From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #69 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, May 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 069 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 15:29:08 -0600 From: bob----debie Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Raton Rondy.. Far-West river gorge mountain man roo will be held May 21-26 just outside Mesquite, Nv. Contact Richard Myers 702-346-6038 for info. this sounds like a busy event. Wild boar huntjust off site. Shootin and hawk throwin off horseback, horsedrawn wagon and canoe. buffalo roast Saturday night. Chucker and Pheasant release for shot or bow hunt. A special shoot will be held in powder and bow. Winner in each of these categories wins the oppurtinuty (whazzat??!!)to hunt and harvest an exotic four horned sheep. Santa Fe Trails shoot. june 7-13. Just outside Raton, N.M. Wolf Creek shoot and roo. Outside Pagosas Springs, Co. June 18-21 Hope to see some of ya there Bob G Thunder Ridge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 15:26:49 -0600 From: bob----debie Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Raton Rondy.. EmmaPeel2 wrote: > > Where exactly is the Raton Rondy being held, and when? If we hide behind a > tree, is it possible to camp? Sounds like fun. \ Off I-25 take exit 455. Cut back north and under the I. take that north to N.M. 555 and then west. There's a Sonic drive in close to the intersection. Take N.M. 555 5.6 miles to the road to Coal Canyon. that cuts back south. look for the signs. Bob G Thunder Ridge http://www.plan-et.com/thunder/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:00:56 EDT From: Casapy123 Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver Club Angela, Thanks for the positive words about the Beaver Club article. Also thanks for the additional info. We tried to get a hold of several different publishers, who had photos of original Beaver Club medallions in their books, to ask permission to reprint their picture. With deadlines and such, we had no luck, thus decided to use a picture of the current medallion being sold. You are absolutely right, it is different from originals in several ways. As for the ribbon, I tend to think the medallion was worn suspended from a blue ribbon around the neck, certainly not from the short ribbon with the metal bar such as is being sold. If I ever get to those museums, I'd like to take a look at those originals! Jim Hardee AMM#1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:00:57 EDT From: Casapy123 Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bug's Boys Dean, Thanks for making the point about DeVoto's origin of Bug's Boys. I once had a discussion with Dr. Fred Gowans about the origin of "Bug's Boys" and he said it is not clear where it came from. He did say that the Beelzebub angle was a "generally accepted theory" but that still leaves us with no source. So, it is better to rely on this as a possible solution and keep searching for first hand documentation. Jim Hardee AMM#1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:23:26 -0600 From: bob----debie Subject: MtMan-List: looking for a roo I'm going to be in northern Nevada through the 26th or 27th aned hope to find a roo between Mesquete, NV and Raton, N.M. the weekend of the 30th. If you happen to know of a shoot or roo within a day or so drive of that area would you please let me know? Thanks Bob G ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:34:18 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Adhesives At 08:39 PM 5/10/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hello the net! > >Sorry, but I am bringing out another question here. It seems I have a real >talent to get some almost too lively discussion going on the list, but I think >I'm safe this time. > >My wife teaches school, and is always trying to do projects based on 18th= and >19th century tools and technology. Does any body have any old recepies for >adhesives or know some prime ingredients used in them? She has recepies= for >making soaps, dies, and other things, but not glues. > >Any imput would be appreciated. (Even things that are not totally period >correct may help with simple projects for children.) Again, thanks for all >this list teaches all us pilgrims! > >John Fleming >=20 ADHESIVES There were many forms of hide glue in the past. French glue, Scotch glue, fish hide glue, rabbit skin glue, parchment glue, and more. Today rabbit skin glue is available at art supply stores where it is generally used in conjunction with whiting to size canvas or to make Gesso. Pearled, ground, or other trade names for the various dry forms of hide glue, sold by primarily woodworking suppliers, are all about the same today. Scotch glue was darker, came from older animals and thought to be stronger. French glue was lighter and finer and came from younger animals. Masters would blend to meet their requirements and specifications. The glue is made from the hides and hooves of horses, cattle and most any other beast. The descriptions for rendering, have been generally accurate as previously posted. Fish hide glue was a fine grade used in precise work like the assembly of split Tonkin cane fishing rods. Parchment being made of lamb skin made fine glue when rendered. There have been many receipts developed to use these most common glues to many purposes. LIQUID HIDE GLUE Cover dry glue with strong vinegar (20%+, acetic acid) in a tightly stoppered glass bottle and set aside several days to dissolve. NOTE: this stuff really stinks. Or go to Sears and buy a squeeze bottle of liquid hide glue (also available under different labels, all I think made by Franklin) just as inconvenient to use as any squeeze bottle glue. Liquid hide glue has a one year shelf life. =20 Diluting hide glue in whiskey can make liquid hide glue with an unlimited shelf life. Other receipts for liquid hide glue include nitric acid and other less friendly materials. Glue has been made of many materials, depending on the purpose. Animal blood, milk, rosin, resin, lime, eggs, flour, sandarac, mastic, arabic, parchment, acids, oxides of zinc, copper and other metals, starch, litharge, wood ashes, India Rubber, isinglass, and much more. =20 Waterproof glues, glues for glass, pottery, china, wood, paper, marble, leather, tortoise shell, iron vessels, and everything else one can think of; had glue formulated to each specific purpose in the past. There is no need for modern expedients. Canadian Balsam is still used as cement for microscope slide covers. A few old receipts=85=20 PORTABLE GLUE Take 1 lb. of the best glue (dry hide glue), boil and strain it very clear; boil likewise 4 oz. of isinglass (made from air bladders of sturgeon, not the mineral), put it in a double glue pot (small double boiler), with 1/2 lb. of fine brown sugar, and boil it pretty thick; then pour into moulds; when cold cut and dry them in small pieces. It will fasten paper without the process of damping. NOTE: It dilutes immediately in warm water and is most useful to draughtsmen, architects, turners and more. FLOUR PASTE Paste is formed principally of wheaten flour boiled in water till it be of a glutinous or viscid consistence. It may be prepared with those ingredients simply for common purposes; but when it is used by bookbinders, or for paper-hangings to rooms, it is usual to mix a fourth, fifth or sixth of the weight of the flour of powdered resin; and where it is wanted still more tenacious, gum arabic or any kind of size may be added. JAPANESE CEMENT, or RICE GLUE This elegant cement is made by mixing rice-flour intimately with cold water, and then gently boiling it; it is beautifully white, and dries almost transparent. Papers pasted together by means of this cement will sooner separate in their own substance than at the joining, which makes it useful in the preparation of curious paper articles, as tea-trays, ladies dressing boxes, and other objects that require layers of paper to be cemented together. NOTE: Rice Glue is excellent for paper conservation work. Terminology and spellings in the above receipts have been preserved from the original, extraneous copy edited out. All are correct to our period of interest. Additional information on glue can be found searching the archive on Dean's web site. I have been out of town for a few weeks on business and am just now catching up on my e-mail.=20 John=85 Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer kramer@kramerize.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:04:03 EDT From: SWcushing Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1803 Harper's Ferry Rifle In a message dated 5/14/98 5:10:56 PM, you wrote: <> I have a copy of Robert M. Reilly's "United States Martial Flintlocks", that covers the Harpers Ferry rifle, Model 1803, types 1 and 2 in detail. I'd be glad to send you a copy of the pages if you need them, just email me your address. Reilly does mention however ...."It has also been speculated that they (the H Ferry 1803) accompanied the renowned expedition of Lewis and Clark into the Louisiana Territory in 1804, but this seems somewhat unlikely due to the time factors involved." The Model 1803 in both types is historically significant in that it is the only muzzleloading flintlock RIFLE produced in either of the national armories. No rifles with flintlock ignition were ever produced at Springfield A total of 4,015 Model 1803, Type 1 were produced at Harpers Ferry between 1804 and 1807. Most were 54cal, had a 33 inch barrel, and weighed about 9lbs. A substantial number of existing Model 1803 rifles are know to have smoothbore barrels. Wether these were reamed out subsequent to manufacture or were produced as such is not known. Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:54:11 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Adhesives John as usual you outdid yourself with your response. You are a wealth of knowledge and when you come on line you say it like it is. this should put the glue and adhesives thing to bed I will be storeing your response for future usage. many thanks for your offline help with finishes and your taking the time when i called. Hope you get to turkey hunt and get a big one-with the call i made for you I got a 17 lb gobbler with my 28 gage trade gun this year. used one of my calls and he ran almost over the top of me. came in from my back passed within about 7 or 8 yards and headed for the decoy and started to strut with love on his mind. smoke cleared and bird was down - 5 pellets in his head using a 1 3/4 oz combination of bb and 0000 buck mixed backed with 85 gr fffg. AGAIN ---DARN GOOD INPUT-- KEEP UP THE GOOD INFO. "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:12:05 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1803 Harper's Ferry Rifle (THE FOR RUNNER FOR THE HAWKINS) steve: where did you get the book you use for reference-- I would like to get a copy for my library- the photo copies of the pages you sent me gave some darn good info. many thanks. I dropped the guy that had the Jacob dickard a note and asked if he still had the gun I would appreciate some pictures of it for you. haven't got a response from him but if i do i will contact you offline and get you a copy of them for your reference and file. list: It was always my impression that lewis and clark did have 1803 harper's ferries with them and they were the pre production guns to be tested on the frontiers. they had rifled and smoothbore all were in 54 cal or about 28 gage. I saw one that had a .527 bore on it but it had very shallow rifling and a slow twist like it was made to shoot round ball and minnie's and to load easily. it is still my belief that the 1803 rifle and the english sporting rifle were the combination that lead to the Hawkens- Jake and sam used the better points of each and made something that was rugged and dependable-- they copied the lines and style. HERE IS A GOOD DISCUSSION TOPIC. "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 On Sun, 17 May 1998 19:04:03 EDT SWcushing writes: > >In a message dated 5/14/98 5:10:56 PM, you wrote: > ><issued to >the Lews and Clark expedition? >> > >I have a copy of Robert M. Reilly's "United States Martial >Flintlocks", that >covers the Harpers Ferry rifle, Model 1803, types 1 and 2 in detail. >I'd be >glad to send you a copy of the pages if you need them, just email me >your >address. > >Reilly does mention however ...."It has also been speculated that they >(the H >Ferry > 1803) accompanied the renowned expedition of Lewis and Clark into the >Louisiana Territory in 1804, but this seems somewhat unlikely due to >the time >factors involved." The Model 1803 in both types is historically >significant >in that it is the only muzzleloading flintlock RIFLE produced in >either of the >national armories. No rifles with flintlock ignition were ever >produced at >Springfield >A total of 4,015 Model 1803, Type 1 were produced at Harpers Ferry >between >1804 and 1807. Most were 54cal, had a 33 inch barrel, and weighed >about 9lbs. >A substantial number of existing Model 1803 rifles are know to have >smoothbore >barrels. Wether these were reamed out subsequent to manufacture or >were >produced as such is not known. > >Regards, >Steve > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:47:09 EDT From: JFLEMYTH Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Adhesives Thanks to every one who sent information about adhesives. My wife is really enjoying going through all this. I think I am going to try some of John Kramer's concoctions myself! Again, thanks for all the great input and people on this list! John Fleming ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:40:48 -0700 From: "Gail Carbiener" Subject: MtMan-List: Medical Remedies.... Since I am doing living history of a trapper with the Hudson's Bay Company Brigade on the Snake River in 1826, I have been reading as much as possible about those times. Peter Odgen's journals tell of terrible weather, lack of food and of course Indian troubles. Only once do I find and reference to medical problems and that was from eating beaver who were eating hemlock! The medical solution was to drink pepper and gunpowder mixed in water! What about frostbite and freezing of feet, toes, fingers? Odgen even talks about the men not having shoes or blankets, but no talk of men being disabled. Anybody got other references of such problems and how they were treated? Gail (In Cold Central Oregon) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:56:35 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: MtMan-List: Smoke from Mexico Friends, Now I can relate somewhat to what the folks in Spokane were getting 18 years ago today. The Mexican fires are making the skies here more than a bit hazy. I really cuts the intensity of the sun, and irritates the eyes to boot. Some friends were camping down in Big Bend NP this weekend, and it was pretty intense for them. I can't wait till the winds shift. I hope my gourd plants survive. We need a good thunder boomer. Tears, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:39:25 -0600 From: "Scott Singer - \"Spinner\"" Subject: MtMan-List: stuck touch hole liner Anyone have suggestions on how to remove a stuck touchhole liner? It screws in with a flat bladed screwdriver. I usually don't tighten it hard, but I'm starting to really chew up the slot trying to get it unscrewed. - ------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Singer, aka "Spinner" WWW Rendezvous Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/~wwwrendezvous Territorial Dispatch/National Association of Buckskinners Web Site http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4833 - --------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #69 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.