From: fractint-owner@xmission.com (fractint Digest) To: fractint-digest@xmission.com Subject: fractint Digest V1 #37 Reply-To: fractint@xmission.com Sender: fractint-owner@xmission.com Errors-To: fractint-owner@xmission.com Precedence: fractint Digest Wednesday, October 22 1997 Volume 01 : Number 037 In this issue: Re: (fractint) DOS vs. Windows (vs. X-Windows?), revisited Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest proposal Re: (fractint) if you are removed from the list Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest propo (fractint) New at fractint Re: (fractint) if you are removed from the list Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest propo Re: (fractint) New at fractint Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest proposal Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest (fractint) mandelbrot to julia (fractint) file format comparison Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest (fractint) Fractint v19.6 Windows 95 (fractint) Fractal Books (fractint) How does boundary scanning work? (fractint) sci.fractals FAQ Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest Re: (fractint) New at fractint Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest prop Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest propo Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest Re: (fractint) mandelbrot to julia Re: (fractint) Fractint v19.6 Windows 95 (fractint) slit island technique See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the fractint or fractint-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:38:39 -0500 From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: Re: (fractint) DOS vs. Windows (vs. X-Windows?), revisited Is this going to be 32 bit as in Win '95? "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:36:55 -0500 From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest proposal If I understand what you are saying. My thoughts are "NOOOOO"! On second thought: O.K. If it trims the sails so Fractint can chart new waters (real visual hunh?) It would probably be a good idea. However, You should remember that a lot of fractint users are not serious programmers, like me, and they like the ability to push a few quick buttons and get results. This is what helped inspire me to learn more about fractint so I could write my own. I think it could be quite frustrating to try and understand fractals and write them at the same time. Even discouraging. Perhaps putting a little more resources into Fractint 20's demo and tutorials (note plural). I know that some of you are realllly deep into this stuff, but us shallow divers want to enjoy the pool too! "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke >Now another modest proposal. While we are cutting and slashing code, >what would you think about cutting out all built-in fractal types >that can be implemented with a formula in the formula parser? We >could include a special formula file with all the removed built-in >types. > >Thoughts? > >Tim > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 01:03:06 -0400 (EDT) From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) if you are removed from the list Well yours works better than the djgpp mailing list. A bad address on it, and the listserv sends bounce messages to every subscriber. Your listserv software is evidently smarter: it recognizes a bounce message and sends it to you instead... - -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 01:07:51 -0400 (EDT) From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest propo Does the parser compile the formula directly to native machine instructions and point a function pointer at it?? Otherwise, what does it do, byte codes? How *do* you compile to machien instructions and then asim a pointer at it, is it as simple as this? char fbuf[MAX]; int (*do_point)(double x, double y); char *ip=fbuf; ... (int)fbuf[ip]=some_int; ip++; ip++; ... (long)fbuf[ip]=some_long; ip+=4; ... do_point=(int (*)(double, double))fbuf; return do_point; - -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:44:18 -0700 From: orion23@ix.netcom.com Subject: (fractint) New at fractint Tim wrote: >Thanks. The list seems to me to be going well. I'd encourage shy beginners to ask questions. List members have been good about answering questions. I've intentionally invited more technical topics to complement the fractal-art list, so much list traffic is too technical for some people's taste. But do remember that less technical discussion and beginner questions are also welcome. Yes all of this technical stuff makes my head hurt. But I guess somebody needs to know. Myself I'm grateful that there are people out there that have the knowledge to create such nice fractals, My wife and I enjoy viewing them. Just recently did I figureout how to save the frm. &par. files to look at in fractint. anyway now for the stupid question (then again maybe not)can the formula be like some famous eqaution or molecular structer or something along that line.Its late so the spelling is bad and not sure if I'm getting my point across. thanks Gary - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 01:03:06 -0400 (EDT) From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) if you are removed from the list Well yours works better than the djgpp mailing list. A bad address on it, and the listserv sends bounce messages to every subscriber. Your listserv software is evidently smarter: it recognizes a bounce message and sends it to you instead... - -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 01:07:51 -0400 (EDT) From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest propo Does the parser compile the formula directly to native machine instructions and point a function pointer at it?? Otherwise, what does it do, byte codes? How *do* you compile to machien instructions and then asim a pointer at it, is it as simple as this? char fbuf[MAX]; int (*do_point)(double x, double y); char *ip=fbuf; ... (int)fbuf[ip]=some_int; ip++; ip++; ... (long)fbuf[ip]=some_long; ip+=4; ... do_point=(int (*)(double, double))fbuf; return do_point; - -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:32:53 -0500 From: leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) Subject: Re: (fractint) New at fractint Oh yeah. Last week I posted a fractal called Sunglasses which I used the "form" of the quadratic equation (x=ax^2 + bx + c). Only it looked sort of like this. Sunglasses (xaxis) { ; Merle L. Newsted Jr. z = 0, a = pixel, b = pixel + 1, c = pixel * 2: z = a*z*z + b*z + c } Do you see it? Well, it's certainly no breakthrough, but it looks cool, and if you zoom into it you may find some nice images. Sorry I didn't include a par file. But I'm at work without Fractint :( later, Nuke (Merle L. Newsted Jr.) On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:44:18 -0700 orion23@ix.netcom.com writes: >Tim wrote: Just recently did I figureout how to save the frm. &par. >files to look at in fractint. anyway now for the stupid question (then >again maybe not)can the formula be like some famous eqaution or >molecular structer or something along that line.Its late so the >spelling >is bad and not sure if I'm getting my point across. > thanks Gary > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:24:30 -0700 From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest proposal Will Fractint abandon gif format? What is the relationship of Fractint and its users given the statements at this site? http://www.unisys.com/LeadStory/lzwfaq.html Jay - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 00:18:01 -0400 (EDT) From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest >Will Fractint abandon gif format? Format: Pros: Cons: GIF * Inline webbable. * Patented, although they let the SSG off the * Backlward compat. hook. * Good compression * 256 color limit. JPG * Inline webbable. * Lossy compression. * Any bit-depth. TGA * Any bit-depth. * Lousy compression (TGAs are HUUUGE!) * Not inline webbable. PNG * Good compression. * Not (yet) inline webbable. * Free compression. * Any bit-depth. BMP * Any bit-depth. * Not widely supported non-Microsoft OSes. * Lousy compression. * Not inline-webbable. PCX * Any bit-depth. * Not widely supported non-Microsoft OSes. * Good compression * Not inline webbable. POT * Any bit-depth. * Hardly supported anywhere. * Backward compat. * Not inline-webbable. * Good compression. PICT * Any bit-depth. * Not widely supported non-Mac OSes. * Mediocre compression. * Not inline-webbable. - -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 00:23:58 -0500 From: "Jon Camp" Subject: (fractint) mandelbrot to julia Is it now or will it be possible in future versions, to pass abitrary precision paramaters from the mandelbrot set to the julia set with the spacebar or some similaraly simple method? In Him, Jon Camp Valparasio University <>< - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:25:13 -0600 From: Rich Thomson Subject: (fractint) file format comparison This isn't a bad summary, but not that "any bit depth" refers to being able to support 24-bits/pixel as opposed to only 8-bits/pixel. That's not quite the same thing as "any bit depth" because you can't have arbitrarily deep pixels in these formats. Also, "lossy compression" was listed as a con for JPG. With 24-bit fractals, GIF also has "lossy compression", so its all relative. Others might consider the high compression ratio of JPEG to be a Pro, which wasn't listed in that table. PNG should be supported by the netscrape/exploder now that they've both had a major release, although the details on the PNG web site are a little sketchy. () POT files are really GIF files, so while they aren't intrinsically understood to be 16-bits/pixel hacks except by fractint, they can still be manipulated by external utilities. In article <199710210418.AAA20881@freenet3.carleton.ca.carleton.ca> , ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) writes: > >Will Fractint abandon gif format? > > > Format: Pros: Cons: > GIF * Inline webbable. * Patented, although they let the SSG off th e > * Backlward compat. hook. > * Good compression * 256 color limit. > JPG * Inline webbable. * Lossy compression. > * Any bit-depth. > TGA * Any bit-depth. * Lousy compression (TGAs are HUUUGE!) > * Not inline webbable. > PNG * Good compression. * Not (yet) inline webbable. > * Free compression. > * Any bit-depth. > BMP * Any bit-depth. * Not widely supported non-Microsoft OSes. > * Lousy compression. > * Not inline-webbable. > PCX * Any bit-depth. * Not widely supported non-Microsoft OSes. > * Good compression * Not inline webbable. > POT * Any bit-depth. * Hardly supported anywhere. > * Backward compat. * Not inline-webbable. > * Good compression. > PICT * Any bit-depth. * Not widely supported non-Mac OSes. > * Mediocre compression. > * Not inline-webbable. - -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:36:43 -0500 From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest Paul Derbyshire wrote: > Format: Pros: Cons: > GIF * Inline webbable. * Patented, although they let the SSG off the > * Backlward compat. hook. > * Good compression * 256 color limit. > JPG * Inline webbable. * Lossy compression. > * Any bit-depth. > TGA * Any bit-depth. * Lousy compression (TGAs are HUUUGE!) > * Not inline webbable. > PNG * Good compression. * Not (yet) inline webbable. > * Free compression. > * Any bit-depth. > BMP * Any bit-depth. * Not widely supported non-Microsoft OSes. > * Lousy compression. > * Not inline-webbable. > PCX * Any bit-depth. * Not widely supported non-Microsoft OSes. > * Good compression * Not inline webbable. > POT * Any bit-depth. * Hardly supported anywhere. > * Backward compat. * Not inline-webbable. > * Good compression. > PICT * Any bit-depth. * Not widely supported non-Mac OSes. > * Mediocre compression. > * Not inline-webbable. Seems to me that if Fractint wants to support saving pictures rendered in true-color mode, that it'll have to dump GIF and find another format (assuming the chart is accurate in saying that GIF only supports 256 colors). It might be a good idea to dump GIF anyway, given the patent and all. A suggestion: TGA format, since Fractint already supports it! Speaking of which, I've had some strange results with 3-D TGA renderings. I've made a TGA file that Windows says is 0 bytes, but looks perfect when loaded into MGI Photosuite, my all-purpose picture viewer. I've had some other huge TGA files that are just all the same shade of gray except for the sky. I finally figured out that TGA only works if you choose light-sourcing in the 3-D rendering options. But I can't figure out how a zero-byte file can reproduce all that detail! :) My guess is that my Win-doze is smashed somewhere. Oh well. Bad(?) Linux slogans: - -- Linux: The OS for truly independent spirits! -- - -- Linux: The OS of champions! -- - -- Linux: Marquette's Web server (www.mu.edu) uses it, shouldn't you? -- - -- Linux: Because it's free -- - -- Linux: Because you can -- - -- Install Linux: Tell Microsoft where to stick it! -- Justin Kolodziej is 4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu ps: Janet Reno is now officially kewl, you know why. - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:46:51 -0600 From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest In article <344CE82B.F7F8414E@vms.csd.mu.edu> , "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vmsb.csd.mu.edu> writes: [you might want to start using lines of shorter length so that your messages are more easily quoted by others] > Seems to me that if Fractint wants to support saving pictures rendered in > true-color mode, that it'll have to dump GIF and find another format (assumin g the > chart is accurate in saying that GIF only supports 256 colors). It might be a > good idea to dump GIF anyway, given the patent and all. A suggestion: TGA fo rmat, > since Fractint already supports it! Tim has already said he will be adding PNG support for 24-bit save/loading of images. PNG is superior to TGA in that it has nice compression. - -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:39:48 +0200 From: "R. J. Jonker" Subject: (fractint) Fractint v19.6 Windows 95 Whenever I try to run Fractint under windows 95(B), (in a maxized window of course) and use a Vesa screen mode (e.g. 800X600; 256 colors) it seems to complete the image and then braeks off. The ever lovely(?) windows tells me: This program cannot be restarted (excuses for the probably akward translation of a Dutch message) In other words under windows i can use fractin only withe the normal VGA standards. When i make a special DOS-session, I hav no problems. My question: Is this normal behavior of fractint or should I somewhere in Windows change some setting? Hoping for an answer Roelof Jonker - --- The right of free speech implicates the duty to think - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:44:08 -0400 From: nick.grasso@hrads.com (Grasso, Nick) Subject: (fractint) Fractal Books At 10:30 PM 10/9/97 -0700, Peter Jakubowicz wrote: >Also, I am considering plunking down $50 at my local bookstore for a >copy of The Science of Fractal Images, which I think I have seen >referred to here a few times. Is this a good book? I am trying to learn >more, more, more of the technical stuff and am looking for lots of math >formulas to play with. Perhaps something has been written since that is >better? Any help wld be appreciated. Peter: Sorry I didn't reply earlier. There is a book called Chaos and Fractals: New Frontiers of Science by Peitgen, Jurgens, and Saupe that you may want to check out. It is fairly recent (1994) and I think two of its authors are also the authors of Science of Fractal Images. It is a huge tome - almost 1000 pages, and looks like it is full of useful information. The authors state that it is not written in the 'popular style' but also not written specifically for mathematicians. It seems to contain numerous formulas, however. Perhaps one day I'll have time to read it. Nick nick.grasso@hrads.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:05:27 -0400 (EDT) From: SWarsMatt@aol.com Subject: (fractint) How does boundary scanning work? Hi, I'm new to this list. Sorry to bother you with this question, but how does the boundary scanning method work? I would appreciate a clear explanation and some simple source code for drawing the M-set by this method. Thanks, Matthew Reece - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:46:40 -0300 (ADT) From: mctaylor Subject: (fractint) sci.fractals FAQ The October 21, 1997 edition of the sci.fractals FAQ is now available. news:sci.fractals http://www.mta.ca/~mctaylor/sci.fractals-faq/ http://fractal.mta.ca/sci.fractals-faq/ http://graffiti.u-bordeaux.fr/MAPBX/louvet/sci.fractals-faq/faq.html and other fine mirrors on a server near you. - -- Michael C. Taylor Programmer, Computing Services, Mount Allison University, Canada sci.fractals FAQ fractal and cryptography archive - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:27:38 -0600 From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest > > PNG * Good compression. * Not (yet) inline webbable. > > * Free compression. > > * Any bit-depth. The new Internet Explorer supports PNG. However I hear from the PNG team that Microsoft didn't do that good a job the first time around, so we're not home free. I'll celebrate when both IE and Netscape have *good* inline webbable implementations of PNG. > Seems to me that if Fractint wants to support saving pictures rendered in > true-color mode, that it'll have to dump GIF and find another format (assuming the > chart is accurate in saying that GIF only supports 256 colors). It might be a > good idea to dump GIF anyway, given the patent and all. A suggestion: TGA format, > since Fractint already supports it! We're committed to PNG. It can replace GIF as well as support truecolor. Tim - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:27:38 -0600 From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) New at fractint Gary asked: > anyway now for the stupid question (then > again maybe not)can the formula be like some famous eqaution or > molecular structer or something along that line. The truth is that you don't need any mathematical knowledge to fool with formulas, just enough knowledge of the formula language to write formulas that are syntacically correct. The best way to do this is modify existing formulas. When I give demonstrations to high school math classes, I have fun writing bizarre formulas bristling with important-sounding transcendental functions like sinh(z) or exp(z). You can just about always get an interesting fractal in this way. I don't know about molecular structure, but you can certainly model fractint formulas after famous equations. I'm not sure the results are any better than just typing in some hocus pocus though Here's one I just wrote down with zero mathematical insight. I challenge the list to come up with some nice PARs using this. Tim's_fract { ; Example of a more or less random formula z = Pixel: ; I have no clue what the point of this formula is ; it came straight from my subconcious z = (sinh(z*z + log(z)))/(z*z + 2) |z| <= 16 } Let me also say that while non-mathematical artists can show brilliant creativity with formulas, understanding math can add another dimension to fractal art. Sylvie Gallet, for one, is a master at applying her knowledge of mathematics to the art of building formulas that create fascinating fractals. Tim - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:27:38 -0600 From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest prop Jay asked: > Will Fractint abandon gif format? IMHO, yes. We'll leave the ability to read GIF files for the first few versions after we add PNG support as a user convenience. > What is the relationship of Fractint and its users given the statements at > this site? Realize that Stone Soup is much more than one programmer, so this isn't necessarily the Stone Soup view (if there is such a thing), but here's my two cents worth. I was a member of the PNG specification development team from the beginning and am listed as a co-author of the PNG spec. I support PNG, was instrumental in adding PNG to POV-Ray, and am committing to adding PNG to fractint. The main reason that Fractint doesn't support PNG yet is that Fractint's already-overburdened DOS medium model development platform can't handle encoding PNG images (it can handle decoding them) due to memory limitations. I've figured out a kludgy but workable way around this. I have already added PNG writing to my personal experimental Xfract version. I worked hard to add Libpng and Zlib support for the medium model. This makes adding PNG to fractint at least a possibility, but the memory requirements for Fractint are just too hard. PNG is easy to add to any program that has a 32 bit memory model. I was actually a Unisys employee at Johnson Space Center for six months. However the Shuttle contractor dumped Unisys and we all changed badges a year ago. I have worked for the United Space Alliance since "the coup". Strangely, nobody I met at JSC's Unisys branch knew anything about the lzw patent or Unisys's Welch patent office. Tim - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:27:38 -0600 From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest propo Paul asked: > Does the parser compile the formula directly to native machine > instructions and point a function pointer at it?? What the parser actually does is go through an array of function pointers, invoking the functions each in turn, and maintains a stack of arguments for the functions to use. This is not a true compiler. However, fractint's source code contains logic that makes it operate differently if COMPILER is defined in parserfp.c. In this case, the code for the array of functions is copied to a buffer in memory, and execution branches to that address when the formula is run. This is literally a built-in compiler. You might also call it self-modifying code . At various times I have gotten this to work, but have judged it too risky to put in the release fractint version. You are welcome to play with it if you have a suitable compiler environment. I can't promise that it still works; I haven't tried it for a long time. Chuck Ebbert doesn't have easy access to a DOS compiler environment so he hasn't worked on the code for a long time. George Martin and I maintain it, and neither of us knows enough to seriously play with the COMPILER option. George added the if-else feature to the parser C code, and I ported it to assembler. Tim - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:27:38 -0600 From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer math is history, and another modest Rich said: > Tim has already said he will be adding PNG support for 24-bit > save/loading of images. PNG is superior to TGA in that it has > nice compression. Absolutely. PNG can also replace GIF for 256-color images. It supports up to 64 bit truecolor as well. The projects I am working on at the moment are: PNG Truecolor Synchronous orbits using arbitrary precision removing integer math These are all ambitious projects. There will be no more incremental versions of 19.x. The next release will be a major new version. Of course we are free to change are plans at any time Tim - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:27:38 -0600 From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) mandelbrot to julia Jon asked: > Is it now or will it be possible in future versions, to pass abitrary > precision paramaters from the mandelbrot set to the julia set with the > spacebar or some similaraly simple method? It's not possible now, but it certainly could be in the future. Only a few fractal types and options at present work with arbitrary precision. So far, no one has requested any extension of the capabilities. My theory is that interest in arbitrary precision is more theoretical than artistic. Plus it is time consuming. The space of possible arbitrary precision fractals is so great that it satisfies those brave enough to explore, at least for now. It's too slow for the artists to use it much. I am hopeful that adding the synchronous orbits algorith will make deep zoom exploration more feasible. After Fractint is ported to 32 bit environments, we can consider extending how much of fractint's feature set work with arbitrary precision. I'd like to see the formula parser extended to both arbitrary precision and 4D algebras, with some 3D rendering mehanisms that are better than the current depth modulation used with julibrot. Tim - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:41:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Ian Kaplan Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint v19.6 Windows 95 > Whenever I try to run Fractint under windows 95(B), (in a maxized window of > course) and use a Vesa screen mode (e.g. 800X600; 256 colors) it seems to > complete the image and then braeks off. The ever lovely(?) windows tells > me: This program cannot be restarted (excuses for the probably akward > translation of a Dutch message) In other words under windows i can use > fractin only withe the normal VGA standards. > When i make a special DOS-session, I hav no problems. Sender: owner-fractint@xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: fractint What video hardware are you using, with what settings? If your video card is configured right and using the latest win95 drivers, it's quite possible you've discovered a win95 incompatibility, and there's not much to be done for it. If you tell us what the hardware is, I'm sure someone will pop up and tell you they have it working, or that they have the same problem. - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:43:13 GMT From: "GREIG SOMMERVILLE" <943210u@mechfs3.rgu.ac.uk> Subject: (fractint) slit island technique Hello I am a final year student at The Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen, Scotland. As part of my final year I am required to submit a project. The title of my project is The Fracture Analysis of Stainless Steel Using Fractal Analysis. The project involves using Charpy impact tests to fracture samples of super duplex st. steel at different temperatures, in the hope of finding a relationship between the steels fracture toughness and the fractal dimension. The mathematical analysis used to find the fractal dimension is the slit island technique. So far, I have had great difficulty trying to find any information on this subject except from "Fractal Character of Surfaces of Metals" Mandlebrot,Benoit and "Fractal Analysis of Fracture Surfaces" Underwood, Ervin Therefore any possible help on the subject would be greatly recieved. For example, possible books relating to the "slit island technique" or any journal articles relating to the subject. Yours Sincerely Greig Sommerville - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ End of fractint Digest V1 #37 ***************************** To subscribe to fractint Digest, send the command: subscribe fractint-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@xmission.com". 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