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hist_text-digest       Friday, February 27 1998       Volume 01 : Number 030




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:04:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hats... again.

On 25 Feb 1998, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote:
> I've bought 3 or 4 hats from Clearwater and never had any trouble from
> them.  Can't remember what the complaints were, but they are about the
> only ones I know that make good quality hats for a decent price.  Don
> Keas

Wellll... based on the feedback I got on Clearwater Hats from the folks 
on this list... I went ahead and ordered one from them today.

Their URL is: http://www.clearwaterhats.com/

Nice folks.  Again, thanks for all the info!

Regards

Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder" Webpage
http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:43:27 -0800
From: tigrbo1 <tigrbo1@ibm.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Gun Show

JON P TOWNS wrote:
> 
> On March 7 and 8th King Co fair grounds near Seattle WA a huge gun
> show,  we have people come from as far Montana with their wares.
>  Later Jon T

Greetings all,

Just to second Jon's post,

21 Annual Cascade Mtn. Men
Muzzle Loading Arms & Pioneer Crafts Show
King County Fair Grounds
Enumclaw, Washington
March 7 & 8
9am to 5pm
Admission: $3.00 Under 12 Free
Info: 206-763-1698

Come on down and join the fun.

Best regards,

Terry Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:15:11 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Canvas Canoe

Ron,

No hard feelings. The answer to question #3 as best that I can glean 
from researching is: Most latex paints today are made from an 
artificial or  "reconstructed" latex. There is the old style 
available (100% real latex), but you have to look hard to find it.
As to question #4, I've not run in to anything that could be for 
certain fact. I seem to remember mention of rubberized sheeting used 
by the traders, but couldn't tell you where I read it over the years.
Good luck in your search and if I run into any more facts, I'll 
pass them to you.



Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:18:44 -0600
From: Jim Lindberg <jal@cray.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Soapmaking

I was out surfing and found this soapmaking page, I have no ties.

http://members.aol.com/oelaineo/soapmaking.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:24:20 -0500
From: sean@naplesnet.com (Addison O. Miller)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Living Documentation

My trekking is a bit before the Mountainman era... early part of the 1700s
with Oglethorpes Independent Rangers for GA and SC... but everything we use
we carry on our backs.  GADS!!! I had forgotten how it was to carry a pack
(retired military).  As you said... you find the softest rock available and
curl up.  I use a 10x10 tarp to make a shelter out of just in case it
decides to rain (have you ever been on one where it didn't??)<chuckles>...
Bed roll, cup, bean pot, etc... We don't have the temperatures that David
does in the forzen country, but when it gets into the 40s here in the South,
that be a mite chilly for us.  I take my longhandles (for at night) and 2
blankets then... But it is a lot of fun to step back like that, and rely on
just what you carry. I agree... the Ronnys are alotof fun, but it can't
compare to treking.  We also have 2 long boats, and will take a run down the
various rivers and pull ashore to camp.

Addison Miller

>David wrote:
>
>I'm not really into competition either, but think to add an element of
>realism to the exercise both fatigue and time stress would be realistic
>factors to add to the mix.
>
>For example, this weekend we had our monthly AMM outing for the Northern
>Utah and Southern Idaho area.  Friday night I left the road after dark on a
>moonless night snowshoeing on about 10-12 feet of snow and was the first one
>there.  Needless to say, Friday night's camp was a tad chilly.  Saturday, I
>spent most of the day moving up onto a south facing slope and setting up a
>good shelter and gathering lots of firewood.  Saturday night I had a warm
>comfortable camp.  But which camp was most realistic for a one-night camp?
>The warm camp would have been impossible had it been just one of many nights
>on long trail between friends with a warm lodges and fat pups.
>
>
>Dave,
>
>I couldn't agree more. I've spent many a night where I just rolled 
>up in my blanket on the softest rock I could find. These type camps 
>would have to be closer to the norm than a big cushy one while they 
>were on the move. I love to go to rondys, but to get the real feel of 
>what it was like, give me a scout with all I need on my back or 
>waiting for me to put together out there on the ground.
>
>
>Your most humble servant,
>Scott Allen
>Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
>Fairplay, MD
>http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:28:22 CDT
From: lnbekr@deering.ndak.net
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Finishing wood bowls

This may not be totally period correct, but I used a product called salad bowl finish to seal the inside of a turtle shell that I use for a eating bowl.  I purchased salad bowl finish from a wood working shop.  It had the consistancy of water and my first coating was too thick and accumulated in areas of depression as a gummy gel.  This required sanding the inside of the shell again and the next application was applied very sparingly.  This product is used to finish wooden salad bowls and I'm told is not harmful.

Paulie Patch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:40:38 EST
From: tedhart@juno.com (Ted A Hart)
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Mohawks/Hendrick

Hello everyone,

Finally got around to looking for the Mohawks'  Mohawk Valley address. 
Let them know I gave out their address.  They are trying to keep their
new land and be able to work it and all.  They do fund rasing and such. 
It's perfectly ridiculous that they had to buy it when it was originally
theirs in the first place!

Anyways here goes:

Kanatsiohareke (Ga na jo ha lay gay)  "The Clean Pot"
4934 State Highway 5
Fonda, NY 12068

Telephone 518-673-5092
Fax 518-673-5575

Ted Hart


_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:55:16 -0800
From: Frank Stewart <MedicineBear@Hawken54.sparks.nv.us>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hats... again.

As I read this I had to reply.  As I'm sitting here typing, I'm wearing my
new Bridger Style Clearwater Hat!  Just came today and now I can actually
say first hand...NICE HAT!
The felt is thick, workmanship excellent and it looks VERY authentic.  All
that and the actual price was $65.00 plus $10.00 shipping and handling.  I'm
very happy and highly recommend them!
Lee, you'll not be sorry!

Watch yer backtrail, MB


Lee Newbill wrote:

> Wellll... based on the feedback I got on Clearwater Hats from the folks
> on this list... I went ahead and ordered one from them today.
>
> Their URL is: http://www.clearwaterhats.com/
>
> Nice folks.  Again, thanks for all the info!
>
> Regards
>
> Lee Newbill
> Viola, Idaho
> email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu
> Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder" Webpage
> http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:37:34 -0600
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Canvas Canoe

At 06:15 AM 2/26/98 , Scott Allen wrote:
>
>Most latex paints today are made from an=20
>artificial or  "reconstructed" latex. There is the old style=20
>available (100% real latex), but you have to look hard to find it.
>

Latex Paint is of the 1950's.  I'm not sure what you mean by 100% real
latex paint or old style.  Modern chemical definition calls any synthetic
rubber or plastic particles emulsified in water a "real" latex.  Are you
saying you've seen India Rubber base latex paint?  Even if so it does not
mean the usage pre-dates 1950.

>As to question #4, I've not run in to anything that could be for=20
>certain fact. I seem to remember mention of rubberized sheeting used=20
>by the traders, but couldn't tell you where I read it over the years.
>

India Rubber was used in the period to waterproof cloth and more.  It was
of the first materials called latex.  It is not remotely similar to; Latex
Paint.  Rubberized canvas is something very different than what a latex
paint covered canvas would be. =20

A rubberized canoe would probably be heavier than a painted one, and the
greater flexibility might allow for easier tearing of the fabric, it's
possible the structure could be weakened, sagging could be a problem.

When India rubber was used it was usually mixed with varnish, shellac,
rosin, and other materials to make a particular varnish, waterproofing or
cement; after dissolution.  I have found few early recipes including India
rubber, most I've found come after 1840.  It took a while to figure out how
to fully use it.  It's little used anymore.

The confusion comes from the mis-appropriation of old terminology in
describing very modern materials used to very different purposes.

At least with food we get a little truth in labeling so we end up with a
curiosity called imitation margarine.  Only Madison Avenue could, with a
straight face, declare it better than butter.

Please quote the 1741 recipe and source, and perhaps we can figure out what
it was actually made of.  If it is titled "latex paint" then Oxford and
Random House probably should owe you money for pointing out a 209 year
earlier usage. =20

Even if the 1741 recipe emulsifies India Rubber (caoutchouc) in water and
entitles it latex paint it certainly wasn't a common usage.  Perhaps too
expensive, perhaps the recipe wasn't  very good, perhaps?  This is certain
because the Paint and Coatings Industry figured they invented something new
in the 1950's.  Someone may have done something similar before, but it
wasn't common knowledge.

The reason I have such difficulty thinking that may have happened is that
India Rubber can be dissolved in heated oils, turpentine, bisulphide of
carbon, benzole, naptha, chloroform and like chemicals; this does not
indicate a predisposition to emulsification in water with 18th & 19th
century technology.

The Bookshelf 95 source you referenced only confirms what I have been
saying.  I have seen nothing yet which supports your contentions.

"begin quotes...

from Bookshelf 95 ...

la=B7tex (l=E2=B9t=E8ks=B4) noun

1.	The colorless or milky sap of certain plants, such as the poinsettia or
milkweed, that coagulates on exposure to air.
2.	An emulsion of rubber or plastic globules in water, used in paints,
adhesives, and various synthetic rubber products.
3.	Latex paint.
[Latin, fluid.]
=97 la=B9tex=B4 adjective

- -----------------------

>From Random House Unabridged ...

la=B7tex, n.,=20

1.	a milky liquid in certain plants, as milkweeds, euphorbias, poppies, or
the plants yielding India rubber, that coagulates on exposure to air.
2.	Chem. any emulsion in water of finely divided particles of synthetic
rubber or plastic.
[1655=9665; < NL, special use of L latex water, juice, liquid]

latex paint,=20
paint that has a latex binder and can be removed while it is wet by
applying water. Also called rubber-base paint, water-base paint.
[1950=9655]

end quotes..."

John...

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer
kramer@kramerize.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:26:40 EST
From: Traphand <Traphand@aol.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: keelboat from st.charles mo.

does anyone know anything about the a new keelboat being build in st. charles
after the other one was burnedup in a fire last year. five of us took a ride
up the missouri river last year.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:23:53 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jappaning

John,

Thanks for all the information.  I'm still in the dark about asphaltum.
When I drove to Grand Junction last month, I stopped at a historical marker
between Price and Green River.  To my surprise the marker noted the
importance of asphalt mined in the area.

I don't want to push my luck and expect too much from your information
stores, but is naturally occuring asphalt ore something that Indians,
mountain men, or pioneers made use of without needing fancy refining
facilities?

Dave
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jappaning


>At 06:36 AM 2/24/98 , David Tippets wrote:
>>
>>
>>Thanks for the insight on Jappaning -- how's about some more?
>>
>>A couple of years ago I discovered that the Fort Union Interpretive
>>Association has documented and is now offering for sale a small
>>personal-size cooking pot that is Jappaned tin.  More recently, I 've
>>discovered documentation of Jappaned tin eyeglass cases.
>>
>>The Fort Union reproduction pot was priced at $80.00, last that I checked.
>>
>>According to your understanding of Jappaning:
>>
>> Could anyone today buy the appropriate shellac and paint it on tin to
>>achieve results equal to the Jappaned tin containers?
>
>I do not know of a source of asphaltum varnish.  The last can I saw I
>bought, in SLC from an old paint shop, a very dirty last can on the
>backroom shelf.  About 20 years ago.
>
>I've not tried it but, I suppose you could do a form of japanning with
>shellac heavily pigmented with lamp black.  It would not be as tough a
>finish as the asphaltum, it would be easy to rework and redo.  Might not
>take the metal flexing too well as shellac can be rather brittle, a touch
>of colophony, perhaps a tiny dash of linseed oil, might help keep it from
>flaking from the sides.
>
>If you try it I would suggest first cleaning the metal thoroughly.  When
>dry rub with a fresh cut clove of garlic (to etch the metal and aid
>adhesion, also useful when gluing wood to metal, even with modern glue).
>Dry and then apply the shellac in multiple thin coats.
>
>>
>>Is protecting from rust the mail reason people used to Jappan tin?
>
>That and appearance.
>
>>
>>Is the Jappaned tin food safe if Jappaned on the inside of the container?
>
>
>I've not seen japanning on the inside of food containers, most often tin or
>tinned inside.  Any finish could affect flavor and could react with acid
>&/or alkali foods.  It depends on what a finish is made from whether or not
>it would be food safe.  Most old finishes contained lead.  Shellac is one
>notable exception and is food safe as is lamp black.  Everybody has eaten
>some.
>
>Shellac is made from the exudations of insects on trees in the Orient.  The
>twigs are gathered as "stick" lac and first processed with simple kettles
>and hand stretching by the gatherers at camp fires.  The crudest form
>imported is called "button" lac which must still be filtered through cheese
>cloth before use to remove body hairs and bug parts.  Five or six grades
>are available each step in the processing removing more of the waxes and
>resins to achieve a clearer color finish.  As these things are removed
>beneficial properties for many uses are removed as well.  Orange shellac is
>a good general purpose refinement.
>
>The refining continues until what is called "Super Blonde", "White", or
>"Clear" is produced.  Most of the good stuff is gone by this point and most
>craft uses are with touchup coloration.  The food service industry uses
>most of the clear shellac as "Confectioners Glaze" it's what they spray on
>candy to make it shiny, check your candy wrappers to be sure your getting
>all natural, pure, original -- bug poop.
>
>>
>>Thanks for any additional information you have about Jappaning!
>>
>
>If I find a little extra time maybe I'll hunt up a recipe or two.  Haven't
>had much lately.
>
>John...
>
>Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
>John Kramer
>kramer@kramerize.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:35:41 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:

John,

Holy shit, am I impressed!  You've just raised the standard for living
history information.  Even Angela will have trouble topping this one.

But I'm grateful -- I was afraid that I was going to have to give credit for
my canoe to Benjamin Moore.

Now, how's about those India rubber shoes that HBC sold at Fort Hall?  Can
you stretch your latex insight to describe those India rubber shoes?

Dave
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:


>I am reposting this in plain text as some mail readers can't deal with the
>"styled" text in Eudora 4.0.  I am coming to believe there is a serious
>mail transfer issue between Eudora 4.0 and the mail reader in IE 4.0?.
>Somebody will have to let me know if my messages come through blank, they
>look fine when they bounce back to me.  Then again maybe no one cares.
>
>Modern latex paint is cheap and easy.  It has no period applications or
>similarities.  Efficacy in any application is specious at best.  Latex
>paint contains mercury; an element more dangerous than lead.
>
>The word latex was coined between 1655-65 and referenced any milky plant
>sap which coagulated on exposure to air.  Such as poppy, euphorbia, India
>Rubber, poinsettia, and more.
>
>The term "Latex Paint" was coined in 1950-55.
>
>The current chemical definition of latex is any solution of finely divided
>synthetic rubber or plastic particles emulsified in water.
>
>What was being used in the early 1800's as latex was most commonly India
>Rubber.  I do not know of a source.  Depending on usage it could reference
>some other plants vital bodily fluid.
>
>I can't think of any paint recipes off hand which include any of the
>latexes.  I'll keep an eye out, just in case.  I do remember several for
>"jacking" leather and for various adhesives and waterproofings.
>
>I'd appreciate copies of any old recipes you encounter.  I've only got
>about 30,000 or so and I'm running low.
>
>John...
>
>Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
>john kramer@kramerize.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:46:09 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clothes

Angela,

Nope, it was Thompson alright, somewhere between the Tobacco Plains and
Bonner's Ferry, as I recall.

Close as I can speculate, the floor must have been from Thompson's personal
tent.  Remember that his tent was erected on most occasions by his personal
manservant, while he did his cartographic calculations and mapping.  Also,
remember that his tent was designed to have a fire inside.  A heavy leather
floor with a big circle cut out of the center would have gone a long way to
preventing accidental ignition of grass fires inside the tent from popping
spitting spruce or fir fueld fires.

Dave

P.S.  Still waiting for a reply from Oxford on your XY interpretation of
history.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net>
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
<hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clothes


> "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com> wrote :
>>What!  Never heard of tent floors, and I thought you had Thompson's
journals
>>memorized.
>Nope, sorry to say that I haven't read as much Thompson as I would like.
>
>>Not only did they have a tent floor, the floor was heavy stiff leather --
so
>>stiff they broke their sewing needles on it before they surrendered to
>>punching holes with an awl.  Once they got those pants on, they must of
>>walked like the tin man with diaper rash.  You better go back to your
>>Thompson, you missed one of the good parts
>
>I was puzzled because I've got lots of descriptions of tents which mention
>bough beds, or pine branches or grass strewn throughout, but no floors. Are
>you sure you're not thinking of the following from Peter Fidler's 1791
Journal?
>Dec. 13, 1791 : "I returned & tore my old Cotton trousers all to pieces
that
>I threw them away as past all repair  also my Drawers [long underwear--A.]
>became quite useless thro' Long wear  Wrap a Blanket about me like a womans
>Petticoat to protect me from the cold..."
>Dec. 15, 1791 : "on account of the very wretched condition I am in for want
>of Trousers (having nothing of the Kind) the [Chipewyan] man I am with cut
a
>skin out of the Bottom of his Tent to make a pair of the Trousers & upon
>work at them  Clear & very sharp weather."
>"1791 Dec 16 Friday. Finished making my Leather Trousers which is a very
>great acquisition to me  broke all my needles in making them the leather
>being so stiff 7 hard & went to work in the Indian manner with an awl &
>Sinnews before I completed them having at first only 4 needles." (J. B.
>Tyrrell, _Journals of Hearne & Turnor_, 530-531)
>
>Your humble & obedient servant,
>Angela Gottfred
>agottfre@telusplanet.net
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:24:08 -0700
From: "David Tippets" <wolverine76@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hats... again.

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BD424C.DA709180
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Two years ago, JW Hats in SLC sold me a hat made to the specs you =
describe and only charged me around $100 for it.  I hope that they =
haven't tripled their prices.

I lived under a felt hat for about 15 years and have pretty stong =
opinions about them.  The JW Hat, at the price I paid, was more hat for =
the money than similarly- priced Stetsons or Resistols.  I wouldn't =
hesitate a second to pay $100 for another JW, but I wouldn't pay over =
$300 for one no matter how many XXX's followed the beaver.  There are =
little custom cowboy hat shops springing up all over the place that will =
take a lot more of money than Clearwater or JW Hats. =20

There's a lot to be said in favor of being able to put a hat on your =
head before you pay for it. Don't be too impressed by the custom makers =
who put the little antique metal contraptions on your head to reproduce =
your head exactly on the form they build your hat around.  Lots of hours =
of sweat and rain contribute more to the fit of a hat than those =
contraptions that record the unique shape of all your personal =
knowldegde bumps.

Looks to me like the biggest advantage in buying a Clearwater Bridger =
Hat is that after you pay for it, you'll still have enough money left to =
buy one of those Civil War-era beauties they sell.  With one of those =
over your skins, you're sure to  confound the buckskinners who frequent =
renezvous at the county fairgrounds.  Had I the chance to do it over =
again, I'd buy one of those Clearwater Civil War dandies to get married =
in.  If you have not seen Clearwater's Civil War collection, check out =
their web site.  They are cute enough to make either a carpet bagger, or =
a pimp out of a mountain man.

Resistol is still the king!

Dave

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:41:43 -0600
From: User <Monty@bayou.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Sawing off a CVA barrel

Hello gunmakers everywhere,

  A friend of mine has a CVA Kentucky rifle he built from a kit. The
caliber is .45 and the barrel length is 32". He wants to convert it to
.32 caliber by replacing the barrel. The problem is most barrels are to
long. What is the proper technique---saw off the muzzle end or the
breech end? How much can be safely sawn off before accuracy is
sacrificed?
  Next question. I have a CVA Mountain rifle. It is percussion and I
want to convert to flintlock. Do I simply remove the drum and replace it 
with a touch-hole liner and add a flintlock or is it more complicated
than that?
  Would someone please help us flatlanders with these questions.

Thanks a lot folks,
Monty Bradley

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 02:29:44 -0600
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jappaning

At 12:23 AM 2/26/98 , David Tippets wrote:
>John,
>
>Thanks for all the information.  I'm still in the dark about asphaltum.
>When I drove to Grand Junction last month, I stopped at a historical marker
>between Price and Green River.  To my surprise the marker noted the
>importance of asphalt mined in the area.
>
>I don't want to push my luck and expect too much from your information
>stores, but is naturally occuring asphalt ore something that Indians,
>mountain men, or pioneers made use of without needing fancy refining
>facilities?
>

The short answer is, YEP!  They had some methods of basic refinement.
Asphalt has been used for a long time, just not for driveways back then.
They also used it without the cheap starchy rock filler we usually see.

If you are deadly serious about trying some old ways, first acquire the
necessary materials, I'll find time to dig out the recipes and processes.

While checking out some other things this afternoon I found in MacKenzie
the following:

TO MAKE BLACK JAPAN
Take of boiled oil 1 gallon, umber 8 oz., asphaltum 3 oz., oil of
turpentine as much as will reduce it to the thinness required.

end quote ...

This should at least give you a starting point for quantities and
relationships.  

John...

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer
kramer@kramerize.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 02:43:26 -0600
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:

At 01:35 AM 2/26/98 , David Tippets wrote:
>John,
>
>Holy shit, am I impressed!  You've just raised the standard for living
>history information.  Even Angela will have trouble topping this one.
>

Thank yee kindly, but I think you exaggerate.

>
>Now, how's about those India rubber shoes that HBC sold at Fort Hall?  Can
>you stretch your latex insight to describe those India rubber shoes?
>

Not having seen a pair it's difficult for me to say.  I've not read any
descriptions of the process.  Nor any details of construction.

I can only assume that at least some part of the manufacture required
piecing the shoe together, much perhaps as was done with leather.  Only
using glue instead of stitching.  Perhaps with.  

I have seen several recipes to make glue for India rubber, mostly made from
India rubber.  Find a source of rubber and I'll dig something out.

Be best to find at least a picture first.

John...


Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer
kramer@kramerize.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:46:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hats... again.

On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, David Tippets wrote:
> Two years ago, JW Hats in SLC sold me a hat made to the specs you
> describe and only charged me around $100 for it.  I hope that they
> haven't tripled their prices.

Dave, the gal I talked to said the word "custom" and $330 in the same
breath.  When she said $330, my mind shut down, my wallet writhed in
pain, and I figured I wuz in the wrongggg place!

> Looks to me like the biggest advantage in buying a Clearwater Bridger
> Hat is that after you pay for it, you'll still have enough money left to
> buy one of those Civil War-era beauties they sell.

I looked at those, but figgered that with topper like that, I'd cut such a
dashing figure at Rendezvous, that all them other skinners would get
jealous and depressed.

I couldna live with myself under such circumstances, so sadly, passed on
buying the "dandy" hats <VBG>

Regards

Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder" Webpage
http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:10:23 -0600
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hats... again.

I'll throw in one more option for anyone who is traveling through St
Joseph, MO.  Lots of history before the Pony Express, worth a little out of
your way.  Luck of the draw.

Stop at the Stetson Factory.  4X sell for about $20 to $75, 10X run about
100 to 150.00.  One time when I was up there I saw a gorgeous black 10X
long nap, low crown, flat brim that only needed a better hat band and
liner.  Wasn't my size.  10X at the Stetson plant is a heavier and denser
felt than the 4X.  

The 100X is like a helmet and only comes in a white rich rancher style,
$500 at the factory thousands at a hat store.  Ostensibly seconds, a few
have flaws, most are over runs and dealer returns.  I don't think they do
mail order.

It's been a few years since I was last up there so prices may not be current.

You can tell hats sold at the factory store, there is a hole punched in the
sweat band.

John...

John T. Kramer, maker of:  Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<  -  >>>As good as old!<<<
http://www.kramerize.com/
mail to: john<kramer@kramerize.com>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:36:37 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Canvas Canoe

John,

I agree that it wasn't called latex paint in the 1700's, but it was 
used according to my source. This weekend, if I have any mind left 
after doing taxes, I'll get together a fact sheet/friendly rebuttal 
for ya. Have a better weekend than I am! (The only saving grace for 
this weekend is that I'm getting my smoothbore out of the shop today 
and can shoot a little tomorrow).


Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 05:55:30 -0800
From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jappaning

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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- ----------
: From: David Tippets <wolverine76@email.msn.com>
: To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jappaning
: Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 4:36 AM
: 
: My point is what is the point of Jappaning.  Are people suggesting that
we use it in our cook ware?  I don't think it would hold up to the fire in
my camp.  I cannot image that someone putting direct heat to the jappan
ware it looks like to me it was for the Big Doctor John Mac of the HBC when
he was trying to impress some one.  I have in the past had discussions with
folks that it was like granite ware,  wrong,  one is like paint the other
is fluxed silica sand on tin.  Not a sub for or excuses to use granite ware
I have read a lot on the list and haven't figured out the point of the
discussion only to inform us about japanned ware..  One of the reasons that
it took so long to get granite ware going was a dependable fluxing agent to
tin is what I have read I copied a half a book to do an article one time to
prove to my brothers that it wasn't cool to use it.  Pre 1840, I love it to
use I have used one coffee pot for years in my home I take it camping its
great, for that not for Pre 1840.  Later Jon T    
: 
: Thanks for the insight on Jappaning --
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD4344.4F574B40
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial"><br><br>----------<br>: From: David =
Tippets &lt;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>wolverine76@email.msn.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">&gt;<br>: To: <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>hist_text@lists.xmission.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jappaning<br>: Date: =
Tuesday, February 24, 1998 4:36 AM<br>: <br>: My point is what is the =
point of Jappaning. &nbsp;Are people suggesting that we use it in our =
cook ware? &nbsp;I don't think it would hold up to the fire in my camp. =
&nbsp;I cannot image that someone putting direct heat to the jappan ware =
it looks like to me it was for the Big Doctor John Mac of the HBC when =
he was trying to impress some one. &nbsp;I have in the past had =
discussions with folks that it was like granite ware, &nbsp;wrong, =
&nbsp;one is like paint the other is fluxed silica sand on tin. =
&nbsp;Not a sub for or excuses to use granite ware I have read a lot on =
the list and haven't figured out the point of the discussion only to =
inform us about japanned ware.. &nbsp;One of the reasons that it took so =
long to get granite ware going was a dependable fluxing agent to tin is =
what I have read I copied a half a book to do an article one time to =
prove to my brothers that it wasn't cool to use it. &nbsp;Pre 1840, I =
love it to use I have used one coffee pot for years in my home I take it =
camping its great, for that not for Pre 1840. &nbsp;Later Jon T =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>: <br>: Thanks for the insight on Jappaning --</p>
</font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD4344.4F574B40--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:55:36 -0800 (PST)
From: zaslow <zaz@pacificnet.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hats... again

Jon,

I may have missed it, but could you give me the address & phone # for
Clearwater (if you have it handy?)  I would like to get a new hat in the furure.

Thanks,

Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1499

At 10:22 PM 2/24/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I sure like my Clearwater Hat   Jon T
>
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:34:04 -0600
From: WIDD-Tim Austin (WIDD-Tim Austin) <AustinT@silltcmd-smtp.army.mil>
Subject: MtMan-List: Latex Paints (Gourd Canteens)

After reading all the different responses something came to mind and
thought I would throw it out for some correct answers.

Have several gourd canteens, and they really make the water taste BAD.
Is there anything that can be used to coat the inside and make the water
not taste bad.  Have tried melted bees wax, only marginally successful,
needed to be re-applied after several uses.  Have talked with several
paint stores and none of them have any paints that they think you can
safely drink after having water sat on it awhile.

Any suggestions would be helpful.

Thank you all in advance.

Tim Austin
timaustin@starcomm.net

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #30
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