From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1240 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, September 14 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1240 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Randy's Aussie dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Randy's Aussie dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Sparking of dogs... -       Re: MtMan-List: Gourd Horn Saddle Maker -       MtMan-List: Water Spaniel -       Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel -       MtMan-List: Rocky Mountain House -       Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel -       Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel -       MtMan-List: Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:06:46 -0400 From: packratt@erols.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Randy's Aussie dogs Do you mind if I cross post your message to another list? The dog breeding list I'm on would get a laugh out of it. Thanks Le James and Sue Stone wrote: > Be sure to consult a knowledgeable source before cross breeding. I > ended up with what I thought might be an ideal duck dog...Australian > Shephard and Golden Retriever. I was expecting a dog who would round > uup ducks and herd them by me on slow days, then retrieve what I shot. > My first surprised was the dog's color. I swear, if she wasn't moving > on the marsh, even if you knew exactly where she was, and even if she > was less than 50 feet away, she would disappear. Talk about natural > camo! Unfortunately, she neither liked to retrieve nor herd ducks. I > coulda got rich off that line! > poor sparks > > busterize wrote: > > >I too, have an ACD, a red bitch, small, but tough. Wouldn't have any other > >breed after this one. Surprised but pleased they appear to have landed here > >so early in this country's history. > > > >Geri > > > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:35:15 -0600 From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Randy's Aussie dogs - --------------010104060108090500080509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Le Cross post away! Humor is useless unless it's shared. Sparks packratt@erols.com wrote: >Do you mind if I cross post your message to another list? The dog breeding list >I'm on would get a laugh out of it. > >Thanks >Le > >James and Sue Stone wrote: > > > >>Be sure to consult a knowledgeable source before cross breeding. I >>ended up with what I thought might be an ideal duck dog...Australian >>Shephard and Golden Retriever. I was expecting a dog who would round >>uup ducks and herd them by me on slow days, then retrieve what I shot. >> My first surprised was the dog's color. I swear, if she wasn't moving >>on the marsh, even if you knew exactly where she was, and even if she >>was less than 50 feet away, she would disappear. Talk about natural >>camo! Unfortunately, she neither liked to retrieve nor herd ducks. I >>coulda got rich off that line! >>poor sparks >> >>busterize wrote: >> >> >> >>>I too, have an ACD, a red bitch, small, but tough. Wouldn't have any other >>>breed after this one. Surprised but pleased they appear to have landed here >>>so early in this country's history. >>> >>>Geri >>> >>> >>> >>>---------------------- >>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > - --------------010104060108090500080509 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Le
Cross post away!  Humor is useless unless it's shared.
Sparks

packratt@erols.com wrote:
Do you mind if I cross post your message to another list? The dog breeding list
I'm on would get a laugh out of it.

Thanks
Le

James and Sue Stone wrote:

  
Be sure to consult a knowledgeable source before cross breeding.  I
ended up with what I thought might be an ideal duck dog...Australian
Shephard and Golden Retriever.  I was expecting a dog who would round
uup ducks and herd them by me on slow days, then retrieve what I shot.
 My first surprised was the dog's color.  I swear, if she wasn't moving
on the marsh, even if you knew exactly where she was, and even if she
was less than 50 feet away, she would disappear.  Talk about natural
camo! Unfortunately, she neither liked to retrieve nor herd ducks.  I
coulda got rich off that line!
poor sparks

busterize wrote:

    
I too, have an ACD, a red bitch, small, but tough.  Wouldn't have any other
breed after this one. Surprised but pleased they appear to have landed here
so early in this country's history.

Geri



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- --------------010104060108090500080509-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:52:24 -0600 From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sparking of dogs... - --------------040509010305020308000206 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/amewatsp.cfm The American Water Spaniel wasn't recognized as an AKC breed until 1940, because people didn't want to ruin "it's hunting ability." The American Water Spaniel looks like a cross between cocker spaniel and a curly coat retriever. AWS are 15-18 at the shoulder and 25 to 45 pounds. They were bred for cold water retrieving of waterfowl, flushing and retrieving upland game including rabbits. AWS was the first sporting breed developed in America. Sparks Trivia: One trait the developers wanted in a golden retriever was a good nose. They including blood hounds in the mix. Dale Nelson wrote: > This is just some information that when I read it years ago it stuck, > mostly because it really blew my mind at the time. I was reading the > "Journal of a Mountain Man: James Clyman" edited by Linda > Hasselstrom. Jim is the guy that sewed Jeb Smith's ear back on after > the grizzly attack. He later left the mountains, and didn't return > for 15 years, which brings us up to 1844. A little late, but still > very interesting. James left the east in the spring of 1844, and > traveled to Oregon, then to California, then raised a party in 1846 to > return to the states. They started in April of that year and crossed > the Sierra via the head of the Yuba river, being forced by snow to the > north until they could force a crossing in soft snow up to 8 feet > deep. They desended Donnor pass through the snow and over the cliffs > without loosing any livestock, but all this time both man and beast > suffered from the cold and weather. Passing what is now Donnor Lake, > they followed the Truckee river past where Reno now is, and followed > it until it turned north. From there they cut across heading for the > Humbolt (Clyman call it the Mary's) river, and when they were crossing > the sink of the Humbolt, or somewhere close to there they came to some > hot springs. I'll now quote from Clyman's journal for May 9, 1846. > " ----------- near sun set we stoped at some holes of Brackish water > haveing traveled 30 miles today at about 15 miles or half way from > Waushee [Truckee] river to the first water near Mays. Lake still exist > a cauldron of Boiling water no stream issues from it [at] present but > it stands in several pools Boiling and again disappearing some of > these pools have beautifull clear water Boiling in them and other emit > Quantites of mud into one of these muddy pools my little water > spaniel Lucky went poor fellow not knowing that it was Boiling hot > he deliberately walked in to the caldron to slake his thirst and cool > his limbs when to his sad disapointment and my sorrow he scalded > himself allmost insantly to death I felt more for his loss than > any other animal I ever lost in my life as he had been my constant > companion in all my wandering since I left Milwawkee and I vainly > hoped to see him return to his old master in his native village > --------" That's it, a water spaniel that was with him for > years, and that is the only mention. That's why I remembered it, all > the struggles in the snow and everything else, and not once does he > mention how the dog got through, or if he had to carry him or what > ever. Is a water spaniel and a cocker spaniel the same thing? It's > hard to picture a grizzled mountain man with a cocker spaniel -- like > I said, it blew my mind. > Dale Nelson > Roseburg, OR - --------------040509010305020308000206 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 


http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/amewatsp.cfm

The American Water Spaniel wasn't recognized as an AKC breed until 1940, because people didn't want to ruin "it's hunting ability."  The American Water Spaniel looks like a cross between cocker spaniel and a curly coat retriever.  AWS are 15-18 at the shoulder and 25 to 45 pounds.  They were bred for cold water retrieving of waterfowl, flushing and retrieving upland game including rabbits.  AWS was the first sporting breed developed in America.

Sparks
Trivia:  One trait the developers wanted in a golden retriever was a good nose.  They including blood hounds in the mix.


Dale Nelson wrote:
This is just some information that when I read it years ago it stuck, mostly because it really blew my mind at the time.  I was reading the "Journal of a Mountain Man: James Clyman" edited by Linda Hasselstrom.  Jim is the guy that sewed Jeb Smith's ear back on after the grizzly attack.  He later left the mountains, and didn't return for 15 years, which brings us up to 1844.  A little late, but still very interesting.  James left the east in the spring of 1844, and traveled to Oregon, then to California, then raised a party in 1846 to return to the states.  They started in April of that year and crossed the Sierra via the head of the Yuba river, being forced by snow to the north until they could force a crossing in soft snow up to 8 feet deep.  They desended Donnor pass through the snow and over the cliffs without loosing any livestock, but all this time both man and beast suffered from the cold and weather.  Passing what is now Donnor Lake, they followed the Truckee river past where Reno now is, and followed it until it turned north.  From there they cut across heading for the Humbolt (Clyman call it the Mary's) river, and when they were crossing the sink of the Humbolt, or somewhere close to there they came to some hot springs.  I'll now quote from Clyman's journal for May 9, 1846.   " ----------- near sun set we stoped at some holes of Brackish water haveing traveled 30 miles today    at about 15 miles or half way from Waushee [Truckee] river to the first water near Mays. Lake still exist a cauldron of Boiling water  no stream issues from it [at] present but it stands in several pools Boiling and again disappearing    some of these pools have beautifull clear water Boiling in them and other emit Quantites of mud   into one of these muddy pools my little water spaniel Lucky went     poor fellow not knowing that it was Boiling hot he deliberately walked in to the caldron to slake his thirst and cool his limbs when to his sad disapointment and my sorrow he scalded himself allmost insantly to death     I felt more for his loss than any other animal I ever lost in my life as he had been my constant companion in all my wandering since I left Milwawkee and I vainly hoped to see him return to his old master in his native village --------"       That's it, a water spaniel that was with him for years, and that is the only mention.  That's why I remembered it, all the struggles in the snow and everything else, and not once does he mention how the dog got through, or if he had to carry him or what ever.  Is a water spaniel and a cocker spaniel the same thing?  It's hard to picture a grizzled mountain man with a cocker spaniel -- like I said, it blew my mind.
Dale Nelson
Roseburg, OR 

- --------------040509010305020308000206-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:51:47 -0600 From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gourd Horn Saddle Maker At 07:13 PM 9/12/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I have not seen anyone with any help for you and I haven't got the info you are after. Perhaps you got it off line. I would like to hear how it goes. Can you keep us updated? > >Wynn Ormond Hi Wynn, Have you seen Rick Palmer's gourd horn saddle? I contacted Clay off-list and told him that Rick has one and could maybe send pictures. Allen - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 11:57:31 -0700 From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel Dale, Water Spaniels are larger than cockers, and bred for retrieving from the water. They were popular in England with those hunters shooting wild fowl. Don't know when they originated, but wonder if cockers were even considered a "breed" at the time. Many of the smaller breeds were created for the convenience of ladies wanting a smaller "lap" dog. For instance, my ACD weighs 24 pounds, whereas the average ACD can weigh anywhere from 30 to 40 lbs. Both her mom & pap were on the small side and each litter produced by that bitch were small. Geri - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:16:33 -0600 From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel Cockers were originally from the same stock as Water Spaniels according to an English Water Spaniel Club website. Cockers were originally developed as a hunting breed specifically for Woodcocks...thus the name 'cocker. Later, cockers were bred to be stupid, small and pretty for lap dog perfection.* It is apparent in golden retrievers that almost two distinct breeds are present. The "show dog" seems, large, blond, long-haired and not necessarily bright. Hunting/field trial stock goldens are small framed (to have better bone/muscle mass ratio for longer endurance), smart, shorter haired, really really fast, , with good noses and "mark" well ("mark" being the skill of watching a bird fall and retrieving it, rather than putting territorial "markers" in the living room). *According to Mrs. Stone, eminent historian and knitter. Sparks and Mrs Stone busterize wrote: >Dale, Water Spaniels are larger than cockers, and bred for retrieving from >the water. They were popular in England with those hunters shooting wild >fowl. > >Don't know when they originated, but wonder if cockers were even considered >a "breed" at the time. Many of the smaller breeds were created for the >convenience of ladies wanting a smaller "lap" dog. For instance, my ACD >weighs 24 pounds, whereas the average ACD can weigh anywhere from 30 to 40 >lbs. Both her mom & pap were on the small side and each litter produced by >that bitch were small. > >Geri > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:46:53 -0600 (MDT) From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Rocky Mountain House Dear List, Has anyone been to Rocky Mountain House in Alberta, Canada? If so, is it worth going out of the way to see? What is there? Thank you bb - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:29:24 -0500 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel Mrs. Jones is right about all the Cocker Spaniels that I ever met. More stupid even than Dachshunds and that's saying something. (Wienie dogs aren't afraid of a damn thing but their chew toys are smarter than they are.) Plus, the nastiest dog bite I ever knew about was a Cocker Spaniel biting the toddler child of the dog's owner, ripping up the child's face in the process. According to the owner, the damn dog simply snapped and jumped the baby.....right in the living room in front of everybody. He should have shot it the day the rabies observation period was up. Lanney - ----- Original Message ----- From: "James and Sue Stone" To: Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 2:16 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel > Cockers were originally from the same stock as Water Spaniels according > to an English Water Spaniel Club website. Cockers were originally > developed as a hunting breed specifically for Woodcocks...thus the name > 'cocker. Later, cockers were bred to be stupid, small and pretty for > lap dog perfection.* > > It is apparent in golden retrievers that almost two distinct breeds are > present. The "show dog" seems, large, blond, long-haired and not > necessarily bright. Hunting/field trial stock goldens are small framed > (to have better bone/muscle mass ratio for longer endurance), smart, > shorter haired, really really fast, , with good noses and "mark" well > ("mark" being the skill of watching a bird fall and retrieving it, > rather than putting territorial "markers" in the living room). > > *According to Mrs. Stone, eminent historian and knitter. > > Sparks and Mrs Stone > > busterize wrote: > > >Dale, Water Spaniels are larger than cockers, and bred for retrieving from > >the water. They were popular in England with those hunters shooting wild > >fowl. > > > >Don't know when they originated, but wonder if cockers were even considered > >a "breed" at the time. Many of the smaller breeds were created for the > >convenience of ladies wanting a smaller "lap" dog. For instance, my ACD > >weighs 24 pounds, whereas the average ACD can weigh anywhere from 30 to 40 > >lbs. Both her mom & pap were on the small side and each litter produced by > >that bitch were small. > > > >Geri > > > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:20:27 -0600 From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel - --------------000103040907060001050705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now Now Lanney, Let's not be too hard on the Dachshunds. After all, they were bred as 'badger dogs.' For a dog to go headlong into a badger hole after the critter he HAS to have those two traits...fearless and stupid always served him well! Sparks Lanney Ratcliff wrote: >Mrs. Jones is right about all the Cocker Spaniels that I ever met. More >stupid even than Dachshunds and that's saying something. (Wienie dogs >aren't afraid of a damn thing but their chew toys are smarter than they >are.) Plus, the nastiest dog bite I ever knew about was a Cocker Spaniel >biting the toddler child of the dog's owner, ripping up the child's face in >the process. According to the owner, the damn dog simply snapped and >jumped the baby.....right in the living room in front of everybody. He >should have shot it the day the rabies observation period was up. >Lanney > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James and Sue Stone" >To: >Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 2:16 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel > > > > >>Cockers were originally from the same stock as Water Spaniels according >>to an English Water Spaniel Club website. Cockers were originally >>developed as a hunting breed specifically for Woodcocks...thus the name >>'cocker. Later, cockers were bred to be stupid, small and pretty for >>lap dog perfection.* >> >>It is apparent in golden retrievers that almost two distinct breeds are >>present. The "show dog" seems, large, blond, long-haired and not >>necessarily bright. Hunting/field trial stock goldens are small framed >>(to have better bone/muscle mass ratio for longer endurance), smart, >>shorter haired, really really fast, , with good noses and "mark" well >>("mark" being the skill of watching a bird fall and retrieving it, >>rather than putting territorial "markers" in the living room). >> >>*According to Mrs. Stone, eminent historian and knitter. >> >>Sparks and Mrs Stone >> >>busterize wrote: >> >> >> >>>Dale, Water Spaniels are larger than cockers, and bred for retrieving >>> >>> >from > > >>>the water. They were popular in England with those hunters shooting wild >>>fowl. >>> >>>Don't know when they originated, but wonder if cockers were even >>> >>> >considered > > >>>a "breed" at the time. Many of the smaller breeds were created for the >>>convenience of ladies wanting a smaller "lap" dog. For instance, my ACD >>>weighs 24 pounds, whereas the average ACD can weigh anywhere from 30 to >>> >>> >40 > > >>>lbs. Both her mom & pap were on the small side and each litter produced >>> >>> >by > > >>>that bitch were small. >>> >>>Geri >>> >>> >>> >>>---------------------- >>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> >> > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > - --------------000103040907060001050705 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now Now Lanney,
Let's not be too hard on the Dachshunds.  After all, they were bred as 'badger dogs.'  For a dog to go headlong into a badger hole after the critter he HAS to have those two traits...fearless and stupid always served him well!
Sparks

Lanney Ratcliff wrote:
Mrs. Jones is right about all the Cocker Spaniels that I  ever met.  More
stupid even than Dachshunds and that's saying something.  (Wienie dogs
aren't afraid of a damn thing but their chew toys are smarter than they
are.)   Plus, the nastiest dog bite I ever knew about was a Cocker Spaniel
biting the toddler child of the dog's owner, ripping up the child's face in
the process.   According to the owner, the damn dog simply snapped and
jumped the baby.....right in the living room in front of everybody.   He
should have shot it the day the rabies observation period was up.
Lanney

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James and Sue Stone" <jandsstone@earthlink.net>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel


  
Cockers were originally from the same stock as Water Spaniels according
to an English Water Spaniel Club website.   Cockers were originally
developed as a hunting breed specifically for Woodcocks...thus the name
'cocker.   Later, cockers were bred to be stupid, small and pretty for
lap dog perfection.*

It is apparent in golden retrievers that almost two distinct breeds are
present.  The "show dog" seems, large, blond, long-haired and not
necessarily bright.  Hunting/field trial stock goldens are small framed
(to have better bone/muscle mass ratio for longer endurance), smart,
shorter haired, really really fast, , with good noses and "mark" well
("mark" being the skill of watching a bird fall and retrieving it,
rather than putting territorial "markers" in the living room).

*According to Mrs. Stone, eminent historian and knitter.

Sparks and Mrs Stone

busterize wrote:

    
Dale, Water Spaniels are larger than cockers, and bred for retrieving
      
from
  
the water. They were popular in England with those hunters shooting wild
fowl.

Don't know when they originated, but wonder if cockers were even
      
considered
  
a "breed" at the time. Many of the smaller breeds were created for the
convenience of ladies wanting a smaller "lap" dog. For instance, my ACD
weighs 24 pounds, whereas the average ACD can weigh anywhere from 30 to
      
40
  
lbs. Both her mom & pap were on the small side and each litter produced
      
by
  
that bitch were small.

Geri



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- --------------000103040907060001050705-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:44:25 -0600 From: James and Sue Stone Subject: MtMan-List: Dogs Don't get me wrong. I love dogs. I also have my unabashed preferrence for larger sporting dogs. particularly retrievers, setters, stock dogs, and other such sporting and working dogs. I think it's cool some people bred dogs for hunting badgers, woodcocks, hunting people (chow or spitz, can't remember which but it is a Chinese dog), black-and-tan coon dogs, bloodhounds, wolfhounds, sled dogs and horse companion dogs (dalmations, formerly called "coach dogs" that kept the horses company in the fire station stables). Personally, I don't care much for lap dogs, but lots of people like them as part of the family. I even have one that came with the marriage and joined right in w/ my three goldens...some sort of black, curley, wire-haired, sawed-off terrier cross. I share my peach slices, bannana pieces and cornbread equally between them. I even work with people who special breed long-haired chiwawas (definitely mispelled)--probably not even knowing that the central Americans raised them for food. A dog is a man's (read human's) best friend. As early 20th century Philosopher Groucho Marx said "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." Those of you who don't understand that twist, you are not alone. My chiropractor didn't get it, but his receptionist did. Sparks - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:47:55 -0500 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C37B12.3CBC3160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, I know, badger hounds had to be fearless. My Dachshund was a good = little dog about 99% of the time and was afraid of nothing at all 100% = of the time....but she was one stupid little dog. Looked like a tiny, = short-legged Rotweiler and had a similar personality. Being fearless = and all, she wouldn't take any crap from anybody or anything. One of my = fondest memories of that little knot-head was the sight of her (at about = 7 weeks old) clamping down on an ear and hanging on to my 75 lb = oversized Boxer who was bullying her and making him howl like a broke = d.... er, well, you how he howled. They got along famously after that = little incident. There are lots of stories about my dogs but they are = best told across a campfire with a jug of a strong adult beverage being = passed. Lanney ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James and Sue Stone=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 10:20 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel Now Now Lanney, Let's not be too hard on the Dachshunds. After all, they were bred as = 'badger dogs.' For a dog to go headlong into a badger hole after the = critter he HAS to have those two traits...fearless and stupid always = served him well! Sparks Lanney Ratcliff wrote: Mrs. Jones is right about all the Cocker Spaniels that I ever met. = More stupid even than Dachshunds and that's saying something. (Wienie dogs aren't afraid of a damn thing but their chew toys are smarter than they are.) Plus, the nastiest dog bite I ever knew about was a Cocker = Spaniel biting the toddler child of the dog's owner, ripping up the child's face = in the process. According to the owner, the damn dog simply snapped and jumped the baby.....right in the living room in front of everybody. He should have shot it the day the rabies observation period was up. Lanney - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "James and Sue Stone" To: Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 2:16 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel Cockers were originally from the same stock as Water Spaniels = according to an English Water Spaniel Club website. Cockers were originally developed as a hunting breed specifically for Woodcocks...thus the name 'cocker. Later, cockers were bred to be stupid, small and pretty for lap dog perfection.* It is apparent in golden retrievers that almost two distinct breeds are present. The "show dog" seems, large, blond, long-haired and not necessarily bright. Hunting/field trial stock goldens are small framed (to have better bone/muscle mass ratio for longer endurance), smart, shorter haired, really really fast, , with good noses and "mark" well ("mark" being the skill of watching a bird fall and retrieving it, rather than putting territorial "markers" in the living room). *According to Mrs. Stone, eminent historian and knitter. Sparks and Mrs Stone busterize wrote: Dale, Water Spaniels are larger than cockers, and bred for = retrieving from the water. They were popular in England with those hunters shooting = wild fowl. Don't know when they originated, but wonder if cockers were even considered a "breed" at the time. Many of the smaller breeds were created for the convenience of ladies wanting a smaller "lap" dog. For instance, my ACD weighs 24 pounds, whereas the average ACD can weigh anywhere from 30 to 40 lbs. Both her mom & pap were on the small side and each litter = produced by that bitch were small. Geri - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html =20 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html =20 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C37B12.3CBC3160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yeah, I know, = badger hounds had to=20 be fearless.  My Dachshund was a good little dog about 99% of = the time=20 and was afraid of nothing at all 100% of the time....but she was one = stupid=20 little dog.  Looked like a tiny, short-legged Rotweiler and had a = similar=20 personality.   Being fearless and all, she wouldn't take any = crap from=20 anybody or anything.  One of my fondest memories of that little = knot-head=20 was the sight of her (at about 7 weeks old) clamping down on an=20 ear and hanging on to my 75 lb oversized Boxer who was = bullying=20 her and making him howl like a broke d.... er, well, you how = he=20 howled.  They got along famously after that little incident.  = There=20 are lots of stories about my dogs but they are best told across a = campfire with=20 a jug of a strong adult beverage being passed.
Lanney
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 James=20 and Sue Stone
Sent: Sunday, September 14, = 2003 10:20=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water=20 Spaniel

Now Now Lanney,
Let's not be too hard on the = Dachshunds.=20  After all, they were bred as 'badger dogs.'  For a dog to = go=20 headlong into a badger hole after the critter he HAS to have those two = traits...fearless and stupid always served him = well!
Sparks

Lanney=20 Ratcliff wrote:
Mrs. Jones is right about all the Cocker =
Spaniels that I  ever met.  More
stupid even than Dachshunds and that's saying something.  (Wienie dogs
aren't afraid of a damn thing but their chew toys are smarter than they
are.)   Plus, the nastiest dog bite I ever knew about was a Cocker =
Spaniel
biting the toddler child of the dog's owner, ripping up the child's face =
in
the process.   According to the owner, the damn dog simply snapped and
jumped the baby.....right in the living room in front of everybody.   He
should have shot it the day the rabies observation period was up.
Lanney

- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: "James and Sue Stone" <jandsstone@earthlink.net>=

To: <hist_text@lists.xmission=
.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Spaniel


  
Cockers were originally =
from the same stock as Water Spaniels according
to an English Water Spaniel Club website.   Cockers were originally
developed as a hunting breed specifically for Woodcocks...thus the name
'cocker.   Later, cockers were bred to be stupid, small and pretty for
lap dog perfection.*

It is apparent in golden retrievers that almost two distinct breeds are
present.  The "show dog" seems, large, blond, long-haired and not
necessarily bright.  Hunting/field trial stock goldens are small framed
(to have better bone/muscle mass ratio for longer endurance), smart,
shorter haired, really really fast, , with good noses and "mark" well
("mark" being the skill of watching a bird fall and retrieving it,
rather than putting territorial "markers" in the living room).

*According to Mrs. Stone, eminent historian and knitter.

Sparks and Mrs Stone

busterize wrote:

    
Dale, Water Spaniels are =
larger than cockers, and bred for retrieving
      
from
  
the water. They were =
popular in England with those hunters shooting wild
fowl.

Don't know when they originated, but wonder if cockers were even
      
considered
  
a "breed" at the time. =
Many of the smaller breeds were created for the
convenience of ladies wanting a smaller "lap" dog. For instance, my ACD
weighs 24 pounds, whereas the average ACD can weigh anywhere from 30 to
      
40
  
lbs. Both her mom & =
pap were on the small side and each litter produced
      
by
  
that bitch were small.

Geri



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