From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1376 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, July 15 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1376 In this issue: -       RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition -       RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition -       RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibitio n -       RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition -       RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition -       Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition -       Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition -       RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition -       Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 17:42:16 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Todd, Is it appropriate to suggest the possible violation of copyright on this forum? The first question should have been: is the material copyrighted or public domain? SnakeOyl... At 04:41 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: >Jerry, > >Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I >could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would be >good to meet you. > >Thanks > >Todd Glover > >-- "Jerry Bell" wrote: >I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be the >last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The chapter >is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > >Jerry > >PS. I live and work in Murray > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of tetontodd@juno.com >Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > >Jerry, > >YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will copy >and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and live >in Riverton. >Thanks! > >Todd > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:08:00 -0600 From: "Jerry Bell" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Your replay and question is well taken. The primary reason I suggested copying the document is that the University of Utah Museum of Natural History, where I got the copy, suggested I copy that chapter since it is = no longer in print. Let me know what you think. I do not want to = knowingly violate the law. Jerry - -----Original Message----- From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Kramer Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:42 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick = Exhibition Todd, Is it appropriate to suggest the possible violation of copyright on this = forum? The first question should have been: is the material copyrighted or = public=20 domain? SnakeOyl... At 04:41 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: >Jerry, > >Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I = >could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would = be=20 >good to meet you. > >Thanks > >Todd Glover > >-- "Jerry Bell" wrote: >I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be = the >last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The = chapter >is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > >Jerry > >PS. I live and work in Murray > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of = tetontodd@juno.com >Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick = Exhibition > > >Jerry, > >YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will copy >and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and live >in Riverton. >Thanks! > >Todd > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:43:04 -0700 From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibitio n There is a general principle of "fair use" that permits limited copying for non-commercial purposes, with no intent of personal profit (particularly when out of print). I'm no lawyer though. Pat Quilter. - -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Bell [mailto:jrbell@smartfella.com] Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 8:08 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Your replay and question is well taken. The primary reason I suggested copying the document is that the University of Utah Museum of Natural History, where I got the copy, suggested I copy that chapter since it is no longer in print. Let me know what you think. I do not want to knowingly violate the law. Jerry - -----Original Message----- From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Kramer Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:42 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Todd, Is it appropriate to suggest the possible violation of copyright on this forum? The first question should have been: is the material copyrighted or public domain? SnakeOyl... At 04:41 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: >Jerry, > >Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I >could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would be >good to meet you. > >Thanks > >Todd Glover > >-- "Jerry Bell" wrote: >I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be the >last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The chapter >is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > >Jerry > >PS. I live and work in Murray > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of tetontodd@juno.com >Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > >Jerry, > >YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will copy >and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and live >in Riverton. >Thanks! > >Todd > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 23:03:57 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Jerry, Todd, etal, I do not possess a copy of MMM, hence I do not know the date of copyright. I do know that copying out of print books is common. I also know that just because a book is out of print the copyright is not void or abandoned. Authors, heirs, publishers and/or other owners of copyrights do have legal enforceable rights that last for a great many years. Many will grant permission to copy on request, at least as many will not. There is a doctrine of fair use where short sections can be copied for reviews and quotations with attribution, to copy 50 pages goes way beyond any consideration envisioned by this doctrine. Some libraries and universities have treated copyright with a rather cavalier attitude, some to their everlasting regret. Just as some who copy music and movies have come to regret their actions. It is taking that which someone else owns without compensation or permission. I am aware of some libraries & museums that jealously guard single copy publications of great antiquity, though copyright may have expired or never been recorded, nonetheless they feel they have an exclusive and proprietary interest in the work and would be very disturbed to learn of photocopies existing outside of their care, custody and control. For many these are very touchy issues that keep lawyers living well. Primarily it is a moral question we must each answer for our self. Are we entitled to the information regardless? In any case it seems we should be especially mindful when discussing such actions in a public forum. SnakeOyl... At 10:08 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: >Your replay and question is well taken. The primary reason I suggested >copying the document is that the University of Utah Museum of Natural >History, where I got the copy, suggested I copy that chapter since it is no >longer in print. Let me know what you think. I do not want to knowingly >violate the law. > >Jerry > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Kramer >Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:42 PM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > >Todd, > >Is it appropriate to suggest the possible violation of copyright on this >forum? > >The first question should have been: is the material copyrighted or public >domain? > >SnakeOyl... > > > > >At 04:41 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: > > >Jerry, > > > >Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I > >could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would be > >good to meet you. > > > >Thanks > > > >Todd Glover > > > >-- "Jerry Bell" wrote: > >I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be the > >last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The chapter > >is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > > > >Jerry > > > >PS. I live and work in Murray > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of tetontodd@juno.com > >Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM > >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > > > > >Jerry, > > > >YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will >copy > >and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and >live > >in Riverton. > >Thanks! > > > >Todd > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 22:46:25 -0600 From: "tom" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Who cares John? It's just a little personal research for one's own info. Tom AMM#1834 > [Original Message] > From: John Kramer > To: > Date: 7/12/2004 10:03:55 PM > Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > Jerry, Todd, etal, > > I do not possess a copy of MMM, hence I do not know the date of copyright. > > I do know that copying out of print books is common. I also know that just > because a book is out of print the copyright is not void or > abandoned. Authors, heirs, publishers and/or other owners of copyrights do > have legal enforceable rights that last for a great many years. Many will > grant permission to copy on request, at least as many will not. > > There is a doctrine of fair use where short sections can be copied for > reviews and quotations with attribution, to copy 50 pages goes way beyond > any consideration envisioned by this doctrine. > > Some libraries and universities have treated copyright with a rather > cavalier attitude, some to their everlasting regret. Just as some who copy > music and movies have come to regret their actions. It is taking that > which someone else owns without compensation or permission. > > I am aware of some libraries & museums that jealously guard single copy > publications of great antiquity, though copyright may have expired or never > been recorded, nonetheless they feel they have an exclusive and proprietary > interest in the work and would be very disturbed to learn of photocopies > existing outside of their care, custody and control. For many these are > very touchy issues that keep lawyers living well. > > Primarily it is a moral question we must each answer for our self. Are we > entitled to the information regardless? > > In any case it seems we should be especially mindful when discussing such > actions in a public forum. > > SnakeOyl... > > > > > At 10:08 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: > >Your replay and question is well taken. The primary reason I suggested > >copying the document is that the University of Utah Museum of Natural > >History, where I got the copy, suggested I copy that chapter since it is no > >longer in print. Let me know what you think. I do not want to knowingly > >violate the law. > > > >Jerry > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Kramer > >Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:42 PM > >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > > >Todd, > > > >Is it appropriate to suggest the possible violation of copyright on this > >forum? > > > >The first question should have been: is the material copyrighted or public > >domain? > > > >SnakeOyl... > > > > > > > > > >At 04:41 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: > > > > >Jerry, > > > > > >Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I > > >could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would be > > >good to meet you. > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > >Todd Glover > > > > > >-- "Jerry Bell" wrote: > > >I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be the > > >last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The chapter > > >is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > > > > > >Jerry > > > > > >PS. I live and work in Murray > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of tetontodd@juno.com > > >Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM > > >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > > > > > > > >Jerry, > > > > > >YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will > >copy > > >and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and > >live > > >in Riverton. > > >Thanks! > > > > > >Todd > > > > > > > > >---------------------- > > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > >---------------------- > > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > >---------------------- > > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 00:50:22 EDT From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition - -------------------------------1089694222 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Th copyright for "Man Made Mobile" is 1980. The copyright lasts for the life of the author, plus 70 years. "Fair Use" is a privilege that allows people other than the owner of the copyright to use the copyrighted material in a reasonable manner without his consent. The reasonableness of a use is determined on a case-by-case basis applying an equitable rule of reason analysis. There are four factors in determining whether the use was a "fair use": 1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; 2) the nature of the copyrighted work; 3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and 4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. Since "Man Made Mobile" is a 147 page book, copying 50 pages, even for personal use might not meet the definintion above. Since this is a Smithsonian publication, why not write them and ask permission to use the chapter you want in the manner you describe? Jim Hardee, AMM#1676 - -------------------------------1089694222 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Th copyright for "Man Made Mobile" is 1980. The copyright lasts for the= life of the author, plus 70 years.
 
 "Fair Use" is a privilege that allows people other than the=20= owner of the copyright to use the copyrighted material in a reasonable manne= r without his consent. The reasonableness of a use is determined on a case-b= y-case basis applying an equitable rule of reason analysis. There are four f= actors in determining whether the use was a "fair use": 1) the purpose and c= haracter of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or= is for nonprofit educational purposes; 2) the nature of the copyrighted wor= k; 3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the c= opyrighted work as a whole; and 4) the effect of the use upon the potential=20= market for or value of the copyrighted work.
 
Since "Man Made Mobile" is a 147 page book, copying 50 pages, even= for personal use might not meet the definintion above. Since this is a= Smithsonian publication, why not write them and ask permission to use the c= hapter you want in the manner you describe?
 
Jim Hardee, AMM#1676
- -------------------------------1089694222-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 07:31:41 -0600 From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Todd, I have an original copy of MMM that the Author gave me. Ole On Monday, July 12, 2004, at 03:41 PM, tetontodd@juno.com wrote: > > Jerry, > > Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If > I could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it > would be good to meet you. > > Thanks > > Todd Glover > > -- "Jerry Bell" wrote: > I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be > the > last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The > chapter > is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > > Jerry > > PS. I live and work in Murray > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of > tetontodd@juno.com > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick > Exhibition > > > Jerry, > > YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I > will copy > and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper > and live > in Riverton. > Thanks! > > Todd > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:37:13 GMT From: "tetontodd@juno.com" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition John, Point taken. I believe what Jerry has is a copy of a paper on the Renwick collection which he stated was "basically a chapter from the book. Since he obtained a copy from the museum, I see no reason to worry about copyrights. The author of the paper offered to send me a copy also. Good reminder on copyrights though... Teton - -- John Kramer wrote: Todd, Is it appropriate to suggest the possible violation of copyright on this forum? The first question should have been: is the material copyrighted or public domain? SnakeOyl... At 04:41 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: >Jerry, > >Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I >could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would be >good to meet you. > >Thanks > >Todd Glover > >-- "Jerry Bell" wrote: >I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be the >last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The chapter >is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > >Jerry > >PS. I live and work in Murray > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of tetontodd@juno.com >Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > >Jerry, > >YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will copy >and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and live >in Riverton. >Thanks! > >Todd > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:08:54 -0600 From: "Ben" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages Hello the camp, Speaking about websites.... I need some help. In a novel I'm writing there is a scene at Fort Laramie. In trying to re-create the visual aspects of the fort I've done some searching on the internet. I've found conflicting descriptions. http://www.nps.gov/fola/laramie.htm describes it as never having a wall around it, as always being an open fort depending on its location and garrison of soldiers for protection. However another site http://www.historyglobe.com/ot/ftlaramie.htm shows a picture by Alfred J. Miller drawn in 1858 that shows a stockade around the fort ..... but the mountains in the background don't look like what I remember around Fort Laramie. In other sites I've found that it was first created in 1831 by William Sublette for trading with the Indians for buffalo robes and was made of wood poles (like the forts the movies show). Then it was sold the the American Fur Company and they rebuilt it using adobe for the walls. In 1849 the Army bought it and had planned a nine foot wall around it but apparently it never was built because of cost. I'd guess the Army tore down the walls that had been built and built what we see today..... but that picture by Miller drawn in 1858 has got me puzzled. Anyone out there that can shed a little light on this situation. Thanks in advance. Ben - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wynn Ormond" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 10:08 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages > Add a couple more I thought of > > SW Traders by the Jim Baker Party of the AMM. > > http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html > > As a matter of fact, it is my belief that fur trade history sets a pretty > high standard as internet subjects go. A ton of free quality information. > I have lost bookmarks not to long ago and don't have the one to Angela > Gottfred's Northwest, Canadian voyager type site but it is another one that > you really need to check out. Her husband does a remarkable job teaching > skills via internet. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gene Hickman" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 6:29 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages > > > > Crazy Coyote: > > http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm > > > > Poison River Party: > > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/MainCamp.html > > > > Women of the Fur Trade: > > http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/index.htm > > > > Tetonia: > > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > > > > List of Pre-1840's Groups: > > http://www.living-history.net/CR1840GROUPS.HTM#Utah > > > > As Always, > > Your Obedient Servant, > > > > Gene Hickman > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 4:01 PM > > Subject: MtMan-List: Good Webpages > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > Do any of you know some good webpages for the beginner buckskinner or > > > old salt. And also, does anyone have a webpage listing rendezvous dates > > > and places? I need some good sources. > > > What is Crazy's web page? I forgot and it and the Women of the fur > > > trade are two good webpages. Does anyone know them? > > > Any help on these webpages is greatly appreciated. > > > Thanks in advance. > > > bb > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1376 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.