From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee pot or pan Date: 01 Mar 2001 22:11:18 EST --part1_14.10616727.27d06956_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for the proper style and material for a coffee pot that would have been used during the RMFT at a large brigade camp and where is the bet place to get one. Thanks "Roadkill" --part1_14.10616727.27d06956_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for the proper style and material for a coffee pot that would
have been used during the RMFT at a large brigade camp and where is the bet
place to get one.
Thanks "Roadkill" --part1_14.10616727.27d06956_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee pot or pan Date: 01 Mar 2001 21:41:24 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01C0A298.5D01C660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roadkill, You can get by with what ever pot you have. Most of the pots used during = that time were either straight sided or slightly flared. A big coffee = can or smaller one is easily converted by putting a couple anchor points = on opposite sides and bending some heavy wire between them. A fella = could make a nice nesting set using different sizes of tin cans up to = the largest coffee can made. Cut a couple fittings for the sides in the = shape of an upside down "T". Drill a hole in the leg of the "T" and a = couple smaller ones in each "arm". Rivet the "T" upside down to the = sides on both sides of the pot and spread the legs out a bit. Bend some = grape wire for a handle and there you have it. You can also covert a = copper "canister" (originally used for holding dry ingredients like = sugar, coffee, etc. into a nice boiler complete with lid for next to = nothing. It will probably be stainless steel on the inside but it will = get you started. My group makes coffee and tea in whatever pot we have available. Ranging = from small to fairly large straight sided boilers. Most of them are made = of copper but sheet iron/tin works fine. My largest pot (one that I made = of copper sheet) holds a bit less than a gallon, is used to boil = drinking water and to make enough coffee for a half dozen guys. I use = smaller copper pots (that I make) when there is just a couple/three of = us.=20 You don't need a fancy tapered pot with a spout though they were = available back east and may have seen their way west. I am sure most = coffee and tea was brewed up in a simple pot, whatever was handy. It's = nice to have a lid but not necessary. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MarkLoader@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 7:11 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee pot or pan I am looking for the proper style and material for a coffee pot that = would=20 have been used during the RMFT at a large brigade camp and where is = the bet=20 place to get one.=20 Thanks "Roadkill"=20 ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01C0A298.5D01C660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Roadkill,
 
You can get by with what ever pot you have. Most of = the pots=20 used during that time were either straight sided or slightly flared. A = big=20 coffee can or smaller one is easily converted by putting a couple anchor = points=20 on opposite sides and bending some heavy wire between them. A fella = could make a=20 nice nesting set using different sizes of tin cans up to the largest = coffee can=20 made. Cut a couple fittings for the sides in the shape of an upside down = "T".=20 Drill a hole in the leg of the "T" and a couple smaller ones in each = "arm".=20 Rivet the "T" upside down to the sides on both sides of the pot and = spread the=20 legs out a bit. Bend some grape wire for a handle and there you have it. = You can=20 also covert a copper "canister" (originally used for holding dry = ingredients=20 like sugar, coffee, etc. into a nice boiler complete with lid for next = to=20 nothing. It will probably be stainless steel on the inside but it will = get you=20 started.
 
My group makes coffee and tea in whatever pot we = have=20 available. Ranging from small to fairly large straight sided boilers. = Most of=20 them are made of copper but sheet iron/tin works fine. My largest pot = (one that=20 I made of copper sheet) holds a bit less than a gallon, is used to boil = drinking=20 water and to make enough coffee for a half dozen guys. I use smaller = copper=20 pots (that I make)  when there is just a couple/three of us.=20
 
You don't need a fancy tapered pot with a spout = though they=20 were available back east and may have seen their way west. I am sure = most coffee=20 and tea was brewed up in a simple pot, whatever was handy. It's nice to = have a=20 lid but not necessary.
 
Capt. Lahti'
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 MarkLoader@aol.com
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 = 7:11=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee = pot or=20 pan

I am = looking for the=20 proper style and material for a coffee pot that would
have been = used=20 during the RMFT at a large brigade camp and where is the bet
place = to get=20 one.
Thanks "Roadkill" ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01C0A298.5D01C660-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee pot or pan Date: 01 Mar 2001 22:57:23 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0A2A2.FA668BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I made a set of those copper canister kettles they work great cost me = all of 5.00 [picked up the canisters at the local second hand store] = money well spent. the middle size is just about the right to fit in a saddle bag ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roger Lahti=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 10:41 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee pot or pan Roadkill, =20 You can get by with what ever pot you have. Most of the pots used = during that time were either straight sided or slightly flared. A big = coffee can or smaller one is easily converted by putting a couple anchor = points on opposite sides and bending some heavy wire between them. A = fella could make a nice nesting set using different sizes of tin cans up = to the largest coffee can made. Cut a couple fittings for the sides in = the shape of an upside down "T". Drill a hole in the leg of the "T" and = a couple smaller ones in each "arm". Rivet the "T" upside down to the = sides on both sides of the pot and spread the legs out a bit. Bend some = grape wire for a handle and there you have it. You can also covert a = copper "canister" (originally used for holding dry ingredients like = sugar, coffee, etc. into a nice boiler complete with lid for next to = nothing. It will probably be stainless steel on the inside but it will = get you started. =20 My group makes coffee and tea in whatever pot we have available. = Ranging from small to fairly large straight sided boilers. Most of them = are made of copper but sheet iron/tin works fine. My largest pot (one = that I made of copper sheet) holds a bit less than a gallon, is used to = boil drinking water and to make enough coffee for a half dozen guys. I = use smaller copper pots (that I make) when there is just a couple/three = of us.=20 =20 You don't need a fancy tapered pot with a spout though they were = available back east and may have seen their way west. I am sure most = coffee and tea was brewed up in a simple pot, whatever was handy. It's = nice to have a lid but not necessary. =20 Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MarkLoader@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 7:11 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee pot or pan I am looking for the proper style and material for a coffee pot that = would=20 have been used during the RMFT at a large brigade camp and where is = the bet=20 place to get one.=20 Thanks "Roadkill"=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0A2A2.FA668BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I made a set of those copper canister = kettles they=20 work great cost me all of 5.00 [picked up the canisters at the local = second hand=20 store] money well spent.
the middle size is just about the = right  to=20 fit in a saddle bag
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Roger=20 Lahti
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 = 10:41=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee = pot or=20 pan

Roadkill,
 
You can get by with what ever pot you have. Most = of the pots=20 used during that time were either straight sided or slightly flared. A = big=20 coffee can or smaller one is easily converted by putting a couple = anchor=20 points on opposite sides and bending some heavy wire between them. A = fella=20 could make a nice nesting set using different sizes of tin cans up to = the=20 largest coffee can made. Cut a couple fittings for the sides in the = shape of=20 an upside down "T". Drill a hole in the leg of the "T" and a couple = smaller=20 ones in each "arm". Rivet the "T" upside down to the sides on both = sides of=20 the pot and spread the legs out a bit. Bend some grape wire for a = handle and=20 there you have it. You can also covert a copper "canister" (originally = used=20 for holding dry ingredients like sugar, coffee, etc. into a nice = boiler=20 complete with lid for next to nothing. It will probably be stainless = steel on=20 the inside but it will get you started.
 
My group makes coffee and tea in whatever pot we = have=20 available. Ranging from small to fairly large straight sided boilers. = Most of=20 them are made of copper but sheet iron/tin works fine. My largest pot = (one=20 that I made of copper sheet) holds a bit less than a gallon, is used = to boil=20 drinking water and to make enough coffee for a half dozen guys. I use = smaller=20 copper pots (that I make)  when there is just a couple/three = of us.=20
 
You don't need a fancy tapered pot with a spout = though they=20 were available back east and may have seen their way west. I am sure = most=20 coffee and tea was brewed up in a simple pot, whatever was handy. It's = nice to=20 have a lid but not necessary.
 
Capt. Lahti'
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 MarkLoader@aol.com
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Thursday, March 01, = 2001 7:11=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Coffee pot or=20 pan

I am = looking for the=20 proper style and material for a coffee pot that would
have been = used=20 during the RMFT at a large brigade camp and where is the bet =
place to=20 get one.
Thanks "Roadkill"=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0A2A2.FA668BC0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "House Todorovich" Subject: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 02 Mar 2001 00:36:23 -0600 Hi Yall, (if ya don't speak southern then: Hello all,) Is this an acceptable manner of posting to this list, if not please correct me. Also can someone inform me about the rendevzous in Alabama, as I live here in Northern Alabama, and hope to be able to attend. Some short background: Born in 1959 in West Virginia near Beckley, moved south with parents in 1970. Graduate University Alabama in Huntsville 1982, Masters program and continuing ed. since then. Married, three kids 2 boys and 1 girl. Enjoy hunting, history, and technology. Constitutionalist, Christian, and Capitalist. I have never bought a ready built black powder gun, except some starting kit parts from Turner Kirkland's Dixie Gun Works. I am currently working on knapping arrowheads and designing myself a flintlock long rifle. Probably in .50 calabre. I built my first black powder gun in 1973, 1974 from parts that my mom found. A .45 cal. long rifle in percussion. (I was age 13 -14) While it was and is rough it shoots, and has taken game for me. Since then I have built several other guns, and self bows. We also trapped local muscrat for spending money in high school. I still consider myself a tenderfoot in many aspects, but am ardent about these topics. Perhaps I will have things to share from time to time, and am looking forward to reading the posts. While I have not been able to seek out the American Mountian Man membership that I some day hope to be worthy of, I have followed the writhings of members when I could locate them. The computer and internet has been a boon for this. Thanks for being here in cyber space. Highest regards, Jim Todorovich aka DricPa "You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive" ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee pot or pan Date: 02 Mar 2001 09:30:47 EST --part1_41.8200b84.27d10897_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > covert a copper "canister" (originally used for holding dry ingredients like > sugar, coffee, etc. into a nice boiler > In formal setting such as coffee houses or at dinners at home coffee was served in a "coffee pot" most of which were rather small to make sure you used it up before it got cold. Remember they did not have central heating and they did not have thermos type containers. Coffee was brewed in a pot large enough to serve the amount that was needed and keep warm by the hearth or over the fire. For those new to the use of copper or brass in food pre remember to keep it well scrubbed or you will get the lovely green verdigrie (sp) on the surface and that is poison which can ruin a rather good day. All our copper that we use for cooking is tinned (on the inside) with lead free solder to protect against that problem. Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes --part1_41.8200b84.27d10897_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


covert a copper "canister" (originally used for holding dry ingredients like
sugar, coffee, etc. into a nice boiler
I am sure most coffee and tea was brewed up in a simple pot


In formal setting such as coffee houses or at dinners at home coffee was
served in a "coffee pot" most of which were rather small to make sure you
used it up before it got cold.  Remember they did not have central heating
and they did not have thermos type containers.   Coffee was brewed in a pot
large enough to serve the amount that was needed and keep warm by the hearth
or over the fire.

For those new to the use of copper or brass in food pre remember to keep it
well scrubbed or you will get the lovely green verdigrie (sp) on the surface
and that is poison which can ruin a rather good day.  All our copper that we
use for cooking is tinned (on the inside) with lead free solder to protect
against that problem.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes
--part1_41.8200b84.27d10897_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: history, but not RMFT Date: 02 Mar 2001 09:08:51 -0600 Ho the list On this date 165 years ago one of my cousins, Thomas Jefferson Rusk along with 58 other men, signed his name to the Texas Declaration of Independence from Mexico, forming the Republic of Texas. Rusk went on to participate in many famous battles against the Mexicans and later lived a storied life in early Texas. Men like my cousin (and like his grandfather, Benjamin Starritt.... my gggg-grandfather.....who fought in the American Revolution) were willing to risk everything they had, including their very lives, to live in freedom and to pass that legacy of freedom down to us. We can't let them down. We must preserve that freedom and pass it on, intact, to those who come after us. To read more about these men go to Google.com and enter a search for their names. And while you're there search for your own family, using names from every branch of your family tree. You might be surprised at what you find.....like another, lesser cousin of mine who got propelled to his final reward from the Texas electric chair. Every family tree has twigs as well as mighty branches. YMOS Lanney Ratcliff PS: T.J. Rusk is also Larry Pendleton's distant cousin, which makes Pendleton and me cousins. Ouch. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee pot or pan Date: 02 Mar 2001 10:20:22 EST In a message dated 3/2/2001 9:32:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, CTOAKES@aol.com writes: << All our copper that we use for cooking is tinned (on the inside) with lead free solder to protect against that problem. >> Copper is bad for you (as you mentioned). drinking water stds call for <1ppm and now they're sayin tin is bad for you as well. TBTO (and other tin compounds) has now been banned as a paint additive for marine use (water pollution). Iron is about the only thing I haven't heard any health negatives about. Greg Sefton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 02 Mar 2001 10:23:02 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 10:36 PM > Hi Yall, (if ya don't speak southern then: Hello all,) > > Is this an acceptable manner of posting to this list, if not please correct > me. Also can someone inform me about the rendevzous in Alabama, as I live > here in Northern Alabama, and hope to be able to attend. DricPa, Greetings and welcome. Your post is just fine. While we don't stand on ceremony here it is nice when one uses the best english prose at their command just to facilitate readability. (while I love hearing the various accents and etc., they are hard to read but that is my personal preference). You might also want to consider joining another list "MLML" if you haven't already. "MLML" is devoted to muzzle loading exclusively and has a much larger audience. It will be easier to find out what shooting events are going on in your area and you might even find people close at hand to participate with. The link is below, just follow the directions: http://members.aol.com/illinewek By all means continue your persuit of membership in AMM. It is by invitation and sponsorship so you will have to make yourself visible and show your willingness and worthyness. Good luck. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: history, but not RMFT Date: 02 Mar 2001 13:20:02 EST In a message dated 3/2/01 7:08:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, amm1585@hyperusa.com writes: << T.J. Rusk is also Larry Pendleton's distant cousin, which makes Pendleton and me cousins. Ouch. >> not quite sure who deserves my condolences! Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee pot or pan Date: 02 Mar 2001 13:22:00 EST In a message dated 3/2/01 7:21:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, BrayHaven@aol.com writes: << Iron is about the only thing I haven't heard any health negatives about. >> and so how do you tin with Iron? Given the amount of time most of us spend using tin-lined vessels, does anybody think there is a great risk to us? Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: List Moderator - OT Date: 02 Mar 2001 18:08:09 -0500 My apologies to the List Moderator for haviong to change my email. Briernet is down and I have missed 3 days of messages, and many emails have bounced back to friends. Again, my apologies Ad Miller Alderson, WV ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee pot or pan Date: 02 Mar 2001 17:37:58 -0700 the copper cannisters I made my nest of pots out of, are actually stainless steel with a copper plating on the outside. and no it is'nt period correct but it will have to suffice until I can replace it with a proper set Tom ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 8:20 AM > In a message dated 3/2/2001 9:32:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, CTOAKES@aol.com > writes: > > << All our copper that we > use for cooking is tinned (on the inside) with lead free solder to protect > against that problem. > >> > > Copper is bad for you (as you mentioned). drinking water stds call for <1ppm > and now they're sayin tin is bad for you as well. TBTO (and other tin > compounds) has now been banned as a paint additive for marine use (water > pollution). Iron is about the only thing I haven't heard any health > negatives about. > Greg Sefton > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coffee pot or pan Date: 02 Mar 2001 20:48:42 -0800 and no it is'nt period correct but it will have to suffice until I can replace it with a proper set Tom >>Tom, Don't sweat it ! I and many others started out with a boiler fashioned from a coffee can. Nobody was ever born wearing braintan. We all had to start with what we could cobble together. Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "CrookedHand" Subject: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 00:26:01 -0500 Does any body here have a recipe or instructions for making jerky over an open fire????? you can reply off list if you wish. Mark "Crooked Hand" Toigo /aka/ Wethlee-Enké http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/8699 http://members.nbci.com/crookedhand/gallery.htm ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 02 Mar 2001 22:07:57 -0800 Crooked Hand, From what I have read, you just cut the meat in long strips with the grain and drape it over a pole above the smoke of the fire. No heat is really involved. Crawdad and I jerked some buffalo at the AMM Nationals a couple years back by just hanging it on ropes around camp. Dried out in a couple days. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "CrookedHand" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 01:52:22 -0500 thanks Roger... what about flies? we got cows and horses and goats.. duh.... will the smoke keep them off the meat.. and how long does the fire/smoke method take/ Mark "Crooked Hand" Toigo /aka/ Wethlee-Enké http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/8699 http://members.nbci.com/crookedhand/gallery.htm ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:07 AM > Crooked Hand, > > From what I have read, you just cut the meat in long strips with the grain > and drape it over a pole above the smoke of the fire. No heat is really > involved. > > Crawdad and I jerked some buffalo at the AMM Nationals a couple years back > by just hanging it on ropes around camp. Dried out in a couple days. > > Capt. Lahti' > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: OT : Mad Cow / Chronic Wasting Disease Date: 03 Mar 2001 02:04:53 EST Since we have lots of hunters on the list, I thought I'd throw this out... The TV show 20/20 had a segment tonight about Mad Cow Disease, and one of the so called experts from the Ag Dept. said that a form of it, called Chronic Wasting Disease was already in the United States infecting Elk and Deer in the Western US. Anybody have any more info? Don't wanna give up Caribou sausage or Venison steaks, but don't wanna end up on the ground doin' the chicken either. Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 03 Mar 2001 01:22:16 -0800 Welcome Tod A few y'alls are nice to hear... don't hear that many since planting myself in the great Northwest, and folks still look at me funny once in a while when they hear 'em. Regards from Idaho Lee Newbill House Todorovich wrote: > Hi Yall, (if ya don't speak southern then: Hello all,) > Is this an acceptable manner of posting to this list ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 08:29:27 EST In a message dated 3/3/2001 1:35:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, chand@alltel.net writes: << thanks Roger... what about flies? we got cows and horses and goats.. duh.... will the smoke keep them off the meat.. and how long does the fire/smoke method take/ >> Hunting in Alaska & Canada, we learned that a little pepper would keep flies off hanging meat. Kept the grizzlies off it too. They fed on the carcass of butchered moose every night but left the meat (peppered) hanging nearby alone. I put pepper on my jerky anyway. We could hear them out there crunching the bones. Made for light sleeping :o). Probably the way the skinners did back when. Greg Sefton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "CrookedHand" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 09:17:45 -0500 hmmmmmmm a light sleeper I am... no grizzlies here, but LOTS Of coyotes in north Florida.. REALLY... now, how LONG do you smoke the stuff Mark "Crooked Hand" Toigo /aka/ Wethlee-Enké http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/8699 http://members.nbci.com/crookedhand/gallery.htm ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 8:29 AM > In a message dated 3/3/2001 1:35:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, > chand@alltel.net writes: > > << thanks Roger... what about flies? we got cows and horses and goats.. > duh.... > will the smoke keep them off the meat.. and how long does the fire/smoke > method take/ >> > > Hunting in Alaska & Canada, we learned that a little pepper would keep flies > off hanging meat. Kept the grizzlies off it too. They fed on the carcass of > butchered moose every night but left the meat (peppered) hanging nearby > alone. I put pepper on my jerky anyway. We could hear them out there > crunching the bones. Made for light sleeping :o). Probably the way the > skinners did back when. > > Greg Sefton > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 09:15:11 EST In a message dated 3/3/2001 9:01:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, chand@alltel.net writes: << hmmmmmmm a light sleeper I am... no grizzlies here, but LOTS Of coyotes in north Florida.. REALLY... now, how LONG do you smoke the stuff >> OK, I admit it, I use my dehydrator for 7 hours. Only documentation I have is the receipt from Walmart. I have dried jerkey (venison) in the woods but we made a little containment out of palmetto fronds to direct the smoke & dry air. I think we got hungry and ate the stuff before it was properly jerked after about 6 hours. Seems it was getting close but should have been dried another few hours. Smoked fish this way too. Greg ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 07:32:40 -0700 Crooked Hand, In camps, we have done this and found that the preparation of the process (how you do it) to be more important than how you do the meat. The easiest way it to build a rack out of green sticks about four - six inches off the fire. We usually use four forked sticks as corner posts and then lay stickes over it to make a grill. Keep the fire low (if you can't keep your hand over it, it is too hot). The meat should be cut thin, to dry faster, but we have used thicknesses up to 3/8 inch and it still work, just takes longer and the outside will get done but the inside still alittle raw. Lean meat is the best. If in a primitive camp, we don't meranade the meat or add salt or pepper, just plain. I think this it the best way, you can then use it in many different foods and the meat won't pass on any flavor but it's own to the mix. Or make you thirsty when eating it. Turn the meat regualrly and keep the dogs away. If bugs are a problem in your area, make the fire smoky and this will help. I am used to doing this in the rockys, and the humility is pretty low here (maybe 8-10%), so can't help with any ideas for doing this in a high humility area. Roger is right, most meat will dry on by it's self in a few days, but by using a small fire you can speed up the process. Most of the time in camp you can do a good batch in about 4 hours. It does take some one watching the fire during this time, but they usually get to do the taste testing! mike. Oh, many people don't know what to do with all the hard, small bits of old (who knows how old) jerky that always ends up in the bottom of the jerky bag. This is the perfect stuff for the winter trail food. Why spend the time and the effort to pound up jerky for pemmican? You already have it. Roger Lahti wrote: > Crooked Hand, > > >From what I have read, you just cut the meat in long strips with the grain > and drape it over a pole above the smoke of the fire. No heat is really > involved. > > Crawdad and I jerked some buffalo at the AMM Nationals a couple years back > by just hanging it on ropes around camp. Dried out in a couple days. > > Capt. Lahti' > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OT : Mad Cow / Chronic Wasting Disease Date: 03 Mar 2001 07:37:04 -0700 Barney, The Denver Rocky Mountain News has done some very good articles on this lately. We have a area near Ft. Collins which a special hunt is being done this year to help control it. I feel this is something we need to be aware of. I saw some pictures four years ago of a deer shot by a friend (to put it out of it's misery), he reported it to the DOW and they came and took it to check out then. I might still have the articles, if the recycling hasn't went out yet. Let me know if I can get them to you. mike. LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote: > Since we have lots of hunters on the list, I thought I'd throw this out... > The TV show 20/20 had a segment tonight about Mad Cow Disease, and one of the > so called experts from the Ag Dept. said that a form of it, called Chronic > Wasting Disease was already in the United States infecting Elk and Deer in > the Western US. Anybody have any more info? Don't wanna give up Caribou > sausage or Venison steaks, but don't wanna end up on the ground doin' the > chicken either. Barney > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 09:53:37 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- >... now, how LONG do you smoke the stuff Hey Crooked Hand, "Proper" jerky is not smoked or seasoned at all. Hanging it over a fire is so the little bit of heat and smoke will keep bugs away. Use a *tough* cut of meat to start (I use round roast) with as little fat as you can possibly get. Cut it with the grain and about 1/4" thick. Season or marinate if you want but that is not *traditional*. Sun dry for about 8-10 hours or you can also do it in an oven by hanging the strips on toothpicks. Set oven on lowest temperature and prop the door open to let the moisture escape. Remember you are drying not cooking. Either way start checking it after about 6 hours. It should look like *sole* leather, dark in color and somewhat flexible. Actually, without seasoning it tastes about like sole leather too. BTW, if you want the smoke flavor without actually smoking it you can buy "liquid smoke" seasoning and if you are smoking it over a fire remember not to use a resinous wood. Hope this helps, Tim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 08:18:31 -0800 Mike, You impressed me as a pretty humble man........ "the humility is pretty low here (maybe 8-10%), so can't help with any ideas for doing this in a high humility area." hardtack ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OT : Mad Cow / Chronic Wasting Disease Date: 03 Mar 2001 11:21:17 EST --part1_92.111896cb.27d273fd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I live in the center of the main Chronic Wasting Disease Area. I t started as a project at CSU about two miles from me. A couple of infected deer escaped from pens on the West Campus and it has spread from their. The main area is now east of the foot hills (about 6500 feet) to I-25 north of Fort Collins to the Wyoming border. The Colorado Division Of Wildlife has just finished a special hunting season for this area CDOW Unit 9 (west of I-25 north of US 287 south of the Wyoming Border) Hunter could harvest as many deer as privet land owners want them to of either sex. The season ended the end of February. Deer heads were to be turned in the CDOW for test of the brain to determine if the deer had CWD. "There is no evidence that chronic wasting disease affects human, but the Division of Wildlife advises hunters to take simple precautions when handling the carcass of any deer or elk harvested in the units where CWD occurs. "Were rubber gloves when field dressing Carcasses, minimize handling brain pr spinal tissues and wash hands afterwards." This years hunting application just received lists 12 other units in north central Colo. that may have CWD. Average infected rates range from 3% to 15% in eight units (8, 9, 19, 20, 95, 96, 191, 951) with unit 9 being the highest. It is no longer required to return heads for testing. Keep out of the rut "Roadkill" Mark Loader --part1_92.111896cb.27d273fd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I live in the center of the main Chronic Wasting Disease Area.  I t started
as a project at CSU about two miles from me.  A couple of infected deer
escaped from pens on the West Campus and it has spread from their.  The main
area is now east of the foot hills (about 6500 feet) to I-25 north of Fort
Collins to the Wyoming border.  The Colorado Division Of Wildlife has just
finished a special hunting season for this area CDOW Unit 9 (west of I-25
north of US 287 south of the Wyoming Border) Hunter could harvest as many
deer as privet land owners want them to of either sex.  The season ended the
end of February.  Deer heads were to be turned in the CDOW for test of the
brain to determine if the deer had CWD.  "There is no evidence that chronic
wasting disease affects human, but the Division of Wildlife advises hunters
to take simple precautions when handling the carcass of any deer or elk
harvested in the units where CWD occurs.  "Were rubber gloves when field
dressing Carcasses, minimize handling brain pr spinal tissues and wash hands
afterwards."  This years hunting application just received lists 12 other
units in north central Colo. that may have CWD.  Average infected rates range
from 3% to 15% in eight units (8, 9, 19, 20, 95, 96, 191, 951) with unit 9
being the highest.  It is no longer required to return heads for testing.  
Keep out of the rut "Roadkill" Mark Loader --part1_92.111896cb.27d273fd_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 08:29:50 -0800 Mark, Once the meat "skins over" or gets a dry surface on it, the flies can't lay eggs and don't mess with it all that much. The smoke helps keep them away but it isn't all that necessary for the basic job of letting the meat air dry. It takes as long as it takes. Cryptic I know but it is all tied in with the ambient humidity, etc. Dry windy conditions will cause the meat to dry much faster than if it's raining. If your worried about flies crawling all over it, just cover with cheese cloth which you should be able to get in a fabric store and perhaps even in a hardware store. Just remember, the thinner you slice it, the quicker it will dry. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 10:52 PM > thanks Roger... what about flies? we got cows and horses and goats.. duh.... ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OT : Mad Cow / Chronic Wasting Disease Date: 03 Mar 2001 08:34:38 -0800 Anybody have any more info? Don't wanna give up Caribou > sausage or Venison steaks, but don't wanna end up on the ground doin' the > chicken either. Barney Barney, We are watching it closely out west here but for now, cook the meat and be careful of cuts when butchering. Magpie was the only one in our circle who made meat this year and I don't think he was all that careful with his cooking or cutting techniques. Been making some funny sounds and doing a silly dance where he flaps his arms as he jumps around randomly. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 03 Mar 2001 08:37:45 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:22 AM > Welcome Tod > > A few y'alls are nice to hear... don't hear that many since planting myself in > the great Northwest, and folks still look at me funny once in a while when they > hear 'em. Lee, Thats not why we look at you funny when we see you. But if it means all that much to you, we will start "y'all" ing you a bit more. BTW, Bonnie Lake is March 23/25, the Palouse Run is April 6/8. Be there. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 12:27:45 EST Reg Laubin's Indian Tipi book goes into some detail including how to take a "roast" and unroll it with a knife sharpened on one side. Side note: really cheap trade knives were made of iron that was casehardened. If you sharpened both sides you lost all the hardness - one side, still worked a bit. Anyway - salting and smokeing was the way the earliest european-contact meat was preserved by the French who fished the outer banks, and it was Nathanial Wyeth's plan to send salted salmon back from Oregon by ship along with the beaver hides he would have had if Sublet hadn't beat him out of the rendezvous business that year. Same preservation methods as the early French (and many others). Some Indians had it - some did not. Mostly the meat was dried on the smokey side of the fire, though, to keep the flies off of it. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "CrookedHand" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 12:51:54 -0500 OK!!!!!!!! Thanks... when the wind dies down. I have a bunch of beef and venison jerked and frozen.. will go for it.. I have a lovely pit set up here with grates. iron feet, spits and the works that a good friend and buckskinner/iron smith made for me.... can surely get it directly over the fire... wish me luck Mark "Crooked Hand" Toigo /aka/ Wethlee-Enké http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/8699 http://members.nbci.com/crookedhand/gallery.htm ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 9:32 AM > Crooked Hand, > In camps, we have done this and found that the preparation of the > process (how you do it) to be more important than how you do the meat. > The easiest way it to build a rack out of green sticks about four - six inches > off the fire. We usually use four forked sticks as corner posts and then lay > stickes over it to make a grill. Keep the fire low (if you can't keep your hand > > over it, it is too hot). The meat should be cut thin, to dry faster, but we > have used > thicknesses up to 3/8 inch and it still work, just takes longer and the outside > > will get done but the inside still alittle raw. Lean meat is the best. If in a > primitive > camp, we don't meranade the meat or add salt or pepper, just plain. I think > this > it the best way, you can then use it in many different foods and the meat won't > > pass on any flavor but it's own to the mix. Or make you thirsty when eating it. > > Turn the meat regualrly and keep the dogs away. If bugs are a problem in your > area, make the fire smoky and this will help. I am used to doing this in the > rockys, > and the humility is pretty low here (maybe 8-10%), so can't help with any ideas > > for doing this in a high humility area. > Roger is right, most meat will dry on by it's self in a few days, but by > using a small > fire you can speed up the process. Most of the time in camp you can do a good > batch > in about 4 hours. It does take some one watching the fire during this time, but > they > usually get to do the taste testing! > mike. > Oh, many people don't know what to do with all the hard, small bits of old (who > > knows how old) jerky that always ends up in the bottom of the jerky bag. This > is the perfect stuff for the winter trail food. Why spend the time and the > effort to > pound up jerky for pemmican? You already have it. > > Roger Lahti wrote: > > > Crooked Hand, > > > > >From what I have read, you just cut the meat in long strips with the grain > > and drape it over a pole above the smoke of the fire. No heat is really > > involved. > > > > Crawdad and I jerked some buffalo at the AMM Nationals a couple years back > > by just hanging it on ropes around camp. Dried out in a couple days. > > > > Capt. Lahti' > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "CrookedHand" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 12:56:17 -0500 I am so advised... will so do.. and thanks Mark "Crooked Hand" Toigo /aka/ Wethlee-Enké http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/8699 http://members.nbci.com/crookedhand/gallery.htm ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 11:29 AM > Mark, > > Once the meat "skins over" or gets a dry surface on it, the flies can't lay > eggs and don't mess with it all that much. The smoke helps keep them away > but it isn't all that necessary for the basic job of letting the meat air > dry. It takes as long as it takes. Cryptic I know but it is all tied in with > the ambient humidity, etc. Dry windy conditions will cause the meat to dry > much faster than if it's raining. > > If your worried about flies crawling all over it, just cover with cheese > cloth which you should be able to get in a fabric store and perhaps even in > a hardware store. > > Just remember, the thinner you slice it, the quicker it will dry. > > Capt. Lahti' > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "CrookedHand" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 10:52 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky > > > > thanks Roger... what about flies? we got cows and horses and goats.. > duh.... > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jdearing" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OT : Mad Cow / Chronic Wasting Disease Date: 03 Mar 2001 12:05:54 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0A3DA.4C91DE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Deer heads were to be turned in the CDOW for test of the=20 >brain to determine if the deer had CWD. "There is no evidence that = chronic=20 >wasting disease affects human, but the Division of Wildlife advises = hunters=20 >to take simple precautions when handling the carcass of any deer or = elk=20 >harvested in the units where CWD occurs. "Were rubber gloves when = field=20 >dressing Carcasses, minimize handling brain pr spinal tissues and = wash hands=20 >afterwards." =20 It's my understanding that the prion that causes this disease is = confined to the brain and spinal cord, so avoid eating those parts of the animal. And = since=20 infected spinal cord material _could_ be smeared on the various cuts = of meat by commercial meat processors when they cut through the spine, that = caution _could_ include meat cut by commercial processors. I debone all my meat, and this, as of this time, appears one way to = avoid contracting=20 the disease. The experts claim that CWD does not affect humans, but = why take=20 chances? BTW, I wonder how the anti's will put their spin on this to "prove" = that eating wild meat is=20 bad for us. =20 J.D. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0A3DA.4C91DE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
>Deer heads were = to be turned=20 in the CDOW for test of the
>brain to determine if the deer had = CWD.=20  "There is no evidence that chronic
>wasting disease = affects=20 human, but the Division of Wildlife advises hunters
>to take = simple=20 precautions when handling the carcass of any deer or elk =
>harvested in=20 the units where CWD occurs.  "Were rubber gloves when field=20
>dressing Carcasses, minimize handling brain pr spinal tissues = and wash=20 hands
>afterwards."  
 
It's my understanding that the prion = that causes=20 this disease is confined to the
brain and spinal cord, so avoid = eating those=20 parts of the animal. And since
infected spinal cord material = _could_  be=20 smeared on the various cuts of meat by
commercial meat processors when = they cut=20 through the spine, that caution _could_
 include meat=20 cut by commercial processors.
 
I debone all my meat, and this, as of = this time,=20 appears one way to avoid contracting
the disease. The experts claim that = CWD does not=20 affect humans, but why take
chances?
 
BTW, I wonder how the anti's will put = their spin=20 on this to "prove" that eating wild meat is
bad for us. 
J.D.
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0A3DA.4C91DE80-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20OT=20:=20=20Mad=20Cow=20/=20Chroni?= Date: 03 Mar 2001 14:03:33 EST In a message dated 3/3/01 8:31:33 AM, rtlahti@email.msn.com writes: << Magpie was the only one in our circle who made meat this year and I don't think he was all that careful with his cooking or cutting techniques. Been making some funny sounds and doing a silly dance where he flaps his arms as he jumps around randomly. >> SQUAAAAARK!!!..... Seems to me you ate your share of that critter when=20 you were here last...... only put Crawdad down with an ulcer. That ain't ba= d=20 meat...with the right amount of "sauce".... Magpie =20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 03 Mar 2001 11:14:52 -0800 > Roger Lahti wrote: > Thats not why we look at you funny when we see you. But if it means all that > much to you, we will start "y'all" ing you a bit more. Capt. Y'all have truly wounded my poor, tender feelings. Me poor, abused heart weeps silent tears. And to think of all those miles us pilgrims had to lug you in that Sedan chair.... with the poles cutting into our shoulders, and you laying the whip freely upon us.... I still haven't found that requirment on the pilgrim's list at Dean's site. My suspicions grow..... Lee Newbill Humble Pilgrim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 03 Mar 2001 14:16:00 -0500 ". I still haven't found that requirment on the pilgrim's list at Dean's site." Lee, Keep lookin'... I hadda make my Brigade Booshway's bed, keep him "watered" and attempt to keep alive one of the Hiveranno's that signed my papers.. I never found those in there either, but I was told that they are "implied"... So I figger if I can find a Pilgrim that sticks, I will live cushy.. Cause in the last few years my eyesight has gotten some better and I can see ALL those requirement writ down plain as the nose on yer face.. D P.S. Rog, The sedan chair sure sound a mite more comfortable than the travois I had in mind... D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GHickman@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Mad Cow/Chronic Wasting Disease Date: 03 Mar 2001 14:51:42 EST This was a response I made on another list to a question on Mad Cow/Chronic Wasting Disease, seen recently on a TV report. There are more questions than answers and it is something to be aware of. "They have it in Colorado and Wyoming in the wild populations. Game farm elk in Montana were destroyed this year with it. I believe that game farm elk have also had it in Oklahoma, one other state, and in 2000 it appeared in one of the Canadian provinces, I think Saskatchewan. It was also found on a game farm there. The disease was traced back to Montana from animals shipped to Oklahoma that came down with the disease. The Wyoming Game & Fish Department has an informational flyer on the disease and I'm sure that Colorado must too. Montana has a new flyer out, but it is mostly a copy of the Wyoming flyer. It is not a new disease and has been known for +20 years in Colorado then into Wyoming. I have worked for the Montana FWP in collecting CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease) samples for the past to years in our local check station and on confiscated game in our area. So far Montana has not found the disease in the wild populations, but we are very concerned about it. The disease cannot be detected without killing the animal and taking brain, tonsil and/or spinal samples. Brain, tonsil and spinal samples are put in formaldehyde and on ice. They are usually processed at the lab within 48 hours of kill. There is no cure for CWD and we aren't even sure what causes it or how it is spread. We do know it is manifested as a prion, which is a "mutated' or altered protein. We don't know what causes the protein to be different. Animals may not even be symptomatic for years (7-12 years) and are probably passing it to their off spring during that period. When they do become symptomatic they are dying and usually do die within weeks or days. There is more that we don't know than we do know about this disease. In recent years it has most commonly been found in game farm animals. It does not seem to kill all animals that get it and it seems that not all animals will get it. So far CWD has not been linked to humans although neither was mad cow disease, initially. As much as I love brain tan I would be very reluctant to handle brains now. As a minimum I would wear rubber gloves, insure I had no cuts or open wounds, and disinfect everything when I was through. I would also be concerned about disposal of the left over brain material. A friend who brain tans says he has been doing it for years and he doesn't have it. I say you don't know you have it until you become symptomatic and then it is too late. I don't want to be an alarmist and I don't want to say much more and get it any more wrong than I already have. All of my information and notes are at the office. I would contact your state game agencies for the latest information within your area. In closing I'm still eating elk and deer I kill here in Montana. I always cook meat well, and I also did not make any elk or deer jerky the last two years. I made all of my jerky from antelope. However, I've given up handling brains and probably will not brain tan this year. I also wear gloves and disinfect my hands, knives and saws after gutting, and again after any butchering. Including putting all clothes in the laundry with a little bleach. I carry some disposable rubber gloves in a zip lock to wear when gutting/dield dressing deer and elk. At work we disinfect all tools, gloves, aprons, rubber boots, and work areas with Novasol (sp.). Then we wash hands with 70% isopropyl alcohol followed by antibacterial soap. To give this some historic/black powder content I did kill all of my deer in Montana with black powder for the past 4 years (that's 8 deer). Be careful." YMOS Ghosting Wolf ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 03 Mar 2001 12:02:31 -0800 > And to think of all those miles us pilgrims had to lug you in that Sedan > chair.... with the poles cutting into our shoulders, and you laying the whip > freely upon us.... Lee!!!!!!!!! For crying out loud! That's secret AMM stuff that we don't want the public to know about. I still haven't found that requirment on the pilgrim's list > at Dean's site. Of course not. It's secret stuff! Now if you want to discuss this, do it off list just with me. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GHickman@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Fur Trade Symposium Date: 03 Mar 2001 15:00:15 EST Here is a reply I got from Randy Kane at Fort Union regarding when the 2000 Fur Trade Symposium proceedings would be available. If you didn't go you missed a fantastic 3 days of fur trade history. Good news is that the proceedings will cover most topics, if you've already forgotten or couldn't go. YMOS Ghosting Wolf AKA Bead Shooter AKA Gene Hickman The Symposium Proceedings will be printed at the end of March. Cost will be $5.00 for each Symposium participant and $8.95 for everyone else. The $5.00 rate is for one book each for each Symposium participant. Add $1.30 for shipping and 5% sales tax for North Dakota residents. Make check out to Fort Union Association and send check to: Fort Union Trading Post 15550 HWY 1804 Williston, ND 58801 or order by credit card: 1-800-434-0233. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 14:58:27 -0700 Randy, Well, you should be glad that you are a good friend. Like always, Denise who does my proofing and editing on the articles will kill me. By the way, remind me not to spell your name right or say anything good about you on the next article, when we meet again. You know, 8- 10 % is pretty good for us writers! See you on the canoe trip. mike. Randal J Bublitz wrote: > Mike, You impressed me as a pretty humble man........ > > "the humility is pretty low here (maybe 8-10%), so can't help with any > ideas > > for doing this in a high humility area." > > hardtack > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 03 Mar 2001 15:45:43 -0700 Capt, I didn't know you were a Democrat! I smell a cover up....... "Teton" Todd D. Glover www.homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:humility Date: 03 Mar 2001 15:39:53 -0800 > [Original Message] > From: Mike Moore > To: > Date: 3/3/01 1:58:27 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky > > Randy, > Well, you should be glad that you are a good friend. Like always, > Denise who does my proofing and editing on the articles will kill me. > By the way, remind me not to spell your name right or say anything > good about you on the next article, when we meet again. > You know, 8- 10 % is pretty good for us writers! See you on the > canoe trip. > mike. Hi Mike, sorry..... couldn't resist . You do write fine articles... Especially the one that mentions me . We are looking forward to the canoe trip on the Upper Missouri. Did you receive the newsletter? We will see "Scenes of Visionary Enchantment" (Lewis & Clark Journals). The White Cliffs are worth seeing. We'll be nearly to Canada, a long ways off.... I also look forward to seeing Ft. Benton again. Lots of Fur Trade History there. See you soon amigo mio. hardtack --- Randal Bublitz --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 03 Mar 2001 15:58:44 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 2:45 PM > Capt, > > I didn't know you were a Democrat! I smell a cover up....... I'm not but then you must not know Republicans all that well..... Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 03 Mar 2001 17:10:00 -0700 well....ahem...there was that one Nixon feller, but I wasn't old enough to vote then. "Teton" Todd D. Glover www.homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 03 Mar 2001 19:30:49 EST In a message dated 3/3/01 9:01:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, chand@alltel.net writes: << now, how LONG do you smoke the stuff >> Till it looks and feels like dried meat. No particular time limit. Obviously, a wet, damp day does not lend itself to dry meat. Just have to do it and learn. Applewood or green hickory chips on the fire lend a nice taste. It is fun to do and try. Not a task for a 30 minute time limit, though!!!! -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 03 Mar 2001 19:59:45 EST In a message dated 3/3/01 11:59:57 AM, rtlahti@email.msn.com writes: << For crying out loud! That's secret AMM stuff that we don't want the public to know about. >> I guess me having to root through the briar patches to flush out pheasants for you to shoot at was secret stuff too...... ! Hang in there Lee.... we'll be Bossloper's ....hell, HIVERANNO's, soon, and then they'll dance to a different tune! Ah... Good Capt Lahti.....you need me to pack another jug of Capt Morgan's finest to the Enumclaw show....sir? Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 03 Mar 2001 20:03:51 EST In a message dated 3/3/01 11:16:58 AM, deforge1@bright.net writes: << Cause in the last few years my eyesight has gotten some better and I can see ALL those requirement writ down plain as the nose on yer face.. D >> Dennis, You boys are putting new meaning into the term "indentured servant".... Magpie Rank Pilgrum AMM ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Basic BS/NADA Date: 03 Mar 2001 17:36:22 -0800 > Ah... Good Capt Lahti.....you need me to pack another jug of Capt Morgan's > finest to the Enumclaw show....sir? Magpie, Naw, I foisted you off on another Party so you don't have to kiss up anymore. Besides I only need to be drunk when I'm camped with you. We really should take this personal bs off this list. It's ok on the members list but it can get to be too much quick on here. A little goes a long ways. Sorry folks for the banter amongst brothers. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Basic BS/NADA Date: 03 Mar 2001 20:43:05 -0500 I like it. Linda Holley Roger Lahti wrote: > > Ah... Good Capt Lahti.....you need me to pack another jug of Capt Morgan's > > finest to the Enumclaw show....sir? > > Magpie, > > Naw, I foisted you off on another Party so you don't have to kiss up > anymore. Besides I only need to be drunk when I'm camped with you. > > We really should take this personal bs off this list. It's ok on the members > list but it can get to be too much quick on here. A little goes a long ways. > Sorry folks for the banter amongst brothers. > > Capt. Lahti' > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wind1838@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: ACROSS THE SEASONS - Off Topic Date: 03 Mar 2001 20:47:30 EST --part1_7c.1266c034.27d2f8b2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends: There's only one thing better than finally having my novel, ACROSS THE SEASONS, in print, and that is a positive review from Dr. Fred Gowans (ROCKY MOUNTAIN RENDEZVOUS and many, many others), and a personal letter from Charlton Heston. Charlton Heston: "I, too, have been intrigued by Osborne Russell. And the first film my son, Fraser, wrote was THE MOUNTAIN MEN. I must say, it was a thrill for me to do that film with my son. I wish you well with your book as with all else." I don't have Dr. Gowans' written review, but I talked to him this week and he said he thoroughly enjoyed the novel and would never think of Osborne Russell the same way again. I found much of my encouragement and found the answers to many of my questions on this "history list." I heartily thank you. If any of you are interested in purchasing a copy of my book, it would be my pleasure to send you a copy. The cost is $17.95. Shipping is $1.50 (7 day delivery) or $3.50 for Priority Mail (2-3 days). My address is Laura Glise, 5289 Lake Hills Street SE, Olympia, WA 98513. I would be happy to autograph your copy if you will send me the particulars. You may also ask your local bookstore to order you a copy. Again, thank all of you for helping me find my way across the seasons. Laura Glise ACROSS THE SEASONS ISBN 1-55212-625-0 Trafford Publishing --part1_7c.1266c034.27d2f8b2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends:

There's only one thing better than finally having my novel, ACROSS THE
SEASONS, in print, and that is a positive review from Dr. Fred Gowans (ROCKY
MOUNTAIN RENDEZVOUS and many, many others), and a personal letter from
Charlton Heston.

Charlton Heston: "I, too, have been intrigued by Osborne Russell.  And the
first film my son, Fraser, wrote was THE MOUNTAIN MEN.  I must say, it was a
thrill for me to do that film with my son.  I wish you well with your book as
with all else."

I don't have Dr. Gowans' written review, but I talked to him this week and he
said he thoroughly enjoyed the novel and would never think of Osborne Russell
the same way again.

I found much of my encouragement and found the answers to many of my
questions on this "history list."  I heartily thank you.  If any of you are
interested in purchasing a copy of my book, it would be my pleasure to send
you a copy.  The cost is $17.95.  Shipping is $1.50 (7 day delivery) or $3.50
for Priority Mail (2-3 days).  My address is Laura Glise, 5289 Lake Hills
Street SE, Olympia, WA 98513.  I would be happy to autograph your copy if you
will send me the particulars.  You may also ask your local bookstore to order
you a copy.

Again, thank all of you for helping me find my way across the seasons.
Laura Glise
ACROSS THE SEASONS
ISBN 1-55212-625-0
Trafford Publishing --part1_7c.1266c034.27d2f8b2_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wind1838@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Enumclaw, Washington March 10, 11 Date: 03 Mar 2001 20:49:59 EST --part1_74.841b5e3.27d2f947_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Captain Lahti: I'll have the coffee on in my booth at Enumclaw. You and your lovely bridge just bring your cups, and of course, the Capt Morgan's. Magpie, you're welcome too. Laura Jean --part1_74.841b5e3.27d2f947_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Captain Lahti:

I'll have the coffee on in my booth at Enumclaw.  You and your lovely bridge
just bring your cups, and of course, the Capt Morgan's.  Magpie, you're
welcome too.

Laura Jean --part1_74.841b5e3.27d2f947_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wind1838@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Enumclaw, Washington March 10, 11 Date: 03 Mar 2001 20:52:31 EST --part1_dc.316ec38.27d2f9df_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Captain Lahti: Excuse me, that's BRIDE not BRIDGE. My sincerest apologies. Hell, I haven't even helped myself to the Jack Daniels yet. I don't have any excuse, except failure to proofread. Laura Jean --part1_dc.316ec38.27d2f9df_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Captain Lahti:

Excuse me, that's BRIDE not BRIDGE.  My sincerest apologies.  Hell, I haven't
even helped myself to the Jack Daniels yet.  I don't have any excuse, except
failure to proofread.

Laura Jean --part1_dc.316ec38.27d2f9df_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Basic BS/NADA Date: 03 Mar 2001 21:06:35 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > I like it. > Roger Lahti wrote: > > We really should take this personal bs off this list. It's ok on the members > > list but it can get to be too much quick on here. A little goes a long ways. > > Sorry folks for the banter amongst brothers. So do I. IMHO, the "banter" is what makes a group like this *human*. Otherwise I'm sitting here looking at a plastic box with a bunch of circuits in it. If I just wanted the dry facts and instructions I'd be reading a book, a technical report or a web page. Waiting for the blizzard in Baltimore, Tim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Buck Conner" Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 03 Mar 2001 19:46:08 -0700
And to think of all those miles us pilgrims had
to lug you in that Sedan chair.... with the poles
cutting into our shoulders,.............

My suspicions grow.....

Lee Newbill
Humble Pilgrim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Hey Pilgrim", didn't that sound like the Duke!!!

If that would have been Larry, Dennis and myself
we would have carried the good Capt. tied to the
pole and gagged, then told everyone in camp of
our great hunt and what we got. <GGG> "You should
be leary Pilgrim", starting to feel like watch
one old them old shootem ups videos.

Oh, about the sheep jokes boys, do you want the
edited or uncut photos? How about Dennis does
Moooissouri, sorry kid couldn't help it.








Take care,
Buck Conner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://pages.about.com/conner1/
http://pages.about.com/buckconner/
"Rival the best - Surpass the rest".
___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com

---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Buck Conner" Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: OT : =?iso-8859-1?B?oE1hZA==?= Cow / Chronic Wasting Disease Date: 03 Mar 2001 19:55:20 -0700
&nb= sp;=A0 =A0The Denver Rocky Mountain News has done some
very good articles on this lately. We have a area
near Ft. Collins  which a special hunt is being
done this year to help control it. I feel this is
something =A0we need to be aware of. I saw some
pictures four years ago of a deer shot by a
friend (to put it out of it's misery), he
reported it to the DOW and they came and took it
to check out then. I might still have the
articles........
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mike,

Just got back a few hours ago from Ft.Collins,
visiting a few friends and the rifle shop,
Trapper tells me that the DOW was at his place
checking some deer and an elk that possibly was
infected with this. So it's still an issue in
northern Colorado and southern Wyoming at this
time.

Oh Mike, Trapper's son got a 180 lb. mountain
lion last week eating on a deer above the house
and this morning his wife saw 3 more in the lower
field, another growing problem in this area.








Take care,
Buck Conner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://pages.about.com/conner1/
http://pages.about.com/buckconner/
"Rival the best - Surpass the rest".
___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com=

---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Basic BS/NADA Date: 03 Mar 2001 21:32:43 -0600 On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 21:06:35 -0500 "Tim Jewell" writes: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Linda Holley" > > > I like it. > > > Roger Lahti wrote: > Sorry folks for the banter amongst brothers. > > > So do I. IMHO, the "banter" is what makes a group like this > *human*. Otherwise I'm sitting here looking at a plastic box > with a bunch of circuits in it. If I just wanted the dry facts and > instructions I'd be reading a book, a technical report or a web page. Tim Capt. Lahti, I agree with Linda and Tim. I read dry facts and technical medical studies all day long. I need levity now and then. Besides, I distinctly remember your telling me that Magpie made funny noises and jumped around randomly while flapping his arms LONG before he ate that piece of meat!!! Howsomever, (as Titus Bass would say) Magpie will deny it, just as he vehemently denied being that feller who got his hands caught in a trap and had to fly his airplane home with his feet. Victoria ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Enumclaw, Washington March 10, 11 Date: 03 Mar 2001 22:32:08 EST In a message dated 3/3/01 5:50:47 PM, Wind1838@aol.com writes: << Magpie, you're welcome too. Laura Jean >> Thanks Laura Jean......good to know some one really cares about us "pilgrims"....(sob) And good luck with your book! ....I trust you'll have some "autographed" copies at the Enumclaw show and I'll look for you there. Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Basic BS/NADA Date: 03 Mar 2001 22:13:17 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 5:43 PM > I like it. > > Linda Holley Linda, Thanks but we're just trying to be considerate of our neighbors. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Enumclaw, Washington March 10, 11 Date: 03 Mar 2001 22:14:12 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C0A42F.4721F5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ms. Laura Jean, Can't pass an offer like that up. See you there. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wind1838@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 5:49 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Enumclaw, Washington March 10, 11 Captain Lahti:=20 I'll have the coffee on in my booth at Enumclaw. You and your lovely = bridge=20 just bring your cups, and of course, the Capt Morgan's. Magpie, = you're=20 welcome too.=20 Laura Jean=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C0A42F.4721F5C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ms. Laura Jean,
 
Can't pass an offer like that up. See you = there.
 
Capt. Lahti'
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Wind1838@aol.com=20
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 = 5:49=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Enumclaw, = Washington=20 March 10, 11

Captain = Lahti:=20

I'll have the coffee on in my booth at Enumclaw.  You and = your=20 lovely bridge
just bring your cups, and of course, the Capt = Morgan's.=20  Magpie, you're
welcome too.

Laura Jean=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C0A42F.4721F5C0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Basic BS/NADA Date: 03 Mar 2001 22:21:54 -0800 > Howsomever, (as Titus Bass would say) Magpie > will deny it, just as he vehemently denied being that > feller who got his hands caught in a trap and had to > fly his airplane home with his feet. > > Victoria Ms. Victoria, He is a wonderment to us, that he is. Hiverrano? Yeah maybe in my lifetime! Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Basic BS/NADA Date: 03 Mar 2001 22:17:59 -0800 Tim and Linda, Thanks for your support. We won't stop but will keep it reasonable. Capt. Lahti' > So do I. IMHO, the "banter" is what makes a group like this *human*. > Otherwise I'm sitting here looking at a plastic box with a bunch of circuits > in it. If I just wanted the dry facts and instructions I'd be reading a > book, a technical report or a web page. > > Waiting for the blizzard in Baltimore, > Tim > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Enumclaw, Washington March 10, 11 Date: 03 Mar 2001 22:16:17 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0A42F.911EB1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's OK. That's what editors are for. I'll arrange for my signed = copy at the show. How about that?! Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wind1838@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 5:52 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Enumclaw, Washington March 10, 11 Captain Lahti:=20 Excuse me, that's BRIDE not BRIDGE. My sincerest apologies. Hell, I = haven't=20 even helped myself to the Jack Daniels yet. I don't have any excuse, = except=20 failure to proofread.=20 Laura Jean=20 ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0A42F.911EB1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That's OK. That's what editors are for. <G> = I'll arrange=20 for my signed copy at the show. How about that?!
 
Capt. Lahti'
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Wind1838@aol.com=20
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 = 5:52=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Enumclaw,=20 Washington March 10, 11

Captain = Lahti:=20

Excuse me, that's BRIDE not BRIDGE.  My sincerest = apologies.=20  Hell, I haven't
even helped myself to the Jack Daniels yet. =  I=20 don't have any excuse, except
failure to proofread.

Laura=20 Jean ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0A42F.911EB1E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 04 Mar 2001 16:22:37 -0800 > Roger Lahti wrote: > Of course not. It's secret stuff! Now if you want to discuss this, do it off > list just with me. Greaaat. That probably means another hunnert miles in harness..... and the Lord help us if we hit a pothole! Sigh. Lee Newbill "Tounge in Cheek" ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Basic BS/NADA Date: 04 Mar 2001 16:25:55 -0800 > Roger Lahti wrote: > We really should take this personal bs off this list. It's ok on the members > list but it can get to be too much quick on here. A little goes a long ways. > Sorry folks for the banter amongst brothers. Sorry 'bout that. Consider it gone. Lee Newbill of North Idaho ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Question from new subsciber Date: 04 Mar 2001 18:26:22 -0800 > > Greaaat. That probably means another hunnert miles in harness..... and the Lord > help us if we hit a pothole! > > Sigh. > > Lee Newbill Lee, That was a pretty convincing "sigh" but it ain't gona get you no Bossloper Papers! Now you just buff up on jerky and parched corn. I got another "challenge" coming up for you and the rest of the team. Capt. Lahti' "Biting my tounge" ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover Subject: MtMan-List: Humorous Period Story Date: 04 Mar 2001 19:34:45 -0700 Hello All, Bout half way through the latest Titus Bass book. Been good so far, crossing my fingers that no more tragedies befall the ole boy. I recently reread Volume 1 of the "River of the West." There was a humorous story that got me laughing. Thought I'd share it with you all. Hyars to put out.... "Whenever a trapper could get ahold of any sort of story reflecting on the courage of a leader, he was sure at some time to make him aware of it, and these anecdotes were sometimes sharp answers in the mouths of the careless campkeepers. Bridger was once waylaid by Blackfeet, who shot at him hitting his horse in several places. The wounds caused the animal to rear and pitch, by reason of which violent movements Bridger dropped his gun, and the Indians snatched it up; after which there was nothing to do except to run, which Bridger accordingly did. Not long after this as was customary, the leader was making a circuit of camp examining the camp-keepers guns, to see if they were in order, and found that of one Maloney, an Irishman, in a very dirty condition. "What would you do" asked Bridger, "With a gun like that, if the Indians were to charge into camp?" "Be Jasus, I would throw it to them, and run away the way ye did," answered Maloney, quickly. It was sometime after this incident before Bridger again examined Maloney's gun." A good tale to end or start the week on. Have a good one men...... "Teton" Todd D. Glover http://homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Basic BS/NADA Date: 04 Mar 2001 18:30:04 -0800 No need to apologize Lee. We can have a little fun. Capt. Lahti' > Sorry 'bout that. Consider it gone. > > Lee Newbill of North Idaho > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg Subject: Re: MtMan-List: jerky Date: 05 Mar 2001 08:24:42 -0600 I seem to remember seeing a food preservation demo at the White Oak Rendezvous where they mashed up raspberries and spread this on the meat they were jerking. Said the flies didn't like the acid in the berries. Jim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 05 Mar 2001 14:13:48 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A57E.7F810C80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0A57E.7F810C80" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0A57E.7F810C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just thought I would put this up for your perusal. Some of you have = eaten my pemmican and are still a kickin'. It is a simple time-proven = method. D http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/Pemmican.html ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0A57E.7F810C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just thought I would put this up for = your=20 perusal. Some of you have eaten my pemmican and are still a kickin'. It = is a=20 simple time-proven method.
D
 

 http://www.bright.= net/~deforge1/Pemmican.html ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0A57E.7F810C80-- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A57E.7F810C80 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Pemmican.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Pemmican.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/Pemmican.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/Pemmican.html Modified=6065893CA8A5C00198 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A57E.7F810C80-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 05 Mar 2001 14:13:48 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A57E.7F810C80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0A57E.7F810C80" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0A57E.7F810C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just thought I would put this up for your perusal. Some of you have = eaten my pemmican and are still a kickin'. It is a simple time-proven = method. D http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/Pemmican.html ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0A57E.7F810C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just thought I would put this up for = your=20 perusal. Some of you have eaten my pemmican and are still a kickin'. It = is a=20 simple time-proven method.
D
 

 http://www.bright.= net/~deforge1/Pemmican.html ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0A57E.7F810C80-- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A57E.7F810C80 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Pemmican.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Pemmican.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/Pemmican.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/Pemmican.html Modified=6065893CA8A5C00198 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A57E.7F810C80-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20Pemmican?= Date: 05 Mar 2001 14:26:24 EST Huh? Nothing was posted Dennis....put the jug down...man! Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: MtMan-List: Portable Soup Date: 05 Mar 2001 14:32:50 -0500 Hello the Camp, I've been making my own jerky for quite a few years. I'm getting ready to try D's pemmican recipe. I'll follow the directions exactly, if you don't here from me you'll know what happened . Now to my question, has anyone on the list made/used portable soup and where can I get a recipe for it? Thanks, Tim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Portable Soup Date: 05 Mar 2001 14:39:37 -0500 Tim, I made the portable soup reciept from the Williamsburg Art of Cookery, I think Pablo has too.. D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 05 Mar 2001 14:41:21 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0A582.583D0760 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0037_01C0A582.583D0760" ------=_NextPart_001_0037_01C0A582.583D0760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Magpie.... Click the below link.. It was on the other message as = well....=20 http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/Pemmican.html=20 What has the Cap't done to you??? D ------=_NextPart_001_0037_01C0A582.583D0760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Magpie.... Click the below link.. It = was on the=20 other message as well....

 http://www.bright.= net/~deforge1/Pemmican.html=20
 
What has the Cap't  done to = you??? =20 <G>
D
------=_NextPart_001_0037_01C0A582.583D0760-- ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0A582.583D0760 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Pemmican.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Pemmican.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/Pemmican.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/Pemmican.html Modified=6065893CA8A5C00198 ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0A582.583D0760-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Portable Soup Date: 05 Mar 2001 15:04:04 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > Tim, > I made the portable soup reciept from the Williamsburg Art of Cookery, I > think Pablo has too.. > D Thanks D, I found it in the archives dating way back to June 1996. I'm going to give that a try while I'm in the kitchen. Tim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Portable Soup Date: 05 Mar 2001 15:07:25 -0500 Tim Allota work, but it keeps well and is a welcome break on the trail... D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sickler, Louis L" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Portable Soup Date: 05 Mar 2001 13:32:47 -0700 Tim, Here's a receipt I have book marked on the web. Maybe this is the one in the list archives. http://www.wwnorton.com/pob/SpottedD/psoup.htm Haven't tried it myself, "she who must be obeyed" won't let me use our largest stock pots for anything but brewing BEER. Can't hardly argue over that. She's seen too many kitchen experiments in the past to trust what I may put into her homebrew fixins. I would like to try it sometime, though. Guess I'll just have to buy my own pots. Good luck and let me know how it turns out. Lou Sickler > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Jewell [SMTP:tjewell@home.com] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 12:33 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: Portable Soup > > Hello the Camp, > > I've been making my own jerky for quite a few years. I'm getting ready to > try D's pemmican recipe. I'll follow the directions exactly, if you don't > here from me you'll know what happened . > > Now to my question, has anyone on the list made/used portable soup and > where > can I get a recipe for it? > > Thanks, > Tim > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Two Crows" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Mt. Lions Date: 05 Mar 2001 21:02:18 -0500 Mt. Lions ain't the problem. Human encroachment is the problem. If you're lucky enough to see a cougar, shoo him off and thank god they're still around. I don't care how mant joggers they eat. Two Crows David Brown & Kristin Poulsen Wollendael 4419 Gore-Subligna Rd. Summerville, GA 30747 "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." --Benjamin Franklin 1759 dbrown@wavegate.com http://www.2crows2.com > Oh Mike, Trapper's son got a 180 lb. mountain
> lion last week eating on a deer above the house
> and this morning his wife saw 3 more in the lower
> field, another growing problem in this area.
>
>
>





Take care,
> Buck Conner
the message. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 05 Mar 2001 19:06:29 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0A5A7.624849C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable D. you might want to use this spelling for recipe. Deer tallow here has = a strong off taste. Is it better tasting in your area? Walt I just thought I would put this up for your perusal. Some of you have = eaten my pemmican and are still a kickin'. It is a simple time-proven = method. D ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0A5A7.624849C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

D. you might want to use = this spelling for=20 recipe.  Deer tallow here has a strong off taste.  Is it = better=20 tasting in your area?
 
Walt
I just thought I would put this up = for your=20 perusal. Some of you have eaten my pemmican and are still a kickin'. = It is a=20 simple time-proven method.
D
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0A5A7.624849C0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 05 Mar 2001 22:42:02 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A5C5.7ED67C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt Just using the 18C spelling....Only one I know. Thje deer here are corn fed, better'n beef.. Not strong at all. D ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A5C5.7ED67C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Walt
Just using the 18C spelling....Only one = I=20 know.
Thje deer here are corn fed, better'n = beef.. Not=20 strong at all.
D
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A5C5.7ED67C60-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Hafen's MM & the Fur Trade series for sale Date: 06 Mar 2001 01:06:06 EST This Sunday evening, March 11, the Pikes Peak Library Dist. will be having a fund-raiser auction and one of the items up for bid is the complete set of mint-condition Hafen ed., MOUNTAIN MEN & THE FUR TRADE (reportedly unstamped, unmarked and pristine in every way.) I would buy these myself, but I just don't have the money right now. Opening bid is set at $500 (a steal at the going rate) anybody wanting to bid on these ought to contact Colo. Sprgs book dealer Doug Clausen at 719-471-5884. I would just prefer seeing these books go to a private fur-trade scholar rather than seeing them snapped up by a Denver book dealer. Good luck, John R. Sweet ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Mt. Lions (off topic) Date: 06 Mar 2001 01:15:13 EST "Mt. Lions ain't the problem. Human encroachment is the problem. If you're lucky enough to see a cougar, shoo him off and thank god they're still around. I don't care how mant joggers they eat. Two Crows David Brown & Kristin Poulsen Wollendael 4419 Gore-Subligna Rd. Summerville, GA 30747" No, I don't suppose lions are any sort of a problem in Georgia, but when they stroll past my kid's bus stop at 8AM in the morning, like they did last Spring, and the local CO Dept. of Wildlife gal is completely unconcerned about it (and won't even call me to go catch this human-habituated lion, despite the fact that I've got the dog power to get it done) then we start to recognize a problem. The town I live in is 110 years old, and the lion walked right thru the middle of it, so I don't think human encroachment displaced this lion and forced him into town. Perhaps increased human contact caused him to lose a healthy fear of man. But lions should be pursued aggressively, harvested to the limit of current morality quotas (which they aren't in CO or WY, et. al.), and enjoyed from afar. John R. Sweet ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Buck Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mt. Lions Date: 06 Mar 2001 05:47:15 -0700
agreed people are the problem, but when they have
moved into a farming area that has been in
operation since right after the Civil War and
start killing livestock, domestic farm animals,
etc., then theres no choose.







Take care,
Buck Conner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://pages.about.com/conner1/
http://pages.about.com/buckconner/
"Rival the best - Surpass the rest".
___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com

---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Buck Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mt. Lions (off topic) Date: 06 Mar 2001 05:51:40 -0700
well said.






Take care,
Buck Conner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://pages.about.com/conner1/
http://pages.about.com/buckconner/
"Rival the best - Surpass the rest".
___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com

---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Pennsylvania Rifle Date: 06 Mar 2001 10:57:08 -0600 Howdy camp! Wondering if any of you folks have any first-hand knowledge of Predersoli's work. (We, up here in the Great White North, don't have access to the same makers you Yanks do.) Planning on buying a Pedersoli Pennsylvania in .45 Cal, plain Jane variety. Hoping it will make an ok smokepole for a Pilgrim. (It will join the stable with a .54 Hawken style that doesn't like my shoulder and a .45 cal Remington New Army.) Opinions appreciated (and I know you fellas wont hesitate!). Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charlie Webb Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Pennsylvania Rifle Date: 06 Mar 2001 10:26:54 -0700 > Wondering if any of you folks have any first-hand knowledge of > Predersoli's work. Hi, The early Pedersoli guns had some lock problems and were a bit dificult to get parts for. The guns shot very well and were fairly well finished. (Metal to wood.) The locks they are producing today have the tumbler connected to the mainspring via a stirup which is very quick. Is one of the best sparking locks available off the rack. I have not seen a newer Pedersoli fail at the range, nor do they require the maintainence that the older ones required. Respectfully, C Webb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mt. Lions (off topic) Date: 06 Mar 2001 16:17:24 EST In a message dated 3/6/01 4:49:01 AM, conner1@about.com writes: <<
well said. >> Hey Buck....whats all the stuff up on the header? Have to search for your note... You getting free e-mail again? .... Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Buck Conner" Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mt. Lions (off topic) Date: 06 Mar 2001 19:16:56 -0700 Hey Buck....whats all the stuff up on the header? Have to search for your note... You getting free e-mail again? .... Ymos, Magpie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sorry Magpie, This damn e-mail server has a box that needs to be "clicked off" that puts html messages on the header, will try and remember to click it off. Sorry. Take care, Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ "Rival the best - Surpass the rest". ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Remember the Alamo Date: 06 Mar 2001 21:02:19 -0600 My brother wrote this and sent it to me tonight. I thought some of you might be interested. Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 8:00 PM > On this date in 1836, in a broken down old mission in the town of San > Antonio de Bexar, 187 cold, hungry, frightened men met their fate and became > patriots. These men faced over 4000 highly trained and well equipped > soldiers of an army that had never been defeated in battle. For twelve days > these men had endured constant bombardment,poor food, limited water and > harassing attacks by the enemy. At one point, these men had been given an > opportunity by their commanding officer to withdraw with honor, but none did > so. Each man knew what the consequences would be, but they never wavered in > their duty. > > In a little over an hour, the battle was over. Those few who survived and > surrendered were immediately put to the sword. Their mutilated bodies were > added to the funeral pyre of their fallen comrades and burned until little > remained. No gravestone marks their resting place. No flowers are placed by > grieving family. But these men did not die in vain. Their sacrifice enabled > another commander to rally his vastly outnumbered forces and defeat the army > of Santa Anna at a place called San Jacinto. > > These patriots endured their Thirteen Days of Glory and ensured their place > in history for all time. Let all who love freedom throughout the world > remember this day and "Remember the Alamo!" > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Wind Walker and Lay the Mountains Low Date: 06 Mar 2001 23:12:55 EST Was in Wally world due to circumstances beyond my control yesterday and just happened to catch a vid-clip of Terry Johnston telling about Lay the Mountains Low...reportedly a series of actual events which occurred in history and woven into a tale by Johnston. Anyone read this one yet. IT is available in paperback and promises to be a treat. Also, Wally world (down in th southeast at least) has WindWalker for @ $17.00 in hardback. -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 06 Mar 2001 09:27:59 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C0A61F.BC404720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable D., It is the taste of the tallow or grease additive to the pemmican I am = talking about. The meat is good. But the tallow of deer at least in my = experience around here. The deer tallow has an strong off taste. Walt ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C0A61F.BC404720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
D.,
It is the taste of the tallow or grease = additive to=20 the pemmican I am talking about.  The meat is good.  But the = tallow of=20 deer at least in my experience around here.  The = deer tallow has=20 an strong off taste.  Walt
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C0A61F.BC404720-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 07 Mar 2001 08:09:30 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C0A6DD.EFB9FA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt, I was talking about the tallow. If it is purified (probably not the = right word) it is almost tastless. Like me.. If you start with = strong fat, you will get strong tallow... D ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C0A6DD.EFB9FA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Walt,
 I was talking about the tallow. = If it is=20 purified (probably not the right word) it is almost tastless.  Like = me..<G>  If you start with strong fat, you will get strong=20 tallow...
D
------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C0A6DD.EFB9FA60-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Pennsylvania Rifle Date: 07 Mar 2001 08:21:55 EST --part1_32.118bd8b0.27d78ff3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/6/01 11:57:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes: > Wondering if any of you folks have any first-hand knowledge of Predersoli's > Hi Dianne, We own a .36 (and it uses a .36 ball) Pedersoli Pennsylvania rifle (one of the old ones) and it works well. I replaced the main spring (no problem getting parts) as the original was cracked. But after that it works and looks great. We have a friend that shoots a .32 at all the local shoots and even out to 75 yards he is always in the money and loves it. In fact he likes his so much that he convinced another club member who was getting his first flinter to buy the .45 you are interested in. He got his from Kennedy Arms last fall and I helped him sight it in. Out of the box it shot tight groups and looked and worked well (after I got him a real flint that fit the lock). Fit and finish was real nice and for the price it is a good buy. Should give you years of fun. Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes --part1_32.118bd8b0.27d78ff3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/6/01 11:57:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes:


Wondering if any of you folks have any first-hand knowledge of Predersoli's
work.


Hi Dianne,

We own a .36 (and it uses a .36 ball) Pedersoli Pennsylvania rifle (one of
the old ones) and it works well.  I replaced the main spring (no problem
getting parts) as the original was cracked.  But after that it works and
looks great.  We have a friend that shoots a .32 at all the local shoots and
even out to 75 yards he is always in the money and loves it.  In fact he
likes his so much that he convinced another club member who was getting his
first flinter to buy the .45 you are interested in.  He got his from Kennedy
Arms last fall and I helped him sight it in.  Out of the box it shot tight
groups and looked and worked well (after I got him a real flint that fit the
lock).  Fit and finish was real nice and for the price it is a good buy.  
Should give you years of fun.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes --part1_32.118bd8b0.27d78ff3_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 07 Mar 2001 06:40:53 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A6D1.8EA493E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt, I was talking about the tallow. If it is purified (probably not = the right word) it is almost tastless. Like me.. If you start with = strong fat, you will get strong tallow...D Morning D., You are lucky. I have never managed to get good tasting tallow from = deer here in Montana for making pemmican. I end up cutting off all the = fat I can for just regular cooking. =20 I have access to buffalo nearby. And have been wanting to try it on = pemmican. Maybe this year. I have been really intrigued about the pemmican trade and the buffalo = robe trade between the Yellowstone and Missoui Rivers. It looks like = the robe and pemmican trade really took off during the 1830s between = these 2 rivers. Walt ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A6D1.8EA493E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Walt,  I=20 was talking about the tallow. If it is purified (probably not the right = word) it=20 is almost tastless.  Like me..<G>  If you start with = strong fat,=20 you will get strong tallow...D
 
Morning D.,
 
You are lucky.  I have never = managed to get=20 good tasting tallow from deer here in Montana for making pemmican.  = I end=20 up cutting off all the fat I can for just regular cooking.  =
 
I have access to buffalo nearby.  = And have=20 been wanting to try it on pemmican.  Maybe this year.
 
I have been really intrigued about the = pemmican=20 trade and the buffalo robe trade between the Yellowstone and Missoui=20 Rivers.  It looks like the robe and pemmican trade really took off = during=20 the 1830s between these 2 rivers.
 
Walt
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A6D1.8EA493E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: 54 Cal round ball Date: 07 Mar 2001 09:52:33 -0600 Ho camp! Got another question for you experienced BP riflemen (and women). I have a 54 Cal Hawken style that I have had for 20 years. I have never shot anything except conicals with it and it is hard on my shoulder so I haven't shot it much. I'd like to buy a round ball mold and try shooting some patched balls before I give up on it (as being too abusive). Now, I don't have ANY information from the maker so I don't know what diameter of ball mold I should look for. Considering the cost of molds, I don't want to get stuck with the wrong size. As to "working up a load" for accuracy, I assume it is the same process in a front-loader that it is with smokeless - "start small and work up"? Thanks camp. I'll sit back, light my pipe, and listen to the discussion. Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sickler, Louis L" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: 54 Cal round ball Date: 07 Mar 2001 09:34:37 -0700 Dianne, Do you know someone near you that may shoot .54? I would suggest "borrowing" a few .530 round balls and get some .010 and .015 patches and see if that size fits your bore. Obviously, you don't want it too tight, or too loose. But I think you could get a hold of a few different size balls and see what fits before buying the mould. If you want, contact me off-list and I'll send you a handful of .530's, that's what my .54 likes best. You should definitely notice a difference in the kick as compared to conicals. Lou Sickler > -----Original Message----- > From: Best, Dianne [SMTP:dbest@hydro.mb.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:53 AM > To: 'MountainMan Digest' > Subject: MtMan-List: 54 Cal round ball > > Ho camp! > > Got another question for you experienced BP riflemen (and women). > > I have a 54 Cal Hawken style that I have had for 20 years. I have never > shot > anything except conicals with it and it is hard on my shoulder so I > haven't > shot it much. > > I'd like to buy a round ball mold and try shooting some patched balls > before > I give up on it (as being too abusive). > > Now, I don't have ANY information from the maker so I don't know what > diameter of ball mold I should look for. Considering the cost of molds, I > don't want to get stuck with the wrong size. > > As to "working up a load" for accuracy, I assume it is the same process in > a > front-loader that it is with smokeless - "start small and work up"? > > Thanks camp. I'll sit back, light my pipe, and listen to the discussion. > > Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 54 Cal round ball Date: 07 Mar 2001 09:03:57 -0800 > I have a 54 Cal Hawken style that I have had for 20 years. I have never shot > anything except conicals with it and it is hard on my shoulder so I haven't > shot it much. Dianne, Does it have a fairly slow twist rate? At least 1-48 or slower? That can be important when deciding whether a round ball will even work in it readily. Too fast a twist and it is a crap shoot as to whether you can stabilize the ball. Not knowing what make it is, etc. I've heard that some guns that should have been round ball guns were fitted with very fast twist barrels to appeal to the new BP shooter wanting to use something familiar like a concial. > > I'd like to buy a round ball mold and try shooting some patched balls before > I give up on it (as being too abusive). Of course it could just be that your trying to use too much powder with that conical and thus creating more recoil than necessary. > > Now, I don't have ANY information from the maker so I don't know what > diameter of ball mold I should look for. Considering the cost of molds, I > don't want to get stuck with the wrong size. The cheapest route to go is to try ready cast or swedged balls from Lee, etc. The most you will be out is the price of a box of balls or small sample package. Maybe $5/7 bucks. Actually you can check the bore size by measuring the size of conicals normally used. If that measurement comes in at a clean .54+- a bit then I would suggest the first ball size you try is .530 using a .015 to .020 patch. Of course patches are cheap to buy, try and pitch. The .530 size ball should be fairly easy to load and if they work fair then consider a tighter ball such as a .535 and thinner patch. But the bottom line is still buying a box of premade balls until you know what size the gun favors before investing in a mold. When you work up the load, CW suggests you start at 1 grain per cal. up to 1-1/2 grain per cal. shooting three to five shot groups at a simple target off a bench rest close range. Wipe consistently after every shot. When you reach some kind of "plateau" switch powder granulation to see if that makes a difference. Same with patch and lube. My recommendation is to start "natural" and stay natural with lubes. You might also avail yourself of Dutch's Accuracy System if the gun seems promising at all. Hope this gets you started. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: manbear Subject: MtMan-List: NEWSPAPER-YELLOWSTONE FUR TRADER FORTS-1818 on Ebay Date: 07 Mar 2001 12:23:57 -0700 --------------E06D623C4B47A575A59840A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List friends, I just came across this old paper on Ebay and thought that someone on the list might be interested in its historical content. Manbear http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1120106504 --------------E06D623C4B47A575A59840A6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List friends,
I just came across this old paper on Ebay and thought that someone on the list might be interested in its historical content.
Manbear

 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1120106504 --------------E06D623C4B47A575A59840A6-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Mt. Lion Date: 07 Mar 2001 11:59:09 -0600 Two Crows said "Mt. Lions ain't the problem. Human encroachment is the problem. If you're lucky enough to see a cougar, shoo him off and thank god they're still around. I don't care how many joggers they eat." I agree (mostly) and I have lived with Cougar within spitting distance for the past 20 years. If the cat is healthy and there is something in the wild for them to eat, they don't want nothing to do with humans - they stay away from anything that carries human scent. (Well, except for the time I was sitting on the edge of the bush in the evening watching the White Tail deer and mommy Cougar snuck up on my down-wind side close enough to check me out REAL good!) You have to be a pretty good woodsman to get a close up look at a live cougar. And if you have ever watched a cougar run down a White Tail right in front of your eyes . . . well, I will tell you boys, that is one of THE most special memories in my life! (Hard to do much but watch when yer jaw's hangin down around yer boot laces!) I've been know to give various critters the "bum's rush" into deeper woods to keep them out of harm's way. Good on ya Two Crows! Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: .54 mold Date: 07 Mar 2001 12:15:10 -0600 Dianne asked about a .54 cal. rifle, Dianne, frequently one must resolve to ending up with a 'library' of molds to fit different rifles, and even different shooting situations for one rifle. Lee molds are inexpensive and worth trying in different sizes. If you go to gun shows you may be able to pick up used ones for a very low price. Other than that, the only way to determine size you need/want is to try different sizes with different patch thicknesses. More than likely a .530 or .535 will be what you end up with. You can sometimes buy pre-cast balls at shows, shoots or rendezvous. Even the ones which come in plastic boxes from Wally World can be used for testing. Borrow some from a friend if possible. You should have a fairly tight fit but not so much that you must force the ball down the barrel, especially after a couple shots. And only time spent on the range will tell you the most accurate patch/ball/charge combo. Also you might end up using the .535 for target shooting and the .530 for hunting. All that said, I believe you are the only person who can really answer your question. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: 54 Cal round ball Date: 07 Mar 2001 12:28:17 -0600 Thanks for all the suggestions. In this part of the country, finding an "assortment of round balls" is next to impossible! The local stores just laugh when you mention blackpowder. When I wanted to buy a cap & ball revolver and a new flinter, they refused to even order them in for me. If they can't sell a dozen a year, they wont touch it. Anyway, that's the long way about to say that's why I posed the question to the Camp - because I have to make one guess and go for it. I can (and will) measure the twist rate and post it (maybe tomorrow). As to powder charge, I backed the charges WAY down when the Hawken kept abusing my shoulder, so I am not over-feeding it. As to actually bore size, what is the best way to measure it - calipers over the largest part of the diameter? Or would I be better to start a conical part way, pull it, and measure the conical? Thanks also for the thoughts on working up a load. (I'll need to do that again on my new Pennsylvania when it arrives - oh boy! It's like Christmas around here!) Thanks camp! Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Card Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Enumclaw, Washington March 10, 11 Date: 07 Mar 2001 13:28:10 -0500 I just assumed he had some really nice dental work done, and you wanted t= o see it. That would explain his need for "indentured" servants...to clean said bridgework. -David- >Captain Lahti: > >Excuse me, that's BRIDE not BRIDGE. My sincerest apologies. Hell, I haven't = >even helped myself to the Jack Daniels yet. I don't have any excuse, except = >failure to proofread. > >Laura Jean ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 54 Cal round ball Date: 07 Mar 2001 11:12:14 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:28 AM > Thanks for all the suggestions. > > In this part of the country, finding an "assortment of round balls" is next > to impossible! Dianne, Then either order some via a cataloge or let some of the guys send you some. It will only take a handfull to find out what your gun likes. The Lee Molds are good molds and should not be overlooked. Dixie sells "curling iron" and brass bag molds for even less and they will work fine if you pay attention to good casting practices. I have a brass .530 mold from them that has given me many deer and placed me up at the top of the shooters list with the balls it throws. What size concial do you shoot in that barrel and how does it go down. That should tell you pretty close what size barrel you have. I don't see any reason to get too scientific about it for hunting and casual target shooting. The "bore size" is land to land though it is nice to know the groove depth, just not necessary. The conical has to be close to bore size or it won't go down. You can drop a brass drift down the bore and either start a conical or an over size chunck of lead, then bang it back out with the drift but often bores have odd numbers of lands and grooves and that makes it hard to measure off the slug though it isn't impossible or rocket science. Hope that helps some. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: MtMan-List: Virus Protection Date: 07 Mar 2001 11:19:42 -0800 - WIN32/NAKED.WORM Outlook e-mail worm This morning on the Today Show, they mentioned a new virus that had just come out. Just a few minutes ago Computer Associates sent me an update to add to my free anti-virus program from them to take care of this new virus. Now that is service. Free Program and free timely updates! Computer Associates free InoculateIT is available at this link. http://antivirus.ca.com/ Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard J. Holliday, DVM" Subject: MtMan-List: "Titus Bass" Books Date: 07 Mar 2001 16:02:37 -0600 --=====================_26299673==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Greetings, Several months ago someone on this list recommend the "Titus Bass" series of books written by Terry Johnston as being a good read. As a result, I have accumulated all 8 current paperback books and have read all of them with great enjoyment. Some I bought new and the rest I purchased from Ebay ... all are in good to excellent shape. If anyone is interested in purchasing this set to read before they read the last volume please contact me. I also have all three volumes of the "Jonas Hook" trilogy Have a great day! Doc Holliday ********************************* Richard J. Holliday, DVM Holistic Dairy Veterinarian 203 2nd St N E Waukon, Iowa 52172 319 568 3624 Regular Correspondence Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com All other mail, FWD's, jokes, etc Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com WebPage http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html ****************************** --=====================_26299673==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Greetings,

Several months ago someone on this list recommend the "Titus Bass" series of books written by Terry Johnston as being a good read. As a result, I have accumulated all 8 current paperback books and have read all of them with great enjoyment. Some I bought new and the rest I purchased from Ebay ... all are in good to excellent shape.

If anyone is interested in purchasing this set  to read  before they read the  last volume please contact me.

I also have all three volumes of the "Jonas Hook" trilogy

Have a great day!
Doc Holliday


*********************************
Richard J. Holliday, DVM
Holistic Dairy Veterinarian
203 2nd St N E    Waukon, Iowa  52172
319 568 3624
Regular Correspondence Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com
All other mail, FWD's, jokes, etc Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com
WebPage  http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html
******************************
 --=====================_26299673==_.ALT-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: don shero Subject: MtMan-List: .54 cal round ball Date: 07 Mar 2001 16:43:55 -0600 Hi Dianne, yep, they are right, don't buy a mould yet, or you may be buying several, till you get the right size. buy the RB's till you find the right size. Your .54 with ball with light loads may surprise you how low recoil will be, compared to the conicals. To shoot .54 conicals for 20 yrs, I'm impressed. I shoot a .50 with 90 grs. BP 540 gr. bullet, then cry like a baby. You may also be able to shoot accurately for target and hunting with a lower powder load, then you won't be needing that peashooter . don ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DSJohn2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 54 Cal round ball Date: 07 Mar 2001 18:50:35 EST I would be glad to send you some .520s and .525s if you want. D. S. Johnson (lurker) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 54 Cal round ball Date: 07 Mar 2001 17:50:22 -0600 Dianne, Track of the Wolf 763-424-2500 http://www.trackofthewolf.com/ sells both swaged and cast round ball in .520, .526, .530, .535 and a bun= ch=20 of other sizes for about $8.00 per 50 to 100 They got a bunch of other stuff, and have always delivered to me promptly. John... At 12:28 PM 3/7/01 -0600, you wrote: >Thanks for all the suggestions. > >In this part of the country, finding an "assortment of round balls" is n= ext >to impossible! The local stores just laugh when you mention blackpowder. >When I wanted to buy a cap & ball revolver and a new flinter, they refus= ed >to even order them in for me. If they can't sell a dozen a year, they wo= nt >touch it. > >Anyway, that's the long way about to say that's why I posed the questio= n to >the Camp - because I have to make one guess and go for it. > >I can (and will) measure the twist rate and post it (maybe tomorrow). > >As to powder charge, I backed the charges WAY down when the Hawken kept >abusing my shoulder, so I am not over-feeding it. > >As to actually bore size, what is the best way to measure it - calipers = over >the largest part of the diameter? Or would I be better to start a conica= l >part way, pull it, and measure the conical? > >Thanks also for the thoughts on working up a load. (I'll need to do that >again on my new Pennsylvania when it arrives - oh boy! It's like Christm= as >around here!) > >Thanks camp! > >Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< mail to: ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "Titus Bass" Books Date: 07 Mar 2001 16:30:07 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00FF_01C0A723.DF1BAA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Doc, I'll kick myself if I don't jump on this offer. If you still haven't = gotten an offer I'll take them. Price being important of course. How = much and where do I send the check? Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Richard J. Holliday, DVM=20 To: hist_text@xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 2:02 PM Subject: MtMan-List: "Titus Bass" Books Greetings, Several months ago someone on this list recommend the "Titus Bass" = series of books written by Terry Johnston as being a good read. As a = result, I have accumulated all 8 current paperback books and have read = all of them with great enjoyment. Some I bought new and the rest I = purchased from Ebay ... all are in good to excellent shape.=20 If anyone is interested in purchasing this set to read before they = read the last volume please contact me. I also have all three volumes of the "Jonas Hook" trilogy Have a great day!=20 Doc Holliday ********************************* Richard J. Holliday, DVM Holistic Dairy Veterinarian 203 2nd St N E Waukon, Iowa 52172 319 568 3624 Regular Correspondence Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com All other mail, FWD's, jokes, etc Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com WebPage http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html ****************************** ------=_NextPart_000_00FF_01C0A723.DF1BAA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Doc,
 
I'll kick myself if I don't jump on this offer. If = you still=20 haven't gotten an offer I'll take them. Price being important of course. = <G> How much and where do I send the check?
 
Capt. Lahti'
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Richard J.=20 Holliday, DVM
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 = 2:02=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: "Titus = Bass"=20 Books

Greetings,

Several months ago = someone on=20 this list recommend the "Titus Bass" series of books written by Terry = Johnston=20 as being a good read. As a result, I have accumulated all 8 current = paperback=20 books and have read all of them with great enjoyment. Some I bought = new and=20 the rest I purchased from Ebay ... all are in good to excellent shape. =

If anyone is interested in purchasing this set  to = read =20 before they read the  last volume please contact me.

I = also have=20 all three volumes of the "Jonas Hook" trilogy

Have a great day! =
Doc=20 Holliday

*********************************
Richard J. Holliday,=20 DVM
Holistic=20 Dairy Veterinarian
203 2nd St N E    Waukon, = Iowa =20 52172
319 568 3624
Regular Correspondence Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com
All other mail, = FWD's,=20 jokes, etc Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com
WebPage  http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html
******************************

------=_NextPart_000_00FF_01C0A723.DF1BAA00-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard J Holliday Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "Titus Bass" Books Date: 07 Mar 2001 19:07:53 -0600 --=====================_3215702==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Capt. I thought $24.00 ($3 apiece for 8 books) plus actual shipping would be fair. What do you think? Doc At 04:30 PM 3/7/01 -0800, you wrote: >Doc, > >I'll kick myself if I don't jump on this offer. If you still haven't >gotten an offer I'll take them. Price being important of course. How >much and where do I send the check? > >Capt. Lahti' >----- Original Message ----- >From: Richard J. Holliday, DVM >To: hist_text@xmission.com >Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 2:02 PM >Subject: MtMan-List: "Titus Bass" Books > >Greetings, > >Several months ago someone on this list recommend the "Titus Bass" series >of books written by Terry Johnston as being a good read. As a result, I >have accumulated all 8 current paperback books and have read all of them >with great enjoyment. Some I bought new and the rest I purchased from Ebay >... all are in good to excellent shape. > >If anyone is interested in purchasing this set to read before they read >the last volume please contact me. > >I also have all three volumes of the "Jonas Hook" trilogy > >Have a great day! >Doc Holliday > > > >********************************* >Richard J. Holliday, DVM >Holistic Dairy Veterinarian >203 2nd St N E Waukon, Iowa 52172 >319 568 3624 >Regular Correspondence Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com >All other mail, FWD's, jokes, etc Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com >WebPage http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html >****************************** *********************************************** Richard J. Holliday, DVM Office: 319 568 3401 Holistic Dairy Consultant Residence 319 568 3624 203 2nd St. N.E. Fax: 319 568 4359 Waukon, Iowa 52172 Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com or Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html *********************************************** "Those who teach must constantly hold up the challenge to study nature, not books." William A. Albrecht, Ph.D. --=====================_3215702==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Capt.

I thought $24.00 ($3 apiece for 8 books) plus actual shipping would be fair.  What do  you think?  <G> 

Doc

At 04:30 PM 3/7/01 -0800, you wrote:
Doc,
 
I'll kick myself if I don't jump on this offer. If you still haven't gotten an offer I'll take them. Price being important of course. <G> How much and where do I send the check?
 
Capt. Lahti'
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard J. Holliday, DVM
To: hist_text@xmission.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 2:02 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: "Titus Bass" Books

Greetings,

Several months ago someone on this list recommend the "Titus Bass" series of books written by Terry Johnston as being a good read. As a result, I have accumulated all 8 current paperback books and have read all of them with great enjoyment. Some I bought new and the rest I purchased from Ebay ... all are in good to excellent shape.

If anyone is interested in purchasing this set  to read  before they read the  last volume please contact me.

I also have all three volumes of the "Jonas Hook" trilogy

Have a great day!
Doc Holliday



*********************************
Richard J. Holliday, DVM
Holistic Dairy Veterinarian
203 2nd St N E    Waukon, Iowa  52172
319 568 3624
Regular Correspondence Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com
All other mail, FWD's, jokes, etc Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com
WebPage  http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html
******************************

***********************************************
Richard J. Holliday, DVM       Office: 319 568 3401
Holistic Dairy Consultant         Residence 319 568 3624
203 2nd St. N.E.                     Fax: 319 568 4359
Waukon, Iowa 52172
Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com or Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html
***********************************************
"Those who teach must constantly hold up
the challenge to study nature, not books."
William A. Albrecht, Ph.D.

--=====================_3215702==_.ALT-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: "Titus Bass" Books Date: 07 Mar 2001 20:16:02 EST Sell the Titus Bass series? I'd sell the family Bible first. Corse I'd have to give mine away in the condition they are in now. I've read them all 4 times. I'm saving fer a set in hardback now. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "Titus Bass" Books Date: 07 Mar 2001 17:26:17 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0A72B.B81E4E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Doc, Sounds fine with me. Let me know what the total will be and where to = send the check. If you want to take this off list now, that would be = fine with me.=20 Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Richard J Holliday=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 5:07 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "Titus Bass" Books Capt. I thought $24.00 ($3 apiece for 8 books) plus actual shipping would be = fair. What do you think? =20 Doc At 04:30 PM 3/7/01 -0800, you wrote: Doc, =20 I'll kick myself if I don't jump on this offer. If you still haven't = gotten an offer I'll take them. Price being important of course. How = much and where do I send the check? =20 Capt. Lahti'=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Richard J. Holliday, DVM=20 To: hist_text@xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 2:02 PM=20 Subject: MtMan-List: "Titus Bass" Books Greetings, Several months ago someone on this list recommend the "Titus Bass" = series of books written by Terry Johnston as being a good read. As a = result, I have accumulated all 8 current paperback books and have read = all of them with great enjoyment. Some I bought new and the rest I = purchased from Ebay ... all are in good to excellent shape.=20 If anyone is interested in purchasing this set to read before = they read the last volume please contact me. I also have all three volumes of the "Jonas Hook" trilogy Have a great day!=20 Doc Holliday *********************************=20 Richard J. Holliday, DVM=20 Holistic Dairy Veterinarian=20 203 2nd St N E Waukon, Iowa 52172=20 319 568 3624=20 Regular Correspondence Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com=20 All other mail, FWD's, jokes, etc Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com=20 WebPage http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html=20 ****************************** ***********************************************=20 Richard J. Holliday, DVM Office: 319 568 3401=20 Holistic Dairy Consultant Residence 319 568 3624=20 203 2nd St. N.E. Fax: 319 568 4359=20 Waukon, Iowa 52172=20 Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com or Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html=20 ***********************************************=20 "Those who teach must constantly hold up=20 the challenge to study nature, not books."=20 William A. Albrecht, Ph.D. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0A72B.B81E4E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Doc,
 
Sounds fine with me. Let me know what the total will = be and=20 where to send the check. If you want to take this off list now, that = would be=20 fine with me.
 
Capt. Lahti'
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Richard J=20 Holliday
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 = 5:07=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "Titus = Bass"=20 Books

Capt.

I thought $24.00 ($3 apiece for 8 books) = plus=20 actual shipping would be fair.  What do  you think? =20 <G> 

Doc

At 04:30 PM 3/7/01 -0800, you = wrote:
Doc,
 
I'll kick myself if = I don't=20 jump on this offer. If you still haven't gotten an offer I'll take = them.=20 Price being important of course. <G> How much and where do I = send the=20 check?
 
Capt. Lahti'=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Richard J. = Holliday,=20 DVM=20
To: hist_text@xmission.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 2:02 PM=20
Subject: MtMan-List: "Titus Bass" Books

Greetings,

Several months ago someone on this list recommend the "Titus = Bass"=20 series of books written by Terry Johnston as being a good read. As = a=20 result, I have accumulated all 8 current paperback books and have = read all=20 of them with great enjoyment. Some I bought new and the rest I = purchased=20 from Ebay ... all are in good to excellent shape.

If anyone is interested in purchasing this set  to = read =20 before they read the  last volume please contact me.

I also have all three volumes of the "Jonas Hook" = trilogy

Have a great day!=20
Doc Holliday



*********************************=20
Richard J. Holliday, DVM=20
Holistic Dairy Veterinarian=20
203 2nd St N E    Waukon, Iowa  52172=20
319 568 3624=20
Regular Correspondence Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com=20
All other mail, FWD's, jokes, etc Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com=20
WebPage  http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html=20 =
******************************

***********************************************
Richard = J.=20 Holliday, DVM       Office: 319 568 3401 =
Holistic Dairy = Consultant        =20 Residence 319 568 3624
203 2nd St.=20 = N.E.           &nb= sp;        =20 Fax: 319 568 4359
Waukon, Iowa 52172
Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com or Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html=20
***********************************************
"Those who = teach must=20 constantly hold up
the challenge to study nature, not books." =
William=20 A. Albrecht, Ph.D.

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0A72B.B81E4E00-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard J Holliday Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: "Titus Bass" Books Date: 07 Mar 2001 20:45:08 -0600 --=====================_9050982==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed You are probably right ... I'm pushin 70 years old ... I might not have time to read them again. Doc At 08:16 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >Sell the Titus Bass series? I'd sell the family Bible first. Corse I'd have >to give mine away in the condition they are in now. I've read them all 4 >times. I'm saving fer a set in hardback now. > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html *********************************************** Richard J. Holliday, DVM Office: 319 568 3401 Holistic Dairy Consultant Residence 319 568 3624 203 2nd St. N.E. Fax: 319 568 4359 Waukon, Iowa 52172 Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com or Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html *********************************************** "Those who teach must constantly hold up the challenge to study nature, not books." William A. Albrecht, Ph.D. --=====================_9050982==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <BG> You are probably right ... I'm pushin 70 years old ...  I might not have time to read them again. <G>
Doc

At 08:16 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote:
Sell the Titus Bass series?  I'd sell the family Bible first. Corse I'd have
to give mine away in the condition they are in now. I've read them all 4
times. I'm saving fer a set in hardback now.  <GR>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

***********************************************
Richard J. Holliday, DVM       Office: 319 568 3401
Holistic Dairy Consultant         Residence 319 568 3624
203 2nd St. N.E.                     Fax: 319 568 4359
Waukon, Iowa 52172
Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com or Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/rjhdvm/holvet.html
***********************************************
"Those who teach must constantly hold up
the challenge to study nature, not books."
William A. Albrecht, Ph.D.

--=====================_9050982==_.ALT-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: trapper@cillnet.com (Brad Everett) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: "Titus Bass" Books Date: 07 Mar 2001 21:07:35 -0600 So, have you got to read to read Wind Walker yet. If not, I,ve got a copy I'll loan you for a while. I think it might be the best one since the first. The Bible,(Carry the Wind.) What an ending! Trapper, Trek'n through time, backwards! ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 7:16 PM > Sell the Titus Bass series? I'd sell the family Bible first. Corse I'd have > to give mine away in the condition they are in now. I've read them all 4 > times. I'm saving fer a set in hardback now. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican-Different Recipe??? Date: 07 Mar 2001 21:43:14 -0600 The following is a quote from H.M. Robinson's "The Great Fur Land." "Take the scrapings from the driest outside corner of a very stale piece of cold roast beef, add to it lumps of rancid fat, then garnish all with long human hairs and short hairs of dogs and oxen and you have a fair imitation of common pemmican." ("Empire of the Bay-An Illustrated History of the Hudson's Bay Company" by Peter C. Newman, 1989, page 121) I had always looked forward to my first bite of pemmican, but after reading this............ Perhaps it is an aquired taste. Victoria ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) Subject: MtMan-List: Future Alamo Remembrance (matches 1836 with precision) Date: 08 Mar 2001 00:19:39 -0500 (EST) Sunday March 6th, 2016 (only 15 years ahead - the 180th). This one could be a VERY SPECIAL remembrance ceremony - solemn and sacred - an EXTRA powerful period rush. The same at San Jacinto Battlefield on Thursday, April 21st. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Michigan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 54 Cal round ball Date: 07 Mar 2001 23:47:19 -0500 On Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:28:17 -0600 "Best, Dianne" writes: >. > Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) I have a stack of different 54 cal molds and mold them on a regular basis---can send you a sample of 10 or 20 of each size if you need to deturmine the size of your rifle or cant get then locally I have .515, .527, 530,.535, .545, and .562 I think but would have to check to verify--- let me know your needs Nuff said--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) Subject: MtMan-List: Across the Seasons Date: 08 Mar 2001 01:06:54 -0500 (EST) Would be outstanding if Laura Jean's book gets made into a movie (History Channel?, PBS?). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Michigan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Across the Seasons Date: 08 Mar 2001 05:37:55 -0600 Jon Marinetti wrote: Would be outstanding if Laura Jean's book gets made into a movie (History Channel?, PBS?). Believe me, the thought has crossed her mind. It's a great read, whether or not it makes it to the big screen. Lanney Ratcliff Click below for more info from the publisher: http://www.trafford.com/trafford.acgi$view-item?item=732&66191900-12928aaa ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Across the Seasons Date: 08 Mar 2001 06:32:06 -0700 "Sarah saw the panoramic view of the five mountain ranges and felt their raw power" A quote from Laura Jean's book. Question: Are the 5 mountain ranges seen. The Beartooths, Crazys, Pryors, Big Horns and Snowies? Walt ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: .54 cal ball size Date: 08 Mar 2001 07:38:50 -0600 Diane asked, Diane, for practical purposes, there is no real need to measure your bore to the inth degree. Knowing the size to the third or fourth decimal point will not help you shoot more accurately. There is a good method of determining a patch/ball combo that will work for you. It is an excellent starting point but only shooting and tinkering with all factors will get you into the Xs on a regular basis. Get yerself several types of patch cloth that you are considering for your rifle. Mebbe a real thin one like airplane cloth, little thicker like pillow ticking and a thick one like denim. Be sure they are large peices, not tiny pre-cuts. Lube a spot on the cloth. Then take some of the balls you are considering using, place ball/patch over the bore like you are going to load [no charge in barrel] and short start it to about one fourth inch down the bore, no more. Then grab the patch cloth and pull out. Mentally note how easy/difficult it was to short start then pull out. Examine the ball. It should clearly show the barrel riflings and the weave pattern of the cloth. If the ball went in very easily and came out the same and does not show those markings clearly, it is probably not a good fit, too loose. Either a larger ball or thicker patch is called for. Repeat the process with the other thickness patches. If you access to more than one ball size, repeat the process with those. A combination of how it 'feels' going in and out and the rifling/weave pattern will guide you to what will work best in your rifle. This system works very well for me. For most shooting situations I invariably end up with what this test reveals. Back when I was seriously hunting the elusive 'X' ring, I would go to a larger ball size. i.e. normal was a .445, target was .457. p.s. There's always Dixie and the other mail order houses. But messing with shipping pre-cast balls will probably end up as expensive as buying a couple Lee moulds. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wind1838@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Across the Seasons Date: 08 Mar 2001 11:33:00 EST Walt: Look again. They are traveling across the Continental Divide. Came east from the Tetons along the Gros Ventre River. Your next guess? Sorry, I don't have any prizes to award! I'm off to Enumclaw to sell my novel for the first time. Laura Jean ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican-Different Recipe??? Date: 08 Mar 2001 13:02:42 EST In a message dated 3/7/01 7:44:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, vapate@juno.com writes: << I had always looked forward to my first bite of pemmican, but after reading this............ >> If made with some of the recipes already given, its a very meaty tasting, highly energetic, long lasting food source. I've read articles about Pemmican that was found after having been properly made and stored for 100+ years, and it was still in perfect condition. Barn ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Across the Seasons Date: 08 Mar 2001 11:57:35 -0700 > Walt:> Look again. They are traveling across the Continental Divide. Came east from the Tetons along the Gros Ventre River. Your next guess? Sorry, I don't have any prizes to award! I'm off to Enumclaw to sell my novel for the first time. > Laura Jean Laura Jean, Within 10 miles of the winter camp attended by a large party of mountain men in 1836 - 1837 is a place where you can see the Beartooths, Big Horns, Pryors, Crazies, Snowies, Little Belts, and the Bull Mountains. Osborn Russel was in this winter camp. Have fun selling. Walt ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Buck Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mt. Lions (off topic) Date: 06 Mar 2001 05:51:40 -0700

well said.






Take care,
Buck Conner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://pages.about.com/conner1/
http://pages.about.com/buckconner/
"Rival the best - Surpass the rest".
___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com

---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Buck Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mt. Lions Date: 06 Mar 2001 05:47:15 -0700
agreed people are the problem, but when they have
moved into a farming area that has been in
operation since right after the Civil War and
start killing livestock, domestic farm animals,
etc., then theres no choose.







Take care,
Buck Conner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://pages.about.com/conner1/
http://pages.about.com/buckconner/
"Rival the best - Surpass the rest".
___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com

---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Hafen's MM & the Fur Trade series for sale Date: 06 Mar 2001 01:06:06 EST This Sunday evening, March 11, the Pikes Peak Library Dist. will be having a fund-raiser auction and one of the items up for bid is the complete set of mint-condition Hafen ed., MOUNTAIN MEN & THE FUR TRADE (reportedly unstamped, unmarked and pristine in every way.) I would buy these myself, but I just don't have the money right now. Opening bid is set at $500 (a steal at the going rate) anybody wanting to bid on these ought to contact Colo. Sprgs book dealer Doug Clausen at 719-471-5884. I would just prefer seeing these books go to a private fur-trade scholar rather than seeing them snapped up by a Denver book dealer. Good luck, John R. Sweet ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 05 Mar 2001 22:42:02 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A5C5.7ED67C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt Just using the 18C spelling....Only one I know. Thje deer here are corn fed, better'n beef.. Not strong at all. D ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A5C5.7ED67C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Walt
Just using the 18C spelling....Only one = I=20 know.
Thje deer here are corn fed, better'n = beef.. Not=20 strong at all.
D
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A5C5.7ED67C60-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Date: 09 Mar 2001 15:47:21 EST --part1_97.124aad00.27da9b59_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I understand He is in the hospital in Billings. Mark "Roadkill" Loader --part1_97.124aad00.27da9b59_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I understand He is in the hospital in Billings.  
Mark "Roadkill" Loader --part1_97.124aad00.27da9b59_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:42:12 -0600 Date: 10 Mar 2001 21:40:58 -0700 test Lanney Ratcliff ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:42:12 -0600 Date: 10 Mar 2001 22:50:01 -0600 I heard you. It's been kinda quiet this weekend. Not a lot going on = I guess. =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Lanney = Ratcliff > Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 10:41 PM > To: History List > Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:42:12 -0600 >=20 >=20 > test > Lanney Ratcliff >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DSJohn2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:42:12 -0600 Date: 10 Mar 2001 23:51:13 EST I heard you also and I agree folks must be out in the woods ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:42:12 -0600 Date: 11 Mar 2001 02:09:58 EST In a message dated 3/10/01 8:52:07 PM, DSJohn2@aol.com writes: << I heard you also and I agree folks must be out in the woods >> Naw..... I think most of us were at the BP/Mt man show in Enumclaw....the place was packed! Managed to pick up a nice beaver and European hare felt hat made by S. Rush, and damn if I don't look good in it!..... I looked all over for Laura Jean and her books, but couldn't find her.....rats. Send me one Laura. I had to leave early to watch my kid's tribe beat up Capt Lahti's tribe and place 3rd in the State basketball tournament. (We lost to Kennewick last year, something Roger has pointed out on occasion).... Anyway, it was good seeing a lot of my AMM brothers and friends there, and for those I missed, I'll track you down in the woods later... Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:42:12 -0600 Date: 11 Mar 2001 08:13:17 -0600 Magpie wrote: ...........Naw..... I think most of us were at the BP/Mt man show in Enumclaw....the place was packed! Managed to pick up a nice beaver and European hare felt hat made by S. Rush, and damn if I don't look good in it!..... I looked all over for Laura Jean and her books, but couldn't find her.....rats. Send me one Laura. Magpie, Laura Jean was there yesterday and will be there today. She called last night and told me she sold 37 copies, which she considered good, especially since she is possibly the only "one item" trader at the show. YMOS Lanney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 11 Mar 2001 09:11:57 -0700 Hello Victoria, From the reference it reads like it is the pemmican of the Canadian fur trade that you are referring to. Commercial pemmician and family pemmican were apparently 2 different things. My Crow friends still make pemmican each year for their traditional meals of pemmican, dried meat and berries for desert. All clean good stuff. Not the rawhide hard stuff we have read about in this 2001 pemmican thread from various sources. I usually get a chance to participate in a traditional meal once a year at the reenactment on June 25 on the banks of the Little Big Horn at the Real Bird Ranch. Try some of the good pemmician, you might like it! Walt > ("Empire of the Bay-An Illustrated History of the > Hudson's Bay Company" by Peter C. Newman, > 1989, page 121) >" I had always looked forward to my first bite > of pemmican, but after reading this............ > Perhaps it is an aquired taste. " > Victoria ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:42:12 -0600 Date: 11 Mar 2001 11:30:53 EST In a message dated 3/11/01 6:12:48 AM, amm1585@hyperusa.com writes: << especially since she is possibly the only "one item" trader at the show. >> Haaaaaa...... that's probably why I couldn't find her! There was so much plunder there I was blinded by it all. If I don't see her sooner, I'm sure she'll pack all those books into Frog (about a mile or two) and I'll catch her there..... Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 11 Mar 2001 11:40:21 -0800 Walt Foster wrote: > My Crow friends still make pemmican each year for their traditional meals of pemmican, dried meat and berries for desert. All clean good stuff. >Try some of the good pemmician, you might like it! Walt, How hard would it be to talk you into sending some of that good Pemmican back East to me? Purty Please Possum ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:42:12 -0600 Date: 11 Mar 2001 15:01:07 -0800 > Naw..... I think most of us were at the BP/Mt man show in Enumclaw....the > place was packed! Managed to pick up a nice beaver and European hare felt hat > made by S. Rush, and damn if I don't look good in it!..... Magpie, I'd probably look better in it than you do. I missed seeing the hats but saw Ms. Laura Jean so I got the better of the deal. Got a book too! My wife has it practically read through on our trip home today. It was a great show with lots of Brothers at hand from all over. Almost more than come to the Nationals. So, Magpie, are you coming to Bonnie Lake and up on the Palouse? Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:42:12 -0600 Date: 11 Mar 2001 18:20:51 -0500 So Capt.. Did you give her that kiss I sent wi' you , Lad?? D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:42:12 -0600 Date: 11 Mar 2001 15:31:38 -0800 > So Capt.. > Did you give her that kiss I sent wi' you , Lad?? > D > D. You bet I did! I think she liked it too. I said, as I hugged her close, "This is from me and this is from Dennis". I probably did it better than you could have anyway. I'll fill in for you any time, right after I do for me. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 3:20 PM > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "no" Subject: MtMan-List: powder horn Date: 11 Mar 2001 18:29:09 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0AA59.29794AC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To the List , E-Bay has a 1763 ENGRAVED POWDER ANDOVER,ME.NRHORN- If any one wants to take a look, http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1415266751 =20 Frank Novotny ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0AA59.29794AC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To  the List , E-Bay has a 1763 ENGRAVED POWDER = ANDOVER,ME.NRHORN-
If any one wants to take a look,
  http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1415= 266751
   
Frank Novotny
------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0AA59.29794AC0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Douglas Hepner" Subject: MtMan-List: Places to see Date: 11 Mar 2001 18:27:29 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0AA58.EE695BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, I am taking my wife and her parents to Cleveland Ohio so that they = can show us where their family is from. Anyway, the route we are going = is Interstate 30 at Hot Springs Arkansas to Little Rock then Interstate = 40 to Memphis Tennesee then Hwy 51 to Fulton Then Wendall H. Ford = Parkway to Elizabethtown Kentucky Then Interstate 65 to Louisville = Kentucky and then finally Interstate 71 to Cleveland. My question is are = there any fur trade or pre-1840 must sees? I remain YMOS, Watchum Possum ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0AA58.EE695BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello all,
    I am = taking my=20 wife and her parents to Cleveland Ohio so that they can show us where = their=20 family is from. Anyway, the route we are going is Interstate 30 at Hot = Springs=20 Arkansas to Little Rock then Interstate 40 to Memphis Tennesee then Hwy = 51 to=20 Fulton Then Wendall H. Ford Parkway to Elizabethtown Kentucky Then = Interstate 65=20 to Louisville Kentucky and then finally Interstate 71 to Cleveland. My = question=20 is are there any fur trade or pre-1840 must sees?
 
I remain = YMOS,
Watchum=20 Possum
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0AA58.EE695BA0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 11 Mar 2001 22:35:51 -0600 On Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:11:57 -0700 "Walt Foster" writes: > Hello Victoria, > > From the reference it reads like it is the pemmican of > the Canadian fur trade that you are referring to. > Commercial pemmician and family pemmican > were apparently 2 different things..... Try some of the good > pemmician, you might like it! > > Walt > Hi Walt, You and Barney have persuaded me not to be squeamish about trying pemmican. If I don't like it, I can always give it to my fur child. She'll eat anything! BTW, I'm reading "French Fur Traders and Voyageurs in the American West" edited by LeRoy R. Hafen. Janet Lecompte wrote an intriguing introduction. She has a definite difference of opinion with a few parts of Robert Glass Cleland's book! ("This Reckless Breed of Men:The Trappers and Fur Traders of the Southwest") Thanks for referring to Hafen's book in a post you wrote to Ole awhile back. It's interesting and was worth the effort in tracking it down. Victoria ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ssturtle1199@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Places to see Date: 11 Mar 2001 23:50:45 EST Might want to stop at Dixie Gun Works in Union City, Tn. Only other forts would be Civil War stuff, and the West Tn. CW History is not that impressive. Till trails cross Turtle ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Places to see Date: 12 Mar 2001 00:36:18 EST Dullhawk, Don't know if your route can be varied slightly, or maybe on the return leg, but NE of Tulsa, not far off I40 is the Davis Gun Museum in Claremore, OK. IMO, it's a must-see. Lots of originals; from guns and musical instruments to beer steins. Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: .54 cal ball size Date: 12 Mar 2001 08:21:50 -0600 Thanks Frank for the detailed description on "test fitting" round balls. I am going to try that. To hawknest, thanks for the offer. I will post again later if I need an assortment of round balls. I have a .45 on order and that is the gun I want to work up a load for. The .54 is my old flintlock but it isn't a "good quality" gun, so I am not worried about it being accurate. If I like the .45, I will sell the .54 and let the buyer work out his (her) own loads. Thanks all for the advice. Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:42:12 -0600 Date: 12 Mar 2001 10:59:15 -0500 Thanks Roger, but from the sounds of it, you had waaaay too much fun in my behest.> I will do me own huggin' from now on! D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Brandl Subject: MtMan-List: lookin for tipi Date: 12 Mar 2001 22:12:02 -0700 Looking for a 14 ft tipi, cover, liner, thanks joe -- Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Iambrainey@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: lookin for tipi Date: 12 Mar 2001 12:24:51 EST --part1_a7.c735176.27de6063_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try strongdefender@juno.com He has a 16' with the works. Ben --part1_a7.c735176.27de6063_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try strongdefender@juno.com

He has a 16' with the works.

Ben --part1_a7.c735176.27de6063_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:42:12 -0600 Date: 12 Mar 2001 10:22:01 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 7:59 AM > Thanks Roger, but from the sounds of it, you had waaaay too much fun in my > behest.> I will do me own huggin' from now on! Dennis, I kinda enjoyed the assignment. But you got to be there to do your own. If your not, I will assume you would want me to cover for you which, as a Brother, I will. My wife came down with a cold on the way over to the show and by Sunday was in no shape to take a turn driving back. I gave her Ms. Laura Jean's book to read. She devoured it. Couldn't put it down. Well, she did set it aside on one particularly winding stretch of road down through the Ellensburg Canyon. The motion while looking down was making her nauseous. Finally handed it to me last night just before bed saying she had finished. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ethan Sudman" Subject: MtMan-List: Digest Date: 12 Mar 2001 16:25:44 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C0AB11.1652E920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everyone. I will be switching to the digest... easier to keep up with... I will still be able to send to the list, right? Thanks, Ethan Sudman (ethansudman@home.com) ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C0AB11.1652E920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello everyone.
 
I will be switching to the digest... = easier to keep=20 up with...
 
I will still be able to send to the = list,=20 right?

Thanks,
Ethan Sudman (ethansudman@home.com) ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C0AB11.1652E920-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Date: 09 Mar 2001 15:47:21 EST --part1_97.124aad00.27da9b59_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I understand He is in the hospital in Billings. Mark "Roadkill" Loader --part1_97.124aad00.27da9b59_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I understand He is in the hospital in Billings.  
Mark "Roadkill" Loader --part1_97.124aad00.27da9b59_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 12 Mar 2001 21:56:43 EST --part1_f9.809dffc.27dee66b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Watched Jeff Hengesbaugh & Wes Housier's video Dress and Equipage of the Mountain Men 1820-1840. They say mountain men wore under ware and then show Jeff and another person in red long john under ware. Does anyone know when union suits were first made? Stay out of the Rut Roadkill --part1_f9.809dffc.27dee66b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Watched Jeff Hengesbaugh & Wes Housier's video Dress and Equipage of the
Mountain Men 1820-1840. They say mountain men wore under ware and then show
Jeff and another person in red long john under ware. Does anyone know when
union suits were first made?  
Stay out of the Rut
Roadkill
--part1_f9.809dffc.27dee66b_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 12 Mar 2001 22:04:53 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0AB40.7759BBC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roadkill I spent about 15 minutes at Google.com (searching for "long johns") and = found several bits if information: Lanney Ratcliff Check this for more information than you might want to read: http://www.vintageskivvies.com/pages/archives.html Check this site for one man's supposedly educated opinion: http://www.word-detective.com/101800.html Noah Webster's 1828 make this reference: Drawers 1. One who draws or pulls; one who takes water from a well; one who = draws liquors from a cask. 2. That which draws or attracts, or has the power of attraction. 3. He who draws a bill of exchange or an order for the payment of money. 4. A sliding box in a case or table, which is drawn at pleasure. 5. Drawers, in the plural, a close under garment worn on the lower = limbs. Dean Rudy wrote this in 1996: Dean Rudy (drudy@montek.com) Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:43:24 -0700=20 a.. Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]=20 b.. Next message: Trkoenig@aol.com: "fringe"=20 c.. Previous message: Darilek@aol.com: "Re: Fringes"=20 In a recent posting, Terry Koenig wrote >Seems like some article in the T&L said something to the effect that >long johns weren't period - can't recall exactly what it said or what >issue it was in. Here's some info on that subject I could pass on - In the Fort Hall Account Books (I've got to get these scanned in and on-line one of these days) I've found a number of references to "woolen drawers" being sold there in the 1834-37 period. One of the buyers was our old friend Osborne Russell! My interpretation of this is that they were in fact available in the mountains and were actually used by ordinary trappers. I would guess the style is that of breeches reaching just below the knee. A company named Past Patterns sells a pattern for drawers that is supposedly researched for that period, so that may well be the style worn by Russell and the trappers based at Fort Hall. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0AB40.7759BBC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Roadkill
I spent about 15 minutes at Google.com (searching = for "long=20 johns") and found several bits if information:
Lanney Ratcliff
 
Check this for more information than you might want = to=20 read:
http://www.vi= ntageskivvies.com/pages/archives.html
 
Check this site for one man's supposedly educated=20 opinion:
http://www.word-detect= ive.com/101800.html
 
Noah Webster's 1828 make this = reference:
Drawers
1. One who draws or pulls; one who takes water from = a well;=20 one who draws liquors from a cask.
2. That which draws or attracts, = or has=20 the power of attraction.
3. He who draws a bill of exchange or an = order for=20 the payment of money.
4. A sliding box in a case or table, which is = drawn at=20 pleasure.
5. Drawers, in the plural, a close under garment worn on = the lower=20 limbs.
 
Dean Rudy wrote this in 1996:
 
Dean Rudy (drudy@montek.com)
Thu, 22 = Feb 1996=20 09:43:24 -0700=20

  • Messages sorted by: [ = date=20 ][ = thread ][ = subject=20 ][ = author ]
  • Next message: Trkoenig= @aol.com:=20 "fringe"=20
  • Previous message: Darilek@= aol.com:=20 "Re: Fringes"
In a=20 recent posting, Terry Koenig wrote
>Seems like some article in = the=20 T&L said something to the effect that
>long johns = weren't=20 period - can't recall exactly what it said or what
>issue = it was=20 in.
Here's some info on that subject I could pass on - = In the Fort=20 Hall
Account Books (I've got to get these scanned in and on-line one=20 of
these days) I've found a number of references to "woolen = drawers"
being=20 sold there in the 1834-37 period. One of the buyers was our = old
friend=20 Osborne Russell! My interpretation of this is that they were in
fact=20 available in the mountains and were actually used by = ordinary
trappers. I=20 would guess the style is that of breeches reaching just
below the = knee. A=20 company named Past Patterns sells a pattern for
drawers that is = supposedly=20 researched for that period, so that may well
be the style worn by = Russell and=20 the trappers based at Fort Hall.
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0AB40.7759BBC0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 12 Mar 2001 23:58:22 EST --part1_f.11197a90.27df02ee_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Lanney I will look for the drawers pattern by past patterns. You als answered the question hand sew or machine sew. Thanks agin Mark "Roadkill" Loader --part1_f.11197a90.27df02ee_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Lanney I will look for the drawers pattern by past patterns.  You als
answered the question hand sew or machine sew.
Thanks agin Mark "Roadkill" Loader --part1_f.11197a90.27df02ee_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 13 Mar 2001 00:04:58 EST In a message dated 3/12/1 09:04:20 PM, amm1585@hyperusa.com writes: <> Perhaps some of you are familiar with Alfred Jacob Miller's painting titled: "The Trapper's Bride". Actually, he painted this same scene several times almost identical but - not quite. In one of ther versions the trapper is extending his arm towards the shy bride and you can see a split in the seam of his tunic(? for want of a better description) and throught he opening is what appears to be red underware. Now it may be he has a red shirt as an undergarment, but Miller painted no one else with a red shirt. You may look at several versions of the painting before you seen the one with the "split seam". Curious. Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 12 Mar 2001 23:18:39 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0AB4A.C5416220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roadkill I don't know if long johns are period or not.....I doubt it......but I = don't wear them. What I failed to include in my post is a description = of my own drawers.(....the first person who comments about their size = might wind up on my bad side.) They are essentially draw-string, knee = length muslin pants with no fly at all...and one identical pair of = Canton Flannel.....light canvas on one side of the fabric and cotton = flannel on the other. Don't have any wool, but would in a heartbeat if = I camped in really cold weather. YMOS Lanney ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0AB4A.C5416220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Roadkill
I don't know if long johns are period or not.....I = doubt=20 it......but I don't wear them.  What I failed to include in my post = is a=20 description of my own drawers.(....the first person who comments about = their=20 size might wind up on my bad side.)  They are essentially = draw-string, knee=20 length muslin pants with no fly at all...and one identical pair of = Canton=20 Flannel.....light canvas on one side of the fabric and cotton flannel on = the=20 other.  Don't have any wool, but would in a heartbeat if I camped = in really=20 cold weather.
YMOS
Lanney
------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0AB4A.C5416220-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charlie Webb Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Pennsylvania Rifle Date: 06 Mar 2001 10:26:54 -0700 > Wondering if any of you folks have any first-hand knowledge of > Predersoli's work. Hi, The early Pedersoli guns had some lock problems and were a bit dificult to get parts for. The guns shot very well and were fairly well finished. (Metal to wood.) The locks they are producing today have the tumbler connected to the mainspring via a stirup which is very quick. Is one of the best sparking locks available off the rack. I have not seen a newer Pedersoli fail at the range, nor do they require the maintainence that the older ones required. Respectfully, C Webb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Date: 13 Mar 2001 10:46:48 -0700 >"Walt Foster" wrote: > > From the reference it reads like it is the pemmican of the Canadian fur >trade that you are referring to. Commercial pemmician and family pemmican >were apparently 2 different things. There were two grades of pemmican, because the HBC's George Simpson requested "fine soft berry pemmican" for his personal use when he was at Ft. Wedderburne in the early 1820's. However, this was the exception rather than the rule. In the Canadian fur trade before 1821, there were two main ways to get pemmican: trade for pemmican or its ingredients (tallow, dried meat, beat meat, berries) from the Natives, or have the fur post's country wives make pemmican, which was one of their many responsibilities. I think most posts had some of each--traded & home-made. As for the gunk mentioned in Victoria's quote, I think it's quite likely that most of the pemmican used was like that. Today, pemmican is made by people who have entrenched habits of cleanliness and hygiene that didn't really exist anywhere in the fur trade, and yet many fur traders were shocked & disgusted by the filthy conditions of Native kitchens & cookery. No doubt some of this was stereotyping, i.e. judging everyone in a group by the worst example you can find (e.g. the cook who dropped her meat on the ground and then just threw it into the cooking pot without even trying to clean off the dirt). Nevertheless, we should remember that pemmican was prepared outdoors from start to finish, and even the most careful supervision isn't going to keep the pemmican completely pure-- broken bits of pounding-stones, blades of grass, and, yes, even dog hairs and hairs from the cook were bound to creep in! (My own hair is quite long; I wear it braided or ponytailed most of the time, but the darn stuff still sometimes finds its way into my cooking! Yech! And most of my cooking is in a kitchen, not outdoors over an open fire with dogs running loose.) A good pemmican-maker would keep the gunk to a minimum, but I doubt it was ever entirely absent. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Buck Conner Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 13 Mar 2001 22:32:01 -0500 (EST) Roadkill I spent about 15 minutes at Google.com (searching for "long johns") and found several bits if information: Lanney Ratcliff Check this for more information than you might want to read: http://www.vintageskivvies.com/pages/archives.html Check this site for one man's supposedly educated opinion: http://www.word-detective.com/101800.html Noah Webster's 1828 make this reference: Drawers 5. Drawers, in the plural, a close under garment worn on the lower limbs. Dean Rudy wrote this in 1996: I've found a number of references to "woolen drawers" being sold there in the 1834-37 period. One of the buyers was our old friend Osborne Russell! My interpretation of this is that they were in fact available in the mountains and were actually used by ordinary trappers. I would guess the style is that of breeches reaching just below the knee. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have read that the "Union Suit" as we know it today wasn't available until the western movement and very popular 10 years after the fur trade later years. The bloomers, drawers or breeches where from the early F&I period (or earlier) through the fur trade as stated; saw a sketch in an early Phila. Gazzett advertisement (late 1700's) showing breeches with a long tailed shirt that was split up the sides (about to mid thigh) to allow it to be pulled through the crouch to make an air tight arrangement like the later union suit in keeping out drafts. The ad was talking about a new flannel fabric just arriving from the finest mills in England. Hope this helps Roadkill. Thanks for your time, take care. Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ "Rival the best - Surpass the rest". ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Buck Conner Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 13 Mar 2001 22:39:29 -0500 (EST) Roadkill I don't know if long johns are period or not.....I doubt it......but I don't wear them. What I failed to include in my post is a description of my own drawers.(....the first person who comments about their size might wind up on my bad side.) They are essentially draw-string, knee length muslin pants with no fly at all...and one identical pair of Canton Flannel.....light canvas on one side of the fabric and cotton flannel on the other. Don't have any wool, but would in a heartbeat if I camped in really cold weather. YMOS Lanney ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For those that don't know what Lanney means about size, lets just say he makes Rosey Greer look average, that's real close, if you don't know who Rosey is try the WWF star "Big Show". That was being nice Lanney, but just how much material did that take ! Thanks for your time, take care. Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ "Rival the best - Surpass the rest". ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clay J. Landry" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 13 Mar 2001 21:36:49 -0700 Both wool and cotton drawers were available and used in the mountains-"Canton Flannel" which was cotton, as well as wool and green "floor cloth" were all purchased and used by the trappers of Fort Hall in the 1830's. The AMFC records show the famous brigade leader Andrew Dripps purchasing "2 pairs white flannel Drawers" in 1833. For more detailed information on this topic I would refer you to page 29 of the Book of Buckskinning VII. Just about all of the trade ledgers, Rendezvous inventory lists and fur trade posts records indicate that "Red flannel" shirts were very popular among the mountaineers. In 1834 Fort union had 200 in inventory. Clay Landry XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 10:04 PM > > In a message dated 3/12/1 09:04:20 PM, amm1585@hyperusa.com writes: > > < > being sold there in the 1834-37 period. One of the buyers was our old > > friend Osborne Russell! My interpretation of this is that they were in > > fact available in the mountains and were actually used by ordinary > > trappers. >> > > Perhaps some of you are familiar with Alfred Jacob Miller's painting titled: > "The Trapper's Bride". Actually, he painted this same scene several times > almost identical but - not quite. In one of ther versions the trapper is > extending his arm towards the shy bride and you can see a split in the seam > of his tunic(? for want of a better description) and throught he opening is > what appears to be red underware. Now it may be he has a red shirt as an > undergarment, but Miller painted no one else with a red shirt. You may look > at several versions of the painting before you seen the one with the "split > seam". Curious. > > Richard James > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 13 Mar 2001 21:41:04 -0700 Great Jehosophat! Is that ole Clay Laundry back in these parts? Good to hear from you hoss! "Teton" Todd D. Glover http://homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Hall Subject: MtMan-List: Welcome Back Date: 13 Mar 2001 23:51:32 -0700 At 09:41 PM 03/13/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Great Jehosophat! Is that ole Clay Laundry back in these parts? Good to >hear from you hoss! > >"Teton" Todd D. Glover Hey Clay!, I second Todd's welcome back! Hope you're wintering well up there on the Yellowstone! YMOS from Fort Hall, Allen ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 14 Mar 2001 06:11:50 -0600 Clay Landry wrote: Both wool and cotton drawers were available and used in the mountains-"Canton Flannel" which was cotton, Canton flannel is available from Gohn Brothers in Middlebury, Indiana. They have an 800 number which I don't have handy. Call information at1 800 555 1212 and ask. Be sure to request their catalog......Gohn Bros specializes in the Amish trade and have a treasurehouse of goods, including all manner of hard to find fabrics and ready to wear clothes that haven't changed their style for generations. Lanney Ratcliff ps: Welcome back Clay. We all just got smarter with you around. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 14 Mar 2001 15:12:10 -0800 Clay Landry wrote: Both wool and cotton drawers were available and used in the mountains-"Canton Flannel" which was cotton, Lanney Ratcliff ps: Welcome back Clay. We all just got smarter with you around. Same here Clay ! Great to have you back with us ! Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 14 Mar 2001 19:09:50 EST landry@mcn.net writes: << "Red flannel" shirts were very popular among the mountaineers. >> Clay, I understand that Canton Flannel was cotton. However, I thought that flannel usually referred to wool in earlier times. At what time period would the wool flannel have been replaced by the cotton and when did Canton Flannel start to become more commonly available in the West? I'm never sure when I read "flannel" in period documents, whether it is cotton or wool. Consequently, I have been reluctant to use cotton flannel. Thanks. YMOS Ghosting Wolf AKA Gene Hickman ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 14 Mar 2001 20:19:38 EST --part1_3c.8ca3391.27e172aa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Lanney I tried to contact Gohn Brothers thru information and could not get it. Must be something wrong or changed with ether Gohn Brothers or Middlebury, Indiana. Any one know how to contact them? Thanks Roadkill --part1_3c.8ca3391.27e172aa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Lanney
I tried to contact Gohn Brothers thru information and could not get it.
Must be something wrong or changed with ether Gohn Brothers or Middlebury,
Indiana.  Any one know how to contact them?       
Thanks Roadkill --part1_3c.8ca3391.27e172aa_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Buck Conner Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 14 Mar 2001 20:45:08 -0500 (EST) Both wool and cotton drawers were available and used in the mountains-"Canton Flannel" which was cotton, as well as wool and green "floor cloth" were all purchased and used by the trappers of Fort Hall in the 1830's. The AMFC records show the famous brigade leader Andrew Dripps purchasing "2 pairs white flannel Drawers" in 1833. For more detailed information on this topic I would refer you to page 29 of the Book of Buckskinning VII. Just about all of the trade ledgers, Rendezvous inventory lists and fur trade posts records indicate that "Red flannel" shirts were very popular among the mountaineers. In 1834 Fort union had 200 in inventory. Clay Landry ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hey Clay, How have you wintered, you have been missed, thank you for adding to this subject, nice to hear from you. FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 14 Mar 2001 20:11:44 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0ACC2.FDA425C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roadkill, Got it!!! Gohn Bros. 105 South Main Box 1110 Middlebury, Indiana 46540-1110 219-825-2400 800-595-0031=20 If you have a particular item in mind contact me and I will send you a = scanned image of the appropriate page. That way you can call with an = order and make sense doing it. Nowhere in their catalog do they mention = accepting credit cards. Lanney ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 7:19 PM Thanks Lanney=20 I tried to contact Gohn Brothers thru information and could not get it.=20 Must be something wrong or changed with ether Gohn Brothers or = Middlebury,=20 Indiana. Any one know how to contact them? =20 Thanks Roadkill=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0ACC2.FDA425C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Roadkill,
Got it!!!
Gohn Bros.
105 South Main
Box 1110
Middlebury, Indiana  46540-1110
219-825-2400
800-595-0031
 
If you have a particular item in mind contact me and = I will=20 send you a scanned image of the appropriate page. That way you can call = with an=20 order and make sense doing it.  Nowhere in their catalog do they = mention=20 accepting credit cards.
Lanney
----- Original Message -----=20
From: MarkLoader@aol.com=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com ; = KSMITH@hach.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear

Thanks Lanney =
I tried=20 to contact Gohn Brothers thru information and could not get it.
Must = be=20 something wrong or changed with ether Gohn Brothers or Middlebury, =
Indiana.=20  Any one know how to contact them? =       =20
Thanks Roadkill ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0ACC2.FDA425C0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clay J. Landry" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 14 Mar 2001 19:30:47 -0700 It most cases the use of the word "flannel" by itself in the records and ledgers of the Fur companys' refers to a wool flannel. Canton flannel shows up in the American Fur Company ledgers in the late 1820's. The early descrptions of flannel made from wool call it "soft and spongy". Likewise a Canton flannel made from cotton is described as a "soft fabric with a long nap"-the long nap means that it was fuzzy. Most of the original records that I have studied will differentiate the kinds of flannels by using a descriptive word such as "cotton or Canton". Another problem crops up, however, when the list or inventory gives only the color such as "red flannel, yellow flannel, blue flannel etc." in these cases my "best guess" would be that they are referring to a wool flannel because I have seen lists that referred to colored Canton or cotton flannel. In the case of the popular red flannel shirts I have seen both a red cotton flannel and red flannel (wool) on fur trade inventories-so take your pick is you want to make one. Clay Landry ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:09 PM > landry@mcn.net writes: > > << "Red flannel" shirts were very popular among the mountaineers. >> > > Clay, > > I understand that Canton Flannel was cotton. However, I thought that flannel > usually referred to wool in earlier times. At what time period would the wool > flannel have been replaced by the cotton and when did Canton Flannel start to > become more commonly available in the West? I'm never sure when I read > "flannel" in period documents, whether it is cotton or wool. Consequently, I > have been reluctant to use cotton flannel. Thanks. > > YMOS > Ghosting Wolf AKA Gene Hickman > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: =?UTF-8?Q?Clay=20pipes...?= Date: 14 Mar 2001 21:42:27 EST Speaking of Clay.... I just picked up a neat old red clay pipe inscribed "Bonnaud Marseille=20 84".....all I need is a reed stem and it's a smoker. Does anyone know who=20 Bonnaud is/was? I'm assuming the pipe was made in France, mebbe 1884....or=20 better still, 1784.... I see some boys smoking pipes much like this style= ,=20 at rendezvous. Also know where there is another in just as good=20 shape...reasonable.... Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clay J. Landry" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 14 Mar 2001 19:27:48 -0700 It most cases the use of the word "flannel" by itself in the records and ledgers of the Fur companys' refers to a wool flannel. Canton flannel shows up in the American Fur Company ledgers in the late 1820's. The early descrptions of flannel made from wool call it "soft and spongy". Likewise a Canton flannel made from cotton is described as a "soft fabric with a long nap"-the long nap means that it was fuzzy. Most of the original records that I have studied will differentiate the kinds of flannels by using a descriptive word such as "cotton or Canton". Another problem crops up, however, when the list or inventory gives only the color such as "red flannel, yellow flannel, blue flannel etc." in these cases my "best guess" would be that they are referring to a wool flannel because I have seen lists that referred to colored Canton or cotton flannel. In the case of the popular red flannel shirts I have seen both a red cotton flannel and red flannel (wool) on fur trade inventories-so take your pick is you want to make one. Clay Landry ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:09 PM > landry@mcn.net writes: > > << "Red flannel" shirts were very popular among the mountaineers. >> > > Clay, > > I understand that Canton Flannel was cotton. However, I thought that flannel > usually referred to wool in earlier times. At what time period would the wool > flannel have been replaced by the cotton and when did Canton Flannel start to > become more commonly available in the West? I'm never sure when I read > "flannel" in period documents, whether it is cotton or wool. Consequently, I > have been reluctant to use cotton flannel. Thanks. > > YMOS > Ghosting Wolf AKA Gene Hickman > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clay J. Landry" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 14 Mar 2001 19:29:47 -0700 It most cases the use of the word "flannel" by itself in the records and ledgers of the Fur companys' refers to a wool flannel. Canton flannel shows up in the American Fur Company ledgers in the late 1820's. The early descrptions of flannel made from wool call it "soft and spongy". Likewise a Canton flannel made from cotton is described as a "soft fabric with a long nap"-the long nap means that it was fuzzy. Most of the original records that I have studied will differentiate the kinds of flannels by using a descriptive word such as "cotton or Canton". Another problem crops up, however, when the list or inventory gives only the color such as "red flannel, yellow flannel, blue flannel etc." in these cases my "best guess" would be that they are referring to a wool flannel because I have seen lists that referred to colored Canton or cotton flannel. In the case of the popular red flannel shirts I have seen both a red cotton flannel and red flannel (wool) on fur trade inventories-so take your pick is you want to make one. Clay Landry ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:09 PM > landry@mcn.net writes: > > << "Red flannel" shirts were very popular among the mountaineers. >> > > Clay, > > I understand that Canton Flannel was cotton. However, I thought that flannel > usually referred to wool in earlier times. At what time period would the wool > flannel have been replaced by the cotton and when did Canton Flannel start to > become more commonly available in the West? I'm never sure when I read > "flannel" in period documents, whether it is cotton or wool. Consequently, I > have been reluctant to use cotton flannel. Thanks. > > YMOS > Ghosting Wolf AKA Gene Hickman > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clay pipes... Date: 14 Mar 2001 20:49:36 -0600 Magpie Check this out. Lanney http://www.africantradebeads.com/Product_Index/African_made_Beads_/AM2/AM3/A M4/AM5/Mandinka_Bride_s/African__Powder_glass/Antique_Clay_Pipe/antique_clay _pipe.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Clay pipes... Date: 14 Mar 2001 20:52:51 -0600 There is a problem with the address I listed. Open Google.com and enter a search for "Bonnaud Marseille 84".....including the quote marks. Pretty interesting info. sorry Lanney ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 8:49 PM > Magpie > Check this out. > Lanney > http://www.africantradebeads.com/Product_Index/African_made_Beads_/AM2/AM3/A > M4/AM5/Mandinka_Bride_s/African__Powder_glass/Antique_Clay_Pipe/antique_clay > _pipe.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: =?UTF-8?Q?long=20johns?= Date: 14 Mar 2001 21:52:22 EST Hallo Lanney, I've been looking for some "period correct" long johns and it sounds like=20 those folks in Indiana may have some. I'm more than a little reluctant to us= e=20 that itchy wool on my tender butt, however, cotton ain't quite as warm. Whic= h=20 way to go.....? Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: Clay pipes... Date: 14 Mar 2001 21:57:19 EST In a message dated 3/14/01 6:52:02 PM, amm1585@hyperusa.com writes: << Open Google.com and enter a search for "Bonnaud Marseille 84".....including the quote marks. Pretty interesting info. sorry >> Haaaaaa.... Item ATB398 is the pipe I got! ......hard to sell the other one for a bunch of money now.... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Butch Wright" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 14 Mar 2001 19:36:12 -0800 I'm not AMM, so I hope none of you are offended by the information below - especially if goes against some hardcore beliefs. According to THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WORLD COSTUME, by Doreen Yarwood, published 1978, pages 423-425. "Prior to the 19th century underwear...consisted of a loose shirt, some type of drawers or pants (and/or) stockings...From the late 19th century it became customary to combine two garments in one...For men the undervest and long drawers or pants became one garment...By the first decade of the 20th century men's combinations (union suit in the USA) had a high, round neck, short sleeves, were buttoned down the center front and had pants reaching to the ankles. By the 2nd decade the garment could be sleeveless with a lower neckline and the legs had become shorts...many men...retain(ed) short sleeves and long pants...in combinations until the Second World War." "In the 1880's...Dr. Jaeger, Professor of Physiology at Sturrgart Univ....believed in the efficiency of wearing wool next to the skin and from 1884, woolen underwear was manufactured in Britain under the Jaeger name..." "In the early 19th century...until the 1870's...Underwear...was made from cambric, bastiste, calico and flannel ( doesn't specify if wool or cotton)." I take this to mean there weren't any "longjohns" as we think of them today. As some on the list have said, it appears "drawers" would be very appropriate, probably with a drawstring, and a red flannel shirt would sure fit. Butch > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 14 Mar 2001 22:03:08 -0600 Butch Nobody should be offended by such information, particularly when backed up by research instead of supported only by opinion. When you have information that good, let fly with it and let the naysayers rant if they must. I checked your resource book on Amazon.com and found copies available for about $45.00. I wear a pair of drawstring drawers and a shirt.....sometimes red flannel, sometimes not. Union suits don't fit me anyhow. They can be found big enough to go around me well enough, but they are made for folks shorter than me. I don't trust 'em anyhow. YMOS Lanney Ratcliff Tejas Party, AMM ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clay J. Landry" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Welcome Back Date: 14 Mar 2001 19:25:47 -0700 Allen, Todd, Big Zwey and gang Thanks for the warm welcome. As most of you know there is almost nothing that I enjoy more than palavering about the Rocky Mountain fur trade. I continue to research the material culture and write about the things that I discover-some folks like it and some folks don't-such is life. I presented a paper last fall at the Fort Union Fur Trade Symposium-it will be part of the proceedings that are about to be published. Problem is that in order to keep costs down the editor lady whacked out all of my illustrations and excerpts from the original AMFC ledgers-so if any of you hard core fur trade history types want a copy of the unedited version I'd be happy to email it to you-it is in Word format. Please contact me direct-we don't want to clutter up the list unnecessarily. The paper is a study of the gear and equipment used by the American Fur Company Brigades under Fontenelle and Dripps from 1830 to 1837. You might remember that Warren A. Ferris came west in 1830 with the first of the AMFC trapping ventures. On a personal note-in the fall of 1999 fate smiled upon my wife and I and we were able to relocate to the Powder River country of SE Montana. New job and relocating my ranching operation was about more than we could handle-but things are running smoothly now-life is good and peaceful on the Powder River-I live 30 miles down a gavel road from town and my nearest neighbor is fives miles away. Clay Landry Moorhead, MT XXXXXXXXXXXXXX ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 11:51 PM > At 09:41 PM 03/13/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >Great Jehosophat! Is that ole Clay Laundry back in these parts? Good to > >hear from you hoss! > > > >"Teton" Todd D. Glover > > Hey Clay!, > > I second Todd's welcome back! Hope you're wintering well up there on the > Yellowstone! > > YMOS from Fort Hall, > > Allen > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clay pipes... Date: 14 Mar 2001 22:11:13 -0800 Magpie, I have some reed material if you need one/some. Crawdad is the pipe expert/connoisseur in our group. Actually, he may be interested in the extra one. Help me remember the pipe stem for Bonnie Lake. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 6:42 PM Speaking of Clay.... ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: long johns Date: 14 Mar 2001 22:14:07 -0800 Magpie, Well, if you would wear them only while flying the airlines would be on time more often, at least until you got used to them. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: YMOS Date: 15 Mar 2001 07:27:54 -0600 Ok, I'm just a dumb breed what's been hanging around this camp fer the past winter but be damned if I can figure out what the hell YMOS means???? Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Iambrainey@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: YMOS Date: 15 Mar 2001 08:41:50 EST --part1_7d.124441f7.27e2209e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Your Most Obedient Servant" --part1_7d.124441f7.27e2209e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Your Most Obedient Servant" --part1_7d.124441f7.27e2209e_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: YMOS Date: 15 Mar 2001 09:18:44 EST --part1_f6.8220935.27e22944_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > "Your Most Obedient Servant" Standard closing used (with others) in 1700's letter writing. Along with Your Humble and Obedient Servant (but I've never been accused of being humble) Y.H.O.S. and many more. YMOS C.T. Oakes --part1_f6.8220935.27e22944_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"Your Most Obedient Servant"


Standard closing used (with others) in 1700's letter writing.  Along with
Your Humble and Obedient Servant (but I've never been accused of being
humble) Y.H.O.S. and many more.  

YMOS

C.T. Oakes --part1_f6.8220935.27e22944_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: YMOS Date: 15 Mar 2001 09:58:27 -0500 Y--- your M--- most O--- obedient S--- servant or--- Your Most Obedient Servant-- its a old closure for writing that was used for many years YMOSANT =+= Hawk On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 07:27:54 -0600 "Best, Dianne" writes: > Ok, I'm just a dumb breed what's been hanging around this camp fer > the past > winter but be damned if I can figure out what the hell YMOS > means???? > > Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: palmer@netdor.com (Palmer Schatell) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: YMOS Date: 15 Mar 2001 12:08:48 -0500 At 07:27 AM 15/03/01 -0600, you wrote: >Ok, I'm just a dumb breed what's been hanging around this camp fer the past >winter but be damned if I can figure out what the hell YMOS means???? > >Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) > >It is an acronym for >"Your Most Obedient Servant" which was short for the more format letter >closing: "Your Most Humble and Obedient Servant" These were replaced by "Very truly yours" back in the dark ages when I was in high school. Palmer (3-coupes) Schatell >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Les Chaffin Subject: MtMan-List: Refinish Longrifle Date: 15 Mar 2001 11:35:50 -0700 I have a Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle that I am refinishing so it don't look like a factory gun since I can't afford a custom gun at this time. What's a good method for finishing the stock? Thanks, Les -- ------ Les Chaffin, Twin Falls, Idaho ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Les Chaffin Subject: MtMan-List: hardtack Date: 15 Mar 2001 13:47:47 -0700 Does anyone have a good hardtack recipes? -- ------ Les Chaffin, Twin Falls, Idaho Email: mailto:chaflesl@isu.edu ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TerryTwoBear@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hardtack Date: 15 Mar 2001 16:09:11 EST Yes, randybublitz@earthlink.com TWO BEAR ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hardtack Date: 15 Mar 2001 16:24:15 EST > Does anyone have a good hardtack recipes? Good hardtack is an oxymoron. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Refinish Longrifle Date: 15 Mar 2001 16:33:49 EST --part1_69.1286eb1b.27e28f3d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/15/01 1:37:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, chaflesl@isu.edu writes: > I have a Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle that I am refinishing so it > don't look like a factory gun since I can't afford a custom gun at this > time. What's a good method for finishing the stock? > > Thanks, > Les > Hi Les, I did also have a Traditions and wanted to get rid of the hi polish factory look. I took the slow method over the winter using a scraper and a couple pieces of broken bottle glass (tape the part you are going to hold) to scrape off the original finish. Then I steel wooled it with several different grits to get it smooth. Used a oil based stain and then bees wax rubbed in but not buffed to seal it and it looks much better. I also used dirty cleaning patches with residue from shooting (fouling) to darken the brass. In fact everytime I clean the barrel I rub the dirty patches on the brass to give it a nice dark color. There is probably a proper way to age brass but this works for me and it costs nothing to do, just takes a little time to age in. I also replaced the adjustable sight with a fixed site and blued it to match barrel. Some will say you should strip the bluing off but historically blued barrels were done and are as correct as browned or in the white so I left mine blued. I was told that you can take the stock finish off a lot faster then scraping by using a commercial polyurethane finish remover, but then I would not have had anything to do on the long winter nights. Hope that helps. Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes --part1_69.1286eb1b.27e28f3d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/15/01 1:37:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, chaflesl@isu.edu
writes:


I have a Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle that I am refinishing so it
don't look like a factory gun since I can't afford a custom gun at this
time.  What's a good method for finishing the stock?

Thanks,
Les


Hi Les,

I did also have a Traditions and wanted to get rid of the hi polish factory
look.  I took the slow method over the winter using a scraper and a couple
pieces of broken bottle glass (tape the part you are going to hold) to scrape
off the original finish.  Then I steel wooled it with several different grits
to get it smooth.  Used a oil based stain and then bees wax rubbed in but not
buffed to seal it and it looks much better.  I also used dirty cleaning
patches with residue from shooting (fouling) to darken the brass.  In fact
everytime I clean the barrel I rub the dirty patches on the brass to give it
a nice dark color.  There is probably a proper way to age brass but this
works for me and it costs nothing to do, just takes a little time to age in.  
  

I also replaced the adjustable sight with a fixed site and blued it to match
barrel.  Some will say you should strip the bluing off but historically blued
barrels were done and are as correct as browned or in the white so I left
mine blued.

I was told that you can take the stock finish off a lot faster then scraping
by using a commercial polyurethane finish remover, but then I would not have
had anything to do on the long winter nights.  

Hope that helps.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes --part1_69.1286eb1b.27e28f3d_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: MtMan-List: Period eyeglasses Date: 15 Mar 2001 16:47:26 -0500 Hello the camp, I have one pair of reproduction and one pair of antique eyeglasses that I would like to have perscription lenses put in. I've been to all the major places around here that grind "in house" and they all say they can't do it. They are just the basic round lenses and no special perscription requirements. Does anybody know a place that will do this by mail? Thanks, Tim P.S. My pemmican (per D's recipe) and my portable soup turned out great. Thanks for all the help. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ALAN AVERY" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hardtack Date: 15 Mar 2001 13:46:04 -0800 Sounds like Old Fox is speaking from personal experience! I heartily agree with his opinion regarding hardtack! A body is much better off with a sack of bannock mix and some good jerky! Watch yer topknot, Black Knife -----Original Message----- >> Does anyone have a good hardtack recipes? > >Good hardtack is an oxymoron. > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: MtMan-List: FUR TRADE PISTOLS Date: 15 Mar 2001 16:03:27 -0800 It's documented, that most of the pistols carried by trappers in the Rocky Mountains were of the large 'Horse Pistol' variety, probably smoothbore. But what style was most common ? Were they Queen Anne, Tower, or were they custom built guns ? I can find no hard documentation that says gun makers like J.J. Henry, who supplied N.W. Guns to AFC, also supplied pistols. Were there pistols made that somewhat matched the N.W. Guns ? I know that Mr. Curly G. built pistols to match his N.W. Guns, but was he following documentation, or responding to the market place ? (absolutely no disrespect intended, just raising the question) Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period eyeglasses Date: 15 Mar 2001 17:18:43 EST In a message dated 3/15/1 02:46:57 PM, tjewell@home.com writes: <> Tim: My wife, an optician had mine (antique, rectangular but rounded) done and even included a small bi-focal on the bottom a la Ben Franklin. I make brooms at festivals so need a close-up vision capability, but I also need to see distance when I look up from my work or want to shoot, etc.. If want to pursue this, write me at swzpher @aol.com Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Huber" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period eyeglasses Date: 15 Mar 2001 15:22:49 -0800 Tim, I am amazed that your lazy-butt lens doctor wouldn't put lenses in your reproduction spectacles! Reproduction glasses come with set-screws to allow easy implantation of the lenses...just like all modern glasses. The antique pair are another matter. Those lenses are pinned in and the devil to replace. My ophthalmologist took the work but sent them out. The lenses house he used politely declined any further orders like that. Larry Huber ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 1:47 PM > Hello the camp, > > I have one pair of reproduction and one pair of antique eyeglasses that I > would like to have perscription lenses put in. I've been to all the major > places around here that grind "in house" and they all say they can't do it. > They are just the basic round lenses and no special perscription > requirements. > > Does anybody know a place that will do this by mail? > > Thanks, > Tim > > P.S. My pemmican (per D's recipe) and my portable soup turned out great. > Thanks for all the help. > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period eyeglasses Date: 15 Mar 2001 19:14:48 -0500 I found that they "eye Glass" people will not touch the frames because they are antiques or they do not want to bother with them. Finally found that my "local" little eye glass optician would send them off to be done. You have to be very persistent. It seems very unusual since the style of frames today has been toward the smaller style. Linda Holley Tim Jewell wrote: > Hello the camp, > > I have one pair of reproduction and one pair of antique eyeglasses that I > would like to have perscription lenses put in. I've been to all the major > places around here that grind "in house" and they all say they can't do it. > They are just the basic round lenses and no special perscription > requirements. > > Does anybody know a place that will do this by mail? > > Thanks, > Tim > > P.S. My pemmican (per D's recipe) and my portable soup turned out great. > Thanks for all the help. > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period eyeglasses Date: 15 Mar 2001 19:16:24 -0700 Boy....I'm amazed at that too! I go to Eye-Mart and they loved the reproduction glasses....of course, you had to sign an agreement, but I didn't mind, since they were reproductions! Now, if they were originals...I don't believe I'd be using them for reenacting, but that's just me! Wouldn't want to break the originals! Just my 2 cents. Colleen > Tim, > I am amazed that your lazy-butt lens doctor wouldn't put lenses in your > reproduction spectacles! Reproduction glasses come with set-screws to allow > easy implantation of the lenses...just like all modern glasses. The antique > pair are another matter. Those lenses are pinned in and the devil to > replace. My ophthalmologist took the work but sent them out. The lenses > house he used politely declined any further orders like that. > > Larry Huber > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Jewell" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 1:47 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Period eyeglasses > > > > Hello the camp, > > > > I have one pair of reproduction and one pair of antique eyeglasses that I > > would like to have perscription lenses put in. I've been to all the > major > > places around here that grind "in house" and they all say they can't do > it. > > They are just the basic round lenses and no special perscription > > requirements. > > > > Does anybody know a place that will do this by mail? > > > > Thanks, > > Tim > > > > P.S. My pemmican (per D's recipe) and my portable soup turned out great. > > Thanks for all the help. > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: hardtack Date: 15 Mar 2001 17:0:13 -0800 > Does anyone have a good hardtack recipes? Here's a Hardtack Recipe 3 cups milk (raw milk or buttermilk is best) 2 tablespoons of Sugar (raw or brown sugar is best) 8 cups of flour ( I prefer a 5 cup whole wheat/ 3 cup unbleached mix to my liking) 4 tablespoons of shortening 1 tablespoon of salt ( I prefer hand ground Tahitian sea salt.... Just kidding) Mix this all up. Use your hands like kneading bread dough, this is some tough dough. This is some tough dough. It will stick all over yours hands, keep them floured up. Roll it out about 1/4" thick. Cut it into squares about 3" x3", punch holes in it with a wooden spoon handle (like a soda cracker is punched with holes) Bake it at 400 dgs. for about 35 minutes. Bake it to taste and need. If you want it to keep for a long time, get all the moisture out of it. If you want to eat it, leave some moisture. I leave some moisture in it and store it in a cloth sack. It will keep well unless kept in a sealed container. Hope this helps. hardtack --- Randal Bublitz --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: hardtack Date: 15 Mar 2001 21:23:01 -0600 Les There are lots of good hardtack recipes. However, there ain't no good hardtack......if it's made in the old way. Iron rations at best, which will sustain life but won't make you smile. My $.02 Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:47 PM > Does anyone have a good hardtack recipes? > > -- > ------ > Les Chaffin, > Twin Falls, Idaho > Email: mailto:chaflesl@isu.edu > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wind1838@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: hardtack Date: 15 Mar 2001 23:26:04 EST --part1_36.12fd6157.27e2efdc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lanney: Give the list your special Keepsake Biscuit ingredients. Laura Jean --part1_36.12fd6157.27e2efdc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lanney:

Give the list your special Keepsake Biscuit ingredients.  

Laura Jean --part1_36.12fd6157.27e2efdc_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Metis on the upper Missouri Date: 15 Mar 2001 23:00:13 -0700 Terrence D. Luff In 1984 the Hiverants of today came together to research and preserve the fur and buffalo metis ways and history. at that time some of the metis started to fly the red and blue figure eight flag from the tipis or camps at rondies and pow wows in Montana. also began to in earnest, to research the metis in the fur trade threw family papers and liveries threw Montana, Idaho, western Washington and personal interviews. at this time we also decided to stay out of the politicks of the different metis tribe or groups and just stay with history and preserving the roots of the metis in the beginning, which was the fur trade era. We usually held our group gatherings with in rondies and pow wow, seemed to be convenient for all of us sense we were interest in rondie and pow wow . also rondies now days are alike a metis cart rondie and fit right in to the metis history whether the Buckskinner knows that or not. the metis had a system set up in the 1800 for the brigades. so we not only decided to follow the metis way but seems to fit into the rondie things after all the whole metis camps was setup for such a camp and also was proven on the field of fur industry. We that started the historical metis group are now growing older. we need new or young blood and now with the younger metis people not willing to protect and take part in this metis history, we now are willing to accept the metis spirit into the group. if you only have the spirit or you can not get enrolled but you still have the metis spirit running in your blood then welcome. no money or enrolling fee just wills to make and relive the metis roots, gets you in and with a welcome. But remember this is not a club. Our way is a tradition way of the Hiverants metis of the fur trade. dress, food, art, customs ,flag, can be different by metis type tribal you connect with whether it be little shell, turtle mountain, pemmna, red river or one of the many people that the word metis is intermingled with. when you join our camp, wither by invite or self choice, you be come Hiverants metis and must id your self as such so the metis people know that you are of the metis group and that their with people that are with the metis spirit if not the blood or both.(here I have not thought of something to say that would inspire people or proof it is easy, or that we are open as long as they willing to fit in, what you say Walt) Terry, I couldn't agree with you more. I feel extremely lucky to have been a part of the Metis in Montana presentation at the Peter Yegen Jr. Yellowstone County Museum. From the understanding I received that night and the insight gained during our conversations and readings regarding problematic opportunities gathered around here to examine and study. Is a wonderful thing. Others who attended have expressed similar supporting interests. Enough for a beginning to further explore the first of the American Metis through what is now called Montana with the Lewis and Clark Expedition during 1805 - 1806. Charbono who saw both the Missouri and the Yellowstone Rivers. They too see this in mutual interests for history's sake and beyond. I will present your pleading before the Peter Yegen Jr. Yellowstone County Museum for consideration to include with 2001 plans and planning. I had already written him from a different perspective. I do think your experience is critical and feel the need to get your message before him and his to see if a line of endeavor can be extended in this direction with the field resources we have in hand. Sincerely, And best regards for your health. Walt Foster Reference: French Fur Traders and VOYAGEURS in the American West. LeRoy R. Hafen. 1993.... ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Sega Subject: MtMan-List: Orthotics in moccasins Date: 16 Mar 2001 15:58:14 -0800 (PST) Has anyone on the list any experience with wearing orthotics in their moccasins? In my winter mocs it is no problem with all the padding and wool allowing for a great fit, and the leather is thicker as well. I havent tried them in side seams or pucker toes, as the orthotics are hard plastic and wear through thin leather easily. I wan't to use historically correct mocs for WFT era. I am just trying to get the jump on possible foot problems and pain during treks. Thank you Chris Sega __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Orthotics in moccasins Date: 16 Mar 2001 17:40:15 -0800 Chris, I have used the inserts from good running shoes in thin summer mocs, works great...no one sees it, but it sure nice on your feet. hardtack > Has anyone on the list any experience with wearing > orthotics in their moccasins? --- Randal Bublitz --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Orthotics in moccasins Date: 16 Mar 2001 17:35:25 -0800 Chris, All I can tell you about this is that years ago a buddy that had to wear Georgia Boots because of his need for arch support just built a pair of mocs around the boots. Feet looked a bit big in summer but what the hell. If you use top grain cow in about 5 oz. they should last a while. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:58 PM > Has anyone on the list any experience with wearing > orthotics in their moccasins? In my winter mocs it is > no problem with all the padding and wool allowing for > a great fit, and the leather is thicker as well. I > havent tried them in side seams or pucker toes, as the > orthotics are hard plastic and wear through thin > leather easily. I wan't to use historically correct > mocs for WFT era. I am just trying to get the jump on > possible foot problems and pain during treks. > > Thank you > > Chris Sega > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "CrookedHand" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Orthotics in moccasins Date: 16 Mar 2001 23:31:58 -0500 Chris.. I have an orthotic in my centerseam mocs..I put in there myself.. bought some BUFFALO leather (really thick) and whittled on it til it looked right, stacked it with leather glue, went to the belt sander and shaped it and voila! I have slid it under the buff insole leather I put inside my mocs..... mine is a 5/8" lift for a leg that was NOT too short till I ogt shot in '92 and they mad my other too long in the rebuilding of it... they were guessing.. a .45 colt commander puts out a real bone smasher ,, especially at 6 feet! Mark "Crooked Hand" Toigo /aka/ Wethlee-Enké http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/8699 http://members.nbci.com/crookedhand/gallery.htm ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Chewing hides Date: 17 Mar 2001 10:18:00 EST --part1_c1.c7e7b82.27e4da28_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Telling people I am brain tanning hides always get the comment. Do I chew on them to get them soft? Any tanner knows moisture is the thing your trying to get rid of while softening saliva would prevent that. But while sewing with sinew in order to keep the sinew soft and moist I find myself chewing the sinew next to the hide. It looks to the observer that I am chewing the hide. May be that's how hide chewing came about. Just A thought Roadkill --part1_c1.c7e7b82.27e4da28_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Telling people I am brain tanning hides always get the comment. Do I chew on
them to get them soft?  Any tanner knows moisture is the thing your trying to
get rid of while softening saliva would prevent that. But while sewing with
sinew in order to keep the sinew soft and moist I find myself chewing the
sinew next to the hide. It looks to the observer that I am chewing the hide.
May be that's how hide chewing came about.
Just A thought
Roadkill
--part1_c1.c7e7b82.27e4da28_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Long under wear Date: 17 Mar 2001 20:14:53 EST In a message dated 3/14/01 7:37:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, bwright012@home.com writes: << ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WORLD COSTUME, by Doreen Yarwood, published 1978, pages 423-425. "Prior to the 19th century underwear... >> I have another secondary source that sez under the date of 1850 "All-in-ones" continue their popularity" -- now, I'd think the term "all-in-one" would refer to what later became "union suit" or "long john". Ther term is pretty descriptive. However ------ These ARE secondary sources & not primary sources like shipping manifests or trade fort inventories. Many secondary sources are somebody's "best guess" at what was being worn & when, usually with very thin documentation that we need to be "historicaly correct". NM ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Huber" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Metis on the upper Missouri Date: 18 Mar 2001 00:11:37 -0800 Gentlemen, For your interest, the Minnesota Historical Society Press is republishing "The New Peoples, Being and Becoming Metis in North American" by historians Jacqueline Peterson & Jennifer Brown. It is basically a series of essays written by participants at the First International Conference on the Metis in North America. I'm sure you're familiar with this work but for those that aren't, it doesn't deal with history or racial mixing but ethnogenesis...which is the study of how new nationalities come into being. The publication will be available in paperback in June for $19.95. Unfortunately it is unavailable for sale in Canada. A clarification: the "figure eight" flag mentioned (carried into the Battle of Seven Oaks) is not a "figure eight" which is depicted vertically but the symbol of eternity and is displayed horizontally. It was said to be created by Metis war leader Cuthbert Grant who was educated in Scotland by his father, a member of the Northwest Company. Larry Huber ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 10:00 PM > Terrence D. Luff > > In 1984 the Hiverants of today came together to research and preserve > the fur and buffalo metis ways and history. at that time some of the metis > started to fly the red and blue figure eight flag from the tipis or camps at > rondies and pow wows in Montana. also began to in earnest, to research the > metis in the fur trade threw family papers and liveries threw Montana, > Idaho, western Washington and personal interviews. at this time we also > decided to stay out of the politicks of the different metis tribe or groups > and just stay with history and preserving the roots of the metis in the > beginning, which was the fur trade era. > > We usually held our group gatherings with in rondies and pow wow, seemed to > be convenient for all of us sense we were interest in rondie and pow wow . > also rondies now days are alike a metis cart rondie and fit right in to the > metis history whether the Buckskinner knows that or not. the metis had a > system set up in the 1800 for the brigades. so we not only decided to follow > the metis way but seems to fit into the rondie things after all the whole > metis camps was setup for such a camp and also was proven on the field of > fur industry. > > We that started the historical metis group are now growing older. we need > new or young blood and now with the younger metis people not willing to > protect and take part in this metis history, we now are willing to accept > the metis spirit into the group. if you only have the spirit or you can not > get enrolled but you still have the metis spirit running in your blood then > welcome. no money or enrolling fee just wills to make and relive the metis > roots, gets you in and with a welcome. > > But remember this is not a club. > > Our way is a tradition way of the Hiverants metis of the fur trade. dress, > food, art, customs ,flag, can be different by metis type tribal you connect > with whether it be little shell, turtle mountain, pemmna, red river or one > of the many people that the word metis is intermingled with. when you join > our camp, wither by invite or self choice, you be come Hiverants metis and > must id your self as such so the metis people know that you are of the metis > group and that their with people that are with the metis spirit if not the > blood or both.(here I have not thought of something to say that would > inspire people or proof it is easy, or that we are open as long as they > willing to fit in, what you say Walt) > > > Terry, I couldn't agree with you more. I feel extremely lucky to have been > a part of the Metis in Montana presentation at the Peter Yegen Jr. > Yellowstone County Museum. From the understanding I received that night and > the insight gained during our conversations and readings regarding > problematic opportunities gathered around here to examine and study. Is a > wonderful thing. Others who attended have expressed similar supporting > interests. Enough for a beginning to further explore the first of the > American Metis through what is now called Montana with the Lewis and Clark > Expedition during 1805 - 1806. Charbono who saw both the Missouri and the > Yellowstone Rivers. They too see this in mutual interests for history's > sake and beyond. > > I will present your pleading before the Peter Yegen Jr. Yellowstone County > Museum for consideration to include with 2001 plans and planning. I had > already written him from a different perspective. I do think your > experience is critical and feel the need to get your message before him and > his to see if a line of endeavor can be extended in this direction with the > field resources we have in hand. > > Sincerely, And best regards for your health. Walt Foster > > > Reference: French Fur Traders and VOYAGEURS in the American West. LeRoy R. > Hafen. 1993.... > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Leroux Subject: MtMan-List: Antoine Leroux Date: 18 Mar 2001 09:07:23 -0500 Would gratefully appreciate bibliographical information on Antoine Leroux who acted as guide for Captain Lorenzo Sitgreaves. Thank you ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 08:55:08 -0600 Date: 18 Mar 2001 07:53:25 -0700 James Click on these sites. They might be of help. Lanney Ratcliff http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=lorenzo+sitgreaves http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=antoine+leroux ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: MtMan-List: Bridger Birthday Camp! Date: 18 Mar 2001 08:48:11 -0700 Hello the Camp! Went up to fort Bridger for the anual Winter camp, Good camp! I should have spent the night but had to get back. Daytime temp was in the low 30's and last night it got down to around 18 deg. Some of the boy's that came up were, Moki, Joe Funk, Allen Hall, Badger, Crazy, Yaro, Rusty Sargent two new pilgrims and others who's names I didn't get. the wind was gusty all day but the fire was warm, lots of Buffalo meat on the fire even some Tongue, the Rum jug got passed and some good stories told. All in all it was a good time and spring will be on us fast. YMOS Ole # 718 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: OFF TO SOUTH EASTERN Date: 18 Mar 2001 13:11:14 -0500 I'm going to be signing off for a couple of weeks. Off to the NMLRA South Eastern Ronny in the morning. If any of you make it, please stop by the Mouse House and say "HI"... We'll be set up on Traders Row next to Bushwoman. We're having a HUGE "garage" sale of uneeded "junque" that no longer A) we no longer have room for in the trailer, or B) that we just plain don't use any more. Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: vnb Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Antoine Leroux Date: 18 Mar 2001 11:10:28 -0700 Leroux had a long career in the southwest. There is a biography on him and it exists in at least, the Flagstaff Public Library, but I couldn't find it in either B&K or Amazon. You can probably get it through interlibrary loan from your local one. I believe he was born in St Louis, moved down to Santa Fe in his early 20s, Married a New Mexican girl, became a naturalized citizen, trapped in Az with Williams, Carson and others in the 30s and 40s, went to Washington and testified on Williams behalf over the Fremont Disaster, guided quite a few military expeditions in the 40s and 50s including Kearny, the Mormon Battalion, Sitgreaves and Ives, prospected for gold in the Prescott, AZ area with Paulino Weaver in the 60s and If memory serves me, died in California at a very old age. That's some of what I can remember about him off the top of my head. While searching the web, I did com across a geneology site that may hold all the answers that you need. http://genforum.genealogy.com/leroux/messages/173.html Back in '93, three of us did an eight day ride, following the 1851 Sitgreaves route through Northern Arizona. We started at Leroux Springs on the South slope of the San Fransisco Peaks and ended up South Of Bill Williams Mountain just East of Hells Canyon. We took copies of the original journals kept by some of the army officers (Leroux apparently didn't keep one although he was literate.) One note I remember referred to Leroux riding a large white mule. Good luck in your search. If you have no luck finding the book, let me know and I'll go down to the library and find out the exact author and title for you. YMHOS Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin AMM #1537 Booshway of the Leroux Brigade of the Powderhorn Clan >===== Original Message From hist_text@lists.xmission.com ===== >Would gratefully appreciate bibliographical information on Antoine >Leroux who acted as guide for Captain Lorenzo Sitgreaves. Thank you > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: unsubscribe Date: 18 Mar 2001 13:39:47 -0500 unsubscribe hist_text admiller@citynet.net ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antoine Leroux Date: 18 Mar 2001 14:46:40 -0600 On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 09:07:23 -0500 James Leroux writes: > Would gratefully appreciate bibliographical information on Antoine > Leroux who acted as guide for Captain Lorenzo Sitgreaves. Thank you Although Antoine Leroux does not have a chapter devoted exclusively to him, he is mentioned on pages 31, 34,191, and 267 in "French Fur Traders and Voyageurs in the American West" edited by LeRoy R. Hafen. On page 34, a footnote to the mention of Leroux reads: Grant Foreman, "Antoine Leroux, New Mexican Guide," New Mexican Historical Review (1941) 368, 378, and Forbes Parkhill, "The Blazed Trail of Antoine Leroux" (Los Angeles, 1965), 66. Victoria ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: vnb Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Antoine Leroux Date: 18 Mar 2001 14:35:44 -0700 >and Forbes Parkhill, "The Blazed >Trail of Antoine Leroux" (Los Angeles, 1965) That's the book! Vic ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antoine Leroux Date: 19 Mar 2001 06:06:52 -0700 --------------CF7E8412D2D483D3BCB292D4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James, "Kit Carson's Autobiography" has a great tale of Antioine with Kit during a raid on a Jicarilla Apache camp in October 1849 to get back a white woman who was kidnapped. (Pages 132-5). the notes at the bottom on the pages give a good overview to him and note him having a good reputation as guide and being only second to Kit Carson. In "Etienne Provost" by Jack Tykal, He is also mentioned as a member of a early party with Pierre Lesperance. (Page 35 note, page 20 for the story) In may of 1814, 18 frenchmen called Phillibert's Compnay trapped the lower front range to the spanish settlements. They were arrested and brought to Taos and kept there. Others who were in the group were: Michael (Francois) La CLair, Joseph Bissonett, Charles Beaubien and maybe Etiene Provost. For family history, you might want to buy a copy of Carson's book, it is easily found in paper back and cheap, about $8.00.A lot of events are pretty sketchy for the early time peroid like with the Provost book, for the 1814 trapping party in the southwest was four years before the Choteau-DeMunn group which is much more famous.And had the similiar fates.If I can help mmore let me know. mike. my web pages James Leroux wrote: > Would gratefully appreciate bibliographical information on Antoine > Leroux who acted as guide for Captain Lorenzo Sitgreaves. Thank you > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --------------CF7E8412D2D483D3BCB292D4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James,
    "Kit Carson's Autobiography" has a great tale of Antioine with
Kit during a raid on a Jicarilla Apache camp in October 1849 to get
back a white woman who was kidnapped. (Pages 132-5). the notes at
the bottom on the pages give a good overview to him and note him having
a good reputation as guide and being only second to Kit Carson.
     In "Etienne Provost" by Jack Tykal, He is also mentioned as a member
of a early party with Pierre Lesperance. (Page 35 note, page 20 for the story)
In may of 1814, 18 frenchmen called Phillibert's Compnay trapped the lower
front range to the spanish settlements. They were arrested and brought to Taos
and kept there. Others who were in the group were: Michael (Francois) La CLair,
Joseph Bissonett, Charles Beaubien and maybe Etiene Provost.
    For family history, you might want to buy a copy of Carson's book, it is easily
found in paper back and cheap, about $8.00.A lot of events are pretty sketchy
for the early time peroid like with the Provost book, for the 1814 trapping party
in the southwest was four years before the Choteau-DeMunn group which is
much more famous.And had the similiar fates.If I can help mmore let me know.
                                                    mike.

 my web pages
 

James Leroux wrote:

Would gratefully appreciate bibliographical information on Antoine
Leroux who acted as guide for Captain Lorenzo Sitgreaves. Thank you

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

--------------CF7E8412D2D483D3BCB292D4-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Orthotics in moccasins Date: 19 Mar 2001 09:08:30 EST --part1_65.1162049f.27e76cde_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/16/01 7:04:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, chrissega1@yahoo.com writes: > them in side seams or pucker toes, as the > orthotics are hard plastic and wear through thin > leather easily. I have extremely high arch and can not wear mocs without an arch support. I cut out an insole of thick leather (shoe sole blanks) put it in the moc with an arch support on top of that and then a light weight leather insole to cover the arch support. As long as the moc is built to accomodate the extra it works well and also keeps my city/desk jockey tender feet from getting stone brused on the trail. But I must admit that in most cases I rely on period correct shoes (Fagawee) and boots. Even easier on my feet and they last so many more miles then mocs. Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes --part1_65.1162049f.27e76cde_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/16/01 7:04:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
chrissega1@yahoo.com writes:


them in side seams or pucker toes, as the
orthotics are hard plastic and wear through thin
leather easily.  


I have extremely high arch and can not wear mocs without an arch support.  I
cut out an insole of thick leather (shoe sole blanks) put it in the moc with
an arch support on top of that and then a light weight leather insole to
cover the arch support.  As long as the moc is built to accomodate the extra
it works well and also keeps my city/desk jockey tender feet from getting
stone brused on the trail.  

But I must admit that in most cases I rely on period correct shoes (Fagawee)
and boots.  Even easier on my feet and they last so many more miles then mocs.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes --part1_65.1162049f.27e76cde_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Metis on the upper Missouri Date: 19 Mar 2001 07:31:33 -0700 "Larry Huber" wrote: >the Minnesota Historical Society Press is >republishing "The New Peoples, Being and Becoming Metis in North American" >by historians Jacqueline Peterson & Jennifer Brown. I would second Larry's hearty endorsement--this is an excellent book for anyone even slightly interested in the subject. The pictures alone are a real eye-opener. Actually, I'd endorse anything associated with Jennifer S.H. Brown, sight unseen--she does excellent work. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Chewing hides Date: 19 Mar 2001 07:28:49 -0700 Roadkill (MarkLoader@aol.com) wrote: >Telling people I am brain tanning hides always get the comment. Do I chew on >them to get them soft? Any tanner knows moisture is the thing your trying to >get rid of while softening saliva would prevent that. I think the origin of this may be some documentaries made about Canadian Eskimoes in the 1950's or 1960's, which a lot of folks probably saw in school. If I recall correctly, they showed an Inuit woman chewing hides to soften them after they'd been wetted or something. The conditions of the North made different demands--I remember an anthropologist's account of her Inuit hostess performing the daily task of taking apart the scientist's mukluks and then sewing them together again, to ensure they remained tightly waterproof, a service which was greatly appreciated. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg Subject: MtMan-List: L&C plant specimens Date: 19 Mar 2001 08:46:29 -0600 Got this out of the paper this weekend Lewis & Clark Plant Specimens go to Idaho Plants plucked from the ground by Meriwether Lewis and William Clark nearly 200 years ago will form the basis of an Idaho exhibit commemorating the Corps of Discovery's trip across the Bitterroot Mountains. The Academy of National Sciences Museum in Philadelphia will lend plant specimens to the Idaho historical Museum which will display them in Idaho in 2005 and 2006 as part of a traveling exhibition says Sen. Michael Crapo, R-Idaho. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hikingonthru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Mtn. Man shirts Date: 19 Mar 2001 10:17:55 -0500 Hello List, I was wondering if anyone could point me to texts or resources for cloth clothing of the mtn. man (since I have not enough brain tan deer hide to make my shirt yet!) Right now, I have a hunting shirt I just made that would do well for F&I period and have to fit it with my persona that I am just coming from the settlements and it is one of several my VERY OLD grandma made me before I left!! (She would have learned to sew that style???) I'd like to make a good shirt correct for the era of 1825-1830 (leggings, too, out of leather, but for now canvas will have to do!) Thanks in advance for your hints! -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sickler, Louis L" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Mtn. Man shirts Date: 19 Mar 2001 08:31:20 -0700 C. The Book of Buckskinning II has a pattern for a good square cut shirt. Using correct materials and techniques, this give you what you want. I just made one for my son and it turned out great. He grows so fast, though, I cheated and used a treadle sewing machine. He won't be wearing it long enough to warrant hand sewing the thing. Good Luck, Lou Sickler > -----Original Message----- > From: hikingonthru@cs.com [SMTP:hikingonthru@cs.com] > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 8:18 AM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: Mtn. Man shirts > > Hello List, > > I was wondering if anyone could point me to texts or resources for cloth > clothing of the mtn. man (since I have not enough brain tan deer hide to > make my shirt yet!) Right now, I have a hunting shirt I just made that > would do well for F&I period and have to fit it with my persona that I am > just coming from the settlements and it is one of several my VERY OLD > grandma made me before I left!! (She would have learned to sew that > style???) I'd like to make a good shirt correct for the era of 1825-1830 > (leggings, too, out of leather, but for now canvas will have to do!) > > Thanks in advance for your hints! > > -C.Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antoine Leroux Date: 19 Mar 2001 21:00:54 EST RE; Leroux - See "The Blazed Trail of Antoine Leroux" by Forbes Parkhill. Published by Westernlore Press, Los Angeles, 1965. Also, a biography of Leroux is inlcuded in Leroy Hafen's "Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the Far West" (see Volume 4) Both items are out of print but are probably available in a university library. You could also try Bookfinder.com if you want to find a copy of your own. Contact me off-line if you have some specific questions as I have both books and may be able to find answers for you. Jim Hardee P.O. box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Metis on the upper Missouri Date: 19 Mar 2001 20:34:15 -0600 > "Larry Huber" wrote: > >the Minnesota Historical Society Press is > >republishing "The New Peoples, Being and Becoming Metis in North > American" by historians Jacqueline Peterson & Jennifer Brown. > > I would second Larry's hearty endorsement--this is an excellent >>book...... > Your humble & obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred I thirdly Larry's endorsement and agree with Angela. Victoria > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: WARREN A. FERRIS 1836 MAP Date: 19 Mar 2001 21:41:47 EST --part1_104.7a70c3.27e81d6b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thought you might like some information received from Jim Wirshborn a RMFT=20 history buff and Mountain States Weather radio broadcasts Thanks Roadkil= l WARREN A. FERRIS 1836 MAP=20 Prof. Fred R. Gowans, PhD and Scott Eldredge, MA of Brigham Young University= ,=20 completed a 12 page brochure and a full color reproduction of the original=20 1836=20 Warren Angus Ferris map of the fur trade and the northwest. Ferris kept a detailed journal of his exploits in the west 1830-1835 and upon his return to the east drafted one of the best maps of the west at the time.=A0=20 Trained as a surveyor and an educated individual Ferris's journal is one of the best journals of the time.=A0=20 He presented his journal and map to Carey, Lea & Blanchard Publishing at the same time Washington Irving presented his manuscript of Capt. Bonneville's Adventures.=20 At the time Irving was such a well-known national author the publisher=20 decided to go with Irving's Bonneville's Adventures and Ferris was left with= =20 his manuscript in hand and map to be all but forgotten for 100 years.=A0=20 Ferris' brother Charles did publish the Ferris narrative during 1843-1844=20 in the Western Literary Messenger (Buffalo, NY) but it was a small=20 circulation=20 and because of a change of editorship the brother was forced to abridge the=20 manuscript or else not finish publishing the journal.=A0 The original journa= l=20 itself was never found so all that we have are the installments from=20 this series. It has been said that if the Ferris map had been published in 1836 maps woul= d=20 have been 50 years ahead of their time but instead cartographers of the=20 West struggled with the geography for many more years before making a map=20 that accurately depicted what Ferris had done in his in 1836. Scott Eldredge said the map "far surpassed any contemporary maps in detail and correctness.=A0 This map provides a unique and unmatched perspect= ive of one of the most captivating episodes in western history.=A0=20 "The Ferris map is the only existing manuscript map drawn by a mountain man during the rendezvous period.=A0 This is significant when one considers the number of field maps, etc. that must have been drawn by mountain men. Of all those, this is the only one known to have survived," Eldredge said. The Ferris map was not published until 1940 (Life in the Rocky Mountains, Paul C. Phillips, editor, Old West Publishing, 1940.=A0 A reprint was made by Old West Publishing in 1983, edited by LeRoy R. Hafen).=A0 The map was printed in a greatly reduced scale and difficult to read. The Mountain Grizzly Publications (Orem, UT) edition is published as a=20 limited edition, numbered print, suitable for framing and includes the=20 12 page write-up on Ferris and his map. This is the first full color, full-size reproduction of the manuscript map drawn by Ferris during the Rocky Mountain rendezvous era.=A0 The original map was 17 x 22 inches and covers the region from Arizona to Montana.=A0=20 This reproduction is printed on a 31-22 inch high quality sheet.=A0 Cost is=20 $24.95 plus shipping. To order contact Fred R. Gowans, 133 E. 1600 N, Orem, UT 84057 or phone 801 226-8741 or Scott Eldredge 801 378-6723 (email scott_eldredge@byu.edu). Dealer inquires are welcome. Wirshborn 06/22/2000 -------------------- --part1_104.7a70c3.27e81d6b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thought you might like so= me information received from Jim Wirshborn a RMFT=20
history buff and Mountain States Weather radio broadcasts   &n= bsp; Thanks Roadkill

WARREN A. FERRIS 1836 MAP=20

Prof. Fred R. Gowans, PhD and Scott Eldredge, MA of Brigham Young Univer= sity,=20
completed a 12 page brochure and a full color reproduction of the origin= al=20
1836=20
Warren Angus Ferris map of the fur trade and the northwest.

Ferris kept a detailed journal of his exploits in the west 1830-1835 and
upon his return to the east drafted one of the best maps of the west at
the time.=A0=20

Trained as a surveyor and an educated individual Ferris's journal is
one of the best journals of the time.=A0=20

He presented his journal and map to Carey, Lea & Blanchard Publishin= g at the
same time Washington Irving presented his manuscript of Capt. Bonneville= 's
Adventures.=20

At the time Irving was such a well-known national author the publisher=20
decided to go with Irving's Bonneville's Adventures and Ferris was left=20= with=20
his manuscript in hand and map to be all but forgotten for 100 years.= =A0=20

Ferris' brother Charles did publish the Ferris narrative during 1843-184= 4=20
in the Western Literary Messenger (Buffalo, NY) but it was a small=20
circulation=20
and because of a change of editorship the brother was forced to abridge=20= the=20
manuscript or else not finish publishing the journal.=A0 The original jo= urnal=20
itself was never found so all that we have are the installments from=20
this series.

It has been said that if the Ferris map had been published in 1836 maps=20= would=20
have been 50 years ahead of their time but instead cartographers of the=20
West struggled with the geography for many more years before making a ma= p=20
that accurately depicted what Ferris had done in his in 1836.

Scott Eldredge said the map "far surpassed any contemporary maps in
detail and correctness.=A0 This map provides a unique and unmatched pers= pective
of one of the most captivating episodes in western history.=A0=20

"The Ferris map is the only existing manuscript map drawn by a mountain
man during the rendezvous period.=A0 This is significant when one consid= ers
the number of field maps, etc. that must have been drawn by mountain men= .
Of all those, this is the only one known to have survived," Eldredge
said.

The Ferris map was not published until 1940 (Life in the Rocky Mountains= ,
Paul C. Phillips, editor, Old West Publishing, 1940.=A0 A reprint was ma= de
by Old West Publishing in 1983, edited by LeRoy R. Hafen).=A0 The map wa= s
printed in a greatly reduced scale and difficult to read.

The Mountain Grizzly Publications (Orem, UT) edition is published as a=20
limited edition, numbered print, suitable for framing and includes the=20
12 page write-up on Ferris and his map.

This is the first full color, full-size reproduction of the manuscript m= ap
drawn by Ferris during the Rocky Mountain rendezvous era.=A0 The origina= l
map was 17 x 22 inches and covers the region from Arizona to Montana.= =A0=20
This reproduction is printed on a 31-22 inch high quality sheet.=A0 Cost= is=20
$24.95
plus shipping.

To order contact Fred R. Gowans, 133 E. 1600 N, Orem, UT 84057 or phone
801 226-8741 or Scott Eldredge 801 378-6723 (email scott_eldredge@byu.ed= u).
Dealer inquires are welcome.

Wirshborn
06/22/2000


--------------------







--part1_104.7a70c3.27e81d6b_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Terrance Luff" Subject: MtMan-List: metis flag Date: 19 Mar 2001 20:13:06 -0700 HO CAMP.COMIN IN: making a red river cart so i have been off the screen. lordy lordy leave the kids alone ,an look ,the word metis apears on my screen. lacking the skill to discribe the flag , i used the word figure eight, from the scot breeding side of the metis it is the serpent devioring it self sign of. the back ground of blue or red has differnt meaning depending what part of country you are from. at ever metis gathering this comes up. here are a few discussings. the blue stands for the french blood, boat people, the easter metis. the red the scot blood, the buffalo hunter, which was flowen by the cart trains. now days the red and white stands for the red blood and white blood that flows in our vains. there were other flags used by different clans of metis. the wolf flag for the war flag for one, but not many know of this flag. the more flags told of just gets people mixed up and just the people interest in metis history should talk of these.hope my poor ways got threw with what i was trying to say. ponyrider metis bilgs,mt elder of haverent metis _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Terrance Luff" Subject: MtMan-List: pemmican,bannock, dry meat metis tradi. foods Date: 19 Mar 2001 20:47:13 -0700 pemmican has been covered good. but must say from pemmican came roobado, stew or soup with pemmican base and any thing else that will fit in to the pot. bullets. a meat ball from pemmican rolled in flour and dropped in boiling water. ground meat is used now days and is doctered up to tast. bannock. came from the scots and used by the eastern and western metis. there are many different ways to cook bannock, all most as many different ways as there are familys of metis. this one has a story. one time was doing a talk at a all nations day. there was a old lady that was putting on a deemo on scot bread. after my talk {in my metis skins} i walk up to her . she kind of smiled and said, you are here to tast my bannock mon a mee ? with my lower jaw beeing so open made it easyer to get a piece in to my mouth. that was the lites and best tasting ever. no doctoring, just bread. just cast iron skilit and fire. jerky,dried meat or as the metis say viande seche. this has been cover by the people of the list, so i will not cover it again. michif is the metis language and is a mix of old type french,some old scot, and different tribe mostly the cree,chip, ojib.and others depending which tribes country. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clay J. Landry" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtn. Man shirts Date: 19 Mar 2001 21:08:14 -0700 You may want to do a little more research before cutting up that good brain tan to make a buckskin shirt-to quote Osborne Russell from his book "Journal of a Trapper"--his (a trapper's) personal dress is a flannel or cotton shirt, if he is fortunate enough to obtain one, if not Antelope skin answers the purpose, a pair of leather breeches with Blanket or smoked Buffalo skin, leggins.." Also if you study the art work of Alfred Jacob Miller you will see that most of the mountaineers that he depicts are dressed in cloth shirts, buckskin pantaloons, and buckskinned hunting shirts. A good study and book about this is Rex Norman's "The 1837 Sketchbook of the Western Fur Trade" -you can get it from Scurlock Publishing-same folks who publish "Muzzleloader Magazine". You may also want to refer to the section on shirts in the Chapter of the Book of Buckskinning VII entitled "Clothing of the Rocky Mountain Trapper, 1820-1840". While it is quite probable that many trappers wore some style of leather or buckskin shirt, the ledgers of the Fur companies and St. Louis merchants also indicate that hundreds of cloth shirts were supplied to the Rocky Mountain trappers both at the Rendezvous and the interior trading posts . Clay Landry Moorhead MT ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 8:17 AM > Hello List, > > I was wondering if anyone could point me to texts or resources for cloth clothing of the mtn. man (since I have not enough brain tan deer hide to make my shirt yet!) Right now, I have a hunting shirt I just made that would do well for F&I period and have to fit it with my persona that I am just coming from the settlements and it is one of several my VERY OLD grandma made me before I left!! (She would have learned to sew that style???) I'd like to make a good shirt correct for the era of 1825-1830 (leggings, too, out of leather, but for now canvas will have to do!) > > Thanks in advance for your hints! > > -C.Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEXASLAZYB@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WARREN A. FERRIS 1836 MAP Date: 19 Mar 2001 23:11:57 EST Was Ferris trained as a surveyor when he wnet to the mountains? I was under the impression that he wasn't a surveyor until about the time he came to Texas around 1840. Thanks. Bluelodge ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WARREN A. FERRIS 1836 MAP Date: 20 Mar 2001 23:45:12 EST According to L.C. Pedersen's bio in "Mtn men & Fur Trade ofg the Far West", vol. 2, p. 135, "Warren received a reputable education [before leaving home at age 19] being trained as a civil engineer." Which must have included some training in surveying, drafting and perhaps cartography. John R. Sweet ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: New Arthur A. Clark Book Date: 21 Mar 2001 20:13:08 EST --part1_14.115c5d8a.27eaaba4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thought every one would like to know this book is now available from Arther=20 Clark. Maybe if they are overwhelmed with orders they will be encouraged to=20 print and reprint more books on the RMFT Thanks Roadkill Book Review By Jim Wirshborn: Mountain States Weather Wischmann, Lesley, Frontier Diplomats:=A0 The Life and Times of Alexander=20 Culbertson and Natoyist-Siksina, The Arthur H. Clark Company, P. O. Box=20 14707, Spokane, WA 99214-0707, 1-800-842-9286.=A0=A0 2000, 400 pp, maps, ill= us.,=20 bibl, index, hardcover, $39.50 + s/h. Reviewed by James F. Wirshborn This may well be one of the best fur trade history books written and=20 delivered to the public in the last 25 years or more. Frontier Diplomats:=A0 The Life and Times of Alexander Culbertson and=20 Natoyist-Siksina is much more than a biography of Culbertson (1809-1879) and= =20 his Blood (Kainah) tribe wife Natoyist-Siksina (Holy Snake) (1825-1893).=A0=20 This 400 page book with maps and photos is a history of the Upper Missouri=20 River, the American Fur Company, the upper Missouri Indian tribes and the=20 western expansion of America. In the bible of biography of the fur trade LeRoy=A0 R. Hafen's ten volume se= t=20 of The Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the Far West, published by Arthur H= .=20 Clark Company from 1965-1972, Culbertson's biography is covered by Ray H.=20 Mattison of the National Park Service in a mere four pages.=A0 Mattison list= ed=20 14 references and used no primary source material in preparation of=20 Culbertson's biography. Wischmann spent an intense thorough 10 years researching Culbertson and his=20 wife.=A0 She examined Culbertson's journals, that of his contemporaries, his= =20 business records and the business records of the American Fur Company and=20 other companies of the times.=A0 Culbertson was also a liaison between Upper= =20 Missouri tribes and the politicals of Washington, D.C.=A0 These records were= =20 also examined.=A0 =A0 The bibliography 14 pages of hundreds of books, journa= l=20 articles, newspaper articles, government documents, unpublished resources,=20 archival collections of university, Fort Union Trading Post National=20 Historical Site and other forts and posts of the west and state historical=20 societies. Wischnmann said that she was concerned about her lack of prior knowledge=20 about the fur trade.=A0 This was not a hindrance but an immense help in that= =20 she goes back to the beginning of the Fur Trade era examining its developmen= t=20 through Lewis and Clark and on through the St. Louis, Mo. company's=20 exploitation of the tribes as fur and hide sources.=A0 She takes the history= =20 from the beaver to the hide trade to the delivery of annuities for the tribe= s=20 as treaties with the "Great White Father" were made, signed and violated=20 through the 1870s.=A0 She takes the time to give the background information=20= so=20 the setting is known during the time Culbertson was active as a part of this= =20 historical period in American development. Culbertson was born near Chambersburg, Penn. to a Scottish-Irish family in=20 1809.=A0 He worked for his uncle on the frontiers of Florida and Minnesota=20 before joining the American Fur Company in 1833.=A0 He headed west to Fort=20 McKenzie near present-day Fort Benton, Mont. serving the Blackfeet.=A0 In 18= 40=20 he was put in charge of Fort Union near present-day Williston, N. D.=20 Culbertson and his wife worked together in creating good and relations with=20 the upper Missouri tribes.=A0 John Ewers of the Smithsonian Institution=20 described Natoyist-Siksina, or Natawista, as her family called her, as=20 comparable to Sacagawea of the Lewis and Clark expedition.=A0=A0 Culbertson=20= and=20 Natawista worked for more than 30 years to forge relations between the white= s=20 and the tribes of the Upper Missouri. Culbertson founded and built Fort Benton, the "birthplace of Montana."=A0 He= =20 had a reputation as an honest trader which helped negotiate the end of the=20 1833 Crow siege of Fort Mckenzie.=A0 He also hosted a multitude of ministers= ,=20 artists, world travelers, scientists and government surveyors during his=20 tenure on the Upper Missouri. They are referenced in the journals of John James Audubon, Charles=20 Larpenteur, Nicholas Point and Pierre Jean DeSmet, among others.=A0=A0 Culbe= rtson=20 was instrumental in the success of the Fort Laramie Treaty Conference of=20 1851, guiding the 1853 Northern Pacific Railroad Survey party under Isaac=20 Stevens and played key roles in negotiating the treaty with the Blackfeet=20 tribes in 1855 and other treaties in following years. This is Wischmann's first book, an Arthur H. Clark Company publication=20 released October, 2000.=A0 The book is Volume XXVIII of the Arthur H. Clark=20 Company's Western Frontiersman Series.=A0 The red linen cloth book is printe= d=20 on acid-free paper and with a foil-stamped spine and front cover, no dust=20 jacket and was issued as a 750 limited edition and no doubt will go out of=20 print quickly.=A0=20 --part1_14.115c5d8a.27eaaba4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thought every one would l= ike to know this book is now available from Arther=20
Clark. Maybe if they are overwhelmed with orders they will be encouraged= to=20
print and reprint more books on the RMFT      &= nbsp;   Thanks Roadkill

Book Review By Jim Wirshborn: Mountain States Weather

Wischmann, Lesley, Frontier Diplomats:=A0 The Life and Times of Alexande= r=20
Culbertson and Natoyist-Siksina, The Arthur H. Clark Company, P. O. Box=20
14707, Spokane, WA 99214-0707, 1-800-842-9286.=A0=A0 2000, 400 pp, maps,= illus.,=20
bibl, index, hardcover, $39.50 + s/h.

Reviewed by James F. Wirshborn

This may well be one of the best fur trade history books written and=20
delivered to the public in the last 25 years or more.

Frontier Diplomats:=A0 The Life and Times of Alexander Culbertson and=20
Natoyist-Siksina is much more than a biography of Culbertson (1809-1879)= and=20
his Blood (Kainah) tribe wife Natoyist-Siksina (Holy Snake) (1825-1893).= =A0=20
This 400 page book with maps and photos is a history of the Upper Missou= ri=20
River, the American Fur Company, the upper Missouri Indian tribes and th= e=20
western expansion of America.

In the bible of biography of the fur trade LeRoy=A0 R. Hafen's ten volum= e set=20
of The Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the Far West, published by Arth= ur H.=20
Clark Company from 1965-1972, Culbertson's biography is covered by Ray H= .=20
Mattison of the National Park Service in a mere four pages.=A0 Mattison=20= listed=20
14 references and used no primary source material in preparation of=20
Culbertson's biography.

Wischmann spent an intense thorough 10 years researching Culbertson and=20= his=20
wife.=A0 She examined Culbertson's journals, that of his contemporaries,= his=20
business records and the business records of the American Fur Company an= d=20
other companies of the times.=A0 Culbertson was also a liaison between U= pper=20
Missouri tribes and the politicals of Washington, D.C.=A0 These records=20= were=20
also examined.=A0 =A0 The bibliography 14 pages of hundreds of books, jo= urnal=20
articles, newspaper articles, government documents, unpublished resource= s,=20
archival collections of university, Fort Union Trading Post National=20
Historical Site and other forts and posts of the west and state historic= al=20
societies.

Wischnmann said that she was concerned about her lack of prior knowledge= =20
about the fur trade.=A0 This was not a hindrance but an immense help in=20= that=20
she goes back to the beginning of the Fur Trade era examining its develo= pment=20
through Lewis and Clark and on through the St. Louis, Mo. company's=20
exploitation of the tribes as fur and hide sources.=A0 She takes the his= tory=20
from the beaver to the hide trade to the delivery of annuities for the t= ribes=20
as treaties with the "Great White Father" were made, signed and violated= =20
through the 1870s.=A0 She takes the time to give the background informat= ion so=20
the setting is known during the time Culbertson was active as a part of=20= this=20
historical period in American development.

Culbertson was born near Chambersburg, Penn. to a Scottish-Irish family=20= in=20
1809.=A0 He worked for his uncle on the frontiers of Florida and Minneso= ta=20
before joining the American Fur Company in 1833.=A0 He headed west to Fo= rt=20
McKenzie near present-day Fort Benton, Mont. serving the Blackfeet.=A0 I= n 1840=20
he was put in charge of Fort Union near present-day Williston, N. D.=20

Culbertson and his wife worked together in creating good and relations w= ith=20
the upper Missouri tribes.=A0 John Ewers of the Smithsonian Institution=20
described Natoyist-Siksina, or Natawista, as her family called her, as=20
comparable to Sacagawea of the Lewis and Clark expedition.=A0=A0 Culbert= son and=20
Natawista worked for more than 30 years to forge relations between the w= hites=20
and the tribes of the Upper Missouri.

Culbertson founded and built Fort Benton, the "birthplace of Montana."= =A0 He=20
had a reputation as an honest trader which helped negotiate the end of t= he=20
1833 Crow siege of Fort Mckenzie.=A0 He also hosted a multitude of minis= ters,=20
artists, world travelers, scientists and government surveyors during his= =20
tenure on the Upper Missouri.

They are referenced in the journals of John James Audubon, Charles=20
Larpenteur, Nicholas Point and Pierre Jean DeSmet, among others.=A0=A0 C= ulbertson=20
was instrumental in the success of the Fort Laramie Treaty Conference of= =20
1851, guiding the 1853 Northern Pacific Railroad Survey party under Isaa= c=20
Stevens and played key roles in negotiating the treaty with the Blackfee= t=20
tribes in 1855 and other treaties in following years.

This is Wischmann's first book, an Arthur H. Clark Company publication=20
released October, 2000.=A0 The book is Volume XXVIII of the Arthur H. Cl= ark=20
Company's Western Frontiersman Series.=A0 The red linen cloth book is pr= inted=20
on acid-free paper and with a foil-stamped spine and front cover, no dus= t=20
jacket and was issued as a 750 limited edition and no doubt will go out=20= of=20
print quickly.=A0=20



--part1_14.115c5d8a.27eaaba4_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: =?UTF-8?Q?Oaken=20Kegs?= Date: 21 Mar 2001 22:06:34 EST Aaaaaaargh! For the first time in over five years my water keg has dried=20 out so much the bands are loose. ....that's how dry it's been in the NW.=20 After two days of soaking. it now holds water....kinda. My question is how do others store their kegs? I've tried storing them full=20 of water, but before being called "Magpie", my name was "Stinking Water=20 Steve" ....mebbe a shot or two of chlorine would keep the worms away.... Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oaken Kegs Date: 21 Mar 2001 22:11:55 -0500 Magpie.. I store my keg dry, but it don't hurt to occasionally fill it with water, usually from the hose outside when watering the garden and once a month in the bathtub in the Winter.. Just pay attention to it once in awhile and it will never let you down.. Don't just "store" it away.. D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Oaken Kegs Date: 21 Mar 2001 20:11:53 -0800 I have a 3 gallon oak keg. I store it dry. It gets real dry.... 5 days , or so, before I plan to use it I try to fill it as best I can (it's leaking faster than I can fill it at this point). I have a 5 gallon plastic bucket (full of water) at the ready. I plunge the 'as full as I can get it' keg into the 5 gallon bucket with water in it. I place a weight on top of the keg in order to keep it submerged. I leave it like this for several days. I check to make sure the keg is full of water. A few drops of bleach in the water doesn't hurt. If the bands are loose, make sure they are in place before the keg swells again. The last time I did this, I placed the keg on a stack of newspapers for transport to rendezvous. When I arrived nearly 12 hours later, there was not a drop of water on the newspapers... to my grateful astonishment. This method works for me. hardtack > Aaaaaaargh! For the first time in over five years my water keg has dried > out so much the bands are loose. .... > > My question is how do others store their ke ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Hunt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oaken Kegs Date: 21 Mar 2001 23:42:02 -0500 Magpie, use big gourds 3-3 1/2 gal size. Wax line `em. Won`t have that problem. John (BIG JOHN) Hunt longhunter mountainman Southwest, Ohio ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:06 PM > Aaaaaaargh! For the first time in over five years my water keg has dried > out so much the bands are loose. ....that's how dry it's been in the NW. > After two days of soaking. it now holds water....kinda. > My question is how do others store their kegs? I've tried storing them full > of water, but before being called "Magpie", my name was "Stinking Water > Steve" ....mebbe a shot or two of chlorine would keep the worms away.... > > Ymos, > Magpie > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: =?UTF-8?Q?Oaken=20Kegs?= Date: 21 Mar 2001 22:54:38 -0600 Magpie, To keep water fresh over long periods put a bag of anise seeds in the water and leave them there when in storage, the water remains drinkable if slightly flavored. If you make your keg of cypress you will not have a problem with stagnant/slimy water. This is not a new problem these are two old solutions to same. If a wood keg is repeatedly soaked and dried with each cycle it becomes slightly smaller in size as the softer fibers of the wood are crushed between the harder ones, changes of humidity do much the same to furniture. I have a fine old oak bucket that was wonderful for many years -- now when I soak it up I have to shim the bands or they are insufficient to seize the staves, the iron did not stretch. Wax linings may work in gourds (I never had one stay whole long enough to find out) in kegs it will inevitably start chunking off and floating about in the water. Hence the seal is imperfect and the water is real funky all the time. It is best to use your wooden ware regularly and constantly to get full service life from it. When you say holds water ...kinda; you did drive the bands back on tight didn't you? Chlorine (in small concentrations) can purify water from bacteria it will not keep it from getting skanky, it can, in sufficient quantity, poison your keg. John... At 10:06 PM 3/21/01 -0500, you wrote: >Aaaaaaargh! For the first time in over five years my water keg has dried >out so much the bands are loose. ....that's how dry it's been in the NW. >After two days of soaking. it now holds water....kinda. >My question is how do others store their kegs? I've tried storing them full >of water, but before being called "Magpie", my name was "Stinking Water >Steve" ....mebbe a shot or two of chlorine would keep the worms away.... > >Ymos, >Magpie "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin 1759 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oaken Kegs Date: 22 Mar 2001 01:35:54 EST I have a 5 gal oak keg lined with brewers pitch, and during months of storage I keep it in a dark spot with about 3 inches of water in it. It gets a bit slimy, but a day before leaving for a 'voo, I wash (scrub) it with a mixture of dishwashing soap and bleach, rinse it throughly, then put in a few inches from the hose for the trip to 'voo. On arrival I dump out the few inches, then fill it completely with bottled water. Nine years on this keg, its never leaked a drop, the bands are as tight as the day it was made and people love to dip a ladle in and take a drink of some of the sweetest water ever to wet a whistle. Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Iambrainey@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oaken Kegs Date: 22 Mar 2001 07:18:35 EST --part1_8.11f07e64.27eb479b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An old tip on wooden canteens is to occasionally put a few drops of oil of cinnamon in and slosh around. Leaves just enough flavor to eliminate the staleness of wooden water ware. It's available where baking supplies, cake decorating, food flavorings are sold. Ben --part1_8.11f07e64.27eb479b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An old tip on wooden canteens is to occasionally put a few drops of oil of
cinnamon in and slosh around.  Leaves just enough flavor to eliminate the
staleness of wooden water ware.  It's available where baking supplies, cake
decorating, food flavorings are sold.

Ben --part1_8.11f07e64.27eb479b_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Date: 22 Mar 2001 10:32:15 EST --part1_d0.132e12c4.27eb74ff_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is the information that I received from Jim Wirshborn as he is a close=20 friend of Terry and has been in contact with his wife since the beginning.=20 Roadkill Terry C. Johnson, award winning author, including the nine part series on the mountain man character Titus Bass, remains in intensive care of a Billings, Mont. hospital since early February. He is near death. He was disconnected from life support systems Wednesday morning. Wednesday evening he was breathing on his own but there is little chance of recovery. February 2, the day after the release of his final book in the Titus Bass series Wind Walker, Terry was admitted to a Billings, Mont. hospital for what was thought to be an appendicitis attack.=A0 The appendix was removed and he was being treated for an infection as if the appendix had ruptured. The next day he looked better but was back in surgery Feb. 4 since he was having trouble breathing.=A0 Doctors found a perforated colon and a malignant tumor.=A0 A section of the colon was removed.=A0 They also found lymph node cancer but could not do a CAT scan at the time to determine the extent of the cancer.=A0 He was placed on a respirator. Since that time there have been several additional surgeries.=A0 Kidneys and digestive system and other organs shutdown.=A0 He was placed on a feeding tube. According to Vanette Johnston, Terry's wife,=A0 Tuesday, a CAT Scan was done and it was found that the cancer had spread aggressively throughout his body. Anyone who has met Terry or has read his books knows what a unique individual he is.=A0 I meet him at a conference in Jackson Hole a few years ago.=A0 We had a chance to talk during dinner. Months later I went to a book fair in Denver and he was there.=A0 He was signing a book, looked up from the desk and said "Jim how did you get out of your cage."=A0 I never dreamed he would remember me from a couple of hours of talking with him and him meeting thousands of people all year. He shared with me his writing routine of getting up in the morning, writing for four hours, having lunch, taking a walk near his Billings home and then working through the afternoon. I always wondered how an author is able to "see" the character through all the adventures Titus Bass has gone though.=A0 Thousands of pages Terry has written on Bass.=A0 Bears, blizzards, fast water, no water, scalping, gun fire, accidents, cold, heat, anything you can think of that a guy would get into tramping around from the 1820s to the 1840s in the West. He spent many months of the year on the road promoting his books, speaking to groups and researching for future books.=A0 He has written more than 20 other books other than the mountain man series on the Nee Perce, Custer and other western historical events. I am just an arm chair historian.=A0 I read a lot.=A0 I am not a reenactor nor a trained historian but I love the mountain man era.=A0 I have found Terry's work to be a work of history, rather than "just" a novel.=A0 In all my reading of his books I never found any historical event that wasn't backed up by scholarly reported history of the era.=A0 His writing is truly remarkable, vivid and captivating. His ability to report on the geography in which Titus moves through from the days of Ashley to the Oregon Trail days is also remarkable, down to minor details.. It is a fine line between the character of Titus Bass and the man Terry C. Johnson. They have the mountain ethic, a can do attitude, a quickness of thought and a weight out the problem and take action type persona. Terry was to visit me last Saturday.=A0 He was working on a John Colter biography and 15 other biographical novels of mountain men. No matter what happens to any of us, perhaps the scene in the final Titus Bass book with=A0 Titus now a grandpa and his daughter Amanda is a thought to remember.=A0 It is not the body in the ground, it is the memories of that person, the joy they gave, the thought they provoked that we should take the memories down the trail and not worry about the body. A fund is being established to help with medical bills and expenses for the family.=A0 There will be an address and details on the fund soon. There will also be a scholarship fund established in Terry's name. If you wish to send a card to the family here is the address: Vanette Johnston P. O. Box 50594 Billings, MT 59105 Vanette asks that you not call the hospital as it is a small facility with limited staff. I will keep you all informed.=A0 Also, if you have any remembrances of your meetings with Terry please send them to me. Jim Wirshborn email msws@msws.net --part1_d0.132e12c4.27eb74ff_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is the information t= hat I received from Jim Wirshborn as he is a close=20
friend of Terry and has been in contact with his wife since the beginnin= g.=20
Roadkill

Terry C. Johnson, award winning author, including the nine part series
on the mountain man character Titus Bass, remains in intensive care of a
Billings, Mont. hospital since early February.

He is near death.

He was disconnected from life support systems Wednesday morning.
Wednesday evening he was breathing on his own but there is little chance
of recovery.

February 2, the day after the release of his final book in the Titus
Bass series Wind Walker, Terry was admitted to a Billings, Mont.
hospital for what was thought to be an appendicitis attack.=A0 The
appendix was removed and he was being treated for an infection as if the
appendix had ruptured.

The next day he looked better but was back in surgery Feb. 4 since he
was having trouble breathing.=A0 Doctors found a perforated colon and a
malignant tumor.=A0 A section of the colon was removed.=A0 They also fou= nd
lymph node cancer but could not do a CAT scan at the time to determine
the extent of the cancer.=A0 He was placed on a respirator.

Since that time there have been several additional surgeries.=A0 Kidneys
and digestive system and other organs shutdown.=A0 He was placed on a
feeding tube.

According to Vanette Johnston, Terry's wife,=A0 Tuesday, a CAT Scan was
done and it was found that the cancer had spread aggressively throughout
his body.

Anyone who has met Terry or has read his books knows what a unique
individual he is.=A0 I meet him at a conference in Jackson Hole a few
years ago.=A0 We had a chance to talk during dinner.

Months later I went to a book fair in Denver and he was there.=A0 He was
signing a book, looked up from the desk and said "Jim how did you get
out of your cage."=A0 I never dreamed he would remember me from a couple
of hours of talking with him and him meeting thousands of people all
year.

He shared with me his writing routine of getting up in the morning,
writing for four hours, having lunch, taking a walk near his Billings
home and then working through the afternoon.

I always wondered how an author is able to "see" the character through
all the adventures Titus Bass has gone though.=A0 Thousands of pages Ter= ry
has written on Bass.=A0 Bears, blizzards, fast water, no water, scalping= ,
gun fire, accidents, cold, heat, anything you can think of that a guy
would get into tramping around from the 1820s to the 1840s in the West.

He spent many months of the year on the road promoting his books,
speaking to groups and researching for future books.=A0 He has written
more than 20 other books other than the mountain man series on the Nee
Perce, Custer and other western historical events.

I am just an arm chair historian.=A0 I read a lot.=A0 I am not a reenact= or
nor a trained historian but I love the mountain man era.=A0 I have found
Terry's work to be a work of history, rather than "just" a novel.=A0 In
all my reading of his books I never found any historical event that
wasn't backed up by scholarly reported history of the era.=A0 His writin= g
is truly remarkable, vivid and captivating.

His ability to report on the geography in which Titus moves through from
the days of Ashley to the Oregon Trail days is also remarkable, down to
minor details..

It is a fine line between the character of Titus Bass and the man Terry
C. Johnson.

They have the mountain ethic, a can do attitude, a quickness of thought
and a weight out the problem and take action type persona.

Terry was to visit me last Saturday.=A0 He was working on a John Colter
biography and 15 other biographical novels of mountain men.

No matter what happens to any of us, perhaps the scene in the final
Titus Bass book with=A0 Titus now a grandpa and his daughter Amanda is a
thought to remember.=A0 It is not the body in the ground, it is the
memories of that person, the joy they gave, the thought they provoked
that we should take the memories down the trail and not worry about the
body.

A fund is being established to help with medical bills and expenses for
the family.=A0 There will be an address and details on the fund soon.
There will also be a scholarship fund established in Terry's name.

If you wish to send a card to the family here is the address:
Vanette Johnston
P. O. Box 50594
Billings, MT 59105

Vanette asks that you not call the hospital as it is a small facility
with limited staff.

I will keep you all informed.=A0 Also, if you have any remembrances of
your meetings with Terry please send them to me.

Jim Wirshborn
email msws@msws.net



--part1_d0.132e12c4.27eb74ff_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul W. Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Date: 22 Mar 2001 09:45:10 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0B2B4.C8F60E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, What a well-written and thoughtful commentary. I salute Jim for the = facts presented, the emotions expressed in such a fine and dignified = manner, and the over-all quality of his comments. This one stopped me = short as I sat perched in my every-ready delete mode. I have called a = friend to ask him to read it, as he is a Johnston fan. Thank you most = sincerely for sharing this with the list. Regards, Paul CLARK & SONS MERCANTILE, INC. "One Who Trades" "Uno quien negocia" "Unqui commerce" English Spanish = French Visit our Web-Page at http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ P.O. Box 270844 Houston, Texas 77277-0844 (713) 839-7884 = Fax (713) 668-9589=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MarkLoader@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:32 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston This is the information that I received from Jim Wirshborn as he is a = close=20 friend of Terry and has been in contact with his wife since the = beginning.=20 Roadkill=20 Terry C. Johnson, award winning author, including the nine part series = on the mountain man character Titus Bass, remains in intensive care of = a=20 Billings, Mont. hospital since early February.=20 He is near death.=20 He was disconnected from life support systems Wednesday morning.=20 Wednesday evening he was breathing on his own but there is little = chance=20 of recovery.=20 February 2, the day after the release of his final book in the Titus=20 Bass series Wind Walker, Terry was admitted to a Billings, Mont.=20 hospital for what was thought to be an appendicitis attack. The=20 appendix was removed and he was being treated for an infection as if = the=20 appendix had ruptured.=20 The next day he looked better but was back in surgery Feb. 4 since he=20 was having trouble breathing. Doctors found a perforated colon and a=20 malignant tumor. A section of the colon was removed. They also found = lymph node cancer but could not do a CAT scan at the time to determine = the extent of the cancer. He was placed on a respirator.=20 Since that time there have been several additional surgeries. Kidneys = and digestive system and other organs shutdown. He was placed on a=20 feeding tube.=20 According to Vanette Johnston, Terry's wife, Tuesday, a CAT Scan was=20 done and it was found that the cancer had spread aggressively = throughout=20 his body.=20 Anyone who has met Terry or has read his books knows what a unique=20 individual he is. I meet him at a conference in Jackson Hole a few=20 years ago. We had a chance to talk during dinner.=20 Months later I went to a book fair in Denver and he was there. He was = signing a book, looked up from the desk and said "Jim how did you get=20 out of your cage." I never dreamed he would remember me from a couple = of hours of talking with him and him meeting thousands of people all=20 year.=20 He shared with me his writing routine of getting up in the morning,=20 writing for four hours, having lunch, taking a walk near his Billings=20 home and then working through the afternoon.=20 I always wondered how an author is able to "see" the character through = all the adventures Titus Bass has gone though. Thousands of pages = Terry=20 has written on Bass. Bears, blizzards, fast water, no water, = scalping,=20 gun fire, accidents, cold, heat, anything you can think of that a guy=20 would get into tramping around from the 1820s to the 1840s in the = West.=20 He spent many months of the year on the road promoting his books,=20 speaking to groups and researching for future books. He has written=20 more than 20 other books other than the mountain man series on the Nee = Perce, Custer and other western historical events.=20 I am just an arm chair historian. I read a lot. I am not a reenactor = nor a trained historian but I love the mountain man era. I have found = Terry's work to be a work of history, rather than "just" a novel. In=20 all my reading of his books I never found any historical event that=20 wasn't backed up by scholarly reported history of the era. His = writing=20 is truly remarkable, vivid and captivating.=20 His ability to report on the geography in which Titus moves through = from=20 the days of Ashley to the Oregon Trail days is also remarkable, down = to=20 minor details..=20 It is a fine line between the character of Titus Bass and the man = Terry=20 C. Johnson.=20 They have the mountain ethic, a can do attitude, a quickness of = thought=20 and a weight out the problem and take action type persona.=20 Terry was to visit me last Saturday. He was working on a John Colter=20 biography and 15 other biographical novels of mountain men.=20 No matter what happens to any of us, perhaps the scene in the final=20 Titus Bass book with Titus now a grandpa and his daughter Amanda is a = thought to remember. It is not the body in the ground, it is the=20 memories of that person, the joy they gave, the thought they provoked=20 that we should take the memories down the trail and not worry about = the=20 body.=20 A fund is being established to help with medical bills and expenses = for=20 the family. There will be an address and details on the fund soon.=20 There will also be a scholarship fund established in Terry's name.=20 If you wish to send a card to the family here is the address:=20 Vanette Johnston=20 P. O. Box 50594=20 Billings, MT 59105=20 Vanette asks that you not call the hospital as it is a small facility=20 with limited staff.=20 I will keep you all informed. Also, if you have any remembrances of=20 your meetings with Terry please send them to me.=20 Jim Wirshborn=20 email msws@msws.net=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0B2B4.C8F60E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,
 
What a well-written and thoughtful = commentary.  I=20 salute Jim for the facts presented, the emotions expressed in such a = fine and=20 dignified manner, and the over-all quality of his comments.  This = one=20 stopped me short as I sat perched in my every-ready delete mode.  I = have=20 called a friend to ask him to read it, as he is a Johnston fan.  = Thank you=20 most sincerely for sharing this with the list.
 
Regards,
 
Paul
 
CLARK & SONS MERCANTILE,=20 INC.
 
"One Who Trades"  "Uno quien = negocia" =20 "Unqui commerce"
 
       =20 English           =             &= nbsp;   =20 Spanish           =             &= nbsp;     =20 French
 
Visit our Web-Page at http://www.teleport.com/= ~walking/clark/
 
P.O. Box 270844  Houston, Texas=20 77277-0844         (713)=20 839-7884
          &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;   =20 Fax  (713) 668-9589
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 MarkLoader@aol.com
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 = 9:32=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry=20 Johnston

This is the = information=20 that I received from Jim Wirshborn as he is a close
friend of = Terry and=20 has been in contact with his wife since the beginning.
Roadkill=20

Terry C. Johnson, award winning author, including the nine = part series=20
on the mountain man character Titus Bass, remains in intensive = care of a=20
Billings, Mont. hospital since early February.

He is near = death.=20

He was disconnected from life support systems Wednesday = morning.=20
Wednesday evening he was breathing on his own but there is little = chance=20
of recovery.

February 2, the day after the release of his = final=20 book in the Titus
Bass series Wind Walker, Terry was admitted to a = Billings, Mont.
hospital for what was thought to be an = appendicitis=20 attack.  The
appendix was removed and he was being treated = for an=20 infection as if the
appendix had ruptured.

The next day he = looked=20 better but was back in surgery Feb. 4 since he
was having trouble=20 breathing.  Doctors found a perforated colon and a
malignant=20 tumor.  A section of the colon was removed.  They also found =
lymph node cancer but could not do a CAT scan at the time to = determine=20
the extent of the cancer.  He was placed on a respirator.=20

Since that time there have been several additional = surgeries. =20 Kidneys
and digestive system and other organs shutdown.  He = was=20 placed on a
feeding tube.

According to Vanette Johnston, = Terry's=20 wife,  Tuesday, a CAT Scan was
done and it was found that the = cancer=20 had spread aggressively throughout
his body.

Anyone who = has met=20 Terry or has read his books knows what a unique
individual he = is.  I=20 meet him at a conference in Jackson Hole a few
years ago.  We = had a=20 chance to talk during dinner.

Months later I went to a book = fair in=20 Denver and he was there.  He was
signing a book, looked up = from the=20 desk and said "Jim how did you get
out of your cage."  I = never=20 dreamed he would remember me from a couple
of hours of talking = with him=20 and him meeting thousands of people all
year.

He shared = with me=20 his writing routine of getting up in the morning,
writing for four = hours,=20 having lunch, taking a walk near his Billings
home and then = working=20 through the afternoon.

I always wondered how an author is able = to=20 "see" the character through
all the adventures Titus Bass has gone = though.  Thousands of pages Terry
has written on Bass.  = Bears,=20 blizzards, fast water, no water, scalping,
gun fire, accidents, = cold,=20 heat, anything you can think of that a guy
would get into tramping = around=20 from the 1820s to the 1840s in the West.

He spent many months = of the=20 year on the road promoting his books,
speaking to groups and = researching=20 for future books.  He has written
more than 20 other books = other than=20 the mountain man series on the Nee
Perce, Custer and other western = historical events.

I am just an arm chair historian.  I = read a=20 lot.  I am not a reenactor
nor a trained historian but I love = the=20 mountain man era.  I have found
Terry's work to be a work of = history,=20 rather than "just" a novel.  In
all my reading of his books I = never=20 found any historical event that
wasn't backed up by scholarly = reported=20 history of the era.  His writing
is truly remarkable, vivid = and=20 captivating.

His ability to report on the geography in which = Titus=20 moves through from
the days of Ashley to the Oregon Trail days is = also=20 remarkable, down to
minor details..

It is a fine line = between the=20 character of Titus Bass and the man Terry
C. Johnson.

They = have=20 the mountain ethic, a can do attitude, a quickness of thought
and = a weight=20 out the problem and take action type persona.

Terry was to = visit me=20 last Saturday.  He was working on a John Colter
biography and = 15=20 other biographical novels of mountain men.

No matter what = happens to=20 any of us, perhaps the scene in the final
Titus Bass book = with  Titus=20 now a grandpa and his daughter Amanda is a
thought to = remember.  It=20 is not the body in the ground, it is the
memories of that person, = the joy=20 they gave, the thought they provoked
that we should take the = memories down=20 the trail and not worry about the
body.

A fund is being=20 established to help with medical bills and expenses for
the = family. =20 There will be an address and details on the fund soon.
There will = also be=20 a scholarship fund established in Terry's name.

If you wish to = send a=20 card to the family here is the address:
Vanette Johnston
P. O. = Box=20 50594
Billings, MT 59105

Vanette asks that you not call = the=20 hospital as it is a small facility
with limited staff.

I = will keep=20 you all informed.  Also, if you have any remembrances of
your = meetings with Terry please send them to me.

Jim Wirshborn =
email=20 msws@msws.net



------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0B2B4.C8F60E40-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mtnman1449@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Date: 22 Mar 2001 12:01:42 EST --part1_79.11f26b15.27eb89f6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I concur with Pauls comments. A fine tribute. Have met Terry too on several occasions, usually at book signings. While I've always enjoyed Terry's work, wondered at the prolific generation of fur trade and western history novels he turned out, I will now treasure more than ever no a photo of Me, Terry and my 9 year old (at the time) daughter, all dressed in out period tur trade clothing. Vannette is a lovely lady and we wish her all the best through this difficult period. Patrick Surrena AMM #1449 --part1_79.11f26b15.27eb89f6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I concur with Pauls comments.  A fine tribute.  Have met Terry too on several
occasions, usually at book signings.  While I've always enjoyed Terry's work,
wondered at the prolific generation of fur trade and western history novels
he turned out, I will now treasure more than ever no a photo of Me, Terry and
my 9 year old (at the time) daughter, all dressed in out period tur trade
clothing.  Vannette is a lovely lady and we wish her all the best through
this difficult period.  

Patrick Surrena
AMM #1449














--part1_79.11f26b15.27eb89f6_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul W. Jones" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Song Inquiry Date: 22 Mar 2001 17:02:54 -0600 For reasons I do not understand, Jennifer has not been able to send queries to the list. She has asked that I forward this question about "songs." As some of you are known to howl at the Moon in a fine harmony with the occasional coherent word or three thrown in for the betterment of those more sober, perhaps someone can help this nice young Lady. Regards, Paul ----- Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 1:29 PM I'm looking for any songs (the lyrics, specifically) sung by mountain men. Does anyone know of any diaries,etc. that might list such songs? I'm most interested in love songs. Thanks! JH __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Date: 22 Mar 2001 18:03:53 -0700 That is devastating news about Terry. What an awful coincidence that just a couple of weeks after I finish the last Titus Bass book and am wondering what comes next to feed my addiction this happens. I have wanted to meet Terry for years and thank him personally for the many hours of enjoyment while reading his books. It sounds like the end of the trail is near for him. If this is his final ride, I hope it's a peaceful one. Another reminder not to take friends, family or life for granted. "Teton" Todd D. Glover http://homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WSmith4100@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Date: 22 Mar 2001 21:36:29 EST --part1_ce.1261d68c.27ec10ad_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, Thank you very much for he update. What a sad & unexpected development. Like the others, Terry has given me many hours/days/weeksof reading pleasure. I was touched by the very personal way that he and Vanette answered the emails and letters. Made you feel like a true close friend. Our thoughts and prayers go out to Terry and Vanette and their family. p.s. can somebody please post Terry's website. I wan't able to recover it when my computer crashed. Wade "Sleeps Loudly" Smith Boise, ID --part1_ce.1261d68c.27ec10ad_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark,
    Thank you very much for he update.  What a sad  & unexpected
development.  Like the others,  Terry has given me many hours/days/weeksof
reading pleasure.  I was touched by the very personal way that he and Vanette
answered the emails and letters.  Made you feel like a true close friend.  
Our thoughts and prayers go out to Terry and Vanette and their family.

p.s. can somebody please post  Terry's website.  I wan't able to recover it
when my computer crashed.

Wade "Sleeps Loudly" Smith
Boise, ID --part1_ce.1261d68c.27ec10ad_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Song Inquiry Date: 22 Mar 2001 21:38:30 -0600 To make things easier I dug out this from the information I just posted. Lanney. http://www.contemplator.com/america/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Song Inquiry Date: 22 Mar 2001 21:34:28 -0600 Lord knows what a mountaineer might have sung. Here are two sites with lots of old music that can be mined for possibilities. Lanney Ratcliff http://chivalry.com/cantaria/lists/traditional.html http://contemplator.com/folk.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Song query Date: 22 Mar 2001 20:52:30 -0700 >I'm looking for any songs (the lyrics, specifically) sung >by mountain men. Have you checked out the Contemplator web site? It's at www.contemplator.com, and has lots of historic folk music, complete with dates, nationalities, lyrics & music. And links to other good sites too. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Date: 22 Mar 2001 23:14:12 EST In a message dated 3/22, WSmith4100@aol.com writes: << p.s. can somebody please post Terry's website. I wan't able to recover it when my computer crashed. >> The address is: http://cu.imt.net/~tjohnston/ Longshot ******************************************************** "Longshot's Rendezvous Homepage" (Newly Redesigned) http://members.aol.com/lodgepole/longshot.html ******************************************************** ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Song Inquiry Date: 22 Mar 2001 23:17:07 EST > Lord knows what a mountaineer might have sung. Dover sells a book that is nothing but 19th century songs. I just saw it the other day when looking for something else. They have a website and you can order directly online. A quick websearch using Dover Publications will yield the URL. For all others, it would behoove you to visit this site. They have tons of books about the fur trade by prominent authors, including L&C's journals in 3 volumes along with many other books of historical interest. All are paperbound and most run around $9.95 to $20. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oaken Kegs Date: 23 Mar 2001 00:28:22 EST In a message dated 3/21/01 8:55:48 PM, kramer@kramerize.com writes: << To keep water fresh over long periods put a bag of anise seeds in the water and leave them there when in storage, >> Thanks Boys...for all the tips. I got one of them white "you can drink out of it" hoses, and slowly ran the water into the keg (two days!) and got the keg to swell enough to hold the bands tight. No leaks now... I'm thinkin I'll keep water in the kegs during the winters now, with the anise seeds John Kramer mentions... Would be nice to scrub it out once in a while, but my kegs don't open...just a bung and tap. Headed to Bonnie Lake in the mourning with the Great Capt Lahti and a few other AMM brothers for the weekend...should be great fun. We'll terrorize the coyotes with our flintlocks and varmit calls.... and I will report. Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: HBCo Flag Date: 23 Mar 2001 00:35:55 EST Hallo the List, Does anyone know where I can buy a 1800s, Hudson Bay Company flag? (reproduction!) Mebbe something 2'X3' would work.... I've checked Ft. Vancouver and they ain't got em. Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: HBCo Flag Date: 23 Mar 2001 01:47:23 EST In a message dated 3/22/01 9:36:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, SWcushing@aol.com writes: << Does anyone know where I can buy a 1800s, Hudson Bay Company flag? >> Magpie, If Quinn Flags or AAA Flag & Banner don't have it as a stock item, they can make it for you. Here's the links... Hope this helps! Barn Quinn Flags and Banners. AAA FLAG & BANNER MFG. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Song Inquiry Date: 23 Mar 2001 09:38:48 -0500 Those are great sites for music. I play dulcimer and did not have a few of the lyrics to some songs, now I do. Linda holley Lanney Ratcliff wrote: > Lord knows what a mountaineer might have sung. Here are two sites with lots > of old music that can be mined for possibilities. > Lanney Ratcliff > http://chivalry.com/cantaria/lists/traditional.html > > http://contemplator.com/folk.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Terry C. Johnston / Titus Bass (Scratch) Date: 23 Mar 2001 09:47:36 -0500 "Patrick, Ian" wrote: > <> > No one is more grieved than I to send this > news. Thank you all for your kind thoughts > and prayers for him. The Great Spirit evidently > needs a story teller. We were blessed that he > told us the ones he had time to here. > Ian > > ----- > Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010323005927.0072b960@imt.net> > From: Vanette Johnston > To: alanpiehl@msn.com > Subject: even Titus Bass can't win all the battles > Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:59:27 -0700 > X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) > > I know it has been several days since the last email and I apologize. On > Monday at CT scan revealed three "spots" on Terry's brain. Tuesday morning > he had a MRI which confirmed that the "spots" were indeed malignant tumors > and that over the course of time Terry had suffered a series of strokes. > All five of Terry's doctor's gave the same prognosis - he wouldn't survive > the treatment and he would have brain damage. Since Terry and I discussed > this many times before, I knew of his wishes. Wednesday morning at 9:30 > a.m. Terry was taken off of all life support, with the exception of some > oxygen to assist his while breathing on his own. The doctors did not > expect him to last long once the ventilator was withdrawn. Well, if you > know Terry, of course he proved them wrong! He is still fighting even > though we know the inevitable will come. Terry's dear friend, Link Hullar, > and I have been with Terry since the life support was withdrawn so there is > someone with him at all times. Sue Hart and Bob and Patty Sidey have been > there also to help with details and support. It is just a matter of time. > We know that this was the hardest battle Terry ever had to fight and he, > like Titus Bass, couldn't win this one. The doctors now feel, after seeing > how fast these tumors developed in the brain that he may never have had a > chance. At least Terry has been spared the agony of chemotherapy which > would have had the same end result but with a lot more pain and suffering. > And this way, he gets to keep his topknot! > > Thank you for all the prayers and well wishes. I will send one last email > when the time comes. > > Vanette ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Update Date: 23 Mar 2001 10:41:06 EST --part1_6c.8d1291d.27ecc892_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is an update from Vanette Johnston on Terry's condition : Forwarded By Roadkill "On Monday a CT scan revealed three "spots" on Terry's brain.=A0 Tuesday morning he had a MRI which confirmed that the "spots" were indeed malignant tumors and that over the course of time Terry had suffered a series of strokes. "All five of Terry's doctor's gave the same prognosis - he wouldn't survive the treatment and he would have brain damage.=A0 Since Terry and I discussed this many times before, I knew of his wishes.=A0 Wednesday morning at 9:30 a.m. Terry was taken off of all life support, with the exception of some oxygen to assist his while breathing on his own. "The doctors did not expect him to last long once the ventilator was withdrawn.=A0 Well, if you know Terry, of course he proved them wrong!=A0 He is still fighting even though we know the inevitable will come.=A0 Terry's dear friend, Link Hullar, and I have been with Terry since the life support was withdrawn so there is someone with him at all times.=A0 Sue Hart and Bob and Patty Sidey have been there also to help with details and support.=A0 It is just a matter of time. "We know that this was the hardest battle Terry ever had to fight and he, like Titus Bass, couldn't win this one.=A0 The doctors now feel, after seeing how fast these tumors developed in the brain that he may never have had a chance. "At least Terry has been spared the agony of chemotherapy which would have had the same end result but with a lot more pain and suffering. And this way, he gets to keep his topknot! Thank you for all the prayers and well wishes.=A0 I will send one last email when the time comes. Vanette" I wanted to convey to you all how kind and thoughtful Vanette has been to keep us all informed at this most difficult time in her life and the life of their kids.=A0 She is a rock. A fund is in the process of being established where by people who wish to make a contribution=A0 to help with medical expenses and the establishment of a scholarship fund will be able to donate. I will let you know when the funeral will be and if it will be open to the public. Someone had asked about Terry's web site: http://www.imt.net/~tjohnston/index.html Jim Wirshborn msws@msws.net www.msws.net --part1_6c.8d1291d.27ecc892_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is an update from Va= nette Johnston on Terry's condition :

Forwarded By Roadkill

"On Monday a CT scan revealed three "spots" on Terry's brain.=A0 Tuesday
morning he had a MRI which confirmed that the "spots" were indeed
malignant tumors and that over the course of time Terry had suffered a
series of strokes.

"All five of Terry's doctor's gave the same prognosis - he wouldn't
survive the treatment and he would have brain damage.=A0 Since Terry and= I
discussed this many times before, I knew of his wishes.=A0 Wednesday
morning at 9:30 a.m. Terry was taken off of all life support, with the
exception of some oxygen to assist his while breathing on his own.

"The doctors did not expect him to last long once the ventilator was
withdrawn.=A0 Well, if you know Terry, of course he proved them wrong!= =A0 He
is still fighting even though we know the inevitable will come.=A0 Terry= 's
dear friend, Link Hullar, and I have been with Terry since the life
support was withdrawn so there is someone with him at all times.=A0 Sue
Hart and Bob and Patty Sidey have been there also to help with details
and support.=A0 It is just a matter of time.

"We know that this was the hardest battle Terry ever had to fight and
he, like Titus Bass, couldn't win this one.=A0 The doctors now feel, aft= er
seeing how fast these tumors developed in the brain that he may never
have had a chance.

"At least Terry has been spared the agony of chemotherapy which would
have had the same end result but with a lot more pain and suffering. And
this way, he gets to keep his topknot!

Thank you for all the prayers and well wishes.=A0 I will send one last
email
when the time comes.

Vanette"

I wanted to convey to you all how kind and thoughtful Vanette has been
to keep us all informed at this most difficult time in her life and the
life of their kids.=A0 She is a rock.

A fund is in the process of being established where by people who wish
to make a contribution=A0 to help with medical expenses and the
establishment of a scholarship fund will be able to donate.

I will let you know when the funeral will be and if it will be open to
the public.

Someone had asked about Terry's web site:

http://www.imt.net/~tjohnston/index.html

Jim Wirshborn
msws@msws.net
www.msws.net




--part1_6c.8d1291d.27ecc892_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jerry strobel" Subject: MtMan-List: A friend I never met. not yet. Thank you Terry Johnston. Date: 24 Mar 2001 01:07:29 My condolences and prayers to Vanette Johnston and her family, Mrs. Johnston you are a special woman to have shared terry with us and in the pages of his novels his fathomless love for you shone as bright as the sun. I was hoping Terry would be around a lot longer and share more tales with us his friends he has'nt met, not yet at least. I had to stop a while and reflect on all things in life I had taken for granted. God has blessed me with a good woman of my own and a four month old son and he is read to sleep each night to the tales of ol' Scratch. Today I shed many tears for my friend I'll meet one day, and for those who are'nt left behind somuch as follwin' the trail Terry is blazin' for us. God Bless you all, and take a little time each day to reflect on your own particular life so as it won't be left for granted. Thank you Y.M.O.S. Jerry Strobel _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "wiggles" Subject: MtMan-List: unsubscribe Date: 23 Mar 2001 19:32:44 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0B3D0.08B62C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0B3D0.08B62C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0B3D0.08B62C60-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WSmith4100@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Update Date: 24 Mar 2001 00:48:56 EST --part1_ac.12595767.27ed8f48_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank You to Mark and Lodgepole for the update on Terry's website. Boy, what a couple of days for the Johnston family. Again, our thoughts and prayers pour out to them. Wade Smith Boise, Id --part1_ac.12595767.27ed8f48_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank You to Mark and Lodgepole for the update on Terry's website.
Boy, what a couple of days for the Johnston family.

Again, our thoughts and prayers pour out to them.

Wade Smith
Boise, Id
--part1_ac.12595767.27ed8f48_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jerry strobel" Subject: MtMan-List: 1820-1840 Rifle sources? Date: 24 Mar 2001 21:25:12 I have a question. Is there not anyone building J. Henry or Henry Deringer Lancaster(American) styled trade rifles that were shipped west from N.Y. and Philadelphia? Yes I am aware of the builders of Henry english trade rifles, But are there builders of the other trade rifles the lancaster styled that went west with Ashley and Henry before 1830? Would I have to custom order from a reputable riflesmith? please all help and information will be appreciated and put to good use. Thank you all for your time and cooperation Y.M.O.S. Jerry Strobel _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred Subject: MtMan-List: 1831 powder horn info Date: 24 Mar 2001 14:24:50 -0700 I had a phone call last week from a fellow in Idaho (I think). He has a powder horn that he thinks may have belonged to a mountain man. It is a cow horn, and it has a map of Henry's Lake & Perry's Hole; the date 1831; and the motto "If the redskins don't get me, the Devil might." He picked it up for $1 in 1981 or 1982 at a yard sale on the St. Ignatius Reservation. Now, I know next to nothing about powder horns. Does this powder horn sound like it's a genuine antique? Were cow horns used by mountain men? Are they known to have made similar horns? On the other hand, maybe it was made by a buckskinner, and perhaps somebody on this list has seen it or knows something about it. Anyway, I figured there was a chance one of you folks might be able to help this guy, so I'd appreciate any info. He only paid $1 for the horn, so he's not likely to lose any money, regardless of what its origin might be. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1831 powder horn info Date: 24 Mar 2001 17:53:14 EST > I had a phone call last week from a fellow in Idaho (I think). He has a > powder horn that he thinks may have belonged to a mountain man. It is a cow > horn, and it has a map of Henry's Lake & Perry's Hole; the date 1831; and > the motto "If the redskins don't get me, the Devil might." He picked it up > for $1 in 1981 or 1982 at a yard sale on the St. Ignatius Reservation. Angela, He really needs to get to a museum or someone who is well versed in them. They have ways of telling. Many original horns are bringing 5 figures at auction. Lacking provenance and a name, it's value is probably diminished, but not by much; however it is still a treasure if it proves to be original. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1831 powder horn info Date: 24 Mar 2001 19:52:11 EST In a message dated 3/24/1 02:35:35 PM, agottfre@telusplanet.net writes: <> You bet they were!. Many brought cow horns with them and many more were trade items. A rifle and shooting pouch were the companions to most of these men for years before they ever came to the mountains and horns don't wear out that easily. If that horn came off the Res for a dollar, there is a possiblity it is that old. (I bought a whole handful of elk back-strap sinue from a Gosiute for a buck . . . no one there wanted it.) A person would have to look at it (the horn) for style, quality, etc. to make a judgement. One thing to look for is that it was formed by scraping rather than a buffer wheel. I bought a black horn at a gunshow in Burley, Idaho about 20 years ago. The guy wanted $20 - would let it go for $15. He still had it at the end of the show so I got it for ten. It had brass tacks holding the wooden plug in place. For a test I pulled one of them and to my delight it had a square brass shank - not the steel one we see today. The old, OLD tacks were cast in a single piece - all brass, square tapered shank. Conclusion: for ten bucks I had bought an original buffalo-horn powder-horn from the 1800s. So . . . 'tis possible Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1820-1840 Rifle sources? Date: 24 Mar 2001 19:57:30 EST Jerry, I know a gunsmith who builds Deringer rifles on request. Contact me off-line if you're interested. Jim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1820-1840 Rifle sources? Date: 24 Mar 2001 20:40:38 EST Jerry, Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading (TVM@avsia.com) builds a Leman style rifle which is correct for the period. I also know a riflesmith who builds Henry and Deringer guns on request. Not cheap, but the guns are flawless with a capital F. Contact me offlist if you want the info. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Buck Conner Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1831 powder horn info Date: 24 Mar 2001 20:54:26 -0500 (EST) I bought a black horn at a gunshow in Burley, Idaho about 20 years ago. The guy wanted $20 - would let it go for $15. He still had it at the end of the show so I got it for ten. It had brass tacks holding the wooden plug in place. For a test I pulled one of them and to my delight it had a square brass shank - not the steel one we see today. The old, OLD tacks were cast in a single piece - all brass, square tapered shank. Conclusion: for ten bucks I had bought an original buffalo-horn powder-horn from the 1800s. So . . . 'tis possible Richard James ---------------------- Like Dick says, one would have to look at it, but there may be a slim chance it's an old one. There are many stories about folks picking old powder horns at strange places for next to nothing. Concho Smith that's on this list use to buy right-away for the state of Pennsylvaina Highway Dept. and every once in a while would come up with some interesting old horns, tools, guns, etc., usually for next to nothing or nothing. He made a nice side-line business out of this stuff, when I was still in business he was a good supplier for antique items to sell, of course he high graded what he kept, butt head. See if the gentleman will send you some pictures or even loan you the horn for a closer look, interesting. Thanks for your time, take care. Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ "Rival the best - Surpass the rest". ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1831 powder horn info Date: 24 Mar 2001 21:18:34 -0800 Angela, It is real hard to tell about the age of a powder horn. As has been said, square shanked tacks are a indication also whether it has been scaped smooth, and whether the throut has been drilled or burned out. But there are a lot of guys out there who can do all the right things in making a horn that can fool just about anybody. I've seen horns in museums that didn't look right to me. I don't know who you would get to look at it to verify the age of it. Just my $.02 Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Iroquois Date: 24 Mar 2001 21:08:48 -0700 I have of late developed an interest in the Iroquois of the West, the original Free Men. Were these people actually of the five tribes or were they more of a conglomeration of Eastern/Canadian tribes adopted under the Iroquois name? I believe they had a great impact on the fur trade by their experience as hunters, trappers and warriors. How did they dress? (Interestingly, Millers drawing that I have seen of an Iroquois is one of the few men he shows in side seem instead of pucker toed mocs). Did they come West with the English or by many trails? In short, is there any primary or secondary sources that give good details about these people? WY ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Iroquois Date: 25 Mar 2001 00:46:19 EST In a message dated 3/24/1 09:02:57 PM, leona3@sourceoneinternet.com writes: << Did they come West with the English or by many trails?>> They* were caught, as you know, on the losing side in the American Revolution and maintained their allegance to Britain as they had since the earliest conflicts between English and French (who were allied with the Huron and others). Many had been employed for generations by Hudson's Bay and traveled west with them - first across the "Lakes" country and then south into and on both sides of the Rockies. When Peter Ogden has his run in with Johnston Gardner and the other Americans in May 1825 on the Weber River (8 miles east of here) it was largely Iroquois that defected and came over to the Americans. One of the journalists tells of meeting them in the mountans some time later AFTER they had expended all the gains gotten from trading with the Americans on the Weber and on Henry's Fork a month an a half later. Significant also is that these Iroquois were not solitary but brought their wives and youngsters with them. Easy to see how some of the trappers could end up trading for a good pair of pucker-toes. Richard James *they: some - not all ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Buck Conner Subject: MtMan-List: 1831 powderhorns and other questionable items. Date: 25 Mar 2001 10:19:40 -0500 (EST) It is real hard to tell about the age of a powder horn. As has been said, square shanked tacks are a indication also whether it has been scaped smooth, and whether the throut has been drilled or burned out....... There are a lot of guys out there who can do all the right things in making a horn that can fool just about anybody.... Just my $.02 Pendleton ---------------------- Larry, You mentioning folks making hard to detect items (horns, etc.), years ago I let a couple of young adult 1/2 breed Blackfoot kids use an old 2000 sq. ft. fruit storgae bldg. to make Indian crafts - that's when Praire Edge was going hot and heavy. Anyway I was at a museum outside of Denver and see some of their work but in poor condition with a sign of being collected before turn of the century ! A few weeks later I'm changing irrigation pipe down by the creek on our property and see a pair of mocs staked in the water with dirt wasting through them ! I get off the tractor and head up to the fruit bldg and notice another pair of old dirty mocs staked on the tin roof ! Bottom line I was furnishing a work area for a couple of guys making good fake antiques and doing quite well at it. I ran them off and notified the couple of museums I knew about that had their stuff, don't know what they paid for their wares, but was shocked at the museum's staff attitude in telling me "oh well, they are good looking pieces" and they are still on display today after twenty years. How much of the "original" pieces we see are really "original" ? Thanks for your time, take care. Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ "Rival the best - Surpass the rest". ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1831 powder horn info Date: 25 Mar 2001 10:50:17 -0500 can you scan in a few pictures of the horn and drop them to me offline and i'll see if i can tell you anything just from the pictures--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1831 powderhorns and other questionable items. Date: 25 Mar 2001 11:38:37 -0800 Buck wrote : How much of the "original" pieces we see are really "original" ? Buck, That is a real good story about arti-fakes. I think many of today's museum currators are totally unaware that there are many of us who have studied the building techniques of our forefathers close enough that we can construct accoutrements exactly in the manner of the 18th and 19th century. Also, as you said, there are many who don't seem to care if the items they have are real or not, so long as they are of the same construction. I see firearms at almost every museum I go to that do not look right to me. I'm certainly no expert on such things, but I can tell honest wear from deliberate abuse. There is a very large flea market near me where such things are for sale every month. Frankly I think it is a shame. Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Gone Under Date: 25 Mar 2001 18:44:10 EST --part1_da.3c6483d.27efdcca_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This the information upon returning from a Jim Baker Party camp out. Your Friend and Brother Mark "Roadkill" Loader Author Terry C. Johnston died Sunday morning. The funeral is scheduled for 10 a.m., Wednesday, March 28 at the Michelotti, Sawyers and Nordquist Funeral Home, 1001 Alderson Avenue, Billings, Montana (Phone 406 252-3417) Viewing begins at the funeral home 6 p.m., Monday.=A0 Interment will be at Yellowstone Valley Memorial Park, Billings. In lieu of flowers you may donate to the Terry C. Johnston Memorial Scholarship Fund, care of, Montana State University Billings Foundation, 1500 N. 30th St., Billings, MT 59101-0298 Jim Wirshborn msws@msws.net --part1_da.3c6483d.27efdcca_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This the information upon= returning from a Jim Baker Party camp out.
Your Friend and Brother Mark "Roadkill" Loader
Author Terry C. Johnston died Sunday morning.

The funeral is scheduled for 10 a.m., Wednesday, March 28 at the
Michelotti, Sawyers and Nordquist Funeral Home, 1001 Alderson Avenue,
Billings, Montana (Phone 406 252-3417)

Viewing begins at the funeral home 6 p.m., Monday.=A0 Interment will be=20= at
Yellowstone Valley Memorial Park, Billings.

In lieu of flowers you may donate to the Terry C. Johnston Memorial
Scholarship Fund, care of, Montana State University Billings Foundation,
1500 N. 30th St., Billings, MT 59101-0298

Jim Wirshborn
msws@msws.net



--part1_da.3c6483d.27efdcca_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Iroquois Date: 25 Mar 2001 23:12:08 -0600 On Sat, 24 Mar 2001 21:08:48 -0700 "Gretchen Ormond" writes: > I have of late developed an interest in the Iroquois of the West, the > original Free Men....... I believe they had a great impact on the > fur trade by their experience as hunters, trappers and warriors. > How did they dress?... .Did they come West with the English > or by many trails? > ........primary or secondary sources....? >> WY There is quite a bit of data about the Iroquois and their involvement in the fur trade in the first sixty pages of "Children of the Fur Trade, Forgotten Metis of the Pacific Northwest" by John C. Jackson. Of the 52 tribes mentioned is this book, more is written about the Iroquois than any of the other Indian tribes. On page 18, there is a reproduction of a sketch of Baptiste, Iroquois Bowman, 1845-a pencil sketch by H. J. Warre, National Archives of Canada, c-55333. Here's one tidbit of data from page 19: " Because they traditionally traveled afar to hunt, Iroquois attracted the attention of Montreal recruiters shopping for skilled voyageurs, or beaver trappers. Brought to the greater northwest under fur company auspices, Iroquois hunters soon spread over the beaver streams. They became the missionaries of the new gospel of the steel trap and the communion of castoreum baiting. (31) The impact of that technology set Indian against Indian. "Iroquois and Cree hunters found different paths between worlds in collision. The Cree stayed close to the basal exchange, a skin for a skin. The Iroquois were searching for something more. " This book has an extensive bibliography. Victoria ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WSmith4100@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Gone Under Date: 26 Mar 2001 01:33:17 EST --part1_7e.12bffdab.27f03cad_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, Thank you for the update. What a sad sad day, for us anyway. He's in a better more peaceful place now. Like somebody said on the list earlier, maybe God wanted a good storyteller around. The fires will burn a little dimmer around this camp. Will be lookin forward to seein Terry on the other side. Sleeps loudly --part1_7e.12bffdab.27f03cad_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, Thank you for the update.  What a sad sad day, for us anyway.  He's in
a better more peaceful place now.   Like somebody said on the list earlier,  
maybe God wanted a good storyteller around.   The fires will burn a little
dimmer around this camp.   Will be lookin forward to seein Terry on the other
side.

Sleeps loudly


--part1_7e.12bffdab.27f03cad_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: billingsgazette.com archive Date: 26 Mar 2001 05:30:07 -0600 Your friend has forwarded you this URL from the Billings Gazette website: billingsgazette.com archive http://www.billingsgazette.com/archive.php?section=local&display=rednews/2001/03/26/build/local/author.inc Additional Comments: From the Billings,Montana Gazette ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1820-1840 Rifle sources? Date: 26 Mar 2001 06:16:20 -0700 Jerry, Try Bob Lieneman at (303) 466-5693. He makes a very good J. Henry. mike. jerry strobel wrote: > I have a question. Is there not anyone building J. Henry or Henry Deringer > Lancaster(American) styled trade rifles that were shipped west from N.Y. and > Philadelphia? Yes I am aware of the builders of Henry english trade rifles, > But are there builders of the other trade rifles the lancaster styled that > went west with Ashley and Henry before 1830? Would I have to custom order > from a reputable riflesmith? please all help and information will be > appreciated and put to good use. Thank you all for your time and > cooperation Y.M.O.S. Jerry Strobel > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Oak kega Date: 26 Mar 2001 16:49:58 EST In a message dated 3/21/01 8:55:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, kramer@kramerize.com writes: << now when I soak it up I have to shim the bands or they are insufficient to seize the staves, the iron did not stretch. Interesting theory about the wood shrinking. Coming form John it's probably right, but I've found the thin metal bands (hoops) stretch too. When the wood swells up when wet, it puts tremendous pressure on the iron / steel hops. Steel DOES stretch! Be that as it may, the secret of keeping your barrel from leaking is keeping the hoops tight when the barrel is wet. This causes the wood to have to swell against itself, thus sealing the "cracks" between staves. John goes on to suggest tightening the hoops by driving them up the taper of the barrel. This is what Granddad did to his cider & vinegar barrels umpteen years ago. Most hoops have a nail in them somewhere to keep hem from falling off as they stretch & the wood shrinks -- in other words, the nails in the hoops keep the barrels / kegs from falling apart. It's not uncommon to have to remove the nail when tightening the hoop. Don't loose that nail! It's short enough it won't go through the staves. I've often thought that heat shrinking the hoops might be the answer to keeping them where they belong on the barrel. Though I've never come across that being done, the black smiths knew the procedure -- it's the same one they used to put the iron tires on the wagon wheels or to refit a wagon "tire". Maybe the cost of shrinking the bands exceeded the price of a new barrel? Granddad was a black smith, and yet there were numerous piles of barrel staves scattered around his farm -- maybe it didn't work or possibly the stave piles were the result of failed hoops. I do remember a hoop breaking on a vinegar barrel once when I was visiting him -- made a heck of a racket! A friend used to think the trick was put salt in his barrel to keep the water semi fresh. When he was ready to use the barrel, he dumped it, rinsed it out & refilled with fresh water. Nice idea, but the salt rusted his hoops out in about 5 years & left him with a pile of staves. NM ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Huber" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Oak kega Date: 26 Mar 2001 19:54:31 -0800 Coopers were a dime a dozen in the old days. Barrels were the most common kind of shipping material and wood was cheap. Wood cost no more than the effort to collect it. Think of the barrel as cardboard boxes. There wasn't much of an effort to reuse barrels. Usually they went one way and ended up as firewood after they were opened. Seems odd to me but this is what I was told at Williamsburg. Larry Huber ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:49 PM > In a message dated 3/21/01 8:55:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, > kramer@kramerize.com writes: > > << now when I soak it up I have to shim the bands or they are insufficient > to seize the staves, the iron did not stretch. > > Interesting theory about the wood shrinking. Coming form John it's probably > right, but I've found the thin metal bands (hoops) stretch too. When the > wood swells up when wet, it puts tremendous pressure on the iron / steel > hops. Steel DOES stretch! Be that as it may, the secret of keeping your > barrel from leaking is keeping the hoops tight when the barrel is wet. This > causes the wood to have to swell against itself, thus sealing the "cracks" > between staves. John goes on to suggest tightening the hoops by driving them > up the taper of the barrel. This is what Granddad did to his cider & vinegar > barrels umpteen years ago. Most hoops have a nail in them somewhere to keep > hem from falling off as they stretch & the wood shrinks -- in other words, > the nails in the hoops keep the barrels / kegs from falling apart. It's not > uncommon to have to remove the nail when tightening the hoop. Don't loose > that nail! It's short enough it won't go through the staves. I've often > thought that heat shrinking the hoops might be the answer to keeping them > where they belong on the barrel. Though I've never come across that being > done, the black smiths knew the procedure -- it's the same one they used to > put the iron tires on the wagon wheels or to refit a wagon "tire". Maybe the > cost of shrinking the bands exceeded the price of a new barrel? Granddad was > a black smith, and yet there were numerous piles of barrel staves scattered > around his farm -- maybe it didn't work or possibly the stave piles were the > result of failed hoops. I do remember a hoop breaking on a vinegar barrel > once when I was visiting him -- made a heck of a racket! A friend used to > think the trick was put salt in his barrel to keep the water semi fresh. > When he was ready to use the barrel, he dumped it, rinsed it out & refilled > with fresh water. Nice idea, but the salt rusted his hoops out in about 5 > years & left him with a pile of staves. > > NM > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: MtMan-List: question for clay landry Date: 26 Mar 2001 22:47:22 -0700 in your article in the b.o.b.#7 on clothing of the rocky mt. trapper 1820 to 1840 you mention fabrics used for legwear as being duck, denim, fustian,wool, and tow. I'm particularly interested in denim. I read somewhere that denim is short for "Dennimes France", it's place of origin. how long has denim been around? Is the modern day denim used in say, Levi's the same as the old? I've noticed in miller paintings, he shows his subject wearing light blue trousers. could these be made of faded indigo blue denim? if modern denim is the same, would a pair of indigo denim, "fall front" trousers be appropriate? respectfully; Tom Ballstaedt ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Buck Conner Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Oak kega Date: 27 Mar 2001 07:41:04 -0500 (EST) Coopers were a dime a dozen in the old days. Barrels were the most common kind of shipping material and wood was cheap. Wood cost no more than the effort to collect it. Think of the barrel as cardboard boxes. There wasn't much of an effort to reuse barrels. Usually they went one way and ended up as firewood after they were opened. Seems odd to me but this is what I was told at Williamsburg. Larry Huber ------------------------- Early barrels had the wooden rings and later ones had the iron rings which became tools and weapons after the wood was gone for the Native American according to many accounts on westward movement, that must be where we get the throw away attitude - from our forefathers ! FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Traphand@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Oak kega Date: 27 Mar 2001 07:58:35 EST what I have used for a small leak is fine powder cinnamon.fill the keg with water add the cinnamon say about a handful put it unto the keg As the water leaks out the cinnamon flowing on top of the water finds the spot it is leaking from and plugs the leak.Empty water and refill. Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: Iroquois Date: 27 Mar 2001 07:12:07 -0600 Just to set the record straight (from the Iroquois perspective) this is the history of my people (speaking as a Seneca): At the time when the Dutch landed (first) in New England, the Five Nations (and many others) already had extensive trade routes crossing the continent. The Iroquois aligned themselves with the Dutch (as exclusive distributors, to use today's terms). Mean while, to the north, the French had established on the St. Lawrence River and had trading relations with the more northerly tribes (Huron, Ottawa, etc.) There was a long standing and bloody rivalry between the French allies and the Dutch allies. When the British came to New York, Albany became the main political centre for the new British/Iroquois alliance. At the time of the American revolution, the Five Nations had had a very long-standing relationship with the British (from about 1600) and the decision split the Five Nations for the first time ever. (The Great League of Peace is deemed to have been established around 1400, as near as anyone can determine.) The Council Fire at Onondaga was extinguished (for the first time ever) and a large number of People moved north of Niagara and the St. Lawrence to fight for the British. Some of the People remained neutral and refused to fight. Others of the League fought for the Americans. Unfortunately, when it was all over, neither the British nor the Americans made any significant provisions in the peace treaty for their Five Nations allies. The Council Fire at Onandaga was not re-lit nor was the rift in the Five Nations fully healed for almost 100 years. As to Iroquois in the west, my people spoke of Iroquois traders having been to the Pacific before whitemen. It is said that Cook met an Iroquois among the coastal Natives when he landed on the west coast. That is what is said. That is the history as it is remembered by my people. Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ALAN AVERY" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Oak kega Date: 27 Mar 2001 09:35:57 -0800 I have also used this method, and it seems to work well. As a bonus, the cinnamon leaves an agreeable taste in the water! Black Knife Alan Avery -----Original Message----- what I have used for a small leak is fine powder cinnamon.fill the keg with water add the cinnamon say about a handful put it unto the keg As the water leaks out the cinnamon flowing on top of the water finds the spot it is leaking from and plugs the leak.Empty water and refill. Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clay J. Landry" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question for clay landry Date: 27 Mar 2001 21:46:42 -0700 According to Montgomery's book on textiles in America denim was used and available in the 1700's. I have seen references to gray, brown and blue denim in the trade ledgers of the American Fur Company. In 1989 at Montana Centennial Rendezvous I was fortunate enough to attend Bill Brown's (US Park Service-historic clothing expert) talk on period clothing. Bill had a several shirts from the 1800's and a most interesting pair of pantaloons and matching coat-both made from blue denim!! Bill had discovered these articles inside an old sofa being used as stuffing!! He determined that these items were from the early 1800's. The denim that we see in Levis is somewhat different from the denim I saw in these original pieces-the weave was not as tight as Levis and the yarn was of larger diameter causing the fabric to be somewhat fuller and softer than Levi denim. Bill said that many original denims were also a wool blend. A blue wool/ denim fabric called "Country cloth"-purchased from Charlie Childs in Ohio is a very good replication of the old denim/wool blend according to Bill. I have also purchased plain white denim at fabric stores and dyed it gray or brown-after dying and washing these fabrics very closely resemble the texture and feel of the originals. I am not sure what Miller was depicting in his paintings of blue leg wear-as blue wool pantaloons were also very popular and very common by the 1830's but to answer your question-yes- blue Indigo denim pantaloons-fall front- can be documented as available and used by men of the Fur trade. Clay Landry Moorhead MT ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 10:47 PM > in your article in the b.o.b.#7 on clothing of the rocky mt. trapper 1820 to > 1840 you mention fabrics used for legwear as being duck, denim, > fustian,wool, and tow. I'm particularly interested in denim. I read > somewhere that denim is short for "Dennimes France", it's place of origin. > how long has denim been around? Is the modern day denim used in say, Levi's > the same as the old? I've noticed in miller paintings, he shows his subject > wearing light blue trousers. could these be made of faded indigo blue denim? > if modern denim is the same, would a pair of indigo denim, "fall front" > trousers be appropriate? > respectfully; Tom Ballstaedt > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Denim Date: 28 Mar 2001 14:47:25 EST --part1_a2.1219e4da.27f399cd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > < fabric called "Country cloth"-purchased from Charlie Childs in Ohio is a > very good replication of the old denim/wool blend according to Bill. I > have also purchased plain white denim at fabric stores and dyed it gray or > brown-after dying >> A word of warning if you choose to use denim, which I agree existed and was used earlier than most think. I had a pair of drop front breeches made for me by a top name sutler out of stock brown denum/canvas and got nothing but grief from my so called buddies. Only by stopping use of them did I escape a camp name of "Carhartts". If you choose to wear blue denim you will get constant questions about documentation and such from the strict historical stitch counters and some events may tell you (based on their research) that they are not acceptable at the event. Now I'm not saying don't do it if you are sure of your history and documentation, I'm just saying that I found redyeing my breeches in summac and iron to change the color made life easier around the camp. It took less time to dye the fabric then it would have to educate the 1,000's of reinactors and public. Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes --part1_a2.1219e4da.27f399cd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<<that many original denims were also a wool blend. A  blue wool/ denim
fabric called "Country cloth"-purchased from Charlie Childs in Ohio is a
very good replication of the old denim/wool blend according to Bill.  I
have also purchased plain white denim at fabric stores and dyed it gray or
brown-after dying >>


A word of warning if you choose to use denim, which I agree existed and was
used earlier than most think.  I had a pair of drop front breeches made for
me by a top name sutler out of stock brown denum/canvas and got nothing but
grief from my so called buddies.  Only by stopping use of them did I escape a
camp name of "Carhartts".  If you choose to wear blue denim you will get
constant questions about documentation and such from the strict historical
stitch counters and some events may tell you (based on their research) that
they are not acceptable at the event.  

Now I'm not saying don't do it if you are sure of your history and
documentation, I'm just saying that I found redyeing my breeches in summac
and iron to change the color made life easier around the camp.  It took less
time to dye the fabric then it would have to educate the 1,000's of
reinactors and public.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes --part1_a2.1219e4da.27f399cd_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Denim Date: 28 Mar 2001 13:34:28 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0B78B.D0375C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If I was the type that listened to the trendy popular OPINION of my = contemporaries. I would not be in this hobby. IF I make myself a cool = pair of denim trousers, let em talk. see ya on the trail; Tom Oh and by the way, many thanks to Clay for the good imformation ----- Original Message -----=20 From: CTOAKES@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:47 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Denim <> A word of warning if you choose to use denim, which I agree existed = and was=20 used earlier than most think. I had a pair of drop front breeches = made for=20 me by a top name sutler out of stock brown denum/canvas and got = nothing but=20 grief from my so called buddies. Only by stopping use of them did I = escape a=20 camp name of "Carhartts". If you choose to wear blue denim you will = get=20 constant questions about documentation and such from the strict = historical=20 stitch counters and some events may tell you (based on their research) = that=20 they are not acceptable at the event. =20 Now I'm not saying don't do it if you are sure of your history and=20 documentation, I'm just saying that I found redyeing my breeches in = summac=20 and iron to change the color made life easier around the camp. It = took less=20 time to dye the fabric then it would have to educate the 1,000's of=20 reinactors and public.=20 Y.M.O.S.=20 C.T. Oakes=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0B78B.D0375C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If I was the type that listened = to the trendy=20 popular OPINION of my contemporaries.  I would not be in this=20 hobby.  IF I make myself a cool pair of denim = trousers,  let=20 em talk.
see ya on the trail; Tom
Oh and by the way, many thanks to = Clay for the=20 good imformation
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 CTOAKES@aol.com=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 = 12:47=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Denim


<<that many original denims were also a wool = blend. A=20  blue wool/ denim
fabric called "Country cloth"-purchased = from=20 Charlie Childs in Ohio is a
very good replication of the old = denim/wool=20 blend according to Bill.  I
have also purchased plain white = denim=20 at fabric stores and dyed it gray or
brown-after dying=20 >>

A word of warning if you choose to use = denim,=20 which I agree existed and was
used earlier than most think. =  I had a=20 pair of drop front breeches made for
me by a top name sutler out = of stock=20 brown denum/canvas and got nothing but
grief from my so called = buddies.=20  Only by stopping use of them did I escape a
camp name of=20 "Carhartts".  If you choose to wear blue denim you will get =
constant=20 questions about documentation and such from the strict historical =
stitch=20 counters and some events may tell you (based on their research) that =
they=20 are not acceptable at the event.  

Now I'm not saying = don't do it=20 if you are sure of your history and
documentation, I'm just saying = that I=20 found redyeing my breeches in summac
and iron to change the color = made=20 life easier around the camp.  It took less
time to dye the = fabric=20 then it would have to educate the 1,000's of
reinactors and = public.=20

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes = ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0B78B.D0375C00-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Cache Valley Date: 28 Mar 2001 21:13:33 -0700 In recent months I read the first couple installments of Ferris’s “Life. . . “ He claimed: On the sixteenth, I departed with Mr. Dripps and three others for Cache Valley. . . . This valley, called also by some, the Willow Valley, is situated about thirty miles due west of the Little Lake, from which the passage is so nearly impracticable, that it requires two days to perform the distance - at least by the route we came. It lies parallel with the Little Lake, extending nearly north and south; is sixty miles long, and fifteen to twenty broad, and is shut in on every side by lofty mountains. Numerous willow-skirted streams, that intersect and diversify it, unite and flow into Bear River, which crosses the valley, and after cutting its way through a low bald mountain, falls into the Big Lake, distant twenty miles to the west. Cache Valley is abundantly fertile, producing every where most excellent grass, and has ever for that reason, been a favorite resort for both men and animals, especially in the winter. Indeed, many of the best hunters assert that the weather is much milder here than elsewhere, which is an additional inducement for visiting it during that inclement season. . . . . In this country, the nights are cold at any season, and the climate perhaps more healthy than that of any other part of the globe. The atmosphere is delightful, and so pure and clear, that a person of good sight has been known to distinguish an Indian from a white man, at a distance of more than a mile, and herds of buffalo may be recognized by the aid of a good glass, at even fifteen to eighteen miles. (Ferris 2 pg 3) After reading a recommendation like that I loaded up the ramuda and moved to Cache Valley. I love it here but even with modern binocs I cannot make out the buffalo anywhere! At any rate, with the move came a new internet provider. I see that my post requesting info on the Iroquois left some confused about who I am. Well the new e-mail address is changed to as above and it may take awhile till I figure out how to get this thing to send under my name instead of my wife’s so I reckon I better start putting whole name at the end instead my intial. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Nickel Plating Date: 28 Mar 2001 21:16:38 -0700 Is there a way to remove the nickel plating off metal in order to make an item look more period correct? Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nickel Plating Date: 28 Mar 2001 22:24:35 -0600 Is there a way to remove the nickel plating off metal in order to make an item look more period correct? Wynn Ormond Wynn........Don't leave us hanging!! What plunder do you have that is nickel plated that would look more period correct without the plating? Lanney Ratcliff ps: German silver (copper, zinc and nickel) is said by the Miriam Webster Dictionary to be ca: 1830. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nickel Plating Date: 28 Mar 2001 22:30:54 -0600 Is there a way to remove the nickel plating off metal in order to make an item look more period correct? Wynn Ormond Wynn Check out this site for one answer to your question. Sounds like a job for a pro. Lanney http://iams.org/iamsorg/p2iris/metalfinish/1071-s.htm ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nickel Plating Date: 28 Mar 2001 21:37:26 -0700 if the plating is on a buckle or something trivial I heat it up to a cherry red with my torch then put it aside to cool the plating is still there when its cool but it turns to a nice grayish brown color. Tom ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 9:16 PM > Is there a way to remove the nickel plating off metal in order to make > an item look more period correct? > > Wynn Ormond > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover Subject: MtMan-List: Denim for Tom Date: 27 Mar 2001 21:50:11 -0700 Tom, I happen to have a LARGE roll of white denim which I think would work nicely for what you may be after. You're welcome to come get some. "Teton" Todd D. Glover http://homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nickel Plating Date: 29 Mar 2001 01:00:28 EST In a message dated 3/28/01 8:10:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, leona3@sourceoneinternet.com writes: << Is there a way to remove the nickel plating >> Wynn, Here's some methods I'm aware of: Chemical Stripping, using a mixture of Hydrogen Peroxide and Cyanide which is EXTREMELY toxic and causes a violent chemical reaction. In effect, this burns the plating off. Electro Stripping, using a transformer, anodes of the proper material and chemical solutions (most are also Cyanide based) which use current in reverse polarity from the plating operation. In effect, this UNplates the object. Polishing, using a bench grinder and polishing wheel impregnated with Tripoli (mild) or Bobbing (aggressive) Compound, effectively rubbing the plating off. If you want info and material to do the job yourself, check with a jewelers supply house. If you want to get around the problem of doing it yourself, check with local plating houses, like bumper repair places, or commercial furniture strippers; many that do furniture will also do metal. I have found that the platers and strippers will sometimes throw a small piece in with another job they are doing, and the cost turns out to be nominal. Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cache Valley Date: 29 Mar 2001 01:16:45 EST In a message dated 3/28/1 09:07:49 PM, leona3@sourceoneinternet.com writes: " . . .After reading a recommendation like that I loaded up the ramuda and moved to Cache Valley. I love it here . . . . I see that my post requesting= =20 info on the Iroquois left some confused about who I am. Well the new e-mai= l=20 address is changed to as above and it may take awhile till I figure out how=20 to get this thing to send under my name instead of my wife=92s so I reckon I= =20 better start putting whole name . . . ." Dang! that really messes things up! I already know three Wynns, I thought I= =20 finally knew a real live Gretchen - the only live one I know of - in or out=20 of Cache Valley (50 miles north of here). Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nickel Plating Date: 29 Mar 2001 01:18:19 EST In a message dated 3/28/1 09:10:43 PM, leona3@sourceoneinternet.com writes: <> Wynn / Gretchen- Nitric acid. Come on down and I'll give you some. Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) Date: 29 Mar 2001 09:21:41 -0700 C.T. Oakes wrote: >If you choose to wear blue denim you will get constant questions about >documentation and such from the strict historical stitch counters and some >events may tell you (based on their research) >that they are not acceptable at the event. I have no problems with people asking for documentation on clothing, etc. Indeed, if I wore certain things, I'd expect to be asked, and come prepared. But here is an example of something that really bugs me: >I had a pair of drop front breeches made for me by a top name sutler out >of stock brown denum/canvas and got nothing but grief from my so called >buddies. Only by stopping use of them did I escape a camp name of >"Carhartts" ... redyeing my breeches in summac and iron to change the >color made life easier around the camp. WHY do so many people in this 'fun hobby' of ours get _their_ fun by teasing others? I *know* that such teasing has driven many people out of camp permanently. As you can guess, I've been on the receiving end, and I still can't understand why we shoot ourselves in the foot this way. We often wonder how we can get more people into this great hobby of ours. Well, if we all stopped the juvenile teasing that would be more suitable for a Boy Scout camp than a camp of fully-grown adults, we just might find that we keep the folks we *do* manage to recruit. (Whoops-- I apologize to the Boy Scouts for unjustly comparing them with some of the bozos I've dealt with.) If you've done it in the past, why not see if you can go the whole summer *without* doing it? I know it can become a bad habit, hard to break, but think of how much we could all gain. Your very humble & most obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1831 powder horn info Date: 29 Mar 2001 09:20:58 -0700 Thank you very much, gentlemen, for the info on the powder horn. I'll pass it along to the powder horn's owner. Your very humble & most obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Iroquois Date: 29 Mar 2001 09:21:45 -0700 Here's a good article on the early history of Iroquois in the western fur trade: Nicks, Trudy. 'The Iroquois and the Fur Trade in Western Canada', in Old Trails & New Directions : Papers of the Third North American Fur Trade Conference. Carol M. Judd and Arthur J. Ray, eds. University of Toronto Press : Toronto, 1978. To summarize (from memory): In Canada c. 1800 , the fur trade was conducted by trading furs with the Natives. Very little trapping was done by fur company employees. However, in some areas the resident Natives showed very little interest in trapping the furs that were in demand, and so the first Iroquois (Mohawks) came west as free trappers. Sometimes this was pre-approved by the resident Natives, so that there would be no perception of 'trespassing' by the Iroquois. They paddled the canoes west with the other voyageurs, and then were free to hunt and trap on their own account over the winter, and trade with the company like the resident Natives. As time went by, tensions with some Native groups grew, which led to a bloody massacre of Iroquois just outside an HBC fur post (Chesterfield House, near modern Medicine Hat, Alberta) in 1802 (if I recall correctly;-) and the withdrawal of all fur traders from that area. Today there are Iroquois settlements in N. Alberta, in the Grande Cache region. As I was sorting through my unfiled notes, I found this quote by Colin Robertson of the HBC in 1818. He'd just gone through a rather harrowing moment on Lake Superior: "I have frequently heard the Canadian and Iroquois voyageurs disputed as regards their merits, perhaps the former may be more hardy or undergo more fatigue, but in either a rapid or a traverse, give me the latter, from their calmness and prescence of mind which never forsakes them in the greatest danger." (Robertson, 56) George Simpson, who became the head of the HBC just a few years later, must have agreed with Robertson, since he was said to man his personal express canoe solely with Iroquois voyageurs. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ALAN AVERY" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) Date: 29 Mar 2001 09:33:36 -0800 I could not agree more. As a group, we should not squabble among ourselves. Hell, if gun owners up here in Canada had not been so divided, we would not have gun registration! ...climbing down off my soapbox now... Black Knife Alan Avery -----Original Message----- >C.T. Oakes wrote: >>If you choose to wear blue denim you will get constant questions about >>documentation and such from the strict historical stitch counters and some >>events may tell you (based on their research) >>that they are not acceptable at the event. > >I have no problems with people asking for documentation on clothing, etc. >Indeed, if I wore certain things, I'd expect to be asked, and come >prepared. But here is an example of something that really bugs me: > > >>I had a pair of drop front breeches made for me by a top name sutler out >>of stock brown denum/canvas and got nothing but grief from my so called >>buddies. Only by stopping use of them did I escape a camp name of >>"Carhartts" ... redyeing my breeches in summac and iron to change the >>color made life easier around the camp. > >WHY do so many people in this 'fun hobby' of ours get _their_ fun by >teasing others? I *know* that such teasing has driven many people out of >camp permanently. As you can guess, I've been on the receiving end, and I >still can't understand why we shoot ourselves in the foot this way. We >often wonder how we can get more people into this great hobby of ours. >Well, if we all stopped the juvenile teasing that would be more suitable >for a Boy Scout camp than a camp of fully-grown adults, we just might find >that we keep the folks we *do* manage to recruit. (Whoops-- I apologize to >the Boy Scouts for unjustly comparing them with some of the bozos I've >dealt with.) > >If you've done it in the past, why not see if you can go the whole summer >*without* doing it? I know it can become a bad habit, hard to break, but >think of how much we could all gain. > >Your very humble & most obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred > > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nickel Plating Date: 29 Mar 2001 15:05:13 -0600 Lanney, My big Webster's also attributes "German Silver" to circa 1820-1830. My 1828 does not mention same. Charles Hanson in one of the Museum of The Fur Trade Quarterlies 15 to 20 years back had an article that I remember as dating "German Silver" aka "Nickel Silver" (circa 1855 to 1860 per Webster's) as not alloyed earlier than 1850. I've not found references to it in anything earlier than Mr. Hanson turned up. John... At 10:24 PM 3/28/01 -0600, you wrote: >ps: German silver (copper, zinc and nickel) is said by the Miriam Webster >Dictionary to be ca: 1830. Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 20:18:34 -0600 Date: 29 Mar 2001 19:17:55 -0700 Does anybody know what became of Jim Bridger's armor? Lanney Ratcliff ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) Date: 29 Mar 2001 22:18:27 EST In a message dated 3/29/01 11:32:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, agottfre@telusplanet.net writes: << if we all stopped the juvenile teasing that would be more suitable for a Boy Scout camp than a camp of fully-grown adults, >> Amen. Lots of newcomers feel a little intimidated and some "experienced" folk know this and monopolize on it! As a student of the human psyche, I see it as very much as an ego defense of some sort! Still, there are lots of good folks out there who help a newcomer along very well. I must give credit to Dan L, Tom C, Ken P. and others here in the southeast that have been a wonderful source of wisdom and help in my getting started! I took a 15 year old kid who is pretty good at heart but had an idea he was too "cool" for that "make believe" stuff. Thanks to some good exposure to nice folks he is showing an early interest! There are some good ones out there! For what it is worth, -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Nickel Plating Date: 29 Mar 2001 22:47:14 -0700 Lanney wrote: Wynn........Don't leave us hanging!! What plunder do you have that is nickel plated that would look more period correct without the plating? Nothing to exciting. I want to try the English irons (stirrups). Everyone wonders if they will be hard on mocassined feet, but I said “That’s what they used to use and there is one way to find out.” Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charlie Webb Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Teasing--a rant Date: 30 Mar 2001 10:35:09 -0700 Three Cheers and a hardy Hoooorah for Angela, I have long wished that the experts and hivernants could/would show more understanding and compassion for those who are trying to do it right, but simply lack the experience, time, and perhaps the desire to acquire the necessary knowledge for an accurate portrayal. I am sure that some folks really don't give a hoot weather their outfit is as accurately portrayed as it possibly could be, perhaps they don't wish to bother with the discipline necessary to do their own research. What ever the reason, some folks do it right, others try to do it right and then there are those that want to play the game, but wish to play it their own way, bending existing rules as well as creating new ones that seem to aid in justifying their existence. My heartfelt wish would be that "those who do it right" would be more willing to share their experience and knowledge with "those who try" and especially those that want to play the game but simply don't understand the why's and how's. I belive that fewer good people (families) would be driven away if the hazing teasing etc. ended and more understanding and compassion was shown them. Perhaps we might even convert a few of those who don't give a hoot. On a personal note, I have been playing our game a long time, I have done years of research, traveled the historical trails, visited rendezvous sites, trapped beaver, foraged ( that is what we used to do before the term trekking was created.) and have worked hard on various outfits trying to be accurate in my own portrayals. BUT alas, I still haven't got it perfect! However with the hivernants help maybe someday. Respectfully. Charlie Webb WHY do so many people in this 'fun hobby' of ours get _their_ fun by > > teasing others? I *know* that such teasing has driven many people > out of > camp permanently. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Teasing--a rant Date: 30 Mar 2001 13:07:44 -0500 May I?? Personally, if you want to do it right and have a yearning to know & learn.. FANDAMNTASTIC!! I will bend over backwards for you (as will anyone that is serious about this that I know) , no matter what your research level, experience, whatever... If you don't care for whatever reason and are happy with what you are doing at whatever research level (or none).. Again, GREAT! Have at it! Invite me over for a cool one under your awning and such, and I will accept, gratefully.. And I'll share what I have with you. BUT, if you are in this latter group,don't ask me a question about gear, your outfit, your accouterments &ct., then get pissed when I give you honest answers.. IF I am asked, I will answer honestly. And I won't whitewash.. If it is something I don't know, I will answer the same.. "I don't know" I have found that alot of the more vocal latter group are the ones that use the words, nazi, elitist. snob & a few others pretty liberally.. Also, keep it in mind, no reason to get nasty when you get a rejection letter to a juried event... The jury committee are not nazi's either (although I suspect some fascists in the group) They are going by their guidelines, which generally are backed up with ALLOT of solid documentation.And don't get all indignant and mad when you show up at the gate to a juried event clad head to toe in chrometan, painter pants and other scary shiny stuff just to "visit & walk around" this will blow the "illusion" of the period for the participants faster than anything I know of. If there is a visitor day, come in street clothes, enjoy and mebby learn.. You will find that these folk ain't all that bad.. No one will make fun or "tease" you for your questions.(even if you DO look funny). And as matter of my experience, if you are at a doins that let most anything fly, the ones that are truly trying to do it "right" and are not going to tease you either. At least with the bunch of mild mannered, deeply thoughtful Gentlemen I generally find myself surrounded by.. It is a two way street,, folks.. And don't forget it. Thanks D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Teasing--a rant Date: 30 Mar 2001 11:04:22 -0800 D, Wow! I'm impressed D on your presentation here. Have you had a life altering experience? Seriously, I really don't see that much if any razzing going on in "public" circles and not that much in private intimate circles. There are bound to be a few people who can't help themselves and make disparaging remarks but for the most part I see the more experienced folks either eager to share their hard won knowledge or quietly keeping their "opinions" to themselves. So, D, what do you wear around your neck? I wear a black silk scarf. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 10:07 AM | May I?? | Personally, if you want to do it right and have a yearning to know & | learn.. FANDAMNTASTIC!! I will bend over backwards for you (as will anyone | that is serious about this that I know) , no matter what your research | level, experience, whatever... If you don't care for whatever reason and | are happy with what you are doing at whatever research level (or none).. | Again, GREAT! Have at it! Invite me over for a cool one under your awning | and such, and I will accept, gratefully.. And I'll share what I have with | you. BUT, if you are in this latter group,don't ask me a question about | gear, your outfit, your accouterments &ct., then get pissed when I give you | honest answers.. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Teasing--a rant Date: 30 Mar 2001 14:03:17 -0500 Capt... Have you had a life altering experience? >>Nah.. Too much coal smoke this week.. So, D, what do you wear around your neck? I wear a black silk scarf. >>Me too... Also a "remembrence" bead made by a Brother for those that were closest to a fella that left us to soon to hunt beaver in that valley where they jump up and say "take me, Bill Tyler.." D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WSmith4100@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Teasing--a rant Date: 30 Mar 2001 22:41:15 EST --part1_10.ae2974a.27f6abdb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis(and others), I appreciate your comments, as well as your committment. I am one of those "newbies", who is trying to listen and learn, look and glean as much info as possible. Trust me, I would love to have the time, resources and finances to be able to show up in braintain with a Charleville musket or other period correct smokepole cradled in my arms. My hat is off to those of you who do. By the way I am jealous as hell of all of you who do. Maybe someday I'll be able to, but for now, I have my little carbine .54 "nipple hugger" that I got for Xmas from my pa. Hope to make meat with it someday. If'n I do, D your invited for a big slab and an ice cold one. P.S. gonna try and brain tan a hide this year. wish me luck I know I will need it Keep yer powder dry and your backtrail in sight. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Wade "Sleeps Loudly" Smith Boise, ID --part1_10.ae2974a.27f6abdb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis(and others), I appreciate your comments, as well as your committment.  
I am one of those "newbies", who  is trying to listen and learn, look and
glean as much info as possible.  Trust me, I would love to have the time,
resources and finances to be able to show up in braintain with a Charleville
musket or other period correct smokepole cradled in my arms.  My hat is off
to those of you who do. By the way I am jealous as hell of all of you who do.
 Maybe someday I'll be able to, but for now, I have my little carbine .54
"nipple hugger" that I got for Xmas from my pa.  Hope to make meat with it
someday.  If'n I do, D your invited for a big slab and an ice cold one.  

P.S.
    gonna try and brain tan a hide this year.  wish me luck  I know I will
need it  Keep yer powder dry and your backtrail in sight.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Wade "Sleeps Loudly" Smith
Boise, ID --part1_10.ae2974a.27f6abdb_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Buck Conner Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Teasing--a rant Date: 31 Mar 2001 10:40:09 -0500 (EST) ------Original Message------ May I?? Personally, if you want to do it right and have a yearning to know & learn.. FANDAMNTASTIC!! I will bend over backwards for you (as will anyone that is serious about this that I know) , no matter what your research level, experience, whatever... If you don't care for whatever reason and are happy with what you are doing at whatever research level (or none)..Again, GREAT! Have at it! Invite me over for a cool one under your awning and such, and I will accept, gratefully.. And I'll share what I have with you. BUT, if you are in this latter group,don't ask me a question about gear, your outfit, your accouterments &ct., then get pissed when I give you honest answers.. IF I am asked, I will answer honestly. And I won't whitewash.. If it is something I don't know, I will answer the same.. "I don't know" I have found that alot of the more vocal latter group are the ones that use the words, nazi, elitist. snob & a few others pretty liberally.. Also, keep it in mind, no reason to get nasty when you get a rejection letter to a juried event... The jury committee are not nazi's either (although I suspect some fascists in the group) They are going by their guidelines, which generally are backed up with ALLOT of solid documentation.And don't get all indignant and mad when you show up at the gate to a juried event clad head to toe in chrometan, painter pants and other scary shiny stuff just to "visit & walk around" this will blow the "illusion" of the period for the participants faster than anything I know of. If there is a visitor day, come in street clothes, enjoy and mebby learn.. You will find that these folk ain't all that bad.. No one will make fun or "tease" you for your questions.(even if you DO look funny). And as matter of my experience, if you are at a doins that let most anything fly, the ones that are truly trying to do it "right" and are not going to tease you either. At least with the bunch of mild mannered, deeply thoughtful Gentlemen I generally find myself surrounded by.. It is a two way street,, folks.. And don't forget it. Thanks D ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Very well put "Kid", If your not willing to listen and learn, make some changes or whatever is need, then don't go around crying, that's usually when yee will get the crap (you started it now suffer). Many don't want to go any deeper than where they are in this thing called "living history" that's fine, those that do, that's fine also. Remember how your folks would always tell you "you get out what you put in, in life" same applies with this experience. When I started Clark & Sons Merc. it was for just this reason, many would spend the time and money with researching their equipage and then short themselves when in camp eating non period edibles. They where not experiencing the total picture, C&SM gave them the options to get period correct foods for their time period, along with documentated cookwares, get the idea (now they're getting closer to what life was like). For many they are not interested in this depth, that's fine, I like to hear "Classical" music sometimes when at a period settlement, but wouldn't go to an opera, that's my business, like those only wanting to stay at the level where they are, their business. Let's move on, this ones been talked about so many times and has become nothing more than a "pissing match". Thanks for your time, take care. Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ "Rival the best - Surpass the rest". ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MtM New book Fur Tade Routes Date: 31 Mar 2001 11:57:28 EST --part1_b4.13838b21.27f76678_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This a book review passed on to me by Jim Wirshborn thought some of you migh= t=20 be interested.=20 Stay out of the Rut=20 Roadkill Exploring the Fur Trade Routes of North America By=A0 Barbara Huck Jerry Kautz Kautz Photography & Design P. O. Box 481 Nanton, Alberta, Canada TOL 1R0 Phone:=A0 403 646-2099 Email:=A0 vkautz@telusplanet.net Heartland Publications, Inc., P. O. Box 103, RPO Corydon, Winnipeg, Manitoba= ,=20 Canada R3M 3S7 Phone:=A0 204 475-7720 Fax:=A0 204 453-3615 Email:=A0 hrtland@mts.net Retail:=A0 $19.95 US 24.95 Canadian Exploring the Fur Trade Routes of North America is much more than a guideboo= k=20 with driving directions to 100 fur trade sites in North America as indicated= =20 in its subtitle. The book follows the story of the fur trade from its inception in eastern=20 North America in the 1500's through the time of the Rocky Mountain, Pacific=20 coast and high plains trade of the 1800s. While covering much on the Canadian side of the border, Great Lakes, Missour= i=20 River, the U. S. Rockies and the U. S. Pacific Northwest receive a similar=20 treatment as their Canadian counterparts. There is not a page in the book without a photograph, sketch, color map, or=20 color reproduction of art work from the fur trade era.=A0 In deed, if one=20 bought this book just for the photos and the art reproduction one would not=20 be disappointed in the least. Concerning the maps, there are numerous overview maps and thumbnail maps=20 throughout the book that help locate the sites in the text narrative. For scholars of the fur trade there may be disappointment in that the book=20 has no footnotes and only a "suggested" reading list=A0 in lieu of a=20 bibliography but the book was not intended to be a scholarly work. In addition to providing driving instructions to historical fur trade sites,= =20 the book includes locations of museum's dealing in the fur trade subject=20 matter. If ever there is a second edition of this publication it should include the=20 Museum of the Mountain Man in Pinedale, WY as an important visit in the ques= t=20 for knowledge about the fur trade. There is no hard cover edition to this publication. For ordering information individuals and dealers make contact with Jerry=20 Kautz at the above address. Wirshborn 08/10/2000 --part1_b4.13838b21.27f76678_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This a book review passed= on to me by Jim Wirshborn thought some of you might=20
be interested.=20
Stay out of the Rut=20
Roadkill

Exploring the Fur Trade Routes of North America
By=A0 Barbara Huck

Jerry Kautz
Kautz Photography & Design
P. O. Box 481
Nanton, Alberta, Canada TOL 1R0
Phone:=A0 403 646-2099
Email:=A0 vkautz@telusplanet.net

Heartland Publications, Inc., P. O. Box 103, RPO Corydon, Winnipeg, Mani= toba,=20
Canada R3M 3S7
Phone:=A0 204 475-7720
Fax:=A0 204 453-3615
Email:=A0 hrtland@mts.net

Retail:=A0 $19.95 US 24.95 Canadian


Exploring the Fur Trade Routes of North America is much more than a guid= ebook=20
with driving directions to 100 fur trade sites in North America as indic= ated=20
in its subtitle.

The book follows the story of the fur trade from its inception in easter= n=20
North America in the 1500's through the time of the Rocky Mountain, Paci= fic=20
coast and high plains trade of the 1800s.

While covering much on the Canadian side of the border, Great Lakes, Mis= souri=20
River, the U. S. Rockies and the U. S. Pacific Northwest receive a simil= ar=20
treatment as their Canadian counterparts.

There is not a page in the book without a photograph, sketch, color map,= or=20
color reproduction of art work from the fur trade era.=A0 In deed, if on= e=20
bought this book just for the photos and the art reproduction one would=20= not=20
be disappointed in the least.

Concerning the maps, there are numerous overview maps and thumbnail maps= =20
throughout the book that help locate the sites in the text narrative.

For scholars of the fur trade there may be disappointment in that the bo= ok=20
has no footnotes and only a "suggested" reading list=A0 in lieu of a=20
bibliography but the book was not intended to be a scholarly work.

In addition to providing driving instructions to historical fur trade si= tes,=20
the book includes locations of museum's dealing in the fur trade subject= =20
matter.

If ever there is a second edition of this publication it should include=20= the=20
Museum of the Mountain Man in Pinedale, WY as an important visit in the=20= quest=20
for knowledge about the fur trade.

There is no hard cover edition to this publication.

For ordering information individuals and dealers make contact with Jerry= =20
Kautz at the above address.
Wirshborn
08/10/2000










--part1_b4.13838b21.27f76678_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: Battlepass Event, Wyoming July 14-22 Date: 31 Mar 2001 11:59:39 -0800 Listed for your viewing pleasure is an event passed on to me via email. -----------------------------------------------------------------------= - HISTORICAL BATTLE PASS FUR and traders fair free seminars period clothes not required ON THE CONTINENTAL DIVIDE IN THE BEAUTIFUL SIERRA MADRE MOUNTAINS IN SOUTHERN WYOMING OPEN TO THE PUBLIC TRADERS & CAMPERS WELCOME JULY 14 - 22, 2001, come early and stay late PRIMITIVE CAMP, HORSE CAMP, TRADERS ROW PLENTY OF PARKING CLOSE TO CAMP MOTOR HOMES WELCOME ( NO HOOKUPS ) LOCATION IS ON HIGHWAY 70 - A PAVED MAJOR HIGHWAY - ABOUT 12 MILES WEST OF ENCAMPMENT, WYOMING Scenic lakes & fishing nearby Free hot springs 30 miles north in Saratoga, Wyo. Good spring water is available =96 lots of space and shade trees Ice available if snow banks don=92t melt =96 Fire Wood on site and free f= eed hobo stew and bisquits every day as long as it last s. Groceries and ice available in Encampment and Saratoga 11miles away EVENTS INCLUDE: Primitive Archery, Atlatl, Hawk and Knife Throw, and a Mountain Man Run Shooting is sponsored by Sierra Madre Muzzle Loading Club =96 July 14-15 period clothes not required this is open to everyone ,,,beginners welcome , free seminars ,,hide tanning,,bow making,,beading,,fire starting,,dutch oven cooking,,and kids games Shooting Fee: $15 per person - $20 per family ;we have some nice prizes: damascas billy watson knife,,Kenny Roberson shooting bag ,,linen longhunter shirt,,and prize money,, Hawk/Knife Throw $5 =96 Frying Pan Throw $1 Camping fee: $15 per person - $40 per family =96 Kids under 12 Free Traders Fee: $35 ( includes one person ) Pets Welcome ( Mean Dogs and Mean People aren=92t ) Camping and Trading Contact: Ron Hamilton 2510 Randolph Road Cookeville, TN 38506 931-528-6061 email: hamiltondrygoods@multipro.com -----------------------------------------------------------------------= - Regards from Idaho Lee Newbill Clerk, Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: teasing-a rant Date: 31 Mar 2001 15:34:40 -0600 I just returned from an r'vous with about 200 camps. Nary once did I hear a discouraging word about someones outfit. Courtesy and tolerance were the earmarks of this gathering. Dennis Miles made a comment about 'crometan blowing the illusion'. My skins are commercial tanned and they look good. Mebbe one day I'll be able to outfit with braintan but can't at present. While there I looked at some nice braintan offered by a trader. To the eye they were visually identical to my shirt. I do not understand how my shirt could "blow the illusion". Mebbe some expert could identify it on close examination as not being braintanned but one inch scrutiny seems a bit ridikalous to me. Thet's how my stick floats. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: teasing-a rant Date: 31 Mar 2001 13:55:50 -0800 To the | eye they were visually identical to my shirt. I do not understand how my | shirt could "blow the illusion". Frank, I suspect you have taken the time to make or have your shirt made with the scarf side (hair side) in rather than out. I suspect you also have a shirt made of commercially tanned leather that has not been dyed that bright yellow/gold color of most "buckskin" chrome tan. I suspect too, that what D. refers to are a set of skins made from bright yellow/gold chrome tan buckskin (which is what your hides come back like if you send them in to the tannery to have made into garment/glove leather) which unfortunatly does stand out as being just that from several hundred yards away on a dull overcast day. In all honesty for those who can not afford to buy, or will not take the 10 hours of personal time and labor to make some brain tan out of a nice deer hide, chorme tan or commercial tanned hides can be made into a very close semblence of brain tan. It is simply a matter of at the very least, sewing the garment with the flesh (fuzzy) side out rather than the smooth grain side out. A second step would be to take some of the yellow/gold color out with dye remover. A third step would be to sand off the grain and use the leather with that side out once the grain is gone. (This last step much improves the leathers "hand" and servicability as garment leather by the way) A final step would be to dry or wet scrap a fresh hide till all the Hair, grain or scarf skin and inner membrane is gone, soften it in a bath of water and brain solution, stretch and pull it while it drys, smoke it up good high in a closed up lodge with a smokey fire below and end up with brain tan. But that is probably too hard for some. So how long have you had this persecution complex? Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: teasing-a rant Date: 31 Mar 2001 17:20:16 -0500 I was nice before.. Not today.. there is NO comparison between commercial yellow chrometan and braintan... Unless you are blind AND braindead.. (better L.P.??) D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: teasing-a rant Date: 31 Mar 2001 17:24:26 -0500 Also, ANYONE that shows up to a juried event "dressed" with out being pre-juried like the participants, should be denied admittance.. PERIOD.. IMHO D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Possum Hunter" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: teasing-a rant Date: 31 Mar 2001 22:39:54 -0800 D. Miles wrote: > I was nice before.. Not today.. there is NO comparison between commercial yellow chrometan and braintan... Unless you are blind AND braindead.. On this one I must agree with the blacksmith! Why on earth would you waste so much time making an outfit out of Cheetoes yellow skins and sewing it with waxed nylon fake sinew, when you can spend the same amount of time to do it right? If you are not a deer hunter, braintan can be hard to come by. In South Carolina it is illegal to sell braintan skins, but we have a shop in Pelzer that sells very good looking commercial taned skins that look pretty close to the color of brantan. Atleast these commercial skins don't make you look like a walking cheese puff! I am nice about this issue tho, I don't tell a flatlander he looks like a cheese puff till he asks :-) BTW: I would rather see somebody in a yellow outfit just looking around than have to shoot next to a guy who is dressed right and shooting a gun he made out of a water pipe! Possum ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: teasing-a rant Date: 31 Mar 2001 20:48:51 -0700 I think both juried and non juried events have there place. What bothers me is, not so much the abundance of pumpkin leather [of witch can be made considerably better looking, as the captain said, with a liberal application of rit dye remover] as is the almost total lack of authentic styling. and furthermore all the myths that are perpetuated by trader's row and the long time participants [20 plus years] who have had plenty of time to pursue the truth about something they claim to love so much. Or could it be the prospect of making a quick buck that motivates them? On a more positive note I think things are slowly getting more authentic. I attended the Ft.Bridger Labor Day doins last year. I was pleasantly surprised, there were a lot of good authentic looking outfits and well equipped traders and a great outfit contest, that came down to a draw was really well done. my heart went out to those who judged the contest they had a tough time, the person who took first did so because of the "patina" on his buckskins. most of the contestants looked as though they had been scraped out of a miller painting. after so many years of, in my opinion, decadence, it restored my faith. Tom ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 3:24 PM > Also, ANYONE that shows up to a juried event "dressed" with out being > pre-juried like the participants, should be denied admittance.. PERIOD.. > IMHO > D > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html