNG image with > 1-channel and 16-bits/channel for 16-bit iteration counts. > > You can pack 32-bits/pixel if you store it as a 2-channel image > (grayscale w/alpha) and store the two 16-bit chunks of a 32-bit > quantity in the two channels. Similarly for higher bits/pixel. bla bla > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List > Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" > - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:31:58 -0700 From: Phil McRevis Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files In article <105201bf95dc$da936620$0200a8c0@BigPond.com>, "Paul de Leeuw" writes: > I like the sound of this one. If I can get compression, it would be great. I > would insist that if it were to be saved as a PNG file that it would be > viewable by any standard PNG viewer. Then you have two choices -- either embed the iteration counts inside the PNG color image as an application-specific chunk that really contains another PNG image (watch out for chunk size overflow); or save two files: one for the color and another for the iteration count. PNG applications are supposed to skip chunks they don't understand, so a custom chunk shouldn't throw off a well written viewer or utility program. If you save two files, it has the advantage that someone can share their partially computed with someone else without having to send all the iteration count data as well. Of course the other person can't continue the calculation where the first person left off in that case. If that is desired, they can simply send the two files and not just the color image. > Would the two images (real colours and iteration count per pixel) conflict? I'm not sure what you're asking here? > How would I set this up (I am a bit new to PNG and have only used the > standard PNGLIB library functions)? Probably the easiest thing to do while you're developing is to store two files: one for the color image and another for the iteration count data. When storing the iteration count data (are you using 16-bit iteration counts or 32?), you just extract the bytes from the iteration count and "pretend" they are color channels. For 16-bit iteration counts you can simply create a 16-bit grayscale image file and you don't have to worry about the byte extraction. That's probably the easiest to start with and 64K iterations is a lot-- but I know how you fractal guys are, you always want more... like me :-). - -- Legalize Adulthood! ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol, at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT legalize@xmission.com - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 23:26:49 -0600 From: "Paul N. Lee" Subject: Fractal Census 2000 Greetings, It has been about two weeks since the request for the "Fractal Census" was made, and still receiving an occasional email. I have been compiling this information into a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet, and was only entering the basic stats that was requested. But, decided to expand with additional information (web sites, email addresses, physical addresses, telephone numbers, birthdates, spouses and family members, etc.). It has gotten so large, that it now resembles a small database. I have only taken six of the key fields: Names Various Products Used Qty. Best or Most Used Email Addresses Web Sites to use in the creation of a web page: http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/Fractal_Census.html This is not the completed census data, which will take a few more hours (or may be days) to finish. But I thought I would publish what I have gathered so for. If someone finds the information for them inaccurate or incomplete, then please reply to the following email address: MAILTO:ABPF_Bot@hotmail.com Sincerely, P.N.L. - -------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 06:41:47 -0400 From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: Fractal Census 2000 Hi Paul, Please don't include my e-mail address on your census web page. Thanks. Damien M. Jones \\ dmj@fractalus.com \\ Fractalus Galleries & Info: \\ http://www.fractalus.com/ - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 17:51:31 -0600 From: Tim Wegner Subject: Concatenated strings Scott Boyd has submitted some Xfractint prompt cleanup of places where Xfractint is reporting prompts that don't work in Xfractint. I am trying to simplify his suggestions, which use the XFRACT define whenever the Xfractint prompts are different from the Fractint prompts. I created a mechanism a long time ago for defines like #ifndef XFRACT #define UPARR "\x18" #define DNARR "\x19" #define RTARR "\x1A" #define LTARR "\x1B" #else #define UPARR "K" #define DNARR "J" #define RTARR "L" #define LTARR "H" #endif These were meant to be used like this: static FCODE instr1[] = {"Use " UPARR " and " DNARR " to select values to change"}; but are actually used like this: #ifndef XFRACT static FCODE instr1[] = {"Use " UPARR " and " DNARR " to select values to change"}; #else /* Some compilers don't accept "a" "b", so we have to fill in UPARR ourself. */ static char far instr1[] = {"Use up(K) and down(J) to select values to change"}; #endif Note the comment. Do I still have to worry about compilers that don't support string concatination like this: printf("hello ""world\n"); The GCC compiler supports it. The reason I want to do this is that I am on a campaign to eliminate the XFRACT define whenever possible. Any ANSI-compatible compiler, including BSD and Linux GNU C compiler, should be OK. Tim - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:05:20 -0400 From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: Fractal Census 2000 Hi List, - Please don't include my e-mail address on your census web page. Thanks. Whoops. This was supposed to go to Paul. I'm not at all sure how it ended up here! Sorry for the foul-up, folks. Damien M. Jones \\ dmj@fractalus.com \\ Fractalus Galleries & Info: \\ http://www.fractalus.com/ Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or in a newsgroup. Thank you. - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 20:58:40 -0500 From: "Paul N. Lee" Subject: Re: Fractal Census 2000 Damien M. Jones wrote: > > Hi Paul, Hey there... :-) > > Please don't include my e-mail address > on your census web page. Thanks. No problem, I will have it removed the next time I update the data base, and upload as soon as possible. BTW, you might wish to tell Tim Wegner to do the same for this URL: http://www.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractint/archive/v01.n406 You are listed there at least three times. Then there are the various other URL's around the world, such as the following: http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~dzubera/2600faq.txt which has a couple it it. Sincerely, P.N.L. - -------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 21:13:03 -0600 From: Tim Wegner Subject: Re: Fractal Census 2000 Paul wrote: > BTW, you might wish to tell Tim Wegner to do the same for this URL: > http://www.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractint/archive/v01.n406 > You are listed there at least three times. It's a side effect of majordomo lists that all email addresses are exposed in the archive. If it's a problem I can probably turn off the archiving feature. - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:10:12 -0400 From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: Fractal Census 2000 Tim, - It's a side effect of majordomo lists that all email addresses are - exposed in the archive. If it's a problem I can probably turn off the - archiving feature. Well naturally I would prefer my e-mail address not be published in a web-accessible version of the list. Paul, I'm well aware that my address shows up in lots of places on the web. The 2600 FAQ lists it for a rather interesting reason, I think. :-) Usually I ask them all to be removed, just as I asked you. I've discovered that a fair bit of spam comes from web site harvesting, so that's why I ask. I doubt I'll eliminate all of it, but I sure cut out most of the spam sent to ifl@fractalus.com when I removed it from the IFL pages. So, removing as many as I can helps. Now that I think about it, though, I don't recall submitting information to your fractal census. Why am I listed at all? I never thought for a moment you would personally identify all the participants, either. Certainly when I think of "census" I don't think of "directory listing". Damien M. Jones \\ dmj@fractalus.com \\ Fractalus Galleries & Info: \\ http://www.fractalus.com/ Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or in a newsgroup. Thank you. - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 12:41:36 -0600 From: Phil McRevis Subject: Re: Concatenated strings In article <38E788A3.31071.3EB4F7@localhost>, Tim Wegner writes: > Note the comment. Do I still have to worry about compilers that > don't support string concatination like this: > > printf("hello ""world\n"); No. This has been standard in ANSI C and ANSI C++ for quite some time. Any compiler that doesn't support this is a very old compiler. - -- Legalize Adulthood! ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol, at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT legalize@xmission.com - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:46:33 -0600 From: Tim Wegner Subject: Re: Fractal Census 2000 Damien wrote: > Well naturally I would prefer my e-mail address not be published in a > web-accessible version of the list. I feel that way too. I am investigating whether this can be turned off without turning off the digest. It might be a simple as changing read permission on the archive directory. I'll do this if possible. I don't see a way to do it in the majordomo config file. Tim - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 20:13:54 -0600 From: Tim Wegner Subject: Re: Concatenated strings Rich wrote: > No. This has been standard in ANSI C and ANSI C++ for quite some > time. Any compiler that doesn't support this is a very old compiler. I knew that, but I needed someone to give me permission :-) This makes a much cleaner way to do the platform-specific user interface via defines with strings like: "To get help press"FK_F1 Of course this will be moot when we do the GUI, but for now it is useful. If nobody complains, I will massage Scott's user interface changes using defines and string concatenation. Tim - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:51:39 -0500 From: "Jonathan Osuch" Subject: Xfractint julia off by one Tim, I've fixed the off by one problem with Xfractint's julia type. Now I have two minor fixes. I was thinking about starting to incorporate some of Rich's file/routine reorganization. The ones that don't break anything. Jonathan - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 21:58:13 -0500 From: "Scott D. Boyd" Subject: Re: Concatenated strings On Mon, 03 Apr 2000, you wrote: I have no complaints Tim, go ahead. Scott > "To get help press"FK_F1 > > Of course this will be moot when we do the GUI, but for now it is > useful. > > If nobody complains, I will massage Scott's user interface changes > using defines and string concatenation. > - -- email: sdboyd@fastlane.net http://www.fastlane.net/~sdboyd/ Introducing Windows 2000 !! -- Reduced to only 65,000 bugs !! - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 13:42:34 -0600 From: Tim Wegner Subject: Re: Concatenated strings I was about to upload patch 10 with my version of Scott's Xfractint keystroke prompts, when I realized we have made a big oversight. On my Linux system, Xfractint uses all the Fractint keys, so all the new prompts are wrong!! Fortunately, the way I am doing this is via defines for the prompts in fractint.h, so I just need to investigate where the keystroke choice is selected, and then make the right set of defines to be active in fractint.h. I'm just alerting folks because so you know I am working on this. I have also promised Paul de Leeuw that I'd look at the fRAc chunk. So much to do, so little time :-) Tim - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 15:39:04 -0600 From: Tim Wegner Subject: Patch 10 I've put patch 10 at ftp.fractint.org. The diff is: ftp.fractint.org/2000p10.zip I have also updated various other files for patch 10. I have punted on the Xfractint prompts for now. Patch 10 implements the alterntative prompts - e.g. shift-1 for F1, even though they may not be needed. We need to make a define that allows the DOS function key prompts to be used with Xfravtint if appropriate. Thanks to Scott Boyd for helping with this patch. The xfractint source files has been updated so you can try it. Tim - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 18:22:32 -0500 From: "Scott D. Boyd" Subject: Re: Concatenated strings Tim, On Sat, 08 Apr 2000, you wrote: > I was about to upload patch 10 with my version of Scott's Xfractint > keystroke prompts, when I realized we have made a big oversight. > > On my Linux system, Xfractint uses all the Fractint keys, so all the > new prompts are wrong!! > That's really strange! Specially since you are running Redhat Linux, upon which Linux-Mandrake is based. I thought that all the standard English-language PC keyboards would use the Shift-F* prompts. Possibly a different keyboard-map file? > Fortunately, the way I am doing this is via defines for the prompts > in fractint.h, so I just need to investigate where the keystroke > choice is selected, and then make the right set of defines to be > active in fractint.h. > I saw where the keystroke choice is selected while I was making the mods, but now I don't remember which source file I saw it in. (Possibly fractint.c) > So much to do, so little time :-) > I know that feeling! Scott - -- email: sdboyd@fastlane.net http://www.fastlane.net/~sdboyd/ Introducing Windows 2000 !! -- Reduced to only 65,000 bugs !! - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 23:09:38 -0600 From: Tim Wegner Subject: Re: Concatenated strings Scott wrote: > That's really strange! Specially since you are running Redhat Linux, upon which > Linux-Mandrake is based. I thought that all the standard English-language PC > keyboards would use the Shift-F* prompts. Possibly a different keyboard-map > file? I just did a vanilla Mandrake install, so I'm not sure. The shift-1 etc. keys still work, but so do the function keys, the cursor keys, and the pageup etc. keys. However the "arrow" characters aren't the same, so the character set is different from the DOS character set, so some of the fractint.h defines still need to be different from Linux. I suggest you grab my patch 10 sources and look at the defines I created in fractint.h (FK_F1 etc.). We will need to set up a system to use the correct defines. BTW I saw a bug - when one cursor's around the fractal type list, sometimes the type name is written too far to the right, I need to look into this. Tim - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List Post Message: fractdev@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractdev" ------------------------------ End of fractdev-digest V1 #30 *****************************