From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Thank You Date: 04 Jun 2003 22:26:03 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C32AE8.48796380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I showed some of my photos of AMM camps to a guy who grew up Dutch and = is now an American. (His father, born Dutch, now has 25 years as an = American Air Force Pilot) My friends eyes got big and he got real = amimated about what a great place this is that we live in. We can own = horses and guns and have beautiful public lands to play on. He has = lived in many places all over the world, but he has never sat a horse. = The West is now where he calls home and hopefully we can cure his = affliction. I feel a need to thank the men both living and dead and the God of this = land for creating this place so I could have the honor of also calling = it my home. =20 Sorry for getting all preachy, just feeling IT tonight, and since I dont = have anyone else handy to inflict my graditude on you guys have to read = it. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C32AE8.48796380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I showed some of my photos of AMM camps to a guy who grew up Dutch = and is=20 now an American.  (His father, born Dutch, now has 25 years as = an=20 American Air Force Pilot)  My friends eyes got big and he = got=20 real amimated about what a great place this is that we live in.  We = can own=20 horses and guns and have beautiful public lands to play = on.  He has=20 lived in many places all over the world, but he has never sat a = horse.  The=20 West is now where he calls home and hopefully we can cure his = affliction.
 
I feel a need to thank the men both living and dead and the God of = this=20 land for creating this place so I could have the honor of also calling = it my=20 home. 
 
Sorry for getting all preachy, just feeling IT tonight, and since I = dont=20 have anyone else handy to inflict my graditude on you guys have to read=20 it.
 
Wynn Ormond
------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C32AE8.48796380-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Powell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Thank You Date: 05 Jun 2003 04:52:53 +0000

Wynn,

You da man!

Mike Powell




AMM #1769
POISON RIVER PARTY
"Ride, Ride, Ride"
"Aux Aliments du Pays"!
>From: "Wynn Ormond"
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To:
>Subject: MtMan-List: Thank You
>Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:26:03 -0600
>
>I showed some of my photos of AMM camps to a guy who grew up Dutch and is now an American. (His father, born Dutch, now has 25 years as an American Air Force Pilot) My friends eyes got big and he got real amimated about what a great place this is that we live in. We can own horses and guns and have beautiful public lands to play on. He has lived in many places all over the world, but he has never sat a horse. The West is now where he calls home and hopefully we can cure his affliction.
>
>I feel a need to thank the men both living and dead and the God of this land for creating this place so I could have the honor of also calling it my home.
>
>Sorry for getting all preachy, just feeling IT tonight, and since I dont have anyone else handy to inflict my graditude on you guys have to read it.
>
>Wynn Ormond

MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Museum expenses Date: 05 Jun 2003 01:41:03 EDT --part1_1c2.a9436dc.2c1031ef_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tom, Just checking to see if you have any expenses to turn in for the museum stuff you've done. I'm trying to get everything to Chas at one time and I hadn't heard from you. By the way, the box you built for the cache display was grand! Jim --part1_1c2.a9436dc.2c1031ef_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tom,

Just checking to see if you have any expenses to turn in for the museum stuf= f you've done. I'm trying to get everything to Chas at one time and I hadn't= heard from you.

By the way, the box you built for the cache display was grand!

Jim
 --part1_1c2.a9436dc.2c1031ef_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Museum expenses Date: 05 Jun 2003 01:41:03 EDT --part1_11.12acd99d.2c1031ef_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Crazy, U haven't received any receipts from you for Museum expenses and I thought I remembered you saying you had a few. Could you confirm for me whether you have some yet to send in? Thanks! Jim --part1_11.12acd99d.2c1031ef_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Crazy,

U haven't received any receipts from you for Museum expenses and I thought I= remembered you saying you had a few. Could you confirm for me whether you h= ave some yet to send in?

Thanks!

Jim --part1_11.12acd99d.2c1031ef_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Butler" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Thank You Date: 05 Jun 2003 08:47:08 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C32B3F.0C208E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, I think most agree with you. But we are losing our freedoms by the fist full. We need to band = together, speak with one voice, support the NRA as well as other groups = with our agenda. Be much more careful about who we send to speak for us = in the government, and accept nothing in trade for any part of our = freedom. I am afraid that my grand children will not even know what = freedom is as we do. Larry Butler ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michael Powell=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 9:52 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Thank You Wynn, You da man! Mike Powell AMM #1769=20 POISON RIVER PARTY=20 "Ride, Ride, Ride"=20 "Aux Aliments du Pays"!=20 >From: "Wynn Ormond"=20 >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 >To:=20 >Subject: MtMan-List: Thank You=20 >Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:26:03 -0600=20 >=20 >I showed some of my photos of AMM camps to a guy who grew up Dutch = and is now an American. (His father, born Dutch, now has 25 years as an = American Air Force Pilot) My friends eyes got big and he got real = amimated about what a great place this is that we live in. We can own = horses and guns and have beautiful public lands to play on. He has lived = in many places all over the world, but he has never sat a horse. The = West is now where he calls home and hopefully we can cure his = affliction.=20 >=20 >I feel a need to thank the men both living and dead and the God of = this land for creating this place so I could have the honor of also = calling it my home.=20 >=20 >Sorry for getting all preachy, just feeling IT tonight, and since I = dont have anyone else handy to inflict my graditude on you guys have to = read it.=20 >=20 >Wynn Ormond=20 ----- MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. = ---------------------- hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C32B3F.0C208E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, I think most agree with you.
 
But we are losing our freedoms by the fist = full.  We=20 need to band together, speak with one voice, support the NRA as well as = other=20 groups with our agenda.  Be much more careful about who we send to = speak=20 for us in the government, and accept nothing in trade for any part of = our=20 freedom.  I am afraid that my grand children will not even know = what=20 freedom is as we do.
 
Larry Butler
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Michael=20 Powell
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 = 9:52=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Thank = You

Wynn,

You da man!

Mike Powell




AMM #1769
POISON RIVER PARTY=20
"Ride, Ride, Ride"=20
"Aux Aliments du Pays"!=20
>From: "Wynn Ormond"
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
>To:
>Subject: MtMan-List: Thank You=20
>Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:26:03 -0600=20
>=20
>I showed some of my photos of AMM camps to a guy who = grew up=20 Dutch and is now an American. (His father, born Dutch, now has 25 = years as an=20 American Air Force Pilot) My friends eyes got big and he got real = amimated=20 about what a great place this is that we live in. We can own horses = and guns=20 and have beautiful public lands to play on. He has lived in many = places all=20 over the world, but he has never sat a horse. The West is now where he = calls=20 home and hopefully we can cure his affliction.=20
>=20
>I feel a need to thank the men both living and dead and = the God=20 of this land for creating this place so I could have the honor of also = calling=20 it my home.=20
>=20
>Sorry for getting all preachy, just feeling IT tonight, = and=20 since I dont have anyone else handy to inflict my graditude on you = guys have=20 to read it.=20
>=20
>Wynn Ormond=20

MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL=20 VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ---------------------- hist_text list = info:=20 http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C32B3F.0C208E20-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEXASLAZYB@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: unsubscribe Date: 05 Jun 2003 13:16:07 EDT --part1_63.1de8285a.2c10d4d7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unsubscribe --part1_63.1de8285a.2c10d4d7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable unsubscribe --part1_63.1de8285a.2c10d4d7_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 05 Jun 2003 16:48:34 EDT Hello the camp I have read of the Mt. Man having books in the mountains some of Shakespeare and the Bible. What Shakespeare works did they have and what other books did they have. I don't suppose they were reading Journal of a trapper. Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 05 Jun 2003 16:51:25 -0400 I am just guessing here Mark, but I would spect that you could find nearly all the works of Shakespeare on the frontier. They were all classics D ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 4:48 PM > Hello the camp > I have read of the Mt. Man having books in the mountains some of Shakespeare > and the Bible. What Shakespeare works did they have and what other books did > they have. I don't suppose they were reading Journal of a trapper. > Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 05 Jun 2003 15:49:42 -0600 (MDT) Speaking of reading Journal of a trapper. I quote that fine book. "It was an easy life with plenty of leisure to spend with the books he borrowed from Fort Hall; good books sent to that far-away post of the Hudson's Bay Company by Chief Factor John McLoughlin out of his circulating library at Fort Vancouver. "... that out of that reading came a deep religious conviction which changed Russell's life. During the month's spent trapping with ELbridge Trask in the country around Gray's Marsh he studied the Bible carefully, became convinced of it's truth and came to feel that he had not lived according to its principles. His conversion led him to abandon the the life of a "mountain man," and he went to the Willamette Valley with the Elijah White wagon train". Whenever I wake up on at a rendezvous or primitive trek a little too banged over I think about this quote. bb > Hello the camp > I have read of the Mt. Man having books in the mountains some of > Shakespeare > and the Bible. What Shakespeare works did they have and what other books > did > they have. I don't suppose they were reading Journal of a trapper. > Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 05 Jun 2003 18:42:48 EDT --part1_17.3a2648b5.2c112168_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, I did a research paper on the books the trappers had during the Rocky Mountain fur trade period. Would you like a copy of it? If so, would you rather I mailed it to you or sent it as an attachment to e-mail? Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 --part1_17.3a2648b5.2c112168_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark,

I did a research paper on the books the trappers had during the Rocky Mounta= in fur trade period. Would you like a copy of it? If so, would you rather I=20= mailed it to you or sent it as an attachment to e-mail?

Jim Hardee, AMM #1676
P.O. Box 1228
Quincy, CA  95971
 --part1_17.3a2648b5.2c112168_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 05 Jun 2003 20:24:45 EDT Jim an attachment would be fine the whole group could share it. I did not expect anything this good. Thanks Mark ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tetontodd@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Thank You Date: 05 Jun 2003 19:27:58 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_04b8.1a3f.7c2d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wynn, There is no doubt we are very blessed and have much to be grateful for. The beauty of nature that surrounds by itself it astounding. Maybe that is why it is so hard to go to work in the summer! Here's to sharing your sentiments! Teton Todd On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:26:03 -0600 "Wynn Ormond" writes: I showed some of my photos of AMM camps to a guy who grew up Dutch and is now an American. (His father, born Dutch, now has 25 years as an American Air Force Pilot) My friends eyes got big and he got real amimated about what a great place this is that we live in. We can own horses and guns and have beautiful public lands to play on. He has lived in many places all over the world, but he has never sat a horse. The West is now where he calls home and hopefully we can cure his affliction. I feel a need to thank the men both living and dead and the God of this land for creating this place so I could have the honor of also calling it my home. Sorry for getting all preachy, just feeling IT tonight, and since I dont have anyone else handy to inflict my graditude on you guys have to read it. Wynn Ormond ----__JNP_000_04b8.1a3f.7c2d Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wynn,
 
There is no doubt we are very blessed and have much to be grateful for= . The=20 beauty of nature that surrounds by itself it astounding. Maybe that is why = it is=20 so hard to go to work in the summer!
Here's to sharing your sentiments!
 
Teton Todd
 
On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:26:03 -0600 "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net> writes:
I showed some of my photos of AMM camps to a guy who grew up Dutch = and is=20 now an American.  (His father, born Dutch, now has 25 years as = an=20 American Air Force Pilot)  My friends eyes got big and he = got=20 real amimated about what a great place this is that we live in.  We = can=20 own horses and guns and have beautiful public lands to play on. &= nbsp;He=20 has lived in many places all over the world, but he has never sat a=20 horse.  The West is now where he calls home and hopefully we can = cure his=20 affliction.
 
I feel a need to thank the men both living and dead and the God of = this=20 land for creating this place so I could have the honor of also calling it= my=20 home. 
 
Sorry for getting all preachy, just feeling IT tonight, and since I = dont=20 have anyone else handy to inflict my graditude on you guys have to read=20 it.
 
Wynn Ormond
 
----__JNP_000_04b8.1a3f.7c2d-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tetontodd@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 05 Jun 2003 19:42:20 -0700 Mark, Funny you should ask. That is the topic of my Hivernaut research paper that I am working on as we type. Hopefully I'll get it wrapped up in a ..............week, maybe month or two. You're question may spur me on. Teton Todd On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:48:34 EDT MarkLoader@aol.com writes: > Hello the camp > I have read of the Mt. Man having books in the mountains some of > Shakespeare > and the Bible. What Shakespeare works did they have and what other > books did > they have. I don't suppose they were reading Journal of a trapper. > Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tetontodd@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 05 Jun 2003 19:47:40 -0700 Looks like Jim beat me to it, but I'm going to finish it anyway and see what I come up with. And now I'll have to avoid reading Jim's paper until mine is doe so as not to "borrow" any of his excellent research. Todd On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:24:45 EDT MarkLoader@aol.com writes: > Jim an attachment would be fine the whole group could share it. I did > not > expect anything this good. > Thanks Mark > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 06 Jun 2003 00:33:50 EDT --part1_51.3040c6c3.2c1173ae_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now gentlemen, poaching another guy's sources is how history is written. And if you give proper citation then it's all ethical and above board. Plus, it's an honor to see something you'e written in a piece of scholarly writing. John R. Sweet Colorado Springs --part1_51.3040c6c3.2c1173ae_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Now gentlemen, poaching another guy's sources is ho= w history is written. And if you give proper citation then it's all ethical=20= and above board.  Plus, it's an honor to see something you'e written in= a piece of scholarly writing.

John R. Sweet
Colorado Springs --part1_51.3040c6c3.2c1173ae_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John L. Allen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 05 Jun 2003 22:55:49 -0600 I'd love to see the article, Jim. If you don't mind, why not post an attachment for the entire list. Those that don't want it can simply delete it. The rest of us (and I suspect that's most of us) will read it with great interest. John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 6:24 PM > Jim an attachment would be fine the whole group could share it. I did not > expect anything this good. > Thanks Mark > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 05 Jun 2003 22:22:54 -0700 List, I too would like to see more of Jim's research work, BUT I don't think one can post attachments here. I have a better Idea.... Let's all meet at Jim's house and read it in person, he may read it to us? What ya say Jim? . I bet it is worth reading. Yfab, Randy > > I'd love to see the article, Jim. If you don't mind, why not post an > attachment for the entire list. Those that don't want it can simply delete > it. The rest of us (and I suspect that's most of us) will read it with great > interest. > > John > > > > Jim an attachment would be fine the whole group could share it. I did not > > expect anything this good. > > Thanks Mark ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEXASLAZYB@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: unsubscribe Date: 06 Jun 2003 12:12:04 EDT --part1_125.227ff657.2c121754_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unsubscribe --part1_125.227ff657.2c121754_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable unsubscribe --part1_125.227ff657.2c121754_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "lares" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 06 Jun 2003 20:15:26 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C32C68.5E497840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please send a copy by e-mail.=20 Thank you, Jim "Bear"=20 PS. address is lares@gate.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Casapy123@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 6:42 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Mark, I did a research paper on the books the trappers had during the Rocky = Mountain fur trade period. Would you like a copy of it? If so, would you = rather I mailed it to you or sent it as an attachment to e-mail? Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C32C68.5E497840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please send a copy by e-mail. =
Thank you,
Jim "Bear"
PS. address is lares@gate.net
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Casapy123@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 = 6:42=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books = the Mt. Man=20 Had

Mark,

I did a research paper on the books = the=20 trappers had during the Rocky Mountain fur trade period. Would you = like a copy=20 of it? If so, would you rather I mailed it to you or sent it as an = attachment=20 to e-mail?

Jim Hardee, AMM #1676
P.O. Box 1228
Quincy, = CA =20 95971
 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C32C68.5E497840-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ikon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 06 Jun 2003 21:34:27 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C32C73.67FB75E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, I would not mind reading it if'n ya want to email a copy to me. Thanks, Frank V. Rago ----- Original Message -----=20 From: lares=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 8:15 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Please send a copy by e-mail.=20 Thank you, Jim "Bear"=20 PS. address is lares@gate.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Casapy123@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 6:42 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Mark, I did a research paper on the books the trappers had during the = Rocky Mountain fur trade period. Would you like a copy of it? If so, = would you rather I mailed it to you or sent it as an attachment to = e-mail? Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C32C73.67FB75E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jim,
 
I would not mind reading it if'n ya want to = email a copy=20 to me.
 
Thanks,
 
Frank V. Rago
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 lares =
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 = 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books = the Mt. Man=20 Had

Please send a copy by e-mail. =
Thank you,
Jim "Bear"
PS. address is lares@gate.net
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Casapy123@aol.com
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 = 6:42=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books = the Mt.=20 Man Had

Mark,

I did a research paper on the = books the=20 trappers had during the Rocky Mountain fur trade period. Would you = like a=20 copy of it? If so, would you rather I mailed it to you or sent it as = an=20 attachment to e-mail?

Jim Hardee, AMM #1676
P.O. Box=20 1228
Quincy, CA =20 95971
 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C32C73.67FB75E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David A Miller Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 07 Jun 2003 12:11:13 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_1fb8.5e27.35e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Same here Jim!!! Dave On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:34:27 -0400 "Ikon" writes: Jim, I would not mind reading it if'n ya want to email a copy to me. Thanks, Frank V. Rago ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 8:15 PM Please send a copy by e-mail. Thank you, Jim "Bear" PS. address is lares@gate.net ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 6:42 PM Mark, I did a research paper on the books the trappers had during the Rocky Mountain fur trade period. Would you like a copy of it? If so, would you rather I mailed it to you or sent it as an attachment to e-mail? Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 ----__JNP_000_1fb8.5e27.35e1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Same here Jim!!!
 
Dave
 
On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:34:27 -0400 "Ikon" <ikon@mindspring.com> writes:
Jim,
 
I would not mind reading it if'n ya want to email= a copy=20 to me.
 
Thanks,
 
Frank V. Rago
----- Original Message -----
= lares
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.= com=20
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 8:15= =20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books = the Mt.=20 Man Had

Please send a copy by e-mail. <= /DIV>
Thank you,
Jim "Bear"
PS. address is lares@gate.net
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Casapy123@aol.com
To: hist_text@lists.xmission= .com=20
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 = 6:42=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books = the Mt.=20 Man Had

Mark,

I did a research paper on the books= the=20 trappers had during the Rocky Mountain fur trade period. Would you = like a=20 copy of it? If so, would you rather I mailed it to you or sent it as = an=20 attachment to e-mail?

Jim Hardee, AMM #1676
P.O. Box=20 1228
Quincy, CA  95971
 
----__JNP_000_1fb8.5e27.35e1-- ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Banks" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 07 Jun 2003 18:04:12 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C32D1F.338E3660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, If it would not be too much trouble, I would appreciate a copy. Send = to: sbanks@wyoming.com Thanks, Steve Banks ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Casapy123@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 4:42 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Mark, I did a research paper on the books the trappers had during the Rocky = Mountain fur trade period. Would you like a copy of it? If so, would you = rather I mailed it to you or sent it as an attachment to e-mail? Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C32D1F.338E3660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jim,
If it would not be too much trouble, I = would=20 appreciate a copy.  Send to:
    sbanks@wyoming.com
Thanks, Steve Banks
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Casapy123@aol.com
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 = 4:42=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books = the Mt. Man=20 Had

Mark,

I did a research paper on the books = the=20 trappers had during the Rocky Mountain fur trade period. Would you = like a copy=20 of it? If so, would you rather I mailed it to you or sent it as an = attachment=20 to e-mail?

Jim Hardee, AMM #1676
P.O. Box 1228
Quincy, = CA =20 95971
 ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C32D1F.338E3660-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samuel Keller Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 07 Jun 2003 19:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Mr. Hardee: If it is not too much trouble, could you send me a copy also??? My address is; wolftalk_98@yahoo.com Thank you; Sleepingbear > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Casapy123@aol.com > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 6:42 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had > > > Mark, > > I did a research paper on the books the trappers > had during the Rocky Mountain fur trade period. > Would you like a copy of it? If so, would you rather > I mailed it to you or sent it as an attachment to > e-mail? > > Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 > P.O. Box 1228 > Quincy, CA 95971 > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 08 Jun 2003 11:27:43 -0600 Sounds like you would save time by just posting it on the list . Don On Saturday, June 7, 2003 8:44 PM, Samuel Keller = wrote: >Mr. Hardee: > If it is not too much trouble, could you >send me a copy also??? >My address is; wolftalk_98@yahoo.com > >Thank you; > >Sleepingbear >>=20 >> ----- Original Message -----=20 >> From: Casapy123@aol.com=20 >> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 >> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 6:42 PM >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had >>=20 >>=20 >> Mark, >>=20 >> I did a research paper on the books the trappers >> had during the Rocky Mountain fur trade period. >> Would you like a copy of it? If so, would you rather >> I mailed it to you or sent it as an attachment to >> e-mail? >>=20 >> Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 >> P.O. Box 1228 >> Quincy, CA 95971 >>=20 >>=20 > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). >http://calendar.yahoo.com > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DOROTHY MORRIS" Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 08 Jun 2003 11:57:16 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C32DB5.1B188C70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up at a = trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter? I hear the horses ate the = inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and by whom? = Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for wolves? Were = there enough cottonwood trees? What else did they eat? What were the = logistics of this situation? Anyone know? Love to hear from you. DKM ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C32DB5.1B188C70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up = at a=20 trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear the horses = ate the=20 inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and by whom? = Did the=20 horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for = wolves? Were there=20 enough cottonwood trees?  What else did they eat?  What were = the=20 logistics of this situation?  Anyone know?  Love to hear from=20 you.
 
DKM
------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C32DB5.1B188C70-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 08 Jun 2003 14:55:24 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C32DCD.FDA991C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ms. Morris You ask more questions than I am going to have knowledge or time to = answer, but let me put a little into the fire. First from Zenas Lenard. There are more than one type of Cottonwood and = horses will not touch the bitter stuff. His group watched every animal = they had starve to death one winter from making this mistake. He said = the sound was most pitiful. Second horses are fairly resourceful. Early ranchers in Montana put = horses with their cattle in winter pasture because the horses would dig = through the snow so the cattle could get the idea and find feed. = (Source forgotten in too much reading of history) So we are only = talking the worst part of winter that cottonwood was required. Third, it may be a stretch but I believe a lot of horse care was learned = from the Indians who supplied a significant part of the beasts in the = first place. From John Ewers book The Horse in Blackfoot Culture. =20 "In winter cautious owners no longer delegated care of their horses to = adolscent boys. They cared for the animals themselves. . . ponies were = remarkably adept at [rustling food]. . . some horses "chewed like = beavers"on the cottonwood branches without waiting for their owners. . . = [There was an] ever present threat of diaster to horse herds in the area = of severe winters. . . . He quotes Ashley in 1826 saying: ". . . .horses may be wintered with little inconvience. . . suppose it = almost as nutritous as timothy hay. (42-45) Fourth, dispite popular image of the lone trappers living alone for = months at a time, most trapper were closely united to a group of some = type. They might spend a lot of time out traveling alone or in small = groups but they were within a maxuim of a couple days ride of the main = group. I have read that in a typical brigade at least half of the men = were likely to be camp keepers. Gathering enough feed for the horses = and mules to survive an average winter was probably not that tough in = times when there wasn't much else to do.=20 Fifth, I dont believe wolves were that big a concern to a herd of = horses tough little mountain ponies, wondering to far or being wondered = by another tribe would be a greater concern and that did not change no = matter the time of year. Wynn Ormond ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DOROTHY MORRIS=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up at a = trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter? I hear the horses ate the = inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and by whom? = Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for wolves? Were = there enough cottonwood trees? What else did they eat? What were the = logistics of this situation? Anyone know? Love to hear from you. DKM ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C32DCD.FDA991C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ms. Morris
 
You ask more questions than I am going to have = knowledge=20 or time to answer, but let me put a little into the fire.
 
First from Zenas Lenard.  There are more = than one=20 type of Cottonwood and horses will not touch the bitter stuff.  His = group=20 watched every animal they had starve to death one winter from making = this=20 mistake.  He said the sound was most pitiful.
 
Second horses are fairly resourceful.  = Early ranchers=20 in Montana put horses with their cattle in winter pasture because the = horses=20 would dig through the snow so the cattle could get the idea and find = feed. =20 (Source forgotten in too much reading of history)  So we are only = talking=20 the worst part of winter that cottonwood was required.
 
Third, it may be a stretch but I believe a lot = of horse=20 care was learned from the Indians who supplied a significant part of the = beasts=20 in the first place.  From John Ewers book The Horse in Blackfoot=20 Culture. 
 
"In winter cautious owners no longer delegated = care of=20 their horses to adolscent boys.  They cared for the animals = themselves. . .=20 ponies were remarkably adept at [rustling food]. . . some horses "chewed = like=20 beavers"on the cottonwood branches without waiting for their owners. . . = [There=20 was an] ever present threat of diaster to horse herds in the area of = severe=20 winters. . . .
 
He quotes Ashley in = 1826 saying:
 
". . . .horses may be wintered with little = inconvience. .=20 . suppose it almost as nutritous as timothy hay. (42-45)
 
 Fourth, dispite popular image of the lone = trappers=20 living alone for months at a time, most trapper were closely united to a = group=20 of some type.  They might spend a lot of time out traveling = alone or=20 in small groups but they were within a maxuim of a couple days ride of = the main=20 group. I have read that in a typical brigade at least half of the = men were=20 likely to be camp keepers.  Gathering enough feed for the horses = and mules=20 to survive an average winter was probably not that tough in times when = there=20 wasn't much else to do. 
 
Fifth,  I dont believe wolves were that = big a=20 concern to a herd of horses tough little mountain ponies, wondering to = far or=20 being wondered by another tribe would be a greater concern and that did = not=20 change no matter the time of year.
 
Wynn Ormond
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DOROTHY = MORRIS=20
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 = 12:57=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain = Man's=20 horse

Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up = at a=20 trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear the horses = ate the=20 inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and by = whom? Did=20 the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for=20 wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees?  What else = did they=20 eat?  What were the logistics of this situation?  Anyone = know? =20 Love to hear from you.
 
DKM
------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C32DCD.FDA991C0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 08 Jun 2003 15:05:34 -0600 (MDT) Had to keep an eye on horses constantly in Indian country. What was the old saying? "Count their ribs or count their tracks". bb > Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up at a > trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter? I hear the horses ate the > inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and by whom? > Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for wolves? Were > there enough cottonwood trees? What else did they eat? What were the > logistics of this situation? Anyone know? Love to hear from you. > > DKM ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 08 Jun 2003 20:09:46 EDT --part1_1ce.b677eb2.2c152a4a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I tried to post the article on the list. Can anyone tell me if it came through? Someone said they did not think you could do it so it might have been lost somewhere in cyberspace. I have sent a copy by individual e-mail to those who requested one. (At least I think I got everyone. If you haven't got a copy and want it, e-mail me again.) Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530) 283-3330 (W) (530) 283-4566 (H) (530) 283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com --part1_1ce.b677eb2.2c152a4a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I tried to post the article on the list. Can anyone te= ll me if it came through? Someone said they did not think you could do it so= it might have been lost somewhere in cyberspace. I have sent a copy by indi= vidual e-mail to those who requested one. (At least I think I got everyone.=20= If you haven't got a copy and want it, e-mail me again.)

Jim Hardee, AMM #1676
P.O. Box 1228
Quincy, CA  95971
(530) 283-3330 (W)
(530) 283-4566 (H)
(530) 283-5171 FAX
Casapy123@aol.com --part1_1ce.b677eb2.2c152a4a_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Guglielmi Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 08 Jun 2003 17:52:15 -0700 --=====================_27200000==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Jim, So far I have not seen your article show up on the list. How about sending me a copy. thanks, Rick At 08:09 PM 06/08/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I tried to post the article on the list. Can anyone tell me if it came >through? Someone said they did not think you could do it so it might have >been lost somewhere in cyberspace. I have sent a copy by individual e-mail >to those who requested one. (At least I think I got everyone. If you >haven't got a copy and want it, e-mail me again.) > >Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 >P.O. Box 1228 >Quincy, CA 95971 >(530) 283-3330 (W) >(530) 283-4566 (H) >(530) 283-5171 FAX >Casapy123@aol.com --=====================_27200000==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Jim,

So far I have not seen your article show up on the list.  How about sending me a copy.

thanks, Rick
At 08:09 PM 06/08/2003 -0400, you wrote:
I tried to post the article on the list. Can anyone tell me if it came through? Someone said they did not think you could do it so it might have been lost somewhere in cyberspace. I have sent a copy by individual e-mail to those who requested one. (At least I think I got everyone. If you haven't got a copy and want it, e-mail me again.)

Jim Hardee, AMM #1676
P.O. Box 1228
Quincy, CA  95971
(530) 283-3330 (W)
(530) 283-4566 (H)
(530) 283-5171 FAX
Casapy123@aol.com
--=====================_27200000==_.ALT-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David A Miller Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 08 Jun 2003 20:10:49 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_79f6.26fd.7665 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit could you send the post to me (dammiller@juno.com). I did not see it post to the list. thanks Dave On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:09:46 EDT Casapy123@aol.com writes: I tried to post the article on the list. Can anyone tell me if it came through? Someone said they did not think you could do it so it might have been lost somewhere in cyberspace. I have sent a copy by individual e-mail to those who requested one. (At least I think I got everyone. If you haven't got a copy and want it, e-mail me again.) Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530) 283-3330 (W) (530) 283-4566 (H) (530) 283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ----__JNP_000_79f6.26fd.7665 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
could you send the post to me (dammiller@juno.com).  I did not= see it=20 post to the list.
 
thanks
 
Dave
 
On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:09:46 EDT Casapy123@aol.com writes:
I tried to post the article on the list. Can anyone = tell me=20 if it came through? Someone said they did not think you could do it so it= =20 might have been lost somewhere in cyberspace. I have sent a copy by = individual=20 e-mail to those who requested one. (At least I think I got everyone. If = you=20 haven't got a copy and want it, e-mail me again.)

Jim Hardee, AMM= =20 #1676
P.O. Box 1228
Quincy, CA  95971
(530) 283-3330=20 (W)
(530) 283-4566 (H)
(530) 283-5171 FAX
Casapy123@aol.com=20
 
----__JNP_000_79f6.26fd.7665-- ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 09 Jun 2003 00:11:09 EDT Jim I ran into this problem trying to send my library list as an attachment on the list. Maybe you can copy it into a post or two if it is too long. Or send it to me as a private email. Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had - Here is the Article Date: 09 Jun 2003 00:22:05 EDT --part1_102.2f559a12.2c15656d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en The Well Read Trapper By Jim Hardee "We had an abundance of reading matter with us; old mountain men were al= l=20 great readers. It was always amusing to me to hear people from the East=20 speak of old mountaineers as semi-barbarians, when as a general rule they we= re the=20 peers of the Easterners in general knowledge." (Hamilton, 68) This quote from William T. Hamilton, made in the summer of 1842, calls=20 for reconsideration of the stereotypical view of the Rocky Mountain trapper=20= as=20 an illiterate ruffian. To learn that mountaineers were avid bookworms chang= es=20 the outlook of the generally accepted representation of the men who entered=20 the mountains in search of beaver. What publications were present in fur tr= ade=20 circles? What novels were passed around the fire during winter encampments?= =20 This article examines the record for evidence of the books found among the=20 packs of traders and fur men. Many early chroniclers of the westward push toward the Rockies carried=20 books as part of their outfit. Often, a general reference to books is made=20 without specifying titles. Examples of such nonspecific mention include Phi= llip=20 Maximilian. The Prince of Wied-Neuwied reported his 1832 expedition's=20 necessaries comprised ". . . coffee, sugar, brandy, candles, fine gunpowder, shot of every kind,=20 colours, paper, some books, &c." (Maximilian, 235fn.) =20 Alexander Ross makes another general reference to books. In July 1813, Ross= =20 wrote ". . .one of the canoes in ascending the rapid, sheered out in the stream,=20 whirled round and round and upset. With great difficulty and danger the men= =20 were saved, but a good deal of property was irrecoverably lost, and, among o= ther=20 things, a box of mine, containing books and mathematical instruments,=20 quadrant, sextant, and a valuable pair of pistols - all went to the bottom."= (Ross,=20 240.)=20 Other general mentions include Narcissa Whitman's complaint that the=20 books they carried had gotten wet several times while traveling along the Sn= ake=20 River, west of Fort Hall. (Drury, 85) According to his biographer, Manuel=20 Alvarez' journals for the winter of 1833 indicate he must have been reading=20 historical, philosophical or religious books. (Dunham, 187) Job Dye acquired= a=20 considerable number of books in his later life as employee, Nicholas Dawson,= =20 states Dye supplied him with large amounts of reading material. Dye's libra= ry was=20 greatly extended when Commodore Sloat presented Dye's wife one thousand=20 volumes in appreciation of her gift to him of a fine horse. (Cline, 264) Je= dediah=20 Smith's estate contained a trunk of books with no titles named. Finally,=20 Washington Irving reported the Astorians found a few books scattered about t= he=20 opened caches near the Caldron Linn. (Irving, 338) Yet, specific titles are readily found in the annals of the Rocky=20 Mountain west beginning as early as the journals written by the Corps of=20 Discovery. Meriwether Lewis purchased a veritable reference library for the= ir=20 cross-continent trek in the early 1800s. Among these works were found The N= autical=20 Almanac and Astronomical Ephemeris, published by order of the Commissioners=20= of=20 Longitude (London, 1781-1804); Nevil Maskelyn, Tables Requisite To Be Used W= ith=20 the Nautical Ephemeris for Finding the Latitude and Longitude at Sea (London= ,=20 1781); Richard Kirwan, Elements of Mineralogy (London, 1784); Benjamin Smith= =20 Barton, Elements of Botany (Philadelphia, 1803); John Miller, An Illustratio= n=20 of the Sexual System of Linnaeus, vol. 1 (London, 1779) and An Illustration=20= of=20 the Termini Botanici of Linnaeus, vol. 2 (London, 1789); and Patrick Kelly,=20= A=20 Practical Introduction to Spherics and Nautical Astronomy (London, 1796). =20 These tomes were to be used to help the Captains identify flora and fauna,=20 establish their position, and accomplish the other more scientific related t= asks of=20 their trek.. (Jackson, 70, 75n, 96, 99n)=20 Stephen H. Long, leader of another government-sponsored expedition in=20 1819-20, also carried books into the wilderness. Edwin James, a scientist=20 assigned to the expedition and writer of the official report, was not as gen= erous in=20 delineating titles as was Lewis. James recorded "We were furnished with an=20 adequate supply of arms and ammunition, and a collection of books and=20 instruments." (James, 44) Being lumped with instruments may well indicate t= hese were=20 reference works intended to guide the scientific and exploration aims of the= =20 journey. James makes several references to the narrative of Lewis and Clark= so=20 it is likely Long was provided with a copy of The History of the Expedition=20 Under the Commands of Captains Lewis and Clark, finally edited and published= by=20 Nicholas Biddle in 1816 in two volumes. It makes sense that parties venturing into relatively unknown regions=20 would bring the records of those who had gone before them. A prime example= is=20 Nathaniel Wyeth's party of 1832. The captain's brother, John B. Wyeth, did=20= not=20 enjoy his trip west and wrote a somewhat pessimistic account of his=20 experiences. In this book he wrote, "The journal of Lewis and Clarke to the= Pacific=20 ocean, over the Rocky Mountains, was a popular book in the hands of every bo= dy;=20 and the Expedition of Major Long and company was as much read=E2=80=A6" (Wye= th, 82). =20 He also refers to an "engraved representation" of the Flathead Indians in "M= r.=20 Long's book. (Wyeth, 53) =20 Numerous references are made to information contained in the Lewis and=20 Clark Journals by Warren Ferris, writing in the early 1830s. Ferris frequen= tly=20 relates incidents and sites from his experiences, correlating them to simila= r=20 events or locations from Lewis and Clark. Examples include, "The Sho-sho-ne= =20 Cove, where Capt. Lewis in advance of the canoes and with one attendant,=20 discovered the first Rocky Mountain Indian," "through the Rattle Snake Cliff= s to the=20 forks where Lewis and Clark left their canoes," and "following the same trai= l=20 that guided Lewis and Clark there so many years before Us." (Ferris, 176,=20 192, 193) Based on the frequency Ferris refers to these early journals, he=20 either knows the journals well or, more probably, has them with him. Further documentation of trappers possessing the journals form Lewis and= =20 Clark can be found in the March 16, 1824 entry of Duncan Finlayson in the=20 Edmonton House log. Finlayson wrote "Mess [Patrick] Small & [George] Descha= mbault=20 finished trading with the Blood Indians - they brought principally beavers &= =20 Robes - They have brought us some more trophies of their victory over the=20 unfortunate Americans with whom they fought last Summer, such as Rifles, the= first=20 Volume of the Arabian Nights, Lewis & Clarke's travels in two Volumes, and a= =20 small quarto marble covered book=E2=80=A6" (Morgan, 44) These were spoils t= aken from=20 either the Immell and Jones massacre or the run in Andrew Henry and his men=20 had, both events in 1823. The "small quarto marble covered book" was an acc= ount=20 book listing the names of thirty men in the party so identification of the=20 Americans would have been possible. Arabian Nights, a collection of about 200 stories, includes such tales a= s=20 the adventures of Aladdin, Ali Baba and Sinbad. What is more interesting is= =20 that these tales were translated from the original Arabic to French for the=20 first time in the early 1700s and were not converted into English until the=20 1880s. To enjoy these stories, some American trapper in the Three Forks are= a had=20 to have been fluent in French; not unusual given the number of=20 French-Canadians in the fur trade. Other novels provided entertainment for trappers in the field as well. =20 Louis Vasquez wrote his brother, Benito, from Ham's Fork on July 9, 1834, "I= f=20 you can procure me some novels Mr. Campbell will be pleased to bring them to= =20 me." (Hafen, 324) While it is not known which novels Vasquez may have found= =20 among the packs Campbell brought out the next summer, Joe Meek gives some id= ea of=20 the best-sellers in the mountains. Meek's biographer, Frances Victor, says=20 the mountain men exhausted the retelling of their own adventures then rehear= sed=20 the tales they had read in their youth. "Robinson Crusoe and the Arabian=20 Nights Entertainment, were read over again by the light of memory; and even=20 Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress was made to recite like a sensation novel=E2=80= =A6" (Victor,=20 196) Daniel Defoe, known by some as the father of the English novel, wrote=20 Robinson Crusoe in 1719. John Bunyan wrote his allegorical piece in the lat= e=20 1600s. These books were recited in the Rockies if not read out right. Meek provides more information on the literary pursuits of his comrades.= =20 He tells of the Rocky Mountain College courses that took place during winter= =20 camp. Meek learned to read by the light of the campfire from a fellow trapp= er=20 named Green. (Victor, 84) Meek soon acquired enough ability to "enjoy an ol= d=20 copy of Shakespeare, which, with a Bible, was carried about with the propert= y=20 of the camp." (Victor, 84) Apparently some books were among the holdings of= =20 the company rather than the individual mountaineer. Another book mentioned in Meek's biography is Scottish Chiefs, written b= y=20 Jane Porter. First published in 1810 to spectacular success throughout=20 Europe, the book was reprinted in 1831 and again in 1839. It is the tale of= Sir=20 William Wallace and Robert the Bruce. Meek's biographer says "=E2=80=A6his=20= spouse had=20 carried with her a pretty and sprightly baby-daughter, of whom the father wa= s=20 fond and proud, and who had been christened Helen Mar, after one of the hero= ines=20 of Miss Porter's Scottish Chiefs - a book much admired in the mountains, as=20 it has been elsewhere." (Victor, 238) =20 In another biography of Joseph Meek, Harvey E. Tobie cites several other= =20 volumes to be found among a trapper's plunder. "They had access to the Bibl= e,=20 to the works of Shakespeare, Byron, Scott and many other writers."(Hafen,=20 Vol. I, 325) Meek apparently knew the Bard well enough to quote him in=20 explaining a prank to John McLoughlin. According to Tobie, Meek said, "=E2= =80=A6it is not that=20 I love Brutus less, but my dignity more." Warren Ferris also refers to Byro= n=20 but while it is clear Ferris is quite familiar with the author, it is not=20 clear the book was in his possession. (Ferris, 298-99) =20 Another citation of Shakespeare comes from William Hamilton, quoted at=20 the beginning of this article. Hamilton joined a party of free trappers led=20= by=20 Bill Williams and George Perkins. Both of the latter men were experienced=20 trappers and undoubtedly among the "old mountain men" referred to by Hamilto= n. In=20 the Owl Creek Mountains, the party crossed the trail of a small party of=20 mountaineers who had recently been attacked by Blackfeet. Hamilton describe= d the=20 three survivors as "nervy=E2=80=A6one was a Scotchman, one a Frenchman from=20= St. Louis,=20 and the third came from Kentucky=E2=80=A6I found the Scotchman and the Kentu= ckian=20 well educated men. The latter presented me with a copy of Shakespeare and a= n=20 ancient and modern history which he had in his pack." (Hamilton, 68) Tobie does not provide sources for his claim that the books he names=20 were present in the mountains although it is probably Osborne Russell. Writ= ing=20 from the vicinity of Fort Hall during the winter of 1839, Russelll states he= =20 and his party "passed an agreeable winter=E2=80=A6We had some few Books to r= ead such=20 as Byrons Shakespeares and Scotts works the Bible and Clarks Commentary on=20= it=20 and other small works on Geology Chemistry and Philosophy--" (Russell, 109)=20= =20 Classics in their day as well as now, Sir Walter Scott penned a long series=20= of=20 works called the Waverly novels, but he may be best known as the author of=20 Ivanhoe. Lord George Gordon Byron was an English romantic poet who wrote wi= th an=20 underlying theme insisting that people be free to choose their own course in= =20 life; just the sort of reading that a mountaineer might fancy. Byron's=20 masterpiece was undoubtedly the legend of the epic hero, Don Juan. Here again is mention of both Shakespeare and the Bible. Another religious=20 oriented item is the Bible Commentary written by Adam Clarke. This was a=20 multi-volume work begun in 1810. How many of the eight volumes were accessi= ble is=20 not clear. =20 Apparently, reading the Bible and Clarke's Commentary had a tremendous impac= t=20 on Russell that changed him spiritually. A deep religious conviction=20 developed as he carefully studied the Bible while trapping the area around G= ray's=20 Marsh with partner Elbridge Trask. According to Reverend George H. Atkinson= ,=20 Russell became convinced of the Bible's truth and knew he had not lived up t= o its=20 principles. He then abandoned his life as a mountaineer and went to the=20 Willamette Valley with the wagon train led by Elijah White in 1842. (Russel= l,=20 viii) It is also interesting that Russell mentions texts on geology,=20 chemistry and philosophy. By that time, the Hudson's Bay Company owned For= t Hall,=20 Nathaniel Wyeth having sold out in 1836. Factor John McLoughlin maintained=20= a=20 circulating library at Fort Vancouver, sending books to various out lying po= sts=20 on a rotating basis. It is likely Russell borrowed the publications=20 mentioned in his journal from the HBC staff at Fort Hall. In May of 1840 Ru= ssell and=20 his partner, Trask, separated leaving him alone with his two horses and "som= e=20 books I brot from the Fort. (Russell, viii, 111) These are but a few of the titles that appear in the primary record.=20= =20 There are others, but enough are presented here to establish the literary=20 worthiness of the well-read trapper. It is plain to see that the mountainee= r in=20 the Rocky Mountains was aware of classical literature and kept relatively=20 current on the best sellers of that era. =20 References: Cline, Gloria G. "Job Francis Dye," in Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the= =20 Far West. Vol. I. Leroy Hafen, ed. Arthur H. Clark, Glendale, CA 1965. Drury, Clifford M. First White Women Over the Rockies. Vol. I. Arthur Clark=20 Co. Glendale, CA. 1963. Dunham, Harold H. "Manuel Alvarez," in Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the= =20 Far West. Vol. I. Leroy Hafen, ed. Arthur H. Clark, Glendale, CA 1965. Ferris, Warren A. Life in the Rocky Mountains. Leroy R. Hafen, ed. Old West=20 Publishing Co. Denver, CO. 1983. Hafen, Leroy R. "Louis Vasquez," The Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the=20 Far West. Vol. II. Leroy Hafen, ed. Arthur H. Clark Co., Glendale, CA=20= =20 1965.=20 Hamilton, William T. My Sixty Years on the Plains. E.T. Seiber, ed. Long's=20 College Book Co. Columbus, OH. 1951 Irving, Washington. Astoria. Binfords & Mort. Portland, OR.=20 Jackson, Donald, ed. Letters of the Lewis and Clark Expedition with Related=20 Documents, 1783-1854. University of Illinois Press, Chicago. 1978. James, Edwin. Account of an Expedition From Pittsburgh to the Rocky=20 Mountains. Reuben G. Thwaites, ed. Early Western Travels, Vol. XIV. AMS=20= Press, Inc.=20 New York. 1966. Maximilian, Phillip. Travels in the Interior of North America. Reuben G.=20 Thwaites, ed. Early Western Travels, Vol. XXII. AMS Press, Inc. New York. 1= 966. Morgan, Dale. The West of William Ashley. Old West Publishing, Denver, CO.=20 1964. Ross, Alexander. Adventures of the First Settlers on the Oregon or Columbia=20 River. Reuben G. Thwaites, ed. Early Western Travels, Vol. VII. AMS Pres= s,=20 Inc. New York. 1966. Russell, Osborne. Journal of a Trapper. Aubrey L. Haines, ed. Oregon=20 Historical Society, Champoeg Press. Portland, OR. 1955. Tobie, Harvey E. "Joseph L. Meek" The Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the=20 Far West. Vol. I. Leroy Hafen, ed. Arthur H. Clark Co., Glendale, CA =20 1965.=20 Victor, Frances, F. The River of the West. R.W. Bliss & Co. Hartford, CT.=20 1870.=20 Wyeth, John B. Oregon; or A Short History of a Long Journey From the Atlanti= c=20 Ocean to the Region of the Pacific by Land. Readex Microprint Corp. 1966= . --part1_102.2f559a12.2c15656d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en          &nbs= p;           The Well Read Tr= apper
             =20=               =20= By Jim Hardee

"We had an abundance of reading matter with us; old mountain men were al= l great readers.  It was always amusing to me to hear people from the E= ast speak of old mountaineers as semi-barbarians, when as a general rule the= y were the peers of the Easterners in general knowledge." (Hamilton, 68)

This quote from William T. Hamilton, made in the summer of 1842, calls f= or reconsideration of the stereotypical view of the Rocky Mountain trapper a= s an illiterate ruffian.  To learn that mountaineers were avid bookworm= s changes the outlook of the generally accepted representation of the men wh= o entered the mountains in search of beaver.  What publications were pr= esent in fur trade circles?  What novels were passed around the fire du= ring winter encampments?  This article examines the record for evidence= of the books found among the packs of traders and fur men.
Many early chroniclers of the westward push toward the Rockies carried b= ooks as part of their outfit.  Often, a general reference to books is m= ade without specifying titles.  Examples of such nonspecific mention in= clude Phillip Maximilian.  The Prince of Wied-Neuwied reported his 1832= expedition's necessaries comprised

". . . coffee, sugar, brandy, candles, fine gunpowder, shot of every kind, c= olours, paper, some books, &c." (Maximilian, 235fn.)   &n= bsp;

Alexander Ross makes another general reference to books.  In July 1813,= Ross wrote

". . .one of the canoes in ascending the rapid, sheered out in the stream, w= hirled round and round and upset.  With great difficulty and danger the= men were saved, but a good deal of property was irrecoverably lost, and, am= ong other things, a box of mine, containing books and mathematical instrumen= ts, quadrant, sextant, and a valuable pair of pistols - all went to the bott= om." (Ross, 240.)

       Other general mentions include Narcissa= Whitman's complaint that the books they carried had gotten wet several time= s while traveling along the Snake River, west of Fort Hall. (Drury, 85) = ; According to his biographer, Manuel Alvarez' journals for the winter of 18= 33 indicate he must have been reading historical, philosophical or religious= books. (Dunham, 187) Job Dye acquired a considerable number of books in his= later life as employee, Nicholas Dawson, states Dye supplied him with large= amounts of reading material.  Dye's library was greatly extended when=20= Commodore Sloat presented Dye's wife one thousand volumes in appreciation of= her gift to him of a fine horse. (Cline, 264)  Jedediah Smith's estate= contained a trunk of books with no titles named.  Finally, Washington=20= Irving reported the Astorians found a few books scattered about the opened c= aches near the Caldron Linn. (Irving, 338)
       Yet, specific titles are readily found=20= in the annals of the Rocky Mountain west beginning as early as the journals=20= written by the Corps of Discovery.  Meriwether Lewis purchased a verita= ble reference library for their cross-continent trek in the early 1800s.&nbs= p; Among these works were found The Nautical Almanac and Astronomical Epheme= ris, published by order of the Commissioners of Longitude (London, 1781-1804= ); Nevil Maskelyn, Tables Requisite To Be Used With the Nautical Ephemeris f= or Finding the Latitude and Longitude at Sea (London, 1781); Richard Kirwan,= Elements of Mineralogy (London, 1784); Benjamin Smith Barton, Elements of B= otany (Philadelphia, 1803); John Miller, An Illustration of the Sexual Syste= m of Linnaeus, vol. 1 (London, 1779) and An Illustration of the Termini Bota= nici of Linnaeus, vol. 2 (London, 1789); and Patrick Kelly, A Practical Intr= oduction to Spherics and Nautical Astronomy (London, 1796).  These tome= s were to be used to help the Captains identify flora and fauna, establish t= heir position, and accomplish the other more scientific related tasks of the= ir trek.. (Jackson, 70, 75n, 96, 99n)
Stephen H. Long, leader of another government-sponsored expedition in 18= 19-20, also carried books into the wilderness.  Edwin James, a scientis= t assigned to the expedition and writer of the official report, was not as g= enerous in delineating titles as was Lewis.  James recorded "We were fu= rnished with an adequate supply of arms and ammunition, and a collection of=20= books and instruments." (James, 44)  Being lumped with instruments may=20= well indicate these were reference works intended to guide the scientific an= d exploration aims of the journey.  James makes several references to t= he narrative of Lewis and Clark so it is likely Long was provided with a cop= y of The History of the Expedition Under the Commands of Captains Lewis and=20= Clark, finally edited and published by Nicholas Biddle in 1816 in two volume= s.
It makes sense that parties venturing into relatively unknown regions wo= uld bring the records of those who had gone before them.   A prime= example is Nathaniel Wyeth's party of 1832.  The captain's brother, Jo= hn B. Wyeth, did not enjoy his trip west and wrote a somewhat pessimistic ac= count of his experiences.  In this book he wrote, "The journal of Lewis= and Clarke to the Pacific ocean, over the Rocky Mountains, was a popular bo= ok in the hands of every body; and the Expedition of Major Long and company=20= was as much read=E2=80=A6" (Wyeth, 82).  He also refers to an "engraved= representation" of the Flathead Indians in "Mr. Long's book. (Wyeth, 53)&nb= sp;     
Numerous references are made to information contained in the Lewis and C= lark Journals by Warren Ferris, writing in the early 1830s.  Ferris fre= quently relates incidents and sites from his experiences, correlating them t= o similar events or locations from Lewis and Clark.  Examples include,=20= "The Sho-sho-ne Cove, where Capt. Lewis in advance of the canoes and with on= e attendant, discovered the first Rocky Mountain Indian," "through the Rattl= e Snake Cliffs to the forks where Lewis and Clark left their canoes," and "f= ollowing the same trail that guided Lewis and Clark there so many years befo= re Us." (Ferris, 176, 192, 193)  Based on the frequency Ferris refers t= o these early journals, he either knows the journals well or, more probably,= has them with him.
Further documentation of trappers possessing the journals form Lewis and= Clark can be found in the March 16, 1824 entry of Duncan Finlayson in the E= dmonton House log.  Finlayson wrote "Mess [Patrick] Small & [George= ] Deschambault finished trading with the Blood Indians - they brought princi= pally beavers & Robes - They have brought us some more trophies of their= victory over the unfortunate Americans with whom they fought last Summer, s= uch as Rifles, the first Volume of the Arabian Nights, Lewis & Clarke's=20= travels in two Volumes, and a small quarto marble covered book=E2=80=A6" (Mo= rgan, 44)  These were spoils taken from either the Immell and Jones mas= sacre or the run in Andrew Henry and his men had, both events in 1823. = The "small quarto marble covered book" was an account book listing the name= s of thirty men in the party so identification of the Americans would have b= een possible.
Arabian Nights, a collection of about 200 stories, includes such tales a= s the adventures of Aladdin, Ali Baba and Sinbad.  What is more interes= ting is that these tales were translated from the original Arabic to French=20= for the first time in the early 1700s and were not converted into English un= til the 1880s.  To enjoy these stories, some American trapper in the Th= ree Forks area had to have been fluent in French; not unusual given the numb= er of French-Canadians in the fur trade.
Other novels provided entertainment for trappers in the field as well.&n= bsp; Louis Vasquez wrote his brother, Benito, from Ham's Fork on July 9, 183= 4, "If you can procure me some novels Mr. Campbell will be pleased to bring=20= them to me." (Hafen, 324)  While it is not known which novels Vasquez m= ay have found among the packs Campbell brought out the next summer, Joe Meek= gives some idea of the best-sellers in the mountains.  Meek's biograph= er, Frances Victor, says the mountain men exhausted the retelling of their o= wn adventures then rehearsed the tales they had read in their youth. "Robins= on Crusoe and the Arabian Nights Entertainment, were read over again by the=20= light of memory; and even Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress was made to recite lik= e a sensation novel=E2=80=A6" (Victor, 196)  Daniel Defoe, known by som= e as the father of the English novel, wrote Robinson Crusoe in 1719.  J= ohn Bunyan wrote his allegorical piece in the late 1600s.  These books=20= were recited in the Rockies if not read out right.
Meek provides more information on the literary pursuits of his comrades.=   He tells of the Rocky Mountain College courses that took place during= winter camp.  Meek learned to read by the light of the campfire from a= fellow trapper named Green. (Victor, 84)  Meek soon acquired enough ab= ility to "enjoy an old copy of Shakespeare, which, with a Bible, was carried= about with the property of the camp." (Victor, 84)  Apparently some bo= oks were among the holdings of the company rather than the individual mounta= ineer.
Another book mentioned in Meek's biography is Scottish Chiefs, written b= y Jane Porter. First published in 1810 to spectacular success throughout Eur= ope, the book was reprinted in 1831 and again in 1839.  It is the tale=20= of Sir William Wallace and Robert the Bruce.  Meek's biographer says "= =E2=80=A6his spouse had carried with her a pretty and sprightly baby-daughte= r, of whom the father was fond and proud, and who had been christened Helen=20= Mar, after one of the heroines of Miss Porter's Scottish Chiefs - a book muc= h admired in the mountains, as it has been elsewhere." (Victor, 238)  <= BR> In another biography of Joseph Meek, Harvey E. Tobie cites several other= volumes to be found among a trapper's plunder.  "They had access to th= e Bible, to the works of Shakespeare, Byron, Scott and many other writers."(= Hafen, Vol. I, 325)  Meek apparently knew the Bard well enough to quote= him in explaining a prank to John McLoughlin.  According to Tobie, Mee= k said, "=E2=80=A6it is not that I love Brutus less, but my dignity more."&n= bsp; Warren Ferris also refers to Byron but while it is clear Ferris is quit= e familiar with the author, it is not clear the book was in his possession.=20= (Ferris, 298-99) 
Another citation of Shakespeare comes from William Hamilton, quoted at t= he beginning of this article. Hamilton joined a party of free trappers led b= y Bill Williams and George Perkins.  Both of the latter men were experi= enced trappers and undoubtedly among the "old mountain men" referred to by H= amilton.  In the Owl Creek Mountains, the party crossed the trail of a=20= small party of mountaineers who had recently been attacked by Blackfeet.&nbs= p; Hamilton described the three survivors as "nervy=E2=80=A6one was a Scotch= man, one a Frenchman from St. Louis, and the third came from Kentucky=E2=80= =A6I found the Scotchman and the Kentuckian well educated men.  The lat= ter presented me with a copy of Shakespeare and an ancient and modern histor= y which he had in his pack." (Hamilton, 68)
       Tobie does not provide sources for his=20= claim that the books he names were present in the mountains although it is p= robably Osborne Russell.  Writing from the vicinity of Fort Hall during= the winter of 1839, Russelll states he and his party "passed an agreeable w= inter=E2=80=A6We had some few Books to read such as Byrons Shakespeares and=20= Scotts works  the Bible and Clarks Commentary on it and other small wor= ks on Geology Chemistry and Philosophy--" (Russell, 109)  Classics in t= heir day as well as now, Sir Walter Scott penned a long series of works call= ed the Waverly novels, but he may be best known as the author of Ivanhoe.&nb= sp; Lord George Gordon Byron was an English romantic poet who wrote with an=20= underlying theme insisting that people be free to choose their own course in= life; just the sort of reading that a mountaineer might fancy.  Byron'= s masterpiece was undoubtedly the legend of the epic hero, Don Juan.
Here again is mention of both Shakespeare and the Bible.  Another relig= ious oriented item is the Bible Commentary written by Adam Clarke.  Thi= s was a multi-volume work begun in 1810.  How many of the eight volumes= were accessible is not clear. 
Apparently, reading the Bible and Clarke's Commentary had a tremendous impac= t on Russell that changed him spiritually.  A deep religious conviction= developed as he carefully studied the Bible while trapping the area around=20= Gray's Marsh with partner Elbridge Trask.  According to Reverend George= H. Atkinson, Russell became convinced of the Bible's truth and knew he had=20= not lived up to its principles.  He then abandoned his life as a mounta= ineer and went to the Willamette Valley with the wagon train led by Elijah W= hite in 1842.  (Russell, viii)
       It is also interesting that Russell men= tions texts on geology, chemistry and philosophy.   By that time,=20= the Hudson's Bay Company owned Fort Hall, Nathaniel Wyeth having sold out in= 1836.  Factor John McLoughlin maintained a circulating library at Fort= Vancouver, sending books to various out lying posts on a rotating basis.&nb= sp; It is likely Russell borrowed the publications mentioned in his journal=20= from the HBC staff at Fort Hall.  In May of 1840 Russell and his partne= r, Trask, separated leaving him alone with his two horses and "some books I=20= brot from the Fort. (Russell, viii, 111)
       These are but a few of the titles that=20= appear in the primary record.  There are others, but enough are present= ed here to establish the literary worthiness of the well-read trapper. = It is plain to see that the mountaineer in the Rocky Mountains was aware of= classical literature and kept relatively current on the best sellers of tha= t era.


References:

Cline, Gloria G. "Job Francis Dye," in Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the= Far West. Vol. I. Leroy Hafen, ed. Arthur H. Clark, Glendale, CA  1= 965.
Drury, Clifford M. First White Women Over the Rockies. Vol. I. Arthur Clark=20= Co. Glendale, CA. 1963.
Dunham, Harold H. "Manuel Alvarez," in Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the= Far West. Vol. I. Leroy Hafen, ed. Arthur H. Clark, Glendale, CA  1= 965.
Ferris, Warren A. Life in the Rocky Mountains. Leroy R. Hafen, ed. Old West=20= Publishing Co. Denver, CO. 1983.
Hafen, Leroy R. "Louis Vasquez," The Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the F= ar West.  Vol. II.  Leroy Hafen, ed. Arthur H. Clark Co., Glen= dale, CA  1965.
Hamilton, William T. My Sixty Years on the Plains. E.T. Seiber, ed. Long's C= ollege Book Co. Columbus, OH. 1951
Irving, Washington. Astoria. Binfords & Mort. Portland, OR.
Jackson, Donald, ed. Letters of the Lewis and Clark Expedition with Related=20= Documents, 1783-1854.  University of Illinois Press, Chicago. 1978.<= BR> James, Edwin. Account of an Expedition From Pittsburgh to the Rocky Mountain= s. Reuben G. Thwaites, ed. Early Western Travels, Vol. XIV. AMS Press, I= nc. New York. 1966.
Maximilian, Phillip. Travels in the Interior of North America. Reuben G. Thw= aites, ed. Early Western Travels, Vol. XXII. AMS Press, Inc. New York. 1966= .
Morgan, Dale. The West of William Ashley. Old West Publishing, Denver, CO. 1= 964.
Ross, Alexander. Adventures of the First Settlers on the Oregon or Columbia=20= River. Reuben G. Thwaites, ed. Early Western Travels, Vol. VII. AMS Pres= s, Inc. New York. 1966.
Russell, Osborne. Journal of a Trapper. Aubrey L. Haines, ed. Oregon Histori= cal Society, Champoeg Press. Portland, OR.  1955.
Tobie, Harvey E. "Joseph L. Meek" The Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the=20= Far West.  Vol. I.  Leroy Hafen, ed. Arthur H. Clark Co., Glend= ale, CA  1965.
Victor, Frances, F. The River of the West. R.W. Bliss & Co. Hartford, CT= . 1870.
Wyeth, John B. Oregon; or A Short History of a Long Journey From the Atlanti= c Ocean to the Region of the Pacific by Land.  Readex Microprint Cor= p. 1966.
 --part1_102.2f559a12.2c15656d_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had - Here is the Article Date: 08 Jun 2003 21:46:11 -0700
Thanks Jim,    Randy
 
 
 
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List:Books and other things Mt. Man Had Date: 09 Jun 2003 00:56:03 EDT Hello the camp My reason for asking what books a Mt Man may have had is. I am trying to compile a selection of items that might have been at a mess camp as part of a brigade. We as a group tend to over look the structure of the mess as part of the brigade. And how the brigades a whole could have many things to accomplish a special task. The brigade could have had some of these books, camp equipment such as shovel, ax, pick, adz a limited black smith shop some stock iron that could have served as fire irons and various trade items mirrors, awls, beads ect. Having these items at a public demonstration would show a more realistic camp. Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tipis@attbi.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Books the Mt. Man Had Date: 09 Jun 2003 14:56:39 +0000 It came through for me. Linda Holley > Jim > I ran into this problem trying to send my library list as an attachment on > the list. Maybe you can copy it into a post or two if it is too long. Or send > it to me as a private email. > Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dennis Knapp Subject: MtMan-List: Bear Lake Canoe Trip Date: 09 Jun 2003 14:14:12 -0600 I am planning a canoe trip probably in August. Have any of you, especially in the Poison River Party canoed any part of Bear Lake. I'm looking at a 4-5 day trip. I need some info on places to camp along the way, wether the east or west side is better, put in and take out spots, etc. Any help would be appreciated. Contact me at ... sticher@ktft38.com or 208-543-8859. Thanks in advance. Regards, Dennis Knapp aka Sticher Southern Idaho ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RUSSELL RAWLE" Date: 09 Jun 2003 22:28:04 +0000 unsubscribe _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bear Lake Canoe Trip Date: 09 Jun 2003 22:24:33 -0600 Mr Knapp It is good to hear from you again. What are the boys doing this summer? I am not a canoer nor have I spent much time on Bear Lake but it is pretty close to home so I will give a little advice. The west side has a lot of beaches and roads which makes getting in and out easy but also means population. As far as I know the whole lake is open to motorized travel but I dont know if that is a problem for canoes or not. The East side looks steep and rocky and is supposed to have some springs etc if I understand correctly. It might be worth exploring. If you decided to do parts of the river instead of the lake there is Cutler Reservoir which has a part that is closed to motorized boats and is a shallow boggy kind of place where canoeing would be fairly safe. In August the mosquitoes could probably carry you the mile or so to my place for a nights camp. I could put you out in the back where you can hunt skunks and sleep near horse shit just like real mountain men! I believe there are other parts of the river up above Preston that are mildly mountainous and may be more exciting and scenic. Wynn Ormond ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 2:14 PM > I am planning a canoe trip probably in August. Have any of you, especially in the > Poison River Party canoed any part of Bear Lake. I'm looking at a 4-5 day trip. I need > some info on places to camp along the way, wether the east or west side is better, put > in and take out spots, etc. Any help would be appreciated. Contact me at ... > sticher@ktft38.com or 208-543-8859. Thanks in advance. > Regards, > Dennis Knapp aka Sticher > Southern Idaho > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: OFF TOPIC: grandson becoming a man Date: 10 Jun 2003 21:38:05 -0500 My grandson will be seventeen months old day after tomorrow. Tonight he took a tentative step on the road to becoming not just a man, but a Texas man........he ate (a little) chili for the first time and LOVED it. Whataguy!! I just hope he doesn't blow the bottom out of his Huggie sometime tonight. If you don't have any grandchildren get some soon. If I had know they were so much fun I would have had them (3) first. proud grandpa Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Banks" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 10 Jun 2003 20:58:15 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C32F93.0300FC00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dorothy, Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain Man:" gives an = answer to your question. They had to stay a winter on the upper Laramie = River and this was their experience. You can read about it starting on = page 19 - 21. The cottonwood bark here had a different characteristic = from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream on the Laramie = River. Unfortunatly the horses starved because they refused to eat the = bark in this winter camp. Only the mules survived. I've investigated = this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the bitterness was = caused by some mineral that was absorbed in the tree. There is a lot of = a low grade aluminum mineral around the Laramie area and this might be a = possibility. For your interest, I have retraced Leonard's route from = the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at Chambers Lake at the = foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado. Hope this helps some. Steve Banks ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DOROTHY MORRIS=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up at a = trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter? I hear the horses ate the = inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and by whom? = Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for wolves? Were = there enough cottonwood trees? What else did they eat? What were the = logistics of this situation? Anyone know? Love to hear from you. DKM ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C32F93.0300FC00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dorothy,
Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a = Mountain=20 Man:" gives an answer to your question.  They had to stay a winter = on the=20 upper Laramie River and this was their experience.  You can read = about it=20 starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood bark here had a different = characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream on = the=20 Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses starved because they = refused to eat=20 the bark in this winter camp.  Only the mules survived.  I've=20 investigated this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the = bitterness=20 was caused by some mineral that was absorbed in the tree.  There is = a lot=20 of a low grade aluminum mineral around the Laramie area and this might = be a=20 possibility.  For your interest, I have retraced Leonard's route = from the=20 mouth of the Laramie River to its source at Chambers Lake at the foot of = Cameron=20 Pass in Colorado.  Hope this helps some.
Steve Banks
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DOROTHY = MORRIS=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 = 12:57=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain = Man's=20 horse

Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up = at a=20 trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear the horses = ate the=20 inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and by = whom? Did=20 the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for=20 wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees?  What else = did they=20 eat?  What were the logistics of this situation?  Anyone = know? =20 Love to hear from you.
 
DKM
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C32F93.0300FC00-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OFF TOPIC: grandson becoming a man Date: 10 Jun 2003 23:14:07 -0400 I just became a Grandpa for the first time. Going to see him in July... Heh... Told my Son it was MY turn to spoil him then send him home just like his Pop did... Was born March 10, 10# 2 0z brby boy... His Dad is 6'3", and his Mom is 6'... Takes after the family... BIG boy!! Ad Miller > If you don't have any grandchildren get some soon. If I > had know they were so much fun I would have had them (3) first. > > proud grandpa > Lanney Ratcliff ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bear Kelsey" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OFF TOPIC: grandson becoming a man Date: 10 Jun 2003 21:18:33 -0700 Takes after the family... BIG boy!! Got my Grand-son from Alaska here with me in Oregon. He will be here till August. We plan on doing a lot of fishing and shooting through the time he will be here. This one is the big one in this family, he is 15 and stands 6' 4 " and tips the scales at about 220 lbs. Got two more Grand-sons on their way from the East coast, one is tall and skinny and the other medium tall and a little stocky. The tall and skinny one is 16 and the other one is 13. Gonna be a busy summer for sure !!!! "Two Bears" ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OFF TOPIC: grandson becoming a man Date: 10 Jun 2003 22:51:34 -0700 Hey...I got the two of the cutest, smartest and can spit farthest (we were having a watermelon seed spitting contest) grandsons you've ever seen. One is just over two years, the other 18 months. I'm glad to see there are other proud grand-dads here on the board. Gonna take 'em fishing here shortly, as soon as I get the boat un-winterized. Be a few years before I can take 'em hunting. Hope I can still hobble around by then. They're a handful, but I love being with them. I don't understand grandparents that don't want to have much to do with their grandkids till they get big enough to take care of themselves. They sure miss a whole bunch. Here's to happy times with the grandkids Ben ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:14 PM > I just became a Grandpa for the first time. Going to see him in July... > Heh... Told my Son it was MY turn to spoil him then send him home just like > his Pop did... Was born March 10, 10# 2 0z brby boy... His Dad is 6'3", and > his Mom is 6'... Takes after the family... BIG boy!! > > Ad Miller > > > If you don't have any grandchildren get some soon. If I > > had know they were so much fun I would have had them (3) first. > > > > proud grandpa > > Lanney Ratcliff > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JIM BRYAN" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OFF TOPIC: grandson becoming a man Date: 10 Jun 2003 23:49:44 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C32FAA.F8030880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just had my second one Sunday.....already planning his longhunter = outfit.. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: History List=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 9:38 PM Subject: MtMan-List: OFF TOPIC: grandson becoming a man My grandson will be seventeen months old day after tomorrow. Tonight = he took a tentative step on the road to becoming not just a man, but a = Texas man........he ate (a little) chili for the first time and LOVED it. Whataguy!! I just hope he doesn't blow the bottom out of his Huggie sometime tonight. If you don't have any grandchildren get some soon. = If I had know they were so much fun I would have had them (3) first. proud grandpa Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ---------------------- hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C32FAA.F8030880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just had my second one Sunday.....already planning his longhunter=20 outfit..
----- Original Message -----
From: Lanney Ratcliff
To: History List
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 = 9:38=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: OFF TOPIC: = grandson=20 becoming a man





 My grandson will be seventeen = months old=20 day after tomorrow.  Tonight he
took a tentative step on the = road to=20 becoming not just a man, but a Texas
man........he ate (a little) = chili for=20 the first time and LOVED it.
Whataguy!!  I just hope he = doesn't blow=20 the bottom out of his Huggie
sometime tonight.  If  you = don't=20 have any grandchildren get some soon.  If I
had know they were = so much=20 fun I would have had them (3) first.

 proud=20 grandpa
 Lanney Ratcliff
 lanneyratcliff@charter.net=
______________________________________________________________
&nb= sp;Aux=20 Aliments du = Pays




----------------------
hist_text list=20 info: http://www.xm= ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C32FAA.F8030880-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: MtMan-List: OFF TOPIC bcoming a man Date: 11 Jun 2003 07:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Congrats Lanney-now get him started on Texas Champagne in that chili! My oldest grandson should be coming home soon, all 6'3", 200 pounds of Marine Corporal, from the Gulf. Just happy to know he so far has made it through okay. Dog, Extreme North Texas __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bear Kelsey" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OFF TOPIC bcoming a man Date: 11 Jun 2003 07:41:09 -0700 My oldest grandson should be coming home soon, all 6'3", 200 pounds of Marine Corporal, from the Gulf. Give him a big thank you from me !!!! "Two Bears" ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DOROTHY MORRIS" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 11 Jun 2003 11:30:25 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C3300C.DA4CC170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Steve Banks, This adds to my growing knowledge of horses in the Rocky Mountain = Winters and is helping to shape how I will approach the issue in my = novel. Regards,=20 Dorothy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Banks=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 7:58 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Dorothy, Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain Man:" gives an = answer to your question. They had to stay a winter on the upper Laramie = River and this was their experience. You can read about it starting on = page 19 - 21. The cottonwood bark here had a different characteristic = from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream on the Laramie = River. Unfortunatly the horses starved because they refused to eat the = bark in this winter camp. Only the mules survived. I've investigated = this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the bitterness was = caused by some mineral that was absorbed in the tree. There is a lot of = a low grade aluminum mineral around the Laramie area and this might be a = possibility. For your interest, I have retraced Leonard's route from = the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at Chambers Lake at the = foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado. Hope this helps some. Steve Banks ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DOROTHY MORRIS=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up at = a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter? I hear the horses ate = the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and by = whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for wolves? = Were there enough cottonwood trees? What else did they eat? What were = the logistics of this situation? Anyone know? Love to hear from you. DKM ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C3300C.DA4CC170 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Steve Banks,
 
This adds to my growing knowledge of horses in the Rocky Mountain = Winters=20 and is helping to shape how I will approach the issue in my novel.
 
Regards,
Dorothy
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 = 7:58=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Dorothy,
Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a = Mountain=20 Man:" gives an answer to your question.  They had to stay a = winter on the=20 upper Laramie River and this was their experience.  You can read = about it=20 starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood bark here had a = different=20 characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream on = the=20 Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses starved because they = refused to=20 eat the bark in this winter camp.  Only the mules survived.  = I've=20 investigated this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the=20 bitterness was caused by some mineral that was absorbed in the = tree. =20 There is a lot of a low grade aluminum mineral around the Laramie area = and=20 this might be a possibility.  For your interest, I have retraced=20 Leonard's route from the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at = Chambers=20 Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado.  Hope this helps=20 some.
Steve Banks
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DOROTHY = MORRIS=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 = 12:57=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain = Man's=20 horse

Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while = up at a=20 trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear the = horses ate=20 the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and = by whom?=20 Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for=20 wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees?  What = else did=20 they eat?  What were the logistics of this situation?  = Anyone=20 know?  Love to hear from you.
 
DKM
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C3300C.DA4CC170-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Traphand@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: tooth paste or powder Date: 11 Jun 2003 19:00:02 EDT --part1_b8.420a670c.2c190e72_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know you guys can help me with this one. What did you carry for tooth paste in the woods? Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com --part1_b8.420a670c.2c190e72_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know you guys can help me with this one. What did yo= u carry  for tooth paste in the woods?

Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
Traphand@aol.com
 --part1_b8.420a670c.2c190e72_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tooth paste or powder Date: 11 Jun 2003 17:19:01 -0600 --------------060902000304010501040206 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nothing James Traphand@aol.com wrote: > I know you guys can help me with this one. What did you carry for > tooth paste in the woods? > > Traphand > Rick Petzoldt > Traphand@aol.com --------------060902000304010501040206 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nothing
James

Traphand@aol.com wrote:
I know you guys can help me with this one. What did you carry  for tooth paste in the woods?

Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
Traphand@aol.com

--------------060902000304010501040206-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tooth paste or powder Date: 11 Jun 2003 19:22:09 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3304E.C0CC4260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I sometimes have a bit of baking powder with some powdered ginger in it. = Sometimes I just put a bit of "snake medicine" in my mouth, brush good = and swallow... D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James and Sue Stone=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:19 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tooth paste or powder Nothing James Traphand@aol.com wrote: I know you guys can help me with this one. What did you carry for = tooth paste in the woods? Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3304E.C0CC4260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I sometimes have a bit of baking powder = with some=20 powdered ginger in it.  Sometimes I just put a bit of "snake = medicine" in=20 my mouth, brush good and swallow...
D
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 James=20 and Sue Stone
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 = 7:19=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tooth = paste or=20 powder

Nothing
James

Traphand@aol.com wrote:
I=20 know you guys can help me with this one. What did you carry  = for tooth=20 paste in the woods?

Traphand
Rick = Petzoldt
Traphand@aol.com

------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3304E.C0CC4260-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: tooth paste or powder Date: 11 Jun 2003 17:20:22 -0700 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Rick, I carry a burned cap tin full of tooth powder, and a boar bristle toothbrush. I have too much invested in my teeth not to take care of them. Would you shoot your 'smokepole' and not clean it soon...?..... not me. Yfab, Smiley (Randy) ----- Original Message ----- Sent: 6/11/03 4:00:02 PM I know you guys can help me with this one. What did you carry for tooth paste in the woods? Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Rick,    I carry a burned cap tin full of tooth powder, and a boar bristle toothbrush.  I have too much invested in my teeth not to take care of them. Would you shoot your  'smokepole' and not clean it soon...?..... not me.  Yfab, Smiley <g>   (Randy)
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 6/11/03 4:00:02 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: tooth paste or powder

I know you guys can help me with this one. What did you carry  for tooth paste in the woods?

Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
Traphand@aol.com
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tooth paste or powder Date: 11 Jun 2003 18:16:18 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C33045.8DEAAE30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Traphand, I don't know what early frontier people did but I carry a small metal = tin of tooth powder. Arm and Hammer makes it I believe. Sutlers also = carry bone handled boar bristle brushes that will scour a car engine but = go way back. Other than that charcoal works as does plain salt if you = had it to spare along with just chewing a stick to a frazzle and using = it as a scrubber. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C33045.8DEAAE30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Traphand,
 
I don't know what early frontier people = did but I=20 carry a small metal tin of tooth powder. Arm and Hammer makes it I = believe.=20 Sutlers also carry bone handled boar bristle brushes that will scour a = car=20 engine but go way back. Other than that charcoal works as does plain = salt if you=20 had it to spare along with just chewing a stick to a frazzle and using = it as a=20 scrubber.
 
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
 
  ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C33045.8DEAAE30-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tooth paste or powder Date: 11 Jun 2003 19:21:22 -0600 Coarse salt is what I use, but Bent's Fort (like some of the other forts)did carry alot of the "tolieties" like toothbrushes, combs, different "waters" and powders. If it is a short time out, I'm not so worried about tooth care, but on longer trips, foot washings, morning scrubings of the ivories and even a little more than just running the fingers through the hair is something that is all part of camp chores. ----- Original Message ----- > I know you guys can help me with this one. What did you carry for > tooth > paste in the woods? > > Traphand > Rick Petzoldt > Traphand@aol.com > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: L&C lecture by Gary Moulton Date: 11 Jun 2003 22:18:37 EDT Hello the Camp Went to lecture on The Definitive Journals of Lewis and Clark by Gary Moulton. He is the editor of this set of books published by the University of Nebraska where he is a professor. He explained how the previous editors came involved and how more material became available over the years and why he feels there is more to be found. His works are the complete and unabridged journals by Lewis, Clark, Patrick Gass, Fields, Charles Floyd, John Ordway and Joseph Whitehouse. It is a 13 volume set the first is an over sized atlas. His main objective was to present the complete and unchanged the way they were written with all miss spelling and bad grammar. He only added footnotes supported by many scholars in various fields and an index. He also did a condensed version in one volume for the average reader. He explained the a group of letters written by Clark to his brother have been found that were not available to him during his research. These have been published by Jim Holmberg titled Dear Brother. These letters were written after the trip and were much about his problems with York trying to find his place a slave again. Next weeks lecture will be by James Hanson "Up and Across the Wide Missouri" See you down the trail Mark "Roadkill" Loader #1849 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tooth paste or powder Date: 11 Jun 2003 22:06:49 -0600 (MDT) I take a bath and brush my teeth every other Saturday night whether I need to or not.....Unless it's cold out. I also floss religiously, (which means I floss as often as I go to church) bb >> I know you guys can help me with this one. What did you carry for >> tooth >> paste in the woods? >> >> Traphand >> Rick Petzoldt >> Traphand@aol.com >> > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 12 Jun 2003 22:26:46 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01C33131.B56109E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mr Banks=20 It has been a while since I read Zenas but I believe all the animals = died the mules were just slower about it. The men carried everything = out on their own backs. Secondly, there is nothing mysterious like = chemicals in the trees. There are different types of cottonwoods and = the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark the narrow doesn't.=20 However dispite Zenas's experience and as I posted before there is = plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering horses worked most of = the time. Wynn Ormond =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Banks=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:58 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Dorothy, Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain Man:" gives an = answer to your question. They had to stay a winter on the upper Laramie = River and this was their experience. You can read about it starting on = page 19 - 21. The cottonwood bark here had a different characteristic = from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream on the Laramie = River. Unfortunatly the horses starved because they refused to eat the = bark in this winter camp. Only the mules survived. I've investigated = this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the bitterness was = caused by some mineral that was absorbed in the tree. There is a lot of = a low grade aluminum mineral around the Laramie area and this might be a = possibility. For your interest, I have retraced Leonard's route from = the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at Chambers Lake at the = foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado. Hope this helps some. Steve Banks ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DOROTHY MORRIS=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up at = a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter? I hear the horses ate = the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and by = whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for wolves? = Were there enough cottonwood trees? What else did they eat? What were = the logistics of this situation? Anyone know? Love to hear from you. DKM ------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01C33131.B56109E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr Banks
 
It has been a while since I read Zenas but I = believe all=20 the animals died the mules were just slower about it.  The = men carried=20 everything out on their own backs.  Secondly, there is nothing = mysterious=20 like chemicals in the trees.  There are different types of = cottonwoods and=20 the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark the narrow=20 doesn't. 
 
However dispite Zenas's experience and as I = posted before=20 there is plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering horses=20 worked most of the time.
Wynn Ormond
  
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steve = Banks=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 = 8:58=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Dorothy,
Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a = Mountain=20 Man:" gives an answer to your question.  They had to stay a = winter on the=20 upper Laramie River and this was their experience.  You can read = about it=20 starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood bark here had a = different=20 characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream on = the=20 Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses starved because they = refused to=20 eat the bark in this winter camp.  Only the mules survived.  = I've=20 investigated this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the=20 bitterness was caused by some mineral that was absorbed in the = tree. =20 There is a lot of a low grade aluminum mineral around the Laramie area = and=20 this might be a possibility.  For your interest, I have retraced=20 Leonard's route from the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at = Chambers=20 Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado.  Hope this helps=20 some.
Steve Banks
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DOROTHY = MORRIS=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 = 12:57=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain = Man's=20 horse

Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while = up at a=20 trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear the = horses ate=20 the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and = by whom?=20 Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for=20 wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees?  What = else did=20 they eat?  What were the logistics of this situation?  = Anyone=20 know?  Love to hear from you.
 
DKM
------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01C33131.B56109E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List:Trip to Montana Date: 13 Jun 2003 14:02:28 EDT Hello the Camp I am making a trip to Montana for a doings SW of Butte the first of July. Haven't been past Billings before. What are some must see and worth seeing along the way from Billings west That relate to the fur trade and L&C? Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Trip to Montana Date: 13 Jun 2003 18:57:02 -0600 Masrk, I'd have to look on a map, but with luck you are between Livingston and Butte where you can go to the three forks of the Missouri west of Bozeman. Bozeman Pass itself between Livingston and Bozeman was one James "Ol Gabe" Bridger used if not pioneered. Depending upon where you are coming from, Idaho has Pierre's Hole, which is the valley west of Jackson Hole...back side of the Tetons, as well as a replica of Ft. Hall in Pocatello. Wyoming has South Pass, not to mention the site of the first rondezvous near the Hamms Fork of the Henry's Fork, Ft. Bridger and the Yellowstone country. The South Platte heads somewhere in that vicinity. Utah has places made famous by Ashley in 1825. Also there are lots of places Lewis and Clark wrote about and visited through Montana, Idaho and points both east and west. I hope you don't run out of time. Sparks MarkLoader@aol.com wrote: >Hello the Camp >I am making a trip to Montana for a doings SW of Butte the first of July. >Haven't been past Billings before. What are some must see and worth seeing along >the way from Billings west That relate to the fur trade and L&C? >Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Banks" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 14 Jun 2003 10:37:50 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C33261.00F86080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mr. Ormond, I had to check my source again and I would refer you to the following: page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, paraphrasing, "the horses were dead = and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize on the two mules and = themselves" page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the two mules are alive but = weak and the party stops because they've found sweet cottonwood and are = allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering". I believe the = mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River in = June. The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood trees was that of a = botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of Wyoming. In the = area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone can tell, there is = only one species of cottonwood. And that provides the mystery of why at = the downstream area of the river the tree bark was edible. I don't know = if in the winter of 1831 that there were two species of cottonwood = growing in that area. I have been in that area a number of times, = hunting, fishing etc, and in my limited knowledge of botany, have not = noticed more than one type of cottonwood. In fact there are very few = trees even left!! I have wondered where that trapping party found = enough trees to build what buildings they had. There is know remaining = evidence of their camp, so the mystery remains! Steve Banks=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wynn Ormond=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Mr Banks=20 =20 It has been a while since I read Zenas but I believe all the animals = died the mules were just slower about it. The men carried everything = out on their own backs. Secondly, there is nothing mysterious like = chemicals in the trees. There are different types of cottonwoods and = the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark the narrow doesn't.=20 =20 However dispite Zenas's experience and as I posted before there is = plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering horses worked most of = the time. Wynn Ormond =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Banks=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:58 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Dorothy, Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain Man:" gives = an answer to your question. They had to stay a winter on the upper = Laramie River and this was their experience. You can read about it = starting on page 19 - 21. The cottonwood bark here had a different = characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream on = the Laramie River. Unfortunatly the horses starved because they refused = to eat the bark in this winter camp. Only the mules survived. I've = investigated this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the = bitterness was caused by some mineral that was absorbed in the tree. = There is a lot of a low grade aluminum mineral around the Laramie area = and this might be a possibility. For your interest, I have retraced = Leonard's route from the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at = Chambers Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado. Hope this helps = some. Steve Banks ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DOROTHY MORRIS=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up = at a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter? I hear the horses = ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and = by whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for = wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees? What else did they eat? = What were the logistics of this situation? Anyone know? Love to hear = from you. =20 DKM ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C33261.00F86080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr. Ormond,
I had to check my source again and I would refer = you to=20 the following:
page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, = paraphrasing, =20 "the horses were dead and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize = on the=20 two mules and themselves"
page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the = two mules=20 are alive but weak and the party stops because they've found sweet = cottonwood=20 and are allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering".  I = believe=20 the mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River in=20 June.
The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood = trees was=20 that of a botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of = Wyoming. =20 In the area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone can tell, = there is=20 only one species of cottonwood.  And that provides the mystery of = why at=20 the downstream area of the river the tree bark was edible.  I don't = know if=20 in the winter of 1831 that there were two species of cottonwood growing = in that=20 area.  I have been in that area a number of times, hunting, fishing = etc,=20 and in my limited knowledge of botany, have not noticed more than one = type of=20 cottonwood.  In fact there are very few trees even left!!  I = have=20 wondered where that trapping party found enough trees to build what = buildings=20 they had.  There is know remaining evidence of their camp, so the = mystery=20 remains!
Steve Banks 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Wynn = Ormond=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 = 10:26=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Mr Banks
 
It has been a while since I read Zenas but I = believe all=20 the animals died the mules were just slower about it.  The=20 men carried everything out on their own backs.  Secondly, = there is=20 nothing mysterious like chemicals in the trees.  There are = different=20 types of cottonwoods and the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark = the narrow=20 doesn't. 
 
However dispite Zenas's experience and as I = posted=20 before there is plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering = horses=20 worked most of the time.
Wynn Ormond
  
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steve Banks=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 = 8:58=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Dorothy,
Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of = a Mountain=20 Man:" gives an answer to your question.  They had to stay a = winter on=20 the upper Laramie River and this was their experience.  You can = read=20 about it starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood bark here = had a=20 different characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower=20 downstream on the Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses = starved=20 because they refused to eat the bark in this winter camp.  Only = the=20 mules survived.  I've investigated this with a friend of mine = and his=20 opinion was that the bitterness was caused by some mineral that was = absorbed=20 in the tree.  There is a lot of a low grade aluminum mineral = around the=20 Laramie area and this might be a possibility.  For your = interest, I=20 have retraced Leonard's route from the mouth of the Laramie River to = its=20 source at Chambers Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass in = Colorado.  Hope=20 this helps some.
Steve Banks
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 DOROTHY = MORRIS=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 = 12:57=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse = while up at=20 a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear the = horses=20 ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered = and by=20 whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for=20 wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees?  What = else did=20 they eat?  What were the logistics of this situation?  = Anyone=20 know?  Love to hear from you.
 
=
DKM
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C33261.00F86080-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DOROTHY MORRIS" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 14 Jun 2003 11:51:07 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C3326B.3DE03860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Mr. Ormand and Mr. Banks, Thank you both for your information on the Mountain Men's horses that I = originally requested. I have learned a great deal.=20 Now another question and this regards the actual months that a Mountain = Man spent working his trapping area. Did he go up into the mountains in = Autumn and remain until Spring or did he only go toward the springtime?=20 Dorothy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Banks=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:37 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Mr. Ormond, I had to check my source again and I would refer you to the following: page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, paraphrasing, "the horses were = dead and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize on the two mules = and themselves" page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the two mules are alive but = weak and the party stops because they've found sweet cottonwood and are = allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering". I believe the = mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River in = June. The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood trees was that of a = botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of Wyoming. In the = area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone can tell, there is = only one species of cottonwood. And that provides the mystery of why at = the downstream area of the river the tree bark was edible. I don't know = if in the winter of 1831 that there were two species of cottonwood = growing in that area. I have been in that area a number of times, = hunting, fishing etc, and in my limited knowledge of botany, have not = noticed more than one type of cottonwood. In fact there are very few = trees even left!! I have wondered where that trapping party found = enough trees to build what buildings they had. There is know remaining = evidence of their camp, so the mystery remains! Steve Banks=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wynn Ormond=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Mr Banks=20 It has been a while since I read Zenas but I believe all the animals = died the mules were just slower about it. The men carried everything = out on their own backs. Secondly, there is nothing mysterious like = chemicals in the trees. There are different types of cottonwoods and = the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark the narrow doesn't.=20 However dispite Zenas's experience and as I posted before there is = plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering horses worked most of = the time. Wynn Ormond =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Banks=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:58 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Dorothy, Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain Man:" gives = an answer to your question. They had to stay a winter on the upper = Laramie River and this was their experience. You can read about it = starting on page 19 - 21. The cottonwood bark here had a different = characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream on = the Laramie River. Unfortunatly the horses starved because they refused = to eat the bark in this winter camp. Only the mules survived. I've = investigated this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the = bitterness was caused by some mineral that was absorbed in the tree. = There is a lot of a low grade aluminum mineral around the Laramie area = and this might be a possibility. For your interest, I have retraced = Leonard's route from the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at = Chambers Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado. Hope this helps = some. Steve Banks ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DOROTHY MORRIS=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while = up at a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter? I hear the horses = ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and = by whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for = wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees? What else did they eat? = What were the logistics of this situation? Anyone know? Love to hear = from you. DKM ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C3326B.3DE03860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Mr. Ormand and Mr. Banks,
 
Thank you both for your information on the Mountain Men's horses = that I=20 originally requested.  I have learned a great deal. 
 
Now another question and this regards the actual months that a=20 Mountain Man spent working his trapping area. Did he go up = into the=20 mountains in Autumn and remain until Spring or did he only go = toward the=20 springtime? 
 
Dorothy
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 = 9:37=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Mr. Ormond,
I had to check my source again and I would = refer you to=20 the following:
page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, = paraphrasing, =20 "the horses were dead and the men were figuring to pack their = mechandize on=20 the two mules and themselves"
page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the = two mules=20 are alive but weak and the party stops because they've found sweet = cottonwood=20 and are allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering".  I = believe=20 the mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River = in=20 June.
The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood = trees was=20 that of a botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of=20 Wyoming.  In the area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as = anyone can=20 tell, there is only one species of cottonwood.  And that provides = the=20 mystery of why at the downstream area of the river the tree bark was=20 edible.  I don't know if in the winter of 1831 that there were = two=20 species of cottonwood growing in that area.  I have been in that = area a=20 number of times, hunting, fishing etc, and in my limited knowledge of = botany,=20 have not noticed more than one type of cottonwood.  In fact there = are=20 very few trees even left!!  I have wondered where that trapping = party=20 found enough trees to build what buildings they had.  There is = know=20 remaining evidence of their camp, so the mystery remains!
Steve Banks 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Wynn = Ormond=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 = 10:26=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Mr Banks
 
It has been a while since I read Zenas but I = believe=20 all the animals died the mules were just slower about it.  The=20 men carried everything out on their own backs.  Secondly, = there is=20 nothing mysterious like chemicals in the trees.  There are = different=20 types of cottonwoods and the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark = the=20 narrow doesn't. 
 
However dispite Zenas's experience and as I = posted=20 before there is plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering = horses=20 worked most of the time.
Wynn Ormond
  
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Steve=20 Banks
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, = 2003 8:58=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain=20 Man's horse

Dorothy,
Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures = of a=20 Mountain Man:" gives an answer to your question.  They had to = stay a=20 winter on the upper Laramie River and this was their = experience.  You=20 can read about it starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood = bark here=20 had a different characteristic from the bark they had been feeding = lower=20 downstream on the Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses = starved=20 because they refused to eat the bark in this winter camp.  = Only the=20 mules survived.  I've investigated this with a friend of mine = and his=20 opinion was that the bitterness was caused by some mineral that = was=20 absorbed in the tree.  There is a lot of a low grade aluminum = mineral=20 around the Laramie area and this might be a possibility.  For = your=20 interest, I have retraced Leonard's route from the mouth of the = Laramie=20 River to its source at Chambers Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass = in=20 Colorado.  Hope this helps some.
Steve Banks
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 DOROTHY=20 MORRIS
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Sunday, June 08, = 2003 12:57=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse = while up=20 at a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear = the=20 horses ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it = gathered and by whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and = risk being=20 food for wolves? Were there enough cottonwood = trees? =20 What else did they eat?  What were the logistics of this=20 situation?  Anyone know?  Love to hear from you.
 
=
DKM
<= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C3326B.3DE03860-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Trip to Montana Date: 14 Jun 2003 13:06:03 -0600 (MDT) Mouth of the Bighorn river on the Yellowstone is the site of Fort Manuel Lisa. The first fur trade post or building for that matter in Montana. Nothing remains of the post but it is a beautiful place to see. bb > Masrk, > I'd have to look on a map, but with luck you are between Livingston and > Butte where you can go to the three forks of the Missouri west of > Bozeman. Bozeman Pass itself between Livingston and Bozeman was one > James "Ol Gabe" Bridger used if not pioneered. Depending upon where you > are coming from, Idaho has Pierre's Hole, which is the valley west of > Jackson Hole...back side of the Tetons, as well as a replica of Ft. Hall > in Pocatello. Wyoming has South Pass, not to mention the site of the > first rondezvous near the Hamms Fork of the Henry's Fork, Ft. Bridger > and the Yellowstone country. The South Platte heads somewhere in that > vicinity. Utah has places made famous by Ashley in 1825. Also there > are lots of places Lewis and Clark wrote about and visited through > Montana, Idaho and points both east and west. > > I hope you don't run out of time. > Sparks > > MarkLoader@aol.com wrote: > >>Hello the Camp >>I am making a trip to Montana for a doings SW of Butte the first of July. >>Haven't been past Billings before. What are some must see and worth >> seeing along >>the way from Billings west That relate to the fur trade and L&C? >>Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> >> > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 14 Jun 2003 13:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Most "mountain men" or trappers as they should be properly be called stayed in the beaver country year round or traveled to a distant fort or rendezvous for supplies as needed. The large majority of the beaver caught in the west were most likely caught in the rivered basins of the west. The vast Dakota's and eastern plains of Wyoming, Montana,Colorado provided a huge amount of the fur trade era. Which is ironically far from the mountains. Regardless of where they were they most likely found nice warm valleys or forts to winter in. And they trapped year round untill the rivers froze rock solid or the beaver were all gone. The fall hunt commenced after the rendezvous and ran untill freeze up, the spring season ran from ice off untill all the beaver were gone or it was time to travel to the rendezvous site and they trapped along the way to it as well. A least this is what I've been reading in journals. beaverboy > Dear Mr. Ormand and Mr. Banks, > > Thank you both for your information on the Mountain Men's horses that I > originally requested. I have learned a great deal. > > Now another question and this regards the actual months that a Mountain > Man spent working his trapping area. Did he go up into the mountains in > Autumn and remain until Spring or did he only go toward the springtime? > > Dorothy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Banks > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:37 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse > > > Mr. Ormond, > I had to check my source again and I would refer you to the following: > page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, paraphrasing, "the horses were dead > and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize on the two mules and > themselves" > page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the two mules are alive but > weak and the party stops because they've found sweet cottonwood and are > allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering". I believe the > mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River in > June. > The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood trees was that of a > botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of Wyoming. In the > area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone can tell, there is > only one species of cottonwood. And that provides the mystery of why at > the downstream area of the river the tree bark was edible. I don't know > if in the winter of 1831 that there were two species of cottonwood > growing in that area. I have been in that area a number of times, > hunting, fishing etc, and in my limited knowledge of botany, have not > noticed more than one type of cottonwood. In fact there are very few > trees even left!! I have wondered where that trapping party found > enough trees to build what buildings they had. There is know remaining > evidence of their camp, so the mystery remains! > Steve Banks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wynn Ormond > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:26 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse > > > Mr Banks > > It has been a while since I read Zenas but I believe all the animals > died the mules were just slower about it. The men carried everything > out on their own backs. Secondly, there is nothing mysterious like > chemicals in the trees. There are different types of cottonwoods and > the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark the narrow doesn't. > > However dispite Zenas's experience and as I posted before there is > plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering horses worked most of > the time. > Wynn Ormond > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Banks > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:58 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse > > > Dorothy, > Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain Man:" gives > an answer to your question. They had to stay a winter on the upper > Laramie River and this was their experience. You can read about it > starting on page 19 - 21. The cottonwood bark here had a different > characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream > on the Laramie River. Unfortunatly the horses starved because they > refused to eat the bark in this winter camp. Only the mules > survived. I've investigated this with a friend of mine and his > opinion was that the bitterness was caused by some mineral that was > absorbed in the tree. There is a lot of a low grade aluminum > mineral around the Laramie area and this might be a possibility. > For your interest, I have retraced Leonard's route from the mouth of > the Laramie River to its source at Chambers Lake at the foot of > Cameron Pass in Colorado. Hope this helps some. > Steve Banks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DOROTHY MORRIS > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse > > > Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up > at a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter? I hear the > horses ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it > gathered and by whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk > being food for wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees? What > else did they eat? What were the logistics of this situation? > Anyone know? Love to hear from you. > > DKM ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Trip to Montana Date: 14 Jun 2003 13:19:57 -0600 (MDT) Pompey's Pillar is also interesing to see and is only 30 miles or so east of Billings. It has Clark's name scratced on it and is the only tangible evidence of the expedition in the west. bb > Hello the Camp > I am making a trip to Montana for a doings SW of Butte the first of July. > Haven't been past Billings before. What are some must see and worth seeing > along > the way from Billings west That relate to the fur trade and L&C? > Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 14 Jun 2003 16:33:48 -0600 --------------070605010107010601000401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree w/ Beaverboy on them staying in beaver country, and that many came from the larger river valley bottoms. They did trap headwaters, as lots of places the valleys get very broad and somewhat flatbottomed so water can slow and beaver dam the areas. You need to look at weather in the west. Winters are right harsh, especially in those nice river 'holes' like Jackson Hole, and in Idaho's Stanley Basin (like 45 to 60 below zero). I would guess that most would be down in the lower river valleys that time of year where the water was still moving (although I have seen water running in the Salmon River when it was 30 below...lots of slush ice with it). Jim Bridger used to talk about the three seasons in the Rocky Mountains. Those being July, August and winter. As it is now, lots of places in the high country we don't get wildflowers until June and even sometimes July because they don't like to come up through several feet of melting snow. One ski area near here (n. utah) was bragging last winter about receiving "100-inches in 100 hours" that being snow. Not bad for being in the fifth year of drought. Sparks DOROTHY MORRIS wrote: > Dear Mr. Ormand and Mr. Banks, > > Thank you both for your information on the Mountain Men's horses that > I originally requested. I have learned a great deal. > > Now another question and this regards the actual months that a > Mountain Man spent working his trapping area. Did he go up into the > mountains in Autumn and remain until Spring or did he only go toward > the springtime? > > Dorothy > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Banks > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:37 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse > > Mr. Ormond, > I had to check my source again and I would refer you to the following: > page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, paraphrasing, "the horses were > dead and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize on the two > mules and themselves" > page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the two mules are alive > but weak and the party stops because they've found sweet > cottonwood and are allowing the mules to "recruit from their > suffering". I believe the mules and men did make it back to the > mouth of the Laramie River in June. > The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood trees was that of a > botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of Wyoming. > In the area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone can > tell, there is only one species of cottonwood. And that provides > the mystery of why at the downstream area of the river the tree > bark was edible. I don't know if in the winter of 1831 that there > were two species of cottonwood growing in that area. I have been > in that area a number of times, hunting, fishing etc, and in my > limited knowledge of botany, have not noticed more than one type > of cottonwood. In fact there are very few trees even left!! I > have wondered where that trapping party found enough trees to > build what buildings they had. There is know remaining evidence > of their camp, so the mystery remains! > Steve Banks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wynn Ormond > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:26 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse > > Mr Banks > > It has been a while since I read Zenas but I believe all the > animals died the mules were just slower about it. The > men carried everything out on their own backs. Secondly, > there is nothing mysterious like chemicals in the trees. > There are different types of cottonwoods and the broad leaf > has a sweet inner bark the narrow doesn't. > > However dispite Zenas's experience and as I posted before > there is plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering > horses worked most of the time. > Wynn Ormond > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Banks > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:58 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse > > Dorothy, > Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain > Man:" gives an answer to your question. They had to stay > a winter on the upper Laramie River and this was their > experience. You can read about it starting on page 19 - > 21. The cottonwood bark here had a different > characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower > downstream on the Laramie River. Unfortunatly the horses > starved because they refused to eat the bark in this > winter camp. Only the mules survived. I've investigated > this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the > bitterness was caused by some mineral that was absorbed in > the tree. There is a lot of a low grade aluminum mineral > around the Laramie area and this might be a possibility. > For your interest, I have retraced Leonard's route from > the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at Chambers > Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado. Hope this > helps some. > Steve Banks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DOROTHY MORRIS > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse > > Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his > horse while up at a trapping camp during a Rocky > Mountain Winter? I hear the horses ate the inner bark > of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and by > whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk > being food for wolves? Were there enough cottonwood > trees? What else did they eat? What were the > logistics of this situation? Anyone know? Love to > hear from you. > > DKM > --------------070605010107010601000401 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree w/ Beaverboy on them staying in beaver country, and that many came from the larger river valley bottoms.  They did trap headwaters, as lots of places the valleys get very broad and somewhat flatbottomed so water can slow and beaver dam the areas.  You need to look at weather in the west.  Winters are right harsh, especially in those nice river 'holes' like Jackson Hole, and in Idaho's Stanley Basin (like 45 to 60 below zero).  I would guess that most would be down in the lower river valleys that time of year where the water was still moving (although I have seen water running in the Salmon River when it was 30 below...lots of slush ice with it).  Jim Bridger used to talk about the three seasons in the Rocky Mountains.  Those being July, August and winter.  As it is now, lots of places in the high country we don't get wildflowers until June and even sometimes July because they don't like to come up through several feet of melting snow.  One ski area near here (n. utah) was bragging last winter about receiving "100-inches in 100 hours" that being snow.  Not bad for being in the fifth year of drought.

Sparks

DOROTHY MORRIS wrote:
Dear Mr. Ormand and Mr. Banks,
 
Thank you both for your information on the Mountain Men's horses that I originally requested.  I have learned a great deal. 
 
Now another question and this regards the actual months that a Mountain Man spent working his trapping area. Did he go up into the mountains in Autumn and remain until Spring or did he only go toward the springtime? 
 
Dorothy
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse

Mr. Ormond,
I had to check my source again and I would refer you to the following:
page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, paraphrasing,  "the horses were dead and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize on the two mules and themselves"
page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the two mules are alive but weak and the party stops because they've found sweet cottonwood and are allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering".  I believe the mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River in June.
The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood trees was that of a botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of Wyoming.  In the area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone can tell, there is only one species of cottonwood.  And that provides the mystery of why at the downstream area of the river the tree bark was edible.  I don't know if in the winter of 1831 that there were two species of cottonwood growing in that area.  I have been in that area a number of times, hunting, fishing etc, and in my limited knowledge of botany, have not noticed more than one type of cottonwood.  In fact there are very few trees even left!!  I have wondered where that trapping party found enough trees to build what buildings they had.  There is know remaining evidence of their camp, so the mystery remains!
Steve Banks 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse

Mr Banks
 
It has been a while since I read Zenas but I believe all the animals died the mules were just slower about it.  The men carried everything out on their own backs.  Secondly, there is nothing mysterious like chemicals in the trees.  There are different types of cottonwoods and the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark the narrow doesn't. 
 
However dispite Zenas's experience and as I posted before there is plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering horses worked most of the time.
Wynn Ormond
  
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse

Dorothy,
Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain Man:" gives an answer to your question.  They had to stay a winter on the upper Laramie River and this was their experience.  You can read about it starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood bark here had a different characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream on the Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses starved because they refused to eat the bark in this winter camp.  Only the mules survived.  I've investigated this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the bitterness was caused by some mineral that was absorbed in the tree.  There is a lot of a low grade aluminum mineral around the Laramie area and this might be a possibility.  For your interest, I have retraced Leonard's route from the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at Chambers Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado.  Hope this helps some.
Steve Banks
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse

Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while up at a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear the horses ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and by whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees?  What else did they eat?  What were the logistics of this situation?  Anyone know?  Love to hear from you.
 
DKM

--------------070605010107010601000401-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 15 Jun 2003 11:27:52 EDT --part1_74.2f3ffaa3.2c1dea78_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You will find numerous mention of feeding cottonwood bark to horses. Besides Leonard, Osbourne Russell also comes to mind. Another good reference is William Ashley. In his lengthy letter to General Henry Atkinson (often referred to as Ashley's narrative) you will find several passages that mention feeding sweet cottonwood bark to horses. Ashley also differentiates between the sweet and bitter variety of cottonwood. He describes the bitter bark as the round-leafed tree and the sweet bark as the narrow leafed tree. This is a contrast between the populus angustifolia (bitter) and the populus angulata (sweet) cottonwoods. Ashley claims that the sweet cottonwood is no where to be found in the mountains and most of his references occur while on the prairie. Harrison Dale's book, "The Ashley/Smith Explorations and the Discovery of a Central Route to the Pacific, 1822-1829" (published by Arthur Clark Company, Glendale, CA 1941) has recently been reprinted by either Oklahoma or Nebraska press. But you can also go on-line to http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/mmarch.html. At this site you will find Russel, the Ashley narrative and many other reference sources. You can download them and do a search for "cottonwood" which will bring you to these citations. Let me know if I can help in any other way. Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 --part1_74.2f3ffaa3.2c1dea78_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You will find numerous mention of feeding cottonwood b= ark to horses. Besides Leonard, Osbourne Russell also comes to mind. Another= good reference is William Ashley. In his lengthy letter to General Henry At= kinson (often referred to as Ashley's narrative) you will find several passa= ges that mention feeding sweet cottonwood bark to horses. Ashley also differ= entiates between the sweet and bitter variety of cottonwood. He describes th= e bitter bark as the round-leafed tree and the sweet bark as the narrow leaf= ed tree.  This is a contrast between the populus angustifolia (bitter)=20= and the populus angulata (sweet) cottonwoods. Ashley claims that the sweet c= ottonwood is no where to be found in the mountains and most of his reference= s occur while on the prairie.

Harrison Dale's book, "The Ashley/Smith Explorations and the Discovery of a=20= Central Route to the Pacific, 1822-1829" (published by Arthur Clark Company,= Glendale, CA 1941) has recently been reprinted by either Oklahoma or Nebras= ka press. But you can also go on-line to http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/mmarch.html. At this site you will find Russel, the Ashley narrative and many other r= eference sources. You can download them and do a search for "cottonwood" whi= ch will bring you to these citations.

Let me know if I can help in any other way.

Jim Hardee, AMM #1676
 --part1_74.2f3ffaa3.2c1dea78_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DOROTHY MORRIS" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 15 Jun 2003 10:36:35 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C33329.FEAF6890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you so much, Jim Hardee, I am a novelist, beginning research on that time and place. My book is = not about the mountain men in general, but about something specific that = happens to one of them. However, I like to be as authentic as possible = and to take no more poetic license than I have to. I will definitely go = to the site you recommend. Much appreciation, Dorothy Morris, Santa Clarita, CA ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Casapy123@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 8:27 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse You will find numerous mention of feeding cottonwood bark to horses. = Besides Leonard, Osbourne Russell also comes to mind. Another good = reference is William Ashley. In his lengthy letter to General Henry = Atkinson (often referred to as Ashley's narrative) you will find several = passages that mention feeding sweet cottonwood bark to horses. Ashley = also differentiates between the sweet and bitter variety of cottonwood. = He describes the bitter bark as the round-leafed tree and the sweet bark = as the narrow leafed tree. This is a contrast between the populus = angustifolia (bitter) and the populus angulata (sweet) cottonwoods. = Ashley claims that the sweet cottonwood is no where to be found in the = mountains and most of his references occur while on the prairie. Harrison Dale's book, "The Ashley/Smith Explorations and the Discovery = of a Central Route to the Pacific, 1822-1829" (published by Arthur Clark = Company, Glendale, CA 1941) has recently been reprinted by either = Oklahoma or Nebraska press. But you can also go on-line to = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/mmarch.html. At this site you will = find Russel, the Ashley narrative and many other reference sources. You = can download them and do a search for "cottonwood" which will bring you = to these citations. Let me know if I can help in any other way. Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C33329.FEAF6890 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you so much, Jim Hardee,
 
I am a novelist, beginning research on that time and place. My book = is not=20 about the mountain men in general, but about something specific that = happens to=20 one of them. However, I like to be as authentic as possible and to take = no more=20 poetic license than I have to.  I will definitely go to the site = you=20 recommend.
 
Much appreciation,
Dorothy Morris, Santa Clarita, CA
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 = 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

You will find numerous mention of feeding = cottonwood bark=20 to horses. Besides Leonard, Osbourne Russell also comes to mind. = Another good=20 reference is William Ashley. In his lengthy letter to General Henry = Atkinson=20 (often referred to as Ashley's narrative) you will find several = passages that=20 mention feeding sweet cottonwood bark to horses. Ashley also = differentiates=20 between the sweet and bitter variety of cottonwood. He describes the = bitter=20 bark as the round-leafed tree and the sweet bark as the narrow leafed=20 tree.  This is a contrast between the populus angustifolia = (bitter) and=20 the populus angulata (sweet) cottonwoods. Ashley claims that the sweet = cottonwood is no where to be found in the mountains and most of his = references=20 occur while on the prairie.

Harrison Dale's book, "The = Ashley/Smith=20 Explorations and the Discovery of a Central Route to the Pacific, = 1822-1829"=20 (published by Arthur Clark Company, Glendale, CA 1941) has recently = been=20 reprinted by either Oklahoma or Nebraska press. But you can also go = on-line to=20 http://www.xmis= sion.com/~drudy/mtman/mmarch.html.=20 At this site you will find Russel, the Ashley narrative and many other = reference sources. You can download them and do a search for = "cottonwood"=20 which will bring you to these citations.

Let me know if I can = help in=20 any other way.

Jim Hardee, AMM=20 #1676
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C33329.FEAF6890-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Bull elk ivory Date: 16 Jun 2003 00:08:41 EDT Hello the Camp I need some pairs of bull elk ivory for Indian articles anyone have any they would part with. Need to be bull not cow and complete with root. Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dennis Knapp Subject: MtMan-List: Canoe trip on the Missouri, August Date: 16 Jun 2003 07:38:52 -0600 In August the boys ( ages 12 & 15) and I are going to canoe Holter Lake on the Missouri from the dam to the Upper Holter Lake boat launch. We will pass through the Gates of the Mountain. We plan on 3 days on the river. It is only 20 plus miles, but we are pilgrams regarding canoes and plan to do lots of stopping and playing and fishing along the way. If anyone is interested in joining us, you are more than welcome to do so. Put in date Friday, 08/22 am., take out Monday, 08/25 pm. Contact me at ... sticher@ktft38.com or 208-543-8859 evenings. Any ideas or suggestions from someone who has made this trip would be appreciated too. Regards, Dennis Knapp aka Sticher Southern Idaho ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Dearing Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canoe trip on the Missouri, August Date: 16 Jun 2003 13:25:51 -0500 >I would suggest that you read a book and view a video or two on canoeing, >before making your trip. I don't know what kinds of water conditions you >will encounter on your trip, but the video, Guide to canoeing from L.L. Bean ; A Friendship II production, is probably the best instructional video on the market. A local library might have it. Also the book, "Path of the paddle" / Bill Mason is probably the best instructional book available, also probably available through a local library. If you are novice canoeist this book and video will give you a place to start learning canoeing skills that will make this, and other canoe trips much more enjoyable, and allot safer. Have fun on your trip. J.D. >but we are pilgrams regarding canoes and plan to do lots of stopping and >playing and fishing along the way. If anyone is interested in joining us, >you are more than welcome to do so. Put in date Friday, 08/22 am., take >out Monday, 08/25 pm. >Contact me at ... sticher@ktft38.com or 208-543-8859 evenings. Any ideas >or suggestions from someone who has made this trip would be appreciated too. >Regards, >Dennis Knapp aka Sticher >Southern Idaho > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Sega Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 16 Jun 2003 15:10:28 -0700 (PDT) --0-1720596594-1055801428=:46217 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just a little Clarification. I was looking at what you wrote and got a little perplexed. Didn't ashley state that the round leaved variety (angulata or deltoides) was sweet and the narrow leaf (angustifolia) was bitter? Casapy123@aol.com wrote: ........ Ashley also differentiates between the sweet and bitter variety of cottonwood. He describes the bitter bark as the round-leafed tree and the sweet bark as the narrow leafed tree. This is a contrast between the populus angustifolia (bitter) and the populus angulata (sweet) cottonwoods. Ashley claims that the sweet cottonwood is no where to be found in the mountains and most of his references occur while on the prairie. Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-1720596594-1055801428=:46217 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Just a little Clarification.  I was looking at what you wrote and got a little perplexed.  Didn't ashley state that the round leaved variety (angulata or deltoides) was sweet and the narrow leaf (angustifolia) was bitter? 
Casapy123@aol.com wrote:
........ Ashley also differentiates between the sweet and bitter variety of cottonwood. He describes the bitter bark as the round-leafed tree and the sweet bark as the narrow leafed tree.  This is a contrast between the populus angustifolia (bitter) and the populus angulata (sweet) cottonwoods. Ashley claims that the sweet cottonwood is no where to be found in the mountains and most of his references occur while on the prairie.

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-1720596594-1055801428=:46217-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 16 Jun 2003 19:11:39 EDT --part1_f5.2e0e5553.2c1fa8ab_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are the pertinent quotes from the Ashley narrative: "We were able to procure but a scanty supply of fuel till we arrived on the 10th march at a small branch of the north fork of the Platte, where we found an abundance of wood. This stream is about one hundred feet wide, meandering northeastwardly through a beautiful and fertile valley, about ten miles in width. Its margin is partially wooded with large cottonwood of the bitter kind. The sweet cottonwood, such as affords food for horses, is nowhere to be found in the mountains;" "When the round leaf or sweet-bark cottonwood can be had abundantly, horses may be wintered with but little inconvenience. They are very fond of this bark, and, judging by the effect produced from feeding it to my horses last winter, I suppose it almost, if not quite, as nutricious as timothy hay." From http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/ashnar.html Jim Hardee, Amm #1676 --part1_f5.2e0e5553.2c1fa8ab_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the pertinent quotes from the Ashley narrat= ive:

"We were able to procure but a scanty supply of fuel till we arrived on the=20= 10th march at a small branch of the north fork of the Platte, where we found= an abundance of wood. This stream is about one hundred feet wide, meanderin= g northeastwardly through a beautiful and fertile valley, about ten miles in= width. Its margin is partially wooded with large cottonwood of the bitter k= ind. The sweet cottonwood, such as affords food for horses, is nowhere to be= found in the mountains;"


"When the round leaf or= sweet-bark cottonwood can be had abundantly, horses may be wintered with bu= t little inconvenience. They are very fond of this bark, and, judging by the= effect produced from feeding it to my horses last winter, I suppose it almo= st, if not quite, as nutricious as timothy hay."


From http:= //www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/ashnar.html


Jim Hardee, Amm #1676 --part1_f5.2e0e5553.2c1fa8ab_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canoe trip on the Missouri, August Date: 17 Jun 2003 17:24:49 -0600 (MDT) Dennis, My wife has done that section before. I have only been up the Gates of the Mountain in a large touring boat and I can tell you that speed boats fly up that canyon like maniacs and throw out big wakes. I'd stick to the shore lines just in case. The shore in many spots is shear cliff walls too. You may consider lashing two canoes together for safety sake. And of course always wear your PFD. Two young men drowned on Holter last spring during a highwind. You may want to stop and check out Mann Gulch too, where all the firefighters died. But please beware of the big water and idiot boat captains. Good luck and have fun, bb > In August the boys ( ages 12 & 15) and I are going to canoe Holter Lake on > the Missouri from the dam to the Upper Holter Lake boat launch. We will > pass through the Gates of the Mountain. We plan on 3 days on the river. It > is only 20 plus miles, > but we are pilgrams regarding canoes and plan to do lots of stopping and > playing and fishing along the way. If anyone is interested in joining us, > you are more than welcome to do so. Put in date Friday, 08/22 am., take > out Monday, 08/25 pm. > Contact me at ... sticher@ktft38.com or 208-543-8859 evenings. Any ideas > or suggestions from someone who has made this trip would be appreciated > too. > Regards, > Dennis Knapp aka Sticher > Southern Idaho > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Powell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bull elk ivory Date: 18 Jun 2003 06:36:19 +0000

Mark,

There is a buckskinner (not an AMM Bro) by the name of "Bear Piss", I'll have to find his Christain name and address for you, who lives in Big Piney, WY who told me he has a couple of jars of elk teeth that he has collected over the years and he would be willing to part with some.  I'm not sure on price.  Are you interested?  I will get you more info on how to contact him.

Later

Mike Powell

AMM #1769
POISON RIVER PARTY
"Ride, Ride, Ride"
"Aux Aliments du Pays"!
>From: MarkLoader@aol.com
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: MtMan-List: Bull elk ivory
>Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:08:41 EDT
>
>Hello the Camp
>I need some pairs of bull elk ivory for Indian articles anyone have any they
>would part with. Need to be bull not cow and complete with root.
>Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 18 Jun 2003 19:00:02 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01C335CB.D291A760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mr Banks I apologize for making you have to look the mule stuff up but I asure = you that they died when I read it. Or at least in my befumbabled memory = anyway. The outfit that Zenas was hooked up with seemed inexperienced = and and poorly led so I assumed they had the wrong type tree. It may = have been some other problem but even if there arn't any around there = now I would still wonder if time has changed the vegitation. There are = many examples where that is the case and I have heard many who believe = that the fauna looked very different back then. =20 Wynn Ormond ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Banks=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 10:37 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Mr. Ormond, I had to check my source again and I would refer you to the following: page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, paraphrasing, "the horses were = dead and the men were figuring to pack their mechandize on the two mules = and themselves" page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the two mules are alive but = weak and the party stops because they've found sweet cottonwood and are = allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering". I believe the = mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River in = June. The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood trees was that of a = botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of Wyoming. In the = area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as anyone can tell, there is = only one species of cottonwood. And that provides the mystery of why at = the downstream area of the river the tree bark was edible. I don't know = if in the winter of 1831 that there were two species of cottonwood = growing in that area. I have been in that area a number of times, = hunting, fishing etc, and in my limited knowledge of botany, have not = noticed more than one type of cottonwood. In fact there are very few = trees even left!! I have wondered where that trapping party found = enough trees to build what buildings they had. There is know remaining = evidence of their camp, so the mystery remains! Steve Banks=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wynn Ormond=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Mr Banks=20 It has been a while since I read Zenas but I believe all the animals = died the mules were just slower about it. The men carried everything = out on their own backs. Secondly, there is nothing mysterious like = chemicals in the trees. There are different types of cottonwoods and = the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark the narrow doesn't.=20 However dispite Zenas's experience and as I posted before there is = plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering horses worked most of = the time. Wynn Ormond =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Banks=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:58 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Dorothy, Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures of a Mountain Man:" gives = an answer to your question. They had to stay a winter on the upper = Laramie River and this was their experience. You can read about it = starting on page 19 - 21. The cottonwood bark here had a different = characteristic from the bark they had been feeding lower downstream on = the Laramie River. Unfortunatly the horses starved because they refused = to eat the bark in this winter camp. Only the mules survived. I've = investigated this with a friend of mine and his opinion was that the = bitterness was caused by some mineral that was absorbed in the tree. = There is a lot of a low grade aluminum mineral around the Laramie area = and this might be a possibility. For your interest, I have retraced = Leonard's route from the mouth of the Laramie River to its source at = Chambers Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass in Colorado. Hope this helps = some. Steve Banks ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DOROTHY MORRIS=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse while = up at a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter? I hear the horses = ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it gathered and = by whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and risk being food for = wolves? Were there enough cottonwood trees? What else did they eat? = What were the logistics of this situation? Anyone know? Love to hear = from you. DKM ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01C335CB.D291A760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr Banks
I apologize for making you have to look the mule = stuff up=20 but I asure you that they died when I read it.  Or at least in my=20 befumbabled memory anyway.  The outfit that Zenas was hooked up = with seemed=20 inexperienced and and poorly led so I assumed they had the wrong type=20 tree.  It may have been some other problem but even if there = arn't any=20 around there now I would still wonder if time has changed=20 the vegitation.  There are many examples where that is the = case and I=20 have heard many who believe that the fauna looked very different = back=20 then.  
 
Wynn Ormond
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steve = Banks=20
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 = 10:37=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Mr. Ormond,
I had to check my source again and I would = refer you to=20 the following:
page 21 of the journal - Jan. 8th, = paraphrasing, =20 "the horses were dead and the men were figuring to pack their = mechandize on=20 the two mules and themselves"
page 40 of the journal - April 20th, again the = two mules=20 are alive but weak and the party stops because they've found sweet = cottonwood=20 and are allowing the mules to "recruit from their suffering".  I = believe=20 the mules and men did make it back to the mouth of the Laramie River = in=20 June.
The opinion I expressed about the cottonwood = trees was=20 that of a botanist who has spent many years studying the trees of=20 Wyoming.  In the area where Zenas spent the winter, as near as = anyone can=20 tell, there is only one species of cottonwood.  And that provides = the=20 mystery of why at the downstream area of the river the tree bark was=20 edible.  I don't know if in the winter of 1831 that there were = two=20 species of cottonwood growing in that area.  I have been in that = area a=20 number of times, hunting, fishing etc, and in my limited knowledge of = botany,=20 have not noticed more than one type of cottonwood.  In fact there = are=20 very few trees even left!!  I have wondered where that trapping = party=20 found enough trees to build what buildings they had.  There is = know=20 remaining evidence of their camp, so the mystery remains!
Steve Banks 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Wynn = Ormond=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 = 10:26=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Mr Banks
 
It has been a while since I read Zenas but I = believe=20 all the animals died the mules were just slower about it.  The=20 men carried everything out on their own backs.  Secondly, = there is=20 nothing mysterious like chemicals in the trees.  There are = different=20 types of cottonwoods and the broad leaf has a sweet inner bark = the=20 narrow doesn't. 
 
However dispite Zenas's experience and as I = posted=20 before there is plenty of evidnece that this method of wintering = horses=20 worked most of the time.
Wynn Ormond
  
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Steve=20 Banks
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, = 2003 8:58=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain=20 Man's horse

Dorothy,
Zenas Leonard's account from "Adventures = of a=20 Mountain Man:" gives an answer to your question.  They had to = stay a=20 winter on the upper Laramie River and this was their = experience.  You=20 can read about it starting on page 19 - 21.  The cottonwood = bark here=20 had a different characteristic from the bark they had been feeding = lower=20 downstream on the Laramie River.  Unfortunatly the horses = starved=20 because they refused to eat the bark in this winter camp.  = Only the=20 mules survived.  I've investigated this with a friend of mine = and his=20 opinion was that the bitterness was caused by some mineral that = was=20 absorbed in the tree.  There is a lot of a low grade aluminum = mineral=20 around the Laramie area and this might be a possibility.  For = your=20 interest, I have retraced Leonard's route from the mouth of the = Laramie=20 River to its source at Chambers Lake at the foot of Cameron Pass = in=20 Colorado.  Hope this helps some.
Steve Banks
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 DOROTHY=20 MORRIS
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Sunday, June 08, = 2003 12:57=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Can anyone tell me how a Mountain Man took fed his horse = while up=20 at a trapping camp during a Rocky Mountain Winter?  I hear = the=20 horses ate the inner bark of the cottonwood tree, but how was it = gathered and by whom? Did the horses roam at will to eat and = risk being=20 food for wolves? Were there enough cottonwood = trees? =20 What else did they eat?  What were the logistics of this=20 situation?  Anyone know?  Love to hear from you.
 
=
DKM
= ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01C335CB.D291A760-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 18 Jun 2003 19:07:49 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F5_01C335CC.E90AB760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ms Morris You have two options. Spend a ton of time and effort and do it right or = just do what most novelists do and don't bother with the details. Just = tell everyone about all the research don't do it. The kind of research = that will make a difference can be had only by reading for thousands of = hours and then applying what you have learned by putting together an = outift like your charactors would have and then getting on the ground = with it. If they have to live a winter feeding horses with cottonwood = bark guess what you have to do next winter? Wynn Ormond =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DOROTHY MORRIS=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Thank you so much, Jim Hardee, I am a novelist, beginning research on that time and place. My book is = not about the mountain men in general, but about something specific that = happens to one of them. However, I like to be as authentic as possible = and to take no more poetic license than I have to. I will definitely go = to the site you recommend. Much appreciation, Dorothy Morris, Santa Clarita, CA ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Casapy123@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 8:27 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse You will find numerous mention of feeding cottonwood bark to horses. = Besides Leonard, Osbourne Russell also comes to mind. Another good = reference is William Ashley. In his lengthy letter to General Henry = Atkinson (often referred to as Ashley's narrative) you will find several = passages that mention feeding sweet cottonwood bark to horses. Ashley = also differentiates between the sweet and bitter variety of cottonwood. = He describes the bitter bark as the round-leafed tree and the sweet bark = as the narrow leafed tree. This is a contrast between the populus = angustifolia (bitter) and the populus angulata (sweet) cottonwoods. = Ashley claims that the sweet cottonwood is no where to be found in the = mountains and most of his references occur while on the prairie. Harrison Dale's book, "The Ashley/Smith Explorations and the = Discovery of a Central Route to the Pacific, 1822-1829" (published by = Arthur Clark Company, Glendale, CA 1941) has recently been reprinted by = either Oklahoma or Nebraska press. But you can also go on-line to = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/mmarch.html. At this site you will = find Russel, the Ashley narrative and many other reference sources. You = can download them and do a search for "cottonwood" which will bring you = to these citations. Let me know if I can help in any other way. Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 ------=_NextPart_000_00F5_01C335CC.E90AB760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ms Morris
 
You have two options.  Spend a ton of time = and effort=20 and do it right or just do what most novelists do and don't bother with = the=20 details.  Just tell everyone about all the research don't do = it.  The=20 kind of research that will make a difference can be had only by reading = for=20 thousands of hours and then applying what you have learned by = putting=20 together an outift like your charactors would have and then getting on = the=20 ground with it.  If they have to live a winter feeding horses with=20 cottonwood bark guess what you have to do next winter?
 
Wynn Ormond 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DOROTHY = MORRIS=20
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 = 11:36=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Thank you so much, Jim Hardee,
 
I am a novelist, beginning research on that time and place. My = book is=20 not about the mountain men in general, but about something specific = that=20 happens to one of them. However, I like to be as authentic as possible = and to=20 take no more poetic license than I have to.  I will definitely go = to the=20 site you recommend.
 
Much appreciation,
Dorothy Morris, Santa Clarita, CA
----- Original Message -----
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 = 8:27=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

You will find numerous mention of feeding = cottonwood bark=20 to horses. Besides Leonard, Osbourne Russell also comes to mind. = Another=20 good reference is William Ashley. In his lengthy letter to General = Henry=20 Atkinson (often referred to as Ashley's narrative) you will find = several=20 passages that mention feeding sweet cottonwood bark to horses. = Ashley also=20 differentiates between the sweet and bitter variety of cottonwood. = He=20 describes the bitter bark as the round-leafed tree and the sweet = bark as the=20 narrow leafed tree.  This is a contrast between the populus=20 angustifolia (bitter) and the populus angulata (sweet) cottonwoods. = Ashley=20 claims that the sweet cottonwood is no where to be found in the = mountains=20 and most of his references occur while on the = prairie.

Harrison=20 Dale's book, "The Ashley/Smith Explorations and the Discovery of a = Central=20 Route to the Pacific, 1822-1829" (published by Arthur Clark Company, = Glendale, CA 1941) has recently been reprinted by either Oklahoma or = Nebraska press. But you can also go on-line to http://www.xmis= sion.com/~drudy/mtman/mmarch.html.=20 At this site you will find Russel, the Ashley narrative and many = other=20 reference sources. You can download them and do a search for = "cottonwood"=20 which will bring you to these citations.

Let me know if I can = help in=20 any other way.

Jim Hardee, AMM=20 #1676
------=_NextPart_000_00F5_01C335CC.E90AB760-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DOROTHY MORRIS" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Date: 18 Jun 2003 23:28:35 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C335F1.56E84940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mr Ormond, The bits and pieces of information from you generous Mountain Men have = already helped me tremendously. With the pages and pages I have from = other places on the internet, I have enough information to complete my = task. As I said, the book is not about the trapping industry or the = lives of Mountain Men.only one situation; however, I did not want to = write drivel. =20 Thanks to all of you. Dorothy K Morris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wynn Ormond=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:07 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Ms Morris You have two options. Spend a ton of time and effort and do it right = or just do what most novelists do and don't bother with the details. = Just tell everyone about all the research don't do it. The kind of = research that will make a difference can be had only by reading for = thousands of hours and then applying what you have learned by putting = together an outift like your charactors would have and then getting on = the ground with it. If they have to live a winter feeding horses with = cottonwood bark guess what you have to do next winter? Wynn Ormond =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DOROTHY MORRIS=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse Thank you so much, Jim Hardee, I am a novelist, beginning research on that time and place. My book = is not about the mountain men in general, but about something specific = that happens to one of them. However, I like to be as authentic as = possible and to take no more poetic license than I have to. I will = definitely go to the site you recommend. Much appreciation, Dorothy Morris, Santa Clarita, CA ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Casapy123@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 8:27 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Man's horse You will find numerous mention of feeding cottonwood bark to = horses. Besides Leonard, Osbourne Russell also comes to mind. Another = good reference is William Ashley. In his lengthy letter to General Henry = Atkinson (often referred to as Ashley's narrative) you will find several = passages that mention feeding sweet cottonwood bark to horses. Ashley = also differentiates between the sweet and bitter variety of cottonwood. = He describes the bitter bark as the round-leafed tree and the sweet bark = as the narrow leafed tree. This is a contrast between the populus = angustifolia (bitter) and the populus angulata (sweet) cottonwoods. = Ashley claims that the sweet cottonwood is no where to be found in the = mountains and most of his references occur while on the prairie. Harrison Dale's book, "The Ashley/Smith Explorations and the = Discovery of a Central Route to the Pacific, 1822-1829" (published by = Arthur Clark Company, Glendale, CA 1941) has recently been reprinted by = either Oklahoma or Nebraska press. But you can also go on-line to = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/mmarch.html. At this site you will = find Russel, the Ashley narrative and many other reference sources. You = can download them and do a search for "cottonwood" which will bring you = to these citations. Let me know if I can help in any other way. Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C335F1.56E84940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr Ormond,
 
The bits and pieces of information from you generous Mountain Men = have=20 already helped me tremendously.  With the pages and pages I have = from other=20 places on the internet, I have enough information to complete my = task.  As=20 I said, the book is not about the trapping industry or the lives of = Mountain=20 Men=85only one situation; however, I did not want to write drivel.  =
 
Thanks to all of you.
 
Dorothy K Morris
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 = 6:07=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Ms Morris
 
You have two options.  Spend a ton of = time and=20 effort and do it right or just do what most novelists do and don't = bother with=20 the details.  Just tell everyone about all the research don't do=20 it.  The kind of research that will make a difference can be had = only by=20 reading for thousands of hours and then applying what you have = learned by=20 putting together an outift like your charactors would have and then = getting on=20 the ground with it.  If they have to live a winter feeding horses = with=20 cottonwood bark guess what you have to do next winter?
 
Wynn Ormond 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DOROTHY = MORRIS=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 = 11:36=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain Man's=20 horse

Thank you so much, Jim Hardee,
 
I am a novelist, beginning research on that time and place. My = book is=20 not about the mountain men in general, but about something specific = that=20 happens to one of them. However, I like to be as authentic as = possible and=20 to take no more poetic license than I have to.  I will = definitely go to=20 the site you recommend.
 
Much appreciation,
Dorothy Morris, Santa Clarita, CA
----- Original Message ----- =
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 = 8:27=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Mountain=20 Man's horse

You will find numerous mention of feeding = cottonwood=20 bark to horses. Besides Leonard, Osbourne Russell also comes to = mind.=20 Another good reference is William Ashley. In his lengthy letter to = General=20 Henry Atkinson (often referred to as Ashley's narrative) you will = find=20 several passages that mention feeding sweet cottonwood bark to = horses.=20 Ashley also differentiates between the sweet and bitter variety of = cottonwood. He describes the bitter bark as the round-leafed tree = and the=20 sweet bark as the narrow leafed tree.  This is a contrast = between the=20 populus angustifolia (bitter) and the populus angulata (sweet)=20 cottonwoods. Ashley claims that the sweet cottonwood is no where = to be=20 found in the mountains and most of his references occur while on = the=20 prairie.

Harrison Dale's book, "The Ashley/Smith = Explorations and=20 the Discovery of a Central Route to the Pacific, 1822-1829" = (published by=20 Arthur Clark Company, Glendale, CA 1941) has recently been = reprinted by=20 either Oklahoma or Nebraska press. But you can also go on-line to = http://www.xmis= sion.com/~drudy/mtman/mmarch.html.=20 At this site you will find Russel, the Ashley narrative and many = other=20 reference sources. You can download them and do a search for = "cottonwood"=20 which will bring you to these citations.

Let me know if I = can help=20 in any other way.

Jim Hardee, AMM=20 = #1676
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C335F1.56E84940-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: MtMan-List: New items Date: 19 Jun 2003 10:08:56 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C3364A.CB6CF0A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all,=20 I have started 2 new items on my website. =20 Crooked Knives & Snare triggers. =20 http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C3364A.CB6CF0A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey all, =
 I have started 2 new = items on my=20 website. 
 
Crooked Knives & Snare=20 triggers.      
 
  = http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
 
D
 
   "Abair ach beagan = is abair=20 gu math = e"
            = DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
       Knives and = Iron=20 Accouterments
      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
 
   "Knowing how is = just the=20 beginning."
  =20
------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C3364A.CB6CF0A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" Subject: MtMan-List: Bill Ramsel music tapes Date: 21 Jun 2003 09:25:21 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C337D7.09971B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Members of the List, I just learned that Bill Ramsel is once again offering his music tapes = for sale. He also has future plans to do a CD or CDs, but presently = does have a good stock of his three tapes available. As many of your know, the tapes are From Plains and Mountains, West By = Southwest Mountain Man Ballads, and Winter of the Heart. Bill told me that the tapes are $10.00 each, plus an additional shipping = fee of $2.00 for the tapes, whether you order one, two or three. Bill may be contacted at: Bill Ramsel, 5705 Arroyo Seca, Austin, Texas = 78756. Regards, Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C337D7.09971B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Members of the List,
 
I just learned that Bill Ramsel is once = again offering=20 his music tapes for sale.  He also has future plans to do a CD or = CDs, but=20 presently does have a good stock of his three tapes=20 available.
 
As many of your know, the tapes are From = Plains=20 and Mountains, West By Southwest Mountain Man Ballads, and = Winter of the Heart.
 
Bill told me that the tapes are $10.00 = each,=20 plus an additional shipping fee of $2.00 for the tapes, whether you = order=20 one, two or three.
 
Bill may be contacted at:  Bill Ramsel, = 5705=20 Arroyo Seca, Austin, Texas 78756.
 
Regards,
 
Paul
------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C337D7.09971B20-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ChasinOrlando@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: (no subject) Date: 21 Jun 2003 10:41:05 EDT --part1_12f.2cd1543e.2c25c881_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unscribe --part1_12f.2cd1543e.2c25c881_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable unscribe
 --part1_12f.2cd1543e.2c25c881_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: robert p mosedale Subject: MtMan-List: Campbell Date: 21 Jun 2003 21:01:48 -0500 I hope you can help this lost historical soul interact with this web site and= provide information on Colin Campbell of the Missouri River, one of the sons of Archibald known as John Campbell, killed in a duel in1808. John was the first territorial officer and Indian agent in Minnesota area and his children were most important pioneers. I have 20 pages of notes and know less than when I began. rmosedale@juno.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Campbell Date: 22 Jun 2003 19:13:14 EDT --part1_1cd.c5e4ad6.2c27920a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/21/03 7:04:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rmosedale@juno.com writes: > provide information on Colin Campbell of the Missouri River, one of the > sons of Archibald known as John Campbell, killed in a duel in1808. John > was the first territorial officer and Indian agent in Minnesota area and > his children were most important pioneers. I have 20 pages of notes and > know less than when I began I am somewhat confused by your information request. Are you saying Archibald was known as John or that Colin was known as John? The Colin Campbell I am aware of was not killed in 1808. He was Joshua Pilcher's half-blood Sioux interpreter and was with Pilcher at the Arikara battle in 1823 with Leavenworth in command. In the 1830's, this Colin Campbell was a partner with Pierre Papin at Fort Tecumseh. He was in charge at Fort Lookout when Father DeSmet dropped by. He was in the employ of the American Fur Company for quite a long time. If this is the same Colin Campbell, and you want the references for this, and other info, let me know. Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 --part1_1cd.c5e4ad6.2c27920a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 6/21/03 7:04:16 PM Pacific Daylight= Time, rmosedale@juno.com writes:

provide information on Colin Ca= mpbell of the Missouri River, one of the
sons of Archibald known as John Campbell, killed in a duel in1808. John
was the first territorial officer and Indian agent in Minnesota area and
his children were most important pioneers. I have 20 pages of notes and
know less than when I began


I am somewhat confused by your information request. Are you saying Archibald= was known as John or that Colin was known as John?

The Colin Campbell I am aware of was not killed in 1808. He was Joshua Pilch= er's half-blood Sioux interpreter and was with Pilcher at the Arikara battle= in 1823 with Leavenworth in command. In the 1830's, this Colin Campbell was= a partner with Pierre Papin at Fort Tecumseh. He was in charge at Fort Look= out when Father DeSmet dropped by. He was in the employ of the American Fur=20= Company for quite a long time.

If this is the same Colin Campbell, and you want the references for this, an= d other info, let me know.

Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 --part1_1cd.c5e4ad6.2c27920a_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List:Bear attack Date: 23 Jun 2003 12:38:09 EDT to lock or not lock? June 17, 2003 At the Summit Rest area between Laramie and Cheyenne, a camper was leaving the john about 3 a.m. When he encountered a bear coming toward him, he ran for safety of his truck. He receive some scratches on his back an a torn shirt and a paw print on his truck. He was glad he had not locked his truck. See you Down the Trail Mark "Roadkill" Loader AMM #1849 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Date: 23 Jun 2003 22:17:34 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C339D5.3F002FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Last week my sons I went camping. The seven year old had helped with = the fire starting demos with Allen Hall at a student demo this spring. = He lite his first flint and steel campfire on our camp. He then fought = with his twin brothers for the privilage of cooking a meal of hotdogs = with marshmellows for dessert. My question is would that count for fulfilling two requirements toward = AMM membership? ;-) Wynn Ormond =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C339D5.3F002FE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Last week my sons I went camping.  = The seven=20 year old had helped with the fire starting demos with Allen Hall at = a=20 student demo this spring.  He lite his first flint and steel = campfire on=20 our camp.  He then fought with his twin brothers for the privilage = of=20 cooking a meal of hotdogs with marshmellows for dessert.
 
My question is would that count = for fulfilling=20 two requirements toward AMM membership?  ;-)
 
Wynn Ormond
 
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C339D5.3F002FE0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Date: 23 Jun 2003 22:36:06 -0600 At 10:17 PM 6/23/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Last week my sons I went camping. The seven year old had helped with the fire starting demos with Allen Hall at a student demo this spring. He lite his first flint and steel campfire on our camp. He then fought with his twin brothers for the privilage of cooking a meal of hotdogs with marshmellows for dessert. > >My question is would that count for fulfilling two requirements toward AMM membership? ;-) > >Wynn Ormond Wynn, Liam is a fine prospective mountain man. I guess the big question on the requirements is, were the marshmellos brought into camp in period containers......... You should be proud of those boys! Allen ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Date: 24 Jun 2003 15:10:38 EDT --part1_f5.2e5eabbb.2c29fc2e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello the Camp I read in almost all the journals of the Mountaineers eating dogs. The L&C men preferred dog over salmon. In Noah Webster 1828 Dictionary: Marshmallow; n. A plant of the genus Althea The following answer to the question "Where did marshmallows come from?" is FAQ number nine on the [alt.food.peeps] Peeps FAQ maintained by Annie. http://faqs.org/faqs/food/candy/peeps/preamble.html > "Marshmallow candy dates back to ancient Egypt where it was a honey-based > candy flavored and thickened with the sap of the root of the Marsh-Mallow > plant (althea officinalis). Marsh-Mallow grows in salt marshes and on banks near > large bodies of water. It is common in the eastern United States. Until the > mid 1800's, marshmallow candy was made using the sap of the Marsh-Mallow > plant. Gelatin replaces the sap in the modern recipes." Today's marshmallows are a mixture of corn syrup or sugar, gelatin, gum arabic and flavoring. Extract from: Viable Herbal Solutions > On May 14, 1920, a small article appeared in the Lynn, Massachusetts, Daily > Evening Item announcing that two young men, H. Allen Durkee and Fred L. > Mower, both graduates of Swampscott High and veterans of the United States > Infantry in World War I, had formed a partnership in the manufacture of Marshmallow > Fluff. The actual date that they started working together is hard to pin > down, because they had been making candies together before they started making > Fluff. The company numbered two men in those days, and they started out > cooking their confections in the kitchen at night and selling them door to door in > the daytime. > > One thing good about Marshmallows you could pack them and they would not break Mark "Roadkill" Loader AMM# 1849 --part1_f5.2e5eabbb.2c29fc2e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello the Camp
I read in almost all the journals of the Mountaineers eating dogs. The L&= ;C men preferred dog over salmon.

In Noah Webster 1828 Dictionary: Marshmallow; n. A plant of the genus= Althea

The following answer to th= e question "Where did marshmallows come from?" is FAQ number nine on the [al= t.food.peeps] Peeps FAQ maintained by Annie.

= http://faqs.org/faqs/food/candy/p= eeps/preamble.html


"Marshmallow candy dates back to ancient Egypt where it w= as a honey-based candy flavored and thickened with the sap of the root of th= e Marsh-Mallow plant (althea officinalis). Marsh-Mallow grows in salt marshe= s and on banks near large bodies of water. It is common in the eastern Unite= d States. Until the mid 1800's, marshmallow candy was made using the sap of=20= the Marsh-Mallow plant. Gelatin replaces the sap in the modern recipes."

Today's marshmallows are a= mixture of corn syrup or sugar, gelatin, gum arabic and flavoring.
Extract from:
Viable Herbal Solutions

=

On May 14, 1920, a small article appeared in the Lynn, Ma= ssachusetts, Daily Evening Item announcing that two young men, H. Allen Durk= ee and Fred L. Mower, both graduates of Swampscott High and veterans of the=20= United States Infantry in World War I, had formed a partnership in the manuf= acture of Marshmallow Fluff. The actual date that they started working toget= her is hard to pin down, because they had been making candies together befor= e they started making Fluff. The company numbered two men in those days, and= they started out cooking their confections in the kitchen at night and sell= ing them door to door in the daytime.



One thing good about Marshmallows you could pack them and th= ey would not break
Mark "Roadkill" Loader
AMM# 1849



 --part1_f5.2e5eabbb.2c29fc2e_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Date: 24 Jun 2003 21:19:27 -0600 Allen wrote: > I guess the big question on the > requirements is, were the marshmellos brought into camp in period > containers......... AAAAAAAAAaa well aaaaaaaaaaaa maybe well I kinda cheated a little on that one.. . . . . > > You should be proud of those boys! I am and since you meantion them I have another story. At the student demo I pulled in after dark and unloaded the sleeping boys into Crazy and Jills tipi. Quinn (3) woke up after the fire had died down. He was laying directly on a buffalo robe and asked what it was. I told him "A buffalo". Well I had a heck of a time getting him to settle down and go back to sleep. Right after first light he was the first one awake. He rolled into the sitting position looked around the tipi and asked, "Where's that buffalo?" I reckon I had that kid scared to death of getting steped on in his sleep. Now ifn noboby else starts written stuff yall goin to get tired of the stories about my kids! Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Date: 24 Jun 2003 21:19:34 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C33A96.4F4170A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MarkLoader@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:10 PM Subject: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Hello the Camp I read in almost all the journals of the Mountaineers eating dogs. The = L&C men preferred dog over salmon. In Noah Webster 1828 Dictionary: Marshmallow; n. A plant of the genus = Althea The following answer to the question "Where did marshmallows come = from?" is FAQ number nine on the [alt.food.peeps] Peeps FAQ maintained = by Annie. http://faqs.org/faqs/food/candy/peeps/preamble.html =20 "Marshmallow candy dates back to ancient Egypt where it was a = honey-based candy flavored and thickened with the sap of the root of the = Marsh-Mallow plant (althea officinalis). Marsh-Mallow grows in salt = marshes and on banks near large bodies of water. It is common in the = eastern United States. Until the mid 1800's, marshmallow candy was made = using the sap of the Marsh-Mallow plant. Gelatin replaces the sap in the = modern recipes." Today's marshmallows are a mixture of corn syrup or sugar, gelatin, = gum arabic and flavoring.=20 Extract from:=20 Viable Herbal Solutions=20 On May 14, 1920, a small article appeared in the Lynn, = Massachusetts, Daily Evening Item announcing that two young men, H. = Allen Durkee and Fred L. Mower, both graduates of Swampscott High and = veterans of the United States Infantry in World War I, had formed a = partnership in the manufacture of Marshmallow Fluff. The actual date = that they started working together is hard to pin down, because they had = been making candies together before they started making Fluff. The = company numbered two men in those days, and they started out cooking = their confections in the kitchen at night and selling them door to door = in the daytime.=20 One thing good about Marshmallows you could pack them and they would = not break Mark "Roadkill" Loader AMM# 1849 ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C33A96.4F4170A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 MarkLoader@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 = 1:10=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: 2 = Requirements=20 Marshmallow a real thing

Hello the Camp
I read in almost all the = journals of the=20 Mountaineers eating dogs. The L&C men preferred dog over = salmon.

In=20 Noah Webster 1828 Dictionary: Marshmallow; n. A plant of the = genus=20 Althea

The = following answer to=20 the question "Where did marshmallows come from?" is FAQ number nine on = the=20 [alt.food.peeps] Peeps FAQ maintained by Annie.

http://faqs.org/faqs/food/candy/peeps/preamble.html<= BR>


"Marshmallow candy dates back to ancient Egypt where it = was a=20 honey-based candy flavored and thickened with the sap of the root of = the=20 Marsh-Mallow plant (althea officinalis). Marsh-Mallow grows in salt = marshes=20 and on banks near large bodies of water. It is common in the eastern = United=20 States. Until the mid 1800's, marshmallow candy was made using the = sap of=20 the Marsh-Mallow plant. Gelatin replaces the sap in the modern=20 recipes."


Today's marshmallows are a mixture of corn syrup = or sugar,=20 gelatin, gum arabic and flavoring.
Extract = from:
Viable = Herbal=20 Solutions


On May 14, 1920, a small article appeared in the Lynn,=20 Massachusetts, Daily Evening Item announcing that two young men, H. = Allen=20 Durkee and Fred L. Mower, both graduates of Swampscott High and = veterans of=20 the United States Infantry in World War I, had formed a partnership = in the=20 manufacture of Marshmallow Fluff. The actual date that they started = working=20 together is hard to pin down, because they had been making candies = together=20 before they started making Fluff. The company numbered two men in = those=20 days, and they started out cooking their confections in the kitchen = at night=20 and selling them door to door in the daytime. =



One thing good about Marshmallows you could pack them = and they=20 would not break
Mark "Roadkill" Loader
AMM# = 1849



 ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C33A96.4F4170A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Date: 24 Jun 2003 21:19:43 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C33A96.54557D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MarkLoader@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:10 PM Subject: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Hello the Camp I read in almost all the journals of the Mountaineers eating dogs. The = L&C men preferred dog over salmon. In Noah Webster 1828 Dictionary: Marshmallow; n. A plant of the genus = Althea The following answer to the question "Where did marshmallows come = from?" is FAQ number nine on the [alt.food.peeps] Peeps FAQ maintained = by Annie. http://faqs.org/faqs/food/candy/peeps/preamble.html =20 "Marshmallow candy dates back to ancient Egypt where it was a = honey-based candy flavored and thickened with the sap of the root of the = Marsh-Mallow plant (althea officinalis). Marsh-Mallow grows in salt = marshes and on banks near large bodies of water. It is common in the = eastern United States. Until the mid 1800's, marshmallow candy was made = using the sap of the Marsh-Mallow plant. Gelatin replaces the sap in the = modern recipes." Today's marshmallows are a mixture of corn syrup or sugar, gelatin, = gum arabic and flavoring.=20 Extract from:=20 Viable Herbal Solutions=20 On May 14, 1920, a small article appeared in the Lynn, = Massachusetts, Daily Evening Item announcing that two young men, H. = Allen Durkee and Fred L. Mower, both graduates of Swampscott High and = veterans of the United States Infantry in World War I, had formed a = partnership in the manufacture of Marshmallow Fluff. The actual date = that they started working together is hard to pin down, because they had = been making candies together before they started making Fluff. The = company numbered two men in those days, and they started out cooking = their confections in the kitchen at night and selling them door to door = in the daytime.=20 One thing good about Marshmallows you could pack them and they would = not break Mark "Roadkill" Loader AMM# 1849 ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C33A96.54557D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 MarkLoader@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 = 1:10=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: 2 = Requirements=20 Marshmallow a real thing

Hello the Camp
I read in almost all the = journals of the=20 Mountaineers eating dogs. The L&C men preferred dog over = salmon.

In=20 Noah Webster 1828 Dictionary: Marshmallow; n. A plant of the = genus=20 Althea

The = following answer to=20 the question "Where did marshmallows come from?" is FAQ number nine on = the=20 [alt.food.peeps] Peeps FAQ maintained by Annie.

http://faqs.org/faqs/food/candy/peeps/preamble.html<= BR>


"Marshmallow candy dates back to ancient Egypt where it = was a=20 honey-based candy flavored and thickened with the sap of the root of = the=20 Marsh-Mallow plant (althea officinalis). Marsh-Mallow grows in salt = marshes=20 and on banks near large bodies of water. It is common in the eastern = United=20 States. Until the mid 1800's, marshmallow candy was made using the = sap of=20 the Marsh-Mallow plant. Gelatin replaces the sap in the modern=20 recipes."


Today's marshmallows are a mixture of corn syrup = or sugar,=20 gelatin, gum arabic and flavoring.
Extract = from:
Viable = Herbal=20 Solutions


On May 14, 1920, a small article appeared in the Lynn,=20 Massachusetts, Daily Evening Item announcing that two young men, H. = Allen=20 Durkee and Fred L. Mower, both graduates of Swampscott High and = veterans of=20 the United States Infantry in World War I, had formed a partnership = in the=20 manufacture of Marshmallow Fluff. The actual date that they started = working=20 together is hard to pin down, because they had been making candies = together=20 before they started making Fluff. The company numbered two men in = those=20 days, and they started out cooking their confections in the kitchen = at night=20 and selling them door to door in the daytime. =



One thing good about Marshmallows you could pack them = and they=20 would not break
Mark "Roadkill" Loader
AMM# = 1849



 ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C33A96.54557D20-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Date: 24 Jun 2003 21:23:34 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C33A96.DE06D140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At work today I was thinking "There is probably going to be somebody who = knows the history of marshmellow and then we are going to have an = argument about whether they are historically accurate." Roadkill thank = you for not letting me down! ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MarkLoader@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:10 PM Subject: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Hello the Camp I read in almost all the journals of the Mountaineers eating dogs. The = L&C men preferred dog over salmon. In Noah Webster 1828 Dictionary: Marshmallow; n. A plant of the genus = Althea The following answer to the question "Where did marshmallows come = from?" is FAQ number nine on the [alt.food.peeps] Peeps FAQ maintained = by Annie. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C33A96.DE06D140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At work today I was thinking "There is = probably=20 going to be somebody who knows the history of marshmellow and then we = are going=20 to have an argument about whether they are historically accurate."  = Roadkill thank you for not letting me down!
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 MarkLoader@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 = 1:10=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: 2 = Requirements=20 Marshmallow a real thing

Hello the Camp
I read in almost all the = journals of the=20 Mountaineers eating dogs. The L&C men preferred dog over = salmon.

In=20 Noah Webster 1828 Dictionary: Marshmallow; n. A plant of the = genus=20 Althea

The = following answer to=20 the question "Where did marshmallows come from?" is FAQ number nine on = the=20 [alt.food.peeps] Peeps FAQ maintained by=20 Annie.
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C33A96.DE06D140-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Sorry Date: 24 Jun 2003 21:27:33 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C33A97.6CD559A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry about the blank reposts of Roadkills stuff. This puter is getting = old and tired, kind sea nile. Wynn Ormond =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C33A97.6CD559A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry about the blank reposts of = Roadkills=20 stuff.  This puter is getting old and tired, kind sea = nile.
 
Wynn Ormond
  
------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C33A97.6CD559A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Htorr@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Date: 25 Jun 2003 10:09:35 EDT --part1_1c1.ba30543.2c2b071f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/25/2003 12:47:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cheyenne@pcu.net writes: > Hello the Camp > I read in almost all the journals of the Mountaineers eating dogs. The L&C > men preferred dog over salmon Is that "preferred dog to salmon" or "dog over salmon?" That can be interpreted two ways. Tom Orr --part1_1c1.ba30543.2c2b071f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 6/25/2003 12:47:20 AM Pacific Dayli= ght Time, cheyenne@pcu.net writes:

Hello the Camp
I read in almost all the journals of the Mountaineers eating dogs. The L&= ;C men preferred dog over salmon


   Is that "preferred dog to salmon"  or "dog over salmon?"&n= bsp; That can be interpreted two ways.

    Tom Orr
 --part1_1c1.ba30543.2c2b071f_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Date: 25 Jun 2003 11:01:54 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C33B09.30084A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tom, Didn't you know....putting dog over salmon is like putting icing on a = cake Ben, with tongue firmly in cheek ;) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Htorr@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:09 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing In a message dated 6/25/2003 12:47:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, = cheyenne@pcu.net writes: Hello the Camp I read in almost all the journals of the Mountaineers eating dogs. = The L&C men preferred dog over salmon Is that "preferred dog to salmon" or "dog over salmon?" That can = be interpreted two ways. Tom Orr ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C33B09.30084A60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tom,
Didn't you know....putting dog over = salmon is like=20 putting icing on a cake
Ben,  with tongue firmly in cheek=20 ;)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Htorr@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 = 7:09=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 = Requirements=20 Marshmallow a real thing

In a message dated 6/25/2003 12:47:20 AM Pacific = Daylight=20 Time, cheyenne@pcu.net = writes:

Hello the Camp
I read in almost all the journals of = the=20 Mountaineers eating dogs. The L&C men preferred dog over=20 salmon

   Is that "preferred dog to=20 salmon"  or "dog over salmon?"  That can be interpreted two=20 ways.

    Tom=20 Orr
 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C33B09.30084A60-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Htorr@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Date: 25 Jun 2003 13:13:28 EDT --part1_51.313f5f47.2c2b3238_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben, I knew there must be a logical explanation. I've never tried dog over salmon. Tom > > Hi Tom, > Didn't you know....putting dog over salmon is like putting icing on a cake > Ben, with tongue firmly in cheek ;) > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Htorr@aol.com >> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:09 AM >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing >> >> >> In a message dated 6/25/2003 12:47:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >> cheyenne@pcu.net writes: >> >> >>> Hello the Camp >>> I read in almost all the journals of the Mountaineers eating dogs. The L&C >>> men preferred dog over salmon >> >> Is that "preferred dog to salmon" or "dog over salmon?" That can be >> interpreted two ways. >> >> Tom Orr >> > --part1_51.313f5f47.2c2b3238_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ben,

     I k= new there must be a logical explanation.  I've never tried dog over sal= mon.

     Tom



Hi Tom,
Didn't you know....putti= ng dog over salmon is like putting icing on a cake
Ben,  with tongue f= irmly in cheek ;)

----- Original Message ----- From: Htorr@aol.com
To: hist_text@lists.x= mission.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing


In a message dated 6/25/2003 12:47:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cheyenne@pcu.net writes:

Hello the Camp
I read in almost all the journals of the Mountaineers eating dogs. The L&= ;C men preferred dog over salmon


  Is that "preferred dog to salmon"  or "dog over salmon?"  T= hat can be interpreted two ways.

   Tom Orr



 --part1_51.313f5f47.2c2b3238_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Date: 25 Jun 2003 13:22:40 EDT --part1_1c1.ba57d10.2c2b3460_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is that "preferred dog to salmon" or "dog over salmon?" That can be interpreted two ways. Tom Orr Not sure but they cooked em so dat wood have made em hot dogs See ya at National RoadKill --part1_1c1.ba57d10.2c2b3460_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is that "preferred dog to salmon"  or "dog over=20= salmon?"  That can be interpreted two ways.

    Tom Orr Not sure
but they cooked em so dat wood have made em hot dogs
See ya at National
RoadKill --part1_1c1.ba57d10.2c2b3460_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dennis Knapp Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Marshmallows, kids Date: 25 Jun 2003 13:26:53 -0600 When the boys and I go on outings, treks, rendezvous, etc. I make sure that there is something in the modern snack catigory that is picked by the boys for the boys. My thoughts on this is that if they are pushed too hard (PC) too young they will not be interested in later years because kids taste buds don't alway agree with adults. Better to keep their interest peaked than to make them eat ONLY period correct foods for a period of time. It certainly is a balancing act, but worth it in the long run if they continue to enjoy this hobby. The trip on the Missouri River will be one of those times where a modern snack will be important to them over the coarse of 4 days. Regards, Dennis Knapp Southern Idaho ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Marshmallows, kids Date: 25 Jun 2003 22:16:36 -0600 > When the boys and I go on outings, treks, rendezvous, etc. I make sure that there is > something in the modern snack catigory that is picked by the boys for the boys. My > thoughts on this is that if they are pushed too hard (PC) too young they will not be > interested in later years because kids taste buds don't alway agree with adults. Dennis; If it helps keep them, go for it. But I will say that for the most part my son eats the same things I do on primitive camps. You remember the buffalo osters at the Fort Hall planning camp? He considers it bragging rights to eat tongue and wild onions and drink camp coffee and such. I admit I do tend to be a bit more creative when he is with me. I dunno how he would take a straight meat meal. Maybe I ought to find out. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Date: 25 Jun 2003 23:02:02 -0400 dog isn't bad almost as good as house cat but maby a bit more meat if you get a nice young puppy---in VN the cat was specal sometimes called rabit that goes MEAUUUU---now my SF background comes in and love for exotic food---GBG--- "Hawk" ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 2 Requirements Marshmallow a real thing Date: 26 Jun 2003 18:00:28 -0600 I take it that "SF" means San Francisco, and not Science Fiction? There is a story from the CW where three local boys sold meat pies to the soldiers for about two bits apiece. After the pies were all sold and the boys were dividing the profits "equally" the youngest/smallest was heard to say (loudly I might add), "I should get more money cuz it was my puppy!" True story, at lest as recorded in a unit history. Sparks hawknest4@juno.com wrote: >dog isn't bad almost as good as house cat but maby a bit more meat if you >get a nice young puppy---in VN the cat was specal sometimes called rabit >that goes MEAUUUU---now my SF background comes in and love for exotic >food---GBG--- > >"Hawk" > >________________________________________________________________ >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: personal for LP---OFF TOPIC Date: 28 Jun 2003 21:47:35 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C33DBE.E2DADA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Larry I got your posts. My email is off limits to your server again. Drat. Everybody else can go back to their knitting now. Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C33DBE.E2DADA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Larry
I got your = posts.  My email=20 is off limits to your server again.  Drat.
Everybody else can go back = to their=20 knitting now.
 
 
Lanney Ratcliff
lanneyratcliff@charter.net=
______________________________________________________________
Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays
------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C33DBE.E2DADA60-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html