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fractint-digest       Thursday, October 15 1998       Volume 01 : Number 316




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:59:10 -0000
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <dean2@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: (fractint) RE: [fractal-art] Immersive-visualization  Solutions

Kragen wrote:

> <snip>
>
>Make sense?

Makes sense to me :-)

However, depending on the storage format of the archive, I guess some bytes are reserved
per file for storage/algo information. Dunno much about pkzip (e.g.), but zips seem to be
using different algorithms (?). I guess so because pkzip is that fancy to show whether
it's compressing, deflating, imploding, or whatever 'algo's'. It seems to me that when an
archiver detects that the file that's added and compressed is actually *larger* then the
original, the archiver can 'store' it instead. I believe ARJ to do this. RAR for instance
'compresses' anyway, but ARJ must be *forced* by a command line option, -jsomething, to do
so (reason ARJ gives to force: encryption). But this is only theory.

>>> Does there exist a dos (or even windows) version of bzip2? I have it for linux, but
>> switching to linux every time to compress isn't very practical (I can't connect to the
>> internet from linux, so I default to windows :-(  ).
>
>Why can't you connect to the Internet from Linux?

ISP. I actually have a free ISP that has to be connected to through a proxy server. Don't
like this for linux - I'm still quite a newbie - hope to change this soon :) . Till now,
I've tried a friend's ISP (GlobalXS). Get thrown off the line in a minute(?). Doesn't seem
completely linux-related; from a windows terminal the same happens. I surfed to the Dutch
Linux Users Group (Nederlandse Linux Gebruikers Groep, www.nllgg.nl) for there are some
dial-in scripts for dutch providers. No one for GlobalXS (which isn't a real small isp,
really). Tried other scripts, puzzled a lot... doesn't seem to work out right.

>I'm sure bzip2 would be pretty easy to compile for DOS.

Sure. I'll try to cross-compile it from linux (djgpp-compiles programs *always* crash
(exception 0E, page fault) on my puter :-(  ).

- --

Dean-Christian Strik
   ICQ: 11760568
 dean2@bigfoot.com
cstrik.isg@hetnet.nl

Real computer scientists despise the idea of actual hardware. Hardware has limitations,
software doesnt. It's a real shame that Turing machines are so poor at I/O.





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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:02:24 -0400
From: Paul Derbyshire <pderbysh@usa.net>
Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTW

It should be...that's odd...I'll check it out.

I have hring and nuclear formulas written for ultra fractal btw.
- -- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:09:36 -0400
From: Paul Derbyshire <pderbysh@usa.net>
Subject: Re: (fractint) High iteration zooms

At 03:24 AM 10/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>You also have the BODY tag specified on a FRAMESET file
>which is not allowed...

Actually, that is fairly often done to make a site Lynx friendly and Mosaic
friendly. If a browser supports frames it ignores anything after the
frameset info, and if it doesn't, it ignores the frameset info and displays
what follows, which can be a frameless version of the same page. When I
sometimes use Lynx I much prefer seeing that to seeing a blank page, which
is how Lynx and other frameless browsers render an
anally-retentively-correct frameset page. Then I have to hit view source,
and look at the frameset links, and guess which one is the fucking document
and not some toolbar or link list or snazzy logo, and try them by entering
them directly. :P

><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">

What's this... looks like a comment, but not human-readable. Javascript?

><HTML>
><HEAD>
><TITLE>Kim's Fractal Gallery</TITLE>
><meta name = "description" content = "A gallery with fractal images.">
><meta name = "keywords" content = "fractal, images, fractint, gallery,
>mandelbrot">

What the...?

></HEAD>
><FRAMESET COLS="125,*" FRAMESPACING="0" BORDER="FALSE" FRAMEBORDER="0">
><FRAME NAME="THEMENU" SRC="fracmenu.html" NORESIZE FRAMEBORDER=0
>BORDERCOLOR=#00ff00>
><FRAME NAME="THESITE" SRC="startfrac.html" NORESIZE FRAMEBORDER=0
>BORDERCOLOR=#00ff00>
><NOFRAMES>
>This page uses frames, but your browser doesn't support them..."
></NOFRAMES>

Is this a new standard for placing something there for frameless browsers
to render? Much better to put an actual copy of the page sans fancier
features there than this terse message. I wouldn't like to encounter this
and have to muck through source in order to find the actual page. At least
link to the main document page instead of leaving a dead end like this. I
know nobody's going to try viewing a fractal gallery in Lynx, but browsers
like Mosaic (I think) and some others that are graphical also don't support
frames...

- -- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:25:32 -0400
From: Paul Derbyshire <pderbysh@usa.net>
Subject: RE: (fractint) RE: [fractal-art] Immersive-visualization  Solutions

>On average, the best
>*any* archiver can do for any data is about 50% compression.

I don't think so. Typical binary data compresses about 50%. Some things
(especially already-compressed data!) barely compress at all, or don't
compress. (And storing them in a compressed format will often bloat these!
The decompression data in the header overwhelmes the slim-to-none
compression savings.) But some specific kinds of data compress a great
deal. Even high quality JPG compression can make a fairly uncomplicated
picture shrink by a factor of four, six, eight, even a dozen. Text
frequently compresses 5-10 times under common streaming compression
techniques because of the unused eight bit (redundant, there's 1/8 off the
data size already), the great bias toward only a few bytes (the
alphanumerics, then the space and punctuation, and none of the unprintable
characters at all), and then the frequent occurrence of words ranging from
"the" to fairly substantial ones. Every occurrence of space "the" space
probably becomes a couple byte identifier, saving three bytes for every
such occurrence...
Animations have the same sort of redundancy as regular image data but in
three dimensions, adding to compressibility. MPG can get 100-fold
compression over the raw frame data.

>That's why no
>one has replaced zip as the virtual Wintel standard, because on average, you
>can't really do much better.

The who standard?

>    // btw, bzip2 has usually about 20% better compression than zip, arj,
>    // gzip, etc.  I wonder if it uses the same methods as RAR?  It's also
>    // very slow.
>    //

Zip is probably preferred to bzip2 because of the speed. Speed/space
tradeoffs are very common in computing. Many many algorithms can be
mathematically proven to be either slow, space hogging, or some compromise
between the two.

>I'll take higher compression over speed any day.

As with most such tradeoffs, alternate variants that choose differently
usually arise, so that users have their choice of speed versus space.


- -- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:30:49 -0400
From: Paul Derbyshire <pderbysh@usa.net>
Subject: RE: (fractint) RE: [fractal-art] Immersive-visualization  Solutions

At 01:21 PM 10/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
>No archiver can compress completely random data, even by 1%.  No one
>has proven any bounds on the compression possible for any particular
>kind of nonrandom data, partly because most real nonrandom data is very
>difficult to characterize mathematically.

Why don't they make some up then... Markov chains, chaotic iterations
(veering slightly toward on-topic), and the like all offer means of
creating mathematically exact and anaylzable data with similar
characteristics to real data. (E.g. stock market data.) Also,
typical-looking written text for any language can be computer-generated
with the syntactic and statistical properties of real text (but meaningless
semantics); I've done that myself; and the statistical properties of every
major language are extremely well documented from much analysis of
thousands of written texts, this data being primarily useful for
cryptanalysis and cryptography; it would also be useful for studying the
redundancy and compressibility of text in various languages.

Also, real world data can be fed into a computer for "autocorrelation
analysis". The higher the autocorrelation, the more compressible the data.
The higher the autocorrelation on already-compressed data, the more
horribly inefficient the compression that was used :-)


- -- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:45:03 -0400
From: Paul Derbyshire <pderbysh@usa.net>
Subject: Re: (fractint) RE: [fractal-art] Immersive-visualization  Solutions

At 03:10 PM 10/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
The
>mapping has to be one-to-one, because you want to decompress the
>resulting string of bits later to get the original.  If more than one
>original compressed into the same string of bits, there'd be no way to
>tell which original to reconstruct.

Note that this is true of most compressions used on computers and all used
on arbitrary data, but false for compression functions used on certain
kinds of data, mainly image, animation, and sound data, where exact
reproduction is not critical. (JPG and MPG are well-known compression
schemes that are for specific kinds of data and are not one-one.)

>You could do something clever, like come up with 128 different
>algorithms, at least one of which would compress the million-and-one
>byte file down to a file of a million bytes or less.  Then you could
>try all 128 algorithms, and just output the result of the one that gave
>you the smallest output.  But wait!  You have to prepend a byte to the
>beginning of the file to tell the decompressor *which algorithm* to
>decompress with.  (Well, seven bits.)  It turns out that blows away
>your compression.
>
>Make sense?

Certainly. And the proof: the new compression algorithm that picks another
algorithm and chooses the best is also a one-one mapping. You can't climb
out of that box.
You might suppose you could leave out that byte, and use the best
algorithm, and write a *smart* decompresser that somehow can tell which of
the various possible reconstruction is semantically correct and therefore
the original. Your prepended-byte argument wouldn't show it then, but this
could still not achieve perfect compression for the same reason. (After
all, for the hypothetical smart decompresser to work, you could not have
algorithm A turn data A into data C,and algorithm B turn data B into the
same data C. Therefore, it's still one-one without the prepended byte, OR
it isn't one-one and the smart decompresser is impossible.)

>Why can't you connect to the Internet from Linux?

I'm wondering the same thing. A lot of people run frwaking servers off
linux boxes for chrissakes. A sendmail here and an apache httpd there...
here a fingerd, there a telnetd, everywhere an nntpd...


- -- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:47:44 -0400
From: Paul Derbyshire <pderbysh@usa.net>
Subject: (fractint) www.useit.com: Don't waste your time.

Someone gave a URL at "www.useit.com" for some html related thing.....(an
anti-frame rant I believe.)

Don't waste your time, he misspelled something, because there is no such
host as www.useit.com. There is a www.use-it.com (with a dash) but it's
some site in a foreign language and with *frames*, so I'm fairly sure it
isn't the site you meant.....
- -- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:56:50 -0400
From: Paul Derbyshire <pderbysh@usa.net>
Subject: Re: (fractint) RE: [fractal-art] Immersive-visualization  Solutions

>Sure. I'll try to cross-compile it from linux (djgpp-compiles programs
*always* crash
>(exception 0E, page fault) on my puter :-(  ).

That's weird, what djgpp version? 2.02 with gcc 2.8.0 works fine on my
typical w95 install. Do you have w98? Maybe sly old gatesboy stuck an
anti-djgpp directive in it to force developers to buy crummy Microsoft or
crummier Borland products. I imagine ever since rsxntdj came out he's had
nightmares about developers making programs for windows for free and
spreading them for free and never buying (pun intended) into the modern
Western $$$-cult at all.... the horror! Those joyriders ought to stick on
the sinking ship (yeah, right Gates) of Linux where they belong!

Well, Microsoft is managing to make even the steep-learning-curve,
user-unfriendly, wizard-language speaking Linux popular by making Windows
a) less and less popular and b) the only alternative... and other freeware
OSes are in the works.... some written using gnu compilers.... Gates must
feel like this IS a nightmare, everything spiraling down the drain, the
center of the elitist money cult empire (not to mention Microsoft's market
share) not holding, and everything he tries to clutch for himself slipping
through his fingers...
- -- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:46:58 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <twegner@phoenix.net>
Subject: (fractint) On Topic please

List traffic is very high once again. For this reason I request that list members 
keep messages on the subject of fractint and fractals so that this list can better 
serve members. Thanks!

Tim Wegner
Fractint list administrator


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:50:28 +1000
From: "Regina & Steve" <sleepysams@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: (fractint) new virus

>Well, all those cab files aren't really nessecary.  If you have the
original
>Win95 CD (if you don't, well, wink-wink <g>)  and you are running out of
>space, you can delete them all.  There just there if you want to install
>more Windows components, or if you need to install new drivers.  They
aren't
>nessecary for the day to day operation of Windows.  (You can really just
>delete the whole Cabs directory.)

They don't take much space, so they can lie there dormant.....just like
windows really is.....

>    // A virus isn't going to tell you its name!
It's worth a try! - never had one yet (except win)

>    // Anyway....don't give in to the paranoia[ witch hunt ] that
>    // some like to spread
>    // and feed into.
>    // You can get a virus unless you put your  'puter where you
>    // shouldn't put yur
>    // 'puter!

um, right.....;-)

>    // :-P
>    // In other words. Don't download executables .exe files, from
>    // untrustworthy
>    // sources
Is there really such a thing as a truly trustworthy source....... (ok so I'm
paranoid, but that doesn't mean they are not after me;-)

>    // sources and you'll be fine.
>    // If you're really conserned or worried
<snip>
I'm more worried when I hear about them 'cause usually they're new and
antivirus software needs to know about them before they can detect them
anyway - so you are never really safe (no need to go into the details, I did
some research and with all the time it would take to keep a proper antivirus
system up to date and functional, it will be quicker and easier for me just
to reformat/reinstall). So really, when it comes to the crunch, *someone*
needs to get infected before they can write the anti (I doubt the creator of
the virus would go to the trouble). Anyway as long as I can reformat,
reinstall etc....its only a major drama, not the end of a computer.
>    // Sincerely,
>    // Steve
>    //


Anyway, because the virus was announced on this list, I thought perhaps
someone on this list (the person who wrote or a related computer) had been
infected, therefore any exe's accessed that they had could be infected etc,
etc..... which means there could be a risk and this IS useful info. There
are *so* many viruses being written daily who can keep up?

Now, to write some bacteria and force users to do their monthly update;-)

Music is my life, Fractals are my soulmates, Administration provides me with
money.
Shame I can't be in the testing dept sleeping all day...

- - We sleep 1/3 of our lives. Choose wisely.
sleepysams@sea.com - the sea is just a bigpond


I've had no problems with accessing my web page today, anyone else still
having/had problems?
Web Page: last updated 6th October 1998 (thumbnails only)
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/3524/index.html






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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:14:00 -0400
From: Paul Derbyshire <pderbysh@usa.net>
Subject: (fractint) Holy SHIT :-)

That FOTW was a brilliant idea, ever since I put it there I get like twice
the hits... mostly, on Wednesdays hehe. 57 yesterday! Maybe I should add a
ZSOTW.......
- -- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:44:03 +1000
From: "Regina & Steve" <sleepysams@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re:webpage

It means loosing the cache of my contest98. Other methods of deleting
seperate files haven't worked. Any ideas on this. I hate win.


The images are in bitmap format (i have to do the floppy shuffle to convert
them) so I'll be doing that for my next update & perhaps I'll have some new
ones & links to large versions. Anyone out there who can read bitmaps into
their browser? Can you confirm this - thanks.

I'll also look for other problems - like formating but what I did was really
basic and I don't have much time to work at it - its not part of my job
description.

bye,
regina

Music is my life, Fractals are my soulmates, Administration provides me with
money.
Shame I can't be in the testing dept sleeping all day...

- - We sleep 1/3 of our lives. Choose wisely.
sleepysams@sea.com - the sea is just a bigpond

Web Page: last updated 6th October 1998 (thumbnails only)
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/3524/index.html
- -----Original Message-----
From: SKarl52884@aol.com <SKarl52884@aol.com>
To: fractint@lists.xmission.com <fractint@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Monday, 12 October 1998 17:40
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re:webpage


>In a message dated 10/12/98 12:29:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>sleepysams@bigpond.com writes:
>
><< Thanks, I'll have to check it out as I get the images when I access the
> page, >>
>This "might" be because you didn't empty your browser cache after uploading
>the
>page. It "might" be reading the files from your local drive instead of
>geosites.
>Emptying your browser cache before final appraisal of your site could be a
>good idea
>to avoid allowing your browser to load info. from local drive when your
>objective is to see it load from your servers drive.
>Steve
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:13:41 +0200
From: "Frederik Slijkerman" <fjslman@wins.uva.nl>
Subject: Re: (fractint) RE: [fractal-art] Immersive-visualization Solutions

> >That's why no
> >one has replaced zip as the virtual Wintel standard, because on average,
you
> >can't really do much better.
> 
> The who standard?

Yeah, yeah, Paul, we know you don't like Windows by now...  :(

Frederik.


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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 06:29:26 EDT
From: SKarl52884@aol.com
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re:webpage

In a message dated 10/15/98 5:03:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sleepysams@bigpond.com writes:

<< It means loosing the cache of my contest98. Other methods of deleting
 seperate files haven't worked. Any ideas on this. I hate win.
 
  >>
You're not using it propperly. Store anything you want to keep in a safe
place.
Your cache is meant to be transient.
S.

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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:28:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: kragen@pobox.com (Kragen)
Subject: Re: (fractint) High iteration zooms

On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Paul Derbyshire wrote:
> At 03:24 AM 10/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
> Actually, that is fairly often done to make a site Lynx friendly and Mosaic
> friendly. If a browser supports frames it ignores anything after the
> frameset info, and if it doesn't, it ignores the frameset info and displays
> what follows, which can be a frameless version of the same page. When I
> sometimes use Lynx I much prefer seeing that to seeing a blank page, which
> is how Lynx and other frameless browsers render an
> anally-retentively-correct frameset page. Then I have to hit view source,
> and look at the frameset links, and guess which one is the fucking document
> and not some toolbar or link list or snazzy logo, and try them by entering
> them directly. :P

Recent versions of Lynx display the <frame> tags as links.

<body> is the wrong way to handle this anyway.  See below.

> ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
> 
> What's this... looks like a comment, but not human-readable. Javascript?

It's an SGML declaration that says it's an HTML 3.2 document.

> ><HTML>
> ><HEAD>
> ><TITLE>Kim's Fractal Gallery</TITLE>
> ><meta name = "description" content = "A gallery with fractal images.">
> ><meta name = "keywords" content = "fractal, images, fractint, gallery,
> >mandelbrot">
> 
> What the...?

Search engine food.

> ><NOFRAMES>
> >This page uses frames, but your browser doesn't support them..."
> ></NOFRAMES>
> 
> Is this a new standard for placing something there for frameless browsers
> to render?

No, it was invented at the same time frames were for that purpose.

> Much better to put an actual copy of the page sans fancier
> features there than this terse message.

Agreed.  (Although it's better than the equivalents I've seen in other
places: "Get a real browser, bozo.")

> I wouldn't like to encounter this
> and have to muck through source in order to find the actual page. At least
> link to the main document page instead of leaving a dead end like this. I
> know nobody's going to try viewing a fractal gallery in Lynx, but browsers
> like Mosaic (I think) and some others that are graphical also don't support
> frames...

Opera has the very nice option to turn frames OFF.

Kragen

- -- 
<kragen@pobox.com>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
A well designed system must take people into account.  . . .  It's hard to
build a system that provides strong authentication on top of systems that
can be penetrated by knowing someone's mother's maiden name.  -- Schneier


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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:32:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: kragen@pobox.com (Kragen)
Subject: RE: (fractint) RE: [fractal-art] Immersive-visualization   Solutions

On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Paul Derbyshire wrote:
> >On average, the best
> >*any* archiver can do for any data is about 50% compression.
> 
>  . . . But some specific kinds of data compress a great
> deal. Even high quality JPG compression can make a fairly uncomplicated
> picture shrink by a factor of four, six, eight, even a dozen.

.jpg compression is lossy, and that's a whole different ballgame.  The
image you get out is visually similar to the image you put in, but it's
not the same.

If you have sufficient tolerance for lossiness, you can get any
compression ratio you want, even 1,000,000 to 1.  :)

> Animations have the same sort of redundancy as regular image data but in
> three dimensions, adding to compressibility. MPG can get 100-fold
> compression over the raw frame data.

MPEG is lossy too.

> >    // btw, bzip2 has usually about 20% better compression than zip, arj,
> >    // gzip, etc.  I wonder if it uses the same methods as RAR?  It's also
> >    // very slow.
> 
> Zip is probably preferred to bzip2 because of the speed. Speed/space
> tradeoffs are very common in computing. Many many algorithms can be
> mathematically proven to be either slow, space hogging, or some compromise
> between the two.

ZIP is probably preferred to bzip2 because (a) bzip2 just compresses
- --- it doesn't make archives --- (b) ZIP is widely used already.

Kragen

- -- 
<kragen@pobox.com>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
A well designed system must take people into account.  . . .  It's hard to
build a system that provides strong authentication on top of systems that
can be penetrated by knowing someone's mother's maiden name.  -- Schneier


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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:54:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: kragen@pobox.com (Kragen)
Subject: Re: (fractint) www.useit.com: Don't waste your time.

On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Paul Derbyshire wrote:
> Someone gave a URL at "www.useit.com" for some html related thing.....(an
> anti-frame rant I believe.)
> 
> Don't waste your time, he misspelled something, because there is no such
> host as www.useit.com.

Indeed there is.  I just downloaded a web page from it to be sure.

> There is a www.use-it.com (with a dash) but it's
> some site in a foreign language and with *frames*, so I'm fairly sure it
> isn't the site you meant.....

It isn't.

Kragen

- -- 
<kragen@pobox.com>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
A well designed system must take people into account.  . . .  It's hard to
build a system that provides strong authentication on top of systems that
can be penetrated by knowing someone's mother's maiden name.  -- Schneier


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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:56:04 +0100
From: Dave <Dave@Quanta.co.uk>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Re:webpage

> << It means loosing the cache of my contest98. Other methods of
> deleting
>  seperate files haven't worked. Any ideas on this. I hate win.
Yeah - once you've finished surfin', pull all the JPEGS/GIFS from your
cache into a permanent storage area, such as a folder marked "FractPics"
or something. 

Whenever I find sites of interest, I tend to pull the HTML pages into a
separate folder, and the relevent graphics into a sub-folder, then
manually edit the references in the HTML pages so that I can browse
off-line and still view all and sundry in it's glory. Then I can at
least clear out the cache without losing anything of interest.

For all it's faults, I've found IE to at least name the files in the
cache something relevent to their original names, so linking them is
fairly easy. However, Netscape called them by daft names and I had
difficulty finding which was which (is this normal, or is there
something I haven't set correctly to avoid this?)


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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:07:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: kragen@pobox.com (Kragen)
Subject: (fractint) Tim's request

Tim requested no more non-fractal-related stuff.

I will post no more non-fractal messages.

Are there points in a Cantor dust other than points that were at some
point endpoints of segments?  How many endpoints are there?  (I
understand there are aleph-one points left in the final dust.)

Kragen

- -- 
<kragen@pobox.com>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
A well designed system must take people into account.  . . .  It's hard to
build a system that provides strong authentication on top of systems that
can be penetrated by knowing someone's mother's maiden name.  -- Schneier


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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:38:48 -0000
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <dean2@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: (fractint) RE: [fractal-art] Immersive-visualization  Solutions

Paul wrote:


>>Sure. I'll try to cross-compile it from linux (djgpp-compiles programs
>*always* crash
>>(exception 0E, page fault) on my puter :-(  ).
>
>That's weird, what djgpp version? 2.02 with gcc 2.8.0 works fine on my
>typical w95 install. Do you have w98?

I do have win98. But the problem was already there when i used win95. Sorry, I can't look
up version number and such right now. But anyway, I'll have to do some more 'research' to
get the exact problem (and solution?).

>Maybe sly old gatesboy stuck an
>anti-djgpp directive in it to force developers to buy crummy Microsoft or
>crummier Borland products. I imagine ever since rsxntdj came out he's had
>nightmares about developers making programs for windows for free and
>spreading them for free and never buying (pun intended) into the modern
>Western $$$-cult at all.... the horror! Those joyriders ought to stick on
>the sinking ship (yeah, right Gates) of Linux where they belong!

>Well, Microsoft is managing to make even the steep-learning-curve,
>user-unfriendly, wizard-language speaking Linux popular by making Windows
>a) less and less popular and b) the only alternative... and other freeware
>OSes are in the works.... some written using gnu compilers.... Gates must
>feel like this IS a nightmare, everything spiraling down the drain, the
>center of the elitist money cult empire (not to mention Microsoft's market
>share) not holding, and everything he tries to clutch for himself slipping
>through his fingers...

Umm... you seem to want to start a platform war... :-)
But I agree with your views... though I'm not that obsessed :-)

- --

Dean-Christian Strik
   ICQ: 11760568
 dean2@bigfoot.com
cstrik.isg@hetnet.nl

Real computer scientists despise the idea of actual hardware. Hardware has limitations,
software doesnt. It's a real shame that Turing machines are so poor at I/O.




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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:32:05 -0000
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <dean2@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: (fractint) RE: [fractal-art] Immersive-visualization  Solutions

Paul wrote:


dd

>Maybe sly old gatesboy stuck an
>anti-djgpp directive in it to force developers to buy crummy Microsoft or
>crummier Borland products. I imagine ever since rsxntdj came out he's had
>nightmares about developers making programs for windows for free and
>spreading them for free and never buying (pun intended) into the modern
>Western $$$-cult at all.... the horror! Those joyriders ought to stick on
>the sinking ship (yeah, right Gates) of Linux where they belong!




>Well, Microsoft is managing to make even the steep-learning-curve,
>user-unfriendly, wizard-language speaking Linux popular by making Windows
>a) less and less popular and b) the only alternative... and other freeware
>OSes are in the works.... some written using gnu compilers.... Gates must
>feel like this IS a nightmare, everything spiraling down the drain, the
>center of the elitist money cult empire (not to mention Microsoft's market
>share) not holding, and everything he tries to clutch for himself slipping
>through his fingers...
>--
>   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
>-()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
>   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
>        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
>_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
>Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
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>Unsubscribe:    majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint"
>




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End of fractint-digest V1 #316
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