From: owner-fractint-digest@lists.xmission.com (fractint-digest) To: fractint-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: fractint-digest V1 #279 Reply-To: fractint-digest Sender: owner-fractint-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-fractint-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk fractint-digest Monday, August 24 1998 Volume 01 : Number 279 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:48:55 EDT From: Subject: Re: (fractint) version 20 Bud writes, > I don't want to be a nudge, but when is v20 coming out? I have > been looking forward to working with the evolver and "formula" > type Mandelbrot/Julia spacebar toggle features (among others), > and the contest has reminded me of their absence. In lieu of > a full release, is a compiled version of the current development > code available somewhere? How do you know what is in the pipeline for the next version of Fractint? I know of the Fractint wishlist, but is there another page of what is actually planned by the programmers? Thanks, Luke lukeplant@aol.com Fractal gallery, 'z squared plus c': http://members.xoom.com/lukeplant/ - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:48:55 EDT From: Subject: Re: (fractint) version 20 Bud writes, > I don't want to be a nudge, but when is v20 coming out? I have > been looking forward to working with the evolver and "formula" > type Mandelbrot/Julia spacebar toggle features (among others), > and the contest has reminded me of their absence. In lieu of > a full release, is a compiled version of the current development > code available somewhere? How do you know what is in the pipeline for the next version of Fractint? I know of the Fractint wishlist, but is there another page of what is actually planned by the programmers? Thanks, Luke lukeplant@aol.com Fractal gallery, 'z squared plus c': http://members.xoom.com/lukeplant/ - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:26:49 -0700 From: Mark Christenson Subject: Re: (fractint) version 20 At 05:48 PM 8/22/98 EDT, Luke wrote: >Bud writes, > >> I don't want to be a nudge, but when is v20 coming out? I have >> been looking forward to working with the evolver and "formula" >> type Mandelbrot/Julia spacebar toggle features (among others), >> and the contest has reminded me of their absence. In lieu of >> a full release, is a compiled version of the current development >> code available somewhere? > >How do you know what is in the pipeline for the next version of Fractint? I >know of the Fractint wishlist, but is there another page of what is actually >planned by the programmers? > >Thanks, > >Luke The evolver was revealed by one of the developers, and the toggle for formula types was something I "suggested" after it had already been planned. Both issues were discussed on this list a while back. Bud - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:54:03 -0400 From: Paul DeCelle Subject: Re: (fractint) version 20 Mark Christenson wrote: > > I don't want to be a nudge, but when is v20 coming out? I have > been looking forward to working with the evolver and "formula" > type Mandelbrot/Julia spacebar toggle features (among others), > and the contest has reminded me of their absence. In lieu of > a full release, is a compiled version of the current development > code available somewhere? > > Thanks, Bud > This may have already been thoroughly discussed, but will Fractint V20 be Win95/98 compatable? I would love to be able to take advantage of multi-tasking and generate images while at the same time run other applications. I've just recently downloaded Ultra-Fractal, but haven't done much with it, yet. Guess I'm in my comfort zone with Fractint, even with the disadvantage of running from DOS. Gotta go - I'm up at 5:00 AM to go after the wiley walleye and magical muskie on Lake St Clair (Detroit) tomorrow.. Best muskie fishing lake in North America... - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:42:10 -0400 From: "Turner Rentz" Subject: Re: (fractint) Running FRACTINT in WIN95 cool! :-) hope the users connected to the server didn't get floored. - -----Original Message----- From: Fliguer, Miguel To: 'fractint@lists.xmission.com' Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 4:09 AM Subject: RE: (fractint) Running FRACTINT in WIN95 >> Dean-Christian Strik[SMTP:cstrik.isg@hetnet.nl] boldly wrote : >> > >>>I'm afraid he never did - at any res > 360x480. WinNT doesn't >support dos VESA > >>>modes. > >I read aloud your statement in front of my 640x480 Fractint screen (on a >Vectra w/ WNT 4.0), >and it's still working... > > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:59:05 -0400 (EDT) From: kragen@pobox.com (Kragen) Subject: Re: (fractint) Running FRACTINT in WIN95 On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Turner Rentz wrote: > >> Dean-Christian Strik[SMTP:cstrik.isg@hetnet.nl] boldly wrote : > >> > > >>>I'm afraid he never did - at any res > 360x480. WinNT doesn't > >support dos VESA > > >>>modes. > > > >I read aloud your statement in front of my 640x480 Fractint screen (on a > >Vectra w/ WNT 4.0), > >and it's still working... 640x480x16 is standard VGA. Dunno about 640x480x256, which is what I assume you're using... Kragen - -- Kragen Sitaker We are forming cells within a global brain and we are excited that we might start to think collectively. What becomes of us still hangs crucially on how we think individually. -- Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of the Web - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:09:51 +0200 From: "Dean-Christian Strik" Subject: Re: (fractint) version 20 >This may have already been thoroughly discussed, but will Fractint V20 >be Win95/98 compatable? I would love to be able to take advantage of >multi-tasking and generate images while at the same time run other >applications. I've just recently downloaded Ultra-Fractal, but haven't >done much with it, yet. Guess I'm in my comfort zone with Fractint, >even with the disadvantage of running from DOS. No, it won't. You can use winfract though (you can get it at spanky) instead. But this isn't completely up to date with the DOS version. Christian - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:15:10 +0200 From: "Dean-Christian Strik" Subject: Re: (fractint) Running FRACTINT in WIN95 Kragen wrote: >On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Turner Rentz wrote: >> >> Dean-Christian Strik[SMTP:cstrik.isg@hetnet.nl] boldly wrote : >> >> >> > >>>I'm afraid he never did - at any res > 360x480. WinNT doesn't >> >support dos VESA >> > >>>modes. >> > >> >I read aloud your statement in front of my 640x480 Fractint screen (on a >> >Vectra w/ WNT 4.0), >> >and it's still working... > >640x480x16 is standard VGA. Dunno about 640x480x256, which is what I >assume you're using... Miguel wrote the maximum he could get is SF5, which is 640x480x256. According to fractint, this SF5 mode is one of the 'VESA Autodetect (works with most SVGA)' modes. Christian - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:55:42 +0200 From: "Hans Bomers" Subject: Re: (fractint) web page Faye, I have been to your homepage, and liked it very much. There are some nice links, and the fractals are good too; especially in the tierazon-gallery. The whole site is a bit dark though, so it looks kinda sad :-( Besides that, the sit is OK. Cubic - -----Original Message----- From: Faye Williams To: fractint@lists.xmission.com Date: donderdag 20 augustus 1998 19:42 Subject: (fractint) web page >I finally have a web page. Please visit and let me know what you think. >Comments good or bad - are welcome. > >http://www.sb.net/arkangel/ > >Faye > > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:32:49 EDT From: Subject: (fractint) webpage addition My page is extremely basic. Mainly because I'm HTML illiterate. :( However,....I had a very nice surprise here at AOL last night and I've added them to my page for anyone interested. This is the 1st time that 2 of my images have been picked in the same week! :) The fractals are named *Kirlian Fractal* (Jm04n007) and *Y2K* (Jm307nv1) Enjoy~ http://members.aol.com/JimBeau549/index.html Jim - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:28:57 -0500 From: "Paul N. Lee" Subject: Re: (fractint) New member of this lists. Hans Bomers wrote: > > Mainly because Dean-Christian Strik (which i know very well) > told me this list was quite interesting, I became a member too. > Don't expect too mmany messages from me; I will first observe the > conversation(s) for a while. > Welcome!! If you wish to review some of the past postings to this list, try the following URL which contains the archive: ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractint/archive/ P.N.L. - ------------------------------------------------- Why do most folks hate cynics so much? Because we're almost always right. - ------------------------------------------------- http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:12:50 -0400 From: "Turner Rentz" Subject: Re: (fractint) Batch Processing You can use psp if you set the options on the jpg save as then use batch mode. Try psp 5 if you don't have it already. TR - -----Original Message----- From: Angela Wilczynski To: Fractint Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 5:43 AM Subject: (fractint) Batch Processing >Does anyone know of a Win95 program that will reduce the size of jpg's >in a batch process? I want to be able to convert my pics to thumbnails >as quickly and easily as possible. > >Currently I have PSP and Corel's Photopaint. > >Angela > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:22:24 -0400 (EDT) From: kragen@pobox.com (Kragen) Subject: Re: (fractint) webpage addition On Sun, 23 Aug 1998 JimBeau549@aol.com wrote: > My page is extremely basic. Mainly because I'm HTML illiterate. :( Well, thank goodness! It's easy to navigate, quick to load, and not too hard to read, either. If you were full of information about all kinds of different HTML things, it'd probably be none of those. :) Kragen - -- Kragen Sitaker We are forming cells within a global brain and we are excited that we might start to think collectively. What becomes of us still hangs crucially on how we think individually. -- Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of the Web - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:13:44 -0700 From: "Faye Williams" Subject: Re: (fractint) webpage addition Very nice Jim. I'm not surprised that 2 of your images were picked. They are beautiful. Faye arkangel@sb.com http://www.sb.net/arkangel/ - -----Original Message----- From: JimBeau549@aol.com To: fractint@lists.xmission.com Cc: JimBeau549@aol.com Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 5:34 AM Subject: (fractint) webpage addition > > My page is extremely basic. Mainly because I'm HTML illiterate. :( >However,....I had a very nice surprise here at AOL last night and I've added >them to my page for anyone interested. This is the 1st time that 2 of my >images have been picked in the same week! :) The fractals are named *Kirlian >Fractal* (Jm04n007) and *Y2K* (Jm307nv1) Enjoy~ >http://members.aol.com/JimBeau549/index.html > >Jim > > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:35:58 -0600 From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) version 20 Bud asked: > I don't want to be a nudge, but when is v20 coming out? I have > been looking forward to working with the evolver and "formula" > type Mandelbrot/Julia spacebar toggle features (among others), > and the contest has reminded me of their absence. The Fractint developers have for the most part taken a summer vacation from the development effort. The current developer version really should be released as soon as possible. The evolver that lets you mutate fractal parameters is the main new feature. Another is the removal of the 2048 pixel limit for most purposes. These features are reasonably complete and stable. The developer version still has a few issues that need to be worked. But given how slowly the team is working these days, perhaps we should release a public beta version. I'll discuss it with the team. I can't make any promises how soon this will be released other than saying we'll look into releasing it sooner rather than later. No, there is still no Win95/98 version. Version 20 is not a huge blockbuster release; the v20 nomenclarure just acknowledges that the increments between 19.0 and 19.6 included more than enough new features to justify incrementing the version. Tim - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 01:34:06 +1200 From: "Morgan L. Owens" Subject: (fractint) Formula inclusion - discussion Formula Inclusion in Fractint .frm files. A discussion paper. Morgan L. Owens *Introduction* Recently I have come back to reconsider a suggestion I made on this list regarding the possibility of a formula inclusion construct. This was in response to the enormous formulae and formula files that were then appearing, partly due to the introduction of the IF-ENDIF construct and partly the ability to scroll through a formula entry in the Z screen - both innovations appearing with v19.6. The formulae of Paul Carlson, Kerry Mitchell and Damien Jones are examples in point. Many of these formulae got their length less from the formula being iterated than from elaborate bailout tests and colouring methods. Another cause is the detailed annotation that many of these formulae are equipped with. The principal drawback of these trends is the large size and increasing unreadability of formulae and formula files. Formula files have the additional problem of large chunks of code and commentary being repeated multiple times as they are reused in formula after formula. If one wishes to use a certain custom colouring method on a new fractal, one must copy all the code for that colouring method into the new formula; the only actual difference between the new formula entry and the original may literally be a matter of two lines. So to consider this situation as one which could do with addressing, I shall submit here a suggested approach to trimming formulae and formula files down to size, while at the same time promoting readability. This is a suggestion only; I certainly am not making prescriptions as to what should be done, merely what could be done. I am not involved with writing Fractint, so this paper should be considered not as a demand that anyone need necessarily go along with it, but as serving as the basis for a possible discussion among the Fractint community. *A Suggestion: The # construct.* The suggestion is a very simple one. Repeated blocks of code are written under a formula name of their own, and when the formula writer wishes to use one of these blocks of code in a formula, a reference to the block is inserted instead. References are indicated by means of a "#" character. This character has been chosen for a number of reasons: 1. It's already used in C programming to indicate a preprocessor command; for example, "#include " signals the C compiler to include the contents of the file "time.h" at this location. 2. It has no current role in the Fractint formula language, so no existing formulae would be "broken" by its introduction. 3. It is not widely used in Fractint commentary. Of the files in my copy of the Orgform collection, only eight use the '#' in comments. This makes searching for occurrences of '#' (and hence fragments) easier. Let's look at a very simple example. This certainly does not do the concept justice, but does show the technical details. Consider two formula entries: Greebled_Lambda { z = pixel, c = p1 #Greeble_initialise : z = z * (1 - z ) * c #Greeble_colouring } Greebled_Mandel { z = 0, c = pixel #Greeble_initialise : z = z * z + c #Greeble_colouring } The two formulae differ in only three lines (counting the name), and it hides the fact that the "Greeble" colouring method (whatever that looks like) involves seventy lines of code in the test, and four lines of initialisation to specify constants and extra user parameters. Of course, Fractint has to be told about those 74 lines sooner or later, and elsewhere in the same formula file as the two entries above one would find: #Greeble-initialise { [four lines of initialisation code snipped] } #Greeble-colouring { [seventy lines of code, ending with a boolean bailout expression] } Assuming these four entries are the only four in the file, and assuming an extra blank line between each entry, we have a file that is 94 lines long. Compare this with the 159 of the conventional representation. Compare also the 8 lines added by Greebled_Thingy { z = 0, c = pixel+p1 #Greeble_initialise : z=sin(z) + z*z/fn1(z*c) #Greeble_colouring } with the 80 added in the conventional setting (bringing the totals up to (102 and 239, respectively.) You will have noticed that the "#Greeble-initialise" and "#Greeble- colouring" entries also carry the '#' character. The reason for this is twofold: 1. Fractint would know to ignore entries beginning with '#' when listing the contents of a formula file in the formula selection screen. 2. Strictly speaking, '#'d formula entries are "formula fragments" (which is the term we'll use henceforth), and usually not complete formulae in their own right. For example, in our mythical Greeble example neither formula fragment is complete. They both lack a colon to indicate the end of initialisation, #Greeble-initialise doesn't end with a boolean expression for testing bailout with, and so on. Some formula fragments may actually contain no code at all. For example, one might have #Copyright-notice { ; This formula is Copyright (C)1998 Ender Wiggin ; Email: Wiggin@dragon.battleschool.mil ; ; No attractors were harmed in the making of this fractal. ; ; None of the opinions expressed herein are mine. They were forced upon ; me at gunpoint by the faculty of this institution. } Indeed, no doubt there are uses for the "#Nothing{}" fragment. The usage of a formula fragment name is kind of a cross between the "ENDIF" statement and a comment. It sits on a line of its own, it begins when the '#' is reached, and it ends at the end of the name, which follows the same rules as formula names. Anything following the name on the line is ignored. So for example: z=z*z+c #Stretch-z #Tweak-z ;A harmless comment. c=c+1 #Twist-about-centre z=c/p2 z=z+#Naughty-stuff The statement "z=c/p2" is never parsed, and the last line results in an error. These restrictions - which basically force formula fragment usages into lines on their own - have been chosen to minimise confusion when writing and parsing. Does "#Twist-about-p1" refer to a formula fragment named "#Twist-about-p1" or does it mean "#Twist-about minus parameter-1"? Since hyphens can appear in formula entry names, the former is the case. Note that "#Twist-about - p1" will be read as saying "#Twist-about". *The '#' construct and the parser.* There are virtually no restrictions on the contents of a formula fragment. Any consective sequence of complete lines from a formula can be bundled up and whacked into a fragment with total disregard for syntactic correctnes of the result. Fragments could straddle the colon and spill over from the initialisation section into the loop, IFs and their matching ENDIFs could be sitting in different fragments, and so on. In the above example, if you really _did_ want to use #Naughty-stuff that way, you can make use of the fact that the formula language allows the use of '\' to spread statements over multiple lines: z=z+\ #Naughty-stuff is legal. #Naughty-stuff should then at least begin with an arithmetic expression lacking an '='. Another example harks back to Greebling. Note that in every Greebled formula, the line "#Greeble_initialise" is followed by a colon. Well, why not tack the colon to the end of #Greeble_initialise, and then we can drop it from the formula entries themselves? Greebled_Lambda { z = pixel, c = p1 #Greeble_initialise z = z * (1 - z ) * c #Greeble_colouring } Greebled_Mandel { z = 0, c = pixel #Greeble_initialise z = z * z + c #Greeble_colouring } Greebled_Thingy { z = 0, c = pixel+p1 #Greeble_initialise z=sin(z) + z*z/fn1(z*c) #Greeble_colouring } #Greeble-initialise { [four lines of initialisation code snipped] : } #Greeble-colouring { [seventy lines of code, ending with a boolean bailout expression] } When Fractint is reading a formula and comes across a formula fragment usage, it jumps to that fragment's entry and reads everything between the braces. When it gets to the closing '}', it jumps back to where it had left off and resumes. Exactly the same effect could be achieved by hand: copy the contents of each fragment that is used and paste it in place of the inclusion statement that calls it. (Note for implementors: A stack of fragment calls will need to be maintained both to keep track of nested fragments and to spot errors of the "#foo uses #bar while #bar uses #foo" variety.) Note that all this is going on while the formula is being read in. This is important from the user's point of view because it means that the formula displayed in the Z screen and elsewhere within Fractint's interface is the complete formula after all included fragments have been included. This means that commentary about authorship, suggested default values, etc., will be available to users without their having to worry about the fact that both might be stored in fragments. (Another note for implementors: Messages generated by errors within fragments should refer to the fragment, not the formula that's including it. The most niggly error in this context would probably be a broken IF- ENDIF construct.) *Fragments across multiple files - Toolkits* One may use a particular fragment many times indeed, and have several files that contain formulae using it. Rather than having a copy of the fragment available in each file (which kind of begins to defeat the purpose of having fragments in the first place), one may instead have multiple-file spanning. This requires a slight extension to the syntax of inclusion. If the fragment you want to use, say #Mobius_Transform, is over in the file Conform.frm then something along the lines of "#Conform\Mobius_Transform" would be called for. I'm not sure about using the backslash character here, mightn't a reuse of '#' be better? "#Conform#Mobius_Transform"? At any rate, it can't be a character that's already allowed in a formula (fragment) name, and probably shouldn't be one that's already widely used in Fractint formulae (see note 3 on justifying the use of '#' above). Once this extension is available, however, one can build and maintain toolkits of useful formula-type things: fractal definitions, bailout tests, colouring methods, common transformations.... If the file (in this case, Conform.frm) is not found, or it's found but #Mobius_Transform isn't in it, presumably Fractint will go on a hunt through all the other formula files in an attempt to track it down. *Distribution of fragmented formulae* This could get fiddly. You receive a formula, but you don't have the fragments it uses. Someone posts a complete 300-line formula, then posts another 300-line formula with two lines' difference. These are two ends of a spectrum of possibilities. A sensible middle ground may be to post and email formulae and their fragments together, without whacking the fragments into the formulae. The increase in size of emails and postings would scarcely rise, and if several formulas that use the same fragments are distributed together, there would be a significant decrease. It would be up to the distributor to make sure that the formulae and fragments as given would stand on their own feet, just as Fractint users now check that pars have their colour information intact, and are careful about supplying the formula when it's likely that the recipient doesn't have it already. A drawback is that it would make maintaining Orgform more difficult. Sorry, George! :-) *Interfacing with fragments.* Basically, knowing how to use fragments is up to the programmer. Since the fragment is whacked bodily into the formula, its usage of variables, parameters, and so forth has to be consistent with the formula's own usages in order to prevent rude noises and red text boxes or bungled images. Suitable commentary is probably a good idea. *Conclusion* No conclusion. It's silly to start a discussion with a conclusion. It's just that I've realised I should put this out now or I'll be tinkering with it all night. Morgan L. Owens - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:35:46 -0400 (EDT) From: kragen@pobox.com (Kragen) Subject: Re: (fractint) Formula inclusion - discussion On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Morgan L. Owens wrote: > So to consider this situation as one which could do with addressing, I > shall submit here a suggested approach to trimming formulae and formula > files down to size, while at the same time promoting readability. > > . . . References are indicated by means of a "#" character. . . . I think your idea is an excellent one. To contribute to the discussion: - - I'm not sure that references to blocks containing only comments are really useful. A comment saying '; see copyright notice at top of file' would work just as well. - - It'd be nice to be able to do recursion, which would mean having the "formula-inclusion" happen later on in life -- not in the parser frontend, but in the formula-evaluating back end. This would also tend to promote better error messages, since things like IF-ENDIF mismatches would be more easily localized. - - Maybe your # marker, meaning "not a complete formula", is a good idea. Kragen - -- Kragen Sitaker We are forming cells within a global brain and we are excited that we might start to think collectively. What becomes of us still hangs crucially on how we think individually. -- Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of the Web - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:20:51 +0200 From: "Dean-Christian Strik" Subject: Re: (fractint) Formula inclusion - discussion Morgan, I like your suggestions very much. And I agree there's sure some advantage in it, looking at ever-expanding .frm files. Your '#nothing{}' blocks are actually unnecessary. Fractint supports multiple comment{} blocks. Of course something similar could be added to the .par files. And even to the frm:{} entries in .par files. Christian - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:54:21 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luc-Andr=E9_Rey?=" Subject: (fractint) new site Hello, (sorry for my bad english...) My site : http://www.myale.org/09/warey/fract/index.html A amateur's site. I hope you like it. Luc-Andre - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:03:28 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luc-Andr=E9_Rey?=" Subject: Re: (fractint) new site Sorry, the url is http://www.mygale.org/09/warey/fract/index.html - ---------- > De : Luc-Andr=E9 Rey > A : fractint@lists.xmission.com > Objet : (fractint) new site > Date=A0: lundi, 24. ao=FBt 1998 21:54 >=20 > Hello, > (sorry for my bad english...) >=20 > My site : > http://www.myale.org/09/warey/fract/index.html > A amateur's site. >=20 > I hope you like it. >=20 > Luc-Andre >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:47:25 -0400 From: Paul DeCelle Subject: Re: (fractint) new site >Luc-Andr=E9 Rey wrote: > = > My site : > http://www.myale.org/09/warey/fract/index.html Luc-Andre-- I couldn't load your site - I get the following message: "The requested item could not be loaded by the proxy. Netscape Proxy is unable to locate the server: www.myale.org The server does not have a DNS entry. Check the server name in the Location (URL) and try again." Maybe you just have an error in the URL as posted... Regards, Paul - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:55:22 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luc-Andr=E9_Rey?=" Subject: Re: (fractint) new site Yes, i'm sorry the correct url is http://www.myGale.org/09/warey/fract/index.html I'im verry sorry for the inconveniences.Luc-Andr=E9 lrey@worldcom.ch http://www.mygale.org/09/warey/fract/index.html - pour le plaisir des yeux... - ---------- > De : Paul DeCelle > A : fractint@lists.xmission.com > Objet : Re: (fractint) new site > Date=A0: lundi, 24. ao=FBt 1998 23:47 >=20 > >Luc-Andr=E9 Rey wrote: > >=20 > > My site : > > http://www.myale.org/09/warey/fract/index.html >=20 >=20 > Luc-Andre-- >=20 > I couldn't load your site - I get the following message: >=20 > "The requested item could not be loaded by the proxy. >=20 > Netscape Proxy is unable to locate the server: www.myale.org The server > does not have a DNS entry. Check the server name in the Location (URL) > and try again." >=20 > Maybe you just have an error in the URL as posted... >=20 > Regards, Paul >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:02:19 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luc-Andr=E9_Rey?=" Subject: (fractint) Sorry I'm sorry, the correct url of my little site is : http://www.mygale.org/09/warey/fract/index.html Sorry for inconvenciences (and my very very "little" english :-) Luc-Andr=E9 lrey@worldcom.ch http://www.mygale.org/09/warey/fract/index.html - pour le plaisir des yeux... - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ End of fractint-digest V1 #279 ******************************