From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #231 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, February 5 1999 Volume 01 : Number 231 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:29:22 EST From: GMECPA@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #230 Has anyone heard of a trapper WILLIAM HENRY GANTT in Roaring Fork Valley in Colorado ca. 1830's or 1840's? Lynne Gantt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:36:56 -0700 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: RE: MtMan-List: mtn.men, they never got lost, just mighty confuse d for a while Interesting question about compasses. My impression is that in the Canadian fur trade, 1774-1821, compasses were present but not common, and probably mostly used by "gentlemen", i.e. clerks, factors, and wintering partners (who were usually the explorers, e.g. David Thompson, Alexander Mackenzie, Simon Fraser, Peter Fidler). Here's some quotes: 1760, Alexander Henry the Elder: "...the snow...prevented us, at times, from discovering the land, and consequently (for compass we had none), from pursuing, with certainty, our course." (Bain ed., p. 9) 1797-1798, David Thompson, Mandan villages: "...none of the Men knew the use of the Compass, and did not like to trust it." (Thompson Narrative, 161) (Thompson was travelling with an ex-soldier and seven voyageurs.) 1805, F.-A. Larocque: "Went down to the American Fort [Fort Mandan] to get my compass put in order, the glass being broken and the needle not pointing north....Capt. Lewis fixed my compass very well, which took him a whole day." I have many stories about Canadian fur traders getting lost, but I'm sure there aren't any about Mountain Men, right guys? Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: 03 Feb 99 16:50:01 -0700 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: MtMan-List: Baking Soda My memory is gone. Didn't someone say to put a teaspoon of baking soda in linseed oil to nuetralize the acids before using oil to waterproof cloth? Or am I losing it? DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:37:38 -0800 From: Tom Roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Baking Soda Don't know about baking soda but I can tell you from recent experience with boiled linseed oil on canvas that unless you use a drying agent, it can take up to twelve days to reach a state where it is no longer tacky to the touch. Would love to find something to neutralize the odor. Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > My memory is gone. Didn't someone say to put a teaspoon of baking soda > in linseed oil to nuetralize the acids before using oil to waterproof > cloth? Or am I losing it? > > DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:44:42 -0800 From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #230 Lynne, there is a John Gantt listed in (has a whole chapter) Hafen's 'Trappers of the Far West" ; ISBN 0-8032-7218-9 . Hope this helps Hardtack ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 17:28:34 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Baking Soda Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > My memory is gone. Didn't someone say to put a teaspoon of baking soda > in linseed oil to nuetralize the acids before using oil to waterproof > cloth? Or am I losing it? Don, I've heard of doing that too but never found the need with "Boiled Linseed Oil". Won't hurt anything. As to the odor, I found that it worked better to thin with something like turpentine, etc. so I wasn't putting so much linseed oil in the cloth. Doesn't take that much oil, about 50%-50% is fine. I add a pound of bee's wax to a three lb coffee can about half full of linseed oil and a small tube of burnt umber oil paint to give a bit of color (which might take the place of the baking soda). Mix it hot over a stove with all due care and then thin with thinner off the stove outside. Place cloth on plastic and roll mix on with a paint roller. Uses just enough without the mess of trying to paint it on while hanging (which would work if you want to go to the trouble). I hang it in the sun and on windy warm days it will dry in about a week or so. I know, your not supposed to do it in the sun but I have not had any problems. You might turn it every few days. I remain...... YMOS Capt. Lahti' > > ------------------------------ Date: 03 Feb 99 21:07:25 -0700 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Baking Soda Roger - I thank you sir. Really helped. I just could not remember about adding baking soda or not, but will try it your way and see. Thanks. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants Roger Lahti wrote: > > >Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > >> My memory is gone. Didn't someone say to put a teaspoon of baking soda >> in linseed oil to nuetralize the acids before using oil to waterproof >> cloth? Or am I losing it? > >Don, > >I've heard of doing that too but never found the need with "Boiled Linseed >Oil". Won't hurt anything. As to the odor, I found that it worked better to >thin with something like turpentine, etc. so I wasn't putting so much >linseed oil in the cloth. Doesn't take that much oil, about 50%-50% is >fine. I add a pound of bee's wax to a three lb coffee can about half full >of linseed oil and a small tube of burnt umber oil paint to give a bit of >color (which might take the place of the baking soda). Mix it hot over a >stove with all due care and then thin with thinner off the stove outside. >Place cloth on plastic and roll mix on with a paint roller. Uses just >enough without the mess of trying to paint it on while hanging (which would >work if you want to go to the trouble). I hang it in the sun and on windy >warm days it will dry in about a week or so. I know, your not supposed to >do it in the sun but I have not had any problems. You might turn it every >few days. I remain...... > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > >> >> > > > > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with ESMTP > (SMTPD32-4.03) id A8B5AD014C; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:32:37 MDT >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 108Dck-0006U2-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:30:30 -0700 >Received: from [207.115.153.32] (helo=mail1.gte.net) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 108Dci-0006TP-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:30:28 -0700 >Received: from gte.net (1Cust242.tnt2.kennewick.wa.da.uu.net [208.252.45.242]) > by mail1.gte.net with ESMTP id TAA07611 > for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:31:18 -0600 (CST) >Message-ID: <36B8F7C2.4B95608B@gte.net> >Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 17:28:34 -0800 >From: Roger Lahti >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Baking Soda >References: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >X-UIDL: 915555607 >Status: U > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:58:19 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: 19th Cent Photos online I just received the following and many of you may be interested in it. The site looks very promising. OldFox .............................................................................. .......................... The Denver Public Library has opened its site, http://gowest.coalliance.org which contains more than 50,000 historic photographs online. An additional 45,000 images will be added by the summer of 2000. The database contains images of Native Americans, pioneers, gold miners, railroads, and small town life -- much of it 19th century material. Raymond Clark Project Director 303-640-6322 rclark@denver.lib.co.us ------------------------------ Date: 03 Feb 99 21:16:17 -0700 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil Thanks for the answers back. After reading the one about the mixing over the stove, my wife made a avery simple suggestion that makes me ashamed I didn't think of it. She said don't mix it over a stove, put it in a crock pot. If you're wife doesn't want you to use her good one, buy an old one at a garage sale. Definately much safer than a stove. Why didn't I think of that? Bless that woman if she saves someone from getting hurt. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:21:43 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 19th Cent Photos online Outstanding!! Thanks a million. Lanney Ratcliff, Texian - -----Original Message----- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com To: hist_text@xmission.com Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 10:08 PM Subject: MtMan-List: 19th Cent Photos online >I just received the following and many of you may be interested in it. = The >site looks very promising. > >OldFox >........................................................................= ...... >.......................... >The Denver Public Library has opened its site, > http://gowest.coalliance.org which contains more than 50,000 = historic > photographs online. An additional 45,000 images will be added by = the > summer of 2000. The database contains images of Native Americans, > pioneers, gold miners, railroads, and small town life -- much of = it > 19th century material. > > Raymond Clark > Project Director > 303-640-6322 > rclark@denver.lib.co.us > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:23:02 -0500 From: jlynch@bcm.tmc.edu Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #230 i saw a film once where a man called "zachary 'bass'" was left for dead on a fur venture in the 1820's by a "captain 'henry'". this may have somethin to do with it. the history channel has this story "man in the wilderness". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:08:08 -0800 From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #230 jlynch, This was loosely based on the Hugh Glass Saga. Mauled by a bear, left for dead, crawled to recovery. Read 'The Saga of Hugh Glass' by John Myers Myers ISBN # 0-8032-5834-8 Hardtack ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 05:51:34 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil Don, Years ago a friend here in Colorado (won't mention name, many know him), was cooking up a solution of linseed oil and beeswax mixture for a water sealer on his kitchen stove. His son was about 12 and studdered, couldn't say 10 words without studdering. Anyway we're loading ammo in the garage for the blackpowder cartrige shoot at Raton, the kid is in the kitchen, the mixture boils over. Suddenly the garage door opens and the kid is saying something about a fire, I can't figure what the heck he's saying. The boys looks behind him into the kitchen and comes out loud and clear "you damn mess is burning the frecking kitchen down", not one word was studdered. This mixture of linseed and beeswax really did a number on that kitchen, off course the amount of water we put on that fire didn't help matters either. Like you say be damn careful with heating in an open pot, even with a lid. Buck PS That kid is grown and married now and the shock treatment with boiling linseed didn't work he still stud-studd-studders ____________________________ - -----Original Message----- From: Phyllis and Don Keas To: History Text Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 9:15 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil >Thanks for the answers back. After reading the one about the mixing over >the stove, my wife made a avery simple suggestion that makes me ashamed I >didn't think of it. She said don't mix it over a stove, put it in a >crock pot. If you're wife doesn't want you to use her good one, buy an old >one at a garage sale. Definately much safer than a stove. >Why didn't I think of that? Bless that woman if she saves someone from >getting hurt. > >DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:02:44 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil Barry Conner wrote: > Don, > > Years ago a friend here in Colorado (won't mention name, many know him), was > cooking up a solution of linseed oil and beeswax mixture for a water sealer > on his kitchen stove. ------------ > > This mixture of linseed and beeswax really did a number on that kitchen, off > course the amount of water we put on that fire didn't help matters either. > Like you say be damn careful with heating in an open pot, even with a lid. > > Buck Buck, Thanks for the story that drives home the point that this can be dangerous. I would recommend that if you wish to try this recipe that you do it outside, stay with it constantly, do not cover it with a lid so you can see what is going on in the pot and have a way to cover the pot if it flames up (the best way to put out the fire) and a way to safely remove the pot from the heat or the heat from the pot. As an afterthought (wish I had thought of this earlier) you probably can achieve the same results by doing things a little backward form what was originally proposed and make it a lot safer operation. It will take longer but you can dissolve the bee's wax in the thinner, then stir in the oil paint, baking soda (if you use it) and linseed oil into the thinner and bee's wax mix. This should allow the complete mix of all ingredients. If not, see above safety steps. Hope this helps, I remain...... YMOS Capt. Lahti' > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:08:13 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil Roger, We used this mixture for years on old canvas and other used items that have become worn and the fabric seemed porous, worked good to fill in the fine spaces in the weave, but would collect dirt fairly easy with the beeswax mixture, in warm weather could get a little greasey, winter a little stiff. But it still made the item serviceable and was still being used, as our forefathers would have done. Just part of using what you got and making do. Buck ________________ - -----Original Message----- From: Roger Lahti To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 11:07 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil > > >Barry Conner wrote: > >> Don, >> >> Years ago a friend here in Colorado (won't mention name, many know him), was >> cooking up a solution of linseed oil and beeswax mixture for a water sealer >> on his kitchen stove. ------------ >> >> This mixture of linseed and beeswax really did a number on that kitchen, off >> course the amount of water we put on that fire didn't help matters either. >> Like you say be damn careful with heating in an open pot, even with a lid. >> >> Buck > >Buck, > >Thanks for the story that drives home the point that this can be dangerous. I >would recommend that if you wish to try this recipe that you do it outside, stay >with it constantly, do not cover it with a lid so you can see what is going on >in the pot and have a way to cover the pot if it flames up (the best way to put >out the fire) and a way to safely remove the pot from the heat or the heat from >the pot. > >As an afterthought (wish I had thought of this earlier) you probably can achieve >the same results by doing things a little backward form what was originally >proposed and make it a lot safer operation. It will take longer but you can >dissolve the bee's wax in the thinner, then stir in the oil paint, baking soda >(if you use it) and linseed oil into the thinner and bee's wax mix. This should >allow the complete mix of all ingredients. If not, see above safety steps. Hope >this helps, I remain...... > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > >> > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:29:30 -0400 From: bspen@aye.net (Bob Spencer) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil >We used this mixture for years on old canvas and other used items that have >become worn and the fabric seemed porous, worked good to fill in the fine >spaces in the weave, but would collect dirt fairly easy with the beeswax >mixture, in warm weather could get a little greasey, winter a little stiff. I've waterproofed canvas using linseed oil, but never used beeswax in it. The formula I used was simply boiled linseed oil and iron oxide powder. Iron oxide comes in two forms, a yellow and a rust brown. Both are used in making pottery glazes, and can be had in bulk at pottery making shops. The iron oxide acts as the filler, fills the pores in the fabric, and is important in the process. I never heated the linseed oil, and don't quite understand why you guys are doing that. Boiling your own? I have a ground cloth which has given me excellent service for 8 years, has never leaked a drop in the hardest rain, and is still going strong. It is only now showing the first signs of becoming a little tacky. I've also used pure beeswax for waterproofing items like my haversack. That works very well, and is easy to do. That sack is 8 years old, has been carried many a mile, and has never needed to be re-treated. Beeswax used in that way tends to crack after a time, but it's a simple thing to hold the bag near the fire and let the wax melt and redistribute itself, healing all wounds. Beeswax certainly is much more stiff than dried linseed oil, especially in cold weather, but on items such as my haversack, that creates no problem. I would think it could on a groundcloth, even in low concentration. Bob Bob Spencer non illegitimi carborundum est ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:44:25 -0800 From: "Gail Carbiener" Subject: MtMan-List: Rifle: wooden stock Need to put some oil or other substance on the stock of an old flintlock rifle. Problem is it sits in a museum display where we have trouble with mice and bugs! Any suggestions on a "non-bug" "non-mouse" soultion for a dry stock? Gail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:48:06 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil Bob Spencer wrote: . I never heated the linseed oil, and don't quite understand why you guys are doing that. Boiling your own? Bob, No need to heat it unless you want to get some wax to melt in it but since you don't do that you have no need to heat it. The linseed oil I use comes already boiled. If I were using it straight, I would not heat it either. I might still thin it with Turpentine but that's my way. My ground cloth, made of muslin, was treated with linseed oil, bee's wax and oil paint (for color). It is not that stiff and has held up for about six seasons now. For such light fabric, it is holding up quit well and doesn't leak either. My knap sack and haversack are treated with just bee's wax like yours and both do a good job of keeping things inside dry. I would not treat them with linseed oil or paint as a buddy has because that would make them stiff. I guess we have had different experiences. I remain...... YMOS Capt. Lahti' > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:02:31 -0700 From: "landis" Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:57:36 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BE5078.9CB29740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hey guys, I'm terry's(mt.man)brother. he said you might be able to help me? I'm = looking for a rifle in the $500.00 range any info would help = thanks = adam - ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BE5078.9CB29740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hey guys,
I'm terry's(mt.man)brother. he said you might be = able to help=20 me? I'm looking for a rifle in the $500.00 range any info would=20 help
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           =20 thanks
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           =20 adam
- ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BE5078.9CB29740-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 20:07:51 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:57:36 -0800 - --------------E678DE82721275D307F31B63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit landis wrote: > hey guys,I'm terry's(mt.man)brother. he said you might be able to > help me? I'm looking for a rifle in the $500.00 range any info would > help > thanks > adam > Adam, > > Sorry to hear that. You have our simpathies. What did you have in > mind? I'm sure there are lots of ideas for good guns in that range but > you got to narrow it down some. Are you willing to build a kit? Style? > Flint? Caliber? I remain.... > > YMOS > Capt. lahti' - --------------E678DE82721275D307F31B63 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

landis wrote:

 hey guys,I'm terry's(mt.man)brother. he said you might be able to help me? I'm looking for a rifle in the $500.00 range any info would help                                                                                    thanks                                                                                    adam
Adam,

Sorry to hear that. You have our simpathies. <G> What did you have in mind? I'm sure there are lots of ideas for good guns in that range but you got to narrow it down some. Are you willing to build a kit? Style? Flint? Caliber? I remain....

YMOS
Capt. lahti'

  - --------------E678DE82721275D307F31B63-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:27:29 -0800 From: "landis" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:57:36 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01BE507C.C95DFF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Roger Lahti To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 8:09 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:57:36 -0800 =20 =20 =20 landis wrote:=20 hey guys,I'm terry's(mt.man)brother. he said you might be able = to help me? I'm looking for a rifle in the $500.00 range any info would = help = thanks = adam=20 Adam,=20 Sorry to hear that. You have our simpathies. What did you = have in mind? I'm sure there are lots of ideas for good guns in that = range but you got to narrow it down some. Are you willing to build a = kit? Style? Flint? Caliber? I remain....=20 YMOS=20 Capt. lahti' thanks for the sympathy, i deal wity it prett good now. .58cal = lock may not matter,prefer complete - ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01BE507C.C95DFF60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
To: = hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20 <hist_text@lists.xmission.com= >
Date:=20 Thursday, February 04, 1999 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: = MtMan-List:=20 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:57:36 -0800

 =20

landis wrote:=20

 hey=20 guys,I'm terry's(mt.man)brother. = he said you=20 might be able to help me? I'm looking for a rifle in the $500.00 = range=20 any info would help          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           =20 thanks          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           =20 adam
Adam,=20

Sorry to hear that. You have our simpathies. = <G>=20 What did you have in mind? I'm sure there are lots of ideas for = good=20 guns in that range but you got to narrow it down some. Are you = willing=20 to build a kit? Style? Flint? Caliber? I remain....=20

YMOS
Capt.=20 lahti'

  thanks for the sympathy, i deal = wity it=20 prett good now. .58cal lock may not matter,prefer=20 complete - ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01BE507C.C95DFF60-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:35:27 -0700 (MST) From: delis@aztec.asu.edu (BRUCE S. DE LIS) Subject: MtMan-List: Rifle Under $500.00 Check This Web-Site I think there were several Rifles For Sale http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb261741 B "hey guys, I'm terry's(mt.man)brother. he said you might be able to help me? I'm = looking for a rifle in the $500.00 range any info would help adam" - -- "The Price Of Freedom Is Not Free" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:51:43 -0600 From: "Glenn Darilek" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtn.men, they never got lost, just mighty confuse d for a while - -----Original Message----- From: Angela Gottfred >Interesting question about compasses. My impression is that in the Canadian >fur trade, 1774-1821, compasses were present but not common, and probably >mostly used by "gentlemen", i.e. clerks, factors, and wintering partners >I have many stories about Canadian fur traders getting lost, but I'm sure >there aren't any about Mountain Men, right guys? In the Canadian Rockies the compass points some 20 degrees east of true north. Could this explain why the compass was not trusted? Maybe this could explain why some Canadians got lost. Anyway, because the magnetic pole is in Canada, you can't blame your neighbors to the south. Surely they must have checked the compass against Polaris to realize this difference. This difference changes from year to year, but I guess it wasn't too much different during the fur trade era. Does your husband know? I know he is an accomplished celestial navigator. Iron Burner ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #231 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.