From: owner-fractint-digest@lists.xmission.com (fractint-digest) To: fractint-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: fractint-digest V1 #455 Reply-To: fractint-digest Sender: owner-fractint-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-fractint-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk fractint-digest Tuesday, March 14 2000 Volume 01 : Number 455 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 07:45:14 -0800 From: "Angela Wilczynski" Subject: Re: (fractint) Speed and precision in UF compared to Fractint Jon... I'm tempted to reply ....but in a non-technical way. I started using UF in September of last year...not so long ago. Two things I noticed almost immediately (1) use of colors had to be different in UF and (2) deep zooming was not really required to make an outstanding image. In fact....I don't really zoom all that much except to place my image where I want it. I attribute these differences to the fact that we are usually working with multiple layers in UF. Also, with the many coloring algorithms available (similar to the ones that could be built into the formulas of Fractint 19.6 and used by Damien and Paul Carlson), areas that initially look bland and unpromising can turn out very well. Angela aka wizzle Jon Noring wrote: > > <> > I also want to ask about the numerical precision (number of significant > digits) of UF compared to Fractint and how that affects things like zoom. > Fractint, for example, has a maximum zoom limit due to numerical precision. > Naively assuming that 32-bit operation should double the number of > significant digits for "single precision", I would gather UF shines here. > > Comments on these points? Do note that I am not knocking UF as a fractal > generator by claiming that calculation speed is the only thing important to > me. There are many good things about UF, including its color mapping/gradient > system. Now if UF had a "Divide and Conquer" utility like Fractint has, I > think UF will have arrived in my book. > > Jon Noring - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:48:03 -0700 From: Phil McRevis Subject: Re: (fractint) Speed and precision in UF compared to Fractint In article <200003131504.HAA22137@netcom.com>, Jon Noring writes: > Comments on these points? My only comment is that if you're asking UF questions and soliciting information on UF, please use the UF list and not the fractint list for that purpose. - -- Legalize Adulthood! ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol, at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT legalize@xmission.com - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:13:06 -0800 (PST) From: Jon Noring Subject: Re: (fractint) Speed and precision in UF compared to Fractint Phil McRevis wrote: >Jon Noring writes: >> Comments on these points? >My only comment is that if you're asking UF questions and soliciting >information on UF, please use the UF list and not the fractint list for >that purpose. Well, I understand your point, but I ask very specific questions that delve into Fractint as well -- in essence I am comparing them. I made one other post to UF that I did not cross-post here because it did not delve into Fractint in any significant way, and thus would be off-topic here. My cross-post here, I believe was very relevant. Even more so since the future of Fractint will be 32-bit, and UF is creating new expectations, and has some good ideas, that the future Fractint may have to adapt, such as the color mapping/gradient scheme. I assume that discussing the future of Fractint is on-topic to this list? So, back to my original post -- comments? Jon Noring - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:52:41 -0700 From: Xylen Subject: Re: (fractint) What's in a name? Tonton Th wrote: > > Andrew Coppin wrote: > > > > If you remove the integer math from FractInt, shouldn't it then be called > > FractReal? > > > > no, IMHO, the "int" will be for "international", so > if you drop integers, no need to change the name > Normally I don't respond to posts, but this one does raise a tiny question. I had always thought it meant 'internal' considering zooming into the innards of a fractal is so easy. Xylen - -- __^__ __^__ ( ___ )------------------------------( ___ ) | / | This message has been brought | \ | | / | to you by the language C and | \ | |___| the number F |___| (_____)------------------------------(_____) - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:29:36 +0100 From: "Ton Koppens" Subject: (fractint) some pars Hello list, Some things found this evening playing. Comments are welcome. Greetings, Ton ============================================================================ == 00031301 { ; CalcTime 0:01:55.29 at 800x600 on a P166 ; Image Copyright 13 Mar 2000 by Ton Koppens ; e-mail:t.koppens@hccnet.nl ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 8 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=_g.frm formulaname=GregsJuliaLB function=sin/sqr passes=1 center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/4.901961 params=0.7679677724539934/0.5938444166386914/1.724112674336985/0.3137455\ 366679892/0.1925107577745903/-0.1541032135990478 float=y maxiter=647 inside=startrail outside=imag decomp=128 biomorph=1 colors=400<3>H13K14O25<6>`MHbPJdSK<3>lcS<3>YRIVOFRKD<3>B62<5>HGCIIEJKG<2\ >MPLORNNQN<3>HMJGLIEKHDJGBHF<47>`eS`eSafTafTbgTchU<10>TZOSYNRXM<15>IOHHO\ HHNHHNG<9>CJECIEBID<3>AHDAHDAHDAHDAHD<3>CJFDKGEKHFLH<3>LQMMROOTP<3>WZWZ`\ Y`b`<3>kkinnlqqorqo<3>qpnppnpom<3>mmklljkji<2>igfheefcc<3>aXZ_VXZTV<3>SJ\ OQGMODJMBHK8FI5C<4>I8EI8EI9EIAEIAEIBF<5>IFGIGGIGGIHGIIG<2>KLJLNKMOLNQMOR\ N<3>SXRTYSV_U<5>`debega`c_WZ } 00031302 { ; CalcTime 0:00:18.62 at 800x600 on a P166 ; Image Copyright 13 Mar 2000 by Ton Koppens ; e-mail:t.koppens@hccnet.nl ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 8 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=_g.frm formulaname=GregsJuliaLB function=sin/sqr center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/4.901961 params=0.1441084017456588/0.1204412976470229/0.8471938230536821/-0.16844\ 69130527665/0.988982818079165/1.371883297219764 float=y maxiter=647 inside=atan outside=atan decomp=256 biomorph=1 colors=tlqUVJQRE<2>GD0<3>UOFYQI_RK<4>k`Xmb_pda<3>zll<8>dNKbKH_HE<3>Q50<3\ >WF8YIAZKC<9>jcSkeUmgW<3>rob<12>TOIRMGPJE<2>JD9GA7D74<2>IEBKHDJGC<3>HEBG\ DAFDA<3>B97A86975<3>432221110000000000<2>221332533<3>A86B97DA8<3>KFCMHDO\ IEQKFRMHSMH<8>la_ncapdc<3>zll<9>aNJZKGXHD<3>M60<6>bUOeXSg`V<3>qnhwpu<3>g\ TXcNRZHK<3>G67C33700<3>OENSISWLY<2>hWnhWn<3>iYojZoj_o<6>ogrpispjs<4>uqvv\ swwux<2>yyyzzzyyy<3>xxxwwxwwx<4>tsusrurrt<6>mkplkokjojinihmhfmigmnkqsouy\ zt<6>YZO } 00031303 { ; CalcTime 0:01:23.26 at 800x600 on a P166 ; Image Copyright 13 Mar 2000 by Ton Koppens ; e-mail:t.koppens@hccnet.nl ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 8 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=_g.frm formulaname=GregsMandelP3 function=sin/sqr passes=1 center-mag=-0.425532/-0.200334/4.901961 params=1/0.5/1/0.5/1/0.5 float=y maxiter=647 inside=bof60 outside=imag decomp=256 biomorph=1 colors=000bTo<7>VJkUIjTGj<2>QChPBhPCh<23>TmtTotTpu<3>Uww<43>6CR5BR5AQ49P\ 37O<33>114113112<2>000000111<2>444555444<14>O6EP6ER6F<3>W7IY8J_9K<3>hFSk\ GTmIV<3>wOb<3>nIXlHWjFU<3>`9O<39>76O66O66O<3>25N121121121xvy<21>cVo } 00031304 { ; CalcTime 0:01:38.15 at 800x600 on a P166 ; Image Copyright 13 Mar 2000 by Ton Koppens ; e-mail:t.koppens@hccnet.nl ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 8 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=_g.frm formulaname=GregsMandelP3 function=sin/sqr passes=1 center-mag=-0.425532/-0.200334/4.901961 params=0.6861171300393689/0.7144535660878323/1.409466841639454/0.1006653\ 035065767/1.349589526047548/-0.3188421277504807 float=y maxiter=647 inside=epsiloncross outside=imag decomp=256 biomorph=1 colors=hem7AG58E25B<3>76A86A96A<3>97E97F88H<2>98K97LA7MA6NB6O<7>F3YF2ZG2\ _G1`H1aI0c<43>705704603602601510<11>M9COADPAE<3>VEIWFIXHJ<20>seRtfRuhS<2\ >xkTzmUylU<24>XJ9WI8VG7<2>SD4QB3RC4<29>haYibZic_<3>lfc90AVSYdaiSQV`YdPNS\ XU_MKOSQVJHLOMRGFIKIMDCEGEHA9BBAC767768434323000<3>VQWbWcjbkrissjt<24>9B\ I } 00031305 { ; CalcTime 0:00:49.55 at 800x600 on a P166 ; Image Copyright 13 Mar 2000 by Ton Koppens ; e-mail:t.koppens@hccnet.nl ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 8 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=_g.frm formulaname=GregsMandelP3 function=sin/sqr passes=1 center-mag=-0.21663/-0.240505/5.921845 params=0.575273903622547/1.397457808160649/1.880001220740379/1.416684469\ 130528/1.360820337534715/0.3451796014282663 float=y maxiter=647 inside=period outside=imag decomp=256 biomorph=1 colors=000UIj<3>QChPBhPCh<23>TmtTotTpu<3>Uww<43>6CR5BR5AQ49P37O<33>11411\ 3112<2>000000111<2>444555444<14>O6EP6ER6F<3>W7IY8J_9K<3>hFSkGTmIV<3>wOb<\ 3>nIXlHWjFU<3>`9O<39>76O66O66O<3>25N121121121xvy<30>VJk } 00031306 { ; CalcTime 0:02:48.08 at 800x600 on a P166 ; Image Copyright 13 Mar 2000 by Ton Koppens ; e-mail:t.koppens@hccnet.nl ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 8 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=_g.frm formulaname=GregsMandelP3 function=sin/sqr passes=1 center-mag=-0.226212/-0.213441/6.142992 params=1.56129642628254/1.772011474959563/0.9198583941160314/0.923841059\ 602649/2.207983642078921/-0.4486373485518967 float=y maxiter=647 inside=bof60 outside=atan decomp=256 biomorph=1 colors=000UIj<3>QChPBhPCh<23>TmtTotTpu<3>Uww<43>6CR5BR5AQ49P37O<33>11411\ 3112<2>000000111<2>444555444<14>O6EP6ER6F<3>W7IY8J_9K<3>hFSkGTmIV<3>wOb<\ 3>nIXlHWjFU<3>`9O<39>76O66O66O<3>25N121121121xvy<30>VJk } 00031307 { ; CalcTime 0:07:55.38 at 800x600 on a P166 ; Image Copyright 13 Mar 2000 by Ton Koppens ; e-mail:t.koppens@hccnet.nl ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 8 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=_g.frm formulaname=GregsMandelP3 function=sin/sqr passes=t center-mag=-0.18655042677651150/-0.08245017094325222/61.42992 params=1.56129642628254/1.772011474959563/0.9198583941160314/0.923841059\ 602649/2.207983642078921/-0.4486373485518967 float=y maxiter=647 inside=bof60 outside=atan decomp=256 biomorph=1 colors=000UIj<3>QChPBhPCh<23>TmtTotTpu<3>Uww<43>6CR5BR5AQ49P37O<33>11411\ 3112<2>000000111<2>444555444<14>O6EP6ER6F<3>W7IY8J_9K<3>hFSkGTmIV<3>wOb<\ 3>nIXlHWjFU<3>`9O<39>76O66O66O<3>25N121121121xvy<30>VJk } - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:02:58 EST From: RParracho@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) some pars Ton, could you please post the formulas for your pars. Does this mean i don't have the latest orgform? Is it somewhere other than the spanky fractint page? thanks. - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:19:45 EST From: RParracho@aol.com Subject: (fractint) latest orgform My orgform files are dated 10-09-99 is there a more current version - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:51:45 +0000 From: "Pedro A. O. Lopes" Subject: Re: (fractint) Speed and precision in UF compared to Fractint Jon Noring wrote: > > Hello, > > This is my second post to come up to speed with UltraFractal. > > I noticed while playing around with UF on some Fractint pars that UF is > somewhat slower (appr. 50%) than Fractint. This surprised me, since I > assumed 32-bit would run a little faster than 16-bit on the newer Pentiums, > which are optimized for 32-bit operation. I guess the Windows 95/98 GUI > overhead slows things down, or that UF has some other things that slow it > down vis-a-vis Fractint. (Note that I specified floating-point in my > Fractint pars so this difference in speed is not due to comparing floating- > point with integer calcuations. Of course, I could still be comparing apples > and oranges in other ways, so those here who are expert on this topic feel > free to chime in and clarify matters.) > > I also want to ask about the numerical precision (number of significant > digits) of UF compared to Fractint and how that affects things like zoom. > Fractint, for example, has a maximum zoom limit due to numerical precision. > Naively assuming that 32-bit operation should double the number of > significant digits for "single precision", I would gather UF shines here. Actually, 16 and 32-bit refer to integer sizes. The numerical precision depends instead on the floating point format used, which can be either 64 or 80-bit. IIRC fractint uses 64-bit and UF uses 80-bit, which allows it to zoom a little further (there was a post about this a short while back?) In this context 16-bit vs. 32-bit really just means DOS-based vs. Windows-based programs. Since the hard work is mostly crunching real numbers, fractint is not greatly affected for being 16-bit code. In the end the big differences in performance (one way or the other) are most likely to come from the algorithms used - that is probably why you found fractint is faster for some fractals. Unless I got it all wrong :) - -Pedro - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:54:33 EST From: RParracho@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) fractal file losses Thanks to all who have offered links and files. - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:57:01 -0500 From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." Subject: Re: (fractint) What's in a name? > > > If you remove the integer math from FractInt, shouldn't it then be called > > > FractReal? > > > > > > > no, IMHO, the "int" will be for "international", so > > if you drop integers, no need to change the name > > > > Normally I don't respond to posts, but this one does raise a > tiny question. I had always thought it meant 'internal' considering > zooming into the innards of a fractal is so easy. But the inside of the most commonly-known fractal, the Mandelbrot set, is black -- which brings me to my point: a long time ago, I thought the name was actually FracTint, referring to its ability to produce nicely-colored fractals. (Remember, DOS was mono-case!) The "int" was most definitely for "integer". I propose that the name should change from FractInt to FracTint if it's not going to do integer math any longer. And there is a precedent for calling a product by a name other than the one chosen by its inventor: pronouncing GIF as "jif", as Compuserve would have us do, is just stupid. I certainly didn't change when I found out that was what they wanted, nor did most people I know. OK, I'll go back to lurking now. But think it over! - -- "I'd rather have my country die for me." --Grace Slick, 'rejoyce' - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:07:53 -0500 From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) What's in a name? Jim, - And there is a precedent for calling a product by a name other than - the one chosen by its inventor: pronouncing GIF as "jif", as - Compuserve would have us do, is just stupid. I certainly didn't - change when I found out that was what they wanted, nor did most - people I know. (smile) We actually have people in our office who are adamant about one or the other pronunciation. Which, since we do web sites, pops up rather a lot. :) I don't think a substantial name change is going to happen any time soon--after all, Tim just got through registering fractint.org. Damien M. Jones \\ dmj@fractalus.com \\ Fractalus Galleries & Info: \\ http://www.fractalus.com/ Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or in a newsgroup. Thank you. - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:45:26 -0600 From: Tim Wegner Subject: Re: (fractint) 20.0.9 available Ok, ftp.fractint.org is up. I have reorganized things a little. fradev.zip is now a link to the current developer version executable. Right now it is a link to fradev20.0.9.zip. I have applied the latest source patches to xfractint also. We are going to abandon the xfractint version numbering and just have one version number with DOS and X versions. The file naming reflects this, but we haven't fixed the Xfractint screen yet - it still thinks it is 3.11. Tim Here is the current contents of ftp.fractint.org. 2000p01.zip Source diff file 2000 patch 01 2000p02.zip Source diff file 2000 patch 02 2000p03.zip Source diff file 2000 patch 03 2000p04.zip Source diff file 2000 patch 04 2000p05.zip Source diff file 2000 patch 05 2000p06.zip Source diff file 2000 patch 06 2000p07.zip Source diff file 2000 patch 07 2000p08.zip Source diff file 2000 patch 08 2000p09.zip Source diff file 2000 patch 09 fradev.zip Latest developer's executable (link> fradev20.0.8.zip DOS executable for 20.0.8 fradev20.0.9.zip DOS executable for 20.0.9 fradevfo.zip Latest DOS float-only exe (link) fradevfo20.0.9.zip DOS float-only exe 20.0.9 frain200.zip Fractint version 20.0 distribution package frasr200.zip Fractint version 20.0 source code index.txt This file. xfract20.0.8.zip Xfractint package version 20.0.8 xfract20.0.9.zip Xfractint package version 20.0.9 xfractint.zip Latest Xfractint (link) - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:55:44 -0600 From: "Scott D. Boyd" Subject: Re: (fractint) What's in a name? On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, you wrote: > Short daft question: > > If you remove the integer math from FractInt, shouldn't it then be called > FractReal? > Maybe it should be called "Fractfloat" (for floating-point fractal creation). The following is in response to several other posters as to what the "int" in Fractint stood for: Don't quote me on this, but I think I remember reading in a Fractint book about 10 years ago that the "int" in Fractint *does* relate to the fact that the program creates fractals so quickly using integer math. Which was really fantastic then, considering that 80386's and slower 80286's were prevalent at the time. Any one in the Stone Soup Group want to correct me or substantiate this? Scott D. Boyd -- email: sdboyd@fastlane.net http://www.fastlane.net/~sdboyd/ Introducing -- Windows 2000 !! -- Now with only 65,000 bugs !! - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:29:33 -0500 From: Mike Traynor Subject: Re: (fractint) What's in a name? > > Short daft question: > > > > If you remove the integer math from FractInt, shouldn't it then be called > > FractReal? Considering that many of us are sporting names that no longer have any direct meaning or convey accurate information about us (how many "Wrights" are?), I don't see why anyone would balk for a moment at fractint retaining its historic name. Mike - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 01:11:48 -0500 From: BILL RAY Subject: Re: (fractint) Speed and precision in UF compared to Fractint Not of reasonableness here - how would you expect anyone discussing BOTH Fractint and UF and COMPARING THE TWO, as the writer was, to confine his thoughts to ONLY the UF list? Would it really KILL anyone to entertain his question, which is pertinent to Fractint? C'mon, don't be so tightassed. Jon Noring wrote: > Phil McRevis wrote: > >Jon Noring writes: > > >> Comments on these points? > > >My only comment is that if you're asking UF questions and soliciting > >information on UF, please use the UF list and not the fractint list for > >that purpose. > > Well, I understand your point, but I ask very specific questions that delve > into Fractint as well -- in essence I am comparing them. I made one other > post to UF that I did not cross-post here because it did not delve into > Fractint in any significant way, and thus would be off-topic here. > > My cross-post here, I believe was very relevant. Even more so since the > future of Fractint will be 32-bit, and UF is creating new expectations, and > has some good ideas, that the future Fractint may have to adapt, such as the > color mapping/gradient scheme. I assume that discussing the future of > Fractint is on-topic to this list? > > So, back to my original post -- comments? > > Jon Noring > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 02:14:21 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD, 14-03-00 (Fractal Landscape [7]) (c) FOTD -- March 14, 2000 (Rating 7) Fractal enthusiasts and visionaries: Today's single layer fractal rates a seven, which is above average on my 0 to 10 scale of fractal worthiness. I mention that the image consists of a single layer because I am occasionally asked why I never create fractals with more than one layer. After all, a multi-layered fractal is like polyphonic music, where different but harmonious melodies blend together into a single pleasing artistic whole. Well, my best answer is that I don't do multi-layered fractals for the same reason that, while standing at the rim of the Grand Canyon, one would not wear spectacles that distorted the view. I enjoy fractals for what they are -- visible representations of the always surprising things that numbers can do. Multiple layers distort the view. My eyes do not blend different images as well as my ears blend different melodic lines. I must not be alone, as most music is polyphonic, while most traditional fine art consists of a single image. Of course, times are changing, and this single image art could be due to the relative difficulty until now of overlaying different images by eye and hand alone. It could all change now that computers enable us to overlay as many images as we wish with relative ease. After all, there was a time many centuries ago when music was monophonic, but that changed. It will be interesting to see the course visual art takes as we move further into the age of computers. Another reason I avoid multiple layers is because of my nature. I am a bit old fashioned. I am also an individualist who tends to avoid things when they become trendy, as multiple layered fractals have. Such things have a tendency to ultimately exhaust themselves. Disco music and CB radio are two examples that immediately come to mind. Only time will tell if the current interest in multi-layered fractals is a passing fad or here to stay. (I suspect it will slacken but never die completely.) But time told nothing today, for it took over an hour to find today's single-layer FOTD, which I have named "Fractal Landscape". The whimsical formula behind the image is 10Z^(-1.4142)-0.1Z^(1.4142)+C. When I look at the intricate detail in this single layer, I can hardly imagine obscuring it with unnecessary layers. The parameter file takes 8 minutes to render, long enough to make all but the most patient fractalists run to Usenet at: or to the WWW at: and download the completed image file from there. The fractal weather today was partly cloudy and chilly. The temperature of 48F (9C) was too cool fot the cats, who passed the day by the source of heat. I'm in the act of recharging my philosophical batteries, so we have no further philosophy this evening. But tomorrow's FOTD is only 24 hours away, and anything could happen. Until then, take care, and the best is always yet to come. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Fractal_Landscape { ; time=0:07:57.92 SF5 on a p200 ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 8 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=ident passes=1 center-mag=-0.64776480072053690/+0.00455049699312394\ /1117246/1/-87.499 params=10/-1.4142/-0.1/1.4142/0/0 float=y maxiter=1400 bailout=25 inside=0 logmap=132 symmetry=none periodicity=10 colors=000N8FK8FM8FQ8FQ8EW8EU8E`8EN9EcAEdBEfCCeFEfIG\ fLIiRFfNJdJNbFRZDT<6>iCWkCWmCX<3>sCYu9_<12>obModLnfK\ <3>moG<3>TZ9OU8JQ6<2>3D1<14>IF8JF8KF8<3>OFAME9<5>`GC\ bHDeHD<2>lIFnIFnKHnMJ<3>fYZd`bg`b<3>pZarZ`tY`vY`zX_<\ 8>i`cg`cfad<3>ZbefYo<2>IlN<3>KmPLmPLmQMmQMmQ<2>orBzw\ 6rmCzmIgaN<3>MEiH8nK9o<8>fEohFokGo<3>uIozCywIotOfqUY\ lYSnZP<3>v3F<7>mL_lNakPd<2>hWkgYnhZs<14>N_LM_IL_G<3>\ F_7D`1<5>FfKFgNGhQGiTGjWGkZ<3>JoeJpgKqh<3>MuoNvv<3>L\ z`LzWLzR<2>KzBFz4<4>azB<3>TzC } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:29:00 GET From: "Tony \(Anthony\) Hanmer" Subject: Re: (fractint) Tracing l-systems - clarification I'll try again. Sorry for the confusion, I think i didn't explain myself properly about L-systems being converted into vector files. If you render a vector file of anything, and enlarge it, there will be no "jaggies" in diagonal lines. In this sense, to the limits of screen and printer resolution, and of human perception, I suppose the reproduction is perfect enough, even if not "actually" perfect. Close enough. So if you render an L-system as a vector file (either directly from the original programme, which was what my original question was about, or by tracing the saved bitmap), and then enlarge that vector file, it will keep the same detail regardless of size. SO, is there anything out there which can do this - take an L-system and render it directly as an .ai or .eps or other vector file? If not, an acceptable (though less likely) alternative would be a tracing programme which you could constrain to certain angles and their multiples and to certain line lengths and their multiples. I'm asking all this because I'm deep into the production of a set of fonts made from L-systems... shh, don't tell... and I want to be able to reproduce them as vectors, not bitmaps. They need to be fairly low-order things, because higher orders and their finer details would just smudge out in small letter sizes. And I want to be able to blow them up to bigger sizes, as well. Tony Hanmer Tbilisi, Georgia ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 01:52:12 -0600 From: "Paul N. Lee" Subject: Re: (fractint) Tracing l-systems - clarification Tony (Anthony) Hanmer wrote: > > So if you render an L-system as a vector file > (either directly from the original programme, > which was what my original question was about, > or by tracing the saved bitmap), and then > enlarge that vector file, it will keep the same > detail regardless of size. > > SO, is there anything out there which can do > this - take an L-system and render it directly > as an .ai or .eps or other vector file? Adobe Streamline 4.0 http://www.adobe.com/products/streamline/main.html P.N.L. - -------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:26:30 +0100 From: Tonton Th Subject: Re: (fractint) What's in a name? Xylen wrote: > > tiny question. I had always thought it meant 'internal' considering > zooming into the innards of a fractal is so easy. > very good explanation. - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:02:26 -1000 From: "David Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Speed and precision in UF compared to Fractint Windows9x is still basically 16-bit with some 32-bit elements. You need a real 32-bit OS like Linux or NT for 32-bit-optimized processors. On 13 Mar 00 at 7:04, Jon Noring wrote: > I noticed while playing around with UF on some Fractint > pars that UF is somewhat slower (appr. 50%) than > Fractint. This surprised me, since I assumed 32-bit > would run a little faster than 16-bit on the newer > Pentiums, which are optimized for 32-bit operation. I > guess the Windows 95/98 GUI overhead slows things down, > or that UF has some other things that slow it down > vis-a-vis Fractint. (Note that I specified > floating-point in my Fractint pars so this difference in > speed is not due to comparing floating- point with > integer calcuations. Of course, I could still be > comparing apples and oranges in other ways, so those > here who are expert on this topic feel free to chime in > and clarify matters.) Another blast of bits from David http://home.hawaii.rr.com/aliasjj/ http://www.hawastsoc.org/ For the best Hawaii & Pacific Basin surf forecast: http://www.surfreporthawaii.com Random Thought for this Nanosecond Of course I talk to myself! There's no one else around right now!! (D.Jones) - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:30:24 GMT From: "Rupert Millard" Subject: Re: (fractint) What's in a name? > > > Short daft question: > > > > > > If you remove the integer math from FractInt, shouldn't it then > > > >be called FractReal? > >Considering that many of us are sporting names that no longer have >any >direct meaning or convey accurate information about us (how many >"Wrights" >are?), I don't see why anyone would balk for a moment at >fractint >retaining its historic name. > >Mike I agree with Mike, it is a very daft question. Rupert Millard ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:14:49 +0100 From: Guy Marson Subject: (fractint) little animation - --=====================_953032489==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, ok, ok, here is a .zip of the requested files.. copy the unzipped files into your Fractint.dir und run the batches.. the minilake.bat generates only 55 frames, while the lakefilm.bat does about 308 frames. About DTA.EXE: I got no homepage.. so if one need the DTA.EXE let me know (it is much too large to attach it here). About the Batch-generating Program: It's a modification of the freeware Fractfly.exe from Josh Lannin, not ready to be distributed in its modificated release.. Mabe in 2-3 months.. I hope this helps ya .. have fun.. 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