Re: MtMan-List: South of the Missouri and North of the Yellowstone</= TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF"> Walt,<BR> Come on down.<BR> YMOS<BR> Ole # 718<BR> ----------<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> I have been following the threads and it seems to me than much of the talk = about capote, winter provisions are talk that goes North of the Missouri wit= h the Capotes and South of the Yellowstone with the winter provisioning. &nb= sp;When posted the speculation of what would be taken in 1836 from either th= e rendezvous location or Fort Hall or Fort Union was specified for the purpo= se of the on going discussion. I think this is a good exercise and sho= uld be carried further.<BR> <BR> I also like seeing some of the list members on tv at Fort Bridger. It= would be fun to go there this year.<BR> <BR> Walt<BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE> </BODY> </HTML> --MS_Mac_OE_3064286615_37922_MIME_Part-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tobacco used as insect repellant (1700-1843)(other Date: 06 Feb 2001 06:48:46 -0700 Lanney, I could look at that diferently, since I am a General Contractor. Ha Ha YMOS Ole #718 ---------- >From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tobacco used as insect repellant (1700-1843)(other stuff) >Date: Mon, Feb 5, 2001, 9:02 PM > >>> > >"You don't miss a thing, do you Lanney? Sure hate to have you for an >emery." >RJames > >Dick >Would it surprise you to know that I am a commercial construction >inspector/engineering technician? I have told many contractors exactly what >you said......you don't want me for an enemy 'cause I have the hammer. Bad >test results or a negative inspection report can cause those guys more grief >and expense that it would for them to have done the work right in the first >place. I suppose it's a good thing that I am so lovable and easy going. > >I recently bought a copy of another of Kephart's books, "Our Southern >Highlanders", which is really interesting. I have just finished about two >chapters, but it looks very promising. I also bought another book called >"Camping and Woodcraft" that is by Nessmuk (George Washington Sears) whom >Kephart held in high reverence.....but not enough to prevent him from >lifting some of Sears' phrases and using them in his book. >Limber-go-Lightly pocket axe, for example. Going to the woods not to rough >it, but to smooth it for another. Kephart does routinely quote Sears >(with appropriate credit) but you can see a lot of the earlier book in >Kephart's work. Kephart is an excellent author with a great ability to make >involved tasks seem easy. He was a supremely skilled camper (primitive by >21th century standards, but modern when he was in the woods.) I wore out my >original copy of his 'Camping and Woodcraft' and had to buy another. Both >of his books and Nessmuk's book are available on Amazon.com, which is where >I got my copies. >YF&B >Lanney > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! Date: 06 Feb 2001 09:14:17 EST In a message dated 2/5/2001 11:23:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, Traphand@aol.com writes: << Many times have I made a cash and used it later on my return trip.And yes the powder still burns after beening dried out. >> Powder is (was) made in a wet paste and then dried. Greg Sefton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Monte Holder <sja028@mail.connect.more.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tobacco used as insect repellant (1700-1843)(otherstuff) Date: 06 Feb 2001 08:24:10 -0600 This wasn't as an insect repellant, but when I was a kid (35 or so years ago) I got stung by a wasp at my grandparents home, Grandpa pulled his pipe apart and used the tar and whatever else was in that black goo that had piled up there on the sting. I can't say if it helped or not, but it kind of fits here. Monte Holder ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Hunt" <jhunt1@one.net> Subject: MtMan-List: crooked knife--hoof knife ?? Date: 06 Feb 2001 09:45:08 -0500 I looked at the site that Dean put on about crooked knives. It seems as if todays hoof knife is close without the curl on the end. Would someone with more knowledge than I comment about this. Some years ago when I had horses I bought several old hoof knives at farm auctions with antler and bone handles. Maybe rework them to use as crooked knives if I can still find them in the barn. Some years ago I seen crooked knives for sale that looked like hoof knives. John (BIG JOHN) Hunt longhunter mountainman Southwest, Ohio ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@brier.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smallpox Date: 06 Feb 2001 10:03:10 -0500 My question is how was the inoculation done? Did they even have hypodermic needles in 1776? And Martin mentions: "When I was inoculated with the smallpox I took that delectable disease, the itch; it was given us, we supposed, in the infection." What the hell could that be!!!?! ************************* Magpie, smallpox innoculation is not done by injecting the virus. It is "scratched" into the skin (numerous small scaratches are made with a double pointed needle, and a drop of the liquid place on the scratches) and that is enough to infect the person being innoculated. We used to use dead or attenuated smallpox virus, but I am sure G. Washingtons men received the pus direct from other infected patients. That would account for many of them dying from the disease. I probably innoculated literally tens of thousands of USN and USMC personnel in 20 years in the Navy. Somewhere along the line, the WHO (World Health Organization) has decreedthat Smallpox has been irradicated, and vaccination no longer needed. HORSE HOCKEY!!! Saddam Hussien had Smallpox cultires... sorry... getting carried away here... Anyway, that is how it is/was done. Washington took a heck of a chance, as the idea was new, but it seemed to have worked well for the troops. Ad Miller Alderson, WV ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smallpox Date: 06 Feb 2001 10:13:27 EST Elkflea@aol.com writes: << vaccination was performed by scratching the arm of the 'patient' and rubbing dried scabs of cowpox into them. >> Anyone know how they kept, stored and transported the pox scabs or whatever material they used for the vaccination? Jefferson directed Lewis to take with him "some matter of the Kinpox," and I know that there was some problem with transporting it and keeping it active. Chuinard (Only One Died), states that Jefferson developed an effective means of transporting the vaccine matter by using a small corked vial inside a larger, water-filled tube. How long could they expect it to "keep" or be viable? I know they wanted the pure active virus from patients. Was the "matter" then held in a suspended/inactive state or did it need a nutrient material to sustain it? Lewis supposedly left for St. Louis with "Kinpox" material he received directly from Jefferson. Lewis' kinpox material, as Lewis put it, lost its "virtue." Apparently the virus material had died or was at least no longer viable. He asked for more vaccine from Jefferson, but according ton Chuinard, we have no record that he ever received it. Lewis was going to inoculate not only his men, but Indians he met. YMOS Ghosting Wolf ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smallpox Date: 06 Feb 2001 10:27:46 EST GHickman@aol.com writes: << Chuinard (Only One Died), states that Jefferson developed an effective means of transporting the vaccine >> The book by Chuinard should be "Only One Man Died". Sorry for the confusion. I would also highly recommend it to anyone interested in early medicine and/or the Lewis & Clark Corps of Discovery. Ghosting Wolf ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smallpox Date: 06 Feb 2001 11:11:57 EST --part1_86.6862f3e.27b17c4d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 2/5/01 10:56:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 SWcushing@aol.com writes: > book "Private Yankee Doodle"=E2=80=A6a first hand account of a=20 > soldier, Joseph Plumb Martin, in the Revolutionary War. It's an outstandin= g=20 >=20 Hello Magpie, Could you provide the ISBN # , publisher and author? I'm always looking for= =20 one more good book to read and it may interest others as welll.. Thanks Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes --part1_86.6862f3e.27b17c4d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated 2/5/01= 10:56:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 <BR>SWcushing@aol.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-= LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">book "Private Yankee Doodle= "=E2=80=A6a first hand account of a=20 <BR>soldier, Joseph Plumb Martin, in the Revolutionary War. It's an outstand= ing=20 <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>Hello Magpie, <BR> <BR>Could you provide the ISBN # , publisher and author? I'm always lo= oking for=20 <BR>one more good book to read and it may interest others as welll.. <BR> <BR>Thanks <BR> <BR>Y.M.O.S. <BR> <BR>C.T. Oakes</FONT></HTML> --part1_86.6862f3e.27b17c4d_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 'Maces' of beads Date: 06 Feb 2001 09:05:33 -0700 I'm confident that what was meant by 'maces' is actually 'masses'. I have a number of references to beads being sold in 'bunches' and in 'maces' or 'masses'. The earliest, at the NWC's Lac Isle a la Crosse post, dates to 4 June 1786. On an inventory of goods left behind at the post that day, we see 3 bunches beads and 28 "maces B[arley] Corn Beads". (Duckworth, 120-122) There were "2 Masses blue Beads" amongst the trade goods inventoried at the NWC's Fort Esperance on 29 Dec. 1793 (Wood & Thiessen, 324). F.-A. Laroque gives "6 Masses B.C. Beads" (and a lot of other stuff) to the Crow chiefs at the Mandan villages on 27 June 1805 (Wood & Thiessen, 171), and "40 B[unches]. blue Beads, 2 Mass Barley corn d[itt]o" as part of his payment for a horse on 15 August 1805. (Wood & Thiessen, 183) My last note of 'masses' of beads comes from 1805, when Alexander Henry the Younger records that his payment for a Hidatsa horse included "1 mass B.C. beads" (and a bunch of other stuff that's not relevant to this discussion). So, what the heck is a mass? My gut feeling is that it is a large hank of beads. It's not the same as a 'bunch', since we see 'masses' and 'bunches' on the same inventory lists, but it does suggest that they are both being sold already strung; at other times, beads are measured out in pounds or, more rarely, sold individually. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 'Maces' of beads Date: 06 Feb 2001 14:57:55 EST In a message dated 2/6/1 09:15:43 AM, agottfre@telusplanet.net writes: <<So, what the heck is a mass? My gut feeling is that it is a large hank of beads.>> Angela - I still buy beads today from from an importer. They are larger beads -though not necessarily large hole, as I wish they were. In this case a mass is 1000 beads, usually strung 50 to 100 to a string and all strings tied together at the ends to form the "mass". Your friend Dick James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: H&H Barrels Date: 06 Feb 2001 15:58:58 EST In a message dated 1/26/01 6:21:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, BrayHaven@aol.com writes: << Anyone know what ever happend to H&H barrels. I toured their plant in Ocala, FL some years ago and bought a few barrels from them that shoot great. They moved away shortly after that. Did they go under, or just break camp and move to new trappings? >> They did make some nice barrels. They became DeHass, moved to MO, got REAL independant about shipping barrels & went under. Not sure, but I think Moody wound up with their machines. MN ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dennis Fisher <difisher@yahoo.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Men and the Fur Trade Date: 06 Feb 2001 15:46:25 -0800 (PST) Just received volume one of Mountain Men and the Fur Trade. Looks great and should keep me occupied for a while. For the rest of you ordered them, it looks like the book is in the mail. Dennis Fisher __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re:"Private Yankee Doodle" Date: 06 Feb 2001 19:15:47 EST In a message dated 2/6/01 8:13:11 AM, CTOAKES@aol.com writes: << Could you provide the ISBN # , publisher and author? I'm always looking for one more good book to read and it may interest others as welll.. >> Sure can CT.... ISBN#0-915992-10-8, publisher: Eastern Acorn Press, author: JP Martin, and edited by George E Scheer. There are several different books out on Joseph Plumb Martin, some written for children, but this is written from his original narrative/notes. The editor states: "I have neither abridged, nor changed a word or phrase he wrote..." This is very good stuff...... Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 'Maces' of beads Date: 06 Feb 2001 19:21:35 EST In a message dated 2/6/01 11:59:29 AM, SWzypher@aol.com writes: << Angela - I still buy beads today from from an importer. They are larger beads -though not necessarily large hole, as I wish they were. In this case a mass is 1000 beads, usually strung 50 to 100 to a string >> Thanks Angela, Dick, and all, for the low down on a Maces/Masses of beads. I picked up the word at "thebeadsite.com" ...they have a list of beads that L&C took with them there.... interesting that the "famous", black, flowery like, Lewis and Clark bead ain't mentioned. Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smallpox/the itch Date: 06 Feb 2001 19:47:55 EST In a message dated 2/6/01 7:02:46 AM, admiller@brier.net writes: << Anyway, that is how it is/was done. Washington took a heck of a chance, as the idea was new, but it seemed to have worked well for the troops. >> Thanks Ad...shoulda been able to figure that out. I mentioned Martin also getting the "itch" which he thought they received with/when the inoculation. A plague all in his detachment suffered. (crabs?) Finally months later they were able to obtain "a sufficient quantity of brimstone (sulphur) and tallow" for the outside and "mix a plenty of hot whiskey toddy "for the inside... "...but we killed the itch and we were satisfied, for it had almost killed us." Freezing, starving, and being shot at sounds like a minor set back....<G> Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: H&H Barrels Date: 06 Feb 2001 20:03:31 EST > They became DeHass, moved to MO, got REAL > independant about shipping barrels & went under. DeHaas still makes barrels and I believe is one of the top suppliers for Track of the Wolf. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 'Maces' of beads Date: 06 Feb 2001 20:16:10 EST In a message dated 2/6/01 4:23:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, SWcushing@aol.com writes: << interesting that the "famous", black, flowery like, Lewis and Clark bead ain't mentioned. >> Most sources I've talked with, and "The History Of Beads" by Dubin show similarly constructed beads appearing around 1850. Even though they are called Lewis & Clark Beads, no source has ever been able to document that they were ever carried by the Corps Of Discovery. Barn ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Two Crows" <dbrown@wavegate.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Nessmuk and Kephart Date: 06 Feb 2001 21:00:37 -0500 Now you're getting down to it. Nessmuk is the father of modern outdoor journalism, and Kephart is the chronicler of real Scotch-Irish southern mountain folk. There are none better in literature. Kephart, alas, died of drink. Nessmuk died, that is sure, but of what, I don't recall. Add to these Ned Roberts and you've made a great start on understanding the things which have passed, and which might be retained. db David Brown & Kristin Poulsen Wollendael 4419 Gore-Subligna Rd. Summerville, GA 30747 "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." --Benjamin Franklin 1759 dbrown@wavegate.com http://www.2crows2.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ethan Sudman" <EthanSudman@home.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Bye all Date: 06 Feb 2001 20:40:22 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C0907D.06E29C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all. I will be leaving the list permanently, partially because I cannot keep = up with it (and for various personal reasons). I know that some will be = quite happy to see me go, and I have gotten some very rude e-mails = recently. Thanks, Ethan Sudman (ethansudman@home.com) ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C0907D.06E29C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello all.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will be leaving the list permanently, = partially=20 because I cannot keep up with it (and for various personal reasons). I = know that=20 some will be quite happy to see me go, and I have gotten some very rude = e-mails=20 recently.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,<BR>Ethan Sudman (<A=20 href=3D"mailto:ethansudman@home.com">ethansudman@home.com</A>)</FONT></DI= V></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C0907D.06E29C00-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 'Maces' of beads Date: 06 Feb 2001 21:54:54 EST In a message dated 2/6/1 05:23:39 PM, SWcushing@aol.com writes: <<Lewis and Clark bead ain't mentioned. >> Magpie - these exotic bead colors and descriptions that we hear so "knowingly" today have been ginned up in recent times for the convienience of the contemporary. "Cheyenne Pink", "Pony Trader Blue", "Greasies" are colors I had never heard or read about until the last 20 - 30 years. Old documents refer to colors like Blue, Green, and White. Challenge, anyone?? Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@brier.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smallpox/the itch Date: 06 Feb 2001 21:58:36 -0500 hehe.. yep, Magpie, the "itch" refered to crabs and other types of body vermin.... fleas included... Ad Miller Alderson, WV ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) Subject: MtMan-List: Coyote problem Date: 06 Feb 2001 22:40:02 -0500 (EST) USA Today, Tues., 02-06-01, p.10A California: Los Angeles -- An elusive band of coyotes has taken over the Pierce College farm, killing dozens of stray cats and threatening livestock. A construction project has "landlocked" the coyotes, but officials at the Woodland Hills campus and wildlife experts have been unable to locate the den and remove the animals. We're just a big cafeteria for the coyotes, said Bill Lander, the college's resident farmer. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Michigan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyote problem Date: 06 Feb 2001 22:45:20 EST In a message dated 2/6/1 08:40:42 PM, JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net writes: << An elusive band of coyotes has taken over the Pierce College farm, . . . . . .>> Who was there first? RJ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) Subject: MtMan-List: ... OT sorta... but humorous Date: 06 Feb 2001 22:54:50 -0500 (EST) PICKLES comic strip (Detroit News, Tues. 02-06-01, p.6F) [Man standing outdoors next to his dog] I think there's a little of the wild and untamed in all of us. There's something inside that hears and yearns to answer The Call of the Wild. I can hear it right now. I can smell it, too (sniff, sniff). Oh, shoot! I'm steppin' in it! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Michigan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 'Maces' of beads Date: 06 Feb 2001 22:41:33 -0500 check with mrs lee good in claremore okla at the davis museum---she will set you straight--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 'Maces' of beads Date: 06 Feb 2001 22:32:51 -0500 mrs good is quite an authority on beeds from the davis museum in clarimore okla---give her a call she has lots of data on the subject--- nuff said--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Possum Hunter" <icurapossum_hunter2@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyote problem Date: 06 Feb 2001 23:08:08 -0800 Why not just let the Police sniper team come for practice? or...Better yet, a good old fashioned black powder coyote shoot! That would be FUN :-) Possum ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randal J Bublitz <randybublitz@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyote problem Date: 06 Feb 2001 20:28:56 -0800 I attended (and graduated) L.A. Pierce College in '79. The campus has always been 'landlocked' . The Campus is in the middle of the San Fernando Valley. It is surrounded by housing and industrial/business areas. When I was there they were plagued by roaving bands of domestic dogs taking down sheep, etc.... The College has an agriculture unit, pigs, cows, sheep. Being in L.A., I'm sure they are 'sensitive' about harming the cute, fuzzy varmints. I used to run the cross country course regularly (which ran through the AG. units, etc... ). There isn't all that much space there. I can't figure why they can't track the 'yotes down? Leave it to the media to create a mountain out of a mole hill........ hardtack Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnel fat? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@brier.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyote problem Date: 06 Feb 2001 23:40:09 -0500 My son works on a farm here in Alderson, WV, and they killed a Coyote the other day taht was going after some of the new born lambs... Who'd have though a coyote problem this far north!! Ad Miller Alderson WV ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bye all Date: 07 Feb 2001 00:00:51 EST Ethan, I for one will be sorry to see you go; you asked good questions and helped restore some of my faith in youth of today. If the volume of material is too much for you to wade through, maybe try changing your subscription to 'digest' form, and then there is only one mail containing all the posts to download each day, and you can peruse it at your convenience. As to the rude e-mails you mentioned, this place is just a slice of life, and even though some have no common courtesy it will only serve to thicken your skin for future encounters. If you do have to go, so be it. We'll miss you. Remember to keep your eyes on the skyline and watch your backtrail. Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Two Crows" <dbrown@wavegate.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Coyote problem Date: 07 Feb 2001 07:02:05 -0500 Won't say it's not happening because I don't know. Will say that around here, we have coyotes by the dozen but almost never see one. The predations people blame on coyotes are usually done by feral or unrestrained pet dogs. I'd rather see the authorities put an end to loose dogs first. Coyotes hunt nocturnally and live on rabbits and other small furries. So what if they eat a bunch of cats? Cats on the loose are an environmental plague. Also, it's very bad luck to kill brother coyote. My $.02 Two Crows David Brown & Kristin Poulsen Wollendael 4419 Gore-Subligna Rd. Summerville, GA 30747 "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." --Benjamin Franklin 1759 dbrown@wavegate.com http://www.2crows2.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyote problem Date: 07 Feb 2001 07:17:37 EST In a message dated 2/6/01 10:40:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net writes: << An elusive band of coyotes has taken over the Pierce College farm, killing dozens of stray cats >> Earning their keep for once!!! Stray cats are as problematic as coyotes! -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: South of the Missouri and North of the Date: 07 Feb 2001 07:20:08 -0700 This is the message you get when you subscribe to the list: "This mailing list is for discussions related to the history of the mountain men in the 1800-1850 period in the Rocky Mountain West, and in related living history activities." So what's your beef, Walt? Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off topic Cat & Coyote problem Date: 07 Feb 2001 09:40:59 EST --part1_10.877b1a2.27b2b87b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/6/01 11:44:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, admiller@brier.net writes: > Who'd have > though a coyote problem this far north!! > We have packs of them up here in NW New York. I had some go after my wifes sheep a year ago. And that was in the middle of the day. I have also run into packs when I was deer hunting so at least up here they are not totally night hunters. As to the killing of cats, well the Dept of Environmental Conservation warns folks around here that it is not just coons and fox that are rabid, wild cats are now carriers and kids are more likely to try to pet a cat then a fox so they may be more of a danger to humans. Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes --part1_10.877b1a2.27b2b87b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/6/01 11:44:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>admiller@brier.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Who'd have <BR>though a coyote problem this far north!! <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>We have packs of them up here in NW New York. I had some go after my wifes <BR>sheep a year ago. And that was in the middle of the day. I have also run <BR>into packs when I was deer hunting so at least up here they are not totally <BR>night hunters. <BR> <BR>As to the killing of cats, well the Dept of Environmental Conservation warns <BR>folks around here that it is not just coons and fox that are rabid, wild cats <BR>are now carriers and kids are more likely to try to pet a cat then a fox so <BR>they may be more of a danger to humans. <BR> <BR>Y.M.O.S. <BR> <BR>C.T. Oakes</FONT></HTML> --part1_10.877b1a2.27b2b87b_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Harpers Ferry Date: 07 Feb 2001 08:11:13 -0700 Gentelmen, Just purchased one for a freind made by Glen Jones, beautiful gun. paid 1400.00. Have a question, I need a rifle re boared and rifeled to a larger caliber, does anyone know who does that? it's an 1886 Winchester YMOS Ole # 718 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Coyote problem Date: 07 Feb 2001 14:55:08 EST In a message dated 2/7/1 04:55:21 AM, dbrown@wavegate.com writes: <<Also, it's very bad luck to kill brother coyote. >> Glad to hear that one. We had one for a pet. Really loved that little animal. RJ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Coyote problem Date: 07 Feb 2001 15:08:33 EST Living in the hills in West Los Angeles, a VERY populated area surrounded by undeveloped canyons, and not too terribly far from where Pierce College is located, we have mule deer, raccoons, red foxes and coyotes in our yard almost every night, and sometimes the coyote stragglers will be out in the morning as late as 9 or so. It's a good thing we don't let our cats out; seen too many of them in the mouths of coyotes running down the street, and most of the cats aren't wild, but family pets that have been snatched. Oh well, the coyotes were definitely here first, and so they'll stay. Just thought I'd throw this out in response to those that think just because they don't see these critters often they aren't there... Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "wayne anderson" <wanders66@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyote problem Date: 07 Feb 2001 21:15:39 I believe coyote are protected in Calif. and shooting one gets you a major fine! At least that's what my son says about to ones that are continually raiding at his house. .02 Wayne not just let the Police sniper team come for practice? or...Better yet, >a good old fashioned black powder coyote shoot! That would be FUN :-) > >Possum _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: list....... Date: 07 Feb 2001 16:49:29 EST In a message dated 2/5/01 12:57:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, SWzypher@aol.com writes: << -----(stuff deleted)----A lot of time and space is wasted with what should be "chat room" activity. Too deep for me, but can anyone initiate such as suggested? >> We already do this. IRC Server "irc.chatcircuit.com" on port 6667 Channel #fur_traders Sunday and Tuesday evenings 8:00 p.m. till ? Longshot "Longshot's Rendezvous Homepage" (Newly Redesigned) http://members.aol.com/lodgepole/longshot.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Bye all Date: 07 Feb 2001 19:22:25 -0600 Sorry to see you leave Ethan. I know what you mean about lots of = posts. I'm on 4 other lists, and I was downloading about 80 messages a = night. I switched a couple of the to digest mode, and it made a HUGE = difference. As far as rude emails go, I'm sorry to hear that. Lots of folks will = say stuff over email they wouldn't say to your face, although, that's = not always true. Some folks are just gonna be that way. So, you = shrug, consider the source, and go on. Take care. Watch yer topknot. Todd/MO ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) Subject: MtMan-List: Coyotes (more info) Date: 07 Feb 2001 23:53:45 -0500 (EST) Coyotes move into Westland - 5/3/99 Address:http://detnews.com/1999/wayne/9905/03/05030062.htm In 43 years here since moving out of Detroit in '57, haven't seen any 'yotes yet. have seen a few ground hogs (woodchucks?), a few possum, and a group of three BIG racoons. the horse almost stepped on a well concealed fawn once, saw the mother doe a few times. haven't seen a buck in the field yet, but have observed the evidence of their activity (tree rubs, ground scrapes). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Michigan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bye all Date: 08 Feb 2001 08:33:30 EST In a message dated 2/7/2001 8:23:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, farseer@swbell.net writes: << As far as rude emails go, I'm sorry to hear that. Lots of folks will say stuff over email they wouldn't say to your face, although, that's not always true. Some folks are just gonna be that way. So, you shrug, consider the source, and go on. >> This is true. So, does one's true nature come out in e-mails or are they just more agressive with no chance of retribution (physical)? Both? Greg ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe <gnoe39@yahoo.com> Subject: MtMan-List: "ITCH" Date: 08 Feb 2001 06:57:52 -0800 (PST) Taken from Websters 1913 Dictionary Itch insect (Zo�l.), a small parasitic mite (Sarcoptes scabei) which burrows and breeds beneath the human skin, thus causing the disease known as the itch. See Illust. in Append. � Itch mite . (Zo�l.) Same as Itch insect, above. Also, other similar mites affecting the lower animals, as the horse and ox. � ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bye all Date: 08 Feb 2001 12:15:14 EST In a message dated 2/8/01 5:34:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, BrayHaven@aol.com writes: << So, does one's true nature come out in e-mails or are they just more agressive with no chance of retribution (physical)? Both? >> D) All of the above <G>, same as in a car..... ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Brandl <jbrandl@wyoming.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyote problem Date: 08 Feb 2001 23:50:08 -0700 Sorry to butt in, but the list has really became a chat line. Please limit some of the chatter. Know it is not difficult to delete, but 30-40 messages that don't have much to do with history is a bit much. thank you joe Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455-2440 New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Bye all Date: 08 Feb 2001 18:06:20 -0600 =3D) I agree. 'Course, it's entirely possible, at least I hope so, that = I'm going to meet some of the folks on this list, so bein'a complete = pratt might have some longterm re-percussions. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of > LivingInThePast@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:15 AM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bye all >=20 >=20 > In a message dated 2/8/01 5:34:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,=20 > BrayHaven@aol.com=20 > writes: >=20 > << So, does one's true nature come out in e-mails or are they just=20 > more agressive with no chance of retribution (physical)? Both? >> >=20 > D) All of the above <G>, same as in a car..... >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ikon@mindspring.com Subject: MtMan-List: Dick James Utah Relative Date: 08 Feb 2001 19:12:41 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09203.1BD25420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dick, Would you email me at ikon@mindspring.com. Had to restore the hardrive = today due to a virus and lost everything. Talk to you soon, Frank ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09203.1BD25420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dick,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Would you email me at <A=20 href=3D"mailto:ikon@mindspring.com">ikon@mindspring.com</A>. Had = to restore=20 the hardrive today due to a virus and lost everything.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Talk to you soon,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Frank</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09203.1BD25420-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dick James Utah Relative Date: 08 Feb 2001 20:37:28 EST got cut off in the middle of a message to you. Wanted to tell you of several very cordial letters from Dane (Martin) - one of four that run that "Chips" bunch. Anyway I got the tape ordered and poked around and found I already had the book.. . . . bought it three years ago in Boise and then very cleverly hid it from myself. Never really looked at it before but I could see right off where some of my mistakes originated. I tried to preserve the little sharp edges and pressure flake them so I ended up knocking them off and ending up with a fat body. I didn't know about building platforms or percussion flaking and "stuff". The book I had was by Lester Griswold from the 1920s. Loved the book but didn't learn the real stuff. It was a case of something is better than nothing. Don't know why I am carrying on about knapping. It is BLOODY COLD here and I'm not going out to play in the rocks - let alone going on safari to central Utah to looke for raw materials. Gotta tell you if I ever get so I can make the point I want, the style will be very similar to the one you sent me. Carol says "Bean Time" (actually bean sprout as we are having Chinese) Cheers Dick ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dick James Utah Relative Date: 08 Feb 2001 21:03:58 EST Sorry, folks. I accidentaly put a part of a personal message on the hist_text screen. Appologyzing for the clutter. Dick James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyote problem Date: 08 Feb 2001 22:49:38 -0500 Addison Miller wrote: > > My son works on a farm here in Alderson, WV, and they killed a Coyote the > other day taht was going after some of the new born lambs... Who'd have > though a coyote problem this far north!! You should see the damage they do "this far north," like NOT having any pheasants, killing fawns in the spring, etc., etc. Fred -- Failure is not an option, it comes pre-installed with your Windoze software. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyote problem Date: 09 Feb 2001 09:58:10 EST --part1_21.73cba02.27b55f82_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coyotes are found from coast to coast and as far north as Canada --part1_21.73cba02.27b55f82_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Coyotes are found from coast to coast and as far north as Canada</FONT></HTML> --part1_21.73cba02.27b55f82_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: South of the Missouri and North of the Yellowstone Date: 09 Feb 2001 08:07:02 -0700 > "This mailing list is for discussions related to the history of the mountain > men in the 1800-1850 period in the Rocky Mountain West, and in related > living history activities." > > So what's your beef, Walt? > > Your humble & obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred Hi Angela, No real beef here. I watched the elk and buffalo across the way this morning at sunrise. For those people who are interested in the history between the missouri and yellowstone rivers. Fort Union is having there big event June 14 through the 17th of this year 2001. Did you know Fort Union had a cast iron foundry? It will be fun to followup on this information this spring. Walt ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyote problem Date: 09 Feb 2001 11:09:55 EST TrapRJoe@aol.com writes: << Coyotes are found from coast to coast and as far north as Canada >> All the way up into Alaska too. YMOS Gene Hickman ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyote problem Date: 09 Feb 2001 14:27:58 EST In a message dated 2/9/1 09:11:39 AM, GHickman@aol.com writes: <<< Coyotes are found from coast to coast and as far north as Canada >> All the way up into Alaska too.>> WOW! How can I sleep nights knowing this?? RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tom roberts <troberts@gdi.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! Date: 09 Feb 2001 21:32:45 -0500 Larry, I've been (amongst the thousand other things) hoping to do some study on this topic, bein's I live amongst these little winged devils for most of the year. Right now I use a hand-stitched net shaped like an inverted box which is made of a very tight but breatheable material called scrim. It is 100% cotton and unbleached. It is extremely light and highly effective. It's intended purpose is for the backing of curtains. I have no documentation, to head off the inevitable question, but I am hoping to eventually determine what (or if) material of this type would have been at least commonly available at the time and places of interest. Tom larry pendleton wrote: > > Linda wrote: > Yes, because I was using a nylon. Later made one of cheese cloth, but > wondered > what was the real facts of netting. > > Linda, > I don't know exactly. We have researched the same thing and can't come up > with anything further. I do know that Lewis and Clark carried what they > called 'muquito biers'. > If anyone has any further info, Nona and I would love to hear it. > > Pendleton > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Links List - ML, Buckskinning, Trekking Sites Date: 10 Feb 2001 20:26:42 EST I found this list of links today, and thought it was an awesome source to link to historical info, supplies, weapons, clothing, accoutrements, publications, personal web pages and on and on. If this type of posting is improper, please accept my apology. Barney <A HREF="http://www.coon-n-crockett.org/linklist.htm"> http://www.coon-n-crockett.org/linklist.htm</A> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ikon@mindspring.com Subject: MtMan-List: Georgia COHT Hog Hunt Date: 11 Feb 2001 08:35:32 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C09405.9886EAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Attended the Georgia COHT first ever hog hunt yesterday and had a very = good time. Did not see any hogs but did find some very good hog sign. = I would not have been starvin if it was 150 years ago as I had a few = very nice shots at deer, had a mess of turkeys sneaking around a few = good shots at monster woodcocks just sittin there. Found a beautiful bend in the Etowah that I just had to sit down and = take in the moment. It could have been 1801 in that moment and I do not = think anything would have been different. I did however wonder, If I = had shot a hog, how in the hmmmm was I going to get it out of the woods. = Better have been a small one. As usual in Georgia, 1pm when we met up with the other hunters the heat = was a bit up there. We sat around and talked of important stuff like guns, gear and other = events. We ended the afternoon with shooting our front loaders at a can = on a stick a ways off. To my surprise, I pegged it. All in all it was = a great day. ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C09405.9886EAE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Attended the Georgia COHT first ever = hog hunt=20 yesterday and had a very good time. Did not see any hogs but did = find some=20 very good hog sign. I would not have been starvin if it was 150 = years ago=20 as I had a few very nice shots at deer, had a mess of turkeys sneaking = around a=20 few good shots at monster woodcocks just sittin there.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Found a beautiful bend in the Etowah = that I just=20 had to sit down and take in the moment. It could have been 1801 in = that=20 moment and I do not think anything would have been = different. I did=20 however wonder, If I had shot a hog, how in the hmmmm was I going to get = it out=20 of the woods. Better have been a small one.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As usual in Georgia, 1pm when we met = up with the=20 other hunters the heat was a bit up there.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We sat around and talked of important = stuff like=20 guns, gear and other events. We ended the afternoon with shooting = our=20 front loaders at a can on a stick a ways off. To my surprise, I = pegged=20 it. All in all it was a great day.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C09405.9886EAE0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Wagon Wheels Date: 11 Feb 2001 08:43:17 -0700 Gentelmen, Here is a source for wagon wheels,plans,hubs, parts, anything to do with the carriage trade. Witmer Coach Shop 717-656-3411 They are verry resonable! YMOS Ole # 718 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Gun for sale Date: 11 Feb 2001 08:48:49 -0700 Hello the Camp, I would like to sell 1760 replica Lehigh County Pennsylvania Rifle in 45 cal made by Dennis Mulford it is tiger stripe Maple/relief carved, wooden slider it was the 6th gun he made. Dennis was the maker that inspired a lot of us to build including Glen Jones. I am asking 2500.00 Contact me off list at olebjensen@earthlink.net ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Iambrainey@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: problem? Date: 12 Feb 2001 20:30:13 EST Haven't gotten anything in days. List problem? Ben ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: problem? Date: 12 Feb 2001 21:32:02 EST In a message dated 2/12/01 5:31:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, Iambrainey@aol.com writes: << Haven't gotten anything in days. List problem? Ben >> It's workin' on this end Ben. Must be that the most of the boys are out freezin' their fannies off or stuck in the cabin doin' honey-do's <GGG>. Barney in warm, wet (for a welcome change) Southern California ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Computer Virus Information from a Friend! Date: 12 Feb 2001 21:24:39 -0600 Here is some data regarding the computer virus that has apparently infected Pat Quilter's computer. This is from McAfee, which I use to help me avoid such problems. Lanney Ratcliff > > I thought you would be interested in knowing about this computer Virus... > > Name: VBS/SST@MM > > Characteristics: > AVERT first discovered this virus family in August of 2000. Our advanced > technology and detection techniques provided customers with accurate > protection from this new variant prior to its release, starting more than > six months ago with the 4092 DAT release. Users are reminded to regularly > update to the current engine and DATs to ensure maximum protection against > today's threats. > Note: Ensure that the extensions .VBS is included when scanning. This is a > default setting with product version 4.5 and later. > This script was created by a worm generating tool. As such, the > particulars of its actions may vary. The most common variant functions as > follows. > When run, the encrypted script copies itself to the WINDOWS directory as > "AnnaKournikova.jpg.vbs". It attempts to mail a separate email message, > using MAPI messaging, to all recipients in the Windows Address Book using > the following information: > Subject: Here you have, ;o)Body:Hi: Check This! > Attachment: AnnaKournikova.jpg.vbs > It also creates a registry key and key values. The script refers to these > values to check if the mailing routine has already taken place: > HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Software\OnTheFlyHKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Software\OnTheFly > \mailed=(1 for yes) > On January 26th, the script attempts to connect to the web site > http://www.dynabyte.nl > > <I>Both Network Associates and McAfee.com refer to the virus commonly > known as the "Anna Kournikova Virus" and/or the "Anna Virus" in order to > identify a specific public virus threat. Network Associates and McAfee.com > intend no reference to the actual person whose name has unfortunately > become associated with the Internet virus.</I> > > To check your system for this Virus, and to learn how to protect yourself > from computer viruses, visit the McAfee.com Clinic at > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=2103. > > For complete information on this Virus, view McAfee.com's Virus > Information Library listing at > http://vil.mcafee.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=99011. > > This email was sent to you by Lanney Ratcliff > > > > -------------------- > Aux Aliments de Pays! > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:27:17 -0600 Date: 12 Feb 2001 20:27:26 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C0953A.93422000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I forwarded to the list some data regarding this virus. The subject = line will read "Computer virus information from a friend" and is from = McAfee. =20 Lanney Ratclif Pat Quilter has a virus on his computer that is sending itself to = everyone on his mail list. It will say something like "Hi, check this = out." inviting you to open the attachment. If you do you will have the = same thing happen to your computer - so don't open it - just delete it. Good luck Bill C ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C0953A.93422000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I forwarded to the list some data regarding this = virus. =20 The subject line will read "Computer virus information from a friend" = and is=20 from McAfee. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney Ratclif</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Pat Quilter has a virus on his computer that is = sending itself=20 to everyone on his mail list. It will say something like "Hi, check this = out."=20 inviting you to open the attachment. If you do you will have the same = thing=20 happen to your computer - so don't open it - just delete = it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Good luck</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Bill C</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C0953A.93422000-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John L. Allen" <jlallen@wyoming.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 12 Feb 2001 22:30:23 -0700 Ho, the list. This seems like a good time to remind everyone: NEVER open a file attachment from someone you don't know. In order to affect your systems viruses must be executable files (.exe is most common but there are others). The best way to avoid a virus (after, of course, installing an anti-virus system AND keeping it updated) is to just delete attachments unless you are absolutely certain they are legitimate and from someone you know and trust. Free advice is usually worth just what you pay for it--but forewarned is forearmed and this falls into the category of watching the skyline and your back trail. John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 Fax: (307) 742-0886 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Computer Virus Information from a Friend! Date: 13 Feb 2001 00:48:15 -0500 Lanney Ratcliff wrote: > > Here is some data regarding the computer virus that has apparently infected > Pat Quilter's computer. This is from McAfee, which I use to help me avoid > such problems. > Lanney Ratcliff > > > > I thought you would be interested in knowing about this computer Virus... > > > > Name: VBS/SST@MM > > > > Characteristics: > > AVERT first discovered this virus family in August of 2000. Our advanced [snip] I'll put my Systems Admin. hat on for a min. If you don't want to be hit with a virus or a Cracker breaking into your 'puter, the BEST thing you can do is replace WinBloze with Linux, the SuSE distro is the best, IMHO. If you're not inclined to do that, then simply DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES open any file attachements....PERIOD, you WON'T get hit with a virus! Install ZoneAlarm for security. It's not a guarantee, but it's better than nothing. Yes, EVERYTHING from MicroSoft is VERY badly designed and written, but you DON'T have to invite trouble! Now I'll go back to my corner where it's nice and quiet. :) Fred -- Failure is not an option, it comes pre-installed with your Windoze software. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randal J Bublitz <randybublitz@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 12 Feb 2001 21:55:48 -0800 I received an infected e-mail...AND it had my friends name as the sender..... of course it wasn't his fault..... BEWARE of any strange looking e-mail . Luckily I heard about this on the radio today, and then when checking my e-mail tonight..THERE it was...I just hit delete, problem solved..for me anyways, and anyone on my e-mail list. hardtack Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnel fat? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@brier.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Computer Virus Information from a Friend! Date: 13 Feb 2001 01:03:10 -0500 Install ZoneAlarm for security. > > Fred Where can I find Zone Alarm?? Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "TrapRJohn" <traprjon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Computer Virus Information from a Friend! Date: 13 Feb 2001 03:05:23 -0500 Hallo Brothers, Here is the link to Zone Alarm. http://www.zonelabs.com/ You may be interested to know that this is the only firewall program that blocks outgoing messages from advertising robots in your 'puter that send out your personal information. I've been using it for over a month, and you would be surprised at the stuff that goes in and out of your 'puter with out your knowledge, until you install Zone Alarm. For what it's worth, I think it is a great program!!! Good Luck Brothers. John Enos TrapRJohn - YMHS - traprjon@mediaone.net - AMM - White Mountain Party "Don't Compromise Your Civil Rights, They are Yours! Stand Up for What's Right!" -- TrapRJohn, Free Trapper -- "No Free Man Shall Ever be Debarred the Use of Arms!" -- Thomas Jefferson -- "The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance!" -- General John Stark -- "Any People that would give up Liberty for a Little Temporary Safety, Deserves Neither Liberty nor Safety!" -- Benjamin Franklin -- ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 1:03 AM Friend! > Install ZoneAlarm for security. > > > Fred > > Where can I find Zone Alarm?? > > Ad Miller > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Book Date: 13 Feb 2001 09:21:38 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0959E.5E249100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I just got back from the library... Picked up=20 "Wind Walker" (the final saga of Titus Bass) from Terry C Johnston. I am supposed to be building a pipe hawk today.. Decisions, = decisions..<G> D ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0959E.5E249100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.100" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, I just got back from the = library... Picked up=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Wind Walker" (the final saga of Titus = Bass) from=20 Terry C Johnston.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I am supposed to be building a = pipe hawk=20 today.. Decisions, decisions..<G></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR> </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0959E.5E249100-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Darwin award Date: 13 Feb 2001 09:35:50 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C095A0.59D967E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just heard on the news that a kid was convicted of manslaughter after = he loaded a M.L. with ashes & cig butts and fired it at a friend at a = party... Autopsy results found that 3 of the butts penetraed the kids = ribcage, killing him cold fish dead... The convicted kid said it was a = practical joke.. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C095A0.59D967E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.100" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I just heard on the news that a kid was = convicted=20 of manslaughter after he loaded a M.L. with ashes & cig butts and = fired it=20 at a friend at a party... Autopsy results found that 3 of the butts = penetraed=20 the kids ribcage, killing him cold fish dead... The convicted kid said = it was a=20 practical joke..</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C095A0.59D967E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul W. Jones" <pwjones@excelonline.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Computer Virus Information from a Friend! Date: 13 Feb 2001 08:40:24 -0600 TrapRJohn: Thanks for the posting about Zone Alarm. Have been looking for a good firewall program and intend to check this one out. However, I have a question. As some of the personal info that goes out relates to on-going relationships, for example, I pay several of my credit cards on-line, and the bank computers need to verify certain info from my account which is stored on "cookies" in my computer, or when I buy a book from Amazon their computer uses "cookies" about my account when I am paying for a purchase-----can you pick and choose which cookies you let go out (and in) as I do not wish to disrupt this type of computer/account? Regards, Paul ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul W. Jones" <pwjones@excelonline.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Darwin award Date: 13 Feb 2001 08:41:09 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C09598.B65D2860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Those stupid Yankee kids-------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: D. Miles=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Cc: scalpdance@egroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:35 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Darwin award I just heard on the news that a kid was convicted of manslaughter = after he loaded a M.L. with ashes & cig butts and fired it at a friend = at a party... Autopsy results found that 3 of the butts penetraed the = kids ribcage, killing him cold fish dead... The convicted kid said it = was a practical joke.. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C09598.B65D2860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Those stupid Yankee = kids--------</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:deforge1@bright.net" title=3Ddeforge1@bright.net>D. = Miles</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com"=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com>hist_text@lists.xmission.com</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:scalpdance@egroups.com"=20 title=3Dscalpdance@egroups.com>scalpdance@egroups.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 13, = 2001 8:35=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Darwin = award</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I just heard on the news that a kid = was convicted=20 of manslaughter after he loaded a M.L. with ashes & cig butts and = fired it=20 at a friend at a party... Autopsy results found that 3 of the butts = penetraed=20 the kids ribcage, killing him cold fish dead... The convicted kid said = it was=20 a practical joke..</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C09598.B65D2860-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Darwin award Date: 13 Feb 2001 09:44:39 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C095A1.952E80E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think he was from the South somewhere.... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Paul W. Jones=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 9:41 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Darwin award Those stupid Yankee kids-------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: D. Miles=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Cc: scalpdance@egroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:35 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Darwin award I just heard on the news that a kid was convicted of manslaughter = after he loaded a M.L. with ashes & cig butts and fired it at a friend = at a party... Autopsy results found that 3 of the butts penetraed the = kids ribcage, killing him cold fish dead... The convicted kid said it = was a practical joke.. ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C095A1.952E80E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.100" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think he was from the South=20 somewhere....</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dpwjones@excelonline.com = href=3D"mailto:pwjones@excelonline.com">Paul W.=20 Jones</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 13, = 2001 9:41=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Darwin = award</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Those stupid Yankee=20 kids--------</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Ddeforge1@bright.net = href=3D"mailto:deforge1@bright.net">D. Miles</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A = title=3Dscalpdance@egroups.com=20 href=3D"mailto:scalpdance@egroups.com">scalpdance@egroups.com</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 13, = 2001 8:35=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Darwin = award</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I just heard on the news that a kid = was=20 convicted of manslaughter after he loaded a M.L. with ashes & = cig butts=20 and fired it at a friend at a party... Autopsy results found that 3 = of the=20 butts penetraed the kids ribcage, killing him cold fish dead... The=20 convicted kid said it was a practical=20 joke..</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C095A1.952E80E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 09:35:45 -0800 I (the sucker in this latest round) will augment John's remarks. I received the virus from a trusted, computer literate relative who occasionally sends me "cute" messages. My guard was down. The latest trick is to label the file enclosure something.jpg.vbs, often using enough characters so that the executable tag (.vbs) scrolls off your title screen. I saw the .jpg, thought it was OK, and opened it only to watch my machine go crazy sending messages to everyone on my address book. It's obvious we're going to have to use enclosures less, and identify them better, because careful users will simply have to discard them. My apologies to the list if you got hit. Some systems appear to have deleted the enclosure automatically. Pat Quilter. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 9:30 PM Ho, the list. This seems like a good time to remind everyone: NEVER open a file attachment from someone you don't know. In order to affect your systems viruses must be executable files (.exe is most common but there are others). The best way to avoid a virus (after, of course, installing an anti-virus system AND keeping it updated) is to just delete attachments unless you are absolutely certain they are legitimate and from someone you know and trust. Free advice is usually worth just what you pay for it--but forewarned is forearmed and this falls into the category of watching the skyline and your back trail. John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 Fax: (307) 742-0886 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Computer Virus Dangers Date: 13 Feb 2001 09:57:47 -0800 With respect to Fred Miller's remarks below: It's even worse than he says. We use Microsoft Outlook at our company. I have received an email which took me AUTOMATICALLY to a web site when opened. If it can do that, it can run an executable without warning and without opening an enclosure. Therefore, resisting enclosures, although safer, is not a perfect defense. I pay attention to his remarks. Pat Quilter. (Fred sez) I'll put my Systems Admin. hat on for a min. If you don't want to be hit with a virus or a Cracker breaking into your 'puter, the BEST thing you can do is replace WinBloze with Linux, the SuSE distro is the best, IMHO. If you're not inclined to do that, then simply DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES open any file attachements....PERIOD, you WON'T get hit with a virus! Install ZoneAlarm for security. It's not a guarantee, but it's better than nothing. Yes, EVERYTHING from MicroSoft is VERY badly designed and written, but you DON'T have to invite trouble! Now I'll go back to my corner where it's nice and quiet. :) Fred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" <dbest@hydro.mb.ca> Subject: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 12:16:19 -0600 Yup, our company's anti-virus software is so damned sophisticated that you can't even receive an executable file if it has been renamed to something else. The software is "Trend OfficeScan" and it recognizes something in the code and wont even accept the attachment from the Net - it just blows it away - which is a pain when it is legit software.... We used to have MacAfee, until the "Love Bug" got through and took our corporate network of 4,000 users down for the better part of a week! Usually, around here, it takes forever to get anything new approved, purchased, and delivered. Sure is funny how quick we got new anti-virus software! Keep warm! Spring will come eventually.... Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Computer Virus Information from a Friend! Date: 13 Feb 2001 13:34:02 EST With regard to cookies and their ilk, I don't know about ZoneAlarm, but there is a program call AdSubtract which filters cookies, referrers, Java script, ads, pop-up windows, etc etc, and lets you set up the configuration to allow/disallow whatever you want. You can also clean all this junk out or leave that which is necessary. Its available from PcMag.com, and thh basic version is FREE, the pro version is $29.95 IIRC, and it will stop TONS of junk from getting on your system, or slowing down the loading of pages with ads. I've been using it for a couple of months, and when I check the log I'm astounded at how much junk is filtered from being placed on my system. Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 13:36:56 EST In a message dated 2/13/01 9:46:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, pat_quilter@qscaudio.com writes: << Some systems appear to have deleted the enclosure automatically. >> yep, those running up-to-date virus scanners, and also those which do NOT use MickeySoft mailer programs like outlook and outlook express. Maybe the only saving grace to AOL is the fact that these type of mail-borne infections don't work with their mail program. Barn ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 13:40:30 EST > I saw the .jpg, thought > it was OK, and opened it only to watch my machine go crazy sending messages > to everyone on my address book. It's obvious we're going to have to use > enclosures less, and identify them better, because careful users will simply > have to discard them. An alternative to prevent the spread of these things is to keep all your email addresses and passwords in a simple text file, instead of in your address book. At least that way, if you do get hit with the virus, it won't self replicate and send itself on to all your friends. Almost all computers have the ability to multitask. Just open the text file when sending email. Clip the addresses whom you are going to send email to, and paste them into the "Send to:" line of your message. Erase all the addresses in your address book. They are the source of replication for all these worm type viruses. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rich DuPree" <richdupree@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 13:03:52 -0700 >An alternative to prevent the spread of these things is to keep all your >email addresses and passwords in a simple text file, instead of in your >address book. Another suggestion is to associate script files (.vbs, .js, etc.) with a text editor so in the case you accidently open the script file, the text of the script is displayed in your text editor instead of actually running. Regards, Rich _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 14:07:50 -0600 Sorry, couldn't resist: Sven and Ole here, Yew have yust received da Sven & Ole Computer Virus. Because ve don't know how to program computers, dis virus verks on da honor system. Please delete all da files on yewr hard drive manually and forward dis message to everyvon on yewr mailing list. Tank yew fer yewr cooperation. Sven and Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 14:21:16 -0600 Though my UP-TO-DATE copy of Norton missed the Anna virus completely; my addresses were safe as I use Eudora instead of Outlook. Eudora is free. I had good success controlling cookies selectively with a program called InterMute before my systems got FUBARed trying to upgrade a year ago. I'm still dealing with the mess. Haven't had stable enough hardware to learn all the new Linux software to dump WinDoze. Thanks Mr. Bill. Dante has reserved a special circle of hell just for you. And I thought Pat was sending me some dirty pictures, damn. John... _________________________________________________ And it came to pass, that in the later days it was first whispered in the dead of night, then rumored and storied and finally fully known throughout all the lands and across the seas and on all the planets of the then known universe, by high born and low, free holder & serf', that Mr Bill is the ancient legendary, prophesied and true; one and only; undisputed; first original certified genuine; -- Rosemary's Baby. from: "The History of the Future Past"; Vol. 6, Chap. 6, Page 6; by SZR ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 16:33:50 -0800 Thanks for the Sven and Ole joke. Have not heard a good one since the La Junta 1978 rend. Love those guys. Always laugh and you did it with such a good accent. Linda Holley Jim Lindberg wrote: > Sorry, couldn't resist: > > Sven and Ole here, > > Yew have yust received da Sven & Ole Computer Virus. > Because ve don't know how to program computers, dis virus verks > on da honor system. Please delete all da files on yewr hard drive > manually and forward dis message to everyvon on yewr mailing list. > > Tank yew fer yewr cooperation. > > Sven and Ole > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Jackson" <billjackson@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Book Date: 13 Feb 2001 23:06:24 -0000 Ho, Dennis, hope you like the book, I have read several of Johnston's books, will look fo Wind Walker. MadJack >From: "D. Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: MtMan-List: Book >Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:21:38 -0500 > >Well, I just got back from the library... Picked up >"Wind Walker" (the final saga of Titus Bass) from Terry C Johnston. > I am supposed to be building a pipe hawk today.. Decisions, >decisions..<G> >D > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Darwin award Date: 13 Feb 2001 16:02:10 -0800 I think he was from the South somewhere.... >>Couldn't have been. Not possible ! Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mitch post <hiparoo@yahoo.com> Subject: MtMan-List: On the road..... Date: 13 Feb 2001 16:02:02 -0800 (PST) To all concerned-I'll be on the road starting Friday 16Feb01, for about 6 weeks. Headed to Oregon for Horse Ridge Rendevous then to Alabama-after that I'll be at SW Regional Rend. in Arkansas. Then probably to the Wisconsin area to work with Ray Glazner-Images of the Past. Will set my email "groups" to no-mail-I'll check messages to this address as I can on the road. Thanks for your time and consideration in this matter. Sincerely,Mitch Post Red Dog Trading Co./Hiparoo Hats ===== "RIDE THE HIGH TRAIL-NEVER TUCK YOUR TAIL" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 19:39:22 -0600 FYI. VBS is a visual basic script. This is executable code, meaning = if you click on it, it's going to run. MicroSoft systems automatically = know how to execute this kind of code, and you've just launched a = hackers attack at your box. Unless one of your friends is a = programmer, they probably wouldn't be sending you VBS, and even if they = ARE programmers, they'll probably use something else. VBS is a = preferred language for teenage hackers. It's simple, efficient, and = runs on any MicroSoft machine. =20 Any more, I have to be expecting something from one of my friends, or = it HAS to be in a recognized format, and even then, I scan it. Anymore, = that even includes pictures in bmp or jog format. I work for a software company, and the kind of crap that people are = coming up with is pretty impressive from a technical point of view. = From a personal point of view, these people ought to be drawn and = quartered. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Pat Quilter > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 11:36 AM > To: 'hist_text@lists.xmission.com' > Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Computer virus >=20 >=20 > I (the sucker in this latest round) will augment John's remarks.=20 > I received > the virus from a trusted, computer literate relative who=20 > occasionally sends > me "cute" messages. My guard was down. The latest trick is to=20 > label the file > enclosure something.jpg.vbs, often using enough characters so that the > executable tag (.vbs) scrolls off your title screen. I saw the=20 > .jpg, thought > it was OK, and opened it only to watch my machine go crazy=20 > sending messages > to everyone on my address book. It's obvious we're going to have to = use > enclosures less, and identify them better, because careful users=20 > will simply > have to discard them.=20 > My apologies to the list if you got hit. Some systems appear to=20 > have deleted > the enclosure automatically. > Pat Quilter.=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: John L. Allen [mailto:jlallen@wyoming.com] > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 9:30 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: Computer virus >=20 >=20 > Ho, the list. >=20 > This seems like a good time to remind everyone: >=20 > NEVER open a file attachment from someone you don't know. In=20 > order to affect > your systems viruses must be executable files (.exe is most=20 > common but there > are others). The best way to avoid a virus (after, of course,=20 > installing an > anti-virus system AND keeping it updated) is to just delete = attachments > unless you are absolutely certain they are legitimate and from someone = you > know and trust. >=20 > Free advice is usually worth just what you pay for it--but forewarned = is > forearmed and this falls into the category of watching the=20 > skyline and your > back trail. >=20 > John >=20 > Dr. John L. Allen > 2703 Leslie Court > Laramie, WY 82072-2979 > Phone: (307) 742-0883 > Fax: (307) 742-0886 > e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 19:41:29 -0600 'Nother FYI. If you are using Outlook, like I am, TURN OFF the preview = pane option. That opens an email, and COULD potentially launch a vbs. = Not saying it will, but the potential is there. We were recommended = to turn this off at our company after the LoveBug hit one of our branch = offices. =3D) Odd thing, in the engineering building, where I work, = we promptly disassembled the virus, and there was a critique of how = slppy the code was on one of our discussion boards. Sloppy or no, it = worked. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of > LivingInThePast@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 12:37 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus >=20 >=20 > In a message dated 2/13/01 9:46:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,=20 > pat_quilter@qscaudio.com writes: >=20 > << Some systems appear to have deleted the enclosure automatically. >> >=20 > yep, those running up-to-date virus scanners, and also those=20 > which do NOT use=20 > MickeySoft mailer programs like outlook and outlook express. =20 > Maybe the only=20 > saving grace to AOL is the fact that these type of mail-borne = infections=20 > don't work with their mail program. Barn >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Darwin award Date: 13 Feb 2001 19:45:42 -0600 All joking aside, this is just grand. Just what we need to get the = anti-gunners howling at the BP crowd again. Who let the stupid people = into our society anyhoo?!? Most muzzleloaders I've met tend to be more = responsible than that. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of larry = pendleton > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:02 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Darwin award >=20 >=20 > I think he was from the South somewhere.... >=20 > >>Couldn't have been. Not possible ! >=20 > Pendleton >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Computer Virus Information from a Friend! Date: 13 Feb 2001 19:50:08 -0600 Does it run under Winders? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of TrapRJohn > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 2:05 AM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Computer Virus Information from = a > Friend! >=20 >=20 > Hallo Brothers, > Here is the link to Zone Alarm. http://www.zonelabs.com/ You may = be > interested to know that this is the only firewall program that blocks > outgoing messages from advertising robots in your 'puter that=20 > send out your > personal information. I've been using it for over a month, and=20 > you would be > surprised at the stuff that goes in and out of your 'puter with out = your > knowledge, until you install Zone Alarm. For what it's worth, I=20 > think it is > a great program!!! Good Luck Brothers. > John Enos > TrapRJohn - YMHS - traprjon@mediaone.net - AMM - White Mountain Party > "Don't Compromise Your Civil Rights, They are Yours! Stand Up for = What's > Right!" -- TrapRJohn, Free Trapper -- > "No Free Man Shall Ever be Debarred the Use of Arms!" -- Thomas > Jefferson -- > "The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance!" -- General John Stark -- > "Any People that would give up Liberty for a Little Temporary Safety, > Deserves Neither Liberty nor Safety!" -- Benjamin Franklin -- >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@brier.net> > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 1:03 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Computer Virus Information from = a > Friend! >=20 >=20 > > Install ZoneAlarm for security. > > > > Fred > > > > Where can I find Zone Alarm?? > > > > Ad Miller > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On the road..... Date: 13 Feb 2001 18:43:03 -0800 Mitch, You going to lay out in the snow with us this weekend? I been thinking about making it down to Horse Ridge later. Capt. Lahti' > To all concerned-I'll be on the road starting Friday > 16Feb01, for about 6 weeks. Headed to Oregon for Horse > Ridge Rendevous ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Darwin award Date: 13 Feb 2001 19:00:34 -0800 > I think he was from the South somewhere.... > > >>Couldn't have been. Not possible ! Actually, it appears our stalwart genius was from New Jersey, and the fatal shot was his second attempt. He had fired a blank load at close range at another partygoer with a .44 bp revolver just before he shot and killed his roommate with the bp rifle & cigarette butts. Naturally, there was a bit of alcohol involved with the stupidity. The story is at http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jokedeath010213.html Regards from Idaho Lee Newbill ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 22:28:09 -0500 "Best, Dianne" wrote: > > Yup, our company's anti-virus software is so damned sophisticated that you > can't even receive an executable file if it has been renamed to something > else. The software is "Trend OfficeScan" and it recognizes something in the > code and wont even accept the attachment from the Net - it just blows it > away - which is a pain when it is legit software.... > > We used to have MacAfee, until the "Love Bug" got through and took our > corporate network of 4,000 users down for the better part of a week! > Usually, around here, it takes forever to get anything new approved, > purchased, and delivered. Sure is funny how quick we got new anti-virus > software! > > Keep warm! Spring will come eventually.... MOST virus' spread via MickySoft's Outlook and Outlook express. The use of a different mailer would have SAVED your Co. from affecting 4,000 users. Replacing M$ with Linux would eliminate ALL risk. Fred -- Failure is not an option, it comes pre-installed with your Windoze software. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 22:29:13 -0500 LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 2/13/01 9:46:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, > pat_quilter@qscaudio.com writes: > > << Some systems appear to have deleted the enclosure automatically. >> > > yep, those running up-to-date virus scanners, and also those which do NOT use > MickeySoft mailer programs like outlook and outlook express. Maybe the only > saving grace to AOL is the fact that these type of mail-borne infections > don't work with their mail program. Barn That's "Lookout" not "Outlook." :) Fred -- Failure is not an option, it comes pre-installed with your Windoze software. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 22:36:15 -0500 Todd wrote: > > FYI. VBS is a visual basic script. This is executable code, meaning if you click on it, it's going to run. MicroSoft systems automatically know how to execute this kind of code, and you've just launched a hackers attack at your box. Unless one of your friends is a programmer, they probably wouldn't be sending you VBS, and even if they ARE programmers, they'll probably use something else. VBS is a preferred language for teenage hackers. It's simple, efficient, and runs on any MicroSoft machine. > Any more, I have to be expecting something from one of my friends, or it HAS to be in a recognized format, and even then, I scan it. Anymore, that even includes pictures in bmp or jog format. > I work for a software company, and the kind of crap that people are coming up with is pretty impressive from a technical point of view. From a personal point of view, these people ought to be drawn and quartered. > Be advised that VERY soon, IMHO, virus' will come in the form of HTLM mail. It's just that no one has sent a virus out in this manner yet. Many mailers don't have a provision to turn off HTML display of incoming mail, that is PLAIN TEXT ONLY. And, once again, the attack will be targeted for MickySoft systems. Fred -- Failure is not an option, it comes pre-installed with your Windoze software. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Computer Virus Information from a Friend! Date: 13 Feb 2001 22:40:50 -0500 Addison Miller wrote: > > Install ZoneAlarm for security. > > > Fred > > Where can I find Zone Alarm?? Here's the site: http://www.zonelabs.com Fred -- Failure is not an option, it comes pre-installed with your Windoze software. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Computer Virus Information from a Friend! Date: 13 Feb 2001 22:43:03 -0500 "Paul W. Jones" wrote: > > TrapRJohn: > > Thanks for the posting about Zone Alarm. Have been looking for a good > firewall program and intend to check this one out. However, I have a > question. As some of the personal info that goes out relates to on-going > relationships, for example, I pay several of my credit cards on-line, and > the bank computers need to verify certain info from my account which is > stored on "cookies" in my computer, or when I buy a book from Amazon their > computer uses "cookies" about my account when I am paying for a > purchase-----can you pick and choose which cookies you let go out (and in) > as I do not wish to disrupt this type of computer/account? Paul, Zonealarm will ask you if it's "OK" for a given site to communicate with your "box." You can either answer yes each time, or you can make "rule" (check box) so you don't have to each time.....simple. Fred -- Failure is not an option, it comes pre-installed with your Windoze software. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: OT: Darwin Award for viruses Date: 13 Feb 2001 20:40:28 -0700 I got an e-mail this morning that consisted of an attachment and nothing else. The subject heading? "Please open--virus warning." If it really was a virus warning (which I doubt! I didn't know the sender), the sender richly deserves a Darwin Award; the subject & method of sending (an attachment, instead of plain text) guaranteed that it got deleted & trashed immediately. I would have done trashed _that_ one even if it came from my mother... And if it really is a virus, anyone who gets infected deserves whatever havoc it might wreak. Darwin Awards either way! Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Music to build guns by Date: 13 Feb 2001 20:56:06 -0700 What do you listen to for inspiration at home, or on your way to an event? Now that we're in the February doldrums, I thought I might suggest some songs from a kind of sub-genre of modern folk music--songs on historic subjects, often written in an historic style. Since this stuff is outside of the mainstream of radio play, and isn't sold by sutlers, I thought list members might be interested. Songs marked * are highly recommended. PIRATE ANTHEM * "Traighli Bay" (about happy, successful pirates) by Tanglefoot, on their CD _Saturday Night in Hardwood Lake_ COLONIAL * "Awkward Donald" (about a clumsy man's unlikely courtship) by Tanglefoot, on their CD _The Music in the Wood_ * "Let the Piper Play" (about Scottish emigrants sailing to Halifax in 1770), by Tanglefoot on _Full-Throated Abandon_ * "Maid on the Shore" (traditional), by Stan Rogers, on _Fogarty's Cove_ AMERICAN REVOLUTION * "Loyal She Remains" (about Loyalist refugees), by Tamarack, on _Frobisher Bay_ * "Barrett's Privateers" (about an ill-fated Canadian privateer), by Stan Rogers, on _Between the Breaks...Live!_ and _Fogarty's Cove_ "Fire and Guns" (heartbreaker about Loyalist refugees), by Tanglefoot, on _Saturday Night in Hardwood Lake_ "Le Sargent" (about Quebeckers fighting for the Patriots--mostly in French), by Tamarack on CD _Leaving Inverarden_ VOYAGEURS & FUR TRADE * "La V'la M'amie" (traditional voyageur song) by Tanglefoot on _The Music in the Wood_ * "Northwest Passage" (about fur trade explorers, but an inspiration to all reenactors!), by Stan Rogers on _Northwest Passage_ "Chippewa Smile" (about a fur trader's love for his Ojibway country wife), by Tamarack on _13_ "Red River Carts", by Tamarack on _13_ "Leaving Inverarden" (about Nor'wester John Macdonald of Garth), by Tamarack on _Leaving Inverarden_ "Magdalen McGillivray" (Scottish wife of North West Company head, William McGillivray), by Tamarack on _Leaving Inverarden_ "Loup Garou" by Tanglefoot on _The Music in the Wood_ WAR OF 1812 * "Secord's Warning" (about Canadian heroine Laura Secord, but an inspiration to all Canadians and female reenactors of 1812), by Tanglefoot, on _The Music in the Wood_ * "The Nancy" (a Great Lakes schooner which took part in two naval engagements), by Stan Rogers, on _From Fresh Water_ * "Our White Man's Word" (about the burning of the longhouses), by Tamarack, on _On the Grand_ * "Pawpine" (about a slave who fought for the Crown in 1774 & 1812), by Tamarack, on _On the Grand_ "The Virginia Brand" (about an ex-soldier(?) and another soldier's widow), by Tamarack, on _On the Grand_ "Billy Green" (about a civilian Canadian hero), by Stan Rogers, on _From Coffee House to Concert Hall_ "MacDonnell on the Heights" (about Gen. Brock's successor at the Battle of Queenston Heights), by Stan Rogers, on _From Fresh Water_ Where can you buy the CDs? Tamarack: http://www.sentex.net/%7Egormorse/JamesGordon.html and http://www.interlog.com/~pmsinc/ Tanglefoot: http://www.tanglefootmusic.com/ The Rankins, Stan Rogers: www.hmv.com Any other suggestions? I'd love to hear 'em. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Darwin award Date: 13 Feb 2001 20:18:08 -0800 He had fired a blank load at close range at > another partygoer with a .44 bp revolver just before he shot and killed his > roommate with the bp rifle & cigarette butts. > > Naturally, there was a bit of alcohol involved with the stupidity. The > story is at Actually this sort of thing has happened before. Not that many years ago a young buckskinner friend of mine found himself in Texas as a new member of the Army. Being from a BP family and background he searched out similar activities down there. At one of his first outings with his new acquaintances, one young buck pulled out his cap and ball revolver and fired it from a short distance point blank at my young friend. It was loaded with a blank charge/wad and just stung his tummy a bit. But my young friend wasn't amused and when he got through with the fella with the cap and ball revolver, that young man was not having fun at all. Needless to say, my friend did not associate with that bunch of buckaroos any more. Back to really old history. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 13 Feb 2001 21:44:37 -0700 I was introduced to these guys on the canoe trip last year, and I like Linda, want more! mike. Linda Holley wrote: > Thanks for the Sven and Ole joke. Have not heard a good one since the La > Junta 1978 rend. Love those guys. Always laugh and you did it with such > a good accent. > > Linda Holley > > Jim Lindberg wrote: > > > Sorry, couldn't resist: > > > > Sven and Ole here, > > > > Yew have yust received da Sven & Ole Computer Virus. > > Because ve don't know how to program computers, dis virus verks > > on da honor system. Please delete all da files on yewr hard drive > > manually and forward dis message to everyvon on yewr mailing list. > > > > Tank yew fer yewr cooperation. > > > > Sven and Ole > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randal J Bublitz <randybublitz@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Music to build guns by Date: 13 Feb 2001 21:38:25 -0800 Angela, " What do you listen to for inspiration.........on your way to an event? "...My Kids whining..."are we there yet????" hardtack Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnel fat? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Darwin award Date: 14 Feb 2001 04:33:07 -0800 Todd wrote : Who let the stupid people into our society anyhoo?!? Todd, my theory is, the stupid gene is dominant. <GG> LP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Music to build guns by Date: 14 Feb 2001 06:55:14 EST In a message dated 2/13/2001 11:10:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, agottfre@telusplanet.net writes: << Where can you buy the CDs? >> Be sure that CD player is "documented" :o) Greg S. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" <dbest@hydro.mb.ca> Subject: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 14 Feb 2001 07:27:33 -0600 Fred wrote: "MOST virus' spread via MickySoft's Outlook and Outlook express. The use of a different mailer would have SAVED your Co. from affecting 4,000 users. Replacing M$ with Linux would eliminate ALL risk." Hey! Tell me about it! I spent 10 years writing software before I came to my present job 15 years ago. The crap put out by Microsquish is SOOOO bad I wouldn't have even considered taking something like that to my boss as an initial prototype. The thought of taking such poor quality software to market would have got any programmer fired 15 years ago! (And he/she'd have never got another job in programming!) Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" <dbest@hydro.mb.ca> Subject: MtMan-List: Darwin award Date: 14 Feb 2001 07:47:25 -0600 Stupidity runs rampant! It is amazing (and sad) that some of these creatures have enough intelligence to reproduce. I sure hope this doesn't get the anti-gunners up in arms down there. Up here in voyager land, we've got really restrictive gun laws (so bad that I had to order my BP revolver from the east coast because the big gun dealers can't be bothered with anything that isn't high demand!) and even that doesn't stop the stupidity! There is a fella not too far from where I live who had his guns stored in a locked closet, in a locked room in his house (the law says they have to be under lock & key). Some guys broke in to the house, broke in to the locked room, broke into the closet, and stole his guns. The owner was charged and convicted for "improper storage". In another case, a fella had his guns hidden in a secret location in his house. Acquaintances of his son (who knew there were guns there) broke into the fella's house and beat him to within an inch of his life to find out where the guns were. Finally the fella told them. The guns were hidden under a floorboard in a bedroom - the crooks would never have found them if the old fella hadn't given up the location. When the old fella called the police to report the beating and the theft, he was charged and later convicted of "improper storage". Don't do to defend yourself up here either. There was a case a couple of years back where a rural storekeeper had been robbed a few times at gun-point. His home, where he lived with his wife and little kids, was over the store. One night he heard a number of guys breaking into the store so he picked up a rifle and snuck down the stairs and into the store to wait for the crooks. When the bad guys broke in, he winged at least one of them (maybe more). He didn't kill any of the bad guys but one of them ended up in hospital. He was charged with "attempted murder". By the grace of God he had one of the few judges with common sense. The judge reduced the charge and gave him a slap on the wrist. I am not comfortable with the system of gun ownership ya'll have down there 'cause I think it is too easy for a "nut case" to have more weapons than an army platoon, but our very restrictive system up here don't make a hell of a lot of difference! Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Darwin award Date: 14 Feb 2001 10:01:14 -0800 > I am not comfortable with the system of gun ownership ya'll have down there > 'cause I think it is too easy for a "nut case" to have more weapons than an > army platoon, but our very restrictive system up here don't make a hell of a > lot of difference! Jin-o-ta-ka, If the laws of the land are enforced a "nut case" won't have more weapons than an army platoon,but the bottom line is still that our Constitution say we can have them. Of course that is an on going battle to protect. Your reaping the benefits of not having that protection or of having lost it, however it happened. My liberal "friends and relatives" do not understand that some things are "Rights" that should not be given up or allowed to be abridged. They do not live safer for living where guns are harder to come by nor do they make society safer by advocating restrictive gun control. Many wise words have been spoken by some of this countries wisest citizens concerning the subject of gun ownership and protection of freedom. Unfortunatly those men spoke their words of wisdom over 200 years ago and not much wisdom has been shared since. (minimal historical reference to make this fit this list <G>) May I suggest though that we steer clear of this topic since it can and has lead to heated discussions of contemporary politics, which on the one hand is a pointless discussion and on the other is not suitable for this list? Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" <dbest@hydro.mb.ca> Subject: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 14 Feb 2001 12:00:09 -0600 I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of a .45 Cal Remington New Army - I just LOVE shooting cap and ball revolver! It also fits with my primary historical interest - the heyday of the sternwheelers on the Red River (1850 to 1890). I am also planning to buy a flintlock. I have a mediocre .54 that I seldom shoot because it has such a vicious recoil so I was thinking about buying a .32 Pennsylvania flinter to fit my other persona - an old mixed blood of the 1740's fur trade era. Then I got thinking again and wondered if I should go to .45 so I can shoot the same size balls as the C&B What say you gang? Shall I or shant I? Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 14 Feb 2001 13:22:14 EST > Then I got thinking again and wondered if I should go to .45 so I can shoot > the same size balls as the C&B > What say you gang? Shall I or shant I? Diane, I say I don't think you can. Your pistol will use either .451 or .457 balls. Your rifle will use a .440 ball. The pistol ball is oversize for the rifle, and unless you hammer it down every time with a mallet, it won't work. You can't use the rifle balls in the pistol because they won't seal the chambers, which results in chain firing; and being undersized, recoil will let them move forward and your gun will lock up when the cylinder rotates. Suggest you think of other alternatives. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "TrapRJohn" <traprjon@mediaone.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Boy Scouts Need Help Date: 14 Feb 2001 13:45:04 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0968C.55B6B900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hallo the List, Please indulge this short off topic request. Many of us are = involved with the Boy Scouts of America. Their funding is being = attacked because in this day and age, they choose to be Politically = Incorrect, something most of us do with pride. Please click on the = below link and find out how to start a grass fire E-mail to help them. = Thank you, and sorry for the interruption of the proper topic's for this = list. =20 Sincerely, John Enos TrapRJohn traprjon@mediaone.net Boy Scouts Need Help Please click this link to find out how you can help!!! http://www.grassfire.net/scouts.asp?CID=3D2&PID=3D521905=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0968C.55B6B900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hallo the List,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Please indulge this = short off=20 topic request. Many of us are involved with the Boy Scouts of=20 America. Their funding is being attacked because in this day and = age, they=20 choose to be Politically Incorrect, something most of us do with = pride. =20 Please click on the below link and find out how to start a grass fire = E-mail to=20 help them. Thank you, and sorry for the interruption of the proper = topic's=20 for this list. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>John Enos</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>TrapRJohn<BR><A=20 href=3D"mailto:traprjon@mediaone.net">traprjon@mediaone.net</A></FONT></D= IV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Boy Scouts Need Help<BR>Please click = this link to=20 find out how you can help!!!<BR><A=20 href=3D"http://www.grassfire.net/scouts.asp?CID=3D2&PID=3D521905">htt= p://www.grassfire.net/scouts.asp?CID=3D2&PID=3D521905</A>=20 </FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0968C.55B6B900-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Boy Scouts Need Help Date: 14 Feb 2001 12:52:59 -0600 Careful, this place is a little on the extreme side, not even being discussed on most scouting lists anymore. Jim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 14 Feb 2001 14:11:12 EST In a message dated 2/14/1 11:02:00 AM, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes: <<Then I got thinking again and wondered if I should go to .45 so I can shoot the same size balls as the C&B >> Diane You have me puzzled . . . are you getting a Remington cartridge pistol (like Frank James carried) or are you looking at cap & ball?? 'cause if its c&b - they were called .44s even though a good fitting ball measures .445 Dick James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 14 Feb 2001 14:20:36 EST In a message dated 2/14/01 10:02:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes: << Then I got thinking again and wondered if I should go to .45 so I can shoot the same size balls as the C&B. What say you gang? Shall I or shant I? >> Diane, I've found it VERY convenient to be able to buy/store/carry only one size RB for multiple weapons. Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 14 Feb 2001 14:21:10 EST Dianne Glad the Old Fox took time to write you as I see I had typing errors in my message. The ball size he quoted was correct. Don't forget to use grease to seal each chamber (NOT Crisco as some early writer said and a hundred followers quoted) because you can get cross fire and lose several chambers at once. I had that happen a couple of times with a .36 before I was convinced. That DOES make your ears ring and your hand tingle. First time I lost two - second/last time I lost 5. That Remington is one nice pistol. I do like the Colts, but in my mind the Remington points nicer. Some like it for the top strap for sighting and strength. That wider trigger feels nice, too. Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 14 Feb 2001 14:23:55 EST In a message dated 2/14/01 11:21:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, LivingInThePast@aol.com writes: << Diane, I've found it VERY convenient to be able to buy/store/carry only one size RB for multiple weapons. Barney >> Diane, Sorry, wasn't paying attention until I read TOF's post. He is right, and you need to determine if the same size ball will fit in both. Normally a rifle and revolver of the same calibre do use a slightly different size RB. My guess (and it's only a guess) is that it's due to the lack of patching required in the revolver. Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Stewart <sardog1@att.net> Subject: MtMan-List: enough of the virus..please Date: 15 Feb 2001 15:06:10 -0500 --------------2DF6F041C35BED456082A108 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > FYI. VBS is a visual basic script. This is executable code, meaning if you click on it, it's going to run. MicroSoft systems automatically know how to execute this kind of code, and you've just launched a hackers attack at your box. Unless one of your friends is a programmer, they probably wouldn't be sending you VBS, and even if they ARE programmers, they'll probably use something else. VBS is a preferred language for teenage hackers. It's simple, efficient, and runs on any MicroSoft machine. > Any more, I have to be expecting something from one of my friends, or it HAS to be in a recognized format, and even then, I scan it. Anymore, that even includes pictures in bmp or jog format. > I work for a software company, and the kind of crap that people are coming up with is pretty impressive from a technical point of view. From a personal point of view, these people ought to be drawn and quartered. > Hello everyone, I, like everyone, appreciate the heads up on any new virus coming down the pike....HOWEVER, could we please keep the discussion of repairs or web site patches or operating systems to an extreme minimum. This list is for the discussion of pre-1840 history, not a debate on the best operating system available or any other techno-chat. My thanks to everyone. --------------2DF6F041C35BED456082A108 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <br>><i> FYI. VBS is a visual basic script. This is executable code, meaning if you click on it, it's going to run. MicroSoft</i> <br><i>systems automatically know how to execute this kind of code, and you've just launched a hackers attack at your box.</i> <br><i>Unless one of your friends is a programmer, they probably wouldn't be sending you VBS, and even if they ARE programmers,</i> <br><i>they'll probably use something else. VBS is a preferred language for teenage hackers. It's simple, efficient, and runs</i> <br><i>on any MicroSoft machine.</i> <br><i>> Any more, I have to be expecting something from one of my friends, or it HAS to be in a recognized format, and even</i> <br><i>then, I scan it. Anymore, that even includes pictures in bmp or jog format.</i> <br><i>> I work for a software company, and the kind of crap that people are coming up with is pretty impressive from a technical</i> <br><i>point of view. From a personal point of view, these people ought to be drawn and quartered.</i> <br><i>></i> <br> <br> <p>Hello everyone, <br> I, like everyone, appreciate the heads up on any new virus coming down the pike....HOWEVER, could we please keep the discussion of repairs or web site patches or operating systems to an extreme minimum. This list is for the discussion of pre-1840 history, not a debate on the best operating system available or any other techno-chat. My thanks to everyone.</html> --------------2DF6F041C35BED456082A108-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Music Date: 14 Feb 2001 15:33:30 EST --part1_ac.10f4f55e.27bc459a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > What do you listen to for inspiration at home, or on your way to an event? > David and Ginger Hildebrand: Over the Hills and Far Away and George Washington Music for the First President. The Virginia Company: Nine Points Of Roguery, Smash the Windows and Vintage Virgina. Father, Son and Friends (Joey Hall): Adrift On The Tide, First Time Out, Blue Bonnets & White Cokades, Rebels, Rogues & Rascals and Alba Go Bragh. All available with song books to give you the notes, words and cords to learn and enjoy. Nottingham Ale-Tavern Music from Colonial Williamsburg. The Baltimore Consort and Merry Companions: The Art of the Bawdy Song. That is some of our getting in the mood music. Many more but they are in the other truck so can't get all the titles. All have good period music. Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes --part1_ac.10f4f55e.27bc459a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <BR>What do you listen to for inspiration at home, or on your way to an event? <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>David and Ginger Hildebrand: <U> Over the Hills and Far Away</U> and <U>George <BR>Washington Music for the First President</U>. <BR> <BR>The Virginia Company: <U>Nine Points Of Roguery</U>, <U>Smash the Windows</U> and <U>Vintage <BR>Virgina.</U> <BR> <BR>Father, Son and Friends (Joey Hall): <U>Adrift On The Tide</U>, <U>First Time Out</U>, <U> <BR>Blue Bonnets & White Cokades</U>, <U>Rebels, Rogues & Rascals</U> and <U>Alba Go Bragh</U>. <BR>All available with song books to give you the notes, words and cords to learn <BR>and enjoy. <BR> <BR><U>Nottingham Ale-Tavern Music from Colonial Williamsburg</U>. <BR> <BR>The Baltimore Consort and Merry Companions: <U>The Art of the Bawdy Song</U>. <BR> <BR>That is some of our getting in the mood music. Many more but they are in the <BR>other truck so can't get all the titles. <BR> <BR>All have good period music. <BR> <BR>Y.M.O.S. <BR> <BR>C.T. Oakes</FONT></HTML> --part1_ac.10f4f55e.27bc459a_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe <gnoe39@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 14 Feb 2001 12:41:45 -0800 (PST) Only a thought !! If you are thinking of having a coustom rifle built, why not have it bored to the same caliber of the revolver??? --- LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/14/01 11:21:13 AM Pacific > Standard Time, > LivingInThePast@aol.com writes: > > << Diane, I've found it VERY convenient to be able > to buy/store/carry only > one > size RB for multiple weapons. Barney >> > > (Diane > Normally a > rifle and revolver of the same calibre do use a > slightly different size RB. > My guess (and it's only a guess) is that it's due to > the lack of patching > required in the revolver. Barney) > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: MtMan-List: TAOS TRADERS ? Date: 14 Feb 2001 15:56:11 -0800 How about a Fur Trade question ? The records of the major fur companies activities at the annual rendezvous are well documented. Even the efforts of Nathaniel Wyeth, who came within a broken mast of possibly cornering the mountain fur trade are well known. But, I have seen references to independent traders who came to the rendezvous, primarily from Taos. Are these well founded or not ? Are there any records of these traders, and the goods they carried ? How many were there at the rendezvous, in a given year ? Thanks, Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 14 Feb 2001 20:16:09 EST In a message dated 2/14/2001 1:02:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes: << Then I got thinking again and wondered if I should go to .45 so I can shoot the same size balls as the C&B >> I've found that .451 balls work fine in a good cut rifled 45 barrel (if that's what your C&B will take). You just need to use a short starter and may need to buy a box of .440 or .445 for 2nd shot quick loads when hunting. 99% of most people's shooting is done at targets where the .451 shoots best in my 45 cal H&H barrel (and an early TC). Greg Sefton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 14 Feb 2001 19:57:29 -0600 What calibre is your pistol shooting? My brother in laws shoots .451, = and you have to force the ball in to the chamber of the revolver. My = .45 kentucky shoots .445 which would rattle around in a revolver. Are = you sure they're compatible? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Best, Dianne > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 12:00 PM > To: 'MountainMan Digest' > Subject: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber >=20 >=20 > I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of a .45 Cal Remington New=20 > Army - I just > LOVE shooting cap and ball revolver! It also fits with my primary=20 > historical > interest - the heyday of the sternwheelers on the Red River (1850=20 > to 1890). >=20 > I am also planning to buy a flintlock. I have a mediocre .54 that I = seldom > shoot because it has such a vicious recoil so I was thinking=20 > about buying a > .32 Pennsylvania flinter to fit my other persona - an old mixed=20 > blood of the > 1740's fur trade era. >=20 > Then I got thinking again and wondered if I should go to .45 so I=20 > can shoot > the same size balls as the C&B >=20 > What say you gang? Shall I or shant I? >=20 > Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 14 Feb 2001 20:07:14 -0600 Planning on it, only going the other way. I have a pedersoli .45 = kentucky pistol, and my rifle shoots .50, so I'm looking at getting a = kit from Pecatonica for the pistol, and making it to match the rifle. = Anybody got any experience with Pecatonica and their kits? Also, I saw = an ad for swamped pistol barrels. Now, my rifle DOES have a swamped = barrel, but how common was that on a pistol? Seems to me that most of = the pistols I've seen were smoothbore, octagon to round, up until the = 20's I guess. Swamped barrels were used on the older rifles, but = what about on a pistol? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of George Noe > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 2:42 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber >=20 >=20 > Only a thought !! > If you are thinking of having a coustom rifle built, > why not have it bored to the same caliber of the > revolver??? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Boy Scouts Need Help Date: 14 Feb 2001 20:08:34 -0600 Yeah, but I did see that the BSA is holding a Jamboree at the range at = Friendship this year. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lindberg > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 12:53 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Boy Scouts Need Help >=20 >=20 > Careful, this place is a little on the extreme side, not even being > discussed on most scouting lists anymore. >=20 > Jim >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Boy Scouts Need Help Date: 14 Feb 2001 22:09:10 EST > Yeah, but I did see that the BSA is holding a Jamboree at the range at > Friendship this year. Todd, Do you have any more info on this? Is the NMLRA hosting it, or is it just a camporee. The Jamboree is a national event held every 4 years at Ft. A.P. Hill, VA. Perhaps they could use another volunteer. I've got the time and the inclination. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randal J Bublitz <randybublitz@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TAOS TRADERS ? Date: 14 Feb 2001 19:22:33 -0800 Larry, I have a book entitled "The Taos Trappers" by David J. Weber ISBN# 0-8061-1702-8 U. of OK Press I haven't read it in quite some time (years ago). Check it out hardtack Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnel fat? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Boy Scouts Need Help Date: 14 Feb 2001 22:27:34 EST In a message dated 2/14/01 10:10:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, ThisOldFox@aol.com writes: << The Jamboree is a national event held every 4 years at Ft. A.P. Hill, VA. >> Is it always at Ft. A.P. Hill or does it make it to different places? I was there in 1985 and it was a blast! Would make a nice trip to go and visit a jamboree. -C.Kent Eagle Scout, 1988 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Boy Scouts Need Help Date: 14 Feb 2001 20:33:49 -0700 Hey Eagle, Got a couple of AMM brothers on staff this year, Blacksmithing at the Western Region Buckskin Games! YMOS Ole # 718 BSA/District Commisioner ---------- >From: HikingOnThru@cs.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Boy Scouts Need Help >Date: Wed, Feb 14, 2001, 8:27 PM > >In a message dated 2/14/01 10:10:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, >ThisOldFox@aol.com writes: > ><< The Jamboree is a national event held every 4 years at Ft. A.P. > Hill, VA. >> >Is it always at Ft. A.P. Hill or does it make it to different places? I was >there in 1985 and it was a blast! Would make a nice trip to go and visit a >jamboree. > >-C.Kent >Eagle Scout, 1988 > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Boy Scouts Need Help Date: 14 Feb 2001 22:36:48 EST > Is it always at Ft. A.P. Hill or does it make it to different places? Due to the size and cost of improvements, AP Hill was made the permanent site. > I was there in 1985 and it was a blast! Would make a nice trip to go and visit a > jamboree. I gave the inspirational message at the opening campfire of one of the regional subcamps. If "snowflakes" ring a bell with you, then that was me. I survived Hurricane Bob that year too. TOF EC195W ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Computer virus Date: 14 Feb 2001 23:46:15 -0500 "Best, Dianne" wrote: > > Fred wrote: "MOST virus' spread via MickySoft's Outlook and Outlook express. > The use of a different mailer would have SAVED your Co. from affecting 4,000 > users. Replacing M$ with Linux would eliminate ALL risk." > > Hey! Tell me about it! I spent 10 years writing software before I came to my > present job 15 years ago. The crap put out by Microsquish is SOOOO bad I > wouldn't have even considered taking something like that to my boss as an > initial prototype. The thought of taking such poor quality software to > market would have got any programmer fired 15 years ago! (And he/she'd have > never got another job in programming!) Gone off-list with this. Fred -- Failure is not an option, it comes pre-installed with your Windoze software. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 15 Feb 2001 13:48:58 EST In a message dated 2/14/01 5:17:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, BrayHaven@aol.com writes: << targets where the .451 shoots best in my 45 cal H&H barrel (and an early TC). >> Had the same experience with my H&H bareled .45 rifle & pistol. Shoot .451 best, then .440 almost as well -- flat don't like .445. Gotta use good patch lube. According to the DGW catalog, it depends on who made the '58 Remington reproduction as to whether it takes .451 or .454. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com> Subject: MtMan-List: North Idaho Craft & BP Show Date: 15 Feb 2001 14:30:51 -0800 Hallo For those of y'all in the area, there is a blackpowder oriented show at the Couer d'Alene fairgrounds this weekend. It's in it's 10th year (or so) and going strong. October Country is usually there along with various other local traders and craftsmen. Hope to see y'all there. If someone out there could forward this on to the MLML list, I'd appreciate it. Regards from Idaho Lee Newbill ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: North Idaho Craft & BP Show Date: 15 Feb 2001 20:17:09 EST Lee Sounds like a good gathering. I'd really like to go at least once, but this doesn't give me a chance to plan. If they do it again and you get a chance to let us a little bit earlier, I would appreciate it. If they decide to do it again in nicer weather, I would appreciate it even more. I've never visitied that area and would like to see it under the most favorable circumstances. Most Sincerely Richard James P.S. Gunshow in Ogden this week-end and one in Pocatello next week end. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Boy Scouts Need Help Date: 15 Feb 2001 19:52:09 -0600 It was on the NMLRA listing of events at Friendship for 2001. <SNIP from NMLRA.ORG> =20 October 26-28, 2001 Boy Scout Jamboree--entire range. Anyone interested = in helping or putting on a demonstration=20 Contact: Richard Andrews 317-283-3746. =20 <end SNIP> Last year at the spring nationals, I was on the pistol range, and there = was a leader teaching a bunch of kids to shoot. That was great. Lot = of troops are way too concerned with being politically correct to teach = responsible shooting. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of > ThisOldFox@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:09 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic - Boy Scouts Need Help >=20 >=20 > > Yeah, but I did see that the BSA is holding a Jamboree at the range = at=20 > > Friendship this year. >=20 > Todd, > Do you have any more info on this? Is the NMLRA hosting it, or=20 > is it just a=20 > camporee. The Jamboree is a national event held every 4 years at=20 > Ft. A.P.=20 > Hill, VA. > Perhaps they could use another volunteer. I've got the time and the=20 > inclination. >=20 > Dave Kanger >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) Subject: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark $10 Bill (item of interest) Date: 15 Feb 2001 21:12:53 -0500 (EST) Actual United States Legal Tender Note from 1901 (has a Bison at the center). www.frbsf.org/currency/industrial/legal/533.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Michigan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jedediah Smith's wife Date: 15 Feb 2001 21:32:10 EST Has anyone seen references to Jedediah Smith having an Indian wife named Mary? I'm trying to track down the source of that. I have found two different folks spouting that date to the 1860s. Neither is related to Smith so it doesn't appear to be a family story. Anyone that might know of other sources, please let me know. Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: North Idaho Craft & BP Show Date: 15 Feb 2001 19:25:21 -0800 Richard The folks from Mountain Top Trading Company, Tony and Judy Roberts, just purchased the rights to this show and plan to keep at it and even expand it some next year. As their webguy, and frequent visitor to their coffee pot, I was drafted as cheap labor for this show, and suspect Tony will do the same again next year. Guess that makes me both cheap and easy<G>. Anyway, for planning purposes, next year's show is set for 16-17 Feb of 2002. Nice weather? Not recently, leastwise not around here. Becky and I are headed north to Coeur d'Alene tomorrow in my four wheel drive equipped with everything needed to survive Idaho's bloody hiway 95 for three days. 2-3 inches of snow today, forcast of about 6" of snow tommorrow. Have chains will travel. Regards from frozen North Idaho! Lee Newbill > SWzypher@aol.com wrote: > Sounds like a good gathering. I'd really like to go at least once, but this > doesn't give me a chance to plan. If they do it again and you get a chance > to let us a little bit earlier, I would appreciate it. If they decide to do > it again in nicer weather, I would appreciate it even more. I've never > visitied that area and would like to see it under the most favorable > circumstances. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: North Idaho Craft & BP Show Date: 15 Feb 2001 19:36:02 -0800 Sorry folks.... that last email was supposed to go as a personal note. Lee Newbill ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark $10 Bill (item of interest) Date: 16 Feb 2001 01:19:06 EST In a message dated 2/15/01 6:13:36 PM, JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net writes: << Actual United States Legal Tender Note from 1901 (has a Bison at the center). www.frbsf.org/currency/industrial/legal/533.html >> Where could a guy get a note like that? I gotta have one.... Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randal J Bublitz <randybublitz@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark $10 Bill (item of interest) Date: 15 Feb 2001 22:33:18 -0800 Magpie, do what I always do....print it...<g>...I used good photo paper..... will hang it next to my pics of Lewis & Clark on my living room wall...... hardtack Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnel fat? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" <dbest@hydro.mb.ca> Subject: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 16 Feb 2001 07:14:34 -0600 I should have been more specific with my initial post but I didn't have time before I had to run out the door! I have a Euroarms Remington on order, which specifies a 0.451 ball. I used to have a US-made cap & ball revolver and I loved shooting it. (I have regretted selling it ever since!) I know that the revolver I used to have sheared off a little ring of lead as the ball is pressed home. And yes, I always greased the open ends of the cylinder - I did NOT want to experience a chain fire! The .45 flintlock that I am considering is from Pedersoli and also specifies 0.451 round ball - which would be very convenient! My only hesitation is that I already have a .54 Hawken and I don't like shooting it because of it's recoil - I find it MUCH harder on my shoulder than my 1894 Marlin 45-70 with heavy loads. With the Marlin I can consistently outshoot any man (yuk yuk) all day long but than damned Hawken tries to turn my shoulder to hamburger and that really hurts my accuracy. Sooooo, that's why I was thinking of dropping to .32 in a flintlock. Going to .45 is a bit bigger than I was planning on but the supplier has a .45 on order. If I want to go with a .32, I have to tell them TODAY!!! (So E-mail me direct if you've got something important to aid in my decision!) I look forward to getting a flinter that doesn't abuse me too much - the more comfortable it is to shoot, the better my shooting will be, and I REALLY want to come down there and embarrass all you Yanks when you're out-shot by an old mixed-blood woman! Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 16 Feb 2001 08:59:04 EST In a message dated 2/16/2001 8:28:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes: << I look forward to getting a flinter that doesn't abuse me too much - the more comfortable it is to shoot, the better my shooting will be >> This is a very good criteria for you to look at. As a modern gunsmith I often talked people out of heavy recoil rifles that I knew they didn't need and would cause flinching etc. Many later came back & thanked me for barreling that rifle in a milder (but still adequate) caliber and reported their shooting was better and more enjoyable. The .45 is a much milder recoil with a rd ball than a 54, The 45 ball weighs @ 125 gr and the 54 about 230. this with a much heavier charge I would say makes the 45 about half the recoil of the 54. This would depend on the weight of the gun and the felt recoil can be affected by the width of the but plate, comb design, drop at heel, barrel length and a number of other factors. The 32 is barely adequate for squirrels though as a hunting rifle :o). I have a 32,.40, 45, & 50 that I love to shoot but am building a new .45 flint as a good balance between comfort and power. I also like the Green Mtn twist of 1 in 60 of their 45 barrels. just my .02 Greg Sefton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" <tjewell@home.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Rum horns and canvas seams Date: 16 Feb 2001 11:42:08 -0500 Hello the camp, I need input/opinions on two things. First, would a "rum horn" fit into a 1835 trappers persona? Second, I have two 5' X 10' pieces of canvas I need to sew together for a diamond shelter. Anyone have any experience with which type seam is most water resistant? While on the subject, is a diamond shelter historically correct or is it an accepted modern idea? Thanks, Tim tjewell@home.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nathan Offutt <srf90@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rum horns and canvas seams Date: 16 Feb 2001 09:28:41 -0800 (PST) You might consider just making a simple tarp. No need for loops and such. that way it can be set up to fit the camp site vs adapting the site to fit the shelter. i believe that the dedicated diamond shelter is a buckskinner invention, but it is easy to set up a tarp that way. In that case, should not pose any authenticity problems in even the most hard core camp. If you are carrying it on your back and using it by yourself, 10x10 is perhaps a little on the large side. 8x8 is plenty and every fraction of a lb you don't have to carry helps. As for seams, a flat felled seam was commonly used to construct clothing and other cloth items. It seems to work fine keeping the water out (at least as well as can be expected from such things). Hand sewing an 8ft seam took me about half a day, if you want to go that route. --- Tim Jewell <tjewell@home.com> wrote: > Hello the camp, > > I need input/opinions on two things. > > First, would a "rum horn" fit into a 1835 trappers > persona? > > Second, I have two 5' X 10' pieces of canvas I need > to sew together for a > diamond shelter. > Anyone have any experience with which type seam is > most water resistant? > While on the subject, is a diamond shelter > historically correct or is it an > accepted modern idea? > > Thanks, > Tim > tjewell@home.com > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rum horns and canvas seams Date: 16 Feb 2001 10:02:57 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 8:42 AM > Hello the camp, > > I need input/opinions on two things. > > First, would a "rum horn" fit into a 1835 trappers persona? Hey Tim, This is just my opinion for what it's worth. I would think that a rum horn or similar probably is not very likely something that 1835 trappers had with them. Rum and ardent spirits were taken to Rendezvous and certainly traded there and at various Forts but from what I have read, trappers did their drinking at such locations and went away to dry out. If they did carry rum and such, it would seem that it was carried in small casks. As to having a rum horn, go for it. I doubt any group of latter day lush's you run into will turn down a pull from your "rum horn". <G> Including me. In fact I'll give you a sip from my flask. <Second, I have two 5' X 10' pieces of canvas I need to sew together for a diamond shelter. Anyone have any experience with which type seam is most water resistant? A flat felled seam works good but you can get by with a simple overlap (like a shingle), double stitch line. The critical element is how tight the stitch holes and whether the seam is sewn with natural fiber thread that will swell with the canvas. As to the whole of the project, wash and shrink the fabric, sew it up with whatever seam you like, treat it if you care to. I'm finding that the lime and alum treatment that came out of George Washington Sear's book on "Camping and Wood Craft" works well though it does not make the canvas water repellent, just keeps the water from dripping through. The canvas will get wet. <While on the subject, is a diamond shelter historically correct or is it an accepted modern idea? Probably an accepted modern idea. There doesn't seem to be much comment in journals of trappers setting up shelters with canvas except that which was carried to Rendezvous and perhaps by expeditions and by "rich" tourists. I hope that helps. I'm heading out in a few minutes for a winter camp. I'll be thinking of you all while I set by the fire tonight under my "diamond" shelter. <G> Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jedediah Smith's wife Date: 16 Feb 2001 13:45:58 EST In a message dated 2/15/1 07:33:23 PM, Casapy123@aol.com writes: <<Has anyone seen references to Jedediah Smith having an Indian wife named Mary? >> Sources: The West of Wm Ashley 2 Journals of Smith Genealogical Library - LDS Church Salt Lake City, Utah No mention of any spouse. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jedediah Smith's wife Date: 16 Feb 2001 12:23:48 -0700 Jim, Interesting. I have never heard any reference to Jedediah having possibly been married. I have done quite a bit of study on Jed, as I known you have, and I just can't imagine when he could have gotten married. Not before he left for the mountains...possibly before he left for Santa Fe? Some Honeymoon! Hey, maybe he married a younger sister of Jose Maria Echeandia! That's why the Governor didn't like him! Anyway, a good question and on the topic, thanks for posing it. "Teton" Todd D. Glover www.homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@brier.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rum horns and canvas seams Date: 16 Feb 2001 16:20:03 -0500 > <While on the subject, is a diamond shelter historically correct or is it an > accepted modern idea? In one of the Book of Buckskinning, the "diamond shelter" is listed, and it shows several ways of setting it up so that it protects the user against the elements... I believe they said it was an "old" idea... I'll find the book and look it up... Ad Miller Alderson, WV ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@brier.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rum horns and canvas seams Date: 16 Feb 2001 20:18:15 -0500 >While on the subject, is a diamond shelter historically correct or is it > an accepted modern idea? Ok... the Book of Buckskinning II has a chapter devoted to shelters, however nothing is mentioned about diamond flys. I believe it wasin Book I that it was covered very well... and of course, that is the only one I can't find. Heh... my wife says she picked it and Book VI up and put them away.... can't remember where... *sigh* In Book II, is does say though, that the "lean to" is a mocern design, and refers to the Baker and Whelan styles... page 234. Ad Miller Alderson, WV ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jedediah Smith's wife Date: 16 Feb 2001 18:28:14 -0700 Jim, Do they say which tribe his wife might of been from? I don't see any records of him having any children, let along a wife, but it is possible. He did have (I think) three brothers in the west at the same time, see "The Beginning of the West", Louise Barry, Kansas State Historical Society. But many men had "wives" in the west, but weren't around to help raise the off springs. Might be good to trace the lineage, compare with dates and areas that he traveled in. Could be. I get about three inquires a month on people tracing their famous ancestors and some are legit. mike. Casapy123@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone seen references to Jedediah Smith having an Indian wife named > Mary? I'm trying to track down the source of that. I have found two > different folks spouting that date to the 1860s. Neither is related to Smith > so it doesn't appear to be a family story. Anyone that might know of other > sources, please let me know. > > Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 > P.O. Box 1228 > Quincy, CA 95971 > (530)283-4566 (H) > (530)283-3330 (W) > (530)283-5171 FAX > Casapy123@aol.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: WAS Boy Scouts NOW Mtn skills Date: 16 Feb 2001 21:03:00 EST In a message dated 2/14/01 10:37:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, ThisOldFox@aol.com writes: << I gave the inspirational message at the opening campfire of one of the regional subcamps. If "snowflakes" ring a bell with you, then that was me. I survived Hurricane Bob that year too. >> If it was the Southeast Regional camp, then I was there for it!!! Still got ashes from that campfire I have been waiting to add to another special event campfire! (old tradition - or am i the only one who does that?!?) I remember standing under a big piece of plastic sheeting with about 50 other boys when the worst of Hurrican Bob blew through!!! It was a total blast!!! After all these years, it is time to give back some of what I got!!! Slowly and surely, I am doing that. The skills I learned in Scouts will serve me well as I begin to trek and primitive hunt!!! That is where I learned I could live with what the Good Lord provided in the woods and not too uncomfortably if I kept my wits and took stock of my resources!!! I know that many of the skills that the mtn. men developed and handed down made their way person-to-person over the years to me!!! Would be interesting to know the "person-line" from myself back to any of those intrepid souls as they passed along their knowledge!!! -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 07:58:17 -0600 Date: 17 Feb 2001 06:58:04 -0700 Test. Lanney Ratcliff ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Interesting! Date: 17 Feb 2001 09:23:54 -0700 Hello the Camp! I did a litle reserch looking at drawings made by Alfred Jacob Miller in the book "the West of Alfred Jacob Miller" what I found was this. Page 76 intitled "Threatened Attack" I counted 10 wagons or 2 wheeled carts. Also one of his colored drawings titled "Caravan en Route" I counted 14 wagons or 2 wheeled carts. Page 177 titled "Our Camp" shows 4 Wagons and 7- 2 wheel carts, it also shows 2 wedge tents. The carts were called "Charettes". Page 149 titled "Mirage" shows 3 Wagons, it also shows a man leading 2 pack animals. The drawins show both Carts and Wagons with canvas covers. Also in the notes on page 177 it states that they formed a circumferance of 500 t0 600 feet with there wagons and carts being about 30 feet apart if this is accurate there would have been 17 to 21 vehicles. This would not include pack animals. Talk about hauling freight, how much would the trappers have traded for there next seasons? and taken to there winter camps?. YMOS Ole # 718 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Interesting! Date: 17 Feb 2001 11:51:19 EST In a message dated 2/17/1 09:27:34 AM, olebjensen@earthlink.net writes: << . . . . .if this is accurate there would have been 17 to 21 vehicles. This would not include pack animals. Talk about hauling freight, how much would the trappers have traded for there next seasons? and taken to there winter camps?.>> And that was just for Wm. Drummond Stewart to haul his bath tub, an arsenal of grand weapons, hams, brandied peaches, and a list of "more" longer than your arm . . . RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Interesting! Date: 17 Feb 2001 12:19:44 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_5954.5aac.2bb4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Ole, So what you're perhaps saying is, if in your portrayal, your "Persona," you happen to be one of the men traveling with Stewart and were one of the privileged few, you had access to all manner of niceties. Or if you were coming in to Rendezvous in the mid to late 30's traveling with the wagons you may have had access to many of the goods aboard? Or, is your point that the wagons carried all sorts of heavier items which were thus available to the average trapper? I must agree that the rendezvous supplied by wagon brought more "stuff," and that the company brigades packed along more of this stuff than the small bands of Free Trappers. That is why I have always felt it important that a re enactor have a developed story or persona which targets who he is. Otherwise the re enactor is tempted to lay claim to anything which crossed the Missouri. If your persona is an 1827 newly hired Ashley man, don't be bandying around exotic goods like canned sardines and when questioned say "Capt Stewart give em to me." Many re enactors (and that's what we all are) shy away from developing a persona. I've heard someone say "I'm a grown man. I don't want to make up some make believe story." I laughed until I had tears. The very fact that he had historical based clothing and equipment on and was strutting around in public was a clear declaration that he was playing a Mountain Man. Yet when asked who he was, he responded "I'm Joe Blow." "What do you do Joe?" "I work for the power company." "Oh, do all people who work for the power company dress like that?" "Oh, ha ha" says Joe " Heck no, this weekend I'm a Mountain Man!" "Excuse my ignorance, but how do you make the transition from lineman to Mountain Man on the weekends?" With the proud smile on Joes face sagging a little he says "Well, I guess what I meant was I play a Mountain Man." "Oh o.k. I'm getting it now. So what time period does this Mountain Man your playing live in?" " Well...ah.. you know...1820-1840. I'm what you might call the Average Mountain Man." "So how old was the average Mountain Man Joe" "You mean Me? or the real Mountain Men" "Well you I guess, I thought you were the average Mountain Man." "Yeah well, I'm 53, but the real average Mountain Man wasn't." "Huh? I'm getting confused. Let's see, if you're 53 and portraying a average Mountain Man between the years of 1820-1840, ahh... let's see, that means you were born between ah.. 1767 to 1787. Is that right?" "Heck No! I ain't that old c'mon!" By this time the sarcastic tourist can see that he is having a battle of wits with and unarmed man and excuses himself saying "Have fun Joe." and while walking off mutters "I didn't know mountain men wore Acme Engineer boots." A simple well thought out persona guides the development of a re enactor and helps allow for certain items to be carried along. Be it part of a rendezvous supply train, a trapping brigade, a band of free trappers, a Bents Fort hunter, a clerk at Fort Union etc. This wasn't meant specifically for you Ole, just some ramblings on a Saturday morning. Now to get some work done. "Teton" Todd D. Glover www.homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html ----__JNP_000_5954.5aac.2bb4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bottomMargin=3D0 leftMargin=3D3 rightMargin=3D3 topMargin=3D0> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Hey Ole,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what you're perhaps saying is, if in your portrayal, your "Persona,= " you=20 happen to be one of the men traveling with Stewart and were one of the=20 privileged few, you had access to all manner of niceties. Or if you = were=20 coming in to Rendezvous in the mid to late 30's traveling with the = wagons=20 you may have had access to many of the goods aboard? Or, is your point that= the=20 wagons carried all sorts of heavier items which were thus available to the= =20 average trapper? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I must agree that the rendezvous supplied by wagon brought more "stuff= ,"=20 and that the company brigades packed along more of this stuff than the = small=20 bands of Free Trappers. That is why I have always felt it important that a = re=20 enactor have a developed story or persona which targets who he is. = Otherwise the=20 re enactor is tempted to lay claim to anything which crossed the Missouri. = If=20 your persona is an 1827 newly hired Ashley man, don't be bandying around = exotic=20 goods like canned sardines and when questioned say "Capt Stewart give em to= =20 me."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Many re enactors (and that's what we all are) shy away from developing= a=20 persona. I've heard someone say "I'm a grown man. I don't want to make up = some=20 make believe story." I laughed until I had tears. The very fact that he had= =20 historical based clothing and equipment on and was strutting around in = public=20 was a clear declaration that he was playing a Mountain Man. Yet when asked = who=20 he was, he responded "I'm Joe Blow." <EM>"What do you do Joe?" </EM>"I work= for=20 the power company." <EM>"Oh, do all people who work for the power company = dress=20 like that?" </EM>"Oh, ha ha" says Joe " Heck no, this weekend I'm a = Mountain=20 Man!"</DIV> <DIV>"<EM>Excuse my ignorance, but how do you make the transition from = lineman=20 to Mountain Man on the weekends?" </EM>With the proud smile on Joes face = sagging=20 a little he says "Well, I guess what I meant was I play a Mountain Man." "<= EM>Oh=20 o.k. I'm getting it now. So what time period does this Mountain Man your = playing=20 live in?"</EM></DIV> <DIV>" Well...ah.. you know...1820-1840. I'm what you might call the = Average=20 Mountain Man." "<EM>So how old was the average Mountain Man Joe"</EM> "You = mean=20 Me? or the real Mountain Men" <EM>"Well you I guess, I thought you were the= =20 average Mountain Man." </EM>"Yeah well, I'm 53, but the real average = Mountain=20 Man wasn't."</DIV> <DIV>"<EM>Huh? I'm getting confused. Let's see, if you're 53 and portraying= a=20 average Mountain Man between the years of 1820-1840, ahh... let's see, that= =20 means you were born between ah.. 1767 to 1787. Is that right?" </EM>"Heck = No! I=20 ain't that old c'mon!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By this time the sarcastic tourist can see that he is having a battle = of=20 wits with and unarmed man and excuses himself saying <EM>"Have fun Joe."</= EM>=20 and while walking off mutters "<EM>I didn't know mountain men wore Acme = Engineer=20 boots."</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A simple well thought out persona guides the development of a re = enactor=20 and helps allow for certain items to be carried along. Be it part of a=20 rendezvous supply train, a trapping brigade, a band of free trappers, a = Bents=20 Fort hunter, a clerk at Fort Union etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This wasn't meant specifically for you Ole, just some ramblings on a=20 Saturday morning. Now to get some work done.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Teton" Todd D. Glover<BR><A=20 href=3D"http://www.homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html">www.homestead.= juno.com/tetontodd/index.html</A><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML> ----__JNP_000_5954.5aac.2bb4-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Interesting! Date: 17 Feb 2001 15:11:38 -0800 'Teton' Todd wrote : A simple well thought out persona guides the development of a re enactor and helps allow for certain items to be carried along. Be it part of a rendezvous supply train, a trapping brigade, a band of free trappers, a Bents Fort hunter, a clerk at Fort Union etc. Well said Todd, If a person takes the time to develop a personna and carries the gear that a person of that station in life would have carried, then he/she presents a much more believeable character. For most of us it is much easier to concentrate on carrying what the common man had, but that certainly limits what we carry, and that is a personal choice. Another benefit of developing a personna is that when tayloring one's gear in that direction you avoid spending a tremendous amount of money on stuff that in later years will end up in a closet gathering dust. I have certainly been guilty of that. Hell, I've given away enough stuff away to outfit a fair sized brigade. Those who contend that if it was available in the east then it might have been in the mountains, are only fooling themselves and the new folks who are camping with them. There is a saying that, " 'mights' are on a hen's butt, and they are real hard to find." The documentaion of what is or isn't appropriate is out there. A tremendous amount of it is on Dean's website. All one has to do is take the time and effort to go get it. Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Interesting! Date: 17 Feb 2001 18:56:12 EST In a message dated 2/17/2001 4:09:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, yrrw@airmail.net writes: << Those who contend that if it was available in the east then it might have been in the mountains, are only fooling themselves and the new folks who are camping with them. There is a saying that, " 'mights' are on a hen's butt, and they are real hard to find." The documentaion of what is or isn't appropriate is out there. A tremendous amount of it is on Dean's website. All one has to do is take the time and effort to go get it. >> Mights are there but probably's are too. Not just in the east but in St Louis (and other settlements) at the stores that outfitted people heading for the mtns. The documentation is scant. I still go with what probably was available to them and what they very likely would have used whether it was "documented" or not. Just my $.02 though. People aren't that differnt today than they have always been. Think about it. :o) Greg Sefton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Interesting! Date: 17 Feb 2001 17:12:40 -0700 Greg, I've been thinking about it, and I'm not quite sure I see your point about people not being so much different then as now. I keep coming up with the thought that "Yeah if there's a better way then certainly they would have used it if it was available. Whoops, did I just recoin the phrase "If they'd had it, they'd a used it?" Not what I intended. I'd be interested in your list of "Probablies." "Teton" Todd D. Glover www.homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nathan Offutt <srf90@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Interesting! Date: 17 Feb 2001 16:55:02 -0800 (PST) Documentatation for the sort of items that were actually taken West has gotten pretty good over the past few years. What can be lacking are detailed descriptions and actual surviving examples. That is where, in my opinion, some theorizing is acceptable. Some knowledge of styles and such is very importaint however. The theory some subscribe to that "it is made with correct materials and techniques, so it must be correct" just doesn't hold water. As an example, consider car styles in the last 40 years. the techniques for forming sheet metal into car bodies haven't changed much. Would a 2000 model pickup look out of place if it were transported back to 1960? People from different times are often very different in the details even though their most fundamental concerns are much the same. One area in which modern thinking commonly creeps in is in regards to comfort items. What we need to be comfortable is different from what the mtn. man was accustomed to. It is very easy to think we "need" many items that really are not necessary. Consider what might be neccesary for survival and go from there. >Mights are there but probably's are too. Not just > in the east but in St > Louis (and other settlements) at the stores that > outfitted people heading for > the mtns. The documentation is scant. I still go > with what probably was > available to them and what they very likely would > have used whether it was > "documented" or not. Just my $.02 though. People > aren't that differnt today > than they have always been. Think about it. :o) > > Greg Sefton > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Interesting! Date: 17 Feb 2001 19:29:10 -0700 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3065282950_155423_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Todd, There seems to be a lot of jumping to conclusions and the bringing up of old arguments which is better than some of the more resent discussions. Stewart was a guest and tagged along with the caravan which was taking trade goods to the 1837 Rendezvous. The wagons,carts and pack annimals were not all for his supplies. I think that most were for Alcohol,Gun powder and goodies to trade for furs. The Fur Co. had high hopes of filling those wagons and carts for the trip back to St.Louis. Now then add the Hudson Bay Co. and the supplies they braught to the area and the competition for the available furs and you have a lot of trade items available. Now the comment about having a persona are right on target, but I got what I wanted from this thread which was to get back to a more meaningful discussion concerning the Fur Trade!. YMOS Ole # 718 ---------- Hey Ole, So what you're perhaps saying is, if in your portrayal, your "Persona," you happen to be one of the men traveling with Stewart and were one of the privileged few, you had access to all manner of niceties. Or if you were coming in to Rendezvous in the mid to late 30's traveling with the wagons you may have had access to many of the goods aboard? Or, is your point that the wagons carried all sorts of heavier items which were thus available to the average trapper? I must agree that the rendezvous supplied by wagon brought more "stuff," and that the company brigades packed along more of this stuff than the small bands of Free Trappers. That is why I have always felt it important that a re enactor have a developed story or persona which targets who he is. Otherwise the re enactor is tempted to lay claim to anything which crossed the Missouri. If your persona is an 1827 newly hired Ashley man, don't be bandying around exotic goods like canned sardines and when questioned say "Capt Stewart give em to me." Many re enactors (and that's what we all are) shy away from developing a persona. I've heard someone say "I'm a grown man. I don't want to make up some make believe story." I laughed until I had tears. The very fact that he had historical based clothing and equipment on and was strutting around in public was a clear declaration that he was playing a Mountain Man. Yet when asked who he was, he responded "I'm Joe Blow." "What do you do Joe?" "I work for the power company." "Oh, do all people who work for the power company dress like that?" "Oh, ha ha" says Joe " Heck no, this weekend I'm a Mountain Man!" "Excuse my ignorance, but how do you make the transition from lineman to Mountain Man on the weekends?" With the proud smile on Joes face sagging a little he says "Well, I guess what I meant was I play a Mountain Man." "Oh o.k. I'm getting it now. So what time period does this Mountain Man your playing live in?" " Well...ah.. you know...1820-1840. I'm what you might call the Average Mountain Man." "So how old was the average Mountain Man Joe" "You mean Me? or the real Mountain Men" "Well you I guess, I thought you were the average Mountain Man." "Yeah well, I'm 53, but the real average Mountain Man wasn't." "Huh? I'm getting confused. Let's see, if you're 53 and portraying a average Mountain Man between the years of 1820-1840, ahh... let's see, that means you were born between ah.. 1767 to 1787. Is that right?" "Heck No! I ain't that old c'mon!" By this time the sarcastic tourist can see that he is having a battle of wits with and unarmed man and excuses himself saying "Have fun Joe." and while walking off mutters "I didn't know mountain men wore Acme Engineer boots." A simple well thought out persona guides the development of a re enactor and helps allow for certain items to be carried along. Be it part of a rendezvous supply train, a trapping brigade, a band of free trappers, a Bents Fort hunter, a clerk at Fort Union etc. This wasn't meant specifically for you Ole, just some ramblings on a Saturday morning. Now to get some work done. "Teton" Todd D. Glover www.homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html <http://www.homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html> --MS_Mac_OE_3065282950_155423_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: Interesting!

Buck.

--------------BA341565F7330FC90A041F0B-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ethan Sudman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE Date: 04 Feb 2001 14:29:36 -0600 Why not? It's better that way. Otherwise people don't have any idea what you're talking about when you reply to a previous message. - Ethan Sudman (ethansudman@home.com) ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 2:00 PM > Please don't quote all the preceding messages when positng to this list. > PLEASE!!!! > > David Brown & Kristin Poulsen > Wollendael > 4419 Gore-Subligna Rd. > Summerville, GA 30747 > > To be stupid, selfish, and have good health are three requirements for > happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost. - Gustave Flaubert > > dbrown@wavegate.com > http://www.2crows2.com > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ethan Sudman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research Date: 04 Feb 2001 14:33:33 -0600 I went to Williamsburg about a year ago. I very much enjoyed it, and learned a lot from it (I visited Washington, D.C. on the same visit and went to part of the Smithsonian Institute; I wasn't all that impressed by it, and think that Chicago's museums easily compete with - and probably outdo - the Smithsonian). Unfortunately, I never got to go to Jamestown for lack of time :-((. I'd recommend about two days in Williamsburg if you're just looking to see everything. If you're looking for more, stay longer :-)). Sincerely, Ethan Sudman (ethansudman@home.com) ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 9:19 AM > > In a message dated 2/3/1 06:10:09 PM, EmmaPeel2@aol.com writes: > > <>(for colonial > research) > > Its been 40 years since I was in that area . The Jamestown re-build was just > finished. 'twould be nice to re-visit. > Thank you > RJames > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Geisinger" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! Date: 04 Feb 2001 13:01:27 -0800 >Have made containers like these will have to measurer one to give you the specs on the ratio - melted lead container to powder, after a few attempts we got real close to what they had.< Buck, It is great to know that my memory has not gone the way of my belt line. Where did you find dimensions for these lead containers? (historical ref. please) How did you seal your containers? (again ref. please). I too, attempted these experiments. The variable that I could not nail down was the thickness of the lead sheets. Once you calculate the volume of the powder, it is relatively simple to develop a list of possible container sizes and shapes. Unfortunately, many of the sizes and shapes are possible depending on the thickness of the lead sheet. My recollection is that there is not a reference available to state the sizes of the original containers, the shape (round, square, etc.) or the volume of powder held; I may be wrong on this one though. YMOS PoorBoy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Geisinger" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE Date: 04 Feb 2001 13:05:02 -0800 Klahowya Ethan, >Why not? It's better that way. Otherwise people don't have any idea what you're talking about when you reply to a previous message.< It is only necessary to quote a line or two, to make everyone else aware of what you are responding to. Quoting entire messages only uses up valuable bandwidth, and makes the archives difficult to use. YMOS PoorBoy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility? Date: 04 Feb 2001 15:08:53 -0600 Poorboy, In the archive of this list you will find numerous documented to the period recipes I have transcribed. Work arounds have also been provided for some materials no longer available or advisable. John... At 09:34 AM 2/4/01 -0800, you wrote: >Klahowya my Friends, > >Yes, Turp & Linseed is IMHO the best. Also a thought on the availability of >various oils in the Rocky Mountains. Since wiping sticks were brought into >rendezvous, I would surmise that they were probably already treated by the >supplier, and we would have to consider the oils available in St. Louis. A >second thought would be has anyone ever found documentation of treating >wiping sticks, tool handles and the like? What do some of the old carpentry >sources say for treating handles. Perhaps if we can find an original recipe >favored by the pre-1840 pioneers than we would have our answer. It would >seem reasonable that the gunsmith would either treat a large batch himself >or purchase them from a carpenter/supplier already treated. Thus having >them treated and available to walk in customers and or expedition suppliers. >Perhaps if no one has any existing research on this one it may be a project >that I will add to my list of 372 ongoing projects. And yes, my wife says I >am just that anal. >YMOS >PoorBoy > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research Date: 04 Feb 2001 15:21:40 -0600 Dick, Sturbridge Village, Portsmouth Naval Museum, Deerfield Village, Plymouth Plantation, Winterthur Museum, Montecello, Mount Vernon, Constitution Hall, Annapolis, Norfolk, Concord, Salem. It's pretty tough to go anywhere back there without tripping over a bunch of history. Daniel Webster country, Rip Van Winkle Bridge, you could spend a month in Philadelphia alone. How much time have you got? How much territory do you plan to cover? Not colonial: just my favorites: Connor's Prairie 1836, Heye Foundation, Greenfield Village. There's a few to get you started -- though the Heye isn't as much fun to get to; as when it was in the middle of Harlem. John... At 10:38 AM 2/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >To research colonial period: Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! Date: 04 Feb 2001 13:31:56 -0800 If I remember correctly, (don't have time to look up, am taking a break from digging fence post holes....yes dear...I'll get back to digging soon....) the L&C lead powder cannisters were threaded, which would make them cylindrical. They took a dunking in the river, and the powder remained dry, much to rhe relief of the capt'ns..... hardtack Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnel fat? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:20:01 EST In a message dated 2/3/1 11:58:17 PM, hawknest4@juno.com writes: <<28 X 15lb of lead is ===about 420 round balls in 54 cal or 28 gage 24 X 15lb of lead is ===about 360 round balls in 58 cal or 24 gage average hunting load for either gun is from 80 to 100 gr lets say 90 gr average---which gets you about 75 shots to the pound including spillage and loss>> . . . . and more . . . . Great stats, Mike. And great stuff to remember for planning. I really like story problems, but I'm glad you took the time on this one so now I will never have to. Sincere (which means I really mean it) thanks. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:39:47 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 09:08:27 AM, EthanSudman@home.com writes: <> Ethan - I thought all Chicago was just gangsters, pizza, and the stock exchange. Tell me about the museums. Dick James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:45:12 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 12:07:37 PM, EmmaPeel2@aol.com writes: <> et merci a vous, ausi Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:46:06 EST In a message dated 2/4/01 12:28:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, EthanSudman@home.com writes: << Why not? >> Ethan, like so many things, its matter of moderation. It seems many do like you did in your reply. It seems you/they don't know you can select specific text by highlighting it, and then hit reply and only that portion will come through. The way you did it (and the way Two Crows was talking about) all the text, headers, footers, etc come through and takes up unnecessary time to read and additional bandwidth. Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:48:56 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 12:48:10 PM, conner1@qwest.net writes: < powder>> Better a lot too much than a little bit short. Besides, you can always trade the darn stuff. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:51:02 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 12:56:55 PM, dbrown@wavegate.com writes: <> THANK YOU DAVID!!! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research Date: 04 Feb 2001 18:01:16 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 02:22:58 PM, kramer@kramerize.com writes: <> John - this preliminary planning. The question: If I had a chance to go to one place - what would that one place be?? I can handle that. I have neither the cash nor the time left on earth to go to all the great places Dick J. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:24:55 -0600 Dick, Williamsburg! It puts you in the vicinity of Montecello, Jamestown, Norfolk, Mount Vernon and more. It is plenty to see. The University of Virginia is also worth a visit (designed by Thomas Jefferson). Rick Guthrie is still in the area. A drive down the Blue Ridge is worthwhile to get a feel for the topography, flora and fauna. John... At 06:01 PM 2/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >John - this preliminary planning. The question: If I had a chance to go to >one place - what would that one place be?? I can handle that. I have >neither the cash nor the time left on earth to go to all the great places >Dick J. "A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government on Earth... and what no just government should refuse." --Thomas Jefferson ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ethan Sudman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antique Dealers Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:31:04 -0600 I can see both sides of that one... - Ethan Sudman ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 9:37 AM > > The point a lot of people seemed to miss is that if you KNOW what > something > > is worth and you pay a fraction of it's value because the other person > > DOESN'T, that is dishonest because you are taking advantage of the other > > person's deficiency. > > I still fail to see where anyone was cheated. If I pay what a seller is > asking for something, and > he/she makes a profit, and is happy, then how is it taking advantage of some > one? I see it all > the time at the Flea Market here. My wife and I make our living buying > items at garage sales > and flea markets and reselling them on eBay and such. I have many times > picked up a piece > of West Virginia glass for $40 for as little as $3. I paid the seller what > they were asking and > did not hggle on the price. Why would I say... "Oh my, that is worth $40, > not $3, so here is > $40 for it."...?? At an auction, my wife bought a box lot of books... in > this was a signed copy > of a book from the late 1800s. She paid $7.50 for the box... the book sold > for $73. Are you > saying she should have gone to the auctioneer and given him the profit? Not > likely!! That is > called business in my opinion. > > > I guess if it was me who bought that old picture in New England for $10, > the > > one that turned out to have a signed copy of the Declaration of > Independence > > under it and sold for $$$$ at auction, I would have gone back to find the > > person I bought it from and shared the profit. > > Let me understand this... you buy a picture at an old second hand shop, and > behind > the pix is a true copy of the Declaration of Independence. You turn around > and sell > the copy for say $6,000,000 via Southerby's. You are going to go back to > this dealer > and give him say half the profit? Why?? Neither of you knew it was there, > and at the > end of the original deal, you were both happy... he made a profit on the > picture, and > you got a picture you wanted. Neither of you knew that the copy was there in > the first > place. How is that cheating anyone if you keep the profit? > > > Maybe Buckskinning isn't the place for me after all. > > Dear Lady, I disagree with you on that. Buckskinning is full of wonderful > people, and > truly honest people... as I pointed out in a previous post. I think that > some of us just > do not have ideals that correspond with yours, and if that is the case, then > you are in > for a rude awakening in real life, for not many will ever meausre up to your > standards. > No matter what I have done over the years, I can still look at myselfin the > mirror in the > morning when I shave. My father always taught me... "To thine own self be > true..." I have > lived by that, and am not ashamed of anything I have done in my life... > including paying > $3 for a $40 piece of W Va glass. > > Ad Miller > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE Date: 04 Feb 2001 19:00:02 EST Hey! That's a great article, Frank (I had to erase Mike - that was my uncle's name). There was a big archive to pick from and none had your name on it, but with logic I got it right the first time. That was good coverage, though. They have you right in the middle of all the good stuff - as it should be. Knife & Hawk seems to be on the upswing - less politically dangerous than - " guns". Did you happen to see the hour-long A&E production for "Competition" featuring the knife and axe at the Fort Bridger Rendezvous last year? They showed a lot of Bridger Rendezvou (the one I started - in fact I have about 2 frames in the film) but the core of the things was a story centered around Moki Hipol and his quest for "braggin'rights" over a three day aggregate throw. And ya know whut? I got this really neat package in the mail yesterday - all these little tabloids about knapping. That was certainly thoughtful of you. I thought I would read through them all and by association walk away from the papers an expert. Lots of nice articles though and the advertisements are a real boon. I notice these are a periodical. If you wish I can copy the parts I need (need?) and return them to you. Was there any of thes you would recommend/ (A guy could go broke wanting ALL that's advertized there. Bean time. Gotta go. More later Dick ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Buck Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:03:33 -0700 SWzypher@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/4/1 02:22:58 PM, kramer@kramerize.com writes: > > < much time have you got? How much territory do you plan to cover?>> Mr. James, W.C.Fields said "he spent a week one night in Philadelphia", poor booze and poorer women. B. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank V. Rago" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE Date: 04 Feb 2001 19:17:57 -0800 Dick, Glad you liked the article. We had a very fun day, taught two newbies how to throw knives, hawks and shoot bows. One gent even ended up getting a very good deal on a recurve. I did catch the last 15 minutes of the A&E special. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Some of those guys could really throw. I did not know which rendezvous it was though. You do not need to make copies of the knapping info. as I think I have memorized the issues. We are having a knap in early April in this area and I plan on picking up a bunch of rock. Seems to go real fast. Waldorf seems to have a few good books on knapping. If I was to purchase a book it would be one of his. I am lucky as I was taught by a neighbor. You can make the pressure flakers and the copper billets. The pressure flakers are made from a piece of hardwood with a copper ground wire stuck in the end. Works great. Talk to you later, Frank > Hey! That's a great article, Frank (I had to erase Mike - that was my > uncle's name). There was a big archive to pick from and none had your name > on it, but with logic I got it right the first time. That was good > coverage, though. They have you right in the middle of all the good stuff - > as it should be. > > Knife & Hawk seems to be on the upswing - less politically dangerous than - " > guns". Did you happen to see the hour-long A&E production for "Competition" > featuring the knife and axe at the Fort Bridger Rendezvous last year? They > showed a lot of Bridger Rendezvou (the one I started - in fact I have about 2 > frames in the film) but the core of the things was a story centered around > Moki Hipol and his quest for "braggin'rights" over a three day aggregate > throw. > > And ya know whut? I got this really neat package in the mail yesterday - all > these little tabloids about knapping. That was certainly thoughtful of you. > I thought I would read through them all and by association walk away from > the papers an expert. Lots of nice articles though and the advertisements > are a real boon. I notice these are a periodical. If you wish I can > copy the parts I need (need?) and return them to you. Was there any of thes > you would recommend/ (A guy could go broke wanting ALL that's advertized > there. > > Bean time. Gotta go. More later > Dick > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Buck Conner" Subject: MtMan-List: Lead canisters Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:22:25 -0700 Jay Geisinger wrote: > Where did you find dimensions for these lead containers? > My recollection is that there is not a reference available to state the sizes > of the original containers, the shape (round, square, etc.) or the volume of > powder held; I may be wrong on this one though. > YMOS > PoorBoy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PoorBoy, We talked to Hanson and he felt the information floating around was not real good at the time, so we found some pure lead (according to my hardness tester) in 3 foot square sheets, 3/16 " thick. Made cylinders, sweat the seams together and sweated in a bottom, we started with a pound of power, but changed to 2 - 2-1/2 and 3 pounds in getting a feel for the size of the container (no documentation). We made several sizes using figures much like John supplied, emptied the container, sweat in a top sheet of lead with a hole for a cork sealed with beeswax. We tested the containers loaded with powder to see if they would leak by throwing them in the horse tank for a few hours, didn't leak. Will go out to the shed and measurer one for size, will have to empty it out to tell you how much powder it holds. Oh, a side note, with a little cannon fuse, they make one hell of a bomb when rolled down a hill into a stream or pond. Really good wake the camp up, Crazy Bear rolled one of my cylinders into the pond at LaVeta Nationals at about day break, boy that got the camp up when that much powder went off. Those where the wild days with John Baird was in charge and Step and Crazy Bear where his "Cat Soldiers". Scary !!! Buck. Going to the shed. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility? Date: 04 Feb 2001 19:43:00 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 10:22:52 AM, poorboy@ieway.com writes: <> This is not "old carpentry". It is "old Shoshone". Hardwood is virutally non-existant in the Rockies compared to the eastern forests. Ya gotta do with what you have, so for hafting, these Indians used such things as red birch, chokecherry, and gambrel oak. They were worked dry or green but when done they were heated by a fire repeatedly and daubed with grease (any kind. You like bear? we'll say "bear") In this process any moisture was driven out and the space replaced by grease before there was spliting and checking of significant amounts. The Indian who told me about it (family home between Pocatello and American Falls, Idaho) said his grandma made axe handles that way. "And they lasted?" "For years". "The last one was really old but someone left it in the driveway and it got run over." (Driveway definition: two tracks of bare earth leading through the sage and rabbit brush up to the house.) RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) Subject: MtMan-List: Tobacco used as insect repellant (1700-1843) Date: 04 Feb 2001 19:43:24 -0500 (EST) boil leaves to extract tar and nicotine. then use liquid? paste? as a rub-on for man and horse? or as a stain for stocks, dye for clothing? any other non health hazard uses? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Michigan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: MtMan-List: List etiquette Date: 04 Feb 2001 16:50:18 -0800 > I can see both sides of that one... > > - Ethan Sudman Ethan, Quoting the whole or the majority of anyone's post in one's answer is not necessary. And admittedly we all make this mistake at one time or another along with failing to change the subject line. Suffice it to be said that if one knows how to "cut and paste" with their pc then they should pick out a couple lines of the other person's post to "quote" so we know what they are referring to and then add their thoughts. Since we have all read the other persons post once already and don't need to read it again, we are asking nice that it not be totally included. If someone does not know this technique on their pc I'm sure any number of us would be willing to help someone learn it. We don't have a moderator on this list. We are left to "police" ourselves. We thus must all cooperate. Thanks. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research Date: 04 Feb 2001 19:51:19 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 04:26:18 PM, kramer@kramerize.com writes: <> I used to live there, you know. Too "youthful" (young and dumb) to realize I was living in an historic paradise 43 years ago. Dick ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research Date: 04 Feb 2001 19:53:23 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 05:05:14 PM, conner1@qwest.net writes: <> . . . 'twasn't quite what I had in mind for historic research. Thanx, though. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lead canisters Date: 04 Feb 2001 20:11:46 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 05:19:55 PM, conner1@qwest.net writes: <> Hey, Buck - - - sounds like your are quite the fisherman! RJ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: don shero Subject: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have Date: 04 Feb 2001 19:12:58 -0600 A man with a serious use of a knife would need a steel, to keep it sharp. The steel doesn't sharpen a knife, it straitens the rolled over edge. Any skilled butcher wouldn't be without one. Wonder if they were listed. Don ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tobacco used as insect repellant (1700-1843) Date: 04 Feb 2001 20:59:06 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:43 PM > boil leaves to extract tar and nicotine. then use liquid? paste? as a > rub-on for man and horse? or as a stain for stocks, dye for clothing? > any other non health hazard uses? Jon, Tobacco makes a decent dye on cloth, it comes out a dark tan color. Boil 1lb. cured leaves ( add 1oz. cream of tartar to water), for 1/2 hour. Simmer material for a good 1/2 hour to dye, use alum as mordant. I've used it as an insecticide but not as a repellent. Boil leaves for 1/2 hour and add 1 tsp. dish detergent (to help it stick to plants) and 1 tblsp. ground black pepper. Spray this dirctly on plant or around the base of the plant. I don't know the health implications of using it on yourself or animals but I have been told not to use it on any plant you can ingest. I've also heard that South American natives use it in a very concentrated form as a poison on their blow gun darts and arrows for hunting birds and small mammals. I'll have to see what I can find about using tobacco as a repellent. I'll let you know if I come up with anything. I remain your most humble servant, Tim Jewell tjewell@home.com back east in Baltimoretowne ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:47:22 -0500 poor boy I have a original powder can that holds just less than a lb of powder---it is enough lead to fire a 50 cal and if you use the old powder to lead ratio it will even come close for a 54 or even a 40---look in the muzzle loading caplock rifle by ned roberts believe there is s reference of powder to lead rathio---a 50 cal is about 36 to 37 bullets to the lb can should weigh about 4to 4 1/4 lb including powder--- for one lb of powder--- rough guess--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! Date: 04 Feb 2001 16:48:03 -0500 linda --- the cloth they are speaking of is cheesecloth if i am not mistaken---but was used as a misquito net or for a fly screen---just my opinion of course--- hawk On Sun, 04 Feb 2001 09:13:46 -0800 Linda Holley writes: > What was mosquito netting made of from that time period. Seeing the > list and being > from South, that really caught my eye. Have been told by a Dog > Soldier once, that > netting was not "period". That had never crossed my mind before. > > Linda Holley > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:23:19 -0500 gosting wolf---dont understand your logic---one lb of powder gets wet 50 lb of powder gets wet---powder will dry out if you give it a chance---and it will work same as before it was wet---just break up the lumps--- hawk On Sun, 4 Feb 2001 14:21:03 EST GHickman@aol.com writes: > hawknest4@juno.com writes: > > << to the like of me cant understand why you want so much > powder and not enough lead to shoot with it its just simple logic > or > something in the back of my mind---that i must be missing >> > > Powder gets wet it won't work. Lead gets wet still works. > > Ghosting Wolf > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! Date: 04 Feb 2001 17:32:34 -0500 buck i concure with your thoughts---I have gotten powder wet and poured it out of the horn into a skillet or pan then when dried put it back---didnt notice any differenve in the way it shot---still feel if you need powder then have at least 95 % lead to shot with it---thats just my opinion---why 3 or 4 times as much powder as needed---look at the L & C requirements---they had powder for about 80 to 85% of the lead--- check my numbers---inquiring minds want to know---some things dont pass the so what or logic test????? "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tobacco used as insect repellant (1700-1843) Date: 04 Feb 2001 18:11:09 -0800 I don't know the dosage, etc...but boiling cigerettes can produce a concentrated dose that can kill. according to G. Gordon Liddy....... hardtack Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnel fat? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: List etiquette Date: 04 Feb 2001 21:08:59 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 05:47:59 PM, rtlahti@email.msn.com writes: <> It wasn't many weeks ago I came on line - green as grass - and stumbling through the process. Someone - perhaps you - sent me a similar message which stirred me to "fuss about a bit" until I could handle the suggestion. I remain grateful to whomever it was took the time to "visit" me with a litttle constructive criticsm. Thank you. Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE Date: 04 Feb 2001 20:20:00 -0600 It seems you/they don't know you can=20 > select specific=20 > text by highlighting it, and then hit reply and only that portion=20 > will come=20 > through. Only if your mail program is set up that way. I use Miro$oft's Lookout, = er, I mean Outlook, and that's not how it behaves. I have to = specifically cut and paste what I want. Todd/MO ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE Date: 04 Feb 2001 21:37:44 EST > Only if your mail program is set up that way. I use Miro$oft's Lookout, er, > I mean Outlook, and that's not how it behaves. I have to specifically cut > and paste what I want. To quote using AOL, hold the left mouse button down and pass it over the text you want to quote. This will highlight it. Then hit the reply button and the highlighted text will be transferred to the reply as quoted >> text. If you use Microsoft, hit the reply button. It will by default quote the entire message. This is what 99% of you do. Hold down your left mouse button and pass it over everything you DON'T want to quote. This will highlight that text. Hit the backspace key and all highlighted text will be erased. Leave only the few lines which you DO want to quote. As a third option, you always have an "edit" button in the taskbar at the top. You can highlight text, copy it............then paste it into your email and manually add the >>'s. As a fourth option, you can highlight text and then hit your right mouse button and and edit menu will pop up from which you can cut and paste. Now that you know how to do it, let's please not see it anymore. Bout time you were as particular with your correspondence as you are with your research. Now what I mean? One of the above methods has got to work for you. While you are at it, find the "options" button in the task bar and set up your email program to text/plain and us/ascii font. Turn everything else off and that will get rid of the double postings of the same message on one email. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Geisinger" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! Date: 04 Feb 2001 19:05:44 -0800 >I have a original powder can < Hawk, I am very interested in more info about this "powder can". "Original" to what time period? Documented how? Sorry if I am a little skeptical, but I have never heard of an existing example of what went with the L&C boys. YMOS PoorBoy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jody & Scott" Subject: MtMan-List: Powder quantity Date: 04 Feb 2001 20:06:12 -0600 Regarding the quantity of lead and powder taken- I seem to recall (dangerous I know) that when the L&C exped. returned to the 'States,' that they had enough powder and lead remaining to make the trip again. Sound logic for both hunters and the military: that whatever other supplies you may run out of, you can at least get game and protect yourself with powder and lead. Like everyone else, just MHO... Scott C sjsdm@conpoint.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tobacco used as insect repellant (1700-1843) Date: 04 Feb 2001 19:02:28 -0800 (PST) > > > boil leaves to extract tar and nicotine. then use > liquid? paste? as a > > rub-on for man and horse? or as a stain for > The "Black Leaf - 40" you used to be able to buy, was a Nicotine extract. ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Geisinger" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! Date: 04 Feb 2001 19:21:34 -0800 >don't have time to look up....the L&C lead powder canisters were threaded, which would make them cylindrical. They took a dunking in the river, and the powder remained dry, much to the relief of the capt'ns..... hardtack< This is great info....When you have time please provide me with the documentation for the threaded tops and the river dunking. I know it has been awhile since I spent time reading the journals, and there are so many different versions, it would be great to have some idea where to start this adventure. YMOS PoorBoy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: what a trapper would have Date: 04 Feb 2001 20:13:37 -0700 Frank, I have found flint and other hard rocks in the mountains that will work as well. However I was thinking that each trapper would have a dozen each, but I forgot to write all of my thought's down. YMOS Ole # 718 ---------- >From: "Frank Fusco" >To: "Mtn. Man List" >Subject: MtMan-List: what a trapper would have >Date: Sun, Feb 4, 2001, 12:45 PM > > Ole put together a good list. However, I would increase the number of >flints considerably, mebbe to five dozen to cover not only wear but losses. >Also the knives would make good trade goods and are subject to loss and >breakage, mebbe a dozen each type. None of this would add much weight. >Several fire steels as insurance against loss. > Seems to me that gun fixins, knives and fire start stuff would be the >bare essentials to survival and carrying a few pounds extra would make >sense. > As Hawk would say, jest my humble opinion a course. >Frank G. Fusco >Mountain Home, Arkansas > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Continue the trip? Date: 04 Feb 2001 20:23:39 -0700 Buck, Suppose these four trappers traveled south east from Fort Hall to the North slope of the Uintas where they built a cabin before the end of October, they could then have built a crude ice house and put in stores of game for the winter. Each trapper would have picked a diferent drainage and trapped that drainage through the winter until the end of March. At the begining of April they could have broke up camp and taking what provisions they had left and some plews gone to Fort Laramie to trade for more supplies and then headed back west trapping the North side of the Uinta range. In late June they would have headed for Rendezvous for the get together and to sell there plews for as high a price as they could get. Just some ideas and thoughts. YMOS Ole # 718 ---------- >From: "Buck Conner" >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have! >Date: Sat, Feb 3, 2001, 8:42 PM > >"Ole B. Jensen" wrote: > >> Allen, >> I have pondered youre question for a few days, I have looked at the lists >> you have received. >> Senario= 4 men (without squaws) leaving fort Hall in 1830 around August 20. >> The following is my list. >> 2 pair footwear ea >> 3 t0 4 horses or mules per man >> 1 riding saddle >> 3 pack saddles >> 6 to 8 traps >> 1- long arm ea >> 1 or 2 pistols ea >> 50 lbs powder for 4 men >> 15 lbs bar lead (4 men) >> bullet molds as needed per person >> 1- bullet laddle >> 500" x1/2" rope >> 5 lbs soap >> 1 dozen gun flints >> 1 skining knife >> 1 scalping knife >> 4 wool blankets per person >> 4 yards patch material >> 4 lbs tobaco >> Chewing tobaco for horse wounds >> 1- fire steel per person >> 2 sets tin pots/copper/cauldron >> 2-frying pans >> 1-felling axe >> 1-hand axe >> 500'0" linnen thread >> 12 sewing needles >> 1 doz awls >> 1-cup each tin or copper >> 3-shirts each >> 2-pair trousers or knee breaches ea >> 4lbs coffee >> 4lbs suggar >> 10lbs salt >> 1/2 lb pepper >> 10 lbs floure >> 1 journal per man for record keeping and notes >> 6- lead pencils >> 20 hanks of beeds for trade >> vermilion for trade >> 4 12'x12' pcs of canvas >> 2-wedge tents >> 1-hat ea >> 1-Bible >> 1-compass >> toiletries as group wanted >> 1-capote ea, or some kind of coat >> 1-west ea (optional) >> socks (optional) >> fishing gear (optional) >> reading glasses as nessecarry >> smoking pipe's 1 ea or moore >> >> There are probably things I have forgoten, all the horses were there to hall >> plews out after the season was over. >> YMOS >> Ole #718 >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >Hey Ole, > >Did you ever look at what the L&C group carried according to Jefferson's letter >to Lewis 1803. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Inside the Corps has three sections: Circa 1803, To Equip an Expedition and the >Corps. > >To Equip an Expedition provides a partial list of the supplies Lewis and Clark >brought on the expedition. > >Once he was named by President Thomas Jefferson to head the Corps of Discovery, >Meriwether Lewis began preparations for the long trip ahead. Much of that >preparation involved education; in the months prior to his departure, Lewis >would learn astronomy, botany, navigation, medicine and biology, among other >scientific disciplines. > >In addition, Lewis spent his time accumulating all the supplies that the >expedition was going to need. He wrote list after list of provisions, which >included guns, ammunition, medical supplies and scientific instruments. >While still on the East Coast, Lewis accumulated almost two tons of goods using >the $2,500 Congress had allocated for the expedition. > >The following list is only a sampling of the supplies taken west by the Corps of >Discovery, but it should give a sense of what an undertaking the expedition was. > >Mathematical Instruments: >surveyor's compass >hand compass >quadrants >telescope >thermometers >2 sextants >set of plotting instruments >chronometer (needed to calculate longitude) > >Camp Supplies: >150 yards of cloth to be oiled and sewn into tents and sheets >pliers >chisels >30 steels for striking to make fire >handsaws >hatchets >whetstones >iron corn mill >two dozen tablespoons >mosquito curtains >10 1/2 pounds of fishing hooks and fishing lines >12 pounds of soap >193 pounds of "portable soup" (a thick paste concocted by boiling down beef, >eggs and vegetables) >three bushels of salt >writing paper, ink and crayons > >Presents for Indians: >12 dozen pocket mirrors >4,600 sewing needles >144 small scissors >10 pounds of sewing thread >silk ribbons >ivory combs >handkerchiefs >yards of bright-colored cloth >130 rolls of tobacco >tomahawks that doubled as pipes >288 knives >8 brass kettles >vermilion face paint >33 pounds of tiny beads of assorted colors > >Clothing: >45 flannel shirts >coats >frocks >shoes >woolen pants >blankets >knapsacks >stockings > >Arms and Ammunition: >15 prototype Model 1803 muzzle-loading .54 caliber rifles >knives >500 rifle flints >420 pounds of sheet lead for bullets >176 pounds of gunpowder packed in 52 lead canisters >1 long-barreled rifle that fired its bullet with compressed >air, rather than by flint, spark and powder > >Medicine and Medical Supplies: >50 dozen Dr. Rush's patented "Rush's pills" >lancets >forceps >syringes >tourniquets >1,300 doses of physic >1,100 hundred doses of emetic >3,500 doses of diaphoretic (sweat inducer) other drugs for blistering, >salivation and increased kidney output > >Traveling Library: >Barton's Elements of Botany >Antoine Simon Le Page du Pratz's History of Louisiana >Richard Kirwan's Elements of Mineralogy >A Practical Introduction to Spherics and Nautical Astronomy >The Nautical Almanac and Astronomical Ephemeris a four-volume dictionary a >two-volume edition of Linnaeus (the founder of the Latin classification of >plants) tables for finding longitude and latitude map of the Great Bend of the >Missouri River > >Circa 1803 puts the expedition into a historical and political context, >investigating popular misconceptions of the West, as well as Jefferson's >motivations for exploring it. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Wonder how much of this got lost or stolen ? A trapper a few years later would >have cached 2/3 of it outside St. Louis. > >Buck. > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fringe Date: 04 Feb 2001 22:25:13 EST In a message dated 2/3/01 3:12:33 PM, SWzypher@aol.com writes: << First - it dried out quicker that the rest of the garment (being more exposed to air) and so drew the moisture out of the rest of the material, >> One other one Dick....you could cut it off and tie em together for a cord/wang... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have Date: 04 Feb 2001 21:26:24 -0600 Some modern knife companies make a slick-as-glass steel that does precisely what you describe. Old steels were in fact a specialty file with the "teeth" running the length of the steel. They cut metal, they do wear out. With some looking they can still be found. Steels are why so many old knives are worn hollow in the middle. With a proper steel there is little to no need for a stone. Things like meat are cut easier with a steel sharpened knife than one honed like a razor. The easiest test is to sharpen two identical blades one on a steel the other honed and stropped. Then cut some cork with both. Different tools benefit by sharpening specific to the task. John... At 07:12 PM 2/4/01 -0600, you wrote: >A man with a serious use of a knife would need a steel, to keep it >sharp. The steel doesn't sharpen a knife, it straitens the rolled over >edge. Any skilled butcher wouldn't be without one. Wonder if they >were listed. > > Don "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin 1759 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tobacco used as insect repellant (1700-1843) Date: 04 Feb 2001 22:35:07 EST To use tobacco as a stain for wood, extract it with an ammonia solution. Put the ammonia and a plug of tobacco in a glass jar and let it set, until no more color can be extracted from the solution. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have Date: 04 Feb 2001 22:44:38 EST > Some modern knife companies make a slick-as-glass steel that does precisely > what you describe. Chicago Cutlery offers one. Our's came with the set of knives I bought for the wife. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have Date: 04 Feb 2001 22:46:35 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 06:21:51 PM, deshero@pionet.net writes: <> I have seen buffalo skinner outfits (Old Trail Town - Cody, Wyoming) that were a leather roll, two knives (skinner - butcher) and a stone, but no steel. They used to have one similar in appearance - identical in content - at the museum at Colter Bay. RJames p.s. don't get me wrong - I like steels, too. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tobacco used as insect repellant (1700-1843) Date: 04 Feb 2001 22:57:07 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 06:59:25 PM, tjewell@home.com writes: <> Tobacco boiled down to a concentrate - but not a paste - and then put on the skin of rats in testing resulted in cancer. By this same logic - if you would put it on the skin of insects perhaps they would get cancer too, and leave you alone. Or on your own skin ? ? ? nah! If you want a great bug repellant for plants but don't want to pay the price for tobacco, just harvest what you can from old butt cans. Boil it down, strain it, add detergent, pepper, beer or other exotic ingredients and spray it on plants - but not any part you intend to eat. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE Date: 04 Feb 2001 23:07:44 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 07:38:53 PM, ThisOldFox@aol.com writes: <> You got my vote. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pronghorn" <21stcentury@altamontks.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man List Date: 04 Feb 2001 22:04:29 -0600 Test..... Cheers: Robert B. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: what a trapper would have Date: 04 Feb 2001 23:12:45 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 08:14:04 PM, olebjensen@earthlink.net writes: <> Chert is great and scattered all over Wyoming. One of the attraction of firelock guns to Indians is that they could knap their own "flints" (couldn't mountain men?) and were not handicapped by a "no caps" situation. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fringe Date: 04 Feb 2001 23:20:42 EST In a message dated 2/4/1 08:27:35 PM, SWcushing@aol.com writes: <> Sounds like you've done it, too. Handy when you are dressing out deer, tie the end of the bowel closed with one, cut the orfice free from the hide, et.al. and pull the unit up through the pelvis without getting "doo-doo" on your meat. Same with the other "unit" - tied up and freed you can pull it up through the pelvis, tie off the top of the bladder so it doesn't leak, cut it free and gently lift out the whole so your meat doesn't get tainted with "squirts & drips". If you are a better hunter than me (who isn't), after a few seasons buckskin fringe can start to look a little "seedy" with all the gaps in it, but - that just could be your claim to fame! RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: What a Trapper Would Have Taken! Date: 04 Feb 2001 21:29:06 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C08EF1.8082EB60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Has anyone totaled up the cost of this list?of what a trapper would had = >taken with him,lets say not counting gun and horse. I think you all = might > be surprised at total cost. Traphand Rick Petzoldt=20 I prefaced my list by saying something about the cost Traphand. However, = I thought that it would be more imformative to list everything then if = the money was not available you would start paring down the list. This = is logical isn't it?=20 WY ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C08EF1.8082EB60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

- Ethan Sudman (ethansudman@home.com) ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C09B75.785B4460-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: insults and bickering Date: 20 Feb 2001 19:48:20 -0600 Now, here's a question. I went out to Ft. Osage a few weeks ago, and I'll be working as a militia volunteer going forward. Can anyone point me to good sources to look at for the early 1800's here in Missouri? Most of the stuff I've got and read seems more geared either toward the Rockies, or back toward the Middle Country. Local shops here'bouts are geared toward the Civil War. Seems like there's a gap, where nothing happened here along the Missouri. I know that can't be true, the War of 1812 got fought, and the fort was built for a reason, although I think it was mostly for trade, and little fighting took place hereabouts. Anybody done any diggin on the 18-teens time period? Todd These folks seem to have done a lot of Missouri research. Try them. Lanney Ratcliff http://www.rootsweb.com/~mopionee/index.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I'm back :) Date: 20 Feb 2001 20:52:47 EST In a message dated 2/20/01 5:43:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, EthanSudman@home.com writes: << I'm back. It got oftly boring off list :-). >> As you have been reading today, I'm sure you see it hasn't been boring here at all Ethan. LMAO. Welcome back! Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ethan Sudman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I'm back :) Date: 20 Feb 2001 20:23:53 -0600 Thanks Barney :-). It's good to be back. - Ethan ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 7:52 PM > In a message dated 2/20/01 5:43:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, > EthanSudman@home.com writes: > > << I'm back. It got oftly boring off list :-). >> > > As you have been reading today, I'm sure you see it hasn't been boring here > at all Ethan. LMAO. Welcome back! Barney > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I'm back :) Date: 20 Feb 2001 20:30:50 -0600 > Hello everyone. > > I'm back. It got oftly boring off list :-). > > - Ethan Sudman Hey Ethan, Glad you decided to rejoin us! Victoria ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity Date: 20 Feb 2001 21:41:34 -0500 Hi everyone, I've been closely reading Nat Wyeths journals and came acroos this little tidbit that may be why flintlocks were/are so popular: 18 Aug. 1833 - We saw some large bands of elk but our hunters were more conceited than good which I have generally found to be the case with the hunters in this country they are not willing that a new hand should even try, and are far from good shots themselves and commonly have miserable flint guns which snap continually and afford an excuse for not killing. Just an observation. Ducking for cover in Baltimore, Tim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Stewart Subject: MtMan-List: insults and bickering Date: 21 Feb 2001 21:45:06 -0500 "Obviously, judging by the "call to brawl", I was wrong about some of you. Name calling, threats and insults just show how immature some of us really are..maybe its a good thing that we enjoy being alone in the...." My apologies to the gentleman whose text and addy I quoted in my earlier post..My comments were in no way targeted to him, but rather to us all as a group. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canadian fur trade museums Date: 20 Feb 2001 19:46:43 -0700 I should note that, in Eastern Canada, there is a museum which specializes in the North West Company, the Nor'Wester and Loyalist Museum in Williamstown, Ontario (near Cornwall) http://glen-net.ca/museums/norwesters.html I haven't been there myself, but I understand they have David Thompson's desk, and some other items owned by Nor'westers, because many of them retired to that area. I should also add, in defense of Canadian museums, that since the fur trade is considered a cornerstone of Canadian history, most large Canadian museums have major exhibits relating to the fur trade. The Provincial Museum of Alberta displays a large number of items excavated from fur posts, and also has a nice diorama of Samuel Hearne and his guide, Mattonabbee. One of the self-proclaimed 'treasures' of the Glenbow Museum is its collection of three Beaver Club medals, including William McGillivary's (and another one in pristine condition). The Royal Ontario Museum has lots of cool stuff from the underwater fur trade archeology project that was done in the 1960's, although I have no idea what's on display. And of course the Archives of Ontario houses David Thompson's original journals. My favorite fur-trade-only museum hardly deserves the term 'museum'; it is actually the small interpretive center at Rocky Mountain House National Historic Park, here in Alberta. The Alberta surveyors' professional association generously arranged to purchase, and then donate, a set of antique surveying instruments (sextant, astronomical tables, compass, etc.) which is wonderfully representative of what David Thompson would have used. They also have a large selection of items on display that were actually excavated at Rocky Mountain House (NWC, 1799-1821) and Acton House (HBC, 1799-1821), and other good stuff. Actually, a Canadian Museum of the Fur Trade would be a wonderful project. If it were credible enough, then I'm sure it could get a lot of things from other museums on permanent loan (like those extra Beaver Club medals), because they're not usually on display; they're just gathering dust on a shelf in a back room. Fascinating question, Lee! It's really made me think. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: MtMan-List: insults and bickering Date: 20 Feb 2001 19:27:36 -0800 Todd, I would think it would be easy to portray a Militia Man at Ft Osage. With being so close to the East, cloth items, etc... would be much more attainable. I spent a night in the soldiers barracks of Ft Osage, the next day we put our canoes in the water and pulled out at St Charles 6 1/2 days later..... what a trip, and all the better because Grady Manus let us spend a night in the fort before we 'shoved off'. He gave us a private tour that night after closing. I've only been there once, but was mightily impressed. I hope to be able to return someday. Ya know William Clark suggested the placement of the fort as it commanded a high point at a bend in the river, it's in his journals. Is Karalee Tearney still doing business at Arrow Rock? Might be a good place to check out? The phone number I have is (816)837-3261from an old catalog. Also see if you can find a book called "The Sword of the Republic" The US army on the frontier 1783-1846 by Francis Paul Prucha University of Nebraska Press ISBN# 0-8032-8713-5 Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnel fat? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John & Nancy McKee" Subject: MtMan-List: bickering...off topic Date: 20 Feb 2001 21:59:01 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C09B88.5544BE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Whatever happened to adding 'off topic' to the subject line {as per = Brother Pat Q}? first, it would make the majordomo's job a lot easier = and secondly for people to just skip over the one sentence 'chats' that = seem to eventually lead to tempers and namecalling? Once in awhile it's good to be reminded that this is all just one = big hobby for big kids with guns with occasional insights and knowledge. = Well, back to work (after two days away and over 100 emails). Long = John ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C09B88.5544BE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Whatever happened to adding 'off = topic' to=20 the subject line {as per Brother Pat Q}? first, it would make the = majordomo's=20 job a lot easier and secondly for people to just skip over the one = sentence=20 'chats' that seem to eventually lead to tempers and = namecalling?

Once in awhile it's good = to be=20 reminded that this is all just one big hobby for big kids with guns with = occasional insights and knowledge. Well, back to work (after two = days away=20 and over 100 emails). Long John

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C09B88.5544BE80-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saws Date: 20 Feb 2001 23:10:45 EST In a message dated 2/19/01 12:32:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, troberts@gdi.net writes: << ight be a thin spot in the logic that they were necessarily rare then, just because originals are rare today. >> I agree with that suppositon. Used to see crosscut saws everywhere as little as 40 years ago. Now they are not impossible but getting harder to find.At least in this part of the woods. What will it be like another 100 years from now? Maybe the same principle applies to the frame saws mentioned. -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tom roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saws - Now Off Topic Date: 20 Feb 2001 23:21:16 -0500 As with most things, even those worth saving, time takes it's toll. I've got an old 6 ft. pit saw, wooden handles long since rotted away, that I've had for many years. The only reason I still keep it (hanging in my shop) is to remind myself that there were folks who worked one hell of a lot harder then most of us ever will! I really pity the poor b*****ds who had to use this tool, especially the guy on the bottom. Tom HikingOnThru@cs.com wrote: > > In a message dated 2/19/01 12:32:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, > troberts@gdi.net writes: > ....Used to see crosscut saws everywhere as little > as 40 years ago. Now they are not impossible but getting harder to find.At > least in this part of the woods. What will it be like another 100 years from > now? Maybe the same principle applies to the frame saws mentioned. > -C.Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saws Date: 20 Feb 2001 23:31:26 EST > I agree with that suppositon. Used to see crosscut saws everywhere as little > as 40 years ago. Now they are not impossible but getting harder to find.At > least in this part of the woods. What will it be like another 100 years from > now? Maybe the same principle applies to the frame saws mentioned. Russell"s book Firearms, Tools, Traps, etc has in the back, Appendix B. It is Astor's inventory of tools and blasmithing equipt. on the Columbia river 1812-1813. This detailed inventory was taken prior to the sale of Astoria to the North West Co. For saws, it lists: 3 Cross cut saws 3 Whip saws (used) 3 Fret saws (used) 1 Compass saw 3 Compass saws (used) 1 Hand saw (used) 1 Sash saw (used) 3 Saw sets 2 Saw sets (used) The used items were in use by the company's carpenters and field crews. Seems like 3 of each is the magic number in most cases. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John L. Allen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis&Clark and Mt Hood! Date: 20 Feb 2001 21:53:40 -0700 Ho, the list! If I might drag us back to the original comment that started all the hooraw-- With reference to the "missing" mountains Hood and Adams on the 1814 published version of William Clark's map: blame the copyist, Samuel Lewis, not the cartographer, William Clark. Clark's manuscript clearly shows both Hood (named) and Adams (unnamed). Hood had been shown on maps since the publication of George Vancouver's journals in the 1790s and was well known to Lewis and Clark before they even left St. Louis. When, on Friday, October 18, 1805, Clark described seeing "a mountain bearing S.W. Conocal form Covered with Snow" he was describing Mount Hood from the east. He was, at this point, literally back in the "known world". There are, by the way, a number of other significant variations between the published version of the Clark map and the original manuscript. None of the "corrections" inserted by Samuel Lewis improved the accuracy of Clark's original--quite the opposite, in fact. The original William Clark 1810 map is in the Coe Collection at the Beineke Library at Yale University; Yale reproduced it full size (about 3' X 4') a number of years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if some copies (4 separate sheets) weren't still available from the Yale University Press or some reputable map dealers somewhere. The good captains made an occasional mistake--but missing these two landmark peaks was not among them. WABWIRSY John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 Fax: (307) 742-0886 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 4:31 PM > Speaking of Lewis and Clark... > > I've been looking over my 1814 map of Lewis and Clark's track (copied by > Samuel Lewis from the original drawings of Wm. Clark) and guess what?!!? > ....there ain't no Mt Hood! ...and no Mt Adams either. He's got Mt Rainer, Mt > St Helens, even Mt Jefferson but no Mt Hood or Adams. Those guys blind or > what?!?? > > Now, I know it gets cloudy and rains a bit around here, but hell, I can see > them hills from my camp once in awhile! Mebbe they just popped up after them > boys headed back East.... > > Magpie > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ssturtle1199@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: insults and bickering Date: 21 Feb 2001 00:12:18 EST Rudy: Hate to have to be asked to be taken off the history list, but with the hours I work, and the time that I can allot to the computer the drivel is more than I can bear. 300 or more emails at a time would be worthwhile if I could add to my knowledge, but the recent Bs is more than I can allow my time to be wasted. Please keep me on the AMM list. Thanks Till trails cross Turtle ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) Subject: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping Date: 21 Feb 2001 01:08:28 -0500 (EST) Michigan Out-Of-Doors Magazine, March 2001, pp.44-46; 52-54. Coyote article & 8 color photos (including cover shot) by Mark Werner. Spring Beaver Trapping article & 1 color photo by Gregg Schefferly. "The Coyote, Super Survivor - Anglo explorers first called him the "prairie wolf", the one who watched over the Great Plains. The Navajos referred to him as "God's dog". In 1823, the famous naturalist, Thomas Say, gave us the Latin name, Canis latrans, meaning barking dog. For over 80 years, folks in the northern regions labeled him the brush wolf. ... Michigan hunters and trappers harvest an average of 4,000 coyotes annually ... Yet, because of juvenile dispersal and recolonization, coyotes have only further expanded their range. ... Humans have yet to learn to live in accordance with the land, as the coyote does." " a pack basket full of big 330 Conibears". The Michigan Trappers Association convention will be August 3-5 on the Alma fairgrounds. ... The Northern Great Lakes Fur Harvesters Association convention will be Sept. 22-23 at Kinross. ... The Upper Peninsula Trappers Association convention wil be Aug. 3-5 on the U.P. State Fairgrounds, Escanaba. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Michigan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 21 Feb 2001 02:58:11 EST Jin-o-ta-ka You might want to give that .54 another try, with less powder. Start out with 50 to 60 grains of powder. You'll find it doesn't kick bad with a light load. Jill my better half shoots a .54. She stands 4' 11 1/2" on her tip toes weighs 108 lb. soakin wet with rocks in her pockets. We started her out with 50 grains for target shooting and when she's hunting she uses 80 grains. She says she never fells the kick when shooting at game. She has taken Deer, Elk and a Moose with her 54. The only big game animal I would use a .45 on is deer. Just my 1 cent worth. See ya on the trail Crazy Cyot ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping Date: 21 Feb 2001 03:31:39 EST In a message dated 2/20/1 11:09:08 PM, JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net writes: <<"The Coyote, Super Survivor - Anglo explorers first called him the "prairie wolf", the one who watched over the Great Plains. The Navajos referred to him as "God's dog". >> Don't know where the author got his stuff but Navajos call them "skin walkers". They can be evil or mischevious humans transformed into animals to further their own cause and Navajos won't have anything to do with them including touching their hides or any other part. As for me, I had one for a pet and my feeling is you couldn't ask for a more lovable little friend than a coyote or a wolf (had a total of 42 of them). RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 21 Feb 2001 03:40:54 EST In a message dated 2/21/1 12:58:46 AM, GazeingCyot@cs.com writes: <> The field load for a Civil War musket was 60 grains and that was pushing a 505 grain Minie ball. Years ago a group of us were shooting these for accuracy and found the best grouping was with 30 grains. My feeling is that the urgency to "really stoke 'er up" is over played. They have Jim Bridger's horn and charger at the Fort in Wyoming. His Charger throws 53.5 grains which probably works out one grain of powder for each tick of caliber. Loosely translated: .54 cal . . . use 54 grains for a hunting load. This is not a modern chronograph study - it is history. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Traphand@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: insults and bickering Date: 21 Feb 2001 06:31:44 EST Get ahold of me off list address below I all so deal with fort oasge are know people who can help you out. Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: "Pioneer" lists Date: 21 Feb 2001 07:08:37 -0600 Linda wrote "What area are you looking for??? Cowboy, Native american, Single shot or Wild west? etc. None of the above - just plain old common homesteaders, the kind of folk that never shot anybody (well, almost never), just came west with their families to quietly eke out a living from the land as the fur trade died out. I have found on the Web the groups you mentioned but I have not found the "less colourful" people. Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) > "Best, Dianne" wrote: > Can any of you fellas (or gals) point me to a list that deals with a later > time period, like 1850-1900, other than "old west"? > > Thanks! > > Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) > P.S. As to all the bickering, just ignore it. Unruly boys settle down if they don't have an audience. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: poncho Date: 21 Feb 2001 07:24:13 -0600 While reading one of Terry Johnston's books, I saw a reference to a "gum poncho". The book setting is slightly later than 1840 [Gold Rush time] but I was wondering if anyone knows what a gum poncho is and whether they might have been found during the RMFT period or earlier. Frank Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: saws Date: 21 Feb 2001 07:25:23 -0600 On reading the discussions about saws, it occurred to me that furniture has been made with sawn wood for many centuries. It is not unreasonable to surmise that some saws may have traveled west with trappers, traders and others during the RMFT period. Frank Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: poncho Date: 21 Feb 2001 08:29:53 -0500 I saw an original "gum poncho" in a museum, dated from the mid 19thC. It resembled a modern day poncho, (no hood). It was made of heavy cloth with gum rubber painted on it. This one was cracked and very dried. If I remember, this "gum rubber" never really hardened and was a sticky, somewhat gooey item in the heat... I don't know about it's existence in the RMFT, but it was an issue item in the ACW. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Date: 21 Feb 2001 08:49:13 EST In a message dated 2/21/2001 3:41:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, SWzypher@aol.com writes: << His Charger throws 53.5 grains which probably works out one grain of powder for each tick of caliber. Loosely translated: .54 cal . . . use 54 grains for a hunting load. This is not a modern chronograph study - it is history. RJames >> I've seen references to a "rule of thumb" for years calling for @ 1 grain per number in loads. Probably a good place to work from. My "squirrel" load in .32 is 20 grains (3f) and is real hard on the backstrap & shortribs if I flinch. Greg ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: Tim Jewell's tarp Date: 21 Feb 2001 07:57:30 -0600 I've also used two poles crossed in a x about 3/4 of the way towards the back of the diamond fly. I had some ties on the tent that would tie into these, really opened the back of the tent. I had a 10x10 diamond fly (with flaps) that my two boys and I slept in, we were even comfortable. Only problem was that I used to light of canvas (painters cloth). Jim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canadian fur trade museums Date: 21 Feb 2001 08:18:21 -0600 Don't forget Fort William (Thunder Bay, Ont) and Grand Portage (northeastern Minnesota). If you want to go lower, there are two rebuilt NW posts, one at Pine City, Mn and the other north of Webster, WI (where there was actually a NW and XY post next to each other). Jim /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, |__| http://www.ecol.net/~lindy/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg Subject: MtMan-List: Ojiway recall 1850 tragedy Date: 21 Feb 2001 08:45:49 -0600 From "The Vision" published by the St. Croix Chippewa. Sandy Lake, Minn -- Some 4,000 Ojibwe Indians trekked to Sandy Lake in northern Minnesota 150 years ago expecting to collect money and supplies the federal government had promised them by treaty. But when the tribal members from Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan arrived in early October, tired and hungry, they found no one there to distribute the supplies. Waiting for two months with no shelter and little foodd, 170 died of disease, exposure, starvation and other causes. After finally receiving partial payments on December 5, 1850, many headed home. But with low temperatures. frozen waterways and a foot of snow on the ground, 230 died en route. In 1850 the federal government ordered the distribution site moved from La Pointe (Madeline Island in Lake Superior near present day Bayfield, WI) to Sandy Lake. It was an attempt by the federal government to remove Indians from other areas into Minnesota. Hey, maybe this will put some of the bickering in perspective. Remember this list is part campfire, if it gets a little to hot, just sit back a minute and it'll cool down, there's no need to be fannin' the flames. My opinion. Jim /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, |__| http://www.ecol.net/~lindy/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: poncho Date: 21 Feb 2001 07:00:33 -0800 Frank, There were rubberized ponchos made in Mexico from very early on. The spanish used them in florida in the 1600's. raw rubber was painted on cloth. It was not vulcanized so was sticky , as Dennis says. It also dried out and cracked eventually. These are called Mangas now, from the place in Mexico were they are made. I had one, until it dried out so bad as to be useless. They only documentation I could find was a quote from Narcissa Whittman's journal talking about her 'India rubber pocho" serving as table and table cloth when spread on the ground to dine upon. This was in 1836. hope this helps. hardtack Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnel fat? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dining Cloth Was Poncho Date: 21 Feb 2001 10:04:03 -0500 "'India rubber pocho" serving as table and table cloth when spread on the ground to dine upon" Hardtack, This reminds me of a book of memoirs I have from Emmanuel Hatfield. He was born in the South Fork on Parched Corn Creek (Tn) in the late 1700's and moved to the wilds of Indiana in 1815 or 17 (don't remember now). But he mentions all throughout the book from his childhood with his family to his later years as ALWAYS having a "Dining Clothe" with him. Any time he was in the woods.. Just a square piece of clothe to eat off of. A little bit of "civilization" no matter what he was doing.. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: palmer@netdor.com (Palmer Schatell) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: insults and bickering Date: 21 Feb 2001 08:48:34 -0500 > > O.K., I've had enough of this crap. The worlds not bad enough >having to do things that we don't want to do, some of you live your >lives trying to make everyone else miserable doing the things we enjoy >doing. I know I'm a newbie to this list, but I have seen other hobbies ruined by the confrontational and I would hate to see it again. I wholeheartedly agree with you comments. Palmer (3-Coupes) Schatell ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Monte Holder Subject: MtMan-List:Ft Osage & Arrow Rock(was insults) Date: 21 Feb 2001 09:28:58 -0600 Randal J Bublitz wrote: > Is Karalee > Tearney still doing business at Arrow Rock? Might be a good place to > check out? The phone number I have is (816)837-3261from an old catalog. Being right down the road from Arrow Rock, the Area Code is now (660). I see Ms Tearney around from time to time at events in the village. Monte Holder Saline Co MO ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dining Cloth Was Poncho Date: 21 Feb 2001 10:35:35 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > ...and moved to the wilds of Indiana in 1815 or 17 (don't remember now). But he > mentions all throughout the book from his childhood with his family to his > later years as ALWAYS having a "Dining Clothe" with him. Any time he was in > the woods.. Just a square piece of clothe to eat off of. A little bit of > "civilization" no matter what he was doing.. Hello all, Another reference to this practice (and from the RMFT) is on one of Millers paintings. IIRC it was titled "Trappers At Breakfast" (?) and shows a group of several trappers sitting around a large cloth spread on the ground waiting to eat. I also saw a reference to a Mangas in a journal or inventory in the xmission list, I wrote down the word to check on what it was but I'll be darned if I can find it now. Tim tjewell@home.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bvrlry@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: AMM Eastern rendezvous Date: 21 Feb 2001 12:08:13 EST Are you going to attend the October doins? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis&Clark and Mt Hood! Date: 21 Feb 2001 12:31:37 EST In a message dated 2/20/01 8:54:25 PM, jlallen@wyoming.com writes: << The good captains made an occasional mistake--but missing these two landmark peaks was not among them. >> Thank you John! Through all that smoke.... I got an answer....actually several. I was curious how less than 10 year after the L&C walk in the woods, the hills were not on the map. Mebbe no proof readers back then.... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM Eastern rendezvous Date: 21 Feb 2001 12:54:06 -0500 Being as how I now live in W Va., you can betthe "Mouse House" will be at the Eastern 2001.... Ad Miller Alderson, WV > Are you going to attend the October doins? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "Pioneer" lists Date: 21 Feb 2001 13:47:20 EST In a message dated 2/21/1 06:10:11 AM, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes: < time period, like 1850-1900, other than "old west"? > > Thanks! > > Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) >>> We are very heavy in lore and writings in this area as this period when the region was settled. Lots of publications and some videos, but you are going to find Brigham Young's name laced through much of it. Lots on pioneer trecks, daily life in the cabins and later, Indians, troops, etc. Interested?? RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charlie Webb Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saws Date: 21 Feb 2001 12:52:54 -0700 Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM Eastern rendezvous Date: 21 Feb 2001 16:36:24 -0800 I wish I could be there. But I will be in Great Falls, Montana for a conference on Native American Art. http://www.tipis-tepees-teepees.com/seminar_on_native_american_mater.htm Linda Holley Addison Miller wrote: > Being as how I now live in W Va., you can betthe "Mouse House" will be at > the Eastern 2001.... > > Ad Miller > Alderson, WV > > > Are you going to attend the October doins? > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity Date: 21 Feb 2001 16:28:28 -0800 18 Aug. 1833 - We saw some large bands of elk but our hunters were more conceited than good which I have generally found to be the case with the hunters in this country they are not willing that a new hand should even try, and are far from good shots themselves and commonly have miserable flint guns which snap continually and afford an excuse for not killing. Just an observation. Ducking for cover in Baltimore, Tim Tim, It's hard to tell exactly what was going thru Wyeth's mind at that point. They had been killing game in the days previous to the 18th, and the days after. It may have been that Wyeth was just disgusted with them, because apparently they were all drunk on the 16th. At that point maybe their guns were in ill repair. Possibly they did not have any good gun flints. It's a bit of a mystery. Another interesting quote was by Osbourne Russell. After he had signed on with HBC, he states that he wishes he had a rifle gun. (I'm paraphasing) They were short on meat and he was having a miserable time hitting anything with the trade guns they were issued by HBC. That statement alone would lead you to think the trade guns were of inferior quality, but HBC generally sold Barrnett Trade Guns which were the standard of the industry. But if you read on he states that the young Indian Lad he was hunting with was a dead shot with the trade guns, which leads me to believe Russell just wasn't a very good shot with a trade gun. Historical quotes are interesting because you never know exactly what the author was thinking at that particular time. Sometimes I wonder if the author was just having a lousy day . Just my thoughts. Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity Date: 21 Feb 2001 18:31:56 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- Larry, I threw that out as a combination of a little "dig" at flintlockers (don't jump on me...I'm in the middle of deciding on my first flintlock purchase) and because I found it interesting that Nat had such a strong opinion at such an early point in caplock history. > It's hard to tell exactly what was going thru Wyeth's mind at that point. > They had been killing game in the days previous to the 18th, and the days > after. It may have been that Wyeth was just disgusted with them, because > apparently they were all drunk on the 16th That is something else I was thinking about: They had been out over a year, it was before the rendezvous in 1833. I was amazed that they had any "liquor" at all at that point of their journey, much less enough to get drunk on. It makes me wonder how it was packaged and how many other parties at least tried to keep som alcohol with them between rendezvous. > Historical quotes are interesting because you never know exactly what the > author was thinking at that particular time. Sometimes I wonder if the > author was just having a lousy day . > Just my thoughts. Very true, kinda like trying to figure out whether someone is serious or joking on this thing and they didn't add any to help us figure it out. Personally I think Nat just had a big hangover. That research/documentation "bug" bit me almost as hard as the smokepole bug did. Still reading in Baltimore, Tim tjewell@home.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tim Jewell's tarp/end results Date: 21 Feb 2001 18:50:14 -0500 Hello the camp, I ended up with the ties in the center seam, hemp/leather grommets spaced along the sides and leather reinforcement for a center pole if needed. I took it out back today and tried all the differant suggestions for setting it up. The neighbor asked what it was and thought I was nuts when I told him. He told me I could borrow his Eureka tent any time I wanted. Some folks just don't get it when you try to explain this stuff to them. Thanks again for all the advise, Tim tjewell@home.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tim Jewell's tarp Date: 21 Feb 2001 18:14:56 -0600 > > Victoria, et al, First, please note that both these set-ups can also > be done with no poles by having loops on the center seam, and using correct > rope placement. > >> If you (or any other readers) have a Panther catalog, check the page > on Diamond Shelters; it has diagrams. If not, and any of you want > pics, contact me offline and I will fax or mail photocopies of the designs. >>Both are very cool. Barney Hi Barney, Thanks for your explanation. I followed it up by looking at the diagrams in my Panther Primitives catalog. Having the option of using ropes instead of poles is appealing to me. Thanks, Victoria ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity Date: 21 Feb 2001 18:26:55 -0800 Tim wrote : I threw that out as a combination of a little "dig" at flintlockers (don't jump on me...I'm in the middle of deciding on my first flintlock purchase) Now Tim, you know I would never jump on anybody, being the mild mannered person that I am. My suggestion on the puchase of your flintlock, is buy the very best that you can afford. I good flintlock is poetry in motion. A poor one can deal you more missery than you can imagine. Doesn't even make a good club. Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity Date: 21 Feb 2001 19:37:18 EST In a message dated 2/21/1 03:36:30 PM, yrrw@airmail.net writes: <> This is a bit scrambled but then his spelling and punctuation are a study in themselves I believe he was with Wyath when he had the hunting experience you described. It was later, after Wyath sold Fort Hall to HBC that he struck up with them. He does speak later of "percussioning" their guns. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity Date: 21 Feb 2001 18:57:09 -0800 R. James wrote : I believe he was with Wyath when he had the hunting experience you described. It was later, after Wyath sold Fort Hall to HBC that he struck up with them. You're right, it was after Wyeth had sold Ft. Hall to HBC. Not sure, but I think it was shortly before he hooked up with Wyeth. I remember it was winter and they were on hard times. Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Subject: RE: MtMan-List: insults and bickering Date: 21 Feb 2001 19:10:21 -0600 Thanks all. I'll follow up off list at the addresses and phone = numbers. Silly thing is, I've lived less than 30 miles from the fort = for over 20 years, and I had never been. Darn shame honestly. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of = Traphand@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 5:32 AM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: insults and bickering >=20 >=20 > Get ahold of me off list address below I all so deal with fort=20 > oasge are know=20 > people who can help you out. >=20 > Traphand > Rick Petzoldt > Traphand@aol.com >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: don shero Subject: MtMan-List: rifle and revolver caliber Jim Bridger's charger Date: 21 Feb 2001 19:03:56 -0600 Howdy, 53.5 grains may be more accurate, and capable of killing. But do you think a double {107 gr.} load would be preferable in the mountains for grizzly, elk, hostiles etc.? Don ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: poor guns have poor ways Date: 21 Feb 2001 19:17:38 -0600 Mild mannered Larry Pendleton wrote: My suggestion on the puchase of your flintlock, is buy the very best that you can afford. I good flintlock is poetry in motion. A poor one can deal you more missery than you can imagine. Doesn't even make a good club. Tim That is prime advice. Heed it at all costs. I once had a TC flinter and the cock and frizzen were so poorly engineered and/or installed that the flint dang near MISSED the frizzen altogether. The thing would fire about once in five or six shots. I explained the problem to a fellow, showed him, in fact, and he still bought it from me for more than I paid for it. Don't count on getting that lucky. Like Larry said, buy the very best your purse can stand. It isn't necessary to spend $1500 to get a good gun, but don't count on getting lucky with a cheap gun....poor guns have poor ways. It's a thicket out there, so do you homework with a vengeance. Lanney Ratcliff ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity Date: 21 Feb 2001 20:23:59 -0500 Larry wrote: > Now Tim, you know I would never jump on anybody, being the mild mannered > person that I am. > My suggestion on the puchase of your flintlock, is buy the very best that > you can afford. In my short time on this list I have gathered what a kind, gentle, soft spoken, silver tongued lot you and most of the others are . I'm pretty sure I am going to have a rifle built. I need a long pull and probably a little more drop than average. A kit won't give me that and although I have made a couple of caplocks from kits I'm not quite comfortable enough to start with a rough sawn blank. As purty as they are I don't want tons of brass and silver inlays and such. I'm leaning toward a nice trade rifle or possibly an early style Hawken. I've also thought about a 1803 Harpers Ferry style. Any thoughts on which a 1835 mountainy man might have. Also, since I'm probably going to have to visit the builder any suggestions on anybody in the Mid-Atlantic area. Tim tjewell@home.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rifle and revolver caliber Jim Bridger's charger Date: 21 Feb 2001 17:22:13 -0800 > But do you think a double {107 gr.} load would be preferable in the > > mountains for grizzly, elk, hostiles etc.? Don, Not if you can't hit anything with it. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity Date: 21 Feb 2001 20:24:42 -0800 In my short time on this list I have gathered what a kind, gentle, soft spoken, silver tongued lot you and most of the others are >>We are a bunch of 'sweet talkers' aren't we ? . I'm leaning toward a nice trade rifle or possibly an early style Hawken. I've also thought about a 1803 Harpers Ferry style. Any thoughts on which a 1835 mountainy man might have. Also, since I'm probably going to have to visit the builder any suggestions on anybody in the Mid-Atlantic area. >>Tim, The 3 stlyes of rifles you mentioned are great. Any one of them would fit your time frame well. I'm not sure what type of trade rifle you are talking about, but let me make a suggestion. The tendency for many of us is to gradually move backward in time with our personnas. Since a custom built rifle is a very sizeable investment, I would suggest a style that would fit a wider time frame. A Lancaster type rifle, which was taken and traded at the rendezvous would also be at home at a 18th century doins,where as a Hawken would be totally out of place. A Southern school rifle would also be a good choice. I don't have anything against Hawkens or Harper's Ferry Rifles, matter of fact I have a serious cravin for a Harper's Ferry. Just makin a suggestion. Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity Date: 21 Feb 2001 19:08:49 -0800 Tim, Handle and shoot a Harper's Ferry before you buy one for a primary gun. They are quite heavy. I had one, and had fun with it, but sold it as I wasn't pleased with it as a trail gun. Just one man's opinion, but get acquinted with one before you take the plunge. This is probably good advise with any gun. I'll still be happy to win Pat's Harper's Ferry (made by Paul Tidwell) in the raffle. I enjoy my cut down Dixie Poor Boy as my usual gun/shooter. I cut 7 " off the barrel, as it was awfully barrel heavy. It still has a 33 3/4" barrel in .50 cal. hardtack Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnel fat? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rifle and revolver caliber Jim Bridger's charger Date: 21 Feb 2001 21:22:56 -0700 Don, Most of my friends (me too) use about 95-110 grains for a hunting load when hunting deer and elk. About 50 grains for plinking. Some good advice is given for hunting grizzlies: "The greatest danger when hunting grizzlies is to be caught with a empty gun after having inflicted a wound not mortal. It requires coolness and composure rarely examplied to stand and calmly face a enraged grizzly, even with a gun loaded. Never be alarmed at the bear's rush, says a hunter of experience. Never fire in a hurry. The bear will always stop, rise on his hind legs and prepare to strike a sidelong blow with his fore feet. At this moment, when his head is extended, and in a position in which the ball not glance, aim between the eyes and fire, and the bear will fall dead." Hiram Chittenden page 812 volume 2 "American Fur Trade of Far West" Well, so much for good advice. I have read that the early hawken guns were regularly loaded with one grain to ball weight when hunting buffalo. (you can figure it out-most of the were .53 or .54 caliber, but if you don't want to, it is around 230 grains). My Dixie cataloge says the proof load should be around 125 grains, but I have seen and stood beside one unnamed friend who double charged his hawken on the firing line.Everyone else, stopped and asked where the cannon was. And who shot it. The bowling pin (about 100 yards out disappeared.) I'm sure that most people on this site can tell you similiar stories. I don't know if the records are correct on the large amount of powder used, or if it was just a flatlanders' story to impress them. But it came from a reputable source I found. mike. Roger Lahti wrote: > > But do you think a double {107 gr.} load would be preferable in the > > > > mountains for grizzly, elk, hostiles etc.? > > Don, > > Not if you can't hit anything with it. > > Capt. Lahti' > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM Eastern rendezvous Date: 21 Feb 2001 23:34:27 EST I know I have missed this in a big, blatant way somewhere on this list, but allow me to ask when and where the Eastern Rendezvous will be. Thanks for your understanding. -C.KEnt ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: WAS Flintlock popularity NOW - use of whiskey in the mtn.s Date: 21 Feb 2001 23:42:20 EST In a message dated 2/21/01 6:32:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, tjewell@home.com writes: << was amazed that they had any "liquor" at all at that point of their journey, much less enough to get drunk on. >> Remember guys, these folks were eating lean meat and were not likely to have much in the way of "parlor lard" on their bones. Drinking water and coffee and working hard combined with their diet was sure to make them a little more susceptible to the effects of the "aguardenty" ... especially if they went for pretty long periods without drinking any form of alcohol. If so, maybe some of the silliness and rambunctiousness most folks get past as they learn to "hold their liquor" was present and a very real thorn in Wyeth's side at that point. Thus, they may have gotten quite drunk on a relatively little of that alcohol stash saved for that special occassion. Think of a time you may have imbibed after a sabattical away from the spirits...likely you felt the effects quicker than normal and not too far into your cups!!!! Just a thought from an ex-"frat boy" (and thanks be to the Good Lord for bringing me past that hump in life's trail!!!!!) -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity Date: 22 Feb 2001 00:23:42 EST In a message dated 2/21/1 05:55:01 PM, yrrw@airmail.net writes: << Not sure, but I think it was shortly before he hooked up with Wyeth. I remember it was winter and they were on hard times.>> Russell hired on with Wyath to come west when Wyath was expecting to ge the sole supplier to the Rendezvous that year. He got beat out of the deal so went on to build Fort Hall. Russell had his experience of shooting all 25 balls in his kit and not killing the buffalo on the way out. Then he encountered a bear who rose up, placed on paw on his head and one on his shoulder and pushed him off the bank and into the water. Meanwhile his partner did get his Buffalo. Osborn stuck it out at fort Hall a couple of years and then resigned to go trap. About a year later Wyath sold out to HBC. Thats the way I remember it but I was quite young at the time. Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rifle and revolver caliber Jim Bridger's charger Date: 22 Feb 2001 00:45:14 EST In a message dated 2/21/1 06:14:24 PM, deshero@pionet.net writes: <<53.5 grains may be more accurate, and capable of killing. But do you think a double {107 gr.} load would be preferable in the mountains for grizzly, elk, hostiles etc.?>> Using a .562 round ball and 80 grains I shot a mulie uphill at over 300 yards (luck shot? you bet!) It went through two sets of ribs, lung and heart and passed out the other side (heading for Robert Redford's place). The ball didn't flatten as both entrance and exit holes were the same size. No meat was blood shot. In the mountains?? I WAS in the mountains - the same ones where they filmed Jerimiah Johnston. No problem with elk or hostiles. Griz - I don't know. Never shot one. I loaned my Zouave with a 505 grain minie ball to a friend who shot a cougar and two black bear - one hit on each. This was with 60 grains of DuPont. He had a friend who had wounded a black on this same trip with a .270. It jammed and he emptied a .22 magnum revolver with hollow points into the beast and later discovered the slugs were opening up and stopping just under the hide without entering the body cavity. A medic told me one time the power of a .45 auto is not that it smashed on through a man but that on the way through it pushes a wad of tissue and bone fragments ahead of it. IF it will stop in the man while pushing this wad - it expends its final energy in one big kick. This is what will knock a man down. This ctg. was developed after the Spanish American War when Morro warriors would charge out of the jungle with a machette after they had had several round pass on through them without stopping them. Same with the Japanese - they could take a .50 round right throught the gut and if it missed the spine - just keep on coming. No - I never shot a Japanese with a .50, but my trainer did and I am prone to believe him. (You'd have had to have been there). Somewhere in all this dialogue there should be something about what kind of charge would stop a what without using excess powder and bruising your body. You are the one to figure what you are going to kill and just how to best utilize that ball to do the job. Happy hunting (maurading, or whatever . . .) Most sincerely Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity Date: 22 Feb 2001 00:50:22 EST In a message dated 2/21/1 06:25:32 PM, tjewell@home.com writes: <> If you are having it built - go for a swamped barrel. They handle so much nicer. You mentioned a Harper's Ferry. Good. They lean this way. The Hawken tht Jim Bridger owned - now property of the Montana Histerical Society - had a barrel that tapered about 3/8" from breech to muzzle. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: poncho Date: 21 Feb 2001 10:49:24 -0500 D. believe we were into the poncho thing about a year or two ago and they were even sprouting how to make a simbalance of the rubber gum ones---some were using a painted mixture on the cloth ---believe you can buy the rubber base paint in some paint stores == several things for you to consider---also check the archives---know its there it also may be under shelters but remember it coming up about the rubber thing--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:.beckworth Date: 22 Feb 2001 04:17:38 -0500 anyone know where i can find a picture of James P. Beckworth on the net or web site "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rifle and revolver caliber Jim Bridger's charger Date: 22 Feb 2001 06:19:15 EST Well, said Mike Have ya ever heard the expression of goin "Loaded for bear" where do you think that came form. At close rang a lite load can do the job. But tryin reachin out there a little ways It's goin start droppin off real fast when pushin a large ball. You want that ball to bust bones and keep on a goin when hut large critters. (Shock is what they call it) Hurt them, put them "down " specially them ya don't want to or can't get, real close to. I have been huntin big game with a front stuffer since 1972 . Threw the years I have Learned, the hard way. Load them light better chance of fallowin blood and tracks that night. Load em hot better chance of makin meet there on the spot. Is what I say. As far as accuracy goes that is a matter of working up the load that works the best for each gun. Yes, Don I think that would be about right load for large game. A single load would be just about right for small game and man too. Depending on the gun that is. For I all so, believe in "waste not want not." There for the every day load that he carried could be a single charge. But when hunting large game you can bet he went "loaded for bear." Just my 100 Grains worth Crazy Cyot ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hsteven-pepke@webtv.net (Steve Pepke) Subject: Re: MtMan-List:.beckworth Date: 22 Feb 2001 03:53:46 -0800 (PST) Hawk, Here's one web page with a photo of Beckworth: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~kcaj/jarticles.htm Regards, Steve Pepke ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rifle and revolver caliber Jim Bridger's charger Date: 22 Feb 2001 08:26:27 EST In a message dated 2/22/2001 12:46:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, SWzypher@aol.com writes: << Same with the Japanese - they could take a .50 round right throught the gut and if it missed the spine - just keep on coming. No - I never shot a Japanese with a .50, but my trainer did and I am prone to believe him. (You'd have had to have been there). >> That's a big plus for ML rifles (within range). Big advantage in the projectile diameter which quickly increases on entering the "target". This allows it to expend it's energy where it can do the job. I recall in Vietnam, we were walking down a paddy dike when a VC jumped out of the rice and ran directly away from us. The platoon turned as if on a firing line and pumped unknown amounts of .223 ammo into the guy. You could see tracers hitting him and he was flinching but never stopped. We followed a blood trail into the tree line to a bunker where we found an empty morphine syrett (US issue) and never found the guy. He's probably mayor of Saigon now (I sure hope so). Good thing for him we didn't have a 50 cal round ball shooter on that dike. Greg Sefton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: ponchos Date: 22 Feb 2001 07:37:03 -0600 Thanks to all for the input on the "gum ponchos". I just hope that now we don't see a bunch of brightly colored ponchos being worn to r'vous with wearer claiming they are 'authentic' because the material was made by [Peruvian] indians. Frank Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:.beckworth Date: 22 Feb 2001 08:39:12 EST In a message dated 2/22/2001 4:45:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, hawknest4@juno.com writes: << anyone know where i can find a picture of James P. Beckworth on the net or web site >> There's one on the cover of Elinor Wilson's book on him. If you can't find one, let me know & I'll scan it for you. Greg Sefton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: MtMan-List: was AMM Eastern rendezvous now NRLHF EPR 2001 Date: 22 Feb 2001 10:04:12 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 11:34 PM C. Kent wrote: > I know I have missed this in a big, blatant way somewhere on this list, but > allow me to ask when and where the Eastern Rendezvous will be. Thanks for > your understanding. I think the Eastern Rendezvous this thread is talking about is The NRLHF EPR. It is not associated with the AMM that I know of, though there will probably be some AMM members in attendance. It is one of the biggest "drag and drop" events in the U.S. and it is loads of fun (usually a lot more than 3000 people there). To answer your question, it is Sept 21-30 this year and will be held in Doddridge Co. W.V. They have a great new website at http://www.nrlhf.org/epr2001/. I hope to finally meet a lot of you folks there. Tim tjewell@home.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:.beckworth Date: 22 Feb 2001 15:03:15 -0500 greg would appreciate the picture---its for a young lad doing a report on him and he is working hard to make it look good and give all the correct information---please scan and send to me or to him at WestPeppermint@aol.com off line of course he is included on the CC line and again thanks for the help "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:.beckworth Date: 22 Feb 2001 14:52:11 -0500 thanks pard will send it out to the young lad that sent me a note requesting it---he is doing a school paper on him--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: MtMan-List:.beckworth Date: 22 Feb 2001 13:07:52 -0800 I accidently deleted the e-mail address of the young lad doing the Beckworth report. The AMM Western was held near Beckworth country in the Sierras, in Calif.. I have some pics of Beckworth Peak, memorial plaques, his trading post, etc.... I could send them if interested, but would need the e-mail address again. Jim Hardee took those of us who were interested on an educational tour of the area. It was great, thanks again Jim. hardtack Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnel fat? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: new e-club Date: 22 Feb 2001 15:37:07 -0600 I have just created a new on-line discussion club for muzzle loaders and rendezvous enthusiasts who live in the Ozarks region of Arkansas and Missouri. Anyone is welcome to visit the site and those who live in the Ozarks are welcomed and encouraged to join. Check it out at: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders Frank Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: palmer@netdor.com (Palmer Schatell) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rifle and revolver caliber Jim Bridger's Date: 22 Feb 2001 15:11:27 -0500 At 12:45 AM 22/02/01 -0500, you wrote: > Somewhere in all this dialogue there should be something about what kind >of charge would stop a what without using excess powder and bruising your >body. >Most sincerely >Richard James >Sir: I had a friend who spent time in Alaska hunting Kodiak bears with a .58 rifled musket. He swears he used two (2) Minnie balls nose to nose in front of 100 grains of ffg. He also allowed this load killed from one end and crippled from the other. I can't imagine going after any bear with any single shot other than an M-79 40mm grenade launcher. Palmer (3-coupes) Schatell >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Tim Jewell's tarp Date: 22 Feb 2001 16:55:49 EST Yepper. Different strokes for different folks. I simply got tired of messing with the round balls a rope. They always seemed to come undone when being transported which meant find the round ball or a new one and retying etc. Loops stay put, just stake it down. I have two diamonds now. Got a small 10' x 10' for packing on my back, etc., when we go off trekking and such or if I decide to just do a one nighter at a vous and can't drive in. This one I had the loop in the center added to tie off to a tree etc. My larger diamond is 12' x 12' and has no such loop. I haven't felt the need. With this one I take a different approach. While up at Stickwalker's place a couple years ago he allowed me to cut a couple saplings down. The two I selected were real straight. I put them side by side and tightly wrapped them from one end to the other with thin rope. Then cut another just the right length and took my hawk to it and put a point on one end and chopped at the other end to form a flat point. (Trying to put this into words isn't easy) In other words this second end is sort of a tapered wedge so to speak. I take the two straight, wrapped limbs and place against the ceiling on the inside pointing from the front to the back, then force the wedged end of the single pole into the center of the other two at the center, lift up and put the pointed end into the ground. this lifts the roof up and bows it from front to back. You have to deal with a pole in the center of the shelter, but in a 12' x 12' shelter this doesn't seem to be a real problem. Works great for me. So much so that last year I sold my tipi as I found myself not using it anymore. I love the diamond set up and just plan on using it. If you want to get real complicated with it, I've got a design in mind that would allow me to enclose this shelter with two wedge shaped pieces of canvas attached with lace pins ( like those used on a tipi). Longshot "Longshot's Rendezvous Homepage" (Newly Redesigned) http://members.aol.com/lodgepole/longshot.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tim Jewell's tarp Date: 22 Feb 2001 17:02:53 EST In a message dated 2/20/01, ThisOldFart@aol.com writes: << I think you went to that method cause you spend so much time unloading everything else that you don't have time to set up your tent.>> Not anymore Fox, I got things wittled down to next to nothing now. I can load my camp and gear and still have room fer that little toy truck of yers in the back now. << Why don't you tell them about your "trek" last fall in the Shawnee, where you foundered under the weight. >> Covered that in my last post.....I got me a shinny new 10' x 10' fer X-Mas from the Missus. Longshot "Longshot's Rendezvous Homepage" (Newly Redesigned) http://members.aol.com/lodgepole/longshot.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan- now Grizz loads Date: 22 Feb 2001 17:41:27 EST In a message dated 2/22/01 1:42:12 PM, palmer@netdor.com writes: << I had a friend who spent time in Alaska hunting Kodiak bears with a .58 rifled musket. He swears he used two (2) Minnie balls nose to nose in front of 100 grains of ffg. >> Whoa.....sounds like a pretty serious load for very close work! I shot a 9ft+ brown bear in Alaska about 25 years ago using a 338 mag. (not a M/L) The bear charged after being hit through the chest (and lungs) at about 100yards.. it took two more well placed shots (the last at 10yds) to stop the bear. I would have gladly used a bazooka for the last shot! An examination of the damage revealed all 3 shots would have been fatal,(chest/lung hits, 2nd shot broke near shoulder) but the bear didn't seem to know it/or care. I believe the problem was the bear knew exactly where I was when I shot, and was running on pure adrenaline.... me too for that matter.... ...I blew the stalk. In my humble opinion, it's almost as important that the critter not know it's being hunted (stressed!), as a well placed shot. I have used the heaviest load I can get (read fastest round ball) till the accuracy starts falling off (about 105grs fffg with my 50cal, any more powder and I blow patches) and have killed moose, caribou, and black bear. I'm sure a lighter load works fine on big animals, but this works for me. Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: new e-club Date: 22 Feb 2001 19:42:21 EST In a message dated 2/22/1 02:41:19 PM, frankf@centurytel.net writes: << http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders>> Frank I tried to get into this site but I got bounced off every option they gave me. Can you hand-fit my e-mail address into the site? RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rifle and revolver caliber Jim Bridger's charger Date: 22 Feb 2001 19:45:39 EST In a message dated 2/22/1 02:42:12 PM, palmer@netdor.com writes: <> Yankee inventivness and ingenuity . . . .Sound like the guy who discovered electricity but was killed by the charge. Can't remember his name. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: trade beads Date: 22 Feb 2001 22:43:22 EST Can anyone recommend some good trade bead books that would cover what was available during the RMFT and earlier? Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: [Fwd: cannon shoot] Date: 22 Feb 2001 19:48:53 -0800 Now here's an interesting thing to do if'n you're around Colorado in July...... ********************************Dear Fellow Shooters,The WHAC Shooting Club will be holding the first annual Black Powder Cannon and Rifle Shoot July 21, 2001 at our 100 acre range near Denver Intl' Airport. Targets for cannon will be cars and other fun stuff at up to 1500 yards. The rifle range will have targets up to 300 yards. Shooters are welcome to stay overnight and shoot July 22 also at no additional charge. This is a FUN SHOOT with friendly $5 shoots/winner take all competitions thru-out the day. Camping is available but with no services. Porta cans will be on site. Spectators are welcome at $10 carload. We will feature our "Mad Scientist" firing theri pumpkin gun, a air cannon with a 40 FT barrel which has fired an intact pumpkin 1000 yards. Entries will be acepted by phone.WHAC members entry $15 (no other discounts), Non-memebrs entry $35 with $10 discount for NRA and CSSA members.Contact Mark Mason 303-377-0034 or whacemason@usa.net ******************************** Regards from Idaho Lee Newbill ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping Date: 22 Feb 2001 21:10:10 -0700 I heard the same thing. I also heard that Navajo medicine men practicing black magic are referred to as coyote men anyway just some thoughts; tom ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 1:31 AM Trapping > > In a message dated 2/20/1 11:09:08 PM, JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net writes: > > <<"The Coyote, Super Survivor - Anglo explorers first called him the > "prairie wolf", the one who watched over the Great Plains. The Navajos > referred to him as "God's dog". >> > > Don't know where the author got his stuff but Navajos call them "skin > walkers". They can be evil or mischevious humans transformed into animals to > further their own cause and Navajos won't have anything to do with them > including touching their hides or any other part. As for me, I had one for a > pet and my feeling is you couldn't ask for a more lovable little friend than > a coyote or a wolf (had a total of 42 of them). > RJames > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping Date: 22 Feb 2001 23:17:44 EST --part1_3d.7d34e1f.27c73e68_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spent time on the Navajo. It a wolf that they become and the coyote is the devil --part1_3d.7d34e1f.27c73e68_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spent time on the Navajo. It a wolf that they become and the coyote is the
devil --part1_3d.7d34e1f.27c73e68_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade beads Date: 22 Feb 2001 21:35:09 -0700 > Can anyone recommend some good trade bead books that would cover what was > available during the RMFT and earlier? > > Ymos, > Magpie You might make a visit to Fort Union Trading Post or stop by the museum at the airport in Billings to see some of the beads present on the upper Missouri after Ft. Unions development in 1827-1828. The beads that I showed you were from that period of the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade. Walt ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Interesting! Date: 22 Feb 2001 22:00:41 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C09D1A.E583BB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: MtMan-List: Interesting!Ole, I got the book French Fur Traders & Voyageurs in the American West by = LeRoy R. Hafen based upon ideas being exchanged on this list and the = requests for specifics regarding documentation. =20 There are several references to Stewart and the very trip you are = talking about is included in this book. =20 On page 10. "The father of Baptiste Charbonneau was Metis and his = mother, the famous Sacajawea, was a Shoshone Indian. This is an = excellent reference to the Metis being actively involved in the Rocky = Mountain Fur Trade. From the very beginning of the Americans in the = Rockies. And does challenge Allen's theory....that the Metis did not = make a significent impact on the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade. As posted = earlier on this history list. In the book it mentions that Stewart was along on 5 of the 15 = rendezvous. The one where he took Miller is the one you are talking = about having an interest in this time. Walt Park City, MT=20 Stewart was a guest and tagged along with the caravan which was = taking trade goods to the 1837 Rendezvous. The wagons,carts and pack = annimals were not all for his supplies. I think that most were for = Alcohol,Gun powder and goodies to trade for furs. The Fur Co. had high hopes of filling those wagons and carts for the = trip back to St.Louis. Now then add the Hudson Bay Co. and the supplies = they braught to the area and the competition for the available furs and = you have a lot of trade items available. Now the comment about having a persona are right on target, but I got = what I wanted from this thread which was to get back to a more = meaningful discussion concerning the Fur Trade!. YMOS Ole # 718 ---------- ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C09D1A.E583BB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: MtMan-List: Interesting!
Ole,

I got the book French Fur Traders & = Voyageurs=20 in the American West by LeRoy R. Hafen based upon ideas being exchanged = on this=20 list and the requests for specifics regarding documentation. =

There are several references to Stewart = and the=20 very trip you are talking about is included in this book. =20

On page 10.  "The father of = Baptiste=20 Charbonneau was Metis and his mother, the famous Sacajawea, was a = Shoshone=20 Indian. This is an excellent reference to the Metis being actively = involved in the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade. From the very beginning = of the=20 Americans in the Rockies. And does challenge Allen's = theory....that the=20 Metis did not make a significent impact on the Rocky Mountain Fur = Trade. As=20 posted earlier on this history list.

In the book it mentions that Stewart = was along on 5=20 of the 15 rendezvous. The one where he took Miller is the one you = are=20 talking about having an interest in this time.

Walt

Park City, MT

Stewart was a guest and tagged along with the caravan which = was=20 taking trade goods to the 1837 Rendezvous. The wagons,carts and pack = annimals=20 were not all for his supplies. I think that most were for Alcohol,Gun = powder=20 and goodies to trade for furs.
The Fur Co. had high hopes of = filling those=20 wagons and carts for the trip back to St.Louis. Now then add the = Hudson Bay=20 Co. and the supplies they braught to the area and the competition for = the=20 available furs and you have a lot of trade items available.
Now the = comment=20 about having a persona are right on target, but I got what I wanted = from this=20 thread which was to get back to a more meaningful discussion = concerning the=20 Fur Trade!.
YMOS
Ole # 718

----------

------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C09D1A.E583BB20-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: [Fwd: cannon shoot] Date: 23 Feb 2001 01:32:42 EST In a message dated 2/22/1 08:49:38 PM, bluethistle@potlatch.com writes: <> I f you get excited about this sort of thing in Cololrado in July, come over to the Fort Bridger Rendezvous on Labor Day weekend. They use the old Fort artillery range. They are shooting at targets 1400 yards away but some of those misses go way over a mile - especially an overshot by the billiard ball mortars. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping Date: 23 Feb 2001 01:37:37 EST In a message dated 2/22/1 09:18:44 PM, TrapRJoe@aol.com writes: <> I didn't spend any time ON any Navajos, but they called it the way I told it - - - "skin walkers" can transform into coyotes for either mischief or evil. 'yotees are also called "tricksters" - not in a joking way, but when inhabited by a spirit they are not to be trusted. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping Date: 23 Feb 2001 02:11:02 EST In a message dated 2/23/01 6:38:26 AM !First Boot!!!, SWzypher@aol.com writes: > didn't spend any time ON any Navajos, but they called it the way I told it > - - - "skin walkers" can transform into coyotes for either mischief or evil. > > 'yotees are also called "tricksters" - not in a joking way, but when > inhabited by a spirit they are not to be trusted. > > RJames Richard your starting to hurt my feelins! (G) Granted I've pulled a few "tricks" in my time. But I ain't all that bad, just ask Jill on a good day. On second thought?----- maybe you had better ask someone else? Crazy Cyot ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kayla M. Michael" Subject: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians Date: 23 Feb 2001 04:53:52 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C09D54.9E6F93A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, I am a new member to this email chat room but I have been = lurking here and reading the archieves for years. Greetings All. I live here in NW Wyoming and = love the wilds and the old ways. I have some questions ... I have been very interested and am studing the Sheepeater Indians that = used to live in this NW Wyoming area and also in the high mountains of central Idaho. They = were the only indians to live year round in the Yellowstone Park region. Osbourne = Russell in his book has a description of them when he went thru the Lamar Valley (The = Secluded Valley). I am interested in any information that you could send me on them. I do = know that they were a subgroup of the Shoshone-Bannock, never acquired the horse, and = in the 1870's=20 were forced onto the reservations with the Shoshone-Bannocks in Wyoming = and Idaho. Does anyone know where I might find in depth information on them and = their ways, beliefs, and living habits? Also I understand that they made excellent bows out of the horns of the = Bighorn Sheep. I understand that these were highly prized artifacts and of excellent = quality. The Sheepeater diet consisted of much meat from the Bighorn Sheep hence the name = Sheepeaters.=20 These horns were soften by heat and also sometimes from the geysers and = hot springs in Yellowstone Park and molded into shape. I am considering in trying to = make a bow like they used to make. Does anyone have information on this, on their old = bows, and their bow making techniques? Again, I understand that these bows were highly = prized artifacts. Thankyou so very much. Love this discussion Chat Email Service.=20 May The Creator Bless! Lone = Eagle Woman ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C09D54.9E6F93A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello All, I am a new member to this = email chat=20 room but I have been lurking here and reading

the archieves for years. Greetings All. = I live here=20 in NW Wyoming and love the wilds and the

old ways. I have some questions = ...

I have been very interested and am = studing the=20 Sheepeater Indians that used to live in this

NW Wyoming area and also in the high = mountains of=20 central Idaho. They were the only

indians to live year round in the = Yellowstone Park=20 region. Osbourne Russell in his book

has a description of them when he went = thru the=20 Lamar Valley (The Secluded Valley).

I am interested in any information that = you could=20 send me on them. I do know that they

were a subgroup of the = Shoshone-Bannock, never=20 acquired the horse, and in the 1870's

were forced onto the reservations with = the=20 Shoshone-Bannocks in Wyoming and Idaho.

Does anyone know where I might find in = depth=20 information on them and their ways, beliefs,

and living habits?

Also I understand that they made = excellent bows out=20 of the horns of the Bighorn Sheep.

I understand that these were highly = prized=20 artifacts and of excellent quality. The Sheepeater

diet consisted of much meat from the = Bighorn Sheep=20 hence the name Sheepeaters.

These horns were soften by heat and=20 also sometimes from the geysers and hot springs in

Yellowstone  Park and molded = into shape.=20 I am considering in trying to make a bow like

they used to make. Does anyone have = information on=20 this, on their old bows, and their

bow making techniques? Again, I = understand that=20 these bows were highly prized artifacts.

Thankyou so very much. Love this = discussion Chat=20 Email Service.

May The Creator Bless!

          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;  =20 Lone Eagle Woman

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C09D54.9E6F93A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: now Grizz load Date: 23 Feb 2001 07:45:12 -0600 Magpie wrote about the damage done to the quarry by the shot and the effect of stress on the animals reaction to being shot. As I mentioned earlier, I hunt white-tail deer with a calibre most people would consider far inadequate. I usually shoot from cover a fair distance away from the animal and place the shot where I would want to hit with an arrow. Often, the target animal hardly reacts and the other deer around him just kind of look around to try to see where the "pop" came from. I sit tight, stay under cover, watch my deer, and have a smoke. In a couple of minutes, he will wander a short distance from the rest and lay down in the grass, and expire. The longest I have ever had to trail a deer is about 500 feet and it is usually "one deer tag, one deer, one bullet" and the worst damage I've had to the meat was a few bone fragments when my .222 hit a rib. Now, in all fairness, there is an issue of "stopping power" if the target is dangerous. If it is a mountain lion in the back yard (and there are some in my area), it wont be the .222 I step out with; it will be the 45-70 with "bear loads" cause the 45-70 would stop a Mack truck with one shot! I believe in using only enough (of anything) to get the job done. The quieter and the less to-do, the better. (Must be the Indian background?) A big cloud of smoke, a tremendous "kaboom", and a gun that kicks the shooter almost off his feet might look impressive but if hunting is your "bread and butter", the big show doesn't accomplish anything. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load Date: 23 Feb 2001 08:56:30 EST In a message dated 2/23/2001 8:47:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes: << I usually shoot from cover a fair distance away from the animal and place the shot where I would want to hit with an arrow. >> As you say, Placement is far more important than caliber. There are numerous accounts of neophytes in the mtns trying to kill buffalo and shooting them far too high in the rib cage for the heart & lungs. WDM (Karamojo) Bell killed around a thousand elephants with a 7X57 mauser by knowing their anatomy & carefully placing his shots. Greg Sefton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping Date: 23 Feb 2001 09:21:33 EST --part1_1e.11b4d622.27c7cbed_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Was told the coyote is thief. You will be walking and he will steal your clothes. I was told he could disappear. In the beginning all the stars were on a blanket and the animals were each placing their star in the heavens and the coyote came along and flipped the blanket. In the beginning he had beautiful fur, but gambled it away to the beaver, beautiful eyes and gambled it away to the bird. The coyote bring the rain (No coyote, no rain). Upon hearing this I said then he is a God, and was told, no he is the devil. If a coyote crosses the road in front of you and he is going east, you will have good luck; but if he is going north, get off the road so no one else will be hurt. --part1_1e.11b4d622.27c7cbed_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Was told the coyote is thief. You will be walking and he will steal your
clothes. I was told he could disappear. In the beginning all the stars were
on a blanket and the animals were each placing their star in the heavens and
the coyote came along and flipped the blanket. In the beginning he had
beautiful fur, but gambled it away to the beaver, beautiful eyes and gambled
it away to the bird. The coyote bring the rain (No coyote, no rain). Upon
hearing this I said then he is a God, and was told, no he is the devil. If a
coyote crosses the road in front of you and he is going east, you will have
good luck; but if he is going north, get off the road so no one else will be
hurt. --part1_1e.11b4d622.27c7cbed_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade beads Date: 23 Feb 2001 11:23:03 EST The History Of Beads by Lois Sherr Dubin. Abradale Press, New York. (www.abramsbooks.com) Covers beads from 30,000BC to the present. Heavily illustrated with a very useful pictorial 'time-line' of beads. If you have the bucks, get the full book, not the concise edition. Both are available at Amazon, Bibliofind, Abramsbooks, etc. Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load Date: 23 Feb 2001 13:32:20 EST Dianne we're talking apple and oranges here. A .222 is a hi power smokeless powder gun that is moving so fast that the built explodes on contact. Probably with a scope on it too for better placement of your shot. By law the smallest caliber that can be used to hunt deer here in Idaho with Black Powder is .45 caliber. Elk is a .50 cal. Actually a mountain Lion does not take much to stop. It is the only big game animal in the state that can be legally hunted with a rim fire gun. (.22 cal.) Without the big cloud of smoke, a tremendous "kaboom", You ain't hunt with Black Powder and If ya ain't hunting with Black Powder ya ain't showin me nothin. For that takes a might more skill then huntin with a Hi power suppository rifle with a scope on it. Just one Black Powder hunter's opinion Crazy Cyot ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping Date: 23 Feb 2001 15:33:25 EST In a message dated 2/23/1 12:11:38 AM, GazeingCyot@cs.com writes: <> What can I say?? Navajos had their own feelings about 'yotees before "us guys" ever got here, and -- I don't know who hung the handle on you but everyone knows(in the eyes of Indians) that one we would call "crazy" is touched by the great spirit and carries BIG medicine. I know one Indian from up your way - you probably know Clyde Hall - for whom the Owl is big medicine and his totem. His friend, Lane Tom, shys away from owl like they had the plague (like Navajos & coyotes). Nice thing is we can observe but have no obligation to try and figure it out. We're getting snow here big time. Are you going to the Pocatello gun show? I want to run up saturday morning if Malad Pass will allow such things. Mebbee so see you there?? Dick James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians Date: 23 Feb 2001 15:47:08 EST In a message dated 2/23/1 04:46:47 AM, kaylam@onewest.net writes: <> Try The Limhi: Sacajawea's People by Brigham D Madsen, The CAXTON PRINTERS, Ltd., Caldwell, Idaho 83605 ISBN 0-87004-267-X. Brig is getting pretty infirm but has written eight books all related to Shoshone people, is professor emeritus for three different universities where he taught in and directed their history departments. I talked with him in his home 30 miles from here but I bought my copy of this particular book from the Museum in Boise Idaho. You live where in Wyoming?? Anywhere around Cody? Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load Date: 23 Feb 2001 15:49:44 EST In a message dated 2/23/1 06:47:15 AM, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes: << 45-70 with "bear loads" cause the 45-70 would stop a Mack truck with one shot!>> Just got one of those and havn't yet tried it. What have you hit with one and what damage did it do? RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping Date: 23 Feb 2001 16:00:01 EST In a message dated 2/23/1 07:23:17 AM, TrapRJoe@aol.com writes: <> Now we are talking Lakota, not Navajo, but Chief (Edgar) Red Cloud - when he was alive over 30 years ago - told me a Lakota tale about a coyote. Back when coyotes were entrusted with a sacred bundle - the were required to pass it around from pack to pack to share responsibility of it care. A young, most mischievious of the bunch, was chosesn to carry the bundle from his pack to the next and despite instructions contrary he couldn't pass up the opportunity to "sneak a peek". Well the contents was mica and as he opened the bundle, a gust came up and sucked all the contents from the bag and scattered it. This is why today you will find mica all over the Black Hills (this is true !) and why all coyotes howl at the moon as an expression of their remorse and embarassment caused them by their relative. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charlie Webb Subject: Re: MtMan-List: [Fwd: cannon shoot] Date: 23 Feb 2001 14:03:15 -0700 > > < Club will be holding the first annual Black Powder Cannon and Rifle > Shoot July 21, 2001 at our 100 acre range near Denver Intl' > > I f you get excited about this sort of thing in Cololrado in July, I might add that the largest muzzle loading shoot in Colorado is the Colorado Springs Muzzle Loaders Annual Black Powder Shoot and Rendezvous held over Memorial Day at Florence Mountain Park. This will be the 27th year we have put on this event. We do a cannon matches, smooth and rifled bores, as well as paper and primitive ranges. Mountain Man and Mountain Mama runs and many kids events. For real hivernants we have a Super Senior Class for shooters who have celebrated their 70th birthday. Hawk and Knife, Hunters Walk, Shotgun Matches along with a screened Traders Row. Men and Ladies flint and percussion, pistol, and revolver matches. Team events for clubs and couples plus Old Timers matches. Our Memorial Day Shoot averages 350 plus registered Junior Men and Women shooters. We have a primitive camping area as well as a Tin Tipi camp. (no hook ups) This is not an event for totally primitive mind sets, we welcome everyone, in buckskins or tee shirts especially the kids, they are the future of muzzle loading. For three days of great shooting and fun, come play with us! Respectfully Old Coyote ( apparently unloved by the Navajo) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ikon@mindspring.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians Date: 23 Feb 2001 18:38:12 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C09DC7.C6EF5400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lone Eagle Woman, There was an excellant article in one of the Wild West mags about 6 = years ago on the Sheepeater Indians. I have since given that issue to a = gent who goes by Sheepeater. I will post on the board and If I can contact him, put you in touch with = him. He just happens to be a descendant from the Sheepeater Indians. From what I remember, the tribe was made up of indians from various = tribes. There bows were of sheep horn. A good book for this bow is = Reginald Laubin's Indian Archery. A must for any bowyer. Talk to you soon, Frank V. Rago ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kayla M. Michael=20 To: hist_text@xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:53 AM Subject: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians Hello All, I am a new member to this email chat room but I have been = lurking here and reading the archieves for years. Greetings All. I live here in NW Wyoming and = love the wilds and the old ways. I have some questions ... I have been very interested and am studing the Sheepeater Indians that = used to live in this NW Wyoming area and also in the high mountains of central Idaho. They = were the only indians to live year round in the Yellowstone Park region. Osbourne = Russell in his book has a description of them when he went thru the Lamar Valley (The = Secluded Valley). I am interested in any information that you could send me on them. I = do know that they were a subgroup of the Shoshone-Bannock, never acquired the horse, and = in the 1870's=20 were forced onto the reservations with the Shoshone-Bannocks in = Wyoming and Idaho. Does anyone know where I might find in depth information on them and = their ways, beliefs, and living habits? Also I understand that they made excellent bows out of the horns of = the Bighorn Sheep. I understand that these were highly prized artifacts and of excellent = quality. The Sheepeater diet consisted of much meat from the Bighorn Sheep hence the name = Sheepeaters.=20 These horns were soften by heat and also sometimes from the geysers = and hot springs in Yellowstone Park and molded into shape. I am considering in trying to = make a bow like they used to make. Does anyone have information on this, on their old = bows, and their bow making techniques? Again, I understand that these bows were highly = prized artifacts. Thankyou so very much. Love this discussion Chat Email Service.=20 May The Creator Bless! Lone = Eagle Woman ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C09DC7.C6EF5400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lone Eagle Woman,

There was an excellant article in one = of the Wild=20 West mags about 6 years ago on the Sheepeater Indians. I have = since given=20 that issue to a gent who goes by Sheepeater.

I will post on the board and If I can = contact him,=20 put you in touch with him. He just happens to be a descendant = from the Sheepeater Indians.

From what I remember, the tribe was = made up=20 of indians from various tribes. There bows were of sheep = horn. =20 A good book for this bow is Reginald Laubin's Indian Archery. A = must for=20 any bowyer.

Talk to you soon,

Frank V. Rago

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kayla = M.=20 Michael