From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #416 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, December 1 1999 Volume 01 : Number 416 In this issue: -       MtMan-List: No Discussion -       Re: MtMan-List: Trap Discussion -       Re: MtMan-List: Trap Discussion -       MtMan-List: text search -       Re: MtMan-List: text search -       Re: MtMan-List: text search -       Re: MtMan-List: Trap Discussion -       Re: MtMan-List: Trap Discussion -       Re: MtMan-List: text search -       MtMan-List: AMM Western 2000 -       MtMan-List: TRAPS ??? -       MtMan-List: A week in the wilds of Idaho -       MtMan-List: Issac Rose?? -       Re: MtMan-List: A week in the wilds of Idaho -       MtMan-List: Richard (Beaver Dick) Leigh Trapper/Guide -       MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Trees -       Re: MtMan-List: A week in the wilds of Idaho -       MtMan-List: Branded Trees from Lewis and Clark Expedition -       Re: MtMan-List: text search -       Re: MtMan-List: Richard (Beaver Dick) Leigh Trapper/Guide -       Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Trees -       MtMan-List: Shoes -       Re: MtMan-List: Shoes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:14:24 -0800 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: MtMan-List: No Discussion Ok Folks, Let's get some discussion going. Do you really want to leave it up to Lanney, Dennis, and myself ? Pendleton - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:01:19 -0500 From: tom roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trap Discussion Nope. Let's talk traps. I note in Carl Russell's book that Victor traps dated back only to around 1886 but they are still (I think) making traps today. My questions: 1) Are there any current commercial trap makers who date back to our time period? I think the answer is no, except perhaps for the Newhouse evolution 2) Alternately, are there any current trap builders who supply a historically correct trap in the 3-4 lb range? 3) Is the present Newhouse #4 correct except for round pan? 4) In addition to the Russell book, is there a source which critiques the design of historical traps? 5) Any trappers out there care to comment from personal experience on trap design and what to avoid? 6) Do we agree that if one were able to acquire an original trap that it would be inappropriate to use it? 7) Is there some market (and supply) of original traps or are they all now in museums? Tom larry pendleton wrote: > Ok Folks, > Let's get some discussion going. Do you really want to leave it up to > Lanney, Dennis, and myself ? > Pendleton > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:09:14 -0600 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trap Discussion Traps are interesting in my opinion. As important an item as they were for the mountain men and the fur trade in general, very few folks know a lot about the subjects of how they were made, manufactured, and distributed during the time period. Other than Firearms Traps and Tools there is a book entitled The Steel Trap in America by Gerstel. This is the definitive book on traps. A competent blacksmith could make a reproduction of an original. The cost would likely make it prohibitive as far as using them goes. The North American Trap Collectors Association can give you info on collecting or researching traps and trapping. They are on the web. Talk to Tom Parr he is the boss. An original fur trade era hand forged beaver sized trap with a known makers name (Standish for example) in good condition is worth a $1000 or so. northwoods - -----Original Message----- From: tom roberts To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, November 29, 1999 10:00 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trap Discussion >Nope. > >Let's talk traps. I note in Carl Russell's book that Victor traps dated >back only to around 1886 but they are still (I think) making traps today. >My questions: > >1) Are there any current commercial trap makers who date back to our time >period? > I think the answer is no, except perhaps for the Newhouse evolution >2) Alternately, are there any current trap builders who supply a >historically correct trap in the 3-4 lb range? >3) Is the present Newhouse #4 correct except for round pan? >4) In addition to the Russell book, is there a source which critiques the >design of historical traps? >5) Any trappers out there care to comment from personal experience on trap >design and what to avoid? >6) Do we agree that if one were able to acquire an original trap that it >would be inappropriate to use it? >7) Is there some market (and supply) of original traps or are they all now >in museums? > >Tom > > >larry pendleton wrote: > >> Ok Folks, >> Let's get some discussion going. Do you really want to leave it up to >> Lanney, Dennis, and myself ? >> Pendleton >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 08:28:13 PST From: "Kevin Pitman" Subject: MtMan-List: text search Greetings to the list during this time of thanksgiving and holiday celebration. I am a high school history teacher, coach, and novice mountain man/plains indian reproductionist. Can anyone give me some advice on where I might find a copy of Newman's "Ceasars of the Wilderness: Company of Adventurers." I did a research paper several years ago on the Hudson's Bay Trading Company, and the multiple volume set was available in the college's library. I would like to add the set to my personal library. Mr. Conner, the posts that I have read lead me to believe that you have your own extensive library, so maybe I should direct this post to you or your "bon ami", Captain Lahti. Thank you for the information on the list, and the desire to make sure we never forget. YMOS, Kevin Pitman ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:52:32 -0500 From: "John L. Allen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: text search Kevin, Try www.bibliofind.com or www.BookFind.com These are two of the most comprehensive search engines for used and out-of-print books. If you can't turn up what you are looking for through either of these, it probably isn't available. John Dr. John L. Allen 21 Thomas Drive Storrs, CT 06268 860/487-1346 johnlallen@uconn.cted.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Pitman To: Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 11:28 AM Subject: MtMan-List: text search > Greetings to the list during this time of thanksgiving and holiday > celebration. I am a high school history teacher, coach, and novice mountain > man/plains indian reproductionist. Can anyone give me some advice on where I > might find a copy of Newman's "Ceasars of the Wilderness: Company of > Adventurers." I did a research paper several years ago on the Hudson's Bay > Trading Company, and the multiple volume set was available in the college's > library. I would like to add the set to my personal library. Mr. Conner, the > posts that I have read lead me to believe that you have your own extensive > library, so maybe I should direct this post to you or your "bon ami", > Captain Lahti. > > Thank you for the information on the list, and the desire to make sure we > never forget. > > YMOS, > > Kevin Pitman > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 11:09:56 PST From: "Kevin Pitman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: text search Thank you. I will go try those next. Kevin >From: "John L. Allen" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: text search >Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:52:32 -0500 > >Kevin, > >Try www.bibliofind.com or www.BookFind.com > >These are two of the most comprehensive search engines for used and >out-of-print books. If you can't turn up what you are looking for through >either ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:20:55 -0700 From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trap Discussion At 11:01 PM 11/29/1999 -0500, you wrote: >Let's talk traps. >2) Alternately, are there any current trap builders who supply a >historically correct trap in the 3-4 lb range? Rod Douglas in Kalispell, MT makes some very accurate traps in this range, and up to 5 pounds >3) Is the present Newhouse #4 correct except for round pan? From what little I've seen the #4 1/2 is more accurate. I have an old #4 newhouse, and it's a little small. >5) Any trappers out there care to comment from personal experience on trap >design and what to avoid? I've been using Bridger #5's and having good luck. They are just slightly smaller than a 4 1/2 Newhouse. I've used Victor #4's, but I think the jaw spread is too small and they're definately too light for traditional/primitive sets. Would probably work ok with a drowning wire, but that's not how it was done. >6) Do we agree that if one were able to acquire an original trap that it >would be inappropriate to use it? Absolutely. First of all it's a relic, Second, there's a chance you'll lose it, Third, somebody could steal an old one. >7) Is there some market (and supply) of original traps or are they all now >in museums? > There's Rod Douglas in MT. Arrowhead Forge (I think) makes traps. There's also a feller in Salt Lake City area that's making some good one that are period. Allen Hall in Fort Hall country >Tom > > >larry pendleton wrote: > >> Ok Folks, >> Let's get some discussion going. Do you really want to leave it up to >> Lanney, Dennis, and myself ? >> Pendleton >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 30 Nov 1999 11:29:52 -0800 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trap Discussion > >Let's talk traps. I note in Carl Russell's book that Victor traps dated > >back only to around 1886 but they are still (I think) making traps today. > >My questions: > >2) Alternately, are there any current trap builders who supply a historically correct trap in the 3-4 lb range? "Arrow Head Forge" has a good looking period trap available. Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html _________________________________ Aux Ailments de Pays! Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 30 Nov 1999 11:36:05 -0800 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: text search On Tue, 30 November 1999, "John L. Allen" wrote: > > Kevin, > > Try www.bibliofind.com or www.BookFind.com > > These are two of the most comprehensive search engines for used and > out-of-print books. If you can't turn up what you are looking for through > either of these, it probably isn't available. > > John > > Dr. John L. Allen > 21 Thomas Drive > Storrs, CT 06268 > 860/487-1346 > johnlallen@uconn.cted.net > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kevin Pitman > > I might find a copy of Newman's "Ceasars of the Wilderness: Company of > > Adventurers." I did a research paper several years ago on the Hudson's Bay > > Trading Company, and the multiple volume set was available in the > college's > > library. I would like to add the set to my personal library. Mr. Conner, > the > > posts that I have read lead me to believe that you have your own extensive > > library, so maybe I should direct this post to you or your "bon ami", > > Captain Lahti. > > > > Thank you for the information on the list, and the desire to make sure we never forget. > > > > YMOS, > > Kevin Pitman > > > > ______________________________________________________ Thanks Doc, You beat me to it, was going to suggest the same two URL's. www.bibliofind.com or www.BookFind.com Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html _________________________________ Aux Ailments de Pays! Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:08:58 +0000 From: R Lahti Subject: MtMan-List: AMM Western 2000 Brothers, Brother Tom Roberts asked me on Sunday if I could pass on the dates for the AMM Western next summer. The Booshway, Larry "Taos" Velasques has set the dates as July 1 through July 8. All other aspects of the event seem to be coming together. We are waiting final approval from the USFS but no glitches appear to be in the offing. If all goes as planned the site will be just north of Boville, Idaho which is east of Moscow, Idaho. There is a level trail of about a quarter to 1/2 mile into the site. It is a beautifull meadow area with rolling heavily timbered hills surrounding. There is a small spring creek to cross and a slightly larger one to camp on. Though small it does harbor large crawdads and a few small trout. Plenty fire wood, water, flat, and shade! Good horse graze and lots of room to roam. I'm looking forward to it! Hope you all are too. More later as it becomes available. I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:33:35 -0800 (PST) From: George Noe Subject: MtMan-List: TRAPS ??? E-Bay Under "Traps" I saw some old traps. Don't know if anyone might be interested or not. Will need to sort through to find them. Your most .... George ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:46:57 +0000 From: R Lahti Subject: MtMan-List: A week in the wilds of Idaho Dear Friends, Been up here in the Idaho woods hunting elk for a week now. Looked like I would have to leave Sunday evening since most everyone else was pulling out but a buddy from Lewiston has come up and will stay until Monday afternoon. It's been a good week. Started back on Nov. 21 and though I didn't get a shot at an elk all week, I sure saw my share of game. Plenty of whitetail deer including some BIG bucks. Plenty of elk just none going less than Mac 1 when they went by. Saw lots of rough grouse and even got one. Big mistake shooting it with my .62 flinter though. Well the legs were good anyway. I've been giving some thought to carrying my Tulle over my shoulder loaded with shot since the other day when I kicked up a half dozen grouse. We have a moose cow and calf that hang around the area and we run into her once in a while. You have to give her a wide berth since moose cows are extremely protective of their young, unlike elk and deer. It's been frosty some mornings which makes the sneaking difficult. The ground crunches under foot and the elk hear better, I think than even the deer. I suspect they can pinpoint where you are in the woods by your slightest sound. If they get pushed they just pick a route around you and you never see them. We've had several days of snow. Makes for beautiful hunting conditions but even the snow squeaks a bit when you walk in it if it isn't powder dry or wet as a sponge. Towards the end of the week it started to rain. Within a day most of the snow is gone and there is nothing left except in the shadows of the open areas and of course clumps on the trees. Hunting in the rain isn't much fun but it sure is productive. With snow in the trees coming down in "plops" from time to time it's even better. You have to protect your lock area and make sure your muzzle is pointed down. When it was snowing earlier in the week most of us just used a wool sock with most of the foot cut off and slid it up over the stock to the lock area. That seems to do a great job of keeping the prime dry in the pan. I check my prime periodically just to make sure but have never found it wet. With the rain most fellas carried their guns in a roomy wool gun scabbard. I just carried mine with the lock and butt under the skirts of my Great Coat and kept it horizontal. Seemed to work. Many of the guys emptied their guns each evening but I see no percentage in that. I cleaned it after I shot the grouse and reloaded but left it loaded from then on. The deer go brain dead in the rainy weather with snow plopping out of the trees and a steady drip of water from high up in the branches. They stay out in the open more. Late in the week on a morning hunt up along a swampy meadow valley I walked up on several deer while it was raining a constant drizzle. I had gone a couple hundred yds from the starting point when I saw the first buck. He was a nice 5 point (one side) and was meandering across the meadow about 75 yds from me just browsing for tidbits here and there. He ended up walking right up to Louie on the other side of the creek. Another couple hundred yds and a nice doe leapt across the trail about 40' in front of me. Another 100 yds and I see a log laying out in the meadow about 75 yds away and thing I don't remember ever seeing that log there before. Moving closer I find that it is really another very large white tail buck. Just dark enough to not be able to count points but his size indicates he is every bit as big as the first one. While I'm watching him doze in the rain from behind my screen of trees a small yearling comes out of the far side and wanders past him and right towards me. She turns just before entering the trees and ends up passing across the trail about 30 ft from where I am standing. She looks at me but isn't concerned and walks on. I move forward a few yds and try to figure out how to get past the buck in the meadow without spooking him and while I'm standing there the little doe walks out of the trees behind me and past me again but maybe only 30 feet from me. She looks at me again but doesn't see danger. I don't move a muscle. I finally make the buck nervous and he gets up and walks away. I move on up the trail and in another couple hundred yds come to another deer bedded down the the meadow. This one might be big enough to take (only does are legal in this particular area right now). I move closer and finally see the skinny little forks coming up by his ears. I move on a ways and find another small doe bedded down in the open. The small buck comes up to her and snorts at her to get her to leave. But no that's a big doe! I'm not in a position to take a shot. She huffs at me and bounds off into the brush only to walk back at me a couple times to repeat the process. She has seen or heard me and is trying to get me to reveal myself. She bounds off for the final time and the rain is all that remains. I've seen elk almost every day now and plenty of deer at times. One snowy day I even followed four big tom turkeys up the road back to camp. They finally spotted me about 50 yds from the truck and walked off into the timber. But the elk remain too wary and smart for me. I only see flashes of them as they crash off through the timber or as the one cow and calf in the open, walked around the corner in front of me one afternoon, only to dive off the hill too quickly for a shot. Jerry and Louie got into the elk on the other side of the swampy creek yesterday and this morning, with just Jerry and I left in camp, we are going to go back in there and see if the elk hung around. Jerry and I walk up the old logging road at Double 00 dark. We are walking as though there will be an elk just around every corner. Very slow and very quiet. We come to a game trail that cuts to the right thourh a pass in the ridge line. I go right into the dark timber and he goes on up the road to circle around to the north of the little valley we are headed for. There has been a lot of elk through here recently. Lots of tracks and fresh. It's over cast and cold and the ground is full of frost in places making it hard to walk quiet. I pick my way with care and think I am being as quiet as I ever have. Up ahead the timber thins and the ground is dropping away so I must be getting close to the head of the valley. The elk tracks I'm following move off to the right but I follow the trail to the left. I can see the valley opening up now. The wind is in my face. There's movement ahead. I see a small buck walk out of the small pines to the right. He doesn't seem to be aware I am there. I move forward with care a few more yards and loose sight of him for a bit until I come to another opening in the trees and now I can see out into the valley. There's the buck. No not a buck but a smallish elk. Do I want this animal? Well this is starting to get late in the season and I may not be able to come back next weekend. I move a bit to the left when her head is down feeding, to get to a better opening in the trees, and she still doesn't see me. I go down on one leg and use the left knee for a rest. She takes a step and turns almost sideways to me. It's 50 to 75 yds and I should be able to make the shot. My heart's pounding and I feel out of breath even though I haven't been working hard. The time has come. The gun comes up as the cock comes back. The site picture settles on her shoulder at the base of the neck. A squeeze of the trigger finger, a boom and obliterating white smoke. She's down in a heap. The Chambers "Mark Silver" .62 did it's job again. I stand and reload and see a second elk just beyond the one I just dropped. Where the hell is Jerry when I need him? By the time I've reloaded the other cow finally gets nervous and moves off. I walk up to my cow and it's not quit dead. I loose another ball into the back of the head and all is mercifully still. Then I take stock. This is not a smallish animal. It's got to be the biggest cow I've ever seen up close. Now the work begins. Jerry comes to the sounds of the shooting and I tell him about the other elk I saw including the three or four cows farther down the meadow that walked off as I came into the open. He goes hunting some more while I start making meat. As I'm busy down on my knees working up to my armpits in fat cow I glance up to see another cow come out of the timber down the meadow a couple hundred yds. She isn't scared cause I'm so low to the ground. I watch her for a while and then go back to my work. I thank The Great Spirit above again for the life this life will bring to me and my family. It's noon before we get the meat out to the road. Time to break camp and head down the Clearwater to the Snake and on to the Forks of the Columbia, Snake and Tapteal. It is good to be heading home. I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:12:27 PST From: "Chance Tiffie" Subject: MtMan-List: Issac Rose?? I'm thinking of purchasing a long since out of print book entitled "Four years in the Rocky Mountains, or the Adventures of Issac P. Rose." I was hoping someone on the list could provide me with a "book report," for lack of a better word. Cliff Tiffie Rt. 1 Box 82C Caddo, OK 74729 580-924-4187 - --------------------- Aux Ailments de Pays! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:18:44 -0700 From: tetontodd@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A week in the wilds of Idaho Capt, Mighty fine tale. Thanks for sharing and taking us along. I can almost picture you hunkered down in your shelter while it rains, and up to your elbows in elk. What a memory. Todd Glover - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:31:27 EST From: BoborJamie@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Richard (Beaver Dick) Leigh Trapper/Guide - --part1_0.841b028e.2575fe9f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry I forget the subject line the first time. (I'm new) - --part1_0.841b028e.2575fe9f_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: BoborJamie@aol.com From: BoborJamie@aol.com Full-name: BoborJamie Message-ID: <0.f131cd6c.2575c6ce@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:33:18 EST Subject: (no subject) To: hist_text@xmission.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Does anyone have any info on a trapper/guide named Richard "Beaver Dick" Leigh. He has a lake named after him near Yellowstone and he married a Shoshone Indian woman named Jenny, who also has a lake named for her. My grandmother always said that this couple was her grandparents or great-grandparents, but all information I can find says Jenny and their five children all died of pneumonia. He was married at Fort Hall, Idaho, Thanks Jamie - --part1_0.841b028e.2575fe9f_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:50:27 -0500 (EST) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Trees Any half-brothers in the camp know if those trees enscribed by the Corps of Discovery are still there? Would be a mighty powerful period rush to be there on Nov.24, 2005. Maybe the spirits of Clark and others could get permission from God The Great Spirit Father to briefly visit from the Eternal Blue Sky Land. Maybe 24-48 hours without food and water by all 3-4 weeks before would cause this to happen? (at same time asking Great Spirit Father in the name of His Only Son to hear our loud heart cries to Him). Big Medicine? - ----------------------------------- from Michigan Territory - ----------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:14:39 +0000 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A week in the wilds of Idaho tetontodd@juno.com wrote: > > Capt, > > Mighty fine tale. What a memory. Teton, Thats what we will have in all too few years. Memories. May yours be as good. I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:53:31 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: Branded Trees from Lewis and Clark Expedition According to the Fort Clatsop Archeological data, reference the branding and marking of trees..... "Examinations of trees in this vicinity in later years revealed no trace of the carvings." Regards Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders lnewbill@uidaho.edu : http://www.geocities.com/~lnewbill - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 10:01:44 +0000 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: text search Kevin Pitman wrote: Can anyone give me some advice on where I > might find a copy of Newman's "Ceasars of the Wilderness: Company of > Adventurers." Kevin, You might try this gentelman. He is "the buckskinner's source" out west for books. Jim Hayden 88360 Charly Lane Springfield, OR. 97478 541-746-1819 He will give it his best and may have it in stock. I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 12:07:18 -0700 From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Richard (Beaver Dick) Leigh Trapper/Guide At 11:31 PM 11/30/1999 EST, you wrote: > >Does anyone have any info on a trapper/guide named Richard "Beaver Dick" >Leigh. >He has a lake named after him near Yellowstone and he married a Shoshone >Indian woman named Jenny, who also has a lake named for her. My grandmother >always said that this couple was her grandparents or great-grandparents, but >all information I can find says Jenny and their five children all died of >pneumonia. He was married at Fort Hall, Idaho, Thanks Jamie > Beaver Dick lived primarily in the area now known as Rexburg, Idahol. There is a park on the Henry's Fork of the Snake River west of Rexburg call Beaver Dick park. He guided the Hayden expedition in Yellowstone park, and was pretty "colorful". Leigh Lake and Jenny Lake in Jackson's Hole are named for him and his Shoshoni wife, Jenny. Contact me privately if you want for more stuff. I live near this area. Allen Hall from Fort Hall country Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 1 Dec 1999 11:26:17 -0800 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Trees On Tue, 30 November 1999, JON MARINETTI wrote: > > Any half-brothers in the camp know if those trees enscribed by the Corps > of Discovery are still there? Would be a mighty powerful period rush to > be there on Nov.24, 2005. Maybe the spirits of Clark and others could > get permission from God The Great Spirit Father to briefly visit from > the Eternal Blue Sky Land. Maybe 24-48 hours without food and water by > all 3-4 weeks before would cause this to happen? (at same time asking > Great Spirit Father in the name of His Only Son to hear our loud heart > cries to Him). Big Medicine? > I read in an old Nat. Geo. years ago that the 'CCC' boys cut many of the older trees around this old site, general cleanup for fire prevention back in the 30's. Possibly some of the marked trees went then. Another government project with no reference to history or future purpose. I was at the ribbon cutting for Bent's Fort in 1972 (before the new fort was built). Our Governor at the time Dick Lamb he told several of us if it hadn't been for local farmers and some town folks protecting the 10-14 inch foundation walls, this fort's foot print would have been plowed under. He also said that the local historical society had been after our elected officials to do something for over 40 years, that would be the time of the 'CCC' start up. Some friends from Germany are amazed at how we as a country distroy or sell our heritage, guess they try to keep as much as possible of theirs. Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html _________________________________ Aux Ailments de Pays! Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 08:04:35 -0600 From: Farseer Subject: MtMan-List: Shoes Okay, I've read and seen a lot of references to moccasins for fur trade recreation. Which type? I've made some puckered vamp mocs, like Miller describes, but I've also seen folks wearing eastern center seams, and also hard soled (rawhide it looked like) mocs. Assuming it's about 1820, and I'm in St Joseph, or Robidaux if you prefer, What are the correct type of mocs? References would be great, as well as advice. At this point, I'm working on a second pair of pucker vamps out of buffalo for summer, and a pair out of sheepskin with the wool on for winter wear. I'd love to find a couple of square feet of hair on buffalo for the winter pair, but no luck so far. Todd (who freely admits to being a greenhorn and still don't have a spiffy name) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:00:12 +0000 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shoes Farseer wrote: > > Okay, I've read and seen a lot of references to moccasins for fur trade > recreation. Which type? Farseer, In the absence of noted scholars learned in this particular subject, I feel a degree of bravery and shall sally forth. I think you're on the right track with the puckered vamp moc's. I've made some puckered vamp mocs, like Miller > describes, but I've also seen folks wearing eastern center seams, and also > hard soled (rawhide it looked like) mocs. What you see pictured in Miller's paintings is probably more correctly what was being worn. Conversely, the styles commonly seen at rendezvous may or may not be historically correct. Assuming it's about 1820, and > I'm in St Joseph, or Robidaux if you prefer, What are the correct type of > mocs? References would be great, as well as advice. I can't give references but my opinion is that the Rocky Mt. Personage of the time wore the type of moc he either knew how to make or the type that he could get made for him by local manufacture. Considering that many of the practitioners in the mountains were French or French/Indian or even throw in a considerable number of eastern tribal members gone west there is no doubt on my part that most any eastern/Great Lakes/Canadian Shield style of moc was represented. I think most mocs were probably of the style you have made. That seems to be what is pictured by contemporary artists the most. It isn't any harder to draw or paint any other type of moc but that is what they drew and painted. That is why you see them. Simple center seams may have been made because they are easy to make but they have inherent design limits and the pucker toe/vamped moc lends it self to summer and winter designs much more readily. The side seam styles of the Columbia plateau indians were used too, but I think probably by the whites most in contact with themand then only if they were made by the local indian population. The hard sole plains indian moc may have been made tand used but I suspect it was not as commonly worn by whites as the pucker toe/vamp moc. Any of these styles are appropriate in any case and one should not feel limited to one style. At this point, I'm > working on a second pair of pucker vamps out of buffalo for summer, and a > pair out of sheepskin with the wool on for winter wear. I'd love to find > a couple of square feet of hair on buffalo for the winter pair, but no luck > so far. I have a pair of brain tanned winter mocs (pucker toe/vamps) that are lined with blanket socks and wool socks as the mountaineer was recorded as doing. They work fine on snowshoes and in cold weather. I too have thought to make a pair of some sheep pelts I have but have never gotten around to doing it. I'm not sure it is necessary and I do camp in very cold weather. Anyway I hope this has been reassuring if not completely helpful. These are my opinions and are worth what it cost you. Winter well. I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #416 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.