From: owner-fractint-digest@lists.xmission.com (fractint-digest) To: fractint-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: fractint-digest V1 #205 Reply-To: fractint-digest Sender: owner-fractint-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-fractint-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk fractint-digest Saturday, May 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 205 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 May 98 18:16:41 +0100 From: Oliver Klimek Subject: Re: (fractint) Another newbie Paul Carlson replied to me: >>You might call me an >>inside=0/outside=iter/decomp=0 purist. This does not mean that I don't >>like all these pictures with nifty coloring effects. I love to look at >>them, but somehow I think I should do something different. It is true that >>with some "special effects" you can make an otherwise boring image look >>interesting. But I prefer to go for those that are interesting whitout >having to polish them. > I'm sure you don't mean that those formulas which use orbit traps > or bailout criteria more complex than a circle are less mathematically > pure or that the resulting image is less of a fractal than the escape > time level set algorithm. One reason I like to experiment with orbit > traps is that the resulting image contains considerably more information > about the dynamics of the iteration than the escape time algorithm. But > I would have to agree that, without studying the formulas involved, it > would appear that orbit trap formulas are just a form of special effects. I dont't mean bailout criteria and orbit traps in general. You have to find some way to end the iteration, be it |z|>4 or something like sin(z) Subject: Re: (fractint) Heavens Gate par Angela, >> On what basis should one experiment with maxiter? I'm unfamiliar >> with how that affects an image. That was obvious: just look at the blue hole at the center of the spira= l in the original image. Cheers, - Sylvie - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:11:42 -0400 From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: Re: (fractint) gallet-6-08 formula Hi Bill, >> Yes, I did send out one of the pars with a reference to a local map. >> I've repaired my fault below Thanks. >> but it brings up a question that has popped into my mind every now >> and then but has never embarrassed me up to this point: How do you >> *force* Fractint to put the color map into the par explicitly? Add recordcolors=3Dyes or recordcolors=3Dcomment to your sstools.ini (s= ee Fractint.doc page 113). Cheers, - Sylvie - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:11:39 -0400 From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: (fractint) Double Pentagram Spiral >> I just couldn't help myself and had to recolor it too... Me too... sg_pentagram { ; "Double Pentagram" (c) Joe Pearson May 06, 1998 ; Copyright Sylvie Gallet, May 15, 1998 ; ; recolored using deep11.map reset=3D1960 type=3Djulia passes=3D1 center-mag=3D+0.00000000000000000/+0.00000000000000000/1523.981/1/65 params=3D-0.7612078329687501/0.08479657003125 float=3Dy maxiter=3D2000 logmap=3D518 colors=3D0A0<13>5eW<31>121000001<21>3KZ4L`5Na<7>CakDcmDdm<6>JkmKmmKlk<1= 3>6\ LG5JD6LE<14>JdMKfNLhM<12>wt1<12>DVF<9>BI9BH8BH8<4>9D6<2>MG7QH8UI9YJAaLB= e\ MCgODjQF<13>xnGypGzrF<6>xvqwwwuvw<14>FZh<11>A0A<9>uU0<13>zzcvycqwb } - Sylvie - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 19:37:28 +0200 From: Joe Pearson Subject: RE: (fractint) question about time >I added that line to my sstools.ini too. One further question...I assume >this >comment is made on the first line and that additional comments should be >entered >into the 2nd and 3rd lines of the par....is this correct? > >Angela > >> comment=______________(c)_Joe_Pearson_$date$_t=$calctime$/time_on_486-75 >> _640x480 The / divides lines - so the above puts "time on 486-75 640x480" on the second line. You can leave comments blank with multiple //, so you can type there. I think my setting is a bit long as the calctime always seems to wrap in emails - it *just* fits on the 'b' screen. But I want a description, my name, a date and the calc time on the first line!! Joe - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 19:41:38 +0200 From: Joe Pearson Subject: RE: (fractint) All computers are not created equal >Welp...just goes to show you. I have the same settings, and windows has a >nervous breakdown when I alt-tab from fractint. Even in disk-video? No graphic displayed? It could be any one of 150 Microsoft things. I'm going where no email can reach me for a week and no time now to think about it. There may be some other posts I haven't responded to. See you later! Joe > - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:41:12 -0400 From: Jack Valero Subject: RE: (fractint) Winfract and Partobat? At 09:19 AM 15/05/98 +0200, you wrote: >>I just downloaded Winfract, and while it clearly isn't as great as Fractint >>dos(I would adore color cycling, but I take what I can get), Winfract does allow colour cycling. However, it will not work if your windows video setting is set for more than 256 colours. Regards - Jack visit our fractal gallery: http://www.globalserve.net/~jval/phractal.html - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:50:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) Fractal-Art list threatened with extinction! I see that after June 15, 1998 Jon Noring will no longer be able to administer the Fractal-Art mailing list, and if no one volunteers to take over the task, the list will cease to exist after only one year of life. My prediction is that no one will step forward to assume the task and the list will die. Jon says that other things in his life will make it impossible for him to continue as list administrator, but I wonder if it is not just disappointment and futility that is causing him to throw in the towel. Day after day goes by when my FOTD and Jay's FOTN are the only posts. The Fractal-Art list started out quite active, however it was apparent from the start that the subscribers really wanted to talk about Fractint. When Tim started the Fractint list, the Fractal-Art subscribers migrated to the Fractint list and the Fractal_Art list basically dropped dead. I would take over the task of running the F.A. list if I had the time, which I do not. But if I assumed the position of administrator, I would re-write the charter and rename the list something like "Fractal Trek". The purpose of the new list would be to create a place where intrepid fractal explorers could join together into a group much like the crew of the good ship Enterprise, and share adventures. My enjoyment of fractals lies in the adventure, and in the excitement of discovering scenes that no one has seen before. I revel in the simple fun of going and seeing what lies beyond the next blow-up. If the Fractal-Art list dies, it will have served its purpose of showing that fractals are indeed art. When the list is gone, I will simply shift the FOTD to the Fractint list, and I assume Jay will do the same with his FOTN. And I don't know of anything in the Fractint list charter that prevents the art aspect of fractals from being discussed. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:45:43 -0500 From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: (fractint) Re: Fractal-Art list threatened with extinction Jim, - My prediction is that no one will step forward to assume - the task and the list will die. That would be a sad thing, indeed. Are you a pessimist, Jim? :-) - The Fractal-Art list started out quite active, however it - was apparent from the start that the subscribers really - wanted to talk about Fractint. I think that's because the FractInt userbase had long ago expanded beyond the CompuServe forum where it started; there were plenty of people looking for a public place where they could talk about FractInt. A mailing list is just about the most easily accessible discussion forum on the net. So when Fractal-Art appeared, obviously people talked about the most commonly-used fractal program. I think it's a good thing that Tim Wegner started the FractInt list; it helps direct application-specific material to a more suitable forum and keeps Fractal-Art focused more on other matters related to, well, fractal art. :) - When the list is gone, I will simply shift the FOTD to the Fractint - list, and I assume Jay will do the same with his FOTN. Sounds like you've already written the Fractal-Art list off... - And I don't know of anything in the Fractint list charter that - prevents the art aspect of fractals from being discussed. Nothing preventing it, but given the current volume on the FractInt list, and that most of it is PAR-swapping, I'd say discussions about the art side of fractals would be drowned out. I'm not saying I don't like what's on the FractInt list (if that were so, I wouldn't subscribe) but I think there are valid reasons to maintain two lists--especially since the art aspect applies no matter what software one uses, and I doubt explorers who primarily use software besides FractInt will subscribe to a list where the traffic is 95% FractInt-specific. Damien M. Jones \\ dmj@fractalus.com \\ http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs) \\ http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby) - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:54:30 EDT From: SKarl52884 Subject: (fractint)Modification of Morgans Worshipful Here's a slight modification of a par by Morgan. { Hope you don't mind....couldn't resist} Also ...appologies to Earth,Wind, and Fire. This is pretty close to that album jacket I think. Steve ~~^~~^~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~ Worshipful-sk { ; Manship. I am,we are.(mod. by SK 5/22/98) ; Original Image and inspiration by: Morgan L. Owens reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=frac_ml.frm formulaname=ca03 function=abs passes=b center-mag=0.0420974/-0.0420974/0.8313408/1/-44.999 params=1/-0.1/1/0 float=y maxiter=1023 inside=255 outside=atan colors=000430<4>000000100<76>yV0zW0zW0zX0<29>zz0<15>zzz<15>zz0<30>zX0zW0\ zW0yW0<70>530 } - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:51:21 -0700 From: "Angela Wilczynski" Subject: (fractint) Fractal Chat Paul Derbyshire has requested that we chat at 5PM PDT or 8PM EDT Saturday evening (5/16/98). If that's OK with most, let's go with that. The usual suspects will assemble on the Undernet in #fractals. See you there!!! If you need help getting started with chatting, email me at wizzle@beachnet.com - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 21:25:05 -0500 From: Bob Margolis Subject: Re: (fractint) question about time Paul Carlson typed: > > Somebody recently suggested that I include the computation time in > the pars I send to the list. This seems like a good idea but, being > relatively new to Fractint, I don't how to do this. > > Also, will it work if the image is saved unfinished and reloaded? > The computation time is always available during or after creation of a Fractint fractal image by tapping the *tab* key. Bob "Cyberfractals" Margolis - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 19:54:43 -0700 From: "Angela Wilczynski" Subject: Re: (fractint) All computers are not created equal Try alt+enter.....that works for me except that color cycling goes mad when I return to fractint with alt+enter again. Otherwise....all is well RJ Corradino wrote: > > Welp...just goes to show you. I have the same settings, and windows has a > nervous breakdown when I alt-tab from fractint. > - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 23:12:18 -0400 (EDT) From: aq936@freenet.carleton.ca (Michael Traynor) Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractals and Poetry >FRM:poem { ; created using FracText 1.0 à6 - by Jan Maarten van der Valk Les, What is FracText, and (where) can one get it? I believe it is the same thing that was used to make the Happy New Year par that was posted a while ago. - -- Mike Traynor People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like. Abraham Lincoln - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 00:35:41 -0400 From: "Paul Derbyshire" Subject: Re: (fractint) par restore menu wish list item Emacs... an operating system shell disguised as an editor. Someone's probably written an elisp hack for a key-popup fake pseudo-spreadsheet for when you see the boss coming down the aisle headed for your cubicle... and it got buried in the "compact" install... no wonder they call it "eight megabytes and constantly swapping" :-) - -- .*. "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not - -() < circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a `*' straight line." ------------------------------------------------- -- B. Mandelbrot |http://www3.sympatico.ca/bob.beland/indexn2f.html _____________________ ____|________ Paul Derbyshire pderbysh@usa.net Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848| - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 02:27:38 +0000 From: "Dave Irwin" Subject: (fractint) Fractint Deep-Zooming and Planck's Length Hi Fractint zealots I am developing some theories in the world of the very small and have come across a definition called Planck's length which appears to suggest that there is a limit to a measure of 10 to the minus 33. As this measure is way bigger than that which can be developed in Deep Zooming - 19.5 documentation, page 144 quotes 10 to the 1600 - can you tell me if there is any discussion or reference on the web that rationalises this discrepancy. The essence of the theories I am developing are to suggest that time is the THIRD dimension!!! Replies to the list or to me individually will be appreciated. Dave in Toronto Dave Irwin Toronto Ontario Canada irwin@netcom.ca http://www.netcom.ca/~irwin Time is the THIRD Dimension - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 01:28:46 -0500 (CDT) From: pjcarlsn@ix.netcom.com (Paul and/or Joyce Carlson) Subject: (fractint) Barnsley Petals Formula comment { I liked Oliver Klimek's SpiralOfDoomstiny so I decided to try my petals rendering method on it. Using the petals method with Oliver's par produced a rather unspectacular spiral, but did reveal that the spiral is a double spiral with one arm of the spiral trapping odd iterations, the other arm trapping even iterations. Anyhow, since I spent the time combining the Barnsley equations with the petals rendering, I thought I might as well use it and so here's a couple of pars that do produce some fairly decent images. The pars do not have computation times in the comments because I already had the coordinates and parameters so I only ran these at very low resolution with solid guessing just to make sure they worked. The images are better than you might expect, given the discontinuities produced by the Barnsley equations. The discontinuities do appear in the images, but notice how the major blossums are unaffected in the first par. Paul Carlson } frm:Petals_Barnsley1 {; Copyright (c) Paul W. Carlson, 1998 ; p1 = coordinates of the Julia set ; real(p2) = radius of the circles - this controls ; the size of the petals ; imag(p2) not Used ; real(p3) = number of color ranges ; imag(p3) = number of colors in each color range ; w = pixel c = p1 z = range_num = iter = 0 r = real(p2) ir = flip(r) r2 = r * r num_ranges = real(p3) colors_in_range = imag(p3) index_factor = colors_in_range / (r2 + r2) : IF (real(w) >= 0) w = (w - 1) * c ELSE w = (w + 1) * c ENDIF ; c1 = (|w - r| < r2) c2 = (|w + ir| < r2) c3 = (|w + r| < r2) c4 = (|w - ir| < r2) IF (c1 && c4) d = |w - r - ir| ELSEIF (c1 && c2) d = |w - r + ir| ELSEIF (c2 && c3) d = |w + r + ir| ELSEIF (c3 && c4) d = |w + r - ir| ELSE d = 0 ENDIF IF (d > 0) z = index_factor * d + range_num * colors_in_range + 1 ENDIF range_num = range_num + 1 IF (range_num == num_ranges) range_num = 0 ENDIF iter = iter + 1 z = z - iter d == 0 && |w| < 1.0e20 } brn1ptl1 { ; Copyright (c) Paul W. Carlson, 1998 reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=ptlbarn1.frm formulaname=Petals_Barnsley1 passes=t corners=-0.765795213/-1.1017582/1.03934735/0.830473629/-0.786\ 482501/1.0669304 params=1/1/0.8/0/8/30 float=y maxiter=242 inside=253 outside=summ colors=0000C4<15>0zR<12>0C40CC<15>0zz<12>0CC00O<14>FFwGGzFFw<\ 11>00OSA`<14>eNxfOzeNw<10>K2OO08<15>z0f<12>R0BO08O00<15>z88<1\ 1>R11c40<14>vS0xU0wT0<12>c40aG0<14>xw0zz0yw0<11>aG0000<13>000 } brn1ptl2 { ; Copyright (c) Paul W. Carlson, 1998 reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=ptlbarn1.frm formulaname=petals_barnsley1 passes=t corners=-2/2/-1.5/1.5 params=0.7/0.7/0.3/0/2/125 float=y maxiter=242 inside=253 outside=summ colors=000C02<58>pEYqEYrFZsF_rFZqEY<59>C02HKS<60>MnuMovMnu<60\ >HKS000000DGO000000 } - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 23:40:46 -0700 (MST) From: Kerry Mitchell Subject: (fractint) Re: Conic Sections coloring methods Did anyone actually see and/or read that 20K tome I posted a few days ago? Just curious. Kerry Mitchell - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 06:38:26 -0400 From: davides Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Conic Sections coloring methods At 11:40 PM 5/15/1998 -0700, you wrote: >Did anyone actually see and/or read that 20K tome I posted a few days ago? >Just curious. > >Kerry Mitchell Yes, indeed. And forwarded it to myself at UMd to print out and look at while "w!@#$%^". I did notice at the lead of the frms a fingerfehler where E=P3R _and_ P3I, but since that is in commentary as opposed to operational it makes no difference. Probably no one else caught it since it affects nothing. As I have time, hopefully at some point this wekend, I may give a shot at writing a conic frm using your info. And thank you for posting it! Best Regards, davides@pipeline.com ds30@umail.umd.edu Back up my hard drive? How do I put it in reverse? - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 11:22:15 +0100 From: "Les St Clair" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractals and Poetry Hi Mike, >What is FracText, and (where) can one get it? I believe it is the same thing >that was used to make the Happy New Year par that was posted a while ago. Fractext was written by Jan Maarten van der Valk <100256.3721@compuserve.com> As far as I know it isn't available publicly as Jan was still developing the program. The version I have is 1-alpha-6 - which is fully functional and bug-free. I will gladly make the alpha version available through my web site (75K zip file) if it's OK with Jan. I haven't heard from Jan in a l-o-n-g while, but will try to contact him this weekend. Returning to your original question concerning overlaying poetry on an image - I think you will find Fractext of limited use in this department (unless your poems are very short!). The problem is that, for a long text message, the required formula will become too large for Fractint to handle. The nice aspect of Fractext is that it allows you to generate text overlay in an image that you can continue to manipulate (zoom, rotate, re-color etc.) in Fractint. I suspect, as others have already said, you will probably achieve the best results using a program like Paint Shop Pro. With this you can easily overlay text, as a floating object, using any font, with the option of adding effects such as drop shadow, cut-out etc. cheers, Les - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 09:40:55 -0400 From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) Fractint Deep Hi Dave, >> I am developing some theories in the world of the very small and have= come across a definition called Planck's length which appears to suggest that there is a limit to a measure of 10 to the minus 33. << In the physical world where the units are centimeters, yes. But what if the units you choose are are Hubble radii? >> The essence of the theories I am developing are to suggest that time i= s the THIRD dimension!!!<< Unless you are speaking as a Flatlander, I suppose you can order the dimensions anyway you choose. I would prefer to see time as the FIRST dimension, followed by the other 9, or 10 or 25 depending on which symmet= ry you believe the universe is based on. Hilbert Space can accomidate an infinite (countable) number of dimensions. Lee Skinner - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:43:54 -0600 From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint Deep-Zooming and Planck's Length Dave asked: 0000,0000,0000> Hi Fractint zealots > I am developing some theories in the world of the very small and > have come across a definition called Planck's length which appears to > suggest that there is a limit to a measure of 10 to the minus 33. As > this measure is way bigger than that which can be developed in Deep > Zooming - 19.5 documentation, page 144 quotes 10 to the 1600 - can > you tell me if there is any discussion or reference on the web that > rationalises this discrepancy. When you zoom into a fractal you aren't zooming into physical space, where Planck's length applies, but the mathematical space of complex numbers, which suffers from no such quantization. Complex numbers are not limited by Planck's length, and in fact are not limited at all. True, the ability of computers to deep zoom is limited, but only by the memory size needed to represent arbitrary precision numbers of sufficient precision and the time to render the image. But this limitation is not due to the characteristics of complex numbers. One can mathematically define deepzoomed fractal objects that would be impossible to render on a real computer, but still exist. There is no upper bound on magnifications possible with fractals based on complex numbers. Fractint's limit of 10^1600 is due to the restriction of placing all arbitrary precision variables in one 64K piece of memory. I'm sure with a small bit of effort, this limit could be extended -- on today's computers 64K is no big deal. The only reason we haven't done this is that slow rendering is the real practical limit for zoom depth. Anyone who implements arbitrary precision under a 32 bit environment like Win95 or Linux can easily achieve zoom depths vastly greater than 10^1600. We will remove this limit when Fractint is ported to Win95 (we could eliminate the limit now with Xfract if anyone cared.) Are you ready for 10^16000? Tim - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 11:16:57 -0400 From: Gedeon Peteri Subject: (fractint) web page My first effort at putting up a web page is now complete. I invite all of you to visit it at either of the following addresses: http://www.geocities.com/~gedeonp/index.html http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/4094/ It is a GeoPlus site, so you won't be bombarded with advertising banners. Your patience, however, will in all probability be taxed by the slow load of all 6 pages on the site. I apologize for that, but having kept extraneous material, including text, to a minimum, I wound up with pages loaded with fractals. There is a page dedicated to Paul Carlson with some of my images based on his formulas. The most useful feature of this page is a complete set of all Paul's formulas and pars posted to this list in 1997 & 1998, 72 and 270 respectively, available for download. If you are missing any of these, here is a place to get them. Another page contains Chebyshev fractals, including some based on a beta version of formulas now being developed by Morgan L. Owens. I am a rank beginner in formula writing, but I ventured to put up a page of images based on a set of simple formulas I wrote. The formulas and pars are available for download. Some time ago there was some talk on this list about deep zooms. I got temporarily inspired by that talk, and so I devoted a page to 8 midgets ranging from e+21 to e+305 magnification. Self similarity is very obvious. Every now and then I ran across a fractal that reminded me of this or that animal. I collected some of these on a page entitled Fractal Zoo. Your critical comments would be greatly appreciated. Gedeon - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:40:38 -0700 From: Mark Christenson Subject: Re: (fractint) Planck's Length At 02:27 AM 5/16/98 +0000, Dave Irwin wrote: > I am developing some theories in the world of the very small and >have come across a definition called Planck's length which appears to >suggest that there is a limit to a measure of 10 to the minus 33. As >this measure is way bigger than that which can be developed in Deep >Zooming - 19.5 documentation, page 144 quotes 10 to the 1600 - can >you tell me if there is any discussion or reference on the web that >rationalises this discrepancy. Fractals are mathematical abstractions with arbitrary scale, and are thus exempt from the strictures of quantum theory (but I suspect you knew this already). Bud - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 11:41:38 EDT From: SKarl52884 Subject: Re: (fractint) web page In a message dated 98-05-16 11:19:05 EDT, you write: << http://www.geocities.com/~gedeonp/index.html >> Gedeon... Nice site...tastefully done. It should be hooked into the infinite loop. Steve - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:01:28 -0600 From: Ray Montgomery Subject: (fractint) Re: Fractal-Art mailing list Good morning Read Jim Muth's and Damien Jones' messages about losing the Fractal-Art mailing list. I would be distressed to lose it, because it is obviously some-thing to do with Fractint and the more about Fractint the better. BUT, as usual, I'm lagging behind the crowd, not only a few feet, but more likely several miles. I had read something about other Fractal sources, by other groups, and had always presumed they, and the Fractal-Art list were not related to Fractint except by the common-denominator of fractals. And, further presumed that it was another list with words, words, words. Also, over a period of time, I had occasionally wondered what FOTD and FOTN meant, which I had read once in a while. I had already wasted enough time with some of my neophyte questions and couldn't bring myself to ask more. I finally figured out what they mean. Now, I MUST ask, exactly what is the Fractal-Art mailing list? What do you do with it? Do you write to it? Do you read it? Do you look at it? Must you download from it, or upload to it? Is it hard to get to? To negotiate once there? My machine operates so poorly now, with so many little unexpected idiosyncrasies that I hesitate to go where no man in this household with this machine has gone before. I might get trapped in mid-send - in a dimension I could never leave and be doomed to wander a tight-rope of mini-brot threads in perpetuity getting my beard tangled in those threads. Would anybody ever find me in there, during a deep-zoom? Or even a shallow zoom? Anyway, couple of weeks maybe I'll have a new computer (alrady ordered) and will feel a bit more confident to explore. Appreciate anybody who could fill me in about the Fractal-Art list. If it is doomed I'd like to pay my respects before it is laid to rest. Thanks Ray - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:27:54 -0500 From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Conic Sections coloring methods Kerry, - Did anyone actually see and/or read that 20K tome I posted a few days ago? Yes, I saw it. Read a good chunk of it. Excellent generalization. I just haven't had time to play lately. Damien M. Jones \\ dmj@fractalus.com \\ http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs) \\ http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby) - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 09:53:43 -0700 From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Fractal-Art mailing list > From: Ray Montgomery > Also, over a period of time, I had occasionally wondered what FOTD > and FOTN meant, which I had read once in a while. FTOD is Jim Muth's famous Fractal of the Day featuring a fractal and some philosophy and FOTN my poor imitation, Fractal of the Night where we try to keep up with Dr. J, the Mad Scientist of Fractal Space. > Now, I MUST ask, exactly what is the Fractal-Art mailing list? What > do you do with it? Do you write to it? Do you read it? Do you look at it? > Must you download from it, or upload to it? Is it hard to get to? To > negotiate once there? [...] > Appreciate anybody who could fill me in about the Fractal-Art list. > If it is doomed I'd like to pay my respects before it is laid to rest. > > Thanks Ray Here is the trailer signature from the Fractal Art list. You subscribe just like you did for the Fractint list. It is another email list like this one. When you subscribe you will read its charter which outlines its goals. Fractal-Art, The Fractal Art Discussion List Post Message: fractal-art@aros.net Get Commands: majordomo@aros.net "help" Administrator: noring@netcom.com Unsubscribe: majordomo@aros.net "unsubscribe fractal-art" Subscribe: majordomo@aros.net "subscribe fractal-art" See you there! Jay Hill - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ End of fractint-digest V1 #205 ******************************