From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #41
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk


hist_text-digest       Saturday, March 21 1998       Volume 01 : Number 041




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:37:23 -0700
From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware

Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> wote: 
>>Tentage.  I've been a little disheartned by the lack of description of
tents in the documents I've read... they talk about 'em a lot, but don't
generally describe 'em.  I was looking to buy a Baker, but can't find
anything to support it existed in 1810 in the HBC/NWC territory. <<

Lee, check out my article on tents in Northwest Journal vol. VI; it deals 
with the Northwest (i.e. HBC & NWC) before 1821. The quick synopsis is that 
wedge tents, tipis, and overturned canoes were used for shelter-- the 
article will give you the references for this.

>>Cookware.  I am torn between a small cast iron kettle (5 quarts) and a tin
"corn boiler".<<
Don't make the mistake I did--I'm still using my 5 qt cast iron cauldron! 
(It weighs a ton, and would never have been allowed in a canoe--those feet 
are just made for punching holes in birchbark!) Choose a copper, brass, or 
tin cylindrical kettle instead--they were available in almost every size, 
since they were shippped in 'nests'. I will second the endorsement of 
Goebels--good workmanship and great tinning on the copper! 

>> And... what about these folding frying pans I see
everywhere, is there documentation for these?<<

I haven't seen any documentation for them in the pre-1821 Canadian fur 
trade. Frying pans were used, however (contrary to what you may have read in 
some cookbooks). I'm afraid I haven't found any details, though, aside from 
the everyday frying pans used in English kitchens. Goebels does a 
reproduction of copper frying pans excavated from the Tunica site which is 
about 1780, IIRC.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
agottfre@telusplanet.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:37:23 -0600 (CST)
From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents

>I understand that it's the smoking that makes leather waterproof, does
>this work for canvas too?
>

No.  Smoking closes the pores in the skin.  Canvas hath no pores.

Best to get canvas that's been fire treated and waterproofed.  It'll save
you a lot of misery later.

Cheers,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX 742-1136             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
**********    Opening Day, March 31!!!    **********

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:01:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware

Hallo Again

Most of ya'll will be happy to learn that I've just spent me childrens
food money for the month on subscriptions to both the NW Brigade Club
Quarterly, and the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly.  Also, I finally
recieved my very own personal copy of Russell's "Firearms, Traps, &
Tools of the MM" (the Univ of Idaho can now have theirs back<G>)

Which means I'll spend more time reading, and less pestering my more
knowledgeble cyberfriends.

I really, really, really appreciate all the info, ideas and experiance
that has flowed on this list, and look forward to pestering ya'll a great
deal more as time goes by. 

In general on the tentage and cookware...

I've decided to go the canvas tarp/diamond direction based on feedback
from the forum, and the pot will be a tinned, copper boiler.  I really
like the ability of the kettle for stews and such, but can't have me poor
old packhorses falling over dead from too much wieght (no remarks about me
saddle horse!)  I'm holding off on the frying pan until I can find out
more info... particularly since this area was HBC/NWC and the goods would
have come from Montreal or along that supply line.

Regards

Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder" Webpage
http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:35:33 EST
From: ThisOldFox <ThisOldFox@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Kalamazoo show

In a message dated 98-03-19 10:05:13 EST, you write:

> Is any body else in the group planning on going to the Kalamazoo Antique
Arms
>  and Pioneer Crafts show this week end?  The guy I was going with had to
>  cancell on me, but I will still be there.  Five buildings, all
pre-1890's...

On Sunday, at 12 o'clock, members of the Muzzleloaders Mailing List (MLML)
will be meeting at the table of the Lansing Muzzleloaders Club.  Several
members of that list are also members of this one.  You are welcome to join us
and meet some new friends.

>  Anyone who is familiar witht the show, are there any 'suttlers' there I 
> should make sure to look up?

This doins is so big that everyone who is anyone will have a table there.
You'll be spinnin' yer wheels trying to figure out who to visit.

OldFox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:09:14 -0600
From: Glenn Darilek <llsi@texas.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas and Oilcloth

CT OAKES wrote:

> One other thing to be concerned about with Oil Cloth is fire. 
> . . .   But we should all remember when using period
> materials around fires that cotton, fringed linen (cuffs on hunters frocks)
> and oil cloth are all extremely flamable.  Not saying don't use them, just
> show respect. 

Some very informal research that may be of slight interest: 

After considering various ways to period waterproof my new canvas fly,
I ran out of time and used the Thompson's Water Seal Method.  Actually I
used the Behr and Ace brands of the stuff.

First I tried a burn test comparing canvas treated with Behr and
untreated canvas.  I soaked a strip in Behr and let it dry for 24 
hours.  It didn't smell of petroleum then.  I lit a strip of each 
of them and judged which burned faster.  They were the same - they 
BOTH burned like the blazes!  

So I decided on the total immersion baptism method to apply the water
seal.  I poured the 2 gallons of Behr on the canvas in a 5-gallon
bucket, 
but it wasn't quite enough to totally immerse.  So I added the gallon 
of Ace. The Ace had a strong kerosene smell, while the Behr smelled
less (like naptha).  Anyway, I strung it up in a tree and caught most of
the drippings.  I still had 1.6 gallons left, so it took about 1.4
gallons, including drippings I lost.

I left it outside in moderate weather for 5 days.  I took it down when
it 
started raining and let it dry in the garage.  I weighed it before the
treatment and after.  The weight gain on a 10 x 10 fly was 12 ounces, so
almost of the hydrocarbon solvent evaporated away.  When I took it down,
it had no objectionable 
smell, only a slight pleasant cottonseed oil smell when sniffed up
close. 

For the field test I used it at the Southwestern Regional Rendezvous
(still in progress).  Sunday night it was slowly raining, and the storm
ended with a 
crescendo of lightning and heavy rain.  The fly was snuggy dry until the
storm 
attacked on two fronts - wind blowing the rain horizontally onto our
feet, and 
a sheet of water flowing on the ground under the edges.

We were reintroduced to the smell of wet wool.
Fortunately the weather cleared and all our blankets were dry by just
after noon.

And a shinin' time was had by all.

Iron Burner

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:42:01 EST
From: Mtnman1449 <Mtnman1449@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents

Lee-- I've been using my 10 x 10 canvas for over 15 years.  Goes anywhere and
you can make it into anything--diamond, lean to, stretchit between two trees
or like I've often done out here in the stoney mountains, just roll up in my
buffalo robe with the canvas on the outside and I can survive anything.  Pat
Surrena #1449

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:42:17 -0500
From: "Donald A. Ricetti" <SEGUNDO@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Kalamazoo show

Yeh, I'm going to Kazoo. If you never have been there a word of advise, leave the
woolies home, it gets powerfully warm in ther what with all the bodys and all. If
you have ever been to the Eastern picture all them traders indoors, there you have
it. Bear

JFLEMYTH wrote:

> Hello the net!
>
> Is any body else in the group planning on going to the Kalamazoo Antique Arms
> and Pioneer Crafts show this week end?  The guy I was going with had to
> cancell on me, but I will still be there.  Five buildings, all pre-1890's...
> How could I pass up that?!
>
> Anyone who is familiar witht the show, are there any 'suttlers' there I should
> make sure to look up?
>
> If anybody wants more info on the show, its sponsored by Yankee Doodle Muzzle
> Loaders, Inc.  There number is (616) 327-4557.
>
> John Fleming

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:54:26 EST
From: Mtnman1449 <Mtnman1449@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware

The Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly had an article on fur trade tents by
Charlie Hanson several years back.  Hold on a minute while I scan the listing
of all the articles they wrote. . .Oh, here are a couple articles on oil
cloths in the fur trade, done in 1988 Volume 24 issues 24.1 and 24.3. . .no
where's that tent stuff I was looking for?  Ah, here it is,  -- 1980 Volume
16, issue 16.1.   
pSurrena #1449

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:00:21 EST
From: Mtnman1449 <Mtnman1449@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware

Lee-  as long as you have spent this months food money on stuff including a
membership to the Museum of the fur trade, call the museum and get their list
of all the articles published since Charlie started the Quarterly newsletter
in 1965.  Read, then order a bunch of the past issues with your favorite
topics with next months food money.  Charlie did great work, and it doesn't
cost much to get.  Two things happen then:  first, you get smarter and have
and begin to build an impressive library becoming incredibly smart like
Tippets, and second, without food to eat, you kid become less of an expense
and will hopefully learn to live off the land.  Pat Surrena #1449

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:04:02 EST
From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas and Oilcloth

thanks for the resipie big fella. ben waiting  to do the same thing  i have a
17 ft. teepee and set it up myself most of the time my forge is out side under
a7x 8 fly.
stuburn as i am im going to change to abig fly. sence ive logged on the
network. a month ago i have got some good stuff thanks for the tips .
                                                                            
                                                                         iron
tounge that walks forge wks.                                                  




   

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:17:12 EST
From: ITWHEELER <ITWHEELER@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware

i have made one with three legs . have you got aforge you can use or
barrow.take a good sheet metal fry pan and put thee riveted legs on and you
got it its alittle hard to keep the legs frome pooking things  if you can curl
the feet up and sofen  them a touch an pack it.
                                                                     iron
tounge that walks forge wks.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:37:15 EST
From: JSeminerio <JSeminerio@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Mailing In

Hey Web

I actually did that.  I went to the Mardi Gras Rendezvous in Lafeyette
Loiusiana.  I flew all my stuff in thru UPS.  I always said it would make a
great TV commercial how the guy in the khaki suit had to leave the truck and
take a wagon in to make the delivery.

Granted it was basically a show and tell, and not remote.  But I swear I was
not the guy that ordered the Domino's Pizza and got it delivered at
Polarbear's Eastern.  
(but I think I know who did)

watch your topknot
the flying rendezvouser (only kidding) 
jseminerio

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:37:01 -0700
From: Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware

At 10:00 PM 3/19/98 EST, you wrote:
>Lee-  as long as you have spent this months food money on stuff including a
>membership to the Museum of the fur trade, call the museum and get their list
>of all the articles published since Charlie started the Quarterly newsletter
>in 1965.  Read, then order a bunch of the past issues with your favorite
>topics with next months food money.  Charlie did great work, and it doesn't
>cost much to get.  ........

A while back, Charlie gave me permission to put said list of articles on
the web - it's at:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/mftq.html
It's pretty handy to be able to use your browser's search capability to
find articles on topics of interest.  Also on the page is the address to
order the back issues from.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean Rudy   AMM#1530     Email: drudy@xmission.com
Park City, Utah          WWW: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 03:44:16 -0800
From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD53B2.74BD77A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Works for me also.  Jon T

- ----------
: From: Mtnman1449 <Mtnman1449@aol.com>
: To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents
: Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 6:42 PM
: 
: Lee-- I've been using my 10 x 10 canvas for over 15 years.  Goes anywhere
and
: you can make it into anything--diamond, lean to, stretchit between two
trees
: or like I've often done out here in the stoney mountains, just roll up in
my
: buffalo robe with the canvas on the outside and I can survive anything. 
Pat
: Surrena #1449
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD53B2.74BD77A0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">Works for me also. &nbsp;Jon =
T<br><br>----------<br>: From: Mtnman1449 &lt;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Mtnman1449@aol.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">&gt;<br>: To: <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>hist_text@lists.xmission.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents<br>: Date: =
Thursday, March 19, 1998 6:42 PM<br>: <br>: Lee-- I've been using my 10 =
x 10 canvas for over 15 years. &nbsp;Goes anywhere and<br>: you can make =
it into anything--diamond, lean to, stretchit between two trees<br>: or =
like I've often done out here in the stoney mountains, just roll up in =
my<br>: buffalo robe with the canvas on the outside and I can survive =
anything. &nbsp;Pat<br>: Surrena #1449</p>
</font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD53B2.74BD77A0--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:29:54 -0500
From: "Scott Allen" <allen@blueridge-ef.SAIC.COM>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Mailing In

Date:          Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:37:15 -0500 (EST)
JSeminerio wrote:
  But I swear I was not the guy that ordered the Domino's Pizza and 
got it delivered at Polarbear's Eastern.  
(but I think I know who did)

I was there too! No pizza though. We were the guys that put the 65lb. 
streamship round on the fire for days. People would come straight to 
the fire by following their nose and exclaim that they had been 
smelling it all thru camp. We'd invite them to take a piece and later 
there'd be a jug or loaf of bread, etc set by the fire and we 
wouldn't know who left it. Great folks these buckskiiners!
Did you happen to jump in the stock tank down in the woods? After I 
did, I thought I was a girl for a couple days! Brrrrrrr.



Your most humble servant,
Scott Allen
Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick
Fairplay, MD
http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:04:48 EST
From: LODGEPOLE <LODGEPOLE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware

In a message dated 98-03-17 10:20:47 EST, you write:

<< As ya'll have probably gathered, I am in the process of replacing gear
 with documented equipment.  It's a fun, if expensive process.  I'm just
 hoping that the Missus don't toss me out afore I'm done.  She mutters a
 lot about expensive toys, but hasn't yet reached for the skillet! >>

   I think more than just a few of us can relate to all of this Lee.  It's a
trap many of us fall into, me included.  I, along with the guys camp with, am
in the same process as well. Good luck and do as I have done.....Hide the
skillet!

                                    Longshot

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:40:56 -0600
From: wetshirt@juno.com (David k Bostrom)
Subject: [none]

Old fox,
	How does one get on that muzzleloaders mailing list (MML) I am
surly interested.
	A friend of mine is trying to restore an original smoothbore, it
is of possibly german origin, the only marks on it are as follows;
1.) directly in front of the hammer hole, on the lock plate is the name
		D..NEPPES
The fist "E" in Neppes may be an "I" do to wear I'm not sure
2.) there are "A's" on the inside of the lock plate and on the heads of
most of the internal screws
These are the only clues
Any help would be appreciated
Many thanks
Wet Shirt #1645
Aux Ailments de Pays!

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:23:24 EST
From: SWcushing <SWcushing@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Re: MtMan-List: Capote oxymorons (longish)

In a message dated 3/19/98 2:57:26 PM, you wrote:

<< Malhiot repeatedly 
calls  Natives 'cra^bles' (especially when he's upset with them).>>

Malhiot is actually trying to say "cry babies" in English.......

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:49:53 +0100
From: mstar176@wf.net (Basha Richey)
Subject: MtMan-List: Lost Fork

                    "Capote Oxymoron, Sack Hats, and Effigy Hoods"
A big Thanks, to everyone who contributed to the
discuss'in of the above subjects.

You certainly learned me a lot.  Now that I've bean edge-a-macated on
French an such, I've got one more problem with my cypherin.  A couple of
times when I was a cold trailing some folks by the names of Coulter, Potts,
Henry, Clark and Lewis I've came to a place that they all call Three Forks.
For the life of me it looks simple enough to cypher on one hand, without
even taking your mokersons off.  Every time I've been there, it's been
same, the Jefferson runs into the Madison, ONE fork,  an mile or so down
the river the Gallatin runs in on the right, TWO forks.  The way I sees,
it's THREE RIVERS (maybe Four if'n you counts the Missouri), or TWO FORKS.
I ain't bean able to find that third fork yet.  Maybee it's another one of
them moron hoo-doo's a lurking in the willers that's got me Bufflered.
Howsomever, if you ever pass through that country, be on the lookout for
that lost fork!

A wait'n fer the green-up,
Yellow Stone

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:34:02 -0600
From: "Pamela Wheeler" <rebelfreehold@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents

I smoked my 6by6 canvas with a pine fire and rubbed pine resin into it. The
smoking just helps to keep it from being "sticky". It NEVER leaked!
YellowFeather
AMM # 251

- ----------
> From: Henry B. Crawford <mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents
> Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 1:37 PM
> 
> >I understand that it's the smoking that makes leather waterproof, does
> >this work for canvas too?
> >
> 
> No.  Smoking closes the pores in the skin.  Canvas hath no pores.
> 
> Best to get canvas that's been fire treated and waterproofed.  It'll save
> you a lot of misery later.
> 
> Cheers,
> HBC
> 
> *****************************************
> Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
> mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu     Museum of Texas Tech University
> 806/742-2442           Box 43191
> FAX 742-1136             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
>                WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
> **********    Opening Day, March 31!!!    **********

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #41
******************************

-
 To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to
"majordomo@xmission.com"
 with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.