From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #217 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, January 12 1999 Volume 01 : Number 217 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:28:05 -0800 From: "Sidney Porter" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: staying warm I'll bet she loved this one! >On really cold nights, I plug into my wife, she's 240 volt >forget the rocks >Joe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:35:34 -0800 From: "Sidney Porter" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder If we just had some lodge pole pine here in central Texas... sigh. - -----Original Message----- From: Frank To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 9:44 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder >Hummm, > >I'll bet them cottonwoods are bigger than a California redwood! >Bein' Texas an' all... :o) > >Medicine Bear > >Ted A Hart wrote: > >> Hell yes we have trees in Texas! :) I live in Austin and there are alot >> of cottonwoods, mesquite, oaks around here...you'll even find willow >> trees near creeks and the like. Out west Texas you'll run into what's >> more typically considered Texas...the LLano Estacado..the Staked >> Plains...more western...you'll run into Marfa (where the so-called lights >> float) where it's more like a desert with mountains...almost like Santa >> Fe...out in East Texas it's alot of hills and pine trees with an >> occassional oak tree...down south Texas it's more mesquite and scrubby >> trees...alot more shorter than it is else where. We have everything that >> USA has to offer although I think we need to work on our mountains :) >> Need to make 'em bigger! >> >> Ted >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:28:04 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: MtMan-List: decaturdan@juno.com (daniel j anderson): snow(hide tanning) got this note from danial anderson---he is in who's who in buckskins and also an member of the AMM with a number less than 100---a very special person to me as well as to others---I sent him a thing from the AMM chat and also from MlMl chat on hide tanning and here was his response--- "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com - --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: decaturdan@juno.com (daniel j anderson) To: hawknest4@juno.com hawk, we still have over a foot of snow and it is still drifting. The temperature above thirty degrees today,supposed to get freezing rain and snow tonight and tomorrow. daughter didn't get any snow and she is only 50 miles south of here. this is beginning to remind me of the time I spent in the high Artic,high winds and drifting snow. I have been thinking about that Mountain Man type guy who is into tanning hides, he has a lot of learning to do Hawk. Tell him that tanning hides is Squaw work.Them old trappers may have stretched a beaver plew with a willow hoop,and scraped a little fat and flesh off,but mostly they hunted and trapped and kept a couple of squaws warm at night. George Pochell [half wild]and I tanned 3 large Buffalo hides one time when we were young and didnt know no better. We decided to set the hair on the hides before we tanned them ,Well we had to get a chain hoist to lift them wet hides out of that tank, then I tanned them with acid worked real good , jhardest work I ever done softening and working those Buffalo hides.Steve used then in that big Tipi for over 15 years.They were mighty soft and warm to sleep on . When I was in Alaska the Eskimo women [squaws] {Kloochynews}used urine tu tan hides with ,then they would chew them to soften them. I bought some hides from some Eskimoes up near Kotezbu and had a Eskimo woman make a parka ,pants, boots ,mittens and a rain suit . The rain suit was made from walrus intestines. Then there is old trapper John Pharris , he is still living and he knows more about about trapping and tanning hides ,than most of the experts and historians. Keep those letters and jokes coming ,I may not get out of the house till spring. Dan ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:28:35 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder Last time I talked to him, he said he could whup any five Texicans! > Capt. , Did I say FIVE Texicans??? Well, that must be takin in account the cup a coffee in my left hand...Or mebby I was talkin' about my poor Sainted Grandma...Don't rightly remember... Dennis "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:57:36 EST From: tedhart@juno.com (Ted A Hart) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: decaturdan@juno.com (daniel j anderson): snow(hide tanning) Hi, I would like to ask your opinion on the usage of the word squaw. It is VERY offensive to Indian women....in fact it's an corruption of a French word. When Indian men were referring to women they didn't use the word squaw..they used "women" like in women's work not squaw work. IF you say that word to any Indian woman today they'll more than likely pick up a two-by-four and chase you down the highway and call in her relatives to get you as well :) Just my honest opinion. Ted ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:34:28 -0700 From: jbrandl@wyoming.com (Joe Brandl) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: decaturdan@juno.com (daniel j anderson): snow(hide tanning) I too do not like the term squaw, but............many journals of military officers in the 1800's use the term often. They also mention Indian men using the term. Joe Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440 Write for custom tanning prices We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and hair on robes Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:52:46 EST From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Squaws After reading this thread, I talked to a friend ( a Cherokee woman), and she was taught by her elders that a 'squaw' was essentially a prostitute, whether on the res or brought into rendezvous or traded among the men of the tribe(s). She was taught that the term is NOT NECESSARILY, derrogatory, as it may be truthful i.e. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck. Remember that many of these women (squaws) were proud of their profession and served their employers (pimps?) well. The point is, watch who you are using the term towards; as its basically the same as calling a woman today a 'ho'. 'Barney Fife' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:27:00 -0600 From: John Dearing Subject: MtMan-List: re: greatcoats > >I evidently picked the wrong word - the garment I was referring to was also > >called a watchcoat. > > >In case that still is wrong, I am looking for a long coat, with cape (or > >capes), but no hood as used by the gentry, stagecoach drivers, etc. > > >Any clues as to good patterns would be appreciated. > > What you are looking for is a pattern for a greatcoat. Try Rocking Horse Farms, couldn't find the address, or The book "Tidings of the Eighteenth Century" > by Beth Gilgun. I think there is a chapter on greatcoats with instructions on > making them. An alternative is to get a copy of Smoke and Fire news, again no > address, they have lots of ads for patterns for 18Th Cent cloathing. > J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:08:19 -0600 From: Don Neighbors Subject: MtMan-List: guns I was offered a 1827 Hoppers Farrey Flintlock rifle in good condition for $450.00 is this a goog buy? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:59:08 EST From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Citizenship Issues for Mountain Men Many of the mountain men in the southwest routinely changed their citizenship from American to Mexican. This was because it was illegal for non-citizens to hunt in the New Mexican territories. With the arrival of Kearny, this probably shifted. I know there were problems with the Spanish land grant system...many landholders lost their claims when the Yanks arrived (sorry, I'm English). I am trying to find out about the inheritance laws of the time: e.g., when Ceran St. Vrain died (and son Vincente), all his holdings and wealth went to his nephew, Benedict, an American citizen in St.Louis. Does anyone know anything about the land and inheritance laws of the 1850's to 18'70's, or at least know a resource? Thanks a bunch. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:18:18 -0600 From: Don Neighbors Subject: MtMan-List: guns I found an 1827 Harpers Ferry flintlock in good condition. What would be a good price for it? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:22:53 -0600 From: Don Neighbors Subject: MtMan-List: guns I donnot know if this is e-mailing or not? I have found an 1827 Harpers Ferry flintlock in good condition, what is it worth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:47:53 -0600 From: John Dearing Subject: MtMan-List: Re: greatcoat > > > >I evidently picked the wrong word - the garment I was referring to was also > >called a watchcoat. > > >Any clues as to good patterns would be appreciated. > I just happened on this URL, with references http://www.netins.net/showcase/nwta/couriers/11-96/watchcoats.html Ain't life grand when things like this happen. ;-) J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:37:08 EST From: Rkleinx2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Squaws In a message dated 1/12/99 12:56:56 PM, RR1LA@aol.com writes: <> Here we go again. My dictionary defines 'squaw' as.... "An American Indian woman; among Indians, any woman; a female." When I use the term thats what I mean and nothing else. I've read many pioneer emigrant diaries/journals and books written by decent people who used the word 'Squaw' . So I don't hesitate to use the term. ( The word is of Algonquian origin). Dick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:45:20 -0600 From: "Paul Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder Dennis, Dennis, Dennis. I am glad to have you as a friend as you are constant proof our good Lord has a sense of humor when it comes to how Yankees turn out. One of the whupped Texicans-Pablo - -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Miles To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:29 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder >Last time I talked to him, he said he could whup any five Texicans! >> > > >Capt. >, > Did I say FIVE Texicans??? Well, that must be takin in account the cup a >coffee in my left hand...Or mebby I was talkin' about my poor Sainted >Grandma...Don't rightly remember... > >Dennis > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:02:02 -0800 From: "Gail Carbiener" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Squaws Hey Dick: Did you ever think that you and I and your dictionary are to god damn old. If you use that word around my area you had better duck! :) Gail ============================ - -----Original Message----- From: Rkleinx2@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 3:41 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Squaws > >In a message dated 1/12/99 12:56:56 PM, RR1LA@aol.com writes: > ><whether >on the res or brought into rendezvous or traded among the men of the tribe(s). >She was taught that the term is NOT NECESSARILY, derrogatory, as it may be >truthful i.e. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a >duck, its a duck. Remember that many of these women (squaws) were proud of >their profession and served their employers (pimps?) well. The point is, >watch who you are using the term towards; as its basically the same as calling >a woman today a 'ho'. >> > >Here we go again. My dictionary defines 'squaw' as.... "An American Indian >woman; among Indians, any woman; a female." When I use the term thats what I >mean and nothing else. I've read many pioneer emigrant diaries/journals and >books written by decent people who used the word 'Squaw' . So I don't >hesitate to use the term. >( The word is of Algonquian origin). > Dick > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:16:23 -0800 From: "john c. funk,jr" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Squaws - -----Original Message----- From: Rkleinx2@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 4:41 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Squaws > >In a message dated 1/12/99 12:56:56 PM, RR1LA@aol.com writes: > ><whether >on the res or brought into rendezvous or traded among the men of the tribe(s). >She was taught that the term is NOT NECESSARILY, derrogatory, as it may be >truthful i.e. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a >duck, its a duck. Remember that many of these women (squaws) were proud of >their profession and served their employers (pimps?) well. The point is, >watch who you are using the term towards; as its basically the same as calling >a woman today a 'ho'. >> > >Here we go again. My dictionary defines 'squaw' as.... "An American Indian >woman; among Indians, any woman; a female." When I use the term thats what I >mean and nothing else. I've read many pioneer emigrant diaries/journals and >books written by decent people who used the word 'Squaw' . So I don't >hesitate to use the term. >( The word is of Algonquian origin). > Dick > > > Whether or not the term "squaw" was of Native American origin or not, it is still very offensive to some Native Americans is this day and age. John Funk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:15:37 -0800 From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Squaws This is evidently an area for personal preference, but just as "nigger" was a readily used term (as in Mark Twain), describing a matter-of-fact social situation and station of life, so was "squaw" (as far as I can tell), along with "Greaser", "Buck" and so forth. The fact that people freely made these distinctions 150 years ago, along with keeping slaves and shooting Indians on sight, doesn't make them acceptable today. If one's listeners are of the type who understand when a historical term is used without rancor, fine, but be prepared for a fight if we use these terms around racial groups who have achieved a higher standing in modern society. Just my Opinion. Pat Quilter. - -----Original Message----- From: RR1LA@aol.com [mailto:RR1LA@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 12:53 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Squaws After reading this thread, I talked to a friend ( a Cherokee woman), and she was taught by her elders that a 'squaw' was essentially a prostitute, whether on the res or brought into rendezvous or traded among the men of the tribe(s). She was taught that the term is NOT NECESSARILY, derrogatory, as it may be truthful i.e. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck. Remember that many of these women (squaws) were proud of their profession and served their employers (pimps?) well. The point is, watch who you are using the term towards; as its basically the same as calling a woman today a 'ho'. 'Barney Fife' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:25:54 -0600 From: Bishnow Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Boiling wild water Lanney Ratcliff wrote: > > > Water not otherwise contaminated that has been filtered through a clean 1 micron filter is free of virtually all bugs and since boiling will indeed kill living organisms, my opinion is that wild water can be made perfectly safe to drink with minimal effort. > Lanney Ratcliff Lanney, As you know I am in the food industry(Turkey). and the U.S.D.A. will tell you that 160 degrees fahrenhiet for 1 minute will kill any organism that may inhabit food. Snakeshot ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:25:20 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder - --------------05E852641E4B98788782E094 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis Miles wrote: > Capt. > , > Did I say FIVE Texicans??? Well, that must be takin in account the cup a > coffee in my left hand...Or mebby I was talkin' about my poor Sainted > Grandma...Don't rightly remember... Dennis, I sure thought you said FIVE but it was probably more. I do remember you saying you could do it with a cup of tea in one hand and a silk scarf in the other or was it your Sainted Granny you said could do it. Who knows for sure, you allus was taken to understatements. And as I remember you were in your cups so it was hard to understand what you were saying. Lay'in on your face like you was. I remain....... YMOS Capt. Lahti' > > - --------------05E852641E4B98788782E094 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Dennis Miles wrote:

Capt.
,
 Did I say FIVE Texicans??? Well, that must be takin in account the cup a
coffee in my left hand...Or mebby I was talkin' about my poor Sainted
Grandma...Don't rightly remember...<BG>
Dennis,

I sure thought you said FIVE but it was probably more. I do remember you saying you could do it with a cup of tea in one hand and a silk scarf in the other or was it your Sainted Granny you said could do it. Who knows for sure, you allus was taken to understatements. And as I remember you were in your cups so it was hard to understand what you were saying. Lay'in on your face like you was. <BG>I remain.......

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

 
 
  - --------------05E852641E4B98788782E094-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:44:16 EST From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Squaws Pat, Thanks for that perspective. How about some input from the members of this list that are of NATIVE descent? Would it not be important to consider the source when you consider definitions? My thinking in this regard it that I personally would consider the word of the native Americans before that of a dictionary that was most likely compiled, edited and published by European descendants. (and FYI, the word was not included in the 1828 Websters at all, but in the new M-W they say it was used DISPARAGINGLY as a term for a woman) RR alias Barney Fife ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:54:10 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Pickert Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Squaws I have read with interest this dicussion. I belive that historicly the term was used like (nigger) and not ment to cause harm but that today one should be very careful abut its use. I have a friend in TX that is half Navjo and she takes real offence to the term! - ---RR1LA@aol.com wrote: > > Pat, Thanks for that perspective. How about some input from the members of > this list that are of NATIVE descent? Would it not be important to consider > the source when you consider definitions? My thinking in this regard it that I > personally would consider the word of the native Americans before that of a > dictionary that was most likely compiled, edited and published by European > descendants. (and FYI, the word was not included in the 1828 Websters at all, > but in the new M-W they say it was used DISPARAGINGLY as a term for a woman) > RR alias Barney Fife > > > == Rick(Walks in the Night)Pickert _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:48:17 -0600 From: "yellow rose/pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder Yeah I was talking about the same Dennis. Now being of semi-sound mind, I got no hankerin to wad-up with Dennis but if'n him and Lanney was to go to it, I'd pay to watch. Pendleton - ---------- > From: Roger Lahti > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder > Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 10:35 PM > > Pendlton, > > You mean ol' Dennis Miles? Yea, he's our hired gun, mouth piece, Brigade > Lawyer! Last time I talked to him, he said he could whup any five Texicans! > I remain..... > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > yellow rose/pendleton wrote: > > > Damn Capt., you boys up north are getting nasty! ! ! Have you been hanging > > out with Dennis ? > > Pendleton > > > > ---------- > > > From: Roger Lahti > > > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder > > > Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 11:51 PM > > > > > > > Snakeshot wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes but when you burn our trees you have what is called > > > > coals left to cook over. When I was up north when the last > > > > whisp of smoke was gone so was the fire. In some places > > > > we can legaly shoot 5 deer a season, that makes up for the > > > > size.:) > > > > > > > > Snakeshot, > > > > > > Well we get coals from the trees we have up here too, but when the flames > > die down > > > I've known camp mates to cook on the same coals for the whole of week > > long > > > Rendezvous before they had to add wood. So you say you can shoot 5 of > > them deer > > > critters. Why son, that's just great. Kinda like ground sluicing a covey > > of quail > > > up here. Same amount of meat but what's the point? I remain..... > > > > > > YMOS > > > Capt. Lahti' > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:52:19 -0600 From: "yellow rose/pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder Pablo, You reckon it was his sense of humor or he just got a phone call while he was in the middle of creating them Yankees? Pendleton - ---------- > From: Paul Jones > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 5:45 PM > > Dennis, Dennis, Dennis. I am glad to have you as a friend as you are > constant proof our good Lord has a sense of humor when it comes to how > Yankees turn out. One of the whupped Texicans-Pablo > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Miles > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:29 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder > > > >Last time I talked to him, he said he could whup any five Texicans! > >> > > > > > >Capt. > >, > > Did I say FIVE Texicans??? Well, that must be takin in account the cup a > >coffee in my left hand...Or mebby I was talkin' about my poor Sainted > >Grandma...Don't rightly remember... > > > >Dennis > > > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > > Period Knives & Iron Accouterments > > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:36:04 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder Capt'n, I wasn't in my cups, the Earth had one of those "gravity fluxes" and I just lost my balance... Pendleton, my dear friend, Lanney and I discussed that in Mo. last year...Decided we would just join forces and whup up on someone smaller (approx 98% of the world population) as we was afeard of mebby bruisin one another....We are delicate floweres, y' know... D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 >Yeah I was talking about the same Dennis. Now being of semi-sound mind, I >got no hankerin to wad-up with Dennis but if'n him and Lanney was to go to >it, I'd pay to watch. >Pendleton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:20:29 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Squaws - -----Original Message----- From: RR1LA@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 1:56 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Squaws >After reading this thread, I talked to a friend ( a Cherokee woman), and she >was taught by her elders that a 'squaw' was essentially a prostitute, whether >on the res or brought into rendezvous or traded among the men of the tribe(s). >She was taught that the term is NOT NECESSARILY, derrogatory, as it may be >truthful i.e. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a >duck, its a duck. Remember that many of these women (squaws) were proud of >their profession and served their employers (pimps?) well. The point is, >watch who you are using the term towards; as its basically the same as calling >a woman today a 'ho'. 'Barney Fife' > _______________________________________________ This is interesting, what some of our members think or have been told by others on the word "squaw" ? Some are referring to a squaw as a "prostitute", others are not sure and are quoting the dictionary defining a 'squaw' as.... "An American Indian woman; among Indians, any woman; a female." Again very interesting, the same as the term "nigger", as a bad name called of the black race, with a little research you'll find these terms are later than you would think. For example: the term for one that works long hours, in hard conditions, for little to no pay and has no chance of making a better like was referred to as "working like a nigger" (color had nothing to do with it in pre-colonial dock locations), whether in Ireland, England, France or the New World, this was the term used by many countries, when referring to the poor laborer in controlled conditions. The Irish during the "Potatoe Wars" were referred to as, poor as niggers (poor as those working in the worst of conditions like coal miners, also referred to by this name). I was in my early thirties before I found out that my Grandmother was a half breed, a Lenni-Lenape. It was a family secret in Pennsylvania because of the feelings that Native American's were worthless, thieves and drunks living off the whites. This is an old story of many families living on the East coast, to protect these people, the subject was never brought up and in time the individual was considered just another white. In my case I always thought my Grandmother was Amish or Quaker, very quite and never talked about her family. After finding out about this, (my Grandmother was getting up in years and had moved from the farm to one of her son's places in Pennsylvania), I made a trip east from Colorado to carefully inquire about the unknown. Turns out that her mother was a "squaw", married to a member of the tribe - not by choice, as she was taken at a young age from Penn State, PA and moved to northeastern Ohio in and before late 1900. She was called a "squaw" because of her unrulely nature and not trying to be like the others, "being a women of the night" had nothing to do with anything in those days, she was just a white in a bad situtation and having trouble fitting in. I have read of similiar situtitations and the person was called or referred to as a "squaw", so I would think that in later years the term has changed as it was passed down or used by other groups, and of course Hollywood hasn't helped anything either. This is only one part of the story that I personally can relate to for the "term" used now and in earlier times, in one small location. I'm sure that in different area's the term "squaw' has another meaning to a person's family or friends. Look what we call the Mexicans and what they call the whites, different in Mexico than in Iowa, and again look what Hollywood has done with the name calling. Hope this helps a little for what is is worth, and by the way my Grandmother was not much help as she was only two when her mother escaped and walked some 600 miles in December back to her home carrying her to PA, the story is recorded at the State House in Harrisburg. The town people in Shippensburg had very little to do with either one as she was a "squaw with a half white daughter", figures !!! So much for my little knowledge on the subject. Buck Conner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:35:33 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder Paul & Dennis, When I moved to Colorado in 1964, everyone was complaining about "them damn eastern low life jurk's moving in", didn't set well being from PA. After about thirty years as a resident of Colorado and the Calf. and Texas boys were moving in (large numbers) the terms have changed, its now: "I rather have a sister workin' in a whore house than a neighbor from Calif. or Texas". So I can see how Old Dennis can stir the nest with the Texas boys. Good luck guys its all in fun, be cool Lanney. Buck ___________________________________ - -----Original Message----- From: Paul Jones To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 4:44 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder >Dennis, Dennis, Dennis. I am glad to have you as a friend as you are >constant proof our good Lord has a sense of humor when it comes to how >Yankees turn out. One of the whupped Texicans-Pablo >-----Original Message----- >From: Dennis Miles >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:29 AM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder > > >>Last time I talked to him, he said he could whup any five Texicans! >>> >> >> >>Capt. >>, >> Did I say FIVE Texicans??? Well, that must be takin in account the cup a >>coffee in my left hand...Or mebby I was talkin' about my poor Sainted >>Grandma...Don't rightly remember... >> >>Dennis >> >> "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" >> DOUBLE EDGE FORGE >> Period Knives & Iron Accouterments >> http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 >> >> >> > > ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #217 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.