From: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com (glencook-fans-digest) To: glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: glencook-fans-digest V1 #275 Reply-To: glencook-fans-digest Sender: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk glencook-fans-digest Tuesday, January 27 2004 Volume 01 : Number 275 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:10:24 -0500 From: "Jay Corell" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company RPG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C3E448.6F19DCD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's chronological. The first compiliation contains the first 3 books = in the series, the next contains the next 3. Pretty much the only = Garrett book left that's not currently in publication is Deadly = Quicksilver Lies. (just got this used... liked it) Anyone know where you can find cheap Dread Empire novels? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: BHardy1968@aol.com=20 To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:11 AM Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company RPG In a message dated 1/22/2004 9:08:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, = jcorell@charter.net writes: Well, the list seems to have been pretty dead for some time. Tends = to happen between publications. In other news: the Sci Fi Book Club now sells compilations of the = first 6 Garret novels. Two hardcover books, 3 novels per hardcover. VERY = much worth picking up. I had to buy most of mine from used book dealers. When I bought the first compilation, The Garret Files, from half.com, = I enjoyed it a lot. What's the second called? Garret Files 2? Also, = which books does it include? Thanks. B. - ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C3E448.6F19DCD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It's chronological. The first = compiliation=20 contains the first 3 books in the series, the next contains the = next=20 3. Pretty much the only Garrett book left that's not currently in=20 publication is Deadly Quicksilver Lies. (just got this used... = liked=20 it)

Anyone know where you can find cheap = Dread Empire=20 novels?

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 BHardy1968@aol.com

To: glencook-fans@lists.xmis= sion.com=20

Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 = 8:11=20 AM

Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) = Black=20 Company RPG

In a message dated 1/22/2004 = 9:08:15 PM Pacific=20 Standard Time, jcorell@charter.net=20 writes:

Well, the list seems to have been pretty dead for = some=20 time. Tends to
happen between publications.

In other = news: the Sci Fi Book Club now sells compilations of the first = 6
Garret novels. Two hardcover books, 3 novels per=20 hardcover. VERY much
worth picking up. I had to buy = most of=20 mine from used book dealers.

When I = bought the=20 first compilation, The Garret Files, from half.com, I enjoyed it a = lot. What's=20 the second called? Garret Files 2? Also, which books does it=20 include?
Thanks.
B. - ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C3E448.6F19DCD0-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:39:34 -0500 (EST) From: Craig Dutton Subject: (glencook-fans) Finding Cook books cheap... --- Jay Corell wrote: > It's chronological. The first compiliation contains the first 3 books in the > series, the next contains the next 3. Pretty much the only Garrett book > left that's not currently in publication is Deadly Quicksilver Lies. (just > got this used... liked it) > > Anyone know where you can find cheap Dread Empire novels? No Dread Empire, but Seaside book & stamp (www.seasidebs.com) (a bookstore local to me) has Heirs of Babylon and Tower of fear both at $2US, and some other stuff. They sometimes have Dread Empire, but it is hit or miss. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BHardy1968@aol.com > To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:11 AM > Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company RPG > > > In a message dated 1/22/2004 9:08:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, > jcorell@charter.net writes: > > > Well, the list seems to have been pretty dead for some time. Tends to > happen between publications. > > In other news: the Sci Fi Book Club now sells compilations of the first > 6 > Garret novels. Two hardcover books, 3 novels per hardcover. VERY much > worth picking up. I had to buy most of mine from used book dealers. > > > > > > When I bought the first compilation, The Garret Files, from half.com, I > enjoyed it a lot. What's the second called? Garret Files 2? Also, which books > does it include? > Thanks. > B. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:30:23 -0600 From: Greg Morrow Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company RPG Fraser Ronald wondered aloud to the group: >I actually hope that they go with a fantasy version of d20 Modern >which--in my opinion--is a more adaptable system than simple Dungeons and >Dragons (or d20). I have the opposite reaction. Or, rather, they're equally as modular, but D&D's modular components are more complete. This is natural, because D&D can focus more narrowly, whereas d20 Modern has to cover a wider array of genres and consequently does so more cursorily. To the extent that you can re-use D&D's modular components, you have more of your job done than with d20 Modern. I wrote the rules for a fantasy western setting ("Cowboys & Dragons") in D&D in about two weeks because I could re-use most of D&D. If I tried to do that in d20 Modern, I'd've had to write a lot more, like professions, talents, and advanced classes. Of course, if what you want is to write all your own modular components, then it doesn't matter as much which system you start from. I also find D&D to be a better rules system in general. I, personally, don't like d20 Modern's basic classes at all, and, given a class system, obligatory multiclassing also doesn't thrill me. The Wealth system is only useful in an economy of abundance, which makes d20 Modern particularly unsuitable to, say, Gamma World or a medieval fantasy game. The firearm rules are basically nonsense--compare shotguns and sawed-off shotguns, for example, or the fact that you have to burn one or more feats to use firearms. As for adapting Black Company to d20, I'd start with D&D and wrench the magic system around, but that's about it. No divine spellcasters, of course. I even disagree with Steve Harris about the magic item creation rules--there's no reason in the world that you can't keep pumping gold and xp into an item to make it better and do so over the course of years. Tack on the epic spell rules from the Epic Level Handbook (especially now that they're in the SRD) and you've got the range to cover from Lady to One-Eye. Tack on a rule allowing a non-epic spellcaster to create epic magic items under the tutelage of an epic spellcaster, and you're done. - -- "Gee, I really loved reading about Alan Scott, the first Green Lantern. I just love those old stories. Boy, if I get a chance to write Alan, I'm going to do him right! I'm going to make him an ineffective guilt-ridden neurotic!" - --Frothing-at-the-Mouth Lad, on James Robinson's GOLDEN AGE mailto:Dr.Elmo@whiterose.org http://www.whiterose.org/dr.elmo/blog/ ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:41:13 EST From: Axemaster2001@aol.com Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company RPG - --part1_c0.3e8a046.2d480ac9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/27/04 10:36:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, dr.elmo@whiterose.org writes: I too see the ease with which you could use the normal D&D D20 rules set. No where in any rules set does it say that you always have to use every rule. Thats the joy of additional feats, skills, etc, As for no divine spell casters, I dont see the reason for that. All you would need is a world where divine spell casters are few and far between. If you read the Silver Spike, mention is made of all the spell casters descending on the town in search of the spike. The difference between a book and a world is that description can be used to change your perception. Silent for example is never described as "a wizard with a feat so he doesnt need to speak" - he is described differently, but the rule is the same. Its all about how you play. Spells might be rare because there are no Magic Colleges (something ive always had a distaste for) and spells have to be researched, or traded (which was how I was introduced to spell casting when i first started playing in 78) - ala Silent casting the spell he was taught in book 2. anyway....i still think with just minor storytelling changes, you could easily make a BC world.... > > I have the opposite reaction. Or, rather, they're equally as modular, but > D&D's modular components are more complete. This is natural, because D&D > can focus more narrowly, whereas d20 Modern has to cover a wider array of > genres and consequently does so more cursorily. To the extent that you can > re-use D&D's modular components, you have more of your job done than with > d20 Modern. I wrote the rules for a fantasy western setting ("Cowboys & > Dragons") in D&D in about two weeks because I could re-use most of D&D. If > I tried to do that in d20 Modern, I'd've had to write a lot more, like > professions, talents, and advanced classes. > > Of course, if what you want is to write all your own modular components, > then it doesn't matter as much which system you start from. > > I also find D&D to be a better rules system in general. I, personally, > don't like d20 Modern's basic classes at all, and, given a class system, > obligatory multiclassing also doesn't thrill me. The Wealth system is only > useful in an economy of abundance, which makes d20 Modern particularly > unsuitable to, say, Gamma World or a medieval fantasy game. The firearm > rules are basically nonsense--compare shotguns and sawed-off shotguns, for > example, or the fact that you have to burn one or more feats to use > firearms. > > As for adapting Black Company to d20, I'd start with D&D and wrench the > magic system around, but that's about it. No divine spellcasters, of > course. > > I even disagree with Steve Harris about the magic item creation > rules--there's no reason in the world that you can't keep pumping gold and > xp into an item to make it better and do so over the course of years. Tack > on the epic spell rules from the Epic Level Handbook (especially now that > they're in the SRD) and you've got the range to cover from Lady to > One-Eye. Tack on a rule allowing a non-epic spellcaster to create epic > magic items under the tutelage of an epic spellcaster, and you're done. > -- > Axemaster 65 Cleric Lilaxe 65 Warrior - --part1_c0.3e8a046.2d480ac9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 1/27/04 10:36:= 44 AM Eastern Standard Time, dr.elmo@whiterose.org writes:

I too see the ease with which you could use the normal D&D D20 rules set= . No where in any rules set does it say that you always have to use every ru= le. Thats the joy of additional feats, skills, etc,

As for no divine spell casters, I dont see the reason for that. All you woul= d need is a world where divine spell casters are few and far between. If you= read the Silver Spike, mention is made of all the spell casters descending=20= on the town in search of the spike. The difference between a book and a worl= d is that description can be used to change your perception. Silent for exam= ple is never described as "a wizard with a feat so he doesnt need to speak"=20= - - he is described differently, but the rule is the same. Its all about how y= ou play. Spells might be rare because there are no Magic Colleges (something= ive always had a distaste for) and spells have to be researched, or traded=20= (which was how I was introduced to spell casting when i first started playin= g in 78) - ala Silent casting the spell he was taught in book 2.

anyway....i still think with just minor storytelling changes, you could easi= ly make a BC world....

I have the opposite reaction. Or, rather, they're equally as modular,=20= but
D&D's modular components are more complete. This is natural, becau= se D&D
can focus more narrowly, whereas d20 Modern has to cover a wider array of genres and consequently does so more cursorily. To the extent that you= can
re-use D&D's modular components, you have more of your job done than wit= h
d20 Modern. I wrote the rules for a fantasy western setting ("Cowboys &<= BR> Dragons") in D&D in about two weeks because I could re-use most of D&= ;D. If
I tried to do that in d20 Modern, I'd've had to write a lot more, like
professions, talents, and advanced classes.

Of course, if what you want is to write all your own modular components, then it doesn't matter as much which system you start from.

I also find D&D to be a better rules system in general. I, persona= lly,
don't like d20 Modern's basic classes at all, and, given a class system, obligatory multiclassing also doesn't thrill me. The Wealth system is=20= only
useful in an economy of abundance, which makes d20 Modern particularly
unsuitable to, say, Gamma World or a medieval fantasy game. The firear= m
rules are basically nonsense--compare shotguns and sawed-off shotguns, for <= BR> example, or the fact that you have to burn one or more feats to use firearms= .

As for adapting Black Company to d20, I'd start with D&D and wrench the=20=
magic system around, but that's about it. No divine spellcasters, of c= ourse.

I even disagree with Steve Harris about the magic item creation
rules--there's no reason in the world that you can't keep pumping gold and <= BR> xp into an item to make it better and do so over the course of years. =20= Tack
on the epic spell rules from the Epic Level Handbook (especially now that they're in the SRD) and you've got the range to cover from Lady to
One-Eye. Tack on a rule allowing a non-epic spellcaster to create epic=
magic items under the tutelage of an epic spellcaster, and you're done.
- --

I ran into that same situation in my D&D game - 'magic college' or not?&= nbsp; If they don't exist, why not? Either there's no market (and does= n't the existence of the players create one?), or it's prohibited somehow (h= ard to justify), or nobody has chosen to do it (and the players will immedia= tely do so, and make chunks of money on it). A definite complication i= n a D&D game.

Pete

i would think a "magic college" would be too easy a target for evil NPCs or=20= even other worldly creatures....the way I was introduced to it, spells were=20= traded for other spells, and guarded very jealously. If you had somehow gott= en Fireball, would you really want every other magic user to have it? I reme= mber whole adventures around seeking out spells, and when a loot hoard had a= spell book in it, it was prized higher than the gold!

I just always got that feeling from the BC world. Magic was present, but you= had to go out of your way to learn it, or research and practice a spell to=20= learn it, and once learned you wouldnt just hand it out to everyone....

Axemaster= 65 Cleric
Lilaxe 65 Warrior

- --part1_146.213a8529.2d48330d_boundary-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:54:30 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Harris Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company RPG Elmo, You see promise in the d20 system for BC by invoking the Epic Rules (which I've not seen). I can imagine this might allow for more substantive creation of items, such as One-Eye's spear that is eventually used with good effect against a semi-deity, but that puts into play the question of whether the protagonists in BC--say, One-Eye, Lady, and the Croaker--are Epic Level characters in the sense of D'n'D: that is to say, are they legendary characters, individually capable of changing the shape of society on a large scale, characters who in another generation might well be recalled as demi-gods? That description obviously does apply to the Dominator and also the Lady before she lost her powers. But it's not clear to me that it applies quite fully even to the Taken, though maybe they're banging up right next to that level. But One-Eye? No, not at all; he's far below that level. Same for Croaker (before his transmogrification in "Soldiers Live"). What about Lady, i.e., not the Lady, but Lady after having met the White Rose? That's something of an interesting question: Just how powerful is Lady? Originally, she's viewed as having no power except her memory of the True Names of the Taken (which, somehow, she never puts to any use--nor does anyone seem anxious to mine her memory). Then she starts to "get back some power"--which, we eventually learn, is somehow siphoned off from the Kali figure (forgotten her name just now--is it Kali?), so that the two of them can use one another for their own purposes (and why does Kali want to use Lady? I'm not clear on that). Lady gets fairly good, too, especially with those hand-held "artillery pieces" that she has mass-produced. But does she ever get back up to the level of her sister, 'Catcher? I can't think now of any particular reason to say that she does; she seems important more for her force of personality (and experience administering a vast empire) than for her sorcery. But I'm not certain about that. Does Lady do anything anywhere near as Really Neat as, say, 'Catcher's running all over creation with her head tucked beneath her arm? Or 'Catcher's setting up of the trap that nabs all the important people in the Company? Anyone have any thoughts on this? So what I find captivating about the BC is the sense of people who, while far above ordinary, are not at all on the demi-god level (i.e., not Epic Level), none the less, by dint of lengthy preparations, clever use of their strengths and avoidance of their weaknesses, and knowing when the time is opportune to bring all their forces to bear, do actually end up having Epic-Level effects on the world about them: They take on a dreaming demi-god and make good their escape, making a profound change on the world about them. That's excitement! Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:54:50 -0800 (PST) From: Win Barker Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company RPG - --0-1109309186-1075240490=:70715 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Another interesting point about magic in BC is how it manifests itself. Remember in Shadows Linger, when Silent is throwing spells at the Black Castle, they look entirely different than those thrown by Lady...even though she taught him the spell. If I remember correctly, one looked like soap bubbles, the other like "a line scribbled by a child" Axemaster2001@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 1/27/04 2:08:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, PDMohney@aol.com writes: I ran into that same situation in my D&D game - 'magic college' or not? If they don't exist, why not? Either there's no market (and doesn't the existence of the players create one?), or it's prohibited somehow (hard to justify), or nobody has chosen to do it (and the players will immediately do so, and make chunks of money on it). A definite complication in a D&D game. Pete i would think a "magic college" would be too easy a target for evil NPCs or even other worldly creatures....the way I was introduced to it, spells were traded for other spells, and guarded very jealously. If you had somehow gotten Fireball, would you really want every other magic user to have it? I remember whole adventures around seeking out spells, and when a loot hoard had a spell book in it, it was prized higher than the gold! I just always got that feeling from the BC world. Magic was present, but you had to go out of your way to learn it, or research and practice a spell to learn it, and once learned you wouldnt just hand it out to everyone.... Axemaster 65 Cleric Lilaxe 65 Warrior - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! - --0-1109309186-1075240490=:70715 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Another interesting point about magic in BC is how it manifests itself. Remember in Shadows Linger, when Silent is throwing spells at the Black Castle, they look entirely different than those thrown by Lady...even though she taught him the spell. If I remember correctly, one looked like soap bubbles, the other like "a line scribbled by a child"

Axemaster2001@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 1/27/04 2:08:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, PDMohney@aol.com writes:

I ran into that same situation in my D&D game - 'magic college' or not? If they don't exist, why not? Either there's no market (and doesn't the existence of the players create one?), or it's prohibited somehow (hard to justify), or nobody has chosen to do it (and the players will immediately do so, and make chunks of money on it). A definite complication in a D&D game.

Pete

i would think a "magic college" would be too easy a target for evil NPCs or even other worldly creatures....the way I was introduced to it, spells were traded for other spells, and guarded very jealously. If you had somehow gotten Fireball, would you really want every other magic user to have it? I remember whole adventures around seeking out spells, and when a loot hoard had a spell book in it, it was prized higher than the gold!

I just always got that feeling from the BC world. Magic was present, but you had to go out of your way to learn it, or research and practice a spell to learn it, and once learned you wouldnt just hand it out to everyone....

Axemaster 65 Cleric
Lilaxe 65 Warrior

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! - --0-1109309186-1075240490=:70715-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:21:02 -0600 (CST) From: Changeling Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company RPG Um...those may not have been the same spell though. It stands to reason that Silent wouldn't be able to handle the more powerful spells since he didn't have the skill that Lady had. Figure it this way...One Eye explained that a minor magician can do the same thing a powerful one can do, it just takes a lot longer. So if Silent had been casting the same spell as Lady then it would have taken him much longer to prep the spell. We saw this a lot when Goblin was preparing spells way ahead of time to lay in wait for One Eye (the ropes he enchanted during the journey south). Lady in her prime could have enchanted those same ropes in a fraction of the time. - -Matthew On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Win Barker wrote: > Another interesting point about magic in BC is how it manifests itself. Remember in Shadows Linger, when Silent is throwing spells at the Black Castle, they look entirely different than those thrown by Lady...even though she taught him the spell. If I remember correctly, one looked like soap bubbles, the other like "a line scribbled by a child" > > Axemaster2001@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 1/27/04 2:08:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, PDMohney@aol.com writes: > > > I ran into that same situation in my D&D game - 'magic college' or not? If they don't exist, why not? Either there's no market (and doesn't the existence of the players create one?), or it's prohibited somehow (hard to justify), or nobody has chosen to do it (and the players will immediately do so, and make chunks of money on it). A definite complication in a D&D game. > > Pete > > > > i would think a "magic college" would be too easy a target for evil NPCs or even other worldly creatures....the way I was introduced to it, spells were traded for other spells, and guarded very jealously. If you had somehow gotten Fireball, would you really want every other magic user to have it? I remember whole adventures around seeking out spells, and when a loot hoard had a spell book in it, it was prized higher than the gold! > > I just always got that feeling from the BC world. Magic was present, but you had to go out of your way to learn it, or research and practice a spell to learn it, and once learned you wouldnt just hand it out to everyone.... > > > Axemaster 65 Cleric > Lilaxe 65 Warrior > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! ************************************************************************** * * * "It is good to find that one is in agreement with the gods." * * "Howso?" * * "It shows that the gods are wise." * * * ************************************************************************** ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------ End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #275 *********************************** ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit .