From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1328 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Monday, March 8 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1328 In this issue: -       MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks -       Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks -       Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks -       Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks -       Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks -       Re: Fw: MtMan-List: MIller Paintings -       Re: MtMan-List: Firearm for Bear/Mountain Lion Protection -       Re: MtMan-List: Firearm for Bear/Mountain Lion Protection -       MtMan-List: grizzly book -       Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died -       Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died -       Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died -       Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died -       MtMan-List: tobacco ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:33:56 -0600 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C401CB.D0EB31C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Magpie, that was some terrifying story about your friend being = jumped by a grizz. Have you ever read the book "Grizzly Country" by Andy Russell? It = is an accounting of modern griz attacks in Alaska. Fascinating and, no pun intended, very grizzly in description of the = after effects of humans being mauled by the critters. One story from the book describes a very old bear that had long been = a problem. When it is finally killed and skinned many bullets are = retreived from its hide, muscles and bones indicating that it was a = tough one to bring down. Frank - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C401CB.D0EB31C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Magpie, that was some terrifying story about = your friend=20 being jumped by a grizz.
    Have you ever read the book "Grizzly Country" by = Andy=20 Russell?  It is an accounting of modern griz attacks in = Alaska.
    Fascinating and, no pun intended, very grizzly = in=20 description of the after effects of humans being mauled by the = critters.
    One story from the book describes a very old = bear that=20 had long been a problem. When it is finally killed and skinned many = bullets are=20 retreived from its hide, muscles and bones indicating that it was a = tough one to=20 bring down.
Frank
- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C401CB.D0EB31C0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:14:42 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks - --part1_ce.47662ef1.2d78be02_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/4/04 7:36:09 AM, Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com writes: >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 Have you ever read the book "Grizzly Country" by Andy Russell?= =A0 It is=20 > an accounting of modern griz attacks in Alaska. >=20 I think I read "Grizzly Country" quite some time ago.... In one of the books= =20 there is the story of my friend Cappy (Capistrano was his last name) that go= t=20 killed. We're not sure exactly what happened, because only the hunter surviv= ed=20 (Cappy was the guide)... and some things just don't add up. I was a pilot for a few outfitters/guides in Alaska from about 1969 to 1974=20 or so, (even flew cover out of Barrow the last year Polar Bear hunting was=20 allowed...but that's a different story.) and lived in Alaska for more than 2= 0=20 years. I've got some more good bear stories, but they're better told after a= few=20 drinks over a camp fire... Magpie =20 - --part1_ce.47662ef1.2d78be02_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 3/4/04 7:36:09 AM, Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com writes:<= BR>

=A0=A0=A0 Have you ever read the book "Grizzly Country" by Andy Russell?= =A0 It is an accounting of modern griz attacks in Alaska.

I think I read "Grizzly Country" quite some time ago.... In one of the books= there is the story of my friend Cappy (Capistrano was his last name) that g= ot killed. We're not sure exactly what happened, because only the hunter sur= vived (Cappy was the guide)... and some things just don't add up.

I was a pilot for a few outfitters/guides in Alaska from about 1969 to 1974=20= or so, (even flew cover out of Barrow the last year Polar Bear hunting was a= llowed...but that's a different story.) and lived in Alaska for more than 20= years. I've got some more good bear stories, but they're better told after=20= a few drinks over a camp fire...<G>

Magpie 
- --part1_ce.47662ef1.2d78be02_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:54:28 EST From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks - -------------------------------1078422868 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Magpie How is the book coming? Tails Of A Bush Pilot? Roadkill - -------------------------------1078422868 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Magpie How is the book coming? Tails Of A Bush Pilot?
Roadkill
- -------------------------------1078422868-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:57:34 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks - --part1_35.443f24c1.2d78c80e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/4/04 9:55:32 AM, MarkLoader@aol.com writes: > > Magpie How is the book coming? Tails Of A Bush Pilot? > > Roadkill > > Haaaaaaaa......!! I passed on the book deal because half way through some of my best stories you boys fell asleep! Magpie - --part1_35.443f24c1.2d78c80e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 3/4/04 9:55:32 AM, MarkLoader@aol.com writes:



Magpie How is the book coming? Tails Of A Bush Pilot?

Roadkill


Haaaaaaaa......!!  I passed on the book deal because half way through=20= some of my best stories you boys fell asleep! <G>

Magpie - --part1_35.443f24c1.2d78c80e_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:08:54 EST From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: firearm for bear/mountain lion attacks - -------------------------------1078423734 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Magpie Have few drinks and start writing. Weren't asleep just listen better with my eyes closed. Could not have been too asleep finding them tire track on the pavement to get us home not once but twice. Your true tales should be written down no joke. Charley Norton's wife was serious. Roadkill - -------------------------------1078423734 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Magpie Have few drinks and start writing.
Weren't asleep just listen better with my eyes closed.
Could not have been too asleep finding them tire track on the pavement=20= to get us home not once but twice. Your true tales should be written down no= joke. Charley Norton's wife was serious.
 
Roadkill
- -------------------------------1078423734-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:12:33 GMT From: trampas4@juno.com Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: MIller Paintings A Follow up on tents in Millers works... Lanney, If you have the book "The West of Alfred Jacob Miller" look on page 197. The painting is called "Catching Up" In the left is Provost's tent. It looks so much different than any others in his drawings, pyramid? In the book "Artist on the Oregon Trail" plate # 29 in is called "Attrapez des Chevaux" the tent has the same look. Also in that book plate #37, "Our Camp" look behind the cart. I have been trying to find the histiry of the pyramid tent, so far not much luck. The web site for Tentsmiths mentions the Britsh wanted to use such a type some years early, but thats all I found so far. Like some feed back, I am sure this will stir the kettle! Bill Gantic, Baker Party - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:23:28 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan Boyer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Firearm for Bear/Mountain Lion Protection - --0-704676870-1078435408=:89985 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For information on original tradeguns see: http://sittingfoxagency.com/success/part1.html Nate - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:45 AMSubject: Re: MtMan-List: Firearm for Bear/Mountain Lion Protection Thanks to all on the list that have contributed to the firearm suggestion, both fur trade era and modern, for use as protection from bear and mountainlion protection. I appreciate the collective wisdom. If we constrainourselves to the period correct blackpowder suggestions, it seems like thereis some consensus that the trade gun would be the appropriate choice loadedwith "buck and ball". Some have suggested (Crazy Cyot) a 12 gauge trade gunin percussion. A few more questions if you can tolerate the novice? If not I will understand: Are trade guns by definition smoothbore? And if so does that mean that you can shoot both round ball or buck shot (shotgun shot) in these? Arethey flintlock only? When we say "buck and ball" does that mean that you are actually loading both round ball and buckshot at the same time? For the bear/lion protection use that I have as a premise for this discussion, was the trade gun recommended over a large bore rifle because a"buck and ball" load will has a wider spread or effective range(I know thisis not the right term, but hopefully you get the point)? Finally, any suggestions on who offers trade guns that fit this bill. I had one suggestion for a custom trade gun (is that the same as a fusil?)maker Danny Caywood? Any other good trade guns manufacturer? Thanks for your patience with me.Lou----------------------hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ----------------------hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. - --0-704676870-1078435408=:89985 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii 
For information on original tradeguns see: http://sittingfoxagency.com/success/part1.html
Nate
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <MunevarL@aol.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Firearm for Bear/Mountain Lion Protection


  
Thanks to all on the list that have contributed to the firearm suggestion,
    
both fur trade era and modern, for use as protection from bear and mountain
lion protection.  I appreciate the collective wisdom.  If we constrain
ourselves to the period correct blackpowder suggestions, it seems like there
is some consensus that the trade gun would be the appropriate choice loaded
with "buck and ball".  Some have suggested (Crazy Cyot) a 12 gauge trade gun
in percussion.
  
A few more questions if you can tolerate the novice?  If not I will
    
understand:
  
Are trade guns by definition smoothbore?  And if so does that mean that
    
you can shoot both round ball or buck shot (shotgun shot) in these?  Are
they flintlock only?
  
When we say "buck and ball" does that mean that you are actually loading
    
both round ball and buckshot at the same time?
  
For the bear/lion protection use that I have as a premise for this
    
discussion, was the trade gun recommended over a large bore rifle because a
"buck and ball" load will has a wider spread or effective range(I know this
is not the right term, but hopefully you get the point)?
  
Finally, any suggestions on who offers trade guns that fit this bill.  I
    
had one suggestion for a custom trade gun (is that the same as a fusil?)
maker Danny Caywood?  Any other good trade guns manufacturer?
  
Thanks for your patience with me.

Lou

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. - --0-704676870-1078435408=:89985-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:32:57 -0500 From: MunevarL@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Firearm for Bear/Mountain Lion Protection Nate, I'll take a read of that one. Thanks for the reference. Lou - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:34:32 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Teter Subject: MtMan-List: grizzly book - --0-1566206690-1078439672=:23278 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Modern books are great for learning about the animal, but Fred Gowans' book Mountain Man & Grizzly is the best one for people who like this site. Mr. Gowans compiled almost every recorded instance of grizzly encounters known, from Lewis & Clark to late era mountaineers. Good stuff. Just thought I'd mention it since this subject has generated so much interest. Lee - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. - --0-1566206690-1078439672=:23278 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Modern books are great for learning about the animal, but Fred Gowans' book Mountain Man & Grizzly is the best one for people who like this site. Mr. Gowans compiled almost every recorded instance of grizzly encounters known, from Lewis & Clark to late era mountaineers. Good stuff. Just thought I'd mention it since this subject has generated so much interest.
 
Lee

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. - --0-1566206690-1078439672=:23278-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:35:57 -0700 From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died - --------------060401000205010606000502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Like you, I'd appreciate seeing further documentation. But seeing as how those guys spent their days getting in and out of the water without waterproof waders, it could be. Expecially if you incoude near drownings that resulted in death by hypothermia. Sparks beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > I'd like to read that info too cause I'm having a hard time believing >that more guys died by drowning then indian attacks. Maybe an indian >wrote that report! > bb > > > >>Crazy >>Please do a little mental digging or maybe someone else can tell me where >>I could get the info on drowning. I am working on an article for the T&LR >>that would be well supported by the information that you are suggesting is >>there. >> >>Thank You >>Wynn >> >> >> >> > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > - --------------060401000205010606000502 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Like you, I'd appreciate seeing further documentation.  But seeing as how those guys spent their days getting in and out of the water without waterproof waders, it could be.  Expecially if you incoude near drownings that resulted in death by hypothermia.
Sparks

beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:
   I'd like to read that info too cause I'm having a hard time believing
that more guys died by drowning then indian attacks. Maybe an indian
wrote that report!
         bb

  
Crazy
Please do a little mental digging or maybe someone else can tell me where
I could get the info on drowning.  I am working on an article for the T&LR
that would be well supported by the information that you are suggesting is
there.

Thank You
Wynn


    


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- --------------060401000205010606000502-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:28:55 -0800 From: "RICK TABOR" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died A HBC study I read years ago stated that the leading cause of death among the French Canadian voyagers was infact drowning. However, number 2 was death by incarcerated hernia. That was why they wore the sashes, as a truss. Just something to ponder on. Rick _________________________________________________________________ Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar – includes FREE pop-up blocking! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:41:09 -0700 From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died Makes sense to me, especially in light of canoe travel across the great lakes in the Spring and Fall. Number 2 cause also makes sense in all the stuff they were packing in addition to the canoe portages. Sparks RICK TABOR wrote: > A HBC study I read years ago stated that the leading cause of death > among the French Canadian voyagers was infact drowning. However, > number 2 was death by incarcerated hernia. That was why they wore the > sashes, as a truss. Just something to ponder on. > Rick > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar – includes FREE pop-up > blocking! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:36:44 -0700 (MST) From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ways Mtn Men died Voyagers yes, I could see that. But Voyagers and Mountain Men are two different vocations. Didn't they even prefer voyagers that couldn't swim as they would not abandon ship? Whole familes of Cree Indians have drowned at a time in the big water of the north but again, that is the northeast not the arid west. Voyagers were not dealing with the deadlier plains tribes either. I know the leading cause of death for Mountain Men certainly could be drownings I just can't remember reading about that many drownings. But like I said earlier, maybe I just remember the indian battle deaths more as they are dramatic. They would have probably all died of tobacco had they lived long enough. bb > A HBC study I read years ago stated that the leading cause of death among > the French Canadian voyagers was infact drowning. However, number 2 was > death by incarcerated hernia. That was why they wore the sashes, as a > truss. > Just something to ponder on. > Rick > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar – includes FREE pop-up blocking! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:16:37 -0600 From: "Monte Holder" Subject: MtMan-List: tobacco This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_02C2_01C40507.348221B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If any of you pipe smokers out there was out of tobacco and you wanted = some to take with you on your next adventure, what kind would you likely = pick up. Feel free to email me off list if necessary. I was just = curious as to appropriate kinds of smoke makin's Monte Holder Saline County MO - ------=_NextPart_000_02C2_01C40507.348221B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If any of you pipe smokers out there was out of tobacco and you = wanted some=20 to take with you on your next adventure, what kind would you likely pick = up.  Feel free to email me off list if necessary.  I was just = curious=20 as to appropriate kinds of smoke makin's
 
Monte Holder
Saline County MO
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