From: Frans Jurgens Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 01 Apr 1999 10:08:49 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1CAA2E98E9D03351CC8900EC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Besides being an expensive oil, you may want to check on the suitability of olive oil for wooden bowls. While living in Europe in the eighties, I read somewhere to avoid applying it in wooden vessels such as a salad bowl (naturally I forget the reason), and I have avoided doing so ever since. Frans Jurgens RR1LA@aol.com wrote: > ..don't forget Olive Oil. Been used for thousands of years, works great, > brings out the grain and adds a wonderful luster to the wood. YHS, Barney > Fife --------------1CAA2E98E9D03351CC8900EC Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="fjurgens.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Frans Jurgens Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="fjurgens.vcf" begin:vcard adr;dom:;;74 South Main St.;Canandaigua;NY;14424; n:Jurgens;Frans x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:High-Tech PR version:2.1 email;internet:fjurgens@frontiernet.net tel;fax:716-396-9553 tel;work:716-396-9850 x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Frans Jurgens end:vcard --------------1CAA2E98E9D03351CC8900EC-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron Chamberlain" Subject: MtMan-List: Canvas waterproofing Date: 01 Apr 1999 15:19:44 -0700 Hello the list: A local company here in ID has developed a canvas waterproofing that is water based. You mix a quart of "Outfitter's Tent Treatment" with 1 gal of water and use a sprayer to apply. I purchased some, about $14 a quart= 10' x 10' area coverage, but have not been out in the wet to test it yet. It does not dry completely tack free, so they suggest you dust it with talcum or unscented baby powder, otherwise the dust will stick to it. For information email: outfiter@srv.net Or call: 1-800-657-2644 URL= http://www.scenic-idaho.com/OutfittersPackStation/ No info on website about this product yet, but lots of other stuff, tents, horse and pack gear, etc: I am in no way connected to this company just providing info, so please contact them with any questions! Lonewolf ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Darilek Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtman list: wild horse training Date: 01 Apr 1999 17:17:13 -0600 Before we get off the horse subject, see: http://www.eqgroup.com/Library/coggins.htm Some may be unknowledgeable like me until I read this. Glenn Darilek Iron Burner ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Dearing Subject: MtMan-List: Re: carrying loaded guns Date: 01 Apr 1999 18:50:00 -0600 > > > >All good references which you provided as usual, however none of them tell if > >guns were carried loaded. What they did provide evidence for was, that after > >having been used one or more times, the guns were unloaded and cleaned at the > >end fo the day. This is totally different than carrying a loaded gun which > >has not been fired. Your one attic accident did show that they were left > >loaded, and the Indian incident showed that the load was left in the gun, but > >the priming was changed. If the guns were not carried in a loaded condition, it would not be necesary to draw the loads, and clean them, now would it. ;-) J.D. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "john c. funk,jr" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtman list: wild horse training Date: 01 Apr 1999 17:53:47 -0800 Glenn, Thanks for the web sight information. Read it with great interest. BLM routinely does a Coggins test on ALL animals captured and held for adoption. One of the reasons that horses and burros are held for 90 days before they're put up for adoption. Good information. John Funk -----Original Message----- >Before we get off the horse subject, see: > >http://www.eqgroup.com/Library/coggins.htm > >Some may be unknowledgeable like me until I read this. > >Glenn Darilek >Iron Burner > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: carrying loaded guns Date: 01 Apr 1999 21:25:07 -0800 John Dearing wrote: > If the guns were not carried in a loaded condition, it would not be necesary to > draw the loads, and clean them, now would it. ;-) J.D. John, Aren't we missing the point here? Were guns carried loaded for an extended period of time? I thought that was the question. In practice, I will carry my rifle/smoothy loaded for a few days while hunting provided I don't shoot it. If I shoot it I will pull or shoot out the last load at the end of the day, clean and reload in the evening or morning. There is a difference there. The difference is in whether the gun is carried loaded all day and the load pulled in the evening or whether the gun is loaded and left that way for several days before pulling the load. The reason for the different practices may be whether the gun is shot or not. I remain...... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Original Hawken Date: 02 Apr 1999 00:41:30 EST I have been asked to look into the going prices of an original Hakwen rifle in fairly good condition. Anyone have an idea what outrageous prices a Hawken is bringing these days? Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Original Hawken Date: 02 Apr 1999 02:42:00 EST whose Hawken are you speaking of?????? I know most of them out there---I have originals myself---don steath has 2 kip rap has 3 and the hawkins shop in wa state has some but questionable as to being originals--ed white has one chuck pengry has one but it is not totally original--there is 5 or 6 in the museum in st louis there is one in helena montana (the briger gun) there is one that was owned by orval dunham family, there is the kit carson gun, there is a couple that was in the leonord collection, there is one owned by dawson, there is the madena rifle, there is one in the colorado historical museum, 2 in smithsonian, there is one or more in the lour collection, there is one owned by peterson, and about 5 or 6 more out there that are validated to be original---be wary---lot of fakes out ther---most people that own them if they are documented don't want to sell them and if something happens to them they are willed to someone or to a museum as such---there was also one that was in croften nebraska don't remember the owners name and one that was in california---andy fauntree i thank could expand on the one that was in california---I believe he held and fondled it one time or another don't know if it can be traced and validated as original---there is also one or more in the davis collection in clarimore oklahoma if i remember correctly---Ed white in alaska had some barrels that he found in alaska that were stamped hawkens---don't know what ever happened to them---said that were made into mining chizzles---or that is the way the story goes---might also check with don king ---he has held and fondled a few of them if i am not mistaken bill large had the original stamp at one time and believe he popped a couple of barrels with the original stamp---those were sent to the st louis area---?????? long story there for sure---watch out for cherry corners parts---or slant breaches that don't have the proper angle-or triggers with any markings on them--hawkens only used one specific angle for his slant breach's---hawkens also made a few squirrel rifles---don steith has one with brass furniture and stamped not the standard hawkens trigger guard---or butt plate there are also several William Hawkens flint guns out there---father of jake and sam---all three of them worked at harpers ferry at one time or another around 1790 to 1805---thus the contours of the hawkens being similar to the 1803 harpers ferry gun with a english sporting rifle butt and trigger guard--- Jake and sam combined the good features of the 1803 and the english sporting rifle and walla---the hawken rifle was made for the fur trade---only my impression but track the facts---you will come to that conclusion also---takes a lot of digging into a lot of documentation--- you can see a lot of the hawkens rifles in John beards books. 1. the hawkens rifle then mountain man's choice--isbn 0-912420-00-6 2. fifteen years in the hawkens lode isbn 0-912420-01-4 3. the plains rifle by hanson isbn 0-088227-015x 1978 the museum of the fur trade has a book or pamphlet out that shows pictures of a couple of them don't remember the name of the pamphlet or book got it around here somewhere but can lay my hand on it right now---hanson i believe owned one at one time but it was a but questionable that it was completely original--- the museum in st louis has several hawkiens, and gemner guns--these came from the hawkens and gemner familys and from a owner that lived in or around the st louis area and from a man in texas who donated one to the museum --- there is also several hawkens in england---2 in privet collections and a couple in the museum in london--these are not shown in most of the writings on hawkens NOTE: if you are planning on trying to buy one get the history of the gun---most that are around now days can be traced back a ways--- that its a fact---not just that they appeared out of nowhere or out of someone's attic---most people that own them will not put a price on them---I know i would not---got a offer to sell my half stock several years ago and i laughed at them---(darn good offer) my statement was they aint eating anything and not costing me nothing believe i need to keep um. mine has a place if anything ever happens to me--- there is several hawkens pistols out there also---most large caliber and used the same breach plug and tang as the rifle ---bent to form the pistol grip--ramrod was steel and had a swivel on it and was attached to the muzzle of the gun----good picture of this in beards book--- if you have any questions about hawkins give me a shout offline---I aint no expert but have fondled a few of them in my time---again---beware---lots of fakes or copies out there---today a good custom hawkens with good barrel, lock and fine to extra fine wood will bring from $1500 to $2,500 from a known maker---Bob Reeves who is dead made several outstanding copies he lived in lancaster california---most of the people who have bob's guns wont part with them for the above price--pappy biggs has a match pair one in 50 and one in 54 back in the early 60's and he gave over $600 for them from bob at that time--so you could probably multiply todays prices times ten or more and you would probably come somewhere close to what an appraised value for one would be if it is original---haven't seen many hawkens with straight grain wood except for full stocks and a couple or three half stocks---some of them are walnut but most were hard maple---not soft or sugar maple---look inside the lock and under the butplate and you will get a good hint as to their originality---also check around the nipple area for burn out or age---if they have a patch box which a couple of them had look inside the patch box---cant duplicate the age in ther---takes many years to get that effect---hard to fake---also the but plates on the early hawkens were made from 2 pieces of metal and brazed together--if it's early gun and doesn't have a brazed butplate it's a copy--- hope i have been some assistance to you even if i have meandered a lot----just think the original price was 25 to 50 dollars almost half a years wages at that time---small calibers were from 5 to 10 dollars according to some of the invoices that i have seen---some of the specials were even more---hoffman and cambell and another guy who worked in the hawkens shop did engravings on a couple of them---gemner also made and stamped a few hawkens---not all plains rifles---a couple of shotguns have been seen with a s hawkens stamp---but most died in the wool hawkens people thank they were faked at a later date to add value to a unmarked gun with a couple of hawkens characteristics--- "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 On Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:41:30 EST Casapy123@aol.com writes: >I have been asked to look into the going prices of an original Hakwen >rifle >in fairly good condition. Anyone have an idea what outrageous prices >a >Hawken is bringing these days? > >Jim > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laura Rugel Glise Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Original Hawken Date: 02 Apr 1999 05:58:11 +0000 Hawk Thoroughly enjoyed your post on original Hawkens. It is exactly why I subscribed to the list. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sean" Subject: MtMan-List: Copper Pots pix Date: 02 Apr 1999 08:56:05 -0500 My apologies.... I was sent a picture of nested copper pots to post on a page I did for the List, but no text came with it. I finally got it posted (LONG week at the office...) for those of you who want to check it out the address is: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Geyser/3216/HistList.htm This is a "closed" page for only those who are a member of this list... Addison Miller ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sean" Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: Copper Pots pix Date: 02 Apr 1999 08:56:59 -0500 My apologies.... I was sent a picture of nested copper pots to post on a page I did for the List, but no text came with it. I finally got it posted (LONG week at the office...) for those of you who want to check it out the address is: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Geyser/3216/HistList.htm This is a "closed" page for only those who are a member of this list... Addison Miller ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James A Lindberg Subject: MtMan-List: Dutch oven cooking show Date: 02 Apr 1999 08:26:58 -0600 I may have posted this before: The official name for the show is "Dutch Oven & Camp Cooking" and it is a production of KWSU media at PO Box 642530, Pullman, Washington 99164-2530. The NOLA Code that we here at PBS use to identify programs is "DUOC 101-108" and it feeds on Saturday mornings starting on March 27 (last week) for 8 weeks at I beleive 10am Central time. The host for this 8 part series is C.W. "Butch" Welch. The producers have given unlimited use rights and school re-record rights so you can record the program and show it. The companion cookbook is supposed to be available for purchase at $18.98 and a special video is also available for $19.95 or get both for $35.98 at 1-800-883-0124. The titles for the shows in the series are: #101 Down home catfish fry #102 Rosemary roast and more #103 Backwoods fast food #104 South of the border fiesta #105 Hearty backwoods Dutch oven breakfast #106 Aluminum foil dinners #107 Yankee chilli and the fixin's #108 Sourdough pancakes and more ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Original Hawken Date: 02 Apr 1999 10:00:23 -0500 That was a great posting. I learned more about Hawkens in a few moments of this essay than in all the books I have looked read. Thanks for the history of the gun. Glad you live in my state. Linda Holley hawknest4@juno.com wrote: > whose Hawken are you speaking of?????? I know most of them out > there---I have originals myself---don steath has 2 kip rap has 3 and the > hawkins shop in wa state has some but questionable as to being > originals--ed white has one chuck pengry has one but it is not totally > original--there is 5 or 6 in the museum in st louis there is one in ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Original Hawken Date: 02 Apr 1999 08:12:12 -0800 Michael, A few years ago when Charley was still at the Museum of the Fur Trade, there was an old Hawken on display. My father 25 years ago gave Charley a box of Hawken parts (lock, butt plate, triggers & guard, most of the screws, etc.) mainly missing the wood and a barrel - breech plug. This was a collection of parts from 2 or 3 junkers he had collected over the years before the Baird books, and most people weren't into broken arms. Maybe that's what the gun is at the museum, built from those parts ??? Buck On Thu, 01 April 1999, hawknest4@juno.com wrote: > > whose Hawken are you speaking of?????? I know most of them out > there---I have originals myself---don steath has 2 kip rap has 3 and the > hawkins shop in wa state has some but questionable as to being > originals--ed white has one chuck pengry has one but it is not totally > original--there is 5 or 6 in the museum in st louis there is one in > helena montana (the briger gun) there is one that was owned by orval > dunham family, there is the kit carson gun, there is a couple that was in > the leonord collection, there is one owned by dawson, there is the madena > rifle, there is one in the colorado historical museum, 2 in smithsonian, > there is one or more in the lour collection, there is one owned by > peterson, and about 5 or 6 more out there that are validated to be > original---be wary---lot of fakes out ther---most people that own them if > they are documented don't want to sell them and if something happens to > them they are willed to someone or to a museum as such---there was also > one that was in croften nebraska don't remember the owners name and one > that was in california---andy fauntree i thank could expand on the one > that was in california---I believe he held and fondled it one time or > another don't know if it can be traced and validated as original---there > is also one or more in the davis collection in clarimore oklahoma if i > remember correctly---Ed white in alaska had some barrels that he found in > alaska that were stamped hawkens---don't know what ever happened to > them---said that were made into mining chizzles---or that is the way the > story goes---might also check with don king ---he has held and fondled a > few of them if i am not mistaken > > bill large had the original stamp at one time and believe he popped a > couple of barrels with the original stamp---those were sent to the st > louis area---?????? long story there for sure---watch out for cherry > corners parts---or slant breaches that don't have the proper angle-or > triggers with any markings on them--hawkens only used one specific angle > for his slant breach's---hawkens also made a few squirrel rifles---don > steith has one with brass furniture and stamped not the standard hawkens > trigger guard---or butt plate > > there are also several William Hawkens flint guns out there---father of > jake and sam---all three of them worked at harpers ferry at one time or > another around 1790 to 1805---thus the contours of the hawkens being > similar to the 1803 harpers ferry gun with a english sporting rifle butt > and trigger guard--- > > Jake and sam combined the good features of the 1803 and the english > sporting rifle and walla---the hawken rifle was made for the fur > trade---only my impression but track the facts---you will come to that > conclusion also---takes a lot of digging into a lot of documentation--- > > you can see a lot of the hawkens rifles in John beards books. > > 1. the hawkens rifle then mountain man's choice--isbn 0-912420-00-6 > 2. fifteen years in the hawkens lode isbn 0-912420-01-4 > 3. the plains rifle by hanson isbn 0-088227-015x 1978 > > the museum of the fur trade has a book or pamphlet out that shows > pictures of a couple of them don't remember the name of the pamphlet or > book got it around here somewhere but can lay my hand on it right > now---hanson i believe owned one at one time but it was a but > questionable that it was completely original--- > > the museum in st louis has several hawkiens, and gemner guns--these came > from the hawkens and gemner familys and from a owner that lived in or > around the st louis area and from a man in texas who donated one to the > museum --- > there is also several hawkens in england---2 in privet collections and a > couple in the museum in london--these are not shown in most of the > writings on hawkens > > NOTE: if you are planning on trying to buy one get the history of the > gun---most that are around now days can be traced back a ways--- that its > a fact---not just that they appeared out of nowhere or out of someone's > attic---most people that own them will not put a price on them---I know i > would not---got a offer to sell my half stock several years ago and i > laughed at them---(darn good offer) my statement was they aint eating > anything and not costing me nothing believe i need to keep um. mine has > a place if anything ever happens to me--- > > there is several hawkens pistols out there also---most large caliber > and used the same breach plug and tang as the rifle ---bent to form the > pistol grip--ramrod was steel and had a swivel on it and was attached to > the muzzle of the gun----good picture of this in beards book--- > > if you have any questions about hawkins give me a shout offline---I aint > no expert but have fondled a few of them in my > time---again---beware---lots of fakes or copies out there---today a good > custom hawkens with good barrel, lock and fine to extra fine wood will > bring from $1500 to $2,500 from a known maker---Bob Reeves who is dead > made several outstanding copies he lived in lancaster california---most > of the people who have bob's guns wont part with them for the above > price--pappy biggs has a match pair one in 50 and one in 54 back in the > early 60's and he gave over $600 for them from bob at that time--so you > could probably multiply todays prices times ten or more and you would > probably come somewhere close to what an appraised value for one would be > if it is original---haven't seen many hawkens with straight grain wood > except for full stocks and a couple or three half stocks---some of them > are walnut but most were hard maple---not soft or sugar maple---look > inside the lock and under the butplate and you will get a good hint as to > their originality---also check around the nipple area for burn out or > age---if they have a patch box which a couple of them had look inside the > patch box---cant duplicate the age in ther---takes many years to get that > effect---hard to fake---also the but plates on the early hawkens were > made from 2 pieces of metal and brazed together--if it's early gun and > doesn't have a brazed butplate it's a copy--- > > hope i have been some assistance to you even if i have meandered a > lot----just think the original price was 25 to 50 dollars almost half a > years wages at that time---small calibers were from 5 to 10 dollars > according to some of the invoices that i have seen---some of the specials > were even more---hoffman and cambell and another guy who worked in the > hawkens shop did engravings on a couple of them---gemner also made and > stamped a few hawkens---not all plains rifles---a couple of shotguns have > been seen with a s hawkens stamp---but most died in the wool hawkens > people thank they were faked at a later date to add value to a unmarked > gun with a couple of hawkens characteristics--- > > "HAWK" > Michael pierce > 854 Glenfield Dr. > Palm Harbor Florida 34684 > E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 > > On Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:41:30 EST Casapy123@aol.com writes: > >I have been asked to look into the going prices of an original Hakwen > >rifle > >in fairly good condition. Anyone have an idea what outrageous prices > >a > >Hawken is bringing these days? > > > >Jim > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Original Hawken Date: 02 Apr 1999 08:12:12 -0800 Michael, A few years ago when Charley was still at the Museum of the Fur Trade, there was an old Hawken on display. My father 25 years ago gave Charley a box of Hawken parts (lock, butt plate, triggers & guard, most of the screws, etc.) mainly missing the wood and a barrel - breech plug. This was a collection of parts from 2 or 3 junkers he had collected over the years before the Baird books, and most people weren't into broken arms. Maybe that's what the gun is at the museum, built from those parts ??? Buck On Thu, 01 April 1999, hawknest4@juno.com wrote: > > whose Hawken are you speaking of?????? I know most of them out > there---I have originals myself---don steath has 2 kip rap has 3 and the > hawkins shop in wa state has some but questionable as to being > originals--ed white has one chuck pengry has one but it is not totally > original--there is 5 or 6 in the museum in st louis there is one in > helena montana (the briger gun) there is one that was owned by orval > dunham family, there is the kit carson gun, there is a couple that was in > the leonord collection, there is one owned by dawson, there is the madena > rifle, there is one in the colorado historical museum, 2 in smithsonian, > there is one or more in the lour collection, there is one owned by > peterson, and about 5 or 6 more out there that are validated to be > original---be wary---lot of fakes out ther---most people that own them if > they are documented don't want to sell them and if something happens to > them they are willed to someone or to a museum as such---there was also > one that was in croften nebraska don't remember the owners name and one > that was in california---andy fauntree i thank could expand on the one > that was in california---I believe he held and fondled it one time or > another don't know if it can be traced and validated as original---there > is also one or more in the davis collection in clarimore oklahoma if i > remember correctly---Ed white in alaska had some barrels that he found in > alaska that were stamped hawkens---don't know what ever happened to > them---said that were made into mining chizzles---or that is the way the > story goes---might also check with don king ---he has held and fondled a > few of them if i am not mistaken > > bill large had the original stamp at one time and believe he popped a > couple of barrels with the original stamp---those were sent to the st > louis area---?????? long story there for sure---watch out for cherry > corners parts---or slant breaches that don't have the proper angle-or > triggers with any markings on them--hawkens only used one specific angle > for his slant breach's---hawkens also made a few squirrel rifles---don > steith has one with brass furniture and stamped not the standard hawkens > trigger guard---or butt plate > > there are also several William Hawkens flint guns out there---father of > jake and sam---all three of them worked at harpers ferry at one time or > another around 1790 to 1805---thus the contours of the hawkens being > similar to the 1803 harpers ferry gun with a english sporting rifle butt > and trigger guard--- > > Jake and sam combined the good features of the 1803 and the english > sporting rifle and walla---the hawken rifle was made for the fur > trade---only my impression but track the facts---you will come to that > conclusion also---takes a lot of digging into a lot of documentation--- > > you can see a lot of the hawkens rifles in John beards books. > > 1. the hawkens rifle then mountain man's choice--isbn 0-912420-00-6 > 2. fifteen years in the hawkens lode isbn 0-912420-01-4 > 3. the plains rifle by hanson isbn 0-088227-015x 1978 > > the museum of the fur trade has a book or pamphlet out that shows > pictures of a couple of them don't remember the name of the pamphlet or > book got it around here somewhere but can lay my hand on it right > now---hanson i believe owned one at one time but it was a but > questionable that it was completely original--- > > the museum in st louis has several hawkiens, and gemner guns--these came > from the hawkens and gemner familys and from a owner that lived in or > around the st louis area and from a man in texas who donated one to the > museum --- > there is also several hawkens in england---2 in privet collections and a > couple in the museum in london--these are not shown in most of the > writings on hawkens > > NOTE: if you are planning on trying to buy one get the history of the > gun---most that are around now days can be traced back a ways--- that its > a fact---not just that they appeared out of nowhere or out of someone's > attic---most people that own them will not put a price on them---I know i > would not---got a offer to sell my half stock several years ago and i > laughed at them---(darn good offer) my statement was they aint eating > anything and not costing me nothing believe i need to keep um. mine has > a place if anything ever happens to me--- > > there is several hawkens pistols out there also---most large caliber > and used the same breach plug and tang as the rifle ---bent to form the > pistol grip--ramrod was steel and had a swivel on it and was attached to > the muzzle of the gun----good picture of this in beards book--- > > if you have any questions about hawkins give me a shout offline---I aint > no expert but have fondled a few of them in my > time---again---beware---lots of fakes or copies out there---today a good > custom hawkens with good barrel, lock and fine to extra fine wood will > bring from $1500 to $2,500 from a known maker---Bob Reeves who is dead > made several outstanding copies he lived in lancaster california---most > of the people who have bob's guns wont part with them for the above > price--pappy biggs has a match pair one in 50 and one in 54 back in the > early 60's and he gave over $600 for them from bob at that time--so you > could probably multiply todays prices times ten or more and you would > probably come somewhere close to what an appraised value for one would be > if it is original---haven't seen many hawkens with straight grain wood > except for full stocks and a couple or three half stocks---some of them > are walnut but most were hard maple---not soft or sugar maple---look > inside the lock and under the butplate and you will get a good hint as to > their originality---also check around the nipple area for burn out or > age---if they have a patch box which a couple of them had look inside the > patch box---cant duplicate the age in ther---takes many years to get that > effect---hard to fake---also the but plates on the early hawkens were > made from 2 pieces of metal and brazed together--if it's early gun and > doesn't have a brazed butplate it's a copy--- > > hope i have been some assistance to you even if i have meandered a > lot----just think the original price was 25 to 50 dollars almost half a > years wages at that time---small calibers were from 5 to 10 dollars > according to some of the invoices that i have seen---some of the specials > were even more---hoffman and cambell and another guy who worked in the > hawkens shop did engravings on a couple of them---gemner also made and > stamped a few hawkens---not all plains rifles---a couple of shotguns have > been seen with a s hawkens stamp---but most died in the wool hawkens > people thank they were faked at a later date to add value to a unmarked > gun with a couple of hawkens characteristics--- > > "HAWK" > Michael pierce > 854 Glenfield Dr. > Palm Harbor Florida 34684 > E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 > > On Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:41:30 EST Casapy123@aol.com writes: > >I have been asked to look into the going prices of an original Hakwen > >rifle > >in fairly good condition. Anyone have an idea what outrageous prices > >a > >Hawken is bringing these days? > > > >Jim > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Original Hawken Date: 02 Apr 1999 10:19:19 -0600 It's difficult to determine what the current market value of an item such as a Hawken rifle would be because they don't come up for sale very often, and a current selling price is probably the best indicator of value. Like Hawk said, there are many spurious examples out there, and I wouldn't be at all suprised to see a good solid example with satisfactory provenance to sell for 10,000-20,000. The value of any piece that had unique or otherwise outstanding characteristics would obviously rise accordingly. I consider myself lucky in the respect that I have been able to merely handle and examine a number of originals, much less to have an opportunity to purchase. Hawken guns definitely have a unique appeal that makes them very desirable and difficult to part with if your fortunate enough to own one. From the northwoods, Tony Clark -----Original Message----- >I have been asked to look into the going prices of an original Hakwen rifle >in fairly good condition. Anyone have an idea what outrageous prices a >Hawken is bringing these days? > >Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "northwoods" Subject: MtMan-List: The Last of the Mountain Men Date: 02 Apr 1999 10:45:52 -0600 Just read a rather interesting book last week entitled "The Last of the Mountain Men". Many of you are probably familiar with this book, but for those who aren't it's about a gentleman named Sylvan Hart who after graduating college with a degree in engineering decided to "live like a mountain man" on "the River of No Return" in Idaho. He made, grew, mined, or hunted virtually everything he needed. He grew 20 different types of vegetables in his garden. He had a blacksmith shop that he made most of the tools he needed to manufacture an unbelievable assortment of goods. Of particular interest are the flintlock and percussion firearms he made. In his own words, the only items he brought back on his infrequent trips to civilization were, "tea, books, and gunpowder". The handwrought copperware that he manufactured is also very interesting. A "samovar"(for making tea), creamer, sugar bowls, ladles, pots, lamps, tea kettles, tea balls (he was a serious tea drinker indulging in dozens of different varieties) are just a few examples of these items. I enjoyed the book and I hope others do as well. From the northwoods, Tony Clark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Original Hawken Date: 02 Apr 1999 11:28:19 EST In a message dated 4/2/99 10:16:48 AM Central Standard Time, northwoods@ez-net.com writes: > Like Hawk said, there are many spurious examples out there, and I wouldn't > be at all suprised to see a good solid example with satisfactory provenance > to sell for 10,000-20,000. The value of any piece that had unique or > otherwise outstanding characteristics would obviously rise accordingly. An original Hawken went for over $30,000 at an auction in Illinois about 1 1/2 years ago. I have no other info on the specifics. Seem to remember that it was bored somewhere in the 30 caliber range, and was not a fur trade rifle, but rather one which was purchased and used by an individual on our side of the Mississippi. Dave Kanger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Last of the Mountain Men Date: 02 Apr 1999 08:59:56 -0800 Hart also made the national news when he held off the National Guard when they tried to throw him off federal ground where he lived. I read one report that said he had blown a hole in one of the rafts the NG was using, several years late I asked a friend in the guard if that was true. According to my friend a S/Major, he couldn't confirm whether it was or wasn't a correct statement. I traded for a knife that was made by Sylvan Hart, it was crude like some of his pistols he had made, but still neat when you consider he had very little to work with, not like craftsman of today. He was an interesting character and seems to have not backed down from much on anything he had made his mind up on. Buck On Fri, 02 April 1999, "northwoods" wrote: > > Just read a rather interesting book last week entitled "The Last of the > Mountain Men". Many of you are probably familiar with this book, but for > those who aren't it's about a gentleman named Sylvan Hart who after > graduating college with a degree in engineering decided to > "live like a mountain man" on "the River of No Return" in Idaho. He made, > grew, mined, or hunted virtually everything he needed. > He grew 20 different types of vegetables in his garden. He had a blacksmith > shop that he made most of the tools he needed to manufacture an unbelievable > assortment of goods. Of particular interest are the flintlock and percussion > firearms he made. > In his own words, the only items he brought back on his infrequent trips to > civilization were, "tea, books, and gunpowder". > The handwrought copperware that he manufactured is also very interesting. > A "samovar"(for making tea), creamer, sugar bowls, ladles, pots, lamps, tea > kettles, tea balls (he was a serious tea drinker indulging in dozens of > different varieties) are just a few examples of these items. > I enjoyed the book and I hope others do as well. > > From the northwoods, > > Tony Clark > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Last of the Mountain Men Date: 02 Apr 1999 08:59:56 -0800 Hart also made the national news when he held off the National Guard when they tried to throw him off federal ground where he lived. I read one report that said he had blown a hole in one of the rafts the NG was using, several years late I asked a friend in the guard if that was true. According to my friend a S/Major, he couldn't confirm whether it was or wasn't a correct statement. I traded for a knife that was made by Sylvan Hart, it was crude like some of his pistols he had made, but still neat when you consider he had very little to work with, not like craftsman of today. He was an interesting character and seems to have not backed down from much on anything he had made his mind up on. Buck On Fri, 02 April 1999, "northwoods" wrote: > > Just read a rather interesting book last week entitled "The Last of the > Mountain Men". Many of you are probably familiar with this book, but for > those who aren't it's about a gentleman named Sylvan Hart who after > graduating college with a degree in engineering decided to > "live like a mountain man" on "the River of No Return" in Idaho. He made, > grew, mined, or hunted virtually everything he needed. > He grew 20 different types of vegetables in his garden. He had a blacksmith > shop that he made most of the tools he needed to manufacture an unbelievable > assortment of goods. Of particular interest are the flintlock and percussion > firearms he made. > In his own words, the only items he brought back on his infrequent trips to > civilization were, "tea, books, and gunpowder". > The handwrought copperware that he manufactured is also very interesting. > A "samovar"(for making tea), creamer, sugar bowls, ladles, pots, lamps, tea > kettles, tea balls (he was a serious tea drinker indulging in dozens of > different varieties) are just a few examples of these items. > I enjoyed the book and I hope others do as well. > > From the northwoods, > > Tony Clark > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Original Hawken Date: 02 Apr 1999 13:47:55 EST On Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:19:19 -0600 "northwoods" writes: >It's difficult to determine what the current market value of an item >such as >a Hawken rifle would be because they don't come up for sale very >often, and >a current selling price is probably the best indicator of value. >Like Hawk said, there are many spurious examples out there, and I >wouldn't >be at all suprised to see a good solid example with satisfactory >provenance >to sell for 10,000-20,000. I wouldn't part with mine for that price but thats me---------and i havent seen one come up for sail per-say in many years--most are promised if they are going to transfer ownership---saw a junker sell for $12,500 back about 15 years ago---went to kieth Newbyer to be restored prior to sale ---did a hell of a job---he is probably the best in the restoration businessat that time--- you can't find one of his repairs---the one i am speaking of had a lot of bad and missing wood and came from north dekota off of the indian reservation--was in real sad shape but after restoration sold for $12,500 so that will give you a hint---the gun is now located in st louis in a privet collection---have seen it a couple of times "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Original Hawken Date: 02 Apr 1999 13:47:55 EST On Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:28:19 EST ThisOldFox@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 4/2/99 10:16:48 AM Central Standard Time, >northwoods@ez-net.com writes: > >> Like Hawk said, there are many spurious examples out there, and I >wouldn't >> be at all suprised to see a good solid example with satisfactory >provenance >> to sell for 10,000-20,000. The value of any piece that had unique >or >> otherwise outstanding characteristics would obviously rise >accordingly. > >An original Hawken went for over $30,000 at an auction in Illinois >about 1 >1/2 years ago. >I have no other info on the specifics. Seem to remember that it was >bored >somewhere in the 30 caliber range, and was not a fur trade rifle, but >rather >one which was purchased and used by an individual on our side of the >Mississippi. > >Dave Kanger > that gun is probably the one that don steith has and its a nice squirrel rifle---havent got to see it but don sent me some pictures and rubbed it in that he had found and bought one---if you have any more info on the gun please drop me a post offline--- "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Last of the Mountain Men Date: 02 Apr 1999 11:56:35 -0700 Folks, About an eon ago I was up in Kitchen Creek hunting sheep. A thunderstorm rolled in, as they are wont to do afternoons in the mountains, and I hunkered down under a giant fir to keep out of the rain. There was enough dead branches to build a little fire neath the tree, so I stoked one up. After about 15 minutes or so I heard someone huffin and puffin up the canyon, it was a gent dressed in full suit of buckskins and he had longrifle and a gunnysack over his shoulder. He said, "I smelt the smoke and thought I'd see who was campin' up here. Want a chicken?" In the gunnysack were a couple fine pine-hens. We sat and cooked chicken and palavered...I admired his gun but thought he was a little nutty for carrying such a piece...I was very young. I always told folks I had met Buckskin Bill after that. Later in life I found out what Sylvan Hart looked like...and that guy in the buckskins WASN'T him! So, the real last of the mountain men may still be out there somewhere. Baird ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 02 Apr 1999 01:46:39 -0600 Walnut would be the best of the others mentioned John... At 05:23 PM 3/31/99 -0800, you wrote: >Buck at Clark & Sons Mercantile has Haines walnut oil @ $ 3.35 and Haine= s canola oil @ $ 2.15 both in 12.7 oz. bottles, just got some for same purp= ose several weeks ago. > >Powderhawk >____________________________ > >On Wed, 31 March 1999, RR1LA@aol.com wrote: > >>=20 >> ...don't forget Olive Oil. Been used for thousands of years, works gre= at, >> brings out the grain and adds a wonderful luster to the wood.=A0=A0=A0= =A0 YHS, Barney >> Fife >>=20 > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net >=20 Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 02 Apr 1999 01:43:46 -0600 At 05:39 PM 3/31/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hey there John Kramer: > >Can you cast any light on what a good food safe oil for oiling wooden bo= wls >might be? > >Todd Glover >=20 Todd, My first suggestion is the Wood Food Oyl I make. See my web site for inf= o, write or call. The problem with most oils is they turn rancid, including olive (sweet) o= il.=20 When oils turn rancid they also get hard, gummy and difficult to remove. Since there is such a limited category of what really will work well, I have ke= pt the information proprietary; there is a good clue in an old posting. Olive oil isn't really bad (it is far from the worst, mineral oil) if you= use the piece regularly and wash it in hot soapy water and a scalding rinse e= ach time it will balance out nicely. Replenish as needed. The oil is to all= ow thorough washing to keep things clean. It will wash out a bit over time = and require refreshment. Over time it will become more and more resistant to washing. John... John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< mail to: =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Rock Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #274 Date: 02 Apr 1999 13:56:00 -0600 By the way, that barrel was part of a pile of burned(possibly-they were not bent) weapons, trade guns, one saber, stone heads, beads, etc. items. It was presumed the cavalry burned them. Up in NW South Dakota another pile of goods was found in the fifties that contained cavalry insignia. Battle of Reva Gap. Fellow was using a jeep with Korean war Mine detectors rigged in a line across the front. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Rock Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #274 Date: 02 Apr 1999 12:45:28 -0600 A barrel and lock were found in the Badlands of SD in the twenties. Moderately badly rusted. No furniture. Charlie said it looked good. Bob Benton in Custer had a 'maybe' at one time. I have a Large Barreled copy of the Modena rifle that wouldn't sell for any price. Built by Mickey Christian. Don't use cooking oil. Man, it gets rancid and is hard to get out. Made a noggin in '71 and it hung on my pouch. Finally got to taste ok in mid70's and havent touched it since. Walnut oil is good and so is peanut oil. by the way, honey and almost any natural oil is mixed it a pot in open wards in SE Asia (wanna guess where?) and put on wounds with a bandage to hold it in place. Changed daily, wound heals quickly and cleany, no debridement necassary. Hydrogen peroxide is decomposition product of homey, as well as other 'good things' that I can't name. Used as far back as ancient Egypt. Try it and be amazed too. Makes 'ring burns" much less scary. No deep scarring. Rock This list is great. What others are out here like this one? How many members does this list have? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: Re: HAWKEN Date: 02 Apr 1999 12:49:42 -0800 ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Hawk, Like I said these were parts and an easy 25 years ago, Hanson was real excited about the gift. Charley and my father had become friends and were always giving each other items that they were not, themselves interested in. For example: Dad gave Charley the Hawken parts. Several trigger guards thimbles - entry pipes double triggers toe plates butt plates one complete lock misc lock parts sideplates nose caps misc screws There was enought to build at least one gun maybe two, but no barrels, breech plugs or wood. These parts had been purchased on the east coast (I was told these were from old guns that were junk that Bannerman Brothers offered). We were always getting boxes of gun parts from them, at the time several of my father's friends were involved with Valley Forge Historical Society and were rebuilding guns for that period in our basement, so screws were screws, ramrod tips, and many little pieces would work, as were other parts that could be fitted onto these weapons in getting them ready for the different displays. (a half dozen gentlemen had keys to our basement of gun parts,I would bring my friends in to see all the neat stuff, most everyone saw it as a bunch of junk other than my father and his friends). At one time my Dad had over 300 guns most were muzzleloaders all original, some were 75-80% guns and others were in poor to good condition, I got these at time of his passing and have now gotten down to 35-40 weapons in 85-90% NRA very good condition. Most are flint with 3-4 prec. cap guns and only 4 that are cart. rimfire or centerfire. No Hawken rifles as we are talking about, would consider an early Hawken like what the boys father would have made. Sad but back in the 1940's and 50's old gun parts were considered junk by most, as I'm sure you know. Think the Hawken stuff was gone over many times and used as needed, what Hanson got was stuff that won't fit another weapon. Now if you want to talk about tradeguns or Leman's stuff, I have handled and owned a few of them, now kick myself for selling a well used H.E.Leman trade rifle that ended up restored and is beautiful. Have lost track of it as it has passed through several hands in the last few years and the price just keeps doubling everytime. Buck I'm going to pass this on to the history list they may find this interesting and may learn something about keeping their eyes open at gun shows and gun shops. Old gun parts are more valuable now than ever before. ------- End of forwarded message ------- Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 02 Apr 1999 13:05:57 -0800 Rock, You mentioning honey; we were on a month canoe trip and one day after fighting a strong wind and ruff water (making only 10-12 miles in about that many hours), we beached and were laying on the warm sand. One of our members just got back from SE Asia and told us about honey being used to embomb bodies until they could be taken care of, said the honey was cheap - 25 cents a pound. Could be boiled down cleaned and reused ? Now this gentleman is Mr.Cheap by all means and anyone that knows "Rover" will agree. We're laying there on the sand with our butts kicked from such a hard days paddling, nobody can even move to get water or anything else, after a period "Rover" reaches in his pouch and produces some hardtack and a small can of honey. It took a few minutes to figure if we had been setup or not with his story, then decided, what the hell we need something to get us moving and ate the hardtack and honey. Within a half hour we were able to start moving and ate more honey !! Buck > by the way, honey and almost any natural oil is mixed it a pot in open > wards in SE Asia (wanna guess where?) and put on wounds with a bandage > to hold it in place. Changed daily, wound heals quickly and cleany, no > debridement necassary. Hydrogen peroxide is decomposition product of > homey, as well as other 'good things' that I can't name. Used as far > back as ancient Egypt. Try it and be amazed too. Makes 'ring burns" > much less scary. No deep scarring. > > Rock > This list is great. What others are out here like this one? How many > members does this list have? > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 02 Apr 1999 13:05:57 -0800 Rock, You mentioning honey; we were on a month canoe trip and one day after fighting a strong wind and ruff water (making only 10-12 miles in about that many hours), we beached and were laying on the warm sand. One of our members just got back from SE Asia and told us about honey being used to embomb bodies until they could be taken care of, said the honey was cheap - 25 cents a pound. Could be boiled down cleaned and reused ? Now this gentleman is Mr.Cheap by all means and anyone that knows "Rover" will agree. We're laying there on the sand with our butts kicked from such a hard days paddling, nobody can even move to get water or anything else, after a period "Rover" reaches in his pouch and produces some hardtack and a small can of honey. It took a few minutes to figure if we had been setup or not with his story, then decided, what the hell we need something to get us moving and ate the hardtack and honey. Within a half hour we were able to start moving and ate more honey !! Buck > by the way, honey and almost any natural oil is mixed it a pot in open > wards in SE Asia (wanna guess where?) and put on wounds with a bandage > to hold it in place. Changed daily, wound heals quickly and cleany, no > debridement necassary. Hydrogen peroxide is decomposition product of > homey, as well as other 'good things' that I can't name. Used as far > back as ancient Egypt. Try it and be amazed too. Makes 'ring burns" > much less scary. No deep scarring. > > Rock > This list is great. What others are out here like this one? How many > members does this list have? > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pulakabayo@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Military rifle (was Bayonetting a bear?) Date: 02 Apr 1999 16:53:08 EST I was looking through the Dixie catalog and think the Harpers Ferry rifle would fit the bill -- Dixie makes a point that it was an issue rifle for the Lewis & Clark Expedition. Only thing is that the Dixie one does not take a bayonet. Anyone know if the originals did? Thanks, Jim > Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly had an article by Charley many years ago > that referred to many of the guns in the Fur Trade as being military, so your > guess to being military is probably close to being correct. There were many " > contract" rifles that used a bayonet attachment, if you had such a weapon and > had the bayonet, why not use it. > > Buck ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vic Barkin Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 02 Apr 1999 16:40:35 -0700 (MST) Honey, it is said NEVER goes rancid or molds! Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin AMM #1534 Three Rivers Party "Aux aliments du pays!" Booshway of the Powderhorn Clan of Arizona Celebrating our 50th anniversary 1948-1998 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: MtMan-List: Old Letters Date: 03 Apr 1999 01:36:37 GMT I have recently swapped email with a gentleman who dabbles in old stamps, letters, documents, etc (stampless letter =3D prior to 1847). He gave me permission to pass on the following.=20 If you want to contact him directly, he's at rustysmaps@aol.com . Anyone interested in historical cartography ought to toss him an email Rusty said... We also can supply Bear Grease, pints($10 & 1/2 pints($5), rendered it myself, from a buddy's Fall 1998 hunt. Used it to cook flapjack during our 3rd season elk hunt. Plus it has the other uses, waterproofing, axel grease, slick your hair back, etc.=20 Recently got an old stampless letter from 1831, In New Orleans rum was 1.25 a gallon, Whiskey 32c, and bear's oil 1.25. I can get you a photo copy of the 2 page pricelist from Dec 31, 1831 I recently acquired. The mail route from new orleans to Boston was loaded with prices on all goods, furs, etc. Rusty Morse Colorado's Historical cartographer since 1969 Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith and other "B"'s, including = "BS". 1999 SW Rendezvous info available at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Traphand@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Letters Date: 02 Apr 1999 21:44:45 EST would love to get price list from you. rick petzoldt 1318 greenmist fenton mo 63026 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 03 Apr 1999 00:14:16 -0500 Frans Jurgens wrote: > > Besides being an expensive oil, you may want to check on the suitability of olive > oil for wooden bowls. While living in Europe in the eighties, I read somewhere to > avoid applying it in wooden vessels such as a salad bowl (naturally I forget the > reason), and I have avoided doing so ever since. If it's going to be used around food, olive oil is the only thing I'll use. We've never had a problem with it. Fred -- "Slicker 'n Willie Lube".......and that's doin some! http://www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 03 Apr 1999 02:06:31 EST been using olive oil for years on both noggins and utensils, and it works great. never been sticky or gone rancid, and you've probably got a bottle in your kitchen cupboard... MHO, Barney Fife ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 03 Apr 1999 06:46:46 -0800 Hey Boys, Lets move on, seems everyone is in agreement that olive oil or walnut oil works, so make your selection and use what you like. Turtle _____________ On Fri, 02 April 1999, RR1LA@aol.com wrote: > > been using olive oil for years on both noggins and utensils, and it works > great. never been sticky or gone rancid, and you've probably got a bottle in > your kitchen cupboard... MHO, Barney Fife > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 03 Apr 1999 06:46:46 -0800 Hey Boys, Lets move on, seems everyone is in agreement that olive oil or walnut oil works, so make your selection and use what you like. Turtle _____________ On Fri, 02 April 1999, RR1LA@aol.com wrote: > > been using olive oil for years on both noggins and utensils, and it works > great. never been sticky or gone rancid, and you've probably got a bottle in > your kitchen cupboard... MHO, Barney Fife > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 03 Apr 1999 08:57:27 -0600 Hey Turtle You the foreman on this job? Lanney=20 -----Original Message----- Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Hey Boys, > >Lets move on, seems everyone is in agreement that olive oil or walnut = oil works, so make your selection and use what you like. > >Turtle >_____________ > >On Fri, 02 April 1999, RR1LA@aol.com wrote: > >>=20 >> been using olive oil for years on both noggins and utensils, and it = works=20 >> great. never been sticky or gone rancid, and you've probably got a = bottle in=20 >> your kitchen cupboard... MHO, Barney Fife >>=20 > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account = http://www.uswestmail.net > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 03 Apr 1999 06:54:53 -0800 Honey will turn hard into a crystal form, but can be heated in it's container sitting in a pan of water, bringing to a boil then remove and let cool. It's now good as new in it's original state. Have done this several times on a can of honey that was 4-5 years old and have had no problems. Think how much honey has been trashed because it had turned to crystal ! Like Vic says I have been around bees and honey for a few years and have had no experience with it becoming rancid or molding. Many excellent health benefits from a natural product of nature. Turtle ___________________ On Fri, 02 April 1999, Vic Barkin wrote: > > Honey, it is said NEVER goes rancid or molds! > > Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin > > AMM #1534 Three Rivers Party > "Aux aliments du pays!" > > Booshway of the Powderhorn Clan of Arizona > Celebrating our 50th anniversary 1948-1998 > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 03 Apr 1999 06:54:53 -0800 Honey will turn hard into a crystal form, but can be heated in it's container sitting in a pan of water, bringing to a boil then remove and let cool. It's now good as new in it's original state. Have done this several times on a can of honey that was 4-5 years old and have had no problems. Think how much honey has been trashed because it had turned to crystal ! Like Vic says I have been around bees and honey for a few years and have had no experience with it becoming rancid or molding. Many excellent health benefits from a natural product of nature. Turtle ___________________ On Fri, 02 April 1999, Vic Barkin wrote: > > Honey, it is said NEVER goes rancid or molds! > > Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin > > AMM #1534 Three Rivers Party > "Aux aliments du pays!" > > Booshway of the Powderhorn Clan of Arizona > Celebrating our 50th anniversary 1948-1998 > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 03 Apr 1999 09:06:13 -0600 Before heating that crystalized honey to return it to a liquid state, = try using it as is. When I find honey that has crystalized I react = like I have found money on the ground. It rarely gets particularly hard = (maybe as hard as peanut butter, if that hard), adds a different texture = and is still delicious. It can be carried in a tin with much less = chance of leakage than when it is in its liquid state. In fact I wish I = knew how to make honey crystalize other than sitting it in a cupboard = forever. YMOS Lanney Ratcliff -----Original Message----- Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Honey will turn hard into a crystal form, but can be heated in it's = container sitting in a pan of water, bringing to a boil then remove and = let cool. It's now good as new in it's original state. Have done this = several times on a can of honey that was 4-5 years old and have had no = problems. Think how much honey has been trashed because it had turned to = crystal ! > >Like Vic says I have been around bees and honey for a few years and = have had no experience with it becoming rancid or molding. Many = excellent health benefits from a natural product of nature. > >Turtle >___________________ >On Fri, 02 April 1999, Vic Barkin wrote: > >>=20 >> Honey, it is said NEVER goes rancid or molds! >>=20 >> Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin >>=20 >> AMM #1534 Three Rivers Party >> "Aux aliments du pays!" >>=20 >> Booshway of the Powderhorn Clan of Arizona >> Celebrating our 50th anniversary 1948-1998 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account = http://www.uswestmail.net > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Military rifle (was Bayonetting a bear?) Date: 03 Apr 1999 07:09:08 -0800 I have seen article in American Riflemen of "contract" rifles of the Amer. Rev. War and before showing lug arrangements on the end of barrels, a combination affair that included a sight. Jim, Buck Conner had a Mississippi Musket, early 1807-1812 peiod that had such an arrangement for a bayonet, funny he didn't mention it. He had it for sale at Raton along with a dozen other originals about 4 years ago, maybe someone on this hist_list was the lucky person that beat me out on getting it. If Buck turns loose of any other originals let's hope he puts a list on this hist_list, he has sold some good ones over the years. I asked him once why he was doing such a house cleaning and he answered "if you clean a gun a day, with a little time to play with it, I only 43 days left in the year for other interests", I guess that says it all. Buck, if your listening and have some items to move let us know, or at least tell us what and where you'll be seting up the table. Turtle ________________ > > I was looking through the Dixie catalog and think the Harpers Ferry rifle > would fit the bill -- Dixie makes a point that it was an issue rifle for the > Lewis & Clark Expedition. Only thing is that the Dixie one does not take a > bayonet. Anyone know if the originals did? > > Thanks, > Jim > > > Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly had an article by Charley many years ago > > that referred to many of the guns in the Fur Trade as being military, so > your > > guess to being military is probably close to being correct. There were many > " > > contract" rifles that used a bayonet attachment, if you had such a weapon > and > > had the bayonet, why not use it. > > > > Buck > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 03 Apr 1999 07:16:32 -0800 No management positons Lanney, like the name says "slow an old", many others areas we can pronder upon with interest, our's or your knowledge. Seems at times we keep beating a dead horse, that's all. Turtle __________________ > > Hey Turtle > You the foreman on this job? > Lanney > -----Original Message----- > From: turtle@uswestmail.net > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 8:47 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil > > > >Hey Boys, > > > >Lets move on, seems everyone is in agreement that olive oil or walnut oil works, so make your selection and use what you like. > > > >Turtle > >_____________ > > > >On Fri, 02 April 1999, RR1LA@aol.com wrote: > > > >> > >> been using olive oil for years on both noggins and utensils, and it works > >> great. never been sticky or gone rancid, and you've probably got a bottle in > >> your kitchen cupboard... MHO, Barney Fife > >> > > > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 03 Apr 1999 07:16:32 -0800 No management positons Lanney, like the name says "slow an old", many others areas we can pronder upon with interest, our's or your knowledge. Seems at times we keep beating a dead horse, that's all. Turtle __________________ > > Hey Turtle > You the foreman on this job? > Lanney > -----Original Message----- > From: turtle@uswestmail.net > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 8:47 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil > > > >Hey Boys, > > > >Lets move on, seems everyone is in agreement that olive oil or walnut oil works, so make your selection and use what you like. > > > >Turtle > >_____________ > > > >On Fri, 02 April 1999, RR1LA@aol.com wrote: > > > >> > >> been using olive oil for years on both noggins and utensils, and it works > >> great. never been sticky or gone rancid, and you've probably got a bottle in > >> your kitchen cupboard... MHO, Barney Fife > >> > > > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 03 Apr 1999 10:21:58 -0500 turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > > Honey will turn hard into a crystal form, but can be heated in it's container sitting in a pan of water, bringing to a boil then remove and let cool. It's now good as new in it's original state. Have done this several times on a can of honey that was 4-5 years old and have had no problems. Think how much honey has been trashed because it had turned to crystal ! > > Like Vic says I have been around bees and honey for a few years and have had no experience with it becoming rancid or molding. Many excellent health benefits from a natural product of nature. The reason it doesn't "go bad," is because of something the bees have in the hive called propolis(sp). It's made from certain tree pollens. Anyway, it kills bacteria. Fred -- "Slicker 'n Willie Lube".......and that's doin some! http://www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: MtMan-List: Shootin Gun Date: 03 Apr 1999 10:29:41 -0500 Hi all, Those who read this on the other list ignore it, just casting the net a might wider... Due to the sudden need for a new shootin' gun, I am in the market. HAS to be flint, and big enough for bear, doen't even have to be finished or comlete... Any bites? Thanks D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 03 Apr 1999 09:36:31 -0600 you are right......many dead horses are beaten so badly that their own = mamas wouldn't know if they were laying face up or face down. Hope you = realize that my post was a tickle, not a shot. Lanney -----Original Message----- Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >No management positons Lanney, like the name says "slow an old", many = others areas we can pronder upon with interest, our's or your knowledge. > >Seems at times we keep beating a dead horse, that's all. > >Turtle >__________________ >>=20 >> Hey Turtle >> You the foreman on this job? >> Lanney=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: turtle@uswestmail.net >> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 8:47 AM >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil >>=20 >>=20 >> >Hey Boys, >> > >> >Lets move on, seems everyone is in agreement that olive oil or = walnut oil works, so make your selection and use what you like. >> > >> >Turtle >> >_____________ >> > >> >On Fri, 02 April 1999, RR1LA@aol.com wrote: >> > >> >>=20 >> >> been using olive oil for years on both noggins and utensils, and = it works=20 >> >> great. never been sticky or gone rancid, and you've probably got = a bottle in=20 >> >> your kitchen cupboard... MHO, Barney Fife >> >>=20 >> > >> > >> >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account = http://www.uswestmail.net >> > >>=20 >>=20 > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account = http://www.uswestmail.net > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shootin Gun Date: 03 Apr 1999 09:42:06 -0600 Dennis When I hunt bear down here I usually carry a big Willow switch and a = burlap bag. Of course, there ain't no bear down here...except for a few = in deep east Texas and some in the mountains of west Texas and I keep my = ass out of there. Maybe you could shoot flints with a slingshot.=20 your helpful brother Lanney -----Original Message----- >Hi all, > Those who read this on the other list ignore it, just casting the net = a >might wider... >Due to the sudden need for a new shootin' gun, I am in the market. HAS = to be >flint, and big enough for bear, doen't even have to be finished or >comlete... Any bites? >Thanks >D > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Military rifle (was Bayonetting a bear?) Date: 03 Apr 1999 08:02:14 -0800 Turtle you horses butt, I thought you went under at that big flood on the Mississippi a few years ago, still back east! If you can quote me right, then don't quote me at all, you left out all the colorful lanuage. Anyway I could list anything in the future that I may want to move if the folks on this list think that's OK. Oh, it only takes me 35-40 days for the cleanin' and playin' now. The wife says that's more time for lookin' and tradin', she finally gave up on the dealin'. That's right on the lug on that musket, forgot about that old flinter, Turtle you should have spoke up, would have saved it for you. Lanney you can't hurt this old fart, his head is like a good old flint - smooth, dull and hard. Later Buck On Sat, 03 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > I have seen article in American Riflemen of "contract" rifles of the Amer. Rev. War and before showing lug arrangements on the end of barrels, a combination affair that included a sight. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Military rifle (was Bayonetting a bear?) Date: 03 Apr 1999 08:02:14 -0800 Turtle you horses butt, I thought you went under at that big flood on the Mississippi a few years ago, still back east! If you can quote me right, then don't quote me at all, you left out all the colorful lanuage. Anyway I could list anything in the future that I may want to move if the folks on this list think that's OK. Oh, it only takes me 35-40 days for the cleanin' and playin' now. The wife says that's more time for lookin' and tradin', she finally gave up on the dealin'. That's right on the lug on that musket, forgot about that old flinter, Turtle you should have spoke up, would have saved it for you. Lanney you can't hurt this old fart, his head is like a good old flint - smooth, dull and hard. Later Buck On Sat, 03 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > I have seen article in American Riflemen of "contract" rifles of the Amer. Rev. War and before showing lug arrangements on the end of barrels, a combination affair that included a sight. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shootin Gun (YAK) Delete, don't whine. Date: 03 Apr 1999 11:08:30 -0500 Hell Lanney, C'mon up, bring yer switch 'n bag... I'll bring some blotter paper and a video camera, and we can show folks how you earned your new name of "Ol Bearscat" And I'll win enough money from one of those t.v. shows that show real video to have Wallace Gussler make me a shooter!! Know what the last words of most Texans are??? "Hey!! Lookit me! Whatch this!!" D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: RE: MtMan-List: The Last of the Mountain Men Date: 03 Apr 1999 12:06:13 -0700 Reply to: RE: MtMan-List: The Last of the Mountain Men The Backwoodsman did several articles about him. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants northwoods wrote: >Just read a rather interesting book last week entitled "The Last of the >Mountain Men". Many of you are probably familiar with this book, but for >those who aren't it's about a gentleman named Sylvan Hart who after >graduating college with a degree in engineering decided to >"live like a mountain man" on "the River of No Return" in Idaho. He made, >grew, mined, or hunted virtually everything he needed. >He grew 20 different types of vegetables in his garden. He had a = blacksmith >shop that he made most of the tools he needed to manufacture an = unbelievable >assortment of goods. Of particular interest are the flintlock and = percussion >firearms he made. >In his own words, the only items he brought back on his infrequent trips = to >civilization were, "tea, books, and gunpowder". >The handwrought copperware that he manufactured is also very interesting. >A "samovar"(for making tea), creamer, sugar bowls, ladles, pots, lamps, = tea >kettles, tea balls (he was a serious tea drinker indulging in dozens of >different varieties) are just a few examples of these items. >I enjoyed the book and I hope others do as well. > >>From the northwoods, > >Tony Clark > > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with = ESMTP > (SMTPD32-5.01) id A32E15B00C0; Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:41:18 -0700 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10T702-0006mN-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:40:54 -0700 > Received: from [205.243.220.6] (helo=3Dvaughn.ez-net.com ident=3Droot) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10T6zy-0006mB-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:40:52 -0700 > Received: from Dr (pm3gs1-m1.ez-net.com [207.250.163.11]) > by vaughn.ez-net.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA03286 > for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:39:11 -0600 (CST)= > Message-ID: <003401be7d28$45a297c0$0ba3facf@Dr.LisaR.Clark> > From: "northwoods" > To: > Subject: MtMan-List: The Last of the Mountain Men > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:45:52 -0600 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > X-RCPT-TO: > X-UIDL: 322 > Status: U > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Copper Pots pix Date: 03 Apr 1999 12:21:07 -0700 Reply to: RE: MtMan-List: Copper Pots pix Sean - Tried your address and couldn't get it. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants sean wrote: >My apologies.... I was sent a picture of nested copper pots to post on a >page I did for the List, but no text came with it. I finally got it posted >(LONG week at the office...) for those of you who want to check it out the >address is: > >http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Geyser/3216/HistList.htm > >This is a "closed" page for only those who are a member of this list... > >Addison Miller > > > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with ESMTP > (SMTPD32-5.01) id AB0D19200A6; Fri, 02 Apr 1999 06:50:05 -0700 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10T4Ki-0000CR-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:50:04 -0700 > Received: from [198.60.22.22] (helo=mail.xmission.com) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10T4Kf-0000CM-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:50:01 -0700 > Received: from [206.102.200.11] (helo=mercury.peganet.net ident=root) > by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) > id 10T4Kf-0002fI-00 > for Hist_text@xmission.com; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:50:01 -0700 > Received: from seans-puter (peg28-ts53.peganet.com [206.100.65.103]) > by mercury.peganet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA28964 > for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:49:58 -0500 (EST) > Message-ID: <000301be7d10$8ef4a8e0$674164ce@seans-puter> > From: "sean" > To: > Subject: MtMan-List: Copper Pots pix > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:56:05 -0500 > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > X-RCPT-TO: > X-UIDL: 314 > Status: U > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sean" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Copper Pots pix Date: 03 Apr 1999 17:29:28 -0500 Hmmm... not idea why... I just clicked on the URL and it took me right there... Its slow to load due to the size of the graphic. I'll see if my wife can cut it down in KB some... -----Original Message----- > Reply to: RE: MtMan-List: Copper Pots pix >Sean - Tried your address and couldn't get it. > >DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants > >sean wrote: >>My apologies.... I was sent a picture of nested copper pots to post on a >>page I did for the List, but no text came with it. I finally got it >posted >>(LONG week at the office...) for those of you who want to check it out >the >>address is: >> >>http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Geyser/3216/HistList.htm >> >>This is a "closed" page for only those who are a member of this list... >> >>Addison Miller >> >> >> >> >> >>RFC822 header >>----------------------------------- >> >> Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com >with ESMTP >> (SMTPD32-5.01) id AB0D19200A6; Fri, 02 Apr 1999 06:50:05 -0700 >> Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) >> id 10T4Ki-0000CR-00 >> for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:50:04 -0700 >> Received: from [198.60.22.22] (helo=mail.xmission.com) >> by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) >> id 10T4Kf-0000CM-00 >> for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:50:01 -0700 >> Received: from [206.102.200.11] (helo=mercury.peganet.net ident=root) >> by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) >> id 10T4Kf-0002fI-00 >> for Hist_text@xmission.com; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:50:01 -0700 >> Received: from seans-puter (peg28-ts53.peganet.com [206.100.65.103]) >> by mercury.peganet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA28964 >> for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:49:58 -0500 (EST) >> Message-ID: <000301be7d10$8ef4a8e0$674164ce@seans-puter> >> From: "sean" >> To: >> Subject: MtMan-List: Copper Pots pix >> Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:56:05 -0500 >> X-Priority: 3 >> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 >> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 >> Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Precedence: bulk >> Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> X-RCPT-TO: >> X-UIDL: 314 >> Status: U >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sean" Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: Hist-Prog-Other comment Mountain Men Date: 03 Apr 1999 17:38:47 -0500 I wrote asking when they might be re-showingthe Moutain Men... below is the answer... Soooo... I ordered the video from the number below. They were totally OUT of stock... Had a big run on it after the show was on TV... Will be about 6 wks delivery they tell me. Anyone wanting it, call...I think it was $24.00 including shipping. Addison Miller >Dear Addison, > >The program mentioned in your e-mail, "Time Machine: Mountain Men", is not >scheduled to repeat at this time. Please check back regularly (every two >to three months) to see if the program has been re-scheduled. > >To find out the home video availablity of this or any other program, please >call A&E Home Video at (888) 708-1776. Ask for the program by its exact >title. Thank you for your interest in our programming. > > >Viewer Relations >http://www.AandE.com >http://www.Biography.com >http://www.HistoryChannel.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: mtmen list: the last of the mountain men Date: 03 Apr 1999 18:03:57 -0500 (EST) Where's Kitchen Creek (state?) Who's Buckskin Bill? (and some folks say he's up there still). Some others have seen The Ancient Ones at various times. There's a 2 page article by Charlie Richie (titled Presences) in a Dixie Gun Works 1981 Blackpowder Annual that is right along this path. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dean Rudy Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: Reenacting Date: 03 Apr 1999 17:23:58 -0700 >From: FSLark@aol.com >Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:51:40 EST >Subject: Reenacting >To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 >Reply-To: FSLark@aol.com > >I have been lurking for just over a month and am getting interested in >participating at Rendevous events. I have been to several Civil War >reenactments locally which have whetted my appetite for living history. As a >complete novice, I have no equipment and know no one who is a "mountain man" >reenactor in this part of Florida (Ocala). I am curious about how to get >started and what startup equipment would cost. Any help/advice would be >greatly appreciated. >Frank >P.S. I viewed the Mountain Man show on the History Channel. As a history >teacher at the high school level, I can with certainty assert that few >students would catch the errors noted. I believe the only truly glaring >error was the Winchester rifle in the photograph. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ridgerunner Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 03 Apr 1999 17:00:53 -0800 "Fred A. Miller" wrote: > > > The reason it doesn't "go bad," is because of something the bees have in the > hive called propolis(sp). It's made from certain tree pollens. Anyway, it > kills bacteria. > > Fred > Another reason is that honey, being pure sugar, is strongly hygroscopic. In other words, it pulls all the water out of other cells that get into it, thereby killing them. Good stuff, honey, especially on sourdough biscuits soaked with marrowfat or butter. Butch ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PappyCton@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On horse "wild" horse training. Date: 04 Apr 1999 14:31:56 EDT There's a whole generation of horsemen, who like Monty Roberts, have figgered out some easy(ier) ways to train... Tom Dorrance is another, who also has a book out. There are a couple of others, too. These guys do workshops around the country, with people bringing in horses as well as a full audience. Well worth the admission price. Body language, timing and glacial slow patience are key--- watching the process in real time makes a world of difference. Having done some horseshoeing, and seen some hooves, mustang hooves are sturdy, thick walled and well formed... not shelly and thin, but strong and resilient. As the saying goes: `no hoof, no horse'. These were mustangs raised in high desert country, not lush grasslands, either. There are mustang show events, now. A teacher/friend taught me that most of the health and training issues we deal with our horses, are caused by captivity. Think about it- hoof problems, digestive, behavioral (i.e., cribbing), often have their root in, or are exacerbated by captivity. Go see Monty Roberts, Tom Dorrance, or half a dozen others- you won't regret it. Also, from the university of Colorado (I think), Dr. Temple Grandin, who specializes in the design of livestock handling facilities. She has a couple of books out, one auto biography, and a couple of texts. She has a unique personal perception, and also does appearances. She also is very accesible on line, from her own account. From California, where we're all woolly and a yard wide! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Smith Subject: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 04 Apr 1999 23:11:53 -0700 Hey, any great tips on how to transport honey? I put mine in a glass bottle with a cork, and no matter who nicely it's packed in my cassette, it always tips over, oozes past the cork, and gets on everything! It's become a huge joke with my friends. I hate to give up packing it, but even crystalized it makes a mess. Help! :-) YMDS -Tassee ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Smith Subject: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 04 Apr 1999 23:16:53 -0700 Okay, one last on this topic: My mama always uses peanut oil. Don't wash your wooden ware in soap. If you use it ofen enough, it won't have a chance to get rancid. Even when I've stuck mine in a cabinet for year, pulled it out and found it sticky (rare occurence), I just scrub it with hot water, use it, scrub it again, and re-oil. Mama would tan my hide if she caught me washing her wooden bowls in soap. Same as the cast iron. Thank God for the Depression - I've learned most of my "mountain man" skills from my Mom from Oklahoma! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tigrbo1 Subject: MtMan-List: Wall Tents Date: 05 Apr 1999 00:59:50 -0700 Hello List, This is to the fellow inquiring about wheather or not he should buy a wall tent from a civil war reenactor and would it be period appropreate or not. To make a long story short, wall tents are documentable back to before Roman times, so yes the tent would be just fine. Best regards, Terry Smith > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tigrbo1 Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: Reenacting Date: 05 Apr 1999 01:29:24 -0700 Greetings Dean, Just for starters, pick a year date and locality, then work outward from there. When developing your persona it helps a lot if you start out with a specific year and location in mind as the year and place your persona is from will determine a great deal. Hope this helps get you started, E-mail again when you have more questions. Best regards, Terry Smith > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 05 Apr 1999 07:37:20 -0700 Barb, We have used a small paint can, quart size. You can buy new cans that can be fill with boiling water to clean then wash with hot soapy water. I got lucky and found an old 1830's tin tobacco can that had a tight fitting lid, but only holds enought for a 2-3 day camp for several people. Of corse we you it in place of other sweeteners because of container and having no problems with ants or other bugs being attracted to it. On long 2-4 week outings we use the paint can that now has a pleasing dull tone now after years of service. Have carried this in our "mess" on horseback, canoe and just moving from one spot to another with traveling and have had no spills in 25-30 years. Before this time period we tried a jar like you have mentioned and have had problems. Buck ______________________ On Sun, 04 April 1999, Barbara Smith wrote: > > Hey, any great tips on how to transport honey? I put mine in a glass > bottle with a cork, and no matter who nicely it's packed in my cassette, > it always tips over, oozes past the cork, and gets on everything! It's > become a huge joke with my friends. I hate to give up packing it, but > even crystalized it makes a mess. Help! :-) > > YMDS > -Tassee Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtmen list: the last of the mountain men Date: 05 Apr 1999 09:14:24 -0600 Jon, Get the book so you'll know all about "Buckskin Bill". (He couldn't tan a lick by the way). Kitchen Creek is in Idaho, Salmon River Primitive Area. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Hunt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Last of the Mountain Men Date: 05 Apr 1999 11:39:34 -0700 After reading several posts about Sylvan Hart, a magazine a few years ago had several issues about Hart in a continuing series. I don`t remember or I can`t locate which magazine it was, "I keep`em all". Also it was mentioned about a gun? cannon? he built to defend his cliff side domain, if memory is close I think it was a 1" dia. bore. It also mentioned that he entertain or tolerate rafters coming down his river when they would stop to visit. It also said he had separate ledge`s or rooms for his shop, living, sleeping,and cooking. This is taken from memory. As many of you know, sometimes memories confuse us. After reading a little about Hart, it sounds as if he was a colorful character, living the life we dream of, a legendary person. Too bad most people have to go under before we hear of there greatness and exploits. Nuff sed John (BIG JOHN) Hunt Longhunter Mountainman southwest Ohio -----Original Message----- Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Hart also made the national news when he held off the National Guard when they tried to throw him off federal ground where he lived. I read one report that said he had blown a hole in one of the rafts the NG was using, several years late I asked a friend in the guard if that was true. According to my friend a S/Major, he couldn't confirm whether it was or wasn't a correct statement. I traded for a knife that was made by Sylvan Hart, it was crude like some of his pistols he had made, but still neat when you consider he had very little to work with, not like craftsman of today. He was an interesting character and seems to have not backed down from much on anything he had made his mind up on. Buck On Fri, 02 April 1999, "northwoods" wrote: > > Just read a rather interesting book last week entitled "The Last of the > Mountain Men". Many of you are probably familiar with this book, but for > those who aren't it's about a gentleman named Sylvan Hart who after > graduating college with a degree in engineering decided to > "live like a mountain man" on "the River of No Return" in Idaho. He made, > grew, mined, or hunted virtually everything he needed. > He grew 20 different types of vegetables in his garden. He had a blacksmith > shop that he made most of the tools he needed to manufacture an unbelievable > assortment of goods. Of particular interest are the flintlock and percussion > firearms he made. > In his own words, the only items he brought back on his infrequent trips to > civilization were, "tea, books, and gunpowder". > The handwrought copperware that he manufactured is also very interesting. > A "samovar"(for making tea), creamer, sugar bowls, ladles, pots, lamps, tea > kettles, tea balls (he was a serious tea drinker indulging in dozens of > different varieties) are just a few examples of these items. > I enjoyed the book and I hope others do as well. > > From the northwoods, > > Tony Clark > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wren Phillips" Subject: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 05 Apr 1999 10:53:22 PDT Honey, it is said NEVER goes rancid or molds!...how can this be true? Wren Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Last of the Mountain Men Date: 05 Apr 1999 11:02:17 -0700 Hart had several cannons, have a friend dealing on a 1 1/8" bore cannon built by Sylvan Hart, according to the doc. he shot steel ball bearings in it. The same gentleman has 2 pistols built by Hart and a long knife. > Also it was mentioned about a gun? cannon? he built to defend his cliff side domain, if memory is close I think it was a 1" dia. bore. I have read the same articles, believe they were in the Backwoodsman magazine, and what you said about his housing is correct. > It also mentioned that he entertain or tolerate rafters coming down his river when they would stop to visit. > It also said he had separate ledge`s or rooms for his shop, living, sleeping,and cooking. Later Buck Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 05 Apr 1999 14:22:41 -0500 Because there is no fat in honey. John... At 10:53 AM 4/5/99 -0700, you wrote: >Honey, it is said NEVER goes rancid or molds!...how can this be true? > >Wren >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil Date: 05 Apr 1999 17:03:08 -0600 Reply to: RE: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil I'm originally from Oklahoma too. What part was your grandmother from and = who was she, if you don't mind me asking? Don DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants Barbara Smith wrote: >Okay, one last on this topic: My mama always uses peanut oil. Don't >wash your wooden ware in soap. If you use it ofen enough, it won't have >a chance to get rancid. Even when I've stuck mine in a cabinet for >year, pulled it out and found it sticky (rare occurence), I just scrub >it with hot water, use it, scrub it again, and re-oil. Mama would tan >my hide if she caught me washing her wooden bowls in soap. Same as the >cast iron. Thank God for the Depression - I've learned most of my >"mountain man" skills from my Mom from Oklahoma! > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with = ESMTP > (SMTPD32-5.01) id A57A58B0118; Mon, 05 Apr 1999 00:17:30 -0700 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10U2hT-00041L-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 00:17:35 -0600 > Received: from [209.213.140.5] (helo=3Dq3.quik.com) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10U2hQ-00041G-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 00:17:32 -0600 > Received: from portland.quik.com (ip044.portland.quik.com [209.213.133.= 44]) > by q3.quik.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA45680 > for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:17:28 -0700 > Message-ID: <37085555.72A436FA@portland.quik.com> > Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 23:16:53 -0700 > From: Barbara Smith > Organization: Reenactor/Fort Nisqually > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) > X-Accept-Language: en > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: history > Subject: MtMan-List: Food Safe Oil > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > X-RCPT-TO: > X-UIDL: 395 > Status: U > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laura Rugel Glise Subject: MtMan-List: German shotgun Date: 05 Apr 1999 18:38:45 +0000 My great, great, grandfather was advisor to the King of Wurtemburg, Germany. My great, great grandfather was a German botanist and physician that immigrated to Tennessee in 1840. When he immigrated to Tennessee, in his possession was a beautifully carved, double-barrel percussion shotgun. It was given to me by my Father before he died eight years ago. On the barrell, in inlaid gold, are the words: W.KLAWITTER IN WOLFEGG Does anyone have a similar shotgun. Thanks. Laura Jean ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: zaslow Subject: RE: MtMan-List: The Old Gunsmith Date: 05 Apr 1999 23:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Thank you. That is the series I spoke about. Been out of town lately and got back to over 200 e-mails. Hadn't yet had time to find it. Best Regards, Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488 ________________________________________________________________________________ At 01:36 PM 3/25/99 -0700, you wrote: >Pendelton, > >I'm sure Jerry will come back with some more specific info, but just to get >you started this series ran in 8 installments from the Sept/Oct 1991 issue >to the Nov/Dec-1992 issue. It was (and is) one of my favorite series >published in this and other mags on the sport. > >I'm at work and do not have any specifics about the rifling machine >described, but if you have any of those mags you can look it up. > >Hope this helps some, > >Red Coyote > >> ---------- >> From: zaslow >> Reply To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Sent: Monday, March 22, 1999 23:09 >> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RIFLING MACHINE >> >> Pendelton, >> >> Back a few years ago there was an excellent series in the Muzzleloader >> Magazine about an early gunmaker. When I get a chance I'll try and locate >> it for you, but it went into great detail about how the guns were made by >> hand. I think it described the barrel making machine. >> >> Give me about a week and I'll see what I can find. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488 >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Duncan Macready Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 06 Apr 1999 20:40:33 +1200 Wren wrote: >Honey, it is said NEVER goes rancid or molds!...how can this be true? Honey contains natural products which kill bacteria and fungi as long as the honey is pure , add water and you will get mead ( of a sort), it is contaminants which cause honey to go off. YMOS Cutfinger. Friendships made. Problems shared. Campfires across the Wilderness ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Plew Date: 06 Apr 1999 08:17:05 EDT Does anyone know the origin of the term "plew"? Did it come from the French? If so, when was it first used? We all know it refered to beaver hides by our favored era, but did it always? Can't remember who has the period dictionary -- maybe it's there 'cuz it sure ain't in the modern versions I have access to. Thanks NM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Plew Date: 06 Apr 1999 08:22:36 -0400 N.M, I know the french word for skin is "peau" D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -----Original Message----- >Does anyone know the origin of the term "plew"? Did it come from the French? >If so, when was it first used? We all know it refered to beaver hides by our >favored era, but did it always? Can't remember who has the period dictionary >-- maybe it's there 'cuz it sure ain't in the modern versions I have access >to. > >Thanks >NM > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Plew Date: 06 Apr 1999 07:37:08 -0500 From the French word "pelu" meaning hairy, from the Latin word "pilus" meaning hair. The word "pile is also derived from the Latin word. One meaning of pile is "a soft fine hair". From the northwoods, Tony Clark -----Original Message----- >Does anyone know the origin of the term "plew"? Did it come from the French? >If so, when was it first used? We all know it refered to beaver hides by our >favored era, but did it always? Can't remember who has the period dictionary >-- maybe it's there 'cuz it sure ain't in the modern versions I have access >to. > >Thanks >NM > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wren Phillips" Subject: MtMan-List: camp bread Date: 06 Apr 1999 08:41:10 PDT Thanks guy's for the info on the honey. Now if I could make a decent camp biscuit I would be doing fine. Anyone have any tips for this first time wilderness baker. Wren Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jbrandl@wyoming.com (Joe Brandl) Subject: MtMan-List: scissors Date: 06 Apr 1999 11:00:13 -0600 looking for a wholesale source for chinese scissors for our store. We don't do mail order or trade at rendenzvous anymore, so I will not be competing with other traders. You an email me personally. Will trade for other sources. Thanks Joe Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440 Write for custom tanning prices We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and hair on robes Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: camp bread Date: 06 Apr 1999 17:17:45 -0500 Below is a recipe from an 18th century cookbook for Keepsake Biscuits. = KS biscuits were intended to keep long enough to provide bread for the = extended journeys of the time. I have kept KS biscuits for several = weeks but after the first day or so they are better if they are heated = over a fire. They can also be broken into chunks the size of the last = joint of your thumb and cooked with meat for dumplings or cooked with = fruit for a cobbler. It is unlikely that even one KS biscuit ever got = baked in the rocky mountains but it is remotely possible that someone = fresh from his mama's kitchen could have hauled some a couple of = thousand miles to the mountains. Let your conscience be your guide. Regular biscuits are very easy. Mix about 1/2 cup of any liquid = fat...bacon grease, melted lard, butter, cooking oil... with about 1 1/4 = cups liquid...water, milk, beer... and add to about 3 cups self-rising = flour and stir into a damp dough. Pinch into balls about the size of = golf balls and flatten between your palms. Cook them any way you = want...in a Dutch oven if you brought such a thing to the mountains, in = a skillet over a slow fire (turning as needed), in a skillet inclined = before a fire (turning as needed), or even on a flat rock before the = fire. They can even be cooked in a regular house oven at 400 degrees = for about 10-12 minutes.=20 A rope of dough can be curled around a stick and toasted over the fire = but I have never had very good luck with this method...making the rope = not much bigger than a pencil might help. Somebody help me on this. I hope this helps. Lanney Ratcliff, expert biscuit chef Keepsake Biscuits 1 quart milk or cream - I use half and half 1 & 1/2 cups butter or lard=20 2 tablespoons white sugar 1 heaping teaspoon salt 1 teaspoon cream of tartar 10 cups all purpose flour - NOT self rising Cut the butter into the dry ingredients, reserving about three cups of = the flour. Add the milk and mix in enough of the reserved flour to make = a stiff dough. Roll out between 1/2 & 3/4 inch think and cut into = biscuits - or roll into balls the size of small eggs and flatten into = biscuits. Place fairly close together (they hardly rise at all) and = bake at 400 degrees for about 20 to 25 minutes, or only until the = bottoms are lightly browned. If you cook them until the tops look like = regular biscuits they will be hard as Chinese arithmetic. The excessive = fat will make them look (and be) gummy, but they will be fine when cool. = This recipe makes about 40 biscuits. NOTE: AS THE RECIPE SAYS DO NOT OVERCOOK. GOLDEN BROWN IS TOO, = REPEAT, TOO DONE. COOKED BROWN THEY WILL BE HARD AND CRUMBLY. NOT = GOOD!! TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS. L > -----Original Message----- >Thanks guy's for the info on the honey. Now if I could make a decent=20 >camp biscuit I would be doing fine. Anyone have any tips for this = first=20 >time wilderness baker. > >Wren > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: camp bread Date: 06 Apr 1999 18:21:37 -0700 Assuming you're using a dutch oven, the biggest single enemy to good biscuits we've experienced is too much heat, especially on the bottom. Pre-heat the oven before adding the biscuits, have slightly more coals on top than bottom, and remove the oven from coals (and vice versa) before they are done as the residual heat of the oven alone will finish them. If you have a pie tin same diameter as the oven, you can place it in the oven inverted, and do the biscuits on the tin instead of the oven bottom. Saturate with honey and enjoy! T Wren Phillips wrote: > Thanks guy's for the info on the honey. Now if I could make a decent > camp biscuit I would be doing fine. Anyone have any tips for this first > time wilderness baker. > > Wren > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: camp bread Date: 06 Apr 1999 18:30:14 -0400 Wren, Lanney cooks a goooood biscut... Damn, he IS good for somethin'.. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JOHNNY RUTLEDGE" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Date: 06 Apr 1999 21:49:40 -0500 Ok list here is the question I need help with. I now have $850 to spend on a smooth Bore. What should I buy? I do about 8 rowdy's a year and dress in the 1835 to 1840 era style dress. What should I buy that would be period correct and were to get it? What about a Brown Bess Or Harper's Ferry. I need Some help here because I would like to have it in less than 30 days. Thanks in advance. Lone-Wolf ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Date: 06 Apr 1999 23:03:24 -0500 Lone-Wolf Ask as many of your friends as possible for a list of gunmakers/dealers = with whom they have had satisfactory experiences. Tabulate the names = and contact those whose names appear repeatedly. Dealers will have some = guns but you might find a gunmaker with wares on hand. Your 30 day time = limit will probably keep you from having a gun made but if you shop = carefully your $850 should be enough to get a pretty good gun. It will = help if you have a clear idea of what you want going in. If you can't = get good answers to good questions take your money to the next guy on = your list. However, don't pester the seller with a boxload of questions = ON THE PHONE....just find out if he carries what you want, his address = and business hours, then go see him. Don't settle for something you = really don't want. Don't let your timetable force the issue.....you = have done without this gun for a long time, a little more time isn't = likely to kill you. =20 I bought my .62 trade gun from Taylor Anderson at Frontier Arms in = Granbury, Texas for just over the amount you have. I recommend him = without reservation. YMOS Lanney Ratcliff -----Original Message----- > >Ok list here is the question I need help with. I now have $850 to = spend on >a smooth Bore. What should I buy? I do about 8 rowdy's a year and = dress in >the 1835 to 1840 era style dress. What should I buy that would be = period >correct and were to get it? What about a Brown Bess Or Harper's Ferry. = I >need Some help here because I would like to have it in less than 30 = days. > Thanks in advance. > > = Lone-Wolf > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Date: 06 Apr 1999 21:21:25 -0700 Lone Wolf, The Harpers ferry 1803 is a rifle gun, I'm not sure if that is what you referred to? I have two english Trade Guns, one is a short 'canoe type' the other is a 36' barrel. I like them. One is made from parts, by Dave Conte in Cal.. The other (long one) is a kit from northwest star. If I were to spend money again , I would buy a Caywood (see latest Muzzle Loader magazine). Their's has the option of a matching rifle barrel. A friend of mine has one, and it's a nice setup. Hardtack ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Date: 07 Apr 1999 00:15:09 EDT check some of these suppliers. i can personally recommend Tennessee Valley Mfg and CentreMark for prooducing both rifles and smoothbores that are good quality and very fairly priced. Shooter's Resources (a very comprehensive listing of many makers) JP Gunstocks, Inc., Muzzleloading Rifles - Pistols - Smooth Bores TVM (Tennessee Valley Manufacturing) BP Vendors (another comprehensive listing) Hope this helps, YHS, Barney Fife ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Date: 07 Apr 1999 01:02:35 EDT best on the market for the price and you also get quality---- "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:21:25 -0700 RANDAL J BUBLITZ writes: >Lone Wolf, The Harpers ferry 1803 is a rifle gun, I'm not sure if >that is what you referred to? I have two english Trade Guns, one is a >short 'canoe type' the other is a 36' barrel. I like them. One is >made from parts, by Dave Conte in Cal.. The other (long one) is a kit >from northwest star. If I were to spend money again , I would buy a >Caywood (see latest Muzzle Loader magazine). Their's has the option >of a matching rifle barrel. A friend of mine has one, and it's a nice >setup. Hardtack > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Austin, Tim" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: camp bread Date: 07 Apr 1999 08:07:27 -0500 Lanney, Should you tell people to break the KS biscuits into the size of the last joint of your thumb, for most of us that is almost enough to fill the cup, seeing the size of your thumbs. Maybe it would be better if they broke them up to small bite size pieces or less. These are good, the recipe works great, and I generally have a sack of them on all my outings. Lanney is correct, they are great, and I thank him for sharing his recipe with all. Tim Austin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Pickert Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: Fw: Date: 07 Apr 1999 08:05:45 -0700 (PDT) --0-1804289383-923497545=:1107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Note: forwarded message attached. === Rick(Walks in the Night)Pickert _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --0-1804289383-923497545=:1107 Content-Type: message/rfc822 X-Apparently-To: walksinthenight@yahoo.com via send207.mail.yahoo.com Received: from web.a-znet.com (HELO mail.a-znet.com) (209.177.29.6) by mta101.yahoomail.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 04:31:17 -0700 Received: from computer (syr44199.a-znet.com [209.177.44.199]) by mail.a-znet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA00402 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:44:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000901be80eb$df9b0120$c72cb1d1@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Length: 2293 -----Original Message----- bls392@freewwweb.com ; boduval@zeus.kern.org ; chall@english.fsu.edu ; cjurbans@wcnet.org ; Tiger2377@aol.com ; kismet@CSWNET.COM ; Dorinda777@yahoo.com ; MYNAILZ@aol.com ; hthurgood@yahoo.com ; jtauger@sk.sympatico.ca ; jowillhight@hotmail.com ; ciara@a-znet.com ; Kristy_linn@hotmail.com ; cairiad1@hotmail.com ; woofur@lks.net ; Miana@goplay.com ; shaylynsteel@earthlink.net ; sandaidh@flash.netdex.com ; SexyNSwyt@aol.com ; Dremc28@hotmail.com > >GAS OUT > > THE GREAT "GAS OUT" >It's time we did something about the price >of gasoline in America! We are all sick and >tired of high prices when there are literally >millions of gallons in storage. >Know what I found out? If there was just >ONE day when no one purchased any gasoline, >prices would drop drastically. >The so-called oil cartel has decided to >slow production by some 2 million barrels >per day to drive up the price. I have decided >to see how many Americans we can get >to NOT BUY ANY GASOLINE on one particular day! >Let's have a GAS OUT! Do not buy any gasoline >on APRIL 30, 1999!!!!! >Buy on Thursday before, or Saturday after. >Do not buy any gasoline on FRIDAY, APRIL 30, 1999. >Wanna help? Send this message to >everyone you know. Ask them to do the same. All >we need is a few million to participate in >order to make a difference. >Let me know how many you will send out. >We CAN make a difference. > >Thanks. > >+-------------------------------------------------------------------------- + >| The coolest site for free home pages, email, chat, e-cards, movie info.. | >| http://www.goplay.com - it's time to Go Play! | >+-------------------------------------------------------------------------- + --0-1804289383-923497545=:1107-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "McKee" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scissors Date: 07 Apr 1999 11:08:33 -0500 you might try Smoke & Fire Co. Their telephone # is 419 832 0303. Their fax is 419 832 5008. They wholesale some of their catalog ( I'm not sure about their scissors but they have three different sizes). I hope that is of some help. Long John CUSTOM MADE LEATHER GOODS, SPECIALIZING IN THE AMERICAN FUR TRADE ERA -----Original Message----- >looking for a wholesale source for chinese scissors for our store. We don't >do mail order or trade at rendenzvous anymore, so I will not be competing >with other traders. You an email me personally. Will trade for other >sources. >Thanks >Joe > >Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery >Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440 >Write for custom tanning prices >We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and >hair on robes >Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets >check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Date: 07 Apr 1999 09:34:11 -0700 Take a good look at Caywood Arms, they make some really nice stuff and you can buy kits, guns in the white and finished. Your price range is what a gun in the white would run. Turtle ____________ > > > >Ok list here is the question I need help with. I now have $850 to spend on > >a smooth Bore. What should I buy? I do about 8 rowdy's a year and dress in > >the 1835 to 1840 era style dress. What should I buy that would be period > >correct and were to get it? What about a Brown Bess Or Harper's Ferry. I > >need Some help here because I would like to have it in less than 30 days. > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Lone-Wolf > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jlynch@bcm.tmc.edu Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Date: 07 Apr 1999 12:07:56 +0000 Lone-Wolf, i could not be happier with my smoothey custom built by jackie brown. it's a northwest trade gun style with serpentine sideplate, queen anne lock, 20 gauge octagon to round hand forged 42" barrel, premium curly maple stock with brass trigger guard and butt plate. it's outshot many a smoothey and rifled alike. i hunt everything with it from deer to turkey. in my opinion there is no other gun. historically, by far, the most common gun on the frontier. the best part is the price, they run around $650. it would sure be worth your time giving him a call, his phone number's on his web site. http://www.moad.com/jbrown/ bill Lone-Wolf wrote: > Ok list here is the question I need help with. I now have $850 to spend on > a smooth Bore. What should I buy? I do about 8 rowdy's a year and dress in > the 1835 to 1840 era style dress. What should I buy that would be period > correct and were to get it? What about a Brown Bess Or Harper's Ferry. I > need Some help here because I would like to have it in less than 30 days. > Thanks in advance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David & Evelyn Mullen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: Fw: Date: 07 Apr 1999 11:36:10 -0600 Mr. Pickert, What does this have to do with the fur trade? You should be ashamed for subjecting your fellow list members to this kind of spam. YMHOS, David Mullen Richard Pickert wrote: > > Note: forwarded message attached. > > === > > Rick(Walks in the Night)Pickert > > >GAS OUT > > -- David Mullen 202 Mesa Verde Jemez Springs, NM 87025 505.829.3212 email:dmullen@jemez.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scissors Date: 07 Apr 1999 15:21:00 -0500 Joe,=20 I don't exactly have a source for you. =20 If I was looking I'd check The Thomas Register: http://www.thomasregis= te r.com:8000/index-new.html Hint: Look for Bonsai tree tools and supplies. John... At 11:00 AM 4/6/99 -0600, you wrote: >looking for a wholesale source for chinese scissors for our store. We do= n't >do mail order or trade at rendenzvous anymore, so I will not be competin= g >with other traders. You an email me personally. Will trade for other >sources. >Thanks >Joe > >Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery >Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440 >Write for custom tanning prices >We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and >hair on robes >Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, bask= ets >check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka >=20 John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< mail to: =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pat Laughlin" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scissors Date: 07 Apr 1999 14:06:02 -0700 can get them at harbor freight. Three sizes and run about $1. for the small ones and $5 for a set of 3. assembly varies from copper washer and steel rivet and other is steel rivet with plastic. Depends on what they have in. it may be a retail outlet but usually can beat whoesale prices on many things. -----Original Message----- Joe, I don't exactly have a source for you. If I was looking I'd check The Thomas Register: http://www.thomasregiste r.com:8000/index-new.html Hint: Look for Bonsai tree tools and supplies. John... At 11:00 AM 4/6/99 -0600, you wrote: >looking for a wholesale source for chinese scissors for our store. We don't >do mail order or trade at rendenzvous anymore, so I will not be competing >with other traders. You an email me personally. Will trade for other >sources. >Thanks >Joe > >Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery >Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440 >Write for custom tanning prices >We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and >hair on robes >Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets >check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka > John T. Kramer, maker of: Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< >>>As good as old!<<< mail to: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Date: 07 Apr 1999 16:15:23 -0600 Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore A Brown Bess is rather large and heavy and at 75 caliber, takes lots of = lead weight to carry very many balls. If you like the NW trade gun, but = find (like me) that the stock is too straight, look at a Chief's Grade = trade gun. 20 to 28 guage, mine is one fine gun, does everything I want = and just fancy enough to make me smile. Don Keas DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants RR1LA wrote: >check some of these suppliers. i can personally recommend Tennessee = Valley = >Mfg and CentreMark for prooducing both rifles and smoothbores that are = good = >quality and very fairly priced. = > > Shooter's = Resources = >(a very comprehensive listing of many makers) > JP Gunstocks, Inc., = Muzzleloading = >Rifles - Pistols - Smooth Bores > > TVM (Tennessee Valley = Manufacturing) > BP Vendors = = >(another comprehensive listing) > >Hope this helps, YHS, Barney Fife > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with = ESMTP > (SMTPD32-5.01) id A1F75490050; Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:41:27 -0600 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10Uk9U-00050J-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:41:24 -0600 > Received: from [198.81.17.69] (helo=3Dimo25.mx.aol.com) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10Uk9S-0004zn-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:41:22 -0600 > Received: from RR1LA@aol.com > by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.4) id fKEVa17550 > for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:15:09 -0400 (= EDT) > From: RR1LA@aol.com > Message-ID: <40e0debc.243c35cd@aol.com> > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:15:09 EDT > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > X-RCPT-TO: > X-UIDL: 449 > Status: U > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Plew Date: 07 Apr 1999 16:53:15 -0600 NaugaMok@aol.com wrote: >>Does anyone know the origin of the term "plew"? Did it come from the French? If so, when was it first used?<< From _A Dictionary of Canadianisms, on Historical Principles_, Walter S. D-avis, editor-in-chief (Gage Educational Publishing Co., 1991, ISBN 0-7715-1976-10): "Plu, plus, or plues (from Canadian French, from French 'pelu' meaning skin, pelt) : Also spelled 'plew', 'plue', and (erroneously) 'plus', the last form being a plural form, used along with plews, plues. 1. a prime beaver skin or other fur of equivalent value. See also 'made beaver'. ...2. a unit of value of one made beaver applied to goods other than furs.." The earliest example given for meaning #1 comes from 1800; for meaning #2, the earliest example is from 1794. This jibes with what I recall from my reading of journals from this time period. Also, 'pelu' seems to be archaic or obscure French, as I cannot find it in my modern French dictionary. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Date: 07 Apr 1999 11:20:49 -0600 Howdy Lone Wolfe, Would be a bit hard to get a Harpers Ferry smooth bore. I favor the .60 to .62 calibers (20ga). Less lead down range, but will still upset an Elk quite easily. Might chech out Caywood, Brown or Curley Gostomskis old out fit now moved out west, North Star West. I have had no dealings with Northstar West, but had good luck with Curleys products.( Locks are some weak, but they have taken several Bull Elk for me) Good luck in your search. There are many fine builders out there. BTW Bob G of Thunder Ridge had a beautiful custom built North West Trade gun a few weeks back, might check with him, I'll guarantee the price was right. I sure would have been proud to own it. You can contact Bob at http://www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder I use my "Bess" for targets and clay bird shooting, but have not really hunted anything but rabbits with it. Use the VM Starr wadding method (minus the spitting down the barrel) and # 6 shot. Puts meat on the table for me. Respectfully, C.Webb > I now have $850 to spend on >a smooth Bore. What should I buy? > What about a Brown Bess Or Harper's Ferry. > Thanks in advance. >Lone-Wolf > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sean" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Date: 07 Apr 1999 20:06:09 -0400 I, too, have a Chiefs Trade Gun (with rear sight) and it shoots great. I saw several originals just like it at the MFT last summer. Aye Don... it will definately make one smile when shooting it. The NMLRA bitches and won't let me shoot it in matches... old argument about a rear sight... But I love her and she do shoot straight. I think I paid $750 for mine 2 years ago... Addison Miller -----Original Message----- > Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore >A Brown Bess is rather large and heavy and at 75 caliber, takes lots of lead weight to carry very many balls. If you like the NW trade gun, but find (like me) that the stock is too straight, look at a Chief's Grade trade gun. 20 to 28 guage, mine is one fine gun, does everything I want and just fancy enough to make me smile. Don Keas > >DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants > >RR1LA wrote: >>check some of these suppliers. i can personally recommend Tennessee Valley >Mfg and CentreMark for prooducing both rifles and smoothbores that are good >quality and very fairly priced. > >> Shooter's Resources >(a very comprehensive listing of many makers) >> JP Gunstocks, Inc., Muzzleloading >Rifles - Pistols - Smooth Bores >> >> TVM (Tennessee Valley Manufacturing) >> BP Vendors >(another comprehensive listing) >> >>Hope this helps, YHS, Barney Fife >> >> >> >>RFC822 header >>----------------------------------- >> >> Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with ESMTP >> (SMTPD32-5.01) id A1F75490050; Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:41:27 -0600 >> Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) >> id 10Uk9U-00050J-00 >> for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:41:24 -0600 >> Received: from [198.81.17.69] (helo=imo25.mx.aol.com) >> by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) >> id 10Uk9S-0004zn-00 >> for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:41:22 -0600 >> Received: from RR1LA@aol.com >> by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.4) id fKEVa17550 >> for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:15:09 -0400 (EDT) >> From: RR1LA@aol.com >> Message-ID: <40e0debc.243c35cd@aol.com> >> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:15:09 EDT >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore >> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 >> Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Precedence: bulk >> Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> X-RCPT-TO: >> X-UIDL: 449 >> Status: U >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sean" Subject: MtMan-List: Cut down Charlie Date: 07 Apr 1999 20:11:47 -0400 I have a Charleville (sp) that I want to make a carbine out of. Actually, I only want to cut off about 14" or so... I do Oglethorpes Independent Rangers (SC and GA) and we were mounted instead of on foot. A long Charlie goin thru the woods on a horse ain't cool! Almost got knowked on my butt when the Charlie was longer than the distance between the trees... Any background on whether this was done or not? No one in my unit knows for sure, but most have gone and cuttheirs down already. Time frame is 1720-1742... Than ks Addison Miller ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Douglas Hepner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Honey Date: 07 Apr 1999 19:31:22 -0500 Barbara wrote... ---------- > From: Barbara Smith > To: history > Subject: MtMan-List: Honey > Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 1:11 AM > > Hey, any great tips on how to transport honey? I put mine in a glass > bottle with a cork, and no matter who nicely it's packed in my cassette, > it always tips over, oozes past the cork, and gets on everything! It's > become a huge joke with my friends. I hate to give up packing it, but > even crystalized it makes a mess. Help! :-) > > YMDS > -Tassee > Try pouring hot wax on top of the honey and let it cool before corking it. YMOS "Dull Hawk" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Douglas Hepner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: claw question Date: 07 Apr 1999 20:18:39 -0500 I've been told that placing them on ant mounds works well. I would think that you would have to devise a way to keep other kritters from stealing them though. Anyway, just a suggestion. YMOS "Dull Hawk" ---------- > From: Pulakabayo@aol.com > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: claw question > Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 6:23 PM > > OK, I've pulled a half dozen claws out of the hide, now I'm not sure what I to > do with them. > > I'd like to dry them and string them into a neckless, but I'd appreciate some > advice on how to get the excess meat off them and how to preserve them to they > will last a while. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight Date: 07 Apr 1999 22:09:16 -0700 I believe I recently saw some rear sighted shooting take place at an NMLRA event and was curious about whether the sights were just overlooked or whether there are some overzealous judgements being made. Are we certain that fixed rear sights were not fabricated and used by pre-1840 gunsmiths and/or gun owners? Forgive me if I've just kicked a well-worn topic, but I don't see all that great and would like to hit what I aim at while remaining appropriate. Tom sean wrote: > I have a Chiefs Trade Gun (with rear sight) The NMLRA bitches and > won't let me shoot it in matches... old argument about a rear sight... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sean" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight Date: 07 Apr 1999 22:32:37 -0400 When I was at the MFT last summer, many of the Trade Guns had rear sights. Many were obviously added later and rather crudely, I might add... but the Chiefs Trade Gun, just like mine, had rear sights and the looked to be "factory OEM". I have not found anything that said the weren't made with them, but, I have also not found any documentation that said they were. Addison -----Original Message----- >I believe I recently saw some rear sighted shooting take place at an NMLRA event >and was curious about whether the sights were just overlooked or whether there >are some overzealous judgements being made. Are we certain that fixed rear >sights were not fabricated and used by pre-1840 gunsmiths and/or gun owners? >Forgive me if I've just kicked a well-worn topic, but I don't see all that great >and would like to hit what I aim at while remaining appropriate. > >Tom > > >sean wrote: > >> I have a Chiefs Trade Gun (with rear sight) The NMLRA bitches and >> won't let me shoot it in matches... old argument about a rear sight... > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight Date: 07 Apr 1999 19:31:29 -0700 Hello Camp, When Charley Hanson was still at the museum in Chardon, we had this talk about rear sights many times. I was interested as I have several originals, one pre-1813 Sutherland tradegun has a rear sight that is part of the barrel, not dovetailed or sweat on. It is a piece of the barrel that has been turned up from the top flat of the barrel, cleaned up and notched. According to Hanson he had never found any doc. that showed manufactures supplying or being ordered to supply rear sites, and felt that these rear sighted guns were done after leaving the factory by company gunsmiths, blacksmiths, etc. (company meaning HBC,NWC, etc. or a trader or supplier). Over the years with all the baloney we have heard about this, many of the bigger events and associations are holding two matches, one with rear sights and one without rear sights. This maybe what you saw at the mentioned event. With everything I have researched on my personal page about tradeguns, and I mean a pile of books, articles and letters from the Museum of the Fur Trade, nothing showed anyone ordering a rear sight on a tradegun or chief's gun. I afraid what Hanson said as well as other's more knowledgeable on the subject, rear sighted tradeguns was after market as we would say today. Buck Conner > I believe I recently saw some rear sighted shooting take place at an NMLRA event > and was curious about whether the sights were just overlooked or whether there > are some overzealous judgements being made. Are we certain that fixed rear Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight Date: 07 Apr 1999 19:38:04 -0700 Damn Buck, you told the boys about your years of research and your close friend Charles Hanson and his thoughts on the matter, but left off your web site. Check it out boys, there's lots of work that went into this information. http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Turtle ________________________ > > Hello Camp, > > When Charley Hanson was still at the museum in Chardon, we had this talk about rear sights many times. I was interested as I have several originals, one pre-1813 Sutherland tradegun has a rear sight that is part of the barrel, not dovetailed or sweat on. It is a piece of the barrel that has been turned up from the top flat of the barrel, cleaned up and notched. > > According to Hanson he had never found any doc. that showed manufactures supplying or being ordered to supply rear sites, and felt that these rear sighted guns were done after leaving the factory by company gunsmiths, blacksmiths, etc. (company meaning HBC,NWC, etc. or a trader or supplier). > > Over the years with all the baloney we have heard about this, many of the bigger events and associations are holding two matches, one with rear sights and one without rear sights. This maybe what you saw at the mentioned event. > > With everything I have researched on my personal page about tradeguns, and I mean a pile of books, articles and letters from the Museum of the Fur Trade, nothing showed anyone ordering a rear sight on a tradegun or chief's gun. I afraid what Hanson said as well as other's more knowledgeable on the subject, rear sighted tradeguns was after market as we would say today. > > Buck Conner > > > I believe I recently saw some rear sighted shooting take place at an NMLRA event > > and was curious about whether the sights were just overlooked or whether there > > are some overzealous judgements being made. Are we certain that fixed rear > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight Date: 07 Apr 1999 22:41:36 -0400 Turtle... Yer gonna swell his head... D PS..The site Has entertained me for many an hour.. He IS right.... "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -----Original Message----- >Damn Buck, you told the boys about your years of research and your close friend Charles Hanson and his thoughts on the matter, but left off your web site. > >Check it out boys, there's lots of work that went into this information. > >http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html > >Turtle >________________________ >> >> Hello Camp, >> >> When Charley Hanson was still at the museum in Chardon, we had this talk about rear sights many times. I was interested as I have several originals, one pre-1813 Sutherland tradegun has a rear sight that is part of the barrel, not dovetailed or sweat on. It is a piece of the barrel that has been turned up from the top flat of the barrel, cleaned up and notched. >> >> According to Hanson he had never found any doc. that showed manufactures supplying or being ordered to supply rear sites, and felt that these rear sighted guns were done after leaving the factory by company gunsmiths, blacksmiths, etc. (company meaning HBC,NWC, etc. or a trader or supplier). >> >> Over the years with all the baloney we have heard about this, many of the bigger events and associations are holding two matches, one with rear sights and one without rear sights. This maybe what you saw at the mentioned event. >> >> With everything I have researched on my personal page about tradeguns, and I mean a pile of books, articles and letters from the Museum of the Fur Trade, nothing showed anyone ordering a rear sight on a tradegun or chief's gun. I afraid what Hanson said as well as other's more knowledgeable on the subject, rear sighted tradeguns was after market as we would say today. >> >> Buck Conner >> >> > I believe I recently saw some rear sighted shooting take place at an NMLRA event >> > and was curious about whether the sights were just overlooked or whether there >> > are some overzealous judgements being made. Are we certain that fixed rear >> > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight Date: 07 Apr 1999 19:50:17 -0700 For shame, for shame, you can't swell that head with nice remarks, a nailed butt plate from a tradegun would work - only kidding Buck, you did a great job on that site. Powderhawk > > Turtle... Yer gonna swell his head... > > D > > PS..The site Has entertained me for many an hour.. He IS right.... > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > -----Original Message----- > From: turtle@uswestmail.net > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 10:39 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight > > > >Damn Buck, you told the boys about your years of research and your close > friend Charles Hanson and his thoughts on the matter, but left off your web > site. > > > >Check it out boys, there's lots of work that went into this information. > > > >http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html > > > >Turtle > >________________________ > >> > >> Hello Camp, > >> > >> When Charley Hanson was still at the museum in Chardon, we had this talk > about rear sights many times. I was interested as I have several originals, > one pre-1813 Sutherland tradegun has a rear sight that is part of the > barrel, not dovetailed or sweat on. It is a piece of the barrel that has > been turned up from the top flat of the barrel, cleaned up and notched. > >> > >> According to Hanson he had never found any doc. that showed manufactures > supplying or being ordered to supply rear sites, and felt that these rear > sighted guns were done after leaving the factory by company gunsmiths, > blacksmiths, etc. (company meaning HBC,NWC, etc. or a trader or supplier). > >> > >> Over the years with all the baloney we have heard about this, many of the > bigger events and associations are holding two matches, one with rear sights > and one without rear sights. This maybe what you saw at the mentioned event. > >> > >> With everything I have researched on my personal page about tradeguns, > and I mean a pile of books, articles and letters from the Museum of the Fur > Trade, nothing showed anyone ordering a rear sight on a tradegun or chief's > gun. I afraid what Hanson said as well as other's more knowledgeable on the > subject, rear sighted tradeguns was after market as we would say today. > >> > >> Buck Conner > >> > >> > I believe I recently saw some rear sighted shooting take place at an > NMLRA event > >> > and was curious about whether the sights were just overlooked or > whether there > >> > are some overzealous judgements being made. Are we certain that fixed > rear > >> > > > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight Date: 07 Apr 1999 23:14:13 EDT On Wed, 07 Apr 1999 22:09:16 -0700 Tom Roberts writes: >I believe I recently saw some rear sighted shooting take place at an >NMLRA event >and was curious about whether the sights were just overlooked or >whether there >are some overzealous judgements being made. Are we certain that fixed >rear >sights were not fabricated and used by pre-1840 gunsmiths and/or gun >owners? >Forgive me if I've just kicked a well-worn topic, but I don't see all >that great >and would like to hit what I aim at while remaining appropriate. > >Tom does not matter if you can document rear sights on smooth bores---it has been a rule in NMLRA trade gun matches ever since i can remember "No Rear Sights Above the plain of the barrel" to get around this some of the guys have groved the rear of the barrel and some use the tang screw as long as it does not extend above the plain of the barrel---another good trick to use for sights is to use two fingers your pointing finger and thumb and when you hold the rifle let these two finghts come together on the barrel to form a rear sight---works for me for long range shooting---100 yd and such---hand always goes to the same place and I use the same grip---neat trick I learned from Pappy Horn---and he has won a bunch of trade gun matches at friendship and usto build a hell of a shooting trade gun--- "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: Fw: Date: 08 Apr 1999 02:57:48 EDT Gee, is this legit? Prices are pretty low round here..and does it have anything to do with the price of beaver pelt in 1830? :) In a message dated 99-04-07 11:08:16 EDT, you write: << > >GAS OUT > > THE GREAT "GAS OUT" >It's time we did something about the price >of gasoline in America! We are all sick and >tired of high prices when there are literally >millions of gallons in storage. >Know what I found out? If there was just >ONE day when no one purchased any gasoline, >prices would drop drastically. >The so-called oil cartel has decided to >slow production by some 2 million barrels >per day to drive up the price. I have decided >to see how many Americans we can get >to NOT BUY ANY GASOLINE on one particular day! >Let's have a GAS OUT! Do not buy any gasoline >on APRIL 30, 1999!!!!! >Buy on Thursday before, or Saturday after. >Do not buy any gasoline on FRIDAY, APRIL 30, 1999. >Wanna help? Send this message to >everyone you know. Ask them to do the same. All >we need is a few million to participate in >order to make a difference. >Let me know how many you will send out. >We CAN make a difference. > >Thanks. > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: Fw: Date: 08 Apr 1999 06:37:53 -0500 It has nothing to do with beaver pelts in 1830 or in 1999. It isn't = even legit. What inpact does anybody think it would have to boycott gas = stations on a given day, if on the day before everybody topped off their = tanks to be sure they had enough gas to drive around on boycott = day....and if on the day following boycott day everybody replenished the = gas they burned up on boycot day? Does anybody really think the gas = companies would even notice, never mind come crashing to their knees? = It's baderdash!!!=20 Lanney Ratcliff -----Original Message----- >Gee, is this legit? Prices are pretty low round here..and does it have = >anything to do with the price of beaver pelt in 1830? :) > > >In a message dated 99-04-07 11:08:16 EDT, you write: > ><< > > >GAS OUT > > > > THE GREAT "GAS OUT" > >It's time we did something about the price > >of gasoline in America! We are all sick and > >tired of high prices when there are literally > >millions of gallons in storage. > >Know what I found out? If there was just > >ONE day when no one purchased any gasoline, > >prices would drop drastically. > >The so-called oil cartel has decided to > >slow production by some 2 million barrels > >per day to drive up the price. I have decided > >to see how many Americans we can get > >to NOT BUY ANY GASOLINE on one particular day! > >Let's have a GAS OUT! Do not buy any gasoline > >on APRIL 30, 1999!!!!! > >Buy on Thursday before, or Saturday after. > >Do not buy any gasoline on FRIDAY, APRIL 30, 1999. > >Wanna help? Send this message to > >everyone you know. Ask them to do the same. All > >we need is a few million to participate in > >order to make a difference. > >Let me know how many you will send out. > >We CAN make a difference. > > > >Thanks. > > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: claw question Date: 08 Apr 1999 09:27:12 EDT Just like the cleaned beaver skulls you saw me with this last week end. I first put them in a wire cage. TrapRJoe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight Date: 08 Apr 1999 09:29:20 -0600 Hello all, I had much the same conversations over the years as Buck C. did with Mr. Hanson, I have always felt he was the best authority on trade guns (smoothe bores) alive. Now that he has gone under I miss tremendously not being able to pick up the phone and chat with him, I also miss those many hours spent with him in his office in Chadron, him in his jump suit an all. I came away with the idea that the rear sight on a smoothe bore was indeed an after market addition, regardless of the method of application. I personally find no fault with anyone who chooses to use them, I simply choose not to. About six months before Mr. Hanson passed away, we discussed a qustion I had concerning an early original H.B.C. North West trade gun that I was doing some wood restoration work on. The gun itself was nearly pristine, looked like it had just come from the builder except for a few spots of dry rot around the top pipe. The barrel had a wonderful patina however had a nasty gash just in front of the breech plug, too far back I thought for a sight. Looked like the gun had been dropped on the bumper of a Model A. I sent Mr. Hanson close up photographs of the gun and gash, when he got back to me, he was chuckling a bit and said you aren't looking close enough. The gash was a blacksmith applied chisel cut that curled up from the barrel to form a rear sight, the center filed notch was was quite noticable with a # 7 Viserview. A later owner of the gun had taken his trusty hammer and peened the curled up sight back down against the barrel. "UGLY" There are many of the trade guns displayed at the museum that show this blacksmith formed sight, however none are as crude as the gash on the old shooter I worked on. Respectfully, C Webb CC CO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight Date: 08 Apr 1999 09:59:41 -0700 Many of us from Colorado would make yearly trips to the Museum Of the Fur Trade to talk to Mr. Hanson (I made a dozen trips while living in Colorado and half of them with Mr. Conner and crew), Buck would call Charley and he would get rooms at the Best Western for the whole group. Mr. & Mrs. Hanson would go to dinner on us, what nice people. Like Buck and Mr. Webb have stated, I have heard Mr. Hanson refer to the rear sight question as after market additions. Buck bought 2 barrels from junk tradeguns that could not be repaired, one with the blacksmith work and the other a smooth standard un-sighted barrel. I ask what he planned to do with them as they were not cheap. He wanted them for talks on tradeguns to different groups, at the time he would do men's clubs, historical society meetings, etc. Buck if you read this do you still have the barrels, if so put them on this hist_list. Would be a good example of what we are talking about. Turtle Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Don "Pappy" Horne Date: 08 Apr 1999 11:02:12 -0600 Hey Hawk, I also have some fine memories of Pappy Horne, I might even sell the farm just to hold one of his 1803 Harpers Ferry's or smoothe bore shooters again. Ole Pappy most likey forgot more about Lewis and Clark and the Corps Of Discovery than most of us will ever know!! Folks we don't realize what treasures some of these old guys are until they have done gone under, what a wealth of knowledge we let slip through our fingers when these folks ford their last stream. What a shame!! Respectfully, C. Webb CC CO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wren Phillips" Subject: MtMan-List: Keepsake Biscuits Date: 08 Apr 1999 20:39:18 GMT I'm baking tonight, everyone wish me luck. th' rookie, Wren _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: Upcoming Pacific Northwest Doings Date: 08 Apr 1999 20:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Skagit Muzzle Loaders 1999 Rendezvous When: April 23 - 25 Where: Skagit County, Wa. near Sedro Woolley Details: Trail Walk for Rifle, Pistol, Hawk & Knife. Stew Pot. Candle shoot, Meat, Cannon. Fees: Family $30, Adult $20, Camping(nonshooter) $15 More Info? Contact: http://home1.gte.net/kahlstro/ronde2.htm Pres: Snady Goin (360)856-4273 Sec: Darrell McClenahan (425)670-1712 Booshway: Mike Edsson (360)293-9782 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Date: 08 Apr 1999 21:26:28 -0600 Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Mine has a rear sight too and they were not all that uncommon. But, that tells you something about the NMLRA and why they are not in the rendezvous business any more. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants sean wrote: >I, too, have a Chiefs Trade Gun (with rear sight) and it shoots great. I >saw several originals just like it at the MFT last summer. Aye Don... it >will definately make one smile when shooting it. The NMLRA bitches and >won't let me shoot it in matches... old argument about a rear sight... But I >love her and she do shoot straight. I think I paid $750 for mine 2 years >ago... > >Addison Miller > >-----Original Message----- >From: Phyllis and Don Keas >To: hist_text >Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 6:12 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore > > >> Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore >>A Brown Bess is rather large and heavy and at 75 caliber, takes lots of >lead weight to carry very many balls. If you like the NW trade gun, but >find (like me) that the stock is too straight, look at a Chief's Grade trade >gun. 20 to 28 guage, mine is one fine gun, does everything I want and just >fancy enough to make me smile. Don Keas >> >>DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants >> >>RR1LA wrote: >>>check some of these suppliers. i can personally recommend Tennessee Valley >>Mfg and CentreMark for prooducing both rifles and smoothbores that are good >>quality and very fairly priced. > >>> Shooter's >Resources >(a very comprehensive listing of many makers) >>> JP Gunstocks, Inc., Muzzleloading >>Rifles - Pistols - Smooth Bores >>> >>> TVM (Tennessee Valley >Manufacturing) >>> BP Vendors >>(another comprehensive listing) >>> >>>Hope this helps, YHS, Barney Fife >>> >>> >>> >>>RFC822 header >>>----------------------------------- >>> >>> Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with >ESMTP >>> (SMTPD32-5.01) id A1F75490050; Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:41:27 -0600 >>> Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) >>> id 10Uk9U-00050J-00 >>> for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:41:24 -0600 >>> Received: from [198.81.17.69] (helo=imo25.mx.aol.com) >>> by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) >>> id 10Uk9S-0004zn-00 >>> for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:41:22 -0600 >>> Received: from RR1LA@aol.com >>> by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.4) id fKEVa17550 >>> for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:15:09 -0400 (EDT) >>> From: RR1LA@aol.com >>> Message-ID: <40e0debc.243c35cd@aol.com> >>> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:15:09 EDT >>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore >>> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>> MIME-Version: 1.0 >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 >>> Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>> Precedence: bulk >>> Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>> X-RCPT-TO: >>> X-UIDL: 449 >>> Status: U >>> >> >> >> > > > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with ESMTP > (SMTPD32-5.01) id A25E1CF0100; Wed, 07 Apr 1999 18:03:42 -0600 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10V2I7-0004HA-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:03:31 -0600 > Received: from [206.102.200.11] (helo=mercury.peganet.net ident=root) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10V2I3-0004GK-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:03:27 -0600 > Received: from seans-puter (peg28-ts85.peganet.com [206.100.65.135]) > by mercury.peganet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA11954 > for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:03:24 -0400 (EDT) > Message-ID: <002601be8153$9d1636e0$874164ce@seans-puter> > From: "sean" > To: > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:06:09 -0400 > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > X-RCPT-TO: > X-UIDL: 471 > Status: U > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: terry l landis Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Upcoming Pacific Northwest Doings Date: 08 Apr 1999 20:15:56 -0700 thanks lee. i never did get in there to pick up those flyers. too busy rubber necking i guess. hope to see you there. YMHS, Terry (muskrat) Landis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight Date: 08 Apr 1999 20:48:38 -0700 I traded the barrels to Charley Hanson about two years before he died for some other fur trade items that he had extra on, at the museum. Sorry, but if you look in some of the Quarterlies there are pictures of "after market rear sights" and standard smooth flats at the breech (no sights). Good project for one of you to look up and put on the net. I've been so busy with filling orders for heirloom seeds this late in the year, myself and the suppliers have never seen such a year for the old seeds. Maybe they're loaden them in them smoothbores and plantin' munches of em at one time ! Buck Conner dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. ________________ bought 2 barrels from junk tradeguns that could not be repaired, one with the blacksmith work and the other a smooth standard un-sighted barrel. do you still have the barrels, if so put them on this hist_list. Would be a good example of what we are talking about. http://www.uswestmail.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Don "Pappy" Horne Date: 09 Apr 1999 00:25:14 EDT if you get my way let me know and i will let you fondel my 28 gage chiefs rifle---- I argued with pappy for 2 years about what i wanted in a trade gun and to no avail---finally we agreed on a 28 gage that was all we agreed on---I had old man boskain kallispil MT. build me a barrel and darn it took some talking for him to make me a 28 gage that would shoot .535 round ball with a .015 pillow ticking---and 44 " long no less---got the barrel took it to pappy at Oka valley and he said would put it together when he had time and for me to look him up at friendship in the spring---he might have it finished by then---cought pappy at friendship and he told me the gun was done and he had it with him but he wanted to test it in the trade gun matches---he won the matches and I shot the same gun and took second pappy had a faster flint and steel so he won by default---damnest trade gun i ever saw----shoots round ball like a rifle and shot pattern is outstanding---got to be fast on the birds---must have killed 25 turkeys to date and dont know how many doves and other flying critters have sucomed to its beller and smoke---still use the darn thing for turkey---and have killed a many a limit of doves in MO. and Kansas---killed a bunch of phesent in kansas and up around decatur Ill---pappy has given up building and bruce has come to the conclusion that scratching on ivery or horn is more profitable than making guns---a loss of another craftsman---pappy horn and dan anderson and a few others did 45 days of the lewis and clark treck---what a story---almost as good as coming down the misouria to the festival of the little hills---lest we forget the shining times---wish i had had a recorder and recorded all the stories from pappy, dan anderson and dale black---at least the foxfire people got a good base line on a couple of them---still remember the mountain man matches at oka valley---be ready for anything and carry what you need with you---was at dale black's first annual pig and goat shoot even shot the goat dale dressed it and we put it on the iron rod for cooking---remember the candel shoots that for a prize a pocket knife changed hands at least 20 times before it came to a true owner---we burn some powder and had shining memories of the good times---wish someone would do a article on pappy, bruce and don horn----saw pappy druel over vernon smith's 1803 and his scottish pistol---vern never did tell him all of his secrets---the 1803 is in texas being shot by vernon's boy now ----saw a bunch of folks swear it was original---"only the maker knows", this is craftsmanship---lots of research and doing it right. quality takes time and a compitent craftsman---BTW what is cc company--- they is close to me because pappy , dale black, dan anderson and hawk boureton are the ones who signed my ticket to join the AMM---and sponsered me. "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:02:12 -0600 "Charlie P. Webb" writes: >Hey Hawk, >I also have some fine memories of Pappy Horne, I might even sell >the farm just to hold one of his 1803 Harpers Ferry's or smoothe bore >shooters again. Ole Pappy most likey forgot more about Lewis and >Clark and the Corps Of Discovery than most of us will ever know!! >Folks we don't realize what treasures some of these old guys are until >they have done gone under, what a wealth of knowledge we let slip >through our fingers when these folks ford their last stream. What a >shame!! > >Respectfully, >C. Webb >CC CO ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Corey Tretteen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Upcoming Pacific Northwest Doings Date: 08 Apr 1999 23:40:03 -0700 For all us newbies on the list, how authentic is this Rendezvous? =20 Thanks, Corey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Neighbors Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Don "Pappy" Horne Date: 09 Apr 1999 09:40:02 -0500 Did not know about pappy sorry to hear. I remember sitting around the fire drinking mead . Yes he was great to listen to, learned alot from him myself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: CC CO Date: 09 Apr 1999 10:35:33 -0600 Howdy Hawk, The CC CO is simply to let folks know that for time being my lodge and hat are hanging in Canon City Colorado. Doing this is kind of a carry over from the cowboy action shooting list, the list members are from all over the world, so we kind of adopted the idea of letting folks know where we were from by using the cities initials and the state abbreviation, thus CC CO or StL MO. Formerly everyone took up a page and a half citing all their credentials and clubs they belonged to, which was alright for reading once but after reading fifty posts with everybodys wonderous accomplishments one wishes for a simpler method. Some still list everything, but a greater number just list the basics, City and State. I personally enjoy knowing where each list member resides, kind of makes each post a little more interesting for me. To hear how one does things in Florida contrasted to the way the same thing is done here in the shining mountains stimulates my thinking, and at times has caused me to modify a practice for someone else's better practice. Bottom line here I guess is that I like to know where list members are corresponding from. I suppose I am just nosey. <<>> Enjoyed your post on the Horne's, they still are "some punkins" to me. I had every opportunity to own one of "Pappy's" shooters, but just kept putting it off, now am sorry. Indeed I would enjoy fondeling your 28.ga. Have a great week end!!! Respectfully, C Webb CC CO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: delis@aztec.asu.edu (BRUCE S. DE LIS) Subject: MtMan-List: Williams Arizona Rendevou Date: 09 Apr 1999 10:25:01 -0700 (MST) Anyone on the list know of this event, and whom has the information on the 1999 event????? PP -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vic Barkin Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Williams Arizona Rendevou Date: 09 Apr 1999 11:32:52 -0700 (MST) This is a Porkeaters shoot, not a true Voo. If you want Primitive, The PHC will be putting on the Jed Smith Rendezvous (small, but good!, usually about 15 to 20 camps) at the same time. I'll get you more info as soon a s we nail down a site if your interested. It'll probably be somewhere south of Flagstaff and North of Phoenix. Vic >Anyone on the list know of this event, and >whom has the information on the 1999 >event????? > >PP > >-- Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin AMM #1534 Three Rivers Party "Aux aliments du pays!" Booshway of the Powderhorn Clan of Arizona Celebrating our 50th anniversary 1948-1998 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: CC CO Date: 09 Apr 1999 10:35:33 -0600 Howdy Hawk, The CC CO is simply to let folks know that for time being my lodge and hat are hanging in Canon City Colorado. Doing this is kind of a carry over from the cowboy action shooting list, the list members are from all over the world, so we kind of adopted the idea of letting folks know where we were from by using the cities initials and the state abbreviation, thus CC CO or StL MO. Formerly everyone took up a page and a half citing all their credentials and clubs they belonged to, which was alright for reading once but after reading fifty posts with everybodys wonderous accomplishments one wishes for a simpler method. Some still list everything, but a greater number just list the basics, City and State. I personally enjoy knowing where each list member resides, kind of makes each post a little more interesting for me. To hear how one does things in Florida contrasted to the way the same thing is done here in the shining mountains stimulates my thinking, and at times has caused me to modify a practice for someone else's better practice. Bottom line here I guess is that I like to know where list members are corresponding from. I suppose I am just nosey. <<>> Enjoyed your post on the Horne's, they still are "some punkins" to me. I had every opportunity to own one of "Pappy's" shooters, but just kept putting it off, now am sorry. Indeed I would enjoy fondeling your 28.ga. Have a great week end!!! Respectfully, C Webb CC CO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Keepsake Biscuits Date: 09 Apr 1999 20:09:09 -0500 How are the biscuits? Lanney Ratcliff -----Original Message----- >I'm baking tonight, everyone wish me luck.=20 > >th' rookie, > >Wren > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Keepsake Biscuits Date: 09 Apr 1999 22:09:29 -0400 Lanney, I thought you were on the ground this weekend?? D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -----Original Message----- How are the biscuits? Lanney Ratcliff -----Original Message----- >I'm baking tonight, everyone wish me luck. > >th' rookie, > >Wren > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Smith Subject: MtMan-List: Rear Sights and other unponderables Date: 09 Apr 1999 20:39:49 -0700 G'evenin' Gentlemen and Ladies! Forgive me. I only just bought my first gun since the cap gun my mama gave me when I was three. I do have a sight on it, and I believe it's "open iron", but I'm unsure if it's a "rear sight." Most of the events I've looked into shooting at specify "fixed open iron sights only," none have mentioned NO SIGHTS ALLOWED. Is this a concern only at NMLRA sponsored big deal doins' back east? Please enlighten this poor pilgrim! :-) By the way, Pendleton I got your lube and I'm off to try it out tomorrow morning. Thank you so much! I note the lack of wintergreen scent. Must be something other than chapstick! :-) Just kidding. The patch lube debate was of great interest to my backwoods ridge-runnin' Daddy in Lower Alabama. I've transmitted most of it to him and we're still discussing it. Since he just decided he's gotta build me a French Fusil (wheeee!!) I think I'll swear by whatever he tells me I oughta be usin' (at least over the phone)! Thank you again for your kindness in sending it to me, and I'll let you know what this poor untutored pilgrim thinks of it! YMDS -Tassee ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sean" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rear Sights and other unponderables Date: 10 Apr 1999 10:37:30 -0400 The "Rear Sight" debate by the NMLRA, and some of us on this list, refers to Trade Guns (smooth bore), not rifles. In "Trade Gun" matches, they do not allow you to use rear sights, only the front sight. This is a bone of contention with me and others, as we contend that some trade guns, as the Chiefs Trade Gun, DID have factory installed rear sights. *chuckles* I think this will be an on going battle for quite awhile.... I gave up arguing with them about it, so I just shoot my flinter rifle at the matches, and my Chiefs Trade Gun on the range here at home. Addison Miller -----Original Message----- >G'evenin' Gentlemen and Ladies! > >Forgive me. I only just bought my first gun since the cap gun my mama >gave me when I was three. I do have a sight on it, and I believe it's >"open iron", but I'm unsure if it's a "rear sight." Most of the events >I've looked into shooting at specify "fixed open iron sights only," none >have mentioned NO SIGHTS ALLOWED. Is this a concern only at NMLRA >sponsored big deal doins' back east? Please enlighten this poor >pilgrim! :-) > >By the way, Pendleton I got your lube and I'm off to try it out tomorrow >morning. Thank you so much! I note the lack of wintergreen scent. >Must be something other than chapstick! :-) Just kidding. The patch lube >debate was of great interest to my backwoods ridge-runnin' Daddy in >Lower Alabama. I've transmitted most of it to him and we're still >discussing it. Since he just decided he's gotta build me a French Fusil >(wheeee!!) I think I'll swear by whatever he tells me I oughta be usin' >(at least over the phone)! Thank you again for your kindness in sending >it to me, and I'll let you know what this poor untutored pilgrim thinks >of it! > >YMDS >-Tassee > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:27:37 -0500 Date: 11 Apr 1999 07:25:47 -0600 Is there a list of Ashley's 100? I would be very interested in seeing = it. Lanney Ratcliff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:27:37 -0500 Date: 11 Apr 1999 06:33:18 -0700 Good Morning Bud, your up bright & early. I'll see if I can find it, was in an early Buckskin Report. Buck _______________________ On Sun, 11 April 1999, "Ratcliff" wrote: > > Is there a list of Ashley's 100? I would be very interested in seeing it. > Lanney Ratcliff Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Lienemann" Subject: MtMan-List: RE: source material for early, (now) east Tennessee map horns Date: 11 Apr 1999 11:41:22 -0600 A friend who enjoys making horns is looking for some old maps showing paths, rivers, stations, fort layouts, etc from the now East Tennessee, Virginia, North Carolina area, as source material for trying some map and fort horns from this area, from earliest activity up through Rev War/Kings Mountain, etc. i have couple books, The OverMountain Men and The Wataugans i picked up back there. Do y'all have some suggestions on where he can find further maps with early names, etc? can reply to the list and i'll forward, or straight to Jerry at "yeti@bwn.net". thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Hunt" Subject: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 11 Apr 1999 13:56:05 -0700 Buck I see I`m not the only one who has kept the old buckskin and black powder reports, and some blackpowder cartridge reports. They come in handy at times for reference. jhunt1@one.net PS. With the saving of these books, does that make us gray beards????? "old farts????? "er what????? John (BIG JOHN) Hunt Longhunter Mountainman southwest Ohio ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Colleen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: source material for early, (now) east Tennes Date: 11 Apr 1999 12:50:45 -0500 >. Do y'all have some suggestions on where he can find further > maps with early names, etc? can reply to the list and i'll forward, or > straight to Jerry at "yeti@bwn.net". thanks. A great site is the University of Georgia Libraries: http://scarlett.libs.uga.edu/darchive/hargrett/maps/revamer.html Colleen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 11 Apr 1999 13:52:15 -0400 John, You are an old fart without saving anything... D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -----Original Message----- > Buck > I see I`m not the only one who has kept the old buckskin and black powder reports, and some blackpowder cartridge reports. They >come in handy at times for reference. > >jhunt1@one.net PS. With the saving of these books, does that make us gray beards????? "old farts????? "er what????? > > > > >John (BIG JOHN) Hunt >Longhunter >Mountainman >southwest Ohio > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 11 Apr 1999 15:44:03 -0400 Since I also have the "old editions", does that make me an old lady fart?? And I became "chemically" dependent on the hair many years ago. Linda Holley John Hunt wrote: > Buck > I see I`m not the only one who has kept the old buckskin and black powder reports, and some blackpowder cartridge reports. They > come in handy at times for reference. > > jhunt1@one.net PS. With the saving of these books, does that make us gray beards????? "old farts????? "er what????? > > John (BIG JOHN) Hunt > Longhunter > Mountainman > southwest Ohio ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: The Sweeneys Subject: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 11 Apr 1999 13:26:59 +0000 Hellooo Camp, I'm new to buckskinning, just started getting my gear together last year. Been to one rondy and do allot of trekking on my own. I've always enjoyed reading about the early frontier days and I see buckskinning as a way of learning all those primitive skills. I've never been hunting before and want to learn the old way. Can anyone recommend a good book on muzzleloader hunting and primitive butchering techniques for large game. Thanks in advance.. Mick Sweeney Brownsville, California (Sierra foothills) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 11 Apr 1999 16:20:56 EDT Linda writes: > Since I also have the "old editions", does that make me an old lady fart?? > And I became "chemically" dependent on the hair many years ago. Linda, There are no old lady farts. Women never keep their mouths shut long enough to build up any back pressure. Dave Kanger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John W. Stephens" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 11 Apr 1999 13:29:31 -0800 (We can tell who listened to Radio Boy yesterday). ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote: > > Linda writes: > > Since I also have the "old editions", does that make me an old lady fart?? > > And I became "chemically" dependent on the hair many years ago. > > Linda, > There are no old lady farts. Women never keep their mouths shut long enough > to build up any back pressure. > > Dave Kanger -- JW "LRay" Stephens, EPP Technician, Primary Color Systems, Inc., Irvine, CA ... ICQ# 20564775 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Prarie home companion Date: 11 Apr 1999 13:40:58 -0700 I heard the back pressure joke, too, on Prarie Home Companion.... My family is from Minnesota, Garrison Keilor always seems to be talking about my cousins, etc... Hardtack ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:27:37 -0500 Date: 11 Apr 1999 16:26:26 -0500 Thanks Buck, I would appreciate it. Lanney -----Original Message----- >Good Morning Bud, your up bright & early. > >I'll see if I can find it, was in an early Buckskin Report. > >Buck >_______________________ >On Sun, 11 April 1999, "Ratcliff" wrote: > >>=20 >> Is there a list of Ashley's 100? I would be very interested in = seeing it. >> Lanney Ratcliff > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account = http://www.uswestmail.net > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 11 Apr 1999 14:48:37 -0700 Dave, Is that why when they snore they sound hollow !!!! _________________ On Sun, 11 April 1999, "John W. Stephens" wrote: > > (We can tell who listened to Radio Boy yesterday). > > ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote: > > > > Linda writes: > > > Since I also have the "old editions", does that make me an old lady fart?? > > > And I became "chemically" dependent on the hair many years ago. > > > > Linda, > > There are no old lady farts. Women never keep their mouths shut long enough > > to build up any back pressure. > > > > Dave Kanger > > -- > JW "LRay" Stephens, EPP Technician, Primary Color Systems, Inc., Irvine, CA > ... > ICQ# 20564775 Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 11 Apr 1999 14:58:46 -0700 I got issues #1 to the last ones of Buckskin Report and Black Powder Cart and American Rendezvous, all gone but the memories. What ever happened to John Baird (BSR & BPC), Dick Tetter (AR) and Dick House (wrote for all three), saw House and Tetter names a while back ? I guess we remember some good doin' and old friends, the reason for hanging on to these, as well as good references. I think the gray beards, hair or lack of it was from to many affairs with the above mentioned. Buck Colorado Territory ________________ On Sun, 11 April 1999, Linda Holley wrote: > > Since I also have the "old editions", does that make me an old lady fart?? > And I became "chemically" dependent on the hair many years ago. > > Linda Holley > > John Hunt wrote: > > > Buck > > I see I`m not the only one who has kept the old buckskin and black powder reports, and some blackpowder cartridge reports. They > > come in handy at times for reference. > > > > jhunt1@one.net PS. With the saving of these books, does that make us gray beards????? "old farts????? "er what????? > > > > John (BIG JOHN) Hunt > > Longhunter > > Mountainman > > southwest Ohio Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 11 Apr 1999 15:00:25 -0700 Cool It kid. ______________ On Sun, 11 April 1999, Dennis Miles wrote: > > John, > You are an old fart without saving anything... > D > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > -----Original Message----- > From: John Hunt > To: AMM discussion > Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 1:46 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: buckskin report > > > > Buck > > I see I`m not the only one who has kept the old buckskin and black > powder reports, and some blackpowder cartridge reports. They > >come in handy at times for reference. > > > >jhunt1@one.net PS. With the saving of these books, does that make us > gray beards????? "old farts????? "er what????? > > > > > > > > > >John (BIG JOHN) Hunt > >Longhunter > >Mountainman > >southwest Ohio > > > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 11 Apr 1999 15:02:26 -0700 John, The "Kid" (Dennis) hit the ground in 1960, we got warts older than him. Buck Colorado Territory ______________________ On Sun, 11 April 1999, Dennis Miles wrote: > > John, > You are an old fart without saving anything... > D > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > -----Original Message----- > From: John Hunt > To: AMM discussion > Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 1:46 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: buckskin report > > > > Buck > > I see I`m not the only one who has kept the old buckskin and black > powder reports, and some blackpowder cartridge reports. They > >come in handy at times for reference. > > > >jhunt1@one.net PS. With the saving of these books, does that make us > gray beards????? "old farts????? "er what????? > > > > > > > > > >John (BIG JOHN) Hunt > >Longhunter > >Mountainman > >southwest Ohio > > > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Douglas Hepner" Subject: MtMan-List: Hair Fringe Date: 11 Apr 1999 17:47:59 -0500 Can anyone positively, unquestionably document horse hair or human hair fringe being worn on clothing of the trappers of the Rocky Mountains (pre 1840 of course). Any info would be greatly appreciated! YMOS "Dull Hawk" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 11 Apr 1999 18:20:09 -0400 Yes Grampa... sorry.... "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -----Original Message----- >Cool It kid. >______________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron Chamberlain" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: source material for early, (now) east Tennes Date: 11 Apr 1999 18:05:31 -0600 Here's another map site I found last night. http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/histus.html YMOS, Lonewolf >>. Do y'all have some suggestions on where he can find further >> maps with early names, etc? can reply to the list and i'll forward, or >> straight to Jerry at "yeti@bwn.net". thanks. > > >A great site is the University of Georgia Libraries: > >http://scarlett.libs.uga.edu/darchive/hargrett/maps/revamer.html > >Colleen > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: OT-Re: MtMan-List:Prarie home companion Date: 12 Apr 1999 02:05:24 GMT On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:40:58 -0700, you wrote: >I heard the back pressure joke, too, on Prarie Home Companion.... My >family is from Minnesota, Garrison Keilor always seems to be talking >about my cousins, etc... Hardtack > 90% of the jokes they did came were posted on the alt.tasteless.jokes newsgroup over the last 4-6 weeks. Don't ask how I know this. BTW, if you ever do lurk that group, read the FAQ. Parts seem to have been written with buckskinners in mind.... Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith, Woodworker, and Collector. = My job gets in the way of my hobbies. =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 12 Apr 1999 02:10:44 GMT On 11 Apr 1999 14:58:46 -0700, you wrote: >I got issues #1 to the last ones of Buckskin Report and Black Powder = Cart and American Rendezvous, all gone but the memories. > >What ever happened to John Baird (BSR & BPC), Dick Tetter (AR) and Dick = House (wrote for all three), saw House and Tetter names a while back ? > >I guess we remember some good doin' and old friends, the reason for = hanging on to these, as well as good references. I think the gray beards,= hair or lack of it was from to many affairs with the above mentioned. > >Buck >Colorado Territory Buck, last I heard, and it has been several years, John Baird was working/running a living history farm somewhere in West Virginia. I got the info from Mt. State Muzzleloading (Randy?) when I happened to stop in while in that neck of the woods. TIFWIW, but maybe someone at MSM will have more recent info... Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith, Woodworker, and Collector. = My job gets in the way of my hobbies. =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tigrbo1 Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Upcoming Pacific Northwest Doings Date: 12 Apr 1999 01:42:59 -0700 --------------DD5EFB3E67B99A8ADEBE2FD5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Corey and List, Corey asked how authentic is the Skagit Muzzle Loaders 1999 Rendezvous. I have not been to this specific rendezvous but I have attended many events in the Washington area. I have found that events here are an amalgam of time periods ranging from 18th century Colonial to Civil War. Most people represent the Western Fir Trade era, 1800 to 1840 and the authenticity of costuming varies widely, from well thought out interpretations, to "RondeWare". As far as I have seen in Washington there are no period specific Rendezvous. (From date X to date Y) Most have the stipulation that your equipment and clothing be that which was used prior to 1840, if you want to camp in the primitive camping area. I have often seen one kind of "camp" with another type of "costume". The Rendezvous are generally shooting events with little attention paid to other aspects of life in the past. This doesn't mean that they aren't fun, you can meet new people, cruse dealers row, scope out the blanket traders ect., but you may have to pack your own fun if you are expecting a more "authentic" experience. What, may I ask are your interests? Best regards, Terry Smith --------------DD5EFB3E67B99A8ADEBE2FD5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Corey and List,

Corey asked how authentic is the Skagit Muzzle Loaders 1999  Rendezvous.  I have not been to this specific rendezvous but I have attended many events in the Washington area. I have found that events here are an amalgam of time periods ranging from 18th century Colonial to Civil War. Most people represent the Western Fir Trade era, 1800 to 1840 and the authenticity of costuming varies widely, from well thought out interpretations, to "RondeWare".

As far as I have seen in Washington there are no period specific Rendezvous. (From date X to date Y) Most have the stipulation that your equipment and clothing be that which was used prior to 1840, if you want to camp in the primitive camping area. I have often seen one kind of "camp" with another type of "costume". The Rendezvous are generally shooting events with little attention paid to other aspects of  life in the past. This doesn't mean that they aren't fun, you can meet new people, cruse dealers row, scope out the blanket traders ect., but you may have to pack your own fun if you are expecting a more "authentic" experience.

What, may I ask are your interests?

Best regards,

Terry Smith --------------DD5EFB3E67B99A8ADEBE2FD5-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: new web site for reenacters Date: 12 Apr 1999 06:54:44 -0700 Just found an interesting site and one of our members is writing articles for it ? Check it out. http://www.reenactorsworldplus.com/vol1.htm Turtle. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wren Phillips" Subject: MtMan-List: re: keepsake biscuits Date: 12 Apr 1999 16:51:36 GMT Lanney, The biscuits did great. Hubby said, he wasn't impressed, but of course he kept eating them. I found them very tasty. Followed the recipe to a T and had no problem. Considering the name, how long can I expect these to last? I truly appreciate the recipe and all the help. I am very new at buckskinning and I am looking forward to the education. Wren _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 12 Apr 1999 13:29:33 EDT mick go to the library and look at the foxfire series of books---book 5 is about muzzleloading rifles, bear hunting, black smithing, and other affairs of plain living YMHOSANT =+= "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:26:59 +0000 The Sweeneys writes: > > > Hellooo Camp, > > I'm new to buckskinning, just started getting my gear together >last >year. Been to one rondy and do allot of trekking on my own. I've >always >enjoyed reading about the early frontier days and I see buckskinning >as a way >of learning all those primitive skills. I've never been hunting >before and >want to learn the old way. Can anyone recommend a good book on >muzzleloader >hunting and primitive butchering techniques for large game. > >Thanks in advance.. > >Mick Sweeney >Brownsville, California (Sierra foothills) > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 12 Apr 1999 13:29:33 EDT linda I may be chemical dependent on some things but not the hair---and yes i get refered to as a old fart a lot also---linda you is a youngen yet face it---color of hair is the accent on the mountain---compared to a bunch of us on the list---best to you---got a box here for you just have to get it shipped a major thing around here--- will drop you a note offline when i get it shipped--- "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:44:03 -0400 Linda Holley writes: >Since I also have the "old editions", does that make me an old lady >fart?? >And I became "chemically" dependent on the hair many years ago. > >Linda Holley > >John Hunt wrote: > >> Buck >> I see I`m not the only one who has kept the old buckskin and >black powder reports, and some blackpowder cartridge reports. They >> come in handy at times for reference. >> >> jhunt1@one.net PS. With the saving of these books, does that >make us gray beards????? "old farts????? "er what????? >> >> John (BIG JOHN) Hunt >> Longhunter >> Mountainman >> southwest Ohio > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: re: keepsake biscuits Date: 12 Apr 1999 20:55:06 -0500 Wren The biscuits will keep for a couple of weeks, maybe more, depending on = the humidity. After a couple of days they get a little hard so I impale = them on a stick and heat them slowly over a fire, taking care not to get = them too close to the flame or the outside will burn before the inside = is heated. Hint: never tell your doctor about the recipe. Lanney ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 11:51 AM > Lanney, >=20 > The biscuits did great. Hubby said, he wasn't impressed, but of=20 > course he kept eating them. I found them very tasty. Followed the=20 > recipe to a T and had no problem. Considering the name, how long can=20 > I expect these to last? I truly appreciate the recipe and all the=20 > help. I am very new at buckskinning and I am looking forward to the=20 > education. >=20 > Wren >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 01:57:40 EDT In a message dated 99-04-11 16:18:15 EDT, you write: << I've never been hunting before and want to learn the old way. Can anyone recommend a good book on muzzleloader hunting and primitive butchering techniques for large game. >> Hawk recomended one of the best books -- #5 in the Foxfire series. Lots of hunting stories from the old timers. #5, I believe was printed in the late 1970's from school paper articles from about '75 on. All the people interviewed for the hunting stories were all up in years so their active hunting would have probably started in the '20's & '30's. You didn't say what you wanted to hunt. There are somewhat different techniques for each critter. One thing to keep in mind, it it'll work for a bow hunter, it'll work for us with out muzzle loaders in regard to stalking techniques, masking scents, calls, & such. For a primative scent mask, you can stick the clothes you're going to wear hunting in a garbage sack with a bunch of fresh sage brush for 3 or 4 days. That seems to work well out here in the west. IF your state laws allow (some states mandate the hunter orange), it's always nice to hunt muzzleloader season in costume. Keep the colors on the drab side -- walnut dyed shirt & brain tan pants work very well ---- IF LEGAL. Of course, remember the old warning about carrying anything white -- not a good idea. With careful stalking, you'll be surprised how close you can get to deer if they haven't been shot at too much. Almost all hunting instructions say get familiar with where you're going to hunt. Be observant in what your prey is eating & it's locations. Think logicaly -- if it's a nice sunny day after a cold night, look for your prey on the southern slopes -- they're cold too. If it's a hot day, look on the northern slopes in the shade. WEAR MOCS!!! You can move very quietly with them. Watch for water holes & game trails leading to them. These are usualy active in the evenings -- especaily in warm weather. We don't always get a choice about it, but if you can, hunt when the moon is 1/4 or less, the critters will be more active in day light. Primative butchering primarily means bone out everything except the ribs. They didn't use to have bone saws. Besides, bones have other uses if whole. You can use a small ax or hatchet to remove the ribs from the back & to split the brest bone -- watch your fingers!! To split the pelvic bone, you can either use the ax or a knife -- ax is easier. Be sure you remove the anus & colon before spliting the pelvis just as you would with more modern methods of cleaning. You can also watch for hunting stories in Muzzleloader & Muzzleblast Magazines -- some are pretty good. Unfortunately, there are more & more stories by people using the Knights & other nonprimative muzzle loaders, but their hunting techniques are still good even IF we don't like what they're shooting. Personaly, in hunting season, I like seeing the in-lines out in the field. Usualy the guys carrying them have only fired a few shots to set sights & actualy believe all the "super long range" crap touted in the advertising hype. Usualy, us "round ballers" KNOW where our rifles shoot & at what distances & know to keep our shots 100 yds or less. Keep in mind in a .50 cal, 80 gr of powder WILL kill a deer at 75 yds. Work out the most accurate load you can between 80 & 110 gr. (you'll probably find it'll be 90 - 100 gr) & place your shots where they count, & you'll "make meat". NM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "The Brooks" Subject: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 14 Apr 1999 08:12:41 +1200 >prey is eating & it's locations. Think logicaly -- if it's a nice sunny day >after a cold night, look for your prey on the southern slopes -- they're cold >too. If it's a hot day, look on the northern slopes in the shade. WEAR >MOCS!!! You can move very quietly with them. Watch for water holes & game >trails leading to them. These are usualy active in the evenings -- especaily Well said. Another small point. If you are carrying a backpack and decide to shed it when seeing a deer apart from the obvious in doing it out of sight and with minimum movement, don't drop it the animals can feel the thump through the ground and know something isn't right and go for broke. Place gentle if you have to at all.For what it is worth. Kia Ora Big Bear In cool dark Marlborough New Zealand. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 11:33:21 EDT On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:57:40 EDT NaugaMok@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 99-04-11 16:18:15 EDT, you write: > ><< I've never been hunting before and > want to learn the old way. Can anyone recommend a good book on >muzzleloader > hunting and primitive butchering techniques for large game. > >> > >Hawk recomended one of the best books -- #5 in the Foxfire series. as you see from NaugaMox reply you can almost write several books on hunting, running track , stalking, and the final dressing of your game---read all the foxfire series if you can get your hands on them---thank they are up to 11 or more now---#1 is hard cover and the rest are soft cover-- the foxfire is good and simple and a lot of good informatiive reading of the way things were done in earlier years--- best to you and keep your nose to the wind--- contact me offline if i can answer you any questions--- "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 09:33:11 -0700 Not only reading books, but there are lots of video's available that cover anything from tracking to cleaning. You may want to team up with someone from a local muzzleloading club that hunts, check with Fish & Game - they may have someone they work with through Hunter Safety Program or even someone on this list that's in your area. Books and videos are good, but having an experienced person to help show you the ropes is hard to beat. What area are you wanting to hunt and what area are you living in ? Over the years several of us have met some sportsmen that have turned out to be a credit to the modern muzzleloading crowd. I owned a muzzleloading store in northern Colorado (Buckhorn Rendezvous) with access to 300 acres. When we sold a muzzleloader to new shooters, one of us from the store would spend a few hours every Sat getting these customers comfortable with safety, loading, clearing and cleaning their weapons. We have had customers show up with gifts as well as pictures of their first game, that was as exciting as having hunted the animals ourselves. The best was a doctor from the local hospital driving in with his wife's custom van, in the back was a good 6 X 6 bull elk, wrapped in plastic - what a site. Buck Conner Colorado Territory Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 09:56:23 -0700 I have to agree a 100% with what Buck has stated about books, videos, and local F&G Dept. help, again I agree that the skills learned from an experienced person would be the most helpful, (go with someone that has a good track record - gets game). As far as what Buck wrote about his old store and customer relationships in the art of learning about a muzzleloader, there has been no better learning experience. They use to have a "picture wall" with customers, their guns and their gotten game- the 6X6 bull was a real good one. It was a sad day in northern CO when Buck closed that operation after so many fine years of customer service. I miss the good old days in Colorado and visiting the boys at Buckhorn Rendezvous - waugh .. Turtle ____________________ > Not only reading books, but there are lots of video's available that cover anything from tracking to cleaning. > > You may want to team up with someone from a local muzzleloading club that hunts, check with Fish & Game - they may have someone they work with through Hunter Safety Program or even someone on this list that's in your area. > > Books and videos are good, but having an experienced person to help show you the ropes is hard to beat. What area are you wanting to hunt and what area are you living in ? > > Over the years several of us have met some sportsmen that have turned out to be a credit to the modern muzzleloading crowd. I owned a muzzleloading store in northern Colorado (Buckhorn Rendezvous) with access to 300 acres. When we sold a muzzleloader to new shooters, one of us from the store would spend a few hours every Sat getting these customers comfortable with safety, loading, clearing and cleaning their weapons. > > We have had customers show up with gifts as well as pictures of their first game, that was as exciting as having hunted the animals ourselves. The best was a doctor from the local hospital driving in with his wife's custom van, in the back was a good 6 X 6 bull elk, wrapped in plastic - what a site. > > Buck Conner > Colorado Territory > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 10:25:50 -0700 Hey Turtle, Thanks for your comments about the store, remember you moved to PA, on second thought maybe you were asked to leave !!!! Only kidding Bud. Buck Conner Colorado Territory > I miss the good old days in Colorado and visiting the boys at Buckhorn Rendezvous - waugh .. > > Turtle Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 10:46:31 -0700 With all the baloney aside, and trying to help this young man in gaining experience, please consider what Hawk, Buck and yours truly have suggested: books, videos and proven successful experienced muzzleloading hunters. These steps are a sure fired way to learn and be successful at the old art of supplying your needs. Good luck in your search. Turtle PA Colonies Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 10:53:15 -0700 AGREEDED ; books, videos and proven successful experienced muzzleloading hunters. These steps are a sure fired way to learn and be successful at the old art of supplying your needs. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Upcoming Pacific Northwest Doings Date: 13 Apr 1999 15:09:48 -0700 Corey Tretteen wrote: > For all us newbies on the list, how authentic is this Rendezvous? > > Thanks, > > Corey Corey, Don't know if anyone else answered you yet but I just got in from a canoe trek on the Palouse and will give it a try. The Pacific and all such do's are tooted as pre 1840 which means that you are expected to dress and camp as folks would who were in the Rocky Mts. prior to 1840. That should be enough info for anyone to use to get their gear together but some will ask if they can get by with "this" or "that" piece of modern clothing or camp gear or what have you. If you can get a flier, it will tell you that what you need for medical reasons like glasses, crutches, medicines and such are allowed. Otherwise leave it at home. The Pacific and some others may have an area set aside for folks to use modern campers, and such but when they actually walk into the "primitive area" they are expected to be dressed accordingly. As to how authentic it is, there are going to be a lot of people there who have not done their home work and will be dressed old timey but not authentically. Usually nothing is said unless you are in cowboy boots, etc. If you have some particular questions, let me know and I will do my best to help. In any case, I will see you at the Pacific Nt. Rendezvous. I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TetonTod@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Andrew Henry's Route 1810-1811 Date: 13 Apr 1999 18:25:35 EDT Hello all I recently obtained a copy of a fascinating paper which was written and presented by Mr. Mark W. Kelly at the 51st Annual Pacific Northwest History Conference & Annual Conference of the Northwest Oral History Association held last April 23-25 in Boise. The title of the paper is "Andrew Henry, John Dougherty, and the St. Louis Missouri Fur Company: The Road from Three Forks, Montana to Henry's Fork of the Snake River, Idaho. A New Perspective." I obtained the paper from Dr. Fred Gowans at Brigham Young University, who also seemed excited about it's contents. Mr. Kelly will also be presenting this paper at the Jedediah Smith Symposium to be held next week in Stockton, California. As most of you may be aware historians, including such notables as Chittenden and Morgan, have always assumed that after the Blackfeet made trapping the Three Forks region much to risky, i.e., the death of George Droulliard , etc., that Andrew Henry led a portion of his men southward up the Madison River and over the continental divide and down to Henry's Fork where he established a post. Thus becoming the first American to carry the fur trade to the pacific side of the Rockies. One of the men who accompanied Henry was John Dougherty. Apparently Dougherty made a map of their travels from the time they left the Three Forks until the establishment of Henry's post. On the back of the map there is a narration further detailing the travels. The map and narration cast a whole new light on Henry's route and make for fascinating study if you are interested in these kinds of fur trade history details. The map was held in obscurity in the National Achives for over a century. Ralph E. Ehrenberg somehow learned of it's existence and wrote an article about it in the early 70's, yet it has continued to be largely overlooked. Perhaps Mr. Kelly's efforts will bring Dougherty's map more of the attention it deserves. I am discussing with Dean our webmaster about the possibility of posting the article and maps on the web site. I have obtained the authors consent, so it should happen. For those of you who are avid historians and just can't wait for that to happen and need to get a copy in your hands, contact me directly Happy Trails Todd D. Glover tetontod@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 13 Apr 1999 15:49:28 -0700 Linda Holley wrote: > Since I also have the "old editions", does that make me an old lady fart?? > And I became "chemically" dependent on the hair many years ago. > > Linda Holley Dear Lady, It is my understanding that "Ladies of Vintage" do not "fart". I do not concider you an old lady but in any case you may on occasion "fluff", you don't fart. I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: The Sweeneys Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 17:50:31 +0000 > > > Books and videos are good, but having an experienced person to help show you the ropes is hard to beat. What area are you wanting to hunt and what area are you living in ? > Thanks everyone for the good advise. I live in Brownsville California, in the Sierra foothills, about two hours drive northeast of Sacramento. As far as were I want to hunt, anywhere in the Sierras north of Yosemite. If there is anyone on the list in my area that does'nt mind teaching this here pilgrim, please let me know. Mick Sweeney P.O. Box 121 Brownsville, Ca. 95919 Angus@lostsierra.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: The Sweeneys Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 17:50:31 +0000 > > > Books and videos are good, but having an experienced person to help show you the ropes is hard to beat. What area are you wanting to hunt and what area are you living in ? > Thanks everyone for the good advise. I live in Brownsville California, in the Sierra foothills, about two hours drive northeast of Sacramento. As far as were I want to hunt, anywhere in the Sierras north of Yosemite. If there is anyone on the list in my area that does'nt mind teaching this here pilgrim, please let me know. Mick Sweeney P.O. Box 121 Brownsville, Ca. 95919 Angus@lostsierra.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 18:52:33 -0700 Sounds like some of you boys may have just found a camp hand and new gut man for cleanup. I can remember those days when first getting started, along with many chores that didn't make sense at the time but turned out to be good sound advice down the road, good luck Mick Sweeney. Give it your best shot at learning a number of new skills. Buck Colorado Territory Come-on lets hear from some of you boys in his neck of the woods, we were all in his spot at one time on this journey. ______________________ > > Books and videos are good, but having an experienced person to help show you the ropes is hard to beat. What area are you wanting to hunt and what area are you living in ? > > > > Thanks everyone for the good advise. I live in Brownsville California, in the Sierra foothills, about two hours drive northeast of Sacramento. As far as were I want to hunt, anywhere in the Sierras north of Yosemite. If there is anyone on the list in my area that does'nt mind teaching this here pilgrim, please let me know. > > Mick Sweeney > P.O. Box 121 > Brownsville, Ca. 95919 > Angus@lostsierra.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 19:01:45 -0700 Buck, your still the old mother hen you were 15 years ago when I would listen to you. I've heard him get more greenhorn's started this way, he was nice in how he referred to your chores, in the service you were referred to as a "grunt". You'll learn Mick, that one learns from one's mistakes, but you do learn. Turtle PA Colony _______________ > Sounds like some of you boys may have just found a camp hand and new gut man for cleanup. I can remember those days when first getting started, along with many chores that didn't make sense at the time but turned out to be good sound advice down the road, good luck Mick Sweeney. > > Mick Sweeney > > P.O. Box 121 > > Brownsville, Ca. 95919 > > Angus@lostsierra.net > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Farseer Subject: MtMan-List: Another Greenhorn question Date: 13 Apr 1999 21:00:47 -0500 I saw this post in the archives, but I am curious to know both sides. = I've heard that most mountain men did NOT have beards. Alfred Millers = paintings showed a handful of beards, mostly short, like goatees (like = yours truly), but the author of the collection I have (The 1837 = Sketchbook of the Western Fur Trade) states flat out most 'skinners were = clean-shaven, like the indians whose dress they imitated. In the Book = of Buckskinnging,Vol I, J.W. (Doc) Carlson says the same thing. = Others seem to have the opposite opinion. So which is it? and I = apologize if I opened up a can of worms. Todd (Who doesn't have a nifty name give to him yet) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 19:10:56 -0700 Dennis, Give me some help with this paraplegia -turtle, he's been on my back for a week, run over from OH to PA and straighten him out. He once told me "flush your toilets daily, Ohio needs the drinkin' water". Sorry folks, just had to say something about some peoples kids. Let's get back to history questions. Buck Conner Colorado Territory > > Buck, your still the old mother hen you were 15 years ago when I would listen to you. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 22:14:43 -0400 Buck, My pleasure, once I take delivery on the Jaeger, just cause I doon wannna rust my sword on watered down Pa. blood.. I'll go over and give him a talkin to.. Gotta get me shots updated though... Ya think he'd make decent b'ar bait for Quebec Run??? D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -----Original Message----- >Dennis, >Give me some help with this paraplegia -turtle, he's been on my back for a week, run over from OH to PA and straighten him out. He once told me "flush your toilets daily, Ohio needs the drinkin' water". > >Sorry folks, just had to say something about some peoples kids. Let's get back to history questions. > >Buck Conner >Colorado Territory > > >> >> Buck, your still the old mother hen you were 15 years ago when I would listen to you. > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 22:30:45 EDT On 13 Apr 1999 10:46:31 -0700 writes: > With all the baloney aside, and trying to help this young man in >gaining experience, please consider what Hawk, Buck and yours truly >have suggested: books, videos and proven successful experienced >muzzleloading hunters. These steps are a sure fired way to learn and >be successful at the old art of supplying your needs. > Good luck in your search. >Turtle >PA Colonies another good piece of advise "ask questions if you dont know or understand---someone in this crown has a answer even if it's wrong and if it is you see a bunch of gray beards come on line and do some hand slapping and fun pokeing---you'll know someone dont know what they is talking about---real quick--- good luck and contact me offline anytime if you have a question and i will help to the best of my ability or point you to someone that has the answer--- YMHOSANT =+= "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 22:30:48 EDT On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:50:31 +0000 The Sweeneys writes: > >Thanks everyone for the good advise. I live in Brownsville California, >in the Sierra foothills, about two hours drive northeast of >Sacramento. As far as were I want to hunt, anywhere in the Sierras >north of Yosemite. If there is anyone on the list in my area that >does'nt mind teaching this here pilgrim, please let me know. > >Mick Sweeney >P.O. Box 121 >Brownsville, Ca. 95919 >Angus@lostsierra.net > mick wish you were in this area would stick you under my wing for a short and get you right or as best as i could---contact me offline if i can be of any further service to you or to give you any guidance --- best to you and know we have some guys in your area---lots of AMM members in that area i am sure---keep your nose to the wind and your eyes along the skyline--- "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 19:48:17 -0700 Dennis, After you scare him a little, there won't be much for bait, he's like some of them folks from another state; how's that go - feed em exlax and bury them in a shoe box !!! Buck > > Buck, > My pleasure, once I take delivery on the Jaeger, just cause I doon wannna > rust my sword on watered down Pa. blood.. I'll go over and give him a talkin > to.. Gotta get me shots updated though... Ya think he'd make decent b'ar > bait for Quebec Run??? > D > > > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > -----Original Message----- > From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 10:11 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question > > > >Dennis, > >Give me some help with this paraplegia -turtle, he's been on my back for a > week, run over from OH to PA and straighten him out. He once told me "flush > your toilets daily, Ohio needs the drinkin' water". > > > >Sorry folks, just had to say something about some peoples kids. Let's get > back to history questions. > > > >Buck Conner > >Colorado Territory > > > > > >> > >> Buck, your still the old mother hen you were 15 years ago when I would > listen to you. > > > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question Date: 13 Apr 1999 22:50:16 -0400 Buck, Figgered so... D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -----Original Message----- >Dennis, > >After you scare him a little, there won't be much for bait, he's like some of them folks from another state; how's that go - feed em exlax and bury them in a shoe box !!! > >Buck >> >> Buck, >> My pleasure, once I take delivery on the Jaeger, just cause I doon wannna >> rust my sword on watered down Pa. blood.. I'll go over and give him a talkin >> to.. Gotta get me shots updated though... Ya think he'd make decent b'ar >> bait for Quebec Run??? >> D >> >> >> >> "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" >> DOUBLE EDGE FORGE >> Period Knives & Iron Accouterments >> http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net >> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 10:11 PM >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Greenhorn Question >> >> >> >Dennis, >> >Give me some help with this paraplegia -turtle, he's been on my back for a >> week, run over from OH to PA and straighten him out. He once told me "flush >> your toilets daily, Ohio needs the drinkin' water". >> > >> >Sorry folks, just had to say something about some peoples kids. Let's get >> back to history questions. >> > >> >Buck Conner >> >Colorado Territory >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Buck, your still the old mother hen you were 15 years ago when I would >> listen to you. >> > >> > >> >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net >> > >> > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TetonTod@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Henry Route Article Date: 13 Apr 1999 22:52:11 EDT Hello Friends, Wow! Little did I realize the response I'd get on my offer to send the article. Here's the deal. The article has a nice color map in it which helps explain the route in modern terms. The map is very helpful, wouldn't be the same without it. It cost me . .90 a copy for the color copy, so with all copies and postage we're talking $2.00 for the article. Also I can have it spiral bound with a nice cover added for a total of $3.75. And believe me folks I ain't doing this to earn a few pennies. E-mail me if you are still interested and send funds to: Todd Glover 2476 W 13010 S. Riverton, UT 84065-6765 Gracias Todd Glover ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: Question Date: 14 Apr 1999 01:12:22 -0400 If a deer rifle is for shooting deer, and an elephant gun is for shooting elephants.... What's a government model for? -- "Slicker 'n Willie Lube".......and that's doin some! http://www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Rock Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #280--maps Date: 14 Apr 1999 00:38:28 -0500 Maps go to www.snap.com and then to education:reference:maps Awesome collection. Links to everywhere. You will find everything you need, and some you don't. I would like to know about the Hair Decorations too. Buckskin Rept first to last. Where is Baird?? Old Fart,Rock ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Duncan Macready Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 14 Apr 1999 22:33:55 +1200 Rodger wrote > >Dear Lady, > >It is my understanding that "Ladies of Vintage" do not "fart". I do not concider you an old lady but in any case you may on occasion >"fluff", you don't fart. I remain..... > ,Sir You are referring to "Botty Coughs" please use the correct terminology and avoid euphemisms to prevent confusion amongst your readers > YMOS Cutfinger. Friendships made. Problems shared. Campfires across the Wilderness ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sean" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question Date: 14 Apr 1999 12:12:09 -0400 *chuckles* One could only hope.... Addison Miller -----Original Message----- >If a deer rifle is for shooting deer, and an elephant gun is for shooting >elephants.... What's a government model for? > >-- >"Slicker 'n Willie Lube".......and that's doin some! >http://www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sean" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 14 Apr 1999 12:15:05 -0400 Now I have known Linda for quite a spell, and never have I know her to be uncouth as to "fluff" in public. She do get a might boistrous at times, and even been known to get down right crude with the rest of us... but never "fluff"... Addison Miller -----Original Message----- >Rodger wrote >> >>Dear Lady, >> >>It is my understanding that "Ladies of Vintage" do not "fart". I do not >concider you an old lady but in any case you may on occasion >>"fluff", you don't fart. I remain..... >> >,Sir > You are referring to "Botty Coughs" please use the correct terminology and >avoid euphemisms to prevent confusion amongst your readers >> >YMOS >Cutfinger. >Friendships made. >Problems shared. >Campfires across the Wilderness > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report/now "breaking wind" Date: 14 Apr 1999 09:36:15 -0700 > ,Sir > You are referring to "Botty Coughs" please use the correct terminology and > avoid euphemisms to prevent confusion amongst your readers Dear Sir,I must take exception to your "read" on this subject. I do in fact mean "fluff". The term comes from my wife and her cohorts. Perhaps it is because of her Danish extraction or perhaps it is a local euphemism but I have been corrected many times while standing in the queue or on the dance floor when I have asked "Did you fart?". The answer has been either an emphatic "NO" (which is probably a lie) or "Ladies don't fart, they fluff". Often as not, I am expected to take the blame as in "No, I didn't but you must have". Some times that is the case, since we practice to deceive as a natural manly thing to do. Shall we return to things "history"? I remain...... (upwind) YMOS Capt. Lahti' Fingers bandaged Friendships cultivated Problems solved Campfires fed > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: MtMan-List: Old Letters Date: 14 Apr 1999 17:07:13 GMT I posted the following message a couple of weeks ago. I have just recieved the scans of the pricelist Rusty talked about. Contains all sorts of price info, exchange rates, shipping, etc. for New Orleans on Dec 31, 1831. It's a two page list, each scan is 500+k. I'll be glad to mail this to anyone who wants (a long and tedious process). Let me know if your mailbox is big enough to take a bit more than 1meg, otherwise I'll mail each jpg on separate days. As an alternative, does anyone want to post this on a web site? They're big files. Original post follows.... I have recently swapped email with a gentleman who dabbles in old stamps, letters, documents, etc (stampless letter =3D prior to 1847). He gave me permission to pass on the following.=20 If you want to contact him directly, he's at rustysmaps@aol.com . Anyone interested in historical cartography ought to toss him an email Rusty said... We also can supply Bear Grease, pints($10 & 1/2 pints($5), rendered it myself, from a buddy's Fall 1998 hunt. Used it to cook flapjack during our 3rd season elk hunt. Plus it has the other uses, waterproofing, axel grease, slick your hair back, etc.=20 Recently got an old stampless letter from 1831, In New Orleans rum was 1.25 a gallon, Whiskey 32c, and bear's oil 1.25. I can get you a photo copy of the 2 page pricelist from Dec 31, 1831 I recently acquired. The mail route from new orleans to Boston was loaded with prices on all goods, furs, etc. Rusty Morse Colorado's Historical cartographer since 1969 Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith, Woodworker, and Collector. = My job gets in the way of my hobbies. =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Htorr@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: fluffs? Date: 14 Apr 1999 13:01:52 EDT Gee, I was told that women just "powder puff." Sparky ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roger Lahti Subject: MtMan-List: Re: [mlml] Who Carries the Kettle Date: 14 Apr 1999 11:47:53 -0700 Scott Janzen wrote: > Boy, Roger, you sure know how to make a fella feel jealous! > > Keep sending the reports from the Great Northwest! Kid, Mike "Dirty Shirt" Rider and I were on the river by 0930 Friday. The wind was up but it didn't look that bad. No other parties had shown up yet when we pushed off. About 500 yds out into the bay, the wind started up some fierce from behind us and with the bateau trying to broach, we decided to head for a protected cove. Spent a couple hrs on the beach waiting or the wind to die down and then shoved off up river again. As soon as you enter the mouth of the Palouse, the wind moderates a bit and blows you up stream well enough not to have to fight the current. We were in camp within another hour and had camp set up and tea boiling by the time any others started to arrive. Over the next few hrs and into Sat. a total of about 14 hunters showed up to join the camp. It continued to blow Friday and into Sat. with little letup but we are used to it and just shoot up wind from the target as required by the conditions. At least we had clear skies and no rain or snow though it did freeze each night. We dined on Cougar and elk. Both were quit good but cougar tastes a bit like pig that has been eating deer. Individuals engaged in various activities throughout weekend, exploring the flat we camp on, doing some small game hunting, visiting, shooting, etc. The "David Thompson Party" had challenged the "Wilson Price Hunt Party" to a "stick game" for Sat. night and after all had dinner down and the jugs had been passed, the playing area was set up. "Empty Horn" (DTP) had made up a set of 'sticks' and explained the rules and the two parties squared off across from each other near a blazing fire of willow and drift wood. With plenty of caterwauling from the side with the "bones" and much guessing from the side without the "bones" the game went on. Before long the "DTP" had all the sticks except the "kicker" stick and with each side holding a set of "bones" it looked like the game was about over. "WPHP" came through though and before long we had all the sticks and the "DTP" was in real hurt. "Empty Horn" pulled out the "kicker stick" from the pouch and we proceeded with one more round. They failed to guess which way the "bones" would lay and I am proud to say that the "Wilson Price Hunt Party" are now the champion "stick" players in the NW Brigade. We fell asleep to the songs of a hundred coyotes and a night of uncountable brilliant stars. Sunday dawned a fine sunny day and quit warm too. Everyone made leisure in departing. With no head wind, we all made good time coming out and were well on the trail by 3 PM. Our canyon camp in the spring is special to us. The hills are green and the canyon is alive with mated pairs of geese and pheasant roosters calling for satisfaction. We often see deer come down for water on the opposite bank from camp and have seen beaver and river otter in the past. Sorry you live way back east. Well I got to get ready for "Frog Hollow" coming up next week. And I got to remember to climb the cliff behind our camp on the Palouse next year and turn the gong around, since it was me that put it on edge. The boys on the list are right. You do have to undershoot the "goat" when you shoot up hill. Works for me and the Tulle" anyway. I remain...... YMOS Capt. Lahti', Clerk Wilson Price Hunt Party, AMM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re:OT- MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 14 Apr 1999 18:41:19 -0400 Glad to here from all you out there that we ladies to not expel air in an odorous or mean sounding manner. Did not know I "fluffed"?? But I do ruffle a lot of feathers when I get on my high horse. Which I fall off of every so often. Linda Holley The men on this list are all gentlemen in leather and cloth. Roger Lahti wrote: > Linda Holley wrote: > > > Since I also have the "old editions", does that make me an old lady fart?? > > And I became "chemically" dependent on the hair many years ago. > > > > Linda Holley > > Dear Lady, > > It is my understanding that "Ladies of Vintage" do not "fart". I do not concider you an old lady but in any case you may on occasion > "fluff", you don't fart. I remain..... > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Pickert Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 14 Apr 1999 17:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Don't know what all this fartten has to do with history but hears a real question. It is my understanding that Leis and clark carried Airguns on their voyage. I got into a disscussion about this and was told that daisy was the oldest airgun maker and they started in 1889? So who made the airguns for Lewis & Clark? Rick --- sean wrote: > Now I have known Linda for quite a spell, and never > have I know her to be > uncouth as to "fluff" in public. She do get a might > boistrous at times, and > even been known to get down right crude with the > rest of us... but never > "fluff"... > > Addison Miller > > -----Original Message----- > From: Duncan Macready > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 7:10 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report > > > >Rodger wrote > >> > >>Dear Lady, > >> > >>It is my understanding that "Ladies of Vintage" do > not "fart". I do not > >concider you an old lady but in any case you may on > occasion > >>"fluff", you don't fart. I remain..... > >> > >,Sir > > You are referring to "Botty Coughs" please use the > correct terminology and > >avoid euphemisms to prevent confusion amongst your > readers > >> > >YMOS > >Cutfinger. > >Friendships made. > >Problems shared. > >Campfires across the Wilderness > > > > > > > === Rick(Walks in the Night)Pickert _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 14 Apr 1999 18:42:14 -0700 Yes, Lewis & Clark had an air rifle with them that wowed the local Native Americans. Air guns were around long before this period, and I remember reading some of the best ones came from Germany, of pretty good caliber to, there was a friend of Ben Franklin's that would shoot in his garden and Jefferson mentions one in his garden book used for rodents, that would be F&I War period to Rev. War period. I would think they would be earlier than that in Europe, wasn't it at Waterloo that anyone with an air rifle or crossbow was killed on site ? These Generals didn't like silent weapons that could be pointed at them. I'm sure someone has better information than what I remember from an article years ago in the American Rifleman. You have anything Hawk ! Buck Conner Colorado Territory > > Don't know what all this fartten has to do with history but hears a > real question. > It is my understanding that Leis and clark carried Airguns on their > voyage. I got into a disscussion about this and was told that daisy was > the oldest airgun maker and they started in 1889? So who made the > airguns for Lewis & Clark? > Rick > > --- sean wrote: > > Now I have known Linda for quite a spell, and never > > have I know her to be > > uncouth as to "fluff" in public. She do get a might > > boistrous at times, and > > even been known to get down right crude with the > > rest of us... but never > > "fluff"... > > > > Addison Miller > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Duncan Macready > > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > > > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 7:10 AM > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: buckskin report > > > > > > >Rodger wrote > > >> > > >>Dear Lady, > > >> > > >>It is my understanding that "Ladies of Vintage" do > > not "fart". I do not > > >concider you an old lady but in any case you may on > > occasion > > >>"fluff", you don't fart. I remain..... > > >> > > >,Sir > > > You are referring to "Botty Coughs" please use the > > correct terminology and > > >avoid euphemisms to prevent confusion amongst your > > readers > > >> > > >YMOS > > >Cutfinger. > > >Friendships made. > > >Problems shared. > > >Campfires across the Wilderness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === > > > Rick(Walks in the Night)Pickert > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fluffs? Date: 14 Apr 1999 19:00:16 -0700 Down home son, your talkin' the wrong end. Sorry who said that ! > Gee, I was told that women just "powder puff." > > Sparky Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Smith Subject: MtMan-List: Frog Holler Date: 14 Apr 1999 20:12:16 -0700 Evenin' Capt. Lahti! What day you pullin' into Frog? I'm looking to hire a "gouvernail" for Thursday morning. I've got a heap of trade goods, some good grub, and/or cash to part with in exchange for a trip from the dock to camp! Hell, I'll even ride naked in the bow if it'll get me across the lake! :-) (Couldn't resist making you blush!) Furthermore, please do bring some sticks! I've got a set of bones, but no sticks (he left me before he got the game finished... story of my life!). I definitely think we need to get a good stick game or two going! By the way, what was your prize? Or were you just playing for the glory? Whoo Hoo, Frog's comin'! Ribbet, ribbet, ribbet! Hugs and Kisses, Barbara, aka Tassee, Ticky Eena and/or Miss Letitia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: A man once.. Date: 14 Apr 1999 23:28:56 -0400 A man once counseled his son that if he wanted to live a long life, the secret was to sprinkle a little gunpowder on his cornflakes every morning. The son did this religiously, and he lived to the age of 93. When he died, he left 14 children, 28 grandchildren, 35 great-grandchildren, and a 15 foot hole in the wall of the crematorium. -- "Slicker 'n Willie Lube".......and that's doin some! http://www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fire wood.. Date: 15 Apr 1999 09:35:24 EDT Hoping to make the Rocky Mountian National Rendezvous this year as it matches vacation. Was just wondering if a person need or should bring his own oak and hickory fire wood. I understand hard wood is hard to come by, and cooking on coals works so much better when you start with hard wood. Never been to that country, can anyone help? TrapRJoe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Frog Holler Date: 15 Apr 1999 10:36:54 EDT You girls need to borrow my gambeling rocks ---remember them who owns the rocks makes the rules---and cheeters always win and winners always cheet and if you cant cheet fair dont play--- your frog doins sounds like fun---best to you and to shining times-- "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 On Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:12:16 -0700 Barbara Smith writes: >Evenin' Capt. Lahti! > >What day you pullin' into Frog? I'm looking to hire a "gouvernail" >for >Thursday morning. I've got a heap of trade goods, some good grub, >and/or cash to part with in exchange for a trip from the dock to camp! >Hell, I'll even ride naked in the bow if it'll get me across the lake! >:-) (Couldn't resist making you blush!) > >Furthermore, please do bring some sticks! I've got a set of bones, but >no sticks (he left me before he got the game finished... story of my >life!). I definitely think we need to get a good stick game or two >going! By the way, what was your prize? Or were you just playing for >the glory? > >Whoo Hoo, Frog's comin'! Ribbet, ribbet, ribbet! > >Hugs and Kisses, >Barbara, aka Tassee, Ticky Eena and/or Miss Letitia > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fire wood.. Date: 15 Apr 1999 09:09:43 -0600 Howdy Joe, Bring your hardwood if that is what you are used to, I don't disagree with your liking the hard wood coals, but personally I get along just fine with aspen and pine and acassionally scrub oak. At times boisedavaca when nothing else is available, works just fine. (The spotted Pte variety) Respectfully, C Webb >Hoping to make the Rocky Mountian National Rendezvous this year as it matches vacation. Was just wondering if a person need or should bring his own oak and hickory fire woo >TrapRJoe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fire wood.. Date: 15 Apr 1999 17:14:44 -0400 Having been to a few Colorado Westerns, bring your own oak wood. I brought about a quarter chord and then supplemented it with the soft words of the west to keep my oak burning. Traded off some nice split pieces of the oak for trade goods to other campers. Some of the guys had not seen good eastern white hard oak in so long and wanted pieces to carve or make into other articles. I always had a good cooking fire. And a good party fire....anyone remember the Colorado Western of 86? Now that was party night after party night. Lets see, we had margarita night, scottish night, Pot luck night, Taquilla sunrise night, Lightening storm night, formal dinner night.....did I leave out anything???? Never a dull night. Linda Holley TrapRJoe@aol.com wrote: > Hoping to make the Rocky Mountian National Rendezvous this year as it matches > vacation. Was just wondering if a person need or should bring his own oak > and hickory fire wood. I understand hard wood is hard to come by, and > cooking on coals works so much better when you start with hard wood. Never > been to that country, can anyone help? > > > TrapRJoe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fire wood.. Date: 15 Apr 1999 23:00:18 GMT On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:14:44 -0400, you wrote: >And a good party fire....anyone remember the Colorado Western of 86? >Now that was party night after party night. Lets see, we had margarita = night, >scottish night, Pot luck night, Taquilla sunrise night, Lightening storm= night, >formal dinner night.....did I leave out anything???? Never a dull night. Some of us Texicans are planning on comin' up. Cuz, Frog, Dave Johnson and myself so far. Wooden Hawk will obviously be there. All that partyin' you were talking about reminded me I gotta send in my $$. We'll be bringing a mix of hickory, pecan and mesquite to flavor the oak.... Looking forward to it, my first one in the Rockies. =20 Gimme a hint, do I need to aim lower during the shootin' contests due to the thin air? > >Linda Holley > >TrapRJoe@aol.com wrote: > >> Hoping to make the Rocky Mountian National Rendezvous this year as it = matches >> vacation. Was just wondering if a person need or should bring his own= oak >> and hickory fire wood. I understand hard wood is hard to come by, and >> cooking on coals works so much better when you start with hard wood. = Never >> been to that country, can anyone help? >> >> >> TrapRJoe > > Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith, Woodworker, and Collector. = My job gets in the way of my hobbies. =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 Date: 15 Apr 1999 19:02:14 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE877B.3D9D51C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have an address, or better yet a web site address, for the = makers of tin ware in Corinth, Mississippi....Jarnigan Co, I = believe...or other makers of quality tin pots, cups, etc? I am looking = for a good tin coffee pot for a friend who needs one really badly. = Goose Bay Workshops has a good tin lined copper pot and I wanted to = present a selection, as it were. Also, has anyone found a list of names for Ashley's 100? YMOS Lanney Ratcliff ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE877B.3D9D51C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Does anyone have an address, or better yet a web site address, for = the=20 makers of tin ware in Corinth, Mississippi....Jarnigan Co, I = believe...or other=20 makers of quality tin pots, cups, etc?  I am looking for a good tin = coffee=20 pot for a friend who needs one really badly.   Goose Bay = Workshops has=20 a good tin lined copper pot and I wanted to present a selection, as it=20 were.
 
Also, has anyone found a list of names for Ashley's 100?
 
YMOS
Lanney Ratcliff
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE877B.3D9D51C0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JOHNNY RUTLEDGE" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Fire wood.. Date: 15 Apr 1999 20:42:29 -0500 JUST A TEST POST ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "TIM ROWE" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 Date: 15 Apr 1999 21:15:14 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE8785.0DF03A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable C&D Jarnigan PO Box 1860 Corinth, MS 38835-1860 www.avsia.com/jarnigan/jarnigan.html Hope this helps Tim Rowe ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE8785.0DF03A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =FF=FE<=00!=00D=00O=00C=00T=00Y=00P=00E=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =00P=00U=00B=00L=00I=00C=00 = =00"=00-=00/=00/=00W=003=00C=00/=00/=00D=00T=00D=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =004=00.=000=00 = =00T=00r=00a=00n=00s=00i=00t=00i=00o=00n=00a=00l=00/=00/=00E=00N=00"=00>=00= =0D=00=0A= =00<=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00<=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00t=00e=00x=00t=00/=00h=00t=00m=00= l=00;=00 = =00c=00h=00a=00r=00s=00e=00t=00=3D=00u=00n=00i=00c=00o=00d=00e=00"=00 = =00h=00t=00t=00p=00-=00e=00q=00u=00i=00v=00=3D=00C=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00= t=00-=00T=00y=00p=00e=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00M=00S=00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =005=00.=000=000=00.=002=000=001=004=00.=002=001=000=00"=00 = =00n=00a=00m=00e=00=3D=00G=00E=00N=00E=00R=00A=00T=00O=00R=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00<=00/=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00/=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00B=00O=00D=00Y=00 = =00b=00g=00C=00o=00l=00o=00r=00=3D=00#=00f=00f=00f=00f=00f=00f=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00C=00&=00a=00m=00p=00= ;=00D=00 = =00J=00a=00r=00n=00i=00g=00a=00n=00<=00/=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00<=00= /=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00P=00O=00 = =00B=00o=00x=00 = =001=008=006=000=00<=00/=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00= >=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00C=00o=00r=00i=00n=00= t=00h=00,=00 =00M=00S=00 = =003=008=008=003=005=00-=001=008=006=000=00<=00/=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00= >=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00<=00A=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00h=00r=00e=00f=00=3D=00"=00h=00t=00t=00p=00:=00/=00/=00w=00w=00w=00.=00= a=00v=00s=00i=00a=00.=00c=00o=00m=00/=00j=00a=00r=00n=00i=00g=00a=00n=00/= =00j=00a=00r=00n=00i=00g=00a=00n=00.=00h=00t=00m=00l=00"=00>=00w=00w=00w=00= .=00a=00v=00s=00i=00a=00.=00c=00o=00m=00/=00j=00a=00r=00n=00i=00g=00a=00n= =00/=00j=00a=00r=00n=00i=00g=00a=00n=00.=00h=00t=00m=00l=00<=00/=00A=00>=00= <=00/=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D= =00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00H=00o=00p=00e=00 = =00t=00h=00i=00s=00 = =00h=00e=00l=00p=00s=00<=00/=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00= V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00T=00i=00m=00 = =00R=00o=00w=00e=00<=00/=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00= >=00<=00/=00B=00O=00D=00Y=00>=00<=00/=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE8785.0DF03A00-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 Date: 15 Apr 1999 21:16:21 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BE8785.35D98300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Tim. It helps. Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message -----=20 From: TIM ROWE=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 9:15 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 C&D Jarnigan PO Box 1860 Corinth, MS 38835-1860 www.avsia.com/jarnigan/jarnigan.html Hope this helps Tim Rowe ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BE8785.35D98300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =FF=FE<=00!=00D=00O=00C=00T=00Y=00P=00E=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =00P=00U=00B=00L=00I=00C=00 = =00"=00-=00/=00/=00W=003=00C=00/=00/=00D=00T=00D=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =004=00.=000=00 = =00T=00r=00a=00n=00s=00i=00t=00i=00o=00n=00a=00l=00/=00/=00E=00N=00"=00>=00= =0D=00=0A= =00<=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00<=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00t=00e=00x=00t=00/=00h=00t=00m=00= l=00;=00 = =00c=00h=00a=00r=00s=00e=00t=00=3D=00u=00n=00i=00c=00o=00d=00e=00"=00 = 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=00t=00i=00t=00l=00e=00=3D=00h=00i=00s=00t=00_=00t=00e=00x=00t=00@=00l=00= i=00s=00t=00s=00.=00x=00m=00i=00s=00s=00i=00o=00n=00.=00c=00o=00m=00>=00h= =00i=00s=00t=00_=00t=00e=00x=00t=00@=00l=00i=00s=00t=00s=00.=00x=00m=00i=00= s=00s=00i=00o=00n=00.=00c=00o=00m=00<=00/=00A=00>=00 = =00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 =00 =00<=00D=00I=00V=00 = =00s=00t=00y=00l=00e=00=3D=00"=00F=00O=00N=00T=00:=00 = =001=000=00p=00t=00 = =00a=00r=00i=00a=00l=00"=00>=00<=00B=00>=00S=00e=00n=00t=00:=00<=00/=00B=00= >=00 =00T=00h=00u=00r=00s=00d=00a=00y=00,=00 =00A=00p=00r=00i=00l=00 = =001=005=00,=00 =001=009=009=009=00 =009=00:=001=005=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00 =00 =00P=00M=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 =00 =00<=00D=00I=00V=00 = =00s=00t=00y=00l=00e=00=3D=00"=00F=00O=00N=00T=00:=00 = =001=000=00p=00t=00 = =00a=00r=00i=00a=00l=00"=00>=00<=00B=00>=00S=00u=00b=00j=00e=00c=00t=00:=00= <=00/=00B=00>=00 =00R=00e=00:=00 = =00M=00t=00M=00a=00n=00-=00L=00i=00s=00t=00:=00 =00D=00a=00t=00e=00:=00 = =00T=00h=00u=00,=00 =001=005=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00 =00 =00A=00p=00r=00 =001=009=009=009=00 = =002=000=00:=000=004=00:=005=009=00 = =00-=000=005=000=000=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 =00 = =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00B=00R=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 =00 = =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00C=00&=00a=00m=00p=00= ;=00D=00 = =00J=00a=00r=00n=00i=00g=00a=00n=00<=00/=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00<=00= /=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 =00 =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00P=00O=00 = =00B=00o=00x=00 = =001=008=006=000=00<=00/=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00= >=00=0D=00=0A= =00 =00 = =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00C=00o=00r=00i=00n=00= t=00h=00,=00 =00M=00S=00 = =003=008=008=003=005=00-=001=008=006=000=00<=00/=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00= >=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 =00 =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00<=00A=00 = =00=0D=00=0A= =00 =00 = =00h=00r=00e=00f=00=3D=00"=00h=00t=00t=00p=00:=00/=00/=00w=00w=00w=00.=00= a=00v=00s=00i=00a=00.=00c=00o=00m=00/=00j=00a=00r=00n=00i=00g=00a=00n=00/= =00j=00a=00r=00n=00i=00g=00a=00n=00.=00h=00t=00m=00l=00"=00>=00w=00w=00w=00= .=00a=00v=00s=00i=00a=00.=00c=00o=00m=00/=00j=00a=00r=00n=00i=00g=00a=00n= =00/=00j=00a=00r=00n=00i=00g=00a=00n=00.=00h=00t=00m=00l=00<=00/=00A=00>=00= <=00/=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 =00 = =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D= =00=0A= =00 =00 = =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00H=00o=00p=00e=00 = =00t=00h=00i=00s=00 = =00h=00e=00l=00p=00s=00<=00/=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00= V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 =00 = =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00T=00i=00m=00 = =00R=00o=00w=00e=00<=00/=00S=00T=00R=00O=00N=00G=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00= >=00<=00/=00B=00L=00O=00C=00K=00Q=00U=00O=00T=00E=00>=00<=00/=00B=00O=00D= =00Y=00>=00<=00/=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BE8785.35D98300-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: delis@aztec.asu.edu (BRUCE S. DE LIS) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 Date: 15 Apr 1999 19:34:19 -0700 (MST) C & D Jarnigan Company Post Office Box Corinth Mississippi 38835-1860 (662) 2 87-4977 (662) 287-6033 www.jarnaginco.com cjarnag@tsixroads.com Pre-1800 Clothing > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE877B.3D9D51C0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Does anyone have an address, or better yet a web site address, for the = >makers of tin ware in Corinth, Mississippi....Jarnigan Co, I = >believe...or other makers of quality tin pots, cups, etc? I am looking = >for a good tin coffee pot for a friend who needs one really badly. = >Goose Bay Workshops has a good tin lined copper pot and I wanted to = >present a selection, as it were. > >Also, has anyone found a list of names for Ashley's 100? > >YMOS >Lanney Ratcliff > >------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE877B.3D9D51C0 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > >
Does anyone have an address, or better yet a web site address, for = >the=20 >makers of tin ware in Corinth, Mississippi....Jarnigan Co, I = >believe...or other=20 >makers of quality tin pots, cups, etc?  I am looking for a good tin = >coffee=20 >pot for a friend who needs one really badly.   Goose Bay = >Workshops has=20 >a good tin lined copper pot and I wanted to present a selection, as it=20 >were.
>
 
>
Also, has anyone found a list of names for Ashley's 100?
>
 
>
YMOS
>
Lanney Ratcliff
> >------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE877B.3D9D51C0-- > > > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brian McNutt" Subject: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous Date: 15 Apr 1999 23:20:24 -0500 Hello the list! Just wanted to drop a short note on my first rendezvous at Comanche Peak. That was the best time I've had in ages, and met nothing but good people. I want to thank Lodgepole, Shirt, and 5 Squaws for showing me the ropes. I am horrible with names, but I did meet a lister from Midland who is a trekker, and would like to get in touch with him. BTW, does anyone have a good recipe for "apple pie"???? Brian "Muzzle Loaders Have a Lot of Balls" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cherokeoil@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: hats Date: 16 Apr 1999 01:13:02 EDT I`m a greenhorn myself and was wanting to know if anyone can tell me where i can get a Jim Brigders hat about 25 in. around. I`m looking forward to trying to get into the rendezvous this year. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hats Date: 16 Apr 1999 01:25:09 EDT Cherokeoil: Here's what may prove to be some useful links in your search: Jas. Townsend & Son, Inc. Home Page ClearWater Hats Sutlers LIst YHS Barney Fife ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hats Date: 15 Apr 1999 22:45:14 -0700 Yup...http://www.clearwaterhats.com/ Best hats you can buy! Medicine Bear Cherokeoil@aol.com wrote: > I`m a greenhorn myself and was wanting to know if anyone can tell me where i > can get a Jim Brigders hat about 25 in. around. I`m looking forward to trying > to get into the rendezvous this year. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: MtMan-List: Rememberin' Day.(off topic) Date: 16 Apr 1999 09:20:38 -0400 This isn't Fur trade by any means, but, we shuld remember.. D Well, All ye Hielanders and the true of heart should pause this day and remember, but for a minute of the Gallant Lads slaughtered on the fields of Culloden this dreary day some 253 years past.. And if ye ha' a moment, stop and raise a fine drap of gud Scots whiskey to their memory... And don't forget the wee Claan and Lasses that were murdered for sport, during and after the battle and the helpless prisoners burnt and hacked to death as well, by the murderous bastards. And know that somewhere in the fiery bowels of eternal Hell, they they are paying for their butchery on tha' day. Is it any wonder that no unit sports a "Culloden" battle honor to this day.... Dennis Miles Hiv 1622 "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rememberin' Day.(off topic) Date: 16 Apr 1999 06:27:32 -0700 Good Morning Kid, Are we looking at swords and long bows too. Buck > All ye Hielanders and the true of heart should pause this day and remember, > but for a minute of the Gallant Lads slaughtered on the fields of Culloden > this dreary day some 253 years past.. And if ye ha' a moment, stop and raise > a fine drap of gud Scots whiskey to their memory... And don't forget the wee > Claan and Lasses that were murdered for sport, during and after the battle > and the helpless prisoners burnt and hacked to death as well, by the > murderous bastards. And know that somewhere in the fiery bowels of eternal > Hell, they they are paying for their butchery on tha' day. Is it any wonder > that no unit sports a "Culloden" battle honor to this day.... > > Dennis Miles > Hiv 1622 > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rememberin' Day.(off topic) Date: 16 Apr 1999 09:29:42 -0400 Buck, I ha' both... And enjoy them immensley!! The long bow is a shooter... D P.S. Did you get my message of yesterday? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List:air guns Date: 16 Apr 1999 06:55:28 -0700 Hawk, I talked to a gentleman at Beeman Prec. Air Rifles, they have some Italian and German Air Rifles that date in the 1770-1870 range. He said there was a German air rifle in pieces at Smithsonian that had a 1768 date, one of a kind, and probably not produced in any large numbers. I have kicked myself for years over an 1850's air rifle that Muley Carr had at the Colorado Antique Gun Collectors Show back in the 70's. Looked like a fine sporting rifle, precussion half stock, with a brass 4-5 inch ball in front of the trigger guard that was the air chamber. It was in NRA Good condition, and best part it was a 38 cal. Muley wanted cash, $2500 and wouldn't take a trade, before I could sell what I had at the show, he sold the air rifle. Would still like to have one, or if could figure out a system with parts and have one built. Any ideas on this. Buck _________________________________ > On 14 Apr 1999 18:42:14 -0700 writes: > >Yes, Lewis & Clark had an air rifle with them that wowed the local > >Native Americans. > > > >Air guns were around long before this period, and I remember reading > >some of the best ones came from Germany, > > air guns have been around since the late 1700 and were invented in > germany if my memory serves me well. cant find my book on them so will > have to quote info from memory--- looked thru some of my books but didnt > find what i wanted---louis and clark took a air gun on their trip and to > a pump up this airgun --- it wad pumped up with a lever and the butt > stock was the air chamber---if you go to smithsonian there is one of the > same models as louis and clark took with them if i am not wrong it is > dated 1780 or around that time period---it was by a german maker and > shot lead bb's size shot but they made them that went up to about 60 gage > or around 30 something caliber if i am not mistaken-. > > american rifleman did a article on the airguns and dated them and all > several years ago---so if you do some digging you will find out about > them the one that they discuss is the one in smithsonian. I believe the > davis museum in clarimore okla had one also that is very early but later > than the louis and clark gun---very interesting piece and made later than > the one in smithsonian--- > > best date i can put on them off my head is about 1780. plus or minus 10 > years. all the early air guns were made in germany and i know of only 2 > makers and if i remember correctly they lived quite close to each other > in their villages so it leads me to thank that they probly were either > kin to each other or had a friendly match going with each other---they > were highly accurate up to about 50 yds most were smooth bore and the > shot or ball dia was almost bore dia and was drop shot ---I usto own a > gameing rifle that shot bb's but it was powered by a precussion cap---I > would patch the lead bb's with paper towels and could shoot half way thru > a 1" pine board across the living roon---got into a lot of trouble with > it with the better half---it was stolen when i got broken into---it was > made by the german maker with the same name as the air rifles in > smithsonian---I thank they made a lot of these type of guns---called them > saloon guns for the guys in the bars to use to test their marksmanship > skills--- > > bout all I can remember --best advice is go to the nra and look thru > their back issues and you will find the smithsonian gun which is the same > as the louis and clark gun--- > > > "HAWK" > Michael pierce > 854 Glenfield Dr. > Palm Harbor Florida 34684 > E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Jackson" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rememberin' Day.(off topic) Date: 16 Apr 1999 14:04:42 PDT Aye, drinking a good Scottish drink to honor our fallen. MadJack >From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: MtMan-List: Rememberin' Day.(off topic) >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:20:38 -0400 > >This isn't Fur trade by any means, but, we shuld remember.. >D > > > > >Well, > > All ye Hielanders and the true of heart should pause this day and remember, >but for a minute of the Gallant Lads slaughtered on the fields of Culloden >this dreary day some 253 years past.. And if ye ha' a moment, stop and raise >a fine drap of gud Scots whiskey to their memory... And don't forget the wee >Claan and Lasses that were murdered for sport, during and after the battle >and the helpless prisoners burnt and hacked to death as well, by the >murderous bastards. And know that somewhere in the fiery bowels of eternal >Hell, they they are paying for their butchery on tha' day. Is it any wonder >that no unit sports a "Culloden" battle honor to this day.... > >Dennis Miles >Hiv 1622 > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: RE: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous Date: 16 Apr 1999 16:31:12 -0600 Reply to: RE: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous Apple Pie - 1 gallon apple cider, 1 quart of Vodka or Everclear and cinnomon oil to taste. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants Brian McNutt wrote: >Hello the list! >Just wanted to drop a short note on my first rendezvous at Comanche Peak. >That was the best time I've had in ages, and met nothing but good people. I >want to thank Lodgepole, Shirt, and 5 Squaws for showing me the ropes. >I am horrible with names, but I did meet a lister from Midland who is a >trekker, and would like to get in touch with him. >BTW, does anyone have a good recipe for "apple pie"???? > >Brian > >"Muzzle Loaders Have a Lot of Balls" > > > > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with ESMTP > (SMTPD32-5.01) id AAFB2AD014A; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:22:19 -0600 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10Y08d-0001Jz-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:21:59 -0600 > Received: from [198.60.22.22] (helo=mail.xmission.com) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10Y08b-0001Jl-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:21:57 -0600 > Received: from [207.46.181.18] (helo=smtp.email.msn.com) > by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) > id 10Y08a-0006m5-00 > for hist_text@xmission.com; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:21:56 -0600 > Received: from default - 208.253.170.88 by email.msn.com with Microsoft >SMTPSVC; > Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:21:27 -0700 > Message-ID: <010201be87c0$73d0ffe0$58aafdd0@default> > From: "Brian McNutt" > To: "AMM" > Subject: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous > Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:20:24 -0500 > Organization: Microsoft Corporation > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > X-RCPT-TO: > X-UIDL: 745 > Status: U > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 Date: 16 Apr 1999 16:31:16 -0600 --====54525251565454524948===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply to: RE: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 Lanney - Try Westminster Forge. They are really good people and have = excellent goods. 186-822-8473. Either Tom or Don. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants Ratcliff wrote: >Does anyone have an address, or better yet a web site address, for the = >makers of tin ware in Corinth, Mississippi....Jarnigan Co, I believe...or = other makers of = >quality tin pots, cups, etc?=A0 I am looking for a good tin coffee pot = for a = >friend who needs one really badly.=A0=A0 Goose Bay Workshops has a good = tin lined = >copper pot and I wanted to present a selection, as it were.=A0Also, has = anyone found a = >list of names for Ashley's 100?=A0YMOSLanney Ratcliff > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with = ESMTP > (SMTPD32-5.01) id AC261230102; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:02:30 -0600 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10Xx1K-0000ug-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:02:14 -0600 > Received: from [207.17.189.3] (helo=3Dhamextw01.htcomp.net) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10Xx1H-0000uW-00; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:02:12 -0600 > Received: from Ratcliff (unverified [207.17.188.62]) by hamextw01.htcomp.= net > (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.6) with SMTP id = ; > Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:02:09 -0500 > Message-ID: <001c01be87a5$271b3280$3ebc11cf@htcomp.net> > From: "Ratcliff" > To: "AMM" > Cc: "History List" > Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary=3D"----=3D_NextPart_000_0019_01BE877B.3D9D51C0" > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:02:14 -0600 > X-RCPT-TO: > X-UIDL: 737 > Status: U > --====54525251565454524948===1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
         Reply to:   RE: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500
Lanney - Try Westminster Forge. = They are really good people and have excellent = goods. 186-822-8473. Either Tom or Don.

DON AND PHYLLIS = KEAS ---LIving History Consultants

Ratcliff wrote:
>Does anyone have = an address, or better yet a web site address, = for the
>makers of tin ware in Corinth, = Mississippi....Jarnigan Co, I believe...or = other makers of
>quality tin pots, = cups, etc?  I am looking for a good = tin coffee pot for a
>friend who needs = one really badly.   Goose Bay = Workshops has a good tin lined
>copper = pot and I wanted to present a selection, = as it were. Also, has anyone found = a
>list of names for Ashley's 100? YMOSLanney = Ratcliff
>
>RFC822 header
>-----------------------------------
>
> = Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] = by mail.market1.com with ESMTP
> = (SMTPD32-5.01) id AC261230102; Thu, 15 Apr = 1999 19:02:30 -0600
> Received: from = domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim = 2.05 #1)
> id 10Xx1K-0000ug-00
> = for hist_text-= goout@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:02:14 = -0600
> Received: from [207.17.189.3] = (helo=3Dhamextw01.htcomp.net)
> by lists.xmission.com = with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1)
> id 10Xx1H-0000uW-00; = Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:02:12 -0600
> Received: = from Ratcliff (unverified [207.17.188.62]) = by hamextw01.htcomp.net
> (Rockliffe = SMTPRA 2.1.6) with SMTP id <B0002379839@hamextw01.htcomp.net<= FONT = FACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D2 COLOR=3D"#000000">>;
> Thu, 15 = Apr 1999 20:02:09 -0500
> Message-ID: = <= 001c01be87a5$271b3280$3ebc11cf@htcomp.net>
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> --====54525251565454524948===1-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Lienemann" Subject: RE: MtMan-List:air guns Date: 16 Apr 1999 20:06:16 -0600 i've seen one air rifle, also referred to in translation from the original German as a "wind gun", in the inventory of both the Christian's Spring (pennsylvania) and Salem (n carolina) shops of the Moravian communities' locksmiths and gunstockmakers. from the 1770's and 1780's. not much more detail, but the church fathers at salem were concerned about the mischief that was caused with the wind gun - evidently quiet mischief. there's two in this country, in scattered locations, early. i think they were earlier and more common that understood. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of hawknest4@juno.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 8:56 PM On 14 Apr 1999 18:42:14 -0700 writes: >Yes, Lewis & Clark had an air rifle with them that wowed the local >Native Americans. > >Air guns were around long before this period, and I remember reading >some of the best ones came from Germany, air guns have been around since the late 1700 and were invented in germany if my memory serves me well. cant find my book on them so will have to quote info from memory--- looked thru some of my books but didnt find what i wanted---louis and clark took a air gun on their trip and to a pump up this airgun --- it wad pumped up with a lever and the butt stock was the air chamber---if you go to smithsonian there is one of the same models as louis and clark took with them if i am not wrong it is dated 1780 or around that time period---it was by a german maker and shot lead bb's size shot but they made them that went up to about 60 gage or around 30 something caliber if i am not mistaken-. american rifleman did a article on the airguns and dated them and all several years ago---so if you do some digging you will find out about them the one that they discuss is the one in smithsonian. I believe the davis museum in clarimore okla had one also that is very early but later than the louis and clark gun---very interesting piece and made later than the one in smithsonian--- best date i can put on them off my head is about 1780. plus or minus 10 years. all the early air guns were made in germany and i know of only 2 makers and if i remember correctly they lived quite close to each other in their villages so it leads me to thank that they probly were either kin to each other or had a friendly match going with each other---they were highly accurate up to about 50 yds most were smooth bore and the shot or ball dia was almost bore dia and was drop shot ---I usto own a gameing rifle that shot bb's but it was powered by a precussion cap---I would patch the lead bb's with paper towels and could shoot half way thru a 1" pine board across the living roon---got into a lot of trouble with it with the better half---it was stolen when i got broken into---it was made by the german maker with the same name as the air rifles in smithsonian---I thank they made a lot of these type of guns---called them saloon guns for the guys in the bars to use to test their marksmanship skills--- bout all I can remember --best advice is go to the nra and look thru their back issues and you will find the smithsonian gun which is the same as the louis and clark gun--- "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous Date: 17 Apr 1999 02:30:57 GMT On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:20:24 -0500, you wrote: >Hello the list! >Just wanted to drop a short note on my first rendezvous at Comanche = Peak. >That was the best time I've had in ages, and met nothing but good = people. I >want to thank Lodgepole, Shirt, and 5 Squaws for showing me the ropes. >I am horrible with names, but I did meet a lister from Midland who is a >trekker, and would like to get in touch with him. >BTW, does anyone have a good recipe for "apple pie"???? > >Brian > >"Muzzle Loaders Have a Lot of Balls" > > > > Apple Pie: 1 Apple 4 Quarts Tequila Mix well. Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith, Woodworker, and Collector. = My job gets in the way of my hobbies. =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laura Rugel Glise Subject: Re: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous Date: 16 Apr 1999 21:48:07 +0000 Mr. Parker: I don't believe we have been properly introduced, but let me say your recipe for apple pie sparked my imagination. One apple and copious amounts of tequilla. My compliments, Sir. I believe you win the prize. Impressed in Atlanta Laura Jean ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "john c. funk,jr" Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:17:50 -0700 Date: 16 Apr 1999 20:46:05 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE883D.D1D91500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK, list........ Here's a question for the ironmongers and the horse riders amoung'st ya. = I need a source for either wrought iron (forged, I suspect) clips or = fasteners which might have been used on halter ropes .....and...which = clipped to halters. Obviously, the current brass and chrome designs = were not in use 196 years ago, but what was....or was anything. I have = been reminded that Millers paintings show loops (apparently) tied around = horses necks but I have to believe some sort of clip was/might have been = used.... Any thoughts from the "brumby" crowd? John Funk ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE883D.D1D91500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK, list........
 
Here's = a question for=20 the ironmongers and the horse riders amoung'st ya.  I need a source = for=20 either wrought iron (forged, I suspect) clips or fasteners which might = have been=20 used on halter ropes .....and...which clipped to halters.  = Obviously, the=20 current brass and chrome designs were not in use 196 years ago, but what = was....or was anything.  I have been reminded that Millers = paintings show=20 loops (apparently) tied around horses necks but I have to believe some = sort of=20 clip was/might have been used....
Any thoughts from the = "brumby"=20 crowd?
 
John Funk
------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE883D.D1D91500-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Smith Subject: MtMan-List: Apple Pie Recipe Date: 16 Apr 1999 20:01:48 -0700 Klahowya Tillicum, This recipe came to me from Barefoot Woman, Crazy George Passon's wife (bourgeois of the Department of the Columbia party): 1 gallon Apple Cider 1 Cup Brown Sugar 1 Cup Honey 5 Cinnamon Sticks 7 Whole Cloves Juice of 1/2 lemon Simmer all for 45 minutes. Will reduce slightly. Strain out spices. Let cool to room temperature. Add 1 fifth Everclear. The longer it sets, the smoother it gets. Don't never go bad. Now, I've done this with high-proof rum and vodka, when Everclear not available. Also real good. And I've done it with cherry, pear, and peach juice, as well. I don't recommend the cherry, tasted like cough syrup to me, but it went over real well at camp. I like to add Allspice to mine, since I'm partial to it. Good luck and have fun! :-) YMDS, -Tassee ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous Date: 16 Apr 1999 23:16:20 -0400 An APPLE??!! WOW! I KNEW I was forgetting something.. That oughta mellow it down some.... Thanks! D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -----Original Message----- >Mr. Parker: > >I don't believe we have been properly introduced, but let me say your >recipe for apple pie sparked my imagination. One apple and copious >amounts of tequilla. > >My compliments, Sir. I believe you win the prize. > >Impressed in Atlanta > >Laura Jean > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Miller Subject: MtMan-List: Halters Date: 16 Apr 1999 22:04:39 +0000 Hi List, John Funk asked about snaps for halters on horses. When growing up on the ranch and farm in Colorado, we never used halters. I was taught by elders to make a hack-a-more(halter like if you will) with an ordinary lariat when fetching mine or other horses. You toss the loop end of your lariat over horse's head then make like a half hitch with trailing end of rope around horse's muzzle(nose/mouth). Then you start leading or riding the horse. Sincerely, Joseph Miller -- Join the ABOUT COLORADO Discussion List-- mailto:aboutColorado@Colorado-Mall.com Put Subscribe in SUBJECT Line -- Joseph Miller, Webmaster http://www.Colorado-Mall.com For information on leasing mall space mailto:leasing@Colorado-Mall.com To be Happy, Joyous and Free Friends of Bill W. and Dr. Bob, Welcome! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JON P TOWNS" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 Date: 17 Apr 1999 03:55:25 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BE8886.1FFFB700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lanny try Northstar maybe they still carry tin ware coffee pots. later = Jon T=20 ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BE8886.1FFFB700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lanny try Northstar maybe they still = carry tin=20 ware coffee pots.  later Jon T 
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BE8886.1FFFB700-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Apple Pie Recipe Date: 17 Apr 1999 09:05:39 EDT My you folks cook up some fine apple pie---and its a real eye opener or group tightner as required or deemed necessary by a act of god or commission of the courts judges and pilgrem, sasquach, or everday mountain man.---makes my tast buds come to life thats for sure--- "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:17:50 -0700 Date: 17 Apr 1999 09:40:54 EDT In a message dated 4/16/99 9:47:01 PM EST, John C. Funk Jr. writes: << I need a source for either wrought iron (forged, I suspect) clips or fasteners which might have been used on halter ropes .....and...which clipped to halters. >> You can get period looking hardware a many leather or tack shops. Brass hardware was used then just as it is today as it did not rust when exposed to weather and the salt in horse sweat. A trip to the library should get you many books on the history/techniques of riding with illustrations of harnesses and bits that will show you extremely fine leather and metal work. Granted the more military/english the riding style the more refined the hardware and the more likely to use brass buckles. The more western your personna the more you would lean to hackamores and a leather halters. But I have seen at the Royal Muse (stables) in London and the Smithsonian in D.C. military saddles and harnesses from the 1700,s that look just like my 20 year old riding/jumping saddle and bridle, complete down to the hardware. I often use one of my strup leathers (solid brass buckle, no roller buckle) to bind a bedroll as it gives me a spare belt, spare strup leather and it looks just like the originals from the seventeen hundreds. Page 159 of the Collectors Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution has several saddles that show "modern" style buckles. As saddles could and did come with the individual as he or she moved west the quality could be quite good. Hit the library and you should find enough illustrations to help you select what is correct for you personna. Your Humble Servant C.T. Oakes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 Date: 17 Apr 1999 07:22:01 -0700 Lanney, We carry tin coffee pots at Clark & Sons Mercantile : http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ Later YF&B Buck Conner dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. > > Lanny try Northstar maybe they still carry tin ware coffee pots. later Jon T Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: RE: MtMan-List:air guns Date: 17 Apr 1999 07:32:57 -0700 Bob, Have you ever considered trying to build an early "wind gun" ?? If you decided to try such a thing let me know, would be interested in one in the "white" in a 32 to 36 cal. later ___________________________________________________ On Fri, 16 April 1999, "Bob Lienemann" wrote: > > i've seen one air rifle, also referred to in translation from the original > German as a "wind gun", in the inventory of both the Christian's Spring > (pennsylvania) and Salem (n carolina) shops of the Moravian communities' > locksmiths and gunstockmakers. from the 1770's and 1780's. not much more > detail, but the church fathers at salem were concerned about the mischief > that was caused with the wind gun - evidently quiet mischief. there's two > in this country, in scattered locations, early. i think they were earlier > and more common that understood. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous Date: 17 Apr 1999 14:51:35 GMT On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:48:07 +0000, you wrote: >Mr. Parker: > >I don't believe we have been properly introduced, but let me say your >recipe for apple pie sparked my imagination. One apple and copious >amounts of tequilla. > >My compliments, Sir. I believe you win the prize. =20 > >Impressed in Atlanta > >Laura Jean > Well (p'shaw'n and draggin my moc toes through the dirt), thank you kindly, Ma'am. =20 Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith, Woodworker, and Collector. = My job gets in the way of my hobbies. =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: RE: MtMan-List:air guns Date: 17 Apr 1999 08:43:23 -0700 Damn Buck, now an air rifle !!!! Nobody would be safe in bending over to tend the fire with you and an air rifle, the sling shot was bad enought. DO NOT REPLY to his request Mr. Lienemann, please trash this man's request. Thank you Turtle I move slow enough without having to look over my shoulder. _____________________________ > Bob, > Have you ever considered trying to build an early "wind gun" ?? If you decided to try such a thing let me know, would be interested in one in the "white" in a 32 to 36 cal. later > ___________________________________________________ > > On Fri, 16 April 1999, "Bob Lienemann" wrote: > > > > > i've seen one air rifle, also referred to in translation from the original > > German as a "wind gun", in the inventory of both the Christian's Spring > > (pennsylvania) and Salem (n carolina) shops of the Moravian communities' > > locksmiths and gunstockmakers. from the 1770's and 1780's. not much more > > detail, but the church fathers at salem were concerned about the mischief > > that was caused with the wind gun - evidently quiet mischief. there's two > > in this country, in scattered locations, early. i think they were earlier > > and more common that understood. > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Dearing Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Culloden Date: 17 Apr 1999 15:55:57 -0500 > > All ye Hielanders and the true of heart should pause this day and remember, > >but for a minute of the Gallant Lads slaughtered on the fields of Culloden > >this dreary day some 253 years past.. And if ye ha' a moment, stop and raise > >a fine drap of gud Scots whiskey to their memory... And don't forget the wee > >Claan and Lasses that were murdered for sport, during and after the battle > >and the helpless prisoners burnt and hacked to death as well, by the > >murderous bastards. And know that somewhere in the fiery bowels of eternal > >Hell, they they are paying for their butchery on tha' day. Is it any wonder > >that no unit sports a "Culloden" battle honor to this day.... > If I remember my history correctly, Bonnie Prince Charlie and his retinue became frightened by the 9,000 British troops arrayed against his 7,000 Highlanders, and fled the field leaving his troops leaderless, without a battle plan, and in a poor military position to oppose the British. Don't lay all of the blame at the feet of the British. The "Bonnie Prince" was as guilty as anyone. Your Servant John D. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Culloden Date: 17 Apr 1999 18:33:47 -0400 Women and Children?? "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -----Original Message----- > > >> > All ye Hielanders and the true of heart should pause this day and remember, >> >but for a minute of the Gallant Lads slaughtered on the fields of Culloden >> >this dreary day some 253 years past.. And if ye ha' a moment, stop and raise >> >a fine drap of gud Scots whiskey to their memory... And don't forget the wee >> >Claan and Lasses that were murdered for sport, during and after the battle >> >and the helpless prisoners burnt and hacked to death as well, by the >> >murderous bastards. And know that somewhere in the fiery bowels of eternal >> >Hell, they they are paying for their butchery on tha' day. Is it any wonder >> >that no unit sports a "Culloden" battle honor to this day.... >> > >If I remember my history correctly, Bonnie Prince Charlie and his retinue became >frightened by the 9,000 British troops arrayed against his 7,000 Highlanders, and >fled the field leaving his troops leaderless, without a battle plan, and in a poor >military position to oppose the British. Don't lay all of the blame at the feet of the >British. The "Bonnie Prince" was as guilty as anyone. > >Your Servant >John D. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "john c. funk,jr" Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:11:56 -0700 Date: 17 Apr 1999 18:07:44 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE88F5.65B86160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My thanks to C.T. and Joe. I'm aware of the hackamore thing and have = used it on occasions. And, unfortunately, my most credible library is a = 140 mile trip!! Hence, my question as to "types of clips (or whatever) = that might have been used" on a lead rope for a halter rig. Can anyone = actually describe what was used??? John Funk ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE88F5.65B86160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My thanks to C.T. and Joe.  I'm = aware of=20 the hackamore thing and have used it on occasions.  And, = unfortunately, my=20 most credible library is a 140 mile trip!!  Hence, my question as = to=20 "types of clips (or whatever) that might have been used" on a = lead=20 rope for a halter rig.  Can anyone actually describe what was=20 used???
John Funk
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE88F5.65B86160-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis Mountjoy" Subject: MtMan-List: RE:Spinning wheels Date: 18 Apr 1999 00:07:59 -0700 My wife just acquired a spinning wheel this weekend at an estate auction. Now she wants to learn to use it properly. Does anyone on the list have a recommendation on references on the use of a spinning wheel? She asked _me_ , and I sure can't help. Thanks Dennis Mountjoy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "McKee" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Spinning wheels Date: 18 Apr 1999 07:18:39 -0500 Saw your msg on my husband's email and had to answer. There is a very good magazine on spinning called "Spin-off" through Interweave press and they have a wide assortment of publications and books dealing with spinning as well as the magazine available. There phone is 970 669-7672 they have a web site -- www.interweave.com and spinoff@interweave.com . There is are several excellent videos on spinning that can be purchased from Victorian Video Productions out of Petaluma, CA - sorry I can't find there catalog at the moment. Interweave also can furnish a listing of spinning and weaving guilds across the country whose members could probably help your wife do any restoration her new wheel may need and help her get started spinning. One very good book The Care & Feeding of Spinning Wheels; a Buyer's Guide & Owners Manual is quite good. Many auction/antique wheels are missing parts and without experience it takes awhile to find this out. It is a great hobby and leads down a very long path (sometimes to multiple ventures) and very relaxing and enjoyable. Hope this has been of help to your wife. If she has questions she can contact me at stitchinscot@jetnetinc.net Nancy -----Original Message----- >My wife just acquired a spinning wheel this weekend at an estate auction. >Now she wants to learn to use it properly. Does anyone on the list have a >recommendation on references on the use of a spinning wheel? She asked _me_ >, and I sure can't help. Thanks > >Dennis Mountjoy > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cherokeoil@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE:Spinning wheels Date: 18 Apr 1999 10:28:20 EDT There is a book called The Whole Craft of Spinning for 3.95 in the Smoke and Fire Co. catalog. There address is po box 166, Grand Rapids, Ohio 43522 and there number is (419) 832-0303. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: "PICHOU" & Deringer contract Date: 18 Apr 1999 09:23:10 -0700 George, The site to sign up on for the AMM hist_list is at: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html my e-mail is: buck.conner@uswestmail.net personal buck.conner@worldnet.att.net business Answers to your questions: #1 -The information on your findings is interesting on the word "PICHOU", I'm sure others would be interested also and with your permission I will submit it again. #2 -I will try and find what I can in the imformation used for web site on tradeguns and smoothbores at: http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html and with your permission I will submit your question and with any luck we'll see what these folks come up with. Thanks for trying to reach me again. Buck Conner Colorado Territory ________________________________________ > Tried to send this earlier it came back "nrt" won't work for "net" Oh > Well!! Know your buisy but will like to know if it made it this time!! > > > : > > Sorry, I couldn't find any host named > > uswestmail.nrt. (#5.1.2) > > > > : > > Sorry, I couldn't find any host named > > list.xmission.com. (#5.1.2) ________________________________________ > > --- Original message follows. #1 -Some time ago I sent a question "What is a Pinchon"? to the list. I thought I might share what I found.The Editor of Outdoor Oklahoma, In a "Letter to the Editor" colum responded "it might a misspelled word for mink( Vison) in the May--June- 1998 issue." However , about the same time. My aunt from La., a true cajun, found in a Dictionary Of The Cajun Language by Rev.Msgr.Jules O. Daigle,M.A., S.T.L.: list the word "PICHOU" n.m. Bobcat,Lynz. I want to think missed spelled bobcat rather than mink. I think they were pressing the hides into bundles of like size and fox and bobcat would be about the same. The article refered to (97 "Pinchon" and fox). #2 -Ok. Next question! If we may "clear the air"(old farts). Can any one help me find the "contract" by the goverenment and Henry Deringer To supply 1000 rifles(500 Flinters & 500 cappers) to be given to the Creek Indians during their removal west? My friend, Douglas Jones AMM,thinks it should have been about 1830. I found in A Treaty Of Washington Mar.24, 1832 Article XIII. (There shall also be given to each emigrating warrior a rifle,molds,wiper and ammunition and to each family one blanket.)Generous wern't they! Thanks G.R.N. George R. Noe < gnoe39@yahoo.com > 1005 W.Donkey Ln. Marlow Ok. 73055 Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: RE: MtMan-List:air guns (off topic) Date: 18 Apr 1999 09:59:31 -0700 Turtle, Remember the time at Ft. deChartre in ILL and the Scotsman in the kilt splitting firewood, everytime he hit that block of wood his kilt ended up on his back and proved "nothing was worn under them". Well Buck and his damn homemade sling shot couldn't pass on this, spectators (100 or so) watching as the Scotsman would bend over in his swing and come to attention when hit with a stinging pebble from the sleeping gentleman near by. The crowd got a charge out of this Scotsman bending over, getting hit and standing straight looking around for the guilty party, great fun for everyone but the Scot. An air rifle would be terrible in our friend's hands, Mr. L. as requested don't call our friend. Powder Hawk Iowa > On Sat, 17 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > > Damn Buck, now an air rifle !!!! > Nobody would be safe in bending over to tend the fire with you and an air rifle, the sling shot was bad enought. DO NOT REPLY to his request Mr. Lienemann, please trash this man's request. Thank you > > Turtle > I move slow enough without having to look over my shoulder. > _____________________________ > > Bob, > > Have you ever considered trying to build an early "wind gun" ?? If you decided to try such a thing let me know, would be interested in one in the "white" in a 32 to 36 cal. later > > ___________________________________________________ > > > > On Fri, 16 April 1999, "Bob Lienemann" wrote: > > > > > > > > i've seen one air rifle, also referred to in translation from the original > > > German as a "wind gun", in the inventory of both the Christian's Spring > > > (pennsylvania) and Salem (n carolina) shops of the Moravian communities' > > > locksmiths and gunstockmakers. from the 1770's and 1780's. not much more > > > detail, but the church fathers at salem were concerned about the mischief > > > that was caused with the wind gun - evidently quiet mischief. there's two > > > in this country, in scattered locations, early. i think they were earlier > > > and more common that understood. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "PICHOU" & Deringer contract Date: 18 Apr 1999 14:34:33 EDT On 18 Apr 1999 09:23:10 -0700 writes: >George, _snip info---_______________________________________ >> > --- Original message follows. snip question #1----- >#2 -Ok. Next question! If we may "clear the air"(old farts). Can any >one help me find the "contract" by the goverenment and Henry Deringer >To supply 1000 rifles(500 Flinters & 500 cappers) to be given to the >Creek Indians during their removal west? My friend, Douglas Jones >AMM,thinks it should have been about 1830. I found in A Treaty Of >Washington Mar.24, 1832 Article XIII. (There shall also be given to >each emigrating warrior a rifle,molds,wiper and ammunition and to each >family one blanket.)Generous wern't they! > >Thanks G.R.N. > >George R. Noe >< gnoe39@yahoo.com > >1005 W.Donkey Ln. >Marlow Ok. 73055 suggest you look in chapter 2 of "the plains rifle" by charles e. hanson ISBN # 0-88227-015x 1978 this chapter goes into great detail about contracts and talks about rifles made for indians being moved west. contract was for more than the qty you speak of so it was probably for more than one settlement or treaty. also a derringer target rifle in the kentuckey rifle by dillen on page 58 plate 41. also a philip derrenger rifle is shown on page 208 plate # 172 of the pennsylvania Kentuckey Rifle by Henry j. Kauffman. that is a quick search for info that i had avail---the hanson book is probably what you want to look at but not many pictures of what you want---there is also several contract military muskets in Flanermans guide to antique firearms---with a slight bit of info ---probably not in the date time that you are looking---and not of the trade gun or for the indian movent west. "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Pickert Subject: MtMan-List: thanks/poem Date: 18 Apr 1999 12:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Hey the list: thanks for all the great info on air guns, I have had problems with this puter so was unable to respond earlier. Here is a poem I wrote a while back hope you all get a kick out of it. A MOUNTAIN MAN WALKS IN THE NIGHT IS MY MOUNTAIN MAN NAME IN THE 70'S HUNTIN COON WAS MY GAME A BLACKFOOT LADY I TOOK FOR MY WIFE AT MY SIDE HANGS A GREEN RIVER KNIFE MY WIFE SHE KEEPS ME FED AND WARM AT NIGHT AN OL GREEN RIVER KEEPS MY GAME SKINNED CLEAN AND HELPS ME IN A PLIGHT AS A MOUNTAIN MAN I'M PROUD TO SAY THAT FOLLOWING BEAVOR PLEWS IS STILL THE WAY AN NO MAN CAN STEAL MY THUNDER LEAST WISE NOT TILL I GO UNDER === Rick(Walks in the Night)Pickert _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "B. Rice Aston" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #283 Date: 18 Apr 1999 16:48:09 -0500 PLease delete my name. Thanks. Rice Aston bra@hal-pc.org At 08:33 AM 4/17/99 -0600, you wrote: > >hist_text-digest Saturday, April 17 1999 Volume 01 : Number 283 > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:20:38 -0400 >From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) >Subject: MtMan-List: Rememberin' Day.(off topic) > >This isn't Fur trade by any means, but, we shuld remember.. >D > > > > >Well, > > All ye Hielanders and the true of heart should pause this day and remember, >but for a minute of the Gallant Lads slaughtered on the fields of Culloden >this dreary day some 253 years past.. And if ye ha' a moment, stop and raise >a fine drap of gud Scots whiskey to their memory... And don't forget the wee >Claan and Lasses that were murdered for sport, during and after the battle >and the helpless prisoners burnt and hacked to death as well, by the >murderous bastards. And know that somewhere in the fiery bowels of eternal >Hell, they they are paying for their butchery on tha' day. Is it any wonder >that no unit sports a "Culloden" battle honor to this day.... > >Dennis Miles >Hiv 1622 > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > >------------------------------ > >Date: 16 Apr 1999 06:27:32 -0700 >From: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rememberin' Day.(off topic) > >Good Morning Kid, >Are we looking at swords and long bows too. >Buck > > >> All ye Hielanders and the true of heart should pause this day and remember, >> but for a minute of the Gallant Lads slaughtered on the fields of Culloden >> this dreary day some 253 years past.. And if ye ha' a moment, stop and raise >> a fine drap of gud Scots whiskey to their memory... And don't forget the wee >> Claan and Lasses that were murdered for sport, during and after the battle >> and the helpless prisoners burnt and hacked to death as well, by the >> murderous bastards. And know that somewhere in the fiery bowels of eternal >> Hell, they they are paying for their butchery on tha' day. Is it any wonder >> that no unit sports a "Culloden" battle honor to this day.... >> >> Dennis Miles >> Hiv 1622 >> >> "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" >> DOUBLE EDGE FORGE >> Period Knives & Iron Accouterments >> http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:29:42 -0400 >From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rememberin' Day.(off topic) > >Buck, > > I ha' both... And enjoy them immensley!! The long bow is a shooter... > >D > >P.S. Did you get my message of yesterday? > >------------------------------ > >Date: 16 Apr 1999 06:55:28 -0700 >From: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List:air guns > >Hawk, > I talked to a gentleman at Beeman Prec. Air Rifles, they have some Italian and German Air Rifles that date in the 1770-1870 range. He said there was a German air rifle in pieces at Smithsonian that had a 1768 date, one of a kind, and probably not produced in any large numbers. > I have kicked myself for years over an 1850's air rifle that Muley Carr had at the Colorado Antique Gun Collectors Show back in the 70's. Looked like a fine sporting rifle, precussion half stock, with a brass 4-5 inch ball in front of the trigger guard that was the air chamber. It was in NRA Good condition, and best part it was a 38 cal. Muley wanted cash, $2500 and wouldn't take a trade, before I could sell what I had at the show, he sold the air rifle. > Would still like to have one, or if could figure out a system with parts and have one built. Any ideas on this. > >Buck >_________________________________ >> On 14 Apr 1999 18:42:14 -0700 writes: >> >Yes, Lewis & Clark had an air rifle with them that wowed the local >> >Native Americans. >> > >> >Air guns were around long before this period, and I remember reading >> >some of the best ones came from Germany, >> >> air guns have been around since the late 1700 and were invented in >> germany if my memory serves me well. cant find my book on them so will >> have to quote info from memory--- looked thru some of my books but didnt >> find what i wanted---louis and clark took a air gun on their trip and to >> a pump up this airgun --- it wad pumped up with a lever and the butt >> stock was the air chamber---if you go to smithsonian there is one of the >> same models as louis and clark took with them if i am not wrong it is >> dated 1780 or around that time period---it was by a german maker and >> shot lead bb's size shot but they made them that went up to about 60 gage >> or around 30 something caliber if i am not mistaken-. >> >> american rifleman did a article on the airguns and dated them and all >> several years ago---so if you do some digging you will find out about >> them the one that they discuss is the one in smithsonian. I believe the >> davis museum in clarimore okla had one also that is very early but later >> than the louis and clark gun---very interesting piece and made later than >> the one in smithsonian--- >> >> best date i can put on them off my head is about 1780. plus or minus 10 >> years. all the early air guns were made in germany and i know of only 2 >> makers and if i remember correctly they lived quite close to each other >> in their villages so it leads me to thank that they probly were either >> kin to each other or had a friendly match going with each other---they >> were highly accurate up to about 50 yds most were smooth bore and the >> shot or ball dia was almost bore dia and was drop shot ---I usto own a >> gameing rifle that shot bb's but it was powered by a precussion cap---I >> would patch the lead bb's with paper towels and could shoot half way thru >> a 1" pine board across the living roon---got into a lot of trouble with >> it with the better half---it was stolen when i got broken into---it was >> made by the german maker with the same name as the air rifles in >> smithsonian---I thank they made a lot of these type of guns---called them >> saloon guns for the guys in the bars to use to test their marksmanship >> skills--- >> >> bout all I can remember --best advice is go to the nra and look thru >> their back issues and you will find the smithsonian gun which is the same >> as the louis and clark gun--- >> >> >> "HAWK" >> Michael pierce >> 854 Glenfield Dr. >> Palm Harbor Florida 34684 >> E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:04:42 PDT >From: "Bill Jackson" >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rememberin' Day.(off topic) > >Aye, drinking a good Scottish drink to honor our fallen. >MadJack > > >>From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) >>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>To: >>Subject: MtMan-List: Rememberin' Day.(off topic) >>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:20:38 -0400 >> >>This isn't Fur trade by any means, but, we shuld remember.. >>D >> >> >> >> >>Well, >> >> All ye Hielanders and the true of heart should pause this day and >remember, >>but for a minute of the Gallant Lads slaughtered on the fields of >Culloden >>this dreary day some 253 years past.. And if ye ha' a moment, stop >and raise >>a fine drap of gud Scots whiskey to their memory... And don't forget >the wee >>Claan and Lasses that were murdered for sport, during and after the >battle >>and the helpless prisoners burnt and hacked to death as well, by the >>murderous bastards. And know that somewhere in the fiery bowels of >eternal >>Hell, they they are paying for their butchery on tha' day. Is it any >wonder >>that no unit sports a "Culloden" battle honor to this day.... >> >>Dennis Miles >>Hiv 1622 >> >> "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" >> DOUBLE EDGE FORGE >> Period Knives & Iron Accouterments >> http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 >> >> > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: 16 Apr 99 16:31:12 -0600 >From: Phyllis and Don Keas >Subject: RE: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous > > Reply to: RE: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous >Apple Pie - 1 gallon apple cider, 1 quart of Vodka or Everclear and >cinnomon oil to taste. > >DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants > >Brian McNutt wrote: >>Hello the list! >>Just wanted to drop a short note on my first rendezvous at Comanche >Peak. >>That was the best time I've had in ages, and met nothing but good >people. I >>want to thank Lodgepole, Shirt, and 5 Squaws for showing me the ropes. >>I am horrible with names, but I did meet a lister from Midland who is a >>trekker, and would like to get in touch with him. >>BTW, does anyone have a good recipe for "apple pie"???? >> >>Brian >> >>"Muzzle Loaders Have a Lot of Balls" >> >> >> >> >> >> >>RFC822 header >>----------------------------------- >> >> Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com >with ESMTP >> (SMTPD32-5.01) id AAFB2AD014A; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:22:19 -0600 >> Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) >> id 10Y08d-0001Jz-00 >> for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:21:59 >- -0600 >> Received: from [198.60.22.22] (helo=mail.xmission.com) >> by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) >> id 10Y08b-0001Jl-00 >> for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:21:57 -0600 >> Received: from [207.46.181.18] (helo=smtp.email.msn.com) >> by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) >> id 10Y08a-0006m5-00 >> for hist_text@xmission.com; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:21:56 -0600 >> Received: from default - 208.253.170.88 by email.msn.com with Microsoft > >>SMTPSVC; >> Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:21:27 -0700 >> Message-ID: <010201be87c0$73d0ffe0$58aafdd0@default> >> From: "Brian McNutt" >> To: "AMM" >> Subject: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous >> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:20:24 -0500 >> Organization: Microsoft Corporation >> X-Priority: 3 >> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 >> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 >> Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Precedence: bulk >> Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> X-RCPT-TO: >> X-UIDL: 745 >> Status: U >> > >------------------------------ > >Date: 16 Apr 99 16:31:16 -0600 >From: Phyllis and Don Keas >Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 > >- --====54525251565454524948===1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Reply to: RE: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 >Lanney - Try Westminster Forge. They are really good people and have = >excellent goods. 186-822-8473. Either Tom or Don. > >DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants > >Ratcliff wrote: >>Does anyone have an address, or better yet a web site address, for the = >>makers of tin ware in Corinth, Mississippi....Jarnigan Co, I believe...or = >other makers of = >>quality tin pots, cups, etc?=A0 I am looking for a good tin coffee pot = >for a = >>friend who needs one really badly.=A0=A0 Goose Bay Workshops has a good = >tin lined = >>copper pot and I wanted to present a selection, as it were.=A0Also, has = >anyone found a = >>list of names for Ashley's 100?=A0YMOSLanney Ratcliff >> >>RFC822 header >>----------------------------------- >> >> Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with = >ESMTP >> (SMTPD32-5.01) id AC261230102; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:02:30 -0600 >> Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) >> id 10Xx1K-0000ug-00 >> for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:02:14 -0600 >> Received: from [207.17.189.3] (helo=3Dhamextw01.htcomp.net) >> by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) >> id 10Xx1H-0000uW-00; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:02:12 -0600 >> Received: from Ratcliff (unverified [207.17.188.62]) by hamextw01.htcomp.= >net >> (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.6) with SMTP id = >; >> Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:02:09 -0500 >> Message-ID: <001c01be87a5$271b3280$3ebc11cf@htcomp.net> >> From: "Ratcliff" >> To: "AMM" >> Cc: "History List" >> Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >> boundary=3D"----=3D_NextPart_000_0019_01BE877B.3D9D51C0" >> X-Priority: 3 >> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 >> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 >> Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Precedence: bulk >> Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:02:14 -0600 >> X-RCPT-TO: >> X-UIDL: 737 >> Status: U >> >- --====54525251565454524948===1 >Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > >
>         Reply to:   RE: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500
>
>
>COLOR=3D"#000000">Lanney - Try Westminster Forge. = > They are really good people and have excellent = >goods. 186-822-8473. Either Tom or Don.FACE=3D"Monaco" SIZE=3D1 COLOR=3D"#000000">
>
>DON AND PHYLLIS = >KEAS ---LIving History ConsultantsFACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D3 COLOR=3D"#000000">
>
>Ratcliff wrote:FACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D2 COLOR=3D"#000000">
>>Does anyone have = >an address, or better yet a web site address, = >for the
>>makers of tin ware in Corinth, = >Mississippi....Jarnigan Co, I believe...or = >other makers of
>>quality tin pots, = >cups, etc?  I am looking for a good = >tin coffee pot for a
>>friend who needs = >one really badly.   Goose Bay = >Workshops has a good tin lined
>>copper = >pot and I wanted to present a selection, = >as it were. Also, has anyone found = >a
>>list of names for Ashley's 100? YMOSLanney = >Ratcliff
>>
>>RFC822 header
>>-----------------------------------
>>
>> = >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] = >by mail.market1.com with ESMTP
>> = >(SMTPD32-5.01) id AC261230102; Thu, 15 Apr = >1999 19:02:30 -0600
>> Received: from = >domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim = >2.05 #1)
>> id 10Xx1K-0000ug-00
>> = > for hist_text-= >goout@lists.xmission.comFACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D2 COLOR=3D"#000000">; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:02:14 = >- -0600
>> Received: from [207.17.189.3] = >(helo=3Dhamextw01.htcomp.net)
>> by lists.xmission.com = >with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1)
>> id 10Xx1H-0000uW-00; = >Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:02:12 -0600
>> Received: = >from Ratcliff (unverified [207.17.188.62]) = >by hamextw01.htcomp.net
>> (Rockliffe = >SMTPRA 2.1.6) with SMTP id <SIZE=3D2 COLOR=3D"#0000FF">B0002379839@hamextw01.htcomp.net<= >FONT = >FACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D2 COLOR=3D"#000000">>;
>> Thu, 15 = >Apr 1999 20:02:09 -0500
>> Message-ID: = ><= >001c01be87a5$271b3280$3ebc11cf@htcomp.netFACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D2 COLOR=3D"#000000">>
>> From: "Ratcliff" = ><rat@htcomp.= >netFACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D2 COLOR=3D"#000000">>
>> To: "AMM" = ><ammlist@= >lists.xmission.comFACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D2 COLOR=3D"#000000">>
>> Cc: "History = >List" <= >hist_text@lists.xmission.comFACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D2 COLOR=3D"#000000">>
>> Subject: MtMan-List: = >Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500
>> = >MIME-Version: 1.0
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>> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook = >Express 5.00.2014.211
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>> Precedence: bulk
>> = >Reply-To: hist_= >text@lists.xmission.comFACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D2 COLOR=3D"#000000">
>> Date: Thu, 15 = >Apr 1999 19:02:14 -0600
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>> X-UIDL: 737
>> = >Status: U
>> >- --====54525251565454524948===1-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:06:16 -0600 >From: "Bob Lienemann" >Subject: RE: MtMan-List:air guns > >i've seen one air rifle, also referred to in translation from the original >German as a "wind gun", in the inventory of both the Christian's Spring >(pennsylvania) and Salem (n carolina) shops of the Moravian communities' >locksmiths and gunstockmakers. from the 1770's and 1780's. not much more >detail, but the church fathers at salem were concerned about the mischief >that was caused with the wind gun - evidently quiet mischief. there's two >in this country, in scattered locations, early. i think they were earlier >and more common that understood. > >- -----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of >hawknest4@juno.com >Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 8:56 PM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List:air guns > > > > >On 14 Apr 1999 18:42:14 -0700 writes: >>Yes, Lewis & Clark had an air rifle with them that wowed the local >>Native Americans. >> >>Air guns were around long before this period, and I remember reading >>some of the best ones came from Germany, > >air guns have been around since the late 1700 and were invented in >germany if my memory serves me well. cant find my book on them so will >have to quote info from memory--- looked thru some of my books but didnt >find what i wanted---louis and clark took a air gun on their trip and to >a pump up this airgun --- it wad pumped up with a lever and the butt >stock was the air chamber---if you go to smithsonian there is one of the >same models as louis and clark took with them if i am not wrong it is >dated 1780 or around that time period---it was by a german maker and >shot lead bb's size shot but they made them that went up to about 60 gage >or around 30 something caliber if i am not mistaken-. > >american rifleman did a article on the airguns and dated them and all >several years ago---so if you do some digging you will find out about >them the one that they discuss is the one in smithsonian. I believe the >davis museum in clarimore okla had one also that is very early but later >than the louis and clark gun---very interesting piece and made later than >the one in smithsonian--- > >best date i can put on them off my head is about 1780. plus or minus 10 >years. all the early air guns were made in germany and i know of only 2 >makers and if i remember correctly they lived quite close to each other >in their villages so it leads me to thank that they probly were either >kin to each other or had a friendly match going with each other---they >were highly accurate up to about 50 yds most were smooth bore and the >shot or ball dia was almost bore dia and was drop shot ---I usto own a >gameing rifle that shot bb's but it was powered by a precussion cap---I >would patch the lead bb's with paper towels and could shoot half way thru >a 1" pine board across the living roon---got into a lot of trouble with >it with the better half---it was stolen when i got broken into---it was >made by the german maker with the same name as the air rifles in >smithsonian---I thank they made a lot of these type of guns---called them >saloon guns for the guys in the bars to use to test their marksmanship >skills--- > >bout all I can remember --best advice is go to the nra and look thru >their back issues and you will find the smithsonian gun which is the same >as the louis and clark gun--- > > >"HAWK" >Michael pierce >854 Glenfield Dr. >Palm Harbor Florida 34684 >E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:30:57 GMT >From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous > >On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:20:24 -0500, you wrote: > >>Hello the list! >>Just wanted to drop a short note on my first rendezvous at Comanche = >Peak. >>That was the best time I've had in ages, and met nothing but good = >people. I >>want to thank Lodgepole, Shirt, and 5 Squaws for showing me the ropes. >>I am horrible with names, but I did meet a lister from Midland who is a >>trekker, and would like to get in touch with him. >>BTW, does anyone have a good recipe for "apple pie"???? >> >>Brian >> >>"Muzzle Loaders Have a Lot of Balls" >> >> >> >> >Apple Pie: > >1 Apple >4 Quarts Tequila >Mix well. >Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith, Woodworker, and Collector. = >My job gets in the way of my hobbies. >=20 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:48:07 +0000 >From: Laura Rugel Glise >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous > >Mr. Parker: > >I don't believe we have been properly introduced, but let me say your >recipe for apple pie sparked my imagination. One apple and copious >amounts of tequilla. > >My compliments, Sir. I believe you win the prize. > >Impressed in Atlanta > >Laura Jean > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:46:05 -0600 >From: "john c. funk,jr" >Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:17:50 -0700 > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >- ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE883D.D1D91500 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >OK, list........ > >Here's a question for the ironmongers and the horse riders amoung'st ya. = > I need a source for either wrought iron (forged, I suspect) clips or = >fasteners which might have been used on halter ropes .....and...which = >clipped to halters. Obviously, the current brass and chrome designs = >were not in use 196 years ago, but what was....or was anything. I have = >been reminded that Millers paintings show loops (apparently) tied around = >horses necks but I have to believe some sort of clip was/might have been = >used.... >Any thoughts from the "brumby" crowd? > >John Funk > >- ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE883D.D1D91500 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > >
OK, list........
>
 
>
Here's = >a question for=20 >the ironmongers and the horse riders amoung'st ya.  I need a source = >for=20 >either wrought iron (forged, I suspect) clips or fasteners which might = >have been=20 >used on halter ropes .....and...which clipped to halters.  = >Obviously, the=20 >current brass and chrome designs were not in use 196 years ago, but what = > >was....or was anything.  I have been reminded that Millers = >paintings show=20 >loops (apparently) tied around horses necks but I have to believe some = >sort of=20 >clip was/might have been used....
>
Any thoughts from the = >"brumby"=20 >crowd?
>
 
>
John Funk
> >- ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE883D.D1D91500-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:01:48 -0700 >From: Barbara Smith >Subject: MtMan-List: Apple Pie Recipe > >Klahowya Tillicum, > >This recipe came to me from Barefoot Woman, Crazy George Passon's wife >(bourgeois of the Department of the Columbia party): > >1 gallon Apple Cider >1 Cup Brown Sugar >1 Cup Honey >5 Cinnamon Sticks >7 Whole Cloves >Juice of 1/2 lemon > >Simmer all for 45 minutes. Will reduce slightly. > >Strain out spices. > >Let cool to room temperature. > >Add 1 fifth Everclear. > >The longer it sets, the smoother it gets. Don't never go bad. > >Now, I've done this with high-proof rum and vodka, when Everclear not >available. Also real good. And I've done it with cherry, pear, and >peach juice, as well. I don't recommend the cherry, tasted like cough >syrup to me, but it went over real well at camp. I like to add Allspice >to mine, since I'm partial to it. > >Good luck and have fun! :-) > >YMDS, >- -Tassee > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:16:20 -0400 >From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous > >An APPLE??!! WOW! I KNEW I was forgetting something.. That oughta mellow it >down some.... Thanks! >D > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 >- -----Original Message----- >From: Laura Rugel Glise >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 10:40 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: First Rendezvous > > >>Mr. Parker: >> >>I don't believe we have been properly introduced, but let me say your >>recipe for apple pie sparked my imagination. One apple and copious >>amounts of tequilla. >> >>My compliments, Sir. I believe you win the prize. >> >>Impressed in Atlanta >> >>Laura Jean >> >> > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:04:39 +0000 >From: Joseph Miller >Subject: MtMan-List: Halters > >Hi List, >John Funk asked about snaps for halters on horses. >When growing up on the ranch and farm in Colorado, we never used >halters. >I was taught by elders to make a hack-a-more(halter like if you will) >with an ordinary lariat when fetching mine or other horses. >You toss the loop end of your lariat over horse's head then make like a >half hitch with trailing end of rope around horse's muzzle(nose/mouth). >Then you start leading or riding the horse. > >Sincerely, >Joseph Miller >- -- >Join the ABOUT COLORADO Discussion List-- >mailto:aboutColorado@Colorado-Mall.com >Put Subscribe in SUBJECT Line >- -- >Joseph Miller, Webmaster >http://www.Colorado-Mall.com >For information on leasing mall space >mailto:leasing@Colorado-Mall.com >To be Happy, Joyous and Free >Friends of Bill W. and Dr. Bob, Welcome! > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 03:55:25 -0700 >From: "JON P TOWNS" >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >- ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BE8886.1FFFB700 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Lanny try Northstar maybe they still carry tin ware coffee pots. later = >Jon T=20 > >- ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BE8886.1FFFB700 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > >
Lanny try Northstar maybe they still = >carry tin=20 >ware coffee pots.  later Jon Tface=3DGeneva=20 >size=3D2> 
> >- ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BE8886.1FFFB700-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:05:39 EDT >From: hawknest4@juno.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Apple Pie Recipe > >My you folks cook up some fine apple pie---and its a real eye opener or >group tightner as required or deemed necessary by a act of god or >commission of the courts judges and pilgrem, sasquach, or everday >mountain man.---makes my tast buds come to life thats for sure--- > >"HAWK" >Michael pierce >854 Glenfield Dr. >Palm Harbor Florida 34684 >E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:40:54 EDT >From: CTOAKES@aol.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:17:50 -0700 > >In a message dated 4/16/99 9:47:01 PM EST, John C. Funk Jr. writes: > ><< I need a source for either wrought iron (forged, I suspect) clips or >fasteners which might have been used on halter ropes .....and...which clipped >to halters. >> > >You can get period looking hardware a many leather or tack shops. Brass >hardware was used then just as it is today as it did not rust when exposed to >weather and the salt in horse sweat. > >A trip to the library should get you many books on the history/techniques of >riding with illustrations of harnesses and bits that will show you extremely >fine leather and metal work. Granted the more military/english the riding >style the more refined the hardware and the more likely to use brass buckles. > The more western your personna the more you would lean to hackamores and a >leather halters. > >But I have seen at the Royal Muse (stables) in London and the Smithsonian in >D.C. military saddles and harnesses from the 1700,s that look just like my 20 >year old riding/jumping saddle and bridle, complete down to the hardware. > >I often use one of my strup leathers (solid brass buckle, no roller buckle) >to bind a bedroll as it gives me a spare belt, spare strup leather and it >looks just like the originals from the seventeen hundreds. > >Page 159 of the Collectors Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American >Revolution has several saddles that show "modern" style buckles. > >As saddles could and did come with the individual as he or she moved west the >quality could be quite good. > >Hit the library and you should find enough illustrations to help you select >what is correct for you personna. > >Your Humble Servant > >C.T. Oakes > >------------------------------ > >Date: 17 Apr 1999 07:22:01 -0700 >From: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:04:59 -0500 > >Lanney, >We carry tin coffee pots at Clark & Sons Mercantile : http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ > >Later >YF&B > >Buck Conner >dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. > >> >> Lanny try Northstar maybe they still carry tin ware coffee pots. later Jon T > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > >------------------------------ > >Date: 17 Apr 1999 07:32:57 -0700 >From: >Subject: RE: MtMan-List:air guns > >Bob, >Have you ever considered trying to build an early "wind gun" ?? If you decided to try such a thing let me know, would be interested in one in the "white" in a 32 to 36 cal. later >___________________________________________________ > >On Fri, 16 April 1999, "Bob Lienemann" wrote: > >> >> i've seen one air rifle, also referred to in translation from the original >> German as a "wind gun", in the inventory of both the Christian's Spring >> (pennsylvania) and Salem (n carolina) shops of the Moravian communities' >> locksmiths and gunstockmakers. from the 1770's and 1780's. not much more >> detail, but the church fathers at salem were concerned about the mischief >> that was caused with the wind gun - evidently quiet mischief. there's two >> in this country, in scattered locations, early. i think they were earlier >> and more common that understood. > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > >------------------------------ > >End of hist_text-digest V1 #283 >******************************* > >- > To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to >"majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: MtMan-List: TEST Date: 18 Apr 1999 16:48:56 -0700 Do not be alarmed, this is only a test ! Pendleton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wefarmasmidgen" Subject: MtMan-List: Spinning wheel Date: 18 Apr 1999 17:14:17 -0500 Sun, 18 Apr 1999 Dennis Mountjoy wrote My wife just acquired a spinning wheel this weekend at an estate auction. Now she wants to learn to use it properly. Does anyone on the list have a recommendation on references on the use of a spinning wheel? She asked _me_ , and I sure can't help. Thanks Dennis Mountjoy Dennis: What kind of wheel? Where do you folks live; I can look in the Spin-off directory of guilds to find one nearest you. Spinners are always happy to help new spinners learn the craft. Your wife would be well off to at least visit a spinning guild nearby at least once or twice to find out what she has and if it is in working order. My favorite "learn to spin" book is "The Ashford Book of Spinning" by Anne Field. While the book deals specifically with the Ashford wheels, the techniques are universal. I would be happy to try to answer questions and help your wife get started. I have been spinning for more than 20 years and recently have found demonstration spining at rendezvous a lot of fun. Let me know. Sally Bridgham at Wefarmasmidgen in Beautiful Southwestern Wisconsin wefarm@pcii.net sally@bridgham.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Horse Tack Date: 18 Apr 1999 19:59:26 -0700 -----Original Message----- >Brothers, > There has been some discussion lately about period halters and such, and I >understand that except fpr the chrome plating on the steel, there isn't much >difference in the halters they used and the ones that are available today. >My question is what did they use when their tack wore out or was stolen? >What did thay make halters, bridles, and such out of ? Did they use >rawhide, elk, buffalo, horse hair, or what ? I know that the traders took a >lot of tack to the rendezvous, but what did they do inbetween time. I know >how to take a lariat, go around a critters neck and put a half hitch over >his nose. Did they use another method other than the lariat and a half >hitch over the nose ? This may be another question that there is no answer >to. I know there are some things that were so common that no one bothered >to write about them, but I would appreciate it if some one might have some >info on these questions. >Pendleton #1572 > > >-------------------- >Aux Ailments de Pays! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous In Okla. Date: 18 Apr 1999 21:30:45 EDT Our local city stopped me in the bank and ask me if I would put on a rendezvous here in our area. With a lot of the asking and work on both parts we are going to have our first annual rendezvous at historic dripping springs. Drippings Springs according to my Okla. History book was an intertribal peace ground, a place of healing. Well, now it's covered by a lake and our rendezvous will be on its shores. The area is remold but has good road access, via a closed county road that will be reopened just for us. Within a short distance through the fields and woods there are hot showers. Our dates are Nov. 11 - 14, 1999 early set up can be done. If anyone is interested contact me off the list at TrapRJoe@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Horse Tack Date: 18 Apr 1999 19:02:01 -0700 Larry, In an old Magazine (The American Rendezvous Magazine, long since defunct) there was a series of articles on horse gear, by Dale Nelson. One of these articles is titled- ' Headstalls and adjustments without Buckles'. It is interesting. It was done by cutting slits in leather strap, then passing other end through to form loops. If any one is Really interested I could make copies to mail. I would ask that anyone interested would cover costs. Contact me off line if interested. Hardtack ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous In Okla. Date: 18 Apr 1999 21:10:22 -0500 That sounds good and you are pretty close to my home in north Texas, but = I am comitted to another rendezvous that same weekend. I wish you luck = and hope you have a large time. Lanney Ratcliff, Texian ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 8:30 PM > Our local city stopped me in the bank and ask me if I would put on a=20 > rendezvous here in our area. With a lot of the asking and work on = both parts=20 > we are going to have our first annual rendezvous at historic dripping=20 > springs. Drippings Springs according to my Okla. History book was an=20 > intertribal peace ground, a place of healing. Well, now it's covered = by a=20 > lake and our rendezvous will be on its shores. The area is remold but = has=20 > good road access, via a closed county road that will be reopened just = for us.=20 > Within a short distance through the fields and woods there are hot = showers. =20 > Our dates are Nov. 11 - 14, 1999 early set up can be done. If anyone = is=20 > interested contact me off the list at TrapRJoe@aol.com >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Sullivan" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TEST Date: 18 Apr 1999 21:24:52 -0500 >Do not be alarmed, this is only a test ! >Pendleton Ay, sir, but a test from the Pendleton may well be something to get alarmed about! Dare I say after that night spent last weekend listening to the howls and laughter from a certain camp within earshot... Mayhap in the future, sir, I may well lighten up and not be so averse to joining in the fray. Was my first rendezvous in many a year, but I think not my last, seeing as how I now have a staked out campsite to clean and new gear of a sorts to purchase. The ground there, though it be sand, is still hard on old bones getting older. YMH&OS, Pointitoes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TEST Date: 18 Apr 1999 22:29:57 -0400 Jim, Go in armed, pan primed, watch yer possibles, don't let yer guard down... And for God's own sake (and yourn) don't pass out or fall asleep... Fair warning.. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -----Original Message----- > > > > >>Do not be alarmed, this is only a test ! >>Pendleton > > >Ay, sir, but a test from the Pendleton may well be something to get alarmed >about! > >Dare I say after that night spent last weekend listening to the howls >and laughter from a certain camp within earshot... > >Mayhap in the future, sir, I may well lighten up and not be so averse to >joining in the fray. Was my first rendezvous in many a year, but I think not >my last, seeing as how I now have a staked out campsite to clean and new >gear of a sorts to purchase. The ground there, though it be sand, is still >hard on old bones getting older. > >YMH&OS, >Pointitoes > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TEST Date: 18 Apr 1999 21:40:29 -0700 Yess sirreee ! As in the days of our forefathers, I do believe in cuttin the dogs loose and having a good time at Rendezvous. Good to have you on board, brother Sullivan ! ! Pendleton -----Original Message----- > > > > >>Do not be alarmed, this is only a test ! >>Pendleton > > >Ay, sir, but a test from the Pendleton may well be something to get alarmed >about! > >Dare I say after that night spent last weekend listening to the howls >and laughter from a certain camp within earshot... > >Mayhap in the future, sir, I may well lighten up and not be so averse to >joining in the fray. Was my first rendezvous in many a year, but I think not >my last, seeing as how I now have a staked out campsite to clean and new >gear of a sorts to purchase. The ground there, though it be sand, is still >hard on old bones getting older. > >YMH&OS, >Pointitoes > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laura Rugel Glise Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Talk of a fine Country Date: 18 Apr 1999 21:50:38 +0000 "Talk of a fine Country" said he "and beautiful places in these mountains if you want to se a beautiful place" said he "go to Hingland and see the Duke of Rutlands Castle" "Aye" says a son of Erin who sat opposite with an Elk rib in one hand and a butcher knife in the other while the sweat rolling from his face mingled in the channels of greas which ran from the corners of his mouth, "Aye an ye would see a pretty place gow to old Ireland and talk a walk in Lord Farmhams domain" that is the place where ye can see "plisure" Arrah an I were upon that same ground this day Id fill my body wid good ould whisky "Yes" said the back woods hunter on my left, as he cast away his bone and smoothed down his long auburn hair with his greasy hand, "Yes you English and Irish are always talking about your fine Countries but if they are so mighty fine" (said he with an oath) "why do so many of you run off and leave them and come to America to get a living" Osborne Russell Journal of a Trapper, or, Nine years in the Rocky Mountains: 1834-1843. p. 64. Humbly submitted, by the second party ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TEST Date: 18 Apr 1999 21:43:02 -0700 Or as they say here in The Republic, " Take a deep seat and a faraway look ". Pendleton -----Original Message----- >Jim, > Go in armed, pan primed, watch yer possibles, don't let yer guard down... >And for God's own sake (and yourn) don't pass out or fall asleep... >Fair warning.. >D > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 >-----Original Message----- >From: James Sullivan >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 10:26 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TEST > > >> >> >> >> >>>Do not be alarmed, this is only a test ! >>>Pendleton >> >> >>Ay, sir, but a test from the Pendleton may well be something to get alarmed >>about! >> >>Dare I say after that night spent last weekend listening to the howls >>and laughter from a certain camp within earshot... >> >>Mayhap in the future, sir, I may well lighten up and not be so averse to >>joining in the fray. Was my first rendezvous in many a year, but I think >not >>my last, seeing as how I now have a staked out campsite to clean and new >>gear of a sorts to purchase. The ground there, though it be sand, is still >>hard on old bones getting older. >> >>YMH&OS, >>Pointitoes >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TEST Date: 18 Apr 1999 21:50:13 -0500 What you may not realize is that my brother Pendleton is a sneaky coup = counter. =20 That treacherous East Texican is very apt to sneak up on you just before = first light and stick a grass stem up your nose, or some damn thing. = However, he is careful to scout the situation beforehand (the night = before over a jug of Hornitos Tequila) so he is pretty certain he won't = get bayoneted by someone who jumps up hollering s about the Viet Cong or = the Blackfeet. I think that he has been lucky so far, if you ask me. = He doesn't pester me much in that manner, possibly because he is not = sure that I won't react badly and he ain't sure how to handle that much = spooked Texian. Or maybe he may want to keep warm some two blanket = night when he has only one blanket. Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 9:29 PM > Jim, > Go in armed, pan primed, watch yer possibles, don't let yer guard = down... > And for God's own sake (and yourn) don't pass out or fall asleep... > Fair warning.. > D >=20 > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > -----Original Message----- > From: James Sullivan > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 10:26 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TEST >=20 >=20 > > > > > > > > > >>Do not be alarmed, this is only a test ! > >>Pendleton > > > > > >Ay, sir, but a test from the Pendleton may well be something to get = alarmed > >about! > > > >Dare I say after that night spent last weekend listening to the = howls > >and laughter from a certain camp within earshot... > > > >Mayhap in the future, sir, I may well lighten up and not be so averse = to > >joining in the fray. Was my first rendezvous in many a year, but I = think > not > >my last, seeing as how I now have a staked out campsite to clean and = new > >gear of a sorts to purchase. The ground there, though it be sand, is = still > >hard on old bones getting older. > > > >YMH&OS, > >Pointitoes > > > > > > >=20 >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Talk of a fine Country Date: 18 Apr 1999 21:54:06 -0500 This girl is a keeper, I tell ya'. If any one of you doesn't have a = copy of Osborne Russell's Journal of a Trapper, then your library is = sadly lacking. I have read mine often. Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 4:50 PM > "Talk of a fine Country" said he "and beautiful places in these > mountains if you want to se a beautiful place" said he "go to Hingland > and see the Duke of Rutlands Castle" "Aye" says a son of Erin who sat > opposite with an Elk rib in one hand and a butcher knife in the other > while the sweat rolling from his face mingled in the channels of greas > which ran from the corners of his mouth, "Aye an ye would see a pretty > place gow to old Ireland and talk a walk in Lord Farmhams domain" that > is the place where ye can see "plisure" Arrah an I were upon that same > ground this day Id fill my body wid good ould whisky "Yes" said the = back > woods hunter on my left, as he cast away his bone and smoothed down = his > long auburn hair with his greasy hand, "Yes you English and Irish are > always talking about your fine Countries but if they are so mighty = fine" > (said he with an oath) "why do so many of you run off and leave them = and > come to America to get a living" >=20 > Osborne Russell > Journal of a Trapper, or, Nine years in the Rocky Mountains: = 1834-1843. > p. 64. >=20 > Humbly submitted, by the second party >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TEST Date: 18 Apr 1999 22:53:31 -0400 Lanney Wrote. >>ain't sure how to handle that much spooked Texian.<< I would trade prime plews to watch that scene... D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "no@gpcom.net" Subject: MtMan-List: tinware Date: 18 Apr 1999 22:11:20 -0700 the tinman of Fremont NE has a small tin coffee pt for $29. His e-mail is hagemann@tvsonline.net Frank no@gpcom.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Horse Tack Date: 18 Apr 1999 20:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Good Day I am sitting here looking at a mid 19th century halter (from an old painting)... the halter is leather, with the straps about 1 1/4" wide, the hardware appears to be iron, not brass. The crown piece, cheek piece and throat latch are connected at their intersection with a iron ring, the nose band is also connected to the cheek piece with an iron ring at it's intersection. Iron buckles (no roller) are attached to the lower nose band and the crown piece to make it adjustable for size. The throat latch does not appear adjustable. The piece that runs from the throat latch to the lower noseband is partially obscured, with only the portion under the chin visible... with a large ring to attach to picket lines or what have you. Just starting down the mounted path of history.... Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho NMLRA member 058863 email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Horse Tack Date: 18 Apr 1999 20:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Good Day I am sitting here looking at a mid 19th century halter (from an old painting)... the halter is leather, with the straps about 1 1/4" wide, the hardware appears to be iron, not brass. The crown piece, cheek piece and throat latch are connected at their intersection with a iron ring, the nose band is also connected to the cheek piece with an iron ring at it's intersection. Iron buckles (no roller) are attached to the lower nose band and the crown piece to make it adjustable for size. The throat latch does not appear adjustable. The piece that runs from the throat latch to the lower noseband is partially obscured, with only the portion under the chin visible... with a large ring to attach to picket lines or what have you. Just starting down the mounted path of history.... Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho NMLRA member 058863 email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Horse Tack Date: 18 Apr 1999 20:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Folks... I apologize for sending multiple copies, headspace and timing problem with the computer operator Lee On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Lee Newbill wrote: > I am sitting here looking at a mid 19th century halter (from an old ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Horse Tack Date: 18 Apr 1999 22:23:49 -0500 Lee I think that most of us are guilty of pilot error on a regular basis. = That was a regular meat and potatos post. I am sorry that I don't have = a horse (but all the horses are glad). Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 10:15 PM > Folks... >=20 > I apologize for sending multiple copies, headspace and timing problem > with the computer operator >=20 > Lee >=20 > On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Lee Newbill wrote: > > I am sitting here looking at a mid 19th century halter (from an old >=20 >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: zaslow Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Horse Tack Date: 18 Apr 1999 20:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Randy, Thanks for the info on the American Rendezvous Magazine and headstalls. I have every issue and I'm going to look up the article. Another book that I have picked up that has some good stuff is called "Western Tack Tips" by Tom Hall. Another Brother got it at a tack store and although it has some modern stuff, it also has some good stuff on how to make old style hackamore's. I have some period correct stuff made with leather and brass made by Marty Deushane and if anyone wants his # and address, I'd be happy to provide it. What I was wondering from reading the original post by John Funk was, where you talking about headstalls or halters? Sounds more like halters. If that is the case, then they could be made of cotton rope much like modern ones in tack stores made of nylon rope. Best Regards, Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Hunt" Subject: MtMan-List: remove leather dye Date: 19 Apr 1999 02:45:25 -0700 I made a belt from some commercially red, maroon dyed leather that come from a scrap leather dealer at friendship. In the summer when wearing the belt, when I sweat the red dye comes off on my shirts. I have tried soaps and water. saddle soap and even some solvents "I work in gravure printing business" so there are many ink removing solvents to try. On a scrap piece when soaking in solvent the leather was ruined. I need to seal or remove the color, any suggestions or help will be appreciated. Thanks John (BIG JOHN) Hunt Longhunter Mountainman southwest Ohio ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Darilek" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: remove leather dye Date: 19 Apr 1999 07:26:33 -0500 I have used household bleach, diluted in water, and left to set a day, stirring often. This process removed all of the color of leather dyed lightly. It came out a grayish white. But I don't know what the result would be with a dark maroon dye, so you might want to test a little first. Some may say the bleach ruins the leather, but I did not find that true. I think I put in about a cup of bleach in one gallon. Glenn Darilek Iron Burner -----Original Message----- > > > > I made a belt from some commercially red, maroon dyed leather that come from a scrap leather dealer at friendship. In the summer >when wearing the belt, when I sweat the red dye comes off on my shirts. I have tried soaps and water. saddle soap and even some >solvents "I work in gravure printing business" so there are many ink removing solvents to try. On a scrap piece when soaking in >solvent the leather was ruined. I need to seal or remove the color, any suggestions or help will be appreciated. > > Thanks > > > >John (BIG JOHN) Hunt >Longhunter >Mountainman >southwest Ohio > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James A Lindberg Subject: MtMan-List: For you Texans (with a sense of humor) Date: 19 Apr 1999 09:26:51 -0500 The Colorado Native's Dream...... > > Three guys, a Nebraskan, a Texan, and a Coloradian are out > walking together one day. They come across a lantern and a > Genie pops out of it. "I will give you each one wish, that's > three wishes total," says the Genie. > > The Nebraskan says, "I am a farmer, my dad was a farmer, > and my son will also farm. I want the land to be forever fertile > in Nebraska." With a blink of the Genie's eye, 'FOOM' the > land in Nebraska was forever made fertile for farming. > > The Texan was amazed, so he said, "I want a wall around > Texas, so that no foreigners can come into our precious state." > Again, with a blink of the Genie's eye, 'POOF' there was a > huge wall around Texas. > > The Coloradian asks, "I'm very curious. Please tell me more > about this wall." The Genie explains, "Well, it's about 150 > feet high, 50 feet thick, and completely surrounds the state. > Nothing can get in or out." > > The Coloradian says, "Fill it up with water." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Austin, Tim" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: For you Texans (with a sense of humor) Date: 19 Apr 1999 09:44:32 -0500 Seems James is jealous. Sorry, all cannot be Texicans. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "john c. funk,jr" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Horse Tack Date: 19 Apr 1999 08:01:05 -0700 Randy, I'd be most interested in a copy of the article "Headstalls and Adjustments Without Buckles". I appreciate your efforts. John Funk 43007 Shoshoni Loop Fall River Mills, CA 96028 -----Original Message----- >Larry, In an old Magazine (The American Rendezvous Magazine, long since >defunct) there was a series of articles on horse gear, by Dale Nelson. >One of these articles is titled- ' Headstalls and adjustments without >Buckles'. It is interesting. It was done by cutting slits in leather >strap, then passing other end through to form loops. If any one is >Really interested I could make copies to mail. I would ask that anyone >interested would cover costs. Contact me off line if interested. >Hardtack > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinware Date: 19 Apr 1999 14:18:47 -0600 For what it's worth, I have several pieces of "The Tin Man's" work in both tin and copper. My wife has one his small coffee pots in copper that she uses for brewing her tea. His prices are better than most, and his products quality is well above what is normally seen at rendezvou. He says he will build any tin ware to your specifications, give him a sketch and he will give it a shot. I paid $60.00 for my wifes copper pot which I think I got the best of the deal. I will without a doubt do business with him again!!! Respectfully, C Webb On Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:11:20 -0700 "no@gpcom.net" writes: >the tinman of Fremont NE has a small tin coffee pt for $29. > His e-mail is hagemann@tvsonline.net > Frank no@gpcom.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tommy Edge Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous In Okla. Date: 19 Apr 1999 16:55:03 -0500 TrapRJoe@aol.com wrote: > Our local city stopped me in the bank and ask me if I would put on a > rendezvous here in our area. With a lot of the asking and work on both parts > we are going to have our first annual rendezvous at historic dripping > springs. Drippings Springs according to my Okla. History book was an > intertribal peace ground, a place of healing. Well, now it's covered by a > lake and our rendezvous will be on its shores. The area is remold but has > good road access, via a closed county road that will be reopened just for us. > Within a short distance through the fields and woods there are hot showers. > Our dates are Nov. 11 - 14, 1999 early set up can be done. If anyone is > interested contact me off the list at TrapRJoe@aol.com where is dripping springs tried to look it up wouldn't come up thank you Tommy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Flying Cloud Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous In Okla. Date: 19 Apr 1999 17:09:22 -0700 Good After Noon If you will send the Where, What and When of your up-coming Rendezvous I will ad it to our web rendezvous list. Thanks -- Jim Ellison, http://www.flyingcloudtrading.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Re: Off Topic: Air Guns Date: 20 Apr 1999 05:16:56 -0700 Lanney, Could you just hold on to the blocks and send me the chain. Buck On Tue, 20 April 1999, Dennis Miles wrote: > > >>LANNEY RUE WROTE<< > > "As I speak I am chaining myself to a large anvil and am going directily to > the highest bridge I can find and throw myself into the water. Why me, oh > Lord? > Spud Ratcliff" > > Lanney.. > If it's not too late...Could you just use a half dozen concrete blocks from > a site?? > And send me the anvil?? I sure hate to see them go to waste.. > Your Brother > Dennis Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous In Okla. Date: 20 Apr 1999 09:38:41 EDT Dripping Springs Lake is just outside Okmulgee, OK. Okmulgee is 35 miles south of Tulsa, OK . Straight down the four lane, interstate 75. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Re: Off Topic: Air Guns Date: 20 Apr 1999 19:59:32 -0500 I gotcher chain. ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 7:16 AM > Lanney, >=20 > Could you just hold on to the blocks and send me the chain. >=20 > Buck >=20 > On Tue, 20 April 1999, Dennis Miles wrote: >=20 > >=20 > > >>LANNEY RUE WROTE<< > >=20 > > "As I speak I am chaining myself to a large anvil and am going = directily to > > the highest bridge I can find and throw myself into the water. Why = me, oh > > Lord? > > Spud Ratcliff" > >=20 > > Lanney.. > > If it's not too late...Could you just use a half dozen concrete = blocks from > > a site?? > > And send me the anvil?? I sure hate to see them go to waste.. > > Your Brother > > Dennis >=20 >=20 > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account = http://www.uswestmail.net >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Re: Off Topic: Air Guns Date: 20 Apr 1999 21:38:23 -0400 Hey Spud... THAT was some snappy repartee. heheheh D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -----Original Message----- I gotcher chain. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 7:16 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Re: Off Topic: Air Guns Date: 20 Apr 1999 18:51:08 -0700 Like a watch chain, and a short one at that. Buck On Tue, 20 April 1999, Dennis Miles wrote: > > Hey Spud... > THAT was some snappy repartee. heheheh > D > > > > > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ratcliff > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Re: Off Topic: Air Guns > > > I gotcher chain. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: Dean Rudy's hist_list > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 7:16 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Re: Off Topic: Air Guns Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: mtmen list - Texians Date: 20 Apr 1999 23:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Thank God for General Sam and his Texians at SanJac April 21, 1836. --- from Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtmen list - Texians Date: 20 Apr 1999 22:23:57 -0500 Thank you for mentioning it, Jon. My family has been in Texas since = before the battle of San Jancinto, but I'm afraid that if one of us had = brought it up the curmudgens lurking on the list would have set up a = howl. The monument to the battle is pretty impressive but being so = near the city of Houston, it is a labor of love to go see it. You ever = been to Houston in the summer? Panama is worse, but not much. How I = "lived" there for seven years remains a mystery to me to this day. Remember the Alamo, Remember Goliad, Long live Tejas!! Lanney Ratcliff, proud Texian ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 10:02 PM > Thank God for General Sam and his Texians at SanJac April 21, 1836. =20 > --- from Michigan >=20 >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dean Rudy Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: Important Lancaster Rendzevous RE: Geneo Beasley Date: 20 Apr 1999 21:32:16 -0600 >From: Gldnponni@aol.com >Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:21:13 EDT >Subject: Important Lancaster Rendzevous RE: Geneo Beasley >To: drudy@xmission.com >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 >Reply-To: Gldnponni@aol.com > >Dean, We are looking for immediate information on the location of the >Lancaster Rendezvous. We are looking for Geneo Beasley. He was supposed to >be in Sun City, CA on April 15 and he needs to call his daughter Sherry for >some urgent family information. Please contact me ASAP. Rick (son) > PonniRidr@aol.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Rock Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #285--Horse tack Date: 20 Apr 1999 23:47:46 -0500 When I lived in Bismark as a kid, I had a book called something like Cowboy Horse Tack by Bruce Grant. I will try and look it up. It had good modern design, then he showed the indian designs. Had some good historical work on horsehair and rawhide. Hell, talking about it brings back memories. Learned how to take my ear off with a bullwhip that summer. Ill find the book. Rock ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: michael pierce Subject: MtMan-List: Re: carrying loaded rifles Date: 21 Apr 1999 01:52:36 EDT john good to hear from you--computer crashed and i didnt have your e-mail address got it back up and lost some of my address book but yours was one of the messages that i had left---wish we were shooting high power at marshel---not many places here to shoot--thats for sure---glad the black powder bug bit you--and glad you are a flint shooter---my brother has never fired a caplock--only flint wont shoot one---told him when i got him started i would build him a gun but he had to shoot flint and only flint---little shit is darn good with it too and never has any problems with misfires when hunting---he says it's the way you take care of it before you load it and whil you are in the field--- again good to hear from you dont be a stranger and if you get in this area look us up--- "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 On Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:06:31 -0600 John Dearing writes: >> >I may be one of those werd ones(BG) but I have been using and >hunting >> >with my old rifle gun for over 40 years and have loaded it on >opening day >> >of deer season and left the load in it for over a week and have >never had >> >a problem with a misfire---you get that problem when you clean the >gun >> >and dont get all the oil and moisture out---"HAWK" > >Good to hear from you Hawk. It's been years since we competed against >one >another in NRA high power at Marshall MO, as well as at an occasional >rendezvous. >Just figured out, for sure, who you were when you mentioned Ole Grizz >patch lube. >I was just beginning to attend rendezvous, and my service rifle scores >weren't >anything >to write home about, so you probably don't remember me, but anyway... > >I agree with everything you said, so I usually leave my guns loaded >through Mo deer >season, unless I have something to shoot at. ;-) Since I shoot >flinters, I plug the >vent >with a feather, and leave the gun on an enclosed porch, locked in the >Jeep, or in an >unheated tent to prevent condensation from forming in the bore due to >temperature >changes. > >One year, I hunted for two days in frosty, misty, weather, and in snow >the >third day. As I crawled out from under a huge cedar tree at the end of >the day, quite >a >large amount of snow fell right smack dab on the barrel/lock of the >rifle. Wiped it >off >pretty quick, and reprimed, hunted my way back to the house, and >cleared the gun >before going inside. She went off after only a short ppfffffft. Hit >the gong dead >center >too. That was in my younger days when I did quite a bit of shooting, >so the hang fire >didn't bother me the least bit. ;-) > >My last post was a response to someone who ask how often the old >timers cleaned >their guns. I only answered with results of my research, but if my >firelock misfires, >I'm only out some fresh meat, and not my life. If put in the same >circumstances of >life and death, I would probably clean and recharge every evening too, >assuming >that particular gun was fired earlier that day. The author didn't say. > I'm sure the >powder and ball were saved and re-used at some point, but nothing was >said about >that. > >Remember, the loads were drawn, not fired at the end of the day. Saves >powder, >and ball, and won't alert the savages to your position. >Your Humble Servant > J.D. > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: michael pierce Subject: MtMan-List: Re: carrying loaded rifles Date: 21 Apr 1999 02:35:31 EDT john good to hear from you--computer crashed and i didnt have your e-mail address got it back up and lost some of my address book but yours was one of the messages that i had left---wish we were shooting high power at marshel---not many places here to shoot--thats for sure---glad the black powder bug bit you--and glad you are a flint shooter---my brother has never fired a caplock--only flint wont shoot one---told him when i got him started i would build him a gun but he had to shoot flint and only flint---little shit is darn good with it too and never has any problems with misfires when hunting---he says it's the way you take care of it before you load it and whil you are in the field--- again good to hear from you dont be a stranger and if you get in this area look us up--- "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 On Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:06:31 -0600 John Dearing writes: >> >I may be one of those werd ones(BG) but I have been using and >hunting >> >with my old rifle gun for over 40 years and have loaded it on >opening day >> >of deer season and left the load in it for over a week and have >never had >> >a problem with a misfire---you get that problem when you clean the >gun >> >and dont get all the oil and moisture out---"HAWK" > >Good to hear from you Hawk. It's been years since we competed against >one >another in NRA high power at Marshall MO, as well as at an occasional >rendezvous. >Just figured out, for sure, who you were when you mentioned Ole Grizz >patch lube. >I was just beginning to attend rendezvous, and my service rifle scores >weren't >anything >to write home about, so you probably don't remember me, but anyway... > >I agree with everything you said, so I usually leave my guns loaded >through Mo deer >season, unless I have something to shoot at. ;-) Since I shoot >flinters, I plug the >vent >with a feather, and leave the gun on an enclosed porch, locked in the >Jeep, or in an >unheated tent to prevent condensation from forming in the bore due to >temperature >changes. > >One year, I hunted for two days in frosty, misty, weather, and in snow >the >third day. As I crawled out from under a huge cedar tree at the end of >the day, quite >a >large amount of snow fell right smack dab on the barrel/lock of the >rifle. Wiped it >off >pretty quick, and reprimed, hunted my way back to the house, and >cleared the gun >before going inside. She went off after only a short ppfffffft. Hit >the gong dead >center >too. That was in my younger days when I did quite a bit of shooting, >so the hang fire >didn't bother me the least bit. ;-) > >My last post was a response to someone who ask how often the old >timers cleaned >their guns. I only answered with results of my research, but if my >firelock misfires, >I'm only out some fresh meat, and not my life. If put in the same >circumstances of >life and death, I would probably clean and recharge every evening too, >assuming >that particular gun was fired earlier that day. The author didn't say. > I'm sure the >powder and ball were saved and re-used at some point, but nothing was >said about >that. > >Remember, the loads were drawn, not fired at the end of the day. Saves >powder, >and ball, and won't alert the savages to your position. >Your Humble Servant > J.D. > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous In Okla. Date: 21 Apr 1999 09:16:15 EDT 35 miles straight south of Tulsa, down Hwy 75. Let me know if you want a flyer mailed to you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous In Okla. Date: 21 Apr 1999 09:32:00 EDT How do I write you? This thing keeps telling me your address is to long. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Pierce Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous In Okla. Date: 21 Apr 1999 11:18:51 -0400 address is as below: hawknest4@juno.com "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(727) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:32:00 EDT TrapRJoe@aol.com writes: >How do I write you? This thing keeps telling me your address is to >long. > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Pierce Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous In Okla. Date: 21 Apr 1999 11:17:25 -0400 please send a flyer --will be in the area hunting about that time so may be able to put it into the schedule---have friends that live in Bokocheto Ok. both him and his son have rifles that i built for them---boy won the North caralina junior championship agrigrate with his gun---now he has to shoot with the adults---so it could get interesting. his father will be hunting with me in arkansas and then i go to hunt with him in oklahoma for deer---he is trying to decide if he wants to spend the money to go to kansas with me for phesents after deer season---is the roo full primitative or is there an area for tin tee pee's and what is the cost. what is the costume requirement. is there more than one aggrigrate---or is it strickly a primitative match--do we need our fire box and hawk and knife for the matches--- "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(727) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:16:15 EDT TrapRJoe@aol.com writes: >35 miles straight south of Tulsa, down Hwy 75. Let me know if you >want a >flyer mailed to you. > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Flying Cloud Subject: MtMan-List: Rendezvous In Okla. Date: 21 Apr 1999 09:09:39 -0700 TrapRJoe@aol.com wrote: > > 35 miles straight south of Tulsa, down Hwy 75. Let me know if you want a > flyer mailed to you. Please send me the date and a contact person, thanks Jim Ellison Flying Cloud Trading Co. www.flyingcloudtrading.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TetonTod@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Henry Route Article Date: 21 Apr 1999 14:36:38 EDT Those of you who have sent checks to me for the article.....just mailed em. Happy Reading Todd Glover ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "landis" Subject: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 21 Apr 1999 18:37:36 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE8C26.071ADF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable can anyone tell me if twill drop front pants are period correct? they = are made by the amish co. thanks adam ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE8C26.071ADF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
can anyone tell me if twill drop = front pants are=20 period correct? they are made by the amish=20 co.           &nbs= p;   =20 thanks         =20 adam
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE8C26.071ADF00-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: MtMan-List: Where? Date: 21 Apr 1999 20:17:07 -0600 Emma Peel. Are you still on the list? Would like to hear from you if you are. Thanks, Don DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laurel huber Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 21 Apr 1999 21:30:28 -0700 --------------8D11535C9FB1366D8E77CE66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for everyday knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet buttons. Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the 1850s, Riverboat period. The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being active. Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have been as common. Anyone else on the list have documentation on the wide spread appearance of the Broad Fall style? landis wrote: > can anyone tell me if twill drop front pants are period correct? they > are made by the amish co. thanks adam --------------8D11535C9FB1366D8E77CE66 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for everyday knock-about use.  They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet buttons.  Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have seen of that period have been Narrow Fall.  You start seeing Broad Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the 1850s, Riverboat period.  The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being active.  Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have been as common.  Anyone else on the list have documentation on the wide spread appearance of the Broad Fall style?

landis wrote:

 can anyone tell me if twill drop front pants are period correct? they are made by the amish co.                thanks          adam
  --------------8D11535C9FB1366D8E77CE66-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laurel huber Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 21 Apr 1999 21:30:28 -0700 --------------8D11535C9FB1366D8E77CE66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for everyday knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet buttons. Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the 1850s, Riverboat period. The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being active. Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have been as common. Anyone else on the list have documentation on the wide spread appearance of the Broad Fall style? landis wrote: > can anyone tell me if twill drop front pants are period correct? they > are made by the amish co. thanks adam --------------8D11535C9FB1366D8E77CE66 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for everyday knock-about use.  They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet buttons.  Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have seen of that period have been Narrow Fall.  You start seeing Broad Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the 1850s, Riverboat period.  The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being active.  Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have been as common.  Anyone else on the list have documentation on the wide spread appearance of the Broad Fall style?

landis wrote:

 can anyone tell me if twill drop front pants are period correct? they are made by the amish co.                thanks          adam
  --------------8D11535C9FB1366D8E77CE66-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Where? Date: 22 Apr 1999 00:16:52 EDT Oh yes I certainly am, Ollie :) Just found three more St. Vrain descendants and we just went over the 500 person mark. Off to France in the summer to find the traditional landholdings of the DeLassus/St. Vrain families...all in all though, I'd rather be roasting chickory at Bent's Fort. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Where? Date: 22 Apr 1999 16:17:17 -0600 Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: Where? Glad to hear it. I was wondering what research you have been doing. Is = it just the family tree or all kinds of info? And how much of it would = you be willing to share? The reason I am asking is that I have begun = writing a book on Ceran and of course any and all info would be = appreciated. Unless of course, you are going to write one in which case I = would be glad to help if you want it. I live in Pueblo, CO-do you live clo= se? Anyaway, let me know and talk to you later. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants EmmaPeel2 wrote: >Oh yes I certainly am, Ollie :) Just found three more St. Vrain = descendants = >and we just went over the 500 person mark. Off to France in the summer = to = >find the traditional landholdings of the DeLassus/St. Vrain families...= all in = >all though, I'd rather be roasting chickory at Bent's Fort. :) > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with = ESMTP > (SMTPD32-5.01) id A345E600D8; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:19:17 -0600 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10aAx9-0001CQ-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:19:07 -0600 > Received: from [198.81.17.8] (helo=3Dimo18.mx.aol.com) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10aAx6-00018h-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:19:04 -0600 > Received: from EmmaPeel2@aol.com (14435) > by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id fKJFa13354 > for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:16:54 -0400 (= EDT) > From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com > Message-ID: > Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:16:52 EDT > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Where? > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > X-RCPT-TO: > X-UIDL: 930 > Status: U > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous In Okla. Date: 23 Apr 1999 09:37:10 EDT Sorry Hawk I have your address, it was another address that said it was to long, I must have messed up. I plan on sending you your indigo today also. It's in the kitchen sink as I type. I will include a flyer with your indigo. TrapRJoe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous In Okla. Date: 23 Apr 1999 09:40:46 EDT November 11 - 14, 1999 and I am the contact person. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 23 Apr 1999 16:30:55 -0700 In reply to your question on the Amish work pants sold by several shops around the country. >On Wed, 21 April 1999, Laurel huber wrote: >I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for >everyday knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet >buttons. These pants are suited for Civil War and later into the westered movement, to late for fur trade. In Hanson's sketch books you'll see drop fronts, but they have a narrow drop, Buck Conner has an original pair of breeches that belonged to Marino Medina that are drop front and Hanson figured they were late 1840's to 1860's - narrow drop front. >Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade >re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have >seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad >Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the >1850s,Riverboat period. I am Amish and my relations came here in the mid 1700's to work as farmers to supply the demands of Phila. and other cities on the east coast. We can date our relations back over 300 years, so I don't understand what you are saying. If working and supplying a demand is not active then what is ! Turtle. >The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being >active. Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have >been as common. Anyone else on the list have documentation on the >wide spread appearance of the Broad Fall style? Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Dearing Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Date: 23 Apr 1999 18:39:01 -0500 > >john > >good to hear from you--computer crashed and i didnt have your e-mail > >address got it back up and lost some of my address book but yours was one > >of the messages that i had left---wish we were shooting high power at > >marshel---not many places here to shoot--thats for sure---glad the black > >powder bug bit you--and glad you are a flint shooter---my brother has > >never fired a caplock--only flint wont shoot one---told him when i got > >him started i would build him a gun but he had to shoot flint and only > >flint---little shit is darn good with it too and never has any problems > >with misfires when hunting---he says it's the way you take care of it > >before you load it and whil you are in the field--- > > >again good to hear from you dont be a stranger and if you get in this > >area look us up--- Hey Hawk, Bucksnort range at Marshal is still there and hosting high power matches, not as much fun as BP shoots, but still a place to shoot. All ya gotta do is show up and bang away. ;-) I was shooting BP before I started high power, just put it on hold while the NG had the bucks to subsidize my shooting career, if you want to call it that. I did start bp shooting with a rifle I made from a bunch of parts bought from Dixie, and it did, kind of, look like a rifle, then graduated to a Lyman Great Plains, and then a flint gun bought in the white from Paul DeSablon's (sp)shop on Sappington Rd in S. St. Louis. That gun had a Sharon barrel and Robbin's lock dated 1977. Still have that gun, and it has taken its share of game and prizes, but it has seen better days. The fizzen needs to be resoled. I'll get to it one of these days...after I finish some of those other unfinished projects. Come on up to Old Mines in May, or the June shoot at Ft. DeChartre, or even Ft. Hill in Sept and I'll give you a few lessons on how to shoot that flinter. Oh yeah, your brother is right. Flint guns are real reliable in all sorts of weather IF you give 'em enough TLC. Talk to you later. John Dearing ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Where? Date: 23 Apr 1999 20:08:25 EDT Hi we live in Albuquerque,New Mexico.The family is scattered pretty much now - but the bulk still live around St. Louis and in Colorado. I was in Taos a while back, and a store owner told me that a descendent of Felicitas St. Vrain Gallegos (Ceran's daughter) had visited and was starting her own genealogy -- gee wish he'd have gotten her address! Our connection to Ceran, as you may recall, was through his nephew Benedict. There was much hanky panky going on with the family money after Ceran's death, and Benedict seized control (he was apparently given the OK by Ceran before he died, which makes us wonder what was up with HIS children, Vincente and Felix. We do know that Amelia, Vincentes wife remarried after he died in 1876 - she moved to California. However she kept close touch with the St. Vrains, and often bragged to her grandchildren how she was once Ceran's daughter in law!) We were in contact with Paul St. Vrain about twenty years ago. He had tons of stuff - I shall try to track him down again. Crikes, this is exciting..we just went over the 500 mark in descendents, and many of them are big into this stuff :) If you want to contact Bob Dodson (Benedicts descendent) he is DFRwin@aol.com, or you can call him in the evening at 505-899-9301. Cheers! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 -0700 Hello Camp, Turtle, sounds like this lady hit a nerve about Amish being around a short time. I'm doing some research on "Folk Medicine" for the next catalog and the Amish, and Mennonites (both spin-offs of the PA Dutch or sometimes called PA Germans)keep popping up with "cures" that date back well into the 1760's. Not sure when the groups went different ways, but seems to be in the early 1800's, that some members were unhappy with some teachings and set up their own churches, schools and settlements in NY, PA, OH and points west. One of the authors that writes about early life in the Amish settlements is John Hostetler, well know prof from Temple Univ., is he related - knowing that's your mother's maiden name ! When I saw the posting about the Amish drop fall pants, "I thought you would make note of it, say not". I looked in Lehman's (Amish) catalog for information on clothing - nothing, next figured probably the best place would be "Rural Pennsylvania Clothing" by Ellen J. Gehret. On page 133 he shows breeches very similar to Marino Medina's with a small drop fall front and draw string adjustable panel in the back. Another pair on page 148 of a different material and wider drop front are still early styles. Now on page 150 you see a pair like mentioned in this posting, Gehert says they are of the 19th century - doesn't say early or late. I would wager that they are after the Civil War, as most of the stuff in the location of these pants,(Chester County Historical Society) is 1850's and later. The reason I say that is I knew several families that gave large amounts of household goods, clothing, etc. to this association back in the 1950's, when I was still living in Chester County, PA. They had Civil War related items and later, Valley Forge under the care of Vernon Bigsby had all the pre Rev. War to the 1840's stuff sewed up in that museum. Like you stated these are a little late for the fur trade, sorry to make this so long, wanted to let this gentleam know we have done some research on these pants. Buck Conner dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile __________________________ >On Fri, 23 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > > In reply to your question on the Amish work pants sold by several shops around the country. > > >On Wed, 21 April 1999, Laurel huber wrote: > >I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for >everyday knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet >buttons. > > These pants are suited for Civil War and later into the westered movement, to late for fur trade. In Hanson's sketch books you'll see drop fronts, but they have a narrow drop, Buck Conner has an original pair of breeches that belonged to Marino Medina that are drop front and Hanson figured they were late 1840's to 1860's - narrow drop front. > > >Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade > >re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have > >seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad >Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the >1850s,Riverboat period. > > I am Amish and my relations came here in the mid 1700's to work as farmers to supply the demands of Phila. and other cities on the east coast. We can date our relations back over 300 years, so I don't understand what you are saying. If working and supplying a demand is not active then what is ! Turtle. > > >The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being >active. Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have >been as common. Anyone else on the list have documentation on the >wide spread appearance of the Broad Fall style? > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants(OFF TOPIC) Date: 23 Apr 1999 19:43:16 -0700 Hey, as I recall you've got some Pennsylvania Dutch or Amish in your background, I was waiting for you to stand up and be heard. Are you near the Littleton school that we are hearing about on the news, that's terrible what has happened to those kids. What the hell were the families doing when these kids are gathering up all the stuff for a young war, got their head in the sand or what ??? Scary thing is it could happen anywhere with some of these kids today, hell when we grew up all we had to do was wait for the draft, and you would get all the action we wanted with Vietnam no matter what our temper was. Turtle. >On Fri, 23 April 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote: > Hello Camp, > > Turtle, sounds like this lady hit a nerve about Amish being around a short time. > > I'm doing some research on "Folk Medicine" for the next catalog and the Amish, and Mennonites (both spin-offs of the PA Dutch or sometimes called PA Germans)keep popping up with "cures" that date back well into the 1760's. Not sure when the groups went different ways, but seems to be in the early 1800's, that some members were unhappy with some teachings and set up their own churches, schools and settlements in NY, PA, OH and points west. > > One of the authors that writes about early life in the Amish settlements is John Hostetler, well know prof from Temple Univ., is he related - knowing that's your mother's maiden name ! > > When I saw the posting about the Amish drop fall pants, "I thought you would make note of it, say not". > > I looked in Lehman's (Amish) catalog for information on clothing - nothing, next figured probably the best place would be "Rural Pennsylvania Clothing" by Ellen J. Gehret. On page 133 he shows breeches very similar to Marino Medina's with a small drop fall front and draw string adjustable panel in the back. Another pair on page 148 of a different material and wider drop front are still early styles. Now on page 150 you see a pair like mentioned in this posting, Gehert says they are of the 19th century - doesn't say early or late. > > I would wager that they are after the Civil War, as most of the stuff in the location of these pants,(Chester County Historical Society) is 1850's and later. The reason I say that is I knew several families that gave large amounts of household goods, clothing, etc. to this association back in the 1950's, when I was still living in Chester County, PA. They had Civil War related items and later, Valley Forge under the care of Vernon Bigsby had all the pre Rev. War to the 1840's stuff sewed up in that museum. > > Like you stated these are a little late for the fur trade, sorry to make this so long, wanted to let this gentleam know we have done some research on these pants. > > Buck Conner > dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile > __________________________ > >On Fri, 23 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > > > > In reply to your question on the Amish work pants sold by several shops around the country. > > > > >On Wed, 21 April 1999, Laurel huber wrote: > > >I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for >everyday knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet >buttons. > > > > These pants are suited for Civil War and later into the westered movement, to late for fur trade. In Hanson's sketch books you'll see drop fronts, but they have a narrow drop, Buck Conner has an original pair of breeches that belonged to Marino Medina that are drop front and Hanson figured they were late 1840's to 1860's - narrow drop front. > > > > >Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade > > >re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have > > >seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad >Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the >1850s,Riverboat period. > > > > I am Amish and my relations came here in the mid 1700's to work as farmers to supply the demands of Phila. and other cities on the east coast. We can date our relations back over 300 years, so I don't understand what you are saying. If working and supplying a demand is not active then what is ! Turtle. > > > > >The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being >active. Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have >been as common. Anyone else on the list have documentation on the >wide spread appearance of the Broad Fall style? > > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: mtmen list: phrase in movie Date: 23 Apr 1999 23:32:08 -0400 (EDT) When Bear Claw tells Johnson "watch yer top knot" hunch is that he's tellin him to guard his scalp under his hat (which may have a cord knot in it ???) Lanney - The farthest west or south I've ever been was to Kansas in August of 76 for one week - 103 every day. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 23 Apr 1999 21:39:38 -0600 Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Buck - I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you gentlemen on = the drop front trousers. From everything I have read, drop front trousers = switched to button front flys starting about 1841. After that time, the = only drop front pants worn were by the military(always a day late & dollar = short). = My wife and I do quite a bit of research on clothing, have several books = on clothing, but certainly don't know it all. This is just what we have = found. Don Keas buck.conner wrote: >Hello Camp, > >Turtle, sounds like this lady hit a nerve about Amish being around a = short time. > >I'm doing some research on "Folk Medicine" for the next catalog and the = >Amish, and Mennonites (both spin-offs of the PA Dutch or sometimes called = PA = >Germans)keep popping up with "cures" that date back well into the 1760's. = Not sure when = >the groups went different ways, but seems to be in the early 1800's, that = some = >members were unhappy with some teachings and set up their own churches, = schools and = >settlements in NY, PA, OH and points west. > >One of the authors that writes about early life in the Amish settlements = is = >John Hostetler, well know prof from Temple Univ., is he related - knowing = that's = >your mother's maiden name ! > >When I saw the posting about the Amish drop fall pants, "I thought you = >would make note of it, say not". > >I looked in Lehman's (Amish) catalog for information on clothing - = nothing, = >next figured probably the best place would be "Rural Pennsylvania = Clothing" by = >Ellen J. Gehret. On page 133 he shows breeches very similar to Marino = Medina's = >with a small drop fall front and draw string adjustable panel in the back.= Another = >pair on page 148 of a different material and wider drop front are still = early = >styles. Now on page 150 you see a pair like mentioned in this posting, Geh= ert says = >they are of the 19th century - doesn't say early or late. > >I would wager that they are after the Civil War, as most of the stuff in = >the location of these pants,(Chester County Historical Society) is 1850's = and = >later. The reason I say that is I knew several families that gave large = amounts of = >household goods, clothing, etc. to this association back in the 1950's, = when I was = >still living in Chester County, PA. They had Civil War related items and = later, = >Valley Forge under the care of Vernon Bigsby had all the pre Rev. War to = the 1840's = >stuff sewed up in that museum.. > >Like you stated these are a little late for the fur trade, sorry to make = >this so long, wanted to let this gentleam know we have done some research = on these = >pants. > >Buck Conner >dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile >__________________________ >>On Fri, 23 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: >> = >> In reply to your question on the Amish work pants sold by several shops = >around the country. >> = >> >On Wed, 21 April 1999, Laurel huber wrote: >> >I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for >everyday = >knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet >buttons. >> = >> These pants are suited for Civil War and later into the westered = >movement, to late for fur trade. In Hanson's sketch books you'll see drop = fronts, but = >they have a narrow drop, Buck Conner has an original pair of breeches = that belonged = >to Marino Medina that are drop front and Hanson figured they were late = 1840's to = >1860's - narrow drop front. >> = >> >Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade >> >re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have >> >seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad = >>Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the >= 1850s,Riverboat = >period. >> = >> I am Amish and my relations came here in the mid 1700's to work as = >farmers to supply the demands of Phila. and other cities on the east = coast. We can date = >our relations back over 300 years, so I don't understand what you are = saying. If = >working and supplying a demand is not active then what is ! Turtle. >> = >> >The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being >= active. = >Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have >been as = common. = >Anyone else on the list have documentation on the >wide spread appearance = of the = >Broad Fall style? >> = > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with = ESMTP > (SMTPD32-5.01) id AE6D13E0074; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:17 -0600 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10arFh-0005rC-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:05 -0600 > Received: from [209.228.14.84] (helo=3Dc000.sfo.cp.net) > by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10arFe-0005ql-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:02 -0600 > Received: (cpmta 22316 invoked from network); 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 -0700 > Date: 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 -0700 > Message-ID: <19990424012901.22315.cpmta@c000.sfo.cp.net> > X-Sent: 24 Apr 1999 01:29:01 GMT > Received: from [12.74.73.74] by mail.uswestmail.net with HTTP; > 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 PDT > Content-Type: text/plain > Content-Disposition: inline > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > From: > X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.0 > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > X-RCPT-TO: > X-UIDL: 953 > Status: U > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtmen list: phrase in movie Date: 23 Apr 1999 23:24:00 -0500 Come on down....some October. You might not like August. Lanney ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:32 PM > When Bear Claw tells Johnson "watch yer top knot" hunch is that he's > tellin him to guard his scalp under his hat (which may have a cord = knot > in it ???) >=20 > Lanney - The farthest west or south I've ever been was to Kansas in > August of 76 for one week - 103 every day. >=20 >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 24 Apr 1999 06:21:41 -0700 Don, The next issue of T&LR will have a documented pair of drop front breeches that are believed to have belonged to Marino Medina that were commerically made in the 1850's to 1860's, manufactured in Calif. and were very popular according to Charles E. Hanson, Jr. They were made of a fine leather, brass stud style buttons sewed on - mostly machine sewed with fine hand work on the waist band. Charley had a jacket that was a match to these breeches, Mrs. E. Gates that wrote the book on Medina also had a pair of these breeches that had belong to a gentleman from Loveland around the same period. She had a picture of Louie Papa wearing the pair I have around the turn of the century in a parade in Ft. Collins CO. We'renot talking military Don, the reference is to the drop front pants that the Amish and several other "sexes" or "clans" of common people have been wearing for decades and still wear today. I know what you mean by the military fashion as a general rule of thumb, but like Medina's and others it doesn't alway quite fit. Take a look at the book I referred to and that whole section on pants. Buck >On Fri, 23 April 1999, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > > Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > Buck - I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you gentlemen on the drop front trousers. From everything I have read, drop front trousers switched to button front flys starting about 1841. After that time, the only drop front pants worn were by the military(always a day late & dollar short). My wife and I do quite a bit of research on clothing, have several books on clothing, but certainly don't know it all. This is just what we have found. Don Keas > > > buck.conner wrote: > >Hello Camp, > > > >Turtle, sounds like this lady hit a nerve about Amish being around a short time. > > > >I'm doing some research on "Folk Medicine" for the next catalog and the >Amish, and Mennonites (both spin-offs of the PA Dutch or sometimes called PA >Germans)keep popping up with "cures" that date back well into the 1760's. Not sure when >the groups went different ways, but seems to be in the early 1800's, that some >members were unhappy with some teachings and set up their own churches, schools and >settlements in NY, PA, OH and points west. > > > >One of the authors that writes about early life in the Amish settlements is >John Hostetler, well know prof from Temple Univ., is he related - knowing that's >your mother's maiden name ! > > > >When I saw the posting about the Amish drop fall pants, "I thought you >would make note of it, say not". > > > >I looked in Lehman's (Amish) catalog for information on clothing - nothing, >next figured probably the best place would be "Rural Pennsylvania Clothing" by >Ellen J. Gehret. On page 133 he shows breeches very similar to Marino Medina's >with a small drop fall front and draw string adjustable panel in the back. Another >pair on page 148 of a different material and wider drop front are still early >styles. Now on page 150 you see a pair like mentioned in this posting, Gehert says >they are of the 19th century - doesn't say early or late. > > > >I would wager that they are after the Civil War, as most of the stuff in >the location of these pants,(Chester County Historical Society) is 1850's and >later. The reason I say that is I knew several families that gave large amounts of >household goods, clothing, etc. to this association back in the 1950's, when I was >still living in Chester County, PA. They had Civil War related items and later, >Valley Forge under the care of Vernon Bigsby had all the pre Rev. War to the 1840's >stuff sewed up in that museum.. > > > >Like you stated these are a little late for the fur trade, sorry to make >this so long, wanted to let this gentleam know we have done some research on these >pants. > > > >Buck Conner > >dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile > >__________________________ > >>On Fri, 23 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > >> >> In reply to your question on the Amish work pants sold by several shops >around the country. > >> >> >On Wed, 21 April 1999, Laurel huber wrote: > >> >I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for >everyday >knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet >buttons. > >> >> These pants are suited for Civil War and later into the westered >movement, to late for fur trade. In Hanson's sketch books you'll see drop fronts, but >they have a narrow drop, Buck Conner has an original pair of breeches that belonged >to Marino Medina that are drop front and Hanson figured they were late 1840's to >1860's - narrow drop front. > >> >> >Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade > >> >re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have > >> >seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad >>Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the >1850s,Riverboat >period. > >> >> I am Amish and my relations came here in the mid 1700's to work as >farmers to supply the demands of Phila. and other cities on the east coast. We can date >our relations back over 300 years, so I don't understand what you are saying. If >working and supplying a demand is not active then what is ! Turtle. > >> >> >The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being >active. >Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have >been as common. >Anyone else on the list have documentation on the >wide spread appearance of the >Broad Fall style? > >> > > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > > > > > >RFC822 header > >----------------------------------- > > > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with ESMTP > > (SMTPD32-5.01) id AE6D13E0074; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:17 -0600 > > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > > id 10arFh-0005rC-00 > > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:05 -0600 > > Received: from [209.228.14.84] (helo=c000.sfo.cp.net) > > by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > > id 10arFe-0005ql-00 > > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:02 -0600 > > Received: (cpmta 22316 invoked from network); 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 -0700 > > Date: 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 -0700 > > Message-ID: <19990424012901.22315.cpmta@c000.sfo.cp.net> > > X-Sent: 24 Apr 1999 01:29:01 GMT > > Received: from [12.74.73.74] by mail.uswestmail.net with HTTP; > > 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 PDT > > Content-Type: text/plain > > Content-Disposition: inline > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > From: > > X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.0 > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > Precedence: bulk > > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > X-RCPT-TO: > > X-UIDL: 953 > > Status: U > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants(OFF TOPIC) Date: 24 Apr 1999 06:34:27 -0700 Yes on the first question - some. Yes, on the second question, used to live within a few blocks of that school and have seen some of the kids that lost their lives, but really didn't know them. The jerks that did the deed live in a new development that went up after I moved, so don't know them or their families. But have seen many kids with the black trenchcoats at the mall up the street - seems to be a popular dress item around here for a period. This hit at the worst time, we were about to get some changes for gun control in favor of lightening some of the pressure of some laws, but that went out the window after last Tuesday. Every channel for local TV is about this and gun control, what about kid control or their mother and father control. I quess it's like hearing what "Slick Willy" did, being out of control, of course he didn't kill anyone that they can prove. Buck >On Fri, 23 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > > Hey, as I recall you've got some Pennsylvania Dutch or Amish in your background, I was waiting for you to stand up and be heard. > Are you near the Littleton school that we are hearing about on the news, that's terrible what has happened to those kids. > What the hell were the families doing when these kids are gathering up all the stuff for a young war, got their head in the sand or what ??? > Scary thing is it could happen anywhere with some of these kids today, hell when we grew up all we had to do was wait for the draft, and you would get all the action we wanted with Vietnam no matter what our temper was. > Turtle. > > >On Fri, 23 April 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote: > > Hello Camp, > > > > Turtle, sounds like this lady hit a nerve about Amish being around a short time. > > > > I'm doing some research on "Folk Medicine" for the next catalog and the Amish, and Mennonites (both spin-offs of the PA Dutch or sometimes called PA Germans)keep popping up with "cures" that date back well into the 1760's. Not sure when the groups went different ways, but seems to be in the early 1800's, that some members were unhappy with some teachings and set up their own churches, schools and settlements in NY, PA, OH and points west. > > > > One of the authors that writes about early life in the Amish settlements is John Hostetler, well know prof from Temple Univ., is he related - knowing that's your mother's maiden name ! > > > > When I saw the posting about the Amish drop fall pants, "I thought you would make note of it, say not". > > > > I looked in Lehman's (Amish) catalog for information on clothing - nothing, next figured probably the best place would be "Rural Pennsylvania Clothing" by Ellen J. Gehret. On page 133 he shows breeches very similar to Marino Medina's with a small drop fall front and draw string adjustable panel in the back. Another pair on page 148 of a different material and wider drop front are still early styles. Now on page 150 you see a pair like mentioned in this posting, Gehert says they are of the 19th century - doesn't say early or late. > > > > I would wager that they are after the Civil War, as most of the stuff in the location of these pants,(Chester County Historical Society) is 1850's and later. The reason I say that is I knew several families that gave large amounts of household goods, clothing, etc. to this association back in the 1950's, when I was still living in Chester County, PA. They had Civil War related items and later, Valley Forge under the care of Vernon Bigsby had all the pre Rev. War to the 1840's stuff sewed up in that museum. > > > > Like you stated these are a little late for the fur trade, sorry to make this so long, wanted to let this gentleam know we have done some research on these pants. > > > > Buck Conner > > dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile > > __________________________ > > >On Fri, 23 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > > > > > > In reply to your question on the Amish work pants sold by several shops around the country. > > > > > > >On Wed, 21 April 1999, Laurel huber wrote: > > > >I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for >everyday knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet >buttons. > > > > > > These pants are suited for Civil War and later into the westered movement, to late for fur trade. In Hanson's sketch books you'll see drop fronts, but they have a narrow drop, Buck Conner has an original pair of breeches that belonged to Marino Medina that are drop front and Hanson figured they were late 1840's to 1860's - narrow drop front. > > > > > > >Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade > > > >re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have > > > >seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad >Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the >1850s,Riverboat period. > > > > > > I am Amish and my relations came here in the mid 1700's to work as farmers to supply the demands of Phila. and other cities on the east coast. We can date our relations back over 300 years, so I don't understand what you are saying. If working and supplying a demand is not active then what is ! Turtle. > > > > > > >The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being >active. Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have >been as common. Anyone else on the list have documentation on the >wide spread appearance of the Broad Fall style? > > > > > > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: : Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 24 Apr 1999 07:27:10 -0700 > >On Fri, 23 April 1999, Michael Pierce wrote: > > > > buck is it true you have a pair od mario madena paints---tell me about > > them in detail---where did you get them and how are they documented---I > > have a bunch of historical stuff also--- > > > > let me know the scoop--- > > > > "Hawk" > > Michael Pierce > > 854 Glenfield Dr. > > Palm Harbor, florida 34684 ___________________________________ You asked for it Hawk, it's a little long and according to the AMM editor it will be in the next issue of Tomahawk & Long Rifle (which is a great magazine with very interesting articles and history of the fur trade, now available for subscriptions to non-members, will get yearly price and address if anyone is interested). Had to plug the magazine, our editor is a very hard working fellow and gets on list very little. This article was talking about breeches or short pants in the fur trade more than about drop front pants. I read an article entitled "The Well-Dressed Explorer" by Jeff Gottfred of the NWBC located in Calgary, Canada; in the article he mentions David Thompson's leather trousers and long wool socks, along with Samuel Johnson's dictionary's remarks of trousers used in outposts and common wear on the frontier. NOTE I have always felt that one of the problems found in living history has been the dating of men’s clothing, especially civilian clothing, seems to be volumes on the subject - but for women’s clothing. After years of research on what is correct and what is questionable, I have found that knowing military clothing is extremely helpful in dating civilian wares. A good example, the British Army went from the fly front to the fall front knee breeches in the Clothing Warrent of 1768. Thus, military usually changes fashion late, the front fly was probably going out of civilian style in the early 1790’s. If portraying a fashionable gentlemen from Philadelphia, Annapolis or St. Louis, you would be wearing fall front breeches or trousers. But if you were a farmer in the same period you would likely have fly front’s. Fly front breeches were developed around 1650 and in a hundred and fifty years, change was the tightness and size of the waistband going from 4 - 6 inches in 1730 - 1750, to 2 - 2 1/2 inch range found on late 1830 - 1850 fall fronts. This article reminded me of an item I found twenty-five years ago when living in northern Colorado, northwest of the town of Loveland in a small valley called the Buckhorn Canyon (named by Mariano Medina, the Colorado Mountainman). Medina was reported to have shot and killed several young Utes that had stolen horses from his place of business west of Loveland and had rode them a few miles up this canyon when Medina caught up with them. This same canyon was where it was reported that his daughter was buried. My wife at the time and her family had several hundred acres of which only half was farm-able, the rest was used for pasture and a small sandstone quarry, it was narrow in width and followed the Buckhorn Canyon ridge down into the valley. Only a few miles from the Big Thompson River that Mariano Medina had his toll bridge on for years, charging from as little as $ .25 a wagon on a busy day to as high as $ 10.00 a wagon on a slow day to cross this river.According to the local paper, these charges helped newcomers make up their mind about settling on one side or the other of the Thompson, with small settlements springing up in the area like Berthoud, Campeon and Medina Flat's. My father-in-law told me as a young boy growing up in the valley he could remember when the Utes would come to town and everyone would gather their tools and vegetables and store them inside until they passed, he said they were looked at as gypsies and known to steal loose items laying around and sell those items in town for booze. This seemed to be the only problem as he recalls was ever present with these people that lived at the northern end of the canyon. Around 1935 the local college - CSU, in Fort Collins was called to look at a grave site that was uncovered in the sandstone quarry on the family property, it was decided to be possibly Native American, a women buried sitting up. The college would return in a week to remove the body and look for additional clues at the site. In the remaining time the local farmers feared that removing these remains of this person could bring a curse on their valley and decided to cover the grave and not give permission to anyone to touch the site. My father-in-law had the pre-mix concrete company pour an 8" slab on top of the grave and then pushed 3 to 4 feet of dirt and riff-raff (broken rock from the quarry) on the slab. When the college showed up a few days later they wanted the court to issue an order to remove the body (believed to be Medina's daughter, Lena) after several meetings with the valley farmers, the subject was dropped. Now that you have a little history of this valley we'll get back to the trousers, forty years later I was building fence on this property in the hills above the farm ground and found a small pocket, not really a cave per say. A friend says we were looking for rattlesnakes, not building fence, can't remember, spent a lot of time in these hills year around hunting and just looking around. This was a large flat rolling area that runs for 6-7 miles; not bad walking, with lots of game - rabbits, turkey, mule and whitetail deer, and a local herd of elk. Anyway whatever we were doing we could see something in this loaf shaped hole and after several hours of probing with long sticks we removed some of the larger rocks to a point where we could see there were no snakes in our pocket under this opening in the side of the hill. Still not really comfortable I crawled inside with a flashlight and a small shovel and started scraping the ground looking for anything that could have been drug into this natural living quarters that appeared to have housed some local coyotes. Most of the items were clean bones, a few pieces of skull of small animals, three old beads and a hard ball of leather that looked like an old shirt, torn but it looked like it was all there. We figured the beads came from the activities of a local mountainman club that ran monthly shoots on the property, other items were the gathering of the local residents of this den, the coyotes. I soaked the hard ball of leather for several days in a 5 gallon bucket of water, once soft the ball was stretched on a plywood surface and tacked down, the possible leather shirt turns out to be leather breeches that were manufactured by there appearance. Much of the construction was of the early style of machine sewing, commercial type brass buttons, small drop front design with the adjustable waist band tie in the back. The waist band is whip stitched, about 15-16 stitches to the inch with a canvas type material sandwiched between the leather for extra support. The brass button are of the dished style with crude lettering of the manufacturer, now white with mineral deposits. the legs are slightly tapered to the knee with the usual buttoned cuff below the knee and the bulky butt area like the military ones of the early 1800's. After showing the breeches to the local museum in Loveland, I was sent to the library in search of a Mrs. Zethyl Gates - librarian and local historian. At the time she was still working on a book about local mountainman Marino Medina (since that time she has done several books, articles and papers about this man). She has spent most of her working life researching Medina and others of the late fur trade in Colorado and Wyoming, even went to Spain to research Medina's family history. When walking into the library I was sent to her office at once with my old beat-up leather trousers and found a very excited Mrs. Gates, she had been called by the museum about these breeches. She showed me a late picture of Marino wearing breeches like the ones I have found and another picture of Louie Papa (Medina's step-son) wearing the same breeches, taken in a parade in Loveland after the turn of the century. Interesting, but questionable as to whether they were his or someone else's and how did the trousers get on this hill? A few years later I was visiting an old friend in Chadron, NE; Charles E. Hanson, Jr., may have heard of him, showed him the old breeches and told him the story and Mrs. Gates interest. He said, " let's go to my study, and the museum (Museum of the Fur Trade) want to show you something". Charles points out a leather coat with similar brass buttons and similar construction, had been purchased from a family in northern Colorado at a gun show and traded around for a period before finding its new home at the museum. The next thing out of Charles mouth was "how much". According to Mr. Hanson this type of coat and pants (trousers) were made commercially in California during the late fur trade and still available after the Indian Wars. Much of this style of garment saw sales in the traders tents and posts across the Rockies during this period, along with long wool and cotton socks. Interesting how the article about David Thompson's leather breeches brought about this story for your reading pleasure. Then just 6-8 months ago Wes Housler of Rocky Mountain College Productions mentioned the idea of breeches or short pantaloons over the phone as we were talking about what supplies would be needed from Clark & Sons Mercantile for their next adventure in the Rockies, that will be filmed making number #2 in a series of items covering the Fur Trade. I told Wes of what you had just read and we both thought this would be very interesting to anyone working as a trapper or doing fur trade re-enactments. Wes, like our old friend of the fur trade that has now passed to the other side - Charles E. Hanson, Jr, both have found countless sources of information on the subject in journals as well as reference to the use in of breeches in many accounts of life on the frontier. Wes has also found reference to the use of these garments in supply lists from a number of suppliers, trading posts and forts. I have had similar experiences; as well as having a late fur trade period pair of breeches, believed to have possibility belonged to Marino Medina. Using pictures from Colorado Historical Society, photo's from the Zethyl Gates's collection, photo's from the Loveland Reporter Herald that has run accounts of the local mountainman's adventures; plus with the knowledge of Mr. Hanson on the style - cut - manufacture and material used in these short pants and the location of their storage for years has helped to bring ownership closer. I not going any further than this with article that Bill has published in the T&LR, but will give you some sources. Sources: Ball, Clara, ed. Loveland-Big Thompson Valley 1877-1977 Centennial, 1975. Camp, Charles L., ed. “James Clyman Frontiersman. Portland: Champoeg Press, 1960. Gates, Zethyl, “Mariano Medina Colorado Mountain Man” Johnson Publishing Co., 1981 Hafen, LeRoy R., ed. “George A. Jackson’s Diary, 1858-1859.” Colorado Magazine 12 (November 1935): 201-214. Hengesbaugh, Jeff & Housler, Wes, “Dress and Equipage of the Mountain Man 1820-1840” Rocky Mountain College Productions, 1997. Kephart, Bruce, “Hawken Rifle” Saturday Evening Post, 21 February 1920, p.65. Ruxton, George Frederick August, “Life in the Far West” Oklahoma Press, 1951. This gives you a longer story than planned Hawk Later Buck Conner Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 24 Apr 1999 11:00:36 -0600 Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Buck - You misunderstood about the military. We were talking about the = fashions of the times, not military cause nobody pays any attention to the = military cause they were always slow to catch up. Button fly front pants were popular up to about 1750 wehen the fashion = changed to drop fronts. Drop fronts remained the fashion until about 1841 = when they changed to button front fly pants. Some of the older gentlemen = did not change to the new fashions and kept wearing what they were used to = for many years afterward, but the fashion of the times changed to button = front in 1840. Of course the Amish, Mennonites or Quakers didn't bother = to change just because the fashions did. Beth Gilgun-Tidings of the 18th Century Herbert Norris - Nineteenth Century Costume and fashion Iris Brooke - English Costume of the Nineteenth Century Hope we aren't talking oranges and apples here, Buck. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants buck.conner wrote: >Don, > >The next issue of T&LR will have a documented pair of drop front breeches = >that are believed to have belonged to Marino Medina that were = commerically made in = >the 1850's to 1860's, manufactured in Calif. and were very popular = according to = >Charles E. Hanson, Jr. They were made of a fine leather, brass stud style = buttons = >sewed on - mostly machine sewed with fine hand work on the waist band. Cha= rley = >had a jacket that was a match to these breeches, Mrs. E. Gates that wrote = the book = >on Medina also had a pair of these breeches that had belong to a = gentleman from = >Loveland around the same period. She had a picture of Louie Papa wearing = the pair = >I have around the turn of the century in a parade in Ft. Collins CO. > >We'renot talking military Don, the reference is to the drop front pants = >that the Amish and several other "sexes" or "clans" of common people have = been = >wearing for decades and still wear today. I know what you mean by the = military fashion = >as a general rule of thumb, but like Medina's and others it doesn't alway = quite fit. > >Take a look at the book I referred to and that whole section on pants. > >Buck > >>On Fri, 23 April 1999, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: >> = >> Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants >> Buck - I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you gentlemen on = >the drop front trousers. From everything I have read, drop front = trousers = >switched to button front flys starting about 1841. After that time, the = only drop front = >pants worn were by the military(always a day late & dollar short). My wif= e and = >I do quite a bit of research on clothing, have several books on clothing, = but = >certainly don't know it all. This is just what we have found. Don Keas >> = >> = >> buck.conner wrote: >> >Hello Camp, >> > >> >Turtle, sounds like this lady hit a nerve about Amish being around a = >short time. >> > >> >I'm doing some research on "Folk Medicine" for the next catalog and = the = >>Amish, and Mennonites (both spin-offs of the PA Dutch or sometimes = called PA = >>Germans)keep popping up with "cures" that date back well into the 1760's.= Not sure = >when >the groups went different ways, but seems to be in the early 1800's,= that = >some >members were unhappy with some teachings and set up their own = churches, = >schools and >settlements in NY, PA, OH and points west. >> > >> >One of the authors that writes about early life in the Amish = settlements = >is >John Hostetler, well know prof from Temple Univ., is he related - = knowing = >that's >your mother's maiden name ! >> > >> >When I saw the posting about the Amish drop fall pants, "I thought you = >>would make note of it, say not". >> > >> >I looked in Lehman's (Amish) catalog for information on clothing - = >nothing, >next figured probably the best place would be "Rural = Pennsylvania Clothing" = >by >Ellen J. Gehret. On page 133 he shows breeches very similar to Marino = >Medina's >with a small drop fall front and draw string adjustable panel = in the back. = >Another >pair on page 148 of a different material and wider drop front = are still = >early >styles. Now on page 150 you see a pair like mentioned in this = posting, Gehert = >says >they are of the 19th century - doesn't say early or late. >> > >> >I would wager that they are after the Civil War, as most of the stuff = in = >>the location of these pants,(Chester County Historical Society) is 1850'= s and = >>later. The reason I say that is I knew several families that gave large = amounts = >of >household goods, clothing, etc. to this association back in the 1950'= s, when I = >was >still living in Chester County, PA. They had Civil War related items = and = >later, >Valley Forge under the care of Vernon Bigsby had all the pre Rev. = War to = >the 1840's >stuff sewed up in that museum.. >> > >> >Like you stated these are a little late for the fur trade, sorry to = make = >>this so long, wanted to let this gentleam know we have done some = research on = >these >pants. >> > >> >Buck Conner >> >dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile >> >__________________________ >> >>On Fri, 23 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: >> >> >> In reply to your question on the Amish work pants sold by several = >shops >around the country. >> >> >> >On Wed, 21 April 1999, Laurel huber wrote: >> >> >I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for = >>everyday >knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet >= buttons. >> >> >> These pants are suited for Civil War and later into the westered = >>movement, to late for fur trade. In Hanson's sketch books you'll see = drop fronts, = >but >they have a narrow drop, Buck Conner has an original pair of breeches= that = >belonged >to Marino Medina that are drop front and Hanson figured they = were late = >1840's to >1860's - narrow drop front. >> >> >> >Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur = Trade >> >> >re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I = have >> >> >seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad = >>>Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the = >>1850s,Riverboat >period. >> >> >> I am Amish and my relations came here in the mid 1700's to work = as = >>farmers to supply the demands of Phila. and other cities on the east = coast. We = >can date >our relations back over 300 years, so I don't understand what = you are = >saying. If >working and supplying a demand is not active then what is ! = Turtle. >> >> >> >The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being = >>active. >Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have >= been as = >common. >Anyone else on the list have documentation on the >wide spread = appearance of = >the >Broad Fall style? >> >> > >> > >> >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.= net >> > >> > >> > >> >RFC822 header >> >----------------------------------- >> > >> > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com = >with ESMTP >> > (SMTPD32-5.01) id AE6D13E0074; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:17 -0600 >> > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) >> > id 10arFh-0005rC-00 >> > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:05 -= 0600 >> > Received: from [209.228.14.84] (helo=3Dc000.sfo.cp.net) >> > by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) >> > id 10arFe-0005ql-00 >> > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:02 -0600 >> > Received: (cpmta 22316 invoked from network); 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 -= 0700 >> > Date: 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 -0700 >> > Message-ID: <19990424012901.22315.cpmta@c000.sfo.cp.net> >> > X-Sent: 24 Apr 1999 01:29:01 GMT >> > Received: from [12.74.73.74] by mail.uswestmail.net with HTTP; >> > 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 PDT >> > Content-Type: text/plain >> > Content-Disposition: inline >> > Mime-Version: 1.0 >> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> > From: >> > X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.0 >> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants >> > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> > Precedence: bulk >> > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> > X-RCPT-TO: >> > X-UIDL: 953 >> > Status: U >> > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with = ESMTP > (SMTPD32-5.01) id A570250004C; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:21:52 -0600 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10b2NM-0003m8-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:21:44 -0600 > Received: from [209.228.14.62] (helo=3Dc000.sfo.cp.net) > by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10b2NK-0003m3-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:21:42 -0600 > Received: (cpmta 2731 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 06:21:41 -0700 > Date: 24 Apr 1999 06:21:41 -0700 > Message-ID: <19990424132141.2730.cpmta@c000.sfo.cp.net> > X-Sent: 24 Apr 1999 13:21:41 GMT > Received: from [12.74.72.71] by mail.uswestmail.net with HTTP; > 24 Apr 1999 06:21:41 PDT > Content-Type: text/plain > Content-Disposition: inline > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > From: > X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.0 > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > X-RCPT-TO: > X-UIDL: 961 > Status: U > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 24 Apr 1999 10:41:12 -0700 I understood what you said and agree about the fashion changes, but wasn't the original question - would the twill Amish pants fit the fur trade ! Would you agree that the early narrow drop fronts fit the early to mid fur trade, as you mentioned some didn't change. The wider drop front (like the Amish) would be more at the end of the fur trade and not much after the being of the Civil War as far as fashion went, and may have been worn if fashion wasn't a consideration or that's all you got to wear. What do you think. Buck Did you get my e-mail that the woodswalk was cancelled for Sunday. >On Sat, 24 April 1999, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > Buck - You misunderstood about the military. We were talking about the fashions of the times, not military cause nobody pays any attention to the military cause they were always slow to catch up. > Button fly front pants were popular up to about 1750 wehen the fashion changed to drop fronts. Drop fronts remained the fashion until about 1841 when they changed to button front fly pants. Some of the older gentlemen did not change to the new fashions and kept wearing what they were used to for many years afterward, but the fashion of the times changed to button front in 1840. Of course the Amish, Mennonites or Quakers didn't bother to change just because the fashions did. > > Beth Gilgun-Tidings of the 18th Century > Herbert Norris - Nineteenth Century Costume and fashion > Iris Brooke - English Costume of the Nineteenth Century > > Hope we aren't talking oranges and apples here, Buck. > DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants > > buck.conner wrote: > >Don, > > > >The next issue of T&LR will have a documented pair of drop front breeches >that are believed to have belonged to Marino Medina that were commerically made in >the 1850's to 1860's, manufactured in Calif. and were very popular according to >Charles E. Hanson, Jr. They were made of a fine leather, brass stud style buttons >sewed on - mostly machine sewed with fine hand work on the waist band. Charley >had a jacket that was a match to these breeches, Mrs. E. Gates that wrote the book >on Medina also had a pair of these breeches that had belong to a gentleman from >Loveland around the same period. She had a picture of Louie Papa wearing the pair >I have around the turn of the century in a parade in Ft. Collins CO. > > > >We'renot talking military Don, the reference is to the drop front pants >that the Amish and several other "sexes" or "clans" of common people have been >wearing for decades and still wear today. I know what you mean by the military fashion >as a general rule of thumb, but like Medina's and others it doesn't alway quite fit. > > > >Take a look at the book I referred to and that whole section on pants. > > > >Buck > > > >>On Fri, 23 April 1999, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > >> >> Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > >> Buck - I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you gentlemen on >the drop front trousers. From everything I have read, drop front trousers >switched to button front flys starting about 1841. After that time, the only drop front >pants worn were by the military(always a day late & dollar short). My wife and >I do quite a bit of research on clothing, have several books on clothing, but >certainly don't know it all. This is just what we have found. Don Keas > >> >> >> buck.conner wrote: > >> >Hello Camp, > >> > > >> >Turtle, sounds like this lady hit a nerve about Amish being around a >short time. > >> > > >> >I'm doing some research on "Folk Medicine" for the next catalog and the >>Amish, and Mennonites (both spin-offs of the PA Dutch or sometimes called PA >>Germans)keep popping up with "cures" that date back well into the 1760's. Not sure >when >the groups went different ways, but seems to be in the early 1800's, that >some >members were unhappy with some teachings and set up their own churches, >schools and >settlements in NY, PA, OH and points west. > >> > > >> >One of the authors that writes about early life in the Amish settlements >is >John Hostetler, well know prof from Temple Univ., is he related - knowing >that's >your mother's maiden name ! > >> > > >> >When I saw the posting about the Amish drop fall pants, "I thought you >>would make note of it, say not". > >> > > >> >I looked in Lehman's (Amish) catalog for information on clothing - >nothing, >next figured probably the best place would be "Rural Pennsylvania Clothing" >by >Ellen J. Gehret. On page 133 he shows breeches very similar to Marino >Medina's >with a small drop fall front and draw string adjustable panel in the back. >Another >pair on page 148 of a different material and wider drop front are still >early >styles. Now on page 150 you see a pair like mentioned in this posting, Gehert >says >they are of the 19th century - doesn't say early or late. > >> > > >> >I would wager that they are after the Civil War, as most of the stuff in >>the location of these pants,(Chester County Historical Society) is 1850's and >>later. The reason I say that is I knew several families that gave large amounts >of >household goods, clothing, etc. to this association back in the 1950's, when I >was >still living in Chester County, PA. They had Civil War related items and >later, >Valley Forge under the care of Vernon Bigsby had all the pre Rev. War to >the 1840's >stuff sewed up in that museum.. > >> > > >> >Like you stated these are a little late for the fur trade, sorry to make >>this so long, wanted to let this gentleam know we have done some research on >these >pants. > >> > > >> >Buck Conner > >> >dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile > >> >__________________________ > >> >>On Fri, 23 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > >> >> >> In reply to your question on the Amish work pants sold by several >shops >around the country. > >> >> >> >On Wed, 21 April 1999, Laurel huber wrote: > >> >> >I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for >>everyday >knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet >buttons. > >> >> >> These pants are suited for Civil War and later into the westered >>movement, to late for fur trade. In Hanson's sketch books you'll see drop fronts, >but >they have a narrow drop, Buck Conner has an original pair of breeches that >belonged >to Marino Medina that are drop front and Hanson figured they were late >1840's to >1860's - narrow drop front. > >> >> >> >Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade > >> >> >re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have > >> >> >seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad >>>Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the >>1850s,Riverboat >period. > >> >> >> I am Amish and my relations came here in the mid 1700's to work as >>farmers to supply the demands of Phila. and other cities on the east coast. We >can date >our relations back over 300 years, so I don't understand what you are >saying. If >working and supplying a demand is not active then what is ! Turtle. > >> >> >> >The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being >>active. >Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have >been as >common. >Anyone else on the list have documentation on the >wide spread appearance of >the >Broad Fall style? > >> >> > > >> > > >> >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >RFC822 header > >> >----------------------------------- > >> > > >> > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com >with ESMTP > >> > (SMTPD32-5.01) id AE6D13E0074; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:17 -0600 > >> > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > >> > id 10arFh-0005rC-00 > >> > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:05 -0600 > >> > Received: from [209.228.14.84] (helo=c000.sfo.cp.net) > >> > by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > >> > id 10arFe-0005ql-00 > >> > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:02 -0600 > >> > Received: (cpmta 22316 invoked from network); 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 -0700 > >> > Date: 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 -0700 > >> > Message-ID: <19990424012901.22315.cpmta@c000.sfo.cp.net> > >> > X-Sent: 24 Apr 1999 01:29:01 GMT > >> > Received: from [12.74.73.74] by mail.uswestmail.net with HTTP; > >> > 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 PDT > >> > Content-Type: text/plain > >> > Content-Disposition: inline > >> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > >> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >> > From: > >> > X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.0 > >> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > >> > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >> > Precedence: bulk > >> > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >> > X-RCPT-TO: > >> > X-UIDL: 953 > >> > Status: U > >> > > > > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > > > > > >RFC822 header > >----------------------------------- > > > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with ESMTP > > (SMTPD32-5.01) id A570250004C; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:21:52 -0600 > > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > > id 10b2NM-0003m8-00 > > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:21:44 -0600 > > Received: from [209.228.14.62] (helo=c000.sfo.cp.net) > > by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > > id 10b2NK-0003m3-00 > > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:21:42 -0600 > > Received: (cpmta 2731 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 06:21:41 -0700 > > Date: 24 Apr 1999 06:21:41 -0700 > > Message-ID: <19990424132141.2730.cpmta@c000.sfo.cp.net> > > X-Sent: 24 Apr 1999 13:21:41 GMT > > Received: from [12.74.72.71] by mail.uswestmail.net with HTTP; > > 24 Apr 1999 06:21:41 PDT > > Content-Type: text/plain > > Content-Disposition: inline > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > From: > > X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.0 > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > Precedence: bulk > > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > X-RCPT-TO: > > X-UIDL: 961 > > Status: U > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 24 Apr 1999 17:21:40 -0700 Boys, I have found several mistakes with one of the author's in Don's reference sources, seems this person copies others works and sometimes looses the translation of the work, thus not being clear and misleading the reader. I'm more to believe someone that's known for his correctness in reporting what has happened like Hanson, or the reference Buck gave to the PA clothing book that Shumway published, another known for his correctness in what he prints and usually found to be as correct as possible. Nothing wrong with the research boys, but sometimes we have to look at the reference/author's track record. Several of the our writer's for some of the period magazine are starting to see problems with being mislead in their research, talked to a gentlemen (won't mention his name) he told several of us that he has had to eat crow several times in the last year or two, because of poor research that someone passed on to him and he used it, thus getting hammered for putting out wrong information. I'm glad to see that both Don and Buck use more than one resource and then make their own minds up, and aren't swayed with just one person's idea. Keep up the good research and thanks for sharing. Turtle. > On Sat, 24 April 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote: > > I understood what you said and agree about the fashion changes, but wasn't the original question - would the twill Amish pants fit the fur trade ! > > Would you agree that the early narrow drop fronts fit the early to mid fur trade, as you mentioned some didn't change. The wider drop front (like the Amish) would be more at the end of the fur trade and not much after the being of the Civil War as far as fashion went, and may have been worn if fashion wasn't a consideration or that's all you got to wear. > > What do you think. > > Buck > > Did you get my e-mail that the woodswalk was cancelled for Sunday. > > >On Sat, 24 April 1999, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > > Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > > Buck - You misunderstood about the military. We were talking about the fashions of the times, not military cause nobody pays any attention to the military cause they were always slow to catch up. > > Button fly front pants were popular up to about 1750 wehen the fashion changed to drop fronts. Drop fronts remained the fashion until about 1841 when they changed to button front fly pants. Some of the older gentlemen did not change to the new fashions and kept wearing what they were used to for many years afterward, but the fashion of the times changed to button front in 1840. Of course the Amish, Mennonites or Quakers didn't bother to change just because the fashions did. > > > > Beth Gilgun-Tidings of the 18th Century > > Herbert Norris - Nineteenth Century Costume and fashion > > Iris Brooke - English Costume of the Nineteenth Century > > > > Hope we aren't talking oranges and apples here, Buck. > > DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants > > > > buck.conner wrote: > > >Don, > > > > > >The next issue of T&LR will have a documented pair of drop front breeches >that are believed to have belonged to Marino Medina that were commerically made in >the 1850's to 1860's, manufactured in Calif. and were very popular according to >Charles E. Hanson, Jr. They were made of a fine leather, brass stud style buttons >sewed on - mostly machine sewed with fine hand work on the waist band. Charley >had a jacket that was a match to these breeches, Mrs. E. Gates that wrote the book >on Medina also had a pair of these breeches that had belong to a gentleman from >Loveland around the same period. She had a picture of Louie Papa wearing the pair >I have around the turn of the century in a parade in Ft. Collins CO. > > > > > >We'renot talking military Don, the reference is to the drop front pants >that the Amish and several other "sexes" or "clans" of common people have been >wearing for decades and still wear today. I know what you mean by the military fashion >as a general rule of thumb, but like Medina's and others it doesn't alway quite fit. > > > > > >Take a look at the book I referred to and that whole section on pants. > > > > > >Buck > > > > > >>On Fri, 23 April 1999, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > > >> >> Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > > >> Buck - I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you gentlemen on >the drop front trousers. From everything I have read, drop front trousers >switched to button front flys starting about 1841. After that time, the only drop front >pants worn were by the military(always a day late & dollar short). My wife and >I do quite a bit of research on clothing, have several books on clothing, but >certainly don't know it all. This is just what we have found. Don Keas > > >> >> >> buck.conner wrote: > > >> >Hello Camp, > > >> > > > >> >Turtle, sounds like this lady hit a nerve about Amish being around a >short time. > > >> > > > >> >I'm doing some research on "Folk Medicine" for the next catalog and the >>Amish, and Mennonites (both spin-offs of the PA Dutch or sometimes called PA >>Germans)keep popping up with "cures" that date back well into the 1760's. Not sure >when >the groups went different ways, but seems to be in the early 1800's, that >some >members were unhappy with some teachings and set up their own churches, >schools and >settlements in NY, PA, OH and points west. > > >> > > > >> >One of the authors that writes about early life in the Amish settlements >is >John Hostetler, well know prof from Temple Univ., is he related - knowing >that's >your mother's maiden name ! > > >> > > > >> >When I saw the posting about the Amish drop fall pants, "I thought you >>would make note of it, say not". > > >> > > > >> >I looked in Lehman's (Amish) catalog for information on clothing - >nothing, >next figured probably the best place would be "Rural Pennsylvania Clothing" >by >Ellen J. Gehret. On page 133 he shows breeches very similar to Marino >Medina's >with a small drop fall front and draw string adjustable panel in the back. >Another >pair on page 148 of a different material and wider drop front are still >early >styles. Now on page 150 you see a pair like mentioned in this posting, Gehert >says >they are of the 19th century - doesn't say early or late. > > >> > > > >> >I would wager that they are after the Civil War, as most of the stuff in >>the location of these pants,(Chester County Historical Society) is 1850's and >>later. The reason I say that is I knew several families that gave large amounts >of >household goods, clothing, etc. to this association back in the 1950's, when I >was >still living in Chester County, PA. They had Civil War related items and >later, >Valley Forge under the care of Vernon Bigsby had all the pre Rev. War to >the 1840's >stuff sewed up in that museum.. > > >> > > > >> >Like you stated these are a little late for the fur trade, sorry to make >>this so long, wanted to let this gentleam know we have done some research on >these >pants. > > >> > > > >> >Buck Conner > > >> >dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile > > >> >__________________________ > > >> >>On Fri, 23 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > > >> >> >> In reply to your question on the Amish work pants sold by several >shops >around the country. > > >> >> >> >On Wed, 21 April 1999, Laurel huber wrote: > > >> >> >I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for >>everyday >knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet >buttons. > > >> >> >> These pants are suited for Civil War and later into the westered >>movement, to late for fur trade. In Hanson's sketch books you'll see drop fronts, >but >they have a narrow drop, Buck Conner has an original pair of breeches that >belonged >to Marino Medina that are drop front and Hanson figured they were late >1840's to >1860's - narrow drop front. > > >> >> >> >Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade > > >> >> >re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have > > >> >> >seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad >>>Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the >>1850s,Riverboat >period. > > >> >> >> I am Amish and my relations came here in the mid 1700's to work as >>farmers to supply the demands of Phila. and other cities on the east coast. We >can date >our relations back over 300 years, so I don't understand what you are >saying. If >working and supplying a demand is not active then what is ! Turtle. > > >> >> >> >The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being >>active. >Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have >been as >common. >Anyone else on the list have documentation on the >wide spread appearance of >the >Broad Fall style? > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >RFC822 header > > >> >----------------------------------- > > >> > > > >> > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com >with ESMTP > > >> > (SMTPD32-5.01) id AE6D13E0074; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:17 -0600 > > >> > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > > >> > id 10arFh-0005rC-00 > > >> > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:05 -0600 > > >> > Received: from [209.228.14.84] (helo=c000.sfo.cp.net) > > >> > by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > > >> > id 10arFe-0005ql-00 > > >> > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:29:02 -0600 > > >> > Received: (cpmta 22316 invoked from network); 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 -0700 > > >> > Date: 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 -0700 > > >> > Message-ID: <19990424012901.22315.cpmta@c000.sfo.cp.net> > > >> > X-Sent: 24 Apr 1999 01:29:01 GMT > > >> > Received: from [12.74.73.74] by mail.uswestmail.net with HTTP; > > >> > 23 Apr 1999 18:29:01 PDT > > >> > Content-Type: text/plain > > >> > Content-Disposition: inline > > >> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > >> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > >> > From: > > >> > X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.0 > > >> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > > >> > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > >> > Precedence: bulk > > >> > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > >> > X-RCPT-TO: > > >> > X-UIDL: 953 > > >> > Status: U > > >> > > > > > > > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > > > > > > > > > >RFC822 header > > >----------------------------------- > > > > > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with ESMTP > > > (SMTPD32-5.01) id A570250004C; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:21:52 -0600 > > > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > > > id 10b2NM-0003m8-00 > > > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:21:44 -0600 > > > Received: from [209.228.14.62] (helo=c000.sfo.cp.net) > > > by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > > > id 10b2NK-0003m3-00 > > > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:21:42 -0600 > > > Received: (cpmta 2731 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 06:21:41 -0700 > > > Date: 24 Apr 1999 06:21:41 -0700 > > > Message-ID: <19990424132141.2730.cpmta@c000.sfo.cp.net> > > > X-Sent: 24 Apr 1999 13:21:41 GMT > > > Received: from [12.74.72.71] by mail.uswestmail.net with HTTP; > > > 24 Apr 1999 06:21:41 PDT > > > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Content-Disposition: inline > > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > > From: > > > X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.0 > > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > > > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > > Precedence: bulk > > > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > > X-RCPT-TO: > > > X-UIDL: 961 > > > Status: U > > > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Re: in our Prayers (OFF TOPIC) Date: 24 Apr 1999 17:28:58 -0700 On Sat, 24 April 1999, kestrel@ticon.net wrote: > > > My name is Jayson Martin from Littleton, Colorado, I would like for > anyone > who reads this to please write their name down. I would like to send > prayers out > to my friends who were in Columbine H.S. I would like everyone to please > say a > prayer for the safety of everyone who was involved in this terrible > tragedy. It > is something that has hurt me today as well as my friends, I'm grateful > for my > safety and their safety. Please Forward this to as many people as you > can, let > us all come together and pray that this tragedy ends soon. > > Thank you. > > > ***Copy this letter, add your name and forward it to as many people > as you know. Thank you. > > 1. Jayson L. Martin Littleton, Colorado > 2. Michelle R. Evans Aurora, Colorado - I also had friends in there > 3. Mary Goddard Denver , Colorado > 4. Mike Stratis Denver, Colorado > 5. Bill Hankammer, Colorado Springs CO. > 6. Becky Jo Hersh, Aurora, CO > 7. Katie D. Co,spgs, CO > 8. Ryan S. Monument, CO > 9. Rey Sandoval. Denver, CO > 10. Mike Mcpherren. West Des Moines, Iowa. > 11. Megan Richards Des Moines Iowa > 12. Mary Beth Zieglowsky, Iowa City, IA > 13. Julie Crow, Tipton, IA > 14. Mary Jo Piper, Coralville, IA > 15. Becky Flanegan, Wellman, IA > 16. Kay Scheetz, Coralville, IA > 17. Peggy Timm, Tipton, IA > 18. Tony Timm, Des Moines, IA > 19. Clark Ullerich, Davenport, IA > 20. Sandy Johnson, Denison, IA > 21. Lyle Breaux, Marrero, LA > 22. Sandi Rohrs, Wheeling, IL > 23. Melissa Thommesen, Janesville, WI > 24. Tiffany Powers, Janesville, WI > 25. Jeff Powers, Janesville, WI > 26. Lee Boyer, State College, PA > 27. Buck Conner, Lakewood, CO > 28. > 29. > 30. > 31. > 32. > > Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kestrel@ticon.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: in our Prayers (OFF TOPIC) Date: 24 Apr 1999 21:51:31 -0500 Knowing Buck was closest to this of all I know on and off the net I forwarded this only to Buck. It's pleasing to see it forwarded to the list (and I probably should have sent this to the list). Anyway folks,Billy Graham has gone on record (on the net,sorry I don't have his web page handy) stating that this is not a problem that stiffer gun control laws will fix! Thanks Buck for sending this to the list. One other thing,does anyone have a contact for the kids(in Littleton)that are making the blue and silver ribbons? I want to send them some money for supplies and get a few ribbons for myself. Thanks,Jeff Powers I KNOW the future......GOD WINS! On 1999-04-24 hist_text@lists.xmission.com said to kestrel@ticon.net >X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.0 >On Sat, 24 April 1999, kestrel@ticon.net wrote: >> My name is Jayson Martin from Littleton, Colorado, I would like >>for anyone >> who reads this to please write their name down. I would like to >>send prayers out >> to my friends who were in Columbine H.S. I would like everyone to >>please say a >> prayer for the safety of everyone who was involved in this >>terrible tragedy. It >> is something that has hurt me today as well as my friends, I'm >>grateful for my >> safety and their safety. Please Forward this to as many people as >>you can, let >> us all come together and pray that this tragedy ends soon. >> Thank you. >> ***Copy this letter, add your name and forward it to as many >>people as you know. Thank you. >> 1. Jayson L. Martin Littleton, Colorado >> 2. Michelle R. Evans Aurora, Colorado - I also had friends >>in there 3. Mary Goddard Denver , Colorado >> 4. Mike Stratis Denver, Colorado >> 5. Bill Hankammer, Colorado Springs CO. >> 6. Becky Jo Hersh, Aurora, CO >> 7. Katie D. Co,spgs, CO >> 8. Ryan S. Monument, CO >> 9. Rey Sandoval. Denver, CO >> 10. Mike Mcpherren. West Des Moines, Iowa. >> 11. Megan Richards Des Moines Iowa >> 12. Mary Beth Zieglowsky, Iowa City, IA >> 13. Julie Crow, Tipton, IA >> 14. Mary Jo Piper, Coralville, IA >> 15. Becky Flanegan, Wellman, IA >> 16. Kay Scheetz, Coralville, IA >> 17. Peggy Timm, Tipton, IA >> 18. Tony Timm, Des Moines, IA >> 19. Clark Ullerich, Davenport, IA >> 20. Sandy Johnson, Denison, IA >> 21. Lyle Breaux, Marrero, LA >> 22. Sandi Rohrs, Wheeling, IL >> 23. Melissa Thommesen, Janesville, WI >> 24. Tiffany Powers, Janesville, WI >> 25. Jeff Powers, Janesville, WI >> 26. Lee Boyer, State College, PA >> 27. Buck Conner, Lakewood, CO >> 28. >> 29. >> 30. >> 31. >> 32. >> Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www. >uswestmail.net Proud to be a Jesus Freak :-) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JOHNNY RUTLEDGE" Subject: MtMan-List: JACKIE BROWN Date: 25 Apr 1999 07:58:32 -0500 I have lost Jackie Browns home page. Can some one please tell me the address. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Fwd: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 25 Apr 1999 07:59:46 -0700 ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Hawk, One big factor is that Mrs. Gates had a picture of Louie Papa (Medina's step-son) sitting on his white horse around the turn of the century at the grave of his step sister (Lena) on my father-in-laws property, according to the Loveland newspaper he spent many hours in the area that his step-father had hunted and visited. Some of the old timers said the family would come up after Marino passed on and spend weekends getting away from the heat in town. This is only 6 miles into the foothills from Medina Flats, the pants were probably left by accident on one of these outtings according to Mrs. Gates, an educated guess as she put it. Buck > On Sun, 25 April 1999, michael pierce wrote: > > good data still wonder how you establish that the paints were > madenia's---got to have a good thread to link it all to and to > positatively establish ownership---not just a supisition---Your story is > similar to me and dan anderson finfing a spanish gold mine lost since > 1622---we have that one documented--- > > > "HAWK" > Michael pierce > 854 Glenfield Dr. > Palm Harbor Florida 34684 > E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 __________________ > >She showed me a late picture of Marino wearing breeches like the ones > >I have found another picture of Louie Papa (Medina's step-son) > >wearing the same breeches, taken in a parade in Loveland after the > >turn of the century. Interesting, but questionable as to whether they > >were his or > >someone else's and how did the trousers get on this hill? ____________________________________________________________ > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------- End of forwarded message ------- Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron Chamberlain" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: JACKIE BROWN Date: 25 Apr 1999 10:26:52 -0600 >I have lost Jackie Browns home page. Can some one please tell me the >address. http://www.moad.com/jbrown/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 25 Apr 1999 10:07:54 -0700 Mike, I remember Mrs. Gates saying she was sure those pants belonged to the Medina family and she had looked at hundreds of newspaper pictures for ones like them in the Ft. Collins and Loveland area, and as far as she knew they were the only pair around. Hanson told Ray Turner (AMM member) that he felt about 98% in favor of these belonging to MM, and being on private property with no public access, no one else was allow on the property other than the Medinas to visit the grave of a family member. He also told me that Medina being a fancy type of man and with his wealth at the time may have even had several pairs of these pants and jackets that matched, but that was just a guess ! Interesting to thing about and like someone said, some of these old boys hung on to the old styles, even if not in fashion. Turtle. > On Sun, 25 April 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote: > > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > To: hawknest4@juno.com > From: > Date: 25 Apr 1999 07:57:37 PDT > > Hawk, > > One big factor is that Mrs. Gates had a picture of Louie Papa (Medina's step-son) sitting on his white horse around the turn of the century at the grave of his step sister (Lena) on my father-in-laws property, according to the Loveland newspaper he spent many hours in the area that his step-father had hunted and visited. > > Some of the old timers said the family would come up after Marino passed on and spend weekends getting away from the heat in town. This is only 6 miles into the foothills from Medina Flats, the pants were probably left by accident on one of these outtings according to Mrs. Gates, an educated guess as she put it. > > Buck > > > On Sun, 25 April 1999, michael pierce wrote: > > > > good data still wonder how you establish that the paints were > > madenia's---got to have a good thread to link it all to and to > > positatively establish ownership---not just a supisition---Your story is > > similar to me and dan anderson finfing a spanish gold mine lost since > > 1622---we have that one documented--- > > > > > > "HAWK" > > Michael pierce > > 854 Glenfield Dr. > > Palm Harbor Florida 34684 > > E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 > __________________ > > >She showed me a late picture of Marino wearing breeches like the ones > > >I have found another picture of Louie Papa (Medina's step-son) > > >wearing the same breeches, taken in a parade in Loveland after the > > >turn of the century. Interesting, but questionable as to whether they > > >were his or > > >someone else's and how did the trousers get on this hill? > ____________________________________________________________ > > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants (off topic) Date: 25 Apr 1999 10:17:18 -0700 Lee, Wasn't that at the 100th year annv. of Medina's death, down at the Park the deciated to him - west of town, I remember her saying something about some pants. Are they the leather breeches that hung in the muzzleloading store at Masonville, Colorado, if so I saw a guy try and buy them and was told they were promised to the Museum of the Fur Trade. Brother that's been 10-12 years ago, they had some interesting doc. items in that place, where did all that stuff go ? Powder Hawk Iowa > On Sun, 25 April 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > > Mike, > I remember Mrs. Gates saying she was sure those pants belonged to the Medina family and she had looked at hundreds of newspaper pictures for ones like them in the Ft. Collins and Loveland area, and as far as she knew they were the only pair around. > Hanson told Ray Turner (AMM member) that he felt about 98% in favor of these belonging to MM, and being on private property with no public access, no one else was allow on the property other than the Medinas to visit the grave of a family member. He also told me that Medina being a fancy type of man and with his wealth at the time may have even had several pairs of these pants and jackets that matched, but that was just a guess ! > Interesting to thing about and like someone said, some of these old boys hung on to the old styles, even if not in fashion. > Turtle. > > > On Sun, 25 April 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote: > > > > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > > > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants > > To: hawknest4@juno.com > > From: > > Date: 25 Apr 1999 07:57:37 PDT > > > > Hawk, > > > > One big factor is that Mrs. Gates had a picture of Louie Papa (Medina's step-son) sitting on his white horse around the turn of the century at the grave of his step sister (Lena) on my father-in-laws property, according to the Loveland newspaper he spent many hours in the area that his step-father had hunted and visited. > > > > Some of the old timers said the family would come up after Marino passed on and spend weekends getting away from the heat in town. This is only 6 miles into the foothills from Medina Flats, the pants were probably left by accident on one of these outtings according to Mrs. Gates, an educated guess as she put it. > > > > Buck > > > > > On Sun, 25 April 1999, michael pierce wrote: > > > > > > good data still wonder how you establish that the paints were > > > madenia's---got to have a good thread to link it all to and to > > > positatively establish ownership---not just a supisition---Your story is > > > similar to me and dan anderson finfing a spanish gold mine lost since > > > 1622---we have that one documented--- > > > > > > > > > "HAWK" > > > Michael pierce > > > 854 Glenfield Dr. > > > Palm Harbor Florida 34684 > > > E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 > > __________________ > > > >She showed me a late picture of Marino wearing breeches like the ones > > > >I have found another picture of Louie Papa (Medina's step-son) > > > >wearing the same breeches, taken in a parade in Loveland after the > > > >turn of the century. Interesting, but questionable as to whether they > > > >were his or > > > >someone else's and how did the trousers get on this hill? > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > > > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 25 Apr 1999 10:34:54 -0700 Ladies, Gentlemen and members of this list, haven't we kicked the "twill pants" around long enought, probably are just about worn out by now. Lets get on to another subject to research and build our knowledge on. I'm worn out over twill drop fronts and air rifles, you wouldn't believe the amount of e-mail off list I have received on both subjects. Anybody got some time saving advice for cooking, recipes, camp setup, bugs in camp, things to do when its slow in camp, etc, etc. Thanks Buck Conner dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: MtMan-List: Period Drinking ! Date: 25 Apr 1999 12:50:25 -0700 Yeah ya'll are wearing me out on those britches. I wasn't gonna say anything but sense Buck brought it up let's change the subject. Does anyone have any reciepes for period drinks they would like to share ? Pendleton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John W. Stephens" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 25 Apr 1999 10:50:54 -0700 Head for the coolness of the bushes with the Mountain Lamb? buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote: > Anybody got some time saving advice for cooking, recipes, camp setup, bugs in camp, things to do when its slow in camp, etc, etc.n ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 25 Apr 1999 15:32:33 -0400 Well, Lanney and I discussed wrastlin' each other in camp..Or rather someone said they would pay money to watch it.....Might be entertaining. Beats watchin' grass grow. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 -----Original Message----- >Ladies, Gentlemen and members of this list, haven't we kicked the "twill pants" around long enought, probably are just about worn out by now. > >Lets get on to another subject to research and build our knowledge on. I'm worn out over twill drop fronts and air rifles, you wouldn't believe the amount of e-mail off list I have received on both subjects. > >Anybody got some time saving advice for cooking, recipes, camp setup, bugs in camp, things to do when its slow in camp, etc, etc. > >Thanks >Buck Conner >dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 25 Apr 1999 12:35:17 -0700 Buck, I learned a good supper from my Missouri friends while we were on a canoe trip. I use it alot now for an easy, filling meal. Potato soup; includes potatos, cheese and salt & pepper. Cut a potato in half, start shaving ultra thin slices of potato into the pot, gradually making thicker slices. Then start dicing potato small, gradually making bigger chunks. Add water, and start cooking, stirring often. As the potato cooks the thin stuff will turn into broth, the thicker stuff will just cook. when done slice cheese on top and stir in as it's melting and as you're eating. Season to taste. I find this good, filling and plenty of carbohydrates for the physical demands of a trek. Try it, you'll like. ps I carry the cheese that is sealed in wax, this will last without refridgeration. pps, any one have good sources for smoked bacon, sausage, etc... those that don't need refridgeration....Hardtack ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William S. Jones" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: in our Prayers (OFF TOPIC)-The Article by Billy Graham Date: 25 Apr 1999 17:34:40 -0500 Here's the article: April 22 PrayerAlert--Littleton, CO--"When I heard about the tragedy near Denver, I was shocked, and in my heart I wept for the students, the teachers, and the parents and relatives of those who had been hurt or killed. I immediately went to prayer, that God would comfort and strengthen them, and give us all some understanding of why this happened. Unfortunately, events like this have been happening far too often in America during the past few months." "I have been saddened and deeply moved by the television coverage as this situation has unfolded. I agree with those who have remarked that the problem is not guns--rather the hearts of people which need to be changed." "I would add that only God can change hearts. That is the reason Jesus said 'You must be born again.' Only God can give us a new nature that is demonstrated by love. He revealed His love for the whole human race by sending Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins." "At the same time, my heart and prayers also go out especially to the parents of those who committed this terrible crime. I am sure their hearts are breaking, and they need our compassion and understanding." As Dr. Graham stated above, guns are not the problem ... people's hearts are. As long as we collectively refuse to face our own mortality, and maintain the teen-age mentality that we're "bullet-proof", I reckon that The Almighty will remain "kicked out" of the schools, and the Ten Commandments will never appear on the wall of an American school, or a U.S. Court House as long as the Liberal mindset prevails. I thought of this verse of scripture as I was writing the above: 2 Chr 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Waffalo Hiveranno, AMM # 907 Past KY Bde. Booshway -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of kestrel@ticon.net Sent: Saturday, April 24, 1999 9:52 PM Cc: buck.conner@uswestmail.net Knowing Buck was closest to this of all I know on and off the net I forwarded this only to Buck. It's pleasing to see it forwarded to the list (and I probably should have sent this to the list). Anyway folks,Billy Graham has gone on record (on the net,sorry I don't have his web page handy) stating that this is not a problem that stiffer gun control laws will fix! Thanks Buck for sending this to the list. One other thing,does anyone have a contact for the kids(in Littleton)that are making the blue and silver ribbons? I want to send them some money for supplies and get a few ribbons for myself. Thanks,Jeff Powers I KNOW the future......GOD WINS! On 1999-04-24 hist_text@lists.xmission.com said to kestrel@ticon.net >X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.0 >On Sat, 24 April 1999, kestrel@ticon.net wrote: >> My name is Jayson Martin from Littleton, Colorado, I would like >>for anyone >> who reads this to please write their name down. I would like to >>send prayers out >> to my friends who were in Columbine H.S. I would like everyone to >>please say a >> prayer for the safety of everyone who was involved in this >>terrible tragedy. It >> is something that has hurt me today as well as my friends, I'm >>grateful for my >> safety and their safety. Please Forward this to as many people as >>you can, let >> us all come together and pray that this tragedy ends soon. >> Thank you. >> ***Copy this letter, add your name and forward it to as many >>people as you know. Thank you. >> 1. Jayson L. Martin Littleton, Colorado >> 2. Michelle R. Evans Aurora, Colorado - I also had friends >>in there 3. Mary Goddard Denver , Colorado >> 4. Mike Stratis Denver, Colorado >> 5. Bill Hankammer, Colorado Springs CO. >> 6. Becky Jo Hersh, Aurora, CO >> 7. Katie D. Co,spgs, CO >> 8. Ryan S. Monument, CO >> 9. Rey Sandoval. Denver, CO >> 10. Mike Mcpherren. West Des Moines, Iowa. >> 11. Megan Richards Des Moines Iowa >> 12. Mary Beth Zieglowsky, Iowa City, IA >> 13. Julie Crow, Tipton, IA >> 14. Mary Jo Piper, Coralville, IA >> 15. Becky Flanegan, Wellman, IA >> 16. Kay Scheetz, Coralville, IA >> 17. Peggy Timm, Tipton, IA >> 18. Tony Timm, Des Moines, IA >> 19. Clark Ullerich, Davenport, IA >> 20. Sandy Johnson, Denison, IA >> 21. Lyle Breaux, Marrero, LA >> 22. Sandi Rohrs, Wheeling, IL >> 23. Melissa Thommesen, Janesville, WI >> 24. Tiffany Powers, Janesville, WI >> 25. Jeff Powers, Janesville, WI >> 26. Lee Boyer, State College, PA >> 27. Buck Conner, Lakewood, CO >> 28. >> 29. >> 30. >> 31. >> 32. >> Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www. >uswestmail.net Proud to be a Jesus Freak :-) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: MtMan-List: Drink Date: 25 Apr 1999 18:56:37 -0400 I believe Mr Pendleton asked for a good drink reciept.. This is one I use allot.. Cheap Scot's Whiskey Water Steel cut oats (best) Regular oatmeal will work. Honey. Put oatmeal and water together, allow to set overnight. Run though a seive and press with a spoon until the oatmeal is as dry as possible.. Keep the creamy oat liquid. (eat the oats later) Mix with the Whiskey, add honey. Jug it... Damned good.. If it is Winter, you can add cream to this mixture.. Shake well afor swilling... Water to whiskey ratio is up to you as well as the amount of honey.... Later D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 25 Apr 1999 17:13:32 -0600 Buck Conner wrote: >>I read an article entitled "The Well-Dressed Explorer" by Jeff Gottfred of the NWBC located in Calgary, Canada; in the article he mentions David Thompson's leather trousers and long wool socks, along with Samuel Johnson's dictionary's remarks of trousers used in outposts and common wear on the frontier. << Thanks for the plug, Buck! This article can be found at Northwest Journal Online, www.telusplanet.net/public/gottfred/nwj.html. Just one small point of clarification: Johnson's dictionary is cited to point out that at this time (1806), the word 'trousers' could also mean breeches. But narrow-fall trousers were definitely common wear in the Canadian fur trade before 1821, and in Quebec also. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: RE: MtMan-List: in our Prayers (OFF TOPIC)-The Article by Billy Date: 25 Apr 1999 16:59:30 -0700 Just returned from the Memorial Services for these kids and their families, very hard to just be there, lots of crying, hugging and just people showing support. Lots of big names from the government as well as singers and other caring folks. The more information the police let out the more this appears to be something that could happen in anyone's school in any part of the free world, hard to believe that kids could get this much stuff together, what the hell were the people around them doing? I'm sure as the case goes on more details will shock us more. Most Safeway stores are taking donations and have the blue and silver ribbons, will try and get an address for those interested. Buck Conner Colorado Territory _______________________ > On Sun, 25 April 1999, "William S. Jones" wrote: > > Here's the article: > > April 22 PrayerAlert--Littleton, CO--"When I heard about the tragedy near > Denver, I was shocked, and in my heart I wept for the students, the > teachers, and the parents and relatives of those who had been hurt or > killed. I immediately went to prayer, that God would comfort and strengthen > them, and give us all some understanding of why this happened. > Unfortunately, events like this have been happening far too often in America > during the past few months." > > "I have been saddened and deeply moved by the television coverage as this > situation has unfolded. I agree with those who have remarked that the > problem is not guns--rather the hearts of people which need to be changed." > > "I would add that only God can change hearts. That is the reason Jesus said > 'You must be born again.' Only God can give us a new nature that is > demonstrated by love. He revealed His love for the whole human race by > sending Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins." > > "At the same time, my heart and prayers also go out especially to the > parents of those who committed this terrible crime. I am sure their hearts > are breaking, and they need our compassion and understanding." > > As Dr. Graham stated above, guns are not the problem ... people's hearts > are. As long as we collectively refuse to face our own mortality, and > maintain the teen-age mentality that we're "bullet-proof", I reckon that The > Almighty will remain "kicked out" of the schools, and the Ten Commandments > will never appear on the wall of an American school, or a U.S. Court House > as long as the Liberal mindset prevails. > > I thought of this verse of scripture as I was writing the above: > > 2 Chr 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble > themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; > then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal > their land. > > Waffalo > Hiveranno, AMM # 907 > Past KY Bde. Booshway > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of > kestrel@ticon.net > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 1999 9:52 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Cc: buck.conner@uswestmail.net > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: in our Prayers (OFF TOPIC) > > > Knowing Buck was closest to this of all I know on and off the net I > forwarded this only to Buck. It's pleasing to see it forwarded to the list > (and I probably should have sent this to the list). Anyway folks,Billy > Graham has gone on record (on the net,sorry I don't have his web page handy) > stating that this is not a problem that stiffer gun control laws will fix! > Thanks Buck for sending this to the list. > One other thing,does anyone have a contact for the kids(in Littleton)that > are making the blue and silver ribbons? I want to send them some money for > supplies and get a few ribbons for myself. > Thanks,Jeff Powers > > I KNOW the future......GOD WINS! > > On 1999-04-24 hist_text@lists.xmission.com said to kestrel@ticon.net > >X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.0 > >On Sat, 24 April 1999, kestrel@ticon.net wrote: > >> My name is Jayson Martin from Littleton, Colorado, I would like > >>for anyone > >> who reads this to please write their name down. I would like to > >>send prayers out > >> to my friends who were in Columbine H.S. I would like everyone to > >>please say a > >> prayer for the safety of everyone who was involved in this > >>terrible tragedy. It > >> is something that has hurt me today as well as my friends, I'm > >>grateful for my > >> safety and their safety. Please Forward this to as many people as > >>you can, let > >> us all come together and pray that this tragedy ends soon. > >> Thank you. > >> ***Copy this letter, add your name and forward it to as many > >>people as you know. Thank you. > >> 1. Jayson L. Martin Littleton, Colorado > >> 2. Michelle R. Evans Aurora, Colorado - I also had friends > >>in there 3. Mary Goddard Denver , Colorado > >> 4. Mike Stratis Denver, Colorado > >> 5. Bill Hankammer, Colorado Springs CO. > >> 6. Becky Jo Hersh, Aurora, CO > >> 7. Katie D. Co,spgs, CO > >> 8. Ryan S. Monument, CO > >> 9. Rey Sandoval. Denver, CO > >> 10. Mike Mcpherren. West Des Moines, Iowa. > >> 11. Megan Richards Des Moines Iowa > >> 12. Mary Beth Zieglowsky, Iowa City, IA > >> 13. Julie Crow, Tipton, IA > >> 14. Mary Jo Piper, Coralville, IA > >> 15. Becky Flanegan, Wellman, IA > >> 16. Kay Scheetz, Coralville, IA > >> 17. Peggy Timm, Tipton, IA > >> 18. Tony Timm, Des Moines, IA > >> 19. Clark Ullerich, Davenport, IA > >> 20. Sandy Johnson, Denison, IA > >> 21. Lyle Breaux, Marrero, LA > >> 22. Sandi Rohrs, Wheeling, IL > >> 23. Melissa Thommesen, Janesville, WI > >> 24. Tiffany Powers, Janesville, WI > >> 25. Jeff Powers, Janesville, WI > >> 26. Lee Boyer, State College, PA > >> 27. Buck Conner, Lakewood, CO > >> 28. > >> 29. > >> 30. > >> 31. > >> 32. > >> Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www. > >uswestmail.net > > Proud to be a Jesus Freak :-) > > Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: period recipes, drinks, camp life Date: 25 Apr 1999 17:10:01 -0700 Thanks bud, anyone got some good fast and easy receipes for period camping. Buck > On Sun, 25 April 1999, RANDAL J BUBLITZ wrote: > > Buck, I learned a good supper from my Missouri friends while we were on > a canoe trip. I use it alot now for an easy, filling meal. Potato soup; > includes potatos, cheese and salt & pepper. Cut a potato in half, start > shaving ultra thin slices of potato into the pot, gradually making > thicker slices. Then start dicing potato small, gradually making bigger > chunks. Add water, and start cooking, stirring often. As the potato > cooks the thin stuff will turn into broth, the thicker stuff will just > cook. when done slice cheese on top and stir in as it's melting and as > you're eating. Season to taste. I find this good, filling and plenty of > carbohydrates for the physical demands of a trek. Try it, you'll like. > ps I carry the cheese that is sealed in wax, this will last without > refridgeration. pps, any one have good sources for smoked bacon, > sausage, etc... those that don't need refridgeration....Hardtack Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Subject: Re: MtMan-List: period recipes, drinks, camp life Date: 25 Apr 1999 17:24:32 -0700 Yup, Got this a while back from Roy Parker and I quote... "One quart of rum, the juice from 3 oranges and 3 lemons, and the zest of the oranges and lemons. No pulp, and NONE of the white fiber under the zests! Let the elixer percolate overthe zests for 2-3 days, add a pint of water, and sugar to taste. Recipe came from a Virgina almanac back around 1750 via Jerry Young aka Yellowfoot." Don't drink no more myself so can't say how it taste. Medicine Bear <(((>< buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote: > Thanks bud, > > anyone got some good fast and easy receipes for period camping. > > Buck > > > On Sun, 25 April 1999, RANDAL J BUBLITZ wrote: > > > > Buck, I learned a good supper from my Missouri friends while we were on > > a canoe trip. I use it alot now for an easy, filling meal. Potato soup; > > includes potatos, cheese and salt & pepper. Cut a potato in half, start > > shaving ultra thin slices of potato into the pot, gradually making > > thicker slices. Then start dicing potato small, gradually making bigger > > chunks. Add water, and start cooking, stirring often. As the potato > > cooks the thin stuff will turn into broth, the thicker stuff will just > > cook. when done slice cheese on top and stir in as it's melting and as > > you're eating. Season to taste. I find this good, filling and plenty of > > carbohydrates for the physical demands of a trek. Try it, you'll like. > > ps I carry the cheese that is sealed in wax, this will last without > > refridgeration. pps, any one have good sources for smoked bacon, > > sausage, etc... those that don't need refridgeration....Hardtack > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: period recipes, drinks, camp life Date: 25 Apr 1999 20:57:07 -0500 For cured bacon call either of two meat packers in Smithfield, Va = 23430...each has a very similar name....one is Smithfield Packing Co, = Inc , a subsididiary of Smithfield Foods, and they sell Luters (that is = spelled right -Luter's) Genuine Smithfield Bacon. Call infomationa and = get both meat packers' names and call them. I think both of them will = mail you their bacon.....how is that for being cured? I have used both = brands and both are very good. Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Sunday, April 25, 1999 7:10 PM > Thanks bud, >=20 > anyone got some good fast and easy receipes for period camping. >=20 > Buck >=20 > > On Sun, 25 April 1999, RANDAL J BUBLITZ wrote: > >=20 > > Buck, I learned a good supper from my Missouri friends while we = were on > > a canoe trip. I use it alot now for an easy, filling meal. Potato = soup; > > includes potatos, cheese and salt & pepper. Cut a potato in half, = start > > shaving ultra thin slices of potato into the pot, gradually making > > thicker slices. Then start dicing potato small, gradually making = bigger > > chunks. Add water, and start cooking, stirring often. As the = potato > > cooks the thin stuff will turn into broth, the thicker stuff will = just > > cook. when done slice cheese on top and stir in as it's melting and = as > > you're eating. Season to taste. I find this good, filling and = plenty of > > carbohydrates for the physical demands of a trek. Try it, you'll = like.=20 > > ps I carry the cheese that is sealed in wax, this will last without > > refridgeration. pps, any one have good sources for smoked bacon, > > sausage, etc... those that don't need refridgeration....Hardtack >=20 >=20 > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account = http://www.uswestmail.net >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kestrel@ticon.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: in our Prayers (OFF TOPIC) Date: 26 Apr 1999 03:20:04 -0500 >Most Safeway stores are taking donations and have the blue and >silver ribbons, will try and get an address for those interested. >Buck Conner >Colorado Territory Thanks Again Buck, but since I left Wyoming(21 years ago) I haven't seen a Safeway Store,unless I get back on the left of the Mississippi River. Jeff Powers,A mind like a steel trap:Rusty and illegal in 37 states! I KNOW the future..........GOD WINS! Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Jackson" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 26 Apr 1999 04:23:28 PDT Thanks Hardtack, I will use this for my upcoming rondyvoo. Sounds like a good meal to fix. MadJack >From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants >Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:35:17 -0700 > >Buck, I learned a good supper from my Missouri friends while we were on >a canoe trip. I use it alot now for an easy, filling meal. Potato soup; > includes potatos, cheese and salt & pepper. Cut a potato in half, start >shaving ultra thin slices of potato into the pot, gradually making >thicker slices. Then start dicing potato small, gradually making bigger >chunks. Add water, and start cooking, stirring often. As the potato >cooks the thin stuff will turn into broth, the thicker stuff will just >cook. when done slice cheese on top and stir in as it's melting and as >you're eating. Season to taste. I find this good, filling and plenty of >carbohydrates for the physical demands of a trek. Try it, you'll like. >ps I carry the cheese that is sealed in wax, this will last without >refridgeration. pps, any one have good sources for smoked bacon, >sausage, etc... those that don't need refridgeration....Hardtack > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Austin, Tim" Subject: MtMan-List: Smoked Bacon Date: 26 Apr 1999 08:14:15 -0500 There is a place that is located on I-35 several locations, and I-40 again several locations names Robertson's. There bacon is really good, carry it with me all the time. Do not know their number, but do know that each store is a franchised location. The headquarters is in Marietta, OK. Tim Austin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Pierce Subject: Re: MtMan-List: documenting historical treasures Date: 26 Apr 1999 10:01:51 -0400 I know some of you guys out there will like to jump in on this one and some will say we are wasting server space---all my life i have loved history and at the age of 12 got started into muzzle loading and collecting old original guns and things that are documented to have belonged to a specific person in our history. a gentleman by the name of COL. E. B. Saunders in berryville arkansas(an avid gun collector) was the one who got me started---he collected guns with history behind them or that belonged to famous people--poncho villa, the james gang, and many others to include specials or odities. he normally got a document from the person that he got the item from to document or thru research documented a article by a comparison analysis---the documentating of the mario madena pants is quite interesting on how it was concluded that and ownership was established. I have a set of saddle bags that belonged to J.C. Osborn---I recieved them in his will, and they are marked U.S. Mail and are signed on the inside with that name and the words first ride and a date---Mr osborne was in his late 90.s when he died and he was a pony express rider when he was a teenager. over the ages i have collected a lot of junk like that and in some form or another have tried to validate and prove to whom and where something came from and to not just have a word of mouth type of documentation---I have a couple of guns and a bolo knife that belonged to Col towsen whalen those are documented on his personal stationary and signed by his daughter. what i have shown above is more of positive documentation and not the thread type of documentating----I am interested in the threads and how they are positively used to establish historical fact or true ownership---it get real difficult some times with muzzle loaders to document them except for the maker if he was nice enough to sign or date the gun---It is like the so called boone guns that are or were in the boone family and were passed from family member to family member---does this truly document ownership or a suposition of their authontisity---the question is how are positive threads established that will validate beound any doubt ownership and or belonging to a specified person on individual and all----its like a muzzle loader can be compared to different makers or schools and establish a date time groupe when and where it was made but to evolve this thread lets look at the actual history of ownership and movement thru the country---how many times did an article change hands and no documentation is there---it is like myself---I have been around the world several times in the military but what documentation proved where something came from or was made-(is it the made in Japan sticker on the bottom"---I know several collector books on different things have been written by "EXPERTS on the SUBJECT" what establishes them as true experts in a field---I know how opiniated i sometimes get on a subject as you guys well know ----so some of you curators and collectors have a blast and give examples of positive confirming documentation on historical articles---You girls jump in ther also in your historical collectables---I have tracked ownership of Hawken rifles for several years and it is amazing how and why they change ownership, from selling, giving away to finding in a old building---Documentation is the word---show how it started and why you come to certain conclusions---like the article on Mario madena---type of pants below boy have we opened a big can of worms this time--- YMHOSANT =+= "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(727) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On 25 Apr 1999 10:07:54 -0700 writes: >Mike, > I remember Mrs. Gates saying she was sure those pants belonged to >the Medina family and she had looked at hundreds of newspaper pictures >for ones like them in the Ft. Collins and Loveland area, and as far as >she knew they were the only pair around. > Hanson told Ray Turner (AMM member) that he felt about 98% in favor >of these belonging to MM, and being on private property with no public >access, no one else was allow on the property other than the Medinas >to visit the grave of a family member. He also told me that Medina >being a fancy type of man and with his wealth at the time may have >even had several pairs of these pants and jackets that matched, but >that was just a guess ! > Interesting to thing about and like someone said, some of these old >boys hung on to the old styles, even if not in fashion. > Turtle. > >> On Sun, 25 April 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote: >> >> ------- Start of forwarded message ------- >> >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants >> To: hawknest4@juno.com >> From: >> Date: 25 Apr 1999 07:57:37 PDT >> >> Hawk, >> >> One big factor is that Mrs. Gates had a picture of Louie Papa >(Medina's step-son) sitting on his white horse around the turn of the >century at the grave of his step sister (Lena) on my father-in-laws >property, according to the Loveland newspaper he spent many hours in >the area that his step-father had hunted and visited. >> >> Some of the old timers said the family would come up after Marino >passed on and spend weekends getting away from the heat in town. This >is only 6 miles into the foothills from Medina Flats, the pants were >probably left by accident on one of these outtings according to Mrs. >Gates, an educated guess as she put it. >> >> Buck >> >> > On Sun, 25 April 1999, michael pierce wrote: >> > >> > good data still wonder how you establish that the paints were >> > madenia's---got to have a good thread to link it all to and to >> > positatively establish ownership---not just a supisition---Your >story is >> > similar to me and dan anderson finfing a spanish gold mine lost >since >> > 1622---we have that one documented--- >> > >> > >> > "HAWK" >> > Michael pierce >> > 854 Glenfield Dr. >> > Palm Harbor Florida 34684 >> > E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 >> __________________ >> > >She showed me a late picture of Marino wearing breeches like the >ones >> > >I have found another picture of Louie Papa (Medina's step-son) >> > >wearing the same breeches, taken in a parade in Loveland after >the >> > >turn of the century. Interesting, but questionable as to whether >they >> > >were his or >> > >someone else's and how did the trousers get on this hill? >> ____________________________________________________________ >> > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >> >> >> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account >http://www.uswestmail.net >> >> ------- End of forwarded message ------- >> >> >> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account >http://www.uswestmail.net > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account >http://www.uswestmail.net > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "john c. funk,jr" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Horse Tack Date: 26 Apr 1999 07:58:03 -0700 Jerry, Sorry for the delay in getting to your question re: halter construction. Yes, I had been referring to halters, their construction and material used. My only fear in using cotton rope is its lack of strength. Maybe braiding some strands together would solve that problem. Definitely got to work on that. Thanks again. John Funk ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 8:26 PM > Randy, > > Thanks for the info on the American Rendezvous Magazine and headstalls. I > have every issue and I'm going to look up the article. Another book that I > have picked up that has some good stuff is called "Western Tack Tips" by Tom > Hall. Another Brother got it at a tack store and although it has some > modern stuff, it also has some good stuff on how to make old style > hackamore's. I have some period correct stuff made with leather and brass > made by Marty Deushane and if anyone wants his # and address, I'd be happy > to provide it. > > What I was wondering from reading the original post by John Funk was, where > you talking about headstalls or halters? Sounds more like halters. If that > is the case, then they could be made of cotton rope much like modern ones in > tack stores made of nylon rope. > > Best Regards, > > Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Columbine High Information (OFF-TOPIC) Date: 26 Apr 1999 15:16:42 -0700 For those of you on the hist_list that have contacted me on this list and off-list on the Columbine High Shooting, wanting an address for contributions. These are tax-deductible per our Governor in Colorado and Vice President of the United States, mentioned at the Memorial Service on Sunday. There are funds setup for ech student and teacher that were wounded or loss their life. Figured most didn't relly know these people and the general funds would be better suited. Colorado State University is collecting for the victims and their families. Contributions should be made by check payable to "Colorado State Cares" and mailed to CSU Foundation, PO Box 1870, Fort Collins, CO 80522-1870 Columbine High School is collecting for the damage done by the bullets and blood stains to the library. Contributions of $10 should be made by check payable to "Columbine High School Library Fund", C/O the Littleton Jaycees, PO Box 1008, Littleton, CO 80160-1008. Any other information desired may be gotten from the two addresses shown above. Sorry for the delay, but with everything that has happened, it's hard to get good information for address, phone numbers, etc. Buck Conner Colorado Territory Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Keefe" Subject: MtMan-List: Another newbie question Date: 26 Apr 1999 19:21:42 -0400 First off thanks to everyone who responded to my last question, it was helpful info. Today I am looking for a source for plans of camp furniture such as kitchen box, chairs , table E.C.T. Havn,t had much luck locating any so far Many Thanks Bob Keefe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Another newbie question Date: 26 Apr 1999 16:40:35 -0700 Yup, Kinda hard at first. Check out these web sites, look on them for other links and use the search features of your browser and a'fore long you'll have more bookmarks than you know what to do with! Medicine Bear <(((>< http://www.jastown.com/ http://home.earthlink.net/~fsimmons/post.htm http://www.teleport.com/~walking/goosebay/ http://www.bradleycompanyofthefox.com/books3.html http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ Bob Keefe wrote: > First off thanks to everyone who responded to my last > question, it was helpful info. Today I am looking for a source for plans of > camp furniture such as kitchen box, chairs , table E.C.T. Havn,t had much > luck locating any so far > > Many Thanks > > Bob Keefe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Using Documentation and Sound Thread Resources Date: 26 Apr 1999 16:46:16 -0700 Thanks to Michael Pierce and Buck Conner for showing some examples of clear documentations and sound thread resources when researching items. Both of these gentlemen have always been delightful in their findings and knowledge of different time frames that we all are interested in on this history link. There have been many that have added and hopefully continue to do so, this is what Dean Rudy has started and assembled in the files we can go to, and refresh our memories. Thanks to all of you that come forth with such great items of interest, it's a nice experience to be able to learn and listen along with some funny stories thrown in, again thank you. Back hear in PA, most do the F&I War to Rev. War then jump to the Civil War, very little fur trade, making this a nice relief. Turtle. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Columbine High Information (OFF-TOPIC) Date: 26 Apr 1999 16:49:03 -0700 Thanks Buck, checks in the mail. Turtle. > On Mon, 26 April 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote: > > For those of you on the hist_list that have contacted me on this list and off-list on the Columbine High Shooting, wanting an address for contributions. > > These are tax-deductible per our Governor in Colorado and Vice President of the United States, mentioned at the Memorial Service on Sunday. > > There are funds setup for ech student and teacher that were wounded or loss their life. Figured most didn't relly know these people and the general funds would be better suited. > > Colorado State University is collecting for the victims and their families. Contributions should be made by check payable to "Colorado State Cares" and mailed to CSU Foundation, PO Box 1870, Fort Collins, CO 80522-1870 > > Columbine High School is collecting for the damage done by the bullets and blood stains to the library. Contributions of $10 should be made by check payable to "Columbine High School Library Fund", C/O the Littleton Jaycees, PO Box 1008, Littleton, CO 80160-1008. > > Any other information desired may be gotten from the two addresses shown above. Sorry for the delay, but with everything that has happened, it's hard to get good information for address, phone numbers, etc. > > Buck Conner > Colorado Territory > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Another newbie question Date: 26 Apr 1999 17:29:50 -0700 Bob, check out Book of Buckskinning II for the article on 'Making Camp Gear'. This article includes chests, chairs, etc.... Hardtack ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Roberts Subject: MtMan-List: Walnut Dye Date: 26 Apr 1999 21:29:56 -0400 From what I've gathered by perusing the archives, a logical choice for dyeing material dark brown is the hull of black walnut. My question is whether anyone has successfully performed this task using the hull of english walnut which seems to be the variety harvested for it's meat. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Pierce Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Using Documentation and Sound Thread Resources Date: 26 Apr 1999 22:25:40 -0400 turtle ---if you need anything give us a whoot on or offline or our phone number is at the end of this post---we'ev been back to the indian wars a bit---best to you and thanks for the good words---still looking for that positive thread for proper documentation of a possession to include that rifle I have sitting in the corner---that i have been scratching my head about for over 3 weeks---one of those unmakked things---looks like a fordney but----starting that ever ending search for reality--- "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(727) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On 26 Apr 1999 16:46:16 -0700 writes: > Thanks to Michael Pierce and Buck Conner for showing some examples >of clear documentations and sound thread resources when researching >items. > Both of these gentlemen have always been delightful in their >findings and knowledge of different time frames that we all are >interested in on this history link. > There have been many that have added and hopefully continue to do >so, this is what Dean Rudy has started and assembled in the files we >can go to, and refresh our memories. > Thanks to all of you that come forth with such great items of >interest, it's a nice experience to be able to learn and listen along >with some funny stories thrown in, again thank you. > Back hear in PA, most do the F&I War to Rev. War then jump to the >Civil War, very little fur trade, making this a nice relief. > Turtle. > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account >http://www.uswestmail.net > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Using Documentation and Sound Thread Resources Date: 27 Apr 1999 07:05:39 -0700 Ditto to Michael's remarks Turtle. Hey, what would you call this for documentation, good, bad or a thread boys ? ______________________________ I owed and operated a muzzleloading store and customer - Dale would come in for coffee and some friendly chat. One day he mentioned he had a little chromed plated pistol that his grandfather owned, it had been loaded for so long they were afraid to beat the shells out off it. It was a little S&W break open in 38 S&W (not Special - sometimes called 38 S&W short). Nickel plated with the hard rubber black grips. Dale's grandfather had worked at a stage stop in Virginia Dale, CO (same place that Jack Slade ran years before, Hole In The Wall Gang leader and Wells Fargo agent. My ex-wife's grandfather worked for both of these gentlemen, as a guard and stage driver between Ft. Collins CO and Larimie to Cheyenne WYO. that's another interesting story of John Mansfield. Anyway "Doc" and Dale's grandfather were friends, "Doc" was supplied with fresh horses and food on several occasions when being followed by different people. Dale never said if they were the law or lawless. It's in the history books of this place, if interested. Dale couldn't get the cartridges out of it. He was worried that his kids may get hurt with it laying around the house and wondered if I would look at it. He brought it in and told us the story of this gun, I suggested we write to S&W and that would show what was on their records as to who really purchased the gun originally. In the mean time we would try and remove the frozen cartridges. That turned out to be a job, removed the cylinder and soaked it in several types of lubes, oils and finally carb. cleaner. with a dowel and a small hammer we drove the loaded cases out of their resting place without hurting anything other than pushing the lead bullets down in the cases. Overall condition of bore and cylinder holes were poor from lack of care, nickel was about 50%, but the gun functioned, so we were pleased with what we had done. When S&W's letter arrived the story he (Dale) told held water as the gun fell within a dozen revolver serial numbers that were purchased by the famous "Doc" Holiday before the turn of the century. In the letter they gave this information and then ended by asking if the gun was for sale. Have lost the serial number since then and gave the owner (Dale Woliver) the Smith & Wesson letter about the little revolver that was purchased by "Doc" Holiday. This was one of a dozen that "Doc" Holiday had purchased from the S&W factory and gave to his friends for favors they had done while on the run with Wyatt and his friends after their shootout at the OK Corral. As far as I know it is still laying on the fire place mantel with an old newspaper picture of "Doc" and Dale's grandfather in front of the stage stop at Virginia Dale Colorado. Now is this documentated or thread for information about this little revolver, just because Dale has a picture of his relation with "Doc" doesn't say he was given the gun, and the S&W records do not say who received the gun. So Hawk, how would you figure this one, I don't personality know what it would be. Can see it both ways ! Buck Conner dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. ______________________________________ > On Mon, 26 April 1999, Michael Pierce wrote: > turtle ---if you need anything give us a whoot on or offline or our phone > number is at the end of this post---we'ev been back to the indian wars a > bit---best to you and thanks for the good words---still looking for that > positive thread for proper documentation of a possession to include that > rifle I have sitting in the corner---that i have been scratching my head > about for over 3 weeks---one of those unmakked things---looks like a > fordney but----starting that ever ending search for reality--- > > "Hawk" > Michael Pierce > 854 Glenfield Dr. > Palm Harbor, florida 34684 > 1-(727) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com > > On 26 Apr 1999 16:46:16 -0700 writes: > > Thanks to Michael Pierce and Buck Conner for showing some examples > >of clear documentations and sound thread resources when researching > >items. > > Both of these gentlemen have always been delightful in their > >findings and knowledge of different time frames that we all are > >interested in on this history link. > > There have been many that have added and hopefully continue to do > >so, this is what Dean Rudy has started and assembled in the files we > >can go to, and refresh our memories. > > Thanks to all of you that come forth with such great items of > >interest, it's a nice experience to be able to learn and listen along > >with some funny stories thrown in, again thank you. > > Back hear in PA, most do the F&I War to Rev. War then jump to the > >Civil War, very little fur trade, making this a nice relief. > > Turtle. > > > > > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account > >http://www.uswestmail.net > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TetonTod@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Henry Route Article Date: 27 Apr 1999 17:52:30 EDT Those of you who have obtained a cpoy of the henry Route article from me, please send me your mailing address again, there's another short related article I forgot to send. Todd Glover ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Using Documentation and Sound Thread Resources Date: 27 Apr 1999 19:07:52 -0700 I can see what you say, this could be taken either way as documentated or thread information depending on who inviewed the sources. It will be interesting to see how others would look at this, how about it Hawk. Seeing how the gun has stayed in the family and the relation worked at the stage stop, and is pictured with Holiday, is real good thread resouce documentation - like Medina's pants. If he had written paper from the relation, I think it would become solid documentation. Smith & Wesson information says the revolvers were purchased by Holiday for gifts (if I understood that correctly) but didn't give any clue as to who they were given to. Turtle. > Now is this documentated or thread for information about this little revolver, just because Dale has a picture of his relation with "Doc" doesn't say he was given the gun, and the S&W records do not say who received the gun. So Hawk, how would you figure this one, I don't personality know what it would be. Can see it both ways ! > > Buck Conner > dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laurel huber Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants Date: 27 Apr 1999 19:33:37 -0700 I stand corrected on the dates of the activity of the Amish in this country. I should have know better and appreciate the education. Larry Huber "Shoots-the-Prairie" turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > In reply to your question on the Amish work pants sold by several shops around the country. > > >On Wed, 21 April 1999, Laurel huber wrote: > >I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for >everyday knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet >buttons. > > These pants are suited for Civil War and later into the westered movement, to late for fur trade. In Hanson's sketch books you'll see drop fronts, but they have a narrow drop, Buck Conner has an original pair of breeches that belonged to Marino Medina that are drop front and Hanson figured they were late 1840's to 1860's - narrow drop front. > > >Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade > >re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have > >seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad >Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the >1850s,Riverboat period. > > I am Amish and my relations came here in the mid 1700's to work as farmers to supply the demands of Phila. and other cities on the east coast. We can date our relations back over 300 years, so I don't understand what you are saying. If working and supplying a demand is not active then what is ! Turtle. > > >The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being >active. Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have >been as common. Anyone else on the list have documentation on the >wide spread appearance of the Broad Fall style? > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "landis" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Drunks and Nuns O.T. Date: 27 Apr 1999 20:51:40 -0700 -----Original Message----- WJMARTIN@erols.com ; drc2277@aol.com ; cmedrummin@aol.com ; Ifn4@aol.com ; regier@pacifier.com ; heavenzdelight@usa.net ; Muchogatas@aol.com ; Floss4u@aol.com ; kirbyef@yahoo.com ; henshaw@molalla.net ; pchandwork@erols.com ; Paul.Wagner@Osan.AF.Mil ; RPBITZ@aol.com ; Feness@erols.com ; travis_mccann@hotmail.com ; DHecker651@aol.com ; P-dinet1com@webtv.net ; Victoria.Agnew@PSS.Boeing.com > >> >>There was a guy in a bar one night that got really drunk, I mean REALLY >>REALLY drunk. When the bar closed he got up to go home. >> >>As he tumbled out the door he saw a num walking on the sidewalk. So he >>stumbled over to the nun and punched her in the face. Well the nun was >>really suprised but before she could do or say anything he punched her >>again. >> >>This time she fell down and he stumbled over to her and kicked her in the >>butt, then he picked her up and threw her into a wall. >> >>By this time the nun was pretty weak and couldn't move very much so then >>he stumbled over to her, put his face right next to hers and said.... >> >>"Not very strong tonight, are you batman?". >> > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Drunks and Nuns O.T. Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:49:40 EDT boy-oh-boy. and to think iron tongue reamed me months ago for what was a good joke.... myself, i've got a great sense of humor, but we have lost members of this list over less than that.... if you or anyone else wants to get/send jokes, lets do it off-list, not just off-topic, eh? yhs, Barney Fife (and yes, its ok to put me on your joke list, and if anyone wants on mine, let me know offlist) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Pierce Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Using Documentation and Sound Thread Resources Date: 28 Apr 1999 01:31:35 -0400 the smith and wesson break top---- if i were to buy the gun and wanted the best available documentation I would want a statement from the oldest known owner or family member of or about its known history--- and noterized---in the letter include all the know history of the pistol by the family member--- then with or included in the documentation--- include the letter from smith & wesson and a copy of the picture of the relative with holiday with a anotation on the back of who is in the picture and the estimated date it was taken if possible---also note that the pistol had been in the family since around or before that date---and how it was passed thru the different family members--- to me this would be solid documented threads that now makes a $100.00 break top pistol into one that has a very increased value due to ownership by holiday---the important thread is that if the letter from smith says that he bought them for gifts for or for close friends---they should have the original letter or order from him that states this---they will photo copy it for you at a price and send it to you---in all documentation always refer to any markings or charactoristics of the piece and or the serial number of the gun---VERY IMPORTANT ---i feel--- I know of at least 5 or 6 jessy james guns--but none have a lick of any documentation or proof of past history---only word of mouth of the family member---such as ---it was given to me by my granfather and he said it was once used by jessy james---(BS) I believe the two solid threads being the letter from S&W and the photograph of the relative---but you need to lock all the pieces together with the noterized statements of the relatives to further validate positive ownership---smith and colt have letters on file of customers that ordered more than one gun at a time or on more than one ocasion---I would bet you a $10.00 spot they have more than just the serial number info---write them or call their historical documentation staff and spend the money to make the gun more valuable---documentated guns go for well over 10 times the standard market value if it belonged to a famous person or historical figure---and are normally limited in number--- it is like my hawkens---I am its third owner--know who originally bought it who got it in the second ownership and then to me---its like a abstract of title on a piece of property---I like that kind of documentation---and you can normally verify names by old tax roles in certain areas of the country--- would like to see pictures of the smith and the picture of the family member and holiday---- --i feel there is a good start on the documentation but needs the loose ends locked up to solidify the historical threads for posterity and for future owners and to give the piece increased value-----a copy of bucks statement would be good to add to the guns historical package just for fun and such---as was stated the feelings could go eather way but the more info you have the more to the positive side the ballance is swayed in my estimation---pretty close but more is better and if it is not in writing then all becomes only word of mouth---this one has good posibilities in my estimation ---just close all possible loops--. "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(727) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On 27 Apr 1999 19:07:52 -0700 writes: > I can see what you say, this could be taken either way as >documentated or thread information depending on who inviewed the >sources. It will be interesting to see how others would look at this, >how about it Hawk. > > Seeing how the gun has stayed in the family and the relation worked >at the stage stop, and is pictured with Holiday, is real good thread >resouce documentation - like Medina's pants. If he had written paper >from the relation, I think it would become solid documentation. Smith >& Wesson information says the revolvers were purchased by Holiday for >gifts (if I understood that correctly) but didn't give any clue as to >who they were given to. > Turtle. > >> Now is this documentated or thread for information about this little >revolver, just because Dale has a picture of his relation with "Doc" >doesn't say he was given the gun, and the S&W records do not say who >received the gun. So Hawk, how would you figure this one, I don't >personality know what it would be. Can see it both ways ! >> >> Buck Conner >> dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account >http://www.uswestmail.net > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jennifer McEntire Subject: MtMan-List: Maps Date: 28 Apr 1999 11:48:10 -0400 Does anyone know if Mountain ever drew their maps on buckskin a la Native Americans? If you think they did, can you point to an example? Thanks for your help. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Using Documentation and Sound Thread Resources Date: 29 Apr 1999 11:33:49 EDT A new treasure trove of primary documents online: http://www.universitylake.org/primarysources.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Henry Route Article Date: 29 Apr 1999 14:27:24 -0700 Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. P.O.Box 28168 13111 W. Alameda Pkwy #16 Lakewood, CO 80228 Thanks Todd. Buck On Tue, 27 April 1999, TetonTod@aol.com wrote: > > Those of you who have obtained a cpoy of the henry Route article from me, > please send me your mailing address again, there's another short related > article I forgot to send. > > > Todd Glover Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: MtMan-List: Pants Date: 29 Apr 1999 18:50:29 -0600 Buck and Turtle. I wrote that I had to disagree with you guys on the pants. I didn't know you were talking about the Amish, but here is what I was thinking in reference to the fur trade. For years I have heard that drop front pants were the only authentic ones from the 1700's clear thru the civil war and I have to disagree with that. I don't think you can give a blanket endorsement like that nor that narrow fall for the earlier times and broadfall for later. I called John Luzader and asked him. He is one of the most knowlegable men I know concerning the fur trade and especially the clothing and accoutrements for the 1800's. His answer is about the same as mine- There is NO DEFINITE STLYE being used at one time. He further states that he just saw an original pair of narrow fall worn in Nebraska in 1873, broadfall knee britches worn at Ft. Vancouver in 1890 and a pair of french fly trousers documented in New Mexico in 1821. So my contention is that probably drop front pants during the fur trade were the most COMMON but I doubt that narrow fall were replaced by broad falls in the latter years and I really doubt that they were the predominate fashion during the Civil War. But, if you guys have some documentation that definately proves me wrong I would really be interested in seeing it. Anyway, that is what I waw thinking and talk to you later. Don Keas DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Sullivan" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Using Documentation and Sound Thread Resources Date: 29 Apr 1999 22:15:18 -0500 >A new treasure trove of primary documents online: > >http://www.universitylake.org/primarysources.html Aye, and what a treasure! If you've not at least glanced through this list and scanned a few of the entries, you are surely missing a grand opportunity. Check it out!! And thank you for the link. James ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:14:54 -0500 Date: 30 Apr 1999 05:11:56 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE92D0.C383CC00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Want to hear something truly sad? A friend in Georgia ,who is an = elementary school librarian, tells me that special security precautions = are being taken today, including policemen at the school, because today = is the anniversary of the suicide of Adolph Hitler. At an ELEMENTARY = SCHOOL!! How is it that schools are becomming as tense as prisons? = When I was in school about the only way you could get hurt there was = tripping down some stairs, maybe getting into a fistfight...and, oh = yeah, Mr. Jerome Cribbs' paddle from hell. And all I had to worry about = besides that was homework, girls and Russian hydrogen bombs. What a world we live in. Lanney Ratcliff ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE92D0.C383CC00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Want to hear something truly sad?  A friend in Georgia ,who is = an=20 elementary school librarian, tells me that special security precautions = are=20 being taken today, including policemen at the school, because today is = the=20 anniversary of the suicide of Adolph Hitler.  At an ELEMENTARY = SCHOOL!!=20   How is it that schools are becomming as tense as prisons?  = When I=20 was in school about the only way you could get hurt there was tripping = down some=20 stairs, maybe getting into a fistfight...and, oh yeah, Mr. Jerome = Cribbs' paddle=20 from hell.  And all I had to worry about besides that was homework, = girls=20 and Russian hydrogen bombs.
What a world we live in.
Lanney Ratcliff
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE92D0.C383CC00-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:14:54 -0500 Date: 30 Apr 1999 12:36:51 -0700 --------------933AF14D3BF706EA8B3B8896 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lanney, When you were in school, God was too! They hadn't kicked Him out yet because He wasn't "politically correct"! When I was a boy in school I learned the pledge of allegiance, prayer and the 10 commandments. A day didn't go by that someone wasn't lecturing me about morality. (mostly because I was a little hellion) And look at me now! A big strappin' mountain man! Wagh! All kidding aside, God's word sums it up best where it says: "If my people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray, I will hear from heaven and heal their land." Our only hope has always been and will always be only in Him! Medicine Bear <(((>< Ratcliff wrote: > Want to hear something truly sad? A friend in Georgia ,who is an > elementary school librarian, tells me that special security > precautions are being taken today, including policemen at the school, > because today is the anniversary of the suicide of Adolph Hitler. At > an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL!! How is it that schools are becomming as tense > as prisons? When I was in school about the only way you could get > hurt there was tripping down some stairs, maybe getting into a > fistfight...and, oh yeah, Mr. Jerome Cribbs' paddle from hell. And > all I had to worry about besides that was homework, girls and Russian > hydrogen bombs.What a world we live in.Lanney Ratcliff --------------933AF14D3BF706EA8B3B8896 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lanney,

When you were in school, God was too!  They hadn't kicked Him out yet because He wasn't "politically correct"!
When I was a boy in school I learned the pledge of allegiance, prayer and the 10 commandments.  A day didn't go by that someone wasn't lecturing me about morality. (mostly because I was a little hellion)  And look at me now!  A big strappin' mountain man!  Wagh!
All kidding aside, God's word sums it up best where it says:

"If my people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray, I will hear from heaven and heal their land."

Our only hope has always been and will always be only in Him!

Medicine Bear  <(((><

Ratcliff wrote:

Want to hear something truly sad?  A friend in Georgia ,who is an elementary school librarian, tells me that special security precautions are being taken today, including policemen at the school, because today is the anniversary of the suicide of Adolph Hitler.  At an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL!!   How is it that schools are becomming as tense as prisons?  When I was in school about the only way you could get hurt there was tripping down some stairs, maybe getting into a fistfight...and, oh yeah, Mr. Jerome Cribbs' paddle from hell.  And all I had to worry about besides that was homework, girls and Russian hydrogen bombs.What a world we live in.Lanney Ratcliff
--------------933AF14D3BF706EA8B3B8896-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: The Sweeneys Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:14:54 -0500 Date: 30 Apr 1999 14:27:47 +0000 --------------9BF31C3E2D9A7FE06326BBF4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well heres my 2 cents... God in schools is great if all the kids are on the the same page, but not everybody believes in the same way . For instance I call God, Great Spirit and believe the trees , earth, and animals our my relatives....So what religion would schools teach is the question...... and I aint no liberal hippy either. Respectfully, Mick Sierra Foothills Frank wrote: > Lanney, > > When you were in school, God was too! They hadn't > kicked Him out yet because He wasn't "politically > correct"! > When I was a boy in school I learned the pledge of > allegiance, prayer and the 10 commandments. A day > didn't go by that someone wasn't lecturing me > about morality. (mostly because I was a little > hellion) And look at me now! A big strappin' > mountain man! Wagh! > All kidding aside, God's word sums it up best > where it says: > > "If my people, who are called by My name, will > humble themselves and pray, I will hear from > heaven and heal their land." > > Our only hope has always been and will always be > only in Him! > > Medicine Bear <(((>< > > Ratcliff wrote: > >> Want to hear something truly sad? A friend in >> Georgia ,who is an elementary school librarian, >> tells me that special security precautions are >> being taken today, including policemen at the >> school, because today is the anniversary of the >> suicide of Adolph Hitler. At an ELEMENTARY >> SCHOOL!! How is it that schools are becomming >> as tense as prisons? When I was in school about >> the only way you could get hurt there was >> tripping down some stairs, maybe getting into a >> fistfight...and, oh yeah, Mr. Jerome Cribbs' >> paddle from hell. And all I had to worry about >> besides that was homework, girls and Russian >> hydrogen bombs.What a world we live in.Lanney >> Ratcliff > --------------9BF31C3E2D9A7FE06326BBF4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well heres my  2 cents... God in schools is great if all the kids are on the the same page, but not everybody believes in the same way . For instance I call God, Great Spirit and believe the trees , earth, and animals our my relatives....So what religion would schools teach is the question...... and I aint no liberal hippy either.

Respectfully,
                  Mick
                  Sierra Foothills

Frank wrote:

 Lanney,

When you were in school, God was too!  They hadn't kicked Him out yet because He wasn't "politically correct"!
When I was a boy in school I learned the pledge of allegiance, prayer and the 10 commandments.  A day didn't go by that someone wasn't lecturing me about morality. (mostly because I was a little hellion)  And look at me now!  A big strappin' mountain man!  Wagh!
All kidding aside, God's word sums it up best where it says:

"If my people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray, I will hear from heaven and heal their land."

Our only hope has always been and will always be only in Him!

Medicine Bear  <(((><

Ratcliff wrote:

Want to hear something truly sad?  A friend in Georgia ,who is an elementary school librarian, tells me that special security precautions are being taken today, including policemen at the school, because today is the anniversary of the suicide of Adolph Hitler.  At an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL!!   How is it that schools are becomming as tense as prisons?  When I was in school about the only way you could get hurt there was tripping down some stairs, maybe getting into a fistfight...and, oh yeah, Mr. Jerome Cribbs' paddle from hell.  And all I had to worry about besides that was homework, girls and Russian hydrogen bombs.What a world we live in.Lanney Ratcliff
  --------------9BF31C3E2D9A7FE06326BBF4-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:14:54 -0500 Date: 30 Apr 1999 14:54:40 -0700 --------------2C00D03560DCBE850BA6A2F2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mick, I won't go in to specific beliefs here, we've drifted enough but even the religions I definitely don't agree with all teach a basic respect for man and accountability! But just for the record and to open the biggest can of worms of all...our country was founded as a Christian bible believing country! That IS historical fact! The schools don't want to teach that either. If we were to return to the great principals that began this country we would begin to undo the damage we've done. I didn't mean to imply schools should teach religion, but there's nothing wrong with teaching respect for one another. Accountability for your actions and reward for good works. Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. Caring for one another and doing without because you esteem others as more important than yourself. You don't have to put an name on that but if you must, it's called Christianity! But that's the problem, when you teach those principals it's obvious that they are Christian teachings. They were good enough for the men and women who built this great country and opened the westward expansion, it'll do for me too! History is proving we were better with those beliefs than without them. I'll stand with the evidence. Thanks for your two cents, I respect your right to choose your own beliefs. I apologize to the list for this departure, I'll endeavor to refrain in the future. Frank (MB) <(((>< The Sweeneys wrote: > Well heres my 2 cents... God in schools is great if all the kids are > on the the same page, but not everybody believes in the same way . For > instance I call God, Great Spirit and believe the trees , earth, and > animals our my relatives....So what religion would schools teach is > the question...... and I aint no liberal hippy either. > > Respectfully, > Mick > Sierra Foothills > > Frank wrote: > >> Lanney, >> >> When you were in school, God was too! They hadn't kicked Him out >> yet because He wasn't "politically correct"! >> When I was a boy in school I learned the pledge of allegiance, >> prayer and the 10 commandments. A day didn't go by that someone >> wasn't lecturing me about morality. (mostly because I was a little >> hellion) And look at me now! A big strappin' mountain man! Wagh! >> All kidding aside, God's word sums it up best where it says: >> >> "If my people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and >> pray, I will hear from heaven and heal their land." >> >> Our only hope has always been and will always be only in Him! >> >> Medicine Bear <(((>< >> >> Ratcliff wrote: >> >> > Want to hear something truly sad? A friend in Georgia ,who is an >> > elementary school librarian, tells me that special security >> > precautions are being taken today, including policemen at the >> > school, because today is the anniversary of the suicide of Adolph >> > Hitler. At an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL!! How is it that schools are >> > becomming as tense as prisons? When I was in school about the only >> > way you could get hurt there was tripping down some stairs, maybe >> > getting into a fistfight...and, oh yeah, Mr. Jerome Cribbs' paddle >> > from hell. And all I had to worry about besides that was homework, >> > girls and Russian hydrogen bombs.What a world we live in.Lanney >> > Ratcliff >> --------------2C00D03560DCBE850BA6A2F2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mick,

I won't go in to specific beliefs here, we've drifted enough but even the religions I definitely don't agree with all teach a basic respect for man and accountability!  But just for the record and to open the biggest can of worms of all...our country was founded as a Christian bible believing country!  That IS historical fact!  The schools don't want to teach that either.  If we were to return to the great principals that began this country we would begin to undo the damage we've done.  I didn't mean to imply schools should teach religion, but there's nothing wrong with teaching  respect for one another.  Accountability for your actions and reward for good works.  Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.  Caring for one another and doing without because you esteem others as more important than yourself.  You don't have to put an name on that but if you must, it's called Christianity!  But that's the problem, when you teach those principals it's obvious that they are Christian teachings.  They were good enough for the men and women who built this great country and opened the westward expansion, it'll do for me too!  History is proving we were better with those beliefs than without them.  I'll stand with the evidence.
Thanks for your two cents, I respect your right to choose your own beliefs.

I apologize to the list for this departure, I'll endeavor to refrain in the future.

Frank  (MB)  <(((><

The Sweeneys wrote:

Well heres my  2 cents... God in schools is great if all the kids are on the the same page, but not everybody believes in the same way . For instance I call God, Great Spirit and believe the trees , earth, and animals our my relatives....So what religion would schools teach is the question...... and I aint no liberal hippy either.

Respectfully,
                  Mick
                  Sierra Foothills

Frank wrote:

 Lanney,

When you were in school, God was too!  They hadn't kicked Him out yet because He wasn't "politically correct"!
When I was a boy in school I learned the pledge of allegiance, prayer and the 10 commandments.  A day didn't go by that someone wasn't lecturing me about morality. (mostly because I was a little hellion)  And look at me now!  A big strappin' mountain man!  Wagh!
All kidding aside, God's word sums it up best where it says:

"If my people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray, I will hear from heaven and heal their land."

Our only hope has always been and will always be only in Him!

Medicine Bear  <(((><

Ratcliff wrote:

Want to hear something truly sad?  A friend in Georgia ,who is an elementary school librarian, tells me that special security precautions are being taken today, including policemen at the school, because today is the anniversary of the suicide of Adolph Hitler.  At an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL!!   How is it that schools are becomming as tense as prisons?  When I was in school about the only way you could get hurt there was tripping down some stairs, maybe getting into a fistfight...and, oh yeah, Mr. Jerome Cribbs' paddle from hell.  And all I had to worry about besides that was homework, girls and Russian hydrogen bombs.What a world we live in.Lanney Ratcliff
--------------2C00D03560DCBE850BA6A2F2-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Mullen Subject: MtMan-List: Way OFF TOPIC Date: 30 Apr 1999 16:12:26 -0600 Sirs, As I child I was told that there is a proper forum in which to discuss both politics and religion. This is not the appropriate place for either of those discussions. I would suggest that if you would like to discuss either subject to do so in private (via email directed at individuals) and not on this list which Mr. Rudy has graciosly set up to discuss the FUR TRADE. If you would feel it is appropriate to discuss religious topics in this forum please have the common courtesy to indicate OFF TOPIC in the subject matter so that the rest of the list may disregard your personal discussions. YMHOS, David Mullen Frank wrote: > > Mick, > > I won't go in to specific beliefs here, we've drifted enough but even > the religions I definitely don't agree with all teach a basic respect > for man and accountability!  But just for the record and to open the > biggest can of worms of all...our country was founded as a Christian > bible believing country!  That IS historical fact!  The schools don't > want to teach that either.  If we were to return to the great > principals that began this country we would begin to undo the damage > we've done.  I didn't mean to imply schools should teach religion, but > there's nothing wrong with teaching  respect for one another.  > Accountability for your actions and reward for good works.  Doing unto > others as you would have them do unto you.  Caring for one another and > doing without because you esteem others as more important than > yourself.  You don't have to put an name on that but if you must, it's > called Christianity!  But that's the problem, when you teach those > principals it's obvious that they are Christian teachings.  They were > good enough for the men and women who built this great country and > opened the westward expansion, it'll do for me too!  History is > proving we were better with those beliefs than without them.  I'll > stand with the evidence. > Thanks for your two cents, I respect your right to choose your own > beliefs. > > I apologize to the list for this departure, I'll endeavor to refrain > in the future. > > Frank  (MB)  <(((>< > > The Sweeneys wrote: > > Well heres my  2 cents... God in schools is great if all the > kids are on the the same page, but not everybody believes in > the same way . For instance I call God, Great Spirit and > believe the trees , earth, and animals our my > relatives....So what religion would schools teach is the > question...... and I aint no liberal hippy either. > > Respectfully, >                   Mick >                   Sierra Foothills > > Frank wrote: > >  Lanney, > > When you were in school, God was too!  They hadn't > kicked Him out yet because He wasn't "politically > correct"! > When I was a boy in school I learned the pledge of > allegiance, prayer and the 10 commandments.  A day > didn't go by that someone wasn't lecturing me > about morality. (mostly because I was a little > hellion)  And look at me now!  A big strappin' > mountain man!  Wagh! > All kidding aside, God's word sums it up best > where it says: > > "If my people, who are called by My name, will > humble themselves and pray, I will hear from > heaven and heal their land." > > Our only hope has always been and will always be > only in Him! > > Medicine Bear  <(((>< > > Ratcliff wrote: > > Want to hear something truly sad?  A > friend in Georgia ,who is an elementary > school librarian, tells me that special > security precautions are being taken > today, including policemen at the > school, because today is the anniversary > of the suicide of Adolph Hitler.  At an > ELEMENTARY SCHOOL!!   How is it that > schools are becomming as tense as > prisons?  When I was in school about the > only way you could get hurt there was > tripping down some stairs, maybe getting > into a fistfight...and, oh yeah, Mr. > Jerome Cribbs' paddle from hell.  And > all I had to worry about besides that > was homework, girls and Russian hydrogen > bombs.What a world we live in.Lanney > Ratcliff -- David & Evelyn Mullen 202 Mesa Verde Jemez Springs, NM 87025 (505) 829-3212 email: dmullen@jemez.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Way OFF TOPIC Date: 30 Apr 1999 15:21:39 -0700 And I quote from my last post: "I apologize to the list for this departure, I'll endeavor to refrain in the future." Thanks for your added chastisement! MB David Mullen wrote: > Sirs, > > As I child I was told that there is a proper forum in which to discuss > both politics and religion. This is not the appropriate place for either > of those discussions. I would suggest that if you would like to discuss > either subject to do so in private (via email directed at individuals) > and not on this list which Mr. Rudy has graciosly set up to discuss the > FUR TRADE. If you would feel it is appropriate to discuss religious > topics in this forum please have the common courtesy to indicate OFF > TOPIC in the subject matter so that the rest of the list may disregard > your personal discussions. > > YMHOS, > David Mullen > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laura Rugel Glise Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Way OFF TOPIC Date: 30 Apr 1999 17:44:40 +0000 I'll tie the OFF TOPIC into the fur trade, Sir. Osborne Russell, Journal of a Trapper, states, "A man should not depart from the way he has been brought up." It's a direct quote from the Bible, of course, but it was a belief among the mountaineers that opened this country, and it is a belief I share. I am Lanney Ratcliff's friend, a media specialist, in Georgia. In my daughter's high school today, two-thirds of the children were absent. In a high school of 1,600 children, only 600 were present. Our country is being held hostage by its lack of values. As Mr. Jim Bridger would say, there is a "squall" in this country. I believe we live in a field of Time. I would certainly hate to think of the mountaineers attending their annual summer gathering, at those magical terrains where some of us have become pilgrims, hearing our "news from the States." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Way OFF TOPIC Date: 30 Apr 1999 22:07:19 -0500 David Mullen contends that this is not the proper place to discuss = politics or religion and he might be right, but I don't think so...at = least in the context of what triggered the discussions. Simply = preaching your own religion or personal politics for their own sake = would be inappropriate to this list, but I can understand why some folks = chose to comment on what is going on in the world in that context. It = is certainly as appropriate as endless discussions on cleaning gourds, = what food safe oil is best to finish a wooden bowl or the pros and cons = of ladies passing gas. Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 5:12 PM > Sirs, >=20 > As I child I was told that there is a proper forum in which to discuss > both politics and religion. This is not the appropriate place for = either > of those discussions. I would suggest that if you would like to = discuss > either subject to do so in private (via email directed at individuals) > and not on this list which Mr. Rudy has graciosly set up to discuss = the > FUR TRADE. If you would feel it is appropriate to discuss religious > topics in this forum please have the common courtesy to indicate OFF > TOPIC in the subject matter so that the rest of the list may disregard > your personal discussions. >=20 > YMHOS, > David Mullen=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Frank wrote: > >=20 > > Mick, > >=20 > > I won't go in to specific beliefs here, we've drifted enough but = even > > the religions I definitely don't agree with all teach a basic = respect > > for man and accountability! But just for the record and to open the > > biggest can of worms of all...our country was founded as a Christian > > bible believing country! That IS historical fact! The schools don't > > want to teach that either. If we were to return to the great > > principals that began this country we would begin to undo the damage > > we've done. I didn't mean to imply schools should teach religion, = but > > there's nothing wrong with teaching respect for one another.=20 > > Accountability for your actions and reward for good works. Doing = unto > > others as you would have them do unto you. Caring for one another = and > > doing without because you esteem others as more important than > > yourself. You don't have to put an name on that but if you must, = it's > > called Christianity! But that's the problem, when you teach those > > principals it's obvious that they are Christian teachings. They were > > good enough for the men and women who built this great country and > > opened the westward expansion, it'll do for me too! History is > > proving we were better with those beliefs than without them. I'll > > stand with the evidence. > > Thanks for your two cents, I respect your right to choose your own > > beliefs. > >=20 > > I apologize to the list for this departure, I'll endeavor to refrain > > in the future. > >=20 > > Frank (MB) <(((>< > >=20 > > The Sweeneys wrote: > >=20 > > Well heres my 2 cents... God in schools is great if all the > > kids are on the the same page, but not everybody believes in > > the same way . For instance I call God, Great Spirit and > > believe the trees , earth, and animals our my > > relatives....So what religion would schools teach is the > > question...... and I aint no liberal hippy either. > >=20 > > Respectfully, > > Mick > > Sierra Foothills > >=20 > > Frank wrote: > >=20 > > Lanney, > >=20 > > When you were in school, God was too! They hadn't > > kicked Him out yet because He wasn't "politically > > correct"! > > When I was a boy in school I learned the pledge of > > allegiance, prayer and the 10 commandments. A day > > didn't go by that someone wasn't lecturing me > > about morality. (mostly because I was a little > > hellion) And look at me now! A big strappin' > > mountain man! Wagh! > > All kidding aside, God's word sums it up best > > where it says: > >=20 > > "If my people, who are called by My name, will > > humble themselves and pray, I will hear from > > heaven and heal their land." > >=20 > > Our only hope has always been and will always be > > only in Him! > >=20 > > Medicine Bear <(((>< > >=20 > > Ratcliff wrote: > >=20 > > Want to hear something truly sad? A > > friend in Georgia ,who is an elementary > > school librarian, tells me that special > > security precautions are being taken > > today, including policemen at the > > school, because today is the anniversary > > of the suicide of Adolph Hitler. At an > > ELEMENTARY SCHOOL!! How is it that > > schools are becomming as tense as > > prisons? When I was in school about the > > only way you could get hurt there was > > tripping down some stairs, maybe getting > > into a fistfight...and, oh yeah, Mr. > > Jerome Cribbs' paddle from hell. And > > all I had to worry about besides that > > was homework, girls and Russian hydrogen > > bombs.What a world we live in.Lanney > > Ratcliff >=20 > --=20 > David & Evelyn Mullen > 202 Mesa Verde > Jemez Springs, NM 87025 > (505) 829-3212 > email: dmullen@jemez.com >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Way OFF TOPIC Date: 30 Apr 1999 23:06:59 EDT In a message dated 4/30/99 8:04:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rat@htcomp.net writes: ALRIGHT LANNEY. YOU GO BOY!!! and by the way, anybody have any thoughts about DISCIPLINE??? or lawyers who think that individual rights are superior to those of the group??? << David Mullen contends that this is not the proper place to discuss politics or religion and he might be right, but I don't think so...at least in the context of what triggered the discussions. Simply preaching your own religion or personal politics for their own sake would be inappropriate to this list, but I can understand why some folks chose to comment on what is going on in the world in that context. It is certainly as appropriate as endless discussions on cleaning gourds, what food safe oil is best to finish a wooden bowl or the pros and cons of ladies passing gas. Lanney Ratcliff >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Way OFF TOPIC Date: 30 Apr 1999 22:17:47 -0500 Well said, Laura Jean, well said. Mighty few of us would make a = detectable wart on Osborne Russell's behind and we might do well to = heed his words. I fear that Russell and many others of his time would = shed a tear for us. I know that I do. Lanney Ratcliff, SME ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 12:44 PM > I'll tie the OFF TOPIC into the fur trade, Sir. =20 >=20 > Osborne Russell, Journal of a Trapper, states, "A man should not = depart > from the way he has been brought up." =20 >=20 > It's a direct quote from the Bible, of course, but it was a belief = among > the mountaineers that opened this country, and it is a belief I share. = > I am Lanney Ratcliff's friend, a media specialist, in Georgia. In my > daughter's high school today, two-thirds of the children were absent.=20 > In a high school of 1,600 children, only 600 were present. >=20 > Our country is being held hostage by its lack of values. As Mr. Jim > Bridger would say, there is a "squall" in this country. =20 >=20 > I believe we live in a field of Time. I would certainly hate to think > of the mountaineers attending their annual summer gathering, at those > magical terrains where some of us have become pilgrims, hearing our > "news from the States." >=20